subject:"My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back"

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-10 Thread Scott Granados

So at my employer we have a unix front end which is what we used to work with a 
domain controller that was managed by another team.  I did not however set it 
up but if there is any interest I can get a copy of the confluence articles we 
have documenting the processes and tools.


> On Jul 10, 2016, at 4:59 AM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
> 
> LDAP tools isn't really going to help though in a domain environment, We have 
> Active directory for domain based authentication but in other situations our 
> LDAP authentication is through an Oracle based system.
> 
> The unix or linux based services aren't really goiog to help in these 
> situation.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Sunday, 10 July 2016 1:16 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> Simon, you want to look towards the unix tools for this type of thing.  the 
> Open LDAP stuff along with SMB4 aught to be able to help here.  Aught to be 
> able to edit LDAP Schema that way with the Open LDAP browser etc.  I try to 
> stay away from this windows stuff but I’ve seen a lot recently for complete 
> domain controller replacements with Linux and interaction with the databases 
> etc.
> 
>> On Jul 8, 2016, at 6:59 AM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Sandy mark and others,
>> 
>> Yeah the mac is great for being able to run a bootcamp or dual boot system.
>> 
>> As a power user of the windows environment I need to have it with me where 
>> ever I go, at least that is my reason for always having my notebook with me.
>> 
>> But apple also now allow you through or with vm fusion to run mac os 
>> vms which you can't do on a windows machine,  The mac os and voiceover allow 
>> for the same usage of the touch pad on a notebook such as my mac book air to 
>> be used like I use my iPhone touch screan.
>> 
>> What I am currently looking for though is an app for my mac book air on the 
>> mac OSX side that will allow me to interact with an active directory domain 
>> inferstructure  doing such things as group creation adding and  removing 
>> users setting up and changing computers and possibly some work with Group 
>> policies in some OU's for the organisation.
>> 
>> But at this point I appear to be pushing things a bit.
>> 
>> Does anyone know of any OSX apps that will allow this kind of access to a 
>> domain inferstructure?
>> 
>> Cheers.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sandi Jazmin 
>> Kruse
>> Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:10 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> hi, Mark, beautifully put. Joseph. my idea is make an evening , find out 
>> what do people need, and take it from there.
>> As Mark says though having both windows and mac is not a bad idea, i use 
>> windows for scanning and reading if i need to read fast.
>> For all of you who have a mac and have problems with them, write write 
>> write. it is what the list is made for, and remember , the only stupid 
>> questions are the once not asked.
>> Sandi
>> 
>> On 7/7/16, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>>> Hello Arnold,
>>> 
>>> Like so many others, I have been following this thread.  Why?  
>>> Because, you remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my 
>>> Mac journey.  This is to say, even after owning an iPhone for some 
>>> time, I found that learning how to use a Mac, via VoiceOver, 
>>> extremely frustrating, at first--especially given my then expertise with 
>>> Jaws for Windows.
>>> 
>>> There are many reasons why people explore new paths.  For some, they 
>>> merely wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to 
>>> themselves that they can do it.  Still others explore new paths out 
>>> of frustration with the status quo.  My point is that, why, one does 
>>> something can, in many instances directly affect the outcome of the 
>>> exploration, itself.
>>> 
>>> In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac 
>>> because I was completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering 
>>> that they deliberately removed the self-voicing installation feature 
>>> that shipped with the first beta release of Windows 7.  I had a copy 
>>> of that particular beta wh

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-10 Thread Scott Granados

One time use buddy.:)


> On Jul 10, 2016, at 4:57 AM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
> 
> Yeah scott, but paper plates get wet when you wash them.
>  
> Lol.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Sunday, 10 July 2016 1:13 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>  
> Cheap solution to this whole problem… Paper plates.
>  
> Paper plates are the best or really plastic laminated paper plates.:)
>  
> On Jul 8, 2016, at 8:17 AM, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com 
> <mailto:meikle.ai...@btinternet.com>> wrote:
>  
> Hi Simon.
>  
> I find your generosity astonishing my friend.  Do you not think it would be 
> cheeper getting a house-cleaner rather than spend all that lovely cash flying 
> me over and ofcourse accomodating me in a five star hotel, from Scotland, 
> just to wash your dishes.  This must be the height of lazyness!
>  
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: Simon Fogarty <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 11:34 AM
> Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>  
> Andy,
>  
> Could you come and clean my dishs for me when you’ve finished your’s?
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Andy
> Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:57 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>  
> Hi Arnold.
>  
> I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?
> I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  That's 
> the way I like it!
>  
> I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
> every new experience and see this learning experience as an important 
> milestone in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it 
> aint!
>  
>  
> I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member 
> of this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm 
> a happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
> importantly, I'll enjoy it!
>  
> Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
> different!
>  
> Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.
>  
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
>  
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: Katie Zodrow <mailto:kzodrow...@att.net>
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>  
> Hi Arnold.
> That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
> continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
> won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
> Katie
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com 
> <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
> 
> Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, I 
> am checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one back 
> the end of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
> - Original Message - 
> From: Simon Fogarty <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
> Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>  
> Hi arnld,
> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple os.
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. 
> My information that I wou

RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-10 Thread Simon Fogarty

LDAP tools isn't really going to help though in a domain environment, We have 
Active directory for domain based authentication but in other situations our 
LDAP authentication is through an Oracle based system.

 The unix or linux based services aren't really goiog to help in these 
situation.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Sunday, 10 July 2016 1:16 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Simon, you want to look towards the unix tools for this type of thing.  the 
Open LDAP stuff along with SMB4 aught to be able to help here.  Aught to be 
able to edit LDAP Schema that way with the Open LDAP browser etc.  I try to 
stay away from this windows stuff but I’ve seen a lot recently for complete 
domain controller replacements with Linux and interaction with the databases 
etc.

> On Jul 8, 2016, at 6:59 AM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
> 
> Sandy mark and others,
> 
> Yeah the mac is great for being able to run a bootcamp or dual boot system.
> 
> As a power user of the windows environment I need to have it with me where 
> ever I go, at least that is my reason for always having my notebook with me.
> 
>  But apple also now allow you through or with vm fusion to run mac os 
> vms which you can't do on a windows machine,  The mac os and voiceover allow 
> for the same usage of the touch pad on a notebook such as my mac book air to 
> be used like I use my iPhone touch screan.
> 
>  What I am currently looking for though is an app for my mac book air on the 
> mac OSX side that will allow me to interact with an active directory domain 
> inferstructure  doing such things as group creation adding and  removing 
> users setting up and changing computers and possibly some work with Group 
> policies in some OU's for the organisation.
> 
> But at this point I appear to be pushing things a bit.
> 
> Does anyone know of any OSX apps that will allow this kind of access to a 
> domain inferstructure?
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sandi Jazmin 
> Kruse
> Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:10 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> hi, Mark, beautifully put. Joseph. my idea is make an evening , find out what 
> do people need, and take it from there.
> As Mark says though having both windows and mac is not a bad idea, i use 
> windows for scanning and reading if i need to read fast.
> For all of you who have a mac and have problems with them, write write write. 
> it is what the list is made for, and remember , the only stupid questions are 
> the once not asked.
> Sandi
> 
> On 7/7/16, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>> Hello Arnold,
>> 
>> Like so many others, I have been following this thread.  Why?  
>> Because, you remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my 
>> Mac journey.  This is to say, even after owning an iPhone for some 
>> time, I found that learning how to use a Mac, via VoiceOver, 
>> extremely frustrating, at first--especially given my then expertise with 
>> Jaws for Windows.
>> 
>> There are many reasons why people explore new paths.  For some, they 
>> merely wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to 
>> themselves that they can do it.  Still others explore new paths out 
>> of frustration with the status quo.  My point is that, why, one does 
>> something can, in many instances directly affect the outcome of the 
>> exploration, itself.
>> 
>> In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac 
>> because I was completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering 
>> that they deliberately removed the self-voicing installation feature 
>> that shipped with the first beta release of Windows 7.  I had a copy 
>> of that particular beta which, via Narrator, offered a flawlessly 
>> comprehensive installation experience for a totally blind user.  It 
>> never crossed my mind that they would pull that feature in subsequent 
>> beta releases which, as it turned out, they did.
>> 
>> I can still remember the rage I felt when one of the Microsoft 
>> talking heads, up in Redland, told me, via telephone, that they 
>> pulled the feature as a result of security concerns.  Even as I write 
>> this, reliving the experience in my mind, my blood begins to proverbially 
>> boil.
>> 
>> But I digress.
>> 
>> My point is that after that phone call, I went directly to my local 
>> Mac store and pu

RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-10 Thread Simon Fogarty

Yeah scott, but paper plates get wet when you wash them.

Lol.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Sunday, 10 July 2016 1:13 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Cheap solution to this whole problem… Paper plates.

Paper plates are the best or really plastic laminated paper plates.:)

On Jul 8, 2016, at 8:17 AM, Andy 
<meikle.ai...@btinternet.com<mailto:meikle.ai...@btinternet.com>> wrote:

Hi Simon.

I find your generosity astonishing my friend.  Do you not think it would be 
cheeper getting a house-cleaner rather than spend all that lovely cash flying 
me over and ofcourse accomodating me in a five star hotel, from Scotland, just 
to wash your dishes.  This must be the height of lazyness!

- Original Message -
From: Simon Fogarty<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Andy,

Could you come and clean my dishs for me when you’ve finished your’s?

From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
 On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi Arnold.

I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?
I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  That's 
the way I like it!

I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
every new experience and see this learning experience as an important milestone 
in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it aint!

I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member of 
this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm a 
happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
importantly, I'll enjoy it!

Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
different!

Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.

Very best wishes.
Andy.

- Original Message -
From: Katie Zodrow<mailto:kzodrow...@att.net>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi Arnold.
That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
Katie
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt 
<arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, I am 
checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one back the end 
of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message -
From: Simon Fogarty<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi arnld,
Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple os.
From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
 On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com<mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com<mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt 
<arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two weeks, 
concerning my Mac Mini.  How

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-09 Thread Scott Granados

Arnold, I would agree with your assessment of the iPhones and phones in general.

I’ve been using cell phones since the analog days but it wasn’t until Mobile 
speak I really used one and I remember how life changing it was to be able to 
text and use the same phone as my sited friends.  You make a very good point.


> On Jul 6, 2016, at 12:52 PM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> I got an iPhone 5 in October, 2012, and now have an iPhone 6.   I consider 
> them to be the most life changing pieces of electronics I have ever bought. I 
> wanted to try this Mac Mini,   and am willing to give a Mac another attempt 
> in the future.
> 
> Arnold Schmidt
> - Original Message - From: "christopher hallsworth" 
> <challswor...@icloud.com>
> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> 
> I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you can 
> spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being tied to 
> any sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod Touch 4th 
> Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone 4. To date, I 
> have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini 2. I have other 
> Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for now. I would highly 
> recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before trying an iPhone. Just my 
> £0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.
>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, 
>> and the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.
>> 
>> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
>> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
>> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
>> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
>> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
>> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   
>> By no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I 
>> should have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am 
>> not opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind 
>> of cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to 
>> get it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.
>> 
>> Arnold Schmidt
>>> - Original Message - From: Scott Granados
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>> 
>>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
>>> weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such 
>>> a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of 
>>> computer experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I 
>>> remember the first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like 
>>> learning a language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and 
>>> drabs, the only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning 
>>> French I’d head to France and plop down in the middle of the country where 
>>> i didn’t have a choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a 
>>> new operating system you have to cut your self off from the old. You have 
>>> to build up all new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 
>>> you kept issuing windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing 
>>> problems not for anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and 
>>> have built up years of muscle memory for commands in Windows.
>>> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even 
>>> in your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not 
>>> sure why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, 
>>> telling your self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up 
>>> to your expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t 
>>> limit yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating 
>>> system like a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the 
>>> box, won’t cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out 
>>> otherdistractions lik

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-09 Thread Scott Granados

I don’t think you have to be that careful although you may be right in your 
source of the issue.

Stick to the app store, that’s pretty good and reputable sites.  Downloading is 
ok just make sure you know what you’re downloading or if you’re unsure do what 
you’re doing and stick to the app store.  Sounds like you’re making good 
progress.

> On Jul 7, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Saqib Hussain <saqib1...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi. After my issues with the keyboard freezing! I’ve had my Mac Mini replaced 
> and I could of asked for a refund when I went to the Apple store yesterday 
> but I wanted to give the OS the benefit of the doubt and got a replacement 
> and It’s been working well since I had set it up again yesterday evening. I’m 
> learning commands because I’m using programs like the mail client everyday 
> and Ive been making mental notes of them as well. I don’t know whether you 
> can install software from the internet without risking infecting the OS with 
> a virus but I did download RS Games which was very buggy and Skype and my 
> theory is that may have been the cause of the keyboard freezing in edit boxes 
> periodically.  I’m not ever going  to download anything from the internet 
> again. If I want to listen to an audio file! I will stream it on another 
> device. 
>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 17:52, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I got an iPhone 5 in October, 2012, and now have an iPhone 6.   I consider 
>> them to be the most life changing pieces of electronics I have ever bought. 
>> I wanted to try this Mac Mini,   and am willing to give a Mac another 
>> attempt in the future.
>> 
>> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message - From: "christopher hallsworth" 
>> <challswor...@icloud.com>
>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> 
>> I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you can 
>> spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being tied to 
>> any sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod Touch 4th 
>> Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone 4. To date, 
>> I have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini 2. I have other 
>> Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for now. I would highly 
>> recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before trying an iPhone. Just my 
>> £0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.
>>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, 
>>> and the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.
>>> 
>>> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
>>> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
>>> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
>>> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
>>> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
>>> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   
>>> By no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I 
>>> should have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am 
>>> not opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind 
>>> of cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to 
>>> get it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.
>>> 
>>> Arnold Schmidt
>>>> - Original Message - From: Scott Granados
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>>> 
>>>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 
>>>> 2 weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake 
>>>> such a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of 
>>>> computer experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I 
>>>> remember the first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like 
>>>> learning a language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and 
>>>> drabs, the only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning 
>>>> French I’d head to France and plop down in the middle of the country where 
>>

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-09 Thread Scott Granados

Something freezing for 10 minutes is just wrong.  It’s not acceptable anywhere 
so you know something is gravely wrong with that specific setup.

> On Jul 7, 2016, at 8:45 AM, Saqib Hussain <saqib1...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Mine is connected to a 40 inch TV with HDMI cable.   The keyboard freezing 
> would last up to 10 minutes  that sort of behaviour is just not acceptable 
> especially when we pay so much for these devices. 
> 
>> On 7 Jul 2016, at 13:03, Sandi Jazmin Kruse <sandi1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> if you are on a mini, with no monitor connected, it is normal
>> behavior. mine does this sometimes as well.
>> 
>>> On 7/7/16, Saqib Hussain <saqib1...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> Hi. After my issues with the keyboard freezing! I’ve had my Mac Mini
>>> replaced and I could of asked for a refund when I went to the Apple store
>>> yesterday but I wanted to give the OS the benefit of the doubt and got a
>>> replacement and It’s been working well since I had set it up again yesterday
>>> evening. I’m learning commands because I’m using programs like the mail
>>> client everyday and Ive been making mental notes of them as well. I don’t
>>> know whether you can install software from the internet without risking
>>> infecting the OS with a virus but I did download RS Games which was very
>>> buggy and Skype and my theory is that may have been the cause of the
>>> keyboard freezing in edit boxes periodically.  I’m not ever going  to
>>> download anything from the internet again. If I want to listen to an audio
>>> file! I will stream it on another device.
>>>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 17:52, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I got an iPhone 5 in October, 2012, and now have an iPhone 6.   I consider
>>>> them to be the most life changing pieces of electronics I have ever
>>>> bought. I wanted to try this Mac Mini,   and am willing to give a Mac
>>>> another attempt in the future.
>>>> 
>>>> Arnold Schmidt
>>>> - Original Message - From: "christopher hallsworth"
>>>> <challswor...@icloud.com>
>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:18 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you
>>>> can spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being
>>>> tied to any sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod
>>>> Touch 4th Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone
>>>> 4. To date, I have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini
>>>> 2. I have other Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for
>>>> now. I would highly recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before
>>>> trying an iPhone. Just my £0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.
>>>>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility,
>>>>> and the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem
>>>>> to get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because
>>>>> they just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By
>>>>> then, they have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big
>>>>> cancellation fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money
>>>>> invested in something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto
>>>>> eventually.   By no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday,
>>>>> but I think I should have been getting it, a little more than I was by
>>>>> the deadline. I am not opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will
>>>>> have to be some kind of cheaper alternative, though, until I feel
>>>>> confident that I am going to get it.  I wish Apple had given me more
>>>>> time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arnold Schmidt
>>>>>> - Original Message - From: Scott Granados
>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-09 Thread Scott Granados

Arnold, you make two very good points.

Learning a new OS is very much like learning a new language.  I am a believer 
of full emersion for languages so take that or leave it but if I were to do it 
again I would do what I did and just force myself to use it much like moving to 
Spain and being forced to speak Spanish.

Also, lucky for me learning the mac was work justifiable so I could use some of 
that paid time to do the transition.  I can appreciate how much of a blessing 
that was in my case.  You do your long work day, come home and then work hard 
at learning a new system.  That’s good ol drive for you.  I like that.

> On Jul 7, 2016, at 1:05 PM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> I have been thinking about this for several days.  As one coming from 
> Windows, having used windows since I got my windows 98 computer in 2000, 
> learning to use the mac is like learning a whole new language.  I know what I 
> want to do, but how to do it is almost totally different.  Hey, control c 
> copies something and control v pastes it, they have that in common.  But I 
> have come up with the best reason yet for me to get some used equipment and 
> learn to do it.  Even if I come to the conclusion that there really isn't a 
> whole lot I can do, in all caps, BETTER on the mac than in windows, I learned 
> to do it, and will be able to speak? mac as well as windows.  That is a 
> pretty good reason to do it.  I admit, I probably wouldn't bother if I didn't 
> have my iPhone, which apparently works a little better in Mac iTunes, than in 
> windows iTunes.  We'll see, eventually. Now, if I just didn't have to work 40 
> hours a week, becoming proficient in mac would happen sooner. This was one of 
> my vacation weeks.
> 
> Arnold Schmidt
> - Original Message - From: "Kimber Gardner" 
> <kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com>
> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 7:21 AM
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> 
> I'm not Arnold so can't presume to answer for him, but I found myself
> in a similar situation several years ago when I bought a MacAir.
> Despite multiple attempts to learn the new operating system, I found
> myself frustrated at nearly every turn. Now I've been an IT
> professional for thirty years, working all that time in the windows
> environment, still I found the learning curve extremely daunting.
> 
> I've read this thread with great interest and I think the many
> comments about total immersion while learning may have been the root
> of my own failure with the Mac. Because I became frustrated in my
> attempts to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like reading and
> answering email), I frequently switched back to windows to do what I
> needed to do. Consequently I lost whatever ground I had gained in the
> Mac universe.
> 
> This is my rather long way of saying that while installing bootcamp on
> a Mac may seem like no big deal to you (or anyone who is comfortable
> with the Mac), for me that task seems like a mountain the size of
> Everest. I suspect Arnold may feel the same.
> 
> Unlike Arnold I kept my Mac and still return to it from time to time.
> I've been a devoted Apple user on the mobile platform for several
> years and there is something that brings me back to the Mac again and
> again. It may be just that I don't like to admit failure in the face
> of any technology. I don't really know. About the only method I
> haven't tried is one on one training. That may be my next (and
> possibly final) step.
> 
> Kimber
> 
> On 7/7/16, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
>> Hi arnld,
>> 
>> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>> 
>> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple
>> os.
>> 
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
>> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free
>> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles.
>> My information that I would like you to have been say is below in my
>> signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I
>> will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't
>> work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for
>> Arnold this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still free to use
>> interviews my information in my signature as well as you wish.
>> Joseph Hudson
>&

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-09 Thread Scott Granados

Arnold, good man, I like your sticktuitiveness to use an over used business 
made up word.:)

I’m sorry if my initial response was overly harsh I was just responding to what 
I saw and being completely honest which especially with the lack of tone in 
emails can come off really the wrong way.

No matter what you do you know what’s best for you.  I’m glad you re going to 
give it another shot and you’re in the right place to get the help you need.  I 
absolutely wish you nothing but success and do keep posting your impressions 
and questions.  Also don’t take anything I say personally, I can be overly 
direct but I do have respect for you especially now with your desire to keep on 
slugging away and I do know the complexity of the undertaking you’re involved 
with.

Good luck!
 

> On Jul 7, 2016, at 12:54 PM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, I 
> am checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one back 
> the end of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Simon Fogarty <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
>> Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Hi arnld,
>>  
>> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>>  
>> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple 
>> os.
>>  
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
>> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>  
>> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
>> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. 
>> My information that I would like you to have been say is below in my 
>> signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I 
>> will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't 
>> work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for 
>> Arnold this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still free to use 
>> interviews my information in my signature as well as you wish.
>> Joseph Hudson
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com <mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89 facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 
>> <https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404>
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 <https://twitter.com/josephhudson89> 
>>  
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com <mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
>>  
>>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com 
>>> <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
>>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
>>> all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>>>  
>>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
>>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn 
>>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
>>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
>>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in 
>>> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real 
>>> benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install 
>>> the OS myself.  
>>>  
>>> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending 
>>> to put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit 
>>> trip to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  
>>> So, I decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  
>>> I successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but 
>>> then, no matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security 
>>> question it wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on 
>

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-09 Thread Scott Granados

Kawal, very well stated.

Only thing I’d say and it’s not so much apple related but more life related, I 
know it may be easy to say but don’t fear failure.  Treat failure like another 
data point.  The very successful fail a lot they just adjust, move on and take 
another swing.  Use that failure to add to your experience.  

I’ve started a bunch of businesses, guess what, the first few failed wildly.  I 
had a mentor at one point who told me that I should expect that my first at 
least 3 businesses would eventually fail but each attempt would grow easier 
from experience.  I know it’s easy to get down and have failure work against 
you and rob you of confidence but just remember, emotion especially in business 
but really in all things is just a result.  Go ahead and fail but study why you 
failed, learn from it, thank the process and move on.  Failure can be a better 
teacher than success almost always.

Keep on failing because eventually you’ll succeed.  The Bard put it much better 
than I did but it’s true.
 
> On Jul 7, 2016, at 4:22 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> Just been reading this thread with interest as I rarely post to this list due 
> to time etc.
> 
> 
> I like the last person who said, that they would learn the Mac slowly and not 
> hurry.  If you all think of it this way.
> 
> Learning something new takes time and it’s like learning a new musical 
> instrument.
> 
> Two years ago, I started learning the flute.  For me that has been a 
> demanding instrument and last year as I felt I was getting no where, I 
> thought about giving it up.  I was really depressed as that made me feel that 
> I was a failure.  However, I told myself that giving this up would be a 
> failure as I had invested in getting a flute.  So this year, I’m much better 
> at it and am now going to work towards my Grade 3 examination.
> 
> I’ve been using the Mac since 2010 and for a week, I had a dear friend who 
> was patient.  He taught me the basics and I learnt in a week the mac basics.
> 
> These days I’m no expert and there are lots of things I don’t know about the 
> Mac.  However it doesn’t bother me that I’m no expert because whilst I’m a 
> Window user at work, at home I use the Mac and slowly I pick things up.  I 
> use to get upset if I couldn’t work something but the older I get, I don’t 
> let things bother me so much.
> 
> The worst happened to me two years ago and my life was almost ruined.  
> Nothing can hurt me now as I won’t let it and as long as I can work the Mac 
> to get on the Internet as that is my main priority, nothing really matters.  
> I know enough to sort out my internet needs as I live alone  and have a few 
> friends who will help me if I can’t do something.  I am much better on the 
> Macs these days.  I was going to use Windows on VM and although I have an 
> up-to-date VM, I’ve not installed windows.  I like it that whilst at home, I 
> exclusively use the Mac and at work I need to use Windows.  But I’m not so 
> good with jaws anymore but as long as I can do my day job, nothing really 
> worries me.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 7 Jul 2016, at 20:56, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com 
>> <mailto:meikle.ai...@btinternet.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Arnold.
>>  
>> I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?   
>>  I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  
>> That's the way I like it!
>>  
>> I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
>> every new experience and see this learning experience as an important 
>> milestone in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it 
>> aint!
>>  
>>  
>> I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member 
>> of this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm 
>> a happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
>> importantly, I'll enjoy it!
>>  
>> Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
>> different!
>>  
>> Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.
>>  
>> Very best wishes.
>> Andy.
>>  
>>  
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: Katie Zodrow <mailto:kzodrow...@att.net>
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>> 
>>> Hi Arnold.
>>> That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
>>> continue  learning the OS some more on your days off

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-09 Thread Scott Granados

Mark, I’m fuming reading this.  Microsoft removed such an option and it really 
worked?  Do you know how many blind technologists that limitation makes their 
jobs difficult?  I suspect you do that’s probably one of the reasons you found 
that upsetting like I do.

I also did not know this feature existed.  Thank you for pointing it out.  I 
have yet another reason to not like Microsoft.  I too think that security 
response is just laughable.  Since when has Microsoft given a you know what 
about security?  Sounds like a bogus response to me. Something to shut you up 
because who wants to mess with security. Sometimes i wish Redmond would just 
fall in to the sea and do us all a favor.

Ah well,

BTW +1 on the rest of your comments, very well said.


> On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:38 PM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hello Arnold,
> 
> Like so many others, I have been following this thread.  Why?  Because, you 
> remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my Mac journey.  This is 
> to say, even after owning an iPhone for some time, I found that learning how 
> to use a Mac, via VoiceOver, extremely frustrating, at first--especially 
> given my then expertise with Jaws for Windows.
> 
> There are many reasons why people explore new paths.  For some, they merely 
> wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to themselves that 
> they can do it.  Still others explore new paths out of frustration with the 
> status quo.  My point is that, why, one does something can, in many instances 
> directly affect the outcome of the exploration, itself.
> 
> In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac because I was 
> completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering that they deliberately 
> removed the self-voicing installation feature that shipped with the first 
> beta release of Windows 7.  I had a copy of that particular beta which, via 
> Narrator, offered a flawlessly comprehensive installation experience for a 
> totally blind user.  It never crossed my mind that they would pull that 
> feature in subsequent beta releases which, as it turned out, they did.
> 
> I can still remember the rage I felt when one of the Microsoft talking heads, 
> up in Redland, told me, via telephone, that they pulled the feature as a 
> result of security concerns.  Even as I write this, reliving the experience 
> in my mind, my blood begins to proverbially boil.
> 
> But I digress.
> 
> My point is that after that phone call, I went directly to my local Mac store 
> and purchased my first MacBook Pro.  As you can imagine, my primary 
> motivation for learning the Mac was because I was sick and tired of Microsoft 
> restricting installation access to its blind and low vision users--especially 
> given that they had proven that it could be done and that it could be done 
> well.
> 
> Having said all of this, let me add that, despite the opinions of many, the 
> Macintosh is not for everyone or not better in all situations.
> 
> Windows is a fine operating system and Jaws, Window Eyes, Zoomtext, etc are 
> all marvelous accessibility tools.
> 
> Generally speaking, I think it's best to learn how to use both Windows and 
> Mac OS.  Financial limitations notwithstanding, there is no need to choose 
> one over the other.
> 
> I want to applaud your effort in exploring the Macintosh.  Do not be 
> disappointed in yourself; you will learn what you need to know when you need 
> to know it.  That's just the way the universe works, in my opinion.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Arnold Schmidt
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 10:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> I have been thinking about this for several days.  As one coming from 
> Windows, having used windows since I got my windows 98 computer in 2000, 
> learning to use the mac is like learning a whole new language.  I know what I 
> want to do, but how to do it is almost totally different.  Hey, control c 
> copies something and control v pastes it, they have that in common.  But I 
> have come up with the best reason yet for me to get some used equipment and 
> learn to do it.  Even if I come to the conclusion that there really isn't a 
> whole lot I can do, in all caps, BETTER on the mac than in windows, I learned 
> to do it, and will be able to speak? mac as well as windows.  That is a 
> pretty good reason to do it.  I admit, I probably wouldn't bother if I didn't 
> have my iPhone, which apparently works a little better in Mac iTunes, than in 
> windows iTunes.  We'll see, eventually. Now, if I just didn't have to work 40 
> hours a week,

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-09 Thread Scott Granados

Simon, you want to look towards the unix tools for this type of thing.  the 
Open LDAP stuff along with SMB4 aught to be able to help here.  Aught to be 
able to edit LDAP Schema that way with the Open LDAP browser etc.  I try to 
stay away from this windows stuff but I’ve seen a lot recently for complete 
domain controller replacements with Linux and interaction with the databases 
etc.

> On Jul 8, 2016, at 6:59 AM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
> 
> Sandy mark and others,
> 
> Yeah the mac is great for being able to run a bootcamp or dual boot system.
> 
> As a power user of the windows environment I need to have it with me where 
> ever I go, at least that is my reason for always having my notebook with me.
> 
>  But apple also now allow you through or with vm fusion to run mac os vms 
> which you can't do on a windows machine,
>  The mac os and voiceover allow for the same usage of the touch pad on a 
> notebook such as my mac book air to be used like I use my iPhone touch screan.
> 
>  What I am currently looking for though is an app for my mac book air on the 
> mac OSX side that will allow me to interact with an active directory domain 
> inferstructure  doing such things as group creation adding and  removing 
> users setting up and changing computers and possibly some work with Group 
> policies in some OU's for the organisation.
> 
> But at this point I appear to be pushing things a bit.
> 
> Does anyone know of any OSX apps that will allow this kind of access to a 
> domain inferstructure?
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sandi Jazmin Kruse
> Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:10 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> hi, Mark, beautifully put. Joseph. my idea is make an evening , find out what 
> do people need, and take it from there.
> As Mark says though having both windows and mac is not a bad idea, i use 
> windows for scanning and reading if i need to read fast.
> For all of you who have a mac and have problems with them, write write write. 
> it is what the list is made for, and remember , the only stupid questions are 
> the once not asked.
> Sandi
> 
> On 7/7/16, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>> Hello Arnold,
>> 
>> Like so many others, I have been following this thread.  Why?  
>> Because, you remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my Mac 
>> journey.  This is to say, even after owning an iPhone for some time, I 
>> found that learning how to use a Mac, via VoiceOver, extremely 
>> frustrating, at first--especially given my then expertise with Jaws for 
>> Windows.
>> 
>> There are many reasons why people explore new paths.  For some, they 
>> merely wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to 
>> themselves that they can do it.  Still others explore new paths out of 
>> frustration with the status quo.  My point is that, why, one does 
>> something can, in many instances directly affect the outcome of the 
>> exploration, itself.
>> 
>> In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac 
>> because I was completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering 
>> that they deliberately removed the self-voicing installation feature 
>> that shipped with the first beta release of Windows 7.  I had a copy 
>> of that particular beta which, via Narrator, offered a flawlessly 
>> comprehensive installation experience for a totally blind user.  It 
>> never crossed my mind that they would pull that feature in subsequent 
>> beta releases which, as it turned out, they did.
>> 
>> I can still remember the rage I felt when one of the Microsoft talking 
>> heads, up in Redland, told me, via telephone, that they pulled the 
>> feature as a result of security concerns.  Even as I write this, 
>> reliving the experience in my mind, my blood begins to proverbially boil.
>> 
>> But I digress.
>> 
>> My point is that after that phone call, I went directly to my local 
>> Mac store and purchased my first MacBook Pro.  As you can imagine, my 
>> primary motivation for learning the Mac was because I was sick and 
>> tired of Microsoft restricting installation access to its blind and 
>> low vision users--especially given that they had proven that it could 
>> be done and that it could be done well.
>> 
>> Having said all of this, let me add that, despite the opinions of 
>> many, the Macintosh is not for everyone or not better in all situations.
>> 
>> Windows is a fine operating system and J

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-09 Thread Scott Granados

Cheap solution to this whole problem… Paper plates.

Paper plates are the best or really plastic laminated paper plates.:)

> On Jul 8, 2016, at 8:17 AM, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon.
>  
> I find your generosity astonishing my friend.  Do you not think it would be 
> cheeper getting a house-cleaner rather than spend all that lovely cash flying 
> me over and ofcourse accomodating me in a five star hotel, from Scotland, 
> just to wash your dishes.  This must be the height of lazyness!
>  
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Simon Fogarty <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 11:34 AM
>> Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Andy,
>>  
>> Could you come and clean my dishs for me when you’ve finished your’s?
>>  
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Andy
>> Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:57 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>  
>> Hi Arnold.
>>  
>> I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?   
>>  I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  
>> That's the way I like it!
>>  
>> I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
>> every new experience and see this learning experience as an important 
>> milestone in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it 
>> aint!
>>  
>>  
>> I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member 
>> of this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm 
>> a happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
>> importantly, I'll enjoy it!
>>  
>> Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
>> different!
>>  
>> Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.
>>  
>> Very best wishes.
>> Andy.
>>  
>>  
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: Katie Zodrow <mailto:kzodrow...@att.net>
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>>  
>>> Hi Arnold.
>>> That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
>>> continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
>>> won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
>>> Katie
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com 
>>> <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, 
>>>> I am checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one 
>>>> back the end of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.
>>>>  
>>>> Arnold Schmidt
>>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>>> From: Simon Fogarty <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
>>>>> Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>>>>  
>>>>> Hi arnld,
>>>>> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>>>>> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the 
>>>>> apple os.
>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>>>> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
>>>>> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough 
>>>>>

RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-08 Thread Simon Fogarty

Sorry andy, must be some confusion, I said nothing about the flying you over 
and putting you in a 5 star hotel, infact I don’t think Dunedin has a 5 star 
hotel possibly even a 4 star for that matter.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 9 July 2016 12:17 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi Simon.

I find your generosity astonishing my friend.  Do you not think it would be 
cheeper getting a house-cleaner rather than spend all that lovely cash flying 
me over and ofcourse accomodating me in a five star hotel, from Scotland, just 
to wash your dishes.  This must be the height of lazyness!

- Original Message -
From: Simon Fogarty<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Andy,

Could you come and clean my dishs for me when you’ve finished your’s?

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi Arnold.

I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?
I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  That's 
the way I like it!

I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
every new experience and see this learning experience as an important milestone 
in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it aint!

I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member of 
this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm a 
happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
importantly, I'll enjoy it!

Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
different!

Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.

Very best wishes.
Andy.

- Original Message -
From: Katie Zodrow<mailto:kzodrow...@att.net>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi Arnold.
That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
Katie
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt 
<arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, I am 
checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one back the end 
of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message -
From: Simon Fogarty<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi arnld,
Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple os.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com<mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com<mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt 
<arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two weeks, 
concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
yesterday, which was my last day to return it.
To attempt to make a long me

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-08 Thread Joseph Hudson

Okay yeah sounds great I would not remind participating in a call dad has to do 
with doing that not a problem. Just let me know if you decide to do something 
like this. And I will be glad to help.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com <mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 
<https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404>
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com <mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
> On Jul 8, 2016, at 2:10 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse <sandi1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> hi, Mark, beautifully put. Joseph. my idea is make an evening , find
> out what do people need, and take it from there.
> As Mark says though having both windows and mac is not a bad idea, i
> use windows for scanning and reading if i need to read fast.
> For all of you who have a mac and have problems with them, write write
> write. it is what the list is made for, and remember , the only stupid
> questions are the once not asked.
> Sandi
> 
> On 7/7/16, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>> Hello Arnold,
>> 
>> Like so many others, I have been following this thread.  Why?  Because, you
>> remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my Mac journey.  This is
>> to say, even after owning an iPhone for some time, I found that learning how
>> to use a Mac, via VoiceOver, extremely frustrating, at first--especially
>> given my then expertise with Jaws for Windows.
>> 
>> There are many reasons why people explore new paths.  For some, they merely
>> wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to themselves
>> that they can do it.  Still others explore new paths out of frustration with
>> the status quo.  My point is that, why, one does something can, in many
>> instances directly affect the outcome of the exploration, itself.
>> 
>> In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac because I
>> was completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering that they
>> deliberately removed the self-voicing installation feature that shipped with
>> the first beta release of Windows 7.  I had a copy of that particular beta
>> which, via Narrator, offered a flawlessly comprehensive installation
>> experience for a totally blind user.  It never crossed my mind that they
>> would pull that feature in subsequent beta releases which, as it turned out,
>> they did.
>> 
>> I can still remember the rage I felt when one of the Microsoft talking
>> heads, up in Redland, told me, via telephone, that they pulled the feature
>> as a result of security concerns.  Even as I write this, reliving the
>> experience in my mind, my blood begins to proverbially boil.
>> 
>> But I digress.
>> 
>> My point is that after that phone call, I went directly to my local Mac
>> store and purchased my first MacBook Pro.  As you can imagine, my primary
>> motivation for learning the Mac was because I was sick and tired of
>> Microsoft restricting installation access to its blind and low vision
>> users--especially given that they had proven that it could be done and that
>> it could be done well.
>> 
>> Having said all of this, let me add that, despite the opinions of many, the
>> Macintosh is not for everyone or not better in all situations.
>> 
>> Windows is a fine operating system and Jaws, Window Eyes, Zoomtext, etc are
>> all marvelous accessibility tools.
>> 
>> Generally speaking, I think it's best to learn how to use both Windows and
>> Mac OS.  Financial limitations notwithstanding, there is no need to choose
>> one over the other.
>> 
>> I want to applaud your effort in exploring the Macintosh.  Do not be
>> disappointed in yourself; you will learn what you need to know when you need
>> to know it.  That's just the way the universe works, in my opinion.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Arnold Schmidt
>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 10:06 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> I have been thinking about this for several days.  As one coming from
>> Windows, having used windows since I got my windows 98 computer in 2000,
>> learning to use the mac is like learning a whole new language.  I know what
>> I want to do, but how to do it is almost totally different.  Hey, control c
>> copies something and control v pastes it, they have that in common.  But I
>> have come up with the

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-08 Thread Andy

Hi Simon.

I find your generosity astonishing my friend.  Do you not think it would be 
cheeper getting a house-cleaner rather than spend all that lovely cash flying 
me over and ofcourse accomodating me in a five star hotel, from Scotland, just 
to wash your dishes.  This must be the height of lazyness!


  - Original Message - 
  From: Simon Fogarty 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 11:34 AM
  Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


  Andy,

   

  Could you come and clean my dishs for me when you’ve finished your’s?

   

  From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
  Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:57 AM
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

   

  Hi Arnold.

   

  I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?
I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  That's 
the way I like it!

   

  I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
every new experience and see this learning experience as an important milestone 
in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it aint!

   

   

  I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member 
of this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm a 
happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
importantly, I'll enjoy it!

   

  Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
different!

   

  Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.

   

  Very best wishes.

  Andy.

   

   

- Original Message - 

From: Katie Zodrow 

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM

Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

 

Hi Arnold.

That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
Katie
Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:

  Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other 
messages, I am checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new 
one back the end of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.

   

  Arnold Schmidt

- Original Message - 

From: Simon Fogarty 

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM

Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

 

Hi arnld,

Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?

That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the 
apple os.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.

Joseph Hudson

Email

jhud7...@gmail.com

I device support

Telephone

2543007667

Skype

joseph.hudson89 facebook

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404

Twitter

https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage

jhud7...@yahoo.com

  On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> 
wrote:

  I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past 
two weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  

  To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just 
wasn't getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would 
turn it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that 
I thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.  

  Being th

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-08 Thread Christopher-Mark Gilland

OSX Server will do a lot of this, but that said, I don't think it would 
integrade over to Active Directory Services on Windows, which it sounds like 
you need.


Yeah, this would be one reason to hold onto a Windows installation. 
Shruggs.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

clgillan...@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "Simon Fogarty" <si...@blinky-net.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 6:59 AM
Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


Sandy mark and others,

Yeah the mac is great for being able to run a bootcamp or dual boot system.

As a power user of the windows environment I need to have it with me where 
ever I go, at least that is my reason for always having my notebook with me.


 But apple also now allow you through or with vm fusion to run mac os vms 
which you can't do on a windows machine,
 The mac os and voiceover allow for the same usage of the touch pad on a 
notebook such as my mac book air to be used like I use my iPhone touch 
screan.


 What I am currently looking for though is an app for my mac book air on 
the mac OSX side that will allow me to interact with an active directory 
domain inferstructure  doing such things as group creation adding and 
removing users setting up and changing computers and possibly some work with 
Group policies in some OU's for the organisation.


But at this point I appear to be pushing things a bit.

Does anyone know of any OSX apps that will allow this kind of access to a 
domain inferstructure?


Cheers.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sandi Jazmin Kruse

Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:10 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

hi, Mark, beautifully put. Joseph. my idea is make an evening , find out 
what do people need, and take it from there.
As Mark says though having both windows and mac is not a bad idea, i use 
windows for scanning and reading if i need to read fast.
For all of you who have a mac and have problems with them, write write 
write. it is what the list is made for, and remember , the only stupid 
questions are the once not asked.

Sandi

On 7/7/16, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:

Hello Arnold,

Like so many others, I have been following this thread.  Why?
Because, you remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my Mac
journey.  This is to say, even after owning an iPhone for some time, I
found that learning how to use a Mac, via VoiceOver, extremely
frustrating, at first--especially given my then expertise with Jaws for 
Windows.


There are many reasons why people explore new paths.  For some, they
merely wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to
themselves that they can do it.  Still others explore new paths out of
frustration with the status quo.  My point is that, why, one does
something can, in many instances directly affect the outcome of the 
exploration, itself.


In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac
because I was completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering
that they deliberately removed the self-voicing installation feature
that shipped with the first beta release of Windows 7.  I had a copy
of that particular beta which, via Narrator, offered a flawlessly
comprehensive installation experience for a totally blind user.  It
never crossed my mind that they would pull that feature in subsequent
beta releases which, as it turned out, they did.

I can still remember the rage I felt when one of the Microsoft talking
heads, up in Redland, told me, via telephone, that they pulled the
feature as a result of security concerns.  Even as I write this,
reliving the experience in my mind, my blood begins to proverbially boil.

But I digress.

My point is that after that phone call, I went directly to my local
Mac store and purchased my first MacBook Pro.  As you can imagine, my
primary motivation for learning the Mac was because I was sick and
tired of Microsoft restricting installation access to its blind and
low vision users--especially given that they had proven that it could
be done and that it could be done well.

Having said all of this, let me add that, despite the opinions of
many, the Macintosh is not for everyone or not better in all situations.

Windows is a fine operating system and Jaws, Window Eyes, Zoomtext,
etc are all marvelous accessibility tools.

Generally speaking, I think it's best to learn how to use both Windows
and Mac OS.  Financial limitations notwithstanding, there is no need
to choose one over the other.

I want to applaud your effort in exploring the Macintosh.  Do not be
disappointed in yourself; you will learn what you need to know when
you need to know it.  That's just the way the universe works, in my 
opinion.


Mark

-Original Message-
From: mac

RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-08 Thread Simon Fogarty

Sandy mark and others,

 Yeah the mac is great for being able to run a bootcamp or dual boot system.

 As a power user of the windows environment I need to have it with me where 
ever I go, at least that is my reason for always having my notebook with me.

  But apple also now allow you through or with vm fusion to run mac os vms 
which you can't do on a windows machine,
  The mac os and voiceover allow for the same usage of the touch pad on a 
notebook such as my mac book air to be used like I use my iPhone touch screan.

  What I am currently looking for though is an app for my mac book air on the 
mac OSX side that will allow me to interact with an active directory domain 
inferstructure  doing such things as group creation adding and  removing users 
setting up and changing computers and possibly some work with Group policies in 
some OU's for the organisation.

 But at this point I appear to be pushing things a bit.

 Does anyone know of any OSX apps that will allow this kind of access to a 
domain inferstructure?

Cheers.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Sandi Jazmin Kruse
Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:10 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

hi, Mark, beautifully put. Joseph. my idea is make an evening , find out what 
do people need, and take it from there.
As Mark says though having both windows and mac is not a bad idea, i use 
windows for scanning and reading if i need to read fast.
For all of you who have a mac and have problems with them, write write write. 
it is what the list is made for, and remember , the only stupid questions are 
the once not asked.
Sandi

On 7/7/16, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
> Hello Arnold,
>
> Like so many others, I have been following this thread.  Why?  
> Because, you remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my Mac 
> journey.  This is to say, even after owning an iPhone for some time, I 
> found that learning how to use a Mac, via VoiceOver, extremely 
> frustrating, at first--especially given my then expertise with Jaws for 
> Windows.
>
> There are many reasons why people explore new paths.  For some, they 
> merely wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to 
> themselves that they can do it.  Still others explore new paths out of 
> frustration with the status quo.  My point is that, why, one does 
> something can, in many instances directly affect the outcome of the 
> exploration, itself.
>
> In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac 
> because I was completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering 
> that they deliberately removed the self-voicing installation feature 
> that shipped with the first beta release of Windows 7.  I had a copy 
> of that particular beta which, via Narrator, offered a flawlessly 
> comprehensive installation experience for a totally blind user.  It 
> never crossed my mind that they would pull that feature in subsequent 
> beta releases which, as it turned out, they did.
>
> I can still remember the rage I felt when one of the Microsoft talking 
> heads, up in Redland, told me, via telephone, that they pulled the 
> feature as a result of security concerns.  Even as I write this, 
> reliving the experience in my mind, my blood begins to proverbially boil.
>
> But I digress.
>
> My point is that after that phone call, I went directly to my local 
> Mac store and purchased my first MacBook Pro.  As you can imagine, my 
> primary motivation for learning the Mac was because I was sick and 
> tired of Microsoft restricting installation access to its blind and 
> low vision users--especially given that they had proven that it could 
> be done and that it could be done well.
>
> Having said all of this, let me add that, despite the opinions of 
> many, the Macintosh is not for everyone or not better in all situations.
>
> Windows is a fine operating system and Jaws, Window Eyes, Zoomtext, 
> etc are all marvelous accessibility tools.
>
> Generally speaking, I think it's best to learn how to use both Windows 
> and Mac OS.  Financial limitations notwithstanding, there is no need 
> to choose one over the other.
>
> I want to applaud your effort in exploring the Macintosh.  Do not be 
> disappointed in yourself; you will learn what you need to know when 
> you need to know it.  That's just the way the universe works, in my opinion.
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Arnold Schmidt
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 10:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>
> I have been thinking about this for several d

RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-08 Thread Simon Fogarty

Andy,

Could you come and clean my dishs for me when you’ve finished your’s?

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 7:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi Arnold.

I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?
I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  That's 
the way I like it!

I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
every new experience and see this learning experience as an important milestone 
in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it aint!

I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member of 
this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm a 
happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
importantly, I'll enjoy it!

Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
different!

Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.

Very best wishes.
Andy.

- Original Message -
From: Katie Zodrow<mailto:kzodrow...@att.net>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi Arnold.
That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
Katie
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt 
<arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, I am 
checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one back the end 
of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message -
From: Simon Fogarty<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi arnld,
Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple os.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com<mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com<mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt 
<arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two weeks, 
concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
yesterday, which was my last day to return it.
To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.
Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip to 
return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I decided 
to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I successfully 
passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no matter what I 
tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it wanted answered.  No 
problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac mini.  I could tell  the 
locati

RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-08 Thread Simon Fogarty

Hi Arnold,

 I like you work 40 hours per week, I work for an organisation that is 
primarily windows machine, however we do have a truck load of Mac users also.

  In the past 6 years I've gone from having no mac knowledge to now being a 
competent user to the point my boss comes to me to ask questions and he has 
been using macs for about 20 years.

 I reimage all my teams machines and have currently got a 2013 mac book air and 
2011 13 inch mac book pro sitting on my desk migrating data from the pro to the 
air via thunderbolt cable after I reimaged the air 

 I do this work myself and without sighted assistance 

I am currently typing this email on a mac book air 11 inch 2013  machine but a 
major bonus, I'm using windows 10 pro in boot camp.

 I am a windows power user including powershell and exchange plus active 
directory, 
 Windows is great but the mac does things windows doesn't allow such as having 
dual boot system  from the touch of a button.

I'm not saying I know it all but I've learnt a lot in 6 years and I know there 
is more to learn 

 It takes time but a notebook will give you both platforms on the go if you 
needed to be portable, the mac mini gives you the option of 2 platforms  at the 
touch of a button.

Take your time and think about what you require but know that the list your on 
has a lot of very knowledgable people that can answer most of your questions 
when you need to ask.

 Good luck and keep the positive  attitude 

Good luckl

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Arnold Schmidt
Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 5:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

I have been thinking about this for several days.  As one coming from Windows, 
having used windows since I got my windows 98 computer in 2000, learning to use 
the mac is like learning a whole new language.  I know what I want to do, but 
how to do it is almost totally different.  Hey, control c copies something and 
control v pastes it, they have that in common.  But I have come up with the 
best reason yet for me to get some used equipment and learn to do it.  Even if 
I come to the conclusion that there really isn't a whole lot I can do, in all 
caps, BETTER on the mac than in windows, I learned to do it, and will be able 
to speak? mac as well as windows.  That is a pretty good reason to do it.  I 
admit, I probably wouldn't bother if I didn't have my iPhone, which apparently 
works a little better in Mac iTunes, than in windows iTunes.  We'll see, 
eventually. Now, if I just didn't have to work 40 hours a week, becoming 
proficient in mac would happen sooner. 
This was one of my vacation weeks.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message -
From: "Kimber Gardner" <kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

I'm not Arnold so can't presume to answer for him, but I found myself
in a similar situation several years ago when I bought a MacAir.
Despite multiple attempts to learn the new operating system, I found
myself frustrated at nearly every turn. Now I've been an IT
professional for thirty years, working all that time in the windows
environment, still I found the learning curve extremely daunting.

I've read this thread with great interest and I think the many
comments about total immersion while learning may have been the root
of my own failure with the Mac. Because I became frustrated in my
attempts to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like reading and
answering email), I frequently switched back to windows to do what I
needed to do. Consequently I lost whatever ground I had gained in the
Mac universe.

This is my rather long way of saying that while installing bootcamp on
a Mac may seem like no big deal to you (or anyone who is comfortable
with the Mac), for me that task seems like a mountain the size of
Everest. I suspect Arnold may feel the same.

Unlike Arnold I kept my Mac and still return to it from time to time.
I've been a devoted Apple user on the mobile platform for several
years and there is something that brings me back to the Mac again and
again. It may be just that I don't like to admit failure in the face
of any technology. I don't really know. About the only method I
haven't tried is one on one training. That may be my next (and
possibly final) step.

Kimber

On 7/7/16, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
> Hi arnld,
>
> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>
> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple
> os.
>
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Ba

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-08 Thread Sandi Jazmin Kruse

hi, Mark, beautifully put. Joseph. my idea is make an evening , find
out what do people need, and take it from there.
As Mark says though having both windows and mac is not a bad idea, i
use windows for scanning and reading if i need to read fast.
For all of you who have a mac and have problems with them, write write
write. it is what the list is made for, and remember , the only stupid
questions are the once not asked.
Sandi

On 7/7/16, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
> Hello Arnold,
>
> Like so many others, I have been following this thread.  Why?  Because, you
> remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my Mac journey.  This is
> to say, even after owning an iPhone for some time, I found that learning how
> to use a Mac, via VoiceOver, extremely frustrating, at first--especially
> given my then expertise with Jaws for Windows.
>
> There are many reasons why people explore new paths.  For some, they merely
> wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to themselves
> that they can do it.  Still others explore new paths out of frustration with
> the status quo.  My point is that, why, one does something can, in many
> instances directly affect the outcome of the exploration, itself.
>
> In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac because I
> was completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering that they
> deliberately removed the self-voicing installation feature that shipped with
> the first beta release of Windows 7.  I had a copy of that particular beta
> which, via Narrator, offered a flawlessly comprehensive installation
> experience for a totally blind user.  It never crossed my mind that they
> would pull that feature in subsequent beta releases which, as it turned out,
> they did.
>
> I can still remember the rage I felt when one of the Microsoft talking
> heads, up in Redland, told me, via telephone, that they pulled the feature
> as a result of security concerns.  Even as I write this, reliving the
> experience in my mind, my blood begins to proverbially boil.
>
> But I digress.
>
> My point is that after that phone call, I went directly to my local Mac
> store and purchased my first MacBook Pro.  As you can imagine, my primary
> motivation for learning the Mac was because I was sick and tired of
> Microsoft restricting installation access to its blind and low vision
> users--especially given that they had proven that it could be done and that
> it could be done well.
>
> Having said all of this, let me add that, despite the opinions of many, the
> Macintosh is not for everyone or not better in all situations.
>
> Windows is a fine operating system and Jaws, Window Eyes, Zoomtext, etc are
> all marvelous accessibility tools.
>
> Generally speaking, I think it's best to learn how to use both Windows and
> Mac OS.  Financial limitations notwithstanding, there is no need to choose
> one over the other.
>
> I want to applaud your effort in exploring the Macintosh.  Do not be
> disappointed in yourself; you will learn what you need to know when you need
> to know it.  That's just the way the universe works, in my opinion.
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Arnold Schmidt
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 10:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>
> I have been thinking about this for several days.  As one coming from
> Windows, having used windows since I got my windows 98 computer in 2000,
> learning to use the mac is like learning a whole new language.  I know what
> I want to do, but how to do it is almost totally different.  Hey, control c
> copies something and control v pastes it, they have that in common.  But I
> have come up with the best reason yet for me to get some used equipment and
> learn to do it.  Even if I come to the conclusion that there really isn't a
> whole lot I can do, in all caps, BETTER on the mac than in windows, I
> learned to do it, and will be able to speak? mac as well as windows.  That
> is a pretty good reason to do it.  I admit, I probably wouldn't bother if I
> didn't have my iPhone, which apparently works a little better in Mac iTunes,
> than in windows iTunes.  We'll see, eventually. Now, if I just didn't have
> to work 40 hours a week, becoming proficient in mac would happen sooner.
> This was one of my vacation weeks.
>
> Arnold Schmidt
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kimber Gardner" <kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com>
> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 7:21 AM
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>
>
> I'm not Arnold so can't presume to

RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread M. Taylor

Hello Arnold,  

Like so many others, I have been following this thread.  Why?  Because, you 
remind me a great deal of myself, at the outset of my Mac journey.  This is to 
say, even after owning an iPhone for some time, I found that learning how to 
use a Mac, via VoiceOver, extremely frustrating, at first--especially given my 
then expertise with Jaws for Windows.

There are many reasons why people explore new paths.  For some, they merely 
wish to broaden their horizons, for others, it is to prove to themselves that 
they can do it.  Still others explore new paths out of frustration with the 
status quo.  My point is that, why, one does something can, in many instances 
directly affect the outcome of the exploration, itself.  

In my case, I was fervently motivated to learn how to use a Mac because I was 
completely disgusted with Microsoft after discovering that they deliberately 
removed the self-voicing installation feature that shipped with the first beta 
release of Windows 7.  I had a copy of that particular beta which, via 
Narrator, offered a flawlessly comprehensive installation experience for a 
totally blind user.  It never crossed my mind that they would pull that feature 
in subsequent beta releases which, as it turned out, they did.  

I can still remember the rage I felt when one of the Microsoft talking heads, 
up in Redland, told me, via telephone, that they pulled the feature as a result 
of security concerns.  Even as I write this, reliving the experience in my 
mind, my blood begins to proverbially boil.  

But I digress.  

My point is that after that phone call, I went directly to my local Mac store 
and purchased my first MacBook Pro.  As you can imagine, my primary motivation 
for learning the Mac was because I was sick and tired of Microsoft restricting 
installation access to its blind and low vision users--especially given that 
they had proven that it could be done and that it could be done well.

Having said all of this, let me add that, despite the opinions of many, the 
Macintosh is not for everyone or not better in all situations.  

Windows is a fine operating system and Jaws, Window Eyes, Zoomtext, etc are all 
marvelous accessibility tools.

Generally speaking, I think it's best to learn how to use both Windows and Mac 
OS.  Financial limitations notwithstanding, there is no need to choose one over 
the other.

I want to applaud your effort in exploring the Macintosh.  Do not be 
disappointed in yourself; you will learn what you need to know when you need to 
know it.  That's just the way the universe works, in my opinion.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Arnold Schmidt
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 10:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

I have been thinking about this for several days.  As one coming from Windows, 
having used windows since I got my windows 98 computer in 2000, learning to use 
the mac is like learning a whole new language.  I know what I want to do, but 
how to do it is almost totally different.  Hey, control c copies something and 
control v pastes it, they have that in common.  But I have come up with the 
best reason yet for me to get some used equipment and learn to do it.  Even if 
I come to the conclusion that there really isn't a whole lot I can do, in all 
caps, BETTER on the mac than in windows, I learned to do it, and will be able 
to speak? mac as well as windows.  That is a pretty good reason to do it.  I 
admit, I probably wouldn't bother if I didn't have my iPhone, which apparently 
works a little better in Mac iTunes, than in windows iTunes.  We'll see, 
eventually. Now, if I just didn't have to work 40 hours a week, becoming 
proficient in mac would happen sooner. 
This was one of my vacation weeks.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message -
From: "Kimber Gardner" <kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


I'm not Arnold so can't presume to answer for him, but I found myself
in a similar situation several years ago when I bought a MacAir.
Despite multiple attempts to learn the new operating system, I found
myself frustrated at nearly every turn. Now I've been an IT
professional for thirty years, working all that time in the windows
environment, still I found the learning curve extremely daunting.

I've read this thread with great interest and I think the many
comments about total immersion while learning may have been the root
of my own failure with the Mac. Because I became frustrated in my
attempts to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like reading and
answering email), I frequently switched back to windows to do what I
needed to do. Consequently I lost whatever ground I had gained in the
Mac universe.

This is my rather long way of saying that while instal

RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread M. Taylor

Beautifully stated, Kawal.  

Mark

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 1:23 PM
To: Macvisionaries
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hello.

Just been reading this thread with interest as I rarely post to this list due 
to time etc.

I like the last person who said, that they would learn the Mac slowly and not 
hurry.  If you all think of it this way.

Learning something new takes time and it’s like learning a new musical 
instrument.

Two years ago, I started learning the flute.  For me that has been a demanding 
instrument and last year as I felt I was getting no where, I thought about 
giving it up.  I was really depressed as that made me feel that I was a 
failure.  However, I told myself that giving this up would be a failure as I 
had invested in getting a flute.  So this year, I’m much better at it and am 
now going to work towards my Grade 3 examination.

I’ve been using the Mac since 2010 and for a week, I had a dear friend who was 
patient.  He taught me the basics and I learnt in a week the mac basics.

These days I’m no expert and there are lots of things I don’t know about the 
Mac.  However it doesn’t bother me that I’m no expert because whilst I’m a 
Window user at work, at home I use the Mac and slowly I pick things up.  I use 
to get upset if I couldn’t work something but the older I get, I don’t let 
things bother me so much.

The worst happened to me two years ago and my life was almost ruined.  Nothing 
can hurt me now as I won’t let it and as long as I can work the Mac to get on 
the Internet as that is my main priority, nothing really matters.  I know 
enough to sort out my internet needs as I live alone  and have a few friends 
who will help me if I can’t do something.  I am much better on the Macs these 
days.  I was going to use Windows on VM and although I have an up-to-date VM, 
I’ve not installed windows.  I like it that whilst at home, I exclusively use 
the Mac and at work I need to use Windows.  But I’m not so good with jaws 
anymore but as long as I can do my day job, nothing really worries me.

Kawal.
On 7 Jul 2016, at 20:56, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:

Hi Arnold.

I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?
I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  That's 
the way I like it!

I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
every new experience and see this learning experience as an important milestone 
in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it aint!

I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member of 
this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm a 
happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
importantly, I'll enjoy it!

Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
different!

Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.

Very best wishes.
Andy.

- Original Message - 
From: Katie Zodrow
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi Arnold.
That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
Katie
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, I am 
checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one back the end 
of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.

Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message - 
From: Simon Fogarty
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Hi arnld,
Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple os.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.
Joseph Hudson

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Joseph Hudson

Just as I say feel free to use my contact information below I don't do anything 
that will stress you out I will teach you the basics and I mean very basics to 
get you started with the Mac. As I do not dude boot camp or VM fusion.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com <mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 
<https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404>
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com <mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
> On Jul 7, 2016, at 6:21 AM, Kimber Gardner <kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm not Arnold so can't presume to answer for him, but I found myself
> in a similar situation several years ago when I bought a MacAir.
> Despite multiple attempts to learn the new operating system, I found
> myself frustrated at nearly every turn. Now I've been an IT
> professional for thirty years, working all that time in the windows
> environment, still I found the learning curve extremely daunting.
> 
> I've read this thread with great interest and I think the many
> comments about total immersion while learning may have been the root
> of my own failure with the Mac. Because I became frustrated in my
> attempts to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like reading and
> answering email), I frequently switched back to windows to do what I
> needed to do. Consequently I lost whatever ground I had gained in the
> Mac universe.
> 
> This is my rather long way of saying that while installing bootcamp on
> a Mac may seem like no big deal to you (or anyone who is comfortable
> with the Mac), for me that task seems like a mountain the size of
> Everest. I suspect Arnold may feel the same.
> 
> Unlike Arnold I kept my Mac and still return to it from time to time.
> I've been a devoted Apple user on the mobile platform for several
> years and there is something that brings me back to the Mac again and
> again. It may be just that I don't like to admit failure in the face
> of any technology. I don't really know. About the only method I
> haven't tried is one on one training. That may be my next (and
> possibly final) step.
> 
> Kimber
> 
> On 7/7/16, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> 
> wrote:
>> Hi arnld,
>> 
>> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>> 
>> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple
>> os.
>> 
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
>> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free
>> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles.
>> My information that I would like you to have been say is below in my
>> signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I
>> will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't
>> work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for
>> Arnold this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still free to use
>> interviews my information in my signature as well as you wish.
>> Joseph Hudson
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com <mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com><mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>>
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89 facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 
>> <https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404>
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 <https://twitter.com/josephhudson89>
>> 
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com <mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com><mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com 
>> <mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>>
>> 
>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt
>> <arno...@mindspring.com 
>> <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com><mailto:arno...@mindspring.com 
>> <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>>> wrote:
>> 
>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two
>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all
>> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.
>> 
>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't
>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn
>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look u

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Joseph Hudson

Hi Sandy, sounds like a great idea but I do one-on-one training, As I find 
people learn better that way.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com <mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 
<https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404>
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com <mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
> On Jul 7, 2016, at 6:29 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse <sandi1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> maybe it would be a good idea to make a evening where the new users
> could ask the older users about stuff?
> Skype could be used for this, or other chat like things, i am not
> going to suggest Irc, since not many blind folks are on it it seems
> like. But we could definitely make a chat like thing, that would work.
> I don't recall all of my questions from back in time , and the thing
> is, we were once there , all of us, some are better at different
> things than others. it be fusion, or other things.
> I am girlgirl12345 on Skype, if anyone need help, give me a call.
> Maybe i don't answer right away, but i *do* see it and will come back
> with an answer :)
> Sandi
> 
> On 7/7/16, Kimber Gardner <kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm not Arnold so can't presume to answer for him, but I found myself
>> in a similar situation several years ago when I bought a MacAir.
>> Despite multiple attempts to learn the new operating system, I found
>> myself frustrated at nearly every turn. Now I've been an IT
>> professional for thirty years, working all that time in the windows
>> environment, still I found the learning curve extremely daunting.
>> 
>> I've read this thread with great interest and I think the many
>> comments about total immersion while learning may have been the root
>> of my own failure with the Mac. Because I became frustrated in my
>> attempts to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like reading and
>> answering email), I frequently switched back to windows to do what I
>> needed to do. Consequently I lost whatever ground I had gained in the
>> Mac universe.
>> 
>> This is my rather long way of saying that while installing bootcamp on
>> a Mac may seem like no big deal to you (or anyone who is comfortable
>> with the Mac), for me that task seems like a mountain the size of
>> Everest. I suspect Arnold may feel the same.
>> 
>> Unlike Arnold I kept my Mac and still return to it from time to time.
>> I've been a devoted Apple user on the mobile platform for several
>> years and there is something that brings me back to the Mac again and
>> again. It may be just that I don't like to admit failure in the face
>> of any technology. I don't really know. About the only method I
>> haven't tried is one on one training. That may be my next (and
>> possibly final) step.
>> 
>> Kimber
>> 
>> On 7/7/16, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
>>> Hi arnld,
>>> 
>>> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>>> 
>>> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the
>>> apple
>>> os.
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
>>> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>> 
>>> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free
>>> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough
>>> struggles.
>>> My information that I would like you to have been say is below in my
>>> signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it.
>>> I
>>> will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now that I
>>> couldn't
>>> work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for
>>> Arnold this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still free to use
>>> interviews my information in my signature as well as you wish.
>>> Joseph Hudson
>>> Email
>>> jhud7...@gmail.com<mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
>>> I device support
>>> Telephone
>>> 2543007667
>>> Skype
>>> joseph.hudson89 facebook
>>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>>> Twitter
>>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
>>> 
>>> FaceTime/iMessage
>>> jhud7...@yahoo.com<mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
>>> 
>>>

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Kawal Gucukoglu

Hello.

Just been reading this thread with interest as I rarely post to this list due 
to time etc.

I like the last person who said, that they would learn the Mac slowly and not 
hurry.  If you all think of it this way.

Learning something new takes time and it’s like learning a new musical 
instrument.

Two years ago, I started learning the flute.  For me that has been a demanding 
instrument and last year as I felt I was getting no where, I thought about 
giving it up.  I was really depressed as that made me feel that I was a 
failure.  However, I told myself that giving this up would be a failure as I 
had invested in getting a flute.  So this year, I’m much better at it and am 
now going to work towards my Grade 3 examination.

I’ve been using the Mac since 2010 and for a week, I had a dear friend who was 
patient.  He taught me the basics and I learnt in a week the mac basics.

These days I’m no expert and there are lots of things I don’t know about the 
Mac.  However it doesn’t bother me that I’m no expert because whilst I’m a 
Window user at work, at home I use the Mac and slowly I pick things up.  I use 
to get upset if I couldn’t work something but the older I get, I don’t let 
things bother me so much.

The worst happened to me two years ago and my life was almost ruined.  Nothing 
can hurt me now as I won’t let it and as long as I can work the Mac to get on 
the Internet as that is my main priority, nothing really matters.  I know 
enough to sort out my internet needs as I live alone  and have a few friends 
who will help me if I can’t do something.  I am much better on the Macs these 
days.  I was going to use Windows on VM and although I have an up-to-date VM, 
I’ve not installed windows.  I like it that whilst at home, I exclusively use 
the Mac and at work I need to use Windows.  But I’m not so good with jaws 
anymore but as long as I can do my day job, nothing really worries me.

Kawal.
> On 7 Jul 2016, at 20:56, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Arnold.
>  
> I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?
> I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  That's 
> the way I like it!
>  
> I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
> every new experience and see this learning experience as an important 
> milestone in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it 
> aint!
>  
>  
> I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member 
> of this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm 
> a happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
> importantly, I'll enjoy it!
>  
> Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
> different!
>  
> Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.
>  
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
>  
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Katie Zodrow <mailto:kzodrow...@att.net>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Hi Arnold.
>> That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
>> continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
>> won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
>> Katie
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com 
>> <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, 
>>> I am checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one 
>>> back the end of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.
>>>  
>>> Arnold Schmidt
>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>> From: Simon Fogarty <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>>> 
>>>> Hi arnld,
>>>> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>>>> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple 
>>>> os.
>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
>>>> To: macvisionar

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Andy

Hi Arnold.

I purchased my beutiful 27 inch Imac about 5 weeks ago now and guess what?
I've learned nothing apart from a few basic commands, but guess what?  That's 
the way I like it!

I'm going to slow right down and think, rather than act and enjoy each and 
every new experience and see this learning experience as an important milestone 
in my life, rather than a very difficult task, which I suppose, it aint!


I'm in absolutely no hurry and as long as I've got my book and I'm a member of 
this list and I hold onto my windows for email for the meantime, then I'm a 
happy chappy, because, slowly but surely, I'll learn this new OS but 
importantly, I'll enjoy it!

Now I'm off to wash the evening dishes and that's something completely 
different!

Glad to hear you are going to stick with it my friend.

Very best wishes.
Andy.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Katie Zodrow 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:47 PM
  Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


  Hi Arnold.
  That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
  Katie
  Sent from my iPhone

  On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:


Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, 
I am checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one back 
the end of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.

Arnold Schmidt
  - Original Message - 
  From: Simon Fogarty 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
  Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


  Hi arnld,



  Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?



  That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the 
apple os.



  From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
  Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back



  Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.

  Joseph Hudson

  Email

  jhud7...@gmail.com

  I device support

  Telephone

  2543007667

  Skype

  joseph.hudson89 facebook

  https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404

  Twitter

  https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 



  FaceTime/iMessage

  jhud7...@yahoo.com



On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> 
wrote:



I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  



To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just 
wasn't getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would 
turn it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that 
I thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.  



Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out 
intending to put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my 
paratransit trip to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to 
cancel.  So, I decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted 
yet.  I successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but 
then, no matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question 
it wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac 
mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what 
should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed 
in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the wrong 
answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get it to 
read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed Safari, 
then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to t

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Sandi Jazmin Kruse

well, Arnold, what you should have done, i know it is easy for me to
say this, gotten all of the starting manuals.
I had i believe 3 weeks too learn the mac, but i was pretty set on
what i wanted, so that combined with a workweek on way more than 40
hours, my work was cut out for me to start with, yet i will  never
look back and get anything different for serious use.

Sandi.

On 7/7/16, Katie Zodrow <kzodrow...@att.net> wrote:
> Hi Arnold.
> That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can
> continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably
> won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
> Katie
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will  read in some other
>> messages, I am checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the
>> new one back the end of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the
>> story.
>>
>> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Simon Fogarty
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
>> Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>
>> Hi arnld,
>>
>> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>>
>> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple
>> os.
>>
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
>> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>
>> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free
>> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough
>> struggles. My information that I would like you to have been say is below
>> in my signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret
>> getting it. I will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now
>> that I couldn't work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is
>> not just for Arnold this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still
>> free to use interviews my information in my signature as well as you
>> wish.
>> Joseph Hudson
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89 facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
>>
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>>
>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two
>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after
>> all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.
>>
>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't
>> getting it as much  as I think I should have been.  Every time I would
>> turn it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things
>> that I thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more
>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in
>> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real
>> benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install
>> the OS myself.
>>
>> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending
>> to put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit
>> trip to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.
>> So, I decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.
>>  I successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but
>> then, no matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security
>> question it wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go
>> on this Mac mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I
>> could find what should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read
>> anything.  I typed in the answer to one of my security questions, which,
>> of course, was the wrong answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure
>> the inability to get it to read the security question was mine, not the
>> Mac Mini's .  So, I closed Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help,
>> just to try differing combinations of keys I had never tried before to see
>> what it would say.  I was trying

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Katie Zodrow

Hi Arnold.
That's great! I'm glad you're looking into getting a used Mac. Then you can 
continue  learning the OS some more on your days off work and you probably 
won't be as rushed trying to learn everything.
Katie
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will  read in some other messages, I 
> am checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one back 
> the end of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
> - Original Message -
> From: Simon Fogarty
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
> Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> Hi arnld,
>  
> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>  
> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple os.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>  
> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. 
> My information that I would like you to have been say is below in my 
> signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I 
> will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't 
> work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold 
> this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews 
> my information in my signature as well as you wish.
> Joseph Hudson
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89 facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>  
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com
>  
> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>  
> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>  
> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
> getting it as much  as I think I should have been.  Every time I would 
> turn it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things 
> that I thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in 
> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real 
> benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the 
> OS myself.  
>  
> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
> put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
> to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
> decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
> successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
> matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it 
> wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac 
> mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what 
> should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed 
> in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the 
> wrong answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get 
> it to read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed 
> Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to try differing 
> combinations of keys I had never tried before to see what it would say.  I 
> was trying the function keys, and hit a key at the very right end of them, 
> and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get VoiceOver talking again.  I 
> tried the three-finger triple tap on the track pad,then the three-finger 
> double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned the track pad commander 
> off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, nothing.  And this was 
> my last day.
>  
> I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have 
> gone back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got 
> it, but it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested 
> in the thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account 
> than I wanted to

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Arnold Schmidt

I have been thinking about this for several days.  As one coming from 
Windows, having used windows since I got my windows 98 computer in 2000, 
learning to use the mac is like learning a whole new language.  I know what 
I want to do, but how to do it is almost totally different.  Hey, control c 
copies something and control v pastes it, they have that in common.  But I 
have come up with the best reason yet for me to get some used equipment and 
learn to do it.  Even if I come to the conclusion that there really isn't a 
whole lot I can do, in all caps, BETTER on the mac than in windows, I 
learned to do it, and will be able to speak? mac as well as windows.  That 
is a pretty good reason to do it.  I admit, I probably wouldn't bother if I 
didn't have my iPhone, which apparently works a little better in Mac iTunes, 
than in windows iTunes.  We'll see, eventually. Now, if I just didn't have 
to work 40 hours a week, becoming proficient in mac would happen sooner. 
This was one of my vacation weeks.


Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message - 
From: "Kimber Gardner" <kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


I'm not Arnold so can't presume to answer for him, but I found myself
in a similar situation several years ago when I bought a MacAir.
Despite multiple attempts to learn the new operating system, I found
myself frustrated at nearly every turn. Now I've been an IT
professional for thirty years, working all that time in the windows
environment, still I found the learning curve extremely daunting.

I've read this thread with great interest and I think the many
comments about total immersion while learning may have been the root
of my own failure with the Mac. Because I became frustrated in my
attempts to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like reading and
answering email), I frequently switched back to windows to do what I
needed to do. Consequently I lost whatever ground I had gained in the
Mac universe.

This is my rather long way of saying that while installing bootcamp on
a Mac may seem like no big deal to you (or anyone who is comfortable
with the Mac), for me that task seems like a mountain the size of
Everest. I suspect Arnold may feel the same.

Unlike Arnold I kept my Mac and still return to it from time to time.
I've been a devoted Apple user on the mobile platform for several
years and there is something that brings me back to the Mac again and
again. It may be just that I don't like to admit failure in the face
of any technology. I don't really know. About the only method I
haven't tried is one on one training. That may be my next (and
possibly final) step.

Kimber

On 7/7/16, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:

Hi arnld,

Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?

That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple
os.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough 
struggles.

My information that I would like you to have been say is below in my
signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. 
I

will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't
work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for
Arnold this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still free to use
interviews my information in my signature as well as you wish.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com<mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com<mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>

On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt
<arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:

I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two
weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
all

yesterday, which was my last day to return it.

To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't
getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn
it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that 
I

thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more
frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in
Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real
benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install
the OS myself.

Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Arnold Schmidt

Quite literally, my time was up.  As you will read in some other messages, I am 
checking into some used equipment.  Consider my taking the new one back the end 
of the chapter, not necessarily the end of the story.

Arnold Schmidt
  - Original Message - 
  From: Simon Fogarty 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:50 AM
  Subject: RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

  Hi arnld,

  Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?

  That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple os.

  From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
  Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

  Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.

  Joseph Hudson

  Email

  jhud7...@gmail.com

  I device support

  Telephone

  2543007667

  Skype

  joseph.hudson89 facebook

  https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404

  Twitter

  https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

  FaceTime/iMessage

  jhud7...@yahoo.com

On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:

I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  

To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.  

Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending 
to put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it wanted 
answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac mini.  I 
could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what should have 
been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed in the answer 
to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the wrong answer for the 
question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get it to read the security 
question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed Safari, then decided to 
turn on keyboard help, just to try differing combinations of keys I had never 
tried before to see what it would say.  I was trying the function keys, and hit 
a key at the very right end of them, and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would 
get VoiceOver talking again.  I tried the three-finger triple tap on the track 
pad,then the three-finger double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned 
the track pad commander off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, 
nothing.  And this was my last day.

I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have 
gone back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got it, 
but it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested in the 
thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account than I 
wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from Costco, 
and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought the Lenovo 
first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  Sometime before 
Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be another good deal 
come through Costco.

I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did.  But it ended up being 
so much tedium and frustration to me, as compared to what I already know, with 
not all that much seeming benefit in the end. I fully expected not to know what 
I was doing for a while, but I thought it would have begun

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Saqib Hussain

Mine is connected to a 40 inch TV with HDMI cable.   The keyboard freezing 
would last up to 10 minutes  that sort of behaviour is just not acceptable 
especially when we pay so much for these devices. 

> On 7 Jul 2016, at 13:03, Sandi Jazmin Kruse <sandi1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> if you are on a mini, with no monitor connected, it is normal
> behavior. mine does this sometimes as well.
> 
>> On 7/7/16, Saqib Hussain <saqib1...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> Hi. After my issues with the keyboard freezing! I’ve had my Mac Mini
>> replaced and I could of asked for a refund when I went to the Apple store
>> yesterday but I wanted to give the OS the benefit of the doubt and got a
>> replacement and It’s been working well since I had set it up again yesterday
>> evening. I’m learning commands because I’m using programs like the mail
>> client everyday and Ive been making mental notes of them as well. I don’t
>> know whether you can install software from the internet without risking
>> infecting the OS with a virus but I did download RS Games which was very
>> buggy and Skype and my theory is that may have been the cause of the
>> keyboard freezing in edit boxes periodically.  I’m not ever going  to
>> download anything from the internet again. If I want to listen to an audio
>> file! I will stream it on another device.
>>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 17:52, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I got an iPhone 5 in October, 2012, and now have an iPhone 6.   I consider
>>> them to be the most life changing pieces of electronics I have ever
>>> bought. I wanted to try this Mac Mini,   and am willing to give a Mac
>>> another attempt in the future.
>>> 
>>> Arnold Schmidt
>>> ----- Original Message - From: "christopher hallsworth"
>>> <challswor...@icloud.com>
>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:18 AM
>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you
>>> can spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being
>>> tied to any sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod
>>> Touch 4th Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone
>>> 4. To date, I have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini
>>> 2. I have other Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for
>>> now. I would highly recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before
>>> trying an iPhone. Just my £0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.
>>>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility,
>>>> and the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.
>>>> 
>>>> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem
>>>> to get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because
>>>> they just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By
>>>> then, they have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big
>>>> cancellation fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money
>>>> invested in something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto
>>>> eventually.   By no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday,
>>>> but I think I should have been getting it, a little more than I was by
>>>> the deadline. I am not opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will
>>>> have to be some kind of cheaper alternative, though, until I feel
>>>> confident that I am going to get it.  I wish Apple had given me more
>>>> time.
>>>> 
>>>> Arnold Schmidt
>>>>> - Original Message - From: Scott Granados
>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system
>>>>> in 2 weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even
>>>>> undertake such a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have
>>>>> 35 years of computer experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong
>>>>> mindset. I remember the first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.
>>>>>

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Sandi Jazmin Kruse

if you are on a mini, with no monitor connected, it is normal
behavior. mine does this sometimes as well.

On 7/7/16, Saqib Hussain <saqib1...@icloud.com> wrote:
> Hi. After my issues with the keyboard freezing! I’ve had my Mac Mini
> replaced and I could of asked for a refund when I went to the Apple store
> yesterday but I wanted to give the OS the benefit of the doubt and got a
> replacement and It’s been working well since I had set it up again yesterday
> evening. I’m learning commands because I’m using programs like the mail
> client everyday and Ive been making mental notes of them as well. I don’t
> know whether you can install software from the internet without risking
> infecting the OS with a virus but I did download RS Games which was very
> buggy and Skype and my theory is that may have been the cause of the
> keyboard freezing in edit boxes periodically.  I’m not ever going  to
> download anything from the internet again. If I want to listen to an audio
> file! I will stream it on another device.
>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 17:52, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> I got an iPhone 5 in October, 2012, and now have an iPhone 6.   I consider
>> them to be the most life changing pieces of electronics I have ever
>> bought. I wanted to try this Mac Mini,   and am willing to give a Mac
>> another attempt in the future.
>>
>> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message - From: "christopher hallsworth"
>> <challswor...@icloud.com>
>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>
>>
>> I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you
>> can spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being
>> tied to any sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod
>> Touch 4th Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone
>> 4. To date, I have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini
>> 2. I have other Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for
>> now. I would highly recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before
>> trying an iPhone. Just my £0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.
>>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility,
>>> and the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.
>>>
>>> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem
>>> to get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because
>>> they just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By
>>> then, they have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big
>>> cancellation fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money
>>> invested in something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto
>>> eventually.   By no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday,
>>> but I think I should have been getting it, a little more than I was by
>>> the deadline. I am not opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will
>>> have to be some kind of cheaper alternative, though, until I feel
>>> confident that I am going to get it.  I wish Apple had given me more
>>> time.
>>>
>>> Arnold Schmidt
>>>> - Original Message - From: Scott Granados
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>>>
>>>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system
>>>> in 2 weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even
>>>> undertake such a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have
>>>> 35 years of computer experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong
>>>> mindset. I remember the first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.
>>>>  It’s like learning a language, you can’t learn it word by word or just
>>>> in dribs and drabs, the only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I
>>>> were learning French I’d head to France and plop down in the middle of
>>>> the country where i didn’t have a choice.  Same with computing.  When
>>>> you decide to learn a new operating system you have to cut your self off
>>>> from the old. You have to build up all new muscle memory for keyboard
>>>> commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing windows type

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Saqib Hussain

Hi. After my issues with the keyboard freezing! I’ve had my Mac Mini replaced 
and I could of asked for a refund when I went to the Apple store yesterday but 
I wanted to give the OS the benefit of the doubt and got a replacement and It’s 
been working well since I had set it up again yesterday evening. I’m learning 
commands because I’m using programs like the mail client everyday and Ive been 
making mental notes of them as well. I don’t know whether you can install 
software from the internet without risking infecting the OS with a virus but I 
did download RS Games which was very buggy and Skype and my theory is that may 
have been the cause of the keyboard freezing in edit boxes periodically.  I’m 
not ever going  to download anything from the internet again. If I want to 
listen to an audio file! I will stream it on another device. 
> On 6 Jul 2016, at 17:52, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> I got an iPhone 5 in October, 2012, and now have an iPhone 6.   I consider 
> them to be the most life changing pieces of electronics I have ever bought. I 
> wanted to try this Mac Mini,   and am willing to give a Mac another attempt 
> in the future.
> 
> Arnold Schmidt
> - Original Message - From: "christopher hallsworth" 
> <challswor...@icloud.com>
> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> 
> I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you can 
> spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being tied to 
> any sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod Touch 4th 
> Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone 4. To date, I 
> have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini 2. I have other 
> Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for now. I would highly 
> recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before trying an iPhone. Just my 
> £0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.
>> On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, 
>> and the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.
>> 
>> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
>> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
>> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
>> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
>> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
>> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   
>> By no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I 
>> should have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am 
>> not opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind 
>> of cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to 
>> get it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.
>> 
>> Arnold Schmidt
>>> - Original Message - From: Scott Granados
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>> 
>>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
>>> weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such 
>>> a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of 
>>> computer experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I 
>>> remember the first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like 
>>> learning a language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and 
>>> drabs, the only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning 
>>> French I’d head to France and plop down in the middle of the country where 
>>> i didn’t have a choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a 
>>> new operating system you have to cut your self off from the old. You have 
>>> to build up all new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 
>>> you kept issuing windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing 
>>> problems not for anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and 
>>> have built up years of muscle memory for commands in Windows.
>>> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even 
>>> in your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not 
>>> sure why you bothered.

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Sandi Jazmin Kruse

maybe it would be a good idea to make a evening where the new users
could ask the older users about stuff?
Skype could be used for this, or other chat like things, i am not
going to suggest Irc, since not many blind folks are on it it seems
like. But we could definitely make a chat like thing, that would work.
I don't recall all of my questions from back in time , and the thing
is, we were once there , all of us, some are better at different
things than others. it be fusion, or other things.
I am girlgirl12345 on Skype, if anyone need help, give me a call.
Maybe i don't answer right away, but i *do* see it and will come back
with an answer :)
Sandi

On 7/7/16, Kimber Gardner <kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not Arnold so can't presume to answer for him, but I found myself
> in a similar situation several years ago when I bought a MacAir.
> Despite multiple attempts to learn the new operating system, I found
> myself frustrated at nearly every turn. Now I've been an IT
> professional for thirty years, working all that time in the windows
> environment, still I found the learning curve extremely daunting.
>
> I've read this thread with great interest and I think the many
> comments about total immersion while learning may have been the root
> of my own failure with the Mac. Because I became frustrated in my
> attempts to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like reading and
> answering email), I frequently switched back to windows to do what I
> needed to do. Consequently I lost whatever ground I had gained in the
> Mac universe.
>
> This is my rather long way of saying that while installing bootcamp on
> a Mac may seem like no big deal to you (or anyone who is comfortable
> with the Mac), for me that task seems like a mountain the size of
> Everest. I suspect Arnold may feel the same.
>
> Unlike Arnold I kept my Mac and still return to it from time to time.
> I've been a devoted Apple user on the mobile platform for several
> years and there is something that brings me back to the Mac again and
> again. It may be just that I don't like to admit failure in the face
> of any technology. I don't really know. About the only method I
> haven't tried is one on one training. That may be my next (and
> possibly final) step.
>
> Kimber
>
> On 7/7/16, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
>> Hi arnld,
>>
>> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>>
>> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the
>> apple
>> os.
>>
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
>> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>>
>> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free
>> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough
>> struggles.
>> My information that I would like you to have been say is below in my
>> signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it.
>> I
>> will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now that I
>> couldn't
>> work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for
>> Arnold this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still free to use
>> interviews my information in my signature as well as you wish.
>> Joseph Hudson
>> Email
>> jhud7...@gmail.com<mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
>> I device support
>> Telephone
>> 2543007667
>> Skype
>> joseph.hudson89 facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
>> Twitter
>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
>>
>> FaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@yahoo.com<mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
>>
>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt
>> <arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two
>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after
>> all
>> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.
>>
>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just
>> wasn't
>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would
>> turn
>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that
>> I
>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more
>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in
>> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real
>> benefit to me?  ITunes alleg

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Kimber Gardner

I'm not Arnold so can't presume to answer for him, but I found myself
in a similar situation several years ago when I bought a MacAir.
Despite multiple attempts to learn the new operating system, I found
myself frustrated at nearly every turn. Now I've been an IT
professional for thirty years, working all that time in the windows
environment, still I found the learning curve extremely daunting.

I've read this thread with great interest and I think the many
comments about total immersion while learning may have been the root
of my own failure with the Mac. Because I became frustrated in my
attempts to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like reading and
answering email), I frequently switched back to windows to do what I
needed to do. Consequently I lost whatever ground I had gained in the
Mac universe.

This is my rather long way of saying that while installing bootcamp on
a Mac may seem like no big deal to you (or anyone who is comfortable
with the Mac), for me that task seems like a mountain the size of
Everest. I suspect Arnold may feel the same.

Unlike Arnold I kept my Mac and still return to it from time to time.
I've been a devoted Apple user on the mobile platform for several
years and there is something that brings me back to the Mac again and
again. It may be just that I don't like to admit failure in the face
of any technology. I don't really know. About the only method I
haven't tried is one on one training. That may be my next (and
possibly final) step.

Kimber

On 7/7/16, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
> Hi arnld,
>
> Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?
>
> That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple
> os.
>
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
> Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>
> Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free
> one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles.
> My information that I would like you to have been say is below in my
> signature. I had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I
> will say this, I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't
> work with Jaws with my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for
> Arnold this is for anybody who has trouble with the Mac still free to use
> interviews my information in my signature as well as you wish.
> Joseph Hudson
> Email
> jhud7...@gmail.com<mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
> I device support
> Telephone
> 2543007667
> Skype
> joseph.hudson89 facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
> Twitter
> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
>
> FaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@yahoo.com<mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>
>
> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt
> <arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>
> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two
> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all
> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.
>
> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't
> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn
> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I
> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more
> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in
> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real
> benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install
> the OS myself.
>
> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to
> put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip
> to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I
> decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I
> successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then,
> no matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it
> wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac
> mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what
> should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I
> typed in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was
> the wrong answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to
> get it to read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I
> closed Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to try differing
> combinations of keys I had never tri

RE: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-07 Thread Simon Fogarty

Hi arnld,

Just wondering why you didn’t keep it and put windows on it in bootcamp?

That would  give you vboth platforms and you can keep learnig on the apple os.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2016 8:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com<mailto:jhud7...@gmail.com>
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com<mailto:jhud7...@yahoo.com>

On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt 
<arno...@mindspring.com<mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:

I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two weeks, 
concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
yesterday, which was my last day to return it.

To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.

Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip to 
return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I decided 
to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I successfully 
passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no matter what I 
tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it wanted answered.  No 
problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac mini.  I could tell  the 
location for the answer field, I could find what should have been the question 
field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed in the answer to one of my 
security questions, which, of course, was the wrong answer for the question it 
was asking.  I am sure the inability to get it to read the security question 
was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed Safari, then decided to turn on 
keyboard help, just to try differing combinations of keys I had never tried 
before to see what it would say.  I was trying the function keys, and hit a key 
at the very right end of them, and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get 
VoiceOver talking again.  I tried the three-finger triple tap on the track 
pad,then the three-finger double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned 
the track pad commander off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, 
nothing.  And this was my last day.

I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have gone 
back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got it, but 
it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested in the 
thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account than I 
wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from Costco, 
and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought the Lenovo 
first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  Sometime before 
Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be another good deal 
come through Costco.

I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did.  But it ended up being so 
much tedium and frustration to me, as compared to what I already know, with not 
all that much seeming benefit in the end. I fully expected not to know what I 
was doing for a while, but I thought it would have begun to get easier by 
yesterday, which, I guess, it wasn't, even with the two books I have.

Arnold Schmidt

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylo

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread Joseph Hudson

Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com 
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 

Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com 
> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>  
> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
> on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
> than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
> iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
> allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.  
>  
> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
> put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
> to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
> decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
> successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
> matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it 
> wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac 
> mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what 
> should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed 
> in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the 
> wrong answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get 
> it to read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed 
> Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to try differing 
> combinations of keys I had never tried before to see what it would say.  I 
> was trying the function keys, and hit a key at the very right end of them, 
> and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get VoiceOver talking again.  I 
> tried the three-finger triple tap on the track pad,then the three-finger 
> double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned the track pad commander 
> off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, nothing.  And this was 
> my last day.
>  
> I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have 
> gone back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got 
> it, but it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested 
> in the thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account 
> than I wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from 
> Costco, and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought 
> the Lenovo first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  
> Sometime before Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be 
> another good deal come through Costco.
>  
> I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did.  But it ended up being so 
> much tedium and frustration to me, as compared to what I already know, with 
> not all that much seeming benefit in the end. I fully expected not to know 
> what I was doing for a while, but I thought it would have begun to get easier 
> by yesterday, which, I guess, it wasn't, even with the two books I have.  
>  
> Arnold Schmidt  
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread Arnold Schmidt

I got an iPhone 5 in October, 2012, and now have an iPhone 6.   I consider 
them to be the most life changing pieces of electronics I have ever bought. 
I wanted to try this Mac Mini,   and am willing to give a Mac another 
attempt in the future.


Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message - 
From: "christopher hallsworth" <challswor...@icloud.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you can 
spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being tied to 
any sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod Touch 4th 
Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone 4. To date, 
I have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini 2. I have other 
Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for now. I would highly 
recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before trying an iPhone. Just my 
£0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.

On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:

Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, 
and the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.


I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem 
to get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because 
they just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By 
then, they have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big 
cancellation fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money 
invested in something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto 
eventually.   By no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, 
but I think I should have been getting it, a little more than I was by the 
deadline. I am not opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have 
to be some kind of cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident 
that I am going to get it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.


Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message - 
From: Scott Granados

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 
2 weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake 
such a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of 
computer experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I 
remember the first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like 
learning a language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and 
drabs, the only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning 
French I’d head to France and plop down in the middle of the country 
where i didn’t have a choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to 
learn a new operating system you have to cut your self off from the old. 
You have to build up all new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d 
say 10 to 1 you kept issuing windows type keyboard commands on the Mac 
and introducing problems not for anything you are doing wrong just 
because you’re new and have built up years of muscle memory for commands 
in Windows.
You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even 
in your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m 
not sure why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, 
telling your self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living 
up to your expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform 
don’t limit yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an 
operating system like a Linux variant or something with is totally free 
out of the box, won’t cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate 
to it with out otherdistractions like worrying about the costs. No 
matter what, good job or giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the 
boundaries and I’m glad you gave it a shot.


P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from 
Amex.  I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.




On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> 
wrote:


I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.


To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just 
wasn't getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I 
would turn it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do 
things that I thought I had already learned, and it definitely was 
getting more frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do 
those things in Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was 
going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes a

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread Anne Robertson

Hello Arnold,

I think it’s quite unreasonable to expect to learn a new operating system in 
two weeks. However, I don’t see why we as blind people should get any special 
treatment from Apple when it comes to buying a computer. What I really like 
about Apple products is that I don’t need to deal with any blindness 
organisations for me to be able to use my Mac and my iPhone out of the box.
And Apple are now even selling Braille displays, although the price is rather 
high.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 6 Jul 2016, at 17:00, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
> the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.  
>  
> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By 
> no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should 
> have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not 
> opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of 
> cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get 
> it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.  
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Scott Granados <mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
>> weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such 
>> a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
>> experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
>> first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
>> language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the 
>> only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head 
>> to France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a 
>> choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating 
>> system you have to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all 
>> new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing 
>> windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for 
>> anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and have built up years 
>> of muscle memory for commands in Windows. 
>> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
>> your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
>> why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
>> self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
>> expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
>> yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system 
>> like a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t 
>> cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other 
>> distractions like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or 
>> giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave 
>> it a shot.
>> 
>> P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
>> I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com 
>>> <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
>>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
>>> all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>>>  
>>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
>>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn 
>>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
>>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
>>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread Katie Zodrow

Hey Arnold.
I'm surprised you didn't rent a Mac for 30 days just to try it out. You 
could've gone to a computer rental place and asked if you could rent a Mac. I 
think that would've been a lot cheaper than going to the Apple Store. I did 
that three years ago and rented from a computer place in Burbank California. I 
didn't even go to the Apple Store to do a contract thing. I just wanted to 
learn and try out Mac OS X to see if I'd like it. I rented from the computer 
place for five months, and that's how long it took me to learn voiceover and 
some of the applications like text Edit, GarageBand, Safari, and using the 
finder. I mainly use the Mac for everything now, and rarely ever use a Windows 
PC.
I'm glad you gave it a shot though. Hopefully next time you can try using one 
for 30 days to see if you like it.
Katie
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 8:00 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
> the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck. 
>  
> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By 
> no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should 
> have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not 
> opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of 
> cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get 
> it.  I wish Apple had given me more time. 
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
> - Original Message -
> From: Scott Granados
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
> weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such a 
> thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
> experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
> first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
> language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the 
> only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head 
> to France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a 
> choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating 
> system you have to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all 
> new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing 
> windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for 
> anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and have built up years 
> of muscle memory for commands in Windows.
> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
> your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
> why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
> self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
> expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
> yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system 
> like a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t 
> cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other 
> distractions like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or 
> giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave it 
> a shot.
> 
> P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
> I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
>> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>>  
>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn 
>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
>> frustrating than fun, being that

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread christopher hallsworth

I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you can 
spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being tied to any 
sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod Touch 4th 
Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone 4. To date, I 
have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini 2. I have other 
Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for now. I would highly 
recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before trying an iPhone. Just my 
£0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.
> On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
> the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.  
>  
> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By 
> no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should 
> have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not 
> opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of 
> cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get 
> it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.  
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Scott Granados
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
>> weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such 
>> a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
>> experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
>> first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
>> language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the 
>> only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head 
>> to France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a 
>> choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating 
>> system you have to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all 
>> new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing 
>> windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for 
>> anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and have built up years 
>> of muscle memory for commands in Windows. 
>> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
>> your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
>> why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
>> self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
>> expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
>> yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system 
>> like a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t 
>> cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other
>> distractions like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or 
>> giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave 
>> it a shot.
>> 
>> P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
>> I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
>>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
>>> all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>>>  
>>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
>>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn 
>>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
>>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
>>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in 
>>> Windows, or on m

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread Devin Prater

Oh yes, I know people that use Siri all the time, Siri and dictation.
Sent from my Mac.

Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com



> On Jul 6, 2016, at 10:00 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
> the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.  
>  
> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By 
> no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should 
> have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not 
> opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of 
> cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get 
> it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.  
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Scott Granados <mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn anoperating system in 
>> 2 weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake 
>> such a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of 
>> computer experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I 
>> remember the first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like 
>> learning a language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and 
>> drabs, the only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning 
>> French I’d head to France and plop down in the middle of the country where i 
>> didn’t have a choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new 
>> operating system you have to cut your self off from the old.  You have to 
>> build up all new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you 
>> kept issuing windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing 
>> problems not for anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and 
>> have built up years of muscle memory for commands in Windows. 
>> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
>> your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
>> why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
>> self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
>> expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
>> yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system 
>> like a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t 
>> cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other 
>> distractions like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or 
>> giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave 
>> it a shot.
>> 
>> P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
>> I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com 
>>> <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
>>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
>>> all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>>>  
>>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
>>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn 
>>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
>>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
>>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in 
>>> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real 
>>> benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install 
>>> the OS myself.  
>>>  
>>> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending 
>>> to put in a lot of extra time

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread Arnold Schmidt

Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.  

I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to get 
it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they just 
never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they have 
their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation fee to 
return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in something 
that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By no means 
did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should have been 
getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not opposed to 
trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of cheaper 
alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get it.  I wish 
Apple had given me more time.  

Arnold Schmidt
  - Original Message - 
  From: Scott Granados 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
  Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


  Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such a 
thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the only 
real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head to 
France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a choice. 
 Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating system you have 
to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all new muscle memory 
for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing windows type keyboard 
commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for anything you are doing 
wrong just because you’re new and have built up years of muscle memory for 
commands in Windows. 
  You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system like 
a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t cause 
any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other distractions 
like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or giving it a crack.  
It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave it a shot.


  P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.






On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt <arno...@mindspring.com> wrote:


I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  

To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.  

Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending 
to put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it wanted 
answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac mini.  I 
could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what should have 
been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed in the answer 
to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the wrong answer for the 
question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get it to read the security 
question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed Safari, then decided to 
turn on keyboard help, just to try differing combinations of keys I had never 
tried before to see what it would say.  I was

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread Scott Granados

Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such a 
thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the only 
real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head to 
France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a choice. 
 Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating system you have 
to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all new muscle memory 
for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing windows type keyboard 
commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for anything you are doing 
wrong just because you’re new and have built up years of muscle memory for 
commands in Windows.
You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times 
even in your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not 
sure why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling 
your self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system like 
a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t cause 
any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other distractions 
like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or giving it a crack.  
It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave it a shot.

P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  I 
canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.
> 
> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
> on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
> than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
> iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
> allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.
> 
> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
> put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
> to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
> decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
> successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
> matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it 
> wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac 
> mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what 
> should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed 
> in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the 
> wrong answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get 
> it to read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed 
> Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to try differing 
> combinations of keys I had never tried before to see what it would say.  I 
> was trying the function keys, and hit a key at the very right end of them, 
> and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get VoiceOver talking again.  I 
> tried the three-finger triple tap on the track pad,then the three-finger 
> double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned the track pad commander 
> off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, nothing.  And this was 
> my last day.
> 
> I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have 
> gone back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got 
> it, but it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested 
> in the thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account 
> than I wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from 
> Costco, and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought 
> the Lenovo first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  
> Sometime before Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be 
> another good deal come through Costco.
> 
> I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread Alex Hall

At least you tried it. As you said, though, two weeks may not have been long 
enough. I had my First Mac for almost a year, during which I tried it off and 
on while mostly using Windows. A screen reader problem in Windows made me 
switch to the Mac full-time, and that's what finally did it. I came to that 
experience knowing the basic commands and how things work, and even then, it 
took more than two weeks to start to get comfortable. Some people may be able 
to pick up anew OS in less time, but I'm not one of them. :)

If you ever want to try again, I'd suggest getting the lowest-cost Mac you can, 
maybe a low-end used Mini. That way, it's far less than $900, and you can keep 
it as long as you need it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 04:50, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
> yesterday, which was my last day to return it. 
>  
> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
> on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
> than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
> iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
> allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself. 
>  
> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
> put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
> to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
> decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
> successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
> matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it 
> wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac 
> mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what 
> should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed 
> in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the 
> wrong answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get 
> it to read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed 
> Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to try differing 
> combinations of keys I had never tried before to see what it would say.  I 
> was trying the function keys, and hit a key at the very right end of them, 
> and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get VoiceOver talking again.  I 
> tried the three-finger triple tap on the track pad,then the three-finger 
> double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned the track pad commander 
> off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, nothing.  And this was 
> my last day.
>  
> I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have 
> gone back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got 
> it, but it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested 
> in the thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account 
> than I wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from 
> Costco, and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought 
> the Lenovo first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  
> Sometime before Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be 
> another good deal come through Costco.
>  
> I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did.  But it ended up being so 
> much tedium and frustration to me, as compared to what I already know, with 
> not all that much seeming benefit in the end. I fully expected not to know 
> what I was doing for a while, but I thought it would have begun to get easier 
> by yesterday, which, I guess, it wasn't, even with the two books I have. 
>  
> Arnold Schmidt  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
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My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

2016-07-06 Thread Arnold Schmidt

I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two weeks, 
concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  

To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.  

Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip to 
return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I decided 
to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I successfully 
passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no matter what I 
tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it wanted answered.  No 
problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac mini.  I could tell  the 
location for the answer field, I could find what should have been the question 
field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed in the answer to one of my 
security questions, which, of course, was the wrong answer for the question it 
was asking.  I am sure the inability to get it to read the security question 
was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed Safari, then decided to turn on 
keyboard help, just to try differing combinations of keys I had never tried 
before to see what it would say.  I was trying the function keys, and hit a key 
at the very right end of them, and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get 
VoiceOver talking again.  I tried the three-finger triple tap on the track 
pad,then the three-finger double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned 
the track pad commander off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, 
nothing.  And this was my last day.

I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have gone 
back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got it, but 
it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested in the 
thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account than I 
wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from Costco, 
and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought the Lenovo 
first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  Sometime before 
Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be another good deal 
come through Costco.

I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did.  But it ended up being so 
much tedium and frustration to me, as compared to what I already know, with not 
all that much seeming benefit in the end. I fully expected not to know what I 
was doing for a while, but I thought it would have begun to get easier by 
yesterday, which, I guess, it wasn't, even with the two books I have.  

Arnold Schmidt  

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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