Re: [Marxism] Israel - world's most racist state?

[A.R. G via Marxism]

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I have managed to make my way to a computer and decided to just ignore
Jeff.

The two issues I mentioned that I take with some of Greenstein's writings
(but not this one in particular) -- witch-hunts for anti-Semitism and
ethnocentrism -- are as follows.

Greenstein was one of a number of liberal and pseudo-left bloggers who
showed up on Stanford SJP's page attempting to rationalize the cancellation
of the Palestinian refugee event, ostensibly because Alison Weir had shown
up to support the event, but actually because of an argument about whether
or not it was appropriate (given the repressive campus climate) for the
refugees to challenge Israel's "right to exist". We have already discussed
this incident in depth and I would refer comrades to this particular post
in which I compiled all of the relevant links:
https://www.mail-archive.com/marxism%40lists.csbs.utah.edu/msg16512.html

Since that time, Greenstein appears to have deleted a number of his own
posts on the Facebook page, including those in which another commentator
challenged him by calling attention to (groundless) accusations of
anti-Semitism against Greenstein from Zionists in the UK, as well as
Greenstein's support for Corbyn against such allegations. This is an
important point: Corbyn was being slandered as an anti-Semite for having
visited a small, pro-Palestinian community org in the UK ten years prior in
which one of the members was an obscure Holocaust denier named Paul Eisen.

After the original Alison Weir debacle (when the heads of two
pro-Palestinian orgs, JVP and USCEIO, put out statements alleging Alison
Weir to be unacceptably tolerating of anti-Semitism), there was a massive
backlash from the rank-and-file of both of those organizations, along with
a number of prominent left people (Richard Falk, Joel Kovel, Sunaina Maira,
Cindy Sheehan, David Rovics, and others): stopdivisiveattacks.wordpress.com
.

Almost immediately after this petition was started, Greenstein issued
statements condemning the condemnation of Weir, and managed to comb through
the list of hundreds of names and cherry-picked out the same Paul Eisen

(who is not one of the prominent "VIPs" listed at the top of the petition,
but one of the hundreds of names from common activists). What's more, he
later eulogized one of Alison Weir's most ardent supporters, Hedy Epstein.
Epstein, a Holocaust survivor and a civil rights activist, had worked with
Alison Weir extensively, traveled to Palestine with Weir, and organized an
event featuring Weir as the speaker
 *after the
accusations* from JVP and USCEIO. Epstein is also one of the "VIPs" listed
in the petition in defense of Weir. And yet Hedy is praised by Greenstein

as someone who knew that racism is bad, etc.

As I mentioned prior, Greenstein has also had the audacity to compare
 Richard
Falk, the former UN Special Rapporteur to Palestine to Nazi philosopher
Martin Heidegger. He makes the same accusation against Falk that were made
against Weir, namely being an apologist for anti-Semitism.

Greenstein's worst comments of course, were saved for Counter-Punch. Again,
we have already discussed on this list the absurd "statistics"
 that
Greenstein compiled to allege that Counter-Punch is part of some sort of
Nazi infiltration politics. He similarly smears Louis as an ex-Marxist
(apparently for hosting the piece I wrote about the accusations against
Weir). That is not to say that Counter-Punch has not, in fact, fucked up
occasionally (such as by publishing Diana Johnstone's awful commentary
about immigration or by granting space to a small number of unknowns to
promote conspiracy theories). But it is quite another to reduce the entire
publication to a Nazi rag and call on leftists to boycott it, let alone
citing statistics produced by a crank.

In short, Greenstein's accusations of anti-Semitism are all over the place.
He defends Corbyn from an associational attack based on having visted Paul
Eisen, and then smears the pro-Weir petition for the same reason. He
condemns Weir as an anti-Semite while praising one of her most ardent
supporters as a committed anti-racist. He defends that supporter, who
helped organize events for Weir, while attempting to rationalize shutting
down a Palestinian refugee's event ostensibly because of Weir's support
for/presence at the 

[Marxism] The sorry state of New Zealand capitalism

[Philip Ferguson via Marxism]

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New Zealand largely escaped the GFC, and yet NZ capital is in a fairly
stagnant state.  What's going on?

https://rdln.wordpress.com/2016/05/31/the-sorry-state-of-new-zealand-capitalism/
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[Marxism] Solidarity *with* the Palestinians

[Philip Ferguson via Marxism]

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"There is a strong tendency in New Zealand, for instance, to emphasise
justice for (or, even worse, sympathy for) the Palestinians rather than
solidarity with the Palestinians.  The differences between these few words,
which may seem trivial, are actually immense at a political level.

"If you are in favour of something for people, it suggests that they cannot
fight for it themselves and so you are campaigning for it on their behalf.
This essentially portrays the oppressed as passive victims.  But the
Palestinians are not. . ."

full at:

https://rdln.wordpress.com/2011/12/18/for-a-campaign-of-solidarity-with-the-palestinian-struggle/
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[Marxism] Fwd: Moshe Machover on the continuing zionist project

[Philip Ferguson via Marxism]

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-- Forwarded message --
From: Philip Ferguson 
Date: Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:06 PM
Subject: Moshe Machover on the continuing zionist project
To: swp_...@yahoogroups.com


Moshe Machover was the co-founder of the Israeli Socialist Organisation,
back in the 1960s.  The first revolutionary left current in Israel, I think.

While a few on the left have decided to shift over to left-Zionism, here's
Moshe on the meaning of zionism today:

"Zionism is what it has been from its beginning, more than 100 years ago:
in its

essence it is a political project, the project of colonising Palestine by
Jews and turning it into a nation-state with an overwhelming Jewish
majority. Israel is both a product of this project and an instrument for
its further continuation, because the project is not yet at an end: the
colonisation of Palestine is proceeding in full swing. And Israel is faced
with what Zionists call a ‘demographic peril’: there are ‘too many’
Palestinian Arabs in Palestine and not enough Jews to secure an
overwhelming majority.2

"So the agenda of militant Zionism, which is the dominant Zionist current,
is to complete the project: colonise as much land as possible and leave in
place as few Palestinian Arabs as possible. The latter would require
additional massive ethnic cleansing, on a scale similar to that perpetrated
in 1947-49. There are actually plans for doing this, if and when an
opportunity presents itself."3
Full at:
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2016/05/06/zionism-and-anti-zionism-today/
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Re: [Marxism] Mexico

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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On 7/11/16 9:27 PM, Red arnie via Marxism wrote:

Comrades,

Suggestions requested for socialist analysis of present day Mexico, Mexican 
politics and Mexican left. Unfortunately, English language only. Visiting 
Mexico City in late October. Muchos gracias.

In Solidarity,
Red Arnie



https://louisproyect.org/2013/06/07/mexico-and-the-left/

https://vimeo.com/67522596
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[Marxism] Mexico

[Red arnie via Marxism]

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Comrades,

Suggestions requested for socialist analysis of present day Mexico, Mexican 
politics and Mexican left. Unfortunately, English language only. Visiting 
Mexico City in late October. Muchos gracias.

In Solidarity,
Red Arnie

"Educate yourselves because we will need all your intelligence.
  Rouse yourselves because we will need all your enthusiasm.
  Organize yourselves because we will need all your strength."  
Slogan of L'Ordine Nuovo (The New Order) newspaper, 1919, A. Gramsci, managing 
editor.

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[Marxism] replying to a comment on my post on the Labour Party Crisis

[Gary MacLennan via Marxism]

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Thank you for commenting, Anthony. I have been following Aaron Bastani,
Paul Mason, Owen Jones and of course Richard Seymour on Twitter and
pursuing the links. The latter's comments have been the most substantial to
my mind, though I am very fond of Bastani's cheeky persona.

I did not watch the Eagle performance. Always, I think of the lines from *The
Godfather*
*Sonny*: You're taking this very personal. Tom, this is business and this
man is taking it very personal.*...**Michael*: It's not personal, Sonny.
It's strictly business.

So I took no pleasure at all from the disasters at her press conference,
nor the patently obvious fact that she is no more "electable" than Corbyn
is supposed to be. As to why the Blairites put her up, remains a mystery to
me.  Richard Seymour seems to think that this is part of a long term
strategy in a civil war.

My own reading from here, is that the Blairites have taken a terrible
gamble and miscalculated. They have forced Corbyn out on to the terrain
where he is strongest. Worse than that, as you suggest, the *zeitgeist* is
against them. It is entertaining to speculate why the Blairites have done
what they did, but ultimately it is of limited  political relevance. At
some deep level I feel they half perceive that this is a fight to the
death. And so it is because what they stand for - the dominance of
neoliberalism- is decaying rapidly.

I think we both agree that the overwhelming political fact is that the
working class is desperate for relief from the onslaughts of
neoliberalism.  And moreover, they are beginning to recognize neoliberalism
and to name the enemy as the 1%.  So TINA is collapsing, and there is a
crying need for an alternative. Corbyn may lack charisma but he does have a
program. And that is something that none of his enemies possess.

I tend to agree with the criticisms of the Corbyn program, but that is not
the point.  The political ferment around the Labour Party presents a moment
that enable us to transcend the *reform versus revolution* duality that you
so aptly mentioned.

I am highly amused btw by the propaganda around entryism into the Labor
Party with regard to the huge influx of new members, as if there were
200,000 communists and Trotskyists in the whole of Britain.

The new members and the wave of young radicals in Britain have a clear
task, now - *Defend Corbyn* - and that they will do with great passion. In
Anna Eagle's challenge, they have been presented with a golden opportunity
to deal a death blow to Blairism and to deliver a severe setback to Old
Labourites such as "Lord" Kinnock and Tom Watson.  I wish them well.

ae

Gary
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[Marxism] Interesting comment on "Rooting for the Bulls"

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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(This was from Michael Tormey who I had battled in the Boston branch of 
the SWP in 1971. I wish I could turn the clock back and gotten to know 
him better at the time.)


On a warm August afternoon in Linares Spain in 1947 a Miura bull named 
Islero and a matador called Manolete killed each other. Manolete was 
Spain's greatest matador and had amassed a fortune of almost 5 million 
murdering bulls a fantastic amount in that era however, he was very 
often in close proximity to the various bulls and had been gored 10 
times before. On this day, Manolete, lured out or retirement, faced a 
bull that punctured his thigh and femoral artery and killed him as 
Manolete was delivering his fatal thrust to the same bull. The story 
made front pages around the world though many of them did not portray 
the event as the barbaric waste that it was. I have spent several weeks 
in Barcelona and can report that soccer Barca has become number one in 
the hearts of sport fans although bullfighting like boxing while not as 
popular as it was 70 years ago still has a following. Catalan 
nationalism is abundant in Barcelona and you can engage almost anyone in 
conversation about their grievances a bit like the citizens of the 26 
county government talking about the UK. Finally, the most over rated and 
irritating American novelist has to be Ernest Hemingway especially with 
his glorification of bull fighting. I do think some of his short stories 
are outstanding but as a novelist I'll root for the bull.

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Re: [Marxism] Israel - world's most racist state?

[A.R. G via Marxism]

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Paul and others interested in a longer discussion can contact me off list
about my personal disagreements over some of Greenstein's writings, I have
no intention of feeding Jeff's trolling.

On Monday, July 11, 2016, Jeff via Marxism 
wrote:

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> *
>
> On 2016-07-11 19:54, A.R. G via Marxism wrote:
>
>>
>> [Tony Gre] does not do so in this
>> particular piece but has used ethnocentric rhetoric in other writings
>> portraying the Palestinian struggle as an internal Jewish community issue
>>
>
>  has in turn informed his accusations of
>
>> anti-Semitism against Richard Falk, Counter-Punch, and others
>>
>
> I am not at a computer but I can prepare a more substantive reply later.
>>
>
>
> Yes, I'm waiting for that answer too, though I'm also waiting for
> substantiation of "witchhunts for
> anti-Semitism and racist privileging of Jewish voices" as also charged by
> Amith. I think it's rather disgusting that a person not on this list can
> just be lied about without accountability. Perhaps that happens more than I
> know about, but when it's someone whose writings/record I am familiar with,
> then I'm not going to just remain silent when I see them wronged in this
> way!
>
> Also, I do not believe Greenstein, or anyone else I know of, has accused
> Counterpunch of antisemitism. The last time I mentioned Counterpunch in a
> post I specifically noted that they were NOT tolerant of antisemitism and
> removed an antisemitic article when they got around to reading it (after
> publishing it on the web). The problem with Counterpunch is that they lean
> toward a left-right alliance which makes them willing to publish
> right-wingers attempting to appeal to leftist causes. In some cases these
> right wingers are openly antisemitic (like in that case, or where they
> published Atzmon himself) but more often they are just allied with
> antisemites. And as has been pointed out, the biggest danger in this regard
> isn't antisemitism itself (promoting harm to Jews) but tarring the
> Palestinians with that label thus completing Israel's primary propaganda
> campaign.
>
> - Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
- Amith
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Re: [Marxism] Israel - world's most racist state?

[Jeff via Marxism]

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On 2016-07-11 19:54, A.R. G via Marxism wrote:


[Tony Gre] does not do so in this
particular piece but has used ethnocentric rhetoric in other writings
portraying the Palestinian struggle as an internal Jewish community 
issue


 has in turn informed his accusations of

anti-Semitism against Richard Falk, Counter-Punch, and others


I am not at a computer but I can prepare a more substantive reply 
later.



Yes, I'm waiting for that answer too, though I'm also waiting for 
substantiation of "witchhunts for
anti-Semitism and racist privileging of Jewish voices" as also charged 
by Amith. I think it's rather disgusting that a person not on this list 
can just be lied about without accountability. Perhaps that happens more 
than I know about, but when it's someone whose writings/record I am 
familiar with, then I'm not going to just remain silent when I see them 
wronged in this way!


Also, I do not believe Greenstein, or anyone else I know of, has accused 
Counterpunch of antisemitism. The last time I mentioned Counterpunch in 
a post I specifically noted that they were NOT tolerant of antisemitism 
and removed an antisemitic article when they got around to reading it 
(after publishing it on the web). The problem with Counterpunch is that 
they lean toward a left-right alliance which makes them willing to 
publish right-wingers attempting to appeal to leftist causes. In some 
cases these right wingers are openly antisemitic (like in that case, or 
where they published Atzmon himself) but more often they are just allied 
with antisemites. And as has been pointed out, the biggest danger in 
this regard isn't antisemitism itself (promoting harm to Jews) but 
tarring the Palestinians with that label thus completing Israel's 
primary propaganda campaign.


- Jeff








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Re: [Marxism] Yet more thoughts on the British Labour Party

[Anthony Hartin via Marxism]

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Dont apologise Gary, I think what is going on politically in the UK is 
quite profound. I just spent the evening talking to a group of Brits 
about what is going on in the UK and noone seems to know what the end 
result will be. I think we are seeing a decades long process of economic 
decline, austerity, main stream media dripfeed of racism, Blairite 
betrayal of Labour's core reach a crisis point. But its also a crisis 
for capitalism in its seeming final neoliberal form.


I listened to 5 seconds of Eagle announce her bid. Its clear that last 
week has been spent in coaching her by blairite spin doctors. 
Nevertheless I immediately liked her. I think we shouldnt demonise Eagle 
and instead focus on the politics as Corbyn seems to understand.


The Momentum phenomena is largely a result of a huge vacuum on the Left. 
I think this is a defining battle that transcends traditional boundaries 
of what is reformist or revolutionary so everyone should get onboard to 
support it.


Tony
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[Marxism] Israel - world's most racist state?

[A.R. G via Marxism]

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Hi Paul,

Short answer is that from what I can make out, he does not do so in this
particular piece but has used ethnocentric rhetoric in other writings
portraying the Palestinian struggle as an internal Jewish community issue
by citing historic left Jewish opposition to Zionism (i.e. the Bundists,
etc.) I believe that that framework has in turn informed his accusations of
anti-Semitism against Richard Falk, Counter-Punch, and others (if not
Atzmon). Some of those accusations have been contradictory. I do not think
he is a "Zionist infiltrator" as Atzmon and others have insinuated and
reject that kind of rhetoric.

I am not at a computer but I can prepare a more substantive reply later.


-- 
- Amith
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Re: [Marxism] Israel - world's most racist state?

[Paul Flewers via Marxism]

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Re ARG's comments. In what way does Tony Greenstein's criticisms of Zionism and
the state of Israel constitute an 'ethnocentric perspective'? 

Kindly explain yourself.

Paul F
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[Marxism] Fwd: A Saudi Morals Enforcer Called for a More Liberal Islam. Then the Death Threats Began. - The New York Times

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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A fascinating article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-islam-wahhabism-religious-police.html
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Che Guevara's political relevance today | International Socialist Review

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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On 7/11/16 11:01 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

I remember when Sam's book first came out, Solidarity sponsored a panel
on the book with him and Dave Finkel, editor of Against the Current. I
assumed, as they both came out of the same Shachtmanite tradition
broadly speaking, that they'd be on the same wavelength. In fact the
most memorable part of the event for me was when Dave said quite firmly,
in response to Farber's criticism of Bolshevik measures, that they had
no choice in the face of intervention, starvation, destruction of the
economy and decimation of the working class.



I wonder what will happen after Farber croaks. These poor souls will now 
be forced to read, think, and write about Cuba on their own without him 
to make the case for them. I guess there's always Mike Gonzalez.

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Che Guevara's political relevance today | International Socialist Review

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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I remember when Sam's book first came out, Solidarity sponsored a panel on
the book with him and Dave Finkel, editor of Against the Current. I
assumed, as they both came out of the same Shachtmanite tradition broadly
speaking, that they'd be on the same wavelength. In fact the most memorable
part of the event for me was when Dave said quite firmly, in response to
Farber's criticism of Bolshevik measures, that they had no choice in the
face of intervention, starvation, destruction of the economy and decimation
of the working class.
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[Marxism] Reminder

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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Comrades should not put other Marxmail subscribers name in the subject 
heading.

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[Marxism] Prashad's latest on Syria

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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He's now to the left of Jeff Mackler; Vijay admits there are civilians
being bombed in Aleppo, Mackler says they're all terrorists.

On the other hand Vijay lets the US off the hook, saying that Kerry is
right when he snapped at aid workers "what do you want us to do?" in the
face of Russian jets/artillery/etc. Of course the simplest and most just
thing they could do is send caravans of food and aid trucks across the
Russian/Syrian checkpoints. But that assumes Obama gives a fuck about
Syrian lives.

The interview:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content=view=31=74=16726
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[Marxism] Fwd: Saying sorry: What's behind Turkey's new thaw with Russia - CSMonitor.com

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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Russia is “going deeply” into this reconciliation, and Putin’s decision 
to meet Erdoğan so quickly “means Putin believes there are serious 
grounds to achieve serious things,” says Pavel Felgenhauer, a defense 
columnist for Novaya Gazeta in Moscow.


Russia, he says, wants Turkey's help to limit NATO presence in the Black 
Sea, and is likely trying to take advantage of a NATO ally that has been 
“given the cold shoulder” by the West and America, on issues from 
European Union membership to Turkey’s crisis with Russia. Turkey also 
has been alienated by US backing for certain Kurdish factions fighting 
the self-declared Islamic State in Syria – including American special 
forces units who were photographed fighting alongside and wearing the 
insignia of a Kurdish group deemed “terrorists” by Ankara.


“Russian intentions are clear: Russia wants Turkey to be a very 
important partner in the Middle East, like Israel, like Tehran and 
Turkey, all together under Russian auspices,” he says. “I mean, nations 
that barely talk to each other, but all friends of Russia, and acting 
together under Russian auspices, pushing the Americans out and creating 
a new order in the Middle East.”


full: 
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2016/0707/Saying-sorry-What-s-behind-Turkey-s-new-thaw-with-Russia

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[Marxism] Fwd: America: jobs, profits and the stock market | Michael Roberts Blog

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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Moreover, the job increases were not in areas of higher pay or higher 
productivity.  For instance, of the 19.6 million jobs in America’s good 
producing sector, in June there were only 9,000 new jobs, with none in 
construction, a fall in energy and mining and a tiny gain in 
manufacturing.  By contrast, there was a gain of 59,000 waiters, 
bartenders and bus boys in the leisure and hospitality category.


full: 
https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2016/07/11/america-jobs-profits-and-the-stock-market/

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