[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] website terminology for free software
Hi Andrea, thanks for the reminder, but the topics seem to be quite unrelated to me. - Original Message - From: pesce...@openoffice.org (off topic: I could imagine, that the @openoffice.org mail addresses might become unavailable from one day to another. Are you prepared to use a different one in future?) To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Date: 05.08.2011 08:49:58 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] website terminology for free software On 04/08/2011 Florian Effenberger wrote: I've received a request to change two things on our website, regarding terminology: - Instead of solely using open source, I was asked that we should also use free software. - Linux should be referred to as GNU/Linux. Before addressing this, I'd wish that the factual information is right, since the license stated on the English website is just wrong, see http://www.mail-archive.com/website@global.libreoffice.org/msg05211.html (the Italian pages have the right information). Please repost this request to the website mailing list again - it is not a marketing question. I agree to your statement that LGPL 3 (or later) is not the license the present LibreOffice product is released under. I'd replace LGPL 3 (or later) by As parts of our code have been licensed under LGPL 3, the full binaries have to be released under this license, even if we aim to LGPL 3 (or later) and MPL in future. Factual errors should be corrected before making any terminology improvements: once the license indication is right, then it's OK to improve the text around it. I don't see these topics to be related at all: The community works on different bugs at the same time. Even if there are more critical errors in the software nobody wants to refrain from correcting minor ones or even typos. Please raise awareness on the appropriate list about your license issue (I'm quite sure it just has been overseen in the past) and let others work on the topics of their interest. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] BrOffice Magazine, issue 21 released
Hi Paulo, all Paulo S. Lima wrote: 2011/6/29 Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com Le 2011-06-28 23:14, Simon Phipps a écrit : Hi Simon. It would be very good indeed if from the next issue onwards distribution was handled by the mirror network - the magazine is sure to be popular. How do we arrange this? S. This is such a great idea if it is possible! We could distribute all of our different LibreOffice Magazine [language] this way. Well, we would love if somebody could help us on that. I think the best place for this topic would be the proje...@global.libreoffice.org list. It's the basic communication channel for international coordination of the DVD teams. In my eyes the magazine is quite similar to the DVD work - and they have server access to the TDF server, so it would be able to have the magazine online on our infrastructure. With regards to the present issue: Why can't you upload the magazine to the pt-br.libreoffice.org pages? Which size do we speak of? IIRC the mail attachment service already tested on the t...@global.libreoffice.org mailing list accepts attachments up tp 5 MB I don't know about the resources of this storage, but you might send it there and post the link here ;-) Please ask directly at the website list for advise - I'm quite sure we'll find a solution inside the TDF infrastructure very soon! Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Reminder: LibreOffice Marketing Conference Call for June 2011
Marc Paré schrieb: [...] Maybe we could use Mumble or OpenMeetings. I favour Mumble as it does demand of too many resources from the user end but if people would rather use OpenMeetings then OK. Some NA Community members have tested Mumble and it works great. We are going to try out OpenOffice next. I think you want to try out OpenMeetings instead ;-) Best Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Reminder: LibreOffice Marketing Conference Call for June 2011
Hi David, all, David Nelson schrieb: Hi, On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Marc Paré schrieb: [...] Maybe we could use Mumble or OpenMeetings. I favour Mumble as it does demand of too many resources from the user end but if people would rather use OpenMeetings then OK. Some NA Community members have tested Mumble and it works great. We are going to try out OpenOffice next. I think you want to try out OpenMeetings instead ;-) My experience with OpenMeetings is that it is a great package but not easy to set up (I have an instance on my own server - it was a challenge to install). I suspect that Mumble will be an easier solution to use, even if it does not have all the great features of OpenMeetings. The only thing with Mumble is that it needs a special client program to be installed on the conference attender's computer, although it's not difficult to install. You already posted that you have admin rights on the OpenMeetings installation at the TDF server. Why don't you mention here that this installation is already in place and up for testing? http://vm3.documentfoundation.org:5080/openmeetings/ Same with Mumble on the TDF server: http://vm3.documentfoundation.org:64738/ but you need a mumble client on your computer: http://mumble.sourceforge.net/ Thanks to Alex Werner for setting these up! Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Cross reference: Discussion on consistent UI theme for screenshots on the design list
Hi all, just to inform you: due to a variety of recommendations for UI themes to be used for official screenshots I'd like to search for a consensus on *one* consistent UI theme for screenshots to be used on - documentation (and it's localizations) - website - marketing material - press kit - DVD (LibOBox) ... Because consistency is important for our Visual Identity and our perception in public, I sent a mail to the disc...@global.libreoffice.org mailing list to collect ideas on three points: 1) how such a UI theme should look like 2) what other conditions should be met 3) which existing UI theme would serve best as standard for screenshots If you are interested in this topic, please have a look at the thread in one of the following archives: http://go.mail-archive.com/TXSpNt-sS7ybaKqPA4TPuaFZriU= or http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg02422.html or http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/VI-Consistent-theme-for-screenshots-tt3100955.html For a direct reply to the mail please ask the mail server to send you the mail with an empty mail to design+get-2...@global.libreoffice.org I'll moderate your mail, if you aren't subscribed to the design list. But please be aware that you won't get the replies to the list too (so use the archives above). Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Magazine LibreOffice International.
Hi Helio, all, Helio S. Ferreira schrieb: = Hi all, for the next issue will have a new layout and a new name, LibreOffice Magazine Brasil. This is really great news! I hope that LibreOffice will get the momentum BrOffice had in the past in Brazil. I'd like to see some kind of advertising for this magazine under it's new name. In my eyes the international community will applaud the Brazilian community for their work - perhaps in blog entries, perhaps in a official press release about the final switch from BrOffice.org to LibreOffice not only for the product, but for the magazine as well. Reading the discussion on the Apache list, there have been many people thinking of BrOffice as independent (forked) development from OpenOffice.org. I'd like to see this corrected, but I can't tell about the impact on the Brazilian community of such a press release. What do you think, Brazilians? Would such a press release be understood as positive reaction by the international community? It will be something like this: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Proposta_capaLibOMagazine01.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Proposta_capaLibOMagazine02.png This logo I like better. This the logo of magazine: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Logotipo_revista_proposta_02.png If I understand it right, the magazine is a work of the Brazilian community. In my eyes it should be allowed to use the logo with TDF subline (if you want to use it, of course) describing it as official resource of the community. As the subline would interfere with the existing line Magazine Brazil I don't think that this would lead to a better visual design, but I wanted to share my opinion, that the magazine shows a tremendous work by the community in Brazil. Here's a sample of the new graphic design: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/e/ee/LibreOffice_Magazine_BR_Gramado.pdf http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/5/55/LibreOffice_Magazine_BR_AssinaturaDigital.pdf http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/3/3e/LibreOffice_Magazine_BR_ODF.pdf I like this design :-) Thanks for sharing! Best regards Bernhard PS: I know about the concerns inside the Brazilian community, but the work on this magazine is visible and probably took more than 3 months. If the creators would be interested in TDF membership, this would be an easy way to show the Membership committee what they have contributed. With one contact knowing about the amount of work by the single applicant (it doesn't need to be several hours a day or week - it just needs to be significant), it would be quite easy for the MC to approve these applications, I assume. And the more members of a team or local community join TDF as members, the better their community is represented inside the international community. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Oracle donates OOo to Apache
Hi Marc, all Marc paré wrote: [...] Oracle has donated the OpenOffice code to the Apache Foundation. [...] As for myself, not having had the experience of working on the OOo project, nor experience with Apache licensing projects, I think the LibreOffice community is here to stay and I will be here to participate for as long as I can. The direction we, as a community, are heading, fits nicely with my values in participating in a meritocratic organisation, as well, the LGPL and Creative Commons licences seem a great fit for the code and our contributed materials. There is one point important to mention in this situation: As far as I know, Apache community is a community of developers. Their meritocratic processes rely on code contribution. There is no Apache project I know of that contains as many and as important non-developers as our community. Rob Weir (IBM) already posted his idea of splitting the community in developers and non-coders, having the developer community as part of the Apache foundation and the other supporting community members outside the foundation [1]. Best regards Bernhard [1]: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/%3cof27f1d9cf.2f849914-on852578a2.0059994a-852578a2.005ae...@lotus.com%3e -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] bug report for OOo images in LibO (was: Re: Additional Platforms...)
Hi Tom, Marc, all, please see my comments below the related text. I moved your posting to the place where I could remove all the unrelated parts of the previous mails. This way every reader (even in future when searching the archives) will be able to get the message very easily and without loss of time... Tom Davies schrieb: Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-05-27 10:25, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions a écrit : Actually - LibreOffice spell checking issue Have you seen on the DEB 64-bit LibreOffice that the spelling pop-up used the OOo seagull image instead of the LO image? [...] In my present version of LibO 3.3.2 on Ubuntu 32bit (LibreOffice 3.3.2 OOO330m19 (Build:202) tag libreoffice-3.3.2.2, Ubuntu package 1:3.3.2-1ubuntu5) all the pop-up windows show the OOo icon in the top left corner. But in the new RC2 for LibreOffice 3.4.0 they show the LibreOffice favicon, so this bug seems to be fixed now. Hi Tim This is something you should perhaps post on the user list to see if anyone else has the same happening on their installation. I know that there is/was an issue with the Quickstarter showing the old OOo icon if the previous version installed was OOo before LibreOffice was installed. I'm not sure if the bug has been fixed. Or the devs list or post a bug-report about it? Please don't use the dev list for bug reports - at least, if you don't want to fix the bug by yourself. They should be reported to bugzilla. Clearing this sort of thing is on-going and will be for quite a long time i would guess. We already have a bug report for these kind of issues: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33229 If you find any place where OOo symbols and icons should be replaced by LibreOffice graphics, please check the last build available and add a comment to this issue. Thanks in advance! Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Marketing brochure
Hi Marwan, all, Marwan Aleasa schrieb: Hi I have made an arabic brochure about LibreOffice features for promotion. Great! Thanks for sharing! I am wondering whether I can upload it to the wiki or not. Of course you can . That's what the wiki is for. As Drew already mentioned, please provide us the link to the uploaded brochure. Even if I will not be able to read it, we could link to it from our official resources and point interested people there. The brochure is on the attachment. To avoid too large downloads for the list subscribers (some with quite a number of mailing lists and sometimes bad Internet connection), attachments are stripped of the mails by the mail server before delivering the mails to the subscribers. So please upload the file to the wiki - we haven't been able to get it by now. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] photo of the temporary DVD, Case, and insert
Hi, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions schrieb: For the North American Community DVD project: Linked below is a photo of the temporary DVD, Case, and insert. http://libreoffice-na.us/the-dvd-picture.jpg Thanks for sharing! Would you mind to add the photo to the wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs so we can have it in mind, when we finalize our branding step by step? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Donation website - how to name it ?
Hi all, as neither the international nor any local marketing team seems to prefer any of my proposals, I'm going to request the website team to create the structure for the third proposal. It seems to be the most natural and easiest to remember approach for our users - and Christian's comment shows, that it fits better with Silverstripe's way of handling translations: Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] Now we should have a more generic URL for donations, and I propose http://donate.documentfoundation.org [...] If we try to ease the access to this page for localized users, a third possibility comes to my mind: http://translation for donate.documentfoundation.org e.g. German: http://spenden.documentfoundation.org French: http://donner.documentfoundation.org Spanish: http://donar.documentfoundation.org Italian: http://donare.documentfoundation.org This would be the shortest version without the necessity for sub-pages. In some cases we might need to handle different languages containing the same word for donate by technical means (reading the browser's language etc) and a language selector. [...] Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brazilian domains
Charles, You wrote: Drew, 2011/5/12 drew d...@baseanswers.com On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 22:25 -0300, luiz wrote: Hi, On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 17:17 +, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: And this recalls another concern of ours: there are 4 brazilians as TDF members/founders. I count 3: Claudio, David and Olivier. Eliane Domingos is the fourth. //drew Hi Luiz. It was simply that I knew there was at least four members from Brasil - I recalled seeing a blog by Olivier Hallot on the subject. http://olivierhallot.blogspot.com/2011/05/novo-membro-da-document-foundation.html You are going places in your reply however where I have no business going. Best wishes, Drew As far as I can tell, this link is quite clear: http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ I don't see Eliane Domingos in that list. So don't comment on what you expect, but read what is written: Paulo did refer to founding members and actual TDF members. Please have a look here: http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/members/ Regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brazilian domains
Hi Charles, Paulo, all, I don't know you, Paulo, very well, but reading your postings shows me that you care for both, the Brazilian and the international LibreOffice community. I know Charles much better - he works hard to support the LibreOffice community, he has experienced quite negative effects of words and actions in the past, first for OpenOffice.org, now for LibreOffice, and he wants to avoid such effects wherever he finds signs that might lead in this direction. And - he tries to be quite clear in his wording, leading to the impression that he doesn't care about the perception and feelings of the people he talks to. But what I wanted to add here in the thread is something different: Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: Paulo, Le Wed, 11 May 2011 11:42:02 -0300, Paulo de Souza Limapaulo.s.l...@gmail.com a écrit : 2011/5/11 Charles-H. Schulzcharles.sch...@documentfoundation.org Hello Paulo, Hello. TDF will be satisfied when the whole community will be healthy and able to contribute to LibreOffice. I'm not sure what you mean with healthy and able to contribute to LibreOffice. I am telling you, since the begining of this mess, we ARE healthy, contributing and doing our job. I really still don't understand why you refuse to agree with that. The proof is in TDF wiki and websites, but I won't insist in this matter anymore, also. If you have a web browser and Google Translate, you can easily see it by yourself. Do it! Paulo: calm down. :-) don't take each of my sentences as an attack. What I mean by a healthy community is a community that does not have open quarrels and arguments such as... the brazilian community. You tell me the community is healthy, but it's not so clear to me. (and there again I have to stop commenting because it quickly stops being TDF's business). That's not true in my eyes. TDF as the international LibreOffice community *is* interested in every regional team working to further LibreOffice as product and as community. If there are issues, where the international community can help, we want to be involved. We've been telling this several times privately and on the mailing lists (e.g. after the announcement of dropping the BrOffice.org name and switching to LibreOffice). But our help is limited. Interpersonal issues should be able to be solved among the people involved. Decisions inside a local team or community about the tools they use and the way they work together should not involve the international community, unless they lead to problems in the relationship to the international community or restrictions to work with the international tools. This has been my concern with the wrong mailing list (Gubros) and the wrong domain (.org.br). It was not clear to me (and others looking from the outside) that both are interim solutions on your way from an mostly independent BrOffice community to the Brazilian part of the international LibreOffice community. Reading that there are people in Brazil trying to keep up their independent community without seeing the positive aspects of being part of the international community leads to sad feelings: LibreOffice *is* international, and even if everybody is free to decide how to work and discuss, we experienced something similar in the past: Single persons or groups tried to draw interested newcomers or community members away from this international team, towards a working area with different focus. They used our infrastructure, pointed to their mailing lists instead of the official ones and so on. Everybody should have the chance to contribute to LibreOffice directly - neither filtered by an NGO (as BrOffice times are over, I don't need any prove or denial in this area), nor redirected to different websites or mailing lists. That's the reason why I want to see a clear statement on the website and in the wiki describing the .org.br website as interim solution until the content has been moved to the pt-br website. If the website would contain a heading like we're moving the content of this site to our new home http://pt-br.libreoffice.org; and the broffice.org site would lead to this page too, I'm sure the Steering Committee would allow to use the external page for the time needed. Of course you can link to resources on the interim site from each pt-br webpage (like For more content ., please have a look at our old website, until the migration has been finished). I think a prominent link from the main page to libreoffice.org.br might help your users not to feel lost in the transition, and this should not be a problem if the goal would be mentioned here too. For the mailing list (Luiz told us, that you are already moving) I hope transistion is easier. I don't mind at all, if the well known list is still active. But everybody should know that the people interested in LibreOffice and being part of the international community use the other list - like you already
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brazilian domains
Hi Paulo, all, sorry for stepping in here so late, but I don't understand what you mean - so I'd rather like to ask instead of rely on possibly wrong assumptions... Paulo S. Lima wrote: 2011/5/9 Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk [...] Paulo, is there a danger of losing the Brazilian websites due to Brazilian law? If that danger does exist then is it a problem that needs to be solved urgently? The websites itself? No. Domains? maybe. Until the NGO is not completely undone (legaly talking...) the domains are safe. Once the NGO is competely over, the domain must be transfered to another NGO (and it MUST be an NGO, not a person or a private company). If I understand you right, the domains have to be owned by an NGO, or they don't exist / are not accessible on the web. And if they exist, Brazilian people know by their extension (.org.br), that they relate to an NGO dedicated to LibreOffice and TDF. When the present NGO is undone, the website will become inactive. I don't know if this is a real issue to the Brazilian community and their users, as I strongly hope that until this time the move towards the br-pt.LibO pages has been finished. But this question should be left to the LibO/TDF community in Brazil, as they are the ones to know their users best. The idea of securing the website for later times comes to my mind, but our trademark policy states clearly that nobody is allowed to use such a website without agreement by the trademark owner, so we can hinder every evil player from using the site. I suppose that ALTA could kindly offer to do that, but if you decide it it will be a proof that TDF members are not reliable for Brazilian Community. Sorry for these words, but it's the crude truth. And here I am a bit lost: I don't know ALTA, but the way you propose to use them as NGO for the website sounds to me, that they don't have the trust of the Brazilian community. If this is true, I think Charles and Florian misunderstood your posting. So please assure my interpretation: The Brazilian community *doesn't* want ALTA to be the community's NGO. Is this right or wrong? [...] If TDF needs an official office in Brazil then that would probably have to be run by the Brazilian Community, funded by them and administered by them. There might be some chance of organising things a little differently but that seems (to me) to be the most obvious way to save the existing websites. I have already posted this issue to the main Brazilian mailing list. Community is deliberating and soon we are going to have an answer. My feeling is that we're gonna to register another domain or to use one already registered for our old website Could you explain why do you need another domain? and increase the speed of our content migration to TDF websites. Wouldn't it be possible to move the content directly to the TDF domain? Perhaps there would be a possibility to have a non-Silverstripe area on TDF servers until the migration is finished? Would this help? As I stated before, personally, I really don't care who will own libreoffice.org.br domain name. And here TDF is different: It is important for the community that the trademark will not be exploited by external people and assiciations not being part of the community. And I think people in the community doesn't care at all. Here it seems to be important to define the Brazilian community. For me it has two aspects: 1. A group of people working together in Brazil doing their best to further LibreOffice. 2. A language based and localized part of the international LibreOffice community, based on our Bylaws, supported by The Document Foundation and administered by a group of people representing the different areas of the entire community. But as I said before: giving the ownership to the people who are threatening us will be a shame and an insult. So as I don't know who is threatening you (ALTA?), I can't understand this phrase. As far as I know nobody asked for approval to use the trademark in the libreoffice.org.br domain - and if there were such a request, I'm sure that the SC would not have granted it for an NGO not supported by the Brazilian community. So my proposal is (and if I understand you right, this is exactly what you are elaborating in the Brazilian community): Find out, if you need / want an NGO for the Brazilian community. If this NGO (either already existing or new to be founded with strict binding to the community) asks for aproval to use the trademark in their URL (and even in their name), SC will most probably approve such a request. But, yet, my first question is not answered: Why North American Community can use the brand in their domain name and Brazilian Community can't? This is a real strage behavior. To my understanding it's just a matter of perception: If the Brazilian website points to the community and supports it, it will be seen as part
[libreoffice-marketing] Donation website - how to name it ?
Hi all, I'm crossposting this question to the projects and the marketing list, because this topic relates to both. Follow-ups please to proje...@libreoffice.org At the moment we link to http://challenge.documentfoundation.org when we want people to donate for LibreOffice and TDF. This website served very well for the time we needed it most: Our challenge for the first 50.000 Euro. Now we should have a more generic URL for donations, and I propose http://donate.documentfoundation.org Florian already established a forwarder from this URL to the challenge site, so it can be used if we want to keep this name as standard donation website. When we start working on the content of this page, I'd suggest to have the donate.TDF page as target of the forwarder and challenge.TDF as link, so most people hit the right page (with the URL they wanted to go) directly. While this naming is tightly related to English and international marketing, discussion on possible names for translated pages are in the focus of the localized marketing teams I try to reach via the projects list. The most logical proposal for localized donation pages would be http://donate.documentfoundation.org/lang-code e.g. .../de .../es .../fr But this seems not to be sufficient for local users, because they will not be able to remember the URL very well. Another possibility would be a sub-page of a localized version of the main TDF website: http://lang-code.documentfoundation.org/translation for donate e.g. http://de.documentfoundation.org/spenden http://fr.documentfoundation.org/donner If we try to ease the access to this page for localized users, a third possibility comes to my mind: http://translation for donate.documentfoundation.org e.g. German: http://spenden.documentfoundation.org French: http://donner.documentfoundation.org Spanish: http://donar.documentfoundation.org Italian: http://donare.documentfoundation.org This would be the shortest version without the necessity for sub-pages. In some cases we might need to handle different languages containing the same word for donate by technical means (reading the browser's language etc) and a language selector. But before we discuss technical details (I'd like to move this part to the website list), I want to know your thoughts on: A) http://donate.documentfoundation.org for the main donation website B) the three different URL for localized websites (I use the German localized versions as examples): 1) http://donate.documentfoundation.org/de 2) http://de.documentfoundation.org/spenden 3) http://spenden.documentfoundation.org Could you please vote (+1) for the preferred version or add a more verbose comment? Florian told me that he doesn't like to have dozens of forwarders between different URL for the same content, so I hope we can agree on one version. Best regards Bernhard PS: I'm sorry that I didn't raise this question earlier, but I've been asked to create a localized community flyer that should contain the right URL. Therefore I hope for a decision during this week... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Abbreviation for LibreOffice?
Hi Christian, Jean, all, Christian Lohmaier schrieb: Hi *, On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Jean Hollis Weberjeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: Do we have a preferred abbreviation for LibreOffice? LibO, LO, or something else? I see the installation filenames use LibO. There's a slight preference towards LibO in semi-official stuff, but on IRC LO is used as well I recall a vigorous discussion on this topic last year, but I haven't been paying close attention since then. What I got as final state (with a posting by Italo, IIRC) was: Even if LibO is a good abbreviation (probably better than LO), in should be avoided in public (= external) discussion, presentation and reference to LibreOffice as long as the brand has not been established in a way that (nearly) everybody knows our full name. Perhaps in a couple of years LibO might be promoted, but for the moment any promotional effort should focus on LibreOffice. Best regards Bernhard PS: This doesn't mean that there is any official rule for internal discussion: If you call LibreOffice LibO, LO, LibrO or anything else on our mailing lists doesn't matter much, as long as the reader know what you talk about (wiki might be a bit differently, especially on pages with external visitors / potential or new contributors). -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] PR translations
Hi Luiz, all Luiz Oliveira schrieb: Ok, Charles Now I understood everything. I do not have to make the change that is requesting. Thanks for clarifying this - of course Charles request will have to go to the relevant parties (as he already replied in his last mail outside this thread). I'm just a volunteer whose goal is to contribute to the TDF and LibreOffice here in Brazil, So I hope, you will keep on the good work. besides being the editor of the BrOffice Magazine(I think we can not use LibreOffice in the magazine too, right?). I always thought the BrOffice Magazine to be an effort of the Brazilian community (BrOffice formerly, now LibreOffice). I don't know how you have been able to solve the problems inside the community in Brazil, so I can't decide if this is still true. If the LibreOffice community (based on The Document Foundation) is authoring the BrOffice Magazine, it should be considered as official community activity and be able to have the name LibreOffice Magazine. But if the Magazine is considered to be released by a community of people not directly related to LibreOffice and The Document Foundation, this name might be revoked. Please address the Steering Committee with details about your structure if you want to use the LibreOffice brand - what I'd appreciate much by the way. I'll do what I can, or say goodbye to all. With regards to the trademarks LibreOffice and TDF needs to be quite strict - but this is not what you should be worried about. Saying goodbye sounds quite hard - I hope you don't feel assailed personally. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Position of the Design Team in the community (was: Re: Third Party Logs wiki page)
Hi Drew, Marc, all! Stepping in here - could have commented on each of your previous mails, but you're quite fast ;-) drew schrieb: On Mon, 2011-04-25 at 07:01 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Drew Le 2011-04-25 05:23, drew a écrit : Hi, I should expand on that - I would like the design team to be a resource for the different groups/teams that will be working on specific items. I would also expect it to continue generating guidelines, recommendations or published best practices if you will. Right - that's one of the reasons to establish a Visual Design team. I would not be in favor it acting as a mandated certification body. In my eyes the Design team defines a set of recommendations to follow in order to create and establish a consistent branding for LibreOffice. All artwork following these recommendations can be seen as supporting the general branding language and doesn't need single case approval to be used. [...] Thanks for the comments. We should however have some group ultimately responsible for the release of new designed materials. For new designs it depends for me if they reuse those pre-approved elements (in this case there is no need for anybody to comment/approve design-wise) or if they provide new, fresh, different elements that could or should expand our present set of branding elements. An expansion of our branding elements can't be done without approval by the Design team, while for new graphics in marketing materials only to be used once it depends on the general impression: If this is still consistent with our main branding language, nobody will object. I don't know if this decision can be left over to the single designer, so I'd prefer a mandatory information of the Design team when some new introduced graphics are to be used for *official* material of the community. IMO the marketing teams create and disseminate materials that often contain pre-approved design elements (ex logos, graphics, fonts etc.) from the design team. Key phrase - pre-approved. Right: Following the design recommendations and using the recommended pre-approved design elements should lead to a consistent visual design. In these cases, and in particular marketing materials and documents, these should be put to the scrutiny of the design team when design elements are included. No - this is not necessary, unless new elements are introduced. Again, I simply disagree. As long as a good faith effort to comply with the guidelines is being made then I see no reason for a vetting process on each work item. I agree. But I also like to see a short information about new material sent to the design team. In my eyes people working on design for LibreOffice *are* part of the design team. If they are able to read English, I recommend them to subscribe to the design list - if not, they should at least browse the wiki for information about our design language. I want to reduce double work - and if a part of our community works on an item others need, it is not necessary to create two totally independent designs. And for consistency and branding reasons a single design is much better than different ones. I think we have been using this process quite effectively with the marketing materials that we have published thus far. For myself I'm trying to set a good example, but if that is being taken as a sign of my agreement that this one team has final say in all work product then let me assuage you of that misconception without further delay. You are part of this team - so you have final say too. Please compare it with any developing effort: If someone creates a patch solving a problem for him, he needs to upload it to the repository and send a mail to the developer list. If this patch breaks some basic functionalities, it will not be included in the main package. If not, even if it is slightly different from what others would have been done, it gets approval. Like the developer being allowed to implement his patch in his personal copy of LibreOffice every designer can use his design on his own. If a developer wants to promote his version, he can't call it LibreOffice, if his changes are more than marginal. Same with design: If the new design adds value to the core design, it will be included in the official design, improved by others and provided to the community and public for their use. If the person(s) working on a particular item wants to put their work up for review, I would encourage them to do so, voluntarily. Of course: Every action inside the community is voluntarily. But if someone wants his artwork to be approved as official artwork (and remember, we hope to convince all community members to use official artwork and design for consistency reasons), it is necessary to present it to the design team. As long as an unofficial design doesn't break any design guidelines, nobody will ask for it's removal or change - especially if
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Third Party Logs wiki page
Hi Marc, all, Marc Paré schrieb: With the designing of different marketing materials for LibreOffice, I have created a wiki page listing the Third Party Logos weblinks[1] that you may want to include on your new designs.These include: * ODF logos * PDF logos * SVG logos * CC (Creative Commons) logos * LGPL logos * W3C Conformance logo (I don't think LibreOffice qualifies for this yet -- accessibility logo) As already mentioned in our thread about the DVD cover design on the design list, some of these logos are licensed in a way that doesn't allow us to use them in every case. Could you or anybody else find out the licenses for the logos - and add a notice to the wiki page [1] to have a close look at the logo licenses on the linked pages until we don't have the license information on our wiki page? Best regards Bernhard [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Third_Party_Logos -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Video of LibO presentation from last weeks Flourish Conference available
Hi all, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions schrieb: On 04/15/2011 06:52 PM, Clovis Tristão wrote: Hi Italo, Congratulations for your presentation. I liked :-) Clóvis On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 4:00 PM, drewd...@baseanswers.com wrote: Hi all, Video of Italo Vignoli's presentation, LibreOffice and The Document Foundation, presented at last weeks Flourish 2011 conference is now available at:. http://flourishconference.blip.tv/file/4987563/ Best wishes, Drew Jensen Is there a downloadable file of this presentation? Should be this one: http://blip.tv/file/get/Flourishconf-LibreOfficeAndTheDocumentFoundation972.m4v Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Document Freedom Day Artwork
Hi Drew, all, drew schrieb: Howdy, Put together some artwork for this years Document Freedom Day, your free to use this as you see fit - if anyone wants the GIMP source files for these drop me a direct email. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Dfd-2011-discs.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Dfd-2011-pen.png This page seems to be broken - doesn't contain any file here: File:Dfd-2011-pen.png No file by this name exists. But the direct link works: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/1/17/Dfd-2011-pen.png As DFD is quite soon, use this one until the wiki page works again... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] help please - accessibility info
Hi Charles, all, Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2011-03-03 12:12 PM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: I do not want to be a part of the Accessibility List, but I would like to know what is being done to help those with this type of issue. Wrong list. If you want to learn about whales, you don't ask about them on the telephones list. Wrong assumption. Marketing is about spreading LibreOffice and thus about spreading information about it's features. Even if the disabled are a marketing area neglected by many other products - I don't think that we need to follow this way. In the opposite: We should consider Accessibility Marketing as an important part of our strategy. If we didn't by now, this is neither Timothy's nor any other's fault. Wrong comparison. He doesn't want to learn to talk to whales, but asks for information about whales on the list of a mammal research institute. Wrong tone. If you don't have any *positive* contribution it is far better to shut up and let others comment his request. Providing him with the necessary links to find out himself as Drew did would have helped much. And using this posting as basis for the creation of a dedicated marketing activity about accessibility would be even better... Best regards Bernhard PS: And if you think it is better to subscribe to a list and unsubscribe after a few days - that's your opinion and you could have told this in a friendly manner. Do you know how easy it is for impaired people? I don't - and neither me nor you have the right to judge. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] international DVD/stick [was: Re: Are there any BrOffice people on this list?]
Hi Marc, all, Marc Paré schrieb: Le 2011-02-28 10:16, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Perhaps this is the right moment to think about creating one official DVD/USB stick for the LibreOffice project? :-) I'd be willing to help... We were really thinking more of on a regional basis. [...] Having regional versions would allow us to add more region-specific materials on the disc. If we were to produce one official disk, it would be harder to target specific materials to specific regional-language groups. I don't believe that the DVD space would allow this. As it stands now, the Americas DVD is already getting pretty full and Tim (the main contributor) is already warning us that the disk space if of concern. In my personal opinion most of the content of a DVD is far more likely to be language dependent than regional. For regions with more than one main language it might be reasonable to provide combined versions of two (or three) languages, but most of the people in the world use one main language. Even multi-language DVD share a large portion of content that doesn't need to be translated. So it's just a partial work to be done on top of the similar work for single language DVDs. Combining the right files and creating ISO files from the right content is probably a task that takes some time to be done without much manual interaction. Files have to be flagged for language (or multi-language), searched and included in the ISO, the UI needs automatic marking / hiding of links to files not translated in the target language. There might be a part of the DVD kept free for local additions, but I agree with Charles, that one officially supported version of a DVD and USB-stick has a larger impact on international marketing than single regional activities, allowing special groups to create their own DVD, while users in any other parts of the world don't have access to such resources. So, IMO, regional DVD/USB sticks for the LibreOffice project would be more practical for the North/Central/South American regions. I think that a common effort by the international marketing leading to English, French, Spanish, Portuguese and German versions of the DVD could be more practical for the entire community... Combining the language dependent content to English/French or English/French/Spanish versions might be appropriate for certain markets, but as you already stated, free space on DVD is restricted. And yes, any help with the DVD/USB projects would be most welcome. +1 If I understood Drew right, the North American DVD is based on the German LibreOfficeBox, so the effort has already been shared. Perhaps there is a possibility to improve this interaction even more... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-marketing] Using a Gallery table in the wiki to provide design resources?
Hi all, as this topic is relevant for design and marketing, I don't see a way to avoid cross-posting. Follow-up on the marketing list please. During the last weeks several people worked on design elements to be used in order to improve knowledge and public awareness for LibreOffice. Marc is working hard to put them all together on the marketing wiki, but I feel that we still miss an easy entry point for people interested in using such resources on their website, for marketing activities and so on. Back in OOo times we had a gallery showing different categories of such artwork which served quite well for people searching for a web button, a banner or a CD/DVD label. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/Gallery Before I start working on migrating this gallery to our wiki (as I created it, there is no licensing issue), I'd like to ask your opinion: Do you think this is a good approach? In contrast to the OOo gallery I'd like to see this wiki page as entry point to the officially approved designs - positioned at the marketing area of the wiki (at least until we put them up on the website). The development area on the design wiki might get a similar entry point (for contributors, including the official source file necessary for using them as basis for branding based design), but I think the marketing / user / supporter resources are more important at the moment. Any questions? proposals? ideas? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] design overhaul
Hi Joey, all! You're totally that we want to go on with the Community Design. But this will happen on the design list, not on marketing. So please: everybody interested in this task: Join our Design Team. The Kick-Off for the Design Team has reached it's third step: Introduction of the Team Members: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off#Step_3:_Introduction_of_the_Team_Members The Community Design is one of the main points in Step 7 - probably to be started in a few weeks, while the steps in-between are necessary to be solved before. CC'ing the design list, so the people there are aware of this mail... Best regards Bernhard (for the design list I keep the full quote) Johannes Bausch schrieb: Hey folks, as far as I have followed the development so far it seems that both logo and icons (which make the gross of our branding) for the current release (3.3) have been used quite extensively and seem to be the ones we will settle on in the long run. I still want to share some thoughts about that. 1. What happened to the community branding? As the current logo has been used so much, I must say that I want to speak *against* changing it again. 2. The wiki branding site is still full of ideas for logos, mascots, icons etc. and it seems as if nothing is decided yet. And this is the official position, isn't it? Having said that, I'd like to encourage you (us) to somehow finalize the branding. There are so many great artists (see the wallpaper renders of the icons) who use, yes, which drafts? - The official one? The ones they like most? - for their work. I think it would be better if we had a clear decision regarding branding, and that as soon as possible. 3. There is no central place to look for resources (yes, since we haven't decided upon an official version yet, I begin to repeat myself). The wallpaper renders, for example, where are the source files for these icons? They look like Bernhard's, but even better. *They *should be the ones used in the application. Now some minor issues which I still don't like about the current official files. 1. The LibreOffice still has no proper ligatures. From a typographic point of view the text looks cheap. 2. There is no proper spacing/connection between logo and logo text: http://tinyurl.com/6kt8n8q For me logo and text look like two distinct parts. There are several reasons for this. The edges on the logo are rounded while the text has sharp ones. The lines of text and logo are not the same width. 3. I don't like the emboss effect on the contemporary color version (while this might be my personal opinion, I still want you to consider that for a second. In my eyes it just looks like a cheap gimp filter added to the normal version). As far as I can remember, we thought about starting work on the official branding after 3.3 is released. I am willing to spend some time on this issue over the next few months, but only if we can decide upon a goal in this discussion. Thanks, Joey -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Updated Conference Kit wiki page and thoughts about branding
Hi Marc, all, Marc Paré schrieb: ** Disclaimer - I am a fan of the LibreOffice green ** [...] Colour Branding We should really talk whether we should have a unified look for marketing resources or do we leave it up to regional decisions. I'd like to see a common branding language throughout the different teams. This would not only improve the feeling of belonging together, but help our audience to get the impression of a integrative community. That is, do all of our banners, posters, flyers, stickers etc. look the same worldwide? As an example, if you examine the German team's resources for the upcoming CeBit2011, you'll see that they are using the green background on ALL of their resources. However, the US team, we are using a white background on our LibreOffice pamphlet. Have a look at the German team's designs (examples on the Conference Kit wiki page). Thank you very much for this page - it makes it much easier to see what we have already and what we need in future. Even if I like the LibO Green too, the German design is too green in my eyes - our branding is lighter, a combination of green and grey. Therefore I prefer the US design. Do we also want to cultivate a brand based on colour and stick to this brand? I don't think that color should be the only basis of our brand - even if color is one of the most important areas. Our brand should be based on the logo, our icons, the colors, the form (right upper corner, triangles ...), shading (inner shading) and so on. We will come up with some officially approved resources, based on the Initial Branding by the Design Team. As this branding had to be done by reduced community involvement due to the time restrictions when TDF/LibreOffice was set up, if will undergo an overhaul during the next months (proposed timeframe: until LibO 3.5). I don't know about the differences between the future Community Branding and the present Initial Branding - just be aware, that there might be something new... Personally, I believe that the LibreOffice green would make it undeniably recognizable everywhere we go. You would have a hard time not being able to find the LibreOffice green poster in a conference hall. If we are dealing with the various LibO applications then we would use their particular colours of course. Referring to the different sub-application colors is much better with a lighter and neutral background - the green background might be problematic here. Another factor is cost. Does using green paper stock at the printer add to the cost? What do we do about poorly funded marketing teams to minimize costs? Green paper is nearly impossible, if we want to stay consistent with our branding colors. You will never get a paper in our green tone. And if you want to have any other color on it, you will have to add a white background to every lighter color. Looking at the German marketing material: This has probably been printed by a professional print studio allowing to print colors to the edges of the paper and cutting it afterwards. It looks very professional, but might be costly too. I don't know if this is a solution for all our local marketing teams. We already discussed an idea of creating a vertical banner by linking standard format sheets of paper (A4 / Letter) with metal rings to each other. We need to be creative to reduce cost... LibreOffice Marketing Box I bring up again the idea of a LibreOffice Marketing Box where this box could be shipped from one destination to another in a particular region. The box could contain necessary marketing resources to setup a normal conference booth/table area. This to minimize initial costs where funding is low. We could then send out teams more easily to conferences knowing that the LibreOffice brand resources are used. Shipping might be costly too (or take too much time), but we might have such boxes for several regions of the world, allowing people to share their marketing material with other teams in their broader local area. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-marketing] [libreoffice-marketing] Re: http://web.libreofficebox.org/
Hi Drew, * I've been much too short in my comment - thanks for clarification... Drew Jensen wrote: On Sat, 2011-02-05 at 22:06 +0100, Dr. Bernhard Dippold wrote: Of course. The design Drew chose for his SCALE DVD is based on their actual DVD design. (By the way provided by one of the most active Design Team members) ;-) Yes and I mentioned that in (I think) each post referring to that design. My single point in this mail was: The LibO-Box is part of our community. I wanted to show that you are aware of this work - that's all. But let's be fair - it has the official mime-icons placed in a semi-circle, the background used is gone, the logo is changed from official to community, all text, even as an en translation from the de, from the original is either gone, altered and repositioned, below each icon now text added that is not on the original - so yes it saved a few minutes. That's what I meant by it's based on - it follows the same visual language. If you understood it as copied or wasn't able to create anything on his own I'm very sorry - it's exactly the opposite to what I meant! I want to get a common design for all community distributions - but at the moment I can't spend enough time on this task. [... interactive work on the US marketing mailing list ... ] - so calling it 'Drew's' disc is a bit of a stretch, IMO. Sorry - I didn't know. I can't follow the US marketing list too :-( On a personal note, and as I mentioned on the US list, I find it interesting that after posting to the international design list, no response, but it was discussed, briefly, on the German list. It is marked for reply (as about 30 other mails on the design list), but you're right - a short I like it - it fit's with the branding guideline would have been appropriate. I'll remember (hopefully) for the next time. The reason why to post it on the DE-list was a different one: People there still discussed different proposals for their DVD design. As I already mentioned, I want to create a consistent Branding Design for LibreOffice, so I hoped they would tend to the proposal similar to the US group's design. They did ;-) [...] Best regards And sorry again for any displeasure! Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] DVD material updated
Hi Charles, * Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: [...] Hello everyone, please use the new logos (without TDF) for your labels: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png There might be some modifications to the logos during the next days. The Design Team is still working on them. Logos with additional badges / sublines (like Community supporter or Community distributor) will need clear definitions about the preconditions to use them. If you need logos to be used outside the community in the meantime, please contact the design@libo list or me personally (as the graphics in the link provided by Charles shouldn't be scaled for quality reasons). Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] DVD label
Hi Stefan, Dave, all, Thanks for pointing to the important basics for any LibO related artwork! Hi Dave, Am 30.01.2011 23:02, schrieb Dave Johnson: Here is the label for my local area. http://www.davefilms.us/libreoffice/LibO-dvd-label-DaveFilms_2011.png Please follow the branding guidelines: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Logos Especially here: You are not allowed to replace the Logo text nor use a different font. Instead, use the logo graphic files available from the project. This case is quite special because Dave mimics the original logo by putting together the single parts of the logo (symbol and text), whiole using them alone is allowed following the Guidelines. What needs consideration is: - Don't reduce the white space area around the logo to less than 1/2 the width of the symbol. The SM sign is just 1/4 of the symbol's width away from the LibreOffice text. When the right distances are respected, the impression of a modified logo will be reduced, as the distance allows a clear distiction between our logo and the surroundings. - Don't modify the logo colors. The lower border of the symbol is covered by some kind of grey painting - perhaps this derives from removing the gradient in front of the logo. Either use the contemporary logo if you want to show gradients or use the default logo, if the symbol sould stay black. Also see the Trademark Policy http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TradeMark_Policy Following our latest discussions with Dave, I'm quite sure he is informed about it - especially with regards to the differentiation between external reference to the product and community on the one hand and representation as TDF / community spokespeople / official provider of resources on the other. Very soon there will be a modified logo to be used for external reference - probably based on this draft: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png So please stay tuned... Best regards Bernhard PS: Personally I don't think that the colors of the blue gradient fit very well with the LibO green, but this is nothing we need to discuss here... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice DVD test
Hi Fabian, Houbsi, all sorry for stepping in so late - but caused by the amount of mails during the last days, I'm working hard to reduce the number of open replies... Fabian Rodriguez wrote: On 01/29/2011 09:15 PM, Mike Houben wrote: Hi all, I don't know why we have a Design-Team which is working on a DVD-Label and you are making your own?! Because we are still in the period of defining our positions. When the resources are ready and most of the people in the lists know what goes on, a short reminder by one of the more experiences team members will provide the necessary information to find the best way for most of the questions. Houbsi P.S.: Is it just me or are the Teams working each on his own Planet without looking what the others are doing?! Hi Mike, I am not in the design team and I needed these rather quickly. I am just sharing what I am doing, now that you mention it I hope someone from the design team is sitting on both lists (or vice-versa). Even if I'd like you to join the Design Team, this is no necessary precondition to design any LibO related artwork. ;-) There are people (like me ;-) ) on both lists - but sharing whith the dedicated group would have even more positive effect. I am only making 50 for this run, I'll be distributing them in person in a workshop I am giving (Introduction to Free Software GNU/Linux). I'll gladly adopt/adapt any other label(s) in the making! So far the few initial DVDs I made had great reception. As you already printed the labels, go ahead with them (especially as you give them away personally with apropriate comments). But if you start to create new ones, please take into account, that the present design doesn't comply with the Branding Guidelines [1]: The minimum distance between logo and surroundings (half the width of the document symbol) seems not to be resepected on your label. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] DVD label
Hi Dave, FYI I used the early 'official' logos that are provided on the wiki. I am getting tired of the rude objections toi juste about everything It do. I'm very sorry if you consider my comments as rude objections. They have never been meant to sound that way. As mentioned earlier, we are still in a period of defining our basics. This includes the graphical resources and the rules how to use them. So it might be possible that the official logos are slightly modified over the time. It's important for LibreOffice to be consistent and professional in the way it is presented in public. That's the reason why we provide Branding Guidelines [1] and why we want our trademarks to be respected. The Trademark Policy is in a close-to-final state, allowing to use our marks without previous single case request in the most cases. If you wanted to sell a brown, sugared beverage you will not be allowed to call it Coca Cola, if it would not contain pure Coca Cola. Even if a set of beverages contain Coca Cola among others, you would probably be not allowed to call them Coca Cola set - you would need to show clearly that your set is not provided by the Coca Cola company. And if you sell pure Coke, you will notbe allowed to change the label's color to green. There are rules that should be followed in our community too - and not following these rules might lead to negative perception in public. So please don't feel criticized for providing feedback on our list: It's nearly the opposite - we just want to improve and clarify your design and our public perception. It is the viger font! The offiicial Logo font is called Vegur, but I think Stefan wanted to refer to the fact that you added a different subline in another font to the logo. As it doesn't have the necessary white space from the logo itself, it looked like it was part of the logo. Best regards Bernhard PS: Just to make it clear: Providing a possibility to get LibreOffice on DVD is a task I really apprechiate. It supports our community and the product! [1]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] branding colors - missmatch
Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] Thomas Krumbein schrieb: Hey Bernhard, not shure, if you really understood the problem: It is not the color RGB (24,136,3) - this is the same value in Adobe CS by opening Logo-File (png, jpg or svg). You twisted the numbers: Green is 163, not 136 Sorry, was my fault: I twisted them in my previous mail... Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] branding colors - missmatch
Hi Thomas, all, CC'ing the design list as I think this topic should be discussed there. Thomas Krumbein schrieb: Hey folks, it´s me again - I still do not have an real answer regarding colors. Sorry - but as I don't possess Adobe CS4, I can't reproduce your problem. We now have to do the printing for CeBIT 2011 - and I like to get an clear answer from all those people, who have made the color branding guidelines. Christoph Noack is the one who provided these colors - based on some thoughts from the design team. Unles I do not get an clear answer here, I will decide the colors for myself - and than I will use CMYK 79, 0, 100, 0. I don't understand what's the problem with the values written on the wiki site. As they will be printed on real material, they will look different from their representation on the web. Again the link for comparing colors: www.ooodev.org/images/downloads/LibO/farbunterschied.pdf This file shows really dark green tones - and imported in Inkscape it reads #007c37 for the darker and #1cb24b for the lighter green. None of them is #18a303 what it should be. I could send you a screenshot (or the SVG file), but I assume that this result is based on several conversions between applications, file formats and color models, so it would probably not help. As we can't avoid conversion problems with different applications, we should stay with the color codes as far as possible. Even with the same color codes they will look different when presented on different monitors or printed by different printers. (I remember a strange color problem with Adobe conversion to CMYK back in 2006 on the OOo-Art list, where only Illustrator showed different colors or converted to other values while all the other applications showed the same color. Can't search the archive at the moment, but it was related to the Art Style guide we created then - and perhaps a comment made it in the guide too) So please use HEX 18a303 RGB (24,136,3) CMYK (85,0,98,36) some more comments below... Best regarsds Thomas Am 16.01.2011 13:46, schrieb Thomas Krumbein: Hey, I try to create some marketing-material for LibO, unfortunatly I have some mismatch in colors: Following the branding guidlines the main color for Libre is Green 1, Hex 18A303, RGB 24 163 3, CMYK 85 0 98 36 When I use the cmyk values (for printing), color seems to be really darker then the LibO Color (as seen in Web). I am using Adobe CS4 - Illustrator. When I try to open the svg-logo-file, I got an error. I'll send you a file converted to plain SVG offlist. Perhaps you can open this one. When I open the png file, I can pick up the color of the Libre word: Hex 25A22D, RGB 37 162 45, CMYK 79,0,100,0 I don't know enough about color definition in PNG. But the logo has been exported from Inkscape with the right color, so it might be possible to find out, how the color values are stored. Did you have a look at the file with a different application than Illustrator? Does the color differ? Well, this values are really different! Yes indeed. So, what to do? Ii just tried to save a SVG file containing a green rectangle and open it in an editor. It reads: style=color:#00;fill:#18a303;fill-opacity:1 ... The exported PNG file doesn't show any readable values because it is compressed, I suggest. But as well in Inkscape as in GIMP the color stays #18a303. so I don't know if there is a problem with the .png file you got or with the color rendering at yours or somewhere in-between. Perhaps the SVG file can be opened... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] official source code repository for CD distribution[was: DVD and Jewel case design]
Hi Tom, Tom Davies schrieb: Hi :) I think you need to put the original source code on the Cd. No, it is sufficient to provide a link to the code, but this link must be valid for a reasonable time. Due to server capacities I don't know if TDF will be able to provide such continuously reachable links to every version of LibreOffice, but this should be discussed by the SC (CC'ing the SC-discuss list). If we have a reliable external repository for previous versions (don't know how long they need to be stored - 3 years?), CDs could link there. For DVD with enough space on the disc it is easier to include the sources IMHO. The GPL agreement allows you and/or the library/school to make a small profit from the sale of the Cds and to cover costs. It's LGPL, but this doesn't make a difference, as LGPL refers to GPL. As far a I know there is no clause in the license that hinders anybody to take as much money as wanted for the CDs/DVDs. But I'd like to see us pointing out, that fair use of LibreOffice includes the information about free download from our website, so everybody will have the chance to decide how much she is willing to pay. (And part of the money earned by selling CDs/DVDs could be donated to the community...) I guess an ideal Cd would have the installers for all the various platforms along with the source code but you might want to have different Cds for Windows Mac and possibly Linux. That depends on the goals of the CDs/DVDs. I like the approach of LibreOffice-Box (present state at http://www.libreofficebox.org/, at the moment only in German) providing an ISO with all installers, source code, documentation, extensions and artwork (as well as related open source software) on DVD. But if you want to provide CDs only it might be necessary to divide the installers by language or operating system. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibO DVD fulfillment web-page
Hi Dave, * Dave Johnson schrieb: That sounds good to me. Still need official art for the cover of the DVD. [...] Jens Habermann is working on DVD labels and covers. Please have a look at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:JeHa These designs are not yet decided to become official - they might be improved / finalized during the next weeks. I'm sorry that I can't provide you official art now, but we're working hard to create LibO related mimetype icons and get them included in the official package before the last RC will become the final release... So please bear with us... As Drew needs the final DVDs in about two months, I'm quite sure that we will be able to create finalized covers and labels until the end of January. Please have a look at the des...@libreoffice.org list for details... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Libre Office logo designs
Hi Tom, * Tom Davies schrieb: Hi :) Surely this would be best done within the existing Design Group rather than creating a new specialist group? That's what I said: Please join the Design Group by subscribing to our mailing list. [ ...] It would be ideal if the Design Group had specific one-off tasks such as this along with ongoing work imo. It is a good time and worth joining for a while for such specific tasks. After the release of LibO 3.3 we will work on short- and long-term tasks and topics simultaneously. Just for the moment there is not enough time to work on anything else than the most pressing topics. The name LibO misses the value of the meaning of Libre. It sounds more like a library that linux-people generally ignore on the way to find the juicy stuff. It could be just me but LibreO is not really so much more hassle to type? It still lacks the value of the meaning of Office. ;-) LibO is just an internal acronym for LibreOffice. It's shorter to type and easier in speech. We already had this discussion on LO, LibO and LibreO about two months ago. Back then it was decided to prefer LibO, but not to market it in public, because LibreOffice still lacks public recognition. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Libre Office logo designs
Hi Joey (and everybody interested in this topic)! Johannes Bausch schrieb: Just a small question (and offer): when will we arrive at a point where decisions about the logo are made? Any update to the logo will be part of the transition from the Initial Branding Design we need for our first release(s) and the Community Branding Design we plan to establish for LibreOffice 3.4 or 3.5. In my personal opinion this will probably be between Summer 2011 and Spring 2012 - but I don't know any official release roadmap for these versions. But we'll need this time to define and create our community based branding - starting with looking at our goals, defining how branding design can help to get there, creating artwork and spreading it at any place LibO is represented in public. I read somewhere that you want to form a group who takes care of the whole branding issue, and I'd like to be part of that team. That's great! We will not be able to start real work on this topic before the release of LibO 3.3, but after the release this will become our main task for the next months. Please join the design mailing list (des...@libreoffice.org), because branding related topics are worked on and co-ordinated there. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-website] Proposal for better exposure for developer interviews
Hi Cor, all CC'ing marketing... Cor Nouws schrieb: Hi all, There are some wonderful interviews going on, that show up on the official TDF blog. http://blog.documentfoundation.org/ [...] IMHO these interviews deserve a much better exposure than 'just' the blog. +1 Therefore my proposal: [...prominent on the /develop/ website...] +1 I'd like to see them supported / exploited by our marketing team to show the world about the broad support among developers as well as showing more developers the way to our community Best regards Bernhard PS: I don't have the time to do anything about this topic, but perhaps someone else (with more time...) shares my opinion... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: A web page for TDF/LibreOffice store
Hi James, Danishka, all James Walker schrieb: On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Danishka Navindanis...@gmail.com wrote: In my opinion I think that we should really leave it up to the individual marketing teams to do this for their area. It would be easier to manage and then the items sold could be better customized to their market. you meant local communities will produce Tshirts and send their funds back to TDF ? I don't think it as a good solution, but it is the best solution if we are not working for fund raising with Tshirts. I don't think that it is necessary that all stores have to be led by TDF directly. In my eyes local stores make sense by avoiding customs, reducing transport fees and delivery times. Probably we (the community led by the Steering Committee) will have to define which way to go: a) one centralized store b) one central organization with different local stores c) officially approved local stores (one for each region) d) officially approved local stores (no restriction by region) like the distributor network on OOo e) stores without direct connection to the community / TDF With us having marketing broken down into regions, or languages, I think it would be easier for each language group or marketing area to do there own thing. Just like there are places in the US that make the items and handle shipping and everything else for you, I am sure there is in other countries as well. It would be really confusing I think to attempt a global store. I also am not sure what selling stuff under TDF would do for the non-profit aspect of the foundation. What I see is the US/CAN marketing teams setting up a place and then directing people to that site when they are out promoting LibreOffice. Then all the money that is generated from their store could go towards more Marketing in the area. I think seperating the funds like that would work just fine. I am going to end here for now, as I feel like I am rambling. Not at all - this is a topic we should discuss and decide, at it is a good opportunity to raise money. What I want to avoid is companies paying money to become the official LibO store - avoiding concurrent stores until the next one pays more money. Even if this might bring us the most money, it might not be the best situation for our users / customers and doesn't fit to my understanding of free and open. My preference is option d) Stores have to ask permission to be mentioned on our website. We provide officially approved designs for them to sell (or we accept their design proposals - under free license - as part of our official visual design) They can add a button/banner Officially approved LibreOffice store. They donate a certain percentage to TDF. Best regards Bernhard James -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Logo Briefing
Hi Cor, Cor Nouws schrieb: Hi Thorsten, Thorsten Wilms wrote (24-11-10 13:15) Already brought up on the design list, but as this sits well within the overlap between marketing and (visual) design: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Visual_Identity_Briefing This should be seen and evaluated in combination with http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mission I understand and appreciate that you look to the mission statement too, when thinking about the logo, but - unless I really missed it ;-) - I do not remember a request from the steering committee to change our mission statement. So as long as you use your mission discussion for inspiration, I think it is great. But if you expect a sudden place on http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ , that might be different. If I understand Thorsten right, his aim is not the TDF mission statement you link to, but the LibreOffice community mission statement. On the TDF page the mission is stated as to facilitate the evolution of the [...] community into a new structure ... and co-ordinate activity across the community. This is about the way TDF supports LibreOffice. But our goals as community have not been defined by now - we just inherited them from OOo. So it's a very valid point to brainstorm about our goals and the way we want to go as community - Thorsten didn't only ask for feedback with regards to the logo, but also for the general mission statement: http://go.mail-archive.com/Lm1yAxgSTOR8zMrKlScWPTEp4vo= I'm very sorry, that I can't take part in this discussion more intensively, but there are other tasks with deadline (LibO 3.3 release) I think to be more important at the moment. I'm sure even more community members will take part in this discussion, once the first stable release of LibO is ready... Best regards Bernhard And apologies that I will not be very active in the discussion itself. Just a matter of hard choices I have to make. Kind regards, Cor -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Structure and Relationship [was: Struct.... : Design Team, Marketing Team (Summary, Proposal, ...)
Hi Christoph, all, just a short more to come later (I hope) Christoph Noack schrieb: Hi all, [...] INFRASTRUCTURE As far as I can see, there is no need for a dedicated Design section within the official website - except e.g. things like requests for contribution and collaboration. Just our results will be communicated by the software itself, and the website. What about a download area for graphical elements / resources? Officially approved artwork for usage outside the community (logos, web buttons, banners etc) should be available directly (after a notice about trademark and branding guidelines), perhaps with a feedback button or form, so we know about the numbers and places where they are used. I could imagine people can leaving their email to be informed, when our branding will be modified to a larger scale. Other officially approved design (like posters, presentation template, CD labels, merchandising ...) can be available only after logging in or can be presented at the wiki on a page that should not be modified by others than the design team. The recently set up design mailing list should suite our needs as well. No (urgent) need to further refine the mailing list structure. +1 For the wiki, there have been several proposals including best practices how to shape the titles (URLs). Based on these proposals and the structure, I do propose: * Design: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design * UXD: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/UXD * VID: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/VID I don't see a reason to add the cryptic abbreviations to the URLs. Perhaps we will get used to them, but people without our background don't understand them at all, I fear. Why can't we stay with /Design/ and add the relevant category to every page? While I think it is reasonable to contain the main category in the URL, the URL would become too long for linking with more of them, while the additional information to the user is rather limited (especially with the abbr.). Please keep in mind that our repositories might be translated to different languages - adding another /iso to the URL. Categories applied are Design (in any case), and User Experience Design and Visual Identity Design. +1 One reason for keeping the UXD and VID items in a common tree is, that we share some common information. Refined target user descriptions (personas), or tooling are some of them ... Here is an example of the OOo UX tooling page I've created, maybe that helps to understand what I am thinking about :-) [2] I understand that there are resources to be used by all designers (UX and VI). So I don't insist on adding /Visual Design/ or /User Experience/ to the URL. But as mentioned above, the approach of leaving the sub-categories to the wiki categories and using a common URL /Design/ seems reasonable to me (and allows even shorter URL...). Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Structure and Relationship [was: Struct.... : Design Team, Marketing Team (Summary, Proposal, ...)
Hi Christoph, * sorry for not having been clear enough... Christoph Noack schrieb: Hi Bernhard! Am Dienstag, den 23.11.2010, 23:47 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: [...] [... URL with /Design/VID/ and /Design/UXD/ or just /Design/ ...] Well, the reason was to better distinguish between visuals and utility. I'm not worried with regard to the abbreviations, since the Design is the most important information here. But the translation abbreviation is a good point. Thus, we may simply go with the category approach and chance things later on (if required). +1 Categories applied are Design (in any case), and User Experience Design and Visual Identity Design. +1 One reason for keeping the UXD and VID items in a common tree is, that we share some common information. Refined target user descriptions (personas), or tooling are some of them ... Here is an example of the OOo UX tooling page I've created, maybe that helps to understand what I am thinking about :-) [2] I understand that there are resources to be used by all designers (UX and VI). So I don't insist on adding /Visual Design/ or /User Experience/ to the URL. And there are also differences; e.g. something like the user feedback tooling is something rather related to User Experience. Moreover, since we'll use the wiki for working drafts / specifications / ... it might make sense to have this separated. I didn't make clear that there are different areas of work that are related to UX or Visual Identity only. But I think it is not necessary to define this differences in the URL. Using the relevant categories is sufficient IMHO. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [Design] Design team needs and Drupal site development
Hi Marc, all, it's hard to follow general decisions down in threads on Drupal. Marc Paré schrieb: [...] Now that we essentially have 2 groups: [Marketing] and [Design], do we want an ideas section in both? Or would we rather have on ideas section where we can see the whole range of ideas? [...]our infrastructure should reflect Design-Marketing; [...] or that Marketing and Design rest at the same level and our infrastructure should reflect two categories of: Design and Marketing; +1 [...] or that Marketing is the umbrella category by which Design is a subset of that category Marketing-Design. Best Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [Design] Design team needs and Drupal site development
Hi Michael, * Michael Wheatland schrieb: [...] I have created a workflow summary from the information gathered from this thread. In addition to this we can build a 'exhibition system' which would allow people outside of the design team to see examples of projects that the design team have completed, but that is the next step, we need to build the groundwork first. In my eyes creation of the SilverStripe website to go live in a few days, a working area for the designers and the initial branding design is much more important at the moment than any decision on the Drupal website. See the design workflow summary here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal/Design Can you please make any comments regarding the appropriateness of the workflow and project states. Any additional functionality of the Request-Develop-Feedback-Approve-Launch sequence and inputs and outputs to the system should be built now. Sorry, I will not have the time to comment on this area until we allow our users and contributors to get what they need at least at the release of our first stable program version. I don't know if the situation is different for other contributors here, but you might get more relevant feedback in a few weeks - and if this will show that the direction you took should be modified a bit, this might be still possible with Drupal, I think. If this will mean double work for you, I'm sorry. But just reading all the great ideas and planning for future work takes more time than I have for working on wiki and design elements... I hope this satisfies all those designers out there who are hungry for a taste of what is to come. I hope there are designers hungry for real work on the initial design for LibreOffice 3.3. I'll hopefully find the time to send a posting to the new design list this evening... My questions: Should we also allow people to post unauthorised design resources (Only within the design group) as design ideas? Yes - but clearly stated as drafts / ideas. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] The LibreOffice website
Hi Drew, all (I'd like to have a follow-up on the website list - please remove market...@libo when replying, if you are subscribed there too) I've been told when I asked for access to marketing.libreoffice.org that this area is not going to become active, because there has been a decision on the structure I haven't been involved and I don't know if this is an official decision of TDF or the website team: The website should only contain information for our users, while all other content - for contributors, community activities and anything else - should be presented at the wiki. http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/msg00925.html drew schrieb: [...] it appears to me, that there is good progress for the different NL pages, but the international pages are lagging. So - looking over the ML, wiki, various test sites - it's not that we are lacking ideas, there are wire frames, color schemes and lots of legacy content. Let me simply ask: How do folks here want to proceed? I'd rather like to see official marketing and design material (for journalists, contributors, designers, website admins and so on) on the website, while material waiting for official approval, drafts and ideas should be hosted on the wiki. This would allow creative activity in the wiki while keeping a consistent branding in the way and the resources we communicate to the outside. Of course we don't need to call the website area marketing or design, perhaps resources or a dedicated tab in download might be appropriate. The present area trademark on the Project tab seems not to be the right place in my eyes. I imagine not only logos, but web buttons and banners, posters and handouts, presentation templates (stating created with LibreOffice) and other material to be used by users and promoters (the press kit could be placed there too IMHO), while more resources can be reached after logging in: branding elements, templates for official project presentations, business cards (stating LibO community member after approval as contributor) and so on. Christoph, would like to take a little time still to look at the basic questions: Who we are expecting as the sites users? What do we want to offer them? Ok, good questions sure. I would like to suggest we focus our attention and actions, for the moment, to the website we will be going live in a few weeks. +1 Anyone want to jump here and kick it off? Even if I don't have much time, that's the area I already wanted to start during the last weeks. Any help is highly appreciated! But at first we should decide on the structure. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [Design] Design team needs and Drupal site development
Hi Marc, Thorsten, * Marc Paré schrieb: Le 2010-11-21 11:23, Thorsten Wilms a écrit : [...] Design vs Marketing, yes. If you apply some of the broader definitions, you can both conclude that Design touches everything and also that Marketing touches everything. Originally marketing may have been all about selling and design all about look and haptics, but both are starting positions where you end up covering the entire system if you run long enough. But you don't need to run that far Of course there are inter-dependencies between marketing and design - quite similar to the links between development and QA or development and UX. But this doesn't mean to make any unsolvable problems. What if we try to avoid both terms? (if not combined with a more specific field) I think they cover quite clearly what they want to say, so I'd keep them. Nevertheless we can think of different sub-segments as working fields for specified teams, but I think most of them can be easily subsumed under one of the categories (especially if we think of the Design sub-categories Visual Design and UX Design). * Steering (mission statement and strategy go here) Much broader than marketing and design - it covers the central points of branding and needs to be discussed in the entire community. * Visual Identity (starting from the logo) Design (Visual D) * Market Research Marketing * Promotion (bound to have overlap with Visual Identity, sadly) Marketing, by using resources from Design (Visual D) * Relations (could have an internal partner, called Community) Marketing (I'd like to see strengthening and broadening our community a central task for our marketing) * Services (to outside the project) not really clear to me what you mean: Product / user service? Marketing contacts? Links to software support providers? * Documentation Independent, but using Visual Design elements * Infrastructure (contains website, similar to Services, but inside) What does this contain besides website? Native-lang teams will have their own structure - I could imagine a place where they work together not only on L10N, but on infrastructure / NGO and other topics as well. If this would be inside the marketing area depends on what they want to achieve. * UX Design (solely for the product) UX is broader - covers product and website. Even Design might be too small, as it reaches to all the development and coding areas. But in Design it is easy to find. [...] [...] The wiki worskpace should then be in http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Design -- this is where you pronounce the reasons of Design I don't think that creating very long lines of sub-categories will help us a lot. Therefore I already proposed http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design as part of the Marketing category We might think of http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Visual_Design http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/UX_Design but I'd prefer http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Design http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UX_Design with Category:Design Then presumably if there were any pages to for Design purposes the wiki pages would be created here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Design/TheNameYouWant How does this sound? Much too long paths! Imagine we create one or two more sub-levels Only if the path is important to understand the topic of the page a sub-level should be created. In all other circumstances categorizing the page in the relevant category leads to a better structure - and if a page covers two or more categories, sub-levels are no more applicable at all. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [COMMUNICATION] New Mailing List / Structure Proposal for the SC (Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?)
... just to repeat it in short... Graham Lauder schrieb: On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 23:30:01 Christoph Noack wrote: Hi all, thanks for all your replies concerning the next step mailing list. [...] PROPOSAL Set up a new mailing list called des...@libreoffice.org for the so called LibreOffice Design Team.[...] Definite +1 from me +1 Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: A home for all ... topics :-)
Hi Christoph, all, Christoph Noack schrieb: [...] Direct link: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Work_Items Thanks! By the way, how many of you are reading the blogs / planet in general? I'm just curious, because - sometimes - I do publish some information/thoughts there ... not here :-) Please keep us informed by linking to them. I for one don't have the time to look through the blog posts and their comments additionally to the vast number of important and interesting mailing list postings. Best Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [COMMUNICATION] Blogging Co.
Christoph Noack schrieb: Hi Bernhard, okay, since the last two postings are directly related to us, here are the links... Splash Screen with Incorporated Feedback http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements.html LibreOffice Logo Resources Improved http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-logo-resources.html Thanks for writing and sharing! (I should really enable mail information on changes at the main wiki pages...) Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Welcome to marketing@libreoffice.org
Hi David, welcome Andy! Andy, as you sent similar mails to the different mailing lists you subscribed to, it seems that we really lack in communication about the topic of the different lists as well as how to use them in general. So we should create a wiki page (might be moved over to the website later on) containing the necessary information. David Nelson schrieb: Hi Andy, :-) [...] Are you interested in developing content for http://test.documentfoundation.org? You probably mean the LibreOffice website (actually at http://test.libreoffice.org) instead of the TDF website. [...] Im newish to the mailing list for LibreOffice, but I would like to offer some help with LibreOffice in some shape or form going forward (but not programming at the moment). That's the way most of us are trying to support LibreOffice. [...] I mainly come from an administration background in work, but am moving more and more to my preferred role as IT becomes more utilised in my work place. If you could suggest some areas which I can assist in longterm, or suggestions, or have any questions or need any more information please email me. As you probably found out by now, we post our replies, suggestions and questions to the mailing list address and the list servers distributes them to all the people subscribed to the list. This is better than PM (personal mail) in most cases, because other people can join the discussion or know that the question has been replied already. The only one able to find out the right area for your contribution is just yourself. As David already mentioned, it depends on your interests - technical skills as you mention might be very helpful in QA (quality assurance) and documentation (network install and things like that), but these topics are discussed on dedicated mailing lists (I don't know if you are subscribed to libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org or documentat...@libreoffice.org). Here in marketing we work on different ways to improve public recognition for LibO, on branding and visual design and so on. Im not to sure of how best to start the LibreOffice community but am open for direction to the correct people etc. There are quite a number of interesting threads (follow-ups of mails created by replying to an existent mail - most mail clients allow to sort the mails by these threads) discussed here on the list (and on the other lists you subscribed to). Feel free to share your thoughts on these topics by replying to any interesting mail. To start a new topic, don't reply to an existent mail, but create a new mail and send it to the mailing list. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibO Slogan
Hi Marc, all, this topic is one I like very much :-) A few years back we had a similar activity in the OOo marketing project with lots of proposals, a voting and finally one official slogan (positioner) for OpenOffice.org. (Open. For Business) (Search the OOo marketing list archive for positioner) Marc Paré schrieb: There was some bantering back and forth a while ago with different words. Should we develop a slogan for LibO? Definitively yes! Should we develop a different slogan for each language or have a translation of one slogan for languages? Most of the slogans don't translate easily. But we should try to find a common central conclusion. Here are a few of my suggestions: LibreOffice, a suite deal. Memories brought to you by LibreOffice Take note, with LibreOffice. Penmanship begins with LibreOffice. There was the calamus, the ballpoint pen. LibreOffice, the evolution continues. LibreOffice, your creation, your company, your trust. LibreOffice ... we are all free to live. LibreOffice, we dared and we conquered. We conquered space, we created LibreOffice. Dare to imagine and you will succeed Marc Would you mind to position them on a new wiki page? As the list will probably become longer, it might be problematical to work on them here at the list. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibO Slogan
Drew Jensen schrieb: On Thu, 2010-11-11 at 20:53 +0100, Volker Merschmann wrote: Somewhat nice idea, but may I remind you to obey the branding rules: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding sure - that is part of why I placed it up here - do you think it fails? How could I make it pass - or you just want to see draft 2 and see if it is closer? ... wrong font (Didn't you mention you used the SVG source of the logo?) ... wrong aspect ratio (probably related to the point above) ... bold Office part ... dark background Please have a look at the Guidelines and Best Practices areas on the wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Guidelines_and_Best_Practices_2 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Guidelines_and_Best_Practices_3 As these rules are not carved in stone, they might be adjusted if reasonable / necessary. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [DESIGN] Poster - [was: LibO Slogan]
Hi Drew, Drew Jensen wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-12 at 01:16 +0100, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Drew Jensen schrieb: On Thu, 2010-11-11 at 20:53 +0100, Volker Merschmann wrote: Somewhat nice idea, but may I remind you to obey the branding rules: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding sure - that is part of why I placed it up here - do you think it fails? How could I make it pass - or you just want to see draft 2 and see if it is closer? ... wrong font (Didn't you mention you used the SVG source of the logo?) Yup that is it, it is directly from the logo. Probably you used the version with text (left on the SVG) instead of the one turned into paths. If you imported in in Draw, the font might have been replaced by your standard font (Liberation sans?), while the differentiation between bold and regular text wasn't imported correctly. This is obviously our fault - we shouldn't provide the text version at all... ... wrong aspect ratio (probably related to the point above) This is the problem - I didn't take the time to qualify the ratio, just pulled it out for a basic layout pass. Same as above - should work without problems if you take the path version ... bold Office part hmm - yes noticed that, I think the svg file is out of date on that..isn't it? I figured the one I was using form the wiki currently was, so didn't really sweat it yet. Not really out of date, just providing one version too much ;-) ... dark background Yes - it is, but surely we aren't going to pass on all dark backgrounds- This is a general problem with logos on colored backgrounds / photos. From the branding aspect it should stand alone, not merged with the background (and without adding shadows, 3D-effects and so on). It would work, if the logo would be taken as unity with a white background area - placing it as an opaque graphical element (with fading borders, if appropriate) on top of the image. But this will create a different general impression of the general design. It's always a question about the importance of a strict branding design comparted to the creative liberty of artists. As we are the one to define it for LibreOffice, it's up to us to decide about the priorities. I can use the white out logo but it really doesn't come across as well, IMO in a big way - still I can put one together and put it up to compare against. Saw the link in your next mail (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Miss-liberty-2.png): It keeps the language of the poster while being more consistent with the branding. I'd just propose to use the Vegur font (link at the branding wiki page) for the additional text: Might improve the general impression even better. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Website online - question on main structure for art / branding / marketing
Hi Marc, * thanks for pointing out the main question in definition of branding Marc Paré schrieb: [...] As I have always seen it (and I believe that, this is what most people's understanding of the word): branding: (Oxford Dictionary) the activity of giving a particular name and image to goods and services so that people will be attracted to them and want to buy them * He sees contemporary branding as ‘service with personality’. * This marketing campaign is the most remarkable branding exercise of all time. = In this sense the word branding is the outcome of the marketing activity that will give a name its popularity and has no relationship in the completion of the logo creation process. However, it seems that there is another definition of the word branding in the world of the craft of logo design. The branding of the logo by which colours and shades are applied to an, as of yet, unfinished logo, as a final step in the creation process. [...] If[...]branding, in the process of completing a logo, occupies a leading role in the completion of the creation of a logo design schedule, in this case is deserves a separate category unto itself but still under the art umbrella. However, if branding is meant as the activity associated with the marketing of different identifying traits of LibO, of which its logo, then branding should occupy a place as a subset of the marketing section. My understanding contains both: Branding is not only logo design and visual design in general, but covers all activities to improve brand recognition and brand awareness in public and inside the community. Despite the Oxford definition I think community awareness with the knowledge and (even more) the feeling of belonging together between the different groups of the community is part of branding activity too. In the most extreme definition branding is the umbrella for marketing, art, user experience and user interface... ... but I don't think that this will be shared by the majority here and in the other teams involved, so I don't want to define a mega category inside the community. Christoph came up with an other idea (offlist, but will present it soon here on the list) I like very much - avoiding the category branding and art at all. So please wait a bit more - it is worthwhile IMHO. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Website online - question on main structure for art / branding / marketing
Hi Stefan, * just a short notice: Stefan Weigel schrieb: Hi Michael, [...]However, from what I know, the Steering Committee decided to work with Silverstripe, and we are currently working with Silverstripe. The Steering Committee did *not* yet decide a replacement of Silverstripe by Drupal in the future. They just suggested further investigation on how Drupal could be a future solution. The Steering Committee did not decide about a time frame. (I just read the minutes again.) But I think you didn't read the mail Florian sent to the website list: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/msg00607.html it will be Silverstripe as a starter, with plans to migrate to Drupal later on So it's much more than further investigation. And about the time frame please read Florian's next mail in this thread: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/msg00610.html The plan indeed is that we hope that the Drupal folks will work on their ideas, so we can, probably in 6 months or so, migrate to it. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Website online - question on main structure for art / branding / marketing
Hi Stefan, * Stefan Weigel schrieb: Hallo Bernhard, Am 04.11.2010 23:44, schrieb Bernhard Dippold: As the author / publisher privileges can be bound to subsites, I want to discuss the main structure of the marketing related website. Main area will be http://marketing.libreoffice.org, I think. I don´t think so. From what I understand, the new concept is to use the website, created by the CMS, mainly for users focus. Developers stuff, project collaboration stuff, resources for project members et cetera are supposed to be on the wiki. I've been subscribed to the website mailing list already from the beginning - and I didn't get this impression, even if it has positive aspects of course. So, I think, we will never have something like http://marketing.libreoffice.org. [...]I don´t see any concept for having subprojects like marketing or QA or API or ux or sw or sc or whatever in the CMS. They all have their place on the wiki. As I think Christian is aware of the goals and the way the team decided to achieve them. On the website list he replied to my question: Do you plan to divide access to different areas (not only native-lang, but teams like marketing/branding, QA, ...) ? without mentioning any of the points you describe here: (http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/msg00808.html) Christian wrote: It is possible to have different access by subsites - and by default a member will only have access to the one subsite he requests access for, but of course a user can be author in de project, publisher in marketing, and subsite admn in qa project. It is also possible to have special areas within a subsite with different permission setup. that's me: I'd like to have publisher access (mainly for branding/artwork and marketing material). What would the preferred hostname be? artwork or branding? or is it meant to all be within the marketing project? That's the reason to come up with this question here. We want to avoid the mixture of user oriented information and services and project orientated information and services on the website, that we have been suffering on the openoffice.org website. I'm not fully convinced - there are areas that should be presented on the website rather than in the wiki: Press material, officially approved artwork, all the stuff that shouldn't modified but used unchanged is better located on the website but in the wiki with locked pages / resources. If we decide to replace not only the website CMS but also the wiki by Drupal (this really has not been decided - and it doesn't need to at the moment), these questions will become less important I think. This new concept is not my invention, but my impression I got from what I have been reading and hearing. So this concept should be discussed and decided on the website mailing list - it's not at all a marketing only topic. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Change icon?
Hi Lucas, all sorry for stepping in so late :-( I'd like to reply to not only this mail, but to this thread in general (including Graham's link to Paul Rand). Lucas Filho schrieb: Hello Community, [...] I think the logo Libo too simple. Expresses nothing: ( Simplicity is not at all a negative aspect of a logo. I agree with you on the expression thing, if you refer to feelings. For me the logo is more neutral and professional than associated with a strong positive feeling. It's not cold, mainly because of the rounded corners, and if we change the basic color from black to gray/anthracite (or a shading) as already proposed the general impression will be even more positive. Stronger feelings (friendly, free, happy, natural ...) can be achieved by the branding - by colors, fonts, shadings, related graphical elements and so on. We should avoid to be associated with just playing and not serious - only with a professional impression we are able to be adopted not only by individuals, but by decision makers in business, administration and government. If your expresses nothing refers to no associations, I have to disagree: Form the first sight it reminds me on the normal document icon with the folded corner. In fact I wondered about the possibility to define it as logo because of it's similarity to the document icon. Without Christoph's information on the unfolded dog-ear (http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/1001-document-icons.html) I wouldn't have associated it with an arrow or as metaphor for the transition from the folded-corner paper documents to all the future document types. But these associations are not necessary to have a good logo. What do you think of only changing the logo (icon design)? I would rather think of creating secondary graphical elements that could be integral part of our branding - perhaps even on the mimetype icons. I thought of something like a paper airplane.[...] I really like the paper plane idea. In my vision there is a LibO logo folding and becoming a paper plane flying from one person to the next... But stop - we don't want our logo to be presented in wrong perspectives. Does this included folded? Needs some discussion... Another idea could be the mascot - based on the logo too. With regard to your proposals (http://picasaweb.google.com/lucascoe/Diversos?feat=directlink): The first versions (A1 / B1) look clumsy to me, the second much better and easier to understand (A2 / B2). They are slim and look fast ;-) I would not show that the plane changed it's direction (negative association IMHO), just leave the line away. At the moment I'm not sure how the mimetype icons should look like (I really like Ivan's second proposal: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding/Mimetype_Icons/Proposals#Second_Draft), but I'm looking forward to discuss this topic in the near future... Thanks for your ideas and proposals! Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Transparent backgrounds for logos and graphics
Hi David, * I already marked your mail when I read it first, but didn't find the time to reply until now :-( David Nelson schrieb: Hi, :-) Maybe it would be good to produce the project's logo versions and graphics with a version on transparency, rather than with just a white background? The SVG source of the logo (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-Initial-Artwork-Logo.svg) already contains a transparent background, so it's easy to export .png bitmaps with Inkscape. The present high-res-logos are transparent (except the interior of the document), but they are already deprecated (wrong distance between logo and text), so we'll have to upload new bitmaps... Personally, I tend to avoid white backgrounds in my websites and desktop settings because of the glare that is punishing on the eyes after long hours of work... If you keep enough contrast between the logo and the background (see the draft of the branding guidelines: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Guidelines_and_Best_Practices_3), this is no problem at all. On a colored or darker background a white area behind the logo (rounded corners or even better a rectangle with cut-off right upper corner - we should create such a logo IMHO) could make sense. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: LibreOffice with Windows on new computers: why not?
Hi Marc, Graham, all, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2010-10-30 23:05, Graham Lauder a écrit : On Sunday 31 Oct 2010 14:24:08 Anthony Papillion wrote: On 10/30/2010 7:54 PM, Michel Gagnon wrote: [...] would it be possible to convince the major manufacturers to install the latest version of LibreOffice alongside the other software and crapware they include in their new computers? [... ] I'm not sure this would be possible right now. [...] I've even heard that Microsoft often has it as part of their agreement with OEM's that they will not have pre-install competing software. [...] I think LibO should work to get on store shelves. Keep the open source ideal but use the money from boxed sales to fund the foundation and future development. [...] I agree completely with this, however what needs to happen is to make it profitable to distributors. This is other leg of the type of business model that Ian is talking about. In my eyes there are just two reasonable possibilities: Allow distributors to sell LibO on behalf of TDF (with some kind of contract that grants us a certain percentage of revenue) or Create a community driven shop (online-shop, t-shirts and other merchandizing, contact for resellers ...) donating all the money they get to TDF. While the first way would reduce the amount of money we get per item, it reduces the risk and doens't bind our personal resources. For the latter possiblity I'd like to see volunteers interested in contributing in this area without being paid for their work. In any other case we would prefer one shop over another only because it has been part of the community earlier - different levels of dedication will not be able to measure... A distributor wholesales the software with a support package. This support package is backed up by helpdesk staff who have been through the INGOTs programme. The distributor purchases the media from a Foundation approved supplier (OpenSLX do this for the OpenSUSE boxed set for Novell), a portion of that wholesale price goes to the Foundation. Included in the boxed set is a manual as well to add value, OOoAuthors Getting Started Manuals for instance then OOoAuthors could be funded as well. As soon as you assign a value as well as add value then the retailer can add margin and in one swoop you get rid of the biggest barrier to retail sales. Same thing applies to OEM, they sell a machine with LibO preinstalled with media and Manual. On a DVD you lose the download size issue, so clipart templates, application manuals and extensions could be made available as well, packaged with a good installer with various platform versions on board and translations to suit local markets. That has value and he can sell to suit. Either bare-bones download install, (no support other than the normal and no extras) or the DVD with extras at a fair price. There are already activities for a LibO-DVD package to be downloadable as ISO (by the people creating the Germanophone PrOOo-Box in the past) - containing quite a number of additional value as documentation, clipart, templates, extensions and others. I'm quite sure that this can be used by distributors in future. [...] However, we do have to be careful not to alienate users who will later find out that the distro is a free download. They would need some kind of great value for their money .. as you said support package; clipart; manual etc. I'd ask every distributor interested in becoming a officially approved community distributor to add a line visible at their site containing the download link at our website and a comment that the application can be downloaded there free of charge. This would cause them to describe the additional value their package contains over the free download (except download costs) and people could decide if this is worthwhile... [...] [...] it may be worthwhile instead to mount more creative style campaigns such as paying OEM's to print the TDF/LibO logo with short offer of the download of the free software; a sticker banner that users could stick on their brand new box with the LibO site address and download instructions; something that looks like an on-line dating service Call me and we can get together over a nice cup of LibO etc. This may be a better way or an additional way of creating user and brand awareness. This kind of marketing strategy could become quite successful, if the general feeling is LibO is cool. But on the other hand I don't want to pay OEMs to add a sticker on their boxes. We can provide the stickers and encourage them to stick it to their products, if they are interested in supporting LibreOffice (and they might be listed on the website). A sticker LibO included might work in the same direction. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Invite a pro graphic artist to contribute logo/icon design
David Nelson schrieb: Hi, :-) Just a few questions, after having read Bernhard's reply in a separate thread: 1) Could one see a precise and comprehensive list of all the graphics needed at the present time? We should start collecting them at the wiki. There are central graphics (logo, mimetype and document icons as well as product graphics like splash screen, start center and about box) and derived graphics like web buttons and banners, CD/DVD covers, posters and stands, presentation templates and official documents/business cards as well as merchandising like t-shirts, pins, stickers and so on. The website/wiki/forum etc. should be consistent with the new graphics too... 2) What set of standard tools do you want to work with? (Gimp and Inkscape? Anything else?) I'd like to see Draw too, but for more sophisticated work with gradients and transparency it didn't work very well, when I last tried it. Anti-aliasing works now - this was the most important concern in the past. So I'd stick with Inkscape for vector and Gimp for raster images. If an artist creates his/her artwork with different tool, it should be their duty to try the export/import with one of them. 3) I saw your first drafts on the wiki [1]. Are your source files downloadable anywhere? Not yet, but I can provide mine. 4) Do you plan to keep source files in a revision control repository of some kind? The wiki provides such a repository - I'd use it if nothing speaks against it. 5) Do you have any kind of team workflow established, described somewhere so that an outsider can get into your rhythm easily? Not now - we are just at the beginning, but have some knowledge from the OOo art and branding team. It's mainly: - uploading to the wiki - proposing it to the list - discussion about possible improvements - revision/optimization - reiteration if necessary - approval by the list, if necessary (different principle opinions) higher instance (not yet defined - latest: Steering Committee) 6) Have you got any schedule figured out, with some completion deadlines? No It would be great to have a different iconset (mimetype and documents) in the final version of LibO 3.3.0, but this will not be possible in the short timeframe. 7) Have you got a list of artwork team members, so that an outsider can know exactly who he/she is collaborating with? Not now, but we should have one - ASAP ;-) 8) Is there a restricted panel of decision takers about acceptance/non-acceptance? I would like to avoid such a panel, but for quality and consistency reasons we would need to create such a board, I think. It should consist of a handful of artists, designers, UX experts and community aware people, proposed by the team (by vote?) and established by the Steering Committee (led by the voting, but not depending on it). I guess that someone willing to work with the team would probably want to establish these things with clarity beforehand... I add the other questions from your last mail here: 9) Do you have any standards/guidelines established that you want contributors to adhere to, apart from [1], [2] and [3]? Or are you open to completely different ideas? We will have guidelines, but they still need to be defined. Working on our visual goals and identity, it would probably be interesting for artists/designers to join our team at this early stage. The wiki pages you mentioned are not final yet, so I'd advise them to come to this list and discuss our and their ideas before they start working. It causes frustration if their work can't be considered as useful, just because they missed some preconditions, aimed at a different target group or misunderstood what we want to achieve with our new and consistent branding. 10) What license do you require for offered material? GPL? LGPLv2? For inclusion in the program LGPLv3+ would be appropriate, other material (as it would be uploaded to the wiki) should be licensed under CC-by-sa-3.0. I'd propose to use both of them - but there might be restrictions to the logo (I'd rather see it unchanged except of scaling). Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [tdf-discuss] LibO program icon brainstorming
Hi Christoph, all Christoph Noack schrieb: Hi Bernhard! Am Samstag, den 23.10.2010, 00:05 +0200 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: and added it as first item to the Branding Sandbox I just created: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Marketing/Branding/Sandboxaction=submit Sorry - Sending didn't work properly, so the icon draft wasn't included in this page. So I added it to the place you suggested: Thanks for creating it, but I have been a bit faster ;-) I've created the sub-page ideas for all kinds of marketing items. And, personally, I don't like the term Sandbox that much. Here is the page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Ideas at the bottom: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Ideas#First_Draft_Bernhard So what to do, merge? And then it seems a good idea to announce this on the Marketing list - but I won't be able to do so (today) I sent the first mail to the Marketing List too, so I do with this one - follow-ups there if possible... And by the way: I also included yellow color idea and updated the proposal which is based on your proposal ... Saw it - but didn't have the time to post a message requesting integration in the official LibreOffice color palette... I think this color will fit well and allow us to come back to the sub-application colors I already used for the mimetype icon draft [1] and an idea for a LibO-Box (DVD) [2]. Best regards Bernhard [1]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Ideas#First_Draft_Bernhard [2]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOBox_label.png -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Localized marketing mailing lists - based on regions rather than on languages
All, (follow-up please on the marketing list...) the US marketing list has been created to allow local marketing discussions, event preparation and coordination of marketing activities in northern America. At the moment Canadian marketing is coordinated on this list too, until these activities will be strong enough to establish a Canadian marketing list too. Even if our general marketing has to be coordinated internationally, there are good reasons to establish dedicated lists for local or regional marketing teams: - They can act and react according to the local conditions. - They can coordinate local events. - They can work with local journalists and contacts. - They can talk to each other and in public in their own language. While the last point could be achieved by language based marketing teams, the other three can be very different for marketing in different areas even though they speak the same language. Please find out, if we can achieve our goals with the following approach: 1) Create Marketing lists for regions with common marketing interest. 2) Name these lists according to the ISO country code of the most active group inside this region. 3) If other groups in this marketing area based on a different country show as much activity to define the need for another marketing list, this list can be created later on. 4) Keep contact to the neighbors by have some people of the local teams subscribed to their lists. 5) Most of the languages are mainly spoken in one area only, so there is no need to differ between language and region. (In these cases ISO code for language and country are often the same) Only for languages with wider spread localized activities we need to create different marketing lists. What I already thought of: Language: Region: Main (most active) Country:List Name: Portuguese: Portugal Portugal market...@pt.libreoffice.org South America Brasil market...@br.libreoffice.org (with BrOffice might be market...@broffice.org even better) Spanish: South Western Europe Spain market...@es.libreoffice.org North/Middle America Mexico market...@mx.libreoffice.org South America Argentina market...@ar.libreoffice.org English: North America USAmarket...@us.libreoffice.org British Islands Englandmarket...@en.libreoffice.org Australia/Oceania Australia market...@au.libreoffice.org perhaps India India market...@in.libreoffice.org perhaps South Africa S. Africa market...@za.libreoffice.org German:Central EuropeGermanymarket...@de.libreoffice.org I have no glue about Chinese and South Asian, Arabic or African languages. Their regional distribution might be localized or geographically dispersed - but with such an approach we could find a solution that fits most of the local marketing efforts. To establish such a local mailing list, there should be a team interested in local marketing activities. I didn't find to put this posting in the correct form to create a wiki page out of the content. If someone else could do, I'd be very happy. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice logo uploaded to the wiki - first branding ideas
Hi all, I've uploaded a high resolution PNG image of the LibreOffice logo to the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Logo Christoph has blogged about the logo: http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/few-days-ago-somebody-wrote-on.html So please stay tuned - we'll soon be able to start working on our branding: The basis for any graphical representation of TDF and LibO. We want to define simple rules that allow us to create a consistent visual identity while not restricting creativity of the artists and designers. I thought about a subcategory to Marketing in the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding containing a /Sandbox/ area for drafts, ideas, artwork and designs not covered by the branding rules or just too progressive to adopt for the present but heading to future releases. What do you think? Everybody interested in this topic - there is quite a lot to discuss, to create and to optimize collaboratively during the next days and weeks... Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] OpenOffice.org Roles
Hi Marc, all, Marc Paré wrote: [...] As an outsider looking in at these proceedings, it is quite clear that the TDF people who are still at Ooo are on borrowed time. I read through the minutes and I guess that you are being told to either leave or you will be asked to leave. But you must have expected this anyway. The official way to handle these requests is mentioned in the Guidelines for participating in OpenOffice.org [1] for project leads (and I assume it should be valid for other roles in OOo too): They have to be voted off by their project or in extraordinary circumstances by the direct intervention of the Community Council. Community Council members will have to removed by consensus vote of the other nine Council members [2] if they don't resign on their own (possible at any time). So if there is a group consisting of more than one council member not willing to resign, the Council Charter describes only one way to get rid of them: New elections (after 2 years of service if there is no agreement on earlier votes). I hope that we'll never come to a situation where it will be necessary to test their validity under pressure... We are still part of the OpenOffice.org community - and I don't know if Oracle really wants to test the support for the people having been active in this community for long time and deciding that it is crucial for the community's survival to have an independent foundation. So my recommendation: Don't step back - stand for the community and keep on inviting community members not able to understand our move to talk about the future of our community. Perhaps we'll find a way to keep on collaboration. If Oracle wants to revoke the community to use the OpenOffice.org trademark or if they keep on removing rights in the OOo infrastructure (... it might be just an accident, that Cor and Christoph had to be moderated to the disc...@cc mailing list ...), this would be an action visible for the whole world. I'd like to avoid negative publicity for the OpenOffice.org project, even if I might be losing the virtual home I had for the last 6 years. So please let us stay polite and open for discussion - most of the people on the OOo mailing lists have the same goals as we have: To create, as community, the best Office Suite of the world. (... and perhaps one or another might be able to convince their management how important a vivid community is for an open source project ...) Best regards Bernhard [1]: http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/guidelines.html [2]: http://council.openoffice.org/councilcharter12.html -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
