[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
And Pat strongly advocated playing standing up,
with the lute close to one's chin.
He also emphatically recommended looping the strap
around a couple of pegs on the treble side of the pegbox:
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/images/strap.jpg
to prevent one's lute from facing the ceiling.
RT
On 5/24/2020 3:04 PM, Leonard Williams wrote:
Disclaimer--I am a largely self-taught (with tips from this list!),
falteringly intermediate player. I use strap, footstool and shelf
liner. I enjoy playing, while mindfully trying to approximate
recognized proper technique.
It seems that what has taken me the longest time to get right (or
nearly so) is the balance of comfort, security, and accessibility for
right and left hands. As we are all built to different proportions and
agility, my conclusion is that there is no single right physical
approach to the lute; one needs simply to pay attention to what's
happening between the body and the instrument. A good teacher who can
"read" your body language while playing would be very helpful (Pat
O'Brien could do this kind of thing).
(here ends this 2 cents worth)
Regards,
Leonard Williams
-Original Message-
From: Jurgen Frenz
To: Leonard Williams
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sun, May 24, 2020 8:06 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap
I find the strap discussion quite interesting especially what Leonhard
Williams just said - it reminds me (and everybody who likes to think
about his/her playing) that the simple position we sit down and hold
the instrument has quite an impact on our playing. As often, there is
no "rule" except that everybody has to figure out how it's real
comfortable to play. I strongly believe that the instrument has to sit
there without any additional effort to hold it, one needs to figure out
how that exactly can be achieved.
Good luck!
âââââââ Original Message âââââââ
On Saturday, May 23, 2020 11:45 PM, Leonard Williams
<[1]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> Yes--the shelf liner material works very nicely to de-grease the
piggy!
> I actually use a footstool on the right to get the lute up a little
> higher (thigh under the widest point). Can't say it's improved my
> playing, however.
> Leonard Williams
> -Original Message-
> From: John Mardinly [2]john.mardi...@asu.edu
> To: howard posner [3]howardpos...@ca.rr.com; Lute List
> [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Sent: Sat, May 23, 2020 2:47 pm
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap
> I've been playing without a strap since 1970. However, I must admit
> that holding the lute is a bit like holding a greased pig. What works
> for me now is rubberized shelf liner:
>
[1][5]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1
d_r
>
d_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158
>
c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e
>
91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJ
>
mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkz
>
MDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGl
> yZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
> Cut out a 15'x15' piece for each thigh, and use a footstool for the
> left leg like guitarists use. The lute is then fairly stable. Makes a
> guitar a bit more stable also. $5 buys enough to last a lifetime.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
>
> > On May 22, 2020, at 4:16 PM, howard posner
>
> <[2][6]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson
>
> <[3][7]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is
>
> possible.
>
> >
>
> > Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay where
it
>
> is, unsupported?
>
> >
>
> > Wise Old Bird: It stays there because it's artistically right.
>
> >
>
> > Arthur: What?
>
> >
>
> > WOB: The Law of Gravity isn't as indiscriminate as people often
>
> think. You learn things like that when you're a bird.
>
> >
>
> > --Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (original radio script) Fit the
>
> Tenth
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap from the LUTEDUO links
[1]We could not find the links in the message I sentthey should be at the bottom of the message So hopefully this information can be helpful, Anton & Anna [2]LESSON 1, LUTE STRAP www.luteduo.com [youtube.png] LESSON 1, LUTE STRAP www.luteduo.com This video shows the very basic part of lute positioning technique - the strap, this is a very efficient way to ... [3]Some more lute tricks Luteduo lesson - YouTube [youtube.png] Luteduo lesson - YouTube Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world... -- References Visible links: 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C03fsBh5IUg 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C03fsBh5IUg 3. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Luteduo+lesson Hidden links: 5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C03fsBh5IUg 6. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Luteduo+lesson To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap from the LUTEDUO
[1]Hope this might be helpful:) Anna & Anton
[2]LESSON 1, LUTE STRAP www.luteduo.com
[youtube.png]
LESSON 1, LUTE STRAP www.luteduo.com
This video shows the very basic part of lute positioning technique -
the strap, this is a very efficient way to ...
[3]Luteduo lesson - YouTube
[youtube.png]
Luteduo lesson - YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content and share
it all with friends, family and the world...
On Sunday, May 24, 2020, 9:06:58 PM GMT+2, Leonard Williams
wrote:
Disclaimer--I am a largely self-taught (with tips from this
list!),
falteringly intermediate player. I use strap, footstool and shelf
liner. I enjoy playing, while mindfully trying to approximate
recognized proper technique.
It seems that what has taken me the longest time to get right (or
nearly so) is the balance of comfort, security, and accessibility for
right and left hands. As we are all built to different proportions
and
agility, my conclusion is that there is no single right physical
approach to the lute; one needs simply to pay attention to what's
happening between the body and the instrument. A good teacher who
can
"read" your body language while playing would be very helpful (Pat
O'Brien could do this kind of thing).
(here ends this 2 cents worth)
Regards,
Leonard Williams
-Original Message-
From: Jurgen Frenz <[4]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com>
To: Leonard Williams <[5]arc...@verizon.net>
Cc: [6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <[7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Sun, May 24, 2020 8:06 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap
I find the strap discussion quite interesting especially what
Leonhard
Williams just said - it reminds me (and everybody who likes to think
about his/her playing) that the simple position we sit down and hold
the instrument has quite an impact on our playing. As often, there is
no "rule" except that everybody has to figure out how it's real
comfortable to play. I strongly believe that the instrument has to
sit
there without any additional effort to hold it, one needs to figure
out
how that exactly can be achieved.
Good luck!
âââââââ Original Message âââââââ
On Saturday, May 23, 2020 11:45 PM, Leonard Williams
<[1][8]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> Yes--the shelf liner material works very nicely to de-grease the
piggy!
> I actually use a footstool on the right to get the lute up a little
> higher (thigh under the widest point). Can't say it's improved my
> playing, however.
> Leonard Williams
> -Original Message-
> From: John Mardinly [2][9]john.mardi...@asu.edu
> To: howard posner [3][10]howardpos...@ca.rr.com; Lute List
> [4][11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Sent: Sat, May 23, 2020 2:47 pm
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap
> I've been playing without a strap since 1970. However, I must admit
> that holding the lute is a bit like holding a greased pig. What
works
> for me now is rubberized shelf liner:
>
[1][5][12]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc
=1
d_r
>
d_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158
>
c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e
>
91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJ
>
mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkz
>
MDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGl
> yZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
> Cut out a 15'x15' piece for each thigh, and use a footstool for the
> left leg like guitarists use. The lute is then fairly stable. Makes
a
> guitar a bit more stable also. $5 buys enough to last a lifetime.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
>
> > On May 22, 2020, at 4:16 PM, howard posner
>
> <[2][6][13]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson
>
> <[3][7][14]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is
>
> possible.
>
> >
>
> > Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay
where
it
>
> is, unsupported?
>
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
Disclaimer--I am a largely self-taught (with tips from this list!), falteringly intermediate player. I use strap, footstool and shelf liner. I enjoy playing, while mindfully trying to approximate recognized proper technique. It seems that what has taken me the longest time to get right (or nearly so) is the balance of comfort, security, and accessibility for right and left hands. As we are all built to different proportions and agility, my conclusion is that there is no single right physical approach to the lute; one needs simply to pay attention to what's happening between the body and the instrument. A good teacher who can "read" your body language while playing would be very helpful (Pat O'Brien could do this kind of thing). (here ends this 2 cents worth) Regards, Leonard Williams -Original Message- From: Jurgen Frenz To: Leonard Williams Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, May 24, 2020 8:06 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap I find the strap discussion quite interesting especially what Leonhard Williams just said - it reminds me (and everybody who likes to think about his/her playing) that the simple position we sit down and hold the instrument has quite an impact on our playing. As often, there is no "rule" except that everybody has to figure out how it's real comfortable to play. I strongly believe that the instrument has to sit there without any additional effort to hold it, one needs to figure out how that exactly can be achieved. Good luck! âââââââ Original Message âââââââ On Saturday, May 23, 2020 11:45 PM, Leonard Williams <[1]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: > Yes--the shelf liner material works very nicely to de-grease the piggy! > I actually use a footstool on the right to get the lute up a little > higher (thigh under the widest point). Can't say it's improved my > playing, however. > Leonard Williams > -Original Message- > From: John Mardinly [2]john.mardi...@asu.edu > To: howard posner [3]howardpos...@ca.rr.com; Lute List > [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Sent: Sat, May 23, 2020 2:47 pm > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap > I've been playing without a strap since 1970. However, I must admit > that holding the lute is a bit like holding a greased pig. What works > for me now is rubberized shelf liner: > [1][5]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1 d_r > d_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158 > c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e > 91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJ > mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkz > MDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGl > yZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== > Cut out a 15'x15' piece for each thigh, and use a footstool for the > left leg like guitarists use. The lute is then fairly stable. Makes a > guitar a bit more stable also. $5 buys enough to last a lifetime. > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. > Classical Guitarist/Lutenist > > > On May 22, 2020, at 4:16 PM, howard posner > > <[2][6]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson > > <[3][7]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is > > possible. > > > > > > Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay where it > > is, unsupported? > > > > > > Wise Old Bird: It stays there because it's artistically right. > > > > > > Arthur: What? > > > > > > WOB: The Law of Gravity isn't as indiscriminate as people often > > think. You learn things like that when you're a bird. > > > > > > --Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (original radio script) Fit the > > Tenth > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > > [4][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo uth > .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n > 1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0D > BLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI > 2u_3cw-r5nvTuEw= > > ---
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
I find the strap discussion quite interesting especially what Leonhard Williams just said - it reminds me (and everybody who likes to think about his/her playing) that the simple position we sit down and hold the instrument has quite an impact on our playing. As often, there is no "rule" except that everybody has to figure out how it's real comfortable to play. I strongly believe that the instrument has to sit there without any additional effort to hold it, one needs to figure out how that exactly can be achieved. Good luck! ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, May 23, 2020 11:45 PM, Leonard Williams wrote: > Yes--the shelf liner material works very nicely to de-grease the piggy! > I actually use a footstool on the right to get the lute up a little > higher (thigh under the widest point). Can't say it's improved my > playing, however. > Leonard Williams > -Original Message- > From: John Mardinly john.mardi...@asu.edu > To: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com; Lute List > lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Sent: Sat, May 23, 2020 2:47 pm > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap > I've been playing without a strap since 1970. However, I must admit > that holding the lute is a bit like holding a greased pig. What works > for me now is rubberized shelf liner: > [1]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1_r > d_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158 > c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e > 91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJ > mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkz > MDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGl > yZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== > Cut out a 15'x15' piece for each thigh, and use a footstool for the > left leg like guitarists use. The lute is then fairly stable. Makes a > guitar a bit more stable also. $5 buys enough to last a lifetime. > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. > Classical Guitarist/Lutenist > > > On May 22, 2020, at 4:16 PM, howard posner > > <[2]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson > > <[3]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is > > possible. > > > > > > Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay where it > > is, unsupported? > > > > > > Wise Old Bird: It stays there because it's artistically right. > > > > > > Arthur: What? > > > > > > WOB: The Law of Gravity isn't as indiscriminate as people often > > think. You learn things like that when you're a bird. > > > > > > --Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (original radio script) Fit the > > Tenth > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > > [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth > .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n > 1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0D > BLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI > 2u_3cw-r5nvTuEw= > > --- > > References > > 1. > https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1_rd_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkzMDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== > 2. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com > 3. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com > 4. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0DBLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI2u_3cw-r5nvTuEw=
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
Yes--the shelf liner material works very nicely to de-grease the piggy! I actually use a footstool on the right to get the lute up a little higher (thigh under the widest point). Can't say it's improved my playing, however. Leonard Williams -Original Message- From: John Mardinly To: howard posner ; Lute List Sent: Sat, May 23, 2020 2:47 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap I've been playing without a strap since 1970. However, I must admit that holding the lute is a bit like holding a greased pig. What works for me now is rubberized shelf liner: [1]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1_r d_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158 c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e 91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkz MDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGl yZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== Cut out a 15'x15' piece for each thigh, and use a footstool for the left leg like guitarists use. The lute is then fairly stable. Makes a guitar a bit more stable also. $5 buys enough to last a lifetime. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. Classical Guitarist/Lutenist > On May 22, 2020, at 4:16 PM, howard posner <[2]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote: > > >> On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson <[3]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is possible. > > Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay where it is, unsupported? > > Wise Old Bird: It stays there because it's artistically right. > > Arthur: What? > > WOB: The Law of Gravity isn't as indiscriminate as people often think. You learn things like that when you're a bird. > > --Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (original radio script) Fit the Tenth > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n 1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0D BLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI 2u_3cw-r5nvTuEw= -- References 1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1_rd_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkzMDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== 2. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 3. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com 4. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0DBLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI2u_3cw-r5nvTuEw=
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
I’ve been playing without a strap since 1970. However, I must admit that holding the lute is a bit like holding a greased pig. What works for me now is rubberized shelf liner: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1_rd_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkzMDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== Cut out a 15’x15’ piece for each thigh, and use a footstool for the left leg like guitarists use. The lute is then fairly stable. Makes a guitar a bit more stable also. $5 buys enough to last a lifetime. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. Classical Guitarist/Lutenist > On May 22, 2020, at 4:16 PM, howard posner wrote: > > >> On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson >> wrote: >> >> Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is possible. > > Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay where it is, > unsupported? > > Wise Old Bird: It stays there because it’s artistically right. > > Arthur: What? > > WOB: The Law of Gravity isn’t as indiscriminate as people often think. You > learn things like that when you’re a bird. > > --Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (original radio script) Fit the Tenth > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0DBLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI2u_3cw-r5nvTuEw= >
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
> On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson > wrote: > > Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is possible. Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay where it is, unsupported? Wise Old Bird: It stays there because it’s artistically right. Arthur: What? WOB: The Law of Gravity isn’t as indiscriminate as people often think. You learn things like that when you’re a bird. --Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (original radio script) Fit the Tenth To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
Am Freitag, 22. Mai 2020 20:35 CEST, "G. C." schrieb: > I am surprized, that noone has yet mentioned the type of strap that > you sat on. It seems like a very effective solution. I think this is maybe because there is no (historical) evidence for suh straps. IIRC they are a modern invention. I first saw them with Paul O'Dette and Hopkinson Smith. Cheers, RalfD > >And can anybody remind me of the name of that modern X-strap at the >back, which seems like the optimal solution? >G. > >-- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Ralf Mattes Hochschule für Musik Freiburg Projektleitung HISinOne Schwarzwaldstr. 141, D-79102 Freiburg http://www.mh-freiburg.de
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
I am surprized, that noone has yet mentioned the type of strap that you sat on. It seems like a very effective solution. And can anybody remind me of the name of that modern X-strap at the back, which seems like the optimal solution? G. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
Oops forgot to paste the new url
https://lute-images.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issues/LI?q=%23%7BLute%20strap%20in%20use%7D%20or%20%23%7BUnused%20lute%20strap%7D%20or%20%23%7BWith%20lute%20on%20strap%7D%20order%20by:%20date%20
The query is as follows:
#{Lutestrapinuse}or#{Unusedlutestrap}or#{Withluteonstrap}orderby:date
- Luke
On 22-May-2020 17:41, Luke Emmet wrote:
Here is the same list, ordered by date. The first ones shown seems to
be around 1615
- Luke
On 22-May-2020 17:39, Luke Emmet wrote:
Hi Tristan and all
You can find over 100 items in the The Lute Society's lute
iconography database that show a strap or a strap in use:
https://lute-images.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issues/LI?q=%23%7BLute%20strap%20in%20use%7D%20or%20%23%7BUnused%20lute%20strap%7D%20or%20%23%7BWith%20lute%20on%20strap%7D%20
You can filter by date if you wish or just scan down to see them all.
Best wishes
- Luke
On 22-May-2020 12:18, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
I have been looking at Renaissance paintings or those around 1600, as I
wanted to pick the right ornaments for the strap.
Any lute straps in Renaissance paintings?
I haven't been looking through the whole database after I found nothing
in a dozen paintings, so I stopped to ask here...
That's what the list is for, right? :)
On 22.05.20 13:43, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
Not to forget the picture of two guy playing in Castaldi's Capricci
a due stromenti … :)
-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap
Datum: 2020-05-22T13:26:04+0200
Von: "Ralf Mattes"
An: "Tristan von Neumann"
Am Freitag, 22. Mai 2020 12:24 CEST, Tristan von Neumann
schrieb:
I am going to make myself a nice lute strap.
So I have been digging through paintings...
Weirdly, no one ever seems to use any form of strap...
Look closer/search better. Just two:
- https://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/spencer4.htm, last
picture on page.
- the chitarrone player from the medici band as depicted on
Torelli's Theorbo method
(or here
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/b0/1c/ceb01c35498e2df02fd664caa582f1e7.jpg)
I think you'll find more at Watteau et al.
Cheers, RalfD
How did they manage to play?
Or did the painters not bother painting them?
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
__
Orlando Lutes
http://www.orlando-lutes.com
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
Here is the same list, ordered by date. The first ones shown seems to be around 1615 - Luke On 22-May-2020 17:39, Luke Emmet wrote: Hi Tristan and all You can find over 100 items in the The Lute Society's lute iconography database that show a strap or a strap in use: https://lute-images.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issues/LI?q=%23%7BLute%20strap%20in%20use%7D%20or%20%23%7BUnused%20lute%20strap%7D%20or%20%23%7BWith%20lute%20on%20strap%7D%20 You can filter by date if you wish or just scan down to see them all. Best wishes - Luke On 22-May-2020 12:18, Tristan von Neumann wrote: I have been looking at Renaissance paintings or those around 1600, as I wanted to pick the right ornaments for the strap. Any lute straps in Renaissance paintings? I haven't been looking through the whole database after I found nothing in a dozen paintings, so I stopped to ask here... That's what the list is for, right? :) On 22.05.20 13:43, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: Not to forget the picture of two guy playing in Castaldi's Capricci a due stromenti … :) -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap Datum: 2020-05-22T13:26:04+0200 Von: "Ralf Mattes" An: "Tristan von Neumann" Am Freitag, 22. Mai 2020 12:24 CEST, Tristan von Neumann schrieb: I am going to make myself a nice lute strap. So I have been digging through paintings... Weirdly, no one ever seems to use any form of strap... Look closer/search better. Just two: - https://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/spencer4.htm, last picture on page. - the chitarrone player from the medici band as depicted on Torelli's Theorbo method (or here https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/b0/1c/ceb01c35498e2df02fd664caa582f1e7.jpg) I think you'll find more at Watteau et al. Cheers, RalfD How did they manage to play? Or did the painters not bother painting them? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- __ Orlando Lutes http://www.orlando-lutes.com
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
Hi Tristan and all You can find over 100 items in the The Lute Society's lute iconography database that show a strap or a strap in use: https://lute-images.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issues/LI?q=%23%7BLute%20strap%20in%20use%7D%20or%20%23%7BUnused%20lute%20strap%7D%20or%20%23%7BWith%20lute%20on%20strap%7D%20 You can filter by date if you wish or just scan down to see them all. Best wishes - Luke On 22-May-2020 12:18, Tristan von Neumann wrote: I have been looking at Renaissance paintings or those around 1600, as I wanted to pick the right ornaments for the strap. Any lute straps in Renaissance paintings? I haven't been looking through the whole database after I found nothing in a dozen paintings, so I stopped to ask here... That's what the list is for, right? :) On 22.05.20 13:43, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: Not to forget the picture of two guy playing in Castaldi's Capricci a due stromenti … :) -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap Datum: 2020-05-22T13:26:04+0200 Von: "Ralf Mattes" An: "Tristan von Neumann" Am Freitag, 22. Mai 2020 12:24 CEST, Tristan von Neumann schrieb: I am going to make myself a nice lute strap. So I have been digging through paintings... Weirdly, no one ever seems to use any form of strap... Look closer/search better. Just two: - https://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/spencer4.htm, last picture on page. - the chitarrone player from the medici band as depicted on Torelli's Theorbo method (or here https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/b0/1c/ceb01c35498e2df02fd664caa582f1e7.jpg) I think you'll find more at Watteau et al. Cheers, RalfD How did they manage to play? Or did the painters not bother painting them? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- __ Orlando Lutes http://www.orlando-lutes.com
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
I have been looking at Renaissance paintings or those around 1600, as I wanted to pick the right ornaments for the strap. Any lute straps in Renaissance paintings? I haven't been looking through the whole database after I found nothing in a dozen paintings, so I stopped to ask here... That's what the list is for, right? :) On 22.05.20 13:43, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: Not to forget the picture of two guy playing in Castaldi's Capricci a due stromenti … :) -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap Datum: 2020-05-22T13:26:04+0200 Von: "Ralf Mattes" An: "Tristan von Neumann" Am Freitag, 22. Mai 2020 12:24 CEST, Tristan von Neumann schrieb: I am going to make myself a nice lute strap. So I have been digging through paintings... Weirdly, no one ever seems to use any form of strap... Look closer/search better. Just two: - https://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/spencer4.htm, last picture on page. - the chitarrone player from the medici band as depicted on Torelli's Theorbo method (or here https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/b0/1c/ceb01c35498e2df02fd664caa582f1e7.jpg) I think you'll find more at Watteau et al. Cheers, RalfD How did they manage to play? Or did the painters not bother painting them? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
Not to forget the picture of two guy playing in Castaldi's Capricci a due stromenti … :) -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap Datum: 2020-05-22T13:26:04+0200 Von: "Ralf Mattes" An: "Tristan von Neumann" Am Freitag, 22. Mai 2020 12:24 CEST, Tristan von Neumann schrieb: > I am going to make myself a nice lute strap. > > So I have been digging through paintings... > > Weirdly, no one ever seems to use any form of strap... Look closer/search better. Just two: - https://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/spencer4.htm, last picture on page. - the chitarrone player from the medici band as depicted on Torelli's Theorbo method (or here https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/b0/1c/ceb01c35498e2df02fd664caa582f1e7.jpg) I think you'll find more at Watteau et al. Cheers, RalfD > > How did they manage to play? > > Or did the painters not bother painting them? > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Ralf Mattes Hochschule für Musik Freiburg Projektleitung HISinOne Schwarzwaldstr. 141, D-79102 Freiburg http://www.mh-freiburg.de
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap
Am Freitag, 22. Mai 2020 12:24 CEST, Tristan von Neumann schrieb: > I am going to make myself a nice lute strap. > > So I have been digging through paintings... > > Weirdly, no one ever seems to use any form of strap... Look closer/search better. Just two: - https://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/spencer4.htm, last picture on page. - the chitarrone player from the medici band as depicted on Torelli's Theorbo method (or here https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/b0/1c/ceb01c35498e2df02fd664caa582f1e7.jpg) I think you'll find more at Watteau et al. Cheers, RalfD > > How did they manage to play? > > Or did the painters not bother painting them? > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Ralf Mattes Hochschule für Musik Freiburg Projektleitung HISinOne Schwarzwaldstr. 141, D-79102 Freiburg http://www.mh-freiburg.de
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Sean, I'd love to see a picture of that if you can point at one? Anyone else having pictures to go with their various strap configurations, feel free to chime in. On Jul 27, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com wrote: Hi Herbert, When I'm playing and wearing the strap, its pull is about 35 degrees away from the line of the neck (to the bridge). If you were looking straight at the belly, the strings would pull away to the left, to the rear and at an acute angle to the neck. The strings, after they bend around the nut, pull the pegox into the join at the neck at about 35 kg (338 N if I've read my StringCalc app correctly for my 6c). I can't see how the weight of the lute pulling on the pegbox from *any* direction will significantly compete with those 35 kg and its hide glue adhesive. The strap pulls from two strings: one placed near the join and one towards the other end of the pegbox and they pull, more or less, equally. Apparently I'm not understanding your observation. But fret not; I do worry a little. The endpin is only held in by friction (and a paper shim to give it the right diameter). I make sure _never_ to pull the strap from the bottom away from the lute! Sean On Jul 27, 2015, at 9:49 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: The force from the strap (to some extent) counters the force from the strings. The strings pull the pegbox in one direction, and the strap pulls it in more-or-less the opposite direction, so there is a cancellation effect. A strap at the pegbox would be much worse if it pulled in the same direction as the strings. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Sean's suggestion was very useful ,that is having two points of contact on the pegbox. With two cords from a guitar strap attached to these, there is an extra level of stability and as he says, no rotating. Many thanks __ From: Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015, 4:26 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap Charles I keep an eye out at Goodwills and other used clothing stores for a useful belt. Years ago I found the perfect Marks Spencer for a couple of bucks and modified it for the lute strap. You certainly don't want any metal bits bobbling around in the case. I use two dark laces coming off the shoulder to the pegbox that keep the lute in exactly the position I want it. No rotating and the strings and right hand are always where I want them. Position is one thing but consistancy has its place, too. This really helped me move forward a few years ago in technique and - bonus - I can stand comfortably and play, too. If I hadn't listened to too much prog in the 70s I could probably even dance. I could send you pics if you'd like. Sean -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
The force from the strap (to some extent) counters the force from the strings. The strings pull the pegbox in one direction, and the strap pulls it in more-or-less the opposite direction, so there is a cancellation effect. A strap at the pegbox would be much worse if it pulled in the same direction as the strings. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Hi Herbert, When I'm playing and wearing the strap, its pull is about 35 degrees away from the line of the neck (to the bridge). If you were looking straight at the belly, the strings would pull away to the left, to the rear and at an acute angle to the neck. The strings, after they bend around the nut, pull the pegox into the join at the neck at about 35 kg (338 N if I've read my StringCalc app correctly for my 6c). I can't see how the weight of the lute pulling on the pegbox from *any* direction will significantly compete with those 35 kg and its hide glue adhesive. The strap pulls from two strings: one placed near the join and one towards the other end of the pegbox and they pull, more or less, equally. Apparently I'm not understanding your observation. But fret not; I do worry a little. The endpin is only held in by friction (and a paper shim to give it the right diameter). I make sure _never_ to pull the strap from the bottom away from the lute! Sean On Jul 27, 2015, at 9:49 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: The force from the strap (to some extent) counters the force from the strings. The strings pull the pegbox in one direction, and the strap pulls it in more-or-less the opposite direction, so there is a cancellation effect. A strap at the pegbox would be much worse if it pulled in the same direction as the strings. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
I always use a nice screw to strengthen the pegbox to neck joint as this is the way I was taught in lute building. What do other lute makers do? I am at the moment making a triple beg box for a baroque lute and am about to configure the screw and joint. Lutes always have a screw or nail at the neck block, so why not at the pegbox too? Sterling Sent from my iPad On Jul 27, 2015, at 11:38 AM, Charles Mokotoff mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Sean, I'd love to see a picture of that if you can point at one? Anyone else having pictures to go with their various strap configurations, feel free to chime in. On Jul 27, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com wrote: Hi Herbert, When I'm playing and wearing the strap, its pull is about 35 degrees away from the line of the neck (to the bridge). If you were looking straight at the belly, the strings would pull away to the left, to the rear and at an acute angle to the neck. The strings, after they bend around the nut, pull the pegox into the join at the neck at about 35 kg (338 N if I've read my StringCalc app correctly for my 6c). I can't see how the weight of the lute pulling on the pegbox from *any* direction will significantly compete with those 35 kg and its hide glue adhesive. The strap pulls from two strings: one placed near the join and one towards the other end of the pegbox and they pull, more or less, equally. Apparently I'm not understanding your observation. But fret not; I do worry a little. The endpin is only held in by friction (and a paper shim to give it the right diameter). I make sure _never_ to pull the strap from the bottom away from the lute! Sean On Jul 27, 2015, at 9:49 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: The force from the strap (to some extent) counters the force from the strings. The strings pull the pegbox in one direction, and the strap pulls it in more-or-less the opposite direction, so there is a cancellation effect. A strap at the pegbox would be much worse if it pulled in the same direction as the strings. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
I have a diagram how to tie the strap so there would be no rotation - http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theaxe.html RT On 7/27/2015 1:07 PM, Tony wrote: Sean's suggestion was very useful ,that is having two points of contact on the pegbox. With two cords from a guitar strap attached to these, there is an extra level of stability and as he says, no rotating. Many thanks __ From: Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015, 4:26 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap Charles I keep an eye out at Goodwills and other used clothing stores for a useful belt. Years ago I found the perfect Marks Spencer for a couple of bucks and modified it for the lute strap. You certainly don't want any metal bits bobbling around in the case. I use two dark laces coming off the shoulder to the pegbox that keep the lute in exactly the position I want it. No rotating and the strings and right hand are always where I want them. Position is one thing but consistancy has its place, too. This really helped me move forward a few years ago in technique and - bonus - I can stand comfortably and play, too. If I hadn't listened to too much prog in the 70s I could probably even dance. I could send you pics if you'd like. Sean -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Thanks to everyone for the replies. What is clear from my looking the URLs over is that: 1. No one in the USA is selling these 2. They are a bit expensive for what you get However, I understand that some of these are quite beautiful and much nicer than anything I could probably cobble together. More importantly, I played around with my version some more and noticed that, yes, the lute is sitting stable on the RIGHT thigh, rather than in between the thighs with a footstool, (essentially I hold the instrument as if it were a classical guitar). This used to work in my younger years, not so much now. But, playing thumb out and using the strap, it still is uncomfortable and tends to put my hand over the rose or even closer to the neck. Perhaps just needs some time to adjust? Nigel North's strap configuration looks a bit different than what Paul uses: [1]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o Thanks, again. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [2]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 2. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 3. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
I just spent a week with Nigel at the LSA seminar and got to see his lute up close. He has tied a loop of gut fret to his button and runs a strap through it (tied at the pegbox). The strap is loose through the gut fret loop and continues with enough length for him to sit on it. This allows him to adjust tension however he wants by sitting on more or less of the strap. Any very flexible belt would work in his method or a long length of leather or some cloth material. Michael On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Mokotoff [1]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks to everyone for the replies. What is clear from my looking the URLs over is that: 1. No one in the USA is selling these 2. They are a bit expensive for what you get However, I understand that some of these are quite beautiful and much nicer than anything I could probably cobble together. More importantly, I played around with my version some more and noticed that, yes, the lute is sitting stable on the RIGHT thigh, rather than in between the thighs with a footstool, (essentially I hold the instrument as if it were a classical guitar). This used to work in my younger years, not so much now. But, playing thumb out and using the strap, it still is uncomfortable and tends to put my hand over the rose or even closer to the neck. Perhaps just needs some time to adjust? Nigel North's strap configuration looks a bit different than what Paul uses: [1][2]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o Thanks, again. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [2][3]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3][4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4][5]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [7]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 2. mailto:[8]mokot...@gmail.com 3. [9]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. [10]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- __ Michael M. Grant, PhD, MBA Coastal Psychological Consulting, PA 74 Lodge Trail Pawleys Island, SC 29585 843.314.3263 Phone 843.314.3784 Fax [12]www.coastalpsychological.com -- References 1. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 2. https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 3. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 4. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 8. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 9. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 10. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 12. http://www.coastalpsychological.com/
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Granted I'm not a luthier but the weight of the lute being pulled from the side - even from the furthermost pegs - is not more than the weight of the lute. A smaller gluing surface of bridge-to-belly withstands the many pounds of strings trying to pull the bridge off. Amazing stuff, hide glue. The pegbox has the added tension of all the strings helping to adhere the pegbox to the neck, too. In my years of strappy playing and various lutes I have yet to lose confidence in that join. Newbies, pegs and pegboxes are sometimes a difficult combo to watch - especially if they aren't your student or you're not in a position to put in your oar. If they aren't holding the pegbox in the other hand than the one holding the peg then I get nervous. Once one gets the hang of it and the pegs move freely enough then one-handed tuning should be ok. What I often see that looks cringeworthy is holding the lute out front - its belly facing your belly - one hand on the neck and the other jamming the peg in. That's the twist that will break it, imho. Maybe that's what United Airlines is doing wrong. On the other hand, watching a good player tune is in itself fascinating. I don't need to hear those old wives' tales of 'more time spent on tuning than playing' or the Too-Ning joke. A good player does it quickly and accurately - however often or necessary - and gives it the least distractory attention possible. Sean On Jul 23, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: I agree with Chris that tying a strap to the pegbox is not an ideal choice. It's not as though you're spanking the plank a la some of our Telecaster brethren, but I've always felt a bit uneasy about undoing that glue joint. I once witnessed one of my students wrench his pegbox clean off while in the midst of learning the zen of tuning. Luthiers could probably wade into the discussion but my guess is that it would take very little force to break that glue joint. Especially if (unlike the characters in the videos) you play a proper lute with a reasonably robust string length. RA Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:07:12 -0400 To: spiffys84...@yahoo.com CC: csbarker...@att.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: mokot...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap I was wondering same. On Jul 23, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Sterling Price spiffys84...@yahoo.com wrote: Just curious-- has anyone ever had or heard of a pegbox failing because of a strap? It should be fine if one ties the strap as close as possible to the joint. Sterling Sent from my iPad On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:23 AM, Chris Barker csbarker...@att.net wrote: I have noticed one recurring mistake that lutenists are making with straps. I'm no bigtime performer, just an amateur for fifty years, but I have built a number of Lutes and Vihuelas, and I see a problem some lutenists are making with their straps. Attaching a strap to a button that is pinned through the end of the lute and into the tail block is just fine. Attaching a strap to the pegbox is NOT. The pegbox is already under a great deal of tension from the strings. The added tension from a strap, no matter how slight, is just multiplying the chances for a difficulty to occur. It is always advisable to mount a button through the center stave and into the neck block less than an inch from the neck/body joint. On Vihuelas and Baroque and Renaissance Guitars the button should be pinned through the neck block centered and less than an inch from the heel, or into the heel itself if it is large enough. I have done this, and it works. Others have been happy with it as well. Chris -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mokotoff Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:44 AM To: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap Thanks to everyone for the replies. What is clear from my looking the URLs over is that: 1. No one in the USA is selling these 2. They are a bit expensive for what you get However, I understand that some of these are quite beautiful and much nicer than anything I could probably cobble together. More importantly, I played around with my version some more and noticed that, yes, the lute is sitting stable on the RIGHT thigh, rather than in between the thighs with a footstool, (essentially I hold the instrument as if it were a classical guitar). This used to work in my younger years, not so much now. But, playing thumb out and using the strap, it still is uncomfortable and tends to put my hand over the rose or even closer to the neck. Perhaps just needs some time to adjust? Nigel North's strap configuration looks a bit different than what Paul uses: [1]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o Thanks, again. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [2]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
I agree with Chris that tying a strap to the pegbox is not an ideal choice. It's not as though you're spanking the plank a la some of our Telecaster brethren, but I've always felt a bit uneasy about undoing that glue joint. I once witnessed one of my students wrench his pegbox clean off while in the midst of learning the zen of tuning. Luthiers could probably wade into the discussion but my guess is that it would take very little force to break that glue joint. Especially if (unlike the characters in the videos) you play a proper lute with a reasonably robust string length. RA Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:07:12 -0400 To: spiffys84...@yahoo.com CC: csbarker...@att.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: mokot...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap I was wondering same. On Jul 23, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Sterling Price spiffys84...@yahoo.com wrote: Just curious-- has anyone ever had or heard of a pegbox failing because of a strap? It should be fine if one ties the strap as close as possible to the joint. Sterling Sent from my iPad On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:23 AM, Chris Barker csbarker...@att.net wrote: I have noticed one recurring mistake that lutenists are making with straps. I'm no bigtime performer, just an amateur for fifty years, but I have built a number of Lutes and Vihuelas, and I see a problem some lutenists are making with their straps. Attaching a strap to a button that is pinned through the end of the lute and into the tail block is just fine. Attaching a strap to the pegbox is NOT. The pegbox is already under a great deal of tension from the strings. The added tension from a strap, no matter how slight, is just multiplying the chances for a difficulty to occur. It is always advisable to mount a button through the center stave and into the neck block less than an inch from the neck/body joint. On Vihuelas and Baroque and Renaissance Guitars the button should be pinned through the neck block centered and less than an inch from the heel, or into the heel itself if it is large enough. I have done this, and it works. Others have been happy with it as well. Chris -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mokotoff Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:44 AM To: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap Thanks to everyone for the replies. What is clear from my looking the URLs over is that: 1. No one in the USA is selling these 2. They are a bit expensive for what you get However, I understand that some of these are quite beautiful and much nicer than anything I could probably cobble together. More importantly, I played around with my version some more and noticed that, yes, the lute is sitting stable on the RIGHT thigh, rather than in between the thighs with a footstool, (essentially I hold the instrument as if it were a classical guitar). This used to work in my younger years, not so much now. But, playing thumb out and using the strap, it still is uncomfortable and tends to put my hand over the rose or even closer to the neck. Perhaps just needs some time to adjust? Nigel North's strap configuration looks a bit different than what Paul uses: [1]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o Thanks, again. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [2]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 2. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 3. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Remember that pegbox joint often has a large screw holding it together. I recently took apart a pegbox joint and it was not easy. Also-- archlutes and theorbos always use a strap attached to the pegbox. Sterling Sent from my iPad On Jul 23, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Ron Andrico [1]praelu...@hotmail.com wrote: I agree with Chris that tying a strap to the pegbox is not an ideal choice. It's not as though you're spanking the plank a la some of our Telecaster brethren, but I've always felt a bit uneasy about undoing that glue joint. I once witnessed one of my students wrench his pegbox clean off while in the midst of learning the zen of tuning. Luthiers could probably wade into the discussion but my guess is that it would take very little force to break that glue joint. Especially if (unlike the characters in the videos) you play a proper lute with a reasonably robust string length. RA Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:07:12 -0400 To: [2]spiffys84...@yahoo.com CC: [3]csbarker...@att.net; [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [5]mokot...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap I was wondering same. On Jul 23, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Sterling Price [6]spiffys84...@yahoo.com wrote: Just curious-- has anyone ever had or heard of a pegbox failing because of a strap? It should be fine if one ties the strap as close as possible to the joint. Sterling Sent from my iPad On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:23 AM, Chris Barker [7]csbarker...@att.net wrote: I have noticed one recurring mistake that lutenists are making with straps. I'm no bigtime performer, just an amateur for fifty years, but I have built a number of Lutes and Vihuelas, and I see a problem some lutenists are making with their straps. Attaching a strap to a button that is pinned through the end of the lute and into the tail block is just fine. Attaching a strap to the pegbox is NOT. The pegbox is already under a great deal of tension from the strings. The added tension from a strap, no matter how slight, is just multiplying the chances for a difficulty to occur. It is always advisable to mount a button through the center stave and into the neck block less than an inch from the neck/body joint. On Vihuelas and Baroque and Renaissance Guitars the button should be pinned through the neck block centered and less than an inch from the heel, or into the heel itself if it is large enough. I have done this, and it works. Others have been happy with it as well. Chris -Original Message- From: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[9]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mokotoff Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:44 AM To: LuteNet list [10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap Thanks to everyone for the replies. What is clear from my looking the URLs over is that: 1. No one in the USA is selling these 2. They are a bit expensive for what you get However, I understand that some of these are quite beautiful and much nicer than anything I could probably cobble together. More importantly, I played around with my version some more and noticed that, yes, the lute is sitting stable on the RIGHT thigh, rather than in between the thighs with a footstool, (essentially I hold the instrument as if it were a classical guitar). This used to work in my younger years, not so much now. But, playing thumb out and using the strap, it still is uncomfortable and tends to put my hand over the rose or even closer to the neck. Perhaps just needs some time to adjust? Nigel North's strap configuration looks a bit different than what Paul uses: [1][11]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o Thanks, again. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [2][12]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3][13]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4][14]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5][15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [16]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 2. [17]mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 3. [18]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. [19]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. [20]http
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Greetings Luters, Interesting lute strap discussion - something I've experimented with for years. I find sitting cross-legged a strain. With a strap, I can sit comfortably or stand. (6 cs Larry Brown Frei lute). Here's what I've come up with that works for me (for what it's worth). I have two strap buttons, the second near the neck bowl joint, but you can also attach the strap as typical at the peg box - see what works. I think this depends on your arm length, whether you want your lute positioned more left or more right of your chest center line, so your right and left arms are both without stress. I don't think the actual strap material is important - pick something you like (leather, cloth webbing, woven, ribbon, part of an old belt). One end is attached at button at bridge end button. The other end of strap has a length of leather or cloth lacing or twine tied to the strap end. Find some spring loaded drawstring adjusters (plastic beads with spring tension squeezer pin as for parkas, duffel bags, etc.). Pass the free end of the thinner cord (you just tied to the strap) through the drawstring adjuster, then around the peg head, then back through the drawstring adjuster in the opposite direction. Now you can micro adjust the snugness of the strap using the drawstring adjuster. You can even do this pretty much on the fly, once you get the hang of it. This makes it easy to experiment and find your 'favorite' lute position. Also makes it easy to adjust the strap if you play sometimes with shirt only, or sometimes with jacket, or, wearing a doublet anyone? If anyone wants a photo, I can send that next week. I'm in Germany now, luteless. Bob Purrenhage __ __ From: Michael Grant mmgrant0...@gmail.com To: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap I just spent a week with Nigel at the LSA seminar and got to see his lute up close. He has tied a loop of gut fret to his button and runs a strap through it (tied at the pegbox). The strap is loose through the gut fret loop and continues with enough length for him to sit on it. This allows him to adjust tension however he wants by sitting on more or less of the strap. Any very flexible belt would work in his method or a long length of leather or some cloth material. Michael On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Mokotoff [1][1]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks to everyone for the replies. What is clear from my looking the URLs over is that: 1. No one in the USA is selling these 2. They are a bit expensive for what you get However, I understand that some of these are quite beautiful and much nicer than anything I could probably cobble together. More importantly, I played around with my version some more and noticed that, yes, the lute is sitting stable on the RIGHT thigh, rather than in between the thighs with a footstool, (essentially I hold the instrument as if it were a classical guitar). This used to work in my younger years, not so much now. But, playing thumb out and using the strap, it still is uncomfortable and tends to put my hand over the rose or even closer to the neck. Perhaps just needs some time to adjust? Nigel North's strap configuration looks a bit different than what Paul uses: [1][2][2]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o Thanks, again. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [2][3][3]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3][4][4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4][5][5]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5][6][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [7][7]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 2. mailto:[8][8]mokot...@gmail.com 3. [9][9]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. [10][10]https
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
A pic would be really helpful - just to see exactly how you attach it to the pegbox. I use a guitar strap,at the moment! Thanks Tony __ From: Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com I keep an eye out at Goodwills and other used clothing stores for a useful belt. Years ago I found the perfect Marks Spencer for a couple of bucks and modified it for the lute strap. You certainly don't want any metal bits bobbling around in the case. I use two dark laces coming off the shoulder to the pegbox that keep the lute in exactly the position I want it. No rotating and the strings and right hand are always where I want them. Position is one thing but consistancy has its place, too. This really helped me move forward a few years ago in technique and - bonus - I can stand comfortably and play, too. If I hadn't listened to too much prog in the 70s I could probably even dance. I could send you pics if you'd like. Sean -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Just curious-- has anyone ever had or heard of a pegbox failing because of a strap? It should be fine if one ties the strap as close as possible to the joint. Sterling Sent from my iPad On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:23 AM, Chris Barker csbarker...@att.net wrote: I have noticed one recurring mistake that lutenists are making with straps. I'm no bigtime performer, just an amateur for fifty years, but I have built a number of Lutes and Vihuelas, and I see a problem some lutenists are making with their straps. Attaching a strap to a button that is pinned through the end of the lute and into the tail block is just fine. Attaching a strap to the pegbox is NOT. The pegbox is already under a great deal of tension from the strings. The added tension from a strap, no matter how slight, is just multiplying the chances for a difficulty to occur. It is always advisable to mount a button through the center stave and into the neck block less than an inch from the neck/body joint. On Vihuelas and Baroque and Renaissance Guitars the button should be pinned through the neck block centered and less than an inch from the heel, or into the heel itself if it is large enough. I have done this, and it works. Others have been happy with it as well. Chris -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mokotoff Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:44 AM To: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap Thanks to everyone for the replies. What is clear from my looking the URLs over is that: 1. No one in the USA is selling these 2. They are a bit expensive for what you get However, I understand that some of these are quite beautiful and much nicer than anything I could probably cobble together. More importantly, I played around with my version some more and noticed that, yes, the lute is sitting stable on the RIGHT thigh, rather than in between the thighs with a footstool, (essentially I hold the instrument as if it were a classical guitar). This used to work in my younger years, not so much now. But, playing thumb out and using the strap, it still is uncomfortable and tends to put my hand over the rose or even closer to the neck. Perhaps just needs some time to adjust? Nigel North's strap configuration looks a bit different than what Paul uses: [1]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o Thanks, again. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [2]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 2. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 3. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
I was wondering same. On Jul 23, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Sterling Price spiffys84...@yahoo.com wrote: Just curious-- has anyone ever had or heard of a pegbox failing because of a strap? It should be fine if one ties the strap as close as possible to the joint. Sterling Sent from my iPad On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:23 AM, Chris Barker csbarker...@att.net wrote: I have noticed one recurring mistake that lutenists are making with straps. I'm no bigtime performer, just an amateur for fifty years, but I have built a number of Lutes and Vihuelas, and I see a problem some lutenists are making with their straps. Attaching a strap to a button that is pinned through the end of the lute and into the tail block is just fine. Attaching a strap to the pegbox is NOT. The pegbox is already under a great deal of tension from the strings. The added tension from a strap, no matter how slight, is just multiplying the chances for a difficulty to occur. It is always advisable to mount a button through the center stave and into the neck block less than an inch from the neck/body joint. On Vihuelas and Baroque and Renaissance Guitars the button should be pinned through the neck block centered and less than an inch from the heel, or into the heel itself if it is large enough. I have done this, and it works. Others have been happy with it as well. Chris -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mokotoff Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:44 AM To: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap Thanks to everyone for the replies. What is clear from my looking the URLs over is that: 1. No one in the USA is selling these 2. They are a bit expensive for what you get However, I understand that some of these are quite beautiful and much nicer than anything I could probably cobble together. More importantly, I played around with my version some more and noticed that, yes, the lute is sitting stable on the RIGHT thigh, rather than in between the thighs with a footstool, (essentially I hold the instrument as if it were a classical guitar). This used to work in my younger years, not so much now. But, playing thumb out and using the strap, it still is uncomfortable and tends to put my hand over the rose or even closer to the neck. Perhaps just needs some time to adjust? Nigel North's strap configuration looks a bit different than what Paul uses: [1]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o Thanks, again. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [2]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 2. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 3. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
I have noticed one recurring mistake that lutenists are making with straps. I'm no bigtime performer, just an amateur for fifty years, but I have built a number of Lutes and Vihuelas, and I see a problem some lutenists are making with their straps. Attaching a strap to a button that is pinned through the end of the lute and into the tail block is just fine. Attaching a strap to the pegbox is NOT. The pegbox is already under a great deal of tension from the strings. The added tension from a strap, no matter how slight, is just multiplying the chances for a difficulty to occur. It is always advisable to mount a button through the center stave and into the neck block less than an inch from the neck/body joint. On Vihuelas and Baroque and Renaissance Guitars the button should be pinned through the neck block centered and less than an inch from the heel, or into the heel itself if it is large enough. I have done this, and it works. Others have been happy with it as well. Chris -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mokotoff Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:44 AM To: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strap Thanks to everyone for the replies. What is clear from my looking the URLs over is that: 1. No one in the USA is selling these 2. They are a bit expensive for what you get However, I understand that some of these are quite beautiful and much nicer than anything I could probably cobble together. More importantly, I played around with my version some more and noticed that, yes, the lute is sitting stable on the RIGHT thigh, rather than in between the thighs with a footstool, (essentially I hold the instrument as if it were a classical guitar). This used to work in my younger years, not so much now. But, playing thumb out and using the strap, it still is uncomfortable and tends to put my hand over the rose or even closer to the neck. Perhaps just needs some time to adjust? Nigel North's strap configuration looks a bit different than what Paul uses: [1]https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o Thanks, again. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [2]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://youtu.be/c7wLjIF1N5o 2. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 3. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
I bought one just like it from La Mi Cinta Dorada for my 8-course. [1]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ I like it a lot. It really does help keep the instrument more stable than a traditional strap. Jacob Johnson [?ui=2amp;ik=101a44c9b6amp;view=fimgamp;th=14df0960ba9a5fe1amp;atti d=0.0.1amp;disp=embamp;realattid=ii_iaw1hpst15_14df091e185b6ba7amp;a ttbid=ANGjdJ9k9SA3jOWYunPxe7BMOMYTWRmoM3qn1yYB2p4Ktvad56OTClHlu4NDFwXSW SoAUYUkZKmjBjtPNKWdQS0VBrvmz6R_zR4g_BJzVgMStoUG-OnxRJaGmuexCsYamp;sz=w 104-h104amp;ats=1434260476076amp;rm=14df0960ba9a5fe1amp;zwamp;atsh= 1] Guitar/Lute [2]www.johnsonguitarstudio.com 469.237.0625. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [3]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [5]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ 2. http://www.johnsonguitarstudio.com/ 3. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 4. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Just take a look at the straps made by La Mi Cinta Dorada. [1]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ Translation available at the top-left corner. 2015-07-22 22:07 GMT+02:00 Charles Mokotoff [2]mokot...@gmail.com: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- De conformidad con lo dispuesto en la Ley OrgA!nica 15/1999 de ProtecciA^3n de Datos de carA!cter Personal DAVID MORALES DE FRAAS, con domicilio en Salamanca, C/ Luis Vives, 6 - cuarto, le informa que los datos de carA!cter personal que facilite forman parte de un fichero, responsabilidad del mismo, para la gestiA^3n administrativa de los clientes. En el supuesto de que desee ejercitar los derechos que le asisten de acceso, rectificaciA^3n, cancelaciA^3n y oposiciA^3n dirija una comunicaciA^3n por escrito a la direcciA^3n indicada anteriormente o al correo electrA^3nico [6]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com con la referencia ProtecciA^3n de Datos incluyendo copia de su Documento Nacional de Identidad o documento identificativo equivalente. La informaciA^3n contenida en el presente mensaje de correo electrA^3nico es confidencial y su acceso A-onicamente estA! autorizado al destinatario original del mismo, quedando prohibidos cualquier comunicaciA^3n, divulgaciA^3n, o reenvAo, tanto del mensaje como de su contenido. En el supuesto de que usted no sea el destinatario autorizado, le rogamos borre el contenido del mensaje y nos comunique dicha circunstancia a travA(c)s de un mensaje de correo electrA^3nico a la direcciA^3n [7]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com -- References 1. http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ 2. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com 3. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. mailto:h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com 7. mailto:h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
I buy them from La mi Cinta Dorades: http://lamicintadorada.blogspot.com I have them for renaissance lutes, baroque lutes, and baroque guitars. They are very nice. I believe these are the ones that Paul is using - at least I asked him about it at one point and these were the response. He refers to it as his new Spanish strap. Regards David -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mokotoff Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:07 PM To: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Lute Strap Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Charles I keep an eye out at Goodwills and other used clothing stores for a useful belt. Years ago I found the perfect Marks Spencer for a couple of bucks and modified it for the lute strap. You certainly don't want any metal bits bobbling around in the case. I use two dark laces coming off the shoulder to the pegbox that keep the lute in exactly the position I want it. No rotating and the strings and right hand are always where I want them. Position is one thing but consistancy has its place, too. This really helped me move forward a few years ago in technique and - bonus - I can stand comfortably and play, too. If I hadn't listened to too much prog in the 70s I could probably even dance. I could send you pics if you'd like. Sean On Jul 22, 2015, at 1:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Or check out the beautiful custom straps from EB straps (they have a Wordpress website). David On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, David Morales [1]dmorale...@cuerdaspulsadas.com wrote: Just take a look at the straps made by La Mi Cinta Dorada. [1][2]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ Translation available at the top-left corner. 2015-07-22 22:07 GMT+02:00 Charles Mokotoff [2][3]mokot...@gmail.com: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][3][4]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [4][5]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [5][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- De conformidad con lo dispuesto en la Ley OrgA!nica 15/1999 de ProtecciA^3n de Datos de carA!cter Personal DAVID MORALES DE FRAAS, con domicilio en Salamanca, C/ Luis Vives, 6 - cuarto, le informa que los datos de carA!cter personal que facilite forman parte de un fichero, responsabilidad del mismo, para la gestiA^3n administrativa de los clientes. En el supuesto de que desee ejercitar los derechos que le asisten de acceso, rectificaciA^3n, cancelaciA^3n y oposiciA^3n dirija una comunicaciA^3n por escrito a la direcciA^3n indicada anteriormente o al correo electrA^3nico [6][7]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com con la referencia ProtecciA^3n de Datos incluyendo copia de su Documento Nacional de Identidad o documento identificativo equivalente. La informaciA^3n contenida en el presente mensaje de correo electrA^3nico es confidencial y su acceso A-onicamente estA! autorizado al destinatario original del mismo, quedando prohibidos cualquier comunicaciA^3n, divulgaciA^3n, o reenvAo, tanto del mensaje como de su contenido. En el supuesto de que usted no sea el destinatario autorizado, le rogamos borre el contenido del mensaje y nos comunique dicha circunstancia a travA(c)s de un mensaje de correo electrA^3nico a la direcciA^3n [7][8]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com -- References 1. [9]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ 2. mailto:[10]mokot...@gmail.com 3. [11]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 4. [12]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. mailto:[14]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com 7. mailto:[15]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com -- *** David van Ooijen [16]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [17]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- References 1. mailto:dmorale...@cuerdaspulsadas.com 2. http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ 3. javascript:; 4. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. javascript:; 8. javascript:; 9. http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ 10. javascript:; 11. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 12. https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 14. javascript:; 15. javascript:; 16. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 17. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strap
Only problem with EB straps is that they have 14 straps advertised but only 3 are actually available...and those three are relatively unattractive and priced at 49 Euros. Michael On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:37 PM, David Morales [1]dmorale...@cuerdaspulsadas.com wrote: Please, just keep in mind that you can not order the straps from our online store ([1][2]cuerdaspulsadas.com) but only by using the contact form in this page: [2][3]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ There you can see a nice video about the straps, they are really beautiful and useful :) Regards. 2015-07-22 22:33 GMT+02:00 Jacob Johnson [3][4]tmrguitar...@gmail.com: I bought one just like it from La Mi Cinta Dorada for my 8-course. [1][4][5]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ I like it a lot. It really does help keep the instrument more stable than a traditional strap. Jacob Johnson [?ui=2amp;ik=101a44c9b6amp;view=fimgamp;th=14df0960ba9a5fe1amp;a tti d=0.0.1amp;disp=embamp;realattid=ii_iaw1hpst15_14df091e185b6ba7am p;a ttbid=ANGjdJ9k9SA3jOWYunPxe7BMOMYTWRmoM3qn1yYB2p4Ktvad56OTClHlu4NDFw XSW SoAUYUkZKmjBjtPNKWdQS0VBrvmz6R_zR4g_BJzVgMStoUG-OnxRJaGmuexCsYamp;s z=w 104-h104amp;ats=1434260476076amp;rm=14df0960ba9a5fe1amp;zwamp;at sh= 1] Guitar/Lute [2][5][6]www.johnsonguitarstudio.com [6]469.237.0625. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff [3][7][7]mokot...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know where I could get this strap that Paul O'Dette is referring to in this interview? [1][4][8][8]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s I have tried jury-rigging something similar but it isn't working all that well for me. My lute looks about the same size as the instrument Paul is holding. Thanks for any words of wisdom on this, I've been wanting to sit differently for some time. -- References 1. [5][9][9]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s To get on or off this list see list information at [6][10][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [11][11]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ 2. [12][12]http://www.johnsonguitarstudio.com/ 3. mailto:[13][13]mokot...@gmail.com 4. [14][14]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 5. [15][15]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 6. [16][16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- De conformidad con lo dispuesto en la Ley OrgA!nica 15/1999 de ProtecciA^3n de Datos de carA!cter Personal DAVID MORALES DE FRAAS, con domicilio en Salamanca, C/ Luis Vives, 6 - cuarto, le informa que los datos de carA!cter personal que facilite forman parte de un fichero, responsabilidad del mismo, para la gestiA^3n administrativa de los clientes. En el supuesto de que desee ejercitar los derechos que le asisten de acceso, rectificaciA^3n, cancelaciA^3n y oposiciA^3n dirija una comunicaciA^3n por escrito a la direcciA^3n indicada anteriormente o al correo electrA^3nico [17][17]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com con la referencia ProtecciA^3n de Datos incluyendo copia de su Documento Nacional de Identidad o documento identificativo equivalente. La informaciA^3n contenida en el presente mensaje de correo electrA^3nico es confidencial y su acceso A-onicamente estA! autorizado al destinatario original del mismo, quedando prohibidos cualquier comunicaciA^3n, divulgaciA^3n, o reenvAo, tanto del mensaje como de su contenido. En el supuesto de que usted no sea el destinatario autorizado, le rogamos borre el contenido del mensaje y nos comunique dicha circunstancia a travA(c)s de un mensaje de correo electrA^3nico a la direcciA^3n [18][18]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com -- References 1. [19]http://cuerdaspulsadas.com/ 2. [20]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ 3. mailto:[21]tmrguitar...@gmail.com 4. [22]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/la-mi-cinta-dorada/ 5. [23]http://www.johnsonguitarstudio.com/ 6. tel:[24]469.237.0625 7. mailto:[25]mokot...@gmail.com 8. [26]https://youtu.be/tQ5vltWA0IY?t=15m27s 9.
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap/gut loop
I may have mentioned that my old Basel roommate Robert Clancy used to use that. I think he used a saxophone strap in place of a button on his clothing. I found it completely unstable. The thing flopped all over the place. On May 3, 2006, at 3:15 PM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Whilst the use of a loop round a button seemed, on the face of it, an eminently practical and sensible thoery; the difficulty I had was in making it work in practice. I asked if any one else had tried it and, I recall, only got a single response which echoed my own negative experience. Have you actually tried this method or do you know of anybody who has? More to the point if you, or others, have tried it what has been the experience? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap/gut loop
I got a lute strap, decades ago, which was quite a departure from what I'd seen before for straps. A web search gave no indication that they're still available, but the basic idea was this: it was a very long piece of light soft (sued) leather, colored a garish blue (probably to get more attention from the SCA crowd?). It was about 2 wide. The ends were unpierced, although the instructions said you could make holes and use them with pegs/buttons if you wanted to put those on your lute. I used the supplied self-stick velcro. One patch went at the bottom end (where a peg would be for a guitar) and the other on the body near the neck. The strap went from the bottom patch, around my middle once and up over my left shoulder and down, where it connected with the other patch. This meant that the velcro on the strap was on opposite sides. It was very light, gave a very secure feeling to the lute when I stood with it, and worked well for two years or so that I used that lute (it was borrowed/rented from a local college, while I played in their Collegium). I think I left it with the lute, but removed the velcro (no damage to the lute finish whatsoever) and left a new set of patches in the case. I wish I'd kept it, now! If anyone knows of this kind of strap and where it is still being sold, I'd like to hear. Otherwise, it is something a person could figure out for themselves. It may have been patented or somesuch, but personal use (i.e., not selling) shouldn't upset anyone too much, if they're not being made anymore. ray On 7/9/07, Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I may have mentioned that my old Basel roommate Robert Clancy used to use that. I think he used a saxophone strap in place of a button on his clothing. I found it completely unstable. The thing flopped all over the place. On May 3, 2006, at 3:15 PM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Whilst the use of a loop round a button seemed, on the face of it, an eminently practical and sensible thoery; the difficulty I had was in making it work in practice. I asked if any one else had tried it and, I recall, only got a single response which echoed my own negative experience. Have you actually tried this method or do you know of anybody who has? More to the point if you, or others, have tried it what has been the experience? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap/gut loop
Yes, I recall you did mention this and I think yours was the sole response I mentioned at the time! However later I got an email plus photo attachment from Kenneth Be (8 May 2006) which shows a lute player (two headed lute c.1660) using what looks like TWO seperate ribbons attached to his waistcoat (American 'vest'): one fastened to the button on the top end of the back and one, presumably, going to an end button. I wrote 'EUREKA' at the time but, to my shame, haven't tried it yet (not having a stiff enough waistcoat). This picture ought to be found in the archives. A few others, including Robert Barto, expressed interest at the time but I've had no further reports. Since then, on pondering from time to time, I now think the answer may be one continous ribbon(strap) which crosses over the chest and thence round the back: this gives significantly increased friction and much reduces the tendency for the whole thing moving around (as found with my unsatisfactory earlier experience using a single loop fastened to these buttons but which just went around the back). I've tried this cross over loop in rough mock up mode and it seems promising but I need to find time to experiment more fully - perhaps others might try. One final thing to mention is that it gives the appearance of TWO ribbons coming out of the waistcoat as in the KB picture especially if the ribbon is put on underneath a waiscoat/vest which also increases the steadying/frictional effect. MH Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I may have mentioned that my old Basel roommate Robert Clancy used to use that. I think he used a saxophone strap in place of a button on his clothing. I found it completely unstable. The thing flopped all over the place. On May 3, 2006, at 3:15 PM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Whilst the use of a loop round a button seemed, on the face of it, an eminently practical and sensible thoery; the difficulty I had was in making it work in practice. I asked if any one else had tried it and, I recall, only got a single response which echoed my own negative experience. Have you actually tried this method or do you know of anybody who has? More to the point if you, or others, have tried it what has been the experience? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ - What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap/gut loop
Dear Martyn, I don't know the picture Kenneth was talking about (I wasn't on the list at that stage) but there's a Watteau painting of a woman playing a French theorbo with a strap arrangement which looks more like bondage! I've put it up for general consumption at http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/straps.htm plus a more familiar picture of a tight strap on a 12 course by Mieris. I'll try to assemble a gallery of other pictures showing strapping lute players! Best wishes, David At 17:09 +0100 9/7/07, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Yes, I recall you did mention this and I think yours was the sole response I mentioned at the time! However later I got an email plus photo attachment from Kenneth Be (8 May 2006) which shows a lute player (two headed lute c.1660) using what looks like TWO seperate ribbons attached to his waistcoat (American 'vest'): one fastened to the button on the top end of the back and one, presumably, going to an end button. I wrote 'EUREKA' at the time but, to my shame, haven't tried it yet (not having a stiff enough waistcoat). This picture ought to be found in the archives. A few others, including Robert Barto, expressed interest at the time but I've had no further reports. Since then, on pondering from time to time, I now think the answer may be one continous ribbon(strap) which crosses over the chest and thence round the back: this gives significantly increased friction and much reduces the tendency for the whole thing moving around (as found with my unsatisfactory earlier experience using a single loop fastened to these buttons but which just went around the back). I've tried this cross over loop in rough mock up mode and it seems promising but I need to find time to experiment more fully - perhaps others might try. One final thing to mention is that it gives the appearance of TWO ribbons coming out of the waistcoat as in the KB picture especially if the ribbon is put on underneath a waiscoat/vest which also increases the steadying/frictional effect. MH Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I may have mentioned that my old Basel roommate Robert Clancy used to use that. I think he used a saxophone strap in place of a button on his clothing. I found it completely unstable. The thing flopped all over the place. On May 3, 2006, at 3:15 PM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Whilst the use of a loop round a button seemed, on the face of it, an eminently practical and sensible thoery; the difficulty I had was in making it work in practice. I asked if any one else had tried it and, I recall, only got a single response which echoed my own negative experience. Have you actually tried this method or do you know of anybody who has? More to the point if you, or others, have tried it what has been the experience? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ - What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- The Smokehouse, 6 Whitwell Road, Norwich, NR1 4HB England. Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
[LUTE] Re: lute strap
I don't like the idea of a leather giutar strap either. From my teacher (Massimo Lonardi) I learned to use a simple strap: he prefers a black, non-slippering one, while I do use a silk coloured one. The most important detail, as far as I can tell, is to have a solid piece of string (5cm) tying your strap to the button of your lute , keeping the strap as close as possible to that button. The strap should laso be long enough to allow you to sit on the strap queue, therefore being good extra 75 cm longer. Massimo learned it from Hopkinson Smith many years ago. Being a tall guy (1,91m) I experimented a lot of different positions, but using a strap this way has proven to me as the most comfortable AND the stablest. Ciao, Luca JarosÅaw Lipski on 14-05-2007 19:20 wrote: Does anybody have an email contact to Janice Parkinson-Tucker? She was advertising her lute straps in the Lute Society of America magazine some time ago. Personally I don't like leather guitar straps for lutes and would be grateful if somebody gives me some details on where to get a nice lute strap via internet. Thank you Jaroslaw Lipski -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap/gut loop
Dear Stewart, Thank you for this. However you're mistaken in thinking it not important wether the gut loop was from the 18thC. The gut could, for example, have been put on anytime after the instrument's last use as a Gallichon/Mandora; perhaps to hang it on a wall as a decorative feature (particularly popular in 20thC) or perhaps to help in holding the instrument by a guitarist (say, in the mid 19thC during the period of great experimentation with guitars - it's interesting to see that the earlier tied frets [marks on back of neck] were replaced at some time by fixed ivory frets). In neither case would it therefore directly inform us of lute holding practice in the 18thC. To elaborate: the Stautinger gut was a single string fastened with no slack between the two pins with a loop about an inch and a half in diameter tied about half way along. If it was contemporary with the use of the instrument in the 18thC in might, indeed, tell us something about practice on the 18thC (and even earlier) lute but if we choose to ignore the uncertainty over the date it might as easily mislead us into assuming that this was the usual method of tying a gut loop between the two pins(buttons) on a lute. Perhaps, in fact, the early practice was for a much longer loop hung round the neck - who knows? Actually I do think the Stautinger fastening the more likely but it's important to recognise that the provenance is not known and we must therefore be very chary in drawing conclusions. A particular problem is making this sort of loop work in practice - after a number of requests I've found no one who can get satisfactory results: as Ed Durbrow amusingly replied to my previous enquiry (April 2005) about wether anyone had tried it Yes, horribly unstable, but good for a spin a la ZZ Top.. ; this echoes my own experiences. I'm interested to know that you haven't tried it yet - perhaps you could and let me know your views in due course. The table method can work but one needs to sit upright and hold the instrument higher than most modern players care to but, on the basis of early evidence, was commonly the practice of the Old Ones. An added advantage seems to be enhanced resonance (shades of the Tripodion). rgds Martyn PS If you look in The LuteVol XXVI Part 2 1986 on page 56 you'll see photos of the Stautinger instrument and in the top RH photo might just make out the gut string on the back. Not having seen the instrument for over 20 years, I don't know wether the loop is still there. The photos also nicely show the marks of earlier gut frets on the back of the neck. tewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Martyn, Very interesting what you say about the Stautinger gallichon. Whether or not the gut was from the 18th century is not so important. The main thing is that gut was tied to the buttons of the instrument at some stage. It's not a decorative feature, so it must have been put there for a practical reason. I see no reason to doubt Robert Spencer's hypothsesis that gut was tied to the back of instruments to help stabilise them. To answer your question, I have not tried playing a lute with gut tied at the back, so I have no first-hand practical experience to relate. Yet even if I had, and, like you, had not found the gut idea helpful, that in itself wouldn't preclude the possibility of other players in the past having used gut to stabilise the lute. From time to time I have followed Thomas Mace's suggestion of leaning the lute against a table, but without much success. You are right that this question has been discussed on this list before. There was also a message to the Italian Lute Net on 12th May 2002, which gives a further reference to _Early Music_: -o-O-o- Si può vedere anche quadri di bottoni e di cinghie in un altro articolo di Robert Spencer, Chitarrone, theorbo, and archlute, _Early Music_ vol 4 no.4 (Oct. 1976), pp. 407-423. David van Edwards ha messo quest' articolo sul suo website: http://www.vanedwar.macunlimited.net/spencer/html/index.html -o-O-o- In other words: You can also see pictures of buttons and straps in another article by Robert Spencer, Chitarrone, theorbo, and archlute, _Early Music_ vol 4 no.4 (Oct. 1976), pp. 407-423. David van Edwards has put this article on his website. As part of that discussion, Pietro Prosser put forward the idea that one could attach a strap to the two buttons, instead of a piece of gut. This was in turn discounted with reference to David van Edwards' website, where he writes: Certainly several surviving lutes in museums have the buttons and in some cases either the string, usually of gut, or at least grooves in the varnish showing where it was tightly tied. Yes, it would be nice to hear from someone who has had success with this particular method of stabilising the lute. Best wishes, Stewart. - Original
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap/gut loop
We all have our favorite ways of supporting the lute while we play, but this particular strap/loop method requires an addition to the construction of the lute: a second strap peg fitted near the base of the neck where the neck meets the body. I've never seen a lute actually from the 16th or 17th century, but I've seen plenty of historical copies of particular lutes from the renaissance/Baroque made by present-day luthiers, and not one has had such a strap peg . I've never even heard of it as an added feature. Surely if this strap/gut loop method of supporting the lute was widely used, then at least some of the surviving lutes would have had these pegs in them. Wouldn't the pegs have been included in renaissance/Baroque luthiers' plans and drawings? I guess what I'm saying is, with all the historical copies that have been cranked out over the last 30 years or so, why has this strap/loop thing not been common knowledge, and widely used today as it was back then: particularly since there should be some evidence on early lutes in the form of the extra strap peg? David Rastall On May 3, 2006, at 2:15 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Dear Stewart, The business of holding lutes with straps/ gut loops was aired about a year ago and you'll no doubt find the communications in the archives. At the time I was particularly interested in the gut loop option since, in the late 70s, I had done some restoration work on a Gallichon/Mandora (Stautinger 1773) which not only had these buttons on the body but also actually had a loop of gut tied between them; wether the gut loop was 18thC is, of course, quite another matter. Whilst the use of a loop round a button seemed, on the face of it, an eminently practical and sensible thoery; the difficulty I had was in making it work in practice. I asked if any one else had tried it and, I recall, only got a single response which echoed my own negative experience. Have you actually tried this method or do you know of anybody who has? More to the point if you, or others, have tried it what has been the experience? MH Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Craig and Katherine, An alternative to using a strap, which was used in the 17th Century, is to tie a gut string between two pegs on the body of the instrument. One peg is where you'd expect to see a peg, i.e. in the middle of the end clasp; the other peg is fixed through the middle rib just before the body joins the neck. The string is tied so that it lies flush with the middle rib, and you hook it over a button on your coat to stabilise the lute. It is thought that Mouton may be holding his lute this way in that famous picture of him. If you think the artist hasn't quite got it right, and the lute looks as if it is suspended in front of the player as if by magic, it is possible that it is being held in this way. There is an article by Robert Spencer in _Early Music_, with a picture of the back of a lute, showing the gut string tied between two pegs. I could look up the reference if you want. If you play the lute standing up, and without a strap or a piece of string between two pegs, you have to use your left hand to support the instrument. This can be satisfactory for short periods, but can cause irritation to the part of the hand holding the neck, unaccustomed to the friction involved. Barré chords are problematic, so you may have to tinker with the music a bit, e.g. change |\ | |\ | |\ | ___a_ _f__e|_a__||_ ___d_|_c__||_ _e___|_c__||_ __c__|_c__||_ _|_a__||_ to |\ | |\ | |\ | _a_a_ _a__e|_a__||_ _a_d_|_c__||_ _|||_ __c__|||_ _|_a__||_ Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: Craig Allen To: Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute straps Katherine Davies wrote: There are lots of renaissance pictures of people playing lutes while standing up without any sign of a strap. Does anyone do this? Any ideas on how - or if - it could be done? I'm not having a go at strap-users; I'm just a bit puzzled - I have enough trouble keeping the thing in place when I'm sitting down. A good friend of mine has been doing studies into the Medieval harp and all the iconography she's seen shows what she calls the magically levitating harp. No sign of a strap or other gadget to rest it on the knees (one harper I know has a crossbar on a wooden knob that fits into the sound hole in the back of the harp and the crossbar rests on his knees). She's been trying to figure out whether there is some sort of mechanism in place that the painted didn't see or if the painters simply didn't understand how the instrument is played took artiztic license. Ive tried playing the lute standing up without a strap and
[LUTE] Re: Lute strap/gut loop
Perhaps modern luthiers don't attach these pegs because they don't work so well with modern clothing? I haven't tried it, but I guess that the usefulness and comfort of hanging a lute off your button will be strongly dependant on your clothes. For much of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries most people were wearing tightly fitting, strong, stiff clothing, with many buttons down the front. This would give a solid panel to hang a lute off without distorting the clothing in uncomfortable ways, and a choice of many attachment points to get just the right height. I can't imagine it working quite so comfortably with a modern shirt. About scratching: buttons on surviving 16th and 17thC clothing are, more often than not, wooden forms covered in thread - not likely to scratch varnish much. best wishes, Katherine Davies --- David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We all have our favorite ways of supporting the lute while we play, but this particular strap/loop method requires an addition to the construction of the lute: a second strap peg fitted near the base of the neck where the neck meets the body. I've never seen a lute actually from the 16th or 17th century, but I've seen plenty of historical copies of particular lutes from the renaissance/Baroque made by present-day luthiers, and not one has had such a strap peg . I've never even heard of it as an added feature. Surely if this strap/gut loop method of supporting the lute was widely used, then at least some of the surviving lutes would have had these pegs in them. Wouldn't the pegs have been included in renaissance/Baroque luthiers' plans and drawings? I guess what I'm saying is, with all the historical copies that have been cranked out over the last 30 years or so, why has this strap/loop thing not been common knowledge, and widely used today as it was back then: particularly since there should be some evidence on early lutes in the form of the extra strap peg? David Rastall To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
