Re: [MlMt] Devonthink
Thanks, Sean, for that. What's the best way to get started with DT? It looks formidable. Howie Sean Johnson <mailto:s...@ttys0.net> September 1, 2016 at 7:19 PM I’m also a happy DEVONThink (and MailMate) user, and even more so since recently migrating from Evernote. Just wanted to mention that if you’re affiliated with a University (student, staff, faculty), there’s currently a 40% off sale through Sept 18th. I’m pretty sure I initially bought DEVONThink via one of these sales. Anyway, just wanted to drop that bit of info into the bucket. http://www.devontechnologies.com/discounts/students-and-educators.html Cheers, sean ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Jan Erik Moström <mailto:li...@mostrom.pp.se> August 29, 2016 at 4:40 AM On 26 Aug 2016, at 13:00, Jan Erik Moström wrote: I actually had to check and I bought Devonthink in 2003 and upgraded on 2006 (to the Pro Office version, don't think that was a "normal" update) and in 2015. So compared to apps like EndNote, Lightroom, etc I think it's fairly cheap. = jem ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Jan Erik Moström <mailto:li...@mostrom.pp.se> August 26, 2016 at 4:00 AM On 26 Aug 2016, at 4:32, Roger Bohn wrote: It's all a matter of what perspective you have. For mail archiving only, sure ... but if you want a place to store information in general it's one of the best apps around. Price, initial buy yes, but the upgrade fees has been pretty widely spaced ... I've probably had DT for 10-20 years (I have no idea) and think I've payed for upgrade once or twice. = jem ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Roger Bohn <mailto:r2news...@gmail.com> August 25, 2016 at 7:32 PM Devonthink is overkill - it has a lot of document management capabilities that are not needed. (And the price reflects it.) Managing PDFs, taking notes and excerpts from them, linking among documents, built-in OCR, and on and on. For about 10 years I have used EagleFiler for archiving email. It’s written by the same person who does SpamSieve, and managing giant email is one of its main use cases. $40 and well supported. https://c-command.com/eaglefiler/ I would only consider Devonthink you have OTHER uses for it. If not, check Eaglefiler. Roger On 25 Aug 2016, at 7:38, Howard Wettstein wrote: Prof. Roger Bohn Professor, School of Global Policy and Strategy UC San Diego +1 858 381-2015 cell/text Blog: Art2science.org ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Howard Wettstein <mailto:ho...@ucr.edu> August 25, 2016 at 7:38 AM I’m intrigued by comments about Devonthink. Could someone give me a brief description of the program and how it works? I don’t mean a technical account, just a short message about how to use it, what it does, etc. Or a link to where I can find such a descriptions. I’ver used Evernote for years, love it, and it seems there is overlap. Thanks. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Devonthink
I wish I could hang out for an hour with a DT user and see how it goes. Looks fascinating but complicated. Also, I've seen references to syncing it across one's machines and devices. Is it possible, easy to do this? Howie Jan Erik Moström <mailto:li...@mostrom.pp.se> August 26, 2016 at 3:54 AM On 25 Aug 2016, at 18:01, Scott Schulz wrote: Yes, it's included but you have to find a place where to store the data. I haven't checked what services they include but I'm using Dropbox. = jem ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Scott Schulz <mailto:swsch...@astrum.com> August 25, 2016 at 9:01 AM On 25 Aug 2016, at 11:46, Jan Erik Moström wrote: Thanks for the review. In DT, is the sync functionality included with the application? That is, if I buy a version, will it sync to other copies of that without an additional fee? I am a longterm EN user, but with their recent price increases, I am considering a move to OneNote or Notes (and now DT). S ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Jan Erik Moström <mailto:li...@mostrom.pp.se> August 25, 2016 at 8:46 AM On 25 Aug 2016, at 16:38, Howard Wettstein wrote: Devonthink is similar to Evernote in that you can store notes, pdfs, etc in a database. But Devonthink takes a different approach than Evernote. Evernote is an online service (at least if you want to take full advantage of the available features) that has clients on a large number of platforms. EN stores notes etc in HTML format but it can also "embed" files, photos, etc in those pages. The OCR is pretty, organization and searching is average, there is good support from various other apps/services to use EN. From my point of view I think it works best as a capture device for web pages - I don't like it very much from a note taking view (the formatting is also troublesome when working on different platforms). Biggest problem for me is that it modifies plain text files when they are stored as notes (tabs etc are removed since the text is stored as HTML), also no Markdown support. Devonthink on the other hand is a "local app", i.e. there is no cloud where you store the data instead everything lives on your Mac (more about this later). You can create any number of databases, you can organize each database as you like - for example in a hierarchical fashion (folders within folders). You can store almost any kind of data in its original form - so a text file stays a text file, a word file is a word file. Actually, you can tell Devonthink to index files /outside/ the database which means that you can leave your Word files as normal files in a folder somewhere on your harddisk but DT will index them and make them searchable from within DT. DT also contains a web browser, a very powerful search engine, some "AI" to help you categorize and find material, etc. It also supports templates and is highly scriptable/extensible. Evernote have had the convenience advantage because of the syncing and the availability on many platforms while DT has pretty much won everything else except OCR (EN is more convenient). They both have user interfaces that be considered ... "rough". EN has an almost flat "learning curve" while DT will surprise you for years you with functionality that you didn't know existed. I've used both on-and-off for a long time. And until this summer Evernote has won because of the convenience aspect, but this summer Devon Technologies released a new syncing engine together with a new iOS client ... which makes a huge difference. The convenience advantage is now gone for Evernote (I'm all macOS/iOS) so I'm now moving my important stuff to DT - will probably continue to use EN for sharing documents etc within the family but otherwise I'm going to DT. = jem ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Howard Wettstein <mailto:ho...@ucr.edu> August 25, 2016 at 7:38 AM I’m intrigued by comments about Devonthink. Could someone give me a brief description of the program and how it works? I don’t mean a technical account, just a short message about how to use it, what it does, etc. Or a link to where I can find such a descriptions. I’ver used Evernote for years, love it, and it seems there is overlap. Thanks. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] Devonthink
I’m intrigued by comments about Devonthink. Could someone give me a brief description of the program and how it works? I don’t mean a technical account, just a short message about how to use it, what it does, etc. Or a link to where I can find such a descriptions. I’ver used Evernote for years, love it, and it seems there is overlap. Thanks. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] 2 questions
1. When I look through older correspondences the attachments are sometimes missing. I can find my replies and, scrolling down, the original received message, but the attachment is not there. Is there a way to retrieve it? Why isn’t it there. 2. I don’t seem to be using the 2.0 beta. How does one get it? Thanks. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] forwarding photo
I got an email with a photo included. When I tried to forward it, the photo was not included. No idea why? Thanks for ideas. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Send Message button fails
Several buttons were affected, but I fixed some of it by reloading from Customize Toolbar. But Reply All is not responding at all. Thanks. Howie On 5 Aug 2016, at 13:45, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 5 Aug 2016, at 6:08, Howard Wettstein wrote: My reply button has stopped functioning. Howie On 4 Aug 2016, at 19:47, Harvey Leff wrote: In my Version 2.0BETA (6043), clicking on the Send Message button has no effect. Fortunately, using the menu bar, Message/Send works. So does the key command COMMAND-RETURN. Has anyone else experienced this? I've been making a lot of toolbar related changes which means that there is the potential for the introduction of a bug, but I cannot reproduce what you describe. Could you also try the latest test release (hold down ⌥ when clicking “Check Now”) to make sure we are on the same page. Then try again. Also, do all buttons fail or is it only some of them? -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Send Message button fails
My reply button has stopped functioning. Howie On 4 Aug 2016, at 19:47, Harvey Leff wrote: In my Version 2.0BETA (6043), clicking on the Send Message button has no effect. Fortunately, using the menu bar, Message/Send works. So does the key command COMMAND-RETURN. Has anyone else experienced this? ~ ~ ~ Harvey S. Leff Portland, Oregon USA___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] enhancement, I think
Thanks. Howie On 24 Jul 2016, at 23:04, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote: On 24 Jul 2016, at 17:46, Howard Wettstein wrote: I meant: what will this accomplish vis-a-vis getting the same stuff on the target machine. Will (source machine’s) smart mailboxes now show up? If not, what does this accomplish? One of the files are: ``` Mailboxes.plist (smart mailboxes and various mailbox related settings) ``` So yes, smart mailboxes will show up on the new mailmate you run on the machine you copy these files too. About what it does: it simply copies the configuration files mailmate uses and thus you avoid having to manually setup things. /max Howie On 24 Jul 2016, at 8:43, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 24 Jul 2016, at 17:38, Howard Wettstein wrote: No rush on this, but remind me what gets copied by copying these files. What will show up on the target machine? Mailboxes.plist (smart mailboxes and various mailbox related settings) Tags.plist (tag names and their mappings to IMAP keywords) Signatures.plist Sources.plist (IMAP related settings) Submission.plist (SMTP related settings) Identities.plist (email identities, that is, names and email addresses/patterns) The last 3 files should always be copied together. All files are readable plain text. -- Benny (On vacation, please be patient.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate /max http://about.me/maxandersen___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] enhancement, I think
yes, thanks. Enjoy. Howie On 24 Jul 2016, at 8:50, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 24 Jul 2016, at 17:46, Howard Wettstein wrote: I meant: what will this accomplish vis-a-vis getting the same stuff on the target machine. Will (source machine’s) smart mailboxes now show up? If not, what does this accomplish? Mailboxes.plist (smart mailboxes and various mailbox related settings) Yes, as noted, smart mailboxes are part of this file. When launching MailMate on the destination machine then they should show up. But there is no synchronization involved here. If you change anything on 1 machine then it's not reflected on the other machine. In other words, this is a manual way to move some settings from 1 machine to another machine. I hope that answers your question. -- Benny (On vacation, please be patient.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] enhancement, I think
I meant: what will this accomplish vis-a-vis getting the same stuff on the target machine. Will (source machine’s) smart mailboxes now show up? If not, what does this accomplish? Howie On 24 Jul 2016, at 8:43, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 24 Jul 2016, at 17:38, Howard Wettstein wrote: No rush on this, but remind me what gets copied by copying these files. What will show up on the target machine? Mailboxes.plist (smart mailboxes and various mailbox related settings) Tags.plist (tag names and their mappings to IMAP keywords) Signatures.plist Sources.plist (IMAP related settings) Submission.plist (SMTP related settings) Identities.plist (email identities, that is, names and email addresses/patterns) The last 3 files should always be copied together. All files are readable plain text. -- Benny (On vacation, please be patient.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] enhancement, I think
No rush on this, but remind me what gets copied by copying these files. What will show up on the target machine? Happy vacation I hope. Howie On 24 Jul 2016, at 8:26, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 22 Jul 2016, at 6:20, Volker Kopetzky wrote: +1 for the export/import user story. From my side that would suffice: This is already possible although a manual process. Simply quit MailMate on both source and target machine and copy these files: ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist (smart mailboxes and various mailbox related settings) ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Tags.plist ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Signatures.plist The files named `Sources/Submission/Identities` can also be copied if starting from scratch on the destination machine. -- Benny (On vacation, please be patient.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] enhancement, I think
I’d like to run MM on my 3 machines: home, office and laptop. As I configure increasingly many smart folders on my home (main) machine , it becomes a headache to reconfigure to other two to match. It would be great if there was a way to update the other machines. Thanks. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] addresses
Thanks. It’s high on my list of minor concerns…. The other thing for me is learning how to take advantage of all the drop-downs/smart folders Thanks. Howie On 9 Jul 2016, at 13:19, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 9 Jul 2016, at 0:49, Bill Cole wrote: 1. When I insert an address, all subsequent emails have that address appended. But I often don’t want an address at all. Is there a way to automatically turn it off after each use? Sadly, no. This is a function that Benny seems quite fond of, although I have never known anyone else whose use of email signatures actually fits the way it works. By default, you get the signature you last used on email to the person that you are mailing. For what it's worth I do have some signature options high on my list, including disabling the current system. 2. Placement. I want my address to appear after my message and before the quoted message that’s below. Is there a way to set it up this way. I believe that is what the "Top" option in the Signatures pane of MailMate's Preferences does. And in that case also click on “Reset Usage History” to make sure that MailMate does not remember something else for individual recipients. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] addresses
Two problems. 1. When I insert an address, all subsequent emails have that address appended. But I often don’t want an address at all. Is there a way to automatically turn it off after each use? 2. Placement. I want my address to appear after my message and before the quoted message that’s below. Is there a way to set it up this way. Thanks. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Apologies in advance...
Enjoy. Looks fantastic. On 6 Jul 2016, at 15:09, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: Hi MailMate users, the next 3 weeks I'm not going to be working much. I expect to be online regularly and I'll deal with any urgent issues as soon as I can, but if you experience any unreasonable delays then I apologize in advance. For those interested, I'll be on [this island](https://goo.gl/maps/uGUDU3utSUG2) most of the time. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Submailbox naming
Is it possible to delete a single sub-smart-mailbox? On 3 Jul 2016, at 10:17, John D. Muccigrosso wrote: I’m trying to name sub mailboxes to a smart mailbox by the account name. The default os source.path results in several with the same name “INBOX”, which of course isn’t very helpful. What’s the magic word to use here (if there is one)? TIA. John ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] archiving folders
Is it possible to archive folders? ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] deleting junk
I get lots of it and often a quick look is all that it takes to see it’s all junk. Is there a command to delete and mark as read in one shot? Is there a permanently delete command? Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] view header
Sometimes my messages display with headers including the sending address, etc. Sometimes thats missing. How do I set MM so that I can always see it? ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] view header
Sometimes my messages display with headers including the sending address, etc. Sometimes thats missing. How do I set MM so that I can always see it? ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] help with smart folders
I want to work on mastering this. It’s obviously very powerful. but I don’t understand the various options in the drop down lists. I take it that a lot this is standard jargon. Is there a place I can look for a sort of translation manual, an explanation of the jargon? I don’t mean “in Mailmate” or its manual. I mean in general. Thanks. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] different markup language plugin?
We appreciate the thinking out loud, even when we don’t know enough of the technical material to fully follow. Howie On 26 Jun 2016, at 7:47, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 26 Jun 2016, at 12:44, Charlie Allom wrote: Can I replace Markdown with a self-made plugin for another markup language? Just the same output styles is sufficient. You can, but you shouldn't. Markdown is perfect for emails since it is based on email tradition. In other words, even if Markdown is not converted to HTML then it's (mostly) readable. MailMate marks outgoing emails as being based on Markdown and MailMate itself uses this to be smarter when replying/forwarding such emails. It would be quite bad if something is marked as Markdown when it isn't. Technically, MailMate currently heavily relies on exactly how the Markdown is generated, but this could probably be solved. When/if it is then I could probably allow custom Markdown converters or even other markup languages. It's not at the top of my list though. Slightly off topic, I'm strongly considering switching from `sundown` to `CommonMark`, but the latter does not support any kind of tables. I'll be interested if anyone has a solution to this problem. It might actually be best if MailMate handles it similarly to how it handles math and syntax highlighted segments. In other words, HTML table generation could be handled separately from the Markdown conversion (also allowing more than 1 table format). Well, just thinking out loud. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Alternate row colors
You need to toggle the setting to make it work. Not sure why. Howard Wettstein On 26 Jun 2016, at 7:32, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 26 Jun 2016, at 3:47, Harvey Leff wrote: In Preferences/Viewer, I have checked "Alternate row colors" for the message outline, but no colors show in the message list. Is there another setting that must be turned on to get colors? Thanks. No, that should work and it should update immediately when toggling THE setting. It looks like this on OS X 10.11:  -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] quoted and unquoted body text
In specifying “Conditions” for smart mailboxes, what’s this distinction: quoted and unquoted body text? Thanks. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] installing on 2nd computer
Is this the equivalent of simply copying the directory from one computer to the other? On 13 May 2016, at 17:33, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: I'm pretty sure it's Library/Application Support/MailMate. Open a terminal window on the machine with the good MailMate setup. Then do this: rsync -avH 'Library/Application Support/MailMate' othermachine.local:'Library/Application Support' where you replace 'othermachine' by the name of the destination computer. If it includes any blanks, enclose it in quotes per the above. On 13 May 2016, at 20:22, Howard Wettstein wrote: Or maybe just tell me what are the files or directories to sync. Thanks. Howie On May 13, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Steven M. Bellovin <s...@cs.columbia.edu> wrote: I cheated. I exited MailMate, and rsync'd the proper directories over... On 13 May 2016, at 18:51, Howard Wettstein wrote: How do you install Mailmate on a 2nd computer (going overseas with laptop) so that it’s just like on one’s main computer? Howie Thanks. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] installing on 2nd computer
Thanks a lot. None of this is trivial for me. Question about “othermachine.local”: is “local” the actual word? How does rsync work? I’ve never done this. On 13 May 2016, at 17:33, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: I'm pretty sure it's Library/Application Support/MailMate. Open a terminal window on the machine with the good MailMate setup. Then do this: rsync -avH 'Library/Application Support/MailMate' othermachine.local:'Library/Application Support' where you replace 'othermachine' by the name of the destination computer. If it includes any blanks, enclose it in quotes per the above. On 13 May 2016, at 20:22, Howard Wettstein wrote: Or maybe just tell me what are the files or directories to sync. Thanks. Howie On May 13, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Steven M. Bellovin <s...@cs.columbia.edu> wrote: I cheated. I exited MailMate, and rsync'd the proper directories over... On 13 May 2016, at 18:51, Howard Wettstein wrote: How do you install Mailmate on a 2nd computer (going overseas with laptop) so that it’s just like on one’s main computer? Howie Thanks. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] installing on 2nd computer
Or maybe just tell me what are the files or directories to sync. Thanks. Howie > On May 13, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Steven M. Bellovin <s...@cs.columbia.edu> wrote: > > I cheated. I exited MailMate, and rsync'd the proper directories over... > > On 13 May 2016, at 18:51, Howard Wettstein wrote: > >> How do you install Mailmate on a 2nd computer (going overseas with laptop) >> so that it’s just like on one’s main computer? >> Howie >> Thanks. >> ___ >> mailmate mailing list >> mailmate@lists.freron.com >> https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate > > > >--Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb > > > ___ > mailmate mailing list > mailmate@lists.freron.com > https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] installing on 2nd computer
If possible, please explain. No idea how to do that. Howie On 13 May 2016, at 16:00, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: I cheated. I exited MailMate, and rsync'd the proper directories over... On 13 May 2016, at 18:51, Howard Wettstein wrote: How do you install Mailmate on a 2nd computer (going overseas with laptop) so that it’s just like on one’s main computer? Howie Thanks. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] installing on 2nd computer
How do you install Mailmate on a 2nd computer (going overseas with laptop) so that it’s just like on one’s main computer? Howie Thanks. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Urgent: inbox discrepancy
No idea if this adds anything, but I’m noticing (again) more emails in my Apple Mail inbox that I’ve deleted from Mailmate, which means that it’s not syncronizing again. Howie On 12 May 2016, at 23:37, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 13 May 2016, at 1:51, Howard Wettstein wrote: But something is still strange: The Ucr/Google under SOURCES is still always spinning. And also there are still those “failed” attempts to delete folders. That has not changed. I believe all of your problems are related to the issue you had with moving a hierarchy of mailboxes. I'll contact you off list when I've had time to review the data you sent me. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Urgent: inbox discrepancy
Thank you very much for your attention to this. It’s much appreciated. Howie On 12 May 2016, at 23:37, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 13 May 2016, at 1:51, Howard Wettstein wrote: But something is still strange: The Ucr/Google under SOURCES is still always spinning. And also there are still those “failed” attempts to delete folders. That has not changed. I believe all of your problems are related to the issue you had with moving a hierarchy of mailboxes. I'll contact you off list when I've had time to review the data you sent me. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Urgent: inbox discrepancy
I think I did it right or sort of. I took all folders offline and then put the INBOX on line. No change noted. The Ucr/Google (the main account) under SOURCES is still spinning all the time. When all folders were visible, I noted a few that were in red with the indication “(failed)” next to the title. These behaved strangely, sometimes sort of resisting going offline or back online. On 12 May 2016, at 8:55, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 12 May 2016, at 16:38, Howard Wettstein wrote: I’l work on it later this am. Meanwhile, Apple Mail shows not 138 messages as you saw, but rather 583 messages in the inbox, with 420 unread. This is strange, but the goal is still to make MailMate show 138 messages, because that's what's in the account. I don't know why Apple Mail would show more than that. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Urgent: inbox discrepancy
Tried to do it, but probably didn’t do it right. When I expand and then take offline, does this pertain to the two sources at the top: Ucr/Google, and [Gmail] ?? Or just to the actual folders and sub-folders? On 12 May 2016, at 2:58, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 11 May 2016, at 22:43, Howard Wettstein wrote: Benny, Thanks for your attention to this. I did check; found a message in the Inbox of Apple Mail. I had previously moved it to a folder using Mailmate. The logs show that there really is 138 messages in the INBOX. This means the problem is likely to be MailMate (since it only shows you 5 messages). and I checked and found it in the right folder. I assume you checked in MailMate. If you enable the UID column (View ▸ Columns) then I would expect that this message has no UID. This means that the move has not been completed (synchronized with the server). So Mailmate moved it properly. Not really :( We need to figure out why MailMate does not complete the move. I can see that Gmail throttles your traffic. This indicates some kind of looping behavior — maybe related to a very large number of mailboxes. It also means that you have persistent spinners in the mailbox list. I suggest you take most of your mailboxes offline in the account (again to simplify the issue). Hold down ⌥ when you expand the Gmail account under SOURCES to expand the entire hierarchy. Then use ⇧ to select all of the mailboxes in the account and then use “Mailbox ▸ Take Offline”. Finally, take the INBOX online and maybe the destination mailbox of the moved message. Then wait to see if this synchronizes (spinners stop and the message gets a UID). Oh, and don't send your logs to the list. They could contain sensitive data (mailbox names, email addresses, etc.). I hope this wasn't too unclear. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Urgent: inbox discrepancy
Just noticed: under SOURCES, the Ucr/Google account, which is what we have been discussing is a persistent spinner, not the folders under UCR/Google, but Ucr/Google itself. On 12 May 2016, at 2:58, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 11 May 2016, at 22:43, Howard Wettstein wrote: Benny, Thanks for your attention to this. I did check; found a message in the Inbox of Apple Mail. I had previously moved it to a folder using Mailmate. The logs show that there really is 138 messages in the INBOX. This means the problem is likely to be MailMate (since it only shows you 5 messages). and I checked and found it in the right folder. I assume you checked in MailMate. If you enable the UID column (View ▸ Columns) then I would expect that this message has no UID. This means that the move has not been completed (synchronized with the server). So Mailmate moved it properly. Not really :( We need to figure out why MailMate does not complete the move. I can see that Gmail throttles your traffic. This indicates some kind of looping behavior — maybe related to a very large number of mailboxes. It also means that you have persistent spinners in the mailbox list. I suggest you take most of your mailboxes offline in the account (again to simplify the issue). Hold down ⌥ when you expand the Gmail account under SOURCES to expand the entire hierarchy. Then use ⇧ to select all of the mailboxes in the account and then use “Mailbox ▸ Take Offline”. Finally, take the INBOX online and maybe the destination mailbox of the moved message. Then wait to see if this synchronizes (spinners stop and the message gets a UID). Oh, and don't send your logs to the list. They could contain sensitive data (mailbox names, email addresses, etc.). I hope this wasn't too unclear. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Urgent: inbox discrepancy
I’l work on it later this am. Meanwhile, Apple Mail shows not 138 messages as you saw, but rather 583 messages in the inbox, with 420 unread. Howie On 12 May 2016, at 2:58, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 11 May 2016, at 22:43, Howard Wettstein wrote: Benny, Thanks for your attention to this. I did check; found a message in the Inbox of Apple Mail. I had previously moved it to a folder using Mailmate. The logs show that there really is 138 messages in the INBOX. This means the problem is likely to be MailMate (since it only shows you 5 messages). and I checked and found it in the right folder. I assume you checked in MailMate. If you enable the UID column (View ▸ Columns) then I would expect that this message has no UID. This means that the move has not been completed (synchronized with the server). So Mailmate moved it properly. Not really :( We need to figure out why MailMate does not complete the move. I can see that Gmail throttles your traffic. This indicates some kind of looping behavior — maybe related to a very large number of mailboxes. It also means that you have persistent spinners in the mailbox list. I suggest you take most of your mailboxes offline in the account (again to simplify the issue). Hold down ⌥ when you expand the Gmail account under SOURCES to expand the entire hierarchy. Then use ⇧ to select all of the mailboxes in the account and then use “Mailbox ▸ Take Offline”. Finally, take the INBOX online and maybe the destination mailbox of the moved message. Then wait to see if this synchronizes (spinners stop and the message gets a UID). Oh, and don't send your logs to the list. They could contain sensitive data (mailbox names, email addresses, etc.). I hope this wasn't too unclear. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] MailMate connection logs
Here’s the file you requested, Benny. My system: MailMate/5234 iMac17,1/x86_64/4/10.11.4 mailmate_logs.tar.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Urgent: inbox discrepancy
Thanks Benny. But I'm not sure what you mean. You want me to find a single message in another mailbox. You mean? A message that I had moved to another mailbox?. That I should see if it's really there? Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2016, at 10:31 AM, Benny Kjær Nielsen <mailingl...@freron.com> > wrote: > > On 11 May 2016, at 18:27, Howard Wettstein wrote: > > They are all online I think. They are not in bold; the only one in bold is > INBOX. Actually I’m not sure why inbox is in that list of sources. > > It's bold because it's in the so-called IMAP IDLE state. This means that new > messages should be detected immediately. It's also under SOURCES because > MailMate shows all mailboxes of all accounts even if they are part of a > universal mailbox. Some day I might get around to making this configurable. > > Try narrowing down the issue to a single message. Try to see if you can find > this message in another mailbox in MailMate. > > (Also, make sure that the other clients also use IMAP and not POP3.) > > -- > Benny > > ___ > mailmate mailing list > mailmate@lists.freron.com > https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Urgent: inbox discrepancy
They are all online I think. They are not in bold; the only one in bold is **INBOX**. Actually I’m not sure why inbox is in that list of sources. On 11 May 2016, at 8:38, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 11 May 2016, at 17:28, Howard Wettstein wrote: Urgent only because I’m leaving for overseas this weekend and my mail is going nuts. Thanks. My inbox in Mailmate has 6 items which seems right; but on my iPhone and Apple Mail there are hundreds in the inbox. I thought something was going wrong with my iPhone but then I checked Apple Mail and saw that they were the same. Any idea what’s going on? It could be incomplete moves out of your Inbox in MailMate. This could happen if the destination mailbox is not online (or hasn't finished synchronizing for some reason). Check under SOURCES in the mailbox list that all mailboxes in the account are online (not greyed out). -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Error message
Relining does not help. Here’s the situation and the sequence of steps: I have lots of folders and subfolders; it’s a gmail account but through my university and the address is ho...@ucr.edu I had been using Apple Mail, but I much prefer your program. I’m just learning as I go. Sequence of steps: for some reason, a first level folder (with lots of subfolders) got moved and I found this first level folder and all it’s contents as a subfolder of another folder. So I tried to move the whole thing to be where it belongs, as a first level folder. I did it by drag and drop and the stuff (all or certainly most of it) did move, but I can’t delete what remains as an extensive sub-folder. I can’t imagine that this is clear. Anyway, I’m happy to explain further. Howie On 7 May 2016, at 0:33, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 6 May 2016, at 22:48, Howard Wettstein wrote: MailMate encountered the following error: “Server response: “N5 NO [NONEXISTENT] Unknown folder. (Failure) [THROTTLED]”. Command attempted: “N5 DELETE "Philosophy: People/Professional/OLD"”.”. Mailbox: “Philosophy: People/Professional/OLD”. I’m trying to move a misplaced folder to a better location. It’s mostly done but the old one won’t delete. The above is the error message. It looks like it's already deleted, but for some reason MailMate does not know this. Relaunching might clear this up, but if it doesn't then I'd like to debug the issue. (Ideally, I'd like a sequence of steps which reproduces the issue, but that might be tricky since I suspect race conditions could be involved.) There's a (possibly) separate issue. The `[THROTTLED]` part of the response means that there has been more traffic between you and the server than Google allows. This should only happen when initially synchronizing a large account. Otherwise, it's a sign that something is “looping”. Is it a large account in terms of the number of messages and/or an account with a large number of mailboxes? -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] Error message
MailMate encountered the following error: “Server response: “N5 NO [NONEXISTENT] Unknown folder. (Failure) [THROTTLED]”. Command attempted: “N5 DELETE "Philosophy: People/Professional/OLD"”.”. Mailbox: “Philosophy: People/Professional/OLD”. I’m trying to move a misplaced folder to a better location. It’s mostly done but the old one won’t delete. The above is the error message. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] placement of signature
I’m having trouble with signatures. For one thing, I’d prefer a default of no signature, but I’m not sure how to set that. Second, I want the signature right after the body of my message and before the earlier messages. Ditto about how to set that. Thanks. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] rule: to move from inbox to folder
Thanks. Very helpful. On 27 Apr 2016, at 2:43, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 27 Apr 2016, at 4:25, Howard Wettstein wrote: Can I set a rule for my inbox, to move anything from, say Amazon, to an Amazon folder I have set up in Gmail? Yes. Select the Inbox and then “Mailbox ▸ Edit Mailbox...”. Switch to the Rules pane and click on + to add a rule. But if you have multiple devices and it's a simple rule (not requiring advanced MailMate features) then you should setup a [filter](https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6579?hl=en) in Gmail instead. That way it happens server-side and works on all of your devices. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] rule: to move from inbox to folder
Can I set a rule for my inbox, to move anything from, say Amazon, to an Amazon folder I have set up in Gmail? ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Spam Sieve
The gmail filter seems fine. Thanks. Howie On 26 Apr 2016, at 19:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: Are you satisfied with Google's spam filter? If so, there's no need for another. SpamSieve works well for me, though it has some problem with false positives on frequently impersonated domains, e.g., Amazon. Any time I buy something, I look first in my spam folder for the confirmation email... On 26 Apr 2016, at 21:33, Howard Wettstein wrote: But I’m using gmail. Do I also need spam sieve? On 26 Apr 2016, at 18:25, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 26 Apr 2016, at 21:18, Howard Wettstein wrote: I’m new to Mailmate. Is Spam Sieve part of this program or do I need to subscribe to Spam Sieve to get its benefits? Howie You need to buy and install it separately, then activate it within MailMate. --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Spam Sieve
But I’m using gmail. Do I also need spam sieve? On 26 Apr 2016, at 18:25, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 26 Apr 2016, at 21:18, Howard Wettstein wrote: I’m new to Mailmate. Is Spam Sieve part of this program or do I need to subscribe to Spam Sieve to get its benefits? Howie You need to buy and install it separately, then activate it within MailMate. --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] Spam Sieve
I’m new to Mailmate. Is Spam Sieve part of this program or do I need to subscribe to Spam Sieve to get its benefits? Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Josh Fishburn's message of 4/23
What is Fastmail? Do you use it instead of or in conjunction with MailMate? I just looked at the website for FastMail and it looks very clean and maybe simple. Any information appreciated. Howie On 23 Apr 2016, at 12:48, Josh Fishburn wrote: Hello, I use FastMail, which I have set to do its own saving of sent mail. Is there a way to turn this behavior off in MailMate for my "Sent Items" folder so that I don't get duplicates of every sent message in there? I'd rather let FastMail's servers handle this. Thanks in advance, Josh ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] new user help
Frederick (or others): Thanks for the replies. I’m back working at this. 1. The “rules” work when a message enters a mailbox. What might you want to do at that point. I mean what’s a possible use(s)of a rule? 2. What is the utility of the subfolders tab in smart mail? 3. In this message I’m currently typing, There is a yellow bar at the top: “Markdown syntax detected…” What’s that about? 4. How can I insert italics in a message? I obviously don’t know anything about Markdown. Thanks a million. Howie On 21 Apr 2016, at 5:39, Fredrik Jonsson wrote: Howard Wettstein 2016-04-21 19:59 wrote: Can you say a little bit to get me started on smart folders? How to use the 4 tabs: Only the first two tabs are needed, the other two are optional. Mailboxes: In what mailbox(s) do you want to search. In most cases it will be "All messages" Conditions: This is the search(es) you want to do. I have e.g. a few that search for Any Address > Domain is "example.com". This will create a smart folder that shows all mails to and from the domain "example.com". You also have a pretty good manual at <https://manual.mailmate-app.com/> with a lot more info. Fredrik ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] syntax in smart folders editor
Bingo. No idea. On 22 Apr 2016, at 10:17, John Cooper wrote: Howard Wettstein wrote (at 22:53 on 21 Apr 2016): I’m trying to set up smart folders but find some of the syntax )(a lot of it) hard to follow, I mean in the drop-down lists. Is there someplace I can find more or less detailed explanations? This bothers me a lot, too. So much power, and so little information! I'm a pretty good reference sleuth, but I don't know how to even begin to decipher these, among many others: Source > Path > Noinbox Date > » Local > Formatted [why the chevrons? Formatted how?] Subject > Blob Any Address > » Identity [or » Correspondent] > User > Notag ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] syntax in smart folders editor
I’m trying to set up smart folders but find some of the syntax )(a lot of it) hard to follow, I mean in the drop-down lists. Is there someplace I can find more or less detailed explanations? Thanks very much. Howie ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] new user help
Very helpful. Thanks very much. Can you say a little bit to get me started on smart folders? How to use the 4 tabs: Mailboxes, Conditions, Submailboxes, Rules? On 20 Apr 2016, at 23:45, Fredrik Jonsson wrote: Howard Wettstein 2016-04-21 15:33 wrote: The yellow box: Blocked 1 external reference. I’m sure it’s a security thing but I’m not sure what or how. What’s that about? Is there a way to turn it off. Yes it's a security thing, go to "Preferences… -> Security" and there you have the image blocking settings. Apple Mail and Postbox (I’ve used them) support rules, so that one can move inbox messages to pre-assigned folders. I don’t see how to do that, except with smart folders that I’ll mention in a minute. In MailMate you set them per mailbox. Right click e.g. the "Inbox" and select "Edit mailbox". Last tab is "Rules". Rules are only run on mail as they are added to a mailbox. In other mail clients I used a lot of rules, in MailMate I almost only use the smart folders instead. Smart folders seem very useful, but I don’t know what I’m doing. I have a pretty elaborate folder structure that was imported from a university gmail account that I was using through Apple Mail. Smart folders are saved searches and they are really smart and really fast. I file away everything in "Archive" and use smart folders to bring order. I prefer them from normal folders since I can have mail shop up in multiple smart folders. A mail can e.g. shop up in a company smart folder and a project smart folder at the same time. With smart folders it' also easy to make changes without needing to move any messages. Fredrik ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] new user help
Hi Gary, Thanks very much for the reply. I’ve got it going, better than I feared. It’s got all my folders laid out correctly. I’m collecting mail and able to move messages to the appropriate folders. Here are some questions and areas I could use help with. Whatever you have time for is fine. 1. The yellow box: Blocked 1 external reference. I’m sure it’s a security thing but I’m not sure what or how. What’s that about? Is there a way to turn it off. 2. Apple Mail and Postbox (I’ve used them) support rules, so that one can move inbox messages to pre-assigned folders. I don’t see how to do that, except with smart folders that I’ll mention in a minute. 3. Smart folders seem very useful, but I don’t know what I’m doing. I have a pretty elaborate folder structure that was imported from a university gmail account that I was using through Apple Mail. How do smart folders improve on this. I’m sure they do; but I don’t quite get it. Also, in smart folders I don’t understand what each of the settings is all about folders, conditions, rules, etc. 4. I also don’t get tags — I use them in Evernote but not sure what they add here, esp. with smart folders available. 5. Simpler I think: how do I italicize a phrase in composing an email. I see that I type in sort of raw form and it’s duplicated in a nice font below. But how to I get that font to be bold or italics, etc.? Thanks for any hints on how to proceed. Howie On 20 Apr 2016, at 18:07, Gary Hull wrote: On 20 Apr 2016, at 13:44, Howard Wettstein wrote: Just beginning and not familiar enough with sophisticated software to follow a good deal of the help files. Is there some sort of introduction or tutorial that will help me get started? Are you stuck on any particular thing? Have you got MailMate downloading your email from your accounts yet? ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] new user help
Just beginning and not familiar enough with sophisticated software to follow a good deal of the help files. Is there some sort of introduction or tutorial that will help me get started? ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
