Re: Installing 5.8.0
It is fixed in the LWP installer.
On Thursday, June 19, 2003, at 05:42 PM, Robin wrote:
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 07:23 am, Ken Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 03:54 PM, Robin wrote:
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 11:34 pm, David R. Morrison wrote:
Has the problem with CPAN overwriting /usr/bin/head with
/usr/bin/HEAD
been solved?
yes I believe so, thought this is one of the well documented
problems I was referring to, the other being the LC_ALL environment
variable.
I don't think it has been solved. ExtUtils::MakeMaker still defaults
to using $Config{installscript} as the install location, and:
% /usr/bin/perl5.6.0 -V:installscript
installscript='/usr/bin';
I see in the Changes log a comment that this has been fixed in LWP,
but I don't see it in the code for libwww-perl-5.69.
I said I thought it was fixed - to be honest I used the workaround of
making a copy of HEAD and linking it into /usr/bin a goodly while ago
- and have suffered no ill effects
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 07:36 AM, Robert Dalgleish wrote: It is fixed in the LWP installer. Robert, can you be more specific? I've looked through the source for the LWP Makefile.PL (which I guess is what you mean by the LWP installer) and I just don't see anything to handle it. It simply passes bin/HEAD to the EXE_FILES parameter for ExtUtils::MakeMaker. -Ken
LWP HEAD still overwrites head (was Re: Installing 5.8.0)
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 12:02 PM, Ken Williams wrote:
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 07:36 AM, Robert Dalgleish wrote:
It is fixed in the LWP installer.
Robert, can you be more specific? I've looked through the source for
the LWP Makefile.PL (which I guess is what you mean by the LWP
installer) and I just don't see anything to handle it. It simply
passes bin/HEAD to the EXE_FILES parameter for ExtUtils::MakeMaker.
I think I see now what was *intended* to be the fix, but it doesn't fix
the problem. The Makefile.PL has this:
for my $alias (@request_aliases) {
my $default = y;
# check that we don't overwrite something unrelated with
# the current defaults.
if (open(PROG, $Config{sitebin}/$alias)) {
$default = n;
while (PROG) {
if (/lwp-request/) {
$default = y;
last;
}
}
close(PROG);
}
if (prompt(Do you want to install the $alias alias?,
$default) =~ /^y/) {
push(@tmp, $alias);
}
}
That's really a poor solution, and it's also broken. It's poor because
it just changes the default from 'y' to 'n' for installing HEAD, but
it'll still clobber it if you say 'y'.
It's broken because it'll look for conflicts in $Config{sitebin}
(/usr/local/bin) but install the script to $Config{installscript}
(/usr/bin) so it'll never detect the conflict.
I'm cc-ing this message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so they can take action.
-Ken
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 03:54 PM, Robin wrote:
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 11:34 pm, David R. Morrison wrote:
Has the problem with CPAN overwriting /usr/bin/head with /usr/bin/HEAD
been solved?
yes I believe so, thought this is one of the well documented problems
I was referring to, the other being the LC_ALL environment variable.
I don't think it has been solved. ExtUtils::MakeMaker still defaults
to using $Config{installscript} as the install location, and:
% /usr/bin/perl5.6.0 -V:installscript
installscript='/usr/bin';
I see in the Changes log a comment that this has been fixed in LWP, but
I don't see it in the code for libwww-perl-5.69. It still has
INSTALLSCRIPT set to /usr/bin when I generate a Makefile. But I
haven't actually tried a 'make install' in a while, as I don't feel
like cleaning up the mess if/when it clobbers my /usr/bin/*.
To work around the problem, when installing you should be able to do:
% make install INST_SCRIPT=/usr/local/bin
FWIW, this MakeMaker problem is fixed in [the development branch of]
Module::Build.
-Ken
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 07:23 am, Ken Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 03:54 PM, Robin wrote:
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 11:34 pm, David R. Morrison wrote:
Has the problem with CPAN overwriting /usr/bin/head with
/usr/bin/HEAD
been solved?
yes I believe so, thought this is one of the well documented problems
I was referring to, the other being the LC_ALL environment variable.
I don't think it has been solved. ExtUtils::MakeMaker still defaults
to using $Config{installscript} as the install location, and:
% /usr/bin/perl5.6.0 -V:installscript
installscript='/usr/bin';
I see in the Changes log a comment that this has been fixed in LWP,
but I don't see it in the code for libwww-perl-5.69.
I said I thought it was fixed - to be honest I used the workaround of
making a copy of HEAD and linking it into /usr/bin a goodly while ago -
and have suffered no ill effects
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 10:23 pm, Lorin Rivers wrote: What will happen if I use the darwinports perl? Does it automagically replace the existing perl in terms of the command line and what not? Or would I have to use /opt/bin/perl for 5.8.0 (and just perl for 5.6)? The thing you need to be careful of is installing into /System/Library/Perl - that would possibly break your system. I tend to champion CPAN because it was designed by perlers for perl, rather than a generic packaging system which has hundreds of distributions and their quirks to track, it's also part of the standard perl distribution, which means you have it there on your computer now. The whole install process is pretty straightforward as most of the kinks have been ironed out and there are documented problems and solutions for installing safely on OSX. The other reason I recommend this is you know what is on your system because you install it - in the past I used fink, which is actually a series of perl modules and started getting problems after I upgraded perl coming from the modules installed by fink unbeknowst to me. I'm asking all these questions because I have hosed my perl more than once out of ignorance (most people find installing and configuring perl a trivial task, Installing perl (to risk sounding like a troll from CLPM) is not for the casual user and as you have already found out it can impare your systems functionality if not done correctly. From your post I'm not too sure that you actually need to upgrade unless the scripts you want to use are trying to use modules which are only available for perl 5.8, or sytaxt which is special to perl 5.8. For the most part there is backwards compatibility between versions 5.x. HTH Robin
Re: Installing 5.8.0
Robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] upgrades, it belongs to you. Install perl via CPAN as shown also won't overwrite the perl used by the OSX system itself (perl5.6, kept in Has the problem with CPAN overwriting /usr/bin/head with /usr/bin/HEAD been solved? [snip] know what is on your system because you install it - in the past I used fink, which is actually a series of perl modules and started getting problems after I upgraded perl coming from the modules installed by fink unbeknowst to me. Just FYI, Fink finally plays well with perl 5.8.0 installations. If you upgrade to the latest CVS version, all XS-modules are installed in properly-versioned subdirectories of the perl5 directory, and Fink should run just fine with any version of perl from 5.6.0 through 5.8.x. -- Dave
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:25:28PM +0900, Robin wrote: On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 07:13 pm, Michael Maibaum wrote: On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 04:24:23PM +0900, Robin wrote: On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 12:24 pm, Sherm Pendley wrote: On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 10:54 PM, Lorin Rivers wrote: What is the best, simplest, and easiest approach to having a rock solid, reasonably standard perl setup? If you really and truly need 5.8.0 - and there are some good reasons you might, such as improved Unicode support - your best bet would be to get it from darwinports. Dunno I used CPAN.pm and provided you follow the instructons at http://developer.apple.com/internet/macosx/perl.html which with the exception of setting the LC_ALL environment variable, is pretty concise, it went pretty smoothly. I would strongly recommend against this approach, or if you use it, expect problems if/when you upgrade to Mac OS X 10.3. Are you objecting to CPAN or darwinports? Neither, the directions at http://developer.apple.com/internet/macosx/perl.html which overwrite the Apple supplied perl. If its the CPAN method, you are being a tad dramatic. Provided you have installed the dev tools of course (no compiler otherwise), if you follow the instructions at appledev perl5.8 the distro will be installed by CPAN in/Users/YOU/usr/local/ and like anyother app you have installed in your user file, it won't be touched by system upgrades, it belongs to you. Install perl via CPAN as shown also won't overwrite the perl used by the OSX system itself (perl5.6, kept in /Sysytem/LIbrary/Perl). Overwriting this would cause problems for the parts of the system even before a system upgrade. Agreed, I was objecting to the guidlines on the Apple website, not installing a local perl as a user. The effect of darwinports I don't know. DarwinPorts puts perl in /opt/local so it should be pretty safe. One or two people emailled asking about a static mod_perl apache build against perl 5.8, so I've uploaded one at http://darwinports.gene-hacker.net/pkgs/apache-mod_perl-static-1.3.27.dmg On the dmg are 2 package installers perl5.8 (destination /opt/local/) apache-1.3.27 with a statically linked mod_perl, (destination /opt/local/apache-1.3.27) Feedback welcome on these packages. Michael -- Dr Michael A. Maibaum internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://mike.maibaum.org/ voice:[h] 07958 604025 | [w] (020) 7631 6725 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 11:34 pm, David R. Morrison wrote: Robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: upgrades, it belongs to you. Install perl via CPAN as shown also won't overwrite the perl used by the OSX system itself (perl5.6, kept in Has the problem with CPAN overwriting /usr/bin/head with /usr/bin/HEAD been solved? yes I believe so, thought this is one of the well documented problems I was referring to, the other being the LC_ALL environment variable. cheers Robin
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 12:24 pm, Sherm Pendley wrote: On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 10:54 PM, Lorin Rivers wrote: What is the best, simplest, and easiest approach to having a rock solid, reasonably standard perl setup? If you really and truly need 5.8.0 - and there are some good reasons you might, such as improved Unicode support - your best bet would be to get it from darwinports. Dunno I used CPAN.pm and provided you follow the instructons at http://developer.apple.com/internet/macosx/perl.html which with the exception of setting the LC_ALL environment variable, is pretty concise, it went pretty smoothly. HTH
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 04:24:23PM +0900, Robin wrote: On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 12:24 pm, Sherm Pendley wrote: On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 10:54 PM, Lorin Rivers wrote: What is the best, simplest, and easiest approach to having a rock solid, reasonably standard perl setup? If you really and truly need 5.8.0 - and there are some good reasons you might, such as improved Unicode support - your best bet would be to get it from darwinports. Dunno I used CPAN.pm and provided you follow the instructons at http://developer.apple.com/internet/macosx/perl.html which with the exception of setting the LC_ALL environment variable, is pretty concise, it went pretty smoothly. I would strongly recommend against this approach, or if you use it, expect problems if/when you upgrade to Mac OS X 10.3. The darwinports perl builds fine to the best of my knowledge, and if it doesn't I want to know as I maintain the package. (On that note, if anyone has any suggestions for package variants that would be useful let me know, I'm going to add a variant for a debugging perl, threads, anything else?) -- Dr Michael A. Maibaum internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://mike.maibaum.org/ voice:[h] 07958 604025 | [w] (020) 7631 6725 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 05:13 AM, Michael Maibaum wrote: I would strongly recommend against this approach, or if you use it, expect problems if/when you upgrade to Mac OS X 10.3. The darwinports perl builds fine to the best of my knowledge, and if it doesn't I want to know as I maintain the package. (On that note, if anyone has any suggestions for package variants that would be useful let me know, I'm going to add a variant for a debugging perl, threads, anything else?) What will happen if I use the darwinports perl? Does it automagically replace the existing perl in terms of the command line and what not? Or would I have to use /opt/bin/perl for 5.8.0 (and just perl for 5.6)? I'm asking all these questions because I have hosed my perl more than once out of ignorance (most people find installing and configuring perl a trivial task, I'm sure) and want it mostly for using prebuilt scripts and tools, not for writing my own perl (shudder). Thanks! -- Lorin Rivers Marketing Professional mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://homepage.mac.com/lrivers 512.478.8114
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 08:23:55AM -0500, Lorin Rivers wrote: On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 05:13 AM, Michael Maibaum wrote: I would strongly recommend against this approach, or if you use it, expect problems if/when you upgrade to Mac OS X 10.3. The darwinports perl builds fine to the best of my knowledge, and if it doesn't I want to know as I maintain the package. (On that note, if anyone has any suggestions for package variants that would be useful let me know, I'm going to add a variant for a debugging perl, threads, anything else?) What will happen if I use the darwinports perl? Does it automagically replace the existing perl in terms of the command line and what not? Or would I have to use /opt/bin/perl for 5.8.0 (and just perl for 5.6)? DarwinPorts perl will not touch /usr/bin/perl (ie Mac OS X's standard perl). What I do is replace /usr/bin/perl with a symlink to the 5.8 version of perl, that allows things to work with my 'new' perl, but means it is easy to go back to Apple's 'system' perl by simply deleting that symlink and replacing it with one pointing at /usr/bin/perl5.6.0 I'm asking all these questions because I have hosed my perl more than once out of ignorance (most people find installing and configuring perl a trivial task, I'm sure) and want it mostly for using prebuilt scripts and tools, not for writing my own perl (shudder). If you are using prebuilt scripts that need a newer perl, I'd probably use the symlink approach described above, then you can easily back out of the newer pero if you need to, but most scripts etc should, 'just work'. HTH Michael -- Dr Michael A. Maibaum internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://mike.maibaum.org/ voice:[h] 07958 604025 | [w] (020) 7631 6725 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Installing 5.8.0
On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 10:54 PM, Lorin Rivers wrote: What is the best, simplest, and easiest approach to having a rock solid, reasonably standard perl setup? You should seriously consider simply using the pre-installed setup unless you have a specific reason not to. The out-of-the-box setup for every shipping version of OS X so far is about as standard as it gets, and it's pre-installed, so if 5.6.0 is sufficient for your needs, then you already have a solid, standard setup for literally no effort at all. If you really and truly need 5.8.0 - and there are some good reasons you might, such as improved Unicode support - your best bet would be to get it from darwinports. Since you're already using that, it should be as simple as just installing another package. sherm-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
