Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 08:45:35PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> True. We then migrated the list to another of their servers that already
> existed, but the rejections
> became even more.

I'd still do a gradual ramp-up to N recipients with the 'standard' type of
messages/headers/patterns for each new sending pattern, nowadays, rather than
just "these IPs have been used before…".


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 07:11:16PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> one of their co-lo facilities in the US closed down and they had to move to
> another co-lo. This obviously involved migration of servers/ change of IP
> addresses and this has not gone well for one of my mailing lists which has

An influx of mail from a new host, rather than a increase over time probably
didn't/doesn't help either.

(I've not seen any feature in Mailman that does
limiting based on destination, and wouldn't expect that to be a feature of
Mailman 2; I might even advocate it should not be a feature in MM3, either.)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] problems unsubscribing from lists using email address?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 08:45:11PM +1000, Adam Morris wrote:
> in the footer of messages for lists I run I put a link for people to
> unsubscribe.
> 
> the link is
> 
> listname dash unsubscribe@domain.
> 
> If someone clicks on this link and sends a message there is no confirmation
> and they stay subscribed.
> 
> If i go to the members interface and untick the box they get unsubscribed.
> 
> 
> If someone tries to subscribe using the same method it works fine.
> 
> Assistance appreciated.

Do you have the "-unsubscribe" suffix set-up in your MTA? Either globally, or
for that/those list(s)?

For exim, something like `exim -bt foo-unsubscr...@lists.example.net` should
help you.

It's possibly worth checking the logs of your MTA to see what happens, as well
as the Mailman 'subscribe' log.

I'm guessing this isn't as simple as the link not being
"mailto:foo-unsubscribe…; (but wouldn't rule that out).


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 11:25:21AM -0700, Chris Nulk wrote:
> On 3/23/2016 10:39 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> > https://gist.github.com/adamamyl/6909815#file-rename-list
> >
> >may be useful
> >
> >invoked as `rename-list old-list new-list`
> >
> Thanks for the info Adam.  I was planning on creating a script to do
> the renaming like your script.   While looking at the Mailman FAQ's
> on renaming a list, I saw the link to Mark's clone_list.  To make it
> easier for the group that would be using the script, I added in the
> bits to also copy the archives and rebuild them.  I am just happy I
> don't have to write the bash script I was planning.  The process has
> eighteen steps including notifying the list owner (important), doing
> the work, verifying everything, and administrative work.  The new
> process using clone_list has seven steps most of which is
> administrative.

I wrote mine on the bits I needed; change the list name, swing
archives, quick exim redirect/alias entry…

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a list

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 11:02:10AM -0700, Chris Nulk wrote:
> I have a copy of Mark's clone_list command and it will allow us to
> rename lists.  Which is great and not a problem for me.  However, I
> am not the person normally involved with list creation, etc. Another
> group does it.  Normally through the web interface which works well
> for them.  Unless a mistake is made then they have to use the
> command line tools.  Again, not a problem for me but that group has
> very limited knowledge of linux/unix and Mailman.

If they can be assumed to use old list and new list as parameters
(although I could do a check for each…) 

https://gist.github.com/adamamyl/6909815#file-rename-list 

may be useful

invoked as `rename-list old-list new-list`

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS: Forbidden You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this server

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 05:22:15PM +, Adam McGreggor wrote:
> https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/upgrading.html#run-time also springs
> to mind.

Although with a ScriptAlias, this may not be necessary (but for
/pipermail/ etc probably useful).


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS: Forbidden You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mailman on this server

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 09:14:31AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 02/03/2016 02:09 PM, Peter W. Caton wrote:
> > Forbidden

[ … ]
> Check /etc/apache2/mods-enabled. There should be a symlink

https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/upgrading.html#run-time also springs
to mind.

(as a side note, Peter, do you really want /cgi-bin/ in your URIs?
https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI springs to mind)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a server

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 06:33:42PM +, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> > I've not hosted a mailman list in a long while. I'm trying to help
> > some folks migrate a list with ten years of archives and no current
> > subscribers just to make the archives indexable by the various search
> > engines. I see the list of >hosting services on wiki.list.org, but I'd
> > appreciate actual recommendations (or pointers to prioritized lists),
> > not an unprioritized list.  
> Have you tried mail-archive.com? Last
> time I used them I think they can take a Mailman mbox file and turn it
> into an archive.

Or google groups?
https://gist.github.com/adamamyl/02a8f44981c8685f9c88 reminds me of
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-October/077893.html


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Re: [Mailman-Users] strange interaction between mailman and google docs

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Dec 01, 2015 at 09:07:01AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/30/2015 02:48 PM, Ottoson Webmaster wrote:
> > The problem is only *from google docs to non-google email in mailman list*
> 
> It is difficult to even guess what might be happening without more
> information. Someone needs to look at logs on the Mailman server to see
> what is happening to the message to non-gmail recipients. I'm certain
> Mailman is sending it so what is the outgoing MTA doing with it. Is it
> being delivered to the MX servers for the non-gmail recipients?

If your Google (docs) account is one that is a member of one of the
plans that has access to the Google email log search, there might be
some light in there, too
(https://support.google.com/a/answer/2604578?hl=en).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman cgi error after server restart

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 10:25:23PM -0400, Kai Liu wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> My server is Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES release 4. I installed mailman
> 2.1.3 and postfix. It has worked for 4 years.

Your version of Mailman is almost 10 years old. I'd be inclined to
upgrade that.

> Yesterday I restarted the
> server, but found I can not go to thehttp://MyDomain/mailman/create
>  page. It shows the following error:
> 
> Mailman CGI error!!!
> 
> The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being
> stored in your syslog:
> 
> Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI
> wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
> the system's web server executed the CGI script as
> group "apache".  Try tweaking the web server to run the
> script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,
> providing the command line option `--with-cgi-gid=apache'.

check_perms is the (Mailman) script you want.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Limiting number of failed login attempts

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Oct 04, 2015 at 11:43:55AM +0530, Aditya Jain wrote:
> On Sunday 04 October 2015 07:28 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > fail2ban runs on (in this case) the machine on which Mailman's web
> > interface runs. It monitors the web server logs and looks for (in this
> > case) a minimum number of 401 errors within a given time window from a
> > single IP and if found uses iptables or similar to block access from
> > that IP for a defined time.
> >
> I run multiple websites on the same IP and same port. Therefore I was
> looking for something that is inside mailman so that access to other
> websites is not blocked in case the attempts were genuine. For now I
> think I can manage with long passwords.

From the Subject: line, I was going to suggest use of fail2ban…

It doesn't matter if there are other sites/services hosted on the same
machine/address; fail2ban works on patterns matching in logfiles; if
you only want to look at Mailman errors, only configure fail2ban to
look at the Mailman (vhost) logs.

If you've got (brute force attempt) issues from one host / botnet,
preventing access to other things, is surely an added win?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Limiting number of failed login attempts

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 12:07:25AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Perhaps a per-user login attempt limit would work for you.  Each
> (ab)user is different.  But I don't think it's a good idea for a
> supported feature of Mailman, it's too fragile and it would be an
> invitation to an endless series of "improvements" as the admins get in
> arms races with the rogues.

Very much a +1, especially if we're looking at modern design, then
this could (for those wanting it) be a plugin, or shocker, using
something already out there.

> It might be possible to revisit this in Mailman 3 (when we get a
> unified authn/authz story) using a token-based approach where the
> token is acquired somewhere that already has a stronger authentication
> story.  But that will require serious coding.

I think I'd prefer the ability to void/regenerate tokens, rather than
anything else. Although with sophisticated API management tools,
shaping may be an option…

I'm not an advocate for "fixing" things in the application, rather
than at say, transport/network layer; to setup Mailman, one's
in(evit|vari)ably going to need root access anyhow, so one might as
well do things properly.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] at Slayter 7pm TOMORROW Wed., FREE Beginner lesson, Live Band

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 01:43:17PM -0400, Ryan Anderson wrote:
> Why won't this message send to my group? I have sent things before,
> including a message that said "help" as the subject. I tried using "help"
> as a subject but it didn't go. What do you all see?

Is it a case of that wonderful gmail feature:

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6588

> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Ryan Anderson 
> Date: Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:02 PM
> Subject: Swing at Slayter 7pm TOMORROW Wed., FREE Beginner lesson, Live Band
> To: "One List, Mass e-mail" 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Restricting access to the pipermail archives

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 01:43:27AM -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
 I want to give my users archives, but require authentication to access the
 archives.  They should not be accessible to non-members.
 
 How can I tie mailman's existing authentication (which can for example
 conceal the member list from non-members), into pipermail?

How about something that steps through each list's list_members,
extracts their Mailman password, runs that (their Mailman password)
through htpasswd, appends to an htaccess file, which you'd then use
for authorization against a LocationMatch rule in Apache (or the
equivalent in nginx) -- LocationMatch, so you can use regexp for the
filename to correspond to the listname.

Cron it, and problem solved?

A


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Restricting access to the pipermail archives

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 09:08:43AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 On 08/19/2015 11:43 PM, Billy Crook wrote:
  I want to give my users archives, but require authentication to access the
  archives.  They should not be accessible to non-members.
  
  How can I tie mailman's existing authentication (which can for example
  conceal the member list from non-members), into pipermail?
 
 
 On the web admin Archiving Options page for the list, set
 archive_private to 'private'.

Which is (much) simpler than the way I suggested, thinking you were
after something for all list members, regardless of which list.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] client denied by server configuration: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 09:17:55AM +0200, Martin Skjöldebrand wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Trying to get mailman to behave using this guide:https://www.howtoforg
 e.com/how-to-install-and-configure-mailman-with-postfix-on-debian
 -squeeze even though I'm on Jessie.
 
 I get the above error in /var/log/apache2/list-error 
 
 [Thu Aug 13 09:09:10.563936 2015] [access_compat:error] [pid 30067]
 [client 37.196.46.254:58989] AH01797: client denied by server
 configuration: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

See the 'Access control' section of

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/upgrading.html

perhaps

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing a subscriber's E-Mail address

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Aug 02, 2015 at 01:15:57PM -0400, Robert Heller wrote:
 Is it true that the quickest way for a list admin to change a subscriber's 
 E-Mail address is to do a 'mass removal' then a 'mass subscription?
 

If you have shell access,
https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/change_member_address.py is quite
nifty.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] View the Private mail lists from UI

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 07:53:46PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 I suppose there could be an authentication requiring the site password
 (for various reasons, it couldn't be a list admin password) on the admin
 and listinfo overview pages to see 'all' lists, but there is not such a
 feature.
 
 If you have sufficient access to the server, you could create your own
 web page to display the results of list_lists. See the FAQ at
 http://wiki.list.org/x/4030648 for info on doing these kinds of things.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-June/069783.html
(from the archives) is quite a nice approach, too.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] X-Spam-Score: 22.4 and still sent out to the list...

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 07:02:38AM -0700, James Nightly wrote:
 How can I configure mailman on Debian to reject messages with
 X-Spam-Score over 8? We are getting bombarded with spam, messages are
 tagged by Spamassasin, but for some reason Exim4 still sends these to
 Mailman.

Drop/Discard/Reject mails at SMTP time, before they hit Mailman?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] X-Spam-Score: 22.4 and still sent out to the list...

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 05:28:05PM +0100, Adam McGreggor wrote:
 I have a couple of ACLS (for check_message): the 'magic' I use is 
 
 condition = ${if {$spam_score_int}{60}{1}{0}}


http://www.exim.org/exim-html-current/doc/html/spec_html/ch-content_scanning_at_acl_time.html
is still the place I go to, if needed…

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Re: [Mailman-Users] X-Spam-Score: 22.4 and still sent out to the list...

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:43:20AM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
 On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Adam McGreggor
 adam-mail...@amyl.org.uk wrote:
 
  Drop/Discard/Reject mails at SMTP time, before they hit Mailman?
 
 Right, but it seems like James is saying Exim4 isn't doing that.

If the mails are being scored (which was mentioned), then I would be
inclined to deal with those before they're accepted -- let alone
before they get to Exim's handling (routing) for Mailman.

 I poked around the MM config for the chic...@python.org mailing list,
 but for the life of me couldn't find the setting where it holds
 messages with X-Spam-Score with spam or unsure values. (We use
 SpamBayes on mail.python.org.) I know it's there somewhere, but I can
 never find such nuggets.

I have a couple of ACLS (for check_message): the 'magic' I use is 

condition = ${if {$spam_score_int}{60}{1}{0}}

(A SpamAssassin score 6)

For drop/discard/reject, maybe see

https://lists.exim.org/lurker/message/20090116.101052.18c04deb.en.html


In my view (but your mailsystem, your rules), high scored Spam
shouldn't be accepted; so score it, and deal with it at SMTP time;
deal with the others once accepted.

-- 
War is Peace   Freedom is Slavery   Ignorance is Strength
1984
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Migrating a list to a new email address

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 02:38:01PM +0100, David Osborne wrote:
 On 15/05/15 05:32, Bill Christensen wrote:
 I long ago routed real users to an alternative signup, but the spam
 keeps coming, unrelenting, and are now anywhere between 1k and 10k per day.
 
 One of our lists was spammed in a similar way. The approach I took
 was to configure Apache to allow requests to /mailman/subscribe only
 when the referring page was on our server:

I've used mod_security/fail2ban in the past, both work as well as
might be expected.

[…]

 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
 and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
 message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete
 it.

Hum.


-- 
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 people live their lives vicariously through the rich and famous rather
 than attending to their own lives.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Cron command?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:16:48AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 On 04/21/2015 09:42 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
  This makes me wonder if it might be useful to have two files in the
  Mailman source:
  
  mailman/cron/crontab.in-system
  mailman/cron/crontab.in-user
  
  with -system including the 'user' column?
 
 Why? Our distribution works when installed per our docs. Downstream
 packages also tend to do the right thing. Problems tend to occur only
 when users of packages try to follow our documentation rather that the
 packager's.

Reading more of the thread, I think that's something that wasn't clear
to me; the mixed approach of remnants of a package install, then a
source install.

  Were the 'offical' source for Mailman be GitHub, there'd be a PR
  already, handling that.
 
 Just FYI and not addressing the issue of, PRs vs. branches vs. bzr merge
 proposals, Mailman 3 will probably use GitLabs as it's official
 repository. We're not there yet, but we recognize that Bazaar lost the war.

I think that will help drive community contributions, immensely. It's
one barrier removed.

 We can't use GitHub because GitHub uses proprietary software and as a
 GNU project, we get into issues with FSF if our complete stack is not
 open source.

*sigh* (and probably better not mentioning further; at least in this
(sub-)thread). 

-- 
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-- Duke of Edinburgh, on being offered the finest Italian wines by 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Cron command?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:32:48AM -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
 The bottom line is that it's best, as always, to install a component
 such as a crontab using the supplied tools rather trying to second-guess
 the tool set and copying files directly.

This makes me wonder if it might be useful to have two files in the
Mailman source:

mailman/cron/crontab.in-system
mailman/cron/crontab.in-user

with -system including the 'user' column?

Were the 'offical' source for Mailman be GitHub, there'd be a PR
already, handling that.

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 are guilty if they forget what it was to be young
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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 08:21:20AM -0700, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
 I'd say it was a much better example of not trimming content and
 making it presentable;

Along with making one's MUA put signatures at the bottom…

-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] What would your dream Mailman web interface look like?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 02:31:50AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
   The Justice Department has already said that the web is a place of
   public accommodation, and the ADA applies.  It is only a matter of
   time before they issue specific regulations.  So, in the near
   future, anyone producing publicly facing web sites will need to do
   this!
 
 No, they won't -- they can always shut down.  And I suspect that's
 exactly what will happen to most volunteer sites if they try to apply
 the ADA standards to them.  I can't be happy about that.  I live in
 Japan, and I assure you that public policies that equalize benefits by
 reducing the average suck -- especially for the less-well-off.

Apropos to that, the US DoJ doesn't really have much effect in
jurisdictions outside of the US. I do wish we wouldn't be so
parochial.

 Really, you accessibility advocates should be looking for
 opportunities to organize this kind of effort. 

+1

 A few real lists are running with Mailman 3 + Postorius +
 HyperKitty already, and I'm pretty sure there are a couple of demo
 sites.

At least one has been posted to one of the lists; possibly
-developers.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 10:22:24AM +1100, Peter Shute wrote:
 Do we really need anything more than the ability to bold and
 underline? 

Butterick (and I agree entirely with him here) is against underlining:

http://practicaltypography.com/underlining.html

 I'd be happy with some of the basic Structured Text
 formatting commands

Generally speaking, if I'm writing a long mail, I'll use Markdown. A
few readers will stylize it; but as observed, it looks fine as is.


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all the succession and repetition of massed humanity ... Those vile 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Help with regular expression filters

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 10:46:39AM -0800, Marino Pascal wrote:
 I have a filter to block the word test from Subject because some
 people won't receive list mail for a few hours and think it's broken
 so they post test

People who send test mails to lists I manage usually find themselves
moderated.

-- 
I am firm.  You are obstinate.  He is a pig-headed fool.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman equivalent of Yahoo Special Announcements?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 02:50:34AM +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm about to migrate a Yahoo Groups mailing list to mailman. Yahoo 
 Groups offers four delivery modes:
 
 - individual emails
 - daily digests
 - no mail
 - special announcements only
 
 and I have list members set to all four of them. The first three I can 
 easily deal with, but I'm not sure how to handle those set to the last.

From the Mailman side of thing, I imagine the 'easy' way of emulating
this is to have an announce only list, for all members (with bounce
processing etc disabled).

I think most Y! groups subscribers would use special annoucements
only for lists too noisy for them, but still want to hear about
important things.

 create a second list, mylist-announce, and subscribe everyone to that as 
 well as mylist. But that makes user management tricky, requires new 
 members to subscribe to both, unsubscribe from both, etc.

The sync_members script (and cron) might be useful here…


-- 
... they're not anarchists, just thugs who can't be bothered to put in the
 weekly commitment needed to be football hooligans.
-- Nick Barlow (describing violent May Day protestors)
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Re: [Mailman-Users] New install of mailman -- web links point to non-working https address

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:43:10AM -0500, James Riemermann wrote:

[ … ]

 The Defaults.py config includes the following line:
 DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
 rather than the folloowing:
 DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/cgi-bin/'
 
 which was recommended on one web tutorial I have been using for setup.
 
 I've tried configuring it both ways, changing the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN and
 restarting mailman, but either way the site works at
 http://www.mysite.com/mailman/listinfo/, but all the web links are to
 https://www.mysite.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/.
 
 I've also checked the config files mm_cfg.py and mailman.conf and don't
 see anything that is pointing to an https:// address.
 
 Any suggestions? I am a novice and appreciate your patience.

Try fix_url : see
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030616



-- 
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 respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 02:21:50PM +0200, Lucio Chiappetti wrote:
 I am one of the list administrator/moderator for several mailing
 lists, most of which aren't based on my machine (a few are in
 another continent), so I am not the site admin for them.

 In particular three of these are on the same machine, therefore my
 firefox is able to remember the password for one mailing list only
 (if I reply YES to the request to change the stored password, it
 remembers the one of the last mailing list visited).

You might be able to set all passwords to be the same -- within your
options page (e.g.,)

https://lists.example.com/mailman/options/foobaa/f...@example.org

 Is anybody aware of any firefox add-on which allows to remember
 multiple password for one hostname (e.g. based on the full url of
 the list admin page) ?

LastPass / 1password ? 


-- 
Some people, when confronted with a problem, think,
 'I know, I'll use regular expressions.'
 Now they have two problems.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscription flood

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 11:31:14AM -0500, Bill Christensen wrote:
 I've got a problem with one of my lists where it's being flooded
 with spurious subscription requests.

[…]

 About 12 hrs ago I switched it to require Admin approval.  500+
 subscription requests - mostly in batches of 5-10 from the same
 address - have come through since then.

[…]

 Question 2: Any other suggestions on how to handle this?

I use fail2ban against Mailman's logs (and sometimes rate-limiting
with iptables based on apache logs).


A

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Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC issues

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 10:18:33AM -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
 I hate to say it, but the days of the kinder, gentler internet when
 everyone played strictly by the RFCs are passing as operational control
 of internet services comes increasingly under the control of fewer,
 bigger players who can do as they wish.

+1.

-- 
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be assured by spectacular error.  
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Re: [Mailman-Users] building a new mailman server

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 09:32:50PM -0700, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
 On 3/26/2014 3:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 I'd be inclined to chose Postfix over Exim simply because Postfix is
 more popular, and new things (e.g. Mailman 3) tend to be implemented
 first for Postfix.
 
 FWIW, I found postfix to be generally easier to deal with than the
 others. And the config files don't look like line noise with
 comments :).

grep -v ^\# exim.conf is too much?

I don't know if it's down to popularity or not, but I notice far more
questions on this list concerning Postfix than I do exim.

(Exim user/admin for 10 years here)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman list questions about password and bounces-back for invalid emails

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:11:22AM -0600, Barry S. Finkel wrote:
 As for passwords, I disabled the monthly password reminders.
 Many of my lists were auto-subscribe lists (from HR), and the
 subscriber almost never needed his/her password.  I do not remember
 a case where a subscriber needed assistance with a list password.

+1. 

When setting up a new Mailman (2) instance, one of the things I do
is to remove that line from the crontab.

If users want a password reset, they can trigger it themselves. I've
never known anyone to think oh, I had a mail on the 1st, I'll check
that….

-- 
How can you make good ideas sound so bad?
I'm an engineer.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Removing admins using command line

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Feb 03, 2014 at 11:49:50AM -0600, Ben Malin wrote:
 Is there any way to remove an admin from a list from the command line
 similar to the remove_members command? I have to remove old users from
 150+ lists and am not looking forward to doing it one at a time from the
 web interface :-/

http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/change_admins.py (with a list_lists -b
loop)?

You'll probably want to change list passwords, too (so maybe a
list_owners run first?)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Alternative authentication mechanisms for Mailman

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 02:51:48PM +0100, Rainer Hoerbe wrote:
 Does anybody have a link to answers on questions like this:
 - How to do container-bases authentication for mailman? (e.g., use apache 
 authentication like mod_ssl or mod_auth_kerb)

If you're still after a reply, this mail I sent in 2009 (!) may be
useful to you --

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers@python.org/msg11368.html

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Protect seeing the list of mailing lists, using htaccess, or similar?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Jan 09, 2014 at 04:27:57PM +0100, Peter Heitzer wrote:
  On 1/7/2014 at 22:51, Mark London m...@psfc.mit.edu wrote: 
  Hi - I want to hide our list of mailing lists from the public, but still 
  make the list viewable to administrators.  Is this possible, i.e. 
  through an htaccess file, or perhaps some other method? Thanks.
 
 You could run a cronjob that generates an html page with the appropriate 
 links, e.g.
 a href=$mailmanbaseurl/listinfo/$listname$listname/a
 and store the file on the private archive directory of a special list where 
 only the list admins
 have access to.
 If an administrator enters the url 
 $mailmanbaseurl/mailman/private/$speciallist/$infopage 
 he or she can access the info page with all lists.
 
 This method is rather crude, but requires no change of mailman code. Access 
 control is via
 mailman's mechanism.

Ugh. In Apache, you can use Auth in a Location stanza:

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_auth_basic.html

I've not tried it with a LocationMatch regexp, but ^/mailman/... might
work too.

-- 
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 Thursday.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Reporting messages counts/size by user

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 09:12:00AM -0800, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
 This came up on another list I read- is there any relatively simple
 way to (a) report individual message activity to a user and (b)
 temporarily moderate a user when a count is exceeded?
 
 The first would send an email to the user when they've exceeded a
 threshold* in a given period.
 
 *messages to the list, total word count, quoted lines/total size, etc
 
 The second, triggered by the first's info, would set the mod bit for
 a user exceeding the limit and send an email that they've been
 auto-moderated.
 
 I've got some ideas, but not sure where to start with this. Maybe a
 handler in the incoming pipeline that does the counts and updates a
 database (use a pickle?), then a cron job to leaf through that
 database, send the warnings, and set moderation.

http://metricsgrimoire.github.io/MailingListStats/ is a tool I've used
in the past for reporting on lists as a whole. It does, however, do
the list. There may be bits you can use though, for users (or grep out
their lines in the output, maybe using `list_members` and a for…
loop).

For the stats on the word count/quoted/sizes, per user, you could
compute that on a regular base, although you may run into issues on
quoting (in particular, the quoting indicator: ^ is not always going
to be accurate.

TBH: it sounds as though you may be trying to solve a social problem,
not a technological one.

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What lawyers call intellectual property is
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman cannot deliver email to a particular domain

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 02:52:33PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 On 11/19/2013 02:24 PM, Hung Phan wrote:
  ... it seems that Mailman thinks canby.k12... domain is hosted at 
  10.30.xxx.xx, which is our internal DNS service. Is there a tool for us to 
  trace the email sending route? 

You could look at your routing table(s), perhaps? (but see below).

We suspect it is the DNS setting but need more info to determine where does it 
stop. Do we need an MX record, A record or something else in our DNS service 
so Mailman not try to connect to this DNS server and end up failing?

You could write a custom route in Exim, or a custom router/transport:
sometimes it's 'necessary' to define a route for a receiving MX,
particularly if the receiving MX is run by a clueless numpty (or,
indeed, someone who has a different interpretation of RFCs/Best
Practice etc than you).

 This has nothing to do with Mailman. It is strictly exim. Mailman is not
 doing any DNS lookups on anything except maybe localhost or whatever is
 set as SMTPHOST in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py.
 
 Mailman passes the message and list of recipient addresses to this SMTP
 server (exim) and it's up to that server to deliver the mail.
 
 You have MX records
 
 $ dig mx canby.k12.or.us
 ...
 ;; ANSWER SECTION:
 canby.k12.or.us.  86400   IN  MX  60 ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com.
 canby.k12.or.us.  86400   IN  MX  70 ASPMX2.GOOGLEMAIL.com.
 canby.k12.or.us.  86400   IN  MX  70 ASPMX3.GOOGLEMAIL.com.
 canby.k12.or.us.  86400   IN  MX  10 
 canby.k12.or.us.s9a1.psmtp.com.
 canby.k12.or.us.  86400   IN  MX  20 
 canby.k12.or.us.s9a2.psmtp.com.
 canby.k12.or.us.  86400   IN  MX  30 
 canby.k12.or.us.s9b1.psmtp.com.
 canby.k12.or.us.  86400   IN  MX  40 
 canby.k12.or.us.s9b2.psmtp.com.
 canby.k12.or.us.  86400   IN  MX  50 ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com.
 canby.k12.or.us.  86400   IN  MX  60 ALT1.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com.

Internally, though, you may get a different result -- it could be worth
checking resolv.conf(5), nsswitch.conf(5), and `host -t ns` (or equivalent
through dig(1)).

 You would probably have better luck taking this exim issue to an exim
 support resource.

As a general purpose mail tool, swaks
http://www.jetmore.org/john/code/swaks/ can often be quite useful.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] unable to start Mailman

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 11:43:55AM -0600, c cc wrote:
 I just moved our mailman to a new server, but I can't start mailman--I keep
 getting the following message:
 
 Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman
 
 I do have a list named mailman moved over, and have moved over about 30
 lists.
 
 Does anyone have any idea? Thanks!

I would imagine there to be a path issue; is the output of list_lists
what you expect it to be?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] unable to start Mailman

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 11:51:32AM -0600, c cc wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Adam McGreggor 
 adam-mail...@amyl.org.ukwrote:
  On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 11:43:55AM -0600, c cc wrote:
   I just moved our mailman to a new server, but I can't start mailman--I
  keep
   getting the following message:
  
   Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman
  
   I do have a list named mailman moved over, and have moved over about 30
   lists.
  
   Does anyone have any idea? Thanks!
 
  I would imagine there to be a path issue; is the output of list_lists
  what you expect it to be?
 
 Thanks! list_lists shows all my lists though. Any idea?

Permissions (`check_perms`)? Multiple instances of Mailman installed
(`which mailmanctl`, `locate mailmanctl`)?, and the site list not
being found by the one invocing the start.

How are you trying to start Mailman, and if it's say
/etc/init.d/mailman, does that use the correct path?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing list name

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 03:49:22PM -0400, William McQueen wrote:
 I've been asked to change a list I manage to a different name. How is that
 done?

https://gist.github.com/adamamyl/6909815 may be helpful to you; it's
what I use.
 
http://wiki.list.org/x/mYA9 may be of interest.

 If that can't be done, how would I transfer all of the subscribers to a
 newly created list, *without* asking these very, very busy folks to
 resubscribe.

newlist, list_members, add_members with respective options (or indeed,
respective steps via the web interface)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman has a mobile version too?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 08:05:08PM -0400, Richard Damon wrote:
 The mailman web pages are just web pages so they CAN be accessed while
 mobile. The command line tools can be accessed via a SSH app while
 mobile (much nicer to have a real keyboard though).

If you use an Android device, the Hacker's Keyboard [1] is quite dandy
for easy access to useful things like |, ~, TAB,  etc.

[1] 
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboardhl=en

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How can I know what I joined the mailing list ?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 05:49:07PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 On 09/09/2013 09:02 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
  There's a third-party plugin -- first hit for me on Google with
  Mailman ldap (and then one link to click)
  https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558093
 
 That's the MySQL MemberAdaptor. The LDAP MemberAdaptor is at
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558106.

That'll teach me to skim plugins…

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How can I know what I joined the mailing list ?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 05:39:37PM +0200, Mailman Admin wrote:
 You will at least for mailman-users get a monthly reminder email.

Unless you've switched those off (I do).

  And, Mailman and OpenLDAP can integrate？
 
 No, mailman uses its own authentication.

There's a third-party plugin -- first hit for me on Google with
Mailman ldap (and then one link to click)

https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558093

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Removing disclaimers/specific text in body

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Sep 02, 2013 at 04:42:21PM +0100, Tim Walter wrote:
 Recently the NHS email service has in its wisdom decided to add a couple of 
 disclaimers to every message that passess through its service and I can't 
 seem to get a way of removing them and was hoping for some advice.  I'd 
 rather not use third party add-ons if possible.  I have no control over the 
 addition of the disclaimers.  I have little control over the behaviour of my 
 members re tendency to top post, not snip irrelevant posts etc.  I merge the 
 posts into a fudforum forum to act as a public archive, and sometime posting 
 source.

postmas...@nhs.uk may be willing to whitelist your (lists) domain, to exclude 
them
from the disclaimers c.

Have you asked, at all?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] IP blacklisted by att

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 09:07:29AM -0400, Jason Fayre wrote:
 I've submitted the form that att tells you to in order to get your
 IP removed from the blacklist.  I then get a response back saying
 that the IP is not blacklisted.

Usually, there's a contact address to use here.

 However, I've got recent bounce
 messages saying we are.  If I try and telnet to att's mail servers
 from the mailman server, I get rejected because of a blacklisted Ip.
 The IP they are saying is blacklisted is the same one I submitted on
 there web form.
 Does anyone have any strategies in dealing with att?  I would
 love... god forbid... to actually talk to someone in their
 postmaster team about this.

Is that just on IPv4? In some cases, using IPv6 may work…

The short answer may be their MXes, their rules; finding someone
with a cluebat will often be the hardest part.

That does assume they've not outsourced the blacklisting side of
things, of course, when there's a further problem. It's probably worth
having a look at the reputation of the address block you're using;
https://grepular.com/projects/dnsblsearch.txt may be of interest/use.

 We host around 200 mailing lists for the National Federation of the
 Blind.  Some of the lists are fairly high traffic.

In a previous role, skipping email and using the telephone worked for
getting through to the right person/department.

Social media may work in your favo(u)r here… ask how you might get in
contact with postmaster@ via twitter/other channels. And perhaps use
your community's help, too.

(NANOG or MailOp may be better channels)

-- 
There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make
 it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other is to
 make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. 
-- Hoare
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mass Mail

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:33:31AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 I can also tell you that in the three cases just mentioned, it doesn't
 matter what your footer says.  All three have terms of service that
 allow them to decide what is spam based on any driteria they like.
 AFAIK, having an unsubscribe link in the footer isn't one of them.[1]
 Bulk mailers are strongly encouraged to register with them, and
 basically swear an oath not to spam.[2] 

Or, indeed, pay them…

 All of the registration
 procedures are different,

They used to be quite hidden, but I seem to be able to find them quite
easily, when I need to, these days.

 as are the procedures for getting out of the
 doghouse once you land there (and anybody mailing to 10,000 people or
 more on one service does sooner or later).

+1. Even 5000 seems to be the threshold these days, for unknown
netblocks.


-- 
It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be 
 – that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject 
 of prosecution.
-- Hartley Shawcross, then (1951) Attorney-General
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman running very slow

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 11:06:28AM -0700, Brad Knowles wrote:
 On Oct 24, 2012, at 9:52 AM, Lindsay Haisley fmouse-mail...@fmp.com wrote:
  Another very useful tool for analyzing mail issues is swaks.
 
 Now that's a tool I had not heard of before.  I'm assuming you mean the tool 
 at http://www.jetmore.org/john/code/swaks/?

swaks truly is a lovely tool.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 07:04:47AM +0100, Peter D Sparkes wrote:
 Hi
 
 I am currently using exim4 on Linux Debian and intend to install Mailman.
 
 Mailman Requirements::
 
  * Collect email addresses
  *   Send out newsletters
  * No subscriber to have access to the list
  * administrator to be able to add, delete email addresses.
  * Only administrator to be able to send newsletters/emails to list members.
 
 From the documentation I can't see how to configure Mailman to meet these 
 requirements.

Did you see the wiki?

http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030685


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives for Yahoo Groups like Web Features

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 11:16:22AM -0500, Jason Glazer wrote:
 I am looking for some suggestions on how to provide some Yahoo Group
 like web features for some existing mailing lists. I run a variety
 of mailings lists related to building energy performance on the
 onebuilding.org web site using mailman and hosted by dreamhost. 

I have no idea if you'll be able to do what you want with Dreamhost; I
don't know, and CBA'd looking, at what their provisions are.

I'll assume that you can do what you like, though.

 a) a way for designated members to upload files that others can
 download
 
 b) a way for designated members to add events to a shared calendar
 that anyone can see
 
 c) a way to conduct simple polls to gauge interest in topics
 
 d) a way for members to add links to a page to build up a library of
 good links
 
 e) a way to create a FAQ page
 
 f) perhaps a wiki-like way to create and edit pages in a freeform
 basis

For all of those, in one product, a couple of CMSes spring to mind,
particularly those with granular permission sets. I would look at
Drupal and Pyro. Drupal, additionally, has some modules to interact
with Mailman -- although you could use SQL, sync_members, and cron.

One thing to bear in mind with that sort of software is patching, and
keeping things up to date, along with testing your modules will work
across version migrations.

That might be overkill, in which case, if you can ignore/find an
additional service for c), and if your users are comfortable with
Wikis, a wiki may be a reasonable alternative. Some even have
permissions models -- Twiki springs to mind.


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 to the wives of servicemen serving in the Gulf. 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 04:31:41PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 That sounds good, but evidently, judging from the number of
 Debian/Ubuntu packge users who come to this list with mail delivery
 issues because they have ended up with some Postfix configuration that
 combines Mailman aliases and postfix_to_mailman.py in incompatible
 ways

They should be using Exim, and not the monstrosity that is
pkg-exim4...

( http://wiki.debian.org/DefaultMTA#Popcon_report_and_install_size )

(I have a deep dislike of Postfix, my solution to dealing with postfix
is `postconf -n  /root/postfix-perversions` and then `aptitude install
exim4-daemon-heavy`)

There does seem to be a disproportionate amount of postfix queries on
this list, yes.

 people don't look at the Debian documentation. 

But they don't. Part of this I think falls in to how apt handles
STDOUT during an installation. Imagine, if you will, installing thirty
or so packages, and each one, as it crops up, drops out a line or two;
they're not going to be seen, necessarily. Rather than ah, you should
read your apt.log, my approach would be to amalgamate all of those to
the end -- something I think Homebrew (and most Ruby Gems I've seen)
does fantastically well.

 They look at our
 installation manual or some incompatible web HowTo and wind up with a
 mess.
 
 I wish they all would read and comprehend the FAQ at
 http://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD.

I thought it was exim-users, or similar that would have in the
/listinfo/ page something to the effect of, use pkg-exim4-users if
you're a Debianista -- that seems to have gone now. I think Nigel's
on this list; am I mis-remembering?

 ONe of the reasons why installing from source is not exactly 
 straight-forward is that Debian has conventions for things like the user 
 accounts used for specific things.  If you're going to compile Mailman 
 from source on a Debian-based system, you'll need to either undermine a 
 lot of other things, or supply the appropriate configure flags so that 
 Mailman uses the accounts that Debian uses.

FWIW, I tend to use the Debian maintainers' versions of Exim, but have
a couple of patches that are manually applied (well, the deployment
system does them for me).

Packaged versions of software may not always be the most up-to date
version, but, for instance, IIRC, the XSS exploit was fixed-up fairly
quickly after announcement (the heads-up probably helped) -- certainly
more quickly than the time it would have taken for me to manually
apply the patch, 'properly' (rather than doing it from mutt...).

(If I wanted cutting edge, I'd use nightly/trunk from VCS... if it
wasn't bzr (never been able to get my head around it).)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 12:37:20PM -0700, Barry Warsaw wrote:
  - Probably the best way to get authoritative answers is to contact the Debian
Mailman packaging team:
 
pkg-mailman-hack...@lists.alioth.debian.org
 
I don't know whether anyone from that team is on this list, or
mailman-developers.

I have been on that spam-infested-thanks-Debian-for-open-for-all list
for some time, but I've still not pulled my finger out and joined the
maintainers' team for Mailman...

I believe at least one of the regular committers may be on one of the
Mailman-*@python.org lists, as well as pkg-mailman-hackers.

-- 
Bernard: I don't think Sir Humphrey understands economics, 
 Prime Minister; he did read Classics, you know.
Hacker: What about Sir Frank? He's head of the Treasury!
Bernard: Well I'm afraid he's at an even greater disadvantage in 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] which firewall ports does Mailman require to be opened?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:31:04PM -0400, David wrote:
 On an Ubuntu 10.04 server that does nothing but run Mailman (with Postfix)
 in a completely standard installation, which ports should be opened in
 iptables? Everything except Mailman and SSH is going to be denied.

I'd enable DNS, NTP, HTTP/HTTPS, SMTP, (S)Submission.

YMMV.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] finding moderators of a list

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 02:22:25PM -0500, Hone, Don wrote:
 Is there a way as list owner or as system admin, to sort a mailman
 membership list based on whether someone's moderation flag is set, or
 perhaps export that list into a format that includes all of the
 various option columns that could then dump into Excel?  

moderators (per your Subject: line) != moderated bit.

For list-moderators, `list_owners -wm` may be useful. (pipe it through
tr(1), maybe)

To list those with moderated bits set,
http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_mod.py might be what you're after.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to show Human Name but not email address

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 07:52:58AM -0500, Gregory Beyer wrote:
 I would like for my users to be able, in the Web Admin interface, to be
 able to see the HUMAN name of subscribers, but not the actual email
 address.  For example, if I mass add addresses, in this format Bob
 Smithrobert.sm...@somemail.com   I would like Bob Smith to show, but
 not exposerobert.sm...@somemail.com

 Now, I know I can turn hidden off and on, but that is all or nothing.
 OFF =  no information about subscribers shows at all  ON=their email
 addresses are shown.  Of course, those are then easily harversted and
 expoited.  I don't want that, but my users want to be able to see who
 they are mailing with.

What's wrong with them using their MUAs for that? Not everyone on a
list has the inclination/confidence/whatever to mail, after all.

I suspect you'll need to add something yourself for this: most of my
lists have large percentages of just email addresses, which is
something you may need to factor in, should you do this; or add in a
plus n others.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Change of member address via web fails

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sat, Feb 04, 2012 at 12:11:24PM -0500, Rob McLear wrote:
 just amazing how many users won't even bother to click a
 confirmation link to finalize an address update!

Spam-trapping may, partially, be to blame.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of Sympa (from Majordomo)

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:05:20AM +0100, Mailman Admin wrote:
 On 2012-01-19 19:32, Geoff Mayes wrote:
  
  I hope a general question about Mailman's features and future
  direction (along with some Sympa comparisons) are appropriate for
  this list.
  
  The University of Oregon is migrating away from Majordomo. 

Hurrah! ;o)

  We
  decided on Sympa because Mailman sends passwords over email
 ... 
  Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in Mailman,
  clever hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's release?
  
 You can stop the cronjob used to email reminders.

+1

 With this you don't email them to the users, but they will still be
 saved in clear text in Mailman.

Another way could be to make the 'don't use a valuable password' text
more prominent, or enforce some password complexity test.

There is the LDAP extension, YMMV.

  I've written a number of Django apps using my own LDAP module, so I
  was also wondering if folks think now is a mature-enough time to
  perhaps grab Mailman 3, its Django front-end, and hack together what
  I'm after?
  A final, random question: Mailman 3 is still in alpha, but is it
  stable given that it's almost been in alpha for 4 years?

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/2011-September/000164.html
seems to be the latest update. IIRC, Barry's not on -users, but does
post on -developers.

(There was an update, but I can't quickly find it)

I could be wrong on that, though/


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Re: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 05:42:52PM +, Bruce Harrison wrote:
 I don't think the headers show who the moderator would be.  

Message-ID, perhaps?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] identifying moderator that approved a post

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 05:03:57PM +, Bruce Harrison wrote:
 Is there any way to identify which moderator approved a post.
 I've looked thru the /logs files and didn't see anything.

Check your web-server logs for the IP address, and work from there? 

Or if by email, look at headers?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] contact email incorrect

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 12:42:18PM -0600, Eric Hansen wrote:
 Installed mailman and have confirmed that everything works fine…except the
 “If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
 mail...@example.com.” doesn’t send an email that I can find anywhere on the
 server or in my accounts…any thoughts on how to fix this?  

Check your logs: there may be a delivery attempt to the 'mailman'
list, which I'd guess has no members, and may have posting
restrictions in effect.

Subscribe yourself to the mailman (site-)list, check the sender
filters, and try again?

(If you're using a competent MTA (^___^), 

'exim -D -bt mail...@example.com', 

may be useful.)

I'm presuming here that you've obfuscated your domain, and aren't from
the IANA.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Missing archives and deleting archive messages.

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 01:47:43PM -0800, JRC Groups wrote:
 Hello, everyone.
 
 I am experiencing two problems with my Mailman lists and wanted to ask if
 any of you know the solutions.
 
 Question 1:
 
 Two (2) out of the five lists I created on my Mac OS X server are not
 displaying their archives. I get as far as the default Mailman subscription
 page for these two lists but once I click on the link on top of the page
 that should go to the list's archives I get a blank browser page stating
 Safari can't find the server (I'm on a Mac). On the next line it states
 the following:
 
 Safari can't open the page http://domain.com/mailman/private/listname/;
 because Safari can't find the server domain.com.

Check DNS?

adam@hokey:~$ host -t ns domain.com
domain.com name server ns3.dotsterhost.com.
domain.com name server ns2.dotsterhost.com.
domain.com name server ns1.dotsterhost.com.

adam@hokey:~$ seq 1 3 | while read S; do host domain.com \
ns$S.dotsterhost.com; done # slight formating jig for clarity

Using domain server:
Name: ns1.dotsterhost.com
Address: 72.5.54.12#53
Aliases: 
domain.com has address 66.150.120.145
domain.com mail is handled by 10 sentry.domainbank.com.

Using domain server:
Name: ns2.dotsterhost.com
Address: 72.5.54.13#53
Aliases: 
domain.com has address 66.150.120.145
domain.com mail is handled by 10 sentry.domainbank.com.

Using domain server:
Name: ns3.dotsterhost.com
Address: 64.94.31.85#53
Aliases: 
domain.com has address 66.150.120.145
domain.com mail is handled by 10 sentry.domainbank.com.

Those nameservers point to the same address.

It would appear that the HTTPD config is also returning the wrong status codes;
404 != 301.

(q.v. https://github.com/Exim/exim/wiki/Dont-Obfuscate c)

 Just to make this clear, I don't believe it can't find the server since this
 works for the other three (3) lists I have on the server. Only two seem to
 be displaying this behavior.

Maybe check the host_name is the same for all lists?

 On a few of the lists I have created I have messages in their archives that
 were sent just as test messages to ensure the lists were working right. I
 don't want to have these messages as part of the lists' archives once I have
 subscribers signing up for the lists. How can I (1) delete the entire
 archive for a list and (2) delete only specific messages ?

This is in the FAQ. http://wiki.list.org/x/2YA9


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a new Mailman host

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 10:39:30AM -, Malcolm Austen wrote:
 I have several lists hosted (just the lists, nothing extra) by Mythic  
 Beasts (based in Cambridge, UK) - see down at the bottom of:
URL:http://www.mythic-beasts.com/other.html

 Apart from the matter of them still running MailMan 2.1.9 I have nothing  
 by praise for them.

Hum. Odd

version 2.0.12, on
http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/mythic-users

(I co-lo a couple of boxes with them.)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Server request addresses not active

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 12:39:41PM -0500, Carlos Palomino wrote:
 I'm new to mailman and have recently installed the software on my CenOS 
 server.
 
 All is working quite well, accept for the specified join  leave dedicated 
 addresses for members to subscribe/unsubscribe.
 
 When sending to ios-j...@a11y.us, the message is rejected, as a mailbox 
 doesn't exist type of error.
 Same goes for ios-subscr...@a11y.us.

Configuring your MTA?

(add a second (and others, should you so wish) nameserver, too)

 Any ideas on what I should explain to my I.T rep to review, so these requests 
 can work?

Did you get to step 6 of the installation instructions?

http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/doc/mailman-install.txt

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to turn off plain text passwords?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 07:52:08AM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
 Its the first of the month, and I'm receiving my passwords from Mailman 
 servers.

Happy Mailman Day!

(I disable Mailman-day crontab entries.)

 I don't want my passwords stored in the plain text, and I don't want
 them stored with reversible encryption.

Install Mailman 3.

Mark may have a more useful suggestion of what to patch, and there
could well be something in the archives about this.

 How do I turn off this  security hole (feature?).

The standard listinfo text warns:

You may enter a privacy password below. This provides only mild
security, but should prevent others from messing with your
subscription. Do not use a valuable password as it will
occasionally be emailed back to you in cleartext.

You could, perhaps, edit the listinfo blurb, to give that greater
prominence?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman lists are set up but posts to the lists arenot arriving

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:45:39AM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
 On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:20, jhock jh...@iinet.net.au wrote:
  On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 22:07 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
   jhock wrote:
   Did you read the note at the beginning of section 6.2 which says in
   part The updated document is here:
   http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and is recommended over the
   information in the subsections below if you are using Exim 4.
 
 You will need some Debian-centric instructions to achieve this.

Or, of course, you could try and revert to a more normal (saner) 
exim deployment, viz the monolithic singular configuration file, which
is as trivial as crafting an Exim config file, but ensuring it's named
exim4.conf, and with the hard-coded permissions pkg-exim4 expects.

(ugh. pkg-exim4)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem in post action on admindb forms for multi-domain mailman

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 04:41:18PM +0100, Martin Brampton wrote:
 I'm running Mailman 2.1.13 from the Debian Squeeze repositories (on  
 Debian Squeeze) to provide mailing lists across several domains.  The  
 domains that are not the primary mailing list domain have 301 redirects  
 of URLs such as .../listinfo/ or .../admin/ to the primary 
 domain.

Why not just ServerAlias them?

 Is there something wrong with my setup?  Is there a way to resolve this  
 problem?

Or (Reverse)ProxyPass them -- both assuming you're using Apache as
your httpd.

If that's undesirable, VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW may be useful.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 04:40:28PM +0530, dhruv kumar wrote:
 hello,
 I have a windows xp machine. the wiki discusses about windows 2000.

Try it out, and report back with your experiences?

 any another idea?

VirtualBox / VMWare?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] User Management

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 04:01:18PM -0300, Douglas D. J. de Macedo wrote:
 My problem is that I have more than 50 lists and every time time that one of
 the users go out of the company I have to go one per one list removing this
 user.

remove_members ?

(-a is useful)

 And the other way, when a new person get a job here I have to sign
 their email list per list ..

list_lists | while read L; do add_members -r /path/to/file ${L}; done

might do the trick.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] exim says 'unrouteable' on new list [SOLVED]

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Aug 08, 2011 at 09:44:41AM +0100, Rich Lott wrote:
 Thanks for patient explanations.

That'll be Mark ;o)

 I've changed my config to the Mailman Official Way, because it seems  
 slightly cleaner than Debian's  (only have to edit exim config to add a  
 new sub domain). Seems to be working...

Debian Exim (pkg-exim4), can, almost, be made to work like Proper Exim
should, with a monolithic exim4.conf file, and a few tweaks to
/etc/{default,init.d}/exim4.

I can't remember where my patches are, but they're not in The Usual
Place, annoyingly. 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] exim says 'unrouteable' on new list

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sat, Aug 06, 2011 at 11:57:22PM +0100, Rich Lott wrote:
 Hi

 I have exim4 and mailman running successfully on my server. I have a  
 working list that runs at somelistn...@artfulrobot.com and a working web  
 admin iface. All good.

 I looked at the output from this command:
 $ exim4 -d -bt commun...@maybe.artfulrobot.com

 to see why it was failing. Output below.

 Basically, it seems that mm has not registered  
 commun...@maybe.artfulrobot.com in data/virtual-mailman.

Your debug message states:

 file lookup required for commun...@maybe.artfulrobot.com
   in /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
 lookup failed

Is that correct? (i.e., does /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman...)
exist?

 I've read lots of postings, docs etc. but gotten nowhere. I've tried  
 fiddling with /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py, adding things like:

For Exim and Mailman, I'd use the canonical document:

http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html

and that alone.

 MTA=None (and MTA='None')

 add_virtualhost('maybe.artfulrobot.com','maybe.artfulrobot.com' )

 POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'artfulrobot.com',  
 'maybe.artfulrobot.com']

I'd not bother with that sort of thing. Just use the tried-and-tested 

http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html

 Each change I've restarted MM. Tried and got the unrouteable error again.

If you're fiddling with Exim that probably needs HUPing.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem with exim

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 07:29:50AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Lorenzo Coronati wrote:
 
 what I understand is that exim (which is configured to manage the email 
 addresses stored in a mysql database) tries to expand the mailing list 
 looking for subscribers via sql, instead of letting mailman to do this
 am I right?
 and then, what do I have to do to fix this?
 
 
 See http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html for the recommended way
 to configure Exim with Mailman.

And make sure your routers are ordered the way you wish them to have
precedence (read from the top)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] upgrade question

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 09:53:47PM -0700, Maria Mckinley wrote:
 However, mailman is missing some stuff that happened while I was  
 upgrading the new machine, so I must be rsyncing the wrong directory. I  
 thought it should be /var/lib/mailman/, but I think this must not be the  
 directory that mailman is using anymore. This is on a debian squeeze  
 machine.

This may have been more suitable for the pkg-mailman-hackers list, but
that aside --

 /etc/mailman
and
 /usr/lib/mailman
and
 /etc/{init.d,default}

also have bits and pieces, along with, probably, things in your MTA's
config, and perhaps anti-spam software directory, and maybe any other
MDAs / LDAs.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] upgrade question

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 07:40:44AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 You could try 'locate mailman'.

And/or 'dpkg -L mailman'

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Odd Subscriptions

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:53:39AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 bin/withlist -a -r add_banned -- '^.*[@.]apot(mail)?\.com$'

Thanks for the heads-up. 

Only hit one of the five sets of lists I maintain, but 
still killed off.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] sharing userbase with WordPress

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 06:43:12AM +0200, Luigi Rosa wrote:
 Is there a way to share the userbase of Mailman with WordPress?

In-part, I'd suggest...

 What I need is that the master database is Mailman and I would like to
 replicate (also via script) the accounts and passwords to WordPress.

WordPress (WP) users have email addresses. It's relatively trivial to
extract those addresses, and, say, feed them through to
sync_members(8)...

Pulling in the name (if that's your fancy) could also be done quite
easily.

As for passwords, I'd not do this, at all; particularly if you've not
zapped the password-reminders crontab. 

You'd also, presumably need to unsalt the password-hash stored in WP.

I'd just generate a random password for Mailman. It's trivial
(although, quite how so many failo…) to receive a password reminder,
after all.

(Maybe add in a 'Mailman password' field into the WP users' table, and
in the user's settings pages, and feed that to Mailman?)

 Is it possible?

I'd say:
email addresses: yes
names: yes
passwords: no, and you shouldn't.

How's that?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Installing latest Mailman updates via automaticbash script file possible?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 08:19:46AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 René Linke wrote:
 In one of a short news of the upcoming Ubuntu 11.04 is the latest
 Mailman version available then. My provider don't accept any Kernel
 upgrades.
 
 This is really a Debian/Ubuntu question and not a mailman question, but
 how about
 
 apt-get update mailman

Or find a PPA (there are a couple out there), and whack the necessary
lines in sources.list(5), then

apt-get update  apt-get (upgrade|install) mailman

 -- you may need to check pinning (see 'man apt_preferences')

Those with a more cavalier streak may find grabbing the .deb for a
newer (base) version and thence 'dpkg -i''ing the .deb works, ( a
drawback is you won't necessarily get security updates), or indeed,
looking in backports.

YMMV.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Run mailman web interface as another user

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 12:46:49PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 If you install Mailman from source, you can set the expected group with
 the --with-cgi-gid= option to configure. Debian/Ubuntu may or may not
 provide a package specific way to do this for their Mailman package.

apt-get source mailman (but do read the apt-get(8) manpage); I think
both recent XSS fixes are now in the packaged version.

 If your hosts all have their own Mailman installation or at least
 their own set of cgi-bin wrappers, you should be able to get the
 wrappers to accept whatever group you want, but I don't know
 specifically how this would be done in the Debian/Ubuntu package.

Defining the group and building should work, ISTR.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives Link

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 08:50:47PM -0400, Dennis Putnam wrote:
 For reasons unknown I am suddenly not at to access list archives (as
 admin). I ran check_perms but it found no problems and there is nothing
 in the logs. 

Which logs?

 Can someone suggest a course of action to debug this? TIA.

curl -I http://lists.example.org/mailman/private/foo

curl -I http://lists.example.org/pipermail/baa/ 

and look at the HTTP status codes perhaps (whilst tailing the
webserver's {access,error}log ?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] AV/AS on lists

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:02:48PM +, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
 Odhiambo Washington wrote:
 On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 20:40, Andrew Hodgson 
 and...@hodgsonfamily.orgwrote:
  Hi,
  What is the best practise for doing AV/AS on lists?  I do strip out 
  attachments which works well enough, but we are getting some spam 
  messages on the list which point people at dodgy sites etc., usually 
  through subscribed addresses which have been hijacked.

Have you tried user-education, and then setting compromized users to 
(a) moderated,
(b) removed from list, 
(c) banned from all of your lists?

I know of a couple of organizations that, having been frustrated with
the inaction of various abuse@ and postmaster@ complaints have just
added several well known domains to their ban lists -- and
incorporated the ban list in the new list-creation process.

If there's a batch of senders, it could be worth quarantineing their
mails, and just testing those for nasties, rather than anything else;
or indeed, all mail from a specific domain/MX to your lists.

(I'd do that with senders in a file, and checking that with an Exim ACL.)

  I am worried that by installing SpamAssassin on the list that it will 
  reject good mail, and be yet another place to look for issues.
 
 You must find a way to use the MTA to do it.

Not necessarily. Whilst it is preferable to tackle nasties, as early
as possible, it may sometimes be expedient to defer tests for some
cases, to allow, for example, untrusted-user settings to be
considered; of course, with a competent MTA, these things ^could^ be
done early on, too.

 Oh yes I realise that I will need to do the spam management in the
 MTA, I just wondered whether anyone had specific suggestions on the
 best parameters for use with SpamAssassin etc for a list setup?

Your mail-system, your rules.

My rules are probably entirely unsuitable for a lot of people; I use a
mixture of:

DNS Blacklists
Sender verification
Malware detection
Filters / Manual whitelists/blacklists

before handling over to SpamAssassin (SA) -- my global policy is to
mainly trust SA, and I discard all mails with a given SpamAssassin
score, worked out from a variety of tests, most of which are in the
standard distribution.

Others may use greylisting; I'm not a fan.

With Mailman mails, I don't use Bayesian filtering, although am aware
some folks do.

I add headers to mails that get through, which Mailman can interpret,
and act accordingly with.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Explicit destination causes implicitdestination bounce

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:26:29PM -0600, Larry Stone wrote:
 The lesson in this is that SMTP, like almost all  
 computer command sets, is very intolerant of even the slightest mistake.  
 It does exactly what you tell it to do and has no idea what you meant 
 when you get it wrong. Using Telnet to test SMTP has its uses (I do it to 
 make sure the anti-spam controls on the commands works since that's hard 
 to do by other means) but unless you are prepared to type everything in 
 painful detail, expect weird results. 

I think this is the part where I mention 'swaks(1)':

http://www.jetmore.org/john/code/swaks/

a rather awesome little tool that should be in every mail-admin's
toolkit.

Last time I looked, it was packaged for Debian, FreeBSD, and CentOS,
without too many packager-introduced-foibles.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman to manage a voting process?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 11:15:57AM +, Peter Hitchmough (Twokan) wrote:
 I am investigating approaches to manage a lightweight process to approve  
 documents for a shortlist. This process takes place several times a year  
 and has 20-30 interested parties and 1 administrator.

 A mailing list, particularly managed via Mailman, appeals to me. I have  
 glanced briefly at the Vote-MM add-in.

I've no knowledge of that.

 Mailing lists are often used to review things for publication but I  
 would like to automate the tracking. features I want to implement 
 include:

 - announcement of start, end of voting periods

Do-able via sending an email, perhaps with an iCal or similar
attachment, for people to add to their calendars?

 - announcement of new items for consideration

I presume, this will need some manual input, and not, say diff two
directories (previous / current), and mail that output out via cron,
or similar...

 - collecting Yes and No votes (possibly More Info Please votes)

Not too sure about this. I imagine that to collate this, some
discipline of list-members would be needed. TBH, I'd provide a link to
a script/google-(doc|form) for that. Validating entitlement to vote
could be done via GPG, or similar, I'd imagine. A lot depends on your
user-base.

 - announcing final result, including list of items approved

As above. Were I going with a script, it shouldn't be too difficult to
make the script do a SQL COUNT (assuming a SQL backend), for each
decision choice, and throw that out to an email.

Of course, if this is something that happens often (and 'several times
a year' is up to intepretation), it may be worth looking at automating
these stages. YMMV.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber Counts - daily report

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 03:11:33PM -0500, Drew Tenenholz wrote:

 In our majordomo (yikes!) system, someone created some PERL and a

*cough*


http://perldoc.perl.org/perlfaq1.html#What%27s-the-difference-between-%22perl%22-and-%22Perl%22%3f

 cron to send a daily message to the list admins (and other interested
 parties) about the number of subscribers to individual lists and a
 de-duped total number of subscribers with columns for yesterday's
 total, today's total, difference, %change, and list name.  Is anyone
 doing something similar in Mailman/Python?  Are you willing to share
 your code?

My cobbled together ones (and some other Mailman bits, I've still not
put all my bin-dirs in one place...) are at

http://code.amyl.org.uk/adam/mailman-scripts/debian/
(warning, that's my own box, so waits until others are fixed,
usually; if unavailable, try again a bit later on.)

probably most useful (if, indeed, useful at all) are:
list-members-count
list-stats
mailman-subs-count
mlist-stats

They do the jobs I wrote them for ;)

Each does something slightly different, and there are almost certainly
more elegant ways to do things. Most should just need changes to the
variables to Just Work For You.

Patches welcome...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Search tool for Mailman Archives

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 07:49:47AM -0500, Paul Tomblin wrote:
 I looked at a few archive searchers, but it appears they all
 either make the list archives public, or you can do a htaccess thing
 which will require you to change the password every time somebody
 leaves the list and tell all the current members the new password,
 etc.

One could, always, re-implement the login system c, but there's still
the scope that authentication methods probably won't prevent
(authorized) people from taking copies of the data, for example.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trying again from the start -- Re: Help in understandingMailmansetup

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 03:21:53PM -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
 On 12/06/2010 02:59 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 What exact Mailman related directives do you have in this VirtualHost
 block?


 VirtualHost *:80
ServerName mailman

change that to a FQDN (mailman.example.org).

 ScriptAlias mailman.htt-consult.com/mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/

Change that to
ScriptAlias /mailman/   /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/

 Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
 AllowOverride None
 Options ExecCGI
 Order allow,deny
 Allow from all
 /Directory

If you're not going to ScriptAlias (admin,admindb,confirm,create...)
c, keep that, if you will ScriptAlias each, it's possibly superflous.

 Alias mailman.htt-consult.com/pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/

Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/

 Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public
 Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks

Do you need Multiviews?

 AllowOverride None
 Order allow,deny
 Allow from all
 AddDefaultCharset Off
 /Directory

ErrorLog  /var/hda/web-apps/mailman/logs/error_log
   CustomLog /var/hda/web-apps/mailman/logs/access_log combined  
 /VirtualHost


apachectl configtest may be your friend, here, too

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trying again from the start -- Re: Help inunderstandingMailmansetup

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 04:31:27PM -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
 [Mon Dec 06 16:18:32 2010] [error] [client 208.83.67.149] IOError: [Errno 13] 
 Permission denied: '/var/log/mailman/error'

Is probably what I'd fix first, from that Trackback.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] admin help

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 11:15:04PM -0500, Christian Lefler wrote:
 I just started a new mailing list and its great.  I would like to know how
 to keep subscribers from getting to any screen 

by screen I'm assuming that you mean web page.

 where they can manage their settings or post to the list.  

That's entirely down to your HTTPD configuration -- and how you wish
to control access. 

And, perhaps more important to end-user, how you will provide
mechanisms for unsubscriptions.

 Basically I want to manage the list entirely
 myself where subscribers simply receive emails and cannot respond.

Search for 'announce' on http://wiki.list.org

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Re: [Mailman-Users] admin help

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Dec 03, 2010 at 11:30:56AM -0500, Gary Mort wrote:
 I'd say it should also be fairly important to him as well considering
 current spam legislation and the penalties associated with not providing an
 opt out mechanism.

Your Jurisdiction May Vary.

(YJMV)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Phrase count

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 10:43:37AM -0500, David Doria wrote:
 Is it possible to download the entire archive as one file?
 I see that they are broken down into months:
 http://www.vtk.org/pipermail/vtkusers/

http://lists.example.org/mailman/private/example-list.mbox/example-list.mbox, 
perhaps?

(works for me).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Phrase count

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 04:02:51PM +, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
 I don't believe you should be able to directly download the mbox files like 
 that.

Why ever not? What's so different about grabbing one mbox at once,
rather than however many iterations/scraping?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Approved message is discarded

[Adam McGreggor]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 01:12:18PM +0100, Andre van Kan wrote:
  - cluster 1: runs the MTA (Postfix) and MM
  - cluster 2: runs Horde and the MM-webinterface
  - cluster 3: runs Cyrus-imapd
 
 Cluster 1 and 2 share - via NFS - the MM-lists etc. I found out however
 that data/heldms* was only available on cluster 1. 
 From the moment that I shared this directory between cluster 1 and 2 the
 approved messages were visible with the admin webinterface and approving
 resulted in a transfer of the messages to cluster2:/var/spool/mailman/in
 and are waiting there for the things to come. 
 So the problem is partly solved, albeit that the messages still are not
 delivered, supposedly because cluster 1 should be able to transfer the
 messages to cluster 3, the IMAP-server (?). 

Why on earth are you adding in IMAP at this stage? Mailman is designed
to deliver via a pipe, to the scripts. I believe that's the case, even
with Postfix.

 So I want to share the directory cluster2:/var/spool/mailman/in with
 cluster 1 since this cluster is configured to send the messages to the
 IMAP-server. 

I suspect that that's a completely wrong approach.

 Does this sound reasonable to you, or should cluster 2 itself better be

's/2/1/'

 configured to send the approved messages to the IMAP-server directly?

's/to the IMAP-server//'

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Moving / upgrading Mailman from Solaris to Linux

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 01:23:17PM -0700, Ivan Fetch wrote:
 At this point, even though I prefer to use packages when possible, I am 
 leaning toward compiling Mailman from source because of:
 1. Red Hat packages are typically more ancient
 2. Ubuntu packages seem to include non-standard patches to Mailman (still 
 sorting this out)

From what I remember, the Mailman packages for both Debian and Ubuntu
are pretty much the same.

In such a case, you're reliant on the maintainer updating fixes
promptly (or very rarely, the security team), along with necessary
modifications to conform with Debian policy.

Once one gets around those, one has something that's usable, and not
too difficult to operate, but I've not done a source -- source
comparison for a while.

I'm lazy, and just use the versions in the repos, but am aware a
couple of folks on list either build their own PPAs or use others.

 Additionally, has anyone run into problems with Python packages provided by 
 Red Hat and Ubuntu?

Not with Ubuntu. I've not used Red Hat on my own boxes for several
years, now, mind.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Frequent use of clone_member

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 07:31:26PM -0600, Ivan Fetch wrote:
 Ivan Fetch writes:
 
   One possibility we're exploring, is to change a student's mailing
   list subscriptions, when they change their forwarding address. We
   would iterate through these address changes and run clone_member,
   like:
   
   Clone_member --remove --admin  o...@our.domain n...@outside.domain
 
 I can't really comment on the burden on the host, but ISTM that this
 would be a substantial burden on the students.  They would have to
 remember which account is their real account to make any changes, or
 to post.  This might be non-trivial for students with multiple
 mailboxes.

 Students are changing their forward, and we would be trying to
 help them keep mailing list subscriptions pointed to that new
 forwarding address. 

Is this not looking for a technical solution to a social one?

(It was the case that both times I was at college (Federal
Universities), that my college/university provided address was defined
as a contact address, and it was *my* responsibility to ensure I
picked up mails sent to that address).

 We are leaning more toward tracking when a forwarding address
 changes, and sending a helpful email about mailing list memberships
 which may need to be changed - but not actually changing anything.

How do you manage forwarding, currently? If your email setup uses a
database, how about adding 

(for example)
(a) a timestamp, 
(b) a change-log (the previous value),
(c) current value

to that, and using the timestamp to calculate if anything needs to be
done (and to whom), and then using the values of (b) and (c), to
update your lists? (presumably, using something like find_member, and
then clone_member or non_members [1])

[1] http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/non_members

 How about having the forwarding address setup update
 accept_these_nonmembers, instead?

 IF we start filling accept_these_nonmembers, this separate source of 
 addresses will need to be cleaned out - this is likely a larger overhead / 
 bucket of hurt, than we want to create.

Or you can purge the old addresses, too. Or maybe even go down the
sibling list approach, and have

foo-acadae...@lists.example.edu
foo-forward...@lists.example.edu

where official (institution provided) addresses are always
subscribed, and leave -forwarding to be built/manipulated by scripts?

(and foo-forwarding to obviously receive foo-acadaemia mails).

 Also, what are you going to do about the old forwarding address?  It
 seems likely that in many cases students will want to do things like
 receive on their cellphone account but sometimes post from their home
 ISP, etc.  Then they change back, creating a real muddle.  OTOH,
 allowing dead or dormant accounts to post is a potential issue.

If there's a time-stamp (or flag, or whatever) included, that's
something that could be checked against, and appropriate action (not)
taken.


 This is one of the reasons we have begun thinking about sending an
 informative email, instead of changing addresses. As soon as we start
 taking it apon ourselves to helpfully change addresses, we will break
 things for subscribers who have other addresses (which happen to be an
 old forward) subscribed for a reason.

Tricky business. Informative mails will presumably need to include
find_member output, or something like that. That said, it pushes the
responsibilites over to the user: surely a good thing (assuming they
get the mail, and it's not helpfully spam-classified by their
(web)mail provider.


 We will still need to do mas-address changes for faculty and staff, who will 
 be moving to MS Exchange - in some cases, they choose to begin using a 
 different form of their email address. I would still be curious to hear from 
 anyone who has input on running clone_member to change 200-300 addresses, as 
 part of a nightly cron job.

find_member accepts regexps. 

There are a few examples of how to change this sort of thing. You
might find my quick-and-dirty googlemail-gmail script [2] something
to work from. You might find creagting that request as a new thread
might garner more responses.

[2] http://blog.amyl.org.uk/2010/06/mailman-googlemail-to-gmail/ (step
2 could trivially be done progmatically)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] API version 1012-module hangul 1011 runtime error

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 10:46:15AM -0400, Williams, Theona wrote:
 IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/u004/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
 
 How do I go about resolving this problem?

The clue might be in there (IOError...). What are the permissions on that
file/directory. 

Maybe look at bin/check_perms (I don't think I've seen a fix to the
Debian '/var/lib/mailman' symlink issue (see this list's archive) committed)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.14 new features

[Adam McGreggor]

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 03:46:31PM +0200, Alessandro Bruchi wrote:
 Do you know when mailman 2.1.14 will be included as package in some debian 
 distribution?

The XSS patch, per 2010-September's announcement, seems to now be in
Debian's repositories:


http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-mailman-hackers/2010-October/003355.html


http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-mailman-hackers/2010-October/003360.html
(et. seq.)

and


http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-mailman-hackers/2010-October/003369.html

It appears that 'official' Mailman packages for lenny are a wee bit
behind upstream. 

I believe others on this list use the Umbungo packages on lenny
(Debian 5), without too many difficulties. YMMV.

(I don't really have the time to take on debian package maint, at the
moment.)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] one line command to change generic_nonmember_action

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 10:46:20AM +0100, Steff Watkins wrote:
   bin/config_list -o /usr/tmp/somelist-conf.txt SomeList
 Which dumps the config into a file /usr/tmp/somelist-conf.txt
 
 Then save the text file and read the configuration BACK to the list:
   bin/config_list -i /usr/tmp/somelist-conf.txt SomeList
 
 Of course there's probably a simpler/better way of doing this but it
 should work.

I've been quite happy using:

http://code.amyl.org.uk/adam/mailman-scripts/debian/editlistconfig

(patches welcome, should anyone think it necessary)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] number of subscribers

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 01:35:42PM -0700, Con Wieland wrote:
 Does anybody already have a script to get the total number of  
 subscribers across all the lists on a system?

something like:

list_lists -b | while read L; do echo List is ${L}; list_members ${L} | wc -l 
; done

perhaps?

If you're after something more complicated, that handles archives and
bits, 

http://hendricks.amyl.org.uk/~adam/tmp/list-stats

may be of interest

(one day I'll get around to fixing up my repo's browsey thing)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to block / discard automatically a specificemail from email ID

[Adam McGreggor]

On Tue, Aug 03, 2010 at 04:20:04PM -0600, LuKreme wrote:
 On 3-Aug-2010, at 14:17, Balaji Ramanathan wrote:
  
  Unfortunately, yes I am running 2.0.5 version.
  
  Upgrading is not under my control.

 Mailman 2.0.5 is pushing ten years old. If your host is unwilling or
 unable to update then find another host. If this is a corporate
 machine where the IT department is unable or unwilling to update, then
 you probably need to complain to someone if you are expected to
 administer the lists.

Spot on for my views too. Don't be dealing with this antiquated
version. Really.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Test messages

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 12:12:52PM +0100, Steff Watkins wrote:
 One thought/idea I've had is to have a test list which has only my
 work email address, an offsite email address and maybe one or two of my
 colleagues (for verification purposes), lock it right down so that only
 the members can use it, add the Me too tag so that we'd receive any
 emails we sent to the list and use that to check that the mailman
 service is functional. 

That might be one way; although useful for those of us not on some
tuppence ha'penny shoe-string ISP who believe in limiting the amount
of mail transmissions (and where the punter may not know of those
limits).

Of course, MTA problems may also exist, which that approach wouldn't
examine (nor do I see mention of testing the web interfaces work).

*brainfart*
Perhaps a Mailman-admin's 'test suite' might be useful? And
presumably have the option to run (gah!) via the web-admin interface,
as well as the command line

 Does that sound a valid way of doing it, too much
 effort FWIW or missing the point as it wouldn't test a particular list
 just the mailman service?

using config_list on a troublesome list, a spot of sed/withlist, and
config_list on a new list, may be one way to transfer the list
settings over; possibly followed by remove_members -a and add_members;
all of that could be made into a two arguements clonelist script.

This doesn't, of course, help, if Mailman's not running -- never rule
out (or forget about) the obvious -- nor, say if there's a lack of
disk-space.

I can't remember what, if anything, was decided about test lists in
MM3. 

I'll be waiting for MM3, before I start fiddling with trending Mailman
in Nagios; for now, my last posts script/output does the job well
enough (and I am a lazy sysadmin) for me.

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