Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Scott Granados]

Chris, would you send me another invite to your list please?  I lost the email 
do to a fat finger error.:)

> On Sep 17, 2015, at 5:27 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Oh, I didn't want it to come across as I was wishing to join because of 
> anything Marc did or didn't do.  If it did come across that way, then my 
> apology.  I was just wanting to subscribe so that I'd have another Apple 
> resource under my toolbelt.  You know what I mean?
>  
> I do have Joseph's e-mail address, so I'll write him privately; that's 
> certainly not a problem at all.
>  
> Chris.
> - Original Message - 
>> From: Shawn Krasniuk <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 9:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>> 
>> To join Peel The Apple, send a blank email to 
>> peel-the-apple+subscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:peel-the-apple+subscr...@googlegroups.com>. As for Blind Apples, 
>> you're on the iPhone list right? If so, do you know a guy named Joseph 
>> Hudson? Email him and he'll get you subscribed to his list. And Mac For The 
>> Blind is a FreeList mailing list so doing a google search should give you 
>> the subscribe link for their mailing list. In my opinion though, Mark has 
>> made everything right in the world now so we can stay put if we want right?
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 6:57 AM, Jessica Moss <junglebookfa...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Can you please give me the irk for these lists?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>> <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted 
>>>> my opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say 
>>>> that if this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the 
>>>> Mac, then sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will 
>>>> do and take my talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that 
>>>> let people talk about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The 
>>>> Apple, has an off topic weekend where people can talk about anything, 
>>>> Windows, Android, even Jaws. The other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind 
>>>> Apples list and John P's Mac For The Blind list. So as you can see I have 
>>>> a lot of resources at my disposal. One more thing, the sad day will be 
>>>> when I do unsubscribe because I share Kawal's sentiments in that I've met 
>>>> a ton of awesome people and I even have some of you on Skype and social 
>>>> media. So it will be sad if I do unsubscribe because these past 5 years 
>>>> with you guys were awesome and to those of you that don't have me on Skype 
>>>> or social media, I'll miss you a lot.
>>>> 
>>>> Shawn
>>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com 
>>>>> <mailto:kilbu...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I 
>>>>> joined 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful 
>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Later...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>>>>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Obviously he

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Jessica Moss]

Ok cool, thanx for the info; I'm not on the IPhone list, so don't know who this 
person is.  I barely have time to check my e-mail anymore so really don't want 
to join multiple lists if I can help it, but will check these out.
On Sep 16, 2015, at 9:25 PM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote:

> To join Peel The Apple, send a blank email to 
> peel-the-apple+subscr...@googlegroups.com. As for Blind Apples, you're on the 
> iPhone list right? If so, do you know a guy named Joseph Hudson? Email him 
> and he'll get you subscribed to his list. And Mac For The Blind is a FreeList 
> mailing list so doing a google search should give you the subscribe link for 
> their mailing list. In my opinion though, Mark has made everything right in 
> the world now so we can stay put if we want right?
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 6:57 AM, Jessica Moss <junglebookfa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Can you please give me the irk for these lists?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted my 
>>> opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say that 
>>> if this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the Mac, 
>>> then sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will do and 
>>> take my talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that let 
>>> people talk about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The Apple, has 
>>> an off topic weekend where people can talk about anything, Windows, 
>>> Android, even Jaws. The other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind Apples list and 
>>> John P's Mac For The Blind list. So as you can see I have a lot of 
>>> resources at my disposal. One more thing, the sad day will be when I do 
>>> unsubscribe because I share Kawal's sentiments in that I've met a ton of 
>>> awesome people and I even have some of you on Skype and social media. So it 
>>> will be sad if I do unsubscribe because these past 5 years with you guys 
>>> were awesome and to those of you that don't have me on Skype or social 
>>> media, I'll miss you a lot.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I 
>>>> joined 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful 
>>>> elsewhere.
>>>> 
>>>> Later...
>>>> 
>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>>>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>>>> 
>>>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any 
>>>> idiot knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and 
>>>> software as well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad 
>>>> still another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the 
>>>> entire ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then 
>>>> stifle conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know 
>>>> the VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  
>>>> As several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple 
>>>> product line and also presented was this list predates any others and as 
>>>> such previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I 
>>>> will of course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in 
>>>> subscribing to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  
>>>> Mark, your users don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t 
>>>> make sense and doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>>>> 
>>>> Enjoy!
&g

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Oh, I didn't want it to come across as I was wishing to join because of 
anything Marc did or didn't do.  If it did come across that way, then my 
apology.  I was just wanting to subscribe so that I'd have another Apple 
resource under my toolbelt.  You know what I mean?

I do have Joseph's e-mail address, so I'll write him privately; that's 
certainly not a problem at all.

Chris.
- Original Message - 
  From: Shawn Krasniuk 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 9:25 PM
  Subject: Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?


  To join Peel The Apple, send a blank email to 
peel-the-apple+subscr...@googlegroups.com. As for Blind Apples, you're on the 
iPhone list right? If so, do you know a guy named Joseph Hudson? Email him and 
he'll get you subscribed to his list. And Mac For The Blind is a FreeList 
mailing list so doing a google search should give you the subscribe link for 
their mailing list. In my opinion though, Mark has made everything right in the 
world now so we can stay put if we want right?


  Shawn
  Sent From My White MacBook
  Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
  Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
  Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
  Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Sep 16, 2015, at 6:57 AM, Jessica Moss <junglebookfa...@gmail.com> wrote:


Can you please give me the irk for these lists?

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote:


  I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted 
my opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say that 
if this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the Mac, then 
sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will do and take my 
talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that let people talk 
about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The Apple, has an off topic 
weekend where people can talk about anything, Windows, Android, even Jaws. The 
other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind Apples list and John P's Mac For The Blind 
list. So as you can see I have a lot of resources at my disposal. One more 
thing, the sad day will be when I do unsubscribe because I share Kawal's 
sentiments in that I've met a ton of awesome people and I even have some of you 
on Skype and social media. So it will be sad if I do unsubscribe because these 
past 5 years with you guys were awesome and to those of you that don't have me 
on Skype or social media, I'll miss you a lot.


  Shawn
  Sent From My White MacBook
  Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
  Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
  Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
  Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> wrote:


Hi,


I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I 
joined 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful 
elsewhere.


Later...


Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada 


On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response 
from Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.


Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any 
idiot knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software 
as well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still 
another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire 
ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle 
conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the VIPhone 
list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As several stated 
they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple product line and also 
presented was this list predates any others and as such previously was a 
clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I will of course comply by 
leaving the list as I have no interest in subscribing to yet more lists and I 
hope his power trip was satisfying.  Mark, your users don’t want this so why 
enforce something that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t meet the needs of the 
many users who have spoken up?


Enjoy!







  Begin forwarded message:


  From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>

  Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 
6S?

  Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT

  To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>

  Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>



  Hello Scott,

  As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would 
have appreciated the same courtesy.

  While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that 
this lis

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Yeah Chris I know what you mean. It's good to have multiple resources out there 
to turn to. I'm subscribed to these other lists because if one list doesn't 
know how to solve my Mac and iPhone problems, another list will.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Sep 17, 2015, at 4:27 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Oh, I didn't want it to come across as I was wishing to join because of 
> anything Marc did or didn't do.  If it did come across that way, then my 
> apology.  I was just wanting to subscribe so that I'd have another Apple 
> resource under my toolbelt.  You know what I mean?
>  
> I do have Joseph's e-mail address, so I'll write him privately; that's 
> certainly not a problem at all.
>  
> Chris.
> - Original Message - 
>> From: Shawn Krasniuk <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 9:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>> 
>> To join Peel The Apple, send a blank email to 
>> peel-the-apple+subscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:peel-the-apple+subscr...@googlegroups.com>. As for Blind Apples, 
>> you're on the iPhone list right? If so, do you know a guy named Joseph 
>> Hudson? Email him and he'll get you subscribed to his list. And Mac For The 
>> Blind is a FreeList mailing list so doing a google search should give you 
>> the subscribe link for their mailing list. In my opinion though, Mark has 
>> made everything right in the world now so we can stay put if we want right?
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 6:57 AM, Jessica Moss <junglebookfa...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Can you please give me the irk for these lists?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>> <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted 
>>>> my opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say 
>>>> that if this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the 
>>>> Mac, then sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will 
>>>> do and take my talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that 
>>>> let people talk about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The 
>>>> Apple, has an off topic weekend where people can talk about anything, 
>>>> Windows, Android, even Jaws. The other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind 
>>>> Apples list and John P's Mac For The Blind list. So as you can see I have 
>>>> a lot of resources at my disposal. One more thing, the sad day will be 
>>>> when I do unsubscribe because I share Kawal's sentiments in that I've met 
>>>> a ton of awesome people and I even have some of you on Skype and social 
>>>> media. So it will be sad if I do unsubscribe because these past 5 years 
>>>> with you guys were awesome and to those of you that don't have me on Skype 
>>>> or social media, I'll miss you a lot.
>>>> 
>>>> Shawn
>>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com 
>>>>> <mailto:kilbu...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I 
>>>>> joined 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful 
>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Later...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>&

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Jessica Moss]

Can you please give me the irk for these lists?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted my 
> opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say that if 
> this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the Mac, then 
> sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will do and take 
> my talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that let people 
> talk about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The Apple, has an off 
> topic weekend where people can talk about anything, Windows, Android, even 
> Jaws. The other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind Apples list and John P's Mac 
> For The Blind list. So as you can see I have a lot of resources at my 
> disposal. One more thing, the sad day will be when I do unsubscribe because I 
> share Kawal's sentiments in that I've met a ton of awesome people and I even 
> have some of you on Skype and social media. So it will be sad if I do 
> unsubscribe because these past 5 years with you guys were awesome and to 
> those of you that don't have me on Skype or social media, I'll miss you a lot.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I joined 
>> 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful elsewhere.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>> 
>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any idiot 
>> knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software as 
>> well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still 
>> another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire 
>> ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle 
>> conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the 
>> VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As 
>> several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple product 
>> line and also presented was this list predates any others and as such 
>> previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I will of 
>> course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in subscribing to 
>> yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  Mark, your users 
>> don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t 
>> meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>> 
>> Enjoy!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
>>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>> 
>>> Hello Scott,
>>> 
>>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>>> 
>>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this 
>>> list is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
>>> 
>>> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>> 
>>> This is bogus.
>>> 
>>> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  Non 
>>> apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves 
>>> interoperation with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that 
>>> product.
>>> 
>>> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
>

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Jessica Moss]

Join the club, I'd hate to leave his list, but if that's what it takes for us 
to be able to discuss these products more freely then so be it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 7:45 AM, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com> wrote:
> 
> Shawn, I second every sentiment in your message.  Like you, I'm going to wait 
> and see how things settle out before leaving, but yes, if this list only 
> allows discussion of the Mac, I will be leaving as well.  Doing that would 
> make me very sad, I would miss all of you!  As I've written before, this has 
> been one of the best lists I've ever been on.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 12:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted my 
>> opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say that 
>> if this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the Mac, 
>> then sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will do and 
>> take my talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that let 
>> people talk about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The Apple, has 
>> an off topic weekend where people can talk about anything, Windows, Android, 
>> even Jaws. The other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind Apples list and John P's 
>> Mac For The Blind list. So as you can see I have a lot of resources at my 
>> disposal. One more thing, the sad day will be when I do unsubscribe because 
>> I share Kawal's sentiments in that I've met a ton of awesome people and I 
>> even have some of you on Skype and social media. So it will be sad if I do 
>> unsubscribe because these past 5 years with you guys were awesome and to 
>> those of you that don't have me on Skype or social media, I'll miss you a 
>> lot.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I 
>>> joined 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful 
>>> elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>>> 
>>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any 
>>> idiot knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and 
>>> software as well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad 
>>> still another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the 
>>> entire ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then 
>>> stifle conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know 
>>> the VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As 
>>> several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple product 
>>> line and also presented was this list predates any others and as such 
>>> previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I will 
>>> of course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in subscribing 
>>> to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  Mark, your 
>>> users don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t make sense and 
>>> doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>>> 
>>> Enjoy!
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> 
>>>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>>>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Scott,
>>>> 
>>>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>>>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>>>> 
>>>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this 
>>>> list is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
&

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[sadam . lists]

I, too, will be leaving if this doesn't clear up. 

To limit the discussion to Mac OS X is ridiculous. 

Sent from my iPhone 

-- 



> On 16 Sep 2015, at 9:57 pm, Jessica Moss <junglebookfa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Can you please give me the irk for these lists?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted my 
>> opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say that 
>> if this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the Mac, 
>> then sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will do and 
>> take my talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that let 
>> people talk about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The Apple, has 
>> an off topic weekend where people can talk about anything, Windows, Android, 
>> even Jaws. The other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind Apples list and John P's 
>> Mac For The Blind list. So as you can see I have a lot of resources at my 
>> disposal. One more thing, the sad day will be when I do unsubscribe because 
>> I share Kawal's sentiments in that I've met a ton of awesome people and I 
>> even have some of you on Skype and social media. So it will be sad if I do 
>> unsubscribe because these past 5 years with you guys were awesome and to 
>> those of you that don't have me on Skype or social media, I'll miss you a 
>> lot.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I 
>>> joined 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful 
>>> elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>>> 
>>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any 
>>> idiot knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and 
>>> software as well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad 
>>> still another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the 
>>> entire ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then 
>>> stifle conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know 
>>> the VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As 
>>> several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple product 
>>> line and also presented was this list predates any others and as such 
>>> previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I will 
>>> of course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in subscribing 
>>> to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  Mark, your 
>>> users don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t make sense and 
>>> doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>>> 
>>> Enjoy!
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> 
>>>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List:  RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>>>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Scott,
>>>> 
>>>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>>>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>>>> 
>>>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this 
>>>> list is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
>>>> 
>>>> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> 
>>>> Mark
>>>> 
>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behal

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Donna Goodin]

Shawn, I second every sentiment in your message.  Like you, I'm going to wait 
and see how things settle out before leaving, but yes, if this list only allows 
discussion of the Mac, I will be leaving as well.  Doing that would make me 
very sad, I would miss all of you!  As I've written before, this has been one 
of the best lists I've ever been on.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 16, 2015, at 12:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted my 
> opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say that if 
> this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the Mac, then 
> sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will do and take 
> my talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that let people 
> talk about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The Apple, has an off 
> topic weekend where people can talk about anything, Windows, Android, even 
> Jaws. The other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind Apples list and John P's Mac 
> For The Blind list. So as you can see I have a lot of resources at my 
> disposal. One more thing, the sad day will be when I do unsubscribe because I 
> share Kawal's sentiments in that I've met a ton of awesome people and I even 
> have some of you on Skype and social media. So it will be sad if I do 
> unsubscribe because these past 5 years with you guys were awesome and to 
> those of you that don't have me on Skype or social media, I'll miss you a lot.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com 
>> <mailto:kilbu...@me.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I joined 
>> 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful elsewhere.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>> 
>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any idiot 
>> knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software as 
>> well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still 
>> another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire 
>> ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle 
>> conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the 
>> VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As 
>> several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple product 
>> line and also presented was this list predates any others and as such 
>> previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I will of 
>> course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in subscribing to 
>> yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  Mark, your users 
>> don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t 
>> meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>> 
>> Enjoy!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
>>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>
>>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com <mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>>
>>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>
>>> 
>>> Hello Scott,
>>> 
>>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>>> 
>>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this 
>>> list is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
>>> 
>>> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googleg

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Devin Prater]

Well, the way I see it is that ow is the peel the Apple list. We can always 
move there. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 7:01 AM, Jessica Moss <junglebookfa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Join the club, I'd hate to leave his list, but if that's what it takes for us 
> to be able to discuss these products more freely then so be it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 7:45 AM, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Shawn, I second every sentiment in your message.  Like you, I'm going to 
>> wait and see how things settle out before leaving, but yes, if this list 
>> only allows discussion of the Mac, I will be leaving as well.  Doing that 
>> would make me very sad, I would miss all of you!  As I've written before, 
>> this has been one of the best lists I've ever been on.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 12:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted my 
>>> opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say that 
>>> if this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the Mac, 
>>> then sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will do and 
>>> take my talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that let 
>>> people talk about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The Apple, has 
>>> an off topic weekend where people can talk about anything, Windows, 
>>> Android, even Jaws. The other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind Apples list and 
>>> John P's Mac For The Blind list. So as you can see I have a lot of 
>>> resources at my disposal. One more thing, the sad day will be when I do 
>>> unsubscribe because I share Kawal's sentiments in that I've met a ton of 
>>> awesome people and I even have some of you on Skype and social media. So it 
>>> will be sad if I do unsubscribe because these past 5 years with you guys 
>>> were awesome and to those of you that don't have me on Skype or social 
>>> media, I'll miss you a lot.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I 
>>>> joined 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful 
>>>> elsewhere.
>>>> 
>>>> Later...
>>>> 
>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>>>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>>>> 
>>>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any 
>>>> idiot knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and 
>>>> software as well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad 
>>>> still another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the 
>>>> entire ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then 
>>>> stifle conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know 
>>>> the VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  
>>>> As several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple 
>>>> product line and also presented was this list predates any others and as 
>>>> such previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I 
>>>> will of course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in 
>>>> subscribing to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  
>>>> Mark, your users don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t 
>>>> make sense and doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>>>> 
>>>> Enjoy!
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>>>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>&

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Shawn Krasniuk]

To join Peel The Apple, send a blank email to 
peel-the-apple+subscr...@googlegroups.com. As for Blind Apples, you're on the 
iPhone list right? If so, do you know a guy named Joseph Hudson? Email him and 
he'll get you subscribed to his list. And Mac For The Blind is a FreeList 
mailing list so doing a google search should give you the subscribe link for 
their mailing list. In my opinion though, Mark has made everything right in the 
world now so we can stay put if we want right?

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 6:57 AM, Jessica Moss <junglebookfa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Can you please give me the irk for these lists?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com 
> <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>> wrote:
> 
>> I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted my 
>> opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say that 
>> if this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the Mac, 
>> then sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will do and 
>> take my talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that let 
>> people talk about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The Apple, has 
>> an off topic weekend where people can talk about anything, Windows, Android, 
>> even Jaws. The other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind Apples list and John P's 
>> Mac For The Blind list. So as you can see I have a lot of resources at my 
>> disposal. One more thing, the sad day will be when I do unsubscribe because 
>> I share Kawal's sentiments in that I've met a ton of awesome people and I 
>> even have some of you on Skype and social media. So it will be sad if I do 
>> unsubscribe because these past 5 years with you guys were awesome and to 
>> those of you that don't have me on Skype or social media, I'll miss you a 
>> lot.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com 
>>> <mailto:kilbu...@me.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I 
>>> joined 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful 
>>> elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>>> 
>>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any 
>>> idiot knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and 
>>> software as well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad 
>>> still another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the 
>>> entire ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then 
>>> stifle conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know 
>>> the VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As 
>>> several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple product 
>>> line and also presented was this list predates any others and as such 
>>> previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I will 
>>> of course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in subscribing 
>>> to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  Mark, your 
>>> users don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t make sense and 
>>> doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>>> 
>>> Enjoy!
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> 
>>>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>
>>>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>>>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com <mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>>
>>>> Reply-To:

Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Jessica Moss]

In total agreement with you on that.
On Sep 15, 2015, at 2:52 PM, sadam.li...@gmail.com wrote:

> Apples products and services are all interconnected. 
> 
> To limit the discussion to Mac OS X would be very shortsighted. 
> 
> Just my two cents. 
> 
> Kind regards, 
> 
> Sadam Ahmed 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> On 16 Sep 2015, at 4:39 am, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps the AppleVis list might be more open to discussion of all Apple 
>> products.
>> 
>> Clearly the mod of this list is determined to rid the list of iOS 
>> altogether. 
>> 
>> David Tanner
>> 
>> From my iPhone 6 
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'd just like to add my +1 here.  these products are so interconnected that 
>>> to limit the list in that way would make for a much less useful list.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
 On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
 
 Hi Mark,
 
 I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that 
 MacVisionaries is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just 
 that, MacOS, iOS, Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the 
 iOS and its related hardware continually fades, I feel that it is very 
 beneficial to be able to discuss a wider range of Apple hardware/software 
 as it relates to accessibility on this list.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
 On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Hello Everyone,
 
 As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
 
 Thank you for understanding.
 
 Mark
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 
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 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
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 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
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-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[sadam . lists]

Glad you agree. :) 

There are many intelligent people on this list who know great deal about both 
platforms. 

It would be nice to get their opinions and viewpoints relating to both 
operating systems. 

Kind regards, 

Sadam Ahmed 

Sent from my iPhone 

-- 



> On 16 Sep 2015, at 10:35 am, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> In total agreement with you on that.
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 2:52 PM, sadam.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Apples products and services are all interconnected. 
>> 
>> To limit the discussion to Mac OS X would be very shortsighted. 
>> 
>> Just my two cents. 
>> 
>> Kind regards, 
>> 
>> Sadam Ahmed 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 16 Sep 2015, at 4:39 am, David Tanner  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Perhaps the AppleVis list might be more open to discussion of all Apple 
>>> products.
>>> 
>>> Clearly the mod of this list is determined to rid the list of iOS 
>>> altogether. 
>>> 
>>> David Tanner
>>> 
>>> From my iPhone 6 
>>> 
 On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 I'd just like to add my +1 here.  these products are so interconnected 
 that to limit the list in that way would make for a much less useful list.
 Best,
 Donna
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that 
> MacVisionaries is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just 
> that, MacOS, iOS, Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the 
> iOS and its related hardware continually fades, I feel that it is very 
> beneficial to be able to discuss a wider range of Apple hardware/software 
> as it relates to accessibility on this list.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
> 
> Thank you for understanding.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Shawn Krasniuk]

I'm gonna wait until Cara and Mark make their final judgements. I posted my 
opinions in another thread so I won't post them again, but I will say that if 
this list develops the strict rule that we can only talk about the Mac, then 
sorry to say, I'll be doing the same as others have and or will do and take my 
talents elsewhere. I'm subscribed to three other lists that let people talk 
about Mac and iPhone in one list, one list, Peel The Apple, has an off topic 
weekend where people can talk about anything, Windows, Android, even Jaws. The 
other two are Joseph Hudson's Blind Apples list and John P's Mac For The Blind 
list. So as you can see I have a lot of resources at my disposal. One more 
thing, the sad day will be when I do unsubscribe because I share Kawal's 
sentiments in that I've met a ton of awesome people and I even have some of you 
on Skype and social media. So it will be sad if I do unsubscribe because these 
past 5 years with you guys were awesome and to those of you that don't have me 
on Skype or social media, I'll miss you a lot.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I joined 
> 10 years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful elsewhere.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from Mark 
> sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
> 
> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any idiot 
> knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software as 
> well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still another. 
>  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire ecosystem your 
> moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle conversations 
> that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the VIPhone list is over 
> run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As several stated they wanted 
> a place here to discuss the entire Apple product line and also presented was 
> this list predates any others and as such previously was a clearinghouse for 
> all things Apple not just Mac.  I will of course comply by leaving the list 
> as I have no interest in subscribing to yet more lists and I hope his power 
> trip was satisfying.  Mark, your users don’t want this so why enforce 
> something that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t meet the needs of the many 
> users who have spoken up?
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
>  
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>
>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com <mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>>
>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>
>> 
>> Hello Scott,
>> 
>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>> 
>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this list 
>> is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
>> 
>> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>> 
>> This is bogus.
>> 
>> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  Non 
>> apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves 
>> interoperation with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that 
>> product.
>> 
>> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
>> There may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us 
>> don’t want to bother with more than one list
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu 
>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>

Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Devin Prater]

There's always the peel the apple list. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Maybe it’s about time to rid us of the Macvisionaries and Viphone lists 
> alltogether and merge them into one list and call it something like ”all 
> things Apple”, since iDevices and Macs and maybe even Apple Tv and definitely 
> AppleWatch are part of one whole thing namely the Apple echo system.
> /Krister
> 
>> 15 sep. 2015 kl. 20:39 skrev David Tanner :
>> 
>> Perhaps the AppleVis list might be more open to discussion of all Apple 
>> products.
>> 
>> Clearly the mod of this list is determined to rid the list of iOS 
>> altogether. 
>> 
>> David Tanner
>> 
>> From my iPhone 6 
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'd just like to add my +1 here.  these products are so interconnected that 
>>> to limit the list in that way would make for a much less useful list.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
 On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
 
 Hi Mark,
 
 I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that 
 MacVisionaries is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just 
 that, MacOS, iOS, Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the 
 iOS and its related hardware continually fades, I feel that it is very 
 beneficial to be able to discuss a wider range of Apple hardware/software 
 as it relates to accessibility on this list.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
 On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Hello Everyone,
 
 As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
 
 Thank you for understanding.
 
 Mark
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 
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 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
> -- 
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Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I agree with you Scott.  This is not the sentiment of the list that I joined 10 
years ago.  I will sign off of this one.  Can be more useful elsewhere.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from Mark 
sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.

Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any idiot 
knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software as 
well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still another.  
So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire ecosystem your 
moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle conversations that 
don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the VIPhone list is over run 
with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As several stated they wanted a 
place here to discuss the entire Apple product line and also presented was this 
list predates any others and as such previously was a clearinghouse for all 
things Apple not just Mac.  I will of course comply by leaving the list as I 
have no interest in subscribing to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was 
satisfying.  Mark, your users don’t want this so why enforce something that 
doesn’t make sense and doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken 
up?

Enjoy!

 


> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>
> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com <mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>
> 
> Hello Scott,
> 
> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
> appreciated the same courtesy.
> 
> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this list 
> is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
> 
> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
> 
> This is bogus.
> 
> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  Non 
> apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves interoperation 
> with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that product.
> 
> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
> There may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us 
> don’t want to bother with more than one list
> 
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu 
> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
> 
> Thank you for understanding.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
> 


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Fwd: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Scott Granados]

I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from Mark 
sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.

Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any idiot 
knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software as 
well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still another.  
So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire ecosystem your 
moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle conversations that 
don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the VIPhone list is over run 
with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As several stated they wanted a 
place here to discuss the entire Apple product line and also presented was this 
list predates any others and as such previously was a clearinghouse for all 
things Apple not just Mac.  I will of course comply by leaving the list as I 
have no interest in subscribing to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was 
satisfying.  Mark, your users don’t want this so why enforce something that 
doesn’t make sense and doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken 
up?

Enjoy!

 


> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
> 
> Hello Scott,
> 
> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
> appreciated the same courtesy.
> 
> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this list 
> is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
> 
> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
> 
> This is bogus.
> 
> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  Non 
> apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves interoperation 
> with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that product.
> 
> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
> There may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us 
> don’t want to bother with more than one list
> 
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
> 
> Thank you for understanding.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
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> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 

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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[David Tanner]

Perhaps the AppleVis list might be more open to discussion of all Apple 
products.

Clearly the mod of this list is determined to rid the list of iOS altogether. 

David Tanner

>From my iPhone 6 

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'd just like to add my +1 here.  these products are so interconnected that 
> to limit the list in that way would make for a much less useful list.
> Best,
> Donna
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that MacVisionaries 
>> is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just that, MacOS, iOS, 
>> Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the iOS and its related 
>> hardware continually fades, I feel that it is very beneficial to be able to 
>> discuss a wider range of Apple hardware/software as it relates to 
>> accessibility on this list.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
>> 
>> Thank you for understanding.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[sadam . lists]

Apples products and services are all interconnected. 

To limit the discussion to Mac OS X would be very shortsighted. 

Just my two cents. 

Kind regards, 

Sadam Ahmed 

Sent from my iPhone 

-- 



> On 16 Sep 2015, at 4:39 am, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the AppleVis list might be more open to discussion of all Apple 
> products.
> 
> Clearly the mod of this list is determined to rid the list of iOS altogether. 
> 
> David Tanner
> 
> From my iPhone 6 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'd just like to add my +1 here.  these products are so interconnected that 
>> to limit the list in that way would make for a much less useful list.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mark,
>>> 
>>> I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that 
>>> MacVisionaries is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just 
>>> that, MacOS, iOS, Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the 
>>> iOS and its related hardware continually fades, I feel that it is very 
>>> beneficial to be able to discuss a wider range of Apple hardware/software 
>>> as it relates to accessibility on this list.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for understanding.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[David Tanner]

That's one of the things I like about this list. There's always someone with a 
hateful comment to make towards other users of the list. Maybe you should be 
disciplined.

David Tanner

>From my iPhone 6 

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 10:02 AM, george b <gbma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Ok why don't you all sent this to him personally he gave you his email so we 
> do not have to read all this crap.  And yes can deleate, but non of you have 
> the respect to change the subject line, and yes I did not so you all who do 
> not change it see this
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 07:46
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
> 
> Mark,
>Please keep in mind that this list was under moderated for a very 
> long time. Now its being over moderated.
> 
>There is also no published list guidelines. This can make your 
> rulings arbitrary. Not the best course to take.
> 
>Its impossible nowadays to separate OS X from iOS. Let's find middle 
> ground we can live with.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 9/15/2015 1:15 AM, M. Taylor wrote:
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
>> 
>> Thank you for understanding.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
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>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi,
Maybe it’s about time to rid us of the Macvisionaries and Viphone lists 
alltogether and merge them into one list and call it something like ”all things 
Apple”, since iDevices and Macs and maybe even Apple Tv and definitely 
AppleWatch are part of one whole thing namely the Apple echo system.
/Krister

> 15 sep. 2015 kl. 20:39 skrev David Tanner :
> 
> Perhaps the AppleVis list might be more open to discussion of all Apple 
> products.
> 
> Clearly the mod of this list is determined to rid the list of iOS altogether. 
> 
> David Tanner
> 
> From my iPhone 6 
> 
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'd just like to add my +1 here.  these products are so interconnected that 
>> to limit the list in that way would make for a much less useful list.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Tim Kilburn >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mark,
>>> 
>>> I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that 
>>> MacVisionaries is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just 
>>> that, MacOS, iOS, Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the 
>>> iOS and its related hardware continually fades, I feel that it is very 
>>> beneficial to be able to discuss a wider range of Apple hardware/software 
>>> as it relates to accessibility on this list.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for understanding.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
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>>> .
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>>> .
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>>> .
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

I'd just like to add my +1 here.  these products are so interconnected that to 
limit the list in that way would make for a much less useful list.
Best,
Donna
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that MacVisionaries 
> is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just that, MacOS, iOS, 
> Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the iOS and its related 
> hardware continually fades, I feel that it is very beneficial to be able to 
> discuss a wider range of Apple hardware/software as it relates to 
> accessibility on this list.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor > 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
> 
> Thank you for understanding.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> .
> 
> 
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Tim Kilburn]

George,

I don't see any reason why anyone should have changed the Subject line here as 
our messages are directly related to the original post.  Yes, we could have 
posted directly to Mark, but it was a conscious decision to post our opinions 
to the group as, at least in my case, I felt that it would encourage others to 
express their opinions on the Moderator note.

Also, I really don't appreciate the tone expressed in your note.  Each of us 
directed our comments at the decision, not at the person or people who made it. 
 The only disrespectful post in the lot came from yourself.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2015, at 09:02, george b <gbma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok why don't you all sent this to him personally he gave you his email so we do 
not have to read all this crap.  And yes can deleate, but non of you have the 
respect to change the subject line, and yes I did not so you all who do not 
change it see this

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 07:46
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

Mark,
   Please keep in mind that this list was under moderated for a very 
long time. Now its being over moderated.

   There is also no published list guidelines. This can make your 
rulings arbitrary. Not the best course to take.

   Its impossible nowadays to separate OS X from iOS. Let's find middle 
ground we can live with.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/15/2015 1:15 AM, M. Taylor wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
> 
> Thank you for understanding.
> 
> Mark
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
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> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[george b]

Ok why don't you all sent this to him personally he gave you his email so we do 
not have to read all this crap.  And yes can deleate, but non of you have the 
respect to change the subject line, and yes I did not so you all who do not 
change it see this

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 07:46
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

Mark,
Please keep in mind that this list was under moderated for a very 
long time. Now its being over moderated.

There is also no published list guidelines. This can make your 
rulings arbitrary. Not the best course to take.

Its impossible nowadays to separate OS X from iOS. Let's find middle 
ground we can live with.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/15/2015 1:15 AM, M. Taylor wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
>
> Thank you for understanding.
>
> Mark
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
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> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Although I respect the wishes of the list owners (they are running the list, 
after all) it’s certainly true that I would prefer to discuss related Apple 
technology on this list and would prefer not to be on the ViPhone list.  Part 
of the reason, ironically, is the relevance of traffic: there are significantly 
more iOS users and therefore a significantly larger share of off-topic 
messages, even those that pertain to iOS, especially with such a broad range of 
third-party software on that platform.  Generalisation or not, the spirit 
brothers and sisters on this list make it substantially worth my while to check 
in every so often and participate because we generally share a lot in common, 
which includes discussion about up-and-coming products.  As long as I’m not 
spending most of my time deleting messages about accessories and apps I’ve 
never heard of, chances are good I’ll stay.

But it’s ultimately up to the list owners.  Whatever they say goes.  Anybody in 
significant disagreement can always go elsewhere, and I’ll probably find them 
out.

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Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Well Scott.

Coming late to this, I for one want to discuss IoS on one list like you.  If I 
can't I might as well unsubscribe although I like this list so those of you who 
want one list should speak up and vote with your keyboard that we want one list 
to discuss all Apple products.
On 15 Sep 2015, at 19:15, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from Mark 
sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.

Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any idiot 
knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software as 
well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still another.  
So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire ecosystem your 
moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle conversations that 
don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the VIPhone list is over run 
with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As several stated they wanted a 
place here to discuss the entire Apple product line and also presented was this 
list predates any others and as such previously was a clearinghouse for all 
things Apple not just Mac.  I will of course comply by leaving the list as I 
have no interest in subscribing to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was 
satisfying.  Mark, your users don’t want this so why enforce something that 
doesn’t make sense and doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken 
up?

Enjoy!

 


> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
> 
> Hello Scott,
> 
> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
> appreciated the same courtesy.
> 
> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this list 
> is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
> 
> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
> 
> This is bogus.
> 
> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  Non 
> apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves interoperation 
> with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that product.
> 
> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
> There may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us 
> don’t want to bother with more than one list
> 
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
> 
> Thank you for understanding.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Phil Halton]

OK, I guess that means that in Mark's official judgment any discussion of iOS 
TV OS or Apple Watch is forbidden, h!
Just keeps getting stranger and stranger.
Sent from my IPhone


> On Sep 15, 2015, at 2:15 PM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from Mark 
> sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
> 
> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any idiot 
> knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software as 
> well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still another. 
>  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire ecosystem your 
> moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle conversations 
> that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the VIPhone list is over 
> run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As several stated they wanted 
> a place here to discuss the entire Apple product line and also presented was 
> this list predates any others and as such previously was a clearinghouse for 
> all things Apple not just Mac.  I will of course comply by leaving the list 
> as I have no interest in subscribing to yet more lists and I hope his power 
> trip was satisfying.  Mark, your users don’t want this so why enforce 
> something that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t meet the needs of the many 
> users who have spoken up?
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
>  
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
>> 
>> Hello Scott,
>> 
>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>> 
>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this list 
>> is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
>> 
>> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>> 
>> This is bogus.
>> 
>> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  Non 
>> apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves 
>> interoperation with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that 
>> product.
>> 
>> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
>> There may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us 
>> don’t want to bother with more than one list
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
>> 
>> Thank you for understanding.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
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Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

May be this list has become over moderated if there is such a word.  I 
remember, once we were not permitted to discuss Windows and that was a one day 
wonder.  Will this be?
On 15 Sep 2015, at 21:07, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com> wrote:

OK, I guess that means that in Mark's official judgment any discussion of iOS 
TV OS or Apple Watch is forbidden, h!
Just keeps getting stranger and stranger.
Sent from my IPhone


On Sep 15, 2015, at 2:15 PM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from Mark 
> sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
> 
> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any idiot 
> knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software as 
> well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still another. 
>  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire ecosystem your 
> moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle conversations 
> that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the VIPhone list is over 
> run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As several stated they wanted 
> a place here to discuss the entire Apple product line and also presented was 
> this list predates any others and as such previously was a clearinghouse for 
> all things Apple not just Mac.  I will of course comply by leaving the list 
> as I have no interest in subscribing to yet more lists and I hope his power 
> trip was satisfying.  Mark, your users don’t want this so why enforce 
> something that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t meet the needs of the many 
> users who have spoken up?
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
>  
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
>> 
>> Hello Scott,
>> 
>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>> 
>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this list 
>> is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
>> 
>> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>> 
>> This is bogus.
>> 
>> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  Non 
>> apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves 
>> interoperation with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that 
>> product.
>> 
>> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
>> There may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us 
>> don’t want to bother with more than one list
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
>> 
>> Thank you for understanding.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
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Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Terje Strømberg]

This should be an Apple list i.e. includes all apple hardware and apple 
software.

Take care

15. sep. 2015 kl. 23:11 skrev Devin Prater <d.pra...@me.com>:

Oh, the sad irony. But alas, people only want the "give us what we want then do 
what we want" kind of deal. Is it so hard to take this to the viPhone list? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I find it rather interesting that only a few days ago, people were 
> complaining that this list was not being moderated. Now that Marcus volunteer 
> to do this, people are up in arms. It's a thankless job but I can't imagine 
> why anybody would ever want to do this.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:19 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> May be this list has become over moderated if there is such a word.  I 
>> remember, once we were not permitted to discuss Windows and that was a one 
>> day wonder.  Will this be?
>> On 15 Sep 2015, at 21:07, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> OK, I guess that means that in Mark's official judgment any discussion of 
>> iOS TV OS or Apple Watch is forbidden, h!
>> Just keeps getting stranger and stranger.
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 2:15 PM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>>> 
>>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any 
>>> idiot knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and 
>>> software as well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad 
>>> still another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the 
>>> entire ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then 
>>> stifle conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know 
>>> the VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As 
>>> several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple product 
>>> line and also presented was this list predates any others and as such 
>>> previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I will 
>>> of course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in subscribing 
>>> to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  Mark, your 
>>> users don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t make sense and 
>>> doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>>> 
>>> Enjoy!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> 
>>>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>>>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Scott,
>>>> 
>>>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>>>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>>>> 
>>>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this 
>>>> list is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
>>>> 
>>>> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> 
>>>> Mark
>>>> 
>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>>> 
>>>> This is bogus.
>>>> 
>>>> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  
>>>> Non apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves 
>>>> interoperation with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that 
>>>> product.
>>>> 
>>>> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
>>>> There may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us 
>>>> don’t want to bother with more than one list
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor <mk..

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Les Kriegler]

I find it rather interesting that only a few days ago, people were complaining 
that this list was not being moderated. Now that Marcus volunteer to do this, 
people are up in arms. It's a thankless job but I can't imagine why anybody 
would ever want to do this.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:19 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> May be this list has become over moderated if there is such a word.  I 
> remember, once we were not permitted to discuss Windows and that was a one 
> day wonder.  Will this be?
> On 15 Sep 2015, at 21:07, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> OK, I guess that means that in Mark's official judgment any discussion of iOS 
> TV OS or Apple Watch is forbidden, h!
> Just keeps getting stranger and stranger.
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 2:15 PM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>> 
>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any idiot 
>> knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and software as 
>> well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad still 
>> another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the entire 
>> ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then stifle 
>> conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know the 
>> VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As 
>> several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple product 
>> line and also presented was this list predates any others and as such 
>> previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I will of 
>> course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in subscribing to 
>> yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  Mark, your users 
>> don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t 
>> meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>> 
>> Enjoy!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
>>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>> 
>>> Hello Scott,
>>> 
>>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>>> 
>>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this 
>>> list is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
>>> 
>>> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>> 
>>> This is bogus.
>>> 
>>> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  Non 
>>> apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves 
>>> interoperation with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that 
>>> product.
>>> 
>>> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
>>> There may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us 
>>> don’t want to bother with more than one list
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for understanding.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/o

Re: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Devin Prater]

Oh, the sad irony. But alas, people only want the "give us what we want then do 
what we want" kind of deal. Is it so hard to take this to the viPhone list? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I find it rather interesting that only a few days ago, people were 
> complaining that this list was not being moderated. Now that Marcus volunteer 
> to do this, people are up in arms. It's a thankless job but I can't imagine 
> why anybody would ever want to do this.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:19 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> May be this list has become over moderated if there is such a word.  I 
>> remember, once we were not permitted to discuss Windows and that was a one 
>> day wonder.  Will this be?
>> On 15 Sep 2015, at 21:07, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> OK, I guess that means that in Mark's official judgment any discussion of 
>> iOS TV OS or Apple Watch is forbidden, h!
>> Just keeps getting stranger and stranger.
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 2:15 PM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought the rest of the list would be interested in this response from 
>>> Mark sent off list but I think he should have responded on list.
>>> 
>>> Obviously he has no interest in what we the users have requested.  Any 
>>> idiot knows that the Apple environment is an ecosystem of devices and 
>>> software as well as content.  The Mac is a part, the iPhone is a part, pad 
>>> still another.  So instead of having one logical place to discuss the 
>>> entire ecosystem your moderator wants to have super fragmentation and then 
>>> stifle conversations that don’t deal with the Mac specifically.  We know 
>>> the VIPhone list is over run with garbage messages and badly moderated.  As 
>>> several stated they wanted a place here to discuss the entire Apple product 
>>> line and also presented was this list predates any others and as such 
>>> previously was a clearinghouse for all things Apple not just Mac.  I will 
>>> of course comply by leaving the list as I have no interest in subscribing 
>>> to yet more lists and I hope his power trip was satisfying.  Mark, your 
>>> users don’t want this so why enforce something that doesn’t make sense and 
>>> doesn’t meet the needs of the many users who have spoken up?
>>> 
>>> Enjoy!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> 
>>>> From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>>> Subject: To Scott from Mark: Off-List: RE: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>>> Date: September 15, 2015 at 2:09:33 PM EDT
>>>> To: <scott.grana...@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: <mk...@ucla.edu>
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Scott,
>>>> 
>>>> As stated in the subject, I am replying to you, off-list.  I would have 
>>>> appreciated the same courtesy.
>>>> 
>>>> While I appreciate your sentiment on this, the bottom line is that this 
>>>> list is dedicated to Mac OSX products and services only.  
>>>> 
>>>> So I ask you to please respect this policy and close this thread.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> 
>>>> Mark
>>>> 
>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:02 AM
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?
>>>> 
>>>> This is bogus.
>>>> 
>>>> I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  
>>>> Non apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves 
>>>> interoperation with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that 
>>>> product.
>>>> 
>>>> This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  
>>>> There may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us 
>>>> don’t want to bother with more than one list
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken

Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Phil Halton]

I also think that you need to reconsider this Mark. I own to OS X devices and 
one iPhone. The iPhone gets the lion share of my use. I don't want to have to 
change list simply for this arbitrary division of devices. I continually 
monitor and use this list because it allows for all devices and on discussion 
of all Apple products. It wasn't too long ago we were discussing the heck out 
of the watch. I didn't mind that then because it's an Apple product and I think 
that iPhones definitely belong on this list.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Sep 15, 2015, at 9:59 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Short version - Me too
> Longer version
> VoiceOver was introduced April 2005, 10 years ago, as part of OSX 10.4. 
> MacVisionaries, the mailing list, was set up around that same month, best as 
> I can tell. It started as a Mac-only list because it predates the 
> introduction of the iPhone (June 2007), not to mention VoiceOver on the 
> iPhone (June 2009). I've argued previously that the name is now a bit of an 
> anachronism. The iOS halo effect and Apple's heavy push to integrate OSX 
> machines with iOS devices are well known. There is also a very high 
> correlation between Mac and iOS users (although not as much the other 
> direction). It seems clear that discussions of Voiceover are going to 
> easily ebb and flow between iOS and OSX by design. To artificially bifurcate 
> conversations into two buckets seems like a work of futility as it goes 
> against the reality of the Apple ecosystem/marketplace/common use case and, 
> most importantly, would decrease the value of the list to its members.
> 
> My previous post in April on this topic is at the link below which argues 
> similar points:
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg120224.html
> 
> CB
> 
>> On 9/15/15 9:11 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that MacVisionaries 
>> is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just that, MacOS, iOS, 
>> Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the iOS and its related 
>> hardware continually fades, I feel that it is very beneficial to be able to 
>> discuss a wider range of Apple hardware/software as it relates to 
>> accessibility on this list.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
>> 
>> Thank you for understanding.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

Short version - Me too
Longer version
VoiceOver was introduced April 2005, 10 years ago, as part of OSX 10.4. 
MacVisionaries, the mailing list, was set up around that same month, 
best as I can tell. It started as a Mac-only list because it predates 
the introduction of the iPhone (June 2007), not to mention VoiceOver on 
the iPhone (June 2009). I've argued previously that the name is now a 
bit of an anachronism. The iOS halo effect and Apple's heavy push to 
integrate OSX machines with iOS devices are well known. There is also a 
very high correlation between Mac and iOS users (although not as much 
the other direction). It seems clear that discussions of Voiceover are 
going to easily ebb and flow between iOS and OSX by design. To 
artificially bifurcate conversations into two buckets seems like a work 
of futility as it goes against the reality of the Apple 
ecosystem/marketplace/common use case and, most importantly, would 
decrease the value of the list to its members.


My previous post in April on this topic is at the link below which 
argues similar points:


https://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg120224.html

CB

On 9/15/15 9:11 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi Mark,

I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that 
MacVisionaries is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just 
that, MacOS, iOS, Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, 
the iOS and its related hardware continually fades, I feel that it is 
very beneficial to be able to discuss a wider range of Apple 
hardware/software as it relates to accessibility on this list.


Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor > wrote:


Hello Everyone,

As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.

Thank you for understanding.

Mark

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.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi Mark,

I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that MacVisionaries is 
an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just that, MacOS, iOS, Apple 
hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the iOS and its related hardware 
continually fades, I feel that it is very beneficial to be able to discuss a 
wider range of Apple hardware/software as it relates to accessibility on this 
list.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor  wrote:

Hello Everyone,

As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.

Thank you for understanding.

Mark

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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Scott Granados]

+1

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 9:11 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that MacVisionaries 
> is an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just that, MacOS, iOS, 
> Apple hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the iOS and its related 
> hardware continually fades, I feel that it is very beneficial to be able to 
> discuss a wider range of Apple hardware/software as it relates to 
> accessibility on this list.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor > 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
> 
> Thank you for understanding.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .
> 
> 
> -- 
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> .
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Karen Lewellen]

Agreed,
I started a different thread for fear of it being filtered.
Still the question is how solid the line may be between products anymore?
how many do you own, or would you own if you could?
Karen


On Tue, 15 Sep 2015, Tim Kilburn wrote:


Hi Mark,

I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that MacVisionaries is an 
"Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just that, MacOS, iOS, Apple 
hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the iOS and its related hardware 
continually fades, I feel that it is very beneficial to be able to discuss a wider range 
of Apple hardware/software as it relates to accessibility on this list.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor  wrote:

Hello Everyone,

As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.

Thank you for understanding.

Mark

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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Scott Granados]

This is bogus.

I absolutely ask you to reconsider.  Apple devices should be on topic.  Non 
apple devices should be on topic as long as the topic involves interoperation 
with Apple devices or comparisons of Apple devices to that product.

This list should allow the watch as well and support all Apple products.  There 
may be an iPhone list and that’s all well and good but a lot of us don’t want 
to bother with more than one list

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:15 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.
> 
> Thank you for understanding.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[E.T.]

Mark,
   Please keep in mind that this list was under moderated for a very 
long time. Now its being over moderated.


   There is also no published list guidelines. This can make your 
rulings arbitrary. Not the best course to take.


   Its impossible nowadays to separate OS X from iOS. Let's find middle 
ground we can live with.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/15/2015 1:15 AM, M. Taylor wrote:

Hello Everyone,

As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.

Thank you for understanding.

Mark

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Re: MODERATOR REQUEST: iPhone 6S?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

One final comment on this.  Emphasizing that this is not an iOS list narrows 
the discussion so much that it would exclude Apple TV questions, Apple Watch 
questions, as well as the iOS questions.  These are all part of the Apple 
Eco-System and interact in a manner that is meant to be inclusive.

Just my opinion of course, but, the lack of list moderation in the recent past 
focused on inappropriate expression within posts and the proliferation of 
inappropriate response messages that it caused.  I've actually enjoyed reading 
the insight and information relayed in this thread and have learned things.

I'll shut-up now.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2015, at 07:11, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi Mark,

I respectfully disagree.  It has been stated in the past that MacVisionaries is 
an "Everything Apple" list where we can discuss just that, MacOS, iOS, Apple 
hardware etc.  As the line between the MacOS, the iOS and its related hardware 
continually fades, I feel that it is very beneficial to be able to discuss a 
wider range of Apple hardware/software as it relates to accessibility on this 
list.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:15, M. Taylor > 
wrote:

Hello Everyone,

As this is not an iOS forum, I ask that this topic be taken off-list.

Thank you for understanding.

Mark

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