RE: VIRGIL: cheap Latin Virgil: is there anything in print?
What about printing the text from the Latin Library? Not sure how many pages you would need, but you could have them download and print the text. I'm thinking it is fairly close to the OCT text, but I've never done a thorough check on this. Not sure on copyright, but if you asked the students to print their own copy- they could go to the library, get the pages up, and pay 5 cents a page (or whatever Jim Stewart Department of Latin Sturgis Charter Public School Hyannis, MA 02601 From: David Wilson-Okamura david@virgil.org Reply-To: mantovano@virgil.org To: mantovano@virgil.org Subject: VIRGIL: cheap Latin Virgil: is there anything in print? Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:38:36 -0400 As I explained several weeks ago, a couple of us at my university are teaching a course on Virgil in translation next semester and thought it might work to assign a facing-page translation, i.e., the Loeb. Trouble is, even the revised Loeb is still too stiff sounding. I've abandoned the Loeb idea, but I'd still like for students to have the Latin text ready at hand, both while they're reading and while we're discussing it in class. This will give our classicists a chance to use their Latin for literary analysis and perhaps entice some our non-classicists to start learning the language. One solution would be to require everyone in the class to buy the OCT, in addition to whichever translations we assign. But for the non-classicists in the bunch, that is going to seem unreasonable: why should I be required to purchase a $35 book that's written in a language I can't read? My question then: does anyone know of another Latin text of Virgil that's in print and cheaper than the OCT? --- Dr. David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org david@virgil.org English Department Virgil reception, discussion, documents, c East Carolina UniversitySparsa et neglecta coegi. -- Claude Fauchet --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
RE: VIRGIL: Loeb for student text?
I would echo the earlier reply on staying away from the Loebs- they are good for a Latin-English quick check on something, but could be very dreadful for a student you want to inspire to read. There are several good translations of the Aeneid- can't remember off hand the editors- not sure on the Georgics and Eclogues. Jim Stewart Sturgis Charter High School Hyannis, MA I'm planning to teach the Eclogues, Georgics, and Aeneid next semester in translation. Has anyone used the Loebs for this? Some of my students will be classics majors, but I'm assuming most will not. --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: The furor of Amata
I'm working on tacitus' use of furor in relation to Messalina (Claudius' wife) and I remembered the Aeneid passage with Amata raging out of control (like a top) in Aeneid 7. I seem to recall reading it as an undergrad over 20 years ago. Does anyone have any current thoughts on the role of Amata and her madness (or, better yet, any images of it in medieval or modern art)? Seems a peculiarly feminist topic, although Tacitus certainly uses it to refer to the madness of soldiers fairly frequently (Hist. 1,63, 1.81, 2.46 and 4.27, as well as Annals 1.49. It is used for women in Annals 14.32, where he describes the causes of the Boudican revolt in Britain. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions. Cheers, Dr. James Stewart Southern Illinois University _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Fatherhood in the Aeneid/Epic
Paul, A place to look would be Reading Vergil's Aeneid: An Interpretive Guide, edited by Christine Perkell, by University of Oklahoma Press, 1999. It is #23 in the Oklahoma Series in Classical Culture. Joseph Farrell has a chapter in the book entitled Aeneid 5: Poetry and Parenthood (pages 96-100). I also seem to recall articles on Mothers and Daughters in the Aeneid- maybe also Fathers and Sons- but can't place them right now. Hope this helps! Give my best to the folks at UQ! Cheers, Jim Stewart Southern Illinois University at Carbondale \Hello, I was wondering if listmembers knew of any works which treat the role of fatherhood in the Aeneid, or in classical epic, or in the works of any specific author of epic. Paul Roche University of Queensland _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Turnus ~ Mark Antony?
I've always loved the closing lines of the Aeneid, simply because it DOES seem to reflect the Augustan triumph. Remember the prominence that Augustus has on the shield of aeneas (the twin rays of light coming from his temples (I think- going from memory). I don't think it is too much to suggest that the final conflict between Aeneas and turnus represents the end of the civil wars, whether you see it as representing Actium (of course this was already described). Remember, too, that Virgil is using homer as well- is he also linking this final duel with the single combats seen in the Iliad? My thoughts (not based on scholarly argument, but based more on a gut feeling, is that Virgil would not have been out of place as a Vietnam protestor of the 1960s- read those last two lines carefully- I think Virgil is saying the wars were a waste of Rome's valuable resources. Just my two cents (or three mal, since I'm in China)- again, gut feelings only. James Stewart Northeast Normal University Changchun, China _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Creusa's demise
I think the key part here is Creusa's comment- Who was once called your wife... Remember that this passage comes after Venus has revealed the destruction of the city to Aeneas (it is not the greeks doing it, but the gods). It seems to me it is at this point that fate takes over Aeneas' life: up to that point, he had not even thought about leaving Troy, but Venus has now set out his destiny before him, a destiny which does not include Creusa. Perhaps Aeneas is being unfeeling in his reaction, but compassion is NOT one of Aeneas' strong points- look at his abandonment of Dio and the slaughter of Turnus, as two immediate references. At this point in the work, aeneas has left troy emotionally, although not physically- and Creusa is not part of that departure. She will stay in Troy, destined to die so that Aeneas can marry another, which again is simplistic. However, i would suggest it should be viewed in terms of Venus' appearance. Hope that helps- and I'd be curious about what others think Jim Stewart She then reminds him of his responsibility to protect his own home first and poignantly asks 'to whom will little Iulus be left, to whom will Anchises be left' and finally she asks in 1st person 'TO WHOM AM I WHO WAS ONCE CALLED YOU WIFE TO BE LEFT?' The good omens of Iulus' fiery hair and the comet ending on Mt. Ida follow. Then at 706 and following, our hero states his strategy for escaping the burning city and rendezvousing at the temple of Ceres. Anchises will be on his shoulders, Iulus will be his companion and as for Creusa, et longe servet vestigia conjunx : and let my wife observe our footprints from afar! It's hard to imagine that Creusa, who moments before had exploded with emotion at being left by Aeneas, now tacitly agrees to be parted from her husband and her only son and to make her way at a distance from them through a night filled with murder and mayhem! The scene makes me uncomfortable with Aeneas once again: though he goes through hell to find her once he realizes she is lost, his concern for her came too late.It would be great to hear what others think about this scene. D.D-Henry, Columbus, Ohio --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Visual of the shield
Re shield discussion. Does the shield serve as a reminder of the sequence in Book VI where Aeneas is told of his and his successors future? Yet another reminder of the destiny of the Roman race that he will see established - he has always seemed in the previous books to need a lot of reminders of his destiny! ah, destiny- well, if you look at it, Aeneas faces his destiny through all 12 books, but is told of it in several specific places- the Shield and the Underworld are the two most obvious, where he actually sees the future. However, in book 2, Venus removes the cloud from his eyes so he can see it is the gods who destroy Troy, while Creusa tells him to mourn her, but to move on to the land he is destined for. In book 4, Aeneas is once again told of his destiny when he must leave Dido and carthage- it is not his fate to stay there. Both of these involve Aeneas' destiny, but the Shield is the first real tangible object which Aeneas has- the rest are either words or shades- remember, he WAS in the underworld in book 6, so I don't think we should picture human figures. I'm sure there are others people can bring up, but it does appear the image of the shield (even though aeneas does not know exactly what it means) is very much a defining moment in the book. Is there a better way to keep his destiny before him and his enemies, than the engraved shield? Short answer- NO Cf too the shield allegedly taken by Alexander when he visited the tomb of Achilles and took away what was reputed to be the hero's shield. Virgil surely had that in mind at some point. Conections with Alexander seem most apt- Augustus certainly had great admiration for the Macedonian prince- and emulation of his conquests can be seen in the poetry of the period, certainly. Cheers, Jim __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Shield in book eight
Rich- I think the shield is one of the great mysteries in the Aeneid, but it is an integral part of the plot. Aeneas is about to begin fighting seriously to get his foothold in Italy- the images, like the characters in the underworld in 6, represent his (Aeneas') and Rome's destiny. Your description of his reaction to it is, I think, good- remember that it was presented by Venus, so he IS the child there. I don't have the Latin right at hand, but the language is very powerful- the shield representing the weight of his future and giving him a reason to fight. What I'm curious about- throwing this into a slightly different ctaegory, but on the same passage- is Virgil's geographic references. Again, i don't have the text, but why are certain places singled out, especially in the last 25 or 30 lines of book 8? I know there is connection to Augustan expansion, but anybody have any thoughts on this? Hope that gives you some ideas. Jim I do not see the reason for Virgil including the images of the shield in his work. I don't think this flows well with the rest of the poem and It seems to be almost a distraction. His reaction to the shield seems that of a child playing with a toy for the first time,,I have no idea what his reaction signifies. Can someone shed light.. Rich --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
