Re: *Buffy's Not Included
XML - do it because you need it, not because of the Buzz. XML is cool for handeling complex (or varied) data and sharing this info with others (but if CSV will do, then use that!). I'd suggest it VERY much depends on why you want to use it, what is the ASCII data ? If it was worth putting the data into XML and you were worried about the speed of searching, you could always write a script (with one of the _many_ XML:: modules) to slurp keywords or whatever in from the XML so that you can search it in a DB and have that point to a file rather than trawling all the XML files for every search. XML in a Nutshell is a very good book. Leo - Who's only actually used XML for 2 projects and is proud of that fact. On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 09:25:25AM +0100, Robert Thompson wrote: I was wondering what the pro's and con's are of using XML to structure ASCII based data files. What are peoples experience of using XML - particularly where you may have to trawl through lots of files to get at the data you want?
RE: *Buffy's Not Included
From: Leo Lapworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] XML - do it because you need it, not because of the Buzz. Never was one for following the hype - just trying to work out if it's the right tool or not. Part of the problem is probably that I've heard snippets of what XML can do/is good for, and I've been given these requirements and now I'm trying to work out if its The Right Way or Not. XML is cool for handeling complex (or varied) data and sharing this info with others (but if CSV will do, then use that!). Not sure if CSV will handle it easily... I'd suggest it VERY much depends on why you want to use it, what is the ASCII data ? Basically it's the results from a spidering system. The results are put both into a db and these files (one file per day). The data will include a ranking score based on the search criteria, URI, document summary (which will include HTML snippets - although it may not be properly formed). There may also be some other data that needs to be saved. CSV is an option - except that an awful lot of the data will need to be escaped out before it goes into the file, and I would rather only have to do when its rendered out to the browser. I could produce my own file format from scratch - and write the tools to look after it... eg #URL#http://whatever.com #SCORE#0 #SUMMARY#'broken html'/a bugger/P Or I could use one of the XML modules to help me look after the files. The data from these files will primarily be diplayed within an HTML page. A perceived advantage of XML here (for someone who has barely scratched the surface of what XML can do), is the ability to (relatively) easily take the XML and spit it out to the browser - and yes I know it's never quite that simple. I'm also trying to future proof the system slightly - I think that by having the data XML based it may make it easier to use in new and wonderful ways in the future, without having to write all the tools from scratch. If it was worth putting the data into XML and you were worried about the speed of searching, you could always write a script (with one of the _many_ XML:: modules) to slurp keywords or whatever in from the XML so that you can search it in a DB and have that point to a file rather than trawling all the XML files for every search. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to make use of the database - it is a requirement that this particular functionality can cope with the db not actually being there. XML in a Nutshell is a very good book. I'll look it up Ta Rob --- Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of IBNet Plc. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
Re: *Buffy's Not Included
On or about Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 10:01:33AM +0100, Robert Thompson typed: CSV is an option - except that an awful lot of the data will need to be escaped out before it goes into the file, and I would rather only have to do when its rendered out to the browser. DBD::CSV is your friend. Sits on top of Text::CSV_XS and gives you a basic SQLish interface. Roger
Re: Tie::Hash::Transactional
David Cantrell wrote: It was disgustingly easy to write Yeah, awful language this Perl. Makes things much too easy. I hope our bosses never find out that things take a fraction of the time they would with other languages :-) Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: *Buffy's Not Included
Roger Burton West wrote: DBD::CSV is your friend. I second that. DBD::CSV is yum. Also handles escaping of double quotes or commas when inserting strings, etc. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
RE: *Buffy's Not Included
From: Philip Newton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Roger Burton West wrote: DBD::CSV is your friend. I second that. DBD::CSV is yum. Also handles escaping of double quotes or commas when inserting strings, etc. DBD:CSV seems to be popular and on reading the docs I can see why... ... did I mention that the powers that be want to ability to hand modify these files? And possibly by people who do not know what they are doing? That's part of the reason why I would rather not have to worry about escaping anything out in the data file itself - just in case somebody breaks it. Rob - paranoia's just a state of mind - --- Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of IBNet Plc. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
Re: *Buffy's Not Included
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:19:10AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Roger Burton West wrote: DBD::CSV is your friend. I second that. DBD::CSV is yum. Also handles escaping of double quotes or commas when inserting strings, etc. Of course, the plain ol' CSV modules handle all the appropriate escaping too if you use them to build your CSV records. You do do that, right, and not try to write the files yourself? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
RE: *Buffy's Not Included
From: Leo Lapworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] XML - do it because you need it, not because of the Buzz. Amen. I'm also trying to future proof the system slightly - I think that by having the data XML based it may make it easier to use in new and wonderful ways in the future, without having to write all the tools from scratch. I'm doing a lot of work at the moment with XML (still fairly rudiemntary stuff, though) and for me the future proofing has been the deciding factor. We don't know what we need the system to be capable of in the medium to long term, and so we've gone down the XML path to keep our options open. The way I look at it, if it makes the data more readable and easily managed (through XPath XSLT for example), then provided you don't suffer an unbearable performance hit, it's worth the effort. Also, with something reasonably simple, it's probably a safe training ground for getting into XML without the pressure of a more critical project. Let you find out what you like/dislike about XML without becoming a lemming. XML in a Nutshell is a very good book ++ My £0.02. Ian _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Re: *Buffy's Not Included
CSV is an option - except that an awful lot of the data will need to be escaped out before it goes into the file, and I would rather only have to do when its rendered out to the browser. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to make use of the database - it is a requirement that this particular functionality can cope with the db not actually being there. Sounds like you need DBD::CSV. DBD::CSV will allow you to operate your text files in the same way that you operate your database. You can literally say: $dbh = DBI-connect(DBI:mysql:database=whatever, user, pass) ## Your # normal DB access. $dbhcsv = DBI-connect(DBI:CSV:f_dir=/usr/data/csvstuff); # Open the csv files $sqlstring = insert into mytable values (?,?,?,?,?,?); $sth1 = $dbh-prepare($sqlstring); $sthcsv = $dbhcsv-prepare($sqlstring); # # Then, any operations you do on the database, you can do on the # CSV file... [0] # $sth1-execute(@args); $sthcsv-execute(@args); Regards, Red [0] Although I wouldn't reccomend using it for large select-type queries as with all plaintext files it won't scale. Appending data to this type of file seems to scale nicely. It also means that if you were using these files to restore your database if it loses everything retoration is as simple as a read on one handle and a write on the other.
Re: *Buffy's Not Included
Sounds like you need DBD::CSV. Note to self... read all replies in a thread to make sure you don't provide redundant information.
RE: *Buffy's Not Included
From: Robert Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 9:25 AM Sorry to go off topic... I was wondering what the pro's and con's are of using XML to structure ASCII based data files. What are peoples experience of using XML - particularly where you may have to trawl through lots of files to get at the data you want? Ta muchly in advance for any info or pointers I notice that a new Perl/XML web page has just appeared: http://www.xmlperl.com/ Dave... -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
Re: *Buffy's Not Included
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 10:44:50AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: At 10:01 14/06/01 +0100, you wrote: The data from these files will primarily be diplayed within an HTML page. A perceived advantage of XML here (for someone who has barely scratched the surface of what XML can do), is the ability to (relatively) easily take the XML and spit it out to the browser - and yes I know it's never quite that simple. I'm biased because I'm now working in a highly SGML / XML based company, and it's remarkable what they manage to do with XSLT. Seeing as this (alledgedly) a perl place, I'd like to point at that if you're considering displaying XML on a web site, you should probably be looking at http://axkit.org/ . Matt Sergeant came and gave a talk us a couple of months ago, it's a fine toy. -Dom -- | Semantico: creators of major online resources | | URL: http://www.semantico.com/ | | Tel: +44 (1273) 72 | | Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |
Online Bookshops
If I'm trying to avoid Amazon for some technical books, what sites are currently suggested? Richard
Re: Online Bookshops
I like this lot. http://www.alphabetstreet.infront.co.uk/computing/publishers/oreilly.jhtml -- Robert - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 June 2001 12:23 Subject: Re: Online Bookshops Richard Clyne wrote: If I'm trying to avoid Amazon for some technical books, what sites are currently suggested? Richard I always like the PC Bookshop http://www.pcbooks.co.uk It's also a real live bookshop, with a great selection of titles. (And I ALWAYS am suckered into buying more OReilly titles every time I go in. This time I bought a new edition of High Performance Computing, already having edition 1)
Re: Online Bookshops
I think we need a FAQ, I'm sure this has come up a few times. -- Robert - Original Message - From: Richard Clyne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 June 2001 11:33 Subject: Online Bookshops If I'm trying to avoid Amazon for some technical books, what sites are currently suggested? Richard
Re: Online Bookshops
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 02:42:30PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Robert Shiels wrote: Richard wrote: If I'm trying to avoid Amazon for some technical books, what sites are currently suggested? I think we need a FAQ, I'm sure this has come up a few times. You volunteering? ;-) I hereby volounteer to request a FAQ. Does anybody want a FAQ? There, that wasn't too bad. -Dom -- | Semantico: creators of major online resources | | URL: http://www.semantico.com/ | | Tel: +44 (1273) 72 | | Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |
Re: Tie::Hash::Transactional
On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, David Cantrell wrote: Go me! Tie::Hash::Transactional is written. It implements a hash which you can checkpoint and rollback. Thats weird, I just wrote something that did that very thing the other day .. the transactional bit was just a side affect of having a tied hash that could tell which keys which had been updated so I could cheat big time with the internal data hash which keeps all the stuff for the billing system here ... /J\
London.pm - FAQ for web site (was books or something).
Well, as has been muttered about I am redoing the London.pm.org website. And yes it DOES need a faq, I have the start of one, but would very much love someone else to finish it off. So, If anyone is up for it give me a yell and I'll email you the XML that needs populating. The website development is a dictatorship (e.g. we want it done this year so I'm not taking any comments or suggestions until after it's gone live), so no starting of huge discussions about what should go in a FAQ, if your interested and have an opinion, contact me and you can do it! :) Infact now I think about it, 2 faq's would be good. 1) London.pm - the FAQs 2) General - like where to buy books online / hardware etc So maybe there are two people out there who want to write these. Leo On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 02:42:30PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: I think we need a FAQ, I'm sure this has come up a few times. You volunteering? ;-)
Re: London.pm - FAQ for web site (was books or something).
Leo Lapworth sent the following bits through the ether: And yes it DOES need a faq, I have the start of one, but would very much love someone else to finish it off. google++ # london.pm faq http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg02436.html -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ Iterative Software...http://www.iterative-software.com/ ... Error 256: Programmer Deleted
Re: Y::E accomodation
Redvers Davies wrote: The Bilderberg Garden Hotel. lastmin.com do bookings for it. Wow. Either you have more money than you know what to do with or your company allows for higher expenses than mine. www.lastminute.com says GBP 82.90 - GBP 126.46; my company guidelines say (for German hotels) DEM 140 - DEM170, or ca. GBP 40 - GBP 55 (guessed). And it seems to be a 5* hotel. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: London.pm - FAQ for web site (was books or something).
* at 14/06 14:55 +0100 Leo Lapworth said: Well, as has been muttered about I am redoing the London.pm.org website. And yes it DOES need a faq, I have the start of one, but would very much love someone else to finish it off. So, If anyone is up for it give me a yell and I'll email you the XML that needs populating. The website development is a dictatorship (e.g. we want it done this year so I'm not taking any comments or suggestions until after it's gone live), so no starting of huge discussions about what should go in a FAQ, if your interested and have an opinion, contact me and you can do it! :) Infact now I think about it, 2 faq's would be good. 1) London.pm - the FAQs 2) General - like where to buy books online / hardware etc So maybe there are two people out there who want to write these. er, i'll go for the general one... struan
[fwd] Group booking AC Hotel
For those not on the yapc europe mailing list. (you will need to subscribe to register interest in this though). Neil. - Forwarded message from Jouke Visser [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:34:10 +0200 From: Jouke Visser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Group booking AC Hotel As posted before, if anyone wants to use the possibility of a discount hotel-booking, please reply to the list. If we get enough people to stay for enough nights, we can get a group discount. Jouke Visser YAPC::Europe Sponsoring - End forwarded message - -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: [fwd] Group booking AC Hotel
Neil Ford sent the following bits through the ether: For those not on the yapc europe mailing list. (you will need to subscribe to register interest in this though). Hmmm, it may be an idea to get something closer to the center of town. Quick, someone organise. Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ Iterative Software...http://www.iterative-software.com/ ... Overload - core meltdown sequence initiated
Re: [fwd] Group booking AC Hotel
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 05:05:53PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote: For those not on the yapc europe mailing list. (you will need to subscribe to register interest in this though). Neil. For anyone interested, here's a URL on the hotel (it's long I'm afraid). http://www.bookings.nl/hotels/acamsterdam?area_key=cityavail_key=onclass=3class_key=onid=11lang=ukoffers_key=onplace=Amsterdamsbd=1sbm=8sed=6sem=8state=The+Netherlandsx=77y=10via=search Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
another test
this is the final test -- Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
Re: your mail
* Dominic Mitchell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 05:16:00PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: yet another test I'm sorry, but you appear to have failed again. This message is quite visible! :-( well i had managed to screw up mail for 2 days, i personally believe it was a communist/socialist/signal lovers conspiracy to stop me being the king of the noise on london.pm but i'm back and boy do i have a lot to post about! wooo h -- Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
YAPC::Europe
So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe? -- Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 05:28:45PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe? a) I can blag it as a training course with my boss b) I can afford to take time off work c) She can find a babysitter d) We can afford to take her too $answer = ( $a || $b ) $c $d; Alex -- Four pints of milk, a turkey baster and some plastic tubing, that's all you need. http://www.cpio.org/~grimoire http://www.livejournal.com/users/diffrentcolours
Re: YAPC::Europe
From: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe? I did ask, but she doesn't fancy it. So I get to party :) Barbie
curse
here was a fun unbless function i wrote in response to something
on spug's mailing list (it never made here or there, due to mailing
difficulties at the time)
sub curse ($) {
my $thing = shift;
if (!(ref($thing))) {
die Can't curse non-reference value;
}
if ($thing =~ m/=(SCALAR|ARRAY|HASH|CODE|GLOB)\(/) {
return bless $thing, $1;
} else {
return $thing;
}
}
Trelane then came up with this error case
$x = curse new String(This is a problem cos I have =ARRAY(foo in my text);
print $x,\n;
package String;
use overload '' = sub { $_[0]-{text}};
use overload;
sub new
{
my $class = shift;
return bless {text = join('',@_)}, $class;
}
which just shows you what a so and so he is ;-)
However there is a good soln in scalar::util or somesuch
Greg
--
Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
Re: YAPC::Europe
So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe? Mine will have emmigrated by then, so no. If anything goes wrong, then yes.
crazy golf
Beware, it's in Flash (or Shockwave) http://www.electrotank.com/lab/minigolf.html Hole 17 is a bugger c. -- every day, computers are making people easier to use http://www.unorthodoxstyles.com
misc URL
i'm not a great fan of people sending URLs randomly, but this has to be an exception, remember the joy of your childhood years reading the guiness book of records (and watching record breakers as well, with Roy, Norris and later on Cheryl). well you can relive that joy at http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/ and read stories about nutters like this (look out for the bit from the coast guard/ sea rescue) http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/top_stories/topstorydetails.asp?TopStoryID=478 -- Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
Re: YAPC::Europe
So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe? Some of us can't afford YAPC. And some of us don't have partners :-( L. Life is pain, Highness! Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.
Re: YAPC::Europe
* Lucy McWilliam ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe? Some of us can't afford YAPC. Well at least its not due to the entry fee and if its a matter of accomodation cost, ask on the list for somewhere to crash. And some of us don't have partners :-( Thats why you should come to YAPC::Europe and meet the monger of your dreams ;-) -- Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
Re: YAPC::Europe
Well at least its not due to the entry fee and if its a matter of accomodation cost, ask on the list for somewhere to crash. Plane tickets are currently 37 quid return via easyjet... Thats why you should come to YAPC::Europe and meet the monger of your dreams ;-) Indeed... see them in their natural habitat.
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe? It had been my intention for the whole Gellyfish Clan to venture forth to Amsterdam but it looks like I will be the only representative now as the leader has decided that she has been to Amsterdam too many times previously to justify the cost and I cant be arsed to argue about it :) /J\
Re: Y::E accomodation
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Philip Newton wrote: Redvers Davies wrote: The Bilderberg Garden Hotel. lastmin.com do bookings for it. Wow. Either you have more money than you know what to do with or your company allows for higher expenses than mine. www.lastminute.com says GBP 82.90 - GBP 126.46; my company guidelines say (for German hotels) DEM 140 - DEM170, or ca. GBP 40 - GBP 55 (guessed). And it seems to be a 5* hotel. I'm getting some Platinum plated cats soon /J\
Re: another test
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: this is the final test No wonder you're number 1 in the posting league. L. I've got a touch of the singles. Shingles? No, singles.
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Lucy McWilliam ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Some of us can't afford YAPC. Well at least its not due to the entry fee and if its a matter of accomodation cost, ask on the list for somewhere to crash. Ah, well. Have made prior arrangemnets now (beer festival). Thats why you should come to YAPC::Europe and meet the monger of your dreams ;-) L. Geek fetish? Moi?
Re: YAPC::Europe
* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: It had been my intention for the whole Gellyfish Clan to venture forth to Amsterdam but it looks like I will be the only representative now as the leader has decided that she has been to Amsterdam too many times previously to justify the cost and I cant be arsed to argue about it :) So how many of clan Cross intend to travel? -- Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 07:46:56PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe? Some of us can't afford YAPC. And some of us don't have partners :-( maybe we could have Yet Another Beer :: London at the same time then. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, David Cantrell wrote: Some of us can't afford YAPC. And some of us don't have partners :-( maybe we could have Yet Another Beer :: London at the same time then. Sounds eminently doable ;-) L. I have no sig
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 10:45:32PM +0100, Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: * Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: It had been my intention for the whole Gellyfish Clan to venture forth to Amsterdam but it looks like I will be the only representative now as the leader has decided that she has been to Amsterdam too many times previously to justify the cost and I cant be arsed to argue about it :) So how many of clan Cross intend to travel? Just the one. Gill has no real interest in visiting Amsterdam - especially not in the company of a load of geeks :) Dave... -- Drugs are just bad m'kay
