[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-12 Thread spiffys84121 
   A worn fret is not the same thing as a loose fret.

   Sterling

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 
   From: Edward Martin <edvihuel...@gmail.com>
   Date: 3/12/18 7:51 PM (GMT-07:00)
   To: spiffys84121 <spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Cc: John Lenti <johnle...@hotmail.com>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

   One factor is that new frets sound great. That is why I change frets.
   Sent from my iPhone
   > On Mar 12, 2018, at 8:07 PM, spiffys84121
   <spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   >
   >   If you're smart enough to -tie- frets, you're smart enough to
   -tighten-
   >   frets. It takes less time to do than describe. Seriously-- why are
   >   people --replacing-- loose frets??
   >
   >   Baffled,
   >
   >   Sterling
   >
   >   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
   >
   >    Original message 
   >   From: John Lenti <johnle...@hotmail.com>
   >   Date: 3/12/18 1:13 AM (GMT-07:00)
   >   To: howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
   >
   >  I'm a little reluctant to share something that might seem almost
   >  immoral, but what the hell, I make my living playing the lute
   and I
   >   tie
   >  a lot of frets, so I'll chip in here: when I go, as I do almost
   >   weekly,
   >  from my home in Seattle, where the weather is always perfect for
   >  gut-strung-and-fretted instruments, to a place like the
   mountains of
   >  Montana or the desert of Tucson and the humidity is 1% and my
   frets
   >  (usually it's 1, 5, and 6 on my main touring instrument) start
   >   slipping
   >  and sliding around, and I don't feel like re-fretting, I tape
   them
   >   down
   >  with masking tape.
   >  Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
   >
   __
   >  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   >   behalf
   >      of howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
   >  Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 9:01:32 AM
   >  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
   >> On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   >  wrote:
   >>
   >> My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They
   >   are
   >>  metal.
   >  I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You
   must
   >   have
   >  really strong fingers.
   >  To get on or off this list see list information at
   >
   >
   [2]https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.c
   >
   s.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html%7C01%7C%7Cb2e0
   >
   >
   482fe1c54b991ec608d585df2c7f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0
   >
   >
   %7C636562115923455431=IZZ6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA
   >  %3D=0
   >  --
   >   References
   >  1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkIdU0986
   >  2.
   >
   https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http://www.cs.dartm
   >
   outh.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html|01||b2e0482fe1c54b991ec608d585
   >
   df2c7f|84df9e7fe9f640afb435|1|0|636562115923455431=IZ
   >   Z6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA==0
   >

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-12 Thread spiffys84121 
   A worn fret is not the same thing as a loose fret.

   Sterling

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 
   From: Edward Martin <edvihuel...@gmail.com>
   Date: 3/12/18 7:51 PM (GMT-07:00)
   To: spiffys84121 <spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Cc: John Lenti <johnle...@hotmail.com>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

   One factor is that new frets sound great. That is why I change frets.
   Sent from my iPhone
   > On Mar 12, 2018, at 8:07 PM, spiffys84121
   <spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   >
   >   If you're smart enough to -tie- frets, you're smart enough to
   -tighten-
   >   frets. It takes less time to do than describe. Seriously-- why are
   >   people --replacing-- loose frets??
   >
   >   Baffled,
   >
   >   Sterling
   >
   >   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
   >
   >    Original message 
   >   From: John Lenti <johnle...@hotmail.com>
   >   Date: 3/12/18 1:13 AM (GMT-07:00)
   >   To: howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
   >
   >  I'm a little reluctant to share something that might seem almost
   >  immoral, but what the hell, I make my living playing the lute
   and I
   >   tie
   >  a lot of frets, so I'll chip in here: when I go, as I do almost
   >   weekly,
   >  from my home in Seattle, where the weather is always perfect for
   >  gut-strung-and-fretted instruments, to a place like the
   mountains of
   >  Montana or the desert of Tucson and the humidity is 1% and my
   frets
   >  (usually it's 1, 5, and 6 on my main touring instrument) start
   >   slipping
   >  and sliding around, and I don't feel like re-fretting, I tape
   them
   >   down
   >  with masking tape.
   >  Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
   >
   __
   >  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   >   behalf
   >      of howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
   >  Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 9:01:32 AM
   >  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
   >> On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   >  wrote:
   >>
   >> My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They
   >   are
   >>  metal.
   >  I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You
   must
   >   have
   >  really strong fingers.
   >  To get on or off this list see list information at
   >
   >
   [2]https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.c
   >
   s.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html%7C01%7C%7Cb2e0
   >
   >
   482fe1c54b991ec608d585df2c7f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0
   >
   >
   %7C636562115923455431=IZZ6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA
   >  %3D=0
   >  --
   >   References
   >  1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkIdU0986
   >  2.
   >
   https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http://www.cs.dartm
   >
   outh.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html|01||b2e0482fe1c54b991ec608d585
   >
   df2c7f|84df9e7fe9f640afb435|1|0|636562115923455431=IZ
   >   Z6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA==0
   >

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-12 Thread Edward Martin 
One factor is that new frets sound great. That is why I change frets. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 12, 2018, at 8:07 PM, spiffys84121 <spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu> 
> wrote:
> 
>   If you're smart enough to -tie- frets, you're smart enough to -tighten-
>   frets. It takes less time to do than describe. Seriously-- why are
>   people --replacing-- loose frets??
> 
>   Baffled,
> 
>   Sterling
> 
>   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> 
>    Original message 
>   From: John Lenti <johnle...@hotmail.com>
>   Date: 3/12/18 1:13 AM (GMT-07:00)
>   To: howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
> 
>  I'm a little reluctant to share something that might seem almost
>  immoral, but what the hell, I make my living playing the lute and I
>   tie
>  a lot of frets, so I'll chip in here: when I go, as I do almost
>   weekly,
>  from my home in Seattle, where the weather is always perfect for
>  gut-strung-and-fretted instruments, to a place like the mountains of
>  Montana or the desert of Tucson and the humidity is 1% and my frets
>  (usually it's 1, 5, and 6 on my main touring instrument) start
>   slipping
>  and sliding around, and I don't feel like re-fretting, I tape them
>   down
>  with masking tape.
>  Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
>__
>  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
>   behalf
>  of howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
>  Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 9:01:32 AM
>  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>  wrote:
>> 
>> My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They
>   are
>>  metal.
>  I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must
>   have
>  really strong fingers.
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
> 
>   [2]https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.c
>  s.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html%7C01%7C%7Cb2e0
> 
>   482fe1c54b991ec608d585df2c7f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0
> 
>   %7C636562115923455431=IZZ6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA
>  %3D=0
>  --
>   References
>  1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkIdU0986
>  2.
>   https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http://www.cs.dartm
>   outh.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html|01||b2e0482fe1c54b991ec608d585
>   df2c7f|84df9e7fe9f640afb435|1|0|636562115923455431=IZ
>   Z6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA==0
>

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-12 Thread spiffys84121 
   If you're smart enough to -tie- frets, you're smart enough to -tighten-
   frets. It takes less time to do than describe. Seriously-- why are
   people --replacing-- loose frets??

   Baffled,

   Sterling

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 
   From: John Lenti <johnle...@hotmail.com>
   Date: 3/12/18 1:13 AM (GMT-07:00)
   To: howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

  I'm a little reluctant to share something that might seem almost
  immoral, but what the hell, I make my living playing the lute and I
   tie
  a lot of frets, so I'll chip in here: when I go, as I do almost
   weekly,
  from my home in Seattle, where the weather is always perfect for
  gut-strung-and-fretted instruments, to a place like the mountains of
  Montana or the desert of Tucson and the humidity is 1% and my frets
  (usually it's 1, 5, and 6 on my main touring instrument) start
   slipping
  and sliding around, and I don't feel like re-fretting, I tape them
   down
  with masking tape.
  Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
__
  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf
  of howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
  Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 9:01:32 AM
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
  > On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu>
  wrote:
  >
  >  My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They
   are
  >   metal.
  I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must
   have
  really strong fingers.
  To get on or off this list see list information at

   [2]https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.c
  s.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html%7C01%7C%7Cb2e0

   482fe1c54b991ec608d585df2c7f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0

   %7C636562115923455431=IZZ6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA
  %3D=0
  --
   References
  1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkIdU0986
  2.
   https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http://www.cs.dartm
   outh.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html|01||b2e0482fe1c54b991ec608d585
   df2c7f|84df9e7fe9f640afb435|1|0|636562115923455431=IZ
   Z6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA==0

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-12 Thread Braig, Eugene 
I assume you're talking about fluorocarbon.  If so, while it's pretty pliable 
and easy to knot, it's also relatively hard.  Its knots can gouge into the wood 
of a neck with enough slippage over great lengths of time.

Best,
Eugene


-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
George Arndt
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 5:06 PM
To: John Lenti; howard posner; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; George Arndt
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

   Hello John and everyone.

   I use masking tape on the back of my lute neck to hold loose gut frets.
   It works better than notching the edge of the fingerboard, putting glue
   on gut fret material, or inserting tiny wedges. Then I switched to
   salt-water fishing line for strings and found it works just as well for
   frets. I have double loops frets on my barque lute and single loop
   frets on my renaissance lutes and arch lute. So far I have only
   experienced first-frets slipping with fishing line frets.  The
   advantage is fishing line stretches when I hold both ends of the
   knotted line with pliers to pull both ways with force. I ruined more
   than a few pieces of wet gut fret material trying to pull a knot. I tie
   frets one position low and slide them up the neck for added tension. If
   the knot breaks it costs less then a penny to cut and tie a new fret.

   I also discovered masking tape works well to deal with loose and
   sticking pegs. I use a single wrap on pegs and trim the edges of the
   tape so it does not show outside of the peg box bore hole. I use 3-M
   blue painter's trim tape with very low tac. It does not leave a residue
   on the sticky side, it compresses just enough to snug the peg, and the
   exterior tape surface gives the right friction to turn a tight peg. If
   you suffer from slipping pegs, hold the peg box close to a bright light
   and looks for light leaking between a peg and the edge of the bore,
   when you see this try maksing tape. Then let us all know how it works
   for you.

   Thanks,

   George
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
   of John Lenti <johnle...@hotmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 2:13 AM
   To: howard posner; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

  I’m a little reluctant to share something that might seem almost
  immoral, but what the hell, I make my living playing the lute and I
   tie
  a lot of frets, so I’ll chip in here: when I go, as I do almost
   weekly,
  from my home in Seattle, where the weather is always perfect for
  gut-strung-and-fretted instruments, to a place like the mountains of
  Montana or the desert of Tucson and the humidity is 1% and my frets
  (usually it’s 1, 5, and 6 on my main touring instrument) start
   slipping
  and sliding around, and I don’t feel like re-fretting, I tape them
   down
  with masking tape.
  Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
__
  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf
  of howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
  Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 9:01:32 AM
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
  > On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu>
  wrote:
  >
  >  My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They
   are
  >   metal.
  I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must
   have
  really strong fingers.
  To get on or off this list see list information at

   [2]https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.c

   s.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7Cb2e0

   482fe1c54b991ec608d585df2c7f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0

   %7C636562115923455431=IZZ6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA
  %3D=0
  --
   References
  1. [1]https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
  2.
   [2]https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http://www.cs.da
   rtmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html=02|01||b2e0482fe1c54b991ec6
   08d585df2c7f|84df9e7fe9f640afb435|1|0|636562115923455431
   ata=IZZ6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA==0

   --

References

   1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
   2. 
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html=02|01||b2e0482fe1c54b991ec608d585df2c7f|84df9e7fe9f640afb435|1|0|636562115923455431=IZZ6Zu8XFrfsZCfWdhf7SHgTi7418M8H6c6WDYZPwhA==0

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-10 Thread Jo . Luedtke 
‎I don't know what it consists of. The stuff comes from a supplier of varnish 
components and ready-made varnishes in Franconia and is simply called 
"Saitenoel" (string oil). From the smell I suspect that it contains at least 
some percent of bisti.

Best

Joachim


Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone.
  Originalnachricht  
Von: Dan Winheld
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. März 2018 18:18
An: jo.lued...@t-online.de; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Antwort an: Dan Winheld
Betreff: Re: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets


What is string oil?
I remember liquid vitamin E and almond oil being recommended many years 
ago, but never heard of actual "string oil".
Dan

On 3/10/2018 6:25 AM, jo.lued...@t-online.de wrote:
> ‎Dear list,
>
> I don't use water, but I wipe a drop of string oil over each length of fret 
> gut I am going to put on the neck of whatever lute or guitar instrument‎.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Joachim
>
> Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone.
>    Originalnachricht
> Von: fournierbru
> Gesendet: Samstag, 10. März 2018 15:00
> An: l...@reasonablefax.com; howardpos...@ca.rr.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
>
>
> I actually never thought of it...but it is a good idea as they would
> tighten up upon drying.
>
> Bruno
>
> Envoyé de mon appareil Samsung de Bell via le réseau le plus vaste au
> pays.
>
>  Message d'origine 
> De : l...@reasonablefax.com
> Date : 18-03-09 3:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
> À : howardpos...@ca.rr.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Objet : [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
>
> Does anyone else dampen their fret gut with water before tying them? I
> dip my fingers into water and run the string through them. Then let
> them sit a little to soften just a tad. If needed,  I rewet  the part
> that is going to make the knot so that it is flexible. I tie the fret
> on below where it is going to end up, and allow it to dry before
> pulling into position.
> I don't play lute enough to change frets much, but I have found the
> wetting to be useful.
> -Anne Burns
> On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 09:01:32 -0800, howard posner  wrote:
> > On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly  wrote:
> >
> >  My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They are
> >   metal.
> I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must have
> really strong fingers.
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
>

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-10 Thread Dan Winheld 

What is string oil?
I remember liquid vitamin E and almond oil being recommended many years 
ago, but never heard of actual "string oil".

Dan

On 3/10/2018 6:25 AM, jo.lued...@t-online.de wrote:

‎Dear list,

I don't use water, but I wipe a drop of string oil over each length of fret gut 
I am going to put on the neck of whatever lute or guitar instrument‎.

Greetings,

Joachim

Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone.
   Originalnachricht
Von: fournierbru
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. März 2018 15:00
An: l...@reasonablefax.com; howardpos...@ca.rr.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets


I actually never thought of it...but it is a good idea as they would
tighten up upon drying.

Bruno

Envoyé de mon appareil Samsung de Bell via le réseau le plus vaste au
pays.

 Message d'origine 
De : l...@reasonablefax.com
Date : 18-03-09 3:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
À : howardpos...@ca.rr.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
    Objet : [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

Does anyone else dampen their fret gut with water before tying them? I
dip my fingers into water and run the string through them. Then let
them sit a little to soften just a tad. If needed,  I rewet  the part
that is going to make the knot so that it is flexible. I tie the fret
on below where it is going to end up, and allow it to dry before
pulling into position.
I don't play lute enough to change frets much, but I have found the
wetting to be useful.
-Anne Burns
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 09:01:32 -0800, howard posner  wrote:
> On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly  wrote:
>
>  My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They are
>   metal.
I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must have
really strong fingers.
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-10 Thread Jo . Luedtke 
‎Dear list,

I don't use water, but I wipe a drop of string oil over each length of fret gut 
I am going to put on the neck of whatever lute or guitar instrument‎.

Greetings,

Joachim

Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone.
  Originalnachricht  
Von: fournierbru
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. März 2018 15:00
An: l...@reasonablefax.com; howardpos...@ca.rr.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets


   I actually never thought of it...but it is a good idea as they would
   tighten up upon drying.

   Bruno

   Envoyé de mon appareil Samsung de Bell via le réseau le plus vaste au
   pays.

    Message d'origine 
   De : l...@reasonablefax.com
   Date : 18-03-09 3:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
   À : howardpos...@ca.rr.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

   Does anyone else dampen their fret gut with water before tying them? I
   dip my fingers into water and run the string through them. Then let
   them sit a little to soften just a tad. If needed,  I rewet  the part
   that is going to make the knot so that it is flexible. I tie the fret
   on below where it is going to end up, and allow it to dry before
   pulling into position.
   I don't play lute enough to change frets much, but I have found the
   wetting to be useful.
   -Anne Burns
   On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 09:01:32 -0800, howard posner  wrote:
   > On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly  wrote:
   >
   >  My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They are
   >   metal.
   I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must have
   really strong fingers.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-10 Thread fournierbru 
   I actually never thought of it...but it is a good idea as they would
   tighten up upon drying.

   Bruno

   Envoyé de mon appareil Samsung de Bell via le réseau le plus vaste au
   pays.

    Message d'origine 
   De : l...@reasonablefax.com
   Date : 18-03-09 3:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
   À : howardpos...@ca.rr.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

   Does anyone else dampen their fret gut with water before tying them? I
   dip my fingers into water and run the string through them. Then let
   them sit a little to soften just a tad. If needed,  I rewet  the part
   that is going to make the knot so that it is flexible. I tie the fret
   on below where it is going to end up, and allow it to dry before
   pulling into position.
   I don't play lute enough to change frets much, but I have found the
   wetting to be useful.
   -Anne Burns
   On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 09:01:32 -0800, howard posner  wrote:
   > On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly  wrote:
   >
   >  My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They are
   >   metal.
   I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must have
   really strong fingers.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread lsa 
Does anyone else dampen their fret gut with water before tying them? I dip my 
fingers into water and run the string through them. Then let them sit a little 
to soften just a tad. If needed,  I rewet  the part that is going to make the 
knot so that it is flexible. I tie the fret on below where it is going to end 
up, and allow it to dry before pulling into position.

I don't play lute enough to change frets much, but I have found the wetting to 
be useful.

-Anne Burns




On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 09:01:32 -0800, howard posner  wrote:

> On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly  wrote:
> 
>  My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They are
>   metal.

I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must have really 
strong fingers.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread howard posner 
> On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly  wrote:
> 
>  My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They are
>   metal.

I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must have really 
strong fingers.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread Martyn Hodgson 
   Indeed Chris: Mace reports the usual common practice but , as you say,
   he employs a single loop. This was also discussed earlier (when this
   subject was previously aired some years ago). In particular, I find the
   double fret beds in so that one loop takes the wear and the other
   provides the clean break. If Mace's experience was so beneficial, I
   wonder why the vast majority of historic iconography shows double
   loops?...
   MH
 __

   From: Christopher Wilke <chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   To: Christopher Wilke <chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Martyn Hodgson
   <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; Matthew Daillie
   <dail...@club-internet.fr>; "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
   <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 14:07
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
 And of course, my experience was also born out by Mace in 1676 who
 gives instructions for double frets, but actually recommends using a
 single fret, because,
 "...it is not only sooner done, and with a shorter string; but
   chiefly,
 it does (assuredly) cause a clearer sound from the string stopt;
   which
 must needs be granted, if it be considered, that the string lying
   upon
 this only round single fret, cannot but speak clear, when as (on the
 contrary) it lying upon two, (as in the double fret it does) it
   cannot
 be thought to speak so clear, because, that although it lie hard and
 close, upon the uppermost of the two, next the finger, yet it cannot
 lie so close and hard, upon the undermost; so that it must needs fuzz
   a
 little..."
 Chris
 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 On Friday, March 9, 2018, 8:52 AM, Christopher Wilke
 <[1]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   Martyn,
   I've actually had the opposite experience with the durability of
 double
   frets. Their practical lifespan isn't as long as single frets
 precisely
   because the side closest to the bridge takes the wear, leaving an
   uneven relation to the bridge side. This means they start buzzing
 very
   soon after being put on. (I used double frets on one of my albums.
 The
   track running order differed from the order in which they were
   recorded, but you can tell in exactly what sequence the pieces were
   done by the sound of the frets. By the end of the session, the
 fingered
   bass notes started growling like a fretless bass. And that was only
   over a few days of heavy playing!) Single frets, by comparison, can
   theoretically last until the "bridge side" is the fret above it.
   Another obvious disadvantage to double frets - they of course take
   up
   twice the fret gut. I'm not so deep in the pockets that I can
   afford
 to
   fret twice the number of instruments I actually own!
   I suspect double frets may have made more sense with historical
   gut,
   which was obviously more pliable and probably softer and more
   elastic
   than what we have available today.
   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   On Friday, March 9, 2018, 7:10 AM, Martyn Hodgson
   <[2][2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
 I'm pleased to hear it. Another advantage of double frets is
   that,
 being twice the length, the their elastic deformation and
   recovery
 is
 physically superior to a single: in short, you can move them
   around
 more (if you're that way inclined) without them becoming as loose
 as
   a
 single loop would.
 A yet further advantage is that the loop closer to the nut takes
 most
 of the wear leaving the fret loop closer to the bridge with a
 cleaner
 take-off for a longer period than a wholly single loop.
 rgds
 MH
 __
 From: Matthew Daillie <[2][3][3]dail...@club-internet.fr>
 To: "[3][4][4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
   <[4][5][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 11:33
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
 I've never had issues with single knots.
 Best,
 Matthew
 On 09/03/2018 11:39, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
 >  Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are
 employed
 >(something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and
 easier
   to
 tie
 >firmly, historical double fret loops
 To get on or off this list see list information at

   [1][5][6][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1.
   [6][7][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --
 References
   1. [8][8]https://overview

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread Martyn Hodgson 
   Chris,
   Well, my experience is that I recounted earlier - perhaps, as you
   suggest, it's to do with the quality of the gut and I've been lucky
   with most of my my fret gut supplies, since, you're right, some
   supplies are better than others.  If possible I also try and use old
   playing strings (not frayed bits obviously) and, I suppose, this is
   what the 'Old Ones' did and so perhaps the economics of gut frets was
   not to unmanageable.
   Incidentally, I'm not sure if old lute gut was softer than modern.
   Certainly from pictures etc it generally seems to be more pliable as
   Mimmo Peruffo, amongst others, has pointed out but that's not the same
   thing necessarily.
   MH
 __

   From: Christopher Wilke <chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   To: Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; Matthew Daillie
   <dail...@club-internet.fr>; "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
   <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 13:49
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
   Martyn,
   I've actually had the opposite experience with the durability of double
   frets. Their practical lifespan isn't as long as single frets precisely
   because the side closest to the bridge takes the wear, leaving an
   uneven relation to the bridge side. This means they start buzzing very
   soon after being put on. (I used double frets on one of my albums. The
   track running order differed from the order in which they were
   recorded, but you can tell in exactly what sequence the pieces were
   done by the sound of the frets. By the end of the session, the fingered
   bass notes started growling like a fretless bass. And that was only
   over a few days of heavy playing!) Single frets, by comparison, can
   theoretically last until the "bridge side" is the fret above it.
   Another obvious disadvantage to double frets - they of course take up
   twice the fret gut. I'm not so deep in the pockets that I can afford to
   fret twice the number of instruments I actually own!
   I suspect double frets may have made more sense with historical gut,
   which was obviously more pliable and probably softer and more elastic
   than what we have available today.
   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   On Friday, March 9, 2018, 7:10 AM, Martyn Hodgson
   <hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 I'm pleased to hear it. Another advantage of double frets is that,

 being twice the length, the their elastic deformation and recovery is

 physically superior to a single: in short, you can move them around

 more (if you're that way inclined) without them becoming as loose as
   a

 single loop would.

 A yet further advantage is that the loop closer to the nut takes most

 of the wear leaving the fret loop closer to the bridge with a cleaner

 take-off for a longer period than a wholly single loop.

 rgds

 MH

   __

 From: Matthew Daillie <[2]dail...@club-internet.fr>

 To: "[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

 Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 11:33

 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

 I've never had issues with single knots.

 Best,

 Matthew

 On 09/03/2018 11:39, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

 >  Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are employed

 >(something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and easier
   to

 tie

 >firmly, historical double fret loops

 To get on or off this list see list information at

 [1][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 --

   References

 1. [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   2. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread John Mardinly 
   My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They are
   metal.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Mar 9, 2018, at 6:48 AM, Christopher Wilke
   <[1]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Martyn,
 I've actually had the opposite experience with the durability of
   double
 frets. Their practical lifespan isn't as long as single frets
   precisely
 because the side closest to the bridge takes the wear, leaving an
 uneven relation to the bridge side. This means they start buzzing
   very
 soon after being put on. (I used double frets on one of my albums.
   The
 track running order differed from the order in which they were
 recorded, but you can tell in exactly what sequence the pieces were
 done by the sound of the frets. By the end of the session, the
   fingered
 bass notes started growling like a fretless bass. And that was only
 over a few days of heavy playing!) Single frets, by comparison, can
 theoretically last until the "bridge side" is the fret above it.
 Another obvious disadvantage to double frets - they of course take up
 twice the fret gut. I'm not so deep in the pockets that I can afford
   to
 fret twice the number of instruments I actually own!
 I suspect double frets may have made more sense with historical gut,
 which was obviously more pliable and probably softer and more elastic
 than what we have available today.
 Chris
 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 On Friday, March 9, 2018, 7:10 AM, Martyn Hodgson
 <[2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   I'm pleased to hear it. Another advantage of double frets is that,
   being twice the length, the their elastic deformation and recovery
   is
   physically superior to a single: in short, you can move them around
   more (if you're that way inclined) without them becoming as loose
   as
 a
   single loop would.
   A yet further advantage is that the loop closer to the nut takes
   most
   of the wear leaving the fret loop closer to the bridge with a
   cleaner
   take-off for a longer period than a wholly single loop.
   rgds
   MH
 _
   _
   From: Matthew Daillie <[2][3]dail...@club-internet.fr>
   To: "[3][4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[4][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 11:33
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
   I've never had issues with single knots.
   Best,
   Matthew
   On 09/03/2018 11:39, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

 Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are employed

   (something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and easier

 to
   tie

   firmly, historical double fret loops

   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1][5][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs
   .dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SR
   Qusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBR
   t90E=7mMcRogksiKY0007ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=SlLsze13jVrklD6dGd
   aTajMI2w_p8KdnYINSWKhnwJA=
   --
 References
   1.
   [6][7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
   uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY
   R0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=
   7mMcRogksiKY0007ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=SlLsze13jVrklD6dGdaTajMI2
   w_p8KdnYINSWKhnwJA=
 --
   References
 1.
   [8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__overview.mail.y
   ahoo.com_-3F.src-3DiOS=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuK
   y6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=7mMcRogksiKY0007
   ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=H8C40-taYnyGtUKgU5MbGe06j9u1e4VRrejUi0adF
   xk=
 2. [9]mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
 3. [10]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 4. [11]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 5.
   [12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=7m
   McRogksiKY0007ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=SlLsze13jVrklD6dGdaTajMI2w_
   p8KdnYINSWKhnwJA=
 6.
   [13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=7m
   McRogksiKY0007ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=SlLsze13jVrklD6dGdaTajMI2w_
   p8KdnYINSWKhnwJA=

   --

References

   1. mailto:chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. mailto:hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread Matthew Daillie 

On 09/03/2018 14:06, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
A substitute would be highly welcome. I have thought about soaking 
parcel string in hide glue for frets.
Has anyone tried something that? 


Aquila have started producing nylgut frets. I haven't tried them as I am 
quite happy with gut.


Best,

Matthew



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread Christopher Wilke 
   And of course, my experience was also born out by Mace in 1676 who
   gives instructions for double frets, but actually recommends using a
   single fret, because,

   "...it is not only sooner done, and with a shorter string; but chiefly,
   it does (assuredly) cause a clearer sound from the string stopt; which
   must needs be granted, if it be considered, that the string lying upon
   this only round single fret, cannot but speak clear, when as (on the
   contrary) it lying upon two, (as in the double fret it does) it cannot
   be thought to speak so clear, because, that although it lie hard and
   close, upon the uppermost of the two, next the finger, yet it cannot
   lie so close and hard, upon the undermost; so that it must needs fuzz a
   little..."
   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   On Friday, March 9, 2018, 8:52 AM, Christopher Wilke
   <chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Martyn,

 I've actually had the opposite experience with the durability of
   double

 frets. Their practical lifespan isn't as long as single frets
   precisely

 because the side closest to the bridge takes the wear, leaving an

 uneven relation to the bridge side. This means they start buzzing
   very

 soon after being put on. (I used double frets on one of my albums.
   The

 track running order differed from the order in which they were

 recorded, but you can tell in exactly what sequence the pieces were

 done by the sound of the frets. By the end of the session, the
   fingered

 bass notes started growling like a fretless bass. And that was only

 over a few days of heavy playing!) Single frets, by comparison, can

 theoretically last until the "bridge side" is the fret above it.

 Another obvious disadvantage to double frets - they of course take up

 twice the fret gut. I'm not so deep in the pockets that I can afford
   to

 fret twice the number of instruments I actually own!

 I suspect double frets may have made more sense with historical gut,

 which was obviously more pliable and probably softer and more elastic

 than what we have available today.

 Chris

 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

 On Friday, March 9, 2018, 7:10 AM, Martyn Hodgson

 <[2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

   I'm pleased to hear it. Another advantage of double frets is that,

   being twice the length, the their elastic deformation and recovery
   is

   physically superior to a single: in short, you can move them around

   more (if you're that way inclined) without them becoming as loose
   as

 a

   single loop would.

   A yet further advantage is that the loop closer to the nut takes
   most

   of the wear leaving the fret loop closer to the bridge with a
   cleaner

   take-off for a longer period than a wholly single loop.

   rgds

   MH


   __

   From: Matthew Daillie <[2][3]dail...@club-internet.fr>

   To: "[3][4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[4][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

   Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 11:33

   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

   I've never had issues with single knots.

   Best,

   Matthew

   On 09/03/2018 11:39, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

   >  Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are
   employed

   >(something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and
   easier

 to

   tie

   >firmly, historical double fret loops

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [1][5][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

 References

   1. [6][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 --

   References

 1. [8]https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS

 2. mailto:[9]dail...@club-internet.fr

 3. mailto:[10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

 4. mailto:[11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

 5. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 6. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   2. mailto:hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   8. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   9. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
  10. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  11. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread Christopher Wilke 
   Martyn,

   I've actually had the opposite experience with the durability of double
   frets. Their practical lifespan isn't as long as single frets precisely
   because the side closest to the bridge takes the wear, leaving an
   uneven relation to the bridge side. This means they start buzzing very
   soon after being put on. (I used double frets on one of my albums. The
   track running order differed from the order in which they were
   recorded, but you can tell in exactly what sequence the pieces were
   done by the sound of the frets. By the end of the session, the fingered
   bass notes started growling like a fretless bass. And that was only
   over a few days of heavy playing!) Single frets, by comparison, can
   theoretically last until the "bridge side" is the fret above it.

   Another obvious disadvantage to double frets - they of course take up
   twice the fret gut. I'm not so deep in the pockets that I can afford to
   fret twice the number of instruments I actually own!

   I suspect double frets may have made more sense with historical gut,
   which was obviously more pliable and probably softer and more elastic
   than what we have available today.

   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   On Friday, March 9, 2018, 7:10 AM, Martyn Hodgson
   <hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 I'm pleased to hear it. Another advantage of double frets is that,

 being twice the length, the their elastic deformation and recovery is

 physically superior to a single: in short, you can move them around

 more (if you're that way inclined) without them becoming as loose as
   a

 single loop would.

 A yet further advantage is that the loop closer to the nut takes most

 of the wear leaving the fret loop closer to the bridge with a cleaner

 take-off for a longer period than a wholly single loop.

 rgds

 MH

   __

 From: Matthew Daillie <[2]dail...@club-internet.fr>

 To: "[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

 Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 11:33

 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

 I've never had issues with single knots.

 Best,

 Matthew

 On 09/03/2018 11:39, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

 >  Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are employed

 >(something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and easier
   to

 tie

 >firmly, historical double fret loops

 To get on or off this list see list information at

 [1][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 --

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 1. [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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References

   1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   2. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread Tristan von Neumann 
Even gut fret is quite expensive if you want a nice slant in fret 
thickness, and double frets are twice as expensive :)

Sometimes I play 4-6 hours a day and they wear off quite quickly.

A substitute would be highly welcome. I have thought about soaking 
parcel string in hide glue for frets.

Has anyone tried something that?



Am 09.03.2018 um 11:39 schrieb Martyn Hodgson:

Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are employed
(something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and easier to tie
firmly, historical double fret loops
MH
  __

From: Matthew Daillie 
To:
Cc: lutelist Net 
Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 9:27
Subject: [LUTE] Loose frets
If your frets are becoming loose after a short period then it's
probably because you didn't pull them tight enough in the first place
(I am presuming you use gut frets). Make sure that you are giving them
enough leeway to tighten properly when you pull them towards the
bridge. They need almost a whole position to get nicely tight, so when
you put the third fret on, for example, tighten it close to the second
fret before moving it up the fingerboard. The first fret is generally
the most difficult to get tight as, due to the peg box, there is less
room to manoeuvre.
Variations in humidity can be an issue. If you put the frets on in very
wet weather and it then becomes very dry, your frets are likely to
loosen at least a little (fret gut will swell with the damp). Where I
live, the relative humidity can plummet within a few hours when the
cold, dry mistral wind blows.
I think that both Martin Shepherd and Travis Carey have done videos on
tying frets.
Best,
Matthew
> On Mar 9, 2018, at 2:28, Tristan von Neumann
<[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> My frets move even if I don't want them to move... at least after
some time. Maybe my knots are not good enough. But once you move them,
they become loose.
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread Martyn Hodgson 
   I'm pleased to hear it. Another advantage of double frets is that,
   being twice the length, the their elastic deformation and recovery is
   physically superior to a single: in short, you can move them around
   more (if you're that way inclined) without them becoming as loose as a
   single loop would.
   A yet further advantage is that the loop closer to the nut takes most
   of the wear leaving the fret loop closer to the bridge with a cleaner
   take-off for a longer period than a wholly single loop.
   rgds
   MH
 __

   From: Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr>
   To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 11:33
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
   I've never had issues with single knots.
   Best,
   Matthew
   On 09/03/2018 11:39, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
   >  Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are employed
   >(something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and easier to
   tie
   >firmly, historical double fret loops
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread Matthew Daillie 

I've never had issues with single knots.
Best,
Matthew

On 09/03/2018 11:39, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

  Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are employed
(something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and easier to tie
firmly, historical double fret loops





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

2018-03-09 Thread Martyn Hodgson 
   Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are employed
   (something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and easier to tie
   firmly, historical double fret loops
   MH
 __

   From: Matthew Daillie 
   To:
   Cc: lutelist Net 
   Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 9:27
   Subject: [LUTE] Loose frets
   If your frets are becoming loose after a short period then it's
   probably because you didn't pull them tight enough in the first place
   (I am presuming you use gut frets). Make sure that you are giving them
   enough leeway to tighten properly when you pull them towards the
   bridge. They need almost a whole position to get nicely tight, so when
   you put the third fret on, for example, tighten it close to the second
   fret before moving it up the fingerboard. The first fret is generally
   the most difficult to get tight as, due to the peg box, there is less
   room to manoeuvre.
   Variations in humidity can be an issue. If you put the frets on in very
   wet weather and it then becomes very dry, your frets are likely to
   loosen at least a little (fret gut will swell with the damp). Where I
   live, the relative humidity can plummet within a few hours when the
   cold, dry mistral wind blows.
   I think that both Martin Shepherd and Travis Carey have done videos on
   tying frets.
   Best,
   Matthew
   > On Mar 9, 2018, at 2:28, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
   >
   > My frets move even if I don't want them to move... at least after
   some time. Maybe my knots are not good enough. But once you move them,
   they become loose.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html