Re: Wondering about free software.
Hi all, On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 10:36:31PM +, Diego Iastrubni wrote: On Tuesday 23 April 2002 05:40, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: If it is indeed a DOS program (wasn't hashavshevet ported to windows ever?), you can also try dosemu. It is more or less stagnated in the recent years, but works very well most of the time (that is, usually mush better than a Command Prompt (VDM) in any windows version). you wish... Well, I am sorry for being so pretentious. It isn't. It's different. While I did play with it a bit many years ago (5-6?), these days it's used on my computer (by my mom, not me) only for a single application, QText, which I will describe in the end. But I will still address some of your problems. 1) freedos has still a lot of holes. or else you will need an msdos 6.22, dr dos 7.03 is good though. Or a legal Win9x. I personally still use OpenDOS 7.01, from the days it belonged to caldera. Works quite well. But I do have expectations for FreeDOS. 2) freecom eats memory, like meafter 4 hours of fast. Sorry, I never tried it. 3) dosemu (I think), dies when I use pkzip to zip a spcecific file (about 150kb) Sounds very weird. Maybe FreeDOS dies? Did you try others? In any case (I know this is ignoring a real problem), why would you want to use it if you have zip/unzip under Linux? 4) I could not set up the mouse under console, and in X when I press the button, the programs thinks that the mouse has moves to 1,1. when I unpress it it goes back to the original location. Sounds to me like a protocol configuration error. What does your $_mouse = line says, and what mouse do you have? QText doesn't use a mouse, so under X it works almost like an xterm - you have copypaste with the mouse - very comfortable to me. 5) in console I have problems with the cursor. 6) could not setup the graphics un console. linux gets stucked. When I stopped playing with it, graphics support was in the middle of development. I thought it would stabilize by now, apparently it didn't. give me a larger list for command prompt under win98. My private problem was running things like QText (of which version is still available for free (as in beer) from ftp.cs.huji.ac.il, I think) under NT 4 (and had the same problem under W2K, didn't try XP). I simply couldn't convince the DOS box to use a hebrew font, no matter what I tried. The closest I came was running it full screen and running vgahe.com under it, which worked as long as you didn't revert it back to a window. I heard from someone it should be possible, with heavy tweaking (registry, system.ini, win.ini, renaming of font files, etc.), but never managed to do it myself. Under dosemu, I simply created a dexe that uses a dos hebrew font (some are available from ivrix), maps a drive to the user's home dir, and runs qtext. Works like a charm for many years. This, BTW, is the reason I reply: The not-so-good (YMMV) hebrew support of NT, which in specific applications was much better in Linux for many years, is on-topic. And only recently there are native Linux alternatives for people that used QText 10 years ago. Maybe in a few months I will be able to convince my mom to switch. She didn't like LyX. Maybe abiword will soon be beter. I hope XP is better. NT 4 was a nightmare. Even if it is possible, I can't find a sane reason why, of all applications, the DOS box refused to let you choose among more than 2-3 fonts. - diego -- FROM THE DESK OF Dorothy Gale Auntie Em: Hate you. Hate Kansas. Taking the dog. Dorothy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Wondering about free software.
you can give the software itself for free if you like (good gimmick!), but what about installation and ongoing support? business software always needs guidance, support, installation and upgrades. charge for it. Windows is the exact example of software that doesn't come with support, and even though it wasn't open-sourced, it was very easy to (illegally) copy. People didn't even feel they were missing something. Makes you think for a minute, doesn't it? Isaac (Itzik) Aaron Quality Bytes TEL: +972-3-952 3175 FAX: +972-3-952 3176 BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Aaron;Isaac (Itzik) FN:Isaac (Itzik) Aaron ORG:Quality Bytes Software LTD TITLE:Head of Development TEL;WORK;VOICE:+972 (3) 952 3175 TEL;CELL;VOICE:+972 (53) 33 22 14 TEL;WORK;FAX:+972 (3) 952 3176 ADR;WORK:;;10 Moshe Levi st.;Rishon Lezziyon;;;Israel LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:10 Moshe Levi st.=0D=0ARishon Lezziyon=0D=0AIsrael URL: URL:http://www.q-bytes.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20010814T082349Z END:VCARD
RE: Wondering about free software.
If I were him and I wanted to write some open source applications for living, then I would have been in a big problem. What makes you sure that if he writes for a company an open source program and sells it - that I (or anyone else) will take the sources and sell it to their competitors for 1/10th of the original author? nothing. you can give the software itself for free if you like (good gimmick!), but what about installation and ongoing support? business software always needs guidance, support, installation and upgrades. charge for it. of course it will be less lucritive than proprietary software, but you gain another thing - the ability to incroperate already written open source in your program, and the ability to have people upgrading your code once it's out there. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Wondering about free software.
If by emulators you mean vmware for hashavshevet i think you are right and its an overkill since its a dos progie. maybe, wine(=free) will suffice at that matter. try it and tell us. * - * - * Tzahi Fadida [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax (+1 Outside the US) 240-597-3213 * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Amir Hardon Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Wondering about free software. Shalom! My father, asked to me upgrade all the computers in his office. He has a small LAN with 3 workstations and a server. I thought that now, after KDE3 is released, and GNOME2 is about to be released, it may be a good time to make his computers free software based... BUT... Many of the programs he needs does not have an open source alternatives, These are programs developed by israeli companies(Such as Hashavshevet). I guess they will run with emulators, but if using these closed source programs anyway, I prefer to use their native platform(Windows). I am now thinking to develop a program that will offer a good alternative to these programs... But what will I get from it? The only reason for someone to develop such programs is to sale them... No small office will pay a programmer to write special programs for it's use... So now I'm beginning to think that a world of open source will miss many programs... -Amir. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Wondering about free software.
I am now thinking to develop a program that will offer a good alternative to these programs... But what will I get from it? The only reason for someone to develop such programs is to sale them... No small office will pay a programmer to write special programs for it's use... but imagine what will happen if you write a good opensource program like that. if it will be good and competitive, pretty soon you will have customers wanting to install it. you can charge them for it, you can charge them for documentation, for installation and for support. the fact that it will be open source won't mean it can't be big business. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wondering about free software.
On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 04:14:40PM +0300, Amir Hardon wrote: Shalom! My father, asked to me upgrade all the computers in his office. He has a small LAN with 3 workstations and a server. I thought that now, after KDE3 is released, and GNOME2 is about to be released, it may be a good time to make his computers free software based... BUT... Many of the programs he needs does not have an open source alternatives, These are programs developed by israeli companies(Such as Hashavshevet). I guess they will run with emulators, but if using these closed source programs anyway, I prefer to use their native platform(Windows). I am now thinking to develop a program that will offer a good alternative to these programs... But what will I get from it? Respect. The only reason for someone to develop such programs is to sale them... Not always. No small office will pay a programmer to write special programs for it's use... Per-heaps you will be surprised to hear but some do. So now I'm beginning to think that a world of open source will miss many programs... That is why we are here ;-) -Amir. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- a href=http://eg-site.tripod.com;Eliran/a I didn't get a toy train like the other kids, I got a toy subway instead; you couldn't see anything but every now and then you'd hear this rumbling noise go by. -- Stephen Wright = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wondering about free software.
Shalom!
My father, asked to me upgrade all the computers in his office.
He has a small LAN with 3 workstations and a server.
I thought that now, after KDE3 is released, and GNOME2 is about to be
released,
it may be a good time to make his computers free software based...
BUT...
Many of the programs he needs does not have an open source alternatives,
These are programs developed by israeli companies(Such as Hashavshevet).
I guess they will run with emulators, but if using these closed source
programs anyway, I prefer to use their native platform(Windows).
I am now thinking to develop a program that will offer a good alternative to
these programs...
But what will I get from it? The only reason for someone to develop such
programs is to sale them...
No small office will pay a programmer to write special programs for it's
use...
I believe that for Hashavshevet clones there is another major
problem, which is the fact the original is accepted by the income tax
authority as a valid mean to manage your business records. I guess that
no clone will be accepted by them until it will be well tested and
supported.
A Chicken and an egg problem?
What will a firm that write such a Linux clone benefit from that clone?
If Linux will gets highly popular then the firms that will be first in
the market might be able to compete or somehow cooperate with the
giants that are likely to come over. Now with {KDE,GNOME} it looks like
there are better chances then ever to get popular so ...
Sound to me like many other technology development decisions: high
risk, uncertainty about the market behavior, depends on many factors
with high uncertainty, can be done but the bottom line is unknown.
So now I'm beginning to think that a world of open source will miss many
programs...
-Amir.
The open source market might have its emphasizes differently then the
close source one: more competitive market due to the fact that the raw
materials are open, more concentration on quality, support and products
integration, a more urgent need for productivity. But this still does
not lead me to the above statement.
And beside, maybe an attempt to have such a programs running on top of
Linux but still not be open source will be, in business terms, more
successful?
--
Shaul Karl
email: shaulka(replace with the at - @ - character)bezeqint.net
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Re: Wondering about free software.
Amir, Use the right tool for the right job. If windows fits them more then linux - then so be it, leave them with windows running. Don't take the approach of moving from windows to Linux because it's free. take it if it solves a problem you want to solve. period. (IMHO of course) On Monday 22 April 2002 16:14, Amir Hardon wrote: Shalom! My father, asked to me upgrade all the computers in his office. He has a small LAN with 3 workstations and a server. I thought that now, after KDE3 is released, and GNOME2 is about to be released, it may be a good time to make his computers free software based... BUT... Many of the programs he needs does not have an open source alternatives, These are programs developed by israeli companies(Such as Hashavshevet). I guess they will run with emulators, but if using these closed source programs anyway, I prefer to use their native platform(Windows). It depends, actually. If it's a DOS based program you might want (just for the kick) to run it with DOSemu. I am now thinking to develop a program that will offer a good alternative to these programs... But what will I get from it? The only reason for someone to develop such programs is to sale them... No small office will pay a programmer to write special programs for it's use... Welcome to the post-bubble days. Open source programs - as they stand alone, won't make you much money if anything (and please - don't give me the redhat example - go look at their revenues statement and see how they juggle the words to say that they make profit, while they're actually loosing quite much) - unless it's tied with some (in IBM case - it's the hardware, and with many others - it's the service contract or closed source components - e.g. Sistina, Qclusters, etc...) So now I'm beginning to think that a world of open source will miss many programs... Then go ahead and write a customized version of closed source applications. You can use QT for example to write for multi platform and sell it for Linux or for WIndows. Warning: QT license is pretty expensive. Good luck, Hetz = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wondering about free software.
On Monday 22 April 2002 19:53, Tzahi Fadida wrote: If by emulators you mean vmware for hashavshevet i think you are right and its an overkill since its a dos progie. maybe, wine(=free) will suffice at that matter. try it and tell us. If Hashvshevet is a DOS based - then dosemu should run it without many problems (you still need to do some tricks with the hebrew fonts). Thanks, Hetz = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wondering about free software.
but imagine what will happen if you write a good opensource program like that. if it will be good and competitive, pretty soon you will have customers wanting to install it. you can charge them for it, you can charge them for documentation, for installation and for support. the fact that it will be open source won't mean it can't be big business. /me smacks Dvir gently ;) Hello! we're POST the bubble-days. Remember companies like Eazel who tried to do these things? where are they today? If I were him and I wanted to write some open source applications for living, then I would have been in a big problem. What makes you sure that if he writes for a company an open source program and sells it - that I (or anyone else) will take the sources and sell it to their competitors for 1/10th of the original author? nothing. Hetz = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wondering about free software.
Then go ahead and write a customized version of closed source applications. You can use QT for example to write for multi platform and sell it for Linux or for WIndows. Warning: QT license is pretty expensive. Good luck, Hetz Isn't QT a free (free beer and free speech) software? Can you write a few lines about how KDE interacts with QT and about their license? If GNOME is like KDE, what is the QT equivalent for GNOME? -- Shaul Karl email: shaulka(replace with the at - @ - character)bezeqint.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wondering about free software.
Isn't QT a free (free beer and free speech) software? Can you write a few lines about how KDE interacts with QT and about their license? If GNOME is like KDE, what is the QT equivalent for GNOME? QT is licensed under a dual license: GPL - as we all know (and love?) QPL - You can write your apps, but if you want to distribute them without source code - then you'll have to pay Trolltech for a developer license (something like $1,500 for a Unix+Linux+Windows+Mac OS license - you get them all + docs + support).. The GPL clause was added due to licnese incompatibility between KDE which is partially LGPL and other parts under GPL and they're were illegally linked to a QPL'd version of QT. It was later fixed. KDE Uses QT very heavily (and being used by Trolltech - they use it for their own machines, a good sales point to approaching potential clients, and the KDE developers use test it all the time - but if you want to develop KDE itself using the CVS sources - you may want to use KDE's own version of QT - called qt-copy which got more patches and fixes then the official releases of QT from Trolltech, since it takes time for trolltech to integrate and test the patches sent from the KDE developers upstream.. As for QT equivalence to GNOME, I can only guess, since I don't use GNOME at all (only 2 apps - XMMS, xchat). QT is giving some services to KDE like Database access (Oracle, IBM's DB/2, MySQL, PostgreSQL and the other databases), XDND protocol support, Motif/Lesstiff support, Netscape plugins support, bidi, anti-aliasing, embedded version of QT and other services - all in 1 package and you got a back of a company who builds it, with support, sales, full documentations, full multiplatform support (Unix, all unices, Mac OS X, Win32) - all under 1 roof.. I'm sure GNOME got most of those parts (not sure about the databases plugins) - like GTK 2.0, Pango, etc - but on GNOME it's with the open source way - which means if you have to ask something urgently or request a bug fix - someone might help/answer you, or if you're out of luck - then good luck with fixing it yourself or contacting Ximian for support (not sure if they do support at all). = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wondering about free software.
Hi, On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 06:53:25PM +0200, Tzahi Fadida wrote: If by emulators you mean vmware for hashavshevet i think you are right and its an overkill since its a dos progie. maybe, wine(=free) will suffice at that matter. try it and tell us. If it is indeed a DOS program (wasn't hashavshevet ported to windows ever?), you can also try dosemu. It is more or less stagnated in the recent years, but works very well most of the time (that is, usually mush better than a Command Prompt (VDM) in any windows version). * - * - * Tzahi Fadida [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax (+1 Outside the US) 240-597-3213 * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Amir Hardon Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Wondering about free software. Shalom! My father, asked to me upgrade all the computers in his office. He has a small LAN with 3 workstations and a server. I thought that now, after KDE3 is released, and GNOME2 is about to be released, it may be a good time to make his computers free software based... BUT... Many of the programs he needs does not have an open source alternatives, These are programs developed by israeli companies(Such as Hashavshevet). I guess they will run with emulators, but if using these closed source programs anyway, I prefer to use their native platform(Windows). I am now thinking to develop a program that will offer a good alternative to these programs... But what will I get from it? The only reason for someone to develop such programs is to sale them... No small office will pay a programmer to write special programs for it's use... So now I'm beginning to think that a world of open source will miss many programs... -Amir. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
