Re: basic debian question
I wrote: How do you download the whole binary tree? In RH I simply downloaded the iso-images and then applied all subsequent upgrades. Debian seems to function differently; when I browsed an ftp mirror, I couldn't find the actual packages. Tzafrir Cohen: (ISO images are of the installation, not of system) Does that mean that I can only install packages while connected to the net? Do you have /tmp on a different partition? Actually, no. I symlinked /tmp and /usr/tmp to /var/tmp which is on a different partition. /opt and /usr/local are the same: not part of the formal system, and intended for extra packages. Although debian places some a few config files in /usr/local But quite some flamers are upset at RH for putting everything in /usr/bin. In fact, a few months ago mosfet went beserk complaining about `ls /usr/bin|wc -l` returing a number greater than 1500. So I wondered whether debian guys were doing it differently. Arie Folger -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CLOSE_WAIT
I think you missed my later email stating that my first one was a mistake. I confused CLOSE_WAIT and TIME_WAIT. The later is unavoidable, the former is. When you ask an application to shut down a socket, it sends a FIN out, and enters FIN_WAIT1. When that FIN is acknoledged, the socket moves to FIN_WAIT2. The socket is now half closed. You are not allowed to send any more data on it, but the other side is. When the other sides decides to shut the socket down as well, it will send a FIN. Your side will acknoledge that, and enter the TIME_WAIT state for a period of time. This is necessary in case the ACK was lost on its way back. The other side will retransmit the FIN, and our side needs to remeber what the !#$*(! it is all about, so the ACK can be retransmitted. After a certain amount of time TCP assumes that no retransmits are going to come, and removes the socket altogether. Switching to the other side, the connection is established. When a FIN arrives, the connection is marked CLOSE_WAIT and the FIN is acknoledged. When the application on that side chooses to close, TCP sends a FIN and switches to LAST_ACK. When the FIN is ACKed, the socket is immediatly closed, and is no longer seen (which is, of course, utter bullshit. It is still around for a little while as CLOSED, but that's not relevant). If you are accomulating CLOSE_WAIT sockets, the best bet (as both oded and lordsoth already told you) is that the side that sees that the socket has finished sending stuff neglects to shut the socket down properly. As I have said in my previous mail, you can either use shutdown and then close, or immediatly use close (the former is better). Michael Sternberg wrote: Everybody on the Net keeps telling me that they are nessessary. I have a client/server utility, both sides are at my control. It works for some two-three weeks and then computer flooded with CLOSE_WAITS, I can not open more sockets and have to restart application (or reboot computer). I'm using every recommended techniques from Stevens book - shutdown, linger, SO_REUSEADDR etc... without any success. Can it be some kernel bug ? I think the problem is that you are, indeed, using shutdown, but not closing the socket. Let me venture a wild guess here. You have ~1024 CLOSE_WAITs when the problem happens? The problem has nothing to do with either kernel nor TCP/IP. The problem is that your application has a limit on how many open file descriptors it has. When that limit is reached, no new file descriptors will open, and you will probably get similar symptoms to what you have. Make sure that you call close for each socket when you are done with it. I can never reproduce this situation manually but it happens quite frequently. And it is very frustrating. There are plenty Linux Internet applications (Apache for example) that supposed to work 24/7/365. How do they handle this problem ? They don't leak resources. Can you be more detailed ? You mean, I have to get from 'netstat' port that socket in CLOSE_WAIT state is listening to, somehow guess TCP sequence numbers and send ACK+FIN there ? I was thinking of a RST, but basically, yes. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CLOSE_WAIT
Everybody on the Net keeps telling me that they are nessessary. I have a client/server utility, both sides are at my control. It works for some two-three weeks and then computer flooded with CLOSE_WAITS, I can not open more sockets and have to restart application (or reboot computer). I'm using every recommended techniques from Stevens book - shutdown, linger, SO_REUSEADDR etc... without any success. Can it be some kernel bug ? I can never reproduce this situation manually but it happens quite frequently. And it is very frustrating. There are plenty Linux Internet applications (Apache for example) that supposed to work 24/7/365. How do they handle this problem ? CLOSE_WAITs are essential for the whole TCP scheme. It lets you keep a half-open connection where you can still send data. However, if for some reason you don't want half-open connections, you should handle this in your code. What I was saying earlier was that for example, read() returns 0 when a FIN is received (i.e: moving to the CLOSE_WAIT state). What you should basically try to do is to find out where in your code read() receives 0. If you have a wrapper function for it, that's trivial. Breaking when it returns 0 with gdb and looking at the backtrace, one method I can think of... If you'd like, maybe you can post some code if it's alright with others It's most likely NOT a kernel bug since other servers seem to work just fine. What platform are you developing on ? I can tell you that a server I wrote under RH 6.2 works just fine, and has an uptime of more than a year. Anyways, if you'd like to verify that read() receives 0, check out Unix network programming on page 774: Recall with a TCP socket that the receipt of a FIN causes read to return 0... Can you be more detailed ? You mean, I have to get from 'netstat' port that socket in CLOSE_WAIT state is listening to, somehow guess TCP sequence numbers and send ACK+FIN there ? Guess ? no. You might be able to insert a RST if you know the sequence numbers (which you can find with tcpdump), but then you'll have to stop other packets and insert your own. It's quite a hassle and difficult to manage I believe. Regards, Eli There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Looking for jobs
Though it's a pretty stiff penalty for Iftach... yes, It is. +--- Please ignore the following Crap: | V This e-mail message has been sent by Elbit Systems Ltd. and is for the use of the intended recipients only. The message may contain privileged or confidential information . If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited, and you are requested to delete the e-mail and any attachments and notify the sender immediately. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CLOSE_WAIT
Everybody on the Net keeps telling me that they are nessessary. I have a client/server utility, both sides are at my control. It works for some two-three weeks and then computer flooded with CLOSE_WAITS, I can not open more sockets and have to restart application (or reboot computer). I'm using every recommended techniques from Stevens book - shutdown, linger, SO_REUSEADDR etc... without any success. Can it be some kernel bug ? I can never reproduce this situation manually but it happens quite frequently. And it is very frustrating. There are plenty Linux Internet applications (Apache for example) that supposed to work 24/7/365. How do they handle this problem ? I saw this once and it turned out to be a faulty web load balancer. Could it be that you have some firewall or similar in the way? COuld it be that someone is either attacking your server, or using your IP in a spoof/blind attack and you get the fault outs? Can you provide a network sniff of traffic when this happens? Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Money talks, bullshit walks and GNU awks. -- Shachar Sun Shemesh, debt collector for the GNU/Yakuza = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
KDE location [was Re: basic debian question]
On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Arie Folger wrote: Tzafrir Cohen wrote: /opt and /usr/local are the same: not part of the formal system, and intended for extra packages. Although debian places some a few config files in /usr/local But quite some flamers are upset at RH for putting everything in /usr/bin. In fact, a few months ago mosfet went beserk complaining about `ls /usr/bin|wc -l` returing a number greater than 1500. So I wondered whether debian guys were doing it differently. When you put all of KDE under /opt , you have to remember that you have config files not only under /etc, but also in /opt/kde[23]/share/config Debian (also redhat) finally moved those to /etc/kde[23] Actually, it seems an odd complaint to me: anything under /opt is for me not part of the system. Redhat (and also mandrake and debian, which also put KDE under /usr) mearly say that there is one version of KDE that comes with the system, and is part of the system. It makes upgrades slightly more complicated, but then again, if you use RPMs, you shouldn't go around deleting an old installation. There are better ways. On my solaris at the CS faculty my PATH includes (not limited to): /usr/bin , /usr/local/bin , /opt/sfw/bin , /opt/sfw/gnome/bin , /opt/sfw/kde/bin And I don't like it better. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CLOSE_WAIT
On 02 Sep 2002 11:07:55 +0300 Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I saw this once and it turned out to be a faulty web load balancer. Could it be that you have some firewall or similar in the way? COuld it be that someone is either attacking your server, or using your IP in a spoof/blind attack and you get the fault outs? Can you provide a network sniff of traffic when this happens? No, its a local network. There is no firewalls between client and server. Actually, they connected to the same HUB. No attacks were initiated. Hmm... Probably my fault - failed to close socket somewhere. Although I don't think so.. I still did not got answer from anybody on how to create this situation. I mean how to write a faulty client/server application suite that will leave sockets in CLOSE_WAIT state... = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: Re: KDE location [was Re: basic debian question]
--- Start of forwarded message --- From: voguemaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tzafrir Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Jurassic Park Subject: Fwd: Re: KDE location [was Re: basic debian question] Date: 02/09/02 11:29:35 What really annoys me about /usr/bin is that RH stuffed GCC's binaries there. A developer wishing to upgrade to a newer compiler version must use the package, because GCC binaries and libraries are all over the place!! If you compile a new version on your own, you can put it anywhere, and in a centralized location, including header files. It's annoying as hell Besides, where are the variables that tell the system which compiler version to use ??? it's so annoying!! Eli 02/09/02 10:05:29, Tzafrir Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Arie Folger wrote: Tzafrir Cohen wrote: /opt and /usr/local are the same: not part of the formal system, and intended for extra packages. Although debian places some a few config files in /usr/local But quite some flamers are upset at RH for putting everything in /usr/bin. In fact, a few months ago mosfet went beserk complaining about `ls /usr/bin|wc -l` returing a number greater than 1500. So I wondered whether debian guys were doing it differently. When you put all of KDE under /opt , you have to remember that you have config files not only under /etc, but also in /opt/kde[23]/share/config Debian (also redhat) finally moved those to /etc/kde[23] Actually, it seems an odd complaint to me: anything under /opt is for me not part of the system. Redhat (and also mandrake and debian, which also put KDE under /usr) mearly say that there is one version of KDE that comes with the system, and is part of the system. It makes upgrades slightly more complicated, but then again, if you use RPMs, you shouldn't go around deleting an old installation. There are better ways. On my solaris at the CS faculty my PATH includes (not limited to): /usr/bin , /usr/local/bin , /opt/sfw/bin , /opt/sfw/gnome/bin , /opt/sfw/kde/bin And I don't like it better. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits End of forwarded message There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CLOSE_WAIT
On the client, do everything as usual, using close to shut down the socket. On the server, when read returns zero, go back to handling the next connection. Don't call close or shutdown on the socket. If you call shutdown but not close, you should get the same behaviour with CLOSED instead of CLOSE_WAIT. Shachar Michael Sternberg wrote: On 02 Sep 2002 11:07:55 +0300 Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I saw this once and it turned out to be a faulty web load balancer. Could it be that you have some firewall or similar in the way? COuld it be that someone is either attacking your server, or using your IP in a spoof/blind attack and you get the fault outs? Can you provide a network sniff of traffic when this happens? No, its a local network. There is no firewalls between client and server. Actually, they connected to the same HUB. No attacks were initiated. Hmm... Probably my fault - failed to close socket somewhere. Although I don't think so.. I still did not got answer from anybody on how to create this situation. I mean how to write a faulty client/server application suite that will leave sockets in CLOSE_WAIT state... = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CLOSE_WAIT
On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 11:16:06AM +0300, Michael Sternberg wrote: On 02 Sep 2002 11:07:55 +0300 Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still did not got answer from anybody on how to create this situation. I mean how to write a faulty client/server application suite that will leave sockets in CLOSE_WAIT state... socket() bind() listen() while(1) accept() fork() with no close () with no close() telnet to your port, press '^]' and you'll have CLOSE_WAIT untill you ^C your server. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unix Administration, | http://www.unixadmin.co.il locally and remotely. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Planning, installation,| Phone: 972-3-6201373 support upgrades.| Location: Unrestricted = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: Re: KDE location [was Re: basic debian question]
--- Start of forwarded message --- From: voguemaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tzafrir Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Jurassic Park Subject: Fwd: Re: KDE location [was Re: basic debian question] Date: 02/09/02 11:56:17 But they are spread all over the place because it is easy to follow them: rpm -ql gcc Even if there is a package which you can use to track them all, it's still annoying. At least with RPMs you know where the files are (as opposed to Windows for example :p), and you have to know how RH structured the use of GCC in the system. It really is a hassle, so I deleted my newly compiler GCC3 hehe Luckily I got away without needing to really use it... Install it in /usr/local, and set CC I've put it in /usr/local2 hehehe... Are you telling me that setting CC and the inclue dir (forgot the exact name of the variable) is all I need ? sounds almost too easy.. Eli There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits End of forwarded message There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KDE location [was Re: basic debian question]
gcc has its own built-in include and libs parameters (set at compile time), right? I don't know about that. When you configure gcc before compilation you usually set the installation location, library dirs if you want'em changed, other compile options etc.. I don't know enough because I've only built gcc recently and I wasn't sure how to do it, it was my first time :) Another reason was that I didn't want the new gcc to break my system. Who knows what changes it can do. That's why I'm interested in finding out how exactly one should go about to replace gcc altogether, and how to keep two seperate versions.. Eli There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: basic debian question
I wrote: How do you download the whole binary tree? In RH I simply downloaded the iso-images and then applied all subsequent upgrades. Debian seems to function differently; when I browsed an ftp mirror, I couldn't find the actual packages. Tzafrir Cohen: (ISO images are of the installation, not of system) Does that mean that I can only install packages while connected to the net? If you insists on the ISOs search for jidgo. You can search for it in www.debian.org. URLs were also posted here a few weeks ago. I believe you could find them in the list archive. Obviously you can also download the debs (RPMs equivalent for a Debian system) while on the net and installed them afterwards. However Debian integrated installing and updating a system directly from the net very nicely. Even with a modest net connectivity you might want to skip all the old methods and go directly to the net one. Do you have /tmp on a different partition? Actually, no. I symlinked /tmp and /usr/tmp to /var/tmp which is on a different partition. /opt and /usr/local are the same: not part of the formal system, and intended for extra packages. Although debian places some a few config files in /usr/local But quite some flamers are upset at RH for putting everything in /usr/bin. In fact, a few months ago mosfet went beserk complaining about `ls /usr/bin|wc -l` returing a number greater than 1500. So I wondered whether debian guys were doing it differently. 1403 for my desktop which lacks KDE/GNOME desktop environment. Arie Folger -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Looking for jobs
Are we the intended recipient ? intended recipient is stricly the person who is listed in the To: field. Then why not send messages To: All Humanity [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? I think this covers most who will read the message, through email or however the archives are viewed. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KDE location [was Re: basic debian question]
On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 12:16:28PM +0200, voguemaster wrote: gcc has its own built-in include and libs parameters (set at compile time), right? I don't know about that. When you configure gcc before compilation you usually set the installation location, library dirs if you want'em changed, other compile options etc.. I don't know enough because I've only built gcc recently and I wasn't sure how to do it, it was my first time :) Another reason was that I didn't want the new gcc to break my system. Who knows what changes it can do. That's why I'm interested in finding out how exactly one should go about to replace gcc altogether, and how to keep two seperate versions.. inside the top gcc source directory, mkdir somedir cd somedir ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc make install Then, put /usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc/bin in the beginning of your path. For c++ programs you will also want to put /usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc/lib in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH. I hold 3 versions this way, soon 4 (3.2). If you want to set a default, link to /usr/local/bin. Eli There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KDE location [was Re: basic debian question]
inside the top gcc source directory, mkdir somedir cd somedir ../configure --prefix=/usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc make install Then, put /usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc/bin in the beginning of your path. For c++ programs you will also want to put /usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc/lib in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH. I hold 3 versions this way, soon 4 (3.2). If you want to set a default, link to /usr/local/bin. Great, thanks!!! What about header files (C/C++), anything special to do ? Like, maybe set the paths for gcc to find those headers ? Eli There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KDE location [was Re: basic debian question]
On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 12:53:53PM +0300, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 12:16:28PM +0200, voguemaster wrote: gcc has its own built-in include and libs parameters (set at compile time), right? I don't know about that. When you configure gcc before compilation you usually set the installation location, library dirs if you want'em changed, other compile options etc.. I don't know enough because I've only built gcc recently and I wasn't sure how to do it, it was my first time :) Another reason was that I didn't want the new gcc to break my system. Who knows what changes it can do. That's why I'm interested in finding out how exactly one should go about to replace gcc altogether, and how to keep two seperate versions.. inside the top gcc source directory, mkdir somedir cd somedir ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc Sorry, this should be ../configure (probably some MTA dropped one dot, in my sent folder there are two). make install Then, put /usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc/bin in the beginning of your path. For c++ programs you will also want to put /usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc/lib in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH. I hold 3 versions this way, soon 4 (3.2). If you want to set a default, link to /usr/local/bin. Eli There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KDE location [was Re: basic debian question]
On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 12:57:55PM +0200, voguemaster wrote: inside the top gcc source directory, mkdir somedir cd somedir ../configure --prefix=/usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc make install Then, put /usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc/bin in the beginning of your path. For c++ programs you will also want to put /usr/local/some/directory/for/this/gcc/lib in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH. I hold 3 versions this way, soon 4 (3.2). If you want to set a default, link to /usr/local/bin. Great, thanks!!! What about header files (C/C++), anything special to do ? Like, maybe set the paths for gcc to find those headers ? None that I had to. gcc finds them by itself if compiled with --prefix (as opposed, say, to unpacking a binary rpm with --prefix or --relocate, which I find dangerous to do for things like gcc). And, BTW, ignore the previous mail (about ../configure) - apparently only locally-delivered mail dropped a dot. Eli There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Looking for jobs
On Monday 02 September 2002 12:45, Cedar Cox wrote: Are we the intended recipient ? intended recipient is stricly the person who is listed in the To: field. Then why not send messages To: All Humanity [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? I think this covers most who will read the message, through email or however the archives are viewed. this may cover the legal issue, yes. tal. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Looking for jobs
On Mon, 2002-09-02 at 12:45, Cedar Cox wrote: Are we the intended recipient ? intended recipient is stricly the person who is listed in the To: field. Then why not send messages To: All Humanity [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? I think this covers most who will read the message, through email or however the archives are viewed. Cedar, I know for a fact that some members of the list will find being called 'humans' down right insluting :-) Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Money talks, bullshit walks and GNU awks. -- Shachar Sun Shemesh, debt collector for the GNU/Yakuza = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Looking for jobs
On 2 Sep 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: IANAL, but IIRC US courts have come to a bizarre conclusion that people do not expect the same level of privacy in their electronic communications (such as email) as in their conventional communications (such as regular mail). This is one of the foundations of your employer owns all your personal email if sent from/to the office, privacy issues notwithstanding. I believe this will override Rabbi Gershom if the push comes to shove... ;-) This is a matter of who owns the resources. It's no different than posing limitations on private phone calls on the office phones, or on company time. When an employer provides an employee with an email account due to the fact that this person is an employee, then this email account is intended to be used for work, and belongs to the employer. Whether a specific employer tolerates the use of that account for non-work communications as well, depends on the specific employer and on the employer-employee relationships. Do you use your employer's snail mail address for personal correspondence? It's not a privacy issue. It's an issue of ownership of a given resource. -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Looking for jobs
Uri Bruck wrote: This is a matter of who owns the resources. It's no different than posing limitations on private phone calls on the office phones, or on company time. When an employer provides an employee with an email account due to the fact that this person is an employee, then this email account is intended to be used for work, and belongs to the employer. Originaly it did not. In the Electronic Communications Prvacy Act (ECPA) of 1988, the wiretaping laws were specificly exempted for communications providers. This was intended to be phone companies, what became ISPs, etc. The courts had a different idea and ruled that it included anyone who pays the bill. So in the U.S. your employer can legaly tap your phone, read your email, etc, in fact mine does. It's a well stated company policy. Geoff. -- The information transmitted is intended to be ignored by the person or entity in front of whom it appeared and may contain useless and/or misleading material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other abuse of, or taking of any action of any kind because of this misinformation by persons, animals, aliens, or cosmic entities other than the unintended recipient is bad karma. If you received this error, please send you paycheck to the sender and delete everything on the hard drive of your computer. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Looking for jobs
On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: So in the U.S. your employer can legaly tap your phone, read your email, etc, in fact mine does. It's a well stated company policy. Surely you don't mean your home phone. The wage-slavery system can only go so far. -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
internet, internal ftp dependency
Title: Message Hi! This is the setup: machine 1: windo*s XP 2 NICs, 1) Cable Internet 2) Local Network (nat-ing #1) machine 2: RedHat 7.3, xinetd.d modified to enable telnet wu-ftpd..., 2 NICs 1) Local Network (using dhcp) 2) manually configured and not connected to anything (in nead future will replace the xp's Cable Internet). for some weird reason- If I disconnect from the internet (on the XP box) I cannot ftp into the Linux box... NOT EVEN from the tty1 (ftp localhost). My guess is that there's something with DNS or something like that - but its still VERY weird! HELP! Tal.
Re: internet, internal ftp dependency
Hmm, i just gave a reply similar to this one in Tapuz's forum. Look, wu-ftp is problematic. It insists on performing DNS queries for the client at login time, but fails to act whenever it isn't needed. I'm assuming your linux box has it's DNS servers configured in it's resolv.conf file. See, when you disconnect those servers can't be reached, and the DNS queries block wu-ftpd for a while (wait a few minutes, it should then respond). Using netstat at this point *should* show you an established connection to the DNS server with the target port being domain, although this is NOT the case in reality... Anyways, in order to see if this is the problem, comment out all the DNS servers in your resolv.conf file when you're not connected to the internet, then try to login to wu-ftp. Also, try to set the proper search order in the nsswitch.conf file, like so: hosts: hosts [NOTFOUND=return] It could help. If this is indeed the reason, you have two choices (that I can see): 1. Install a DNS server internally to handle those times where you are off the internet (and place that as the first server in your resolv.conf) 2. Use a script to replace the resolv.conf file with a backup when you disconnect. This is the easiest solution I believe... You can have the script do the opposite when you reconnect. Maybe you can do that automatically somehow, who knows... Hope this helps, Eli 02/09/02 14:46:45, Tal Achituv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:46:45 +0200 From: Tal Achituv [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:internet, internal ftp dependency To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi! This is the setup: machine 1: windo*s XP 2 NICs, 1) Cable Internet 2) Local Network (nat-ing #1) machine 2: RedHat 7.3, xinetd.d modified to enable telnet wu-ftpd..., 2 NICs 1) Local Network (using dhcp) 2) manually configured and not connected to anything (in nead future will replace the xp's Cable Internet). for some weird reason - If I disconnect from the internet (on the XP box) I cannot ftp into the Linux box... NOT EVEN from the tty1 (ftp localhost). My guess is that there's something with DNS or something like that - but its still VERY weird! HELP! Tal. There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: internet, internal ftp dependency
try running tcpdump to see the dns requests erez. Tal Achituv wrote: Hi! This is the setup: machine 1: windo*s XP 2 NICs, 1) Cable Internet 2) Local Network (nat-ing #1) machine 2: RedHat 7.3, xinetd.d modified to enable telnet wu-ftpd..., 2 NICs 1) Local Network (using dhcp) 2) manually configured and not connected to anything (in nead future will replace the xp's Cable Internet). for some weird reason - If I disconnect from the internet (on the XP box) I cannot ftp into the Linux box... NOT EVEN from the tty1 (ftp localhost). My guess is that there's something with DNS or something like that - but its still VERY weird! HELP! Tal. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: internet, internal ftp dependency
On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, voguemaster wrote: 1. Install a DNS server internally to handle those times where you are off the internet (and place that as the first server in your resolv.conf) 2. Use a script to replace the resolv.conf file with a backup when you disconnect. This is the easiest solution I believe... You can have the script do the opposite when you reconnect. Maybe you can do that automatically somehow, who knows... 3. Manually (or by scripts) create a hosts file (/etc/hosts) with the addresses of all the relevant internal machines Should be enough for a two-computers network -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BiDi directionality control for Mozilla
Hi, I don't like the idea of RLE..PDF to force paragraph direction, and it is WRONG, the Unicode BiDi Algorithm is so that puttinjg a RLE at the beginning does not set the paragraph direction to right to left, because the RLE and LRE marks are not strong characters, so the only and logical way to do this is to put a RLM. Also many implementations does not support explicit marks yet. behdad On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Tzafrir Cohen wrote: What about text messages? Is it possible to force directionality by beggning a document/paragraph with RLM/LRM ? Is it wise? Probably not work. This works only with editors that use the BiDi algorithm to select direction. Usually what would happen, though, is that most apps would force LTR direction on the paragraph. The way to deal with that is to add a RLE at the begining (and if you feel generous, a PDF at the end). What about the beginning of the document? I am not familiar with any references in the Unicode standard (or elsewhere) to a document direction. The Unicode standard does specify, rather explicitely, that each paragraph is rendered on it's own. It is not impossible that some program or another does regard that, but I will have to see it to comment. Actually I try to always begin my Hebrew messages with a Hebrew greeting to create such an effect. And do you know of a program that is affected. One more thing to note is that RLM, LRM, LRE, PDF and all of the rest don't exist in any codepage that I know. They only exist in Unicode code pages (UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-7, etc. etc. etc). RLM and LRM are also part of cp1255 . News to me. What's their value? Are RLE and PDF also there? Shachar Ivrix-discuss list. See http://ivrix.org.il. To unsubscribe, please send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with only the following line in the message body (NOT SUBJECT!): unsubscribe ivrix-discuss -- Behdad Esfahbod 10 Shahrivar 1381, 2002 Sep 1 http://behdad.org/ [Finger for Geek Code] #define is_persian_leap(y) y)-474)%2820+2820)%2820*31%12831) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ip-masq on an SMP kernel
Title: Message Hi there, Thanks for all the answers on wu-ftpd, (btw: why would it try to resolve localhost!!!??? damn) a new and 'better' question: I am running R.H. 7.3 with 2.4.18-3smp, to my knowledge iptables is not compatible with this kernel, (right?) what are the implication of that on ip-masquerading? can anyone point me to a good how-to that takes into consideration an SMP kernel? thanks. Tal.
Re: ip-masq on an SMP kernel
usually I'd do it my self and spawn you with the answer, but I'm feeling lazy today so: http://www.google.com On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 04:09:52PM +0200, Tal Achituv wrote: Hi there, Thanks for all the answers on wu-ftpd, (btw: why would it try to resolve localhost!!!??? damn) a new and 'better' question: I am running R.H. 7.3 with 2.4.18-3smp, to my knowledge iptables is not compatible with this kernel, (right?) what are the implication of that on ip-masquerading? can anyone point me to a good how-to that takes into consideration an SMP kernel? thanks. Tal. -- Unix Administration, | http://www.unixadmin.co.il locally and remotely. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Planning, installation,| Phone: 972-3-6201373 support upgrades.| Location: Unrestricted = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: internet, internal ftp dependency
hat automatically somehow, who knows... 3. Manually (or by scripts) create a hosts file (/etc/hosts) with the addresses of all the relevant internal machines Should be enough for a two-computers network You know, I've tried that when I had the same problem. For some reason it doesn't help... :-\ Eli There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ip-masq on an SMP kernel
On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Tal Achituv wrote: Hi there, Thanks for all the answers on wu-ftpd, (btw: why would it try to resolve localhost!!!??? damn) localhost should be in /etc/hosts a new and 'better' question: I am running R.H. 7.3 with 2.4.18-3smp, to my knowledge iptables is not compatible with this kernel, (right?) Why wouldn't it have iptables support? Is it mentioned somewhere (as a problem) in RH's docs? what are the implication of that on ip-masquerading? can anyone point me to a good how-to that takes into consideration an SMP kernel? htp://netfilter.samba.org/ See the HOWTOs there. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
kab + dbms?
Hi, I have a set of flat files which once upon a time were an access database. Once I migrated to Linux, I slowly turned it into a mysql database, and did elementary database management using kmysql. Kmysql is no longer maintained, IIRC (last update in January 2001), and its form feature was not powerful enough for me. Result is that in this one area I have not been able to get as much juice out of open source as I had with windoze. Now I have been thinking for a while of using kab (kde's addressbook), but since it is kind of xml based, I will lose the advantages of a dbms. Questions: * is it possible to use kab as a frontend to a dbms? * are there mechanism floating out there in cyberspace to facilitate migrating from a dbms to kab AND BACK? I started using a dbms for my addressbook as an exercise to learn database design and later sql, but by now I like the more poserful features. I have about 700 contacts in that database, with numerous data items for some of the people, items I would like to be able to sort on, query, etc. Thanks, Arie Folger -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: basic debian question
On Monday 02 September 2002 05:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you insists on the ISOs search for jidgo. You can search for it in www.debian.org. URLs were also posted here a few weeks ago. I believe you could find them in the list archive. Here it is, thanks: http://www.uk.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/ Obviously you can also download the debs (RPMs equivalent for a Debian system) while on the net and installed them afterwards. However Debian integrated installing and updating a system directly from the net very nicely. Even with a modest net connectivity you might want to skip all the old methods and go directly to the net one. Where can I find a mirror? I drilled down ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/debian... and couldn't find actual debs. Arie Folger -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Aligning Several HTML Forms in a table
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote: Because I want all of them aligned. Something like: [Entry1][Button1] [Entry2][Button2] [Entry3][Button3] [Entry4][Button4] Why use XHTML ? I want the HTML to be standards-compliant. Off the top of my head I can suggest two things: 1. Placement. You'd need to define styles for that, but you should be able to define an exact placement for each element 2. Define a width in pixels for each cell. It should give you a pretty god alignment. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
question about a gateway, fax..
Hi, It looks like my old Pentium 350 is going to die soon (the system turns on and off the hard drive every few hours and it's not the power cables) so I'm thinking about buying some very-cheap replacement machine.. I thought about buying one of those no-name OEM boards with the slowest processor available, minimum RAM, and finish with it, but I have a small problem.. I have an ISA Fax Modem inside which I thought originally to use as a fax gateway. There are of course those winmodem today with Linux drivers, but none of them (as far as I know) support Fax sending/receiving with their Linux driver. A hardware based PCI modem will cost about $100 - which is WAY too much for me. Any suggestions from people? Thanks, Hetz To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: question about a gateway, fax..
...I thought about buying one of those no-name OEM boards with the slowest processor available, minimum RAM... ...an ISA Fax Modem inside which I thought originally to use as a fax gateway... Any suggestions from people? A) wouldn't a 486 be good enough as a Linux fax server? (I guess your problem is there are no ISA slots on today's boards) B) you could buy a used P-II board (or a complete machine) for real cheap C) perhaps it's a hard-drive failure and not a mo-bo problem? D) if it is a mo-bo problem, maybe an ISA IDE controller would solve the problem disable the on-board one? (I have some I was going to throw away - let me know if you need it) (P.S. try disabling the primary IDE controller and using ONLY the secondary (irq 15)) E) If its only a fax server perhaps you could run some diskette / cd distro that loads up to a ram drive.. (How much ram do you have there?)? I'll let you know if I think of anything else... These are just the ideas that popped up now. Tal. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: question about a gateway, fax..
A) wouldn't a 486 be good enough as a Linux fax server? (I guess your problem is there are no ISA slots on today's boards) Yes, but 486 got more chances if being broken, really depends on your luck (I had to replace four 486 boards few years ago in a period of 8 months) B) you could buy a used P-II board (or a complete machine) for real cheap Anyone sells one? C) perhaps it's a hard-drive failure and not a mo-bo problem? No, 3 hard drives, all same problems, power supply replaced 3 times. D) if it is a mo-bo problem, maybe an ISA IDE controller would solve the problem disable the on-board one? (I have some I was going to throw away - let me know if you need it) (P.S. try disabling the primary IDE controller and using ONLY the secondary (irq 15)) Ok, I'll think about it. E) If its only a fax server perhaps you could run some diskette / cd distro that loads up to a ram drive.. (How much ram do you have there?)? 128. diskette/cd distro won't help as it's also my web and mail server. I'll let you know if I think of anything else... These are just the ideas that popped up now. Those cheap boards today (like from VIA etc) are really attractive, it's the DAMN Linux driver that doesn't support the fax stuff :( Hetz To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: question about a gateway, fax..
...an ISA Fax Modem inside which I thought originally to use as a fax gateway... Any suggestions from people? I think a real good solution to all of these sort of problems would be to use an external modem... I think I can find an external modem somewhere under all this junk... Tal. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: basic debian question
Where can I find a mirror? I drilled down ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/debian... and couldn't find actual debs. Arie Folger For a deb with g as the first letter of its name, say galeon, you might try ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/debian/pool/main/g/galeon However if you know what the prefix of the deb package name it could be easier to start at http://packages.debian.org. -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: basic debian question
On Tue, 3 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where can I find a mirror? I drilled down ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/debian... and couldn't find actual debs. Arie Folger For a deb with g as the first letter of its name, say galeon, you might try ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/debian/pool/main/g/galeon However if you know what the prefix of the deb package name it could be easier to start at http://packages.debian.org. But then again, galeon needs a couple of libraries. There is no point downloading the whole pool. It includes a couple of gigs of packages (10? 15? 20?): It holds packages for all the debian branches. It also holds all the sources. Why do you want to download the debs? Do you know exactly which ones you need? -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: question about a gateway, fax..
On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 01:04:22AM +0300, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
A) wouldn't a 486 be good enough as a Linux fax server?
(I guess your problem is there are no ISA slots on today's boards)
Yes, but 486 got more chances if being broken, really depends on your luck (I
had to replace four 486 boards few years ago in a period of 8 months)
B) you could buy a used P-II board (or a complete machine) for real
cheap
Anyone sells one?
Have you looked at plonter bargain corner ('Pinat Hameziot' or
whatever they call it)? Not sure if they got there a P-II and how
cheap it will be but perhaps they do.
I am quite sure they are also selling there new 486 boards. IIRC you
can get one for 17 NIS, and they are saying it is new. Yet I believe
that it is a bare board only, no processor or ram.
What about those Internet fax servers? I mean those accounts where
you can get/send fax via the net? I hardly looked at these services and
I don't remember what exactly do they offer and what are the terms of
use but maybe it suits you.
Are you willing to pay for 28.8 external modem? How much?
C) perhaps it's a hard-drive failure and not a mo-bo problem?
No, 3 hard drives, all same problems, power supply replaced 3 times.
D) if it is a mo-bo problem, maybe an ISA IDE controller would solve the
problem disable the on-board one? (I have some I was going to throw away
- let me know if you need it) (P.S. try disabling the primary IDE
controller and using ONLY the secondary (irq 15))
Ok, I'll think about it.
E) If its only a fax server perhaps you could run some diskette / cd
distro that loads up to a ram drive.. (How much ram do you have there?)?
128. diskette/cd distro won't help as it's also my web and mail server.
I'll let you know if I think of anything else...
These are just the ideas that popped up now.
Those cheap boards today (like from VIA etc) are really attractive, it's the
DAMN Linux driver that doesn't support the fax stuff :(
Hetz
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--
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Re: basic debian question
On Monday 02 September 2002 19:08, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: There is no point downloading the whole pool. It includes a couple of gigs of packages (10? 15? 20?): It holds packages for all the debian branches. It also holds all the sources. Why do you want to download the debs? Do you know exactly which ones you need? I want to install it on my laptop which is not always on the net, and sometimes I want an additional package, which in the case of RH merely means plopping in one, two or three cds to solve the dependency issues, but I have it anytime I want. (happens when compiling something that suddenly needs a library I never thought of installing, etc. I don't have enough space on my drive to install everything. Only 12GB and want to do video editing as well, so I want as much /tmp as possible) If this works well and I like debian, I would like to install it on a desktop which has only a 56k dial up connection. My laptop can at least get effective 10mbit/sec at work; not so from home. Arie Folger -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
