Re: Returning my iPad
Hi Bryan, Interesting to read an other view of the ipad usage. I want to pickup one thing, that I've also experienced on the iphone. Indeed, voice over didn't refresh the screen every time when it is refreshed visually. I did notice this on several apps and the main iphone screens. So I'm curious if someone else have the same experience and if this is already reported to accessibility? If you want, I can describe some situations where this is happening. Kind regards. -Peter Op 5-mei-2010, om 07:23 heeft Bryan Smart het volgende geschreven: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that swiping will continue from that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the top of the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the screen with some other skin while swiping, or if VoiceOver mistakenly interprets a swipe as a tap, then you'll lose your place, and need to start from the top of the screen. In the App Store in particular, I've swiped myself to frustration. The size of the screen is also not convenient for holding the iPad like you would the iPhone. It must rest on your lap or a table. And, with me pushing and tapping on it with both hands, I've had some situations where it has nearly slid off of my lap. With the screen being made of glass, that is not a great thought to ponder. So, I think that the screen size is not only wasted on blind users, but is also a drawback. The on-screen keyboard is a bit nicer to use on a large screen. However, the touch-typing mode makes even one-handed typing on a small screen a breeze. Besides that, the larger screen meant that a lot more arm motion was required to type on an iPad. I tried the two-handed typing approach in landscape mode, but find that, no matter how well you place your hands, typing is very mistake prone. For anyone that finds it hard to type for extended periods of time on the iPhone, you can use the iPad keyboard dock with it when
Re: Returning my iPad
Very good review, It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad. It was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon. I hope even the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us. Pleas. lol. I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, respectful, and concise manor. I think the list would benefit greatly from such a post instead of a emotion filled rant. lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that swiping will continue from that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the top of the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the screen with some other skin while swiping, or if VoiceOver mistakenly interprets a swipe as a tap, then you'll lose your place, and need to start from the top of the screen. In the App Store in particular, I've swiped myself to frustration. The size of the screen is also not convenient for holding the iPad like you would the iPhone. It must rest on your lap or a table. And, with me pushing and tapping on it with both hands, I've had some situations where it has nearly slid off of my lap. With the screen being made of glass, that is not a great thought to ponder. So, I think that the screen size is not only wasted on blind users, but is also a drawback. The on-screen keyboard is a bit nicer to use on a large screen. However, the touch-typing mode makes even one-handed typing on a small screen a breeze. Besides that, the larger screen meant that a lot more arm motion was required to type on an iPad. I tried the two-handed typing approach in landscape mode, but find that, no matter how well you place your hands, typing is very mistake prone. For anyone that finds it hard to type for extended periods of time on the iPhone, you can use the iPad keyboard dock with it when the next iPhone OS comes out. VoiceOver is worse on the
Re: Returning my iPad
Hi, Just one question. Why not get the iPad case and put it in there? That just seems like a logical solution to your dilemma. If you haven't sold it yet, give it here. lol Really, I've always thought the iPhone was mainly for a consumer. You can write long documents on it, but it is far from comfortable and very efficient. Well, you can write really quickly on that device, but really, it might get tiresome after a while. We will have Bluetooth keyboard support, though, so that is very exciting. I imagine the screen to be exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Sorry to disagree. I think the larger screen would aid me a great deal, and the split-screen is just a nifty feature to me. I won't get an iPad, though, and I have a lot of reasons for that. I'll try out an iPad at the end of May when they ship internationally, but I'm not going to be that excited. First, what can the iPad do that my iPhone cannot? iWork? Perhaps. But right now, I don't see myself using an iPad. Technically, the space I would take up if I hook up a bluetooth keyboard to the iPad is probably just as much as my Macbook, if a little bit less. The Macbook is faster, and I need the superior speed. I need to be able to type blazingly fast, and though I could do that with the iPad keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboards, I still don't want to carry those accessories around with me. Of course, that doesn't mean I can't become very efficient with the on-screen keyboard on the device. Secondly, yes, the glare from the iPad's LCD is hard on the eyes for a few hours. Having to read on the iPad or iPhone for long periods of time is a pain, and that is really only because it is bright. IF it was like the Kindle where you still need a lamp to read, great. Third, I just don't think the iPad is right for me. I want something small like my iPhone that can do all these things already, and I just can't justify buying an iPad right now. Yeah, there are probably things the iPhone will be unable to do, but that hasn't hampered my productivity any. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by
Re: Returning my iPad
What would the case solve though? I also have the vo freezing problem on my touch; I expected it to be at least partly fixed on the ipad. On 05/05/2010, Nicolai Svendsen chojiro1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Just one question. Why not get the iPad case and put it in there? That just seems like a logical solution to your dilemma. If you haven't sold it yet, give it here. lol Really, I've always thought the iPhone was mainly for a consumer. You can write long documents on it, but it is far from comfortable and very efficient. Well, you can write really quickly on that device, but really, it might get tiresome after a while. We will have Bluetooth keyboard support, though, so that is very exciting. I imagine the screen to be exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Sorry to disagree. I think the larger screen would aid me a great deal, and the split-screen is just a nifty feature to me. I won't get an iPad, though, and I have a lot of reasons for that. I'll try out an iPad at the end of May when they ship internationally, but I'm not going to be that excited. First, what can the iPad do that my iPhone cannot? iWork? Perhaps. But right now, I don't see myself using an iPad. Technically, the space I would take up if I hook up a bluetooth keyboard to the iPad is probably just as much as my Macbook, if a little bit less. The Macbook is faster, and I need the superior speed. I need to be able to type blazingly fast, and though I could do that with the iPad keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboards, I still don't want to carry those accessories around with me. Of course, that doesn't mean I can't become very efficient with the on-screen keyboard on the device. Secondly, yes, the glare from the iPad's LCD is hard on the eyes for a few hours. Having to read on the iPad or iPhone for long periods of time is a pain, and that is really only because it is bright. IF it was like the Kindle where you still need a lamp to read, great. Third, I just don't think the iPad is right for me. I want something small like my iPhone that can do all these things already, and I just can't justify buying an iPad right now. Yeah, there are probably things the iPhone will be unable to do, but that hasn't hampered my productivity any. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's
Re: Returning my iPad
Hi, He was saying it was uncomfortable to move around on the larger screen. If he has the case and puts it on a table, I'd imagine this would be a lot easier. At least, it sure would for me and would give me a better overview than having it in my lap, for example. Or, the frequent complaint that is often heard is that holding it up is also uncomfortable, which makes sense too. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote: What would the case solve though? I also have the vo freezing problem on my touch; I expected it to be at least partly fixed on the ipad. On 05/05/2010, Nicolai Svendsen chojiro1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Just one question. Why not get the iPad case and put it in there? That just seems like a logical solution to your dilemma. If you haven't sold it yet, give it here. lol Really, I've always thought the iPhone was mainly for a consumer. You can write long documents on it, but it is far from comfortable and very efficient. Well, you can write really quickly on that device, but really, it might get tiresome after a while. We will have Bluetooth keyboard support, though, so that is very exciting. I imagine the screen to be exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Sorry to disagree. I think the larger screen would aid me a great deal, and the split-screen is just a nifty feature to me. I won't get an iPad, though, and I have a lot of reasons for that. I'll try out an iPad at the end of May when they ship internationally, but I'm not going to be that excited. First, what can the iPad do that my iPhone cannot? iWork? Perhaps. But right now, I don't see myself using an iPad. Technically, the space I would take up if I hook up a bluetooth keyboard to the iPad is probably just as much as my Macbook, if a little bit less. The Macbook is faster, and I need the superior speed. I need to be able to type blazingly fast, and though I could do that with the iPad keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboards, I still don't want to carry those accessories around with me. Of course, that doesn't mean I can't become very efficient with the on-screen keyboard on the device. Secondly, yes, the glare from the iPad's LCD is hard on the eyes for a few hours. Having to read on the iPad or iPhone for long periods of time is a pain, and that is really only because it is bright. IF it was like the Kindle where you still need a lamp to read, great. Third, I just don't think the iPad is right for me. I want something small like my iPhone that can do all these things already, and I just can't justify buying an iPad right now. Yeah, there are probably things the iPhone will be unable to do, but that hasn't hampered my productivity any. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them
Re: Returning my iPad
I second all this. I hadn't planned on purchasing an iPad, but appreciated reading your review, Brian. Very nicely done. Best, Donna On May 5, 2010, at 2:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Very good review, It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad. It was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon. I hope even the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us. Pleas. lol. I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, respectful, and concise manor. I think the list would benefit greatly from such a post instead of a emotion filled rant. lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that swiping will continue from that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the top of the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the screen with some other skin while swiping, or if VoiceOver mistakenly interprets a swipe as a tap, then you'll lose your place, and need to start from the top of the screen. In the App Store in particular, I've swiped myself to frustration. The size of the screen is also not convenient for holding the iPad like you would the iPhone. It must rest on your lap or a table. And, with me pushing and tapping on it with both hands, I've had some situations where it has nearly slid off of my lap. With the screen being made of glass, that is not a great thought to ponder. So, I think that the screen size is not only wasted on blind users, but is also a drawback. The on-screen keyboard is a bit nicer to use on a large screen. However, the touch-typing mode makes even one-handed typing on a small screen a breeze. Besides that, the larger screen meant that a lot more arm motion was required to type on an iPad. I tried the two-handed typing approach in landscape mode, but find that, no matter how well you place your hands, typing is very mistake prone.
Re: Returning my iPad
I like Brian's take on this, now we can look for ourselves and see how much we can work around these real concerns presented fairly. On 2010-05-05, at 5:52 AM, olivia norman wrote: It's always interesting to get another prospective. I do have a case for my iPad, so don't have to hold it up at all which helps. Personally, I love the device, but as with anything, people have differing opinions and I actually found Brian's experiences interesting and valuable to read. I find that the four finger flick gesture really helps while moving around most iPad screens, especially in applications such as mail and safari, this gesture helps avoid swiping with one finger constantly. I also find that applications such as iBooks and the iWork applications are wonderful additions to this device, and afford the user functionality ad productivity you just don't find on the iPhone. In my way of thinking, these are two different kinds of devices, which perform different functions and I use and think of them for completely different things in my life. There's also the issue with the iPhone's battery life. I can't for instance, watch a movie or stream a youtube video for any length of time with out experiencing significant battery drain. On my iPad, I am able to watch videos for hours, no problem. The case is a great, and IMO, needed, extra with the iPad for both blid and sighted users. It allows for more comfortable use of the iPad and means that you don't have to hold it or risk it falling. You can purchase it from apple for about $39.99. I am sorry to hear the iPad didn't work for you, Brian, and your experience just shows that not every piece of technology works well for every user. Thank you for posting this to the list! Have a great day! :) Olivia On May 5, 2010, at 4:52 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, He was saying it was uncomfortable to move around on the larger screen. If he has the case and puts it on a table, I'd imagine this would be a lot easier. At least, it sure would for me and would give me a better overview than having it in my lap, for example. Or, the frequent complaint that is often heard is that holding it up is also uncomfortable, which makes sense too. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote: What would the case solve though? I also have the vo freezing problem on my touch; I expected it to be at least partly fixed on the ipad. On 05/05/2010, Nicolai Svendsen chojiro1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Just one question. Why not get the iPad case and put it in there? That just seems like a logical solution to your dilemma. If you haven't sold it yet, give it here. lol Really, I've always thought the iPhone was mainly for a consumer. You can write long documents on it, but it is far from comfortable and very efficient. Well, you can write really quickly on that device, but really, it might get tiresome after a while. We will have Bluetooth keyboard support, though, so that is very exciting. I imagine the screen to be exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Sorry to disagree. I think the larger screen would aid me a great deal, and the split-screen is just a nifty feature to me. I won't get an iPad, though, and I have a lot of reasons for that. I'll try out an iPad at the end of May when they ship internationally, but I'm not going to be that excited. First, what can the iPad do that my iPhone cannot? iWork? Perhaps. But right now, I don't see myself using an iPad. Technically, the space I would take up if I hook up a bluetooth keyboard to the iPad is probably just as much as my Macbook, if a little bit less. The Macbook is faster, and I need the superior speed. I need to be able to type blazingly fast, and though I could do that with the iPad keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboards, I still don't want to carry those accessories around with me. Of course, that doesn't mean I can't become very efficient with the on-screen keyboard on the device. Secondly, yes, the glare from the iPad's LCD is hard on the eyes for a few hours. Having to read on the iPad or iPhone for long periods of time is a pain, and that is really only because it is bright. IF it was like the Kindle where you still need a lamp to read, great. Third, I just don't think the iPad is right for me. I want something small like my iPhone that can do all these things already, and I just can't justify buying an iPad right now. Yeah, there are probably things the iPhone will be unable to do, but that hasn't hampered my productivity any. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at
Re: Returning my iPad
Hi, I don't think anyone is intentionally attempting to directly advise people on what to do, but rather giving them advice to make their own choice. No product is for anyone. IF you have lived your life using Macs, you probably wouldn't want to switch to Windows unless you suddenly are not feeling comfortable with the Macintosh operating system. And that's always going to be an extremely important factor. Conclusion: Don't be like me and buy it just because you know a friend bought it. Especially don't follow through with that course if you haven't even tried it yet. But if your friend hands you a product, you play with it for a while, consider it from all angles and think Holy smokes this rocks, then go shopping. Of course, that doesn't mean you won't regret it later. You might if you suddenly think of something that never entered your head before. Yeah yeah, rant over. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 4:40 PM, marie Howarth wrote: The truth is, the iPhone isn't for everyone, the mac isn't for everyone and the iPad is no exception to that rule. I have to say, I still am going to purchase the iPad when it comes to the UK. I think everyone should think about what everyone has said in regards to any products but ultimately make their own decisions. On 5 May 2010, at 13:42, Donna Goodin wrote: I second all this. I hadn't planned on purchasing an iPad, but appreciated reading your review, Brian. Very nicely done. Best, Donna On May 5, 2010, at 2:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Very good review, It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad. It was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon. I hope even the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us. Pleas. lol. I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, respectful, and concise manor. I think the list would benefit greatly from such a post instead of a emotion filled rant. lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of
Re: Returning my iPad
Once again, nice job Bryan. I've been mulling over the decision of whether to get an I pad. Your post has convinced me to wait and see how the update of the OS this summer for the Iphone and Ipod Touch effects their usage. I am interested in the Ibooks application, for instance, but that will be available on the Ipod Touch with the new OS. This is the second time you have affected my decision to do or not do something. I own a Victor Reader Stream and a Book Sense, so I thought I didn't need the NLS's new digital player. I listened to your podcast on Blind Cool Tech and decided to get the NLS player. I'm glad I did, if for no other reason than I can listen to books while moving throughout the room without having to have a device in my pocket or headset attached to my head. Once again, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and insight with us concerning technology. I'm sorry you have to eat the 10% restocking fee though. That's a bummer. On May 5, 2010, at 8:42 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: I second all this. I hadn't planned on purchasing an iPad, but appreciated reading your review, Brian. Very nicely done. Best, Donna On May 5, 2010, at 2:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Very good review, It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad. It was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon. I hope even the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us. Pleas. lol. I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, respectful, and concise manor. I think the list would benefit greatly from such a post instead of a emotion filled rant. lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that swiping will continue from that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the top of the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the screen with some other skin while
Re: Returning my iPad
I don't think I'll buy one as I have a lapotp and hopefully will be getting an iphone so I hope for now all of my needs are solved. Take care. S Good luck. On May 5, 2010, at 2:56 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, The iWork suite is probably what will cause me to buy it in the end. I have heard blind and sighted perspectives alike on the iPad, and some simply present an issue I have never even considered. Nevertheless, all opinions are of course valuable, and they are definitely helping me decide whether or not I am going to buy one. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 11:52 AM, olivia norman wrote: It's always interesting to get another prospective. I do have a case for my iPad, so don't have to hold it up at all which helps. Personally, I love the device, but as with anything, people have differing opinions and I actually found Brian's experiences interesting and valuable to read. I find that the four finger flick gesture really helps while moving around most iPad screens, especially in applications such as mail and safari, this gesture helps avoid swiping with one finger constantly. I also find that applications such as iBooks and the iWork applications are wonderful additions to this device, and afford the user functionality ad productivity you just don't find on the iPhone. In my way of thinking, these are two different kinds of devices, which perform different functions and I use and think of them for completely different things in my life. There's also the issue with the iPhone's battery life. I can't for instance, watch a movie or stream a youtube video for any length of time with out experiencing significant battery drain. On my iPad, I am able to watch videos for hours, no problem. The case is a great, and IMO, needed, extra with the iPad for both blid and sighted users. It allows for more comfortable use of the iPad and means that you don't have to hold it or risk it falling. You can purchase it from apple for about $39.99. I am sorry to hear the iPad didn't work for you, Brian, and your experience just shows that not every piece of technology works well for every user. Thank you for posting this to the list! Have a great day! :) Olivia On May 5, 2010, at 4:52 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, He was saying it was uncomfortable to move around on the larger screen. If he has the case and puts it on a table, I'd imagine this would be a lot easier. At least, it sure would for me and would give me a better overview than having it in my lap, for example. Or, the frequent complaint that is often heard is that holding it up is also uncomfortable, which makes sense too. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote: What would the case solve though? I also have the vo freezing problem on my touch; I expected it to be at least partly fixed on the ipad. On 05/05/2010, Nicolai Svendsen chojiro1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Just one question. Why not get the iPad case and put it in there? That just seems like a logical solution to your dilemma. If you haven't sold it yet, give it here. lol Really, I've always thought the iPhone was mainly for a consumer. You can write long documents on it, but it is far from comfortable and very efficient. Well, you can write really quickly on that device, but really, it might get tiresome after a while. We will have Bluetooth keyboard support, though, so that is very exciting. I imagine the screen to be exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Sorry to disagree. I think the larger screen would aid me a great deal, and the split-screen is just a nifty feature to me. I won't get an iPad, though, and I have a lot of reasons for that. I'll try out an iPad at the end of May when they ship internationally, but I'm not going to be that excited. First, what can the iPad do that my iPhone cannot? iWork? Perhaps. But right now, I don't see myself using an iPad. Technically, the space I would take up if I hook up a bluetooth keyboard to the iPad is probably just as much as my Macbook, if a little bit less. The Macbook is faster, and I need the superior speed. I need to be able to type blazingly fast, and though I could do that with the iPad keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboards, I still don't want to carry those accessories around with me. Of course, that doesn't mean I can't become very efficient with the on-screen keyboard on the device. Secondly, yes, the glare from the iPad's LCD is hard on the eyes for a few hours. Having to read on the iPad or iPhone for long periods of time is a pain, and
Re: Returning my iPad
Hi, Yes, you can do Netflix with the iPad on 3G. Someone is going to see if he can use up 100GB on 3G on his unlimited dataplan for the iPad within a few weeks. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 9:07 PM, joe quinn wrote: u can stream netflix over 3g on the ipad? With what? And, would it work with the touch, or iphone? If so, 1 more reason for me to get one! On 5/5/10, Bryan Smart bryansm...@bryansmart.com wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that swiping will continue from that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the top of the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the screen with some other skin while swiping, or if VoiceOver mistakenly interprets a swipe as a tap, then you'll lose your place, and need to start from the top of the screen. In the App Store in particular, I've swiped myself to frustration. The size of the screen is also not convenient for holding the iPad like you would the iPhone. It must rest on your lap or a table. And, with me pushing and tapping on it with both hands, I've had some situations where it has nearly slid off of my lap. With the screen being made of glass, that is not a great thought to ponder. So, I think that the screen size is not only wasted on blind users, but is also a drawback. The on-screen keyboard is a bit nicer to use on a large screen. However, the touch-typing mode makes even one-handed typing on a small screen a breeze. Besides that, the larger screen meant that a lot more arm motion was required to type on an iPad. I tried the two-handed typing approach in landscape mode, but find that, no matter how well you place your hands, typing is very mistake prone. For anyone that finds it hard to type for extended periods of time on the iPhone, you can use the iPad keyboard dock with it when the next iPhone OS comes out.
RE: Returning my iPad
Absolutely. I'm not trying to discourage people from having a look and judging for themselves. I think that an iPad would make more sense for me if I wasn't going to use an iPhone. If you like Symbian or Windows Mobile for a phone, then the iPad would give you a good way to get in on the iPhone apps and other benefits. A Touch really wouldn't do that, since it doesn't have 3G data or GPS. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of marie Howarth Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:41 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Returning my iPad The truth is, the iPhone isn't for everyone, the mac isn't for everyone and the iPad is no exception to that rule. I have to say, I still am going to purchase the iPad when it comes to the UK. I think everyone should think about what everyone has said in regards to any products but ultimately make their own decisions. On 5 May 2010, at 13:42, Donna Goodin wrote: I second all this. I hadn't planned on purchasing an iPad, but appreciated reading your review, Brian. Very nicely done. Best, Donna On May 5, 2010, at 2:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Very good review, It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad. It was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon. I hope even the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us. Pleas. lol. I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, respectful, and concise manor. I think the list would benefit greatly from such a post instead of a emotion filled rant. lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that swiping will continue from that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the top of the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the screen with some other skin while swiping, or if VoiceOver
RE: Returning my iPad
You are very right that, for a low vision user, the iPad would be superior because of the larger screen. I left out the Touch because it lacks 3G data and GPS. Without those, many of the possibilities of apps are cut out. The technology is impressive. The question is, in what form factor would it best serve you? Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Nalda Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 1:19 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Returning my iPad I think his review is nice enough from a VoiceOver only perspective, but there are people out there I think that are visually impaired who want the device because of it's larger size for Zooming. The only fault I've found in this area is working with the keyboard. He also left out the option of the ipod touch. It was either iphone or iPad for him. On May 5, 2010, at 1:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Very good review, It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad. It was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon. I hope even the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us. Pleas. lol. I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, respectful, and concise manor. I think the list would benefit greatly from such a post instead of a emotion filled rant. lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that swiping will continue from that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the top of the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the screen with some other skin while swiping, or if VoiceOver mistakenly interprets a swipe as a tap, then you'll lose your place, and need to start from the top of the screen. In the App Store in particular, I've swiped myself to frustration. The size of the screen is also not convenient
RE: Returning my iPad
Glad to know that my posts help you out, Kim. I know that everyone has different needs, both in terms of their particular disability and what activities are part of their lives. No device is perfect, and every way of working involves tradeoffs. I know that, until many people get their hands on a device, they might not even know some of the tradeoffs that are involved. If you can accept them, that's fine, but people should at least know what they're in for. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kimberly thurman Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:03 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Returning my iPad Once again, nice job Bryan. I've been mulling over the decision of whether to get an I pad. Your post has convinced me to wait and see how the update of the OS this summer for the Iphone and Ipod Touch effects their usage. I am interested in the Ibooks application, for instance, but that will be available on the Ipod Touch with the new OS. This is the second time you have affected my decision to do or not do something. I own a Victor Reader Stream and a Book Sense, so I thought I didn't need the NLS's new digital player. I listened to your podcast on Blind Cool Tech and decided to get the NLS player. I'm glad I did, if for no other reason than I can listen to books while moving throughout the room without having to have a device in my pocket or headset attached to my head. Once again, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and insight with us concerning technology. I'm sorry you have to eat the 10% restocking fee though. That's a bummer. On May 5, 2010, at 8:42 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: I second all this. I hadn't planned on purchasing an iPad, but appreciated reading your review, Brian. Very nicely done. Best, Donna On May 5, 2010, at 2:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Very good review, It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad. It was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon. I hope even the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us. Pleas. lol. I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, respectful, and concise manor. I think the list would benefit greatly from such a post instead of a emotion filled rant. lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus
Re: Returning my iPad
I'm still not sure If I'd get one, but I'm leaning towards it as I'm of the low-vision caliber myself. I'd love it for instant large print reading of pdf documents, books, and web pages. You just get so much more information with that bigger screen. No, it's not a laptop replacement, but, It would allow me to leave my precious MBP at home, with its' delicate HD and cd/dvd-rw drive, that can easily break in transit. I don't know If It would allow me to leave my ipod at home, as I couldn't find a way to lock all controls, and still have music playing while the IPad hangs in a bag. I do know the $79 apple headphones will let you stop, play, and skip to the next song in a playlist, but navigation I'm not sure about. So many questions and so little precious time in the Apple store makes it hard to check out everything. On May 5, 2010, at 2:47 PM, Bryan Smart wrote: You are very right that, for a low vision user, the iPad would be superior because of the larger screen. I left out the Touch because it lacks 3G data and GPS. Without those, many of the possibilities of apps are cut out. The technology is impressive. The question is, in what form factor would it best serve you? Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Nalda Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 1:19 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Returning my iPad I think his review is nice enough from a VoiceOver only perspective, but there are people out there I think that are visually impaired who want the device because of it's larger size for Zooming. The only fault I've found in this area is working with the keyboard. He also left out the option of the ipod touch. It was either iphone or iPad for him. On May 5, 2010, at 1:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Very good review, It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad. It was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon. I hope even the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us. Pleas. lol. I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, respectful, and concise manor. I think the list would benefit greatly from such a post instead of a emotion filled rant. lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen
Re: Returning my iPad
for me a mbp and a touch is good enough, if something packs it in I'll consider it, but for now I'm technology happy with what I have. On 2010-05-05, at 2:47 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: I don't think I'll buy one as I have a lapotp and hopefully will be getting an iphone so I hope for now all of my needs are solved. Take care. S Good luck. On May 5, 2010, at 2:56 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, The iWork suite is probably what will cause me to buy it in the end. I have heard blind and sighted perspectives alike on the iPad, and some simply present an issue I have never even considered. Nevertheless, all opinions are of course valuable, and they are definitely helping me decide whether or not I am going to buy one. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 11:52 AM, olivia norman wrote: It's always interesting to get another prospective. I do have a case for my iPad, so don't have to hold it up at all which helps. Personally, I love the device, but as with anything, people have differing opinions and I actually found Brian's experiences interesting and valuable to read. I find that the four finger flick gesture really helps while moving around most iPad screens, especially in applications such as mail and safari, this gesture helps avoid swiping with one finger constantly. I also find that applications such as iBooks and the iWork applications are wonderful additions to this device, and afford the user functionality ad productivity you just don't find on the iPhone. In my way of thinking, these are two different kinds of devices, which perform different functions and I use and think of them for completely different things in my life. There's also the issue with the iPhone's battery life. I can't for instance, watch a movie or stream a youtube video for any length of time with out experiencing significant battery drain. On my iPad, I am able to watch videos for hours, no problem. The case is a great, and IMO, needed, extra with the iPad for both blid and sighted users. It allows for more comfortable use of the iPad and means that you don't have to hold it or risk it falling. You can purchase it from apple for about $39.99. I am sorry to hear the iPad didn't work for you, Brian, and your experience just shows that not every piece of technology works well for every user. Thank you for posting this to the list! Have a great day! :) Olivia On May 5, 2010, at 4:52 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, He was saying it was uncomfortable to move around on the larger screen. If he has the case and puts it on a table, I'd imagine this would be a lot easier. At least, it sure would for me and would give me a better overview than having it in my lap, for example. Or, the frequent complaint that is often heard is that holding it up is also uncomfortable, which makes sense too. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote: What would the case solve though? I also have the vo freezing problem on my touch; I expected it to be at least partly fixed on the ipad. On 05/05/2010, Nicolai Svendsen chojiro1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Just one question. Why not get the iPad case and put it in there? That just seems like a logical solution to your dilemma. If you haven't sold it yet, give it here. lol Really, I've always thought the iPhone was mainly for a consumer. You can write long documents on it, but it is far from comfortable and very efficient. Well, you can write really quickly on that device, but really, it might get tiresome after a while. We will have Bluetooth keyboard support, though, so that is very exciting. I imagine the screen to be exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Sorry to disagree. I think the larger screen would aid me a great deal, and the split-screen is just a nifty feature to me. I won't get an iPad, though, and I have a lot of reasons for that. I'll try out an iPad at the end of May when they ship internationally, but I'm not going to be that excited. First, what can the iPad do that my iPhone cannot? iWork? Perhaps. But right now, I don't see myself using an iPad. Technically, the space I would take up if I hook up a bluetooth keyboard to the iPad is probably just as much as my Macbook, if a little bit less. The Macbook is faster, and I need the superior speed. I need to be able to type blazingly fast, and though I could do that with the iPad keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboards, I still don't want to carry those accessories around with me. Of course, that doesn't mean I can't become very efficient with the
Re: Returning my iPad
Being a newcomer to the Apple family, having just gotten a MBP back in December and an IPod Touch a few months before that, I was really giving a long look at the IPad. Of course, I have a Windows Mobile phone (an HTC Touch Pro) I bought just before the IPhone became accessible. I was a little bummed when I realized I could have bought a phone with built-in accessability for nearly the same price I paid for Mobile Speak Pocket by itself. I have another year on my contract with Sprint and then I will give the IPhone another look. Of course, I really just wish Sprint would get the IPhone so I wouldn't have to switch carriers. I have a really good plan with a really good rate that I don't think I'll be able to duplicate withATT.. I really appreciate everyone's input here, whether they be pros or cons. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: Returning my iPad
Yes, that sounds good, and I thought as you. However, it doesn't work that way in practice. You can pick something from a side bar, and then tap over to the right in order to find the article or what-ever. However, when you start swiping, or if you two-finger swipe down to read from that point on, VO is just as likely to start reading from the top of the page. So, touching is only good for exploring, not for actually picking a place from where to start reading. Sometimes it works, but mostly it doesn't. On the iPhone, you have many screens where controls appear at consistent positions. On the iPad, with the extra screen area, most apps are just filling that extra space up with a browser, where touching doesn't really move your focus to that point like it should, and where you also must often scroll the content area to find what you want. So, you're thinking of the iPad like it will be a big iPhone, with lots of additional screen area for more controls. When, actually, many app developers have just turned it in to a web terminal with a bit of extra bits and pieces to frame the browser view. Browsing with Safari has never been quite as fast for me as the virtual buffer approaches available through the Windows screen readers. Browsing with Safari, while controlling it with touch, is even slower. I can do it, but it isn't the quickest approach out there. The iPad turns every freaking thing in to a web site type experience. I hate that. I don't mean to say that every app is like that. The iWork apps aren't, and neither is iBooks. However, I'd say that over half of the apps that I downloaded that were designed just for the iPad were written by devs that thought that making an iPad version meant that they could just make their app a web application with a local frame of buttons. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 4:18 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Returning my iPad Hi, Still, regardless, I can imagine that it'd be easier to explore the screen. if you frequently visit a particular webpage, you might have the table containing news categories on the left-hand side, and when tapping it, contents might appear in the center or to the right making navigation very swift. I've always loved the exploration part of a touchscreen, and I never swipe anymore. This is why it'd probably be a huge benefit for me to get one because of the size. Exploring, particularly with the iPhone on websites is not the same. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On May 5, 2010, at 9:58 PM, Bryan Smart wrote: Olivia, I like the concept of the four finger swipe for navigating between sections, but it seems that only a few apps support this. It works on the home screen. It works in the iWork apps. It works in Safari. However, lots of iPad apps build their interfaces out of just large web browser views. In these views, there is no concept of sections. You just have a huge scrolling page with lots of links. Sometimes, they'll use headings, and I can use the rotor and up/down swipe to navigate between sections. Quite often, though, they don't, and, together with the problem of swiping not continuing from where I last touched, there is a massive amount of swiping required to get around the screen. Lots of swiping isn't a problem on the iPhone and Touch, as those are smaller screens that hold less data at once, so there isn't much on any single screen to swipe through. The iPad screens are very full, though. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of olivia norman Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 5:53 AM To: list voiceover Subject: Re: Returning my iPad It's always interesting to get another prospective. I do have a case for my iPad, so don't have to hold it up at all which helps. Personally, I love the device, but as with anything, people have differing opinions and I actually found Brian's experiences interesting and valuable to read. I find that the four finger flick gesture really helps while moving around most iPad screens, especially in applications such as mail and safari, this gesture helps avoid swiping with one finger constantly. I also find that applications such as iBooks and the iWork applications are wonderful additions to this device, and afford the user functionality ad productivity you just don't find on the iPhone. In my way of thinking, these are two different kinds of devices, which perform different functions and I use and think of them for completely different things in my life. There's also the issue with the iPhone's battery life. I can't for instance, watch a movie
Returning my iPad
OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't. I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction. I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away. The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going. Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone. Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS. The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker. I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that swiping will continue from that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point on the screen, but, when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the top of the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the screen with some other skin while swiping, or if VoiceOver mistakenly interprets a swipe as a tap, then you'll lose your place, and need to start from the top of the screen. In the App Store in particular, I've swiped myself to frustration. The size of the screen is also not convenient for holding the iPad like you would the iPhone. It must rest on your lap or a table. And, with me pushing and tapping on it with both hands, I've had some situations where it has nearly slid off of my lap. With the screen being made of glass, that is not a great thought to ponder. So, I think that the screen size is not only wasted on blind users, but is also a drawback. The on-screen keyboard is a bit nicer to use on a large screen. However, the touch-typing mode makes even one-handed typing on a small screen a breeze. Besides that, the larger screen meant that a lot more arm motion was required to type on an iPad. I tried the two-handed typing approach in landscape mode, but find that, no matter how well you place your hands, typing is very mistake prone. For anyone that finds it hard to type for extended periods of time on the iPhone, you can use the iPad keyboard dock with it when the next iPhone OS comes out. VoiceOver is worse on the iPad. I'll just put my flame retardant suit on right now for the hordes of people that will respond and tell me how I'm wrong, how wonderful it is, and how it must be me. Well, I've used an iPhone extensively, and I've used the touch gestures on my MacBook Pro a lot, so I think that I'm pretty familiar with how everything is supposed to work. On the iPad, for gestures to work, I must over-act them. On my MacBook or iPhone, a little flick of my finger is enough to indicate that I'd like to move to the next item. On the iPad, I must make a huge swipe,
