[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
I think that is a lovely group!--the lute is behind the front of the wave, so the mics will pick up less of the lute. The organ is placed at the front of the wave. __ From: hera caius caiush2...@yahoo.com To: lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, April 10, 2012 4:26:38 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II All instruments very authentic copies. Gamba and violin on gut, historical bows, baroque flute traversierre, 14 course theorbo in A on nylgut and copper and organo di legno (wood organ) One example: [1][1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emu E8y bClQindex0feature=plcp (recording was made in 2010) (the quality of the recording is not the best) --- On Tue, 4/10/12, David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II To: lute [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 12:58 AM If you use all original instruments, you will hear the lute fine. However, if you have thin bridges, heavy bows, thick bass bars, metal strings etc on the bowed strings then they will be easily twice as loud. And so all of the soft instruments will disappear. __ From: Mathias Roesel [2][5]mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: lute net [3][6]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 5:50:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. To get on or off this list see list information at [1][4][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8y bClQindex0feature=plcp 2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=[10]mathias.roe...@t-online.de 3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=[11]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8y 2. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net 3. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 6. mailto:Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8ybClQindex0feature=plcp 10. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 11. mailto:Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
All instruments very authentic copies. Gamba and violin on gut, historical bows, baroque flute traversierre, 14 course theorbo in A on nylgut and copper and organo di legno (wood organ) One example: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8y bClQindex0feature=plcp (recording was made in 2010) (the quality of the recording is not the best) --- On Tue, 4/10/12, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 12:58 AM If you use all original instruments, you will hear the lute fine. However, if you have thin bridges, heavy bows, thick bass bars, metal strings etc on the bowed strings then they will be easily twice as loud. And so all of the soft instruments will disappear. __ From: Mathias Roesel [2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: lute net [3]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 5:50:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. To get on or off this list see list information at [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8ybClQindex0feature=plcp 2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=mathias.roe...@t-online.de 3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
Hera, If I may be so bold, I might suggest playing closer to the bridge with the thumb far out in front of the fingers as the treatises and iconographic sources demonstrate. I feel that as pluckers in ensembles, we have to get past the idea of always making a nice sound. (not that you can't make a nice sound with this position.) I must admit, I have difficulty with this myself. Whenever I try to project the sound outside the group, I always wonder what my fellow ensemble members must think of the brash tone, fret buzz, etc. My mind tells me that it sounds OK in the audience but my heart tells me that it's just wrong, wrong, wrong. Chris __ From: hera caius caiush2...@yahoo.com; To: lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II Sent: Tue, Apr 10, 2012 11:26:38 AM All instruments very authentic copies. Gamba and violin on gut, historical bows, baroque flute traversierre, 14 course theorbo in A on nylgut and copper and organo di legno (wood organ) One example: [1][1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emu E8y bClQindex0feature=plcp (recording was made in 2010) (the quality of the recording is not the best) --- On Tue, 4/10/12, David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II To: lute [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 12:58 AM If you use all original instruments, you will hear the lute fine. However, if you have thin bridges, heavy bows, thick bass bars, metal strings etc on the bowed strings then they will be easily twice as loud. And so all of the soft instruments will disappear. __ From: Mathias Roesel [2][5]mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: lute net [3][6]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 5:50:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. To get on or off this list see list information at [1][4][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8y bClQindex0feature=plcp 2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=[10]mathias.roe...@t-online.de 3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=[11]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8y 2. javascript:return 3. javascript:return 4. javascript:return 5. javascript:return 6. javascript:return 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8ybClQindex0feature=plcp 10. javascript:return 11. javascript:return 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
I agree with Christopher, also as suggested by Mathias one could (probably should)break the chords. A close study of the way that for instance Esaias Reussner tells us about how to break chords gives us an idea and could provide a starting point. Lex Op 10 apr 2012, om 13:26 heeft hera caius het volgende geschreven: All instruments very authentic copies. Gamba and violin on gut, historical bows, baroque flute traversierre, 14 course theorbo in A on nylgut and copper and organo di legno (wood organ) One example: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8y bClQindex0feature=plcp (recording was made in 2010) (the quality of the recording is not the best) --- On Tue, 4/10/12, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 12:58 AM If you use all original instruments, you will hear the lute fine. However, if you have thin bridges, heavy bows, thick bass bars, metal strings etc on the bowed strings then they will be easily twice as loud. And so all of the soft instruments will disappear. __ From: Mathias Roesel [2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: lute net [3]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 5:50:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. To get on or off this list see list information at [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8ybClQindex0feature=plcp 2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=mathias.roe...@t-online.de 3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
I must say you seem to be right here, Chris. We lutenists (and I'm no exception) have this prejudice in favour of always producing a 'nice' sound. There's no reason to believe the old guys weren't as passionate and vigorous as ourselves. It's hard to believe they always 'flattered' the instrument and played gently as most of us do. I bet there were people like our flamenco players around who liked to dazzle with rhythmic fireworks, and to hell with producing a 'nice' tone. And, of course, there's evidence of theorbo players using nails to help them belt it out. On a related matter, it's my experience that the tiniest lutes (mandore's for example) would be the most prominent in a lute ensemble, though nothing like as impressive-looking as the bass instruments rumbling away below. I wouldn't be surprised if theorboes were included in ensembles as much for their impressive appearance as for the sound they made. A deep, powerful bass line, is, of course, a relatively modern phenomenon (organs excepted). Bill From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com To: hera caius caiush2...@yahoo.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2012, 13:07 Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II Hera, If I may be so bold, I might suggest playing closer to the bridge with the thumb far out in front of the fingers as the treatises and iconographic sources demonstrate. I feel that as pluckers in ensembles, we have to get past the idea of always making a nice sound. (not that you can't make a nice sound with this position.) I must admit, I have difficulty with this myself. Whenever I try to project the sound outside the group, I always wonder what my fellow ensemble members must think of the brash tone, fret buzz, etc. My mind tells me that it sounds OK in the audience but my heart tells me that it's just wrong, wrong, wrong. Chris __ From: hera caius [1]caiush2...@yahoo.com; To: lute net [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II Sent: Tue, Apr 10, 2012 11:26:38 AM All instruments very authentic copies. Gamba and violin on gut, historical bows, baroque flute traversierre, 14 course theorbo in A on nylgut and copper and organo di legno (wood organ) One example: [1][1][3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1 emu E8y bClQindex0feature=plcp (recording was made in 2010) (the quality of the recording is not the best) --- On Tue, 4/10/12, David Tayler [2][4]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler [3][5]vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II To: lute [4][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 12:58 AM If you use all original instruments, you will hear the lute fine. However, if you have thin bridges, heavy bows, thick bass bars, metal strings etc on the bowed strings then they will be easily twice as loud. And so all of the soft instruments will disappear. __ From: Mathias Roesel [2][5][7]mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: lute net [3][6][8]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 5:50:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. To get on or off this list see list information at [1][4][7][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5][8][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [9][11]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1em uE8y bClQindex0feature=plcp 2
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
Some of the responses to the Harmoniis video might indicate that there was some problem with the balance. The continuo balance is good and I could hear the theorbo just fine. On Apr 10, 2012, at 4:26 AM, hera caius wrote: All instruments very authentic copies. Gamba and violin on gut, historical bows, baroque flute traversierre, 14 course theorbo in A on nylgut and copper and organo di legno (wood organ) One example: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8y bClQindex0feature=plcp (recording was made in 2010) (the quality of the recording is not the best) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. Sorry for sending too quickly. Actually, I meant to add a quote before sending: Heinrich Albert (1604-51) warned against playing continuo like chopping up cabbage, i.e. full chords on each and every bass note (Arien, vol. 1, 1638, preface). He elaborated that players of plucked instruments with their quickly fading tones should repeat notes so as to make the parts discernible (Arien, vol. 2, preface). Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
That makes sense, Mathias. During the big-band era, the (acoustic) guitar was considered to be part of the rhythm section of the orchestra. Bill From: Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: 'lute net' Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012, 14:01 Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. Sorry for sending too quickly. Actually, I meant to add a quote before sending: Heinrich Albert (1604-51) warned against playing continuo like chopping up cabbage, i.e. full chords on each and every bass note (Arien, vol. 1, 1638, preface). He elaborated that players of plucked instruments with their quickly fading tones should repeat notes so as to make the parts discernible (Arien, vol. 2, preface). Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
If you use all original instruments, you will hear the lute fine. However, if you have thin bridges, heavy bows, thick bass bars, metal strings etc on the bowed strings then they will be easily twice as loud. And so all of the soft instruments will disappear. __ From: Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: lute net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 5:50:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
David, have you met makers who will build a lute to size? Considering my size - and because I first began playing on a Hauser-copy of a lute - the 7 or 8 course instruments I've played all seem a bit small. I don't mean string length, but body size. Ned On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:58 PM, David Tayler wrote: If you use all original instruments, you will hear the lute fine. However, if you have thin bridges, heavy bows, thick bass bars, metal strings etc on the bowed strings then they will be easily twice as loud. And so all of the soft instruments will disappear. __ From: Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: lute net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 5:50:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na... There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably, but the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols, flutes or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or note that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is a major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with that, there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in the way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages. To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
