the list is dead, long live the list

[Jo Walsh]

lets kill off the old list before the two get too far out of sync

jo


ps sorry about mail bounces from partyvibe it will be down til next week
:(

-- 
a member of the state51 conspiracy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: one liner

[Shevek]

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote:

> I'm sure there are reasonable number of online manuals we'd all like
> printed copies of.
> 
> Maybe we should see about costs for getting some of them printed fairly
> nicely and bound.

I think the uni offers such a service here.

--
Shevek
I am the Borg.
sub AUTOLOAD { ($s=$AUTOLOAD)=~s/.*:://; eval qq{ *$AUTOLOAD=$s
?sub {$s*&{$s-1}} :sub {1}; }; goto &$AUTOLOAD; } print &{'4'}; 

Re: one liner

[Michael Stevens]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 12:24:59PM +, Shevek wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote:
> 
> > I'm sure there are reasonable number of online manuals we'd all like
> > printed copies of.
> > 
> > Maybe we should see about costs for getting some of them printed fairly
> > nicely and bound.
> 
> I think the uni offers such a service here.

What about us poor, benighted souls who aren't at a uni? :)

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Leon Brocard]

Jo Walsh sent the following bits through the ether:
 
> lets kill off the old list before the two get too far out of sync

Nah, mailman on penderel - you know you want to! ;-)

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!

Re: Directory to Data Structure

[Shevek]

Something like:

{ 
local $"="'}->{'";
my $file = pop(@fp);
eval qq{push(\@{\$dirstruct{'@fp'}}, $file)};
}

Not as good as it might be.

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Andy Williams wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I'm using File::Find to recursively get all the files from a directory
> structure, then splitting each $File::Find::name into an array.
> What I need to do is put this into a data structure like:
> $dirstruct{"mydir"}->{dir1}->{dir2}->["A.A","B.B"]
> $dirstruct{"mydir"}->{dir1}->{dir3}->{dir4}->["C.C","D.D"]
> $dirstruct{"mydir"}->{dir4}->{dir5}->["E.E"]
> The directory listing would be:
> /dir1/dir2/A.A
> /dir1/dir2/B.B
> /dir1/dir3/dir4/C.C
> /dir1/dir3/dir4/D.D
> /dir4/dir5/E.E
> 
> I know I've done this before, but I'll be damned if I can find it or
> remember how I did it.
> 
> 
> my $directory = '\\gbu'; # Sorry it's on Windows!
> 
> find(\&getfiles, $directory);
> 
> getfiles($directory);
> 
> sub getfiles {
> my $file = $File::Find::name;
> return if (! $file);
> if (-f $file) {
> $file =~ s/^\\//g;
> my @fp = split(/\//,$file);
> # Somehow need to get this into %DIRSTRUCT!!
> ...
> }
> }
> 
> 
> Please Help!
> 
> TIA
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 
> "This sounds like a twelve-change-of-underwear trip."
> 
> 
> 
> 

--
Shevek
I am the Borg.
sub AUTOLOAD { ($s=$AUTOLOAD)=~s/.*:://; eval qq{ *$AUTOLOAD=$s
?sub {$s*&{$s-1}} :sub {1}; }; goto &$AUTOLOAD; } print &{'4'}; 

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Michael Stevens]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 12:32:46PM +, Leon Brocard wrote:
> Jo Walsh sent the following bits through the ether:
> > lets kill off the old list before the two get too far out of sync
> Nah, mailman on penderel - you know you want to! ;-)

Yeah, we want our own mailing list server.

And a pony.

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Struan Donald]

* at 11/01 12:51 + Michael Stevens said:
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 12:32:46PM +, Leon Brocard wrote:
> > Jo Walsh sent the following bits through the ether:
> > > lets kill off the old list before the two get too far out of sync
> > Nah, mailman on penderel - you know you want to! ;-)
> 
> Yeah, we want our own mailing list server.
> 
> And a pony.

who needs a pony when we have a camel?

-- 
Struan Donald
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Code Flunky, 365 Plc.
http://www.365corp.com/

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Peter Corlett]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you write:
>> Nah, mailman on penderel - you know you want to! ;-)
> Yeah, we want our own mailing list server.

Mmph, it's not that hard to install Majordomo is it? If need be, just give
me the root password and I'll go and set it up...

> And a pony.

It's running Apache already, surely?

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Jo Walsh]

> > And a pony.
> 
> who needs a pony when we have a camel?
> 
> 
when are we going to see the camel

i would sooner install qmail/ezmlm than mailman
would ppl object?

-- 
a member of the state51 conspiracy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Roger Burton West]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:11:45PM +, Peter Corlett wrote:

>Mmph, it's not that hard to install Majordomo is it? If need be, just give
>me the root password and I'll go and set it up...

...and once you've installed Majordomo, _everyone_ has the root
password...

(Supposedly Mjd 2 is going to be better, RSN.)

Smartlist is good. Mailman is good.

R

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Michael Stevens]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:11:45PM +, Peter Corlett wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you write:
> >> Nah, mailman on penderel - you know you want to! ;-)
> > Yeah, we want our own mailing list server.
> Mmph, it's not that hard to install Majordomo is it? If need be, just give
> me the root password and I'll go and set it up...

Yes, but majordomo is unpleasant.

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Michael Stevens]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:16:19PM +, Jo Walsh wrote:
> i would sooner install qmail/ezmlm than mailman
> would ppl object?

I'd rather see exim/mailman but qmail is cool too.

The most important bit is to get *something* working :)

Michael

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Greg Cope]

Roger Burton West wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:11:45PM +, Peter Corlett wrote:
> 
> >Mmph, it's not that hard to install Majordomo is it? If need be, just give
> >me the root password and I'll go and set it up...
> 
> ...and once you've installed Majordomo, _everyone_ has the root
> password...
> 
> (Supposedly Mjd 2 is going to be better, RSN.)
> 
> Smartlist is good. Mailman is good.
> 
> R

ezmlm is better

Greg

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Michael Stevens]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:20:33PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> (Supposedly Mjd 2 is going to be better, RSN.)

IIRC the postgresql mailing list are actually using it, or were. Don't
think that it is done yet, tho.

> Smartlist is good. Mailman is good.

ezmlm and qmail actually seem pretty nice, apart from the usual
bernstein factor.

Michael

Re: Technical Meeting

[Andy Wardley]

On Jan 8,  Andy Wardley, thricefold decorated in the Winky Wars wrote:
> How about I do a 20 minute session on Pod::POM and TT views, take a break
> while Alex talks, and then do another 20 minutes on XML::Schema?

No-one has said otherwise, so I'll assume that's OK

Now, can someone tell me where and when the meeting is?


A

-- 
Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[David Cantrell]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:11:45PM +, Peter Corlett wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you write:
> >> Nah, mailman on penderel - you know you want to! ;-)
> > Yeah, we want our own mailing list server.
> 
> Mmph, it's not that hard to install Majordomo is it? If need be, just give
> me the root password and I'll go and set it up...

/me has a bone to pick with majordomo.

majordomo + virtual domains = a whole world of hurt

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

RE: Technical Meeting

[dcross - David Cross]

From: Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11 January 2001 13:28

> On Jan 8,  Andy Wardley, thricefold decorated in the Winky Wars wrote:
> > How about I do a 20 minute session on Pod::POM and TT 
> > views, take a break while Alex talks, and then do another 20 minutes 
> > on XML::Schema?
> 
> No-one has said otherwise, so I'll assume that's OK

Works for me. Tell you what, why don't I publish an official schedule this
evening!

Anyone else wanting to lightning talks should get back to me today.

> Now, can someone tell me where and when the meeting is?

Hmm... Alex said:

> [better instructions soon, but it takes up most of rhoda street, bethnal
> green, nearest tubes are old street, shoreditch, liverpool street and
> bethnal green, or closest of all, bus route number 8] 

And it's on Thursday 18th (i.e. next Thursday). We'll start at about 7pm.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
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named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
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If you have received this communication in error, please 
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Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Michael Stevens]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:27:50PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
> /me has a bone to pick with majordomo.
> majordomo + virtual domains = a whole world of hurt

It's doable, you'll just wish you hadn't.

Michael

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[David Cantrell]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:25:26PM +, Greg Cope wrote:

> Roger Burton West wrote:
>
> > Smartlist is good. Mailman is good.
> 
> ezmlm is better

Other than its unfortunate reliance on qmail.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[David Cantrell]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:26:10PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:

> ezmlm and qmail actually seem pretty nice, apart from the usual
> bernstein factor.

Exactly.  I just can't handle bernsteinisms when there are good alternatives
available - exim (easy), postfix (secure), mailman.  I can only put up with
his oddities when the alternative is worse.  djbdns vs bind.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

RE: the list is dead, long live the list

[dcross - David Cross]

From: Peter Corlett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11 January 2001 13:12

> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you write:
> >> Nah, mailman on penderel - you know you want to! ;-)
> > Yeah, we want our own mailing list server.
> 
> Mmph, it's not that hard to install Majordomo is it? If need 
> be, just give me the root password and I'll go and set it up...

We've had this discussion before (maybe in irc or in the pub) and decided
that installing Majordomo would be a bad idea. I thought we'd decided on
mailman as it seems to be the best MLM out there. Yes it's written in
Python, but there's plenty of other software on the box which isn't written
in Perl...

...and besides, there's a rumour that Andy Wardley has a hacked version of
mailman that doesn't have the 'Powered by Python' logos :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
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Pubs! (was: RE: Forthcoming Meetings - Summary)

[dcross - David Cross]

From: dcross - David Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 08 January 2001 11:03

> From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 08 January 2001 11:00
> 
> > dcross - David Cross wrote:
> > 
> > > If I don't hear any objections by the end of tomorrow, I'm 
> > > going to appoint Simon as official pub organiser and suggest 
> > > we try the BB&B for the Feb meeting (the McCarroll heretics 
> > > can, of course, have their meeting the following week wherever 
> > > they want).
> > 
> > I'll phone them up now and book. How many people are we 
> > expecting? About 20?
> 
> Somewhere between 20 and 30 if recent meetings are any guide. 
> The presence of MJD might bump that up a bit I suppose.
> 
> Can you wait until tomorrow before calling them to give 
> people a chance to object to coming south of the river.

I only counted one objection and a number of agreements so I suggest that
Simon puts this plan into action and books us some space upstairs at the
BB&B for Thursday 1st Feb. We'll treat it as an experiment and if we don't
like it we can try somewhere else (or even go back to the PO).

Whilst exploring this area at lunchtime I found a pub called the Elusive
Camel. I don't know what it's like outside, but further investigation has
revealed that there are others in Victoria and Waterloo. Has anyone tried
them? Should we investigate further?

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
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named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
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From whence cometh www.fnord.demon.co.uk?

[Andy Wardley]

Is anyone here responsible for www.fnord.demon.co.uk, or know
someone who is?

It's really only a matter of curiosity[1].  I was drawn there after
last night's Mark Thomas Product on Channel 4 and noticed a cryptic
Perl 3 liner (which I couldn't get to work) prominently placed on a
front page.

  http://www.fnord.demon.co.uk/mt/fifth/

Some time later on the same site I came across a reference to Mark
being a "Meeja Hor" and it rung a London.pm bell.

Anyone?  Class?  Anyone?



A

[1] Although I would like to suggest a version of the site that
doesn't require various plugins.

-- 
Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[David Cantrell]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:39:18PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:27:50PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
> > /me has a bone to pick with majordomo.
> > majordomo + virtual domains = a whole world of hurt
> 
> It's doable, you'll just wish you hadn't.

It's all working swimingly now.  But I *really* regret redirecting mail
to root to my phone.

Good thing: the error messages were short enough to fit into an SMS
Bad thing: they contained no useful information whatsoever

I Will Not Give In.  I Will Not Install Python.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

Re: Pubs! (was: RE: Forthcoming Meetings - Summary)

[Greg McCarroll]

* dcross - David Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> Whilst exploring this area at lunchtime I found a pub called the Elusive
> Camel. 
> I don't know what it's like outside, but further investigation has
> revealed that there are others in Victoria and Waterloo. Has anyone tried
> them? Should we investigate further?

i drank in the elusive camel on occasion near victoria, its ok, its
an office crowd with a wicker chair style deco, i get the feeling
however they wouldn't like 20 drunk geeks - not quite cool enough
if you know what i mean

its the type of pub that turns into some peoples idea of hell when it
is office party season


-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Mark Rogaski]

An entity claiming to be David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: 
: majordomo + virtual domains = a whole world of hurt
: 

With a virtual user table under Sendmail, I would imagine it's not _that_
bad.

Mark

-- 
Mark Rogaski  | "I've said this before but I'll say it again:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Smashing Pumpkins IS REO Speedwagon."
http://www.pobox.com/~wendigo |  -- Steve Albini
__END__   |

 PGP signature

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Andy Wardley]

On Jan 11,  1:49pm, dcross - David Cross wrote:
> ...and besides, there's a rumour that Andy Wardley has a hacked version of
> mailman that doesn't have the 'Powered by Python' logos :)

Sir, I must protest.  You imply I hack Python!

But I do have a modified "Powered by Python" logo.  It's exactly the same
as the original, but I simply changed the colours to be white-on-white.
Thanks to the wonders of PNG, you get the full 32-bits of colour in just
196 bytes :-)

   http://www.tt2.org/images/mailman/PythonPowered.png

In fact the question you have to ask yourself is "How much more white
could this be?" and the answer is "None, none more white."

In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing
list manager.


A

-- 
Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/

RE: From whence cometh www.fnord.demon.co.uk?

[dcross - David Cross]

From: Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11 January 2001 13:57

> Is anyone here responsible for www.fnord.demon.co.uk, or know
> someone who is?

I used to hang around with the MTCP groupies, but haven't spoken to any of
them for some time. You might get more information from the
slightly-more-official  or the mailing list
.

> It's really only a matter of curiosity[1].  I was drawn there after
> last night's Mark Thomas Product on Channel 4 and noticed a cryptic
> Perl 3 liner (which I couldn't get to work) prominently placed on a
> front page.
> 
>   http://www.fnord.demon.co.uk/mt/fifth/
> 
> Some time later on the same site I came across a reference to Mark
> being a "Meeja Hor" and it rung a London.pm bell.

The Mark Thomas usage came first. A couple of years ago, he wore t-shirts
with weird slogans on for each show. A couple of them were 'Meeja Hor' and
'Mor Hor'. The first was obviously ripe for appropriation and lengthening (a
kind of "Embrace and Extend").
 
> [1] Although I would like to suggest a version of the site that
> doesn't require various plugins.

And, especially, a version that _doesn't_ insist on playing horrible midi
files at you on every page :(

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
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copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
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Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Michael Stevens]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:51:15PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
> Good thing: the error messages were short enough to fit into an SMS
> Bad thing: they contained no useful information whatsoever
> I Will Not Give In.  I Will Not Install Python.

I actually kinda like python, from the little I've played with it.

Michael

Re: Pubs! (was: RE: Forthcoming Meetings - Summary)

[Paul Sharpe]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:

> * dcross - David Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > 
> > Whilst exploring this area at lunchtime I found a pub called the Elusive
> > Camel. 
> > I don't know what it's like outside, but further investigation has
> > revealed that there are others in Victoria and Waterloo. Has anyone tried
> > them? Should we investigate further?
> 
> i drank in the elusive camel on occasion near victoria, its ok, its
> an office crowd with a wicker chair style deco, i get the feeling
> however they wouldn't like 20 drunk geeks - not quite cool enough
> if you know what i mean
> 
> its the type of pub that turns into some peoples idea of hell when it
> is office party season

I don't think it's a chain tho.  The one on Tooley Street has an upstairs
which is sometimes empty (dunno about Thursdays) with big sofas as well
as normal pub furniture.  Look out for the coolest washbasins in the
men's toilet.

paul

--
Paul Sharpe   Tel: +44 (20) 7407 5557
Miraclefish Ltd.  Fax: +44 (20) 7378 8711
Studio 12 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
37 Tanner Street
London SE1 3LF
UNITED KINGDOM

Re: From whence cometh www.fnord.demon.co.uk?

[Andy Wardley]

On Jan 11,  2:10pm, dcross - David Cross wrote:
> The Mark Thomas usage came first. A couple of years ago, he wore t-shirts
> with weird slogans on for each show. A couple of them were 'Meeja Hor' and
> 'Mor Hor'. The first was obviously ripe for appropriation and lengthening (a
> kind of "Embrace and Extend").

I thought that might be the case.  A quick google only came up with a
couple of references, mostly related to MT.

> > [1] Although I would like to suggest a version of the site that
> > doesn't require various plugins.
>
> And, especially, a version that _doesn't_ insist on playing horrible midi
> files at you on every page :(

My annoyance is the pop-up window appearing on every page telling me to go
and install a plugin so that it can play horrible midi files at me on
every page.

I half heartedly contemplated installing the plugin, but it turns out
that I need to register with AOL/Netscape before I can download it.
And alas, the user name "FuckOffBastard" has already been taken. :-(


A

-- 
Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/

Re: From whence cometh www.fnord.demon.co.uk?

[Robin Houston]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:56:32PM +, Andy Wardley wrote:
> ... a cryptic Perl 3 liner (which I couldn't get to work) ...

See http://www.cypherspace.org/~adam/rsa/ for an explanation
of that particular cryptic 3-liner  :-)

 .robin.

-- 
Santa, oscillate my metallic soatnas!

Re: From whence cometh www.fnord.demon.co.uk?

[Andy Wardley]

On Jan 11,  3:54pm, Robin Houston wrote:
> See http://www.cypherspace.org/~adam/rsa/ for an explanation
> of that particular cryptic 3-liner  :-)

D'Oh!  I really could have guessed that if I bothered to engage my brain!

Curiosity satiated.  Ta.

A


-- 
Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/

Re: one liner

[Tony Bowden]

On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 07:38:04PM +, Dave Cross wrote:
> > Oh, and Amazon.com have the Learning Tk book at 90% off at the minute
> > if anyone's interested ..
> That'll explain the increase in sales that Nat noted the other day then :)

Well, I expected one of their "Oops, we made a pricing error, so we can't
sell you the large quantity of the book you requested, but hey, we're nice
people, so we'll let you have one of them cheap instead" emails.

But they claim to have shipped them all. At 90% off. Which I like.

Tony
-- 
-
 Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk
the woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep
-

RE: Pubs! (was: RE: Forthcoming Meetings - Summary)

[Jonathan Peterson]

> Camel. I don't know what it's like outside, but further
> investigation has
> revealed that there are others in Victoria and Waterloo. Has
> anyone tried
> them? Should we investigate further?
>

There's one up near Baker Street I've been too. Not a bad pub, but I'd not
have said it was a good london.pm venue, rather small and bar-ish.

Fwd: [lenzo@cs.cmu.edu: [yas] First CFP: YAPC 2001 in Montreal (en/fr)]

[Dave Cross]

- Forwarded message from kevin lenzo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

From: kevin lenzo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


  # CFP in English, followed by French (see below) #

Third North American YAPC: First Call for Participation

 Yet Another Society
  calls for your participation in

  YAPC 2001
  the Third North American
Yet Another Perl Conference

  http://yapc.org/America/ 

  McGill University,
   Montreal, Quebec 

   Wednesday through Friday
   June 13-15, 2001 

YAPC is a place for people to meet and talk about Perl -- where people
who've done interesting things, people who are working on the language
[lenzo@krank lenzo]$ # yapc/cfp_yapac_na_2001 
[lenzo@krank lenzo]$ 
[lenzo@krank lenzo]$ 
[lenzo@krank lenzo]$ 
[lenzo@krank lenzo]$ 
[lenzo@krank lenzo]$ 
[lenzo@krank lenzo]$ 
[lenzo@krank lenzo]$ 
[lenzo@krank lenzo]$ cat yapc/cfp_yapac_na_2001 

  # CFP in English, followed by French (see below) #

Third North American YAPC: First Call for Participation

 Yet Another Society
  calls for your participation in

  YAPC 2001
  the Third North American
Yet Another Perl Conference

  http://yapc.org/America/ 

  McGill University,
   Montreal, Quebec 

   Wednesday through Friday
   June 13-15, 2001 

YAPC is a place for people to meet and talk about Perl -- where people
who've done interesting things, people who are working on the language
itself, people who are using it daily, and people who are looking to
learn about it are all within arm's reach. Some of the great authors
and coders in the field will be on hand to discuss their work, as well
as the nature and direction of Perl itself.

Please join us for three days of listening and talking about Perl in
Montreal.

* Conference registration will be available by Feb. 1, 2001 at 
http://na-register.yapc.org/ 

* Dorm rooms will be available at the University (rates TBA); the dorm
  request information will be on the website and registration form.
  Registration Cost: CAD$125 (about USD$85) 

* We are looking for sponsors. Please contact Kevin Lenzo
  ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for information about how you can help support the
  Yet Another society and YAPC. Much of the necessary funding for YAPC
  comes from the generous donations of our sponsors.

* Submitted papers: 
Submission Deadline: May 1, 2001 

All topics are welcome. Here is a short list of subjects that might
be presented:

XML, CGI/Web, Interprocess Communication, GUIs (GTk, Tk), Natural
Language Processing, Interactive Perl, Agents, Perl as Glue,
Object-Oriented Perl, Scientific Applications, Guts, Internals, 
JAPHs, Perl Poetry, System Administration, DBI/DBD, Non-UNIX Perl, 
Security, Peer-to-Peer Communication, Your Favourite Topic.

Please submit your abstracts to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Authors are
requested to limit their abstracts to one or two paragraphs for
Lightning Talks, and to 300 words for other talks.

This year we will accept a number of types of talks: 

  * Lightning: 5 minutes 

The lightning talks were instigated by Mark-Jason Dominus last 
year in Pittsburgh, and were replicated with great success at 
the European YAPC in London.

Participants speak for no more than five minutes, with the use 
of conventional transparencies. Any use of data projector, etc, 
is discouraged, but allowed as long as the five minute time limit 
is maintained (set-up will be done as the clock ticks). The talk 
ends at the five-minute mark, regardless of whether or not the 
speaker has finished.

Any topic is allowed, and some have been fantastically humourous. 
Lightning talks are an excellent forum for first-time speakers.

  * Standard: 20 minutes 

A 'standard' talk is the preferred format. This is enough time 
to start a topic, introduce it with some pithy slides, and open 
up to later conversation.

  * Long and Extra-Long: 45 minutes, 90 minutes 

Long talks are reserved for experienced speakers covering large
topics. If you have an in-depth topic you would like to present 
in some detail, perhaps with considerable discussion, a Long or
Extra-Long talk may be the format of choice.

  * Tutorial: 3 hours + break (possibly in two sets) 

Half-day (or possibly full-day) tutorials. 

Please submit your abstracts to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>! 

--

Yet Another Society is a non-profit organization for the advancement
of collaborative efforts in computer and information sciences.  YAS
promotes symposia, teaching, and group

For all you nu meeja types

[Jonathan Peterson]

Found on UKNM mu meeja marketing list - credit to Tim Hayward for original
post, credit to me for reformatting to 72 cols.

-

No, hang about... I'm right up for it.


Let's start a whip round now for all those poor bastards who are going
to end up cannon fodder in the .Com Wars in the next year.

I reckon a 20ft high sculpture rising from the ruins of 'The Foundry'.
Laser cut from pure silicon and looking something like that monumental
bugger in Russia - The Factory Worker and the Collective Farm Girl. The
plinth will be made entirely of leased blueberry Imacs compressed into
an enormous slab under staggering heat and pressure. The male figure
will be resplendent in an ironic Mullet, a grey outfit looking not
unlike the paper jammies they give you during ECT and a kind of highly
complex trainer/sandal combination that defies definition anywhere
outside of a Tokyo teenager's bedroom. He'll, of course, be standing
next to a vintage BMX bike which, were he ever to actually ride it,
would make him look like one of Billy Smart's chimps.

His companion will have a Hoxton helmet, a sort of tabard like frock
made of two pieces of thick felt cut to shape with round ended scissors
and Copydexed around the edges (Joseph Beuys meets Blue Peter - Remember
when Valerie used to say 'It will cost a fraction of what it would in
the shops and it's every bit as good' - It was a lie then and it's a lie
now) some species of knitted, striped tights that are faintly redolent
of leg irons and footwear of such abiding ugliness that a mere glimpse
can throw you right off your Miso Blackened Cod Fillet.

Both will gaze idealistically toward the City with a look that speaks an
enlightened combination of greed, ignorance, arrogance and naiivety.

She'll hold the symbolic keys of their leased office, leased loft,
leased Audi TT whilst he carries aloft an everlasting flame in the form
of a burning sheaf of stock options

Re: For all you nu meeja types

[Greg McCarroll]

* Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Found on UKNM mu meeja marketing list - credit to Tim Hayward for original
> post, credit to me for reformatting to 72 cols.
> 

that was a truly beautiful image *sob*, however here's the good news 

 ^
/ \
|  \
 WE ARE  ---+  /\
  HERE  |  | \
|  /
 ^  * |
/ \  /
   -   \ |
  / \   / 
 -   \  |   
/ \/
   -
  / 
 -  
/   


[ if the above looks doesn't come out right go get yourself a decent
  mailer, i recommend mutt ]

the above is the technology adoption/prophitability curve that occurs
in all technology areas, you have an initial boom, then it goes bust.
then you have a very very steep and difficult period where the
technology gets hard ( visual basic / javascript programmers need
not apply ). but the actually maturity of the market, product and 
profitability is better.

its basically a case of lessons learnt and doing things right in
a disciplined fashion. 

greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Technical Meeting Agenda

[Dave Cross]

(Aren't we getting organised!)

Date: Thu 18th Jan
Time: 7:30 until we run out of stuff or get thirsty
Venue: State 51 (full details - and a map? - to follow)

We'll start with four or five lightning talks. Currently I've only got
Robin talking about Oulipo, but I'm sure we can come up with a couple
more between us.

There will be four 20 minute talks as follows:

SOAP - Greg
Pod::POM - Andy
Organising Sound with Perl - Alex
XML::Schema - Andy

Hopefully it'll all be over by 9:30 and we can all bugger off to the
nearest hostelry.

Cheers,

Dave...

-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Data Munging with Perl

Re: Technical Meeting Agenda

[Greg McCarroll]

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> XML::Schema - Andy
> 

can we finish this with some sort of SIG meeting on XML::Scheme
seeing as its all just ideas in the fevoured mind of Mr Wardley
so far, i'm sure there are the usual suspect who'd like to vent
their own opinions
 
> Hopefully it'll all be over by 9:30 and we can all bugger off to the
> nearest hostelry.

ack, if i'm going to speak i'll have to allow myself a one beer
ration


-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[David H. Adler]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 02:07:20PM +, Andy Wardley wrote:

> In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing
> list manager.

So why haven't you reimplemented it in perl?  :)

dha

-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
Good marriages work this way too, by the way.  I love my wife
differently than I did at the beginning, but I certainly don't love
her any less.- Larry Wall

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Greg McCarroll]

* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 02:07:20PM +, Andy Wardley wrote:
> 
> > In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing
> > list manager.
> 
> So why haven't you reimplemented it in perl?  :)
> 

 

because we are the perl community, all we ever do is talk or if you are
lucky work on personal projects



-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[David Hodgkinson]

"David H. Adler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 02:07:20PM +, Andy Wardley wrote:
> 
> > In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing
> > list manager.
> 
> So why haven't you reimplemented it in perl?  :)

As an XML and perl based application server?

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Paul Makepeace]

From: "Andy Wardley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing
> list manager.

Yes it is. Majordomo is the wrong choice for the 21st century.

Once again I'll offer to run the list on euro.pm.org but if y'all'd rather
debate stuff go ahead :-)

Paul

XML::Schema, YAPC::Europe, mod_perl, Camel Visit, !RANT!

[Greg McCarroll]

* David Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> "David H. Adler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 02:07:20PM +, Andy Wardley wrote:
> > 
> > > In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing
> > > list manager.
> > 
> > So why haven't you reimplemented it in perl?  :)
> 
> As an XML and perl based application server?
> 

don't you go thinking about that Dave, your pencilled in to delivering
this mod_perl solutions website you spoke about perviously ;-)

it seems to me at the last technical meeting we had a lot of enthusiasm
for this, and i'd guess we'll have a lot of enthusiasm for the XML::Schema
stuff this time - what we need to do is to form SIG's of london.pm to
drive these project forward

so as far as i see it - we have the following projects to be carried out
by london.pm and others ...

Caml (i'll leave that typo as it might get mjd excited) Visit  - David Cross
Completion of account creation for initial donators, 
 establishment of a administration committee and setting
 criteria for new donators - Jo + D.Cross
The Mod Perl Evangelist Site   - Dave Hodge..
The Final YAPC::Europe 2000 Site   - me + LB + JP

i'm pretty sure that these are the tasks we have at the minute as a 
group/community



ok the above seem's pretty anal but i get the feeling we need to 
add a bit of `` `` project management '' '' [1] to the group for 
the benefit of Perl - and this is a subject i'd love to see a
thread on



ok yes i know, this is whole mail has probably been purely been caused by
my lower alchohol levels for january, but i can't help it - goddamnit i
love perl and i love london.pm and i want london.pm to work to help perl

-greg

[1] double double quotes to indicate how much removed this is from the 
crap some of us suffer at work

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Greg McCarroll]

* Paul Makepeace ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> From: "Andy Wardley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing
> > list manager.
> 
> Yes it is. Majordomo is the wrong choice for the 21st century.
> 
> Once again I'll offer to run the list on euro.pm.org but if y'all'd rather
> debate stuff go ahead :-)


speaking from a personal opinion 

its a kind offer Paul, but it really should be run off the london server
(currently) penderel.state51.co.uk (thanks state51!) - we've invested
in the beatie and it would be a shame to see it not being used

for instance i've logged on and seen it with 0% CPU usage, why don't
we run at least the distributed net client on it - well the reason
is we need organisation of the running of it, jo's deserves a 
sainthood (or the female version of it) for what she has done so far
but we need to organise it properly - anyway see the other mail i sent
recently

thanks again for the offer!

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: the list is dead, long live the list

[Paul Makepeace]

From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Exactly.  I just can't handle bernsteinisms when there are good
alternatives
> available - exim (easy), postfix (secure), mailman.  I can only put up with
> his oddities when the alternative is worse.  djbdns vs bind.

Totally agreed. FWIW, exim + mailman is a slick, effective solution.

# apt-get install mailman

and implementing http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman.html

Paul

Re: XML::Schema, YAPC::Europe, mod_perl, Camel Visit, !RANT!

[Neil Ford]

[snip]
>
>so as far as i see it - we have the following projects to be carried out
>by london.pm and others ...
>
>Caml (i'll leave that typo as it might get mjd excited) Visit  - David Cross
>Completion of account creation for initial donators,
>  establishment of a administration committee and setting
>  criteria for new donators - Jo + D.Cross
>The Mod Perl Evangelist Site   - Dave Hodge..
>The Final YAPC::Europe 2000 Site   - me + LB + JP
>
So you won't be needing Natalie's help with the website then? Someone 
perhaps ought to tell her before she does much more work trying to 
get the schedules together.

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org