Re: [maemo-developers] Reboot Cycle
Johannes Eickhold wrote: Has anybody found a solution to this problem that avoids reflashing? Reflashing would cause me a lot of work :-/. It's apparently caused by upgrading the gst-plugins-farsight package. Removing /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstrtpjitterbuffer.so (which segfaults) solves this issue. Cheers, Hermann ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
2006/8/30, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, But you do have! Just click the LXR link on the left of the tutorial page. The Hildon framework sources are publicly available (and have been for a long time). Unfortunately when people say sources for 770 they do tend to mean IT200x (the product) too and not only Maemo (the platform). Yes, but the section that had been quoted, was titled: Main differences between Gnome and Hildon application framework IMHO one would need to be pretty blind not see that the title was: Hildon application framework instead of: ALL the software on an Open Source based Commercial product with proprietary components :-) While your good faith in humanity is refreshing and an admirable additude ;), I'm afraid that people really ARE that blind when they have certain expectations already. The expectations were/are generated by the news all over internet, and community blog aggregation sites are not the smallest medium of generating expectations. For example, LinuxWorld review starts with: What's particularly compelling about the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet is that it's not only the first to be billed as an Internet Tablet, but also its software is built entirely from open source components. so it's only natural to be fooled. I don't mean to blame anyone for misinforming, not at all, but the only spot where this misconception and generalisation possibly could have been prevented was in the initial introductions. And knowing how accurate the media can be in its articles regardless of the facts given to them, it's not realistic to believe it would have helped that much :/ (I still think the LXR link should be renamed Platform source-code or something like that.) Yeah, if you are not already familiar with the system it could say XYZ instead and not make a difference... -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: [fbreader] ZBedic integration
Hi, When I try to start /usr/bin/dictd I get: /bin/sh: /usr/bin/dictd: not found If the kernel / dynamic loader cannot load the binary, you get a message like this. I think it can happen also if some library linked by the binary is missing. dictd is simply taken from the Debian package for the arm architecture. ARM architecture is incompatible to ARMEL architecture. For more info on the differencies, see: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort You need to re-build the dictd Debian package for ARMEL. - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Linux kernel source code
Hello All, looks like I have to answer this myself because I have not received any other help instructions. The same happened when I was asking where is the WLAN driver sources for 2.6.16 kernel, see http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2006-August/005049.html The correct answer to this is: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=cx3110x I have not received any reason for this, does somebody knows the reason? The solution to my problem (below) was to change the compiler environment (toolchain). Looks like the kernel (OK, only WLAN driver) is compiled with the 3.4 toolchain (scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc3.4.cs-glibc), not with the scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm which I used and was suggested in http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial.html#Installation The kernel compilation Wiki-page proposes to use scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc3.4.cs-glibc compiler, but in that page all other instructions was for IT2005 (and Maemo 1.1) and I mistakenly believed that suggestion was also outdated (so that was my mistake). Kernel is compiling cleanly with the cs2005q3.2 toolchain, is there some good reason not to use that to compile whole system (IT2006Maemo2.0 and kernel)??? I am also a little bit surprised that this mailing-list does not include more people who compiles the kernel by himself/herself (or at least that impression I have gotten). Maybe they don't have to ask any questions like I have done... :-) Best Regards, Kimmo On Tuesday 15 August 2006 13:02, Kimmo Ahola wrote: Hello Daniel, On Tuesday 15 August 2006 12:29, Daniel Stone wrote: On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 12:12:45PM +0300, ext Kimmo Ahola wrote: Just a minor addition. The kernel source 2.6.16 does not contain the WLAN driver (cx3110x) so you have to fetch the code for WLAN from https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x/ By the way, is this announced somewhere? But at least for me the code does not compile correctly, I get the following error: - /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-ld: ERROR: Source object /home/user/cx3110x/umac_arm9.lib has EABI version 0, but target /home/user/cx3110x/umac.o has EABI version 4 Maybe the proprietary part of the driver is compiled with the old version? You need make KERNEL_SRC_DIR=... EABI4=y modules, for IT2006. Cheers, Daniel Thanks for this tip, but it's not helping me. I got the same error when using EABI4=y parameter in 'make'. Cheers, Kimmo ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Scratchbox is not an emulator
Hi, On Re: [maemo-developers] RE: Nokia 770 sources... Christian Pernegger wrote: The chroot + rootstrap approch itself would be nice enough if the environment were exactly the same as a 770, that is including applications. Hm. Applications are not a development environment unless they are providing services that your own application needs...? The scratchbox environment has no audio output, no battery indicator, no simulated connectivity, Although Scratchbox allows running software, it's not a target device emulator. It's a cross-configuration and cross-building environment/tool and emulates only stuff necessary for doing cross-compilation, cross- configuration and cross-building so that it appears as native to the package being built. For emulating the device hardware dependent features, there are two partly overlapping alternatives: - Use a HW emulator on which you can run the software built with Sbox. - Qemu is far away from being able to emulate the whole ARM device (currently it emulates just most of the user-space stuff and calls the host kernel for rest), and AFAIK there are no better Open Source alternatives for ARM emulation - Use an x86 emulator into which you can boot the enviroment - UML would be nice candinate for this, I think it now supports running having rootfs on a normal directory so that you don't need to create a disk image first - This requires that all the necessary ARM HW software APIs are available (see below) also for x86 - With HW emulators the display emulation is a bit of a problem, and often need to use X over network. Maintaining separate X server (with the same features as on the device) that runs on an emulated x86 (i.e. different HW) would be quite a bit of effort. Xephyr X server is much nicer as it doesn't require HW support, it works on top of desktop X server (Note: Xnest is not an X server, it's a proxy that takes its features from the underlying X server) - Provide dummy versions of the necessary ARM HW software APIs for audio, battery, connectivity (BT, WLAN...), mmc etc. Of the audio stuff, ESD (used by SDL) should AFAIK work in the x86 development. I think the battery mmc APIs are D-BUS based so emulating them with e.g. dbus-send should be possible. ... it isn't much better than saying compile using these header files and cross-compile by changing your makefile in this way. As a person who was involved in making Scratchbox... I see that you haven't tried to: 1. cross-configure Autotools (autoconf, automake etc) using Linux desktop software, nor tried to 2. cross-build Debian packages 1) Is something that only OpenEmbedded provides in addition to Sbox and even with OE, you need to create a specific recipe for the package build to succeed (I think). For problems with SW using Autotools, see: http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/general/tutorials/explained.html 2) Is something that nothing else besides Scratchbox has managed to do. Everybody else is building Debian packages natively, possibly by using distcc that utilizes cross-compilers for compiling the source. However everything related to Debian scripts, configure etc, is run natively (i.e. slowly if at all) by everybody who's not using Sbox. I'll admit the last time I played with handheld development was on a Palm emulator, which felt much more complete - maemo is like flying blind. Personally I would also like to see all the platform APIs to be available on x86 as debugging problems is so much easier on x86. There are much better debugging tools available for x86 and using them doesn't require re-compiling all the SW you're debugging... - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Reboot Cycle
ext Johannes Eickhold [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it would be a good idea not to say You can freely alternate between AI 2006 and apt-get, say. Changes done to the system via apt-get or dpkg are picked up by the AI 2006 without confusing it, and vice versa. like [1] does, if it can cause so much trouble. Hmm. That sentence is pretty accurate, so why should we remove it? It is not a guarantee, of course, that all changes to your system that you make with apt-get will be good ones. There could be a warning about that, but I think it should be pretty obvious that when you muck around in your system as root that you need to be careful, no? ;) Then again, having a package in the official maemo mistral repository that will break your device is very bad, too. Someone should do something about this. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
On tis, 2006-08-29 at 12:52 -0300, ext Alessandro Ikeuchi wrote: I wish the Notes instead of Maemopad. My english is so bad? Sorry. May be in portuguese: Eu quero o código fonte do Notes, o Maemopad não me interessa... E eu quero que você também explique o motivo de gtk_text_buffer_insert_at_cursor(mybuffer, \u00E3, -1); não funcionar para Unicode. Não afronte minha inteligência, você não tem nada a ganhar com isso... Could *PLEASE* stop cross-posting between maemo-users and maemo-devel? If you intend to continue flaming, please keep the flames on one list. Regards: David -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Reboot Cycle
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:25:04 +0300 Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext Johannes Eickhold [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it would be a good idea not to say You can freely alternate between AI 2006 and apt-get, say. Changes done to the system via apt-get or dpkg are picked up by the AI 2006 without confusing it, and vice versa. like [1] does, if it can cause so much trouble. Hmm. That sentence is pretty accurate, so why should we remove it? It is not a guarantee, of course, that all changes to your system that you make with apt-get will be good ones. There could be a warning about that, but I think it should be pretty obvious that when you muck around in your system as root that you need to be careful, no? ;) Absolutely. However the expectations of a typical Linux user are: apt-get upgrade should be harmless if my sources.list points to a stable release (such as mistral). I think it is a bad idea to make your system work contrary to the user's expectations. Then again, having a package in the official maemo mistral repository that will break your device is very bad, too. Someone should do something about this. I suggested on IRC yesterday to modify the postinst script of maemo-af-desktop (or whatever the package that restarts an important process and causes the lifeguard to reboot) to not stop/restart the process. Consider gdm as an analogy in the big desktop world: I can apt-get upgrade gdm in an xterm in a running X session, and the package scripts do not kill/restart it in that case. (I'd be interested in experimenting with this if I had a spare Nokia 770 that I wasn't afraid of breaking.) Marius Gedminas -- Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine. pgp0qFrT4SW7q.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Scratchbox is not an emulator
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Eero Tamminen schreef:
snip
1. cross-configure Autotools (autoconf, automake etc)
using Linux desktop software, nor tried to
2. cross-build Debian packages
1) Is something that only OpenEmbedded provides in addition to Sbox
and even with OE, you need to create a specific recipe for the package
build to succeed (I think). For problems with SW using Autotools, see:
http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/general/tutorials/explained.html
To expand a bit on that: in OE it should be a matter of doing 'inherit
autotools'[1][2],
but that only works if people didn't hand edit the generated configure file
afterwards or
include bogus macros in aclocal.m4.
And once you enter the realm of crosscompiling you will notice that people make
stupid
assumptions[3] and do -I/usr/include into the Makefile.{am,in}, and guess what,
the
arm-gcc compiler chokes on x86 asm from that headers.
Scratchbox makes life easy for developers since it's the closest thing you'll
get to
native *compiling* you'll get on your workstation. If you want to thoroughly
test it, you
can't escape using the device (with or without cpu transperency), and you still
have to
package the stuff yourself. If you just want to have a package, OE would be
right for you,
if you want to develop 'natively', scratchbox is the way to go, but there is no
'click
this button to do everything' solution yet.
Koen
[1] http://www.openembedded.org/user-manualdpage=ch02s04
[2] http://www.openembedded.org/user-manualdpage=ch07#autotools_class
[3]
http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/gimp/gimp_2.3.10.bb
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Re: [maemo-developers] Reboot Cycle
ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I suggested on IRC yesterday to modify the postinst script of maemo-af-desktop (or whatever the package that restarts an important process and causes the lifeguard to reboot) to not stop/restart the process. I think you are now talking about Sardine, right? There are big problems with upgrading from Mistral to Sardine, and within Sardine itself. But I think the Sardine docs have enough warnings so that people don't have wrong expectations. (I'd be interested in experimenting with this if I had a spare Nokia 770 that I wasn't afraid of breaking.) Dual booting might be a good alternative: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/SardineDistro http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo_GetStartedWithSardine ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Reboot Cycle
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:25:04 +0300 Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext Johannes Eickhold [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it would be a good idea not to say You can freely alternate between AI 2006 and apt-get, say. Changes done to the system via apt-get or dpkg are picked up by the AI 2006 without confusing it, and vice versa. like [1] does, if it can cause so much trouble. Hmm. That sentence is pretty accurate, so why should we remove it? It is not a guarantee, of course, that all changes to your system that you make with apt-get will be good ones. There could be a warning about that, but I think it should be pretty obvious that when you muck around in your system as root that you need to be careful, no? ;) Absolutely. However the expectations of a typical Linux user are: apt-get upgrade should be harmless if my sources.list points to a stable release (such as mistral). I think it is a bad idea to make your system work contrary to the user's expectations. Then again, having a package in the official maemo mistral repository that will break your device is very bad, too. Someone should do something about this. Totally agree. It is very unfortunate that this happened. In addition, all package versions in the repository should have matched those on the device, since maemo2.0 is meant as a snapshot of Maemo components fully in sync with IT2006. It should have been so that running 'apt-get upgrade' on the device from the mistral repository would not pull in any new package version. I suggested on IRC yesterday to modify the postinst script of maemo-af-desktop (or whatever the package that restarts an important process and causes the lifeguard to reboot) to not stop/restart the process. Consider gdm as an analogy in the big desktop world: I can apt-get upgrade gdm in an xterm in a running X session, and the package scripts do not kill/restart it in that case. I believe it's maemo-launcher. That's the only package apt will try upgrade when running 'apt-get upgrade' on the device from the mistral repository. This has been fixed in Sardine for the future. (I'd be interested in experimenting with this if I had a spare Nokia 770 that I wasn't afraid of breaking.) Try dual booting, see Marius's reply. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] osso-pdf-viewer sources availability
Hi, I am trying to find sources of the 'osso-pdf-viewer' package, but seems they are not available (did a search around http://repository.maemo.org/pool/ but with no success). According to this package reference list: http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/packages/package_reference.html the 'osso-pdf-reader' is package marked as 'Modified by Nokia' - so it is based on some open-source package, isn't it? Can anyone clarify situation with this package? It would be nice to add few features to the PDF viewer, but without sources it is impossible :) Thanks. Kirill. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia 770 sources...
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 02:46:34PM -0300, ext Alessandro Ikeuchi wrote: Tell me how to write unicode chars (because is certainly changed) would be the most correct way to silence me. See Ross Burton's mail in this very thread. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Scratchbox is not an emulator
Eero Tamminen wrote: - Qemu is far away from being able to emulate the whole ARM device (currently it emulates just most of the user-space stuff and calls the host kernel for rest) Not that far. I think at least one system emulation of ARM board is supported in 0.8.x version and there is even almost complete Palm T-E (OMAP 310) emulation http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2006-03/msg00125.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2006-08/msg00058.html http://zabor.org/balrog/palmte/ True that it is far from having N770 emulated (DSP would be probably hard as well as other N770 specific chips) but also far from the user-space stuff you mentioned. Frantisek ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] SDK vs. device: libSM and libICE
On Tuesday 29 August 2006 14:50, you wrote: Cristian, have a look at this http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2006-July/004489.html My point is that the libs are only in the maemo repository. They are not on the device or the catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com repository. I do not want to install them on the device since I don't even need them. They are just linked because they are found on the SDK. And you can not uninstall them in the SDK because xlibs-dev depends on them. cheers, Christian Henz ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Linux kernel source code
On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 10:41, ext Kimmo Ahola wrote: ... Kernel is compiling cleanly with the cs2005q3.2 toolchain, is there some good reason not to use that to compile whole system (IT2006Maemo2.0 and kernel)??? I believe the kernel and initfs are compiled with a different compiler (and toolchain) as the rest of the system. So, it's different, but I don't know which is it :) I am also a little bit surprised that this mailing-list does not include more people who compiles the kernel by himself/herself (or at least that impression I have gotten). Maybe they don't have to ask any questions like I have done... :-) There should be some howto somewhere... (maybe searching the mailing list archive helps), because the same question has been asked so many times. Best Regards, Kimmo BR; Kimmo (#2) On Tuesday 15 August 2006 13:02, Kimmo Ahola wrote: Hello Daniel, On Tuesday 15 August 2006 12:29, Daniel Stone wrote: On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 12:12:45PM +0300, ext Kimmo Ahola wrote: Just a minor addition. The kernel source 2.6.16 does not contain the WLAN driver (cx3110x) so you have to fetch the code for WLAN from https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x/ By the way, is this announced somewhere? But at least for me the code does not compile correctly, I get the following error: - /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-ld: ERROR: Source object /home/user/cx3110x/umac_arm9.lib has EABI version 0, but target /home/user/cx3110x/umac.o has EABI version 4 Maybe the proprietary part of the driver is compiled with the old version? You need make KERNEL_SRC_DIR=... EABI4=y modules, for IT2006. Cheers, Daniel Thanks for this tip, but it's not helping me. I got the same error when using EABI4=y parameter in 'make'. Cheers, Kimmo ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] rebooting constantly after upgrading packages
Hi, I just did 'apt-get upgrade' with my tablet. After fetching packages it started unpacking and replace them as usual. After it reached maemo-launcher and osso-sounds-ui the tablet rebooted automatically, booted back completely (ran desktop environment and so on). But at this point it worked only for about 10-15 seconds and then rebooted again. Since then it's booting, working for aforementioned time, rebooting again and so on... Any ideas how to proceed now? And what is the reason for this failure? Below is the terminal output: /home/user # apt-get upgrade Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done The following packages have been kept back: libosso-gnomevfs2-0 libosso-gnomevfs2-common The following packages will be upgraded: certs clinkc0 gst-plugins-farsight lessertunjo0 libcst libgalago1 libjinglebase0 libjinglep2p0 libtelepathy maemo-launcher osso-sounds-ui shared-mime-info 12 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded. Need to get 2305kB of archives. After unpacking 2426kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! libcst certs clinkc0 libjinglebase0 libjinglep2p0 gst-plugins-farsight lessertunjo0 libgalago1 libtelepathy maemo-launcher osso-sounds-ui shared-mime-info Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y Get:1 http://bgran.net mistral/user shared-mime-info 0.17-0indt1 [337kB] Get:2 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/free libcst 1.6.34maemo1 [36.7kB] Get:3 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/free certs 1.5.4maemo1 [62.5kB] Get:4 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/non-free clinkc0 1.0-27.1 [56.1kB] Get:5 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/free libjinglebase0 0.3.0-0osso1.2maemo1 [107kB] Get:6 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/free libjinglep2p0 0.3.0-0osso1.2maemo1 [186kB] Get:7 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/free gst-plugins-farsight 0.10.1-0osso2maemo1 [56.5kB] Get:8 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/free lessertunjo0 0.1.2-3maemo1 [13.0kB] Get:9 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/non-free libgalago1 0.5.0-0osso3maemo1 [100kB] Get:10 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/free libtelepathy 0.0.14-0osso1maemo1 [20.8kB] Get:11 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/free maemo-launcher 0.17-1.1sdk1 [42.9kB] Get:12 http://repository.maemo.org mistral/non-free osso-sounds-ui 1.2-4sdk1 [1287kB] Fetched 2305kB in 9s (231kB/s) /bin/sh: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: not found (Reading database ... 11081 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace libcst 1.6.34 (using .../libcst_1.6.34maemo1_armel.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libcst ... Preparing to replace certs 1.5.4 (using .../certs_1.5.4maemo1_armel.deb) ... Unpacking replacement certs ... Preparing to replace clinkc0 1.0-26 (using .../clinkc0_1.0-27.1_armel.deb) ... Unpacking replacement clinkc0 ... Preparing to replace libjinglebase0 0.3.0-0osso1.2 (using .../libjinglebase0_0.3.0-0osso1.2maemo1_armel.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libjinglebase0 ... Preparing to replace libjinglep2p0 0.3.0-0osso1.2 (using .../libjinglep2p0_0.3.0-0osso1.2maemo1_armel.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libjinglep2p0 ... Preparing to replace gst-plugins-farsight 0.10.1-0osso2 (using .../gst-plugins-farsight_0.10.1-0osso2maemo1_armel.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gst-plugins-farsight ... Preparing to replace lessertunjo0 0.1.2-3 (using .../lessertunjo0_0.1.2-3maemo1_armel.deb) ... Stopping lessertunjo: lessertunjo. Unpacking replacement lessertunjo0 ... Preparing to replace libgalago1 0.5.0-0osso3 (using .../libgalago1_0.5.0-0osso3maemo1_armel.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libgalago1 ... Preparing to replace libtelepathy 0.0.14-0osso1 (using .../libtelepathy_0.0.14-0osso1maemo1_armel.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libtelepathy ... Preparing to replace maemo-launcher 0.17-1.1 (using .../maemo-launcher_0.17-1.1sdk1_armel.deb) ... Stopping Maemo Launcher: maemo-launcher. Unpacking replacement maemo-launcher ... Preparing to replace osso-sounds-ui 1.2-4 (using .../osso-sounds-ui_1.2-4sdk1_all.deb) ... Unpacking replacement osso-sounds-ui ... ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: [fbreader] ZBedic integration
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:31:17 +0300 Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 02:26:43 -0400 Kasper Souren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am getting closer to getting MaemoDict to run on Maemo 2.0. But it seems that the binary dictd I'm using is not working. ... dictd is simply taken from the Debian package for the arm architecture. That is probably the problem here. Is it somehow easy to get dictd for armel? Try the one from http://mg.pov.lt/770 (mistral, user). I just built it, haven't tested it. Now I've tested dict (but not dictd). It works, most of the time. Once I got this error: ~ $ dict snake *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x4015 *** but I repeated the command and it worked. Strange. Marius Gedminas -- You have moved the mouse. NT must be restarted for the changes to take effect. pgpdZwfwSjgBG.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Difference between retail rootfs and developer rootfs
2006/8/29, Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What's the difference between the rootfs installed by default on devices that ship with OS2006 and Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.0_armel- rootfs.jffs2 (besides USB networking and root access being enabled)? What does easier debugging mean besides root access? Or to ask another way, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to flash in the developer rootfs? Is saving space the only reason why the device doesn't ship with a rootfs equivalent to the developer one? Simply put, the developer rootfs swaps (most if not all) non-opensource components (applications etc) to debug symbols and some developer-oriented tools (mmc/usbnet plugins and so on). You do not want to flash the developer rootfs on a device you plan to actually use for anything other than developing applications I guess. -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: rebooting constantly after upgrading packages
Andrey Khurri wrote: Hi, I just did 'apt-get upgrade' with my tablet. After fetching packages it started unpacking and replace them as usual. After it reached maemo-launcher and osso-sounds-ui the tablet rebooted automatically, booted back completely (ran desktop environment and so on). But at this point it worked only for about 10-15 seconds and then rebooted again. Since then it's booting, working for aforementioned time, rebooting again and so on... Any ideas how to proceed now? And what is the reason for this failure? Have a look at the recent thread called Reboot Cycle. Seems like a similar symptom, so perhaps it will point you to the right direction. Sebastian ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: rebooting constantly after upgrading packages
Yes, basically you'll need to disable lifeguard flag, and then complete the apt-get upgrade using ssh (when updating maemo-launcher xterm will be killed). Greets. On 8/30/06, Sebastian Spaeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrey Khurri wrote: Hi, I just did 'apt-get upgrade' with my tablet. After fetching packages it started unpacking and replace them as usual. After it reached maemo-launcher and osso-sounds-ui the tablet rebooted automatically, booted back completely (ran desktop environment and so on). But at this point it worked only for about 10-15 seconds and then rebooted again. Since then it's booting, working for aforementioned time, rebooting again and so on... Any ideas how to proceed now? And what is the reason for this failure? Have a look at the recent thread called Reboot Cycle. Seems like a similar symptom, so perhaps it will point you to the right direction. Sebastian ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- (:===:) Alvaro J. Iradier Muro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] SDK vs. device: libSM and libICE
Am Mittwoch, den 30.08.2006, 12:19 +0200 schrieb Christian Henz: On Tuesday 29 August 2006 14:50, you wrote: Cristian, have a look at this http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2006-July/004489.html My point is that the libs are only in the maemo repository. They are not on the device or the catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com repository. I do not want to install them on the device since I don't even need them. They are just linked because they are found on the SDK. And you can not uninstall them in the SDK because xlibs-dev depends on them. This implies some interesting questions which popped up on #maemo yesterday, too. Are packages from the catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com repository only meant to be installed on the device while packages from the repository.maemo.org repository are only meant to be installed in scratchbox? Are packages in repository.maemo.org assumed to allways work on the device or only in scratchbox? I don't think this is clearly documented anywhere and it's even less a common practise because some packages in the application catalog assume and suggest to enter the repository.maemo.org on the device. This is also related to the apt-get upgrade - Reboot Cycle problem which seems to appear more frequently lately. Cheers, Jonek. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] SDK vs. device: libSM and libICE
Hi, My point is that the libs are only in the maemo repository. They are not on the device or the catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com repository. I do not want to install them on the device since I don't even need them. They are just linked because they are found on the SDK. And you can not uninstall them in the SDK because xlibs-dev depends on them. SDK is (mainly) a distro for developing/building packages. Build distro needs to have build dependencies, also for building the build dependencies. It can also have extra stuff like Python bindings etc. that is not found on the device... I think there should be a minimal SDK which contains only the stuff needed for package management and getting packages from the repository. Then there should be a meta-package that pulls in only those packages from the SDK distro that are also present on the target + their -dev packages. Hm. The extra stuff should actually be in the repo and not in the default SDK image. Or if the normal application' build deps pull in also the stuff that is not on the target, then those build-deps' dependencies (xlibs-dev) need to be fixed... - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] ROOTFS
Hi, I have been struggling the last 2 days to get the development root file system running on my 770. I flashed the rootfs you can download and the unit would not come up. I then tried following the remaining directions at http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_use_flasher_rootfs.html but found them some what confusing and was not able to perform the last command. What are the second set of steps accomplishing? What are you having to rebuild that isn't in the downloaded image. I would appreciate any help anyone can give. I am eager to get started on some projects. Thanks. E ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Scratchbox is not an emulator
You can remove the applications on the device and replace them with open source alternatives (e.g. Notes with Leafpad). Didn't know that was easily possible. Or were you expecting to be able to legally take the whole Nokia product SW and commission some Chinese HW manafacturer to make cheap rip-offs maybe...? :-) Not that funny. While I have personally neither interest or capital for doing a clone, having a truly open platform ultimately includes the possibility of clones. IMHO the open part is more interesting than the proprietary one. :-) By definition ...I had expected only the necessary parts (some codecs, maybe BT WiFi drivers) to be proprietary. What I intended to get across, is that nobody's yet provided that open and convenient development platform for embedded Linux with a full package managment system. No, and neither has Nokia yet. The thing has got loads of potential, but as you say it will take time. Embedded Linux is not easy, it's flexible and free. True. Which is why I was wondering about alterative paths ( e. g. a system built upon one main interpreted language + JIT compiler ) because I'm not so sure easy porting of applications is worth more than easy developent in general. Now if I could build packages from most every source deb that compiles in Debian arm ... mmm :) C. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: rebooting constantly after upgrading packages
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Álvaro J. Iradier wrote: Yes, basically you'll need to disable lifeguard flag, and then complete the apt-get upgrade using ssh (when updating maemo-launcher xterm will be killed). This actually depends on which version of osso-xterm is used, the one from maemo[1] repositories does not use maemo-launcher, so it is safe to use; however, the one from maemo-hackers[2] does use, and will be killed. (thanks btw, just noticed that the maemo-hackers version does not depend on maemo-launcher -- need to fix) [1]: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/mistral/free/o/osso-xterm/ [2]: http://maemo-hackers.org/wiki/OssoXterm - -- Santtu Lakkala [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFE9bZDX9Rc0+po4p0RAih3AKCMpkt1cwxTi6AM38E9gnWNck8fdgCgrFb1 nxAsPewbsIqfEyWm5qhxJ8g= =awyL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] ROOTFS
Did you up grade to the IT 2006 OS before flashing the developer rootfs? I think you need to do that first before you flash the 2.0 dev rootfs. info on Internet Tablet 2006 is at: http://www.maemo.org/downloads/releases.html#maemo20 Also you should not need to modify the rootfs just to flash it. Hope that helps, Erin Stadler wrote: Hi, I have been struggling the last 2 days to get the development root file system running on my 770. I flashed the rootfs you can download and the unit would not come up. I then tried following the remaining directions at http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_use_flasher_rootfs.html but found them some what confusing and was not able to perform the last command. What are the second set of steps accomplishing? What are you having to rebuild that isn't in the downloaded image. I would appreciate any help anyone can give. I am eager to get started on some projects. Thanks. E ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] RE: Nokia 770 sources...
On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 11:47 -0400, John B. Holmblad wrote: Andrew, regarding your comment on support for Kimset I would add that with the proliferation of so-called Municipal WIFI networks here in the U.S., it behooves Nokia to make the M770 attractive/useful not only to software developers (the arguable lack of such attractiveness seems to be the underlying theme of this thread started with righteous indignation by ) but also to end users, I know this isn't Nokia's fault (blame Conexant for refusing to talk to the Prism54 people) but if the WLAN driver wasn't binary-only this wouldn't be an issue. Monitor mode is a standard feature of Linux WLAN drivers and IMHO it should work properly. Hopefully someday the islsm/FreeMAC/whatever work will be done and the cx3110x driver can be banished. in the U.S. at least as, increasingly, our cities, towns, and villages are bathed in an Internet connected 802.11 ether. Nokia has a great opportunity to benefit from this trend, but so far, has done a poor job of marketing the N770 in the U.S. for reasons that are not at all clear to me. And soon enough there will be competing Internet Tablet products based on Windows Mobile 5.0 that will, I believe, be priced well below the $US 350.00 price point that Nokia has set for the N770. I am certainly not a mainstream consumer electronics shopper, but I have absolutely no interest in any PDA or handheld gadget running Windows Mobile. I fail to understand why there are so _many_ of them when there are relatively few actual choices to be made--Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. is about the only differentiating factor these days. Yes, the 770 is expensive but well worth it in my opinion, even if it is just to break out of Windows CE clone-world. Related to this question of how to make a product based on the LInux operating system successful in the broader consumer market, Eric Raymond, at the US Linuxworld conference, warned his audience that unless Linux purist/developers are willing to, in effect, get off the dry rock of principle, and allow binary drivers (i.e. closed source) as part of the package/distro, then such products will fail in the marketplace. Here is the url to an article in the Register that summarizes his comments http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/17/eric_raymond_linux_compromise/ From what I can tell, it seems that Nokia, with respect to the 770, is aligning itself with Eric Raymond's thinking, that is, to allow parts of the distro to be closed source, by withholding parts of the Nokia source code for competitive or other reasons. Disallowing or not tolerating binary drivers is not a matter of principle that can simply be dropped. It is a matter of keeping Linux as the high quality platform it is--i.e. allowing anyone who is capable to fix bugs in drivers. Relying on vendors to do this, as you have to with binary-only drivers, is a sure way to get burned--just ask anyone who has had to deal with BSODs in Windows. Greg Kroah-Hartman is probably the main kernel hacker who has led the charge against binary drivers and has a very pragmatic and practical position against them. He wrote, for example, the StableApiNonsense.txt file that can be found in the kernel distribution's Documentation/ directory explaining why you (e.g. the prospective binary-only or out-of-tree driver vendor) want your driver in the mainline kernel and don't even know it. Despite the concerns I mentioned in my earlier post on this thread, I am sure Nokia's lawyers have squared the corners of their compliance with the LInux software licensing regime while keeping parts of the software closed source. In that case Nokia should be doing as much as possible (as Microsoft does for example) to make it drop dead simple for software developers to add value to the base product by having a software development environment that is compelling in terms of ease of use. In my opinion, many people on this list are frustrated by the very fact that Nokia is treating them as application developers and by and large denying people the opportunity to hack on the 770 internals and the included applications. That is not the expectation that some had when they purchased their 770 (myself included). Nokia has to decide if it wants to court application developers, in the sense that Microsoft does, or an open-source community that wants hackability. The Microsoft route does have pitfalls, because making things too easy, e.g. Visual Basic, just leads to the proliferation of poorly written commercial software, making your platform look bad in the process. I get the sense that that the lack of this ease of use for developers is really the root cause of the anger that is so obvious in the tone of Allesandro's original post. In this case, shooting the (angry) messenger, as some on this list seem to want to do, will not make Nokia's problem go away, and failing to address the concern he raises will eventually serve to
RE: [maemo-developers] ROOTFS
That was exactly the issue. Thanks. -Original Message- From: Gareth Bailey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:16 AM To: Erin Stadler Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: [maemo-developers] ROOTFS Did you up grade to the IT 2006 OS before flashing the developer rootfs? I think you need to do that first before you flash the 2.0 dev rootfs. info on Internet Tablet 2006 is at: http://www.maemo.org/downloads/releases.html#maemo20 Also you should not need to modify the rootfs just to flash it. Hope that helps, Erin Stadler wrote: Hi, I have been struggling the last 2 days to get the development root file system running on my 770. I flashed the rootfs you can download and the unit would not come up. I then tried following the remaining directions at http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_use_flasher_rootfs.html but found them some what confusing and was not able to perform the last command. What are the second set of steps accomplishing? What are you having to rebuild that isn't in the downloaded image. I would appreciate any help anyone can give. I am eager to get started on some projects. Thanks. E ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: Scratchbox is not an emulator
On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 18:00 +0200, Christian Pernegger wrote: Or were you expecting to be able to legally take the whole Nokia product SW and commission some Chinese HW manafacturer to make cheap rip-offs maybe...? :-) Not that funny. While I have personally neither interest or capital for doing a clone, having a truly open platform ultimately includes the possibility of clones. The platform is open, and that is the intention of Maemo. Note the word platform. Some of the applications on the 770 are not open for various reasons (you'll have to ask Opera for the source to the browser, Macromedia for Flash player, etc) as they are the added-value of using a Maemo-based device from Nokia, opposed to some other company (although there are non yet). Ross -- Ross Burton mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] RE: Nokia 770 sources...
2006/8/30, Andrew Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 11:47 -0400, John B. Holmblad wrote: Andrew, regarding your comment on support for Kimset I would add that with the proliferation of so-called Municipal WIFI networks here in the U.S., it behooves Nokia to make the M770 attractive/useful not only to software developers (the arguable lack of such attractiveness seems to be the underlying theme of this thread started with righteous indignation by ) but also to end users, I know this isn't Nokia's fault (blame Conexant for refusing to talk to the Prism54 people) but if the WLAN driver wasn't binary-only this wouldn't be an issue. Monitor mode is a standard feature of Linux WLAN drivers and IMHO it should work properly. Hopefully someday the islsm/FreeMAC/whatever work will be done and the cx3110x driver can be banished. Forgive me if I'm ignorant, but do you mean this one: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x/ License: GNU General Public License (GPL) doesn't sound too binary, even though GPL tends to be a bit black-and-white in it's license compatibility regulation... ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] RE: Nokia 770 sources...
On 8/30/06, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2006/8/30, Andrew Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED]:Forgive me if I'm ignorant, but do you mean this one: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x/It would be good if that page was really alive.-Paulo Pires ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] RE: Nokia 770 sources...
On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 19:47 +0300, Kalle Vahlman wrote: Forgive me if I'm ignorant, but do you mean this one: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x/ License: GNU General Public License (GPL) doesn't sound too binary, even though GPL tends to be a bit black-and-white in it's license compatibility regulation... ;) AFAICT the license is at least partially incorrect. Look in the Subversion repo and you'll see that it's one of those source-wrapper-around-a-binary-blob style drivers. -- Andrew Barr | http://www.oakcourt.dyndns.org/~andrew/ Buzzword detected (core dumped) -- seen on linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] RE: Nokia 770 sources...
2006/8/30, Andrew Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 19:47 +0300, Kalle Vahlman wrote: Forgive me if I'm ignorant, but do you mean this one: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x/ License: GNU General Public License (GPL) doesn't sound too binary, even though GPL tends to be a bit black-and-white in it's license compatibility regulation... ;) AFAICT the license is at least partially incorrect. And so I am fooled to be ignorant :/ Look in the Subversion repo and you'll see that it's one of those source-wrapper-around-a-binary-blob style drivers. Hmm, I've always been under the impression that any kind of combination of binary-only and GPL code would be in violation... IANAL of course. -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] RE: Nokia 770 sources...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kalle Vahlman schreef: Hmm, I've always been under the impression that any kind of combination of binary-only and GPL code would be in violation... IANAL of course. Slightly a different issue, but a nice read anyway: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html closed source kernel modules are unethical regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFE9cnGMkyGM64RGpERApQIAKCSBPxJkcuhGUClj2k1lwfgHQPIVwCdHJ/f YJb/wto/FZHSDPML2vMohrI= =jowI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Scratchbox is not an emulator
Some of the applications on the 770 are not open for various reasons There were a few examples of stuff that might understandably be closed in my last post, feel free to add Opera to that, even Flash if you like (as old as the supplied version is, one of the FOSS re-writes might give it a run for its money, though ^^) From reading this list and the fact that the chroot environment is quite bare I got the impression that even stuff Nokia did not license from other companies but develop themselves was closed as well -- that might well be wrong, so I'll go look through the svn before I say anything else :) C. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] community
Ola,
[Obs: I think the correct list for this to go to would be
maemo-community but since that is not an option on
http://www.maemo.org/community/mailing-lists.html I am posting here]
[Obs2: This is intended as constructive criticism. Any other inference
was not my intent]
Creating a strong and vibrant community around the 770 would be good for
everyone,right. Compared to some other 'corporate' efforts
http://port25.technet.com/default.aspx (Anonymous comments have been
disabled due to feedback from site visitors) ;), Nokia are doing OK .
Compared to the community effort around Ubuntu , Nokia are doing really
badly.
This is because at the start of its 'openness', Nokia lacked an
understanding of OSS hackers.
To a big business the bottom line is profit and control. If you have
control of your products,teams and users you can invest in the latest
technology and be relevant. Any kind of strategy is usually product
and/or accounts orientated, which means input from development,
financing and marketing departments.
As such the frescuras (sorry , there is no English word for this), make
up and feelings of a wide ranging group of OSS Hackers, came way down
the list of priorities.
This needs to change. Some good things to think about, I think, would be:
Moving away from the 'working on the product (which is hidden under a
sheet in warehouse 2) which we roll out to the community on
{insert_date}' for contributions type of OSS development that still
happens at Nokia .
Make us (the community) feel that suggestions/criticism's are listened
to and *acted* on if necessary.
Where is the user submitted artwork,themes. I submit my artwork where?
The planet http://planet.maemo.org/ needs some love and attention to say
the least
When doing anything concerning Nokia and Open Source ask -
Why should the community get excited about this, write quality code for
it , blog about it and work insanely long hours (for free) doing so
(these ideas are lifted directly from Ubuntu)
Create a Community Council which governs the evolution of the community
Create a Code of Conduct which covers the behaviour from community
members in any kind of communication, electronic or in real life
HTH
[]'s
Ian
.''`.
: :' :
`. `'`
`- Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS to set it on,
and I can move the world
http://manaus.metareciclagem.org
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Re: [maemo-developers] RE: Nokia 770 sources...
On 8/30/06, Koen Kooi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-Hash: SHA1Kalle Vahlman schreef: Hmm, I've always been under the impression that any kind of combination of binary-only and GPL code would be in violation... IANAL of course.Slightly a different issue, but a nice read anyway:http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.htmlclosed source kernel modules are unethical regards,KoenUnfortunately, I don't think the waters are all that clear in this situation.IANAL but it is my understanding that most countries have RFI laws that do not allow RF chip manufacturers to allow their users to modify their chips to switch to licensed bands or use an amount of power that brings it into a licenseable realm. It is not just the case of the law saying that a user can't operate in certain realms ... the user can't even be allowed to *possibly* operate in certain realms. So if an embedded chip is flexible enough, the manufacturers nerf it with a binary blob. So you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Open up everything to comply with the GPL and violate RF Spectrum laws in some countries. Wrap a binary blob to satisfy RF regulators and you run a fowl of the GPL. Both these demands are put in place for good reasons. However, they are mutually incompatible. The courts will have to sort out which takes precedence but it would be my guess that the RFI law would as violating it could threaten lives (broadcasting in aircraft radio navigation bands, scrambling police frequencies, etc.) where as violating the GPL would be rarely life-threatening. The way that some manufacturers get around the problem is to nerf things at the hardware level. If the chip can't do it at that level, no amount of software/firmware hacking will get around that and they are free to open up all the specs to the hardware. I think where the conflict really occurs is when the manufacturer software-nerfs the chip too much and cuts out some vital access that programmers/users want. Then they refuse to put in the legal/development time and resources to change their firmware to relax things a bit because they would then have to seek approval from the regulatory body yet again. Nasty vicious circle :[ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] RE: Nokia 770 sources...
On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 15:56 -0400, Michael Wiktowy wrote: Unfortunately, I don't think the waters are all that clear in this situation. No, unfortunately they're not. IANAL but it is my understanding that most countries have RFI laws that do not allow RF chip manufacturers to allow their users to modify their chips to switch to licensed bands or use an amount of power that brings it into a licenseable realm. It is not just the case of the law saying that a user can't operate in certain realms ... the user can't even be allowed to *possibly* operate in certain realms. So if an embedded chip is flexible enough, the manufacturers nerf it with a binary blob. The legal reasoning has been debated extensively on LKML and elsewhere multiple times, but I think it's worth pointing out that not everyone buys the regulation argument. That the regulations require withholding source code is, as I understand it, the prevailing interpretation among corporate attorneys rather than language in any particular regulation. Do a search at lkml.org for the recent ipw3945 discussions for details. In all reality the world's communications regulation agencies need to address the issue of open source code and software radios with updated regulations, and in the very least WLAN vendors will no longer have an excuse to hide behind, should that be what they are doing--I suspect at least some of them are. -- Andrew Barr | http://www.oakcourt.dyndns.org/~andrew/ Buzzword detected (core dumped) -- seen on linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: RE: Nokia 770 sources...
Hi, On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:56:12 +0200, Christian Pernegger wrote: I am just telling some truths that others should know. I'm with you insofar as - setting up the developent environment was a bitch yeah. Better now, though. Or I got used to it o_O - it still doesn't give you the same environment as a real 770 apparently - C++ plus custom framework doesn't exactly lend itself to RAD It's C (plus gobjects) :) maybe a scripting language (python, ruby, whatever) or even Java would have been a better choice. Not enough room for garbage collection (think huge arena for sorting). And a python port does exist for the nokia... although... well... not enough room for garbage collection, as I said :) A lot of people, me included, don't have a clue about cross-compiling or embedded development. scratchbox pretty much takes care of all the details, so _once it works_ it's VERY nice. The only command I have to remember is 'dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot' now, and I created a build_package script for that, so... :) cheers, Danny ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] community
Paulo Pires wrote: Ola, Ubuntu took time to get where it is and it was heavily funded as it is today. Ola, Mmm..I don' t think funding has much to do with it. It has to do with approach. Ubuntu sees the distribution model from a different perspective,completely the opposite from normal business practices - Invest heavily (I am not just talking money) in the community side with the plan on making it an economic asset later. This has generated the sort of publicity I imagine Nokia would love and it seems to be working out financially too (IBM DB2, Sun SPARC support and so on). This is a good read on Ubuntu's Community strategy: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/47 Ok, things are not as OPEN as some of us expected but I see a lot of good will and a great effort in order to get things alive and kicking. lots of great OSS developers coming onboard too...for sure there is good effort and goodwill so we need to ask why it sometimes feels like pulling teeth getting things done One thing is for sure, for costumers Nokia 770 will have a longer and heathier life than usual internet tablets/PDAs cause it's a great tool which is getting richer as the time goes by. For OSS hackers, that's another story which only time will solve.. but with good opinions/suggestions/critics, and not flame wars, right? ;-) you said it ;) []'s Ian -- .''`. : :' : `. `'` `- Orgulhoso ser MetaRecicleiro http://manaus.metareciclagem.org ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] community
Well you cannot compare things like an open-source OS (Linux) and its bundled tools as a distro (Ubuntu) to something like Nokia 770 (hardware device). Now if we're talking about comparing the way Ubuntu works to how IT200xOS works, that's another thing.. ;-) -Paulo PiresOn 8/30/06, vern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paulo Pires wrote: Ola, Ubuntu took time to get where it is and it was heavily funded as it is today.Ola,Mmm..I don' t think funding has much to do with it. It has to do withapproach. Ubuntu sees the distribution modelfrom a different perspective,completely the opposite from normal business practices -Invest heavily (I am not just talking money) in the community side withthe plan on making it an economic asset later. This has generated the sort of publicity I imagine Nokia would loveand it seems to be workingout financially too(IBM DB2, SunSPARCsupport and so on).This is a good read on Ubuntu's Community strategy: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/47 Ok, things are not as OPEN as some of us expected but I see a lot of good will and a great effort in order to get things alive and kicking.lots of great OSS developers coming onboard too...for sure there is good effort and goodwill so we need to ask why it sometimes feels likepulling teeth getting things done One thing is for sure, for costumers Nokia 770 will have a longer and heathier life than usual internet tablets/PDAs cause it's a great tool which is getting richer as the time goes by. For OSS hackers, that's another story which only time will solve.. but with good opinions/suggestions/critics, and not flame wars, right? ;-)you said it ;) []'sIan--.''`. : :': `. `'` `- Orgulhoso ser MetaRecicleirohttp://manaus.metareciclagem.org ___maemo-developers mailing listmaemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: RE: Nokia 770 sources...
Hi, On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:12:06 -0400, Andrew Barr wrote: On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 15:56 -0400, Michael Wiktowy wrote: Unfortunately, I don't think the waters are all that clear in this situation. No, unfortunately they're not. IANAL but it is my understanding that most countries have RFI laws that do not allow RF chip manufacturers to allow their users to modify their chips to switch to licensed bands or use an amount of power that brings it into a licenseable realm. It is not just the case of the law saying that a user can't operate in certain realms ... the user can't even be allowed to *possibly* operate in certain realms. Give me wire, a jar and a diode and I'll build you a device that does exactly that in 2 minutes. Oooh radio is sooo complicated. NOT. Let's outlaw wire (the most important part here - or is it the diode? :)). So if an embedded chip is flexible enough, the manufacturers nerf it with a binary blob. Unneccessary, see below. The legal reasoning has been debated extensively on LKML and elsewhere multiple times, but I think it's worth pointing out that not everyone buys the regulation argument. That the regulations require withholding source code is, as I understand it, the prevailing interpretation among corporate attorneys rather than language in any particular regulation. Do a search at lkml.org for the recent ipw3945 discussions for details. The law defines what people are forbidden to do. Regulations define how people are supposed to use shared media. Devices are not people. The tool is not the wielder. Did I miss anything? In all reality the world's communications regulation agencies need to address the issue of open source code and software radios with updated regulations, and in the very least WLAN vendors will no longer have an excuse to hide behind, should that be what they are doing--I suspect at least some of them are. Yes, they are hiding, obviously. I thought we had the we-are-only-protecting-you-from-yourself laws scrubbed by now, but maybe I'm wrong... cheers, Danny ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] community
On Wed, 2006-30-08 at 21:45 +0100, Paulo Pires wrote: Ola, Ubuntu took time to get where it is and it was heavily funded as it is today. I believe Nokia 770 will get much further (comparing to its current state) with time too. Well if they don't get their act together and fix the white screen of death it won't be a pretty picture. Mine just went after 4 months of having my 770. Seems there are many pissed off people who have had more than one and sometimes three fail. But of course most on this list probably already know that. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: RE: Nokia 770 sources...
Title: Best Regards, Danny, your point concerning radio complexity is well taken. Forbes had an article last year entitled "Does Open-Source Software Make The FCC Irrelevant?" Here is the url to the www page for that article for those interested: http://www.forbes.com/business/2005/10/18/open-source-software-FCC_cz_df_1018opensource.html Best Regards, John Holmblad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:12:06 -0400, Andrew Barr wrote: On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 15:56 -0400, Michael Wiktowy wrote: Unfortunately, I don't think the waters are all that clear in this situation. No, unfortunately they're not. IANAL but it is my understanding that most countries have RFI laws that do not allow RF chip manufacturers to allow their users to modify their chips to switch to licensed bands or use an amount of power that brings it into a licenseable realm. It is not just the case of the law saying that a user can't operate in certain realms ... the user can't even be allowed to *possibly* operate in certain realms. Give me wire, a jar and a diode and I'll build you a device that does exactly that in 2 minutes. Oooh radio is sooo complicated. NOT. Let's outlaw wire (the most important part here - or is it the diode? :)). So if an embedded chip is flexible enough, the manufacturers nerf it with a binary blob. Unneccessary, see below. The legal reasoning has been debated extensively on LKML and elsewhere multiple times, but I think it's worth pointing out that not everyone buys the regulation argument. That the regulations require withholding source code is, as I understand it, the prevailing interpretation among corporate attorneys rather than language in any particular regulation. Do a search at lkml.org for the recent ipw3945 discussions for details. The law defines what people are forbidden to do. Regulations define how people are supposed to use shared media. Devices are not people. The tool is not the wielder. Did I miss anything? In all reality the world's communications regulation agencies need to address the issue of open source code and software radios with updated regulations, and in the very least WLAN vendors will no longer have an excuse to hide behind, should that be what they are doing--I suspect at least some of them are. Yes, they are hiding, obviously. I thought we had the we-are-only-protecting-you-from-yourself laws scrubbed by now, but maybe I'm wrong... cheers, Danny ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Re: Scratchbox is not an emulator
On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 21:11 +0100, Ross Burton wrote: I seriously doubt that a Free Flash will match the official Flash for some time, but that is another story. The blog for the Linux port of Flash is very interesting: http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/. One of the recent posts talks about the Flash rendering model and how it's impossible (well, near impossible) to use Cairo to implement the Flash rendering model: it has to be implemented from scratch, including all of the weird bugs from old versions that are relied upon in large amounts of content. Are you talking about Gnash?[1] It's in OpenGL (they were/are experimenting with Cairo) and based off of the public-domain GameSWF project which already does all of SWF v7 and most of ActionScript. It is also actively developed with lots of commits occurring every day. Surely you can't be talking about Gnash... :) That penguin.swf blog is only mildly interesting, though. Cairo (do they mean XRender too or just Cairo?) might not work but if you've ever used the Linux Flash player on anything but cutting-edge hardware you know they need to use some kind of graphics acceleration. It's amazing it works as good as it does. Combining the quality of their Linux player that we have now and some of the posts I've read there I'm not too hopeful for an improved Linux Flash experience until Gnash starts working better. Not that I want to see 99% of the Flash content out there anyway... [1] http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/ The same argument is that Wine will give Windows a run for it's money. The devil is in the details. Not really, because Wine implements the Win32 userland (and quite a lot of it too, check out their progress pages) and nothing (well, almost nothing) from the NT kernel space. Their goal is to run Windows apps on Linux, and at that they do an amazingly good job given the differences between Windows and X11, and if you consider that Win32 was never designed to be cross-platform. They don't care about Windows drivers and such so they aren't really trying to give Windows a run for it's money. But this is off topic... I can say for sure that the addressbook application in IT2006 is closed source, Why? It doesn't make sense. although the backend is open source (it's Evolution Data Server, LGPL). For the rest of the user-level applications its a mixed bag as far as I know: some are open source as they are derived from existing open source software, and some are closed. It is not as if the community and/or a competing hardware manufacturer couldn't replace these apps relatively easily. That's why I don't understand the reasoning behind withholding their source code. This competing hardware manufacturer nonsense needs to go, BTW. Nokia has not even established that there is a viable market for the 770 as it stands now--these Chinese manufacturers everyone keeps talking about are going to be more interested in producing (yet another) Windows CE clone-device for which there is at least an established market. -- Andrew Barr | http://www.oakcourt.dyndns.org/~andrew/ Buzzword detected (core dumped) -- seen on linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: What has happend with ogg-vorbis in IT200?
Hi, On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:22:15 +0300, Siarhei Siamashka wrote: On Sunday 23 July 2006 16:28, Clemens Eisserer wrote: I can't believe it, what has happend to ogg vorbis support in IT2006. Nokia more or less promised it (said they don't have enough time to do it in IT2005). Feel free to add your vote for this issue in bugzilla: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=176 Actually it is second rated issue after 2GB RS-MMC cards support at the moment :) I don't care about hw-accaleration, it maybe would take 2-3hours to implement it in software with the work which has already been done and the libraries available - maybe it would be possible to get an NDA and implement it mayself? Check this link, seems like it contains the information you are looking for: http://maemo.org/platform/docs/multimedia/getting_started.html From that page: 2. [...] Add audio/x-vorbis to /usr/share/applications/hildon/osso-music-player.desktop and /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache I think one is supposed to call update-desktop-database instead :) (I needed that recently, so it's still fresh in my mind) cheers, Danny ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Re: Scratchbox is not an emulator
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:47:33PM -0400, ext Andrew Barr wrote: That penguin.swf blog is only mildly interesting, though. Cairo (do they mean XRender too or just Cairo?) might not work but if you've ever used the Linux Flash player on anything but cutting-edge hardware you know they need to use some kind of graphics acceleration. It's amazing it works as good as it does. It depends. If you need pixel-perfect rendering, then this is actually impossible, because either the spec (e.g. Render, which does exactly the opposite of what people expect with respect to some things, like rounding the wrong way) will specify behaviour you don't want, or in the case of hardware acceleration, it's unspecified. Case in point: you can't accelerate wide lines and have a strictly-conformant X server. The spec detailed the exact algorithm for how the lines had to be rasterised. For a start, it was horrendously ugly and the lines looked awful, but secondly, it means you can't use hardware acceleration, because you're not going to get lines that are pixel-perfect to the spec. So, there's not a great deal Flash could accelerate, even if it did want to. It does its own rasterising for very good reasons. Cheers, Daniel ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: What has happend with ogg-vorbis in IT200?
Hi, On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:22:15 +0300, Siarhei Siamashka wrote: [...] Check this link, seems like it contains the information you are looking for: http://maemo.org/platform/docs/multimedia/getting_started.html I tried this and can't get it to work. After doing all the steps, the file manager still doesn't display an audio icon for ogg vorbis files, although icon-theme.cache does contain the string vorbis 2 times. Details in File Manager will show audio/x-vorbis just fine. Clicking on it will open Audio Player. And that will hang for a bit and then unhelpfully say: Playback error (something to that extent) and that's it. The page doesn't really mention which exact gstreamer version to use, so I tried http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/src/gst-plugins-bad/gst-plugins- bad-0.10.3.tar.gz and the Tremor version from trunk from 10 minutes ago. Copied the compiled files to the Nokia 770, called ldconfig just in case (although that's not mentioned) and no go... Guess I'll compile gst-tools, too, and check up on the plugin. cheers, Danny ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Re: RE: [maemo-users] Future features for Maemo Desktop (Task Navigator, Home, Status bar)?
Hi, Traditional as I am when it comes to GUIs, I'd like to have a panel like this (think icons instead of text in the following): [Mail] [Feed] [Web] [All Applications] Each of those shall be a launcher. If one of them were running, it shall be marked as such: [Mail] [Feed] [Web (1)] [All Applications] Clicking on a launcher when 1) application is already running and 2) application is marked as unique-instance should cause the existing application window to be activated. Clicking on a launcher when 1) application is already running and 2) application is NOT marked as unique-instance should cause a menu to pop up that lets you 1) activate the existing application window(s) or 2) launch another instance of it The Application entry is supposed to open the application menu (for all the rest of the applications). If user then launches an application using the menu rather than from a panel launcher, it should add a taskbar entry for it to the panel (panel = taskbar, taskbar = panel :)). If user then drags this taskbar entry to where the launchers are / says create shortcut from the popup menu, it shall become a launcher and not vanish from the panel automatically ever again. Otherwise it will vanish as soon as the application is quit. That's what I see the panel as. Basically all I have on my desktop is the panel. No separate taskbar (in the traditional sense), no separate tray area, no window list menu... just a panel. But this panel will allow me to access all my 1) favourite applications and 2) running applications If now an application wanted to do a status-like display, it would just modify its own icon, so 3) status displays Note that as the number of panel icons grows, the size of panel icons should go down, so that one essentially never runs out of panel space. That's what my current experiment on my desktop pc is like, too... Haha. As if anyone else would find that sane :-) But anyway. That's what I find most useable. I'm probably in the (1 person?) minority in that, though :) cheers, Danny ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Kismet now usable
I don't know how many of you frequent the Internet Tablet Talk forums (I don't--I was looking for Maemo Mapper info) but someone posted there[1] that the Kismet web site says that they now have code to validate frames reported by the WLAN driver--so theoretically goodbye to the ghost network issue. [1] http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2938page=1pp=10 -- Andrew Barr | http://www.oakcourt.dyndns.org/~andrew/ Buzzword detected (core dumped) -- seen on linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Scratchbox is not an emulator
From reading this list and the fact that the chroot environment is quite bare I got the impression that even stuff Nokia did not license from other companies but develop themselves was closed as well -- that might well be wrong, so I'll go look through the svn before I say anything else :) It's a mix. Some Nokia developed software is open, particularly at the platform level: hildon widgets, UI framework and so on. Some of it is proprietary particularly at the application level. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
