[Mailman-Users] Someone tried to unsubscribe me

[Michael Welch]

Received an unsubscribe confirmation notice that did not originate with me.

Curious as to how this could have happened. 

This Mailman 2.1.39 list is hosted by DreamHost, so I don't have access to its 
internal workings. 

Does this mean a breach in security?

 
>Mailing list removal confirmation notice for mailing list RE-wrenches
>
>We have received a request for the removal of your email address,
>"xxx...@.com" from the
>...@.org mailing list.  To confirm that you
>want to be removed from this mailing list, simply reply to this
>message, keeping the Subject: header intact.  Or visit this web page:

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Reply-to addresses

[Michael Welch]

Thanks Christian, Mark, & Stephen.

I guess this is a non-issue after all. 

I've noticed that all recent posts don't have poster's address in the 
Reply-To:, but is in the cc: field. I've made sure all members are set to 
No-dupes. 

It is a reply_goes_to_list = this list using Mailman 2.1.23. 


Mark Sapiro wrote at 03:36 PM 3/27/2022:
 
>On 3/27/22 12:02, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>Getting rid of the poster address in Reply-To requires patching the
>>code.  We are not going to change this in Mailman 2, for sure.  The
>>general sense of the developers is that it's a bad idea to completely
>>remove the poster's address, and they can work around with no-dupes,
>>so we probably will not change it in Mailman 3 either.
>
>
>We actually try to ensure that both reply and reply-all to a message with a 
>munged From: do the same thing as they would without From: munging. See 
>
> To this end if the lists reply_goes_to_list setting is This list or Explicit 
>Address The Poster's address is added to Cc:, and not to Reply-To:.
>
>So the bottom line here is if you have reply_goes_to_list set to This list and 
>the poster's address ends up in Reply-To:, either the poster's address is in 
>Reply-To: in the incoming mail and first_strip_reply_to is No, or more likely, 
>dreamhost's Mailman version is older than 2.1.19 and doesn't have this fix 
>.
>
>Note that 2.1.19 was released over 7 years ago.

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[Mailman-Users] Reply-to addresses

[Michael Welch]

Hello friends. We are using Mailman through Dreamhost, which doesn't allow us 
to change server-based list configurations, we only have access to the Admin's 
normal Options pages.

After years of working fine, we'd recently been having bouncing problems 
specifically with gmail addresses.

Thinking this was Dreamhost's problem, and not mine, I queried Dreamhost 
support, and they looked over a bounced message. Their suggestions are pasted 
below. I changed from_is_list to Munge From but now the reply to headers have 
both the list address and the original sender's address. So I assume the 
original sender gets sent two copies of responses, one from the list and the 
other directly to them.

I've spent some time over the years trying to train them to not use Reply to 
All to avoid that double message situation, and now it's happening even with 
just a regular Reply.

I'm hoping I can fix this easily. I know a little about this stuff, but I'm 
basically just a list manager, not a full-on sysop, so please be gentle in your 
terminology and instruction.

 From Dreamhost support:
>Taking a look into the 're-wrenches-re-wrenches.org' list, the bounce
>errors point to possible DMARC issues with the list post going out. But,
>the 're-wrenches-re-wrenches.org' list does not look to have 'Munge From'
>enabled on the list right now, so you'll want to log into the list and
>enable that on the 'General Options' page for that list.
>
>Along with that, the list sub-domain didn't have our SPF, so I've added
>it for you since the domain is managing DNS services with us as well:
>
>lists.re-wrenches.org.  300 IN  TXT "v=spf1 mx
>include:netblocks.dreamhost.com include:relay.mailchannels.net -all"
>
>That was setup on the 'Websites' > 'DNS Settings' page on your account
>for the 're-wrenches.org' domain.
>
>Having both above set will help to better the outgoing relays of the
>posts, so set the 'Munge From' and let us know if you're still seeing the
>same bounce as before. 

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[Mailman-Users] Settings for reply to all

[Michael Welch]

Hello friends. Is there a setting in Mailman that makes it possible for a 
Reply to All to pick up the From: address?


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[Mailman-Users] Moderation approval glitch

[Michael Welch]

Just had a very odd occurrence. I have a handful of users on moderation, for 
various reasons.

I received a single moderation notice for one of them, and after reading the 
user's text, went to the web site to approve it. There was only one message 
there for approval. I approved the message, and it was sent -- but here's the 
glitch: it got sent along with another separate message from him.

Then in my next mail check there was the second moderation request, which never 
showed up for approval on the web site.

Somehow, Mailman got confused and approved both messages. I looked, and his 
moderation flag is still on. And about 10 minutes later he posted again, and it 
required my approval as normal.

version 2.1.12 hosted by DreamHost.


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[Mailman-Users] Feature request

[Michael Welch]

I would love to see some way of putting someone on moderation when I add or 
invite them via Mass Subscriptions (which for me is normally one at a time 
anyway).

Elsewise, I have to stay on top of their subscription notification and get to 
the Membership List page before they have a chance to post.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request

[Michael Welch]

Hi Adam.

Ahh, a workaround. Change the default setting, add the member, then change it 
back. 

Unfortunately, one has to wait until after the new member has confirmed before 
changing the default moderation settng back.

Need to tie a string around my finger.

Adam McGreggor wrote at 04:33 PM 3/16/2009:
 
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 04:20:39PM -0700, Michael Welch wrote:
 I would love to see some way of putting someone on moderation when I
 add or invite them via Mass Subscriptions (which for me is normally
 one at a time anyway).

have you used the default_member_moderation (privacy/sender) setting?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request

[Michael Welch]

Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:27 PM 3/16/2009:
 
Michael Welch wrote:

Ahh, a workaround. Change the default setting, add the member, then change it 
back. 

Unfortunately, one has to wait until after the new member has confirmed 
before changing the default moderation settng back.

I don't get it. Why would you want to moderate new members you invite
and not moderate new members who subscribe themselves? If anything,
this seems just backwards.

Fair enough question. One actual and one theoretical answer.

The actual case that just occurred was that a known off-topic poster from 
another related list wants to join the list in question. The list in question 
has no public component, so subscription requests beyond personal invitation 
are rare.

Further, sometimes I can just tell from an email address or a stated reason for 
 wanting to join that the person might be a spammer. On a Yahoo Group I manage, 
approximately 10-15% of the signups fit the categories of potential spammers or 
likely off-topic posters.

Lyris has a great feature that puts new members on moderation until they have 
had x number of unrejected posts. I really like that idea.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request

[Michael Welch]

Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:57 PM 3/16/2009:
 
I don't know if adding a 'moderate' flag to invitations is really of general 
interest.

Hi Mark. I am not sure either, but I know that I have wished for it more than 
once. I know that Mailman cannot be everything to everyone.

I think that more universal would be the feature of new subscribers being put 
on moderation with a set number of approved posts until moderation is 
automatically removed.  

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Re: [Mailman-Users] password sends

[Michael Welch]

Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:49 PM 2/28/2009:
 
What is supposed to happen when a non-listmember tries to get a password 
reminder from the member options page?

I tried it myself after trying to figure out if a member was using the wrong 
email address, and the web page said, A reminder of your password has been 
emailed to you.

The issue is your list's membership is not public, so we can't reveal
that the person requesting the reminder is not a member or this could
be used to fish for list membership. Granted the message should be
better (i.e. more ambiguous about whether the reminder is actually
sent), but the bottom line is if the address is a non-member, no
reminder is sent.

Thanks, Mark. I hope the message can change in some future version.

I also discovered that one of my four lists doesn't even send out the 
passwords to subscribed members after saying the reminders were sent. I tried 
this on my own subscribed name and it failed. If folks can tell me what might 
be wrong here as well, I will pass it on to DreamHost tech support which has 
been quite responsive in the past.


Reminders are supposed to work for subscribed members. I don't know why
they wouldn't. As a debug technique, you could temporarily set

I hit up DreamHost support on this, and they said they changed a setting, and 
that if it still did not work I would need to give them temporary Admin access 
to the list so they could check on things. I tried a reminder, and they still 
were not working.

I went to the Admin pages and reviewed carefully all the settings (again), and 
discovered that umbrella_list was set to Yes. I set it to No, and the reminders 
began working. I suppose that setting could have been at Yes all along, but I 
didn't think so.


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[Mailman-Users] password sends

[Michael Welch]

What is supposed to happen when a non-listmember tries to get a password 
reminder from the member options page?

I tried it myself after trying to figure out if a member was using the wrong 
email address, and the web page said, A reminder of your password has been 
emailed to you.

But nothing ever arrived. I tried this with two different non-subscribed 
addresses that do not have spam filters on them. I do not have access to logs 
to answer more questions, this is a DreamHost implementation.

I also discovered that one of my four lists doesn't even send out the passwords 
to subscribed members after saying the reminders were sent. I tried this on my 
own subscribed name and it failed. If folks can tell me what might be wrong 
here as well, I will pass it on to DreamHost tech support which has been quite 
responsive in the past.

Version 2.1.11

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[Mailman-Users] help files

[Michael Welch]

version 2.1.11 

It appears that at least some of the help files are no longer available at the 
links embedded in Mailman, like this one:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/re-syntax.html

I wonder if someone with the keys to Mailman and/or python.org can fix this.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple subscribers set in mailman

[Michael Welch]

Mark Sapiro wrote at 08:41 AM 12/3/2008:
 
We have series of messages (all messages are interlinked by topic) which we 
want to share with our mailing list subscribers. Now this is fine with 
already subscribed mailing list members. But who joins new into the same 
Mailing list we want to send them, messages from the first one and onwards 
how can we do that? As the new subscribers are only receives the current 
messages they will find meaning less content. I hope I can get some solutions 
for this.

Mailman can't mail the old messages to new subscribers. The new
subscribers have to read the old messages in the list's archive.

Right. But you could do one of the following:
1. Put the info in the Welcome message
2. Put links to the messages you want new folks to read in the Welcome message
3. Put the stuff you want new members to read on a web page, and provide a link 
to that. 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] privacy options, SPAM, regex

[Michael Welch]

Hi friends.

^subject:.*is out of office.*

I just added this rule as a Reject since we have had a few of these come to 
the list lately.
^subject:.*out of office.*

Would folks be willing to share the rules they have developed that would apply 
to general business lists? We have not had any problems with spam, as our list 
is very tight. This would be for accidental or automated sendings.

Also, what does the sender receive upon rejection? I am hesitant to test lest 
something accidentally gets through. 

Is the list owner notified of these spam filter rejections? Are the spam rules 
applied after testing for list membership?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] listname-bounces@

[Michael Welch]

Thanks to all, lots of info in there.

I see now that it is probably not user error that is causing this, but that 
some users have a version of Outlook that may inadvertently picking up the 
address from the Sender: header.

So, I have a feature suggestion: Add an autoreply option for -bounces incoming 
emails.

Mark Sapiro wrote at 09:13 AM 11/18/2008:
 
Michael Welch wrote:

Right, that must be because this list's Sender: header does not look like a 
real email address. I wonder why ours are different.


This thread has been well covered. I just want to add a couple of
things:

As mentioned in other replies, the difference in the 'bounces' address
is that it is VERP like on this list and not on yours.

Also, enabling Mailman's VERP on all list posts will not necessarily
stop people from replying to the VERPd address, but it will stop your
seeing their replies because VERPd bounces are never unrecognized.
Also, if they do it often enough, they will be disabled by bounce
processing.

Finally, as alluded to in another reply, this is probably not users
replying to the -bounces address because they see it in a header.
Rather, it is more likely to be user's MUAs. See
http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9.

-- 
Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan


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Re: [Mailman-Users] listname-bounces@

[Michael Welch]

Brad Knowles wrote at 09:09 AM 11/17/2008:
 
Michael Welch wrote:

That means I end up having to do personal contact with way too many
people to let them know that they did not use the correct address, so
they need to resend.
I notice that this list does not show me the real address in those
headers, but rather something like:

Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So I would guess that the list admin for this listserver rarely sees
users mistaking the Sender: header for the correct address.

We get a few people who send to mailman-users-owner thinking that they're 
posting to the whole list, but I disabuse them of that notion.

Over the several years I've been acting as one of the co-owners of this list, 
I don't recall getting any messages being sent by users to 
mailman-users-bounces.

Right, that must be because this list's Sender: header does not look like a 
real email address. I wonder why ours are different.

I am getting pretty tired of this. How can I fix it?

You can set up an auto-responder.  For the web admin page for your mailing 
list, go to the Auto-responder section.  From there, you can set the 
auto-responder message for all posts that are sent to the list, and there's a 
separate auto-responder message that you can create for all messages sent to 
listname-owner, which should also include all messages sent to 
listname-bounces.

That does not work, I assume because the message to -owner is coming from 
-bounces and not from the original list member. So an autoresponder would be 
sent back to -bounces, which might actually create an endless loop (though I 
imagine Mailman traps for that).


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Re: [Mailman-Users] listname-bounces@

[Michael Welch]

Hi Brad. I did test it, hence That does not work.

But I do appreciate the reminder, because I had intended to populate that 
particular autoresponder.

Brad Knowles wrote at 11:09 AM 11/17/2008:
 
Michael Welch wrote:

That does not work, I assume because the message to -owner is coming from
-bounces and not from the original list member. So an autoresponder would
be sent back to -bounces, which might actually create an endless loop
(though I imagine Mailman traps for that).

You are correct, Mailman should trap for that.  This means that there's no 
harm in testing out the feature yourself, just to see what happens.

If it works, you're done.  If not, then no harm should be done, and we can 
explore other possibilities.


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[Mailman-Users] listname-bounces@

[Michael Welch]

Hi friends, hoping you can help me out. I am having to do too much work running 
our lists.

Apparently, list members not as knowledgeable as I are looking in the headers 
for our list address, and accidentally end up using the wrong address.

In the header there are at least three instances of the address:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sender:
Return-Path
Errors-To:

All contain an address that can be too easily mistaken for the list address.

That means I end up having to do personal contact with way too many people to 
let them know that they did not use the correct address, so they need to resend.

I notice that this list does not show me the real address in those headers, but 
rather something like:
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

So I would guess that the list admin for this listserver rarely sees users 
mistaking the Sender: header for the correct address.

I am getting pretty tired of this. How can I fix it?

This is a hosted list at dreamhost, so I cannot run any commands. If there is 
an easy cure, I can probably get the host to do it (it would probably have to 
apply to all their hosted lists, not just mine), but is there something I can 
do about this?

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[Mailman-Users] clue to moderation

[Michael Welch]

Hi friends. 

With Mailman, is there any clue in a received message header that the original 
message went through moderation and was approved -- as opposed to being sent 
unmoderated?

Also, I sent this previously through my From address' smtp server, but 
python.org tagged it as spam, which seems pretty aggressive considering that I 
am enrolled on the list server.

Could not deliver message to the following recipient(s):

Failed Recipient: mailman-users@python.org
Reason: Remote host said: 553 rejected, message looks like spam.

   -- The header and top 20 lines of the message follows --

Received: from adsl-75-45-6-67.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net [75.45.6.67] by 
homepower.com with SMTP;
   Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:49:35 -0700
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:47:25 -0700
To: mailman-users@python.org
From: Michael Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: clue to moderation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi friends. 

With Mailman, is there any clue in a received message header that the original 
message went through moderation and was approved -- as opposed to being sent 
unmoderated?

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[Mailman-Users] line returns missing

[Michael Welch]

Hi gang. Every now and then, I get messages from the list that display with no 
line returns. I have seen this happen on this Mailman-Users list, and recall 
that the problem was that Eudora for Windows did not handle a particular type 
of charset properly.

Now I am getting these occasionally from my own list. I do not recall this 
happening with anything other than messages from Mailman. None of my list 
members have complained (yet), but I would love to have your opinion if this is 
a list problem or my personal email client. 

Here are the ContentTypes for three of the messages, along with the sender's 
email client:

Original posted by MS Outlook 11
 text/plain; charset=windows-1250

Original posted by Yahoo web mail
 text/plain; charset=utf-8

Original posted by Microsoft Exchange V6.5
 text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7

Thanks for your help and advice.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] line returns missing

[Michael Welch]

 Check out 
participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] line returns missing

[Michael Welch]

Hi Mark.

Mark Sapiro wrote at 06:58 PM 8/2/2008:
 
Example snipped but understood.

Hmmm, how'd it get snipped? It's all in the message I got from the list server.

I have seen this behavior from Hotmail (MS Live Mail), and in that case
at least, the problem is in the message as sent, but only in the
text/plain alternative of a multipart/alternative message. The
text/html part has proper line breaks. I've even reported it to
Hotmail, but had no success in getting them to recognize the problem.

So what I'm guessing is going on is that these users are posting
multipart/alternative messages to your list, and content filtering is
on with collapse_alternatives set to Yes, so only the (defective)
text/plain part is sent to the list.

That makes sense and it is set to Yes, so this brings up the question, should I 
change it to No? Will this present any problems? I think I left all the content 
filtering set to the default.

When these same people mail directly to recipients, the recipient's
MUAs are set to render the text/html part so they never see the defect.

If I am correct, the problem is in the sender's MUA which is composing
messages with defective text/plain alternative parts.

Some supposedly full-featured MUAs, Outlook  Exchange, have been victims. 

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[Mailman-Users] header showing in message body, moderation notifications

[Michael Welch]

Hi friends. 

1. I seem to be getting a blank line after the Sender header. (or something is 
going on.) This makes it appear that some content headers are ending up in the 
message body in my Eudora message views. Any ideas how I can clear this up?

As below.

Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=_=_NextPart_001_01C8F0D3.E3792D44

2. Finally, can I get a notification email instantly when there is a message to 
moderate? The way it is right now, I only get notifications of pending 
moderated messages once per day. I looked around for this setting, and must 
have missed it. 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] header showing in message body, moderation notifications

[Michael Welch]

Terri Oda wrote at 03:10 PM 7/28/2008:
 

On 28-Jul-08, at 2:56 PM, Michael Welch wrote:
2. Finally, can I get a notification email instantly when there is  
a message to moderate? The way it is right now, I only get  
notifications of pending moderated messages once per day. I looked  
around for this setting, and must have missed it.

It's right on the front page:

Should the list moderators get immediate notice of new requests, as  
well as daily notices about collected ones?
(Details for admin_immed_notify)

Set that to yes and you're good to go!

 Terri

Are you sure that is for moderated messages, or is that for requests to join?

Mine is set to yes, and I do not get immediate message moderation notices. 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] header showing in message body, moderation notifications

[Michael Welch]

Hi Mark. Thanks for your help.

Mark Sapiro wrote at 06:17 PM 7/28/2008:
 
1. I seem to be getting a blank line after the Sender header. (or something 
is going on.) This makes it appear that some content headers are ending up in 
the message body in my Eudora message views. Any ideas how I can clear this 
up?

As below.

Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
   boundary=_=_NextPart_001_01C8F0D3.E3792D44

Does this happen to all messages from Mailman?

No, only to the ones that do not have the Content headers above the Sender and 
Errors-To headers.

What do all the headers (including part headers) of the entire raw
message look like?

Not sure about raw, but here is one of the problem messages with Eudora's 
Show All Headers turned on, including through the first line of the message 
body:

Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: from che.dreamhost.com (che.dreamhost.com [66.33.216.23])
by friskymail-mx1.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004E0125C31
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from che.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by che.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3716FE8A;
Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: from mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com
(mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.253.74])
by che.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B628EFE81
for [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:34:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailscan08.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.8]
helo=mailscan08.yourhostingaccount.com)
by mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim)
id 1KNe6y-iD-RT
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:34:48 -0400
Received: from impout03.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.3]
helo=impout03.yourhostingaccount.com)
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id 1KNe6x-00063J-VT; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:34:48 -0400
From: xx [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
'RE-wrenches' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
References: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:34:45 -0400
Organization: glb, Consulting Company
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@glbcc.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
Thread-Index: AcjvMBdkDbbOaQf3QRSZpdQ929oF8QAHxlrgAC3xi+AAAMk8QABESUDw
Content-Language: en-us
X-EN-UserInfo: 68146bc011f759eb9e1ef7151b459cc3:6156ae546b22151df025aba81cd654db
X-EN-AuthUser: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-EN-OrigIP: 68.172.92.234
X-EN-OrigHost: cpe-68-172-92-234.nycap.res.rr.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FW:  anodization removal for painting/coating
X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11
Precedence: list
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
RE-wrenches [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List-Id: RE-wrenches re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Unsubscribe: 
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org,
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List-Subscribe: 
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary0913672171==
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary==_NextPart_000_0063_01C8F0F9.C2899AA0
Content-Language: en-us

TSP is TriSodium Phosphate.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] header showing in message body, moderation notifications

[Michael Welch]

Hi Mark.

Mark Sapiro wrote at 06:05 PM 7/28/2008:
 
Michael Welch wrote:

Terri Oda wrote at 03:10 PM 7/28/2008:
 
It's right on the front page:

Should the list moderators get immediate notice of new requests, as  
well as daily notices about collected ones?
(Details for admin_immed_notify)

Set that to yes and you're good to go!

 Terri

Are you sure that is for moderated messages, or is that for requests to join?

Mine is set to yes, and I do not get immediate message moderation notices. 

It's for all moderator requests.

If it is set to Yes, and you get some owner notices, but not held
posts, there must be some modification in your Mailman installation.

Yikes, that would be weird. Unless there is a perceived threat on DreamHost's 
part, I cannot imagine them modifying that.

Well, it probably will be no big deal, I had the whole list on Emergency 
Moderation until folks got used to the switchover from Topica. I turned that 
off this morning, and very few of the members are on individual moderation.

Hmmm, do you suppose there is something in Emergency Moderation that causes 
individual moderation notices to not be sent? 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] header showing in message body, moderation notifications

[Michael Welch]

Hi Mark. Pasted below. There was way too much ugly MS html to go all the way to 
that first line of text.

Mark Sapiro wrote at 07:54 PM 7/28/2008:
 
So. I suspect the actual message structure is:

multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain
text/html
some-other-parts

and Eudora is showing you the text/plain part and not its headers, but
is not suppressing the part headers for the multipart/alternative part.

Can you find this message in the eudora mailbox? If so, that should be
the raw message.

 From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Jul 28 18:44:22 2008
X-Persona: re-wrenches.org POP
Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: from che.dreamhost.com (che.dreamhost.com [66.33.216.23])
by friskymail-mx1.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004E0125C31
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from che.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by che.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3716FE8A;
Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: from mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com
(mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.253.74])
by che.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B628EFE81
for [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:34:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailscan08.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.8]
helo=mailscan08.yourhostingaccount.com)
by mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim)
id 1KNe6y-iD-RT
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:34:48 -0400
Received: from impout03.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.3]
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by authsmtp08.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim)
id 1KNe6x-00063J-VT; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:34:48 -0400
From: x [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ,
'RE-wrenches' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
References: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:34:45 -0400
Organization: glb, Consulting Company
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@glbcc.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
Thread-Index: AcjvMBdkDbbOaQf3QRSZpdQ929oF8QAHxlrgAC3xi+AAAMk8QABESUDw
Content-Language: en-us
X-EN-UserInfo: 68146bc011f759eb9e1ef7151b459cc3:6156ae546b22151df025aba81cd654db
X-EN-AuthUser: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-EN-OrigIP: 68.172.92.234
X-EN-OrigHost: cpe-68-172-92-234.nycap.res.rr.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FW:  anodization removal for painting/coating
X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11
Precedence: list
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
RE-wrenches [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List-Id: RE-wrenches re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary0913672171==
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary==_NextPart_000_0063_01C8F0F9.C2899AA0
Content-Language: en-us

x-html 
(michael snipped here)


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[Mailman-Users] moderation rejection notices, etc.

[Michael Welch]

Hi Friends. More newby questions, I am afraid.

1. Is there no capability to edit moderated messages? I have a couple of 
moderated members that have asked me to edit their messages, and I don't see 
how. (FYI, they tend to promote their own products within their otherwise 
extremely valuable posts).

2. When I reject a moderated message with an explanation, the rejection note 
comes from listname-bounces@ . So when the member replies to that message, it 
sends me a note saying that it received an unrecognized bounce, and buried in 
the note is the member's response.

Shouldn't rejected  annotated messages come from listname-admin@ instead? I 
bet there is a good reason for this that I do not know.

3. More of a comment than a question. Mailman archives do not perfectly allow 
importing Eudora mailboxes, even though they are a form of mbox-formatted 
mailboxes. Most messages seem to do fine but maybe (I am not sure) those few 
that do not import well have a blank line before Eudora's From: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] [date time] header. Not sure if that is the cause, but it is 
possible.

4. Finally, I want to reiterate the desire for a web-based interface for 
responding to messages. I'd estimate that 5-10% of my list members used this 
feature when we were at Topica. I also would value a way for admins to remove 
individual messages from the archives through a web-based .

I understand that work on Mailman is done by a handful of dedicated volunteers, 
and I do appreciate the software and its robustness. I appreciate you folks 
that put so much time and energy into it and into helping us users.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] moderation rejection notices, etc.

[Michael Welch]

Brad Knowles wrote at 11:23 AM 7/25/2008:
 
Eudora mailboxes are not in proper 7th edition mbox format, so they cannot be 
imported directly.  You need to get that [EMAIL PROTECTED] crap fixed to be 
something reasonable before you can import them.

OK, maybe you can lead me to the specs for 7th edition mbox format.

But I think that if I can get a blank line in front of the crap that it may 
import OK. 

Or else maybe I have to move the From: header to the first line of the message, 
delete the Eudora crap, and make sure there is a blank line before each 
message in the file. 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] list archives

[Michael Welch]

Mark Sapiro wrote at 10:14 AM 7/17/2008:
 
More importantly, how does one search the mailman archives looking
for all posts that contain particular text?


See http://wiki.list.org/x/OIA9.

I was pleased to see that the DreamHost implementation of the Mailman archives 
includes htdig, which seems to be a nice little search facility. 

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[Mailman-Users] list archives

[Michael Welch]

Hi Friends. I have noticed that this list's archives include 3 months which 
have not happened yet. 

How has this occurred, and what will happen when we reach that date and new 
posts crash into the improperly dated archives?

More importantly, how does one search the mailman archives looking for all 
posts that contain particular text?

I understand that many folks use mailarchive.com, but that seems a bit out of 
our control. Will it be there forever?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] www interface

[Michael Welch]

Dragon wrote at 08:06 AM 7/16/2008:
 
Does there exists some extension/add-on for mailman that would enabled the 
www discussion interface? So that its possible to read/write contributions 
both with emails and www interface? My admin keeps telling me that nothing is 
like that and I cant believe him.

No such thing exists. Mailman is an e-mail list manager, not a web-mail 
solution like Yahoo or Google groups.

Hi Dragon. Other mail list solutions have the ability to post and reply to 
messages online. The prime example may be the Topica discussion lists. They do 
not offer web mail, but they do offer online participation.

I think this would be a great feature to add, so folks could check and post 
online, without using their ISP's web mail. I run several Topica lists, and we 
have many list members that choose No Mail and regularly go to the archives 
to view others' posts, respond, or post. For whatever reason, they prefer to 
not receive emails from the list. 

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[Mailman-Users] Invitation time limit

[Michael Welch]

Just got the following from somebody that wanted to participate and I invited. 
Is the 3 day limit built in and/or a default? It sure seems short to me, I 
would think that 14 days would be much more appropriate. As in this particular 
case, three days is a common length for folks to be gone for long weekends. 
And, it makes administrators work more than they should have to, what with 
having to sign people up more than once.

Also, it would be helpful to be able to see the current list of invitees, but I 
cannot find a web page that displays that.

Michael, thanks for the invite. When I reply it says that I’m past the 3 day 
invitation period. Please add me again and this time I’ll get right on it. 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription

[Michael Welch]

Hi friends.

I think that bulk adding is a dangerous thing to allow, from the host's 
viewpoint at a minimum. Who's to say what unscrupulous a-holes are ready to 
take advantage of that ability.

That said, my own need calls for the ability to do just that. We are qualifying 
individual supporters of our nonprofit outside of the list, via snail mail, 
sign-up sheets, and phone contact. We need to grease the skids for these folks 
as much as possible. It would seem flaky to make them hoop jump twice. Dealing 
with confirmed members and donors is MUCH different than dealing with the 
general public.

That also said, we still get occasional folks that say, why the tarnation did 
you add me to your mail list even when they specifically requested it--they 
forget what they requested, I suppose. At least they respect us enough not to 
complain to our host or spamcop.

Dreamhost allows subscribing using either Subscribe or Invite. I do not 
know if they have found a way to put limits on the numbers subscribed without 
opt-in, but they do allow it.

It's funny, their announcement list setup pages have strict anti-spam warnings, 
but the discussion lists have no such thing.

And on the mass subscribe page, the default is subscribe and not invite 
which seems to me to be an error.

Cyndi Norwitz wrote at 08:09 PM 7/9/2008:
 
   On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 10:48 PM, Cyndi Norwitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Obviously, I disagree.  As do all the other mailing list providers that 
 I'm
aware of.

   Not me.  If I were setting up a Mailman system that allowed un-trusted
   users to admin lists, then I would remove the bulk-subscription stuff
   ASAP.   Just saying.

I appreciate your input.  I am curious what other server owners/ISP's do.
From the talk on this list, it would seem that any restriction on what
listowners can do is considered a violation.  Yahoogroups allows 10 direct
adds per day and makes you click a couple extra links to find the right
page.  I believe the other large mailing list providers are similar. 

Assuming you ran a system with users you didn't know well enough to judge,
what sorts of options would you consider implementing?  If any...


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription

[Michael Welch]

Right, Brad. 

Did you note that on our subscribe page, the default radio box is subscribe 
and not invite?

I do not know if that is a site admin setting, but it seems to me it should be 
the opposite.

Brad Knowles wrote at 11:58 AM 7/10/2008:
 
Michael Welch wrote:

That said, my own need calls for the ability to do just that.

And I've used it myself on numerous occasions.  This is why I haven't made too 
much noise about stripping this function, or even turning it off by default.  
I trust myself to use it, and I'm willing to trust most of my users on certain 
systems, but I don't trust anyone else.

Since I want to keep the feature for myself, I can't argue too loudly to 
remove it for everyone else.

Right.  

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[Mailman-Users] Moderation in mass subscribes, and moderator member list view

[Michael Welch]

Hi friends. A couple of questions.

I do not have shell access, only access through the admin page automatically 
set up by my host.

On one of my lists, I want to put some folks, but not others, on moderation as 
I invite them. Is there some coding I can add to the end of their entry in the 
mass subscribe box or something I am missing?

Also, I was surprised to see that my moderator does not have access to changing 
the moderation status of list members. And I do not find an opportunity to give 
them that access. Am I missing something?

No doubt there will be more questions, I hope I do not wear on your patience.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters

[Michael Welch]

Mark Sapiro wrote at 08:58 PM 6/2/2008:
 
| I think the Topica listserver had a great way to deal with email
| addresses in archives. You could see a semblance of the email address,
| but no way could you deduce the real address. If you are logged into
| the site, each is still obscured, but is a live link that opens up an
| email-like dialog box -- with the real address still obscured. But it
| does send an email to the real address for the obscured address.

Try clicking the 'forward' button when viewing a message in a Topica
archive. It reveals all.

Right, there's lots broken at Topica. But I sure do like the intent of their 
obscuration technique. 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters

[Michael Welch]

Steve Murphy wrote at 10:03 AM 5/23/2008:
 
I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info by thread 
(using the mailman archives as an example,) which site is 2.1.10 based, that 
all email addresses are present, but with a simple obfuscation. (the @ has 
been changed to  at .) I can't help but to think that this simple 
obfuscation is a joke. Any harvester written in the past number of years would 
be smart enough to capture such accurately.

I think the Topica listserver had a great way to deal with email addresses in 
archives. You could see a semblance of the email address, but no way could you 
deduce the real address. If you are logged into the site, each is still 
obscured, but is a live link that opens up an email-like dialog box -- with the 
real address still obscured. But it does send an email to the real address for 
the obscured address.

Pretty good way of dealing with the problem, but I have no idea if something 
like this could be coded into Mailman archives.  

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo

[Michael Welch]

Mark Sapiro wrote at 08:21 AM 2/20/2008:
 
Thanks for your reply.  I understand that ultimately it is a Yahoo problem
and ultimately something that will never be cured.  I was hoping since I
only run one small list that there was a magic switch that I could flip
that would get past Yahoo.


If you are convinced that sending to only one Yahoo recipient per
message will avoid the problem, set Non-digest options- personalize
to Yes. It doesn't have to be Full as another poster suggested, and
you don't actually have to personalize any header or footer
information. Setting personalize to Yes is enough to cause messages to
be sent individually.

If you don't see this option, you have to ask your provider to put

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py.

It even happens when sending to a single yahoo address.

I ran into this error message when sending an email to three people: one a 
yahoo account, one gmail, and the other was an account on our server. The email 
was sent yesterday, and the message was waiting for me this morning. 

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[Mailman-Users] option to send mail but disallow posting

[Michael Welch]

Hi gang. Beginner Mailman question here.

Is there a subscription option which allows receipt of all list emails, but 
disallows some members from posting? It would need to be something that is 
Admin settable, but cannot be changed by the subscriber.

I understand that I can put these folks on moderation and then delete any 
attempt to post, but I would rather have a hands-off method. 

This Mailman installation will be hosted by DreamHost, so I do not have access 
to command-line tools.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] option to send mail but disallow posting

[Michael Welch]

Mark Sapiro wrote at 06:31 PM 09/19/2007:
 
Is there a subscription option which allows receipt of all list emails, but 
disallows some members from posting? It would need to be something that is 
Admin settable, but cannot be changed by the subscriber.

I understand that I can put these folks on moderation and then delete any 
attempt to post, but I would rather have a hands-off method. 

You're half way there. You set them moderated, set the list's
member_moderation_action to Reject and provide appropriate text in
member_moderation_notice. These are on the Privacy options...-Sender
filters page in the admin interface.

Thanks, Mark. Seems like that would prevent me from being able to moderate 
other participants that do have permission to post, but must be baby-sat.

So, unless there is something else, I guess I am stuck with putting them on the 
list moderated, and hand-rejecting their posts.

Allowing non-posting list members would be a good feature request. 

The way we dealt with this on Topica was to have them view the archives online 
which obviously had to be made public.

P.S. Still looking for a regexp wizard to help delete Topica body footers and 
ads from the emails in my mailboxes.  

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Re: [Mailman-Users] post formatting and timing

[Michael Welch]

Hi everyone. Just as a followup, Katrina on the Eudora list I am on came up 
with a UTF-8 decoder plug-in.
http://windharp.de/software/utf8iso.htm

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote at 07:22 PM 06/26/2007:
 
Mark Sapiro writes:

  I don't know if there is a standard that says your MUA 'should'
  recognize a single LF in the decoded text as a line break,

Since it's in UTF-8, Unicode does, Technical Annex #14.  Conformance
is required by Unicode 4.0.

Of course if the MUA doesn't claim conformance to Unicode there's no
requirement, and AFAIK there's nothing in RFC 2822 or the MIME RFCs
that requires conformance to any text standard beyond ASCII.  However,
most Unicode requirements are considered best current practice.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] I lost my patch :-(

[Michael Welch]

This list's posts started showing up with all the line returns ignored. None of 
my other emails are showing up this way. Not sure when it started, I have been 
on vacation. But I noticed it earlier today and decided to start watching it.

Am I the only one?

Tokio Kikuchi wrote at 06:35 PM 06/20/2007:
 
 In my ‘board_member’ list, under “Privacy options” (Sender filters).  I  
 have:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the box labeled “List of non-member addresses 
 whose postings  should be automatically accepted” 
 http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1220144group_id=103atid=300103
  -- Mailman-Users 
 mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org 
 http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: 
 http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] post formatting and timing

[Michael Welch]

Hi again. The problem seemed cured, now I am getting garbled posts again.

Further, this post took a full 6 days to show up after I sent it.

Maybe I am on moderation, and the moderator is slow at checking in. Or ??

Michael Welch wrote at 07:04 PM 06/20/2007:
 
This list's posts started showing up with all the line returns ignored. None 
of my other emails are showing up this way. Not sure when it started, I have 
been on vacation. But I noticed it earlier today and decided to start watching 
it.

Am I the only one?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] post formatting and timing

[Michael Welch]

Thanks Brad  Dan for straightening me out. Kinda embarrassing, since I am a 
header watcher.

Peace.

Brad Knowles wrote at 09:29 AM 06/26/2007:
 
On 6/26/07, Michael Welch wrote:

 Hi again. The problem seemed cured, now I am getting garbled posts again.

 Further, this post took a full 6 days to show up after I sent it.

 Maybe I am on moderation, and the moderator is slow at checking in. Or ??

Try checking your headers again:

Received: from homepower.com (rickgermany.com [72.32.57.52])
by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
for mailman-users@python.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2007
13:20:00 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from adsl-66-126-233-22.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net
[66.126.233.22] by homepower.com with SMTP; Wed,
20 Jun 2007 19:15:19 -0700

Whatever machine is running homepower.com, they delayed your mail, not us.

Moreover, mailman-users is one of the very few mailman-* lists where new 
members are not moderated by default.  Once you're subscribed, you should be 
able to post immediately.


I can't speak to the other problems.

-- 
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Slides from Invited Talks: http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0


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