RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

The name of the fish & chip place is "Salty's" I don't think they are out
east, though. I'm sure the east has their own sea food chain however. It
probably varies too as to where you live.  Where I used to live, battered
calamari or squid was hard to come by.  Here, 50 Kms north of that city,
most Chinese food establishments have spicy squid on the menu or
smorgasbord. Some even have muscles in garlic butter sauce as part of the
smorgasbord.  Too bad they don't have Escargot. I know, David you are being
too picky. One place even has shrimp and prawns on the menu of their
smorgasbord.  It's crazy.  For a seafood platter, you pay $14.95.  For the
smorgasbord where you can get unlimited prawns, shrimp fish and spicy squid,
you pay $15.95.  Take a guess as to what I got? Mind you, the fish was not
as good as it was at Salty's.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 6:46 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

Well speaking only for myself,  I can tell you that sarcasm even with facial
expressions has no universal dictionary.
It is one thing I wonder about using face recognition  on IPhone as some
sort of security.
There are simply too many expressions, and interpretation of those
expressions.  It is one reason why audio description helps those from
different  cultures, regardless of eye chart score.
Speaking only for myself, I feel even suggesting that sight and blindness
are  some two sided uniformed concept misleads everyone, simply does not
work  that simply.
Now back to dinner.  What is the name of the fish & chips heaven chain?
I hope it is national!  I really love all things seafood.
Seriously, words are neutral in my view, we bring to them our own 
definitions largely.   meaning in my view that how we respond, the power 
to be insulted, in theory lies entirely with ourselves.
  Kare



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

> Well, you'd be surprised or maybe not, how many people in this world 
> take offense at my comments especially in emails.  Even in person.  
> With the sighted, I think, cannot they see my facial expression? For 
> the record, the Lobster out east supposedly tastes better than the one 
> in the west here. The Oysters in Fanny bay are delicious, though. As 
> is the Salmon.  Now, I better get off this subject because, I too am 
> getting hungry.  One of the chains here has all the fish and chips you 
> can eat every Tuesday.  The fish is Cod and each piece is half the size of
a dinner plate.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
> Sent: September 23, 2017 12:49 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid
>
> Offense is a choice, not an absolute...I thought your comment  was funny.
> As for directory assistance on your IPhone,  Bell will credit past 
> charges and  you can have that for free.
> ..and it was likely Rogers.  They were my first land line provider, 
> and misspelled  my name badly.
> To this day, even though Bell is my provider now, the misspelling 
> remains giving  me a terrific way out with telemarketers.
> Tim has me hungry for seafood!
> Karen
>
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
>
>> I use Bell as my carrier for the Iphone and Shaw as my land line
provider.
>> Shaw directory assistance is free.  Sadly, you get what you pay for.
>> The worst example was, Best buy has been here for a couple of years, 
>> yet Shaw said there was no listing for it. Even after notifying them 
>> of their existance, it still took them months to update their data 
>> base.  Bell, the landline service has not made it to Vancouver Island 
>> yet.  However, I think they charged me for D A.  Either that or it 
>> was Rogers.  Regardless I was charged $3 per directory assistance.  I 
>> just wanted to add numbers and addresses to my contact list.  Then I 
>> got all these charges on my bill and was told D A was not free. Glad 
>> you took my comment in the spirit it was meant.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>> Sent: September 23, 2017 11:55 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid
>>
>> I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory 
>> assistance either for my  Land Line, or my cell.
>> I suppose I will discover   how the iPhone works if I either  manage
>> enough   brain treatment that I can process the voices without acute
>> dizziness, Or  a voice I can use of a hardware speech kind  carries 
>> over to Apple products.
>> Laughing at the video games  comment.
>> granted i learned to play blackjack in DOS, but I use my computer as 
>> a professional tool.
>> Karen
>>
>>

Re: Delete And Enter.

[David Chittenden]

Backspace is dot 7 and spacebar. Enter is dot 8 and spacebar. Dot 7, by itself, 
is a particular uncommon ASCII character, as is dot 8 by itself.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 Sep 2017, at 14:24, Georges Zaynoun  wrote:
> 
> It is rumoured that one does not need to press dots 7 and 8 on a Braille 
> display to accomplish these functions without engaging the space bar, I did 
> not manage to do it using APH Refreshabraille18 and SmartBeetle, what am I 
> missing to do?
> 
> -- 
> Georges Zeinoun
> Timmerv. 6A ITR LGH1102, 54163 SKÖVDESWEDEN
> Tel: +46 (500) 48 29 29 +46 (500) 43 55 11
> 
> -- 
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Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David Chittenden]

Face recognition and hacial expression recognition are two very different 
concepts. Save for identical twins, each person's face print is different. In 
actuality, the same is true for each person's fingerprints. However, the way 
the technology captures fingerprint data, and faceprint data for that matter, 
is not as unique. The fingerprint, faceprint, and even irisprint data is 
converted into a complex numerical code algarithm.

Facial expressions are most often also calculated using numerical face 
algarithms for coding positions of various parts of the face.

There is both universality and locality in facial expressions. This is observed 
in the differences between voluntary and involuntary facial expressions. The 
voluntary facial expressions are quite often culturally dependent. The 
involuntary expressions, on the other hand are universal. However, sighted 
people learn tu mute / minimize there involuntary facial expressions by the 
time they are 9 to 11 years old. In many cultures, it is the more negative 
emotional expressions which are most often culturally muted.

This topic is very strongly researched, and blindness and facial expressions 
was my masters thesis topic.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 Sep 2017, at 11:46, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Well speaking only for myself,  I can tell you that sarcasm even with facial 
> expressions has no universal dictionary.
> It is one thing I wonder about using face recognition  on IPhone as some sort 
> of security.
> There are simply too many expressions, and interpretation of those 
> expressions.  It is one reason why audio description helps those from 
> different  cultures, regardless of eye chart score.
> Speaking only for myself, I feel even suggesting that sight and blindness are 
>  some two sided uniformed concept misleads everyone, simply does not work  
> that simply.
> Now back to dinner.  What is the name of the fish & chips heaven chain?
> I hope it is national!  I really love all things seafood.
> Seriously, words are neutral in my view, we bring to them our own definitions 
> largely.   meaning in my view that how we respond, the power to be insulted, 
> in theory lies entirely with ourselves.
> Kare
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
>> 
>> Well, you'd be surprised or maybe not, how many people in this world take
>> offense at my comments especially in emails.  Even in person.  With the
>> sighted, I think, cannot they see my facial expression? For the record, the
>> Lobster out east supposedly tastes better than the one in the west here. The
>> Oysters in Fanny bay are delicious, though. As is the Salmon.  Now, I better
>> get off this subject because, I too am getting hungry.  One of the chains
>> here has all the fish and chips you can eat every Tuesday.  The fish is Cod
>> and each piece is half the size of a dinner plate.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>> Sent: September 23, 2017 12:49 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid
>> 
>> Offense is a choice, not an absolute...I thought your comment  was funny.
>> As for directory assistance on your IPhone,  Bell will credit past charges
>> and  you can have that for free.
>> ..and it was likely Rogers.  They were my first land line provider, and
>> misspelled  my name badly.
>> To this day, even though Bell is my provider now, the misspelling remains
>> giving  me a terrific way out with telemarketers.
>> Tim has me hungry for seafood!
>> Karen
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
>>> 
>>> I use Bell as my carrier for the Iphone and Shaw as my land line provider.
>>> Shaw directory assistance is free.  Sadly, you get what you pay for.
>>> The worst example was, Best buy has been here for a couple of years,
>>> yet Shaw said there was no listing for it. Even after notifying them
>>> of their existance, it still took them months to update their data
>>> base.  Bell, the landline service has not made it to Vancouver Island
>>> yet.  However, I think they charged me for D A.  Either that or it was
>>> Rogers.  Regardless I was charged $3 per directory assistance.  I just
>>> wanted to add numbers and addresses to my contact list.  Then I got
>>> all these charges on my bill and was told D A was not free. Glad you
>>> took my comment in the spirit it was meant.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>>> Sent: September 23, 2017 11:55 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid
>>> 
>>> I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory
>>> assistance either for my  Land Line, or my 

RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

If there had been any Canadians at the school on class at the time, I would 
have never made the comment as I know using the term A means nothing in 
respects to class.  Although, try to hear the term A in Ottawa Ontario.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: September 23, 2017 8:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi,
Actually, I don't believe that Anders was referring to the "eh" euphemism at 
all, he simply has a / followed by the letter A at the end of all of his 
messages.  Likely has something to do with his name, although I'd have to defer 
that to Anders himself for exact reasons.  I would also beg to differ with 
respect to which class of Canadian uses the "eh" euphemism.  Class itself is a 
matter of opinion with respect to who fits in where, and I've heard Canadians 
from very well off to not so much use "eh".  I've even been known to use it 
myself and I certainly don't place myself in what might be considered lower 
class.  Now, Bob and Doug MacKenzie, or those two mousse in the Brother Bear 
movie exaggerated its use quite well, eh?

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 16:44, David & his pack of dogs  
wrote:

Oh, BTW, Anders, only low class Canadians say \A.  I can say that being 
Cnadian. Although when I was on class at an American guide dog school, my 
nationality was brought into question as I did not say \A, at any time.  Thus 
my earlier comment.  There were no other Canadians on class with me so, I felt 
I was safe.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
Sent: September 23, 2017 2:50 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi!
I don’t know what to think really.
SOme Iphone and apple fans, especially one blind guy i have seen on some 
swedish list is really happy about siri.
He could get opening and closing times for a specific store somewhere in sweden.
I can not do the same with google assist in swedish.
But i guess it will come, the sooner the better.
>From my perspective siri must have a hearing loss or maybe i have a lisp or 
>stuttering and strange voice.
I asked her to play Script from a jester’s tears by Marillion but she played 
something else.
Hmm, my conclusion is that i agree with you.
/A

> 23 sep. 2017 kl. 17:06 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when 
> you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back 
> and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that 
> look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave 
> you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on 
> that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the 
> first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still 
> can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary 
> stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have 
> other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I know it can do 
> all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what about real world 
> situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and don't want to 
> engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called Assistant?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

What if one does not have a farm?  Grin.  

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
Sent: September 23, 2017 9:14 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

 

A fence is a number of wires tightly streched between posts to keep stock in on 
a farm. P

Sent from my iPhone


On 24/09/2017, at 8:49 AM, Karen Lewellen  > wrote:

Offense is a choice, not an absolute...I thought your comment  was funny.
As for directory assistance on your IPhone,  Bell will credit past charges and  
you can have that for free.
..and it was likely Rogers.  They were my first land line provider, and 
misspelled  my name badly.
To this day, even though Bell is my provider now, the misspelling remains 
giving  me a terrific way out with telemarketers.
Tim has me hungry for seafood!
Karen



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:




I use Bell as my carrier for the Iphone and Shaw as my land line provider.

Shaw directory assistance is free.  Sadly, you get what you pay for.  The

worst example was, Best buy has been here for a couple of years, yet Shaw

said there was no listing for it. Even after notifying them of their

existance, it still took them months to update their data base.  Bell, the

landline service has not made it to Vancouver Island yet.  However, I think

they charged me for D A.  Either that or it was Rogers.  Regardless I was

charged $3 per directory assistance.  I just wanted to add numbers and

addresses to my contact list.  Then I got all these charges on my bill and

was told D A was not free. Glad you took my comment in the spirit it was

meant.

 

-Original Message-

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  

[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen

Sent: September 23, 2017 11:55 AM

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  

Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

 

I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory assistance

either for my  Land Line, or my cell.

I suppose I will discover   how the iPhone works if I either  manage

enough   brain treatment that I can process the voices without acute

dizziness, Or  a voice I can use of a hardware speech kind  carries over to

Apple products.

Laughing at the video games  comment.

granted i learned to play blackjack in DOS, but I use my computer as a

professional tool.

Karen

 

 

"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or

his background or his religion ... People must learn to hate, and if they

can learn to hate, they can be taught to love... For love comes more

naturally to the human heart than its opposite." Nelson Mandela.

 

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

 

Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even

Google maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision

challenges, not their fault of course as there are more Blind friendly

apps out there such as

Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier

you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the

past, the operators spoke a different language then English so either

did not understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when

you asked for a number, gave you the number for someone else that lived in

a different?

State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code

and they give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the wrong

listing.

Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps

uses their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if

you can get it I suppose.  For me, I find that type of activity infantile.

 

 

-Original Message-

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  

[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen

Sent: September 23, 2017 9:44 AM

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  

Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

 

speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving

voiceover,   for the serious work?

Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely

using less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so

ignore me lol.

Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with

your phone  rather than ask Siri?

Just wondering,

Kare

 

 

 

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:

 

Hi,

 

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat

meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a

confirmation sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in

translation.

 

Later...

 

Tim Kilburn

Fort McMurray, AB Canada

 

On Sep 23, 2017, at 

Delete And Enter.

[Georges Zaynoun]

It is rumoured that one does not need to press dots 7 and 8 on a 
Braille display to accomplish these functions without engaging the 
space bar, I did not manage to do it using APH Refreshabraille18 and 
SmartBeetle, what am I missing to do?


--
Georges Zeinoun
Timmerv. 6A ITR LGH1102, 54163 SKÖVDESWEDEN
Tel: +46 (500) 48 29 29 +46 (500) 43 55 11

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Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Simon Fogarty]

A fence is a number of wires tightly streched between posts to keep stock in on 
a farm. P

Sent from my iPhone

On 24/09/2017, at 8:49 AM, Karen Lewellen 
> wrote:

Offense is a choice, not an absolute...I thought your comment  was funny.
As for directory assistance on your IPhone,  Bell will credit past charges and  
you can have that for free.
..and it was likely Rogers.  They were my first land line provider, and 
misspelled  my name badly.
To this day, even though Bell is my provider now, the misspelling remains 
giving  me a terrific way out with telemarketers.
Tim has me hungry for seafood!
Karen



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

I use Bell as my carrier for the Iphone and Shaw as my land line provider.
Shaw directory assistance is free.  Sadly, you get what you pay for.  The
worst example was, Best buy has been here for a couple of years, yet Shaw
said there was no listing for it. Even after notifying them of their
existance, it still took them months to update their data base.  Bell, the
landline service has not made it to Vancouver Island yet.  However, I think
they charged me for D A.  Either that or it was Rogers.  Regardless I was
charged $3 per directory assistance.  I just wanted to add numbers and
addresses to my contact list.  Then I got all these charges on my bill and
was told D A was not free. Glad you took my comment in the spirit it was
meant.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 11:55 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory assistance
either for my  Land Line, or my cell.
I suppose I will discover   how the iPhone works if I either  manage
enough   brain treatment that I can process the voices without acute
dizziness, Or  a voice I can use of a hardware speech kind  carries over to
Apple products.
Laughing at the video games  comment.
granted i learned to play blackjack in DOS, but I use my computer as a
professional tool.
Karen


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or
his background or his religion ... People must learn to hate, and if they
can learn to hate, they can be taught to love... For love comes more
naturally to the human heart than its opposite." Nelson Mandela.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even
Google maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision
challenges, not their fault of course as there are more Blind friendly
apps out there such as
Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier
you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the
past, the operators spoke a different language then English so either
did not understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when
you asked for a number, gave you the number for someone else that lived in
a different?
State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code
and they give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the wrong
listing.
Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps
uses their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if
you can get it I suppose.  For me, I find that type of activity infantile.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 9:44 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving
voiceover,   for the serious work?
Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely
using less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so
ignore me lol.
Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with
your phone  rather than ask Siri?
Just wondering,
Kare



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat
meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a
confirmation sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in
translation.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten 
> wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely
obtuse
when you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will
come back and say I found such and such a place on such and such a
Street, does that look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well,
Siri, since I already gave you the street 

Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,
Actually, I don't believe that Anders was referring to the "eh" euphemism at 
all, he simply has a / followed by the letter A at the end of all of his 
messages.  Likely has something to do with his name, although I'd have to defer 
that to Anders himself for exact reasons.  I would also beg to differ with 
respect to which class of Canadian uses the "eh" euphemism.  Class itself is a 
matter of opinion with respect to who fits in where, and I've heard Canadians 
from very well off to not so much use "eh".  I've even been known to use it 
myself and I certainly don't place myself in what might be considered lower 
class.  Now, Bob and Doug MacKenzie, or those two mousse in the Brother Bear 
movie exaggerated its use quite well, eh?

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 16:44, David & his pack of dogs  
wrote:

Oh, BTW, Anders, only low class Canadians say \A.  I can say that being 
Cnadian. Although when I was on class at an American guide dog school, my 
nationality was brought into question as I did not say \A, at any time.  Thus 
my earlier comment.  There were no other Canadians on class with me so, I felt 
I was safe.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
Sent: September 23, 2017 2:50 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi!
I don’t know what to think really.
SOme Iphone and apple fans, especially one blind guy i have seen on some 
swedish list is really happy about siri.
He could get opening and closing times for a specific store somewhere in sweden.
I can not do the same with google assist in swedish.
But i guess it will come, the sooner the better.
>From my perspective siri must have a hearing loss or maybe i have a lisp or 
>stuttering and strange voice.
I asked her to play Script from a jester’s tears by Marillion but she played 
something else.
Hmm, my conclusion is that i agree with you.
/A

> 23 sep. 2017 kl. 17:06 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when 
> you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back 
> and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that 
> look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave 
> you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on 
> that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the 
> first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still 
> can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary 
> stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have 
> other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I know it can do 
> all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what about real world 
> situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and don't want to 
> engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called Assistant?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Karen Lewellen]

Well speaking only for myself,  I can tell you that sarcasm even with 
facial expressions has no universal dictionary.
It is one thing I wonder about using face recognition  on IPhone as some 
sort of security.
There are simply too many expressions, and interpretation of those 
expressions.  It is one reason why audio description helps those from 
different  cultures, regardless of eye chart score.
Speaking only for myself, I feel even suggesting that sight and blindness 
are  some two sided uniformed concept misleads everyone, simply does not 
work  that simply.

Now back to dinner.  What is the name of the fish & chips heaven chain?
I hope it is national!  I really love all things seafood.
Seriously, words are neutral in my view, we bring to them our own 
definitions largely.   meaning in my view that how we respond, the power 
to be insulted, in theory lies entirely with ourselves.

 Kare



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:


Well, you'd be surprised or maybe not, how many people in this world take
offense at my comments especially in emails.  Even in person.  With the
sighted, I think, cannot they see my facial expression? For the record, the
Lobster out east supposedly tastes better than the one in the west here. The
Oysters in Fanny bay are delicious, though. As is the Salmon.  Now, I better
get off this subject because, I too am getting hungry.  One of the chains
here has all the fish and chips you can eat every Tuesday.  The fish is Cod
and each piece is half the size of a dinner plate.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 12:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

Offense is a choice, not an absolute...I thought your comment  was funny.
As for directory assistance on your IPhone,  Bell will credit past charges
and  you can have that for free.
..and it was likely Rogers.  They were my first land line provider, and
misspelled  my name badly.
To this day, even though Bell is my provider now, the misspelling remains
giving  me a terrific way out with telemarketers.
Tim has me hungry for seafood!
Karen



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:


I use Bell as my carrier for the Iphone and Shaw as my land line provider.
Shaw directory assistance is free.  Sadly, you get what you pay for.
The worst example was, Best buy has been here for a couple of years,
yet Shaw said there was no listing for it. Even after notifying them
of their existance, it still took them months to update their data
base.  Bell, the landline service has not made it to Vancouver Island
yet.  However, I think they charged me for D A.  Either that or it was
Rogers.  Regardless I was charged $3 per directory assistance.  I just
wanted to add numbers and addresses to my contact list.  Then I got
all these charges on my bill and was told D A was not free. Glad you
took my comment in the spirit it was meant.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 11:55 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory
assistance either for my  Land Line, or my cell.
I suppose I will discover   how the iPhone works if I either  manage
enough   brain treatment that I can process the voices without acute
dizziness, Or  a voice I can use of a hardware speech kind  carries
over to Apple products.
Laughing at the video games  comment.
granted i learned to play blackjack in DOS, but I use my computer as a
professional tool.
Karen


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin
or his background or his religion ... People must learn to hate, and
if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love... For love
comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite." Nelson

Mandela.


On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:


Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even
Google maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision
challenges, not their fault of course as there are more Blind
friendly

apps out there such as

Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier
you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the
past, the operators spoke a different language then English so either
did not understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when
you asked for a number, gave you the number for someone else that
lived in

a different?

State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code
and they give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the
wrong

listing.

Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps
uses their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if
you can get it I 

others having problems on facebook after update to Ios 11?

[Sandi Jazmin Kruse]

subject really puts it on the spot, others having problems after
updating to Ios 11?

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RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

Well, you'd be surprised or maybe not, how many people in this world take
offense at my comments especially in emails.  Even in person.  With the
sighted, I think, cannot they see my facial expression? For the record, the
Lobster out east supposedly tastes better than the one in the west here. The
Oysters in Fanny bay are delicious, though. As is the Salmon.  Now, I better
get off this subject because, I too am getting hungry.  One of the chains
here has all the fish and chips you can eat every Tuesday.  The fish is Cod
and each piece is half the size of a dinner plate.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 12:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

Offense is a choice, not an absolute...I thought your comment  was funny.
As for directory assistance on your IPhone,  Bell will credit past charges
and  you can have that for free.
..and it was likely Rogers.  They were my first land line provider, and
misspelled  my name badly.
To this day, even though Bell is my provider now, the misspelling remains
giving  me a terrific way out with telemarketers.
Tim has me hungry for seafood!
Karen



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

> I use Bell as my carrier for the Iphone and Shaw as my land line provider.
> Shaw directory assistance is free.  Sadly, you get what you pay for.  
> The worst example was, Best buy has been here for a couple of years, 
> yet Shaw said there was no listing for it. Even after notifying them 
> of their existance, it still took them months to update their data 
> base.  Bell, the landline service has not made it to Vancouver Island 
> yet.  However, I think they charged me for D A.  Either that or it was 
> Rogers.  Regardless I was charged $3 per directory assistance.  I just 
> wanted to add numbers and addresses to my contact list.  Then I got 
> all these charges on my bill and was told D A was not free. Glad you 
> took my comment in the spirit it was meant.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
> Sent: September 23, 2017 11:55 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid
>
> I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory 
> assistance either for my  Land Line, or my cell.
> I suppose I will discover   how the iPhone works if I either  manage
> enough   brain treatment that I can process the voices without acute
> dizziness, Or  a voice I can use of a hardware speech kind  carries 
> over to Apple products.
> Laughing at the video games  comment.
> granted i learned to play blackjack in DOS, but I use my computer as a 
> professional tool.
> Karen
>
>
> "No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin 
> or his background or his religion ... People must learn to hate, and 
> if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love... For love 
> comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite." Nelson
Mandela.
>
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
>
>> Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even 
>> Google maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision 
>> challenges, not their fault of course as there are more Blind 
>> friendly
> apps out there such as
>> Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier
>> you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the 
>> past, the operators spoke a different language then English so either 
>> did not understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when 
>> you asked for a number, gave you the number for someone else that 
>> lived in
> a different?
>> State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code 
>> and they give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the 
>> wrong
> listing.
>> Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps 
>> uses their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if 
>> you can get it I suppose.  For me, I find that type of activity
infantile.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>> Sent: September 23, 2017 9:44 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid
>>
>> speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving
>> voiceover,   for the serious work?
>> Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely 
>> using less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so 
>> ignore me lol.
>> Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with 
>> your phone  rather than ask Siri?
>> Just wondering,
>> Kare
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> While I 

Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David Chittenden]

Actually, Siri uses Apple Maps. Apple Maps primarily uses the TomTom database.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 Sep 2017, at 03:26, David & his pack of dogs  
> wrote:
> 
> Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even Google
> maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision challenges, not their
> fault of course as there are more Blind friendly apps out there such as
> Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier
> you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the past,
> the operators spoke a different language then English so either did not
> understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when you asked for a
> number, gave you the number for someone else that lived in a different?
> State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code and they
> give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the wrong listing.
> Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps uses
> their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if you can get
> it I suppose.  For me, I find that type of activity infantile.  
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
> Sent: September 23, 2017 9:44 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid
> 
> speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving 
> voiceover,   for the serious work?
> Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely using
> less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so ignore me
> lol.
> Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with your
> phone  rather than ask Siri?
> Just wondering,
> Kare
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat
> meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation
> sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse
> when you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come
> back and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does
> that look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already
> gave you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one
> such on that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for
> in the first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri
> still can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty
> elementary stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri,
> anyway? Have other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I
> know it can do all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what
> about real world situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and
> don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called
> Assistant?
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> --
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> Visionaries list.
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>> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is 
>> Cara Quinn - you 

RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

Oh, BTW, Anders, only low class Canadians say \A.  I can say that being 
Cnadian. Although when I was on class at an American guide dog school, my 
nationality was brought into question as I did not say \A, at any time.  Thus 
my earlier comment.  There were no other Canadians on class with me so, I felt 
I was safe.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
Sent: September 23, 2017 2:50 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi!
I don’t know what to think really.
SOme Iphone and apple fans, especially one blind guy i have seen on some 
swedish list is really happy about siri.
He could get opening and closing times for a specific store somewhere in sweden.
I can not do the same with google assist in swedish.
But i guess it will come, the sooner the better.
>From my perspective siri must have a hearing loss or maybe i have a lisp or 
>stuttering and strange voice.
I asked her to play Script from a jester’s tears by Marillion but she played 
something else.
Hmm, my conclusion is that i agree with you.
/A

> 23 sep. 2017 kl. 17:06 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when 
> you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back 
> and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that 
> look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave 
> you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on 
> that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the 
> first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still 
> can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary 
> stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have 
> other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I know it can do 
> all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what about real world 
> situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and don't want to 
> engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called Assistant?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

There is an updated version of a T V program that was on T V years ago called 
"To tel the truth" On that updated version they had the real live person who 
did the SIRI voice.  I had no problem recognizing her as it was audible.  I 
laughed when she was asked how much she was paid to do the voice.  "Not 
enough." Was her response.  She also outlined the pain steaking method she went 
through to record the voice.  As in, going through every possible question that 
could be asked.  So, seeing this thread, I muse what she would think if she saw 
it?  Would she say she was being flamed?  Smile.   

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
Sent: September 23, 2017 2:50 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi!
I don’t know what to think really.
SOme Iphone and apple fans, especially one blind guy i have seen on some 
swedish list is really happy about siri.
He could get opening and closing times for a specific store somewhere in sweden.
I can not do the same with google assist in swedish.
But i guess it will come, the sooner the better.
>From my perspective siri must have a hearing loss or maybe i have a lisp or 
>stuttering and strange voice.
I asked her to play Script from a jester’s tears by Marillion but she played 
something else.
Hmm, my conclusion is that i agree with you.
/A

> 23 sep. 2017 kl. 17:06 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when 
> you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back 
> and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that 
> look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave 
> you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on 
> that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the 
> first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still 
> can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary 
> stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have 
> other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I know it can do 
> all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what about real world 
> situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and don't want to 
> engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called Assistant?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
THe name sounds pritty cool to me.
Sorry for that but i couldn’t hold back.
/A

> 23 sep. 2017 kl. 21:07 skrev Tim Kilburn :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I love Squamish.  It's a beautiful town with excellent sea food restaurants.  
> I have asked Siri for directions and got useless responses, and have also got 
> spot on responses.  I haven't tried since the upgrade to iOS 11, so can't 
> confirm nor deny results.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:50, David & his pack of dogs  
> wrote:
> 
> Agreed.  Wait till you use the dictation function and ask for directions to a 
> certain place and it gives you direction to a city hundreds of Killometers 
> away. As in another State.  I should try it with Fort Macmurry?  I wonder if 
> it would give me directions to the closest McDonalds, thinking I am asking 
> for a Mcflurry? I really has trouble with a city outside a world reknowned 
> ski resort, Whistler B C Canada.  The city is called Squamish, where I had a 
> potential job.  It never could understand what I was saying and would always 
> give me directions to places in California.  Maybe she wanted a warmer 
> climate?  LOL.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
> Sent: September 23, 2017 8:14 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid
> 
> Hi,
> 
> While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat 
> meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation 
> sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when 
> you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back 
> and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that 
> look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave 
> you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on 
> that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the 
> first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still 
> can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary 
> stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have 
> other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I know it can do 
> all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what about real world 
> situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and don't want to 
> engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called Assistant?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Voiceover and subtitles

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I have seen the feature but not used it yet.
Maybe i could try it in youtube on the estonian mayday call or something else i 
don’t understand.
That mayday call is spoken in finnish and that’s not a language for me to learn 
even though i whish i could.
/A

> 23 sep. 2017 kl. 21:03 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> There is a new feature in iOS 11 where voiceover is supposed to be able to 
> read subtitles. I just tried it using the Prime Video app on my iPad mini 
> two. Strangely, I found that with VoiceOver enabled, I could not activate 
> subtitles in the Prime Video app. With voiceover off, my sighted spouse was 
> able to turn subtitles on, and then VoiceOver read them, although it was kind 
> of choppy. That could be a function of the fact that I'm using an iPad mini 
> 2, which isn't gods gift to speediness. I'm curious if anyone has been able 
> to turn subtitles on and off with in the Amazon prime video app or any other 
> app for that matter, when voiceover is enabled. I don't know if this is a 
> voiceover issue or a bug in the Prime Video app.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I don’t know what to think really.
SOme Iphone and apple fans, especially one blind guy i have seen on some 
swedish list is really happy about siri.
He could get opening and closing times for a specific store somewhere in sweden.
I can not do the same with google assist in swedish.
But i guess it will come, the sooner the better.
>From my perspective siri must have a hearing loss or maybe i have a lisp or 
>stuttering and strange voice.
I asked her to play Script from a jester’s tears by Marillion but she played 
something else.
Hmm, my conclusion is that i agree with you.
/A

> 23 sep. 2017 kl. 17:06 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when 
> you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back 
> and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that 
> look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave 
> you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on 
> that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the 
> first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still 
> can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary 
> stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have 
> other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I know it can do 
> all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what about real world 
> situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and don't want to 
> engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called Assistant?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I had the best scallops ever when in Squamish, and some excellent Fanny Bay 
Mussels too.  Mighty tasty beverage in a growler as well.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 13:49, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

Offense is a choice, not an absolute...I thought your comment  was funny.
As for directory assistance on your IPhone,  Bell will credit past charges and  
you can have that for free.
..and it was likely Rogers.  They were my first land line provider, and 
misspelled  my name badly.
To this day, even though Bell is my provider now, the misspelling remains 
giving  me a terrific way out with telemarketers.
Tim has me hungry for seafood!
Karen



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

> I use Bell as my carrier for the Iphone and Shaw as my land line provider.
> Shaw directory assistance is free.  Sadly, you get what you pay for.  The
> worst example was, Best buy has been here for a couple of years, yet Shaw
> said there was no listing for it. Even after notifying them of their
> existance, it still took them months to update their data base.  Bell, the
> landline service has not made it to Vancouver Island yet.  However, I think
> they charged me for D A.  Either that or it was Rogers.  Regardless I was
> charged $3 per directory assistance.  I just wanted to add numbers and
> addresses to my contact list.  Then I got all these charges on my bill and
> was told D A was not free. Glad you took my comment in the spirit it was
> meant.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
> Sent: September 23, 2017 11:55 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid
> 
> I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory assistance
> either for my  Land Line, or my cell.
> I suppose I will discover   how the iPhone works if I either  manage
> enough   brain treatment that I can process the voices without acute
> dizziness, Or  a voice I can use of a hardware speech kind  carries over to
> Apple products.
> Laughing at the video games  comment.
> granted i learned to play blackjack in DOS, but I use my computer as a
> professional tool.
> Karen
> 
> 
> "No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or
> his background or his religion ... People must learn to hate, and if they
> can learn to hate, they can be taught to love... For love comes more
> naturally to the human heart than its opposite." Nelson Mandela.
> 
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
> 
>> Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even
>> Google maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision
>> challenges, not their fault of course as there are more Blind friendly
> apps out there such as
>> Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier
>> you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the
>> past, the operators spoke a different language then English so either
>> did not understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when
>> you asked for a number, gave you the number for someone else that lived in
> a different?
>> State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code
>> and they give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the wrong
> listing.
>> Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps
>> uses their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if
>> you can get it I suppose.  For me, I find that type of activity infantile.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>> Sent: September 23, 2017 9:44 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid
>> 
>> speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving
>> voiceover,   for the serious work?
>> Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely
>> using less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so
>> ignore me lol.
>> Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with
>> your phone  rather than ask Siri?
>> Just wondering,
>> Kare
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat
>> meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a
>> confirmation sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in
> translation.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely
>>> obtuse
>> when you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will
>> come back and say I found such and such a place on such and such a

RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Karen Lewellen]

Offense is a choice, not an absolute...I thought your comment  was funny.
As for directory assistance on your IPhone,  Bell will credit past charges 
and  you can have that for free.
..and it was likely Rogers.  They were my first land line provider, and 
misspelled  my name badly.
To this day, even though Bell is my provider now, the misspelling remains 
giving  me a terrific way out with telemarketers.

Tim has me hungry for seafood!
Karen



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:


I use Bell as my carrier for the Iphone and Shaw as my land line provider.
Shaw directory assistance is free.  Sadly, you get what you pay for.  The
worst example was, Best buy has been here for a couple of years, yet Shaw
said there was no listing for it. Even after notifying them of their
existance, it still took them months to update their data base.  Bell, the
landline service has not made it to Vancouver Island yet.  However, I think
they charged me for D A.  Either that or it was Rogers.  Regardless I was
charged $3 per directory assistance.  I just wanted to add numbers and
addresses to my contact list.  Then I got all these charges on my bill and
was told D A was not free. Glad you took my comment in the spirit it was
meant.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 11:55 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory assistance
either for my  Land Line, or my cell.
I suppose I will discover   how the iPhone works if I either  manage
enough   brain treatment that I can process the voices without acute
dizziness, Or  a voice I can use of a hardware speech kind  carries over to
Apple products.
Laughing at the video games  comment.
granted i learned to play blackjack in DOS, but I use my computer as a
professional tool.
Karen


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or
his background or his religion ... People must learn to hate, and if they
can learn to hate, they can be taught to love... For love comes more
naturally to the human heart than its opposite." Nelson Mandela.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:


Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even
Google maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision
challenges, not their fault of course as there are more Blind friendly

apps out there such as

Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier
you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the
past, the operators spoke a different language then English so either
did not understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when
you asked for a number, gave you the number for someone else that lived in

a different?

State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code
and they give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the wrong

listing.

Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps
uses their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if
you can get it I suppose.  For me, I find that type of activity infantile.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 9:44 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving
voiceover,   for the serious work?
Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely
using less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so
ignore me lol.
Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with
your phone  rather than ask Siri?
Just wondering,
Kare



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:


Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat

meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a
confirmation sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in

translation.


Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely
obtuse

when you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will
come back and say I found such and such a place on such and such a
Street, does that look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well,
Siri, since I already gave you the street name of the store name, and
I know there is only one such on that street, why don't you just give
me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google does this
and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even
in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the
hell did you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people
found improvements to 

RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

It takes some adjusting to get used to using SIRI.  However, I feel it is worth 
it in the long run.  I was introduced to it when at a guide dog school and did 
not have an Iphone.  A couple of students gave me a demonstration on asking 
questions of SIRI just to hear the response they got back.  The questions can 
not be posted on this list because some members may be under 18.  LOL.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: September 23, 2017 12:07 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi,

I love Squamish.  It's a beautiful town with excellent sea food restaurants.  I 
have asked Siri for directions and got useless responses, and have also got 
spot on responses.  I haven't tried since the upgrade to iOS 11, so can't 
confirm nor deny results.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:50, David & his pack of dogs  
wrote:

Agreed.  Wait till you use the dictation function and ask for directions to a 
certain place and it gives you direction to a city hundreds of Killometers 
away. As in another State.  I should try it with Fort Macmurry?  I wonder if it 
would give me directions to the closest McDonalds, thinking I am asking for a 
Mcflurry? I really has trouble with a city outside a world reknowned ski 
resort, Whistler B C Canada.  The city is called Squamish, where I had a 
potential job.  It never could understand what I was saying and would always 
give me directions to places in California.  Maybe she wanted a warmer climate? 
 LOL.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: September 23, 2017 8:14 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat 
meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation 
sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when you 
asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back and say 
I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that look good? 
Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave you the street 
name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on that street, why 
don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google 
does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even 
in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the hell did 
you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people found improvements 
to Siri in the real world? I know it can do all sorts of music trivia about 
which I care not. But what about real world situations? You know, like when you 
want a phone number and don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with 
your so called Assistant?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

I use Bell as my carrier for the Iphone and Shaw as my land line provider.
Shaw directory assistance is free.  Sadly, you get what you pay for.  The
worst example was, Best buy has been here for a couple of years, yet Shaw
said there was no listing for it. Even after notifying them of their
existance, it still took them months to update their data base.  Bell, the
landline service has not made it to Vancouver Island yet.  However, I think
they charged me for D A.  Either that or it was Rogers.  Regardless I was
charged $3 per directory assistance.  I just wanted to add numbers and
addresses to my contact list.  Then I got all these charges on my bill and
was told D A was not free. Glad you took my comment in the spirit it was
meant.   

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 11:55 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory assistance
either for my  Land Line, or my cell.
I suppose I will discover   how the iPhone works if I either  manage 
enough   brain treatment that I can process the voices without acute 
dizziness, Or  a voice I can use of a hardware speech kind  carries over to
Apple products.
Laughing at the video games  comment.
granted i learned to play blackjack in DOS, but I use my computer as a
professional tool.
Karen


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or
his background or his religion ... People must learn to hate, and if they
can learn to hate, they can be taught to love... For love comes more
naturally to the human heart than its opposite." Nelson Mandela.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

> Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even 
> Google maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision 
> challenges, not their fault of course as there are more Blind friendly
apps out there such as
> Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier
> you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the 
> past, the operators spoke a different language then English so either 
> did not understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when 
> you asked for a number, gave you the number for someone else that lived in
a different?
> State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code 
> and they give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the wrong
listing.
> Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps 
> uses their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if 
> you can get it I suppose.  For me, I find that type of activity infantile.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
> Sent: September 23, 2017 9:44 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid
>
> speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving
> voiceover,   for the serious work?
> Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely 
> using less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so 
> ignore me lol.
> Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with 
> your phone  rather than ask Siri?
> Just wondering,
> Kare
>
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat
> meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a 
> confirmation sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in
translation.
>>
>> Later...
>>
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>
>> On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>
>> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely 
>> obtuse
> when you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will 
> come back and say I found such and such a place on such and such a 
> Street, does that look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, 
> Siri, since I already gave you the street name of the store name, and 
> I know there is only one such on that street, why don't you just give 
> me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google does this 
> and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even 
> in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the 
> hell did you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people 
> found improvements to Siri in the real world? I know it can do all 
> sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what about real 
> world situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and 
> don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called
Assistant?
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all 

RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

It is particularly important if there is more than one street with the same 
name, such as in Montreal Quebec Canada.  There are 6 different streets with 
the same name so, an address is vital.  Also, in Victoria B C Canada.  There is 
McKenzie avenue and McKenzie street. As strange as it sounds, changing the SIRI 
voice to U K English, helped immensely with understanding the address and 
street I was wanting to find, as in Squamish B C.  Of course, there is that 
often-used fraise with guide dog trainers when there is a problem with the 
guide and handler, “Handler error.”  In this case, blame the user of the 
device.  LOL.   

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of John Panarese
Sent: September 23, 2017 11:39 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

 

  If you ask for directions for a specific place, try to be a specific as 
possible. I've found that you will get options that are quite comical and will 
be across the country from you. I've figured out by trial and error that if you 
can be as specific as possible, your results tend to fall in the parameters 
you'd expect. When I just asked for information on the restaurant I was 
interested in, for example, I made sure I included, Saint James New York, as 
part of the request.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com  
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT



 

On Sep 23, 2017, at 11:50 AM, David & his pack of dogs  > wrote:

 

Agreed.  Wait till you use the dictation function and ask for directions to a 
certain place and it gives you direction to a city hundreds of Killometers 
away. As in another State.  I should try it with Fort Macmurry?  I wonder if it 
would give me directions to the closest McDonalds, thinking I am asking for a 
Mcflurry? I really has trouble with a city outside a world reknowned ski 
resort, Whistler B C Canada.  The city is called Squamish, where I had a 
potential job.  It never could understand what I was saying and would always 
give me directions to places in California.  Maybe she wanted a warmer climate? 
 LOL.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com   
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: September 23, 2017 8:14 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat 
meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation 
sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  > wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when you 
asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back and say 
I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that look good? 
Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave you the street 
name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on that street, why 
don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google 
does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even 
in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the hell did 
you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people found improvements 
to Siri in the real world? I know it can do all sorts of music trivia about 
which I care not. But what about real world situations? You know, like when you 
want a phone number and don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with 
your so called Assistant?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[M. Taylor]

You know, David, you're right.

The other day, after updating to iOS 11 on a 6 S Plus, for the first time ever, 
using dictation Siri kept giving me directions to a CVS pharmacy located over 
50 miles away even though there are at least 7 of them within 10 miles of my 
location.  

As I was in a car with someone, an Android user no less, (smile), it was quite 
embarrassing.  Fortunately, I had my 6 Plus running iOS 10, and was able to get 
the correct location, the first time out.  

I'm definitely glad I have not yet updated my primary device to iOS 11.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David & his pack of dogs
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:50 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

Agreed.  Wait till you use the dictation function and ask for directions to a 
certain place and it gives you direction to a city hundreds of Killometers 
away. As in another State.  I should try it with Fort Macmurry?  I wonder if it 
would give me directions to the closest McDonalds, thinking I am asking for a 
Mcflurry? I really has trouble with a city outside a world reknowned ski 
resort, Whistler B C Canada.  The city is called Squamish, where I had a 
potential job.  It never could understand what I was saying and would always 
give me directions to places in California.  Maybe she wanted a warmer climate? 
 LOL.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: September 23, 2017 8:14 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat 
meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation 
sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when you 
asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back and say 
I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that look good? 
Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave you the street 
name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on that street, why 
don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google 
does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even 
in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the hell did 
you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people found improvements 
to Siri in the real world? I know it can do all sorts of music trivia about 
which I care not. But what about real world situations? You know, like when you 
want a phone number and don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with 
your so called Assistant?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I love Squamish.  It's a beautiful town with excellent sea food restaurants.  I 
have asked Siri for directions and got useless responses, and have also got 
spot on responses.  I haven't tried since the upgrade to iOS 11, so can't 
confirm nor deny results.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:50, David & his pack of dogs  
wrote:

Agreed.  Wait till you use the dictation function and ask for directions to a 
certain place and it gives you direction to a city hundreds of Killometers 
away. As in another State.  I should try it with Fort Macmurry?  I wonder if it 
would give me directions to the closest McDonalds, thinking I am asking for a 
Mcflurry? I really has trouble with a city outside a world reknowned ski 
resort, Whistler B C Canada.  The city is called Squamish, where I had a 
potential job.  It never could understand what I was saying and would always 
give me directions to places in California.  Maybe she wanted a warmer climate? 
 LOL.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: September 23, 2017 8:14 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat 
meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation 
sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when you 
asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back and say 
I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that look good? 
Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave you the street 
name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on that street, why 
don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google 
does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even 
in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the hell did 
you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people found improvements 
to Siri in the real world? I know it can do all sorts of music trivia about 
which I care not. But what about real world situations? You know, like when you 
want a phone number and don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with 
your so called Assistant?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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RE: Reading one's own responses in longer message threads

[M. Taylor]

Hello Michael,

The phenomenon you've described appears to be a function of Mac OS/iOS, only.  

When I contribute to a thread on my Mac, I do not see my reply in the thread.  
However, when I contribute from my Windows PC using Outlook, I do see the reply 
in the thread, even when viewing the thread from my Mac.  A similar, but 
slightly difference thing happens in iOS.  

I believe the solution is to, from within the Mac Mail settings, select to copy 
yourself.  

Try that change, and let us know what happens.

Mark 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Michael Busboom
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:43 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Reading one's own responses in longer message threads

Thanks, Tim.

Unfortunately, ‚Include related messages‘ was already checked, so there must be 
something else happening.

Take care and thanks again,

Mike

> On 23 Sep 2017, at 16:32, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Try checking the box to include related messages.  This setting is found in 
> Mail Prefs, under the Viewing tab, way down at the bottom.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 23, 2017, at 08:27, Michael Busboom  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> One of the things I enjoy about Apple Mail is the ability to sort, expand and 
> collapse conversations quite easily.  However, I am wondering if there is a 
> way to get the program to also include my own responses in a longer thread.  
> I see everybody els’es contributions to a conversation,but it would really be 
> nice if my own responses were also displayed.  Is there a way to make this 
> happen?
> 
> Thanks and have a great weekend,
> 
> Mike
> messages by 
> 
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For more options, 

Voiceover and subtitles

[Mary Otten]

There is a new feature in iOS 11 where voiceover is supposed to be able to read 
subtitles. I just tried it using the Prime Video app on my iPad mini two. 
Strangely, I found that with VoiceOver enabled, I could not activate subtitles 
in the Prime Video app. With voiceover off, my sighted spouse was able to turn 
subtitles on, and then VoiceOver read them, although it was kind of choppy. 
That could be a function of the fact that I'm using an iPad mini 2, which isn't 
gods gift to speediness. I'm curious if anyone has been able to turn subtitles 
on and off with in the Amazon prime video app or any other app for that matter, 
when voiceover is enabled. I don't know if this is a voiceover issue or a bug 
in the Prime Video app.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Karen Lewellen]

I use bell here in Canada, and have never paid for directory assistance 
either for my  Land Line, or my cell.
I suppose I will discover   how the iPhone works if I either  manage 
enough   brain treatment that I can process the voices without acute 
dizziness, Or  a voice I can use of a hardware speech kind  carries over 
to Apple products.

Laughing at the video games  comment.
granted i learned to play blackjack in DOS, but I use my computer as 
a professional tool.

Karen


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his
skin or his background or his religion ... People must learn to
hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to
love... For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its
opposite." Nelson Mandela.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:


Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even Google
maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision challenges, not their
fault of course as there are more Blind friendly apps out there such as
Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier
you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the past,
the operators spoke a different language then English so either did not
understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when you asked for a
number, gave you the number for someone else that lived in a different?
State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code and they
give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the wrong listing.
Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps uses
their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if you can get
it I suppose.  For me, I find that type of activity infantile.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 9:44 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving
voiceover,   for the serious work?
Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely using
less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so ignore me
lol.
Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with your
phone  rather than ask Siri?
Just wondering,
Kare



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:


Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat

meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation
sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.


Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse

when you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come
back and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does
that look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already
gave you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one
such on that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for
in the first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri
still can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty
elementary stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri,
anyway? Have other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I
know it can do all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what
about real world situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and
don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called
Assistant?

Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

Karen, we love you, however, SIRI uses Google maps I believe.  Even Google
maps is for the sighted not for ones who have vision challenges, not their
fault of course as there are more Blind friendly apps out there such as
Nearby Explorer.   As for Directory assistance, I don't know what carrier
you are using for it, most must pay at least $3 per call and in the past,
the operators spoke a different language then English so either did not
understand what you wanted, weren't really listening or when you asked for a
number, gave you the number for someone else that lived in a different?
State or province.  When you know the party is in the 203-area code and they
give you a number in the 602-area code, you know it is the wrong listing.
Your response reminds me of someone who has good vision and perhaps uses
their computer for just playing video games. Not shoddy work if you can get
it I suppose.  For me, I find that type of activity infantile.  
  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 23, 2017 9:44 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving 
voiceover,   for the serious work?
Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely using
less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so ignore me
lol.
Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with your
phone  rather than ask Siri?
Just wondering,
Kare



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:

> Hi,
>
> While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat
meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation
sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:
>
> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse
when you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come
back and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does
that look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already
gave you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one
such on that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for
in the first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri
still can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty
elementary stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri,
anyway? Have other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I
know it can do all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what
about real world situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and
don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called
Assistant?
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[John Panarese]

  If you ask for directions for a specific place, try to be a specific as 
possible. I've found that you will get options that are quite comical and will 
be across the country from you. I've figured out by trial and error that if you 
can be as specific as possible, your results tend to fall in the parameters 
you'd expect. When I just asked for information on the restaurant I was 
interested in, for example, I made sure I included, Saint James New York, as 
part of the request.

Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT



> On Sep 23, 2017, at 11:50 AM, David & his pack of dogs 
>  wrote:
> 
> Agreed.  Wait till you use the dictation function and ask for directions to a 
> certain place and it gives you direction to a city hundreds of Killometers 
> away. As in another State.  I should try it with Fort Macmurry?  I wonder if 
> it would give me directions to the closest McDonalds, thinking I am asking 
> for a Mcflurry? I really has trouble with a city outside a world reknowned 
> ski resort, Whistler B C Canada.  The city is called Squamish, where I had a 
> potential job.  It never could understand what I was saying and would always 
> give me directions to places in California.  Maybe she wanted a warmer 
> climate?  LOL.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
> Sent: September 23, 2017 8:14 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid
> 
> Hi,
> 
> While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat 
> meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation 
> sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when 
> you asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back 
> and say I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that 
> look good? Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave 
> you the street name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on 
> that street, why don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the 
> first place? Google does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still 
> can't get this right even in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary 
> stuff. What the hell did you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have 
> other people found improvements to Siri in the real world? I know it can do 
> all sorts of music trivia about which I care not. But what about real world 
> situations? You know, like when you want a phone number and don't want to 
> engage in meaningless back-and-forth with your so called Assistant?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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RE: Siri is still pretty stupid

[David & his pack of dogs]

Agreed.  Wait till you use the dictation function and ask for directions to a 
certain place and it gives you direction to a city hundreds of Killometers 
away. As in another State.  I should try it with Fort Macmurry?  I wonder if it 
would give me directions to the closest McDonalds, thinking I am asking for a 
Mcflurry? I really has trouble with a city outside a world reknowned ski 
resort, Whistler B C Canada.  The city is called Squamish, where I had a 
potential job.  It never could understand what I was saying and would always 
give me directions to places in California.  Maybe she wanted a warmer climate? 
 LOL.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: September 23, 2017 8:14 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat 
meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation 
sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when you 
asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back and say 
I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that look good? 
Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave you the street 
name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on that street, why 
don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google 
does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even 
in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the hell did 
you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people found improvements 
to Siri in the real world? I know it can do all sorts of music trivia about 
which I care not. But what about real world situations? You know, like when you 
want a phone number and don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with 
your so called Assistant?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Karen Lewellen]

speaking only for myself, is not siri more of a toy anyway? leaving 
voiceover,   for the serious work?
Personally I just dial directory assistance, since Siri  is likely using 
less  current data.  Still I am not using  an iPhone anyway, so ignore me 
lol.
Seriously, could not you just google the location for the number with your 
phone  rather than ask Siri?

Just wondering,
Kare



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:


Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat 
meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation 
sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when you 
asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back and say 
I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that look good? 
Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave you the street 
name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on that street, why 
don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google 
does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even 
in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the hell did 
you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people found improvements 
to Siri in the real world? I know it can do all sorts of music trivia about 
which I care not. But what about real world situations? You know, like when you 
want a phone number and don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with 
your so called Assistant?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Siri is still pretty stupid

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

While I understand your frustration with the redundancy and somewhat 
meaningless back and forth banter, I believe that it is just a confirmation 
sort of thing due to the fact that mistakes can be made in translation.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 09:06, Mary Otten  wrote:

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when you 
asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back and say 
I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that look good? 
Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave you the street 
name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on that street, why 
don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google 
does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even 
in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the hell did 
you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people found improvements 
to Siri in the real world? I know it can do all sorts of music trivia about 
which I care not. But what about real world situations? You know, like when you 
want a phone number and don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with 
your so called Assistant?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Reading one's own responses in longer message threads

[Michael Busboom]

I will go into my private, non-Google account and see if the results are 
different. Thanks.
> On 23 Sep 2017, at 17:05, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I think what's happening here is due to G-Mail then.  When using Google Mail, 
> messages sent to groups that you are a member of are not sent back to you.  
> If you used a different mail service, such as iCloud, your messages would be 
> returned to you and thus be included in the thread, unless you deleted them.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 23, 2017, at 08:43, Michael Busboom  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Tim.
> 
> Unfortunately, ‚Include related messages‘ was already checked, so there must 
> be something else happening.
> 
> Take care and thanks again,
> 
> Mike
> 
>> On 23 Sep 2017, at 16:32, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Try checking the box to include related messages.  This setting is found in 
>> Mail Prefs, under the Viewing tab, way down at the bottom.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 23, 2017, at 08:27, Michael Busboom  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> One of the things I enjoy about Apple Mail is the ability to sort, expand 
>> and collapse conversations quite easily.  However, I am wondering if there 
>> is a way to get the program to also include my own responses in a longer 
>> thread.  I see everybody els’es contributions to a conversation,but it would 
>> really be nice if my own responses were also displayed.  Is there a way to 
>> make this happen?
>> 
>> Thanks and have a great weekend,
>> 
>> Mike
>> messages by 
>> 
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> 

Siri is still pretty stupid

[Mary Otten]

One of my pet peeve's about Siri has been that it is absolutely obtuse when you 
asked to find a specific place on a specific street. It will come back and say 
I found such and such a place on such and such a Street, does that look good? 
Or is that the one you wanted? Well, Siri, since I already gave you the street 
name of the store name, and I know there is only one such on that street, why 
don't you just give me the phone number I asked for in the first place? Google 
does this and so does Alexa. But good old Siri still can't get this right even 
in iOS 11. Come on Apple. This is pretty elementary stuff. What the hell did 
you do with all your work on Siri, anyway? Have other people found improvements 
to Siri in the real world? I know it can do all sorts of music trivia about 
which I care not. But what about real world situations? You know, like when you 
want a phone number and don't want to engage in meaningless back-and-forth with 
your so called Assistant?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Reading one's own responses in longer message threads

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I think what's happening here is due to G-Mail then.  When using Google Mail, 
messages sent to groups that you are a member of are not sent back to you.  If 
you used a different mail service, such as iCloud, your messages would be 
returned to you and thus be included in the thread, unless you deleted them.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 08:43, Michael Busboom  wrote:

Thanks, Tim.

Unfortunately, ‚Include related messages‘ was already checked, so there must be 
something else happening.

Take care and thanks again,

Mike

> On 23 Sep 2017, at 16:32, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Try checking the box to include related messages.  This setting is found in 
> Mail Prefs, under the Viewing tab, way down at the bottom.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 23, 2017, at 08:27, Michael Busboom  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> One of the things I enjoy about Apple Mail is the ability to sort, expand and 
> collapse conversations quite easily.  However, I am wondering if there is a 
> way to get the program to also include my own responses in a longer thread.  
> I see everybody els’es contributions to a conversation,but it would really be 
> nice if my own responses were also displayed.  Is there a way to make this 
> happen?
> 
> Thanks and have a great weekend,
> 
> Mike
> messages by 
> 
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Re: Reading one's own responses in longer message threads

[Michael Busboom]

Thanks, Tim.

Unfortunately, ‚Include related messages‘ was already checked, so there must be 
something else happening.

Take care and thanks again,

Mike

> On 23 Sep 2017, at 16:32, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Try checking the box to include related messages.  This setting is found in 
> Mail Prefs, under the Viewing tab, way down at the bottom.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 23, 2017, at 08:27, Michael Busboom  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> One of the things I enjoy about Apple Mail is the ability to sort, expand and 
> collapse conversations quite easily.  However, I am wondering if there is a 
> way to get the program to also include my own responses in a longer thread.  
> I see everybody els’es contributions to a conversation,but it would really be 
> nice if my own responses were also displayed.  Is there a way to make this 
> happen?
> 
> Thanks and have a great weekend,
> 
> Mike
> messages by 
> 
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Re: Reading one's own responses in longer message threads

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Try checking the box to include related messages.  This setting is found in 
Mail Prefs, under the Viewing tab, way down at the bottom.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 23, 2017, at 08:27, Michael Busboom  wrote:

Hello everyone,

One of the things I enjoy about Apple Mail is the ability to sort, expand and 
collapse conversations quite easily.  However, I am wondering if there is a way 
to get the program to also include my own responses in a longer thread.  I see 
everybody els’es contributions to a conversation,but it would really be nice if 
my own responses were also displayed.  Is there a way to make this happen?

Thanks and have a great weekend,

Mike
messages by 

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Reading one's own responses in longer message threads

[Michael Busboom]

Hello everyone,

One of the things I enjoy about Apple Mail is the ability to sort, expand and 
collapse conversations quite easily.  However, I am wondering if there is a way 
to get the program to also include my own responses in a longer thread.  I see 
everybody els’es contributions to a conversation,but it would really be nice if 
my own responses were also displayed.  Is there a way to make this happen?

Thanks and have a great weekend,

Mike
 messages by 

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Re: VO Not Announcing Selected Text In Pages

[Ian Robinson]

Hi Anne,

Thanks for the confirmation.  It is sort of reassuring to know that the issue 
isn’t just with my machine.

Best wishes.

Ian

> On 22 Sep 2017, at 07:29, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello Ian,
> 
> I’m having exactly the same problem. Very annoying!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
>> On 21 Sep 2017, at 15:14, Ian Robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I’ve just installed the latest Pages this morning, version 6.3 (5046) and 
>> VoiceOver no longer announces text as it is selected.
>> 
>> Is anyone else noticing the same issue?
>> 
>> VO+F6 does still announce the selected text.
>> 
>> Regards.
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> 
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