Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Uwe Stöhr wrote:
  Except for DocBook classes.

 It is impossible to make it right for all cases. 

I don't think so. Embedded Raw Text matches pretty much all cases.

 DocBook is rarely used compared to (La)(Xe)(pdfla)TeX. 

This doesn't matter. LyX is not a LaTeX frontend (only).

 The naming problem is th same as with short
 title, in some cases it is the short tittle but often only the optional
 argument.

Which is a bug (I mean, the naming).

Jürgen

UI in french

[alain . didierjean]

Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to be
in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ? Setting
Tools/Preferences/Language/User Interface Language to french doesn't make
any difference...

--
~adj~

Re: Lyx install fails in MiKTex install

[Uwe Stöhr]

Ian S. Worthington schrieb:


That seems to fix the problem with scrbook.layout, but if I create NewFrom
Template and select docbook_article.lyx, it then fails to find docbook.layout,
even though this again is present in the layouts directory.


Not every package we provide a layout for is available for free. Some LaTeX-packages have a 
proprietary license so you need to install them manually if you really need them. Do you really need 
DocBook, if yes, please search wiki.lyx.org if your find there more infos.


regards Uwe

Re: UI in french

[Uwe Stöhr]

alain.didierj...@free.fr schrieb:


Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to be
in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ?


What OS are you using? On Windows, you can change the lyx.bat file when you have installed LyX with 
the alternative installer, on Linux, you can change the menu language in the preferences menu. In 
both cases you need to restart LyX afterwards.


regards Uwe

LyX for bill drafting

[Dan Fitch]

I have some general questions about using LyX for a somewhat different
type of publication than it is currently built for.

(As an aside, kudos to whoever coded the nested equation editing stuff. WOW.)


I'm curious if anyone else is trying to do this with LyX: I work at
the Wisconsin Legislature, which currently drafts bills and edits its
statutes and various other documents in a technical publishing suite
called QuickSilver, previously known in the 80s and 90s as InterLeaf.

Our current systems are somewhat template-based, like LyX, but
[unfortunately] the user base has gotten used to the idea of
formatting carrying semantic meaning; a problem I'm sure some folks on
this list have dealt with in the past. LyX tries to minimize this,
while still giving the user a good idea of what the finished product
will look like... which is awesome.

Current examples of our output, as a frame of reference for my questions:

statute: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0005.pdf
bill: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2009/data/AB-1.pdf


We're trying to add more functionality (links, bookmarks) to our PDFs,
and possibly move to an open source editing environment in the future.
I have a few questions now after my experimenting, though!


1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
make a cross reference to a section or subsection, without adding a
label? So the user might say As defined in s. 10.91 without having
to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?

(Re: 1 and 2, I think we would possibly end up using section types
like Section* in the default article class and allowing the user to
input arbitrary numbers and letters at the beginning, and then having
an external filter to update labels at the correct points with the
correct names. That would then allow the users to quickly link to
arbitrary depths; a statute reference can go 6 levels deep with fairly
arbitrary numbering, like 10.91 (2m) (c) 1. a... Trust me, you
probably don't want to know more about that.)

3. Non-line-breaking sections. You will notice that if a child
subsection follows a section, it does not cause a line break. See the
example statute at the top after the TOC: 5.01  Scope.  (1)
Construction... the section .01 flows directly into its first
subsection (1).  Is it possible to set up a custom document class to
do this? I'm a TeX novice at this point, so I'm just asking for yes,
that is possible or no, don't even try it.

4. Line numbering. Is it possible with LaTeX to do line numbering on a
per-page, per-section-type basis? I can see how to turn it off and
back on, but look at the bill example -- the numbers need to start
over on each successive page. (Again, I have no idea why they do it
this way, but we have to figure out how to support it.)


Thanks for your time if you read this far. I really am amazed by the
program -- even if we can't quite mold it for legislation, I will
definitely be recommending it to my friends who are frustrated writing
academic papers in Word.

It makes me *want* to write a book. Scary.

Dan

Re: UI in french

[alain . didierjean]

Selon Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de:

 alain.didierj...@free.fr schrieb:

  Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to be
  in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ?

 What OS are you using? On Windows, you can change the lyx.bat file when you
 have installed LyX with
 the alternative installer, on Linux, you can change the menu language in the
 preferences menu. In
 both cases you need to restart LyX afterwards.

I use gentoo Linux and Preferences setings has no effect...

--
~adj~

[Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
now.
I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

Thanks a lot.

Etienne Lepercq
-- 
Sincerily

Re: UI in french

[Kornel Benko]

Am Montag 13 April 2009 schrieb alain.didierj...@free.fr:
 Selon Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de:
  alain.didierj...@free.fr schrieb:
   Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to
   be in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ?
 
  What OS are you using? On Windows, you can change the lyx.bat file when
  you have installed LyX with
  the alternative installer, on Linux, you can change the menu language in
  the preferences menu. In
  both cases you need to restart LyX afterwards.

 I use gentoo Linux and Preferences setings has no effect...

It should. But yuo have to save the preferencies too, not only use a new 
language.

Besides, you can set the environment var. LANGUAGE to e.g. fr and the start 
lyx.

In csh:
setenv LANGUAGE fr

Kornel





signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Paul A. Rubin]

Etienne lepercq wrote:

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
now.
I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

Thanks a lot.

Etienne Lepercq


An alternative to swapping tarballs or zip archives back and forth is to 
set up a version control system on a server somewhere, with Internet 
access, and let users check drafts in and out.  LyX supports CVS and 
Subversion (that I know of) and maybe other versioning systems. 
Assuming that you have access to a server, it's pretty easy to set up a 
versioning service (speaking from personal experience).  This approach 
lets the user download/upload just the changes, and helps prevent 
collisions when two coauthors get the urge to edit the same section 
concurrently.


/Paul

Re: agutex layout?

[Gwen Barnes]

 If it is really different, we need a new layout, yes. Does it replace the
 older one(s)?



It does replace the older ones in that it seems to be the only one they are
offering now.  It's supposed to work for all the different AGU journals.
I'm not sure how different the final output is, but (I think) that (a)
without being able to  download the old class/style files I don't think I
can use the old layouts, and (b) when submitting a paper they're probably
going to expect a latex file using the new latex class.

http://www.agu.org/pubs/helpdesk/

-Gwen

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Richard Heck]

Dan Fitch wrote:

1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
make a cross reference to a section or subsection, without adding a
label? So the user might say As defined in s. 10.91 without having
to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

  
Not at present, though this functionality has been much discussed. I.e., 
a kind of auto-label that exists for certain kinds of elements. Come 
to think of it, work just done by Vincent van Ravesteijn might well put 
this within reach. Vincent, the thought is this: Use the context menu in 
the TOC. I'm sure there are lots of issues, though, that I've not yet 
considered.



2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?

  

No, but it might be possible to do this via modules. I'm not sure.


3. Non-line-breaking sections. You will notice that if a child
subsection follows a section, it does not cause a line break. See the
example statute at the top after the TOC: 5.01  Scope.  (1)
Construction... the section .01 flows directly into its first
subsection (1).  Is it possible to set up a custom document class to
do this? I'm a TeX novice at this point, so I'm just asking for yes,
that is possible or no, don't even try it.

  
Yes. And it's not terribly hard. One way is to use the titlesec package 
with some standard class. Another is to use the koma* classes, which 
provide for LOTS of customization. I think that's also true of memoir.



4. Line numbering. Is it possible with LaTeX to do line numbering on a
per-page, per-section-type basis? I can see how to turn it off and
back on, but look at the bill example -- the numbers need to start
over on each successive page. (Again, I have no idea why they do it
this way, but we have to figure out how to support it.)

  

http://www-d0.fnal.gov/Run2Physics/WWW/templates/lineno.html

There are some packages particularly for use with legal documents, I 
believe. You might check into those.


rh

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Paul A. Rubin wrote:

Etienne lepercq wrote:
I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a 
few time

now.
I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As 
LyX is

much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to 
handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have 
to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to 
untar

it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over 
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on

#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were 
released !!


This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

Thanks a lot.

Etienne Lepercq


An alternative to swapping tarballs or zip archives back and forth is 
to set up a version control system on a server somewhere, with 
Internet access, and let users check drafts in and out.  LyX supports 
CVS and Subversion (that I know of) and maybe other versioning 
systems. Assuming that you have access to a server, it's pretty easy 
to set up a versioning service (speaking from personal experience).  
This approach lets the user download/upload just the changes, and 
helps prevent collisions when two coauthors get the urge to edit the 
same section concurrently.


And there are all kinds of free services out there, too, that will allow 
simple versioning systems.


rh

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Etienne lepercq wrote:

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX 
is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

  
I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite 
simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on 
where you can put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to 
arbitrary locations in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so 
it was disagreements over how to manage these sorts of issues that led 
to our not releasing anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of 
the good being sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd 
really rather not have that battle again.


So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have 
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the 
work I did before and make it functional.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Philippe Grosjean]

OpenOffice does that with the Open Document format (.odx). Java does 
that with JARs, Mozilla does that with plugins, ... Everytime it is the 
same: a zipped directory tree. Perhaps, such a format (kind of .zlyx) 
could be purely optional? It shouldn't replace the original format. That 
way, opponents could use their usual .lyx files and place their figures 
where they like. I would be very happy to get such a feature!

Best,

Philippe Grosjean
..°}))
 ) ) ) ) )
( ( ( ( (Prof. Philippe Grosjean
 ) ) ) ) )
( ( ( ( (Numerical Ecology of Aquatic Systems
 ) ) ) ) )   Mons-Hainaut University, Belgium
( ( ( ( (
..

Richard Heck wrote:

Etienne lepercq wrote:
I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few 
time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an 
article. As LyX is

much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to 
handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to 
build

an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over 
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on

#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

  
I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite 
simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on 
where you can put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to 
arbitrary locations in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so 
it was disagreements over how to manage these sorts of issues that led 
to our not releasing anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of 
the good being sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd 
really rather not have that battle again.


So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have 
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the 
work I did before and make it functional.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

2009/4/13, Richard Heck rgh...@bobjweil.com:

 Etienne lepercq wrote:

 I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few
 time
 now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As
 LyX is
 much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
 collaborators to give a try to LyX.

 There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
 sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
 build
 an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
 it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
 archive, etc...

 This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
 solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
 archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
 figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
 .lyxZ files ;-)

 Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
 on
 #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
 once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

 This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
 feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
 implementation ?



 I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite simple,
 both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on where you can
 put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to arbitrary locations
 in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so it was disagreements
 over how to manage these sorts of issues that led to our not releasing
 anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of the good being
 sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd really rather not have
 that battle again.

 So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

 That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have mentioned
 here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the work I did
 before and make it functional.

 Richard


I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is willing to
work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to tar/untar ...
will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary files
(as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be considered as
temporary files from the user's point of view) but currently LyX _does_ use
temporary files when working with an unsaved document !

I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the
quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, when
compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG applications
like OOo or MS-Word).

Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML to
better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same
disagreements still exist ?

Etienne Lepercq
-- 
Sincerily

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

2009/4/13, Richard Heck rgh...@bobjweil.com:

 Etienne lepercq wrote:

 I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few
 time
 now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As
 LyX is
 much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
 collaborators to give a try to LyX.

 There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
 sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
 build
 an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
 it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
 archive, etc...

 This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
 solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
 archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
 figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
 .lyxZ files ;-)

 Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
 on
 #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
 once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

 This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
 feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
 implementation ?



 I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite simple,
 both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on where you can
 put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to arbitrary locations
 in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so it was disagreements
 over how to manage these sorts of issues that led to our not releasing
 anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of the good being
 sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd really rather not have
 that battle again.

 So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

 That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have mentioned
 here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the work I did
 before and make it functional.

 Richard


I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is willing to
work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to tar/untar ...
will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary files
(as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be considered as
temporary files from the user's point of view) but currently LyX _does_ use
temporary files when working with an unsaved document !

I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the
quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, when
compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG applications
like OOo or MS-Word).

Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML to
better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same
disagreements still exist ?

Etienne Lepercq
-- 
Sincerily

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Philippe Grosjean wrote:
OpenOffice does that with the Open Document format (.odx). Java does 
that with JARs, Mozilla does that with plugins, ... Everytime it is 
the same: a zipped directory tree. Perhaps, such a format (kind of 
.zlyx) could be purely optional? It shouldn't replace the original 
format. That way, opponents could use their usual .lyx files and place 
their figures where they like. I would be very happy to get such a 
feature!



No, certainly it wouldn't replace anything.

rh


Richard Heck wrote:

Etienne lepercq wrote:
I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a 
few time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an 
article. As LyX is

much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to 
handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have 
to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to 
untar

it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over 
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were 
made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were 
released !!


This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have 
such

feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

  
I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite 
simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on 
where you can put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to 
arbitrary locations in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And 
so it was disagreements over how to manage these sorts of issues that 
led to our not releasing anything. To my mind, this was a perfect 
example of the good being sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, 
well, I'd really rather not have that battle again.


So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have 
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect 
the work I did before and make it functional.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Etienne lepercq wrote:



2009/4/13, Richard Heck rgh...@bobjweil.com 
mailto:rgh...@bobjweil.com:


Etienne lepercq wrote:

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for
quiet a few time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an
article. As LyX is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I
convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not
easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one
have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators
have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive,
send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One
simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open,
say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could
be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations
were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were
released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to
have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one
relatively-good
implementation ?

 


I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it
quite simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes
restrictions on where you can put files, since you can't (and
don't want to) untar to arbitrary locations in the filesystem.
This bothered some people. And so it was disagreements over how to
manage these sorts of issues that led to our not releasing
anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of the good being
sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd really rather
not have that battle again.

So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect
the work I did before and make it functional.

Richard


I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is 
willing to work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to 
tar/untar ... will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary 
files (as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be 
considered as temporary files from the user's point of view) but 
currently LyX _does_ use temporary files when working with an unsaved 
document !


That's precisely what my old implementation did: untar to the temporary 
directory.


I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the 
quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, 
when compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG 
applications like OOo or MS-Word).


Yes, this model is similar to OOo, etc. Images and the like get 
embedded within the document and lose touch with where they came from. 
But it's a familiar model.


Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML 
to better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same 
disagreements still exist ?



At least in some quarters, these worries still exist.

On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a while 
ago. I don't know how far he got.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

 I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is willing
 to work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to tar/untar ...
 will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
 Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary
 files (as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be considered as
 temporary files from the user's point of view) but currently LyX _does_ use
 temporary files when working with an unsaved document !

  That's precisely what my old implementation did: untar to the temporary
 directory.

  I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the
 quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, when
 compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG applications
 like OOo or MS-Word).

  Yes, this model is similar to OOo, etc. Images and the like get
 embedded within the document and lose touch with where they came from.
 But it's a familiar model.


Yes, that's a major drawback ! But the .zlyx could be used as an export
file format to share with others, then one could just merge back the .lyx
embedded into the .zlyx : I see this as a way one can use this feature, but
some may want to use it otherwise (as everyone does when using OOo for
example, reinsert the figure)


Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML to
 better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same
 disagreements still exist ?

  At least in some quarters, these worries still exist.

 On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a while ago.
 I don't know how far he got.

 Richard


I think this feature should be at least re-discussed.
And thank you for your answers !
Etienne


-- 
Sincerily

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a while 
ago. I don't know how far he got.


Actually, I have an implementation of something that allows you to 
export a zipped archive with all figures, bibtex files, child documents, 
etc.etc.



Richard



Vincent

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

Richard Heck schreef:

Dan Fitch wrote:

1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
make a cross reference to a section or subsection, without adding a
label? So the user might say As defined in s. 10.91 without having
to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

  
Not at present, though this functionality has been much discussed. 
I.e., a kind of auto-label that exists for certain kinds of 
elements. Come to think of it, work just done by Vincent van 
Ravesteijn might well put this within reach. Vincent, the thought is 
this: Use the context menu in the TOC. I'm sure there are lots of 
issues, though, that I've not yet considered.

Yes, I've thought about this.

You could indeed imagine a context menu item in the TOC Insert 
reference to section, that will insert a label and a reference at once. 
Or one can think of  a second tab in the cross-reference dialog showing 
all sections too.


Vincent

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Etienne lepercq wrote:




I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that
is willing to work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but
having to tar/untar ... will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar
temporary files (as with this approach, I think un-tared files
should be considered as temporary files from the user's point
of view) but currently LyX _does_ use temporary files when
working with an unsaved document !

That's precisely what my old implementation did: untar to the
temporary directory.

I think that preserving the same temporary path is not
decreasing the quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for
some people, a must have, when compared to the workflow some
have when working with WYSIWYG applications like OOo or MS-Word).

Yes, this model is similar to OOo, etc. Images and the like get
embedded within the document and lose touch with where they came
from. But it's a familiar model.


Yes, that's a major drawback ! But the .zlyx could be used as an 
export file format to share with others, then one could just merge 
back the .lyx embedded into the .zlyx : I see this as a way one can 
use this feature, but some may want to use it otherwise (as everyone 
does when using OOo for example, reinsert the figure)


This is where things get messy. If you just want an export format, then 
that actually exists already, kind of. There's a script, lyxpak.py, in 
the development tree that will pack a LyX file and all its 
dependencies, wherever they may be, into a tar, I think. Then it can be 
shipped off, unpacked, etc. The difficulty is then in updating. 
Obviously, you can unpack the tar yourself and do with it as you will. 
But, for security reasons, you do not really want LyX to be able 
automatically to unpack and write to arbitrary locations in your 
filesystem.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:


On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a 
while ago. I don't know how far he got.


Actually, I have an implementation of something that allows you to 
export a zipped archive with all figures, bibtex files, child 
documents, etc.etc.



Cool.

rh

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Charles de Miramon]

Richard Heck wrote:

 Dan Fitch wrote:
 1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
 make a cross reference to a section or subsection, without adding a
 label? So the user might say As defined in s. 10.91 without having
 to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

   
 Not at present, though this functionality has been much discussed. I.e.,
 a kind of auto-label that exists for certain kinds of elements. Come
 to think of it, work just done by Vincent van Ravesteijn might well put
 this within reach. Vincent, the thought is this: Use the context menu in
 the TOC. I'm sure there are lots of issues, though, that I've not yet
 considered.
 
 2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
 with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
 change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?

   
 No, but it might be possible to do this via modules. I'm not sure.
 

The tough part would be the (4) (4c) (4e) (4m) (5)

How does it work in your actual software ? Is there any logic in the letters 
?

Cheers,
Charles


-- 
http://www.kde-france.org

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Dan Fitch]

Thanks to the list denizens for being incredibly helpful on this
thread, already, within the space of a single day. You folks rock, and
you obviously have a fierce love of your project!

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Charles de Miramon
cmira...@kde-france.org wrote:
 Richard Heck wrote:

 Dan Fitch wrote:
 2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
 with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
 change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?


 No, but it might be possible to do this via modules. I'm not sure.


 The tough part would be the (4) (4c) (4e) (4m) (5)

 How does it work in your actual software ? Is there any logic in the letters
 ?

 Cheers,
 Charles

It is ad hoc so they can always insert sections between two existing
sections; for example, if there is already a 1 and a 2, they can't
renumber those very easily, on account of existing law which may refer
to them. So they make a 1m to go between. That's only one level of
the structured document; additionally, the cross references can go
across documents. It gets ugly, and it's a very large corpus of text.

As some folks on the lists are pointing out, this kind of arbitrary
section numbering and referencing is a bad idea for many reasons, not
least of which the fact that it clearly causes a huge mess. Of course,
labyrinthine systems have built up over the years to try validate the
user input. They are unmaintainable.

I am basically glorified tech support for this legacy system, so I
can't say DO IT THIS WAY! We are hoping to push the users in a saner
direction someday soon, and that may include something like:

- Extending LyX so that the cross reference window has a second tab
with a document structure tree, and if they pick an element from that,
it checks to see if there is a label there; creating it if not

- Reducing their reliance on implicit references, where they can say
See chapter 4, section 5.14 (b) and have that automatically turned
into a cross reference by The Labyrinth

- Convincing them that their current method of referencing is a bit crazy


All this cross reference stuff is one thing; the way bills get amended
is worse, derived directly from how they used to amend things with
typewriters, scissors, and tape by saying Change line 4 on page 3 to
read XYZ.

It seems initially like LyX is a pretty good fit for this problem area
-- I am curious if anyone else is using it, possibly along with some
of the legal LaTeX/TeX packages like jurabib or lextex.

Thanks again for all your input!

Dan

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Yury Davidouski]

That has been some interesting insight at the workings of modern  
legislature:)

list of figures

[Niko Schwarz]

Hello!
in my list of figures, the numbers of the figures are standing much too
close to the captions of the figures! what can i do?

niko

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Christian Ridderström]

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Richard Heck wrote:


 Yes, that's a major drawback ! But the .zlyx could be used as an
 export file format to share with others, then one could just merge
 back the .lyx embedded into the .zlyx : I see this as a way one can
 use this feature, but some may want to use it otherwise (as everyone
 does when using OOo for example, reinsert the figure)

This is where things get messy. If you just want an export format, then that 
actually exists already, kind of. There's a script, lyxpak.py, in the 
development tree that will pack a LyX file and all its dependencies, 
wherever they may be, into a tar, I think. Then it can be shipped off, 
unpacked, etc. The difficulty is then in updating. Obviously, you can 
unpack the tar yourself and do with it as you will. But, for security 
reasons, you do not really want LyX to be able automatically to unpack and 
write to arbitrary locations in your filesystem.


Aren't there options to 'tar' that can help with this, e.g. only allowing 
things to be written to somewhere inside a subdirectory.


As for the updating, I don't think 'tar' will be enough... you could 
expand the .tar-file into a separate directory and then compare the 
directories and manually move the files that have changed _and_ that you 
want to use to replace your version of those files. Then I thought a bit 
more for a solution, but what I came up with really just ended up 
amounting to a version control system where you were emailing changes.


So why not go for a distributed version control system that supports 
sending changes (or all of it) as e-mail. This way you can get by without 
a server.


/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: Lyx install fails in MiKTex install

[Ian S. Worthington]

Uwe, Richard --

Many thanks.

I do need Docbook (I think), but the information of the wiki seems to be
rather out of date and/or confusing.

I'll start another thread for this I think and consolidate my thoughts.

Thanks again.

i

-- Original Message --
Received: 08:50 AM COT, 04/13/2009
From: Richard Heck rgh...@bobjweil.com
To: Ian S. Worthington ianworthing...@usa.netCc: Uwe Stöhr
uwesto...@web.de,  lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject: Re: Lyx install fails in MiKTex install

 Ian S. Worthington wrote:
  Thanks Uwe.
 
  That seems to fix the problem with scrbook.layout, but if I create
NewFrom
  Template and select docbook_article.lyx, it then fails to find
docbook.layout,
  even though this again is present in the layouts directory.
 

 It's not the layout it fails to find, I wouldn't think, but rather the 
 files for compiling docbook. As Uwe said in a different message, not 
 everything you could possibly use with LyX gets installed with LyX. LyX 
 is a tool that can be used with lots of different things (and more are 
 coming).
 
 rh
 
 

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Niko Schwarz]

to help sharing files, dropbox is excellent.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Etienne lepercq e.gu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
 now.
 I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX
 is
 much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
 collaborators to give a try to LyX.

 There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
 sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
 build
 an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
 it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
 archive, etc...

 This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
 solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
 archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
 figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
 .lyxZ files ;-)

 Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
 on
 #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
 once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

 This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
 feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
 implementation ?

 Thanks a lot.

 Etienne Lepercq
 --
 Sincerily

Re: Lyx install fails in MiKTex install

[Uwe Stöhr]

Ian S. Worthington schrieb:


I do need Docbook (I think), but the information of the wiki seems to be
rather out of date and/or confusing.
I don't know anything about DocBook and therefroe ask you to improve the Wiki pages when you found 
out how it works.


thanks and regards
Uwe

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Just my two cents: Scientific Word was used to come with a utility
called Document Manager. It was able to pack everything in a .msg
file. The utility has a GUI that gives you options for choosing the
elements to include for the packing and other options during
unpacking.  I think that we were even allowed to distribute it to the
collaborators with whom we share files. I do not know if such a
solution would be sufficient and enough secure... Also, it worked only
for Windows, we would definitely need a cross-platform tool for LyX of
course. But, such a tool would definitely be useful.

Regards,

Murat

2009/4/13 Niko Schwarz niko.schw...@googlemail.com:
 to help sharing files, dropbox is excellent.

 On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Etienne lepercq e.gu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
 now.
 I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX
 is
 much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
 collaborators to give a try to LyX.

 There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
 sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
 build
 an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
 it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
 archive, etc...

 This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
 solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
 archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
 figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
 .lyxZ files ;-)

 Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
 on
 #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
 once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

 This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
 feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
 implementation ?

 Thanks a lot.

 Etienne Lepercq
 --
 Sincerily





-- 
*** NEW UNIVERSITY, NEW ADDRESS ! ***

Prof. Murat Yildizoglu
Université Paul Cézanne (Aix-Marseille 3)
GREQAM (UMR CNRS 6579)
Centre de la Vieille Charité
2, rue de la Charité
13236 Marseille cedex 02

Bureau 320
Tel : +33 4 91 14 07 27 (standard)
Tel : +33 4 91 14 07 70 (secrétariat)
Tel : +33 4 91 14 07 47 (bureau)
Fax : +33 4 91 90 02 27

e-mail: murat.yildizo...@univ-cezanne.fr
www : http://www.vcharite.univ-mrs.fr/PP/yildi/index.html
http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu
__

Re: list of figures

[Uwe Stöhr]

Niko Schwarz schrieb:


in my list of figures, the numbers of the figures are standing much too
close to the captions of the figures! what can i do?


Add this command to your document preamble:

\newcommand...@figure{\@dottedtocline{1}{1.5em}{2.3em}}

(http://texnik.dante.de/cgi-bin/mainFAQ.cgi?file=tocloft/TOC#label)

regards Uwe

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[rgheck]

Christian Ridderström wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Richard Heck wrote:


 Yes, that's a major drawback ! But the .zlyx could be used as an
 export file format to share with others, then one could just merge
 back the .lyx embedded into the .zlyx : I see this as a way one can
 use this feature, but some may want to use it otherwise (as everyone
 does when using OOo for example, reinsert the figure)

This is where things get messy. If you just want an export format, 
then that actually exists already, kind of. There's a script, 
lyxpak.py, in the development tree that will pack a LyX file and 
all its dependencies, wherever they may be, into a tar, I think. Then 
it can be shipped off, unpacked, etc. The difficulty is then in 
updating. Obviously, you can unpack the tar yourself and do with it 
as you will. But, for security reasons, you do not really want LyX to 
be able automatically to unpack and write to arbitrary locations in 
your filesystem.


Aren't there options to 'tar' that can help with this, e.g. only 
allowing things to be written to somewhere inside a subdirectory.


Yes, of course, and if you're not worried about updating, then that is 
sufficient.


rh

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[rgheck]

Murat Yildizoglu wrote:

Just my two cents: Scientific Word was used to come with a utility
called Document Manager. It was able to pack everything in a .msg
file. The utility has a GUI that gives you options for choosing the
elements to include for the packing and other options during
unpacking.  I think that we were even allowed to distribute it to the
collaborators with whom we share files. I do not know if such a
solution would be sufficient and enough secure... Also, it worked only
for Windows, we would definitely need a cross-platform tool for LyX of
course. But, such a tool would definitely be useful.

  
I'll second what a few others have said: A version control system is 
really the way to go for collaboration. You get easy exchanges, easy 
updating, conflict management, plus you get versioned archving of 
everything you do. There are plenty of free hosting services for this 
kind of thing, if you don't already have access to some server or other.


Richard

Lyx and DocBook

[Ian S. Worthington]

I'm trying to find a content markup system (authoring and processing) that can
output to various formats. Something which can be both viewed and printed,
such as PDF, is probably a must, and something easily accessed online, such as
HTML is close behind.  If I could also produce CHM (or similar) Windows help
files that would be nice too.

I come from a IBM BookMaster background so I'm comfortable with content
markup, and don't really need an authoring tool to work with it.  DocBook
seems to fit most of my needs but the markup syntax is user-hostile.  The
DocBook wiki points to a number of authoring tools, most of which are just
generic XML editors.  The only DocBook-specific tool there verges on the
unusable.  It also lists Lyx which seems a mature and usable tool for Latex,
and produces highly attractive PDF documents.  I read though that getting
attractive HTML out of it is difficult.

If I understand correctly I have to choose a target language for Lyx from the
start:  I can't start off with Latex and then later decide to I want to target
DocBook, for example.

So having got Lyx installed I'm looking in more detail at DocBook.  A lot of
the information seems to be out of date.  There's a Lyx-to-X project that only
works up to v1.2.0 of Lyx, and some old discussions on various sites of
needing sgmltools, sgmltools-lite, or maybe sgmltools2, which appear to have
been abandoned some years ago.

This mailing lists contains occasional requests for help, but not too much
information.  If it wasn't for the information at
http://www.neomantic.com/tutorials/lyx-and-docbookXML I would have concluded
that DocBook support in Lyx had been effectively abandoned.

I wonder then if someone could help me with the following:
 
1. Am I right in my thinking that if I want good quality HTML and potentially
CHM output, as well as PDF, then DocBook is the way to go rather than Latex?

2. And that if I want DocBook, then I need to be using that from the start?

3. Is DocBook development in Lyx abandonded or is it just quiet for the
moment?

4. Is there any documentation on what a user of the latest version of Lyx has
to do to resolve the unavailable class messages when using DocBook, and what
they need to install in 2009 to get output from it.

Thanks,

i

Re: Lyx and DocBook

[Richard Talley]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Ian S. Worthington
ianworthing...@usa.net wrote:

 It also lists Lyx which seems a mature and usable tool for Latex,
 and produces highly attractive PDF documents.  I read though that getting
 attractive HTML out of it is difficult.


I''m getting good results out of the new tool ELyXer.

http://wiki.lyx.org/Tools/ELyXer

There have been a couple of threads about ELyXer on this mailing list.
It's new and has some limitations. For instance, no TOC generation
yet.

However, the tool's author, Alex Fernandez, really likes getting
challenging documents and making ELyXer work with them.

-- Rich

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

2009/4/13, Niko Schwarz niko.schw...@googlemail.com:

 to help sharing files, dropbox is excellent.

 Hmm interesting idea : I'll try, even if it imply using a third-party tool.
I'll give it a try.

-- 
Sincerily

Re: Lyx and DocBook

[rgheck]

Ian S. Worthington wrote:

If I understand correctly I have to choose a target language for Lyx from the
start:  I can't start off with Latex and then later decide to I want to target
DocBook, for example.

  
No, you can switch the documents. There may be some issues about how 
different bits of formatting get converted that will make things easier 
or more difficult. But these can often be resolved using an external 
script of some sort (sed, awk, perl, etc).



This mailing lists contains occasional requests for help, but not too much
information.  If it wasn't for the information at
http://www.neomantic.com/tutorials/lyx-and-docbookXML I would have concluded
that DocBook support in Lyx had been effectively abandoned.

  
No, it still exists. Not many people use it, though, so how current it 
is, etc, is unclear. That said, however, there are some developers who 
pay attention to DocBook, and I think it's intended that it be usable.



I wonder then if someone could help me with the following:
 
1. Am I right in my thinking that if I want good quality HTML and potentially

CHM output, as well as PDF, then DocBook is the way to go rather than Latex?

  
Possibly, though there are a lot of options for HTML now. You might 
check out plastex, which looks to me to be the most promising.



2. And that if I want DocBook, then I need to be using that from the start?

  

Not necessarily. See above.


3. Is DocBook development in Lyx abandonded or is it just quiet for the moment?

  
See above again. Though perhaps it's worth my saying what DocBook 
development is. There are just two aspects to it: (i) The DocBook 
layouts; (ii) the DocBook output routines. Both of these could be worked 
on by newbies, to some extent, certainly the layouts and very probably 
the output routines.



4. Is there any documentation on what a user of the latest version of Lyx has
to do to resolve the unavailable class messages when using DocBook, and what
they need to install in 2009 to get output from it.

  
I'm not sure. But looking at configure.py, it seems that you need 
sgmltools installed, or else db2dvi or db2html.


I'm cc'ing Martin Vermeer, as I think he knows about this

Richard



Thanks,

i






  

Re: list of figures

[Niko Schwarz]

hmm. then i get this error message:

@figur...@dottedtocline{1}{1.5em}{2.3em}}

 Your command was ignored.

Type I command return to replace it with another command,

or return to continue without it.


niko

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de wrote:

 Niko Schwarz schrieb:

  in my list of figures, the numbers of the figures are standing much too
 close to the captions of the figures! what can i do?


 Add this command to your document preamble:

 \newcommand...@figure{\@dottedtocline{1}{1.5em}{2.3em}}

 (http://texnik.dante.de/cgi-bin/mainFAQ.cgi?file=tocloft/TOC#label)

 regards Uwe

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Uwe Stöhr wrote:
  Except for DocBook classes.

 It is impossible to make it right for all cases. 

I don't think so. Embedded Raw Text matches pretty much all cases.

 DocBook is rarely used compared to (La)(Xe)(pdfla)TeX. 

This doesn't matter. LyX is not a LaTeX frontend (only).

 The naming problem is th same as with short
 title, in some cases it is the short tittle but often only the optional
 argument.

Which is a bug (I mean, the naming).

Jürgen

UI in french

[alain . didierjean]

Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to be
in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ? Setting
Tools/Preferences/Language/User Interface Language to french doesn't make
any difference...

--
~adj~

Re: Lyx install fails in MiKTex install

[Uwe Stöhr]

Ian S. Worthington schrieb:


That seems to fix the problem with scrbook.layout, but if I create NewFrom
Template and select docbook_article.lyx, it then fails to find docbook.layout,
even though this again is present in the layouts directory.


Not every package we provide a layout for is available for free. Some LaTeX-packages have a 
proprietary license so you need to install them manually if you really need them. Do you really need 
DocBook, if yes, please search wiki.lyx.org if your find there more infos.


regards Uwe

Re: UI in french

[Uwe Stöhr]

alain.didierj...@free.fr schrieb:


Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to be
in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ?


What OS are you using? On Windows, you can change the lyx.bat file when you have installed LyX with 
the alternative installer, on Linux, you can change the menu language in the preferences menu. In 
both cases you need to restart LyX afterwards.


regards Uwe

LyX for bill drafting

[Dan Fitch]

I have some general questions about using LyX for a somewhat different
type of publication than it is currently built for.

(As an aside, kudos to whoever coded the nested equation editing stuff. WOW.)


I'm curious if anyone else is trying to do this with LyX: I work at
the Wisconsin Legislature, which currently drafts bills and edits its
statutes and various other documents in a technical publishing suite
called QuickSilver, previously known in the 80s and 90s as InterLeaf.

Our current systems are somewhat template-based, like LyX, but
[unfortunately] the user base has gotten used to the idea of
formatting carrying semantic meaning; a problem I'm sure some folks on
this list have dealt with in the past. LyX tries to minimize this,
while still giving the user a good idea of what the finished product
will look like... which is awesome.

Current examples of our output, as a frame of reference for my questions:

statute: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0005.pdf
bill: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2009/data/AB-1.pdf


We're trying to add more functionality (links, bookmarks) to our PDFs,
and possibly move to an open source editing environment in the future.
I have a few questions now after my experimenting, though!


1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
make a cross reference to a section or subsection, without adding a
label? So the user might say As defined in s. 10.91 without having
to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?

(Re: 1 and 2, I think we would possibly end up using section types
like Section* in the default article class and allowing the user to
input arbitrary numbers and letters at the beginning, and then having
an external filter to update labels at the correct points with the
correct names. That would then allow the users to quickly link to
arbitrary depths; a statute reference can go 6 levels deep with fairly
arbitrary numbering, like 10.91 (2m) (c) 1. a... Trust me, you
probably don't want to know more about that.)

3. Non-line-breaking sections. You will notice that if a child
subsection follows a section, it does not cause a line break. See the
example statute at the top after the TOC: 5.01  Scope.  (1)
Construction... the section .01 flows directly into its first
subsection (1).  Is it possible to set up a custom document class to
do this? I'm a TeX novice at this point, so I'm just asking for yes,
that is possible or no, don't even try it.

4. Line numbering. Is it possible with LaTeX to do line numbering on a
per-page, per-section-type basis? I can see how to turn it off and
back on, but look at the bill example -- the numbers need to start
over on each successive page. (Again, I have no idea why they do it
this way, but we have to figure out how to support it.)


Thanks for your time if you read this far. I really am amazed by the
program -- even if we can't quite mold it for legislation, I will
definitely be recommending it to my friends who are frustrated writing
academic papers in Word.

It makes me *want* to write a book. Scary.

Dan

Re: UI in french

[alain . didierjean]

Selon Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de:

 alain.didierj...@free.fr schrieb:

  Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to be
  in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ?

 What OS are you using? On Windows, you can change the lyx.bat file when you
 have installed LyX with
 the alternative installer, on Linux, you can change the menu language in the
 preferences menu. In
 both cases you need to restart LyX afterwards.

I use gentoo Linux and Preferences setings has no effect...

--
~adj~

[Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
now.
I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

Thanks a lot.

Etienne Lepercq
-- 
Sincerily

Re: UI in french

[Kornel Benko]

Am Montag 13 April 2009 schrieb alain.didierj...@free.fr:
 Selon Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de:
  alain.didierj...@free.fr schrieb:
   Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to
   be in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ?
 
  What OS are you using? On Windows, you can change the lyx.bat file when
  you have installed LyX with
  the alternative installer, on Linux, you can change the menu language in
  the preferences menu. In
  both cases you need to restart LyX afterwards.

 I use gentoo Linux and Preferences setings has no effect...

It should. But yuo have to save the preferencies too, not only use a new 
language.

Besides, you can set the environment var. LANGUAGE to e.g. fr and the start 
lyx.

In csh:
setenv LANGUAGE fr

Kornel





signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Paul A. Rubin]

Etienne lepercq wrote:

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
now.
I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

Thanks a lot.

Etienne Lepercq


An alternative to swapping tarballs or zip archives back and forth is to 
set up a version control system on a server somewhere, with Internet 
access, and let users check drafts in and out.  LyX supports CVS and 
Subversion (that I know of) and maybe other versioning systems. 
Assuming that you have access to a server, it's pretty easy to set up a 
versioning service (speaking from personal experience).  This approach 
lets the user download/upload just the changes, and helps prevent 
collisions when two coauthors get the urge to edit the same section 
concurrently.


/Paul

Re: agutex layout?

[Gwen Barnes]

 If it is really different, we need a new layout, yes. Does it replace the
 older one(s)?



It does replace the older ones in that it seems to be the only one they are
offering now.  It's supposed to work for all the different AGU journals.
I'm not sure how different the final output is, but (I think) that (a)
without being able to  download the old class/style files I don't think I
can use the old layouts, and (b) when submitting a paper they're probably
going to expect a latex file using the new latex class.

http://www.agu.org/pubs/helpdesk/

-Gwen

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Richard Heck]

Dan Fitch wrote:

1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
make a cross reference to a section or subsection, without adding a
label? So the user might say As defined in s. 10.91 without having
to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

  
Not at present, though this functionality has been much discussed. I.e., 
a kind of auto-label that exists for certain kinds of elements. Come 
to think of it, work just done by Vincent van Ravesteijn might well put 
this within reach. Vincent, the thought is this: Use the context menu in 
the TOC. I'm sure there are lots of issues, though, that I've not yet 
considered.



2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?

  

No, but it might be possible to do this via modules. I'm not sure.


3. Non-line-breaking sections. You will notice that if a child
subsection follows a section, it does not cause a line break. See the
example statute at the top after the TOC: 5.01  Scope.  (1)
Construction... the section .01 flows directly into its first
subsection (1).  Is it possible to set up a custom document class to
do this? I'm a TeX novice at this point, so I'm just asking for yes,
that is possible or no, don't even try it.

  
Yes. And it's not terribly hard. One way is to use the titlesec package 
with some standard class. Another is to use the koma* classes, which 
provide for LOTS of customization. I think that's also true of memoir.



4. Line numbering. Is it possible with LaTeX to do line numbering on a
per-page, per-section-type basis? I can see how to turn it off and
back on, but look at the bill example -- the numbers need to start
over on each successive page. (Again, I have no idea why they do it
this way, but we have to figure out how to support it.)

  

http://www-d0.fnal.gov/Run2Physics/WWW/templates/lineno.html

There are some packages particularly for use with legal documents, I 
believe. You might check into those.


rh

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Paul A. Rubin wrote:

Etienne lepercq wrote:
I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a 
few time

now.
I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As 
LyX is

much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to 
handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have 
to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to 
untar

it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over 
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on

#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were 
released !!


This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

Thanks a lot.

Etienne Lepercq


An alternative to swapping tarballs or zip archives back and forth is 
to set up a version control system on a server somewhere, with 
Internet access, and let users check drafts in and out.  LyX supports 
CVS and Subversion (that I know of) and maybe other versioning 
systems. Assuming that you have access to a server, it's pretty easy 
to set up a versioning service (speaking from personal experience).  
This approach lets the user download/upload just the changes, and 
helps prevent collisions when two coauthors get the urge to edit the 
same section concurrently.


And there are all kinds of free services out there, too, that will allow 
simple versioning systems.


rh

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Etienne lepercq wrote:

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX 
is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

  
I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite 
simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on 
where you can put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to 
arbitrary locations in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so 
it was disagreements over how to manage these sorts of issues that led 
to our not releasing anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of 
the good being sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd 
really rather not have that battle again.


So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have 
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the 
work I did before and make it functional.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Philippe Grosjean]

OpenOffice does that with the Open Document format (.odx). Java does 
that with JARs, Mozilla does that with plugins, ... Everytime it is the 
same: a zipped directory tree. Perhaps, such a format (kind of .zlyx) 
could be purely optional? It shouldn't replace the original format. That 
way, opponents could use their usual .lyx files and place their figures 
where they like. I would be very happy to get such a feature!

Best,

Philippe Grosjean
..°}))
 ) ) ) ) )
( ( ( ( (Prof. Philippe Grosjean
 ) ) ) ) )
( ( ( ( (Numerical Ecology of Aquatic Systems
 ) ) ) ) )   Mons-Hainaut University, Belgium
( ( ( ( (
..

Richard Heck wrote:

Etienne lepercq wrote:
I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few 
time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an 
article. As LyX is

much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to 
handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to 
build

an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over 
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on

#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

  
I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite 
simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on 
where you can put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to 
arbitrary locations in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so 
it was disagreements over how to manage these sorts of issues that led 
to our not releasing anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of 
the good being sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd 
really rather not have that battle again.


So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have 
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the 
work I did before and make it functional.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

2009/4/13, Richard Heck rgh...@bobjweil.com:

 Etienne lepercq wrote:

 I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few
 time
 now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As
 LyX is
 much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
 collaborators to give a try to LyX.

 There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
 sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
 build
 an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
 it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
 archive, etc...

 This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
 solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
 archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
 figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
 .lyxZ files ;-)

 Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
 on
 #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
 once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

 This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
 feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
 implementation ?



 I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite simple,
 both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on where you can
 put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to arbitrary locations
 in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so it was disagreements
 over how to manage these sorts of issues that led to our not releasing
 anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of the good being
 sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd really rather not have
 that battle again.

 So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

 That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have mentioned
 here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the work I did
 before and make it functional.

 Richard


I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is willing to
work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to tar/untar ...
will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary files
(as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be considered as
temporary files from the user's point of view) but currently LyX _does_ use
temporary files when working with an unsaved document !

I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the
quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, when
compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG applications
like OOo or MS-Word).

Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML to
better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same
disagreements still exist ?

Etienne Lepercq
-- 
Sincerily

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

2009/4/13, Richard Heck rgh...@bobjweil.com:

 Etienne lepercq wrote:

 I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few
 time
 now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As
 LyX is
 much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
 collaborators to give a try to LyX.

 There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
 sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
 build
 an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
 it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
 archive, etc...

 This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
 solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
 archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
 figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
 .lyxZ files ;-)

 Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
 on
 #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
 once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

 This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
 feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
 implementation ?



 I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite simple,
 both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on where you can
 put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to arbitrary locations
 in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so it was disagreements
 over how to manage these sorts of issues that led to our not releasing
 anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of the good being
 sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd really rather not have
 that battle again.

 So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

 That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have mentioned
 here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the work I did
 before and make it functional.

 Richard


I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is willing to
work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to tar/untar ...
will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary files
(as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be considered as
temporary files from the user's point of view) but currently LyX _does_ use
temporary files when working with an unsaved document !

I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the
quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, when
compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG applications
like OOo or MS-Word).

Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML to
better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same
disagreements still exist ?

Etienne Lepercq
-- 
Sincerily

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Philippe Grosjean wrote:
OpenOffice does that with the Open Document format (.odx). Java does 
that with JARs, Mozilla does that with plugins, ... Everytime it is 
the same: a zipped directory tree. Perhaps, such a format (kind of 
.zlyx) could be purely optional? It shouldn't replace the original 
format. That way, opponents could use their usual .lyx files and place 
their figures where they like. I would be very happy to get such a 
feature!



No, certainly it wouldn't replace anything.

rh


Richard Heck wrote:

Etienne lepercq wrote:
I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a 
few time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an 
article. As LyX is

much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to 
handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have 
to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to 
untar

it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over 
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were 
made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were 
released !!


This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have 
such

feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

  
I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite 
simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on 
where you can put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to 
arbitrary locations in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And 
so it was disagreements over how to manage these sorts of issues that 
led to our not releasing anything. To my mind, this was a perfect 
example of the good being sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, 
well, I'd really rather not have that battle again.


So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have 
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect 
the work I did before and make it functional.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Etienne lepercq wrote:



2009/4/13, Richard Heck rgh...@bobjweil.com 
mailto:rgh...@bobjweil.com:


Etienne lepercq wrote:

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for
quiet a few time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an
article. As LyX is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I
convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not
easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one
have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators
have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive,
send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One
simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open,
say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could
be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations
were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were
released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to
have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one
relatively-good
implementation ?

 


I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it
quite simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes
restrictions on where you can put files, since you can't (and
don't want to) untar to arbitrary locations in the filesystem.
This bothered some people. And so it was disagreements over how to
manage these sorts of issues that led to our not releasing
anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of the good being
sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd really rather
not have that battle again.

So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect
the work I did before and make it functional.

Richard


I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is 
willing to work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to 
tar/untar ... will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary 
files (as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be 
considered as temporary files from the user's point of view) but 
currently LyX _does_ use temporary files when working with an unsaved 
document !


That's precisely what my old implementation did: untar to the temporary 
directory.


I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the 
quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, 
when compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG 
applications like OOo or MS-Word).


Yes, this model is similar to OOo, etc. Images and the like get 
embedded within the document and lose touch with where they came from. 
But it's a familiar model.


Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML 
to better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same 
disagreements still exist ?



At least in some quarters, these worries still exist.

On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a while 
ago. I don't know how far he got.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

 I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is willing
 to work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to tar/untar ...
 will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
 Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary
 files (as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be considered as
 temporary files from the user's point of view) but currently LyX _does_ use
 temporary files when working with an unsaved document !

  That's precisely what my old implementation did: untar to the temporary
 directory.

  I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the
 quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, when
 compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG applications
 like OOo or MS-Word).

  Yes, this model is similar to OOo, etc. Images and the like get
 embedded within the document and lose touch with where they came from.
 But it's a familiar model.


Yes, that's a major drawback ! But the .zlyx could be used as an export
file format to share with others, then one could just merge back the .lyx
embedded into the .zlyx : I see this as a way one can use this feature, but
some may want to use it otherwise (as everyone does when using OOo for
example, reinsert the figure)


Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML to
 better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same
 disagreements still exist ?

  At least in some quarters, these worries still exist.

 On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a while ago.
 I don't know how far he got.

 Richard


I think this feature should be at least re-discussed.
And thank you for your answers !
Etienne


-- 
Sincerily

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a while 
ago. I don't know how far he got.


Actually, I have an implementation of something that allows you to 
export a zipped archive with all figures, bibtex files, child documents, 
etc.etc.



Richard



Vincent

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

Richard Heck schreef:

Dan Fitch wrote:

1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
make a cross reference to a section or subsection, without adding a
label? So the user might say As defined in s. 10.91 without having
to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

  
Not at present, though this functionality has been much discussed. 
I.e., a kind of auto-label that exists for certain kinds of 
elements. Come to think of it, work just done by Vincent van 
Ravesteijn might well put this within reach. Vincent, the thought is 
this: Use the context menu in the TOC. I'm sure there are lots of 
issues, though, that I've not yet considered.

Yes, I've thought about this.

You could indeed imagine a context menu item in the TOC Insert 
reference to section, that will insert a label and a reference at once. 
Or one can think of  a second tab in the cross-reference dialog showing 
all sections too.


Vincent

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Etienne lepercq wrote:




I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that
is willing to work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but
having to tar/untar ... will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar
temporary files (as with this approach, I think un-tared files
should be considered as temporary files from the user's point
of view) but currently LyX _does_ use temporary files when
working with an unsaved document !

That's precisely what my old implementation did: untar to the
temporary directory.

I think that preserving the same temporary path is not
decreasing the quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for
some people, a must have, when compared to the workflow some
have when working with WYSIWYG applications like OOo or MS-Word).

Yes, this model is similar to OOo, etc. Images and the like get
embedded within the document and lose touch with where they came
from. But it's a familiar model.


Yes, that's a major drawback ! But the .zlyx could be used as an 
export file format to share with others, then one could just merge 
back the .lyx embedded into the .zlyx : I see this as a way one can 
use this feature, but some may want to use it otherwise (as everyone 
does when using OOo for example, reinsert the figure)


This is where things get messy. If you just want an export format, then 
that actually exists already, kind of. There's a script, lyxpak.py, in 
the development tree that will pack a LyX file and all its 
dependencies, wherever they may be, into a tar, I think. Then it can be 
shipped off, unpacked, etc. The difficulty is then in updating. 
Obviously, you can unpack the tar yourself and do with it as you will. 
But, for security reasons, you do not really want LyX to be able 
automatically to unpack and write to arbitrary locations in your 
filesystem.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:


On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a 
while ago. I don't know how far he got.


Actually, I have an implementation of something that allows you to 
export a zipped archive with all figures, bibtex files, child 
documents, etc.etc.



Cool.

rh

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Charles de Miramon]

Richard Heck wrote:

 Dan Fitch wrote:
 1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
 make a cross reference to a section or subsection, without adding a
 label? So the user might say As defined in s. 10.91 without having
 to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

   
 Not at present, though this functionality has been much discussed. I.e.,
 a kind of auto-label that exists for certain kinds of elements. Come
 to think of it, work just done by Vincent van Ravesteijn might well put
 this within reach. Vincent, the thought is this: Use the context menu in
 the TOC. I'm sure there are lots of issues, though, that I've not yet
 considered.
 
 2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
 with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
 change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?

   
 No, but it might be possible to do this via modules. I'm not sure.
 

The tough part would be the (4) (4c) (4e) (4m) (5)

How does it work in your actual software ? Is there any logic in the letters 
?

Cheers,
Charles


-- 
http://www.kde-france.org

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Dan Fitch]

Thanks to the list denizens for being incredibly helpful on this
thread, already, within the space of a single day. You folks rock, and
you obviously have a fierce love of your project!

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Charles de Miramon
cmira...@kde-france.org wrote:
 Richard Heck wrote:

 Dan Fitch wrote:
 2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
 with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
 change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?


 No, but it might be possible to do this via modules. I'm not sure.


 The tough part would be the (4) (4c) (4e) (4m) (5)

 How does it work in your actual software ? Is there any logic in the letters
 ?

 Cheers,
 Charles

It is ad hoc so they can always insert sections between two existing
sections; for example, if there is already a 1 and a 2, they can't
renumber those very easily, on account of existing law which may refer
to them. So they make a 1m to go between. That's only one level of
the structured document; additionally, the cross references can go
across documents. It gets ugly, and it's a very large corpus of text.

As some folks on the lists are pointing out, this kind of arbitrary
section numbering and referencing is a bad idea for many reasons, not
least of which the fact that it clearly causes a huge mess. Of course,
labyrinthine systems have built up over the years to try validate the
user input. They are unmaintainable.

I am basically glorified tech support for this legacy system, so I
can't say DO IT THIS WAY! We are hoping to push the users in a saner
direction someday soon, and that may include something like:

- Extending LyX so that the cross reference window has a second tab
with a document structure tree, and if they pick an element from that,
it checks to see if there is a label there; creating it if not

- Reducing their reliance on implicit references, where they can say
See chapter 4, section 5.14 (b) and have that automatically turned
into a cross reference by The Labyrinth

- Convincing them that their current method of referencing is a bit crazy


All this cross reference stuff is one thing; the way bills get amended
is worse, derived directly from how they used to amend things with
typewriters, scissors, and tape by saying Change line 4 on page 3 to
read XYZ.

It seems initially like LyX is a pretty good fit for this problem area
-- I am curious if anyone else is using it, possibly along with some
of the legal LaTeX/TeX packages like jurabib or lextex.

Thanks again for all your input!

Dan

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Yury Davidouski]

That has been some interesting insight at the workings of modern  
legislature:)

list of figures

[Niko Schwarz]

Hello!
in my list of figures, the numbers of the figures are standing much too
close to the captions of the figures! what can i do?

niko

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Christian Ridderström]

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Richard Heck wrote:


 Yes, that's a major drawback ! But the .zlyx could be used as an
 export file format to share with others, then one could just merge
 back the .lyx embedded into the .zlyx : I see this as a way one can
 use this feature, but some may want to use it otherwise (as everyone
 does when using OOo for example, reinsert the figure)

This is where things get messy. If you just want an export format, then that 
actually exists already, kind of. There's a script, lyxpak.py, in the 
development tree that will pack a LyX file and all its dependencies, 
wherever they may be, into a tar, I think. Then it can be shipped off, 
unpacked, etc. The difficulty is then in updating. Obviously, you can 
unpack the tar yourself and do with it as you will. But, for security 
reasons, you do not really want LyX to be able automatically to unpack and 
write to arbitrary locations in your filesystem.


Aren't there options to 'tar' that can help with this, e.g. only allowing 
things to be written to somewhere inside a subdirectory.


As for the updating, I don't think 'tar' will be enough... you could 
expand the .tar-file into a separate directory and then compare the 
directories and manually move the files that have changed _and_ that you 
want to use to replace your version of those files. Then I thought a bit 
more for a solution, but what I came up with really just ended up 
amounting to a version control system where you were emailing changes.


So why not go for a distributed version control system that supports 
sending changes (or all of it) as e-mail. This way you can get by without 
a server.


/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: Lyx install fails in MiKTex install

[Ian S. Worthington]

Uwe, Richard --

Many thanks.

I do need Docbook (I think), but the information of the wiki seems to be
rather out of date and/or confusing.

I'll start another thread for this I think and consolidate my thoughts.

Thanks again.

i

-- Original Message --
Received: 08:50 AM COT, 04/13/2009
From: Richard Heck rgh...@bobjweil.com
To: Ian S. Worthington ianworthing...@usa.netCc: Uwe Stöhr
uwesto...@web.de,  lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject: Re: Lyx install fails in MiKTex install

 Ian S. Worthington wrote:
  Thanks Uwe.
 
  That seems to fix the problem with scrbook.layout, but if I create
NewFrom
  Template and select docbook_article.lyx, it then fails to find
docbook.layout,
  even though this again is present in the layouts directory.
 

 It's not the layout it fails to find, I wouldn't think, but rather the 
 files for compiling docbook. As Uwe said in a different message, not 
 everything you could possibly use with LyX gets installed with LyX. LyX 
 is a tool that can be used with lots of different things (and more are 
 coming).
 
 rh
 
 

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Niko Schwarz]

to help sharing files, dropbox is excellent.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Etienne lepercq e.gu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
 now.
 I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX
 is
 much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
 collaborators to give a try to LyX.

 There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
 sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
 build
 an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
 it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
 archive, etc...

 This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
 solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
 archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
 figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
 .lyxZ files ;-)

 Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
 on
 #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
 once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

 This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
 feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
 implementation ?

 Thanks a lot.

 Etienne Lepercq
 --
 Sincerily

Re: Lyx install fails in MiKTex install

[Uwe Stöhr]

Ian S. Worthington schrieb:


I do need Docbook (I think), but the information of the wiki seems to be
rather out of date and/or confusing.
I don't know anything about DocBook and therefroe ask you to improve the Wiki pages when you found 
out how it works.


thanks and regards
Uwe

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Just my two cents: Scientific Word was used to come with a utility
called Document Manager. It was able to pack everything in a .msg
file. The utility has a GUI that gives you options for choosing the
elements to include for the packing and other options during
unpacking.  I think that we were even allowed to distribute it to the
collaborators with whom we share files. I do not know if such a
solution would be sufficient and enough secure... Also, it worked only
for Windows, we would definitely need a cross-platform tool for LyX of
course. But, such a tool would definitely be useful.

Regards,

Murat

2009/4/13 Niko Schwarz niko.schw...@googlemail.com:
 to help sharing files, dropbox is excellent.

 On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Etienne lepercq e.gu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
 now.
 I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX
 is
 much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
 collaborators to give a try to LyX.

 There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
 sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
 build
 an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
 it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
 archive, etc...

 This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
 solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
 archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
 figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
 .lyxZ files ;-)

 Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
 on
 #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
 once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

 This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
 feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
 implementation ?

 Thanks a lot.

 Etienne Lepercq
 --
 Sincerily





-- 
*** NEW UNIVERSITY, NEW ADDRESS ! ***

Prof. Murat Yildizoglu
Université Paul Cézanne (Aix-Marseille 3)
GREQAM (UMR CNRS 6579)
Centre de la Vieille Charité
2, rue de la Charité
13236 Marseille cedex 02

Bureau 320
Tel : +33 4 91 14 07 27 (standard)
Tel : +33 4 91 14 07 70 (secrétariat)
Tel : +33 4 91 14 07 47 (bureau)
Fax : +33 4 91 90 02 27

e-mail: murat.yildizo...@univ-cezanne.fr
www : http://www.vcharite.univ-mrs.fr/PP/yildi/index.html
http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu
__

Re: list of figures

[Uwe Stöhr]

Niko Schwarz schrieb:


in my list of figures, the numbers of the figures are standing much too
close to the captions of the figures! what can i do?


Add this command to your document preamble:

\newcommand...@figure{\@dottedtocline{1}{1.5em}{2.3em}}

(http://texnik.dante.de/cgi-bin/mainFAQ.cgi?file=tocloft/TOC#label)

regards Uwe

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[rgheck]

Christian Ridderström wrote:

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Richard Heck wrote:


 Yes, that's a major drawback ! But the .zlyx could be used as an
 export file format to share with others, then one could just merge
 back the .lyx embedded into the .zlyx : I see this as a way one can
 use this feature, but some may want to use it otherwise (as everyone
 does when using OOo for example, reinsert the figure)

This is where things get messy. If you just want an export format, 
then that actually exists already, kind of. There's a script, 
lyxpak.py, in the development tree that will pack a LyX file and 
all its dependencies, wherever they may be, into a tar, I think. Then 
it can be shipped off, unpacked, etc. The difficulty is then in 
updating. Obviously, you can unpack the tar yourself and do with it 
as you will. But, for security reasons, you do not really want LyX to 
be able automatically to unpack and write to arbitrary locations in 
your filesystem.


Aren't there options to 'tar' that can help with this, e.g. only 
allowing things to be written to somewhere inside a subdirectory.


Yes, of course, and if you're not worried about updating, then that is 
sufficient.


rh

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[rgheck]

Murat Yildizoglu wrote:

Just my two cents: Scientific Word was used to come with a utility
called Document Manager. It was able to pack everything in a .msg
file. The utility has a GUI that gives you options for choosing the
elements to include for the packing and other options during
unpacking.  I think that we were even allowed to distribute it to the
collaborators with whom we share files. I do not know if such a
solution would be sufficient and enough secure... Also, it worked only
for Windows, we would definitely need a cross-platform tool for LyX of
course. But, such a tool would definitely be useful.

  
I'll second what a few others have said: A version control system is 
really the way to go for collaboration. You get easy exchanges, easy 
updating, conflict management, plus you get versioned archving of 
everything you do. There are plenty of free hosting services for this 
kind of thing, if you don't already have access to some server or other.


Richard

Lyx and DocBook

[Ian S. Worthington]

I'm trying to find a content markup system (authoring and processing) that can
output to various formats. Something which can be both viewed and printed,
such as PDF, is probably a must, and something easily accessed online, such as
HTML is close behind.  If I could also produce CHM (or similar) Windows help
files that would be nice too.

I come from a IBM BookMaster background so I'm comfortable with content
markup, and don't really need an authoring tool to work with it.  DocBook
seems to fit most of my needs but the markup syntax is user-hostile.  The
DocBook wiki points to a number of authoring tools, most of which are just
generic XML editors.  The only DocBook-specific tool there verges on the
unusable.  It also lists Lyx which seems a mature and usable tool for Latex,
and produces highly attractive PDF documents.  I read though that getting
attractive HTML out of it is difficult.

If I understand correctly I have to choose a target language for Lyx from the
start:  I can't start off with Latex and then later decide to I want to target
DocBook, for example.

So having got Lyx installed I'm looking in more detail at DocBook.  A lot of
the information seems to be out of date.  There's a Lyx-to-X project that only
works up to v1.2.0 of Lyx, and some old discussions on various sites of
needing sgmltools, sgmltools-lite, or maybe sgmltools2, which appear to have
been abandoned some years ago.

This mailing lists contains occasional requests for help, but not too much
information.  If it wasn't for the information at
http://www.neomantic.com/tutorials/lyx-and-docbookXML I would have concluded
that DocBook support in Lyx had been effectively abandoned.

I wonder then if someone could help me with the following:
 
1. Am I right in my thinking that if I want good quality HTML and potentially
CHM output, as well as PDF, then DocBook is the way to go rather than Latex?

2. And that if I want DocBook, then I need to be using that from the start?

3. Is DocBook development in Lyx abandonded or is it just quiet for the
moment?

4. Is there any documentation on what a user of the latest version of Lyx has
to do to resolve the unavailable class messages when using DocBook, and what
they need to install in 2009 to get output from it.

Thanks,

i

Re: Lyx and DocBook

[Richard Talley]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Ian S. Worthington
ianworthing...@usa.net wrote:

 It also lists Lyx which seems a mature and usable tool for Latex,
 and produces highly attractive PDF documents.  I read though that getting
 attractive HTML out of it is difficult.


I''m getting good results out of the new tool ELyXer.

http://wiki.lyx.org/Tools/ELyXer

There have been a couple of threads about ELyXer on this mailing list.
It's new and has some limitations. For instance, no TOC generation
yet.

However, the tool's author, Alex Fernandez, really likes getting
challenging documents and making ELyXer work with them.

-- Rich

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

2009/4/13, Niko Schwarz niko.schw...@googlemail.com:

 to help sharing files, dropbox is excellent.

 Hmm interesting idea : I'll try, even if it imply using a third-party tool.
I'll give it a try.

-- 
Sincerily

Re: Lyx and DocBook

[rgheck]

Ian S. Worthington wrote:

If I understand correctly I have to choose a target language for Lyx from the
start:  I can't start off with Latex and then later decide to I want to target
DocBook, for example.

  
No, you can switch the documents. There may be some issues about how 
different bits of formatting get converted that will make things easier 
or more difficult. But these can often be resolved using an external 
script of some sort (sed, awk, perl, etc).



This mailing lists contains occasional requests for help, but not too much
information.  If it wasn't for the information at
http://www.neomantic.com/tutorials/lyx-and-docbookXML I would have concluded
that DocBook support in Lyx had been effectively abandoned.

  
No, it still exists. Not many people use it, though, so how current it 
is, etc, is unclear. That said, however, there are some developers who 
pay attention to DocBook, and I think it's intended that it be usable.



I wonder then if someone could help me with the following:
 
1. Am I right in my thinking that if I want good quality HTML and potentially

CHM output, as well as PDF, then DocBook is the way to go rather than Latex?

  
Possibly, though there are a lot of options for HTML now. You might 
check out plastex, which looks to me to be the most promising.



2. And that if I want DocBook, then I need to be using that from the start?

  

Not necessarily. See above.


3. Is DocBook development in Lyx abandonded or is it just quiet for the moment?

  
See above again. Though perhaps it's worth my saying what DocBook 
development is. There are just two aspects to it: (i) The DocBook 
layouts; (ii) the DocBook output routines. Both of these could be worked 
on by newbies, to some extent, certainly the layouts and very probably 
the output routines.



4. Is there any documentation on what a user of the latest version of Lyx has
to do to resolve the unavailable class messages when using DocBook, and what
they need to install in 2009 to get output from it.

  
I'm not sure. But looking at configure.py, it seems that you need 
sgmltools installed, or else db2dvi or db2html.


I'm cc'ing Martin Vermeer, as I think he knows about this

Richard



Thanks,

i






  

Re: list of figures

[Niko Schwarz]

hmm. then i get this error message:

@figur...@dottedtocline{1}{1.5em}{2.3em}}

 Your command was ignored.

Type I command return to replace it with another command,

or return to continue without it.


niko

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de wrote:

 Niko Schwarz schrieb:

  in my list of figures, the numbers of the figures are standing much too
 close to the captions of the figures! what can i do?


 Add this command to your document preamble:

 \newcommand...@figure{\@dottedtocline{1}{1.5em}{2.3em}}

 (http://texnik.dante.de/cgi-bin/mainFAQ.cgi?file=tocloft/TOC#label)

 regards Uwe

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Uwe Stöhr wrote:
> > Except for DocBook classes.
>
> It is impossible to make it right for all cases. 

I don't think so. "Embedded Raw Text" matches pretty much all cases.

> DocBook is rarely used compared to (La)(Xe)(pdfla)TeX. 

This doesn't matter. LyX is not a LaTeX frontend (only).

> The naming problem is th same as with short
> title, in some cases it is the short tittle but often only the optional
> argument.

Which is a bug (I mean, the naming).

Jürgen

UI in french

[alain . didierjean]

Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to be
in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ? Setting
Tools/Preferences/Language/User Interface Language to french doesn't make
any difference...

--
~adj~

Re: Lyx install fails in MiKTex install

[Uwe Stöhr]

Ian S. Worthington schrieb:


That seems to fix the problem with scrbook.layout, but if I create New>From
Template and select docbook_article.lyx, it then fails to find docbook.layout,
even though this again is present in the layouts directory.


Not every package we provide a layout for is available for free. Some LaTeX-packages have a 
proprietary license so you need to install them manually if you really need them. Do you really need 
DocBook, if yes, please search wiki.lyx.org if your find there more infos.


regards Uwe

Re: UI in french

[Uwe Stöhr]

alain.didierj...@free.fr schrieb:


Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to be
in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ?


What OS are you using? On Windows, you can change the lyx.bat file when you have installed LyX with 
the alternative installer, on Linux, you can change the menu language in the preferences menu. In 
both cases you need to restart LyX afterwards.


regards Uwe

LyX for bill drafting

[Dan Fitch]

I have some general questions about using LyX for a somewhat different
type of publication than it is currently built for.

(As an aside, kudos to whoever coded the nested equation editing stuff. WOW.)


I'm curious if anyone else is trying to do this with LyX: I work at
the Wisconsin Legislature, which currently drafts bills and edits its
statutes and various other documents in a technical publishing suite
called QuickSilver, previously known in the 80s and 90s as InterLeaf.

Our current systems are somewhat template-based, like LyX, but
[unfortunately] the user base has gotten used to the idea of
formatting carrying semantic meaning; a problem I'm sure some folks on
this list have dealt with in the past. LyX tries to minimize this,
while still giving the user a good idea of what the finished product
will look like... which is awesome.

Current examples of our output, as a frame of reference for my questions:

statute: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0005.pdf
bill: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2009/data/AB-1.pdf


We're trying to add more functionality (links, bookmarks) to our PDFs,
and possibly move to an open source editing environment in the future.
I have a few questions now after my experimenting, though!


1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
make a "cross reference" to a section or subsection, without adding a
label? So the user might say "As defined in s. 10.91" without having
to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?

(Re: 1 and 2, I think we would possibly end up using section types
like Section* in the default article class and allowing the user to
input arbitrary numbers and letters at the beginning, and then having
an external filter to update labels at the correct points with the
correct names. That would then allow the users to quickly link to
arbitrary depths; a statute reference can go 6 levels deep with fairly
arbitrary numbering, like 10.91 (2m) (c) 1. a... Trust me, you
probably don't want to know more about that.)

3. Non-line-breaking sections. You will notice that if a "child"
subsection follows a section, it does not cause a line break. See the
example statute at the top after the TOC: "5.01  Scope.  (1)
Construction..." the section .01 flows directly into its first
subsection (1).  Is it possible to set up a custom document class to
do this? I'm a TeX novice at this point, so I'm just asking for "yes,
that is possible" or "no, don't even try it."

4. Line numbering. Is it possible with LaTeX to do line numbering on a
per-page, per-section-type basis? I can see how to turn it off and
back on, but look at the bill example -- the numbers need to start
over on each successive page. (Again, I have no idea why they do it
this way, but we have to figure out how to support it.)


Thanks for your time if you read this far. I really am amazed by the
program -- even if we can't quite mold it for legislation, I will
definitely be recommending it to my friends who are frustrated writing
academic papers in Word.

It makes me *want* to write a book. Scary.

Dan

Re: UI in french

[alain . didierjean]

Selon Uwe Stöhr :

> alain.didierj...@free.fr schrieb:
>
> > Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to be
> > in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ?
>
> What OS are you using? On Windows, you can change the lyx.bat file when you
> have installed LyX with
> the alternative installer, on Linux, you can change the menu language in the
> preferences menu. In
> both cases you need to restart LyX afterwards.

I use gentoo Linux and Preferences setings has no effect...

--
~adj~

[Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
now.
I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

Thanks a lot.

Etienne Lepercq
-- 
Sincerily

Re: UI in french

[Kornel Benko]

Am Montag 13 April 2009 schrieb alain.didierj...@free.fr:
> Selon Uwe Stöhr :
> > alain.didierj...@free.fr schrieb:
> > > Recently installed LyX 1.62 has UI and doc in english, when it used to
> > > be in french in previous version. How to go back to frenh ?
> >
> > What OS are you using? On Windows, you can change the lyx.bat file when
> > you have installed LyX with
> > the alternative installer, on Linux, you can change the menu language in
> > the preferences menu. In
> > both cases you need to restart LyX afterwards.
>
> I use gentoo Linux and Preferences setings has no effect...

It should. But yuo have to "save" the preferencies too, not only use a new 
language.

Besides, you can set the environment var. LANGUAGE to e.g. "fr" and the start 
lyx.

In csh:
setenv LANGUAGE "fr"

Kornel





signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Paul A. Rubin]

Etienne lepercq wrote:

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
now.
I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

Thanks a lot.

Etienne Lepercq


An alternative to swapping tarballs or zip archives back and forth is to 
set up a version control system on a server somewhere, with Internet 
access, and let users check drafts in and out.  LyX supports CVS and 
Subversion (that I know of) and maybe other versioning systems. 
Assuming that you have access to a server, it's pretty easy to set up a 
versioning service (speaking from personal experience).  This approach 
lets the user download/upload just the changes, and helps prevent 
collisions when two coauthors get the urge to edit the same section 
concurrently.


/Paul

Re: agutex layout?

[Gwen Barnes]

> If it is really different, we need a new layout, yes. Does it replace the
> older one(s)?
>


It does replace the older ones in that it seems to be the only one they are
offering now.  It's supposed to work for all the different AGU journals.
I'm not sure how different the final output is, but (I think) that (a)
without being able to  download the old class/style files I don't think I
can use the old layouts, and (b) when submitting a paper they're probably
going to expect a latex file using the new latex class.

http://www.agu.org/pubs/helpdesk/

-Gwen

Re: LyX for bill drafting

[Richard Heck]

Dan Fitch wrote:

1. The new hyperref stuff in 1.6 is very slick. Is there any way to
make a "cross reference" to a section or subsection, without adding a
label? So the user might say "As defined in s. 10.91" without having
to go to section 10.91 and adding a label?

  
Not at present, though this functionality has been much discussed. I.e., 
a kind of "auto-label" that exists for certain kinds of elements. Come 
to think of it, work just done by Vincent van Ravesteijn might well put 
this within reach. Vincent, the thought is this: Use the context menu in 
the TOC. I'm sure there are lots of issues, though, that I've not yet 
considered.



2. Is there a facility for arbitrary section numbering that integrates
with LyX? I have seen ERT solutions that allow forcing a numbering
change; is there any way to do that through the LyX UI as of v1.6?

  

No, but it might be possible to do this via modules. I'm not sure.


3. Non-line-breaking sections. You will notice that if a "child"
subsection follows a section, it does not cause a line break. See the
example statute at the top after the TOC: "5.01  Scope.  (1)
Construction..." the section .01 flows directly into its first
subsection (1).  Is it possible to set up a custom document class to
do this? I'm a TeX novice at this point, so I'm just asking for "yes,
that is possible" or "no, don't even try it."

  
Yes. And it's not terribly hard. One way is to use the titlesec package 
with some standard class. Another is to use the koma* classes, which 
provide for LOTS of customization. I think that's also true of memoir.



4. Line numbering. Is it possible with LaTeX to do line numbering on a
per-page, per-section-type basis? I can see how to turn it off and
back on, but look at the bill example -- the numbers need to start
over on each successive page. (Again, I have no idea why they do it
this way, but we have to figure out how to support it.)

  

http://www-d0.fnal.gov/Run2Physics/WWW/templates/lineno.html

There are some packages particularly for use with legal documents, I 
believe. You might check into those.


rh

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Paul A. Rubin wrote:

Etienne lepercq wrote:
I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a 
few time

now.
I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As 
LyX is

much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to 
handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have 
to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to 
untar

it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over 
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on

#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were 
released !!


This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

Thanks a lot.

Etienne Lepercq


An alternative to swapping tarballs or zip archives back and forth is 
to set up a version control system on a server somewhere, with 
Internet access, and let users check drafts in and out.  LyX supports 
CVS and Subversion (that I know of) and maybe other versioning 
systems. Assuming that you have access to a server, it's pretty easy 
to set up a versioning service (speaking from personal experience).  
This approach lets the user download/upload just the changes, and 
helps prevent collisions when two coauthors get the urge to edit the 
same section concurrently.


And there are all kinds of free services out there, too, that will allow 
simple versioning systems.


rh

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Etienne lepercq wrote:

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As LyX 
is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

  
I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite 
simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on 
where you can put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to 
arbitrary locations in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so 
it was disagreements over how to manage these sorts of issues that led 
to our not releasing anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of 
the good being sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd 
really rather not have that battle again.


So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have 
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the 
work I did before and make it functional.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Philippe Grosjean]

OpenOffice does that with the Open Document format (.odx). Java does 
that with JARs, Mozilla does that with plugins, ... Everytime it is the 
same: a zipped directory tree. Perhaps, such a format (kind of .zlyx) 
could be purely optional? It shouldn't replace the original format. That 
way, opponents could use their usual .lyx files and place their figures 
where they like. I would be very happy to get such a feature!

Best,

Philippe Grosjean
..<°}))><
 ) ) ) ) )
( ( ( ( (Prof. Philippe Grosjean
 ) ) ) ) )
( ( ( ( (Numerical Ecology of Aquatic Systems
 ) ) ) ) )   Mons-Hainaut University, Belgium
( ( ( ( (
..

Richard Heck wrote:

Etienne lepercq wrote:
I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few 
time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an 
article. As LyX is

much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to 
handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to 
build

an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over 
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on

#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

  
I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite 
simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on 
where you can put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to 
arbitrary locations in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so 
it was disagreements over how to manage these sorts of issues that led 
to our not releasing anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of 
the good being sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd 
really rather not have that battle again.


So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have 
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the 
work I did before and make it functional.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

2009/4/13, Richard Heck :
>
> Etienne lepercq wrote:
>
>> I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few
>> time
>> now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As
>> LyX is
>> much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
>> collaborators to give a try to LyX.
>>
>> There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
>> sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
>> build
>> an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
>> it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
>> archive, etc...
>>
>> This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
>> solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
>> archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
>> figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
>> .lyxZ files ;-)
>>
>> Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
>> on
>> #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
>> once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!
>>
>> This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
>> feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
>> implementation ?
>>
>>
>>
> I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite simple,
> both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on where you can
> put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to arbitrary locations
> in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so it was disagreements
> over how to manage these sorts of issues that led to our not releasing
> anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of the good being
> sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd really rather not have
> that battle again.
>
> So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.
>
> That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have mentioned
> here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the work I did
> before and make it functional.
>
> Richard
>
>
I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is willing to
work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to tar/untar ...
will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary files
(as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be considered as
temporary files from the user's point of view) but currently LyX _does_ use
temporary files when working with an unsaved document !

I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the
quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, when
compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG applications
like OOo or MS-Word).

Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML to
better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same
disagreements still exist ?

Etienne Lepercq
-- 
Sincerily

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

2009/4/13, Richard Heck :
>
> Etienne lepercq wrote:
>
>> I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a few
>> time
>> now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an article. As
>> LyX is
>> much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
>> collaborators to give a try to LyX.
>>
>> There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to handle,
>> sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have to
>> build
>> an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to untar
>> it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
>> archive, etc...
>>
>> This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
>> solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
>> archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
>> figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
>> .lyxZ files ;-)
>>
>> Does such feature exist already ? I searched over FAQ/Documentation/Asked
>> on
>> #LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were made
>> once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were released !!
>>
>> This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have such
>> feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
>> implementation ?
>>
>>
>>
> I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite simple,
> both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on where you can
> put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to arbitrary locations
> in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And so it was disagreements
> over how to manage these sorts of issues that led to our not releasing
> anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of the good being
> sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd really rather not have
> that battle again.
>
> So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.
>
> That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have mentioned
> here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect the work I did
> before and make it functional.
>
> Richard
>
>
I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is willing to
work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to tar/untar ...
will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary files
(as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be considered as
temporary files from the user's point of view) but currently LyX _does_ use
temporary files when working with an unsaved document !

I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the
quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, when
compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG applications
like OOo or MS-Word).

Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML to
better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same
disagreements still exist ?

Etienne Lepercq
-- 
Sincerily

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Philippe Grosjean wrote:
OpenOffice does that with the Open Document format (.odx). Java does 
that with JARs, Mozilla does that with plugins, ... Everytime it is 
the same: a zipped directory tree. Perhaps, such a format (kind of 
.zlyx) could be purely optional? It shouldn't replace the original 
format. That way, opponents could use their usual .lyx files and place 
their figures where they like. I would be very happy to get such a 
feature!



No, certainly it wouldn't replace anything.

rh


Richard Heck wrote:

Etienne lepercq wrote:
I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for quiet a 
few time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an 
article. As LyX is

much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not easy to 
handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one have 
to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators have to 
untar

it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive, send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open, say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over 
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations were 
made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were 
released !!


This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to have 
such

feature now, or is there a way to at least release one relatively-good
implementation ?

  
I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it quite 
simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes restrictions on 
where you can put files, since you can't (and don't want to) untar to 
arbitrary locations in the filesystem. This bothered some people. And 
so it was disagreements over how to manage these sorts of issues that 
led to our not releasing anything. To my mind, this was a perfect 
example of the good being sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, 
well, I'd really rather not have that battle again.


So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have 
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect 
the work I did before and make it functional.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Richard Heck]

Etienne lepercq wrote:



2009/4/13, Richard Heck >:


Etienne lepercq wrote:

I am new to LyX, but not as new to LaTeX : I used Kile for
quiet a few time
now. I would like to use LyX to work with several people on an
article. As LyX is
much more user-friendly than Kile, a pure LaTeX editor, I
convinced my
collaborators to give a try to LyX.

There is te least one thing in LyX (and LaTeX) that is not
easy to handle,
sharing a whole document to make it modifiable by others : one
have to build
an archive with all figures and latex source, collaborators
have to untar
it, open LyX, read/modify/etc... and then... rebuild archive,
send the
archive, etc...

This is counter-productive, not easy to use, it is a pain. One
simple
solution I see for this is to give the ability to LyX to open,
say .tar
archives, with a specific tree inside (.yx sources, then
figures/allFigures.Whatever or something). Such archive could
be called
.lyxZ files ;-)

Does such feature exist already ? I searched over
FAQ/Documentation/Asked on
#LyX but did not find anything more than : two implementations
were made
once, but as nobody could say which was the best... none were
released !!

This is not _that_ complex to implement, but is there a way to
have such
feature now, or is there a way to at least release one
relatively-good
implementation ?

 


I agree with you that there is a way to do this that makes it
quite simple, both to implement and to use. But it imposes
restrictions on where you can put files, since you can't (and
don't want to) untar to arbitrary locations in the filesystem.
This bothered some people. And so it was disagreements over how to
manage these sorts of issues that led to our not releasing
anything. To my mind, this was a perfect example of the good being
sacrificed for the non-existent best, but, well, I'd really rather
not have that battle again.

So, at present, the tar-untar routine is about all we can do.

That said, if enough USERs thought the kind of facility you have
mentioned here was worth implementing, I'd be willing to resurrect
the work I did before and make it functional.

Richard


I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is 
willing to work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to 
tar/untar ... will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary 
files (as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be 
considered as temporary files from the user's point of view) but 
currently LyX _does_ use temporary files when working with an unsaved 
document !


That's precisely what my old implementation did: untar to the temporary 
directory.


I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the 
quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, 
when compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG 
applications like OOo or MS-Word).


Yes, this model is similar to OOo, etc. Images and the like get 
"embedded" within the document and lose touch with where they came from. 
But it's a familiar model.


Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML 
to better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same 
disagreements still exist ?



At least in some quarters, these worries still exist.

On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a while 
ago. I don't know how far he got.


Richard

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Etienne lepercq]

>
>
>>
>> I _really_ think this is a must have: I know someone else that is willing
>> to work with LyX and propose it to her teacher, but having to tar/untar ...
>> will make it _very_ difficult to accept.
>> Of course, you are right about the problem of where to untar temporary
>> files (as with this approach, I think un-tared files should be considered as
>> temporary files from the user's point of view) but currently LyX _does_ use
>> temporary files when working with an unsaved document !
>>
>>  That's precisely what my old implementation did: untar to the temporary
> directory.
>
>  I think that preserving the same temporary path is not decreasing the
>> quality of LyX, and adds a good feature (for some people, a must have, when
>> compared to the workflow some have when working with WYSIWYG applications
>> like OOo or MS-Word).
>>
>>  Yes, this model is similar to OOo, etc. Images and the like get
> "embedded" within the document and lose touch with where they came from.
> But it's a familiar model.


Yes, that's a major drawback ! But the .zlyx could be used as an "export"
file format to share with others, then one could just merge back the .lyx
embedded into the .zlyx : I see this as a way one can use this feature, but
some may want to use it otherwise (as everyone does when using OOo for
example, reinsert the figure)


Does such feature-request be proposed (once again ;-) ) in the dev ML to
>> better know if your previous work may be merged now, or if the same
>> disagreements still exist ?
>>
>>  At least in some quarters, these worries still exist.
>
> On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a while ago.
> I don't know how far he got.
>
> Richard
>
>
I think this feature should be at least re-discussed.
And thank you for your answers !
Etienne


-- 
Sincerily

Re: [Figure embedding] An easy way to share lyx documents

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

On the other hand, I think Vincent was working on this problem a while 
ago. I don't know how far he got.


Actually, I have an implementation of something that allows you to 
export a zipped archive with all figures, bibtex files, child documents, 
etc.etc.



Richard



Vincent