Re: Distirbuitions
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:06:22 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: % Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % % [distribution and window manager preferences] % % % I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's% % cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. % % I'd be interested in the XFCE version 4 stuff. % % otay, here's my latest desktop: % http://linux-sxs.org/~netllama/xfce4.png Hmm. It just stalls while loading. So much for XFCE being fast :) ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:31:19 -0700 begin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 08:37:36 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % On 12/31/02 20:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: % Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % % [distribution and window manager preferences] % % % I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's% % cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. % % I'd be interested in the XFCE version 4 stuff. % % Well, my box at work is running yesterday's CVS, so that will have to % wait til Thursday for the screenshots. Until then, here are a bunch % that someone else created: % % http://members.home.nl/jbhuijsmans/screenshots/ Thanks, Llama. XFCE 4 looks nice. Lately, I've been using FVWM2. I prefer mwm to fvwm XFCE4 works like a champ, but ... The window manager does not do session management, and there's no session manager plugin yet. For you types who ever shutdown, that's no big deal, but it's a bummer for me to have to restart and resize each app everytime I startup groan And I _hate_ session managers -- that's why I dumped XFCE for Blackbox. Every XFCE upgrade was a nightmare because session manglement was default ON regardless of my previous setting for it. I have a couple of apps (xconsole and xdaliclock) that run in the XDM root window and transfer to the users window on login. With session manglement, there's one more xdaliclock running each login. After a user has about 200 xdaliclocks down in the corner, the system starts to get real sluggish. Ciao, David A. Bandel - -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. -- Nemesis Racing Team motto -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+E55l3uVcotqGMQcRAhVgAKCnkUpYdOBnazPOkk56/Y/5aN5SZQCeKlsA ebjfP0XM87VGtrIzg2Awvyo= =ATiq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
Feigning erudition, David A. Bandel wrote: % % And I _hate_ session managers -- that's why I dumped XFCE for Blackbox. % Every XFCE upgrade was a nightmare because session manglement was default % ON regardless of my previous setting for it. I have a couple of apps % (xconsole and xdaliclock) that run in the XDM root window and transfer to % the users window on login. With session manglement, there's one more % xdaliclock running each login. After a user has about 200 xdaliclocks % down in the corner, the system starts to get real sluggish. No! Really? ;-) I had a similar problem with xearth, so I hacked up a little script that would kill it if it's running before starting it again. This is no longer a problem with FVWM, but I still use the script and invoke it when the window manager starts or restarts. Kurt -- Yeah, but you're taking the universe out of context. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: [distribution and window manager preferences] % I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's % cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. I'd be interested in the XFCE version 4 stuff. otay, here's my latest desktop: http://linux-sxs.org/~netllama/xfce4.png -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, David A. Bandel wrote: And I _hate_ session managers -- that's why I dumped XFCE for Blackbox. Every XFCE upgrade was a nightmare because session manglement was default ON regardless of my previous setting for it. I have a couple of apps (xconsole and xdaliclock) that run in the XDM root window and transfer to the users window on login. With session manglement, there's one more xdaliclock running each login. After a user has about 200 xdaliclocks down in the corner, the system starts to get real sluggish. Something had to be quite broken on your XFCE setup if that was occuring. That never occurs on my systems. -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:06:22 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: % Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % % [distribution and window manager preferences] % % % I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's % % cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. % % I'd be interested in the XFCE version 4 stuff. % % otay, here's my latest desktop: % http://linux-sxs.org/~netllama/xfce4.png Hmm. It just stalls while loading. Same here :( Bye!!! Federico Voges Socio gerente Intrasoft Malabia 2137 14 A (1425) Buenos Aires Argentina Te/Fax: 54-11-4833-5182 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.intrasoft.com.ar PGP Public Key Fingerprint: A536 4595 EB6F D197 FBC1 5C3A 145C 2516 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. iQA/AwUBPhRWRBRcJRaVKt4XEQJhVACg3AJsb+bKQVKrERrd1YieSd6ZXc0AoJMo 2xQCpQ5J41iWEBKrwASAX08j =Q1jq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: % Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % % [distribution and window manager preferences] % % % I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's % % cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. % % I'd be interested in the XFCE version 4 stuff. % % otay, here's my latest desktop: % http://linux-sxs.org/~netllama/xfce4.png Hmm. It just stalls while loading. Works now. *shrug* -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] % Hmm. It just stalls while loading. % % Works now. *shrug* Go figger. Kurt -- I have discovered the art of deceiving diplomats. I tell them the truth and they never believe me. -- Camillo Di Cavour ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:21:33 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:35:40 -0500 (EST) begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed forth: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, David A. Bandel wrote: And I _hate_ session managers -- that's why I dumped XFCE for Blackbox. Every XFCE upgrade was a nightmare because session manglement was default ON regardless of my previous setting for it. I have a couple of apps(xconsole and xdaliclock) that run in the XDM root window and transfer to the users window on login. With session manglement, there's one more xdaliclock running each login. After a user has about 200 xdaliclocks down in the corner, the system starts to get real sluggish. Something had to be quite broken on your XFCE setup if that was occuring. That never occurs on my systems. And you have xdaliclock running on the root XDM window that isn't terminated when a user logs in? What happens is this app transfers to the user's window, but then is saved by the session manager which also restarts it on the next login (now there's two). Next login xdaliclock also transfers, but session manager starts two more (now there's three) -- and so on. Granted, most folks don't do this, they terminate whatever is on the XDM root window when the user logs in. I don't. xconsole doesn't have this problem because it automagically terminates (or just won't start) extra copies of itself. Not so with most apps (xdaliclock included). David is right. One of the reasons I stopped using xdaliclock, although Kurt's suggestion has some merit. BTW, David, XFCE4 has no session manager (yet), and it will probably be optional when they do provide one, since everything on XFCE4 is quite modular. Then, again, some people have an aversion to GTK2. YMMV. Since I don't have a system that is continuously booted, I love the restart feature, so that I don't have to open every program again on every desktop. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area gentoo 1.4 system ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % On 12/31/02 20:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: % Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % % [distribution and window manager preferences] % % % I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's % % cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. % % I'd be interested in the XFCE version 4 stuff. % % Well, my box at work is running yesterday's CVS, so that will have to % wait til Thursday for the screenshots. Until then, here are a bunch % that someone else created: % % http://members.home.nl/jbhuijsmans/screenshots/ Thanks, Llama. XFCE 4 looks nice. Lately, I've been using FVWM2. Kurt -- Barometer, n.: An ingenious instrument which indicates what kind of weather we are having. -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 08:37:36 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % On 12/31/02 20:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: % Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: % % [distribution and window manager preferences] % % % I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's% % cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. % % I'd be interested in the XFCE version 4 stuff. % % Well, my box at work is running yesterday's CVS, so that will have to % wait til Thursday for the screenshots. Until then, here are a bunch % that someone else created: % % http://members.home.nl/jbhuijsmans/screenshots/ Thanks, Llama. XFCE 4 looks nice. Lately, I've been using FVWM2. XFCE4 works like a champ, but ... The window manager does not do session management, and there's no session manager plugin yet. For you types who ever shutdown, that's no big deal, but it's a bummer for me to have to restart and resize each app everytime I startup groan -- Collins Richey - Denver Area gentoo 1.4 system ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:53:30 -0800) On 12/31/02 21:33, Matthew Carpenter wrote: begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:58:06 -0500 (EST)) snip What kinda redhat quirks? I've always felt that SuSE had the quirks (like the rather unusual layout under /etc). Agreed. I used to HATE SuSE. RedHat has had some weird challenges which has made me sing it's praises as is required of an evangelist. I am in a heavily Microsoft area so I have a lot of evangelizing to do. Little things were just annoying, like their inability to install for me so that the machine name that I typed in was maintained after install... The biggest annoyance was just how difficult it was to configure printing. I had a very difficult time encouraging other tech-newbies to use Red Hat because there didn't seem to be a good way to admin the printing subsystem. Sure, I can create printcap files in VI, but they can't :) I liked David Bandel's description of removing the GNU from some files from the debian distro. Yea, but that's window dressing, and doesn't change the fact that the zealouts are still out there running the show. Dave Bandel is by no means your average linux user, so when he works his voodoo, its magic in the making. I was talking about his comments about removing the GNU from GNU/Linux :) Redhat is also LSB FHS compliant. Granted the last SuSE i touched was their enterprise server release, and that was still horribly perverse in its layout. If things have changed since then, i might not feel the same way. I couldn't say. But if UL is to survive at all I figure I'd better learn how things are laid out. The reason I hated it was because it was different from COL and RH. You have to compile MPlayer with libdvdcss support in order for it to be capable of playing DVDs. THe same is true for Xine. I'll check it. They wouldn't be able to ship libdvdcss, but if the MPlayer packager cared enough, he might have compiled it with the libraries and then just not ship them. Xine looks for the libraries at runtime meaning that they may or may not be there and it will load and work. Does that make sense. Talk to you later. -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems *Network Consulting, Integration Support *Web Development and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On 01/01/03 12:56, Matthew Carpenter wrote: begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:53:30 -0800) the machine name that I typed in was maintained after install... The biggest annoyance was just how difficult it was to configure printing. I had a very difficult time encouraging other tech-newbies to use Red Hat because there didn't seem to be a good way to admin the printing subsystem. Sure, I can create printcap files in VI, but they can't I'll admit, i haven't tested printing much recently. My two primary Redhat based desktop boxes are still running the original lprng that came with 6.2. That was a breeze to setup, so perhaps things have changed, i dunno. You have to compile MPlayer with libdvdcss support in order for it to be capable of playing DVDs. THe same is true for Xine. I'll check it. They wouldn't be able to ship libdvdcss, but if the MPlayer packager cared enough, he might have compiled it with the libraries and then just not ship them. Xine looks for the libraries at runtime meaning that they may or may not be there and it will load and work. Does that make sense. The MPlayer packager (if you mean the folks who write it) never provides binaries for the reasons i've elaborated on earlier. -- ~ L. Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo: http://netllama.ipfox.com 1:00pm up 17 days, 20:09, 2 users, load average: 1.82, 1.47, 1.03 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
Net Llama! wrote: On 01/01/03 12:56, Matthew Carpenter wrote: begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:53:30 -0800) the machine name that I typed in was maintained after install... The biggest annoyance was just how difficult it was to configure printing. I had a very difficult time encouraging other tech-newbies to use Red Hat because there didn't seem to be a good way to admin the printing subsystem. Sure, I can create printcap files in VI, but they can't I'll admit, i haven't tested printing much recently. My two primary Redhat based desktop boxes are still running the original lprng that came with 6.2. That was a breeze to setup, so perhaps things have changed, i dunno. I installed RH 7.3 about a month ago and used cups. It set it up and worked flawlessly. I have a Lantronix printserver so I just set up the parameters and away it went. -- Brett I. Holcomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] AKA Grunt Registered Linux User #188143 Remove R777 to email ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:31:27 -0800) For servers, Redhat-7.3(XFS). I have no favorite for desktops, since i use XFCE which is distro agnostic. No offense, but that sounds more like you don't understand why people would use something other than RedHat... :) XFCE may be distro-agnostic, but the list of installed packages and utilities to help a desktop system be a desktop system makes a difference. I have just (possibly) found my new love on the desktop. We're still in the early stages of our relationship, but she seems sweet and has a lot up top :) No, really. I am liking SuSE 8.1 because it has a lot of software included for both desktop and server-type installations, and because it has pretty intelligent handling of dependencies, and the packages (at least from what I'm seeing so far) have been cohesively packaged to play nicely together (unlike my experiences with Mandrake). The include such apps as Audacity (my audio editing software of choice, and very recent version of it) and MPlayer (haven't played with this one yet). Yast2 is visually and logically very nice, although I haven't tinkered with the text configs yet to see if Yast2 can keep its grubby hands off them. Having just installed it last night for the first time, it looks like SuSE took the fixes and new things that UnitedLinux brought into the picture and fixed a lot of 8.0's quirks. We'll see how I feel next month. I'm not proposing marriage yet, but in the wake of the bitter divorce that SCO forced upon me by discontinuing OpenLinux, it looks hop! eful. Most importantly, SuSE doesn't break KDE. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of software that it comes with, and a little disappointed that I had to install a couple packages that I'm used to in a standard install (like KDE Graphics Extras package for ksnapshot) IFUP and IFDOWN are included in this release, but I can't find LOCATE (which I live by). SuSE has really come up with an XP competator with this version. Their graphics are simply divine (with the help of the KDE team, of course). -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems *Network Consulting, Integration Support *Web Development and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Matthew Carpenter wrote: begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:31:27 -0800) For servers, Redhat-7.3(XFS). I have no favorite for desktops, since i use XFCE which is distro agnostic. No offense, but that sounds more like you don't understand why people would use something other than RedHat... :) How so? XFCE may be distro-agnostic, but the list of installed packages and utilities to help a desktop system be a desktop system makes a difference. I have just (possibly) found my new love on the desktop. We're still in the early stages of our relationship, but she seems sweet and has a lot up top :) No, really. I am liking SuSE 8.1 because it has a lot of software included for both desktop and server-type installations, and because it has pretty intelligent handling of dependencies, and the packages (at least from what I'm seeing so far) have been cohesively packaged to play nicely together (unlike my experiences with Mandrake). The include such apps as Audacity (my audio editing software of choice, and very recent version of it) and MPlayer (haven't played with this one yet). Yast2 is visually and logically very nice, although I haven't tinkered with the text configs yet to see if Yast2 can keep its grubby hands off them. Having just installed it last night for the first time, it looks like SuSE took the fixes and new things that UnitedLinux brought into the picture and fixed a lot of 8.0's quirks. We'll see how I feel next month. I'm not proposing marriage yet, but in the wake of the bitter divorce that SCO forced upon me by discontinuing OpenLinux, it looks h! op! MPlayer is one of my favorite apps. If you build it from source, you can get some amazing performance improvements, not to mention a very high degree of customization. eful. Most importantly, SuSE doesn't break KDE. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of software that it comes with, and a little disappointed that I had to install a couple packages that I'm used to in a standard install (like KDE Graphics Extras package for ksnapshot) IFUP and IFDOWN are included in this release, but I can't find LOCATE (which I live by). SuSE has really come up with an XP competator with this version. Their graphics are simply divine (with the help of the KDE team, of course). Glad that you like KDE. I finalized that divorce back when 2.0 came out, and our differences are unreconcilable. I've been happily wed to XFCE ever since. XFCE4 is really really nice, and is what KDE2/3 should have been. Beauty without the beast. -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On 12/31/2002 10:56 AM, Matthew Carpenter wrote: snippage I'm not proposing marriage yet, but in the wake of the bitter divorce that SCO forced upon me by discontinuing OpenLinux, it looks hop! eful. [sic] Yup. I hadn't intended to switch either, but the kinda forced me to. Most importantly, SuSE doesn't break KDE. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of software that it comes with, Another good point. I need to get a DVD reader one of these days, so I don't need to keep swapping CDs. The all-on-one DVD is a nice bonus. and a little disappointed that I had to install a couple packages that I'm used to in a standard install (like KDE Graphics Extras package for ksnapshot) IFUP and IFDOWN are included in this release, but I can't find LOCATE (which I live by). It's part of findutils-4.1-11. You might need to run updatedb as well - I don't recall. HTH, John V. -- _/- John Voigt - K9GBO -|- Registered Linux User #38558 --_/ _/- Reclamation Specialist --|- IN Dept of Natural Resources -_/ _/- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -|- (812) 665-2207 --_/ Murphy's Law is recursive. Washing your car to make it rain doesn't work. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:31:53 -0500 (EST)) On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Matthew Carpenter wrote: SNIP No offense, but that sounds more like you don't understand why people would use something other than RedHat... :) How so? Just that when comparing the different distros I use, it's not the WM which makes much difference (although when comparing the different desktop distros, some do one particular WM/DE better than others), but the amount of precompiled software which comes along with it is generally a good indicator of what makes a good desktop. I know that you have used RH for a long time and have made it your primary distro, and it just sounded like you hadn't ventured far to see what other options were there. I will say this much, the KDE team has covered RH's Printer Admin difficulties with their built-in Printer config tools. MPlayer is one of my favorite apps. If you build it from source, you can get some amazing performance improvements, not to mention a very high degree of customization. hmm,.. I'll have to try that. Are these improvements in an SxS? I've been thinking of building XINE for SuSE, since I didn't see it listed in the installer. Glad that you like KDE. I finalized that divorce back when 2.0 came out, and our differences are unreconcilable. I've been happily wed to XFCE ever since. XFCE4 is really really nice, and is what KDE2/3 should have been. Beauty without the beast. XFCE is in SuSE's install and I checked it just to see what you keep talking about here. I'll have to see what it's like. I know that even though I love some of KDE's perks, it does like to eat memory up for seemingly inoccuous things. Alt-F2 is just too easy a thing to give up, though! And I love Klipper's pop-up web and email options... -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems *Network Consulting, Integration Support *Web Development and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Matthew Carpenter wrote: begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:31:53 -0500 (EST)) On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Matthew Carpenter wrote: SNIP No offense, but that sounds more like you don't understand why people would use something other than RedHat... :) How so? Just that when comparing the different distros I use, it's not the WM which makes much difference (although when comparing the different desktop distros, some do one particular WM/DE better than others), but the amount of precompiled software which comes along with it is generally a good indicator of what makes a good desktop. I know that you have used RH for a long time and have made it your primary distro, and it just sounded like you hadn't ventured far to see what other options were there. I will say this much, the KDE team has covered RH's Printer Admin difficulties with their built-in Printer config tools. That's because i don't care about 90% of the precompiled packages that come with a distro. I build my own version of most things, and rarely use any of the extras that come preinstalled. What I want is a distro that is easy to install, and easy to maintain, and Redhat fits the bill for me. The KDE vs. Gnome wars are irrelevant to me, because i dont' use either. That alone negates the desktop. I used Caldera religiously up through their 2.4 release, and then came the great schism, and i moved to redhat. I tried out Debian about 3 years ago, and it was a complete nightmare to install and manage from my perspective. Yea, i know there are a few Debian based distros with GUI installers out there, but i never washed the bad taste out of my mouth, and i still dislike the entire GNU/Linux zealotry that comes with Debian. I installed SuSE about a year ago, and while the install was ok, managing it was also a nightmware with one of the most non-traditional filesystem layouts i'd ever seen (and this was compared to Redhat, Caldera Debian). I've never attempted Slackware, but i don't see a reason to when i'm satisfied with what i've got. Quite honestly, i've never understood why people spend weeks or months flying through numerous distros. Sure, some folks do it for hardware support, but i build all of my own kernels, so that's a moot point with me. Others do it looking for bleeding edge packages, but once again, i build everything i use from source, so this is also a moot point for me. In short, i've tried the other options, and wasn't impressed. Redhat meets my needs, especially when i'm building all of the packages I need anyway. MPlayer is one of my favorite apps. If you build it from source, you can get some amazing performance improvements, not to mention a very high degree of customization. hmm,.. I'll have to try that. Are these improvements in an SxS? I've been thinking of building XINE for SuSE, since I didn't see it listed in the installer. I wrote both the MPlayer Xine SxS. MPlayer is _very_ heavily dependent on the hardware in which it runs. This is why using precompiled packages is a waste, since you end up with something that is most likely not even remotely optimized for your box. For the most part, most of the hardware dependent options are autodetcted when you run './configure' for MPlayer, so you don't need a SxS for that, just build it and you get them for free. There are some optional options, which you can usually pick up on simply by running ./configure --help. As for Xine, my SxS covers how to build it for encrypted DVD support, with navigatable menu support as well. MPlayer also can play DVDs, but IMO, Xine is much more mature in that regard. Glad that you like KDE. I finalized that divorce back when 2.0 came out, and our differences are unreconcilable. I've been happily wed to XFCE ever since. XFCE4 is really really nice, and is what KDE2/3 should have been. Beauty without the beast. XFCE is in SuSE's install and I checked it just to see what you keep talking about here. I'll have to see what it's like. I know that even though I love some of KDE's perks, it does like to eat memory up for seemingly inoccuous things. Alt-F2 is just too easy a thing to give up, though! And I love Klipper's pop-up web and email options... The latest stable version of XFCE is 3.8.18. Unless you haev that or possibly 3.8.16, you're not getting a clear picture of what's available. Also, the development version of XFCE, 4.x, is available from CVS, and is prolly more stable than KDE's latest. I'm not sure what Alt-F2 does, so i can't comment on whether XFCE can do it too. XFCE is very highly configurable, and also support themes. Obviously, you're not going to get your beloved Klipper in XFCE, so if its that important to you, then you'll not enjoy your XFCE experience much. I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. --
Re: Distirbuitions
On Tue, Dec 31, 2002 at 11:46:37AM -0500, John Voigt wrote: On 12/31/2002 10:56 AM, Matthew Carpenter wrote: .. and a little disappointed that I had to install a couple packages that I'm used to in a standard install (like KDE Graphics Extras package for ksnapshot) IFUP and IFDOWN are included in this release, but I can't find LOCATE (which I live by). Me too! It's part of findutils-4.1-11. You might need to run updatedb as well - I don't recall. I found that Mandrake had left locate and updatedb out of their findutuils RPM on 8.2. I did some hacking on their SRPMS to get it back. When I installed Mandrake 9.0 yesterday, I found locate back again, but it didn't seem to have the automatic update in the daily or weekly cron jobs. I too am actively looking for a Linux distro to replace the Caldera distributions I've been using since 1994 or so. I haven't seriously looked at SuSE since 7.3, and was turned off by the monolithic configuration file. Mandrake looks a lot better to me so far than any others I've tried, but I haven't used it enough to really decide. I'll pick up a copy of SuSE 8.1 today, and give that a try. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ ``The man who produces while others dispose of his product is a slave.'' Ayn Rand ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: [distribution and window manager preferences] % I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's % cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. I'd be interested in the XFCE version 4 stuff. Kurt -- Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river. -- Nikita Khrushchev ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On 12/31/02 20:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Feigning erudition, Net Llama! wrote: [distribution and window manager preferences] % I can post screenshots of both XFCE-3.8.18 XFCE-4.x (from yesterday's % cvs checkout) if anyone is interested. I'd be interested in the XFCE version 4 stuff. Well, my box at work is running yesterday's CVS, so that will have to wait til Thursday for the screenshots. Until then, here are a bunch that someone else created: http://members.home.nl/jbhuijsmans/screenshots/ -- ~ L. Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo: http://netllama.ipfox.com 8:45pm up 17 days, 3:54, 2 users, load average: 0.04, 0.35, 0.52 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:58:06 -0500 (EST)) That's because i don't care about 90% of the precompiled packages that come with a distro. I build my own version of most things, and rarely use any of the extras that come preinstalled. What I want is a distro that is easy to install, and easy to maintain, and Redhat fits the bill for me. The KDE vs. Gnome wars are irrelevant to me, because i dont' use either. That alone negates the desktop. This is where I started disagreeing with you. If you use a system as a Desktop OS (or more importantly, if you are going to recommend a Linux Desktop for general consumption), it is going to be largely based on the software included. Most people don't have the comfort level and others don't have the time to build all their own software. Someday I'd like to try Gentoo, but I haven't had the time yet... I don't know how you make the time. I rely on so many software packages to get my job done that it is very important for me to have a system that I can have standardized packages to do so. Having done a lot of both Server and Workstation administration, I'm forced to think about a low-impact and low-maintenance install, as well as the importance of similar systems. You admin a couple hundred workstations or servers and such things become dreadfully important. I used Caldera religiously up through their 2.4 release, and then came the great schism, and i moved to redhat. I tried out Debian about 3 years ago, and it was a complete nightmare to install and manage from my perspective. I know exactly what you're talking about. I had to skip COLW31 but found 311 quite decent, however since it was DOA I have been searching for a good distro, both for Server and Desktop. Since I am finding SCO's version of UL a pretty good match for me, and it's based on SuSE, I gave SuSE another chance. Red Hat has always had a lot of weird quirks which I have never quite got over, although I've not used it much since 7.2. Yea, i know there are a few Debian based distros with GUI installers out there, but i never washed the bad taste out of my mouth, and i still dislike the entire GNU/Linux zealotry that comes with Debian. :) I liked David Bandel's description of removing the GNU from some files from the debian distro. I installed SuSE about a year ago, and while the install was ok, managing it was also a nightmware with one of the most non-traditional filesystem layouts i'd ever seen (and this was compared to Redhat, Caldera Debian). I also hated SuSE when I tried it in 7.1 (which was a HUGE improvement over 6.0 which was the last SuSE I tried). The filesystem WAS obtuse... but since I found that UL, which is supposedly LSB and FHS-compliant, had the same base I decided I'd better figure out how it works... I've never attempted Slackware, but i don't see a reason to when i'm satisfied with what i've got. Quite honestly, i've never understood why people spend weeks or months flying through numerous distros. I have personally only done this a couple times, at times when I either felt the need to familiarize myself with what differences really equate to in distros, or when Caldera announced their own distro-scuttling. MPlayer is one of my favorite apps. If you build it from source, you can get some amazing performance improvements, not to mention a very high degree of customization. What makes MPlayer better than Xine? Something that optimises for hardware at compile-time doesn't sound very robust or professional-quality. It just sounds like they are unnecessarily limiting their software. I like the run-time detection approach that Xine uses, although Xine is far from perfect... Since I am mostly interested in DVD and VCD/ASF/AVI playback, Xine seems like a better match for me... although I do like the fact that you can view QT through MPlayer. Yes, I know you wrote the SxS's for Xine and MPlayer :) If MPlayer is built without DeCSS but DeCSS is found on the system at runtime, will it use it for DVD's? Or will I have to go through and rebuild MPlayer to make it so? The latest stable version of XFCE is 3.8.18. Unless you haev that or possibly 3.8.16, you're not getting a clear picture of what's available. Also, the development version of XFCE, 4.x, is available from CVS, and is prolly more stable than KDE's latest. SuSE 8.1 includes XFCE 3.8.16. Did you run CDE or OS/2? This looks a lot like those... Thanks for the dialog and Happy New Year. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On 12/31/02 21:33, Matthew Carpenter wrote: begin Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:58:06 -0500 (EST)) That's because i don't care about 90% of the precompiled packages that come with a distro. I build my own version of most things, and rarely use any of the extras that come preinstalled. What I want is a distro that is easy to install, and easy to maintain, and Redhat fits the bill for me. The KDE vs. Gnome wars are irrelevant to me, because i dont' use either. That alone negates the desktop. This is where I started disagreeing with you. If you use a system as a Desktop OS (or more importantly, if you are going to recommend a Linux Desktop for general consumption), it is going to be largely based on the software included. Most people don't have the comfort level and others don't have the time to build all their own software. Someday I'd like to try Gentoo, but I haven't had the time yet... I don't know how you make the time. I rely on so many software packages to get my job done that it is very important for me to have a system that I can have standardized packages to do so. Having done a lot of both Server and Workstation administration, I'm forced to think about a low-impact and low-maintenance install, as well as the importance of similar systems. You admin a couple hundred workstations or servers and such things become dreadfully important. True, but thankfully, i don't admin a few hundred boxes, rather about 10-20. On the servers, i tend to use what Redhat provides for standardization purposes, although even there i build custom kernels. On the desktops, i build most everything from source because i want full control over what runs on my boxes. Sure, the 'average' desktop user won't know how to build stuff from source to start out, but i think anyone using linux can learn, its not that hard for most things. My wife, who is a Mac/Windoze diehard is slowly learning her way around a bash prompt. She uses xv to maintain the digital pictures we take, and she is insistant on using KDE-1.2 as her desktop of choice. I'd actually breakdown and build her KDE-3.x if she wanted it, cause its still miles better than the crud out of M$. She actually is starting to appreciate XFCE, but KDE is still much more 'user friendly' for her. I know exactly what you're talking about. I had to skip COLW31 but found 311 quite decent, however since it was DOA I have been searching for a good distro, both for Server and Desktop. Since I am finding SCO's version of UL a pretty good match for me, and it's based on SuSE, I gave SuSE another chance. Red Hat has always had a lot of weird quirks which I have never quite got over, although I've not used it much since 7.2. What kinda redhat quirks? I've always felt that SuSE had the quirks (like the rather unusual layout under /etc). Yea, i know there are a few Debian based distros with GUI installers out there, but i never washed the bad taste out of my mouth, and i still dislike the entire GNU/Linux zealotry that comes with Debian. :) I liked David Bandel's description of removing the GNU from some files from the debian distro. Yea, but that's window dressing, and doesn't change the fact that the zealouts are still out there running the show. Dave Bandel is by no means your average linux user, so when he works his voodoo, its magic in the making. I installed SuSE about a year ago, and while the install was ok, managing it was also a nightmware with one of the most non-traditional filesystem layouts i'd ever seen (and this was compared to Redhat, Caldera Debian). I also hated SuSE when I tried it in 7.1 (which was a HUGE improvement over 6.0 which was the last SuSE I tried). The filesystem WAS obtuse... but since I found that UL, which is supposedly LSB and FHS-compliant, had the same base I decided I'd better figure out how it works... Redhat is also LSB FHS compliant. Granted the last SuSE i touched was their enterprise server release, and that was still horribly perverse in its layout. If things have changed since then, i might not feel the same way. I have personally only done this a couple times, at times when I either felt the need to familiarize myself with what differences really equate to in distros, or when Caldera announced their own distro-scuttling. By the time that occured, i was already using Redhat at work, so it was a natural progression for me. Caldera just gave me a good reason to ditch them. MPlayer is one of my favorite apps. If you build it from source, you can get some amazing performance improvements, not to mention a very high degree of customization. What makes MPlayer better than Xine? Something that optimises for I dont' think i ever said that MPlayer was better than Xine. They are both full featured. MPlayer is a techies dream app, with loads of arcane configuration options. And it is the first open source movie player to support both
Re: Distirbuitions
Feigning erudition, Marvin Dickens wrote: % I would like to see a form on the steps that counted what distributions % are in use by the users of this list. You can't trust what the marketing % guys say or the claims of the pollster morons. It would be % interesting What do the editors think? I'd be willing to have a go at this after I get back from Christmas vacation. Kurt -- The bigger the theory the better. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
Feigning erudition, Marvin Dickens wrote: % I would like to see a form on the steps that counted what distributions % are in use by the users of this list. You can't trust what the marketing % guys say or the claims of the pollster morons. It would be % interesting What do the editors think? Although not a distribution survery, the Linux Counter provides Linux takeup statistics: http://counter.li.org/. Kurt -- There is no time like the present for postponing what you ought to be doing. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
You might look at what http://stats.gentoo.org has. They have a gentoo-stats that you can install and it sends the info to the gentoo stats site. Feigning erudition, Marvin Dickens wrote: % I would like to see a form on the steps that counted what distributions % are in use by the users of this list. You can't trust what the marketing % guys say or the claims of the pollster morons. It would be % interesting What do the editors think? I'd be willing to have a go at this after I get back from Christmas vacation. Kurt -- Brett I. Holcomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] AKA Grunt Registered Linux User #188143 Remove R777 to email ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Distirbuitions
I would like to see a form on the steps that counted what distributions are in use by the users of this list. You can't trust what the marketing guys say or the claims of the pollster morons. It would be interesting What do the editors think? Best Peck ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On 12/23/02 19:55, Marvin Dickens wrote: I would like to see a form on the steps that counted what distributions are in use by the users of this list. You can't trust what the marketing guys say or the claims of the pollster morons. It would be interesting What do the editors think? I don't think its a bad idea at all. However, the catch would be in upkeep. We could take a survey this month, and the data would/could become stale next month. And unless we get a decent number of responses, its not really going to be accurate anyway. But for what its worth, here's my data for the boxes where i have root: 1 RH-7.2 3 RH-7.2 (XFS) 2 RH-6.2 1 RHAS-2.1 4 RH-7.3 (XFS) 1 COL-3.11 1 COL-2.4 2 RH-7.1 -- ~ L. Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo: http://netllama.ipfox.com 8:20pm up 9 days, 3:30, 2 users, load average: 0.11, 0.03, 0.01 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 20:26:03 -0800 Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ snipped ] But for what its worth, here's my data for the boxes where i have root: 1 RH-7.2 3 RH-7.2 (XFS) 2 RH-6.2 1 RHAS-2.1 4 RH-7.3 (XFS) 1 COL-3.11 1 COL-2.4 2 RH-7.1 Wow, the COL-2.4 box must be almost as up to date as debian. slap -- Collins Richey - Denver Area Gentoo 1.4 sytem ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On Mon, Dec 23, 2002 at 09:33:51PM -0700, Collins wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 20:26:03 -0800 Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ snipped ] But for what its worth, here's my data for the boxes where i have root: 1 RH-7.2 3 RH-7.2 (XFS) 2 RH-6.2 1 RHAS-2.1 4 RH-7.3 (XFS) 1 COL-3.11 1 COL-2.4 2 RH-7.1 Wow, the COL-2.4 box must be almost as up to date as debian. slap Don't speak too harshly. We still maintain several Caldera OpenLinux 1.3 systems that are in heavy commercial use. I don't have counts on the various systems but we use/maintain: Caldera OpenLinux 1.3 Caldera OpenLinux 2.3 Caldera OpenLinux eServer 2.3 Caldera OpenLinux eDesktop 2.4 Caldera Workstation 3.1.1 Mandrake 8.2 RH 7.3 freebsd 4.[3-7] Apple OS X 10.1 - 10.2.3 SCO OpenServer My personal desktop systems are Caldera 3.1.1 WS and eDesktop 2.4, Mandrake 8.2, a PowerMac G4 with OS X 10.2.3, and RSN freebsd. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ The cry has been that when war is declared, all opposition should therefore be hushed. A sentiment more unworthy of a free country could hardly be propagated. If the doctrine be admitted, rulers have only to declare war and they are screened at once from scrutiny ... In war, then, as in peace, assert the freedom of speech and of the press. Cling to this as the bulwark of all our rights and privileges. -- William Ellery Channing ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Distirbuitions
On 12/23/02 20:33, Collins wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 20:26:03 -0800 Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ snipped ] But for what its worth, here's my data for the boxes where i have root: 1 RH-7.2 3 RH-7.2 (XFS) 2 RH-6.2 1 RHAS-2.1 4 RH-7.3 (XFS) 1 COL-3.11 1 COL-2.4 2 RH-7.1 Wow, the COL-2.4 box must be almost as up to date as debian. slap Well, that's what it started off as, but was updated piecemeal over time, and is only used for burning CDs now (its not internet facing). I think its got a 2.4.7 kernel on it, and some ancient openssh version, and runs headless. -- ~ L. Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo: http://netllama.ipfox.com 9:00pm up 9 days, 4:10, 2 users, load average: 0.02, 0.05, 0.06 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
