Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
Barry Warsaw wrote: If I was aware of such problems in the past, I honestly don't remember -- I'll place the blame squarely on my overloaded brain, and age. :) Taking a fresh look at this, I say let's do what we can to get the lists on Gmane, including any back archives. The problem is that Gmane violated both their own policies (to contact list owners before adding lists) and their agreement with us to not archive mailman lists. I simply don't trust them. This problem surfaced when I found a virgin address of mine receiving spam. I had just that newly created address to subscribe and post to a mailman list. How had spammers found it so fast? A quick google found that my address had been leaked straight to usenet by gmane. 1) They didn't contact the list owner for permission before archiving the list. 2) They didn't munge email addresses before posting the list messages to usenet. They seem to have fixed problem #2, but problem #1 remains. How hard is it to follow their OWN policy and contact a list's owner before adding it to their gateway? This is basic netiquette. Yet they don't seem able to comply with it. Taking a fresh look, it looks like they are STILL unable (or unwilling) to comply with this. And that's the crux of the matter. Ask me if you can borrow my car, and I might say yes and give you the keys. Take my car without asking, that's theft. Ask me if I want to have sex, and I might say yes! Try to have sex with me without my permission, that's rape. Ask me if you can mirror/gateway a list I administer, I might say yes. Mirror or gateway it without permission (especially when your OWN policy says you ask first) and it is a netiquette violation and a copyright violation. Not as bad as car theft or rape, but it's still a matter of taking something without permission, and it's still wrong. IMHO we should not let Gmane mirror the mailman lists until they FIX their subscription process to ensure that they have the list owner's permission *before* they add the list to their gateway. If we don't maintain this policy, we are endorsing what they do (adding without getting permission) and that's just wrong. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
Brad Knowles wrote: I try very hard to never say never, but I cannot imagine a circumstance were we would possibly ever trust them to carry any Mailman or Python-related content. I *can* imagine - it could (perhaps) happen when they actually follow their stated policy and contact a list owner to confirm that the list owner approved of the list being mirrored on gmane. Something that has not happened even ONCE WRT the mailman lists. Until gmane starts following their own rules, we can't trust them. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
Barry Warsaw wrote: I think that if Gmane were to address the issues that Brad and JC have raised about their operations, then it would be worth reconsidering. +1 :-) jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce issues with Yahoo - resolved
Greg Lindahl wrote: snip Yahoo and Verizon mailing list delivery problems and info Since these issues are common to different mailing list managers, is there a website that contains this kind of info? If not, should we make one and advertise it to other mailing list communities? I don't know about a website, but there is a mailing list (with archives) where this information is on-topic and useful: http://www.greatcircle.com/list-managers/ I suggest you post this information to that list, and ask if anyone there can suggest a website where the information should be added. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] ADMIN - Staying on topic - spam filtering/reflecting and list management philosophy are not on topic....
Hey folks, can we try to remember that this is the mailman-users list? Discussions about list management philosophy belong on list-managers: http://www.greatcircle.com/lists/list-managers/ and discussions about spam filtering or spam reflecting belong on spam-l: http://www.claws-and-paws.com/spam-l/ or your other favorite forum for discussing spam and spam filtering philosophy. Or take the discussion to private email. Please limit your discussions on these topics on this list on how to implement specific features *in mailman*, OK? Thanks! jc - assistant mailman-users admin -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
Brad Knowles wrote: At 10:07 PM -0500 2006-02-15, John A. Martin wrote: Heaven forfend! What harm will Gmane do. Why does doing Gmane mean doing others? What do you fear from others that would follow from doing Gmane. Well, the fact that these mailing lists were gatewayed to Gmane without the nominator getting our approval, and without Gmane confirming that this was an approved action, is pretty clear evidence to me that they don't bother to follow their own rules regarding the intellectual property of others. The fact that they personally promised me that this problem had been fixed after the last time I dealt with them, and yet we find that this has happened yet once again, is simply more fuel for the fire. As one of the other admins for the mailman-users list, I just want to strongly echo Brad's position above. When we first asked Gmane to not gateway this list, one of the issues was that while our own archives munge the email address of list posters, the Gmane feed didn't do any munging. Instead Gmane leaked otherwise virgin email addresses out where they could (and were) scraped by spiders and subsequently sent spam. (Which is how I discovered that Gmane was gatewaying the list, when a freshly created email address started receiving spam very shortly after I started using it to post to mailman-users.) Taken together (gatewaying the list without permission, and exposing the email addresses to spammers) we were not very happy with Gmane's actions. So it's not that we are capriciously being mean to Gmane (and Gmane users) here. Gmane has earned our distrust. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
Jon D. Slater wrote: Some are pretty generic (board) while others are not (DesignReviewCommittee). Are your list submission addresses on the web anywhere? Do a google search for [EMAIL PROTECTED] (search both web and groups) and see if you get any matches. If you do, then the email address is going to get spam because if a search engine has found a page with the email address on it then a spammer's email scraping web spider will have found the page too. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] add Approved: header to subject [dnk]
Dustin Krysak wrote: Good day. I have a moderated list where I have implemented the Approve: header method. Now with the people using this, having it actually in the headers is not an option as they do not understand how to modify them, etc. Now i know there is the option to add it to the first line of the body. This too does me no good as the end user will be sending HTML mail to their list... which when using the Aprove: header is an issue since a portion of the html is stripped and that causes other portions of the HTML to be displayed to the people. IS there a way to use the Approve header in the subject of the email? Not that I know of. Just looking for a way to spoof proof a list and still use HTML without having to get them to add the extra header in their mail client (outlook). One solution is for your approved posters would be for them to use a different client that allows them to add an extra header. They wouldn't have to use that client for all their email - they could just use it when they want to post to your list. Take a look at Eudora, Agent, and Thunderbird. In Eudora and Thunderbird look at how to do stationary in that client that would automatically address the message to your list and automatically include the approved header, and then create a step-by-step instruction sheet on how to download, install, and configure the client to work to post to your list. It will take each user a few minutes to follow your instructions, but once it's all setup all they have to do is open the client software and create a new message and everything else will be automagic. In Agent, you add the alternate header as a field in the agent.ini and then it's available as a special field that you can fill in when you compose an outbound message. Another solution is to use the 2-step process of sending (without an approved header) then logging into the website and approving the held message. Just make your approved senders moderators of your list. This is easier to get started, but means more steps each time they want to send a post to your list. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
Jp Possenti wrote: I have a couple of questions regarding that FAQ link: 1. Setting the max_num_recipients to 1 will mean that any time I make a newsletter to the public, I need to login and approve that request, correct? The number of recipients is the number of addresses in the email you compose. When you sent this message (that I'm replying to), you addressed it to mailman-users@python.org which is just ONE recipient. (To the mailman server, this message had only one recipient.) If you had sent this message to mailman-users@python.org and also to the author of the message you were replying to (via To or CC), then to the mailman server this message would have had two recipients. The max_num setting is used to help prevent users from sending messages addressed to (or cc) many different addresses in a single message. In most case such messages are not messages you want distributed to your list. This setting is usually used for discussion lists and the default is left alone for announcement lists because you control who and how the posts go to your list by using moderation and approved passwords, rather than by limiting the number of recipients in the initial email. I am just confused about the wording of the command. Does that mean that the message will go through but just to 1 person in the list and the other say 499 people will not receive it? No, it does not do that and there is no setting to do that. 2. For setting everyone's moderation bit on, I can figure that out as it's an option under General - Additional settings. But for the second part regarding posting using an approved:header I don't see that option anywhere. How would this work? I just updated the announcement list FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=approved+headerquerytype=simplecasefold=yesreq=search to include: The approved header or first line has the following format: Approved: password If you are using this on the first line of your post, follow it with a blank line. Mailman will recognize it as the header and remove it from the body. Follow it with a blank line because the line following the Approved: line is removed too (in Mailman 2.1.4 anyway). I don't know how HTML formatting and other email client oddities may affect using the approved header in the first line of your post so I can't be certain that this will work perfectly for you on your first try. I've seen it happen where someone got confused, didn't use the approved header as a first line correctly, then approved the message using the web interface only to discover their message distributed to the whole list with the password included in the message. So it's usually a good idea to use a test list with 2 or 3 subscribers and practice using the first line of your post approved password system a few times so you can be sure that it works as you expect before you try to use it on a large distribution list. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
Lawrence Bowie wrote: OK .. Here is the reason it says .. Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list but he is a member of the list. Are headers necessary for you guys to see? Betcha he's not subscribed with the *exact* same address as he's sending the post from. A common problem of this type is when someone subscribed with an email address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then posts to the list from [EMAIL PROTECTED], or visa versa. Complete headers would help, as would verifying the *exact* email address the member is subscribed with. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] prevent address spoofs [dnk]
Dustin Krysak wrote: Good day -- I am looking at using mailman for a list that will just have 1 -4 addresses that will be authorized to actually post to the list. I am also looking for a way to manage list members with a web interface as well as the usual subscription type functions. Now one of my main concerns is if someone actually spoofs one of the authorized email addresses. Does mailman have a good security measure for preventing that? That is without having to approve every post through a web interface? One way to accomplish your goal is set-up your list as an announcement list where every message must be approved before sending on to the subscribers. Then you give the 4 individuals the moderator approval password and they include that password in the headers or first line of each post they make to the list. Mailman strips off the approval line and then sends the message on to the list subscribers. If someone forged one of these senders when sending to the list the message would be held for approval because it didn't have the password. See: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.034.htp jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote: Dan, do you know how long it is taking to send to this list now ? Might it make a difference if you did this at night / off-hours ? Yes it is for thefoldmusic.com. To my knowledge, most recipients NEVER even receive the e-mails I send out. Only a few of the early letter of the alphabet receive them. I've tried sending on off hours, that worked better with my old server (pair.com), but for budget purposes I have switched to bluehost.com which is where the mailman list currently resides. Good; fast; cheap: Pick any two. You can't have all 3. You left pair.com (good, fast, fairly cheap but not dirt cheap) because you wanted an even cheaper hosting solution. Well, now you know what happens when you go with a cheaper host - they aren't any good (most of your messages never get delivered) and they certainly aren't fast (limiting you to 300 messages per hour!). The only real solution is to find a better host. I strongly suggest you take Chris up on the offer for a better host solution. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mailman. Command output: Group mismatch error
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, How to repair this error ? : * * * [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Command died with status 2: /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman. Command output: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group daemon, but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group users. Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group daemon, or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=users'. I think you should try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group daemon. Or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=users'. But that's just a guess. (Well, not really a guess.) You could also go to the mailman FAQ (following the link in the footer of every email you receive from this list) and search on: group mismatch Which finds 2 FAQ entries that explain this issue in greater detail. Use the FAQ, Antoine. :-) jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman without hosting mail server
Darich Runyan/OMNI INFOSEC HQ wrote: Thanks for the quick reply. I was afraid that it was possible but would be very complex/time consuming. I guess I will look into either migrating hosting of our email in-house, or as John Dennis pointed out, finding a hosting company that provides list services. Of these two choices, finding a better host is by FAR the easier answer. Migrating and running email in house can be very difficult. You have to deal with: Spam Viruses Sending email from many locations (for mobile users) (While avoiding having an open relay) Setting up a list manager Providing webmail options A good host does all these things for you. The small price for hosted email (and hosted websites) is usually far less than the labor costs for the employees and/or consultants needed to bring email services in-house for most small businesses. Only when your hosting costs start to approach the cost for an IT person's salary should most businesses consider bringing these services in-house. (There are exceptions, if you happen to have someone who is already expert in all these skills in-house, doing other tasks, who can do this stuff in spare time. But most small businesses who are using hosted email don't have someone who knows all of this and who has extra time to deal with all these tasks.) jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our mailing list...
John W. Baxter wrote: Note that it's not just the ISP. We regularly get support calls about mail not being received, when the logs clearly show that the message was deposited into the user's mailbox and later picked up by the user's machine. Something on the user's machine (our users primarily run Windows of some vintage) has filed, dropped, or done whatever to the message. I have found that in most such cases it's PEBKAC. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems
Christopher X. Candreva wrote: On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote: Here is the text of the emails. They are pushing the BondedSender like crazy - especially since I received an email direct from BondedSender. at the address I only used with this ticket to hotmail. I would turn the problem around. Tell the hotmail users that hotmail is blocking their list mail, and they should contact hotmail and tell them to stop blocking their legit mail. Or, if it's not a business list, tell hotmail users they need to use a different address and move on. Send them all a gmail invite while you're at it. That's what I recommend too. Your list subscribers are not getting their list email because Hotmail is being unreasonable. Instead of expecting you to jump thru hoops for Hotmail, it's perfectly reasonable for you to put the shoe on the other foot and tell them to use a different email provider that has more reasonable policies. When Hotmail finds that they are losing users by droves they will stop expecting all legitimate senders to jump thru these unreasonable hoops. The 'Net treats censorship as damage and routes around it. (John Gilmore) In this case, the censorship is a side effect of Hotmail's Bonded Sender program being badly implemented (saying that your mail server can only speak to their mail server if it participates in Bonded Sender) and rejecting legitimate email. Route around it by assisting your Hotmail users in getting another email account. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] strange bounce message
Anne Ramey wrote: A couple of people have sent replies to one of my lists today and several of the messages bounced like this: === THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE === A temporary error occured while delivering to the following address(es): pfenno at ncees.org: 454 TLS not available, must be connected via TCP I will continue trying to send the message until it is delivered or expires. They've replied without incident before. It looks like they have changed something on their end to require the message to be delivered TLS, which the server this message is attempting to deliver to does not support, and that there is nothing I can do...is that correct. What can I tell the sender to do to prevent this? Any pointers would be appreciated. I've been using mailman for a couple of years and haven't run into this before. This is an smtp mail server error which has nothing to do with mailman. It looks like the message is coming from their local smtp server and is saying that their smtp server can't reach your smtp server. If the people who are getting these bounce messages are all sending from different servers then the problem is with your smtp server. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Where are the bounces?
Brad Knowles wrote: At 2:57 PM +0200 2005-09-02, Michael Schaarwaechter wrote: great, mailman handles the most bounces going back to listname-bounces itself. But now we have a problem in our Mailserver and would like to take a look at these bounces. Is that possible? I didn't find any place where I can see the mails themself. The bounces themselves only exist on the server long enough to be processed by the BounceRunner. After that, they are thrown away. If you want to see the individual bounces themselves, you're going to have to make some configuration changes to Mailman or how you integrate Mailman into your MTA. A simple change would be to edit the alias for the bounce address to deliver the mail to both A) a separate mailbox where you can look at them at your leisure and B) to mailman for processing. For details on how to make those kinds of configuration changes, I would encourage you to spend some time searching the archives. That too. :-) jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails with a Subject in Chinese to a Mailing List
game lover wrote: I am currently using Mailman 2.1.5 provided by a hosting service. When I send emails with a subject in Chinese to a mailing list that I created in Mailman, the emails are always discarded without any notice to the senders and recipients. Would anyone please help me to solve this issue? I will appreciate any information on this issue As your second post (presumably with Chinese characters in the subject and body) to this list shows, Chinese characters go thru without any problems. Have you asked your hosting service to look into your problem for you? I suspect your messages are being discarded by a spam filter at your host and are never reaching Mailman. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists
Marc Silverman wrote: Forgive me if I didn¹t locate a solution to this I did find some posts about Umbrella Lists, but nothing addressed my problem: I have a dozen mailing lists. I created an Umbrella List to post to all of them. The posts go out, but each separate list Holds the message for Admin Moderation: Reason:Message has implicit destination No matter what I¹ve tried, I cannot get my post to not hit the ³Hold for Admin Moderation² Facts you might want to know: Don't need to know anything more than what you have above: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=Message+has+implicit+destinationquerytype=simplecasefold=yesreq=search Finds a FAQ entry which explains this message: 1.9. What does message has implicit destination mean? It means that the address for the list was not found in the To: or CC: headers. Typically this is due to one of a couple reasons: 1) Your list has a different domain name (FQDN) than you think it does, or than was used as the target address of the message. See the second to last entry on the main list configuration page to ensure that you have this set properly. 2) The message was BCC'ed (blind carbon copied) to the list, and was actually not addressed to the list directly (not that you can see). If you're running an umbrella list, you may want this message to be accepted by the sub-list. To do that, in the sub-list's admin screen, go to Privacy Options / Recipient Filters / Alias Names, and enter the name of the umbrella list as a valid alias. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] nested lists?
Duane Winner wrote: Hello, I have created an announcment mailing list so I can send announcements to all of my clients member's emails (several dozen). I already have 12 unique mailing lists created for each organization of which these clients are members. These are discussion mailing lists. Is there a way I can incorporate the existing discussion mailing list memberships into my new announce list, so that I don't have to replicate adding the members, and also so I don't have to remember in the future to add a new member to both their respective discussion list as well as the announcement list? Yes, it's called an umbrella list. See: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.005.htp for several different ways to implement this. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Public link to subscriber-only list?
Brad Knowles wrote: At 2:18 PM +0200 2005-07-18, Jean Delvare wrote: 1* Make the list public (possibly by making non-member posts moderated rather than rejected). We tried that. The moderators couldn't keep up with all the spam, plus all the legitimate moderated posts. There's just too much traffic on the list. There were several problems with this approach: 1) Filtering out all the spam. Lots of spam. Lots of spam that gets past spam filters. It meant we had to moderate all non-member posts and sometimes this didn't get done for a while when moderators were busy. 2) Sometimes someone would reply just to the list, and if the person asking wasn't subscribed to the list then they didn't get the reply. This was often the case as a thread grew and grew a long list of cc's, posters would trim to reply just to the list rather than to the list and all of the prior contributers. 3) Due to having to moderate all non-member posts to filter out spam, this meant that someone with an urgent question sent their message off and it didn't get posted until who-knows-when later, when a moderator could get around to approving the on-topic posts and rejecting the spam. Sometimes we would find several increasingly urgent messages from someone because they hadn't figured out that subscribing would get their message posted straight away. We changed to the current format because it puts things in the control of the poster. You subscribe, you confirm, you post, and your message goes thru NOW, not later when a moderator gets around to dealing with the held non-member posts. You always get the replies even if they go just to the list. You also have a welcome message that encourages you to READ THE FAQ and SEARCH THE ARCHIVES which answer about 90% of the questions asked on the list and therefore will solve your problem even faster. The downside is that as you noticed, the expectation of what you get when you click on the link isn't what happens. I think the best solution is to better present what you get, which is your solution #2 below. 2* Make the link point to the list subscription page [2] rather than the list address itself, as subscribing is the first thing that needs be done here. This might add to confusion more than help though. We might consider that. We'll talk it over between the webmaster and postmaster/mailing list personnel. I like this solution. We have talked about it in the past, perhaps we will implement it now. 3* Remove the link altogether, as proposals 1 and 2 don't sound really good. #2 is a better option. +1 jc - volunteer assistant admin on mailman-users -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailadress in Header
Christian Vierkant wrote: Hello, I have a little issue with all my mailing lists. For every mailinglist there is always one fixed user (in the sample below [EMAIL PROTECTED]) appearing in all outgoing messages. We are using Mailman 2.1.2 with Postfix 2.0.14. Here a sample from a mail sent to a different user than in this header: [...] Received: (qmail 17852 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2005 06:45:29 - Received: from unknown (HELO mailmanserver.somewhere.com) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (envelope-sender [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by smtp.provider.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 9 Jun 2005 06:45:29 - Received: from mailmanserver.somewhere.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailmanserver.somewhere.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C14870BF; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 08:45:29 +0200 (CEST) [...] Does this look like a mailman, postfix or provider problem? A month ago I asked privately about this (on behalf of a friend's list which arrives in my inbox in this fashion) and was told: It's definitely being added by some MTA in the chain. Mailman never touches the Received headers. On my friend's list, the one user differs somewhat from mailing to mailing (the list sends out small clusters of newsletter posts every few weeks), so I have a handful of email addresses I've received in the headers of posts from that list. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] suscribers list in .txt format
Pablo Allietti wrote: hi all. i need a .txt file with my list suscribers is possible to do with mailman?? in console or web mode i need to invite all my 700 contacts to join other new list. ~/mailman/bin/ has a command called list_members which will do what you want. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman configuration
Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote: Hi all I'm configuring mailman and I have this error : Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group mail, but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group nobody Does someone have un idea ? In the footer of every post you receive from the mailman list is a link to the mailman FAQ: Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Search on: Group mismatch error http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=Group+mismatch+errorquerytype=simplecasefold=yesreq=search and you will find 2 FAQ entries that explain what you need to fix. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Head's UP - we changed administrivia settings for the mailman-users and -dev lists
Because the mailman-users and mailman-developers lists frequently discuss administrivia matters and because most users on these lists know how to properly email the list server for administrivia tasks, most administrivia filter matches to these lists are false positives. We have just changed the list config to no longer try to filter out administrivia requests. When you send email to unsubscribe or otherwise change your list settings be *extra* careful to send your request to the server address and not the list submission address, lest your mistake go out to the whole list. (You probably won't like the flames this is likely to produce.) jc - volunteer assistant list admin for -users and -dev -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting problem after moving Mailman from one box to another
Thomas Waters wrote: On Jun 21, 2005, at 2:10 PM, JC Dill wrote: What about alises? There are no aliases http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=aliasesquerytype=simplecasefold=yesreq=search See FAQ entries 1.7 and 3.14. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] pipermail+archives
Mark Sapiro wrote: Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote: I have seen in the list I use that these 2 headers are not all the times existing, even if the mail that has been sent is an answer. Perhaps it depends of the MUA. Yes, it depends on the MUA. The standard says these headers SHOULD be included, not that they MUST be, so it is not wrong to omit them and not all MUAs include them. This will also happen most of the time when the reply user is on digest, because the digest has no reference header to the single article they are replying to. The exception may be if they are getting the digest type that their email client can explode back into individual articles - and if Mailman includes the reference header with the individual articles. Since I don't do digests, I don't know what the details are with this type of digest and if threading works in this case or not. Someone who knows more about this type of digest may be able to give input on if it retains the references header for each post. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Automatic processing
Mark Sapiro wrote: I know I've seen a note somewhere about this, but I can't find it at the moment. The best place I can think of off hand, which might be wrong, is to send them to the mailman-developers@python.org list. The mailman-developers list is a closed list now. You have to subscribe before you can post, and you have to be approved to subscribe. We changed the list to this format because the list was getting very cluttered with posts that belonged in -users instead, making it hard for the developers to keep up on the development discussions. Instead, please just use the bug tracker for these reports. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103atid=100103 jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] How do the spammers do it?
Mike Avery wrote: Someone else said they are pulling their hair out. Me too! This has happened several times - I create a new list for a local group. I add the users to it myself. I make the list public in the Mailman/listinfo web page. And within 2 weeks, the list starts getting spammed. How do they get the list name? A recipient has a virus/trojan infected computer that is disclosing the list email address to the spammer who controls the trojan. I have an email address that I use only for friends. I sent out my change of address announcement about 6 months ago. Just a few days ago this address started getting spammed. The address is not in google (web or groups) and is not on any hidden webpages either. So one of my 100+ friends who received the change of address email has an infected computer. :-( jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] member_posting_only
kalin mintchev wrote: Those messages aren't approved -- they're held. ok, Brad. thanks. sure. they are held. held for approval. they are not approved. true. are they from subscribed members? some. most are not. but the setting says members_postings_only = 'yes' (ONLY!) That is the setting for the *automatic* process. Mailman will *automatically* send member posts to the list, and it will do something else with the non-member posts per your specification. ok. but there are about 60-70% messages that come from non members. they are held too. held for approval. or to be discarded. why? Why not? For many lists this is the desired behavior. i don't know. they are not members. they should not be held. at all That is up for the list owner to configure. in short the logic says: no, they should not even considered to be held for approval. they are sent to the list by non members (spammers). the list is restricted so that ONLY members can post. that means any post from anybody not on the list doesn't matter - it's not important. shouldn't be held for approval. That is but one possible configuration. See your list admin page at: $domain/mailman/admin/$listname/privacy/sender When a message is posted to the list, a series of moderation steps are take to decide whether the a moderator must first approve the message or not. This section contains the controls for moderation of both member and non-member postings. Note that there are a *series* of steps. For some lists, even *members* are not allowed to post to the list (one-way or announcement lists). Those lists are configured at the settings for: By default, should new list member postings be moderated? (set to yes for one-way lists) Action to take when a moderated member posts to the list. (default is to hold, you can also select reject or discard) For a discussion list where members are allowed to post, you then decide if you want mailman to *automatically* post posts from anyone, or only from members. You set this at: Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined. (default is hold) Then you decide what you want done with the other posts. You set this at Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined. The default is to hold but you can also select accept, or reject, or discard as appropriate for YOUR list. The default is hold because you may wish to allow on-topic posts by non-members. This very list (mailman-users) allows posts of that nature - I'm one of the list admins who reviews the non-member posts and approves the on-topic ones to be sent on to the list. For other lists with other policies, you can elect to have non-member posts bounced or discarded if you prefer. That way each list owner can configure their list to meet their needs. what is not clear in the statement members_postings_only='yes'? 'yes' or 'only'? i guess i'm hanging on only. wouldn't you? I think you are missing the big picture. There are many different ways that lists can be configured. The only term applies to the *automatic* handling by mailman, not to the choices made by the list owners and admins. Mailman automatically posts messages from members only, and then the *default* option lets the list owner/admin decide what to do with the rest but this is something you can easily change as shown above. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Please help...
Mark Sapiro wrote: Brian G. Altman wrote: I am trying to prevent people from replying directly to a Digest that is sent from the mailing list. Why? There are many different reasons why you might want this, and the best solution for your situation will depend on the why. The Reply-To field points to the posting address of the list, which I would like to change. There is no option or list setting to change this. The Reply-To: for digests is set to the list address in Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py. If you want to change it, you have to change the code. You can also: A) Make your list a moderated-post list so that replies to the digest don't get sent out to the rest of the list. B) Use Privacy Options - Spam filters to reject replies that quote your list's digest subject (e.g. listname digest). C) You can set an explicit reply-to which applies to all sent messages not just the digests, see the General Options section on the admin page: Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended for most mailing lists. (Details for reply_goes_to_list) Poster This list Explicit address Explicit Reply-To: header. (Details for reply_to_address) HTH jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virus Just Got Through on TOTALLY MODERATED list.
Brad Knowles wrote: At 10:50 PM -0800 2005-01-28, JC Dill wrote: OK, I'm just speculating here... what if there's a virus/trojan out that is able to take email that a user had already sent (email in the sent folder), and resend it with a virus payload (in this case, the beagle.ba virus above)? If it grabbed an email that the moderator had sent to the list with the Approved: password included, and just appended the virus payload, it would result in what you saw, right? One flaw in this theory -- the Approved: header gets stripped before the message is posted to the list. The only way the Approved: header could get captured by the virus would be if the moderator's account is the one that got infected, and the virus pulled the approved message out of the sent mailbox of the moderator. Didn't I say that above? Even then, most moderators work via the web and not via e-mail, so this would be a very low probability of success. Most moderators use the web to approve email from *others*, but most of the ones I know who are responsible for originating content for their list use the approved header when they send the content to their list so that they don't have to take an additional step of going to the webpage to approve the message they just sent. My speculation is about this exact scenario, a moderator who uses the approved header has old email with that header in their sent box, and a virus/trojan grabbed one of those messages and resent it (with the approved header) with the virus payload attached. If it hasn't happened yet, then yet is the critical factor. It's going to happen someday... jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virus Just Got Through on TOTALLY MODERATED list.
Mark Sapiro wrote: Furthermore, if such a scenario has occurred or did occur in the future, I suspect it would be just an unlucky accident. While I'm sure that a clever worm creator could deliberately try to exploit this potential vulnerability, I don't think the payoff would be sufficient to justify the attack. First of all, the attack would rely on a list administrator An attack of this type would not be just for list administrator posts. It would also get past whitelist filters - because the message would come from someone you have already received email from and are much more likely to be accepting email from than some random stranger address. If we haven't seen it it's just because we haven't seen it *yet*. I'm sure spammers are busy working on something like this right now, as a way to create more zombies with their virus/trojan payload. So I repeat my soapbox statement, don't allow attachments to your mailing list. The downside is too great, sooner or later your list WILL end up spreading a virus. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virus Just Got Through on TOTALLY MODERATED list.
Brad Knowles wrote: At 8:50 AM -0800 2005-01-29, JC Dill wrote: Didn't I say that above? Not that I saw, no. What I read of your message indicated that the virus had infected a normal user and pulled a message out of their sent folder, which would not have had the Approved: header. In my first post in this thread I wrote: what if there's a virus/trojan out that is able to take email that a user had already sent (email in the sent folder), and resend it with a virus payload (in this case, the beagle.ba virus above)? If it grabbed an email that the moderator had sent to the list with the Approved: password included, and just appended the virus payload, it would result in what you saw, right? Most moderators I know of don't need to use the Approved: header, because they themselves are not moderated on their own lists. But then maybe you know more moderators than I do. The ones I know that do this elect to use this method to prevent forged posts from them to their one-way (newsletter) lists. If all posts must be approved one way or another, then random forged posts (using addresses found on a victim's computer) won't get distributed to the list. But if a virus/trojan goes a step further and instead of just using address found it uses actual previously sent email, and there is saved email with the Approved: header, then that virus/trojan would be able to forge a post to the list that would have the Approved: header, and thus be distributed to the list. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virus Just Got Through on TOTALLY MODERATED list.
Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: Guys, I just had a small problem. A virus was just sent to all the list members which had spoofed the moderator's email address. No requires approval message was sent, despite the fact that everyone (even the moderator) has the mod bit set to on. http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/[EMAIL PROTECTED] OK, I'm just speculating here... what if there's a virus/trojan out that is able to take email that a user had already sent (email in the sent folder), and resend it with a virus payload (in this case, the beagle.ba virus above)? If it grabbed an email that the moderator had sent to the list with the Approved: password included, and just appended the virus payload, it would result in what you saw, right? What was the subject of the virus-laden email, was it a subject that had been previously posted to your list. soapbox This is why my lists don't allow any attachments at all. IMHO, the benefits of making it easy for people to send files to a mailing list are outweighed by the costs (when a virus gets thru). I tell posters to put the file on a server and then email a post with a link to the file. /soapbox jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] newbie question
C. Jon Hinkle wrote: I have been selected to set up a Mailman system to communicate with roughly 140 users. I have exactly zero experience with this kind of endevor, although I am not totally techno-challenged. I need to set about 30 of the users to be able to post and reply at will. The rest should be able to post and reply, but with some limits. For instance, if someone posts something useful, we don't want 130 postings back to the list saying Wow! That's cool! Given the user-level of many of the 110 with limited rights, such a scenario is well within the realm of possiblity. These are the same people who reply to a Department-wide announcement by hitting the Reply All button. In any event, I can see from the List Admin manual that I can set up moderators and they would have full rights and set the rest as users and make their replies be moderated, but having 30 moderators seems unwieldy. For instance, who would actually moderate the postings from the 110? I would set the list up like this: General options: strip reply-to: yes reply goes to: poster list moderator email addresses: add 2 or 3 moderators here Privacy options: Sender filters: By default, should new list member postings be moderated?: yes List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted.: Add any additional always accept addresses (if any of your 30 full rights members may be occasionally sending from alternate addresses) here. When you add your 110 members, set them all to moderated except for your 30 members who should have full rights, they will be set to unmoderated status. You could do this in 2 batches, set the list so that new members are not moderated and add your 30 full rights members, then set your list so that new members are moderated and add the remaining members. Then the new members going forward will also be set to moderated by default, and you can unmoderate them as needed. If I set first_strip_reply_to to YES and then set reply_goes_to_List to POSTER, the reply would go to the original poster, but not to the entire list? Is that different than setting first_strip_reply_to to NO and having the original reply-to be in force? I can set my reply-to with the list address (as I have in this email). When mailman doesn't strip the reply-to (and it doesn't on this list) replies go back to the list instead of to the poster. Of course, your typical Wow! That's cool! user isn't going to know how to do that. In either instance, how do I account for worthwhile replies that would be beneficial for the entire list to see? You need several moderators who can approve the held messages in a timely manner. I help moderate several lists (mailman-users is one of them :-) and have found that you need three or more people who check email several times a day to keep the moderated posts from piling up and to ensure that they get approved and posted (or rejected) in a timely manner. Also remember that people get busy, take vacations, etc. so any list needs *at least* two moderators if you want to ensure that held messages are processed promptly. Am I taking the wrong tack here? Is this better done with something like default_member_moderation? I could set the flag to off for the 30 and on for the rest and then set the action to Hold. Bingo. Then, if the posting/reply was worth seeing on the list, it could be approved by a single moderator, and if not then it gets rejected and the poster gets a notice. Also consider if your list will need more than one single moderator, and remember to set new members to moderated status by default - it's *much* better to change them to unmoderated after you see that they have clue than to have to set them to moderated after they have posted one or more Hey, that's cool! posts back to the whole list. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
[Mailman-Users] flood of unsubs may be heading your way
In the default mailman install, a subscription is automatically disabled when mail starts repeatedly bouncing. The subscriber is then emailed a reminder every 4 weeks telling them that they are disabled and that they can re-enable their subscription. After 5 weeks the account is removed (unsubscribed). 5 weeks ago many email boxes started to overflow with virus laden email. So if you notice a sudden flurry of unsubscribes from your mailman hosted lists, it's probably just those inactive email addresses finally being removed from your list roster, 5 weeks later. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Using VERP to avoid sobig bounces?
At 02:17 AM 9/10/2003, you wrote: If we turn on VERP, how is mail to the unqualified -bounces@ address processed? Is it ignored? At the moment we are frequently getting subscriptions disabled on the webdav.org lists (which don't use VERP) by stray SoBig bounces using a real subscriber as the return address and -bounces@ as the recipient. If you are having a problem with spam-bounces causing subscriptions to be disabled, you can work-around/solve the false-disabling-problem by changing your list's parameters for automatic subscription disabling to a higher number of bounces. It will mean that your list will email real disabled addresses a few more times before they are finally automatically disabled, but in most cases that's not a big concern. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] forwardingtest-owner@lists.first5ventura.org to another domain?
At 09:52 AM 8/29/2003, Aviram Carmi wrote: PS::REQUEST Whenever responding, please, put your response _under_ the original (previous) posting/message(s), not above them. This is the basics of Netiquette. Also, remove unneeded fragments of previous message(s), especially any commercial adverts and signatures. It's really ugly, space-wasting and hard-answerable to have all that junk nested a couple of times. Thank you. Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is top posting frowned upon? Thanks, I will try it, but right now, sendmail will not even let me send mail to it. first it refused SMTP connections, now that I commended out something in sendmail.mc (per advise I got) sendmail refuses to relay... You have a sendmail problem, it is not properly configured to relay for your mailman email. The solution will be found within sendmail, and if you don't know how to find that then you should ask on a sendmail list. It's no longer a mailman issue. I did not know that, I always put my reply at the top, so that it is easier to find/read. will put at the bottom from now own. You need to *also* snip un-needed text from the quoted material, only quote the portion you are directly replying to. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Removing authorised sender
At 10:18 AM 8/27/2003, Mike Dustan wrote: Hi All: Probably a simple answer to this one, but I can't find it. I've authorised Joe Nonmember as an authorised sender to my list. Although he's a non-member and doesn't receive postings, he can post to it without administrative intervention. Now, how do I deauthorise him? He doesn't show up in any screens that I've been able to find. You didn't say what version of Mailman, but in the latest version(s), look on your administration website to see if Joe Nonmember is listed at: Privacy Options - Sender Filters - List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. The URL for the Sender Filters page is: servername/mailman/admin/listname/privacy/sender/ HTH jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Mailman-Users] Analysis of reasons for bounce responses
At 09:30 PM 7/31/2003, Christine De La Rosa wrote: Hi Richard, Here is what I know so far, mail for most list members seem to be going through for the most part. About two weeks ago MM mass unscribed about 300 folx. Now we seem to have stablized the members but the owners of the lists are getting routinely bounced. Yahoo email address do not have a problem, aol is a major headache as is hotmail. This is a big clue that the MTA is improperly configured and is trying to deliver to the AOL and Hotmail servers messages for more recipients than those systems allow - triggering anti-spam filtering on the recipient MTA at AOL and Hotmail. The messages are then bounced. My guess is that they changed the MTA at around the same time they upgraded Mailman, and you are barking up the wrong tree to try to find the source of the problem. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] OoooOOookay.......
At 08:43 AM 8/2/2003, Glenn Sieb wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errr?? Who's whitworks.com and why are they doing a terrible job of masquerading as the owner of this list? I'm just guessing here, but I suspect someone was using the address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] for subscription to this list (just as I use [EMAIL PROTECTED] for my subscription) and then they installed Mailman at whitworks.com. In doing the installation they created the umbrella list mailman, without thinking about their subscription to this list using that same username/domain. Oops! So now their mailman-users list subscription email goes to their umbrella list instead of to the individual who subscribed. I've set them to nomail for now. jc - volunteer mailman-users list admin -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Read Only List
At 08:20 PM 7/23/2003, Ed Whitcomb wrote: Is there a way to make a read only list? Look for announcement list. I've read through the docs, but I didn't see anything about that. Also check the FAQ and archives: Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Footer message in html email
At 06:45 AM 7/16/2003, Vivek Khera wrote: JB == Jason Buscema [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JB Regardless, I still need to figure out a way to have a personalized footer JB message in an HTML message. Changing the message from HTML to plain text JB isn't an option either. In one of my businesses, we do attempt to attach a signature to the end of an HTML message. Most of the time it works just fine witho our guess as to where to insert it. When it fails, it fails miserably. I believe it has to do with how well the HTML is formed. Here's how we guess where to insert it: 1) look for /body tag. If present, insert footer HTML code just before it. 2) if not present, tack it on to the end of the message. Most of the time when this fails is when someone forgets to close a table properly. Instead of making a nice footer, it usually ends up starting a new column or something funky like that. .footer /td/tr/table/td/tr/table/td/tr/table/td/tr/table /font/font/font/b/i/ul/ol/p/p/p pFooter text will now display properly unless the body code was REALLY screwed up./p jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] more names per page in the admin lookup?
I've asked before, but had no answer: If some kind person will remind me how to change the administrative page setting so we get more than 30 names per page, it would really help. Thanks! jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] The easiest way to subscribe with a no deliverysetting?
I need to add ~80 names to a list and have these particular subscribers set to not receive email. Is there a way to do this when bulk adding? Is there a way to request this type of setting when adding if you subscribe via email? I know that I can mass add them, then go to the administrative page and change their settings one-by-one. The problem is that these names will be mixed among the ~1000 names that were already added, and I'll have to go thru them in 30 name chunks! :-( Finally, if some kind person will remind me how to change the administrative page setting so we get more than 30 names per page, it would really help. Thanks! jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Making it easy to subscribe with a nomail setting
I need to add ~80 names to a list and have these particular subscribers set to not receive email. Is there a way to do this when bulk adding? Is there a way to request this type of setting when adding if you subscribe via email? There isn't a way when subscribing one's self via the webpage. To the developers, why aren't all subscription options made available at that point, why require they subscribe then go thru more hoops to change to the settings they want? I know that I can mass add them, then go to the administrative page and change their settings one-by-one. The problem is that these names will be mixed among the ~1000 names that were already added, and I'll have to go thru them in 30 name chunks! :-( If some kind person will remind me how we change the administrative page setting so we get more than 30 names per page, it would really help. Thanks! jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] List email pre-approval
On Sat, 2003-02-22 at 21:40, Steve Sterling wrote: With Majordomo, you could pre-approve a message to the list, say from an otherwise unsubscribed user or to a moderated list. I tried with my mailman, but it treats the Approved: password first line as normal message body. Somewhere, I remember seeing that Mailman supports such things, but can't find any documentation on syntax, etc. Jon Carnes wrote: Could this be the problem: When searching for an Approve/Approved header, the first non-whitespace line of the body of the message is also checked, if the body has a MIME type of text/plain. Can your mailclient add the Approve line as a header? I suspect the problem is due to sending the message with formatted text (not MIME type text/plain) and *also* using the Approved line as the first line in the body of the message. If you need for non-subscribers to be able to send formatted posts from a client that won't allow adding an Approved header, you can just specify approved posters. The option is found under Privacy Options, Sender Filters, at: ~mailman/admin/listname/privacy/sender Then any message from one of the approved email addresses will be sent on without requiring further approval. ***Warning*** If an email virus which uses email addresses found on a victim's computer manages to grab one of these approved addresses and use it as the From and also coincidentally grabs your mailing list submission address and uses it as the To, your list will accept the virus laden email and distribute the virus to your whole list. This coincidence is not unlikely, since both addresses will be found together in the inbox or address book of your subscribers. One infected subscriber can then infect your whole list. (I have a friend who has a large newsletter list and who has been repeatedly falsely accused of spreading viruses when a virus forged her list address as the From and then sent the virus *directly* to a list subscriber (her subscribers also often know each other directly, thus one subscriber who has the list address in her address book will also have another subscriber's address in her address book too). She is sticking with the Approved header to ensure that it will be more difficult for a virus to manage to forge her approved address and send to her list submission address.) If this list is a distribution list (not a discussion list), you may want to hide the sender address, so that the automatically approved submission addresses are not disclosed to the list recepients. This is the last item under General List Personality at: ~/mailman/admin/listname/general jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List Spam Protection
Links at Momsview wrote: I currently have a VERY large ( 100k) announce only list (always moderated) running mailman 2.1 under Postfix. For performance reasons I'm considering splitting this list into 26 sublists based on the first letter of each subscriber email. I would then use an umbrella list to send to all of the sublists at once. As I understand it, unless I want to separately approve the message for the 26 sublists I need to allow at least one email address to post unmoderated on ALL of the sublists. This is very scary since spammers currently try to post on my current large list almost daily. Before you go down this road, be sure you have done everything possible in terms of selecting and configuring your outgoing mail server to handle the volume. I suspect that handling the outgoing volume will be easier and more effective when you direct your attention towards your mail server, than setting up sublists on the list server. FAQ entry 1.15 has more on this topic, and directs you to related topics: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#1.15 HTH jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Help with sending HTML mail and using externalweblinks for images
Jon Carnes wrote: BTW: Linux on the desktop helps break this invasion of privacy. My Evolution email client is set to not download images from html email. Though I can click on the email and have it download if I want it to. Mozilla does this on Windoze too (using this feature with Mozilla on both win98 and win2k) jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Bouncing Mail - How is it treated?
On 07:57 PM 9/17/02, Will Yardley wrote: Angel Gabriel wrote: I'd like to know how bouncing mail is treated, is it removed from the list? Will I be notified of each bouncing address?? How long before it's taken off the list? What about people who use web mail, can mailman tell the difference between an error because of a full mailbox, and an error because of a non existent user? The list admin will receive the bounce message(s)... The current stable version of Mailman doesn't support any sort of automatic bounce handling; I'm not sure if future versions will. I'm managing a list running under 2.0.13 which has automatic bounce handling (found at the administrative website at domain-name/mailman/admin/listname/bounces) with the following settings: Bounce Options Policies regarding systematic processing of bounce messages, to help automate recognition and handling of defunct addresses. Description Value Try to figure out error messages automatically? No Yes Minimum number of days an address has been non-fatally bad before we take action # days Minimum number of posts to the list since members first bounce before we consider removing them from the list # days Maximum number of messages your list gets in an hour. (Yes, bounce detection finds this info useful) # days Action when critical or excessive bounces are detected. Do nothing Disable and notify me Disable and DON'T notify me Remove and notify me The list I'm administrating is set as: Yes, 5, 3, 5, Disable and notify me It works as indicated above, if an address has had problems for at least 5 days, and at least 3 posts have been processed since it first had problems, the address is disabled and the admin(s) receive a notice: This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: List: listname Member: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Action: Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman wrapper post function
On 08:55 AM 10/5/01, Sandra wrote: Hello! I have mailman installed on my system, that has postfix installed as a MTA. I have two postfix configurations running on my system, one that gets mail from internet and run AMAVIS, an anti-virus and another configuration that treats local mails. Why two postfix configurations in the first place? Is there some reason that it is good to stop viruses from coming in, but not good to stop them from going out? jc (Who is appalled at the lack of *outbound* virus scanning, especially given the crappy status of many inbound scans that give false positives, which can cause big problems for a list manager who runs a list that merely discusses email viruses. I believe you should subject your internal users to your anti-virus filter effects *before* you subject outsiders who are emailing in.) p.s. Please fix your line length. Even when a send a local mail to a local list, Mailman gets the message and put it in the queue to run the anti-virus, as it is coming from INTERNET. Does anyone know how I tell to the wrapper program to post to the local queue...? -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] remove_members by other users
On 11:42 PM 10/1/01, Alain Chappuis wrote: There is a binary called remove_members in ~mailman/bin/... it can remove anyone from any list. Of course you need telnet or ssh access to the server to use it. If you need to make this possible via the web, then you will need to do some writing (or selective deleting). Yes I know, but if the distribution list is ownered by a little secretary of my office I doubt that she knows Un*x... Is there some special reason anyone needs to be able to remove users? Is there some special reason the little secretary can't just use the admin web interface to remove users when needed? It's pretty straight forward, anyone can use it with a few minute's training. jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple identical copies (100s) ad nauseum being sent as daily digest
On 11:55 PM 6/24/01, Dan and Robby Grether wrote: Dear Mailman-Users, We are again having the problem of multiple (100s) of emails coming from our mailing list. The regular emailings are working fine, but the vol 17 msg 4 of our daily digest is spewing out 100s of copies to those who were subscribed to the daily digest. I have unsubscribe everyone who was subscribed to the daily digest, but the copies keep coming. How can they be stopped? How can this problem be prevented in the future. I would rather not shut down the whole list---again---to stop them. This has been addressed here, in the archives, many times before. The reason people who have been unsubscribed still keep receiving the messages (this is a BIG tip off that the problem is NOT your mailing list software, BTW) is that Mailman is not the thing sending them.This also means that shutting down the entire list will also not be successful in stopping the problem. Mailman handed off the message correctly, once, to your MTA for delivery. The problem is in the MTA. The duplicate messages are being generated from your MTA (sendmail, qmail, etc.), which is broken, and believes for some reason, that the message it has already successfully sent hasn't really been successfully sent. The MTA will keep on sending it until you clear the offending message from the MTA queue. Similarly, the fix (to prevent this from happening in the future) will be found by changing something within your MTA, not Mailman (although, if there's HTML in the digest running your incoming email through demime before handing it to Mailman will help prevent a messed up digest with screwed up HTML from triggering the MTA's bug). Fixes vary depending on the exact problem and the particular MTA. Keep a copy of the message so you have it to show when asked, and then inquire on a list for your particular MTA. jc (posted and emailied) -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
On 06:56 AM 6/13/01, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: EG == Enriko Groen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EG Wouldn't it be good to state that Mailman is for Unix servers EG only in the beginning of the websites pages? I think it would EG bounce of a few dozen of people who subscribe to this list and EG will get disapointed anyway. And frustrated too because they EG get 70 emails or so a day and don't know how to leave the EG list. The first sentence under the Requirements, Download section of www.list.org states: Mailman currently runs only on Unix-y systems, such as Linux, Solaris, *BSD, etc. How can you do more than that? ;) Put it on the home page. In the first section. Incorporate it into either the first or second paragraphs. (Or add a third paragraph to that section.) Example A: Mailman is software to help manage electronic mail discussion lists, much like Majordomo or Smartmail. Mailman gives each mailing list a unique web page and allows users to subscribe, unsubscribe, and change their account options via email or over the web. The list manager can administer his or her list entirely via the web if desired. Mailman has most of the features that people want in a mailing list management system, including built-in archiving, mail-to-news gateways, spam filters, bounce detection, digest delivery, and so on. Runs on most Un*x-like systems, compatible with most web servers and browsers, and most SMTP servers. See the features page for more detail. Example B: Mailman is free software. It is distributed under the GNU General Public License. The canonical Mailman home page is at www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html, with more information available at www.list.org. Mailman is written in the Python programming language, with a little bit of C code for security. Runs on most Un*x-like systems, compatible with most web servers and browsers, and most SMTP servers. jc (posted and emailed) -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
On 08:44 AM 6/13/01, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 07:53 AM, JC Dill wrote: I subscribe to the teach them to fish method, I used to. Now I'm in the parents don't want justice, they want quiet mode, and I do what's fastest and easiest for me, which is usually to Which means that they will expect ME to do the same when they come to my list. And that's probably why they expect it from you too, in the first place, because some guy before you (at a previous list) also did their unsubbing for them, instead of teaching them how. At some point they *have* to learn to do this for themselves. Why are you not willing to do your part to help them learn, and leave it to the rest of us to educate them??? All it takes is a boilerplate message, apply via cut-n-paste or have it as stationary or a .sig. just unsubscribe them. I've had one too many battle with the don't talk to me about instructions, you do it school of you run this, you're my slave idiots. I think the teach them to fish mode worked in earlier days. Today, too many people feel everyone else owes them whatever they want. I don't let clueless newbies tell me what they want me to do for them. Period. Occasionally someone tries to boss me around and gets roasted for their efforts. I bet they won't try that again with the next list admin... And if it keeps them off mailing lists entirely (go use some web board then), all the better. If they don't care to learn netiquette and exhibit decent manners then mailing lists are better off without them. jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
On 08:17 AM 6/13/01, Satya wrote: On Jun 13, 2001 at 07:53, JC Dill wrote: There are too many people on the Internet these days who CAN NOT view all the message headers. AOL hides many headers. Hotmail hides many headers. Yahoo hides many headers. Even if there is some process the user Opposite of what some others want. The software that hides so many headers with no way of viewing them is broken. Yes, and AOL 6 is broken in that it doesn't (easily) let the sender send in Plain Text. If 20% of your users use AOL 6, what are you going to do? Whine that their software is broken, or install demime? Which one will be the faster fix? I'm all for griping at stupid software designers, but sometimes you need to design a solution on your end to deal with the stupid decisions made at the other end. A footer with unsub information is a damn sight better than all the ads from ad supported lists. I'm on a listbot list that I'm preparing to host just because I'm fed up with all the ads! jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman for Windows
On 02:11 PM 6/7/13, Lars T. Soeftestad wrote: Hi Mailmen/women! Have loked at Mailman, and thought it would be perfect for my use. Which is: a regular newsletter to people working on community-based natural resource management (CBNRM), mostly in developing countries, as an adjunct to the CBNRM Net portal website (http://www.cbnrm.netwww.cbnrm.net) that I operate. According to netcraft.com: The site www.cbnrm.net is running Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) mod_frontpage/3.0.4.3 on Compaq Tru64. You shouldn't have any problems running mailman on that server. Then, to my frustration, I read that Mailman is not available for Windows (98 in my case). Really sad. Question: would you know of share/freeware that does more or less the same as Mailman, and that is available for Windows? Why can't you just run mailman on the same server your website is hosted on? If this isn't allowed by your webhosting provider, I suggest moving your website to a host that does allow it, so that all of your site's services are hosted on one machine. This makes it *much* easier to keep your site up and running than having services scattered all over the place on different platforms. jc (posted and emailed) -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Vhosts with Mailman 2.05
On 11:02 PM 5/19/01, Darron Froese wrote: On 5/17/01 2:20 AM, N6REJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all. Pardon me for really sounding lame, but I'm having a heck of a time finding any documentation that explains how to modify mailman so that it will answer for vhosts also. Everything you need has been posted to the list multiple times. Apparently you assume the person is subscribed to the list, which isn't necessarily true (and if you have been subscribed for any length of time you would obviously know this because the open nature of this list has been a hot topic of discussion in the not-too-distant-past). Then you assume the person has been subscribed for long enough to have seen the question pass by, which is pretty likely to be false (or else, why ask the question at all?). Finally, if you think saying go search the list archives before posting is a good rebuttal to my 2 items above, why don't you try doing it yourself and then see if it's an answer? (Note, the search function has been fixed somewhat since I wrote this, but is still flawed in that you need specific instructions on how to search to get good results.) (And then think about how a *non-subscriber* is supposed to even know of the existence or location of the archives in the first place...) This list has a lot of traffic problems created by how people find and post to the list. The first problem is that it's regularly used in place of a FAQ because no one has made a FAQ readily available (in the way the list posting address is readily available). Solution? Link to the FAQ pages before giving out the list email address on the mailman website (give out the email address only at the bottom of a FAQ TOC page) and link to the FAQ in the readme, instead of giving out this address. jc waves her hand and offers to help compile an official FAQ if using the unofficial FAQs that already exist isn't acceptable The second problem is that the list archives are not easily or readily searchable (recently fixed, somewhat), so if the question isn't a frequently asked one, but the answer *is* somewhere in the archives, it isn't easily found, so we get the question here again. Solution? Better archive search feature. Again, link to the search the archives page first, before giving out the post to the list address. The third problem is that the software itself doesn't clearly encourage people to read the FAQs and webpages that already exist before posting to this list. For instance, the excellent website at: http://www.aurora.edu/~ckolar/mailman/ is found in the readme, but not on the mailman website, while the email address for posting to this list is found on the website, in fact it's on the website's homepage. When you install mailman you may install it in a different location from where you uncompressed it. If so, the readme will remain where you uncompressed it and NOT be included in the install directory, so you will have a harder time *finding* the readme when you are poking around in your installed mailman files looking for answers. Solution? The readme needs to be put with the install files when the program is installed, and needs to point to web-accessible solutions before giving people an email address to ask that which has already been asked, (and answered, and is readily available if we would just LINK TO IT and point people to it!). Finally, since I happen to have a local archive of posts to this list since I subscribed, I quickly searched my archive and forwarded 2 posts to the OP (including one that was written by Darron and posted to this list a few days ago) that will hopefully help get him pointed in the correct direction. See how helpful and easy that was? jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL User Posts and =20 Problem
On 12:18 PM 5/29/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When an AOL user ... versions 4,5, and 6 inclusive, posts to a pairList the immediate postings are delivered and appear normal to those users receiving in MIME or plain text formats. The digest formats are quite screwed up in that they show the AOL members' posts with =20 strings at the end of each line, then a repeat of the entire post with some HTML tags visible. I know AOL's email interpretation of HTML is half-assed at best, but this is not tolerable in its present form. These quirks hold true regardless of the setting for a given member receiving the Digest format in MIME or plain text. AOL users are not given the choice of sending plain text vs. HTML email. It sends in pseudo-HTML by default and this is unchangeable. The vast majority of subscribers to my particular list are AOL members, so this is quite a problem. A quick search of this list's archives for the word demime finds: http://search.python.org/query.html?rq=0col=listsht=0qp=qt=demimeqs=qc=pw=100%25ws=0la=qm=0st=1nh=10lk=1rf=0oq=rq=0si=1 If you didn't know about demime, you could search on remove mime and find http://search.python.org/query.html?col=listsht=0qp=qt=%22remove+mime%22qs=qc=pw=100%25ws=0qm=0st=1nh=10lk=1rf=0rq=0si=1 which has a post that references it. This should get you started. jc (posted and emailed) -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Error!!!
On 04:20 AM 5/27/01, Armando P. wrote: Hello world! I have tried to subscribe a list, but after to have received a message in order to confirm the registration, the reply he has originated this message: A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: pipe to |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd navingandoltre_strada-facendo.elios.net generated by [EMAIL PROTECTED] Child process of virtual_address_pipe transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper The following text was generated during the delivery attempt: -- |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd navingandoltre_strada-facendo.elios.net -- Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99. (Reconfigure to take 99?) Which it is the problem? This same problem was posted before, and the answer is in the mailing list archives, at: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-December/008453.html TIA Excuse me for my bad english!!! Sam _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Vhosts with Mailman 2.05
On 11:02 PM 5/19/01, Darron Froese wrote: On 5/17/01 2:20 AM, N6REJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all. Pardon me for really sounding lame, but I'm having a heck of a time finding any documentation that explains how to modify mailman so that it will answer for vhosts also. Everything you need has been posted to the list multiple times. Apparently you assume the person is subscribed to the list, which isn't necessarily true (and if you have been subscribed for any length of time you would obviously know this because the open nature of this list has been a hot topic of discussion in the not-too-distant-past). Then you assume the person has been subscribed for long enough to have seen the question pass by, which is pretty likely to be false (or else, why ask the question at all?). Finally, if you think saying go search the list archives before posting is a good rebuttal to my 2 items above, why don't you try doing it yourself and then see if it's an answer? (Note, the search function has been fixed somewhat since I wrote this, but is still flawed in that you need specific instructions on how to search to get good results.) (And then think about how a *non-subscriber* is supposed to even know of the existence or location of the archives in the first place...) This list has a lot of traffic problems created by how people find and post to the list. The first problem is that it's regularly used in place of a FAQ because no one has made a FAQ readily available (in the way the list posting address is readily available). Solution? Link to the FAQ pages before giving out the list email address on the mailman website (give out the email address only at the bottom of a FAQ TOC page) and link to the FAQ in the readme, instead of giving out this address. jc waves her hand and offers to help compile an official FAQ if using the unofficial FAQs that already exist isn't acceptable The second problem is that the list archives are not easily or readily searchable (recently fixed, somewhat), so if the question isn't a frequently asked one, but the answer *is* somewhere in the archives, it isn't easily found, so we get the question here again. Solution? Better archive search feature. Again, link to the search the archives page first, before giving out the post to the list address. The third problem is that the software itself doesn't clearly encourage people to read the FAQs and webpages that already exist before posting to this list. For instance, the excellent website at: http://www.aurora.edu/~ckolar/mailman/ is found in the readme, but not on the mailman website, while the email address for posting to this list is found on the website, in fact it's on the website's homepage. When you install mailman you may install it in a different location from where you uncompressed it. If so, the readme will remain where you uncompressed it and NOT be included in the install directory, so you will have a harder time *finding* the readme when you are poking around in your installed mailman files looking for answers. Solution? The readme needs to be put with the install files when the program is installed, and needs to point to web-accessible solutions before giving people an email address to ask that which has already been asked, (and answered, and is readily available if we would just LINK TO IT and point people to it!). Finally, since I happen to have a local archive of posts to this list since I subscribed, I quickly searched my archive and forwarded 2 posts to the OP (including one that was written by Darron and posted to this list a few days ago) that will hopefully help get him pointed in the correct direction. See how helpful and easy that was? jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this?
On 11:32 PM 5/8/01, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: It's like cough medicine. It tastes rotten going down, but long term, it makes you feel better. Sometimes, you take a little pain now for the future. This is similar to the pain mail server admins (and their associated support staff) went through when we (the Internet as a whole) had to go through the pains of closing open-relay mail servers following the spam deluge problems in the mid 90s. Closing open relays was a PITA, but it was necessary to move on to a more secure and reliable mail delivery system. Adapting to intelligent mailing list headers is a similar (although less urgent) problem. Take the high road and be one of the leaders in making these changes that are for the good of the Internet. jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Request mail problems
On 07:59 AM 4/17/01, Satya wrote: [posted and mailed] On Apr 17, 2001 at 16:10, Rob Gould wrote: Hi...When a mail subscriber sends a request to my server such as "help", the reply he/she gets begins with the message saying that "there were problems with the email commands you sent to Mailman via the administrative address...". It then continues with the requested info. I see that this only happens if the request was sent with the mail account settings set to html mail. Is there a way around this? Send the help message in plain text. Looks like mailman is responding to the junk that comes with HTML messages. Alternately, I believe you can fix this if you pipe your incoming subscription request address alias through demime to strip off the HTML before it gets to Mailman. jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Authentication using alternate headers?
On 07:58 PM 4/17/01, Ashton Treadway wrote: Hi: Is there any way to configure Mailman to authenticate posters against headers other than From:? I have a subscriber who frequently changes From: addresses, but has a consistent Reply-To: address, and Mailman is properly rejecting his posts because they originate from varying addressen. What I do (on a majordomo list) is have the person subscribe all the other "from" addresses to a companion list that is allowed to post to the main list. With Mailman, I believe you can accomplish the same thing in an easier fashion by having him subscribe his additional addresses, but set those addresses to nomail. jc (posted and emailed) -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] List configuration options, available now or not?
On 03:32 PM 3/30/01, J C Lawrence wrote: 2) Is [content filtering on the headers or body, to block messages that are in reply to an entire digest] possible with mailman? Yes, within the minor limitations of regular expressions. So, in other words, it would be trivially easy for someone using mailman to configure their list to reject a post that said: Mailman-Users digest, Vol in the subject (a header), but not so easy to reject a post that said: Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to in the body. rant I'm just not sure. I mean, if it's that easy, why hasn't THIS LIST BEEN CONFIGURED TO DO JUST THAT? /rant How do I know you aren't misleading me? If it's that easy, certainly this list would have been properly configured. I mean, letting a totally useless subject line stand in a post to be redistributed to the list is really letting your list membership down. IMHO, ever responsible list administrator MUST put in filters to ensure that posts that are submitted to their subscribers follow list rules, when filtering for such rules is an easy thing to do. A subject like "Subject: Mailman-Users digest, Vol 1 #1115 - 16 msgs" is clearly a violation of RFC 1855, if not also a violation of the list's specific rules. It really should be an automatic feature of the mailing list software, whenever you add a digest. List owners shouldn't have to do anything to trigger this, and the default behavior should be to bounce the non-compliant post back to the author with an explanation about why it's being automatically rejected (just as bounced mail gets sent back with a reason when the MTA can't deliver it). Bingo, no more problems with digest users forgetting their manners and sending entire digests back to the list, all using the useless (to the other list members) digest subject line. On 04:53 AM 3/31/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:25:05 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Mailman-Users digest, Vol 1 #1115 - 16 msgs Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.3 (101270) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=63.102.49.29.506.16634.986041441.093.10336 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:25:05 -0500 Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] trim/cut/delete (was RE:Mailman-Users digest, Vol 1 #1115 - 16 msgs)
On 06:00 AM 3/31/01, Menega Sabidussi wrote: [[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:] no followed by the complete digest, Vol 1 #1115 - 16 msgs. was this a demonstration that blocking completely quoted digests does *not* work Is there an option to block completely quoted digests? That would be sweet! My question asking if I could do anything (within mailman) to block based on Body content was answered with a NO. However, even simple subject (header) blocking should have blocked this, and the other complete digest post we received a day earlier, as well. jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
[Mailman-Users] Keeping quoted digests off the list
One of my majordomo lists also has a digest option. I have the following taboo header settings in the majordomo config file for that list: # taboo_headers[regexp_array] (undef) resend # If any of the headers matches one of these regexps, then the # message will be bounced for review. taboo_headers END /^Content-Type:.*multipart.*/i /^Content-Type:.*html.*/i /^Subject:.*listname-digest.*/i END This very effectively stops someone from clicking "reply" to their copy of the digest, quoting the whole thing, adding whatever they add, and sending the whole thing off for distribution to the whole list. Before their post is redistributed to the list, they must change the subject line, and if they remember to change the subject line my experience is that they will also remember to quote only the part that needs quoting, and to send their reply to the right address, etc. Bingo, no more entire digests being quoted and sent back out to all the list subscribers. (Also, no HTML or attachments will be allowed either, per the content-type filters, but that's a topic for another post.) If desired, one can also add a taboo_body setting and match for the digest header text that also should never be quoted back in a properly trimmed reply (see example below). That would catch the rare case (which hasn't occurred on my list yet, in over two years that I've been managing the list, with hundreds of subscribers and hundreds of posts a month) where the subject was changed, but the digest body was not properly trimmed when quoted. Yes, this sort of content filtering causes occasional posts that were intended to be sent to the list to go to the moderator for approval, and delays their distribution to the list. But all of those posts were sent in violation of the list rules (one of which is "change the subject line in your reply to the list, to the subject of the post in the digest you are replying to). My position is that when a subscriber doesn't follow the list submission rules, (as outlined at the top of every digest they receive, in the fronter material for digests on my lists), they shouldn't complain that their post didn't immediately get redistributed to the list. So... Question #1 Is this possible with mailman? Before I move my majordomo list to a new server with new mailing list software (mailman is the software I'm considering, obviously), it is a requirement that I can configure that software to do the same things I can currently easily do with majordomo. I don't want to waste my time trying to futz around with installing and configuring mailman before I learn that it won't let me do some of the critical things I need it to do. Question #2 (wait for it...) If it's possible with mailman, can it please be done to THIS LIST? observation You would think that someone who writes mailing list software would want to eagerly demonstrate how many things their software can easily do. One effective way would be to configure their software to do those very things on their own lists /observation jc On 09:59 AM 3/29/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mailman-Users] RE:Mailman-Users digest, Vol 1 #1110 - 9 msgs Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:59:25 +0100 unsubscribe snip Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Personal Trainer
On 11:03 AM 3/29/01, Phydeaux wrote: The spam is *quite* easy for a human to detect. I hereby volunteer for duty if called jc raises hand ObAOL Me to! /ObAOL jc -- Real courtesy requires human effort and understanding. Never let your machine or your habit send courtesy copies. -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: More spam :-( Was Re: [Mailman-Users] Would you like toreceive information on registering your pet online for free?
On 12:12 PM 3/27/01, Dan Mick wrote: JC Dill wrote: It sounds as if you are ignoring or overlooking my proposed solution which continues to let non-subscriber posts go through to the list unmoderated, when they contain keyword(s) indicative of an on-topic non-spam post. I would estimate that 25% of my posts contain any keyword you might have on your list. Good luck generating any sort of useful list. You are a subscriber. As such, your posts get passed through to the list before any keyword check would come into play. Further, even if a post goes to the moderator, that doesn't mean it can't be approved and sent on to the list, all you have introduced is a slight delay. Who is it that's providing this free moderation service? You? I'd much rather have to moderate and approve a few posts now and then than have the spam get through to hundreds of subscribers. It's a task I've taken on for several other lists already. It's part of doing my part to make the 'Net work. This seems an acceptable tradeoff for avoiding the spam. If someone doesn't want their post held up by a moderation process, they should subscribe, or use the appropriate keyword. I fail to see how this would hurt newbies, or cause any significant overhead (beyond software development of what will be a very useful feature :-). It's equally obvious to me that it would not serve the purpose you intend, The keyword filter software would serve the purpose intended if implemented as I suggested (specifically the part about mentioning, everywhere you give out the list submission address, that non-subscriber posts that fail to use the keyword might be held for moderation ). Times change. There once was a time when every mail server on the 'Net was an open relay and all was good. Then the green card spam hit and nothing has been the same since. There once was a time when every mailing list on the 'Net was hosted at MIT, via an alias, and to add yourself to a list you went and edited the alias file yourself. Today we have mailing list servers because that method didn't scale. There once was a time when you could run an open list and not worry about the results when non-subscribers posted to the list. I believe that this too needs to change, now or very soon. So I'm looking at how it can be changed to continue to fulfill the needs that are met with the current implementation, without causing undue problems associated with the change. and it's pretty obvious to me that it's a non-problem, in the Grand Scheme. Anti-spam measures are apparently addictive; no one can eat just one. I subscribe to the theory that one is either a part of the problem or a part of the solution. I believe that spam is an ever increasing problem. Thinking about how to keep spam away from those who don't want to receive it (pretty much everyone) and thinking about how to implement said solutions in a way that causes the fewest inconveniences to everyone else, is part of how I work to be part of the solution. jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
More spam :-( Was Re: [Mailman-Users] Would you like to receive information on registering your pet online for free?
On 06:02 PM 3/25/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Would you like to know how to register your pet online for free? No, but I'd like to know what it takes to get this list configured so it stops allowing spammers to post to it. It shouldn't be that hard for those who write mailing list software to program and configure their own "user's list" to only accept posts that are either A) from subscribers or B) have the list product (mailman) mentioned somewhere in the body of the post. The fact that this hasn't been done makes the product in question (mailman) look less attractive to those who are considering using it... jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: More spam :-(
On 09:46 AM 3/26/01, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote: JC Dill wrote: It shouldn't be that hard for those who write mailing list software to program and configure their own "user's list" to only accept posts that are either A) from subscribers or B) have the list product (mailman) mentioned somewhere in the body of the post. a) There are several automated bots that do subscriptions through a variety of list servers. Nothing will stop a post from coming through if that account is subscribed. In 3 years of list administration, including several large and active lists, I have *yet* to have a spammer subscribe (bot or no) to a list in order to send spam to it. Theoretically it is possible, but in practice I have yet to see it done. Do you have any evidence that this is what is actually happening in this case? b) It is, in the footer and the subject tag First, any given post to the list should be matched against the list subscriber role. If the post is from a subscriber, post it. If the post is from a non-subscriber, subject content filtering (such as checking to see if the message mentions "mailman") should happen before the post is approved (automatically or manually) for being distributed to the list. If a footer or list subject tag are added, that should happen after the post is approved for being distributed to the list. So the footer and subject tag should have no impact on content filtering to determine if a non-subscriber post should be distributed to the list. jc -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Re: More spam :-( Was Re: [Mailman-Users] Would you like to receive information on registering your pet online for free?
On 03:12 PM 3/26/01, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
"JCL" == J C Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JCL There is a logn standing tradition for support lists for
JCL products to not be closed to non-subscribers.
There are a couple of issues to consider, some technical, some not.
First, I think there /is/ a use for open-posting lists like
mailman-users which do not limit postings just from members. This is
a policy decision and if I change it, then I know we will lose newbies
because of the overhead.
It sounds as if you are ignoring or overlooking my proposed solution which
continues to let non-subscriber posts go through to the list unmoderated,
when they contain keyword(s) indicative of an on-topic non-spam
post. Further, even if a post goes to the moderator, that doesn't mean it
can't be approved and sent on to the list, all you have introduced is a
slight delay. This seems an acceptable tradeoff for avoiding the spam. If
someone doesn't want their post held up by a moderation process, they
should subscribe, or use the appropriate keyword.
I fail to see how this would hurt newbies, or cause any significant
overhead (beyond software development of what will be a very useful feature
:-).
I definitely don't want to lose guys like
Chuq from this list, but there's a trade-off and I figure Chuq knows
how to filter out the spam on his end (or just ignore it). Limiting
posts to members /might/ make sense for mailman-developers though.
Second, while Mailman does spam detection, spammers have mutated and
are making their way around the defenses. Easy stuff like catching
Bcc:'s and the like, we already do. How do we improve the spam
detection in Mailman next?
Institute simple and easy content filtering. If a non-subscriber post is a
legitimate post about mailman, it is most likely to say "mailman" somewhere
in the subject or body of the post (and even more likely when you tell them
to specifically do so, when you give them the list address). If so, allow
it to go to the list, if not, bounce for moderation. False positives will
approach zero (I have a folder with 400 recent spams in it, none have
"mailman" in the body), false negatives will be a small, but probably
insignificant number. For instance, some of the recent posts that weren't
in English would have bounced (to the moderator(s)), but then again most
subscribers to this list are unable to reply to those posts anyway.
Look at it another way - How do these non-subscribers find this list
address in the first place? Where they find the list address, note that
the list has instituted an anti-spam measure and so non-subscriber posts to
the list that fail to say "mailman" in the body of the message may be held
for manual approval by the moderators rather than be immediately
distributed to the list. Since we already assume that those who really
need to post (without first being subscribed) have found the list address
through that source, and understand what they get when they post here, it's
not a big stretch to also assume that if it's important to them to have
their post *immediately* sent to the list membership (without waiting for
it to be approved by a moderator), they will heed that simple notice. Not
to mention that most non-subscriber posts will automatically heed this
notice anyway, due to the nature of the topic.
Third, there are certain spam filters that the MTA can apply that
should catch more stuff. I thought that the Exim installation on
{python,zope}.org was all hooked up to RBL, etc., but since spam is
getting through, it may not be working. I'm hoping Ethan, our MTA
administrator can give more information here.
IMHO, this is something that should be handled by the mailing list software
itself, and thus the per-list "acceptable keyword" configuration would
exist in the mailing list software config files for each list (alongside
all the other per-list configuration settings). Why make it difficult by
involving the MTA? That makes this task especially difficult for those who
don't control the MTA, but do have control of their individual list config
settings (such as when an ISP hosts the mailing list software and supplies
list hosting services to their customer).
jc
--
Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
[Mailman-Users] Keeping spam off open lists
Does mailman have a configuration setting such that everyone who is subscribed to a list can post unmoderated, but email from a non-subscriber will be sent to a moderator for approval? If so, can *this* list please be appropriately configured? If you want to let non-subscribers post without moderation (a practice that I personally feel has dubious value, since their question might be answered in a post to the list, perhaps in response to someone else asking the same question, but they won't see it because they aren't subscribed), how about adding a simple filter such as if the non-subscriber's post mentions "mailman", let it through to the list unmoderated, otherwise it goes to the moderator? It shouldn't be THAT hard for someone who writes mailing list software to come up with an easy and simple way to keep spammers off their own software-users mailing list. jc On 10:08 PM 3/20/01, a spammer sent wrote: Hello, Let me just take a minute of your time 24x7 Online Chat Support must always have been a snip This is a one time mail, you need not send REMOVE / UNSUBSCRIBE information. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
