Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
Either one would work for the 128byte sectors of cp/m. The only issue is that the FDC commands are different. I have code for read only on the TPDD but I also have read/write code for TPDD2. I'll dig it up for you. Kurt On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > Well thanks Kurt. I'll do some reading. > What is on my mind is to make a real TPDD usable as B: in CP/M. Lp > > But a tpdd2 could also work. > > > > On Friday, January 8, 2021, Kurt McCullum wrote: >> __ >> TPDD1 or 2? I ask because I've done quite a bit of work with a TPDD2. The >> TPDD Client software that I wrote will drive a TPDD2 in both modes. It has >> the ability to read/write all the sectors on a disk to make a copy. Not sure >> if that helps you or not but thought I would mention it. >> >> http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?=0==Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client >> >> Kurt >> >> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: >>> I did see that and tried it. no luck so far but I will keep plugging away. >>> I seem to recall this worked for me in the past. >>> >>> What I am trying to do is drive a real TPDD in FDC mode, and use VT to >>> observe the transactions. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:23 PM Ken Pettit wrote: Hardware flow control? I think VT has a checkbox to ignore CTS / RTS. Did you try that? Ken On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > Hey Folks, > I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working on > virtualT. > > * Windows 10 > * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) > * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port > * Model T connected to COM1. > > I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow in > the return direction. > > I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. > > On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm > instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. > > I may try Linux next. > > thx > Steve >>
Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
I don't know if either the drive or ts-dos are checking for overall connected/ready at all times including while (all during) processing a packet, but they aren't used for ordinary flow control. But they are used for device-connected-and-ready, which on the TS-DOS side prevents TS-DOS from hanging, and on the TPDD side is used to detect bootstrap conditions. It depends what you mean by what you "should do". If you are ok with just getting the basic traffic working to send a file, then you can just fake everything. You lose nothing in the way of overrun protection, because there already isn't any anyway. That is taken care of by brute force, by the fixed max packet size and the send/ack nature of the protocol. But if you want full most-correct operation, where TS-DOS can gracefully detect the drive is not ready, and the drive can detect that BASIC actually has the port open and listening and ready to receive data, and will only send the bootstrap when it should and not when you didn't intend, connect dsr/dtr between devices. On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 11:03 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > They aren't used dynamically though are they? The protocol itself takes > care of flow. > > I'm unable to have a real m100 talk via serial with VT. That seems odd. > Must be a hardware pin issue. > > Interestingly the same hardware works if VT is swapped for teraterm. > > So I guess that virtualT must be flowing off while teraterm is flowing > on > > > > > On Friday, January 8, 2021, Brian White wrote: > >> Ideally dsr/dtr should actually be connected since they are actually >> used, by both TS-DOS and the drive. >> >> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 8:47 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: >> >>> at the end of the day, for TPDD access, seems that all hardware flow >>> control should be disabled in all directions. >>> >>> so at each end of a cable >>> RTS=CTS >>> DTR=DSR >>> >>> is this the right way to think of it? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:38 PM Stephen Adolph >>> wrote: >>> I did see that and tried it. no luck so far but I will keep plugging away. I seem to recall this worked for me in the past. What I am trying to do is drive a real TPDD in FDC mode, and use VT to observe the transactions. On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:23 PM Ken Pettit wrote: > Hardware flow control? I think VT has a checkbox to ignore CTS / > RTS. > Did you try that? > > Ken > > On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Hey Folks, > > I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working > on > > virtualT. > > > > * Windows 10 > > * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) > > * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port > > * Model T connected to COM1. > > > > I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow > in > > the return direction. > > > > I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. > > > > On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm > > instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. > > > > I may try Linux next. > > > > thx > > Steve > >
Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
Well thanks Kurt. I'll do some reading. What is on my mind is to make a real TPDD usable as B: in CP/M. Lp But a tpdd2 could also work. On Friday, January 8, 2021, Kurt McCullum wrote: > TPDD1 or 2? I ask because I've done quite a bit of work with a TPDD2. The > TPDD Client software that I wrote will drive a TPDD2 in both modes. It has > the ability to read/write all the sectors on a disk to make a copy. Not > sure if that helps you or not but thought I would mention it. > > http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?= > 0==Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client > > Kurt > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > I did see that and tried it. no luck so far but I will keep plugging > away. I seem to recall this worked for me in the past. > > What I am trying to do is drive a real TPDD in FDC mode, and use VT to > observe the transactions. > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:23 PM Ken Pettit wrote: > > Hardware flow control? I think VT has a checkbox to ignore CTS / RTS. > Did you try that? > > Ken > > On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Hey Folks, > > I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working on > > virtualT. > > > > * Windows 10 > > * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) > > * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port > > * Model T connected to COM1. > > > > I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow in > > the return direction. > > > > I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. > > > > On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm > > instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. > > > > I may try Linux next. > > > > thx > > Steve > > >
Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
TPDD1 or 2? I ask because I've done quite a bit of work with a TPDD2. The TPDD Client software that I wrote will drive a TPDD2 in both modes. It has the ability to read/write all the sectors on a disk to make a copy. Not sure if that helps you or not but thought I would mention it. http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?=0==Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client Kurt On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > I did see that and tried it. no luck so far but I will keep plugging away. I > seem to recall this worked for me in the past. > > What I am trying to do is drive a real TPDD in FDC mode, and use VT to > observe the transactions. > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:23 PM Ken Pettit wrote: >> Hardware flow control? I think VT has a checkbox to ignore CTS / RTS. >> Did you try that? >> >> Ken >> >> On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: >> > Hey Folks, >> > I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working on >> > virtualT. >> > >> > * Windows 10 >> > * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) >> > * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port >> > * Model T connected to COM1. >> > >> > I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow in >> > the return direction. >> > >> > I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. >> > >> > On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm >> > instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. >> > >> > I may try Linux next. >> > >> > thx >> > Steve >>
Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
They aren't used dynamically though are they? The protocol itself takes care of flow. I'm unable to have a real m100 talk via serial with VT. That seems odd. Must be a hardware pin issue. Interestingly the same hardware works if VT is swapped for teraterm. So I guess that virtualT must be flowing off while teraterm is flowing on On Friday, January 8, 2021, Brian White wrote: > Ideally dsr/dtr should actually be connected since they are actually used, > by both TS-DOS and the drive. > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 8:47 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > >> at the end of the day, for TPDD access, seems that all hardware flow >> control should be disabled in all directions. >> >> so at each end of a cable >> RTS=CTS >> DTR=DSR >> >> is this the right way to think of it? >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:38 PM Stephen Adolph >> wrote: >> >>> I did see that and tried it. no luck so far but I will keep plugging >>> away. I seem to recall this worked for me in the past. >>> >>> What I am trying to do is drive a real TPDD in FDC mode, and use VT to >>> observe the transactions. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:23 PM Ken Pettit wrote: >>> Hardware flow control? I think VT has a checkbox to ignore CTS / RTS. Did you try that? Ken On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > Hey Folks, > I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working on > virtualT. > > * Windows 10 > * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) > * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port > * Model T connected to COM1. > > I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow in > the return direction. > > I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. > > On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm > instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. > > I may try Linux next. > > thx > Steve
Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
Ideally dsr/dtr should actually be connected since they are actually used, by both TS-DOS and the drive. On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 8:47 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > at the end of the day, for TPDD access, seems that all hardware flow > control should be disabled in all directions. > > so at each end of a cable > RTS=CTS > DTR=DSR > > is this the right way to think of it? > > > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:38 PM Stephen Adolph > wrote: > >> I did see that and tried it. no luck so far but I will keep plugging >> away. I seem to recall this worked for me in the past. >> >> What I am trying to do is drive a real TPDD in FDC mode, and use VT to >> observe the transactions. >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:23 PM Ken Pettit wrote: >> >>> Hardware flow control? I think VT has a checkbox to ignore CTS / RTS. >>> Did you try that? >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: >>> > Hey Folks, >>> > I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working on >>> > virtualT. >>> > >>> > * Windows 10 >>> > * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) >>> > * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port >>> > * Model T connected to COM1. >>> > >>> > I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow in >>> > the return direction. >>> > >>> > I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. >>> > >>> > On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm >>> > instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. >>> > >>> > I may try Linux next. >>> > >>> > thx >>> > Steve >>> >>>
Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
One question would be what that means, to disable hardware flow control. Does that mean to force the output signal from the VM to be asserted at the wire? Or to make the hosted software in the VM see the line as asserted even if it's not? Both? And in my experience the most important flow control lines on the model t (unless using hterm or tback) is DTR/DSR though cts and rts can be relevant. I'm not sure how you're testing but I'd start with just TELCOM and realterm and a full null cable so you can get a feel for the flow control signals and what VT features are doing to help you. -- John. > >>>
Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
at the end of the day, for TPDD access, seems that all hardware flow control should be disabled in all directions. so at each end of a cable RTS=CTS DTR=DSR is this the right way to think of it? On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:38 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > I did see that and tried it. no luck so far but I will keep plugging > away. I seem to recall this worked for me in the past. > > What I am trying to do is drive a real TPDD in FDC mode, and use VT to > observe the transactions. > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:23 PM Ken Pettit wrote: > >> Hardware flow control? I think VT has a checkbox to ignore CTS / RTS. >> Did you try that? >> >> Ken >> >> On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: >> > Hey Folks, >> > I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working on >> > virtualT. >> > >> > * Windows 10 >> > * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) >> > * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port >> > * Model T connected to COM1. >> > >> > I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow in >> > the return direction. >> > >> > I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. >> > >> > On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm >> > instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. >> > >> > I may try Linux next. >> > >> > thx >> > Steve >> >>
Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
I did see that and tried it. no luck so far but I will keep plugging away. I seem to recall this worked for me in the past. What I am trying to do is drive a real TPDD in FDC mode, and use VT to observe the transactions. On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:23 PM Ken Pettit wrote: > Hardware flow control? I think VT has a checkbox to ignore CTS / RTS. > Did you try that? > > Ken > > On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Hey Folks, > > I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working on > > virtualT. > > > > * Windows 10 > > * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) > > * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port > > * Model T connected to COM1. > > > > I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow in > > the return direction. > > > > I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. > > > > On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm > > instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. > > > > I may try Linux next. > > > > thx > > Steve > >
Re: [M100] Virtual T and serial port
Hardware flow control? I think VT has a checkbox to ignore CTS / RTS. Did you try that? Ken On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: Hey Folks, I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working on virtualT. * Windows 10 * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port * Model T connected to COM1. I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow in the return direction. I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. I may try Linux next. thx Steve
[M100] Virtual T and serial port
Hey Folks, I'm having some trouble getting bi-directional serial port working on virtualT. * Windows 10 * VT 1.7 (and also tried 1.6) * using a real serial port COM 1, or also COM2 FTDI USB serial port * Model T connected to COM1. I can send out from VirtualT no problem, but nothing seems to flow in the return direction. I thought this worked.. struggling to understand why it is jammed up. On the same physical setup, if I kill VirtualT and start TeraTerm instead, it works bi-directionally no problem. I may try Linux next. thx Steve
Re: [M100] REX# Version 2 software update.
Hi Steve, I am looking forward to the updates on the REXCPM. The current version has performed flawlessly for me since your last update. Thanks for your fine work! DG Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Stephen Adolph Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 8:49 PM To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] REX# Version 2 software update. Oh forgot one thing. I have updated the option rom .ZIP files posted there, to include Kurt's bug-fix versions of TS-DOS for M100, T200 and NEC. cheers, and thanks again Kurt. Steve
