[LUTE] Re: Theorbo shipping within the U.S
My short DHL story: They sent the instrument, DHL messed up the paperwork. I had to send the instrument BACK to Amsterdam, and then BACK to America. Nice, huh? Three trips. dt At 06:15 AM 3/22/2011, you wrote: Hello Kakinami, Actually, I'm glad you sent this post because DHL is shipping within the United States and I forgot about them as a possibility. Thank you, The Other Stephen Stubbs Champaign, IL To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo shipping within the U.S
Wondering if anyone's shipped a big instrument lately, and has any recommendations. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo shipping within the U.S
I have sold a couple of instruments on Wayne's list in the past year and bought another, which was shipped to me from the UK. The onen from the UK came DHL last December and there was a week when I am pretty sure DHL did not have a clue where it was. I called several times a day and can guarantee you that their employees are trained to say reassuring things. I finally got the instrument when a wonderful lady in the San Francisco warehouse heard my story, found the instrument and put it in her car on her way home from work to hand deliver it to me in the local Starbuck's warehouse. About 2 months later I got a letter from DHL asking me to pay some duty and recently I have had a letter from the California tax people wanting tax because I bought something from outside the country. I don't mind paying, but it seem that they are very disorganized not to ask for the money before I got the instrument. The 2 instruments I sold were shipped Fed Ex ground and things worked great. The only challenge was getting a box big enough to put the instruments into with a lot of bubble wrap and packaging around it. I called a local luthier and he recommended the biggest box that UHaul sells and it worked great. Nancy At 01:29 PM 3/21/2011, howard posner wrote: Wondering if anyone's shipped a big instrument lately, and has any recommendations. To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web sites - [2]www.nancycarlinassociates.com [3]www.groundsanddivisions.info Representing: FROM WALES - Crasdant Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe Jez Lowe The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths Morrongiello Young Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [4]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 3. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 4. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo shipping within the U.S
My experience was similar to Nancy's, but with UPS. They had no idea about the status of the instrument, it got stuck in customs, and the buyer got stuck with a huge tax bill for a bunch of things of which we were never made aware. It also arrived with a small amount of damage to a peg. I don't know about the US Postal Service (I'm in Canada), but I've always found Canada Post excellent for shipping such things. Efficient, cheap, and they know where thing are. UPS also vastly overcharged me for packaging, which was done with something less than skilled hands. FedEx might be the way to go, but I'd also see if the Postal Service offers a comparable service for a reasonable price. Best, Graham Freeman On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Nancy Carlin [1]na...@nancycarlinassociates.com wrote: I have sold a couple of instruments on Wayne's list in the past year and bought another, which was shipped to me from the UK. The onen from the UK came DHL last December and there was a week when I am pretty sure DHL did not have a clue where it was. I called several times a day and can guarantee you that their employees are trained to say reassuring things. I finally got the instrument when a wonderful lady in the San Francisco warehouse heard my story, found the instrument and put it in her car on her way home from work to hand deliver it to me in the local Starbuck's warehouse. About 2 months later I got a letter from DHL asking me to pay some duty and recently I have had a letter from the California tax people wanting tax because I bought something from outside the country. I don't mind paying, but it seem that they are very disorganized not to ask for the money before I got the instrument. The 2 instruments I sold were shipped Fed Ex ground and things worked great. The only challenge was getting a box big enough to put the instruments into with a lot of bubble wrap and packaging around it. I called a local luthier and he recommended the biggest box that UHaul sells and it worked great. Nancy At 01:29 PM 3/21/2011, howard posner wrote: Wondering if anyone's shipped a big instrument lately, and has any recommendations. To get on or off this list see list information at [1][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone [3]925/686-5800 fax [4]925/680-2582 web sites - [2][5]www.nancycarlinassociates.com [3][6]www.groundsanddivisions.info Representing: FROM WALES - Crasdant Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe Jez Lowe The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths Morrongiello Young Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [4][7]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. [9]http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 3. [10]http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 4. [11]http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [12]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. mailto:na...@nancycarlinassociates.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. tel:925%2F686-5800 4. tel:925%2F680-2582 5. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 6. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 7. http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org/ 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 10. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 11. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ 12. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo shipping within the U.S
I am a newbie lute player who had a Dan Larson lute shipped from Duluth, MN to Madison, WI last spring -- via FedEx. It was one of the easier shipping experiences I have ever lived through -- the lute was very well packed, in excellent condition upon arrival, and my three cats have been playing with the very large cardboard box ever since, which is a plus from their point of view. -- Catherine Arnott Smith, PhD Assistant Professor School of Library and Information Studies University of Wisconsin-Madison Music is neither old nor modern: it is either good or bad music, and the date at which it was written has no significance whatever. (Peter Warlock - The Sackbut - 1926) Be sure you choose what you believe and know why you believe it, because if you don't choose your beliefs, you may be certain that some belief, and probably not a very creditable one, will choose you. Robertson Davies, The Manticore (London: Penguin, 1972; pp. 477-478) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo shipping within the U.S
The good things about Fed Ex are their tracking system and insurance policies. When I have applied for work visas for non-American musicians Fed Ex has been great both in the US and in delivering paperwork to other parts of the world. But nobody ever said they were cheap. Nancy At 03:03 PM 3/21/2011, Graham Freeman wrote: My experience was similar to Nancy's, but with UPS. They had no idea about the status of the instrument, it got stuck in customs, and the buyer got stuck with a huge tax bill for a bunch of things of which we were never made aware. It also arrived with a small amount of damage to a peg. I don't know about the US Postal Service (I'm in Canada), but I've always found Canada Post excellent for shipping such things. Efficient, cheap, and they know where thing are. UPS also vastly overcharged me for packaging, which was done with something less than skilled hands. FedEx might be the way to go, but I'd also see if the Postal Service offers a comparable service for a reasonable price. Best, Graham Freeman On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Nancy Carlin [1]na...@nancycarlinassociates.com wrote: I have sold a couple of instruments on Wayne's list in the past year and bought another, which was shipped to me from the UK. The onen from the UK came DHL last December and there was a week when I am pretty sure DHL did not have a clue where it was. I called several times a day and can guarantee you that their employees are trained to say reassuring things. I finally got the instrument when a wonderful lady in the San Francisco warehouse heard my story, found the instrument and put it in her car on her way home from work to hand deliver it to me in the local Starbuck's warehouse. About 2 months later I got a letter from DHL asking me to pay some duty and recently I have had a letter from the California tax people wanting tax because I bought something from outside the country. I don't mind paying, but it seem that they are very disorganized not to ask for the money before I got the instrument. The 2 instruments I sold were shipped Fed Ex ground and things worked great. The only challenge was getting a box big enough to put the instruments into with a lot of bubble wrap and packaging around it. I called a local luthier and he recommended the biggest box that UHaul sells and it worked great. Nancy At 01:29 PM 3/21/2011, howard posner wrote: Wondering if anyone's shipped a big instrument lately, and has any recommendations. To get on or off this list see list information at [1][2][1] http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone [3]925/686-5800 fax [4]925/680-2582 web sites - [2][5]www.nancycarlinassociates.com [3][6]www.groundsanddivisions.info Representing: FROM WALES - Crasdant Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe Jez Lowe The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths Morrongiello Young Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [4][7]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. [9]http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 3. [10]http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 4. [11]http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [12]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. [2]mailto:na...@nancycarlinassociates.com 2. [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. tel:925%2F686-5800 4. tel:925%2F680-2582 5. [4]http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 6. [5]http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 7. [6]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org/ 8. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. [8]http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 10. [9]http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 11. [10]http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ 12. [11]mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo shipping within the U.S
Non US-related. I had a guitar shipped to me through UPS within Europe recently. Supplier packed the instrument: Guitar in case. Bubble wrap (huge specimen, like balloons). Sturdy box. Foam corners, serious impact/shock absorbers. Another sturdy box. UPS rang the door when I wasn't in and left a note about a 'big box'. It sure was. Guitar was safe, in tune even! David - guitar is lovingly referred to as 'grote doos' ever since On 21 March 2011 21:29, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: Wondering if anyone's shipped a big instrument lately, and has any recommendations. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl ***
[LUTE] Theorbo shipping within the U.S
A sensitive advice: avoid UPS at all cost. They have stolen an instrument from me, and not payed for it to the date. They were not only incompetent, but also rude and disrespectful (both, USA and Spanish branchs) The instrument was later seen on ebay for sale. No need to say more, I guess :) best, ariel. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo shipping within the U.S
My theorbo, which I think is pretty much the same as Howard's, came (years ago) from Germany via UPS. Things to be careful of: * UPS, and probably the others, have size limitations - maximum on length + width + height (or length + circumference, I forget which). The theorbo in its box was right at the limit. * Make sure the instrument can't move in the case. Mine shifted in the case and sheared off a peg on the upper pegbox. (When it moved the first thing that encountered the top of the case was a peg.) Fortunately it was a spare peg for an alternate stringing and I just super-glued it back together. Wedge some foam between the top of the case and the sturdy part of the upper pegbox. ..Bob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo shipping within the U.S
If you look at FedEx's insurance policies ( http://www.fedex.com/us/service-guide/terms/express-ground/ ) you will see that.. 6. Shipments (packages or freight) containing all or part of the following items are limited to a maximum declared value of US$1,000: Guitars and other musical instruments that are more than 20 years old, and customized or personalized musical instruments. I believe that all theorbos are custom, or old. So be careful! Wayne Begin forwarded message: From: Nancy Carlin na...@nancycarlinassociates.com The good things about Fed Ex are their tracking system and insurance policies. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo strings
Hi Caius, I absolutely agree with David - there is nothing better than a gut strung theorbo and it's much easier to keep under control than a gut strung lute. Also, unless you have an enormous instrument, the highest strings will not be as thin as they get on a lute, so there will be less chance of them breaking unexpectedly or wearing out during a concert. Are you still using wound strings for the low basses? These should be the first to go! I liked the old Sofracob double-twist gut for the basses, but since you can't get it now Gamut basses might be a good option. On the fingerboard I normally use Aquila half-rectified for strings 1-4, Aquila Venice for string 5 and Stoppani high-twist for string 6 (or a wound string for later repertoire). But I'm still experimenting with other strings, especially for the trebles. The problem with Nylon is that it sounds sweet but lacks the overtones and brightness of gut, so it doesn't project so well (as David points out). I don't have much experience with Carbon, but I imagine the thinness of the higher strings could make them unpleasant to play and the sound lacks depth and quality. The flexibility of Nylgut always gives me the impression that the tension of the string is lower than it actually is - after playing on real gut for a couple of years, I don't feel that nylgut is a very good substitute anymore. Perhaps New Nylgut will be more convincing? Looking forward to playing together in the summer... Sam On 19 December 2010 10:01, hera caius [1]caiush2...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello lutenists, As I played theorbo really a lot this months, I started to wonder about the sound of the strings. In this moment I use some Nylon and carbon in the high registers and some copper on the basses and it sounds really good but the basses sounds too long and the tension of the treble strings is too low. Can anyone give me some ideas what kind of strings I can try (with sound closer to gut), and where can I buy? Thank you. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 -- References 1. mailto:caiush2...@yahoo.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo strings
Hello, I would kindly suggest to all our customers not to confuse internal chat of lute society with pretty private questions concerning customer and company. The statement What has happend with Aquilla? could cause false allarms to guys and to our customers. For this specific case the problem should indeed be reverted: 'What has happened to Anton Hoger'? He placed his order on 08.10.12. The strings were ready in few hours. We mailed him to inform him that the strings were ready on 15/10, 22/10, 26.10, 4/11, 10/11. We riceived no reply. My best regards Marry Christmas! MP -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo strings
Hello lutenists, As I played theorbo really a lot this months, I started to wonder about the sound of the strings. In this moment I use some Nylon and carbon in the high registers and some copper on the basses and it sounds really good but the basses sounds too long and the tension of the treble strings is too low. Can anyone give me some ideas what kind of strings I can try (with sound closer to gut), and where can I buy? Thank you. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo strings
On 19 December 2010 10:01, hera caius caiush2...@yahoo.com wrote: As I played theorbo really a lot this months, I started to wonder about .. Can anyone give me some ideas what kind of strings I can try (with sound closer to gut), Sorry to be stating the obvious, but have you thought about ... gut? It tends to sound pretty close to ... well, gut, actually. A single strung theorbo is fairly stable in gut, so have no fears about tuning. And theorbo strings are not too thin, you were talking about higher string tensions, even, so have no fear of breaking strings either. For the diapassons get Dan Larson's Diapasson gut, these are really great. (Although I know some misers who use fret gut, and I must admit from occasional personal experience that it works pretty well ;-). For the top, anything will do: Kürschner, Aquila, Gamut, Torro, Universale, local butcher, whatever. Strings 5, 6 (and 7 if you have it on the fingerboard) might need some experimenting to find a sound you're happy with. A theorbo in all-gut is a mighty beast, projecting to the back of a church with ease. I had the opportunity to compare mine (all-gut, lowish tension, no-nails) with a friend's (carbon top, overspun basses, _much_ higher tension, nails) in a Maria Vespers shoot-out recently, and although from up-close he appeared louder, I won in the back of the church. Hands down. These were not equal instruments, and our techniques differ considerably, but still, the strings seemed to be an important factor in the result. But I hear there are strings with the actual colour (would you believe it!) of gut these days, so you might feel tempted. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo strings
If the bass sounds too long, dampen the string. Mersenne gives I think 20 seconds for the duration of the tone. So you can time it and see :) dt At 01:01 AM 12/19/2010, you wrote: Hello lutenists, As I played theorbo really a lot this months, I started to wonder about the sound of the strings. In this moment I use some Nylon and carbon in the high registers and some copper on the basses and it sounds really good but the basses sounds too long and the tension of the treble strings is too low. Can anyone give me some ideas what kind of strings I can try (with sound closer to gut), and where can I buy? Thank you. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
Surely, you jest. Fat's Waller was a master musician and a virtuoso pianist and organist, and an accomplished singer. I was quoting Milt Jackson. I thought the story had relevance in light of Eugene Braig IV's post. Gary - Original Message - From: [1]jean-michel Catherinot To: [2]Gary Digman ; [3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 12:55 AM Subject: Re : [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. Do you think that six chords music is necesseraly worse than more complex music? To stay in jazz world, Fats Waller was a kind of six chords player, and a show man. And he was great too! What I like in his music is his sound and his swing. That's exactly what I find in Private Musicke, much more than in any other ensemble of this kind. And about so-called latin american way of strumming, just read Corbetta instructions and try to play repico as he describes it... __ De : Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net A : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Envoye le : Mer 17 novembre 2010, 10h 00min 08s Objet : [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. After the Modern Jazz Quartet retired, Milt Jackson was interviewed. During the interview he complained that some kid who only know six chords makes more in one night than we made in twenty years. Later an interviewer asked John Lewis about Milt Jackson's complaint. John Lewis replied, I thought we made a good living. That's show business. We're musicians not show people. That's show business. There's no business like it. Gary - Original Message - From: Eugene C. Braig IV [4]brai...@osu.edu To: 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' [5]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:24 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier [10]br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Fruehe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen [11]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [12]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [14]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3260 - Release Date: 11/15/10 23:34:00 ___ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3265 - Release Date: 11/18/10 11:34:00 -- References 1. mailto:jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:magg...@sonic.net 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:brai...@osu.edu 5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A 7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY 8. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 10. mailto:br...@estavel.org 11. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 12. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 14. http
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
Do you think that six chords music is necesseraly worse than more complex music? To stay in jazz world, Fats Waller was a kind of six chords player, and a show man. And he was great too! What I like in his music is his sound and his swing. That's exactly what I find in Private Musicke, much more than in any other ensemble of this kind. And about so-called latin american way of strumming, just read Corbetta instructions and try to play repico as he describes it... __ De : Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net A : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Envoye le : Mer 17 novembre 2010, 10h 00min 08s Objet : [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. After the Modern Jazz Quartet retired, Milt Jackson was interviewed. During the interview he complained that some kid who only know six chords makes more in one night than we made in twenty years. Later an interviewer asked John Lewis about Milt Jackson's complaint. John Lewis replied, I thought we made a good living. That's show business. We're musicians not show people. That's show business. There's no business like it. Gary - Original Message - From: Eugene C. Braig IV [1]brai...@osu.edu To: 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' [2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:24 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: [5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier [7]br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Fruehe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen [8]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [9]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [11]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3260 - Release Date: 11/15/10 23:34:00 -- References 1. mailto:brai...@osu.edu 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY 5. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:br...@estavel.org 8. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 9. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. http://www.avg.com/
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
Ariel, I couldnt resist, the joke. Hope you are fine. The other day I saw your CD in a huge CD-store and that was still in the back of my mind. Hope you will release something on your Josquin project soon. All the best Werner Am 17.11.10 13:05, schrieb Ariel Abramovich: Sorry, I look a lot better than that guy! :) Oh My God, I did'nt know that Ariel Abramovich is such a huge hit in the states ;-) we Am 15.11.10 16:24, schrieb Eugene C. Braig IV: It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[4]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier[5]br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Fruehe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen [6]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [7]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:br...@estavel.org 6. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 7. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
After the Modern Jazz Quartet retired, Milt Jackson was interviewed. During the interview he complained that some kid who only know six chords makes more in one night than we made in twenty years. Later an interviewer asked John Lewis about Milt Jackson's complaint. John Lewis replied, I thought we made a good living. That's show business. We're musicians not show people. That's show business. There's no business like it. Gary - Original Message - From: Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu To: 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:24 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Frühe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3260 - Release Date: 11/15/10 23:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
Oh My God, I did'nt know that Ariel Abramovich is such a huge hit in the states ;-) we Am 15.11.10 16:24, schrieb Eugene C. Braig IV: It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournierbr...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Frühe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
Sorry, I look a lot better than that guy! :) Oh My God, I did'nt know that Ariel Abramovich is such a huge hit in the states ;-) we Am 15.11.10 16:24, schrieb Eugene C. Braig IV: It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournierbr...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Frühe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas :) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Frühe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
I agree with Wikla, long live variety and strumming. I was at the Kozena concert in Hamburg, and it was a great experience. What I liked was, that the instrumentalists had their own pieces and were not hired mercenaries. And hey, whenever did people outside our esoteric circle got to hear a colascione solo part? picking and strumming we Am 12.11.10 21:55, schrieb wikla: I personally would allow all the flowers blossom. Variety is the strength of our music. And so it used to be. And so it is also in the music we hear every day! I wouldn't like - perhaps even wouldn't tolerate - any besserwisser to tell us the _one and only_ right way of doing anything . (Btw: this holds also to one of the very tiniest things in EM, the use of bourdons in b-guitars' 4th and 5th... ;-) And long live strumming - not only the ethnic one... And up with variety of variance! :) Arto On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:29:18 -0500, Bruno Fournierbr...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't get me wrong, I love strumming, but I prefer to hear it in Latin american music. A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Bernd Haegemann[1...@symbol4.de wrote: Yesterday we watched a very nice concert. As it seems it also on youtube: [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:b...@symbol4.de 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Frühe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
And I heard the same singer perform Mahler live last year with the Cleveland Orchestra. Quite versatile. On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:16 PM, David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier [2]br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Fruehe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen [3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [4]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. mailto:br...@estavel.org 3. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 4. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
And she does a fine job singing three Handel Italian Cantatas - with Les Musiciens du Louvre - on an Archiv recording. On Nov 13, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote: And I heard the same singer perform Mahler live last year with the Cleveland Orchestra. Quite versatile. On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:16 PM, David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier [2]br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Fruehe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen [3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [4]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. mailto:br...@estavel.org 3. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 4. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
And let's not forget her singing of Bach cantata 113, Herr Jesu Christ, du hoechstes Gut, with Sir John Eliot Gardiner and band, a favorite around our house. Donna Ron Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:45:38 -0500 To: kidneykut...@gmail.com CC: davidvanooi...@gmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: nedma...@aol.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. And she does a fine job singing three Handel Italian Cantatas - with Les Musiciens du Louvre - on an Archiv recording. On Nov 13, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote: And I heard the same singer perform Mahler live last year with the Cleveland Orchestra. Quite versatile. On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:16 PM, David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier [2]br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Fruehe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen [3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [4]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. mailto:br...@estavel.org 3. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 4. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
Yesterday we watched a very nice concert. As it seems it also on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
ok, in our concert there was a theorbo, played by Senor Baena. On the video is a wooden box instead , for sure one of the devices with which the CIA influence the weather. B - Original Message - From: Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. Yesterday we watched a very nice concert. As it seems it also on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't get me wrong, I love strumming, but I prefer to hear it in Latin american music. A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Bernd Haegemann [1...@symbol4.de wrote: Yesterday we watched a very nice concert. As it seems it also on youtube: [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:b...@symbol4.de 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Frühe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
This is much the same line up that performed Italian repertoire at the Edinburgh Festival which was broadcast on the radio. We discussed it on the vihuela list and I think we all hated it. Love the plunging neckline though. I wonder if anyone would pay me to appear in public like that. Monica - Original Message - From: Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. Yesterday we watched a very nice concert. As it seems it also on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
yes it's a bit of a circus isn't it.A A I just wonder where we can draw the lineA I've even stopped putting on medieval costumes for my medieval gigs.. A Bruno On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Monica Hall [1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: This is much the same line up that performed Italian repertoire at the Edinburgh Festival which was broadcast on the radio. A We discussed it on the vihuela list and I think we all hated it. Love the plunging neckline though. A I wonder if anyone would pay me to appear in public like that. Monica - Original Message - From: Bernd Haegemann [2...@symbol4.de To: [3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. Yesterday we watched a very nice concert. As it seems it also on youtube: [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 2. mailto:b...@symbol4.de 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
I personally would allow all the flowers blossom. Variety is the strength of our music. And so it used to be. And so it is also in the music we hear every day! I wouldn't like - perhaps even wouldn't tolerate - any besserwisser to tell us the _one and only_ right way of doing anything . (Btw: this holds also to one of the very tiniest things in EM, the use of bourdons in b-guitars' 4th and 5th... ;-) And long live strumming - not only the ethnic one... And up with variety of variance! :) Arto On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:29:18 -0500, Bruno Fournier br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't get me wrong, I love strumming, but I prefer to hear it in Latin american music. A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Bernd Haegemann [1...@symbol4.de wrote: Yesterday we watched a very nice concert. As it seems it also on youtube: [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:b...@symbol4.de 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
On 12/11/2010 20:55, wikla wrote: I personally would allow all the flowers blossom. Variety is the strength of our music. And so it used to be. Well.. maybe. Might those instruments have been used together for that music at that time? If not, and if the musicians want to perform the music in any way they want, then why even bother with carefully researched reconstructions of seventeenth century instruments? I think that this is the ensemble that played at Edinburgh earlier this year and I heard the radio broadcast. They included a piece which the announcer said was by Foscarini. In their performance each piece segued into the next so it wasn't entirely clear which piece was which, but the piece that presumably was the Foscarini was a very pleasing tuneful thing. Now Foscarini's music is endlessly interesting and much discussed on the vihuela list. But everything in the Foscarini tablatures is deeply problematic. (For a start: no bar lines, and familiar musical forms like dances and the passacaglia in Foscarini can only be very free versions - with not much hope of clear 4 bar, 8 bar sections etc) Was this piece presented in the concert really, genuinely somewhere in Foscarini? Well I certainly hope so - but I can't imagine where it would be in the first four books and it's no more likely to be in the fifth (and that's all there is). Well I suppose the piece they played really is by Foscarini - some kind of reconstruction? Surely?? Foscarini's music is for solo guitar and a duet (or more?). But the piece that this ensemble played - as by Foscarini - was in arrangement with the other instruments. Depending on how it is done, that it very plausible. Stuart And so it is also in the music we hear every day! I wouldn't like - perhaps even wouldn't tolerate - any besserwisser to tell us the _one and only_ right way of doing anything . (Btw: this holds also to one of the very tiniest things in EM, the use of bourdons in b-guitars' 4th and 5th... ;-) And long live strumming - not only the ethnic one... And up with variety of variance! :) Arto On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:29:18 -0500, Bruno Fournierbr...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't get me wrong, I love strumming, but I prefer to hear it in Latin american music. A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Bernd Haegemann[1...@symbol4.de wrote: Yesterday we watched a very nice concert. As it seems it also on youtube: [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:b...@symbol4.de 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4j_WRqd68feature=related 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo treatises
On 11/01/2010 04:44 PM, Sam Chapman wrote: Hi, perhaps a more interesting book is delair's treatise of 1690: accompaniment on theorbo and harpsichord. I have a pdf of the english version which is not longer available. Grenerin and fleury contain several mistakes. Taco Dear Shaun, I was just looking for these as well. As far as I know there are no translations, but Bartolomi, Fleury and Grenerin are more or less understandable from their music examples alone (helped by a very basic knowledge of French). Are you looking for Campion's 1716 treatise (in which he talks about harmony and accompaniment in general) or the Addition au traite d'accompaniment from 1730 (which is much larger, and contains more specific info about theorbo, lute and guitar)? If the latter, there is an article by Kevin Mason: Franc,ois Campions Secret of Accompaniment for the Theorbo, Guitar and Lute. This is in Journal of LSA, Vol XIV (1981). Mason sums up Campion's main points. You can find a modern edition of Grenerin here: [1]http://luthlibrairie.free.fr/?Baroque:Fran%26ccedil%3Baise I think there might be some mistakes in it, but I haven't been able to get hold of the facsimile to check it. In LSA Journal Vol XIX (1986) you can find a review of the facsimile edition, again by Kevin Mason, which contains some interesting information. Good luck, and let me know if you find anything else! Sam 2010/10/30 Shaun Ng[2]shaunk...@gmail.com Dear All, Does anyone happen to know if there are English translations of the following treatises and if they are available (either original or translation) online? Angelo Michele Bartolotti: Table pour apprendre facilement `a toucher le theorbe sur la basse-continue (Paris, 1669) Franc,ois Campion: Traite d'accompagnement et de composition selon la regle des octaves de musique, op.2 (Paris, 1716/R) Henry Grenerin: Livre de theorbe contenant plusieurs pieces sur differents tons, avec une nouvelle methode tres facile pour apprendre `a jouer sur la partie les basses continues et toutes sortes dairs Thanks very much in advance. Shaun -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 -- References 1. http://luthlibrairie.free.fr/?Baroque:Fran%26ccedil%3Baise 2. mailto:shaunk...@gmail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo treatises
Dear Shaun, I was just looking for these as well. As far as I know there are no translations, but Bartolomi, Fleury and Grenerin are more or less understandable from their music examples alone (helped by a very basic knowledge of French). Are you looking for Campion's 1716 treatise (in which he talks about harmony and accompaniment in general) or the Addition au traite d'accompaniment from 1730 (which is much larger, and contains more specific info about theorbo, lute and guitar)? If the latter, there is an article by Kevin Mason: Franc,ois Campions Secret of Accompaniment for the Theorbo, Guitar and Lute. This is in Journal of LSA, Vol XIV (1981). Mason sums up Campion's main points. You can find a modern edition of Grenerin here: [1]http://luthlibrairie.free.fr/?Baroque:Fran%26ccedil%3Baise I think there might be some mistakes in it, but I haven't been able to get hold of the facsimile to check it. In LSA Journal Vol XIX (1986) you can find a review of the facsimile edition, again by Kevin Mason, which contains some interesting information. Good luck, and let me know if you find anything else! Sam 2010/10/30 Shaun Ng [2]shaunk...@gmail.com Dear All, Does anyone happen to know if there are English translations of the following treatises and if they are available (either original or translation) online? Angelo Michele Bartolotti: Table pour apprendre facilement `a toucher le theorbe sur la basse-continue (Paris, 1669) Franc,ois Campion: Traite d'accompagnement et de composition selon la regle des octaves de musique, op.2 (Paris, 1716/R) Henry Grenerin: Livre de theorbe contenant plusieurs pieces sur differents tons, avec une nouvelle methode tres facile pour apprendre `a jouer sur la partie les basses continues et toutes sortes dairs Thanks very much in advance. Shaun -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 -- References 1. http://luthlibrairie.free.fr/?Baroque:Fran%26ccedil%3Baise 2. mailto:shaunk...@gmail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo treatises
Dear All, Does anyone happen to know if there are English translations of the following treatises and if they are available (either original or translation) online? Angelo Michele Bartolotti: Table pour apprendre facilement `a toucher le theorbe sur la basse-continue (Paris, 1669) Franc,ois Campion: Traite d'accompagnement et de composition selon la regle des octaves de musique, op.2 (Paris, 1716/R) Henry Grenerin: Livre de theorbe contenant plusieurs pieces sur differents tons, avec une nouvelle methode tres facile pour apprendre `a jouer sur la partie les basses continues et toutes sortes dairs Thanks very much in advance. Shaun -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo for sale
Dear Luteplayers! Are You looking for something special? For some years I've played a 14-course Theorbo. Several photos here: http://www.luteonline.se/theorbo_for_sale_2010.htm It has the body of the instrument in the Germanisches Museum in Nürnberg (MIR 903) by Lepold Widhalm in 1755 and the same stringlength (74 cm.) for the stopped strings. But with a chitarrone-length (160 cm.) for the bordunes. The idea was to get the full sound of the d-minor baroque lute + the clear sound of the low basses of the chitarrone. I have used it for playing solo-theorbo music by Visée, transcriptions of the Bach cello-suites and my own pieces. The tuning has been the normal theorbo-tuning in A with single strings on all 14 strings. The instrument was made by Josef Kreisel (Germany) in 2005. Now, why am I selling it when it is such a great instrument? Well, since I liked it so much I ordered another one from the same maker just to have a stand in if something would happen. But after getting the new one and spending some time playing it, the original was just standing around, and that have been for two years now. AND I need a new PC and HD-camcorder for future videoproductions! So, take Your chance. A new instrument with a hard cover case costs today about EUR 4300. I bought this instrument for EUR 3600 and You will get it for EUR 3000! You can hear and see the instrument on these two You tube videos: Troll Eyes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMJSAJY5QzAfeature=channel Josef Kreisel, Lutemaker (in the very end of this video you can see both instruments.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PwiZ6KqNbofeature=channel I live in Sweden and at the end of november I'll be in Münich and Alteglofsheim (Bavaria) for a week. Let hear from You and we will make a date! All the best Stefan www.luteonline.se To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] wanted: French Prelude in e-minor for theorbo
Suggestions, anyone? Saizenay p. 306 is all I can come up with. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: wanted: French Prelude in e-minor for theorbo
There is another, anonymous, on p. 308. Furthermore, there are two by de Visee in Paris, Bibiliotheque National, R 1575, p. 93v and 94. Mathias David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com schrieb: Suggestions, anyone? Saizenay p. 306 is all I can come up with. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: wanted: French Prelude in e-minor for theorbo
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote: There is another, anonymous, on p. 308. Furthermore, there are two by de Visee in Paris, Bibiliotheque National, R 1575, p. 93v and 94. Danke! David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: d-minor theorbo specs
Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and experiences, on- and off-list. There's even a d-minor theorbo living just across the road, it turned out! Interesting. I have a follow-up question for continuo players. How easy is it to play compound, complicated figures on a d-minor theorbo? Or , to widen the question, what would be your favourite continuo instrument for high baroque, say Bach et al? I'm playing around on my 11-course but my continuo skills in this tuning are not good enough yet to have a real taste of what it could be like. Archlute in g' (with some scordatura to go down chromatically to low D) is easiest for me, but the sound is not always satisfying and it might not be the most historically correct choice for German repertoire. My theorbo in a (double reentrant) has a good sound, but I feel myself limited to keys with not too many flats, fairly simple figures and to bass lines that are not too high and not too chromatic. having said that, i do use it in the occasional Bach. What are the solutions other people adopt? David T. brings an A and a G instrument to some gigs, I believe. Yes, I occasionally do that too, but prefer to bring just one giraffe at a time. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] d-minor theorbo specs
The definition of a lute player is an instrumentalist who's always one instrument short. For me, the current missing instrument is a d-minor theorbo. What should be the specs? I know there a few of you playing such beasts (Benjamin?). I'm looking for enough chromatics in the bass to play Bach continuo without too many compromises, St John Passion obligato part as written. Large enough for gut basses on the fretboard, small enough for highest course d'. First proposition on the fingerboard: d' - a - f - d - A - G - F diapassons: E - Eb - D - C - B - A - G Single or double strings? Model? Historical examples? Anyone with experience? David - where to find the money ... -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: d-minor theorbo specs
David, I had a conversation with Stephen Stubbs the other night (us having a great deal in common by virtue of our both having owned theorbos with fingerboard lengths close to 100cm, but a great deal less in common by virtue of our respective abilities on said theorbos) and the subject of the d minor theorbo came up. Stephen claims that there is a wide spread misconception about the tuning. He says that it is not a baroque lute without the first course, but rather a d-minor lute with the first string down the octave (reentrant). The first six courses would therefore be: f - d' - a - f - d - A I don't know about Stephen's historical evidence is for this, but I admit that it does conform to Baron's statement that the German lutenists did this so that they could use the exact same chord shapes they knew from their regular lutes. At the very least, it would no doubt make life a little easier for the modern lutenist who already does continuo on a d-minor lute. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Sun, 7/4/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] d-minor theorbo specs To: lutelist Net l...@cs.dartmouth.edu, Baroque Lute List (E-mail) baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 3:51 AM The definition of a lute player is an instrumentalist who's always one instrument short. For me, the current missing instrument is a d-minor theorbo. What should be the specs? I know there a few of you playing such beasts (Benjamin?). I'm looking for enough chromatics in the bass to play Bach continuo without too many compromises, St John Passion obligato part as written. Large enough for gut basses on the fretboard, small enough for highest course d'. First proposition on the fingerboard: d' - a - f - d - A - G - F diapassons: E - Eb - D - C - B - A - G Single or double strings? Model? Historical examples? Anyone with experience? David - where to find the money ... -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: d-minor theorbo specs
A subject close to my heart! Precisely as Burris explains - and as my own readings of Baron, Mattheson, and Weiss would confirm - the d-minor theorbo did not have a re-entrant top f'. I am not aware of any source that backs this up, although of course absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. At any rate, I have tried Stephen Stubb's suggestion (he made it to me years ago) and it does work very nicely (more of an Italian theorbo effect, predictably), but of course it does rather change the logic of the fingerboard: after all, the d-minor tuning is so logical and Cartesian, so turning the tuning into a re-entrant one doesn't in my mind stand to reason on stylistic grounds - and of course one cannot simply play as though it were a baroque lute with the f up an octave at any rate. Other advantages of losing the high f string: - strumming is so much easier without the top f since it is not necessary to make the big stretches to double the thirds on this course - c minor, for example, is an ouch with this tuning. And all this annoying amount of physical effort is, remember, just to double the same third you are already playing on the other (unison) f string below... - on proper-sized theorboes (85cm and up) it is vastly more ergonomic to only have to stretch across 5 courses and not 6no mean thing. Finally, this tuning (d' - a - f - d - A) is a legitimate baroque guitar tuning employed by both Granata (1659) and by Botazzari (1663), so you don't necessarily need to change everything around if you have to double on baroque guitar for continuo gigs(although, for the record, regular b-guitar tuning is more HIP; still, the d-minor guitar tuning is, to my mind, a viable historical option.) My thoughts! Benjamin On 4 July 2010 14:34, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote: Tim Burris wrote a nice dissertation on the subject, with a CD on a Dm theorbo as part of it. I'm sure he'd have a betterly informed opinion apropos. RT - Original Message - From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com To: lutelist Net l...@cs.dartmouth.edu; Baroque Lute List (E-mail) baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 7:35 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: d-minor theorbo specs David, I had a conversation with Stephen Stubbs the other night (us having a great deal in common by virtue of our both having owned theorbos with fingerboard lengths close to 100cm, but a great deal less in common by virtue of our respective abilities on said theorbos) and the subject of the d minor theorbo came up. Stephen claims that there is a wide spread misconception about the tuning. He says that it is not a baroque lute without the first course, but rather a d-minor lute with the first string down the octave (reentrant). The first six courses would therefore be: f - d' - a - f - d - A I don't know about Stephen's historical evidence is for this, but I admit that it does conform to Baron's statement that the German lutenists did this so that they could use the exact same chord shapes they knew from their regular lutes. At the very least, it would no doubt make life a little easier for the modern lutenist who already does continuo on a d-minor lute. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Sun, 7/4/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] d-minor theorbo specs To: lutelist Net l...@cs.dartmouth.edu, Baroque Lute List (E-mail) baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 3:51 AM The definition of a lute player is an instrumentalist who's always one instrument short. For me, the current missing instrument is a d-minor theorbo. What should be the specs? I know there a few of you playing such beasts (Benjamin?). I'm looking for enough chromatics in the bass to play Bach continuo without too many compromises, St John Passion obligato part as written. Large enough for gut basses on the fretboard, small enough for highest course d'. First proposition on the fingerboard: d' - a - f - d - A - G - F diapassons: E - Eb - D - C - B - A - G Single or double strings? Model? Historical examples? Anyone with experience? David - where to find the money ... -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr Benjamin A. Narvey Institute of Musical Research School of Advanced Study University of London t +33 (0) 1 44 27 03 44 p/m +33 (0) 6 71 79 98 98 Site web/Website: www.luthiste.com
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Lute/Theorbo Rentals
Dear Members of the List: The viola da gamba society has a rental program, where for between $300 and $400, members of the society may rent a gamba for a 12 month period. I have a colleague in Texas whose department is putting on a Monteverdi opera in the fall. They would like to use theorbo, and they do have a lutenist at the University, but no instrument. Is there any similar service to the VDGS's that will rent instruments? Best, Jorge Jorge Torres Associate Professor of Music 237 Williams Center Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 (610)330-5365 torr...@lafayette.edu : To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach on Theorbo
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Miles Dempster miles.demps...@globetrotter.net wrote: Does anyone know of a good edition of the Bach Cello Suites for theorbo? They've been recorded a number of times. Ideally, I'd make BWV 1007, 1008 and 1009 transcribed by Juan Carlos Rivera (also on CD by him) Published by: Conservatorio Superior de Müsica 'Manuel Castillo' de Sevilla Sevilla, 1999 I think I've paid something like 20 euros for it. French tab single staff notation 7 fretted strings The suites are transposed. Not easy, but a great joy to study. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach on Theorbo
These transcriptions are not for theorbo per se, but should be of use. http://www.clivetitmuss.com/lutebooks.asp Robert. On Mar 18, 2010, at 6:59 AM, Graham Freeman wrote: Wise Luters, Does anyone know of a good edition of the Bach Cello Suites for theorbo? They've been recorded a number of times. Ideally, I'd make my own, but I'd like to see a good transcription of them first. With thanks, Graham Freeman -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Bach on Theorbo
Wise Luters, Does anyone know of a good edition of the Bach Cello Suites for theorbo? They've been recorded a number of times. Ideally, I'd make my own, but I'd like to see a good transcription of them first. With thanks, Graham Freeman -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach on Theorbo
There is the edition by Stefan Lundgren (you can order on his website) http://www.luteonline.se/lundgren-edition/bach_cello.htm Val. - Original Message - From: Graham Freeman freeman.gra...@gmail.com To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: [LUTE] Bach on Theorbo Wise Luters, Does anyone know of a good edition of the Bach Cello Suites for theorbo? They've been recorded a number of times. Ideally, I'd make my own, but I'd like to see a good transcription of them first. With thanks, Graham Freeman -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach on Theorbo
I seem to remember that Rainer Luckhardt made an intabulation. You an ask him via his homepage http://www.seicentomusic.de/ Mathias Sauvage Valéry sauvag...@orange.fr schrieb: There is the edition by Stefan Lundgren (you can order on his website) http://www.luteonline.se/lundgren-edition/bach_cello.htm Val. - Original Message - From: Graham Freeman freeman.gra...@gmail.com To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: [LUTE] Bach on Theorbo Wise Luters, Does anyone know of a good edition of the Bach Cello Suites for theorbo? They've been recorded a number of times. Ideally, I'd make my own, but I'd like to see a good transcription of them first. With thanks, Graham Freeman -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach on Theorbo
There is a version of several suites from Score Conversions arranged by Rob MacKillop. [1]http://www.scoreconversions.com/ Here is the link to the site. Miles Dempster On 2010-03-18, at 7:59 AM, Graham Freeman wrote: Wise Luters, Does anyone know of a good edition of the Bach Cello Suites for theorbo? They've been recorded a number of times. Ideally, I'd make my own, but I'd like to see a good transcription of them first. With thanks, Graham Freeman -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. [2]mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.scoreconversions.com/ 2. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heavy Theorbo
I do that too, using a short strap connected to the button on the body by the bridge. And a footstool. It's an absolute liberation: no more weight on the shoulders. P On 11 March 2010 08:49, David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 1:43 AM, Graham Freeman [2]freeman.gra...@gmail.com wrote: All, I wonder if anyone can offer some helpful suggestions. I have a very Drastic solution a friend of mine opted for: 1. remove the veneer/top layer/panles on back and/or front of the extension 2. drill holes 3. put panels back But try the strap first. I sit on a strap, no shoulder straps. David -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heavy Theorbo
All, Thank you very much for all of your assistance. I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone with my hefty instrument. As always, I'm grateful for the assistance of the community. Best, Graham Freeman On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 3:33 AM, Peter Martin [1]peter.l...@gmail.com wrote: I do that too, using a short strap connected to the button on the body by the bridge. And a footstool. It's an absolute liberation: no more weight on the shoulders. P On 11 March 2010 08:49, David van Ooijen [1][2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 1:43 AM, Graham Freeman [2][3]freeman.gra...@gmail.com wrote: All, I wonder if anyone can offer some helpful suggestions. I have a very Drastic solution a friend of mine opted for: 1. remove the veneer/top layer/panles on back and/or front of the extension 2. drill holes 3. put panels back But try the strap first. I sit on a strap, no shoulder straps. David -- References 1. mailto:[4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. mailto:[5]freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [7]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com 2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 3. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com 4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 5. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com
[LUTE] Heavy Theorbo
All, I wonder if anyone can offer some helpful suggestions. I have a very nice theorbo of medium size with which I'm very happy. The only problem is that the neck extension is quite heavy, so much so that it interferes with the balance of the instrument. This isn't a big problem except that it can make it difficult to hold on to. Is this a common problem? Do different theorbos have different levels of balance? Are there any solutions, aside from the obvious one of selling it, which I am loathe to do? It has such a great sound and is such a nice instrument, but a bit more balance would be nice. As always, I'm grateful to the community for its advice. Best, Graham -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heavy Theorbo
On Mar 10, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Graham Freeman wrote: I wonder if anyone can offer some helpful suggestions. I have a very nice theorbo of medium size with which I'm very happy. The only problem is that the neck extension is quite heavy, so much so that it interferes with the balance of the instrument. This isn't a big problem except that it can make it difficult to hold on to. Is this a common problem? Do different theorbos have different levels of balance? Yes, obviously. My own theorbo has a heavy extension. This isn't a design defect. I'm told the theory is that a vibrating extension will damp the vibrations in the instrument's body, decreasing its loudness, and a heavy extension vibrates less than a light one. Are there any solutions, aside from the obvious one of selling it, which I am loathe to do? It has such a great sound and is such a nice instrument, but a bit more balance would be nice. The trick to holding it is not to hold it. I have a substantial strap -- probably intended for a solidbody electric instrument -- which has more than one hole for the end-of-body peg. I string a longish leather or pseudo-leather bootlace through the second hole, and sit on the lace. This holds the instrument in place; no hands necessary. You can probably pick up something similar at your local Guitar Center, or improvise one. BTW, Paul O'Dette's theorbo is the same basic model by the same maker, and I've seen him play an entire concert on it without using a strap. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heavy Theorbo
Graham, I had the same problem, so I switched to Andreas von Holst and Klaus Jacobsen theorbos. The instruments balance so perfectly that I can play without a strap if I wish. Unfortunately, many instruments are simply not designed ergonomically, although many of the originals are. Basically, you want a combination of several things: The veneer of the neck should be thinner all round, and thinner on the non bearing side. The neck should have a trapezoidal cross section The pegbox should be very small The core wood should be very light but resistant to bending and changes in temperature and humidity--redwood is excellent for this. Reneckingthe lute is an option, and you will play better with a lighter neck. It isn't that hard to do--but building a light replacement requires a bit of forethought. Mine are also curved slightly backwards like a bow on the extended part. If you are ever in California I hope you will feel free to drop by and try out instruments here. Best of luck, dt At 04:43 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: All, I wonder if anyone can offer some helpful suggestions. I have a very nice theorbo of medium size with which I'm very happy. The only problem is that the neck extension is quite heavy, so much so that it interferes with the balance of the instrument. This isn't a big problem except that it can make it difficult to hold on to. Is this a common problem? Do different theorbos have different levels of balance? Are there any solutions, aside from the obvious one of selling it, which I am loathe to do? It has such a great sound and is such a nice instrument, but a bit more balance would be nice. As always, I'm grateful to the community for its advice. Best, Graham -- Dr. Graham Freeman Ph. D Musicology University of Toronto [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com -- References 1. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heavy Theorbo
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 1:43 AM, Graham Freeman freeman.gra...@gmail.com wrote: All, I wonder if anyone can offer some helpful suggestions. I have a very Drastic solution a friend of mine opted for: 1. remove the veneer/top layer/panles on back and/or front of the extension 2. drill holes 3. put panels back But try the strap first. I sit on a strap, no shoulder straps. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
Which Harwood article are we talking about here? P On 7 March 2010 01:05, Roman Turovsky [1]r.turov...@verizon.net wrote: Thankfully we have Renato Meucci to have sorted out the HArwood mess. RT - Original Message - From: David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net To: [3]lute-cs.dartmouth.edu [4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:03 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo I think the original article by Harwood, et al., is a pretty thorough study, it just draws the wrong conclusion from its own research by conflating theorbo and chitarrone. Conflating the terms is understandable, because many of the terms were used interchangeably. The big mistake they made was in not understanding that using the terms interchangeably is the exact opposite of conflation, and that the result of their system would be that we would wind up with fewer differences, not more; uniform, not diverse. However the research itself is right, I think, bass lute tuned physically up or imagined as up by transposition. The information is in the article, just ignored in the conclusions. dt -- References 1. mailto:r.turov...@verizon.net 2. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net 3. http://lute-cs.dartmouth.edu/ 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] S the theorbo
For your perusal and delectation: a Passacaglia in e-minor for theorbo - http://torban.org/swv/passau992tiorba.pdf Enjoy, RT http://www.polyhymnion.org/swv/ostinato/992/pass992sau.mp3 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
I have a Caccini instrument which was made for me made for me which is exactly as Chris describes, a large bodied bass lute. I opted for seven courses, although eight or nine seemed like a good idea. I then played around with the tuning for a while, winding up with G single reentrant because most of the songs-- incl. Amarilli--I wanted to play were in G. I also sometimes play it with the fourth course a half step lower so it can be played in meantone with no extra frets. I use this instrument for a lot of the repertory from 1580-1620. One can make the case that this is the Chittarone, but whether one uses ths term or not it seems like a basic, practical solution. The instrument is definetely louder than a theorbo, for reasons that are somewhat puzzling, but loud it is. I expected to corner the early 17th century market, but of course 99 percent of the clients have no idea what it is, and then, when it is explained to them, want the theorbo anyway. So much for HIP. And so it goes. dt At 10:25 AM 3/5/2010, you wrote: Whenever I decide to play Caccini on 7-course lute or on my (essentially French kind-of) theorbo, I ponder the matter of Caccini's theorbo and things like the fingered g#. First, I really wish I could justify the expense of a bass lute with theorbo tuning. It would make me whole, in a way. The Bottegari lute book (1570s) contains at least one tune by Caccini, and considering the sense of portentousness that Nuove Musiche (1600something) exudes, I'm inclined to think that versions of the other tunes contained in it had also been kicking around Caccini's desk for a while, since a time, maybe, when his songs would have been accompanied on lute. Even if he says the music is 'Nuove.' And since it seems like leaping around octaves in the theorbo bass line is just a fact of life and can be perfectly euphonious (on A theorbo I always start 'Amarilli' on the 7th course and finger the following f# on the 4th course; no complaints yet) I reckon that whatever instrument he originally intended the songs to be accompanied by, the bass lines would be written in a way that was sensible enough for keyboardists to play them as written (maybe also taking pains to ensure that nothing figured '11' would be played as a mere '4') but that lutenists and theorbo players were no more octave-bound in 1600 than they were when Delair authorized playing inconvenient or difficult notes at 16' in 1690. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 08:49:07 -0800 To: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; davidvanooi...@gmail.com From: chriswi...@yahoo.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo David, My guess is that is not what we would call a theorbo at all, but rather a bass lute probably tuned theorbo-like. All the strings would therefore be on one neck and those chromatic basses could be fingered. Whether the tuning was in A, G or something else and whether one or both of the upper courses were down the octave is anyone's guess. This is almost certainly the same type of instrument Kapsperger used for his first chitarrone book. I seem to remember that HK doesn't use more than 11 courses in this book and he also requires an apparently fingered G# bass note as well as the open G-natural in Toccata VI. Chris --- On Fri, 3/5/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Caccini's theorbo To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 9:19 AM Do we know anything about the instrument(s) Caccini played? His bass lines sometimes need G as well as G#, (and I believe F as well as F#) in one piece, which is impossible on a 'standard' (...) theorbo in a with 6 strings/courses on the fingerboard. If Caccini were just another composer, and I'd transpose the bass at will, but knowing he was a theorbo player, I'm a wondering about his setup: how many strings on the fingerboard and what nominal pitch? There are many practical solutions, but did somebody make a study into Caccini's lute, perhaps? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
Also, for those who wish to use a theorbo or archlute, when you have your instrument made, always ask the maker to build it so that it can be 6+8, 7+7 or 8+6. This is very easy to do, and allows you to fret the F sharp in any number of ways. I have the archlute in that configuration, and the theorbos are 7+8, 8+7 which gives a low low F, which is also handy for continuo, though not essential. Another possibility is of course that the music was read a tone higher at a lower pitch, or whatever nominal pitch was used, however, as a practical matter for the music written around 1600, the F sharp is an essential note, and the low D is very handy, but not necessary if you have the long strings. Since they presumably did not have the long strings at that time, the alternate stringing solution for the theorbo covers this lacuna for those who do not want to invest in a bass lute. dt At 11:59 AM 3/6/2010, you wrote: I have a Caccini instrument which was made for me made for me which is exactly as Chris describes, a large bodied bass lute. I opted for seven courses, although eight or nine seemed like a good idea. I then played around with the tuning for a while, winding up with G single reentrant because most of the songs-- incl. Amarilli--I wanted to play were in G. I also sometimes play it with the fourth course a half step lower so it can be played in meantone with no extra frets. I use this instrument for a lot of the repertory from 1580-1620. One can make the case that this is the Chittarone, but whether one uses ths term or not it seems like a basic, practical solution. The instrument is definetely louder than a theorbo, for reasons that are somewhat puzzling, but loud it is. I expected to corner the early 17th century market, but of course 99 percent of the clients have no idea what it is, and then, when it is explained to them, want the theorbo anyway. So much for HIP. And so it goes. dt At 10:25 AM 3/5/2010, you wrote: Whenever I decide to play Caccini on 7-course lute or on my (essentially French kind-of) theorbo, I ponder the matter of Caccini's theorbo and things like the fingered g#. First, I really wish I could justify the expense of a bass lute with theorbo tuning. It would make me whole, in a way. The Bottegari lute book (1570s) contains at least one tune by Caccini, and considering the sense of portentousness that Nuove Musiche (1600something) exudes, I'm inclined to think that versions of the other tunes contained in it had also been kicking around Caccini's desk for a while, since a time, maybe, when his songs would have been accompanied on lute. Even if he says the music is 'Nuove.' And since it seems like leaping around octaves in the theorbo bass line is just a fact of life and can be perfectly euphonious (on A theorbo I always start 'Amarilli' on the 7th course and finger the following f# on the 4th course; no complaints yet) I reckon that whatever instrument he originally intended the songs to be accompanied by, the bass lines would be written in a way that was sensible enough for keyboardists to play them as written (maybe also taking pains to ensure that nothing figured '11' would be played as a mere '4') but that lutenists and theorbo players were no more octave-bound in 1600 than they were when Delair authorized playing inconvenient or difficult notes at 16' in 1690. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 08:49:07 -0800 To: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; davidvanooi...@gmail.com From: chriswi...@yahoo.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo David, My guess is that is not what we would call a theorbo at all, but rather a bass lute probably tuned theorbo-like. All the strings would therefore be on one neck and those chromatic basses could be fingered. Whether the tuning was in A, G or something else and whether one or both of the upper courses were down the octave is anyone's guess. This is almost certainly the same type of instrument Kapsperger used for his first chitarrone book. I seem to remember that HK doesn't use more than 11 courses in this book and he also requires an apparently fingered G# bass note as well as the open G-natural in Toccata VI. Chris --- On Fri, 3/5/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Caccini's theorbo To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 9:19 AM Do we know anything about the instrument(s) Caccini played? His bass lines sometimes need G as well as G#, (and I believe F as well as F#) in one piece, which is impossible on a 'standard' (...) theorbo in a with 6 strings/courses on the fingerboard. If Caccini were just another composer
[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 8:59 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I have a Caccini instrument which was made for me made for me which is exactly as Chris describes, a large bodied bass lute. I opted for seven courses, although eight or nine seemed like a good idea. Same story here. I have a 78cm 10-course bass lute. I have it tuned in D, very convenient for continuo, but mostly used for English lute song. And, indeed, very loud. Pain in the shoulders, too. ;-) But it seems nobody did a thorough study on Caccini's instrument. Much interesting andp lausible speculation, though, for which I thank all contributors. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
I think the original article by Harwood, et al., is a pretty thorough study, it just draws the wrong conclusion from its own research by conflating theorbo and chitarrone. Conflating the terms is understandable, because many of the terms were used interchangeably. The big mistake they made was in not understanding that using the terms interchangeably is the exact opposite of conflation, and that the result of their system would be that we would wind up with fewer differences, not more; uniform, not diverse. However the research itself is right, I think, bass lute tuned physically up or imagined as up by transposition. The information is in the article, just ignored in the conclusions. dt At 01:37 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 8:59 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I have a Caccini instrument which was made for me made for me which is exactly as Chris describes, a large bodied bass lute. I opted for seven courses, although eight or nine seemed like a good idea. Same story here. I have a 78cm 10-course bass lute. I have it tuned in D, very convenient for continuo, but mostly used for English lute song. And, indeed, very loud. Pain in the shoulders, too. ;-) But it seems nobody did a thorough study on Caccini's instrument. Much interesting andp lausible speculation, though, for which I thank all contributors. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
Thankfully we have Renato Meucci to have sorted out the HArwood mess. RT - Original Message - From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:03 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo I think the original article by Harwood, et al., is a pretty thorough study, it just draws the wrong conclusion from its own research by conflating theorbo and chitarrone. Conflating the terms is understandable, because many of the terms were used interchangeably. The big mistake they made was in not understanding that using the terms interchangeably is the exact opposite of conflation, and that the result of their system would be that we would wind up with fewer differences, not more; uniform, not diverse. However the research itself is right, I think, bass lute tuned physically up or imagined as up by transposition. The information is in the article, just ignored in the conclusions. dt At 01:37 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 8:59 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I have a Caccini instrument which was made for me made for me which is exactly as Chris describes, a large bodied bass lute. I opted for seven courses, although eight or nine seemed like a good idea. Same story here. I have a 78cm 10-course bass lute. I have it tuned in D, very convenient for continuo, but mostly used for English lute song. And, indeed, very loud. Pain in the shoulders, too. ;-) But it seems nobody did a thorough study on Caccini's instrument. Much interesting andp lausible speculation, though, for which I thank all contributors. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Caccini's theorbo
Do we know anything about the instrument(s) Caccini played? His bass lines sometimes need G as well as G#, (and I believe F as well as F#) in one piece, which is impossible on a 'standard' (...) theorbo in a with 6 strings/courses on the fingerboard. If Caccini were just another composer, and I'd transpose the bass at will, but knowing he was a theorbo player, I'm a wondering about his setup: how many strings on the fingerboard and what nominal pitch? There are many practical solutions, but did somebody make a study into Caccini's lute, perhaps? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
David, My guess is that is not what we would call a theorbo at all, but rather a bass lute probably tuned theorbo-like. All the strings would therefore be on one neck and those chromatic basses could be fingered. Whether the tuning was in A, G or something else and whether one or both of the upper courses were down the octave is anyone's guess. This is almost certainly the same type of instrument Kapsperger used for his first chitarrone book. I seem to remember that HK doesn't use more than 11 courses in this book and he also requires an apparently fingered G# bass note as well as the open G-natural in Toccata VI. Chris --- On Fri, 3/5/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Caccini's theorbo To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 9:19 AM Do we know anything about the instrument(s) Caccini played? His bass lines sometimes need G as well as G#, (and I believe F as well as F#) in one piece, which is impossible on a 'standard' (...) theorbo in a with 6 strings/courses on the fingerboard. If Caccini were just another composer, and I'd transpose the bass at will, but knowing he was a theorbo player, I'm a wondering about his setup: how many strings on the fingerboard and what nominal pitch? There are many practical solutions, but did somebody make a study into Caccini's lute, perhaps? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
Whenever I decide to play Caccini on 7-course lute or on my (essentially French kind-of) theorbo, I ponder the matter of Caccini's theorbo and things like the fingered g#. First, I really wish I could justify the expense of a bass lute with theorbo tuning. It would make me whole, in a way. The Bottegari lute book (1570s) contains at least one tune by Caccini, and considering the sense of portentousness that Nuove Musiche (1600something) exudes, I'm inclined to think that versions of the other tunes contained in it had also been kicking around Caccini's desk for a while, since a time, maybe, when his songs would have been accompanied on lute. Even if he says the music is 'Nuove.' And since it seems like leaping around octaves in the theorbo bass line is just a fact of life and can be perfectly euphonious (on A theorbo I always start 'Amarilli' on the 7th course and finger the following f# on the 4th course; no complaints yet) I reckon that whatever instrument he originally intended the songs to be accompanied by, the bass lines would be written in a way that was sensible enough for keyboardists to play them as written (maybe also taking pains to ensure that nothing figured '11' would be played as a mere '4') but that lutenists and theorbo players were no more octave-bound in 1600 than they were when Delair authorized playing inconvenient or difficult notes at 16' in 1690. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 08:49:07 -0800 To: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; davidvanooi...@gmail.com From: chriswi...@yahoo.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo David, My guess is that is not what we would call a theorbo at all, but rather a bass lute probably tuned theorbo-like. All the strings would therefore be on one neck and those chromatic basses could be fingered. Whether the tuning was in A, G or something else and whether one or both of the upper courses were down the octave is anyone's guess. This is almost certainly the same type of instrument Kapsperger used for his first chitarrone book. I seem to remember that HK doesn't use more than 11 courses in this book and he also requires an apparently fingered G# bass note as well as the open G-natural in Toccata VI. Chris --- On Fri, 3/5/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Caccini's theorbo To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 9:19 AM Do we know anything about the instrument(s) Caccini played? His bass lines sometimes need G as well as G#, (and I believe F as well as F#) in one piece, which is impossible on a 'standard' (...) theorbo in a with 6 strings/courses on the fingerboard. If Caccini were just another composer, and I'd transpose the bass at will, but knowing he was a theorbo player, I'm a wondering about his setup: how many strings on the fingerboard and what nominal pitch? There are many practical solutions, but did somebody make a study into Caccini's lute, perhaps? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
As no low F is written in my version, I tune the F to F# for Amarilli. Victor Coelho has an article in the Journal of Seventeenth Century Music (vol 9 2003) about the Camerata, Caccini and the nuove musiche and how it wasn't so new when finally published. r -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of John Lenti Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 1:26 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo Whenever I decide to play Caccini on 7-course lute or on my (essentially French kind-of) theorbo, I ponder the matter of Caccini's theorbo and things like the fingered g#. First, I really wish I could justify the expense of a bass lute with theorbo tuning. It would make me whole, in a way. The Bottegari lute book (1570s) contains at least one tune by Caccini, and considering the sense of portentousness that Nuove Musiche (1600something) exudes, I'm inclined to think that versions of the other tunes contained in it had also been kicking around Caccini's desk for a while, since a time, maybe, when his songs would have been accompanied on lute. Even if he says the music is 'Nuove.' And since it seems like leaping around octaves in the theorbo bass line is just a fact of life and can be perfectly euphonious (on A theorbo I always start 'Amarilli' on the 7th course and finger the following f# on the 4th course; no complaints yet) I reckon that whatever instrument he originally intended the songs to be accompanied by, the bass lines would be written in a way that was sensible enough for keyboardists to play them as written (maybe also taking pains to ensure that nothing figured '11' would be played as a mere '4') but that lutenists and theorbo players were no more octave-bound in 1600 than they were when Delair authorized playing inconvenient or difficult notes at 16' in 1690. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 08:49:07 -0800 To: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; davidvanooi...@gmail.com From: chriswi...@yahoo.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo David, My guess is that is not what we would call a theorbo at all, but rather a bass lute probably tuned theorbo-like. All the strings would therefore be on one neck and those chromatic basses could be fingered. Whether the tuning was in A, G or something else and whether one or both of the upper courses were down the octave is anyone's guess. This is almost certainly the same type of instrument Kapsperger used for his first chitarrone book. I seem to remember that HK doesn't use more than 11 courses in this book and he also requires an apparently fingered G# bass note as well as the open G-natural in Toccata VI. Chris --- On Fri, 3/5/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Caccini's theorbo To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 9:19 AM Do we know anything about the instrument(s) Caccini played? His bass lines sometimes need G as well as G#, (and I believe F as well as F#) in one piece, which is impossible on a 'standard' (...) theorbo in a with 6 strings/courses on the fingerboard. If Caccini were just another composer, and I'd transpose the bass at will, but knowing he was a theorbo player, I'm a wondering about his setup: how many strings on the fingerboard and what nominal pitch? There are many practical solutions, but did somebody make a study into Caccini's lute, perhaps? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo arpeggiation
Dear Martin, I commonly use the Kapsberger appregiation in continuo playing (as well as in these solos); it is also a useful way of articulating particular notes. Almost always I would play the first pattern she gives in your bar 6 example ie p i m i even where the 'melodic line' crosses. Indeed the quickly passing dissonance is a valuable effect. Just to extend this slightly further, I also sometimes use the later 'baroque lute' backward (upward) rake with the first finger (followed quickly by second) tho' this practice seems strangely little used even on the lute these days (despite being well documented in early sources)... Does she mention this technique? rgds Martyn --- On Sun, 28/2/10, Martin Eastwell eastwe...@mac.com wrote: From: Martin Eastwell eastwe...@mac.com Subject: [LUTE] Theorbo arpeggiation To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 28 February, 2010, 21:38 Hi! Looking through Francesca Torelli's excellent theorbo tutor (published by Ut Orpheus Edizioni), I was a little surprised by two of her recommendations for right hand arpeggiation. She explains (p 23)the technique in which 4 note arpeggios, for example, are played p i m i, with the index finger playing the highest note of the chord last, on the third course. So the first bar of Kapsberger's Toccata Seconda Arpeggiata becomes... --- |- --- |- ---0--- |-0 repeated 4 times ---3--- |--3--- ---3--- |3- ---2--- |---2-- ./. p i m i However, she suggests that once you have played the second note, you should rest the index finger on the third course ready to play the final note of the 4 note pattern. I don't play this way myself (though I can make it work) and wonder if other people do. Also, if there is any mention of this rest stroke technique in the original sources. On p 24, she prints the above mentioned Toccata, with the recommendation that the student should vary the RH fingering patterns so as to ensure that all the notes in each chord are played in ascending order. The trouble with this recommendation is that very often in the piece, the notes on the first and third courses have a melodic function as well as an harmonic one. The pattern in bar 6, for example, is notated as follows; ---2 which could be realised either as---2 or as ---00--- ---3--3- ---3-3-- ./. p i m i -- -2 -- if you follow Torelli's suggestion ---0-- 3- --3-- p m i m Or perhaps-p i i m ? The result is that the melodic move Bb-A is reversed. She admits that This technique may seem complex and difficult in the beginning... ! To my ear, it also alters the piece significantly, in this bar and a number of other places. What do people think? I wonder if anyone can think of passages like this in the Italian theorbo repertory where the arpeggiation is written out in full, thus giving us a hint? Best wishes martin To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo arpeggiation
Hi! Looking through Francesca Torelli's excellent theorbo tutor (published by Ut Orpheus Edizioni), I was a little surprised by two of her recommendations for right hand arpeggiation. She explains (p 23)the technique in which 4 note arpeggios, for example, are played p i m i, with the index finger playing the highest note of the chord last, on the third course. So the first bar of Kapsberger's Toccata Seconda Arpeggiata becomes... --- |- --- |- ---0--- |-0 repeated 4 times ---3--- |--3--- ---3--- |3- ---2--- |---2-- ./. p i m i However, she suggests that once you have played the second note, you should rest the index finger on the third course ready to play the final note of the 4 note pattern. I don't play this way myself (though I can make it work) and wonder if other people do. Also, if there is any mention of this rest stroke technique in the original sources. On p 24, she prints the above mentioned Toccata, with the recommendation that the student should vary the RH fingering patterns so as to ensure that all the notes in each chord are played in ascending order. The trouble with this recommendation is that very often in the piece, the notes on the first and third courses have a melodic function as well as an harmonic one. The pattern in bar 6, for example, is notated as follows; ---2 which could be realised either as---2 or as ---00--- ---3--3- ---3-3-- ./. p i m i -- -2 -- if you follow Torelli's suggestion ---0-- 3- --3-- p m i m Or perhaps-p i i m ? The result is that the melodic move Bb-A is reversed. She admits that This technique may seem complex and difficult in the beginning... ! To my ear, it also alters the piece significantly, in this bar and a number of other places. What do people think? I wonder if anyone can think of passages like this in the Italian theorbo repertory where the arpeggiation is written out in full, thus giving us a hint? Best wishes martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo arpeggiation
The suggestion of arpeggiating the toccata seconda in two different ways is lifted straight from Nigel North's book (1987). I have tried playing it the second way (take care always to arpeggiate in order from bass to treble) but found it too confusing since the pattern changes several times during the piece. So I always play it the first way. As for the rest stroke, like you I can see that it's possible, but I've never wanted to do it. Too many digits anchored at the same time All best Peter On 28 February 2010 22:38, Martin Eastwell [1]eastwe...@mac.com wrote: Hi! Looking through Francesca Torelli's excellent theorbo tutor (published by Ut Orpheus Edizioni), I was a little surprised by two of her recommendations for right hand arpeggiation. She explains (p 23)the technique in which 4 note arpeggios, for example, are played p i m i, with the index finger playing the highest note of the chord last, on the third course. So the first bar of Kapsberger's Toccata Seconda Arpeggiata becomes... --- |- --- |- ---0--- |-0 repeated 4 times ---3--- |--3--- ---3--- |3- ---2--- |---2-- ./. p i m i However, she suggests that once you have played the second note, you should rest the index finger on the third course ready to play the final note of the 4 note pattern. I don't play this way myself (though I can make it work) and wonder if other people do. Also, if there is any mention of this rest stroke technique in the original sources. On p 24, she prints the above mentioned Toccata, with the recommendation that the student should vary the RH fingering patterns so as to ensure that all the notes in each chord are played in ascending order. The trouble with this recommendation is that very often in the piece, the notes on the first and third courses have a melodic function as well as an harmonic one. The pattern in bar 6, for example, is notated as follows; ---2 which could be realised either as---2 or as ---00--- ---3--3- ---3-3-- ./. p i m i -- -2 -- if you follow Torelli's suggestion ---0-- 3- --3-- p m i m Or perhaps-p i i m ? The result is that the melodic move Bb-A is reversed. She admits that This technique may seem complex and difficult in the beginning... ! To my ear, it also alters the piece significantly, in this bar and a number of other places. What do people think? I wonder if anyone can think of passages like this in the Italian theorbo repertory where the arpeggiation is written out in full, thus giving us a hint? Best wishes martin -- References 1. mailto:eastwe...@mac.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo arpeggiation
Sorry-just noticed an error in my post (near the end)! The result is that the melodic move Bb-A is reversed. For Bb-A, please read C-B! Unless, of course, you play a theorbo in G! Martin On 28/2/10 21:38, Martin Eastwell eastwe...@mac.com wrote: Hi! Looking through Francesca Torelli's excellent theorbo tutor (published by Ut Orpheus Edizioni), I was a little surprised by two of her recommendations for right hand arpeggiation. She explains (p 23)the technique in which 4 note arpeggios, for example, are played p i m i, with the index finger playing the highest note of the chord last, on the third course. So the first bar of Kapsberger's Toccata Seconda Arpeggiata becomes... --- |- --- |- ---0--- |-0 repeated 4 times ---3--- |--3--- ---3--- |3- ---2--- |---2-- ./. p i m i However, she suggests that once you have played the second note, you should rest the index finger on the third course ready to play the final note of the 4 note pattern. I don't play this way myself (though I can make it work) and wonder if other people do. Also, if there is any mention of this rest stroke technique in the original sources. On p 24, she prints the above mentioned Toccata, with the recommendation that the student should vary the RH fingering patterns so as to ensure that all the notes in each chord are played in ascending order. The trouble with this recommendation is that very often in the piece, the notes on the first and third courses have a melodic function as well as an harmonic one. The pattern in bar 6, for example, is notated as follows; ---2 which could be realised either as---2 or as ---00--- ---3--3- ---3-3-- ./. p i m i -- -2 -- if you follow Torelli's suggestion ---0-- 3- --3-- p m i m Or perhaps-p i i m ? The result is that the melodic move Bb-A is reversed. She admits that This technique may seem complex and difficult in the beginning... ! To my ear, it also alters the piece significantly, in this bar and a number of other places. What do people think? I wonder if anyone can think of passages like this in the Italian theorbo repertory where the arpeggiation is written out in full, thus giving us a hint? Best wishes martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo arpeggiation
Hello Martin, I can't address the theorbic implications, but I am very interested to see that first bit, where i does a single, selected rest stroke in order to play the course it comes to rest on following the m stroke is exactly what I've been doing on the d-minor Baroque lute in many places. Not from any instruction, it just felt logical, conserving of motion, and yet another way to get control of the fingers. And stay in touch of location, or continue in a bassward direction when that is what is happening. I believe crossing the i over the m, instead of using a was already commonplace in 17th century French lute playing; specialists can confirm or correct me on this one. Perhaps getting a little OT from your specific theorbo concerns, I think many of us who came to lutes in general from modern guitar have a tendency to overuse the a finger, often to the detriment of style, and sometimes technique as well. Because of an old tendonitis injury I spent several months playing with no use of the a finger at all- even complex Weiss sonatas; it was a revelation how much could be accomplished this way- technically and musically. By the way, this counterintuitive, unnatural (at first) finger crossing is generally more manageable from the thumb out (or up/center, whatever) hand orientation. Dan Hi! Looking through Francesca Torelli's excellent theorbo tutor (published by Ut Orpheus Edizioni), I was a little surprised by two of her recommendations for right hand arpeggiation. She explains (p 23)the technique in which 4 note arpeggios, for example, are played p i m i, with the index finger playing the highest note of the chord last, on the third course. So the first bar of Kapsberger's Toccata Seconda Arpeggiata becomes... --- |- --- |- ---0--- |-0 repeated 4 times ---3--- |--3--- ---3--- |3- ---2--- |---2-- ./. p i m i However, she suggests that once you have played the second note, you should rest the index finger on the third course ready to play the final note of the 4 note pattern. I don't play this way myself (though I can make it work) and wonder if other people do. Also, if there is any mention of this rest stroke technique in the original sources. On p 24, she prints the above mentioned Toccata, with the recommendation that the student should vary the RH fingering patterns so as to ensure that all the notes in each chord are played in ascending order. The trouble with this recommendation is that very often in the piece, the notes on the first and third courses have a melodic function as well as an harmonic one. The pattern in bar 6, for example, is notated as follows; ---2 which could be realised either as---2 or as ---00--- ---3--3- ---3-3-- ./. p i m i -- -2 -- if you follow Torelli's suggestion ---0-- 3- --3-- p m i m Or perhaps-p i i m ? The result is that the melodic move Bb-A is reversed. She admits that This technique may seem complex and difficult in the beginning... ! To my ear, it also alters the piece significantly, in this bar and a number of other places. What do people think? I wonder if anyone can think of passages like this in the Italian theorbo repertory where the arpeggiation is written out in full, thus giving us a hint? Best wishes martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Rachel Winheld 820 Colusa Avenue Berkeley, CA 94707 rwinh...@comcast.net Tel 510.526.0242 Cell 510.915.4276
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo arpeggiation
Martin, Very interesting! I had no idea that Torelli advocated the rest stroke technique, but I've been experimenting with it myself the past couple of months. My main reason for doing so is to try to get the arpeggio so fast as to seem like a strum. Clearly this is what Kapsperger intended in many places. He often uses the arpeggio sign over incredibly quick chords. In Aira di Firenza he even uses it over a 16th note chord in a piece that has a half-note pulse! Often, arpeggio signs are in places where I'd like to hear staccato chords. (Piccinini says to play these types of chords in one stroke, as on the lute, but HK allows for no shortcuts.) Chris --- On Sun, 2/28/10, Martin Eastwell eastwe...@mac.com wrote: From: Martin Eastwell eastwe...@mac.com Subject: [LUTE] Theorbo arpeggiation To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 4:38 PM Hi! Looking through Francesca Torelli's excellent theorbo tutor (published by Ut Orpheus Edizioni), I was a little surprised by two of her recommendations for right hand arpeggiation. She explains (p 23)the technique in which 4 note arpeggios, for example, are played p i m i, with the index finger playing the highest note of the chord last, on the third course. So the first bar of Kapsberger's Toccata Seconda Arpeggiata becomes.. --- |- --- |- ---0--- |-0 repeated 4 times ---3--- |--3--- ---3--- |3- ---2--- |---2-- ./. p i m i However, she suggests that once you have played the second note, you should rest the index finger on the third course ready to play the final note of the 4 note pattern. I don't play this way myself (though I can make it work) and wonder if other people do. Also, if there is any mention of this rest stroke technique in the original sources. On p 24, she prints the above mentioned Toccata, with the recommendation that the student should vary the RH fingering patterns so as to ensure that all the notes in each chord are played in ascending order. The trouble with this recommendation is that very often in the piece, the notes on the first and third courses have a melodic function as well as an harmonic one. The pattern in bar 6, for example, is notated as follows; ---2 which could be realised either as ---2 or as ---0 0--- ---3 --3- ---3 -3-- ./. p i m i -- -2 -- if you follow Torelli's suggestion ---0-- 3- --3-- p m i m Or perhaps-p i i m ? The result is that the melodic move Bb-A is reversed. She admits that This technique may seem complex and difficult in the beginning... ! To my ear, it also alters the piece significantly, in this bar and a number of other places. What do people think? I wonder if anyone can think of passages like this in the Italian theorbo repertory where the arpeggiation is written out in full, thus giving us a hint? Best wishes martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] My new theorbo
Let me introduce my new theorbo made by Didier Jarny. I got it on last sunday, and I'm really happy with it ;-) Here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-X_chDkDos Val To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My new theorbo
2010/1/14 Sauvage Valéry sauvag...@orange.fr: Let me introduce my new theorbo made by Didier Jarny. I got it on last sunday, and I'm really happy with it ;-) Congratulations with your new instrument! And so brave to bring it to YouTube immediately ... David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My new theorbo
Thanks for the introduction - have you named him/her? A lovely sounding instrument, but as Heifetz said to a listener who complimented him on the sound of his instrument; (holding it to his ear) I don't hear anything. Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My new theorbo
Nice instrument! And unbelievable that you can manage with it only in a couple of days! Arto On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:14:36 +0100, Sauvage Valéry sauvag...@orange.fr wrote: Let me introduce my new theorbo made by Didier Jarny. I got it on last sunday, and I'm really happy with it ;-) Here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-X_chDkDos Val To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Holiday Theorbo Time!
Hi all, Its that time again - time for eggnog, fruitcake, extended time with extended family, desperate last minute trips to the mall... and of course, theorbo music! Here are two clips of (just in time) seasonal theorbo offerings: My arrangement of It Came Upon a Midnight Clear con variazione http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDg56TnhdV4 Robert de Visee's setting of the French Noel, Je me suis leve par un martinet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqmY_kYg39A Enjoy! Here's wishing you the happiest of holidays! Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Holiday Theorbo Time!
Very nice, Chris! and congratulations on the solstice(-ish) arrivals. s On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:14 AM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, Its that time again - time for eggnog, fruitcake, extended time with extended family, desperate last minute trips to the mall... and of course, theorbo music! Here are two clips of (just in time) seasonal theorbo offerings: My arrangement of It Came Upon a Midnight Clear con variazione http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDg56TnhdV4 Robert de Visee's setting of the French Noel, Je me suis leve par un martinet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqmY_kYg39A Enjoy! Here's wishing you the happiest of holidays! Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Holiday Theorbo Time!
Thanks and most impressive, Chris. While my ear has yet to be seduced by the sound of the theorbo as it has been by the lute, your arrangements and playing are wonderful. May all your strings resonant with wonderful harmonies in the new year. Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Women the Theorbo
All: After reviewing some lute iconography, it seems that the renaissance lute was played by more men than women (especially inebriated-looking Dutch guys), but it seems that the majority of theorbo players are women. Possible reasons? *Women are just prettier to paint? *My statistical sampling is biased? *Theorbo was considered a 'woman's instrument' and not popular among 'real men'? *Theorbo was popularly used by women to accompany their own singing? *Theorbos, theorbo strings, and lessons were expensive, so it was used as a mark of wealthy status by families? *The theorbo in painting is used as an allegory to purity (the enlightenment's version of a Unicorn)? *Only after mastering the patience needed to keep a gut-strung theorbo in tune, was a woman considered ready to try her patience on keeping a husband? Any ideas? tedjordan columbusohioUSA -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Women the Theorbo
Food for thought ..., or for a comedian’s routine ... (?) Peter Van Dessel Belgium On 05 Oct 2009, at 14:14, theoj89...@aol.com wrote: All: After reviewing some lute iconography, it seems that the renaissance lute was played by more men than women (especially inebriated- looking Dutch guys), but it seems that the majority of theorbo players are women. Possible reasons? *Women are just prettier to paint? *My statistical sampling is biased? *Theorbo was considered a 'woman's instrument' and not popular among 'real men'? *Theorbo was popularly used by women to accompany their own singing? *Theorbos, theorbo strings, and lessons were expensive, so it was used as a mark of wealthy status by families? *The theorbo in painting is used as an allegory to purity (the enlightenment's version of a Unicorn)? *Only after mastering the patience needed to keep a gut-strung theorbo in tune, was a woman considered ready to try her patience on keeping a husband? Any ideas? tedjordan columbusohioUSA -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Women the Theorbo
On Oct 5, 2009, at 6:07 AM, theoj89...@aol.com wrote: Are paintings an accurate representation of its use? Of course not. They represent what an artist thought someone would pay to have. The artists painted for patrons, not future musicologists. Was it primarily a woman's instrument (such as the harp)? Was it widely,and primarily used for self accompaniment of the female voice - if so, what was played? Was it depicted more as an allegorical representation? Despite the atttempts at humor, I am honestly curious- There are all sorts of reasons, I'm sure, but the principal reason is that theorbos are spectacular-looking things. Years ago, a group I was with played what might loosely be called a concert because that we thought we would be professionally videotaped. Two thirds of the video turned out to consist of panning around my theorbo with a near-pornographic intensity, ignoring everything else going on (which included some semi-staged comedy). -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Women the Theorbo
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:14 PM, theoj89...@aol.com wrote: After reviewing some lute iconography, it seems that the renaissance lute was played by more men than women (especially inebriated-looking Dutch guys), but it seems that the majority of theorbo players are women. Possible reasons? Women playing theorbo would accompany their own singing, I would imagine. David - tends to fall over, trying to hold a theorbo when drunk, but can manage holding a lute as an inebriated Dutch guy -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French baroque, Lully and theorbo
Arto wrote: Yes, I do know this is an ad in vain..., no interest in the List -- as usual. Dear Arto, Please do not assume that lack of response equals lack of interest or appreciation. I, for one, greatly admire your work and have enjoyed your videos over and over, and I am quite confident that I am not alone. Although time constraints do figure as a factor, in my case at least, the failure to respond owes more to an embarrassment over vocabulary. I can state a personal reaction such as I liked that, make a comment on performance such as You played that well, or give an opinion on the composition such as That was a beautiful piece. For me the problem with such generic comments lies in the fact that they apply more or less equally well to most postings. When I consider the number of videos posted by Daniel Shoskes or Valéry Sauvage, or the many fine compositions by Roman Turovsky, to name a few of the most prolific contributors on our list, I begin to feel stupid saying the same generic things after the first few times, and so, much to my own dislike, I end up saying nothing, and I suspect that I am not alone in this regard either.So, keep up the good work, and know that the interest, even if unexpressed, is there. Respectfully, Stephen Arndt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French baroque, Lully and theorbo
Dear Stephen (and all), thanks! I understand, and I think you are right. I just had a little bit too much wine, and a temporary Net depression... Now I am a little ashamed... And everything is ok again... :-) All the best, Arto On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:59:23 -0500, Stephen Arndt stephenar...@earthlink.net wrote: Arto wrote: Yes, I do know this is an ad in vain..., no interest in the List -- as usual. Dear Arto, Please do not assume that lack of response equals lack of interest or appreciation. I, for one, greatly admire your work and have enjoyed your videos over and over, and I am quite confident that I am not alone. Although time constraints do figure as a factor, in my case at least, the failure to respond owes more to an embarrassment over vocabulary. I can state a personal reaction such as I liked that, make a comment on performance such as You played that well, or give an opinion on the composition such as That was a beautiful piece. For me the problem with such generic comments lies in the fact that they apply more or less equally well to most postings. When I consider the number of videos posted by Daniel Shoskes or Valéry Sauvage, or the many fine compositions by Roman Turovsky, to name a few of the most prolific contributors on our list, I begin to feel stupid saying the same generic things after the first few times, and so, much to my own dislike, I end up saying nothing, and I suspect that I am not alone in this regard either.So, keep up the good work, and know that the interest, even if unexpressed, is there. Respectfully, Stephen Arndt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French baroque, Lully and theorbo
I wholeheartedly second Stephen's opinion. All the best Thomas To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] French baroque, Lully and theorbo
Dear lutenists, especially the theorbo oriented of us, my tiny research -- which still continues! -- of the theorbo solo arrs made of Lully's songs and pieces, has really convinced me of the quality of the music by Lully, and _also_ the quality of the theorbo players of his time! Strongly recommended! And you'll find quite a lot of that stuff (and also the models by Lully) in my page http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/Tiorba/deVisee/ -- there will be more soon... ;-) Yes, I do know this is an ad in vain..., no interest in the List -- as usual. On the other hand I do know also that one or another of our lute heroes will made a recording of the stuff I've digged from the obscurity... ;) Has happened earlier, too ... ;-)) All the best, Aro To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French baroque, Lully and theorbo
Congratulations on your research, Aro. I am impressed that - given the challenges of the Renaissance lute - there are players that master that and also go on to master (or at least play very well) the Baroque lute and/or the Theorbo, and others of the family. Different tunings, etc. I don't anticipate getting beyond the Renaissance lute, but perhaps shouldn't close my mind to the possibility. Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau for Logy for Theorbo?
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Arto Wiklawi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote: that transcribing it to other medium would not make justice to the piece. Thanks everybody for all the help. I've told my theorbo-only friend to make his own arrangement, or buy a baroque lute. Slightly off-topic, I must say I have very fond memories of the piece from my guitar days; I had what felt to me like a good arrangement. Not so off-topic: Some barqoue music is found in versions for baroque lute and theorbo (notably music by De Visée). Are there period theorbo transcriptions/arrangements of German baroqule lute music? David - curious -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau for Logy for Theorbo?
See at : http://jdf.luth.pagesperso-orange.fr/Musiques/Les_manuscrits/Londres/*Le_manuscrit_de_Londres.htm row #60, column Notation musicale ! Jean-Daniel Forget Le 24/08/09 23:05, wikla a écrit : On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:50:32 -0400, Roman Turovsky lu...@polyhymnion.org wrote: No. - Original Message - From: David van Ooijendavidvanooi...@gmail.com Is there a theorbo version of the Tombeau de Comte de Logy? Perhaps I could try to make one? Is there any modern notation version of the d-minor lute tab? Or at least and of course the d-minor lute tab in the net? If anyone would be interested? I do have some feel and touch to the theorbo tuning's funnynessess... ;-) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Tombeau for Logy for Theorbo?
To the collected wisdom Is there a theorbo version of the Tombeau de Comte de Logy? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau for Logy for Theorbo?
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:50:32 -0400, Roman Turovsky lu...@polyhymnion.org wrote: No. - Original Message - From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Is there a theorbo version of the Tombeau de Comte de Logy? Perhaps I could try to make one? Is there any modern notation version of the d-minor lute tab? Or at least and of course the d-minor lute tab in the net? If anyone would be interested? I do have some feel and touch to the theorbo tuning's funnynessess... ;-) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau for Logy for Theorbo?
It is way too idiomatic. RT - Original Message - From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau for Logy for Theorbo? On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:50:32 -0400, Roman Turovsky lu...@polyhymnion.org wrote: No. - Original Message - From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Is there a theorbo version of the Tombeau de Comte de Logy? Perhaps I could try to make one? Is there any modern notation version of the d-minor lute tab? Or at least and of course the d-minor lute tab in the net? If anyone would be interested? I do have some feel and touch to the theorbo tuning's funnynessess... ;-) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau for Logy for Theorbo?
No. ed At 11:02 AM 8/24/2009, David van Ooijen wrote: --===AVGMAIL-33507242=== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To the collected wisdom Is there a theorbo version of the Tombeau de Comte de Logy? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --===AVGMAIL-33507242=== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundaryAVGMAIL-0CDA6057=== --===AVGMAIL-0CDA6057=== Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: AVG certification No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 08/24/09 0= 6:05:00 --===AVGMAIL-0CDA6057===-- --===AVGMAIL-33507242===-- Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] viol and theorbo
Hello lute players, I am searching for some music for renaissance viol and theorbo... Can anyone point some sources on the net? Or if somebody have some files to share I would be gratefull. Many thanks. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
