[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A reminder. If you include more than 3 recipients in a post to Marxmail, it will be held in a moderation queue. We instituted this years ago to put a stop to comrades cc'ing to other mailing lists since that led to all sorts of confusion with non-subscribers replying, etc. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I've just removed Michael Probsting from Marxmail. It is clear by now that he is gone off the deep end. Generally, I have low tolerance for self-styled Bolshevik leaders but considered Michael to be a positive contributor on the whole. But this insatiable need to promote a bizarre analysis akin to what I just wrote about with respect to the American SWP is driven half by politics and half by psychology. Enough. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * My advice is to avoid getting into debates with RKOB over coronavirus because clearly the differences are too great. The list can be a valuable resource as a source of information. There is no need to try to refute RKOB's posts since clearly they are not resonating. If I were Michael, I'd probably let it drop since if after posting at least 40 posts with this line, he's wasting his time. It only reflects a certain need to educate backward layers on his part. I know all about this from my own experience as an SWP member 50 years ago. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Sure, Louis. I was not aware of this. I will take this into account in the future. Am 20.03.2020 um 15:11 schrieb Louis Proyect via Marxism: POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Reminder. We try to limit posts to six a day. I understand that this coronavirus stuff is urgent, but I have already seen arguments being repeated. I was about to say something myself earlier but realized that I would only be repeating myself. Okay? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/aktiv%40rkob.net -- Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG (Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net) www.rkob.net ak...@rkob.net Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314 -- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/20/20 10:11 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Reminder. We try to limit posts to six a day. I should have written six a day per subscriber. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/19/20 12:16 PM, Walter Daum via Marxism wrote: Yesterday Ralph Johansen raised two issues: how to address the Sanders enthusiasts; and what about the Democratic Party majority who are wary of Sanders’ far-reaching reforms? I’ll take up just the first for now. Agreed, the Bernie activists aren’t bound by the No Vote for Capitalist Parties principle. This particular document wasn’t addressed to them directly, although it does indicate our approach. It was addressed to a left audience (and therefore posted here) in order to explain why our traditional position needs changing – a position we’ve shared with many on the left. The Sanders movement is an important development that no one on the left, including my group, found a satisfactory (i.e., revolutionary) way to connect with. The DSA by and large dove in uncritically. The ISO in 2015-16 stayed aloof, counterposing the Green Party. But that went nowhere, since the Sanders activists believed that his campaign offered genuine hopes of transforming America politics and achieving concrete reforms that could relieve the economic precariousness they were facing. The Greens weren’t a contender. Socialist Alternative straddled those two approaches, pretending not to be working in the Dem Party but in reality behaving more like DSA. Both SAlt and the ISO called for Sanders to run independently, knowing full well (I assume, since he made it absolutely clear) that he would support the Democratic nominee, both last time and this. That meant reinforcing illusions in bourgeois politics. What should have been tried, in my opinion, is an approach like Lenin’s “critical support.” Not just offering a few criticisms (or even worse, “reserving the right to criticize” without doing so), but telling the truth about the racist, imperialist, anti-working-class Dem Party and the candidates who accommodate to it. We and others could not get much of a hearing if we said it’s a capitalist party so don’t vote for its candidates. We might have gotten a hearing if we’d said, OK, let’s put Sanders to the test of office. Let’s elect him and see whether the Democrats adopt his program and whether he mobilizes his movement to come out into the streets to fight for it. He hasn’t done that so far, even though there were several key opportunities during Trump’s reign when that deserved to be done. Why hasn’t he? Because his strategy is purely electoral. His “political revolution” means political in the everyday bourgeois sense, i.e.,electoral. But his supporters will more easily see the limitations of his strategy if he gets into office. That would be a step forward toward creating an independent working-class party. Now that Sanders is in all likelihood out of the race, the issue for the Sanders activists is what to do next. This I think our statement does deal with. We’re not advocating critical support for Biden in the Leninist sense. Voting for him would be purely defensive, to get rid of Trump. A few years ago it might have been comforting to think that Trump’s incompetence tempered his malevolence. In the present crisis they reinforce each other. Keeping him in power would not only boost the drive to autocracy, as we argue in our statement. It could doom us all. This week I have sent private messages to 2 other Marxmailers about the need to skip lines between paragraphs. I am now making it public in order to save me the trouble of contacting others who might not be aware of the importance of readability. Walter's post is difficult to read. If you are reading an article or a book, there are lines in between grafs. We should follow the same standards here. In addition, you need to clip extraneous text. There have been too many posts recently that failed to do this. We instituted this formatting rule back in the early 2000s when many people were still using phone lines to go online. By removing extraneous text, the mail downloaded quicker. Even though most people are using high-speed connections now, I still want to keep this rule in place because brevity is the soul of wit. Thank you very much. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/16/20 6:05 PM, Alan Ginsberg via Marxism wrote: March 16, 2020 http://secure-web.cisco.com/1yx-HgfZZafGV1o0Eot0VhH7QiSjYoEpLzTnGf_nZIARSGx0ZJnnfW08WhFQT_sAnGaOs2b-4u2KaZ82iN7FZFJJC30kxkwiL-ZZ72XNOa7eiKPrmGZUCVNuHFOoHyAGHeJi8Aj4RsrkMCpBGh5HidlQVyWXGdS8id39Qw037KM1FZdoq3tab2SEpYJMZk6d_nlPmFIZug30-U6Xtj3P31vC78aJ1yuczrrpQy6urfxZi96Qp5fRMV6D9nXG7mqpWO0vAWi8TKrzOnNSkZzQhqsykTCq5TRy39z4TKO-qetB-R0h-vuQ7C26RdtRDZxd5JauY-V7M8Jd4K1B9Z2NQ30uE4o9XUarGfHNGPRQR_s47kR_AN_1nRPpk552agCpA/http%3A%2F%2Finsurgentnotes.com%2F2020%2F03%2Fintroduction-3%2F For newer subscribers, this warning message is generated because of a flaw in the U. of Utah security system supplied by Cisco Systems that generates false positives. You should always click it without worries. You will be prompted to go to the website or not. Since it is part of a message from a Marxism list subscriber, it will be legitimate like this one, directing you to a symposium on the late Noel Ignatiev who was a friend and comrade of mine. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 2/6/20 2:34 PM, Andrew Stewart via Marxism wrote: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UuPJEwAgg9b7PiVkneOszD9SDm-n4il_4KqDcGcDuxLIf9KKuOEDExIU7MctZ94YujnkbMHEti8kfhrcrVu-zmtpUAXRi8dFy7nGsLsnM1O-Og3Z_hBxXwAMr1fSIeH4vX7aCMU5z9G2yKS9N018UEmM7CDMbh2ECHRZffLPfcAQy6DjB6gbVta_9NN1_27y_RTcZll_Mo-MfpbOsknD4VjYlvele6t-piUtflSAl4xb3QAGXiJOVoK8PCS02XVr0XJLoFLv_V7tkw8PMkKwndhZ6nK1Dq3Gd8iSas8L-Xg2hYcG7iCZutTnK7j3VkhS_L76yQXFNDuvvXvQl4tUhThiRxWDiMbspO-r0JjLq7lYOrCRNHcUxI4rCKqhkcjr/https%3A%2F%2Fwashingtonbabylon.com%2Fwhy-hollywood-sucks-starship-troopers-children-of-men%2F Best regards, Andrew Stewart - - - Subscribe to the Washington Babylon newsletter via https://secure-web.cisco.com/1u8nK6_o6FxgCe6xZd31R3Y4krt5IM9KeECN_ZR1FcTuGP_vBd9ecm8PVgwgUMMNgVzZ5APGPuWYRHmRC3hdHU044LKxAHWRRn5ilglsBsE8ahXj2OhtA_eog-j5Go-Ut4D6BT7bUHznUY9D3dKw7bD1Z5e-l2QD3ipG2DEolTygMP3nRuu_Mw914xEVNK9-5viopN0okl95a7hjOHspU1D4HSXxISzpw2MkCTA9CQ2BLEut4ZfWFfnZwmB1h3SExLZiQwFLtxAYiB3LkGBOQGiy1O3GI80YLvyYSHd6WyYfg8xh8P6sQpqwtP1G8b1tH27wl5xQ9RqRRfRxsGRVHVpsqGo9Oa8821Z8XFKtuJgKZH4AlM58Pq0D8VAm2upyz/https%3A%2F%2Fwashingtonbabylon.com%2Fnewsletter%2F For new subscribers, please don't be intimidated by the "suspicious message" business. The computer systems at the U. of Utah, where Marxmail resides, have a quirky anti-malware system from Cisco that generates false positives. Clicking a link above or any other with the scary looking link will only result in you being connected to a Cisco page that asks if you want to see the page you are being protected from, as if messages to Marxmail originated in a Moscow basement. Just click the link on the Cisco page saying that you want to go ahead and everything will be just fine. I promise. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Louis, that's not my experience. Instead of being connected to a page that asks permission to go to the website it deems suspicious, I always get a Cisco Security page that simply says "404 Bad Request". I have to use google to get to the actual page. On 6 Sep 2019 at 22:06, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: > > A reminder. > > When you see that scary "suspicious message" thing, it only means > that > the malware-protection system at U. of Utah has issued a "warning". > It > is not a real problem since the target links are ALWAYS legitimate. > All > you need to is click the U. of Utah-generated link and then you will > be > connected to a page that asks your permission to go to the website > it > deemed suspicious. A bit of a hassle but only 15 seconds worth. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/jgreen%40communistvoice. > org --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A reminder. When you see that scary "suspicious message" thing, it only means that the malware-protection system at U. of Utah has issued a "warning". It is not a real problem since the target links are ALWAYS legitimate. All you need to is click the U. of Utah-generated link and then you will be connected to a page that asks your permission to go to the website it deemed suspicious. A bit of a hassle but only 15 seconds worth. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 8/5/19 10:54 PM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism wrote: At the risk of being repetitive, these frightening looking links are harmless. Just click them and you will be prompted to approve going to the pages Phil forwarded. This will be the last time I remind comrades of this. Since we have no control over Cisco's stupid security system, we just have to live with it. Text of oration at Dungiven oration for INLA Volunteer, hunger striker Kevin Lynch, Sunday, July 28: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1JvNAjTPgoseBducyT9P1NzlMSEwSHlmvtnsaW1Is4T05HhOtno-WDXZu1YEnTX7uy8Ya4vK1opVNF8k2Krh0H3Ff67pBqRh5HekeeKxEwcOl851PfsasWG9jVZAD35z8YHJ6lP5Ty02orBw8yT8HOoum9GNmFqK4hkn9UaDgBkXBy1CfXn9VKfneaZqK9XPQDCTjIvKKrEtH_QxhBW-5c85vOwwxqBCxF5bIW4wmvs3dcInILDkW9fqsyIAzJqAHWhdsuCWBuq-R4o1b1N4lyZF2LxLIBirXSpZSScH72-j2o7wPjTbcje0HakEz0Gy7podYcSQCPXRxvfLp9xcdPryEZ2Z89ZHNgQUbAbFAQwhrUEc2X0GXoYCCgODCx0K4UbDJIo-bmKoVBOYRcu5Tkw/https%3A%2F%2Ftheirishrevolution.wordpress.com%2F2019%2F08%2F02%2Ftext-of-main-oration-at-dungiven-commemoration-for-inla-volunteer-kevin-lynch-sunday-july-28%2F Support August 10 anti-internment protest, Belfast: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1aqBKsCC7yDX9N2iNklOBn4NLy1rqRDix9JVjnLXIygQpS-cwkzmh_FcEz9ZTSfojRgY5c964eAMPN8NkayFlSb__0sDpiMoDENtTQ4seSsMQ2m1RCdadpdaGsT0z-AgW0W7AZwku-CBx8HbEDE87Evjozac5Ie7ZDNbQqU0BQPhq4bx6wlvOOmfhi-MWt_UvlkjBEh_fsGdsFYWrntVv-hg_STMDMPMd_qVdF4Xia3reQPzVzgQEDufFv3I13DI49dceIReAKalVcT1rte9LHkC3eGxJY3ZI8fVzo2225NNU8CASXQjE6kR-X7TlWpoU5BHfQK3GC1Xy2A63xrxG4pZidg3oVObvnjFhzbyhC08K3KTaxuZRSvnbt63G7sCk-Ea1olWSgBpo7FSM6SywTA/https%3A%2F%2Ftheirishrevolution.wordpress.com%2F2019%2F08%2F04%2Fsupport-august-10-anti-internment-protest-belfast%2F "They or we must quit this island" - James Fintan Lalor on the landlord class (1848): https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UBIYyDtD-Ay9tseJMrWJA2IFS0NGRmsymaFIz-iQ6DtxWX4jWZXo6RFio1fTYK0ZbkPYhLQl1ARNiV3HxTXUibqcyZGqWNiipI7qN7Rqn1JI8pfNmhJQ4SjfeK4iM-irJihzE5Y5CceBMPrf37T7Pr8zGy8-qxZUntvGw8HBf6nouxl0RJFYDGX8HUBk_Ofth6FYxX5-1HHPIeqaUCDVmAvL84_uIH_0esSNKf_TtBtsKIyXa4cy5LJYSRDOqBdn6Er1XLqLKxuOWEDBk_5ul3pBmDvZByBnenLg9ucIHdv2LqOTq7iB3f-EM1bJljdi0bYXCfzpV5A3SC_4lJVNNp_jG6_gP_K1eMCb_DYPynkXg7rTzrchWJ3-hfl3xesaojHMeT2hLygXKvF52DF7sg/https%3A%2F%2Ftheirishrevolution.wordpress.com%2F2019%2F07%2F29%2Fthey-or-we-must-quit-this-island-fintan-lalor-on-the-landlord-class-june-1848%2F From the slums of Dublin to the battlefields of Spain - Brigadista Bob Doyle: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1PIgR61wgew14tGIbP1aXE8od8gVA-9SANDhuYcjr-UEhdcVvokqCtIYeRe3VdcRLZEAhr_CYsEQFWryAtlZ8Hv38rvytRRtqYsxg3rmbbEX_qqz1oIvyF-1OuXFMHcJXXrOYksxRO7gxSawsB4t61i-hP_7_h6K7ubZKfvD_192eF-f_y0zd4ct_b1JkEVjVNwH2ax7SlsVkG4yXEloehlNDxZf5YR-pkNYK5UKccBR4KMvQu_uR66WhVN1RAr410g3DH9wAHi-isenDwtw6Ob6r7NUqsajxsnEZQEi8Xxef41Tp97LWlF_XTCo5opKoOJ7VGKSivQRYP1bg-dpznpi0YircEmB4nyiTvd3CfREQzcNMAUMKeERI6ZGldfZcFhOfaGL_GRWLUhs00_fGlw/https%3A%2F%2Ftheirishrevolution.wordpress.com%2F2019%2F07%2F24%2Ffrom-the-slums-of-dublin-to-the-battlefields-of-spain-brigadista-bob-doyle-1915-2009%2F The political evolution of the Provisionals: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1_XLGhSULY9zmQ_FlZ1WFUv7zG7d_Lwez6zIJlCJ7njjEGmzc1FMhkwavXZuagqPle5ASJYjsIBVE1LHEcLTBoUPx6-RyXDSzM0T9Xb447It26xGmtSnT7rhpzqtD8qn5PNzLCyCi0zNI6gs3dS87jL9Fxf3ji_pTbj6i8Tp1RtfsrfTYBIgYerE91sunY_swiJO5Aurvr1Z4si0cWsAOvdnFjjFBeAGpg_VFGOvMU0G2dV1AOnDRQpwjjTJOUH2IhAmltek--v_wutTaWQXl6U5FVDATkwAPhufg2u4MuG5bNMqvk1JZ_aCkDGmaM-_Gl2RQwVYbt8CNGIEsvwq_NkAXqaEsMqWQiWeNvYKjG70vwnbwc646yVodhrUK8GxTCFDJ5yJgTeLU6lUODxp_Nw/https%3A%2F%2Ftheirishrevolution.wordpress.com%2F2019%2F07%2F07%2Feddie-oneill-and-mark-hayes-on-the-political-evolution-of-the-provisionals%2F When CS gas came to the floor of the House of Commons: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1nu4nUrIn6d6PNcqTlNwWnggsJAoGONwYV02vP9KFh6kZ9gHvkksvDC98xYYPIpMaFwBdkhBYh1txK6RqKhpOtKcnkiyRGkqkbDeQlMRMbPDniDL8xNi5_V5G38GWZPdRATqjb-ISRC_cHcO8LsQ_KCTcQR_beGO2u5Vh4q4yMvgeHWWt-qDkoz2Q7KNAiR85tkBtkkNlVg94owSmKtqHDr5GlLwVVmYSd-GbrgnO8x6ot2G1J6L1NDbE_eA-hhdzxKNZHEYBheGoZkkjIbRT0eV6jQ_1zccKjHC01PDHoquHviseMC9TwTef-ce8glK7gUOuJsomub3UmV03GhAnVscNQcem3MQkFE8wtQDBQg0si0agisSNWhExstEQ9McwCD8INAAMRRR6boETQ5oJiQ/https%3A%2F%2Ftheirishrevolution.wordpress.com%2F2019%2F07%2F01%2F6696%2F _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lnp3%40panix.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/24/19 1:49 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote:\ The reader can’t help but empathize with Tiitu and her fight to create and maintain a community. This is everyone’s fight. Most of us on this planet but face the basic need of affordable housing. Tiitu, in her youth, stumbles upon what could be the answer for her in the long term. A block of homes are available to the right buyers, those with a certain determination and persistence. Tiitu understands that she must be willing to not only rebuild her home from scratch but also be ready to fight the local bureaucracy and keep the forces of gentrification at bay. Tiitu Takalo charms and informs with her words and pictures: part history, part memoir, and part quirky observation. Takalo offers up a most inviting narrative that just goes to show that, no matter where one lives, whether in Seattle or in Finland, we are more alike than we are different. We all need shelter. We all have an instinct to fight for our lives. And it is all too often the least fortunate going up against the powers that be. Takalo brings all of that home for the reader. https://secure-web.cisco.com/1hdoU0j3eGv0as4BBRpVCnJeoBZ2-W2HPoJ7yZlD_9y9wE1y1Qy4Q8vVNScruYj0lYd6xJXxB1XM6bHQoS2MrvH0aImR_4-NI-q1cS9ZSD_dkD79jlPLJkaSaDDG0EY625R6m0sCMXJbkwCVWzNBvJF3wSegnPVNfeSlFMEBIJ7HUYAobSP0eC2gHnLFbNNxDH4VeI8bswG0wJU8V40bYoQ5H7Q5iNV0S8R743HZaIPrNDfpx3eS3m4auQYgWwV9Fd23U_fL8MeA3H5MPX781sMhmjMnkAAivTDUmtKg74E_wlB-DZURiOgPeYZ-wCQy_i44Brqh2eiagaRZpHrJ-EobCV-vJqPTzKgH78fQD2rAWl2ly3XCerm3BsdLCLPf7/https%3A%2F%2Fcomicsgrinder.com%2F2019%2F07%2F23%2Freview-me-mikko-and-annikki-by-tiitu-takalo%2F Just another reminder. Click the link above and you will be prompted by the security software to allow access to the website that was viewed (falsely) as "suspicious". These links look scary but are routine. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/22/19 2:44 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1owzT-ckNDAJcDIY2NsW2mzunsnRe8Yx2_PKJ_esgU6t7QgK_bIIGgkfYS311VtU2ZxcSRcuxdfRxecMX-kGZ--g3h1yTQLbVCPybUUt7R-mhbUzMW0upbU9YiqwLk6Ngl-8qsuBdpBkhndAxUoer4eJKwDjopaEvA9rn5L8NR8XMGA90oiFJS8bbFibzxb1TK4kQ7BwNaa0LsWBy-27sGLICUCbwttYT7GnqKPcYjFMkwowYymXvOuJfEgbRfVXOjFLAzTDG4Sm5TT8IH8acF18i_AZdQeB3XW1Ql1L3EQvpo3yj-LPFruH_0BVLDo7SclCvaJ953sGd3FETGTOQpBpGjSZA2_hNxcT_8idk5d0YavzKTTMx9xxOEPrl4Ab7/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Famericas%2Fstudent-thesis-presentation-underwear-cornell-university-new-york-a8348716.html Reminder. This is only a warning. If you click the link above, you will be directed to the Cisco website and be allowed to proceed to the article if you click "yes". _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note follow-up
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Just out of curiosity, I clicked that "suspicious message" link that comes up from time to time and that cropped up more frequently than usual in the last day or two. What happens is that you are directed to the Cisco website (Cisco is the vendor of the security software) and allowed to go to the website if you click "yes". Since everything that is posted here is trustworthy (like an article on economist.com), I encourage comrades to simply go through this exercise when you see a "suspicious message" warning. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * We seem to be having some kind of technical issues with links being flagged as "suspicious" by U. of Utah's security system. For the time being, try to remember not to send URL's to the list until we get it sorted out. It may take a while to get IT to fix it. I'll try to figure out a workaround but in the meantime, let's try to avoid it. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Perhaps you meant me, J.Masko? I was unaware of this as I mostly lurk. Ty On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 5:25 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > I just purged a number of messages from A. Stewart and J. Pasco from the > moderator's queue because they had more than 3 recipients. In the > future, please stay within 3 recipients if you want to avoid being held > in a moderator's queue. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/mediacrusher%40gmail.com > -- J.A. Masko "The challenge of modernity is to live without illusions and without becoming disillusioned." Antonio Gramsci. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Will do. This was the result of my using email via the phone, with which I'm not familiar (nor particularly happy). On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 8:25 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > I just purged a number of messages from A. Stewart and J. Pasco from the > moderator's queue because they had more than 3 recipients. In the > future, please stay within 3 recipients if you want to avoid being held > in a moderator's queue. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I just purged a number of messages from A. Stewart and J. Pasco from the moderator's queue because they had more than 3 recipients. In the future, please stay within 3 recipients if you want to avoid being held in a moderator's queue. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 9/23/18 4:53 PM, ioannis aposperites via Marxism wrote: You have received a secure message from University Of Utah Health. *The University of Utah Health takes the protection of your health information very seriously. To avoid having our email communications opened by unauthorized recipients, and to comply with Federal law, email messages from our institution are encrypted.* I have no idea why this happened. Les Schaffer and I will be monitoring this. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Just for comrades' information, we are dealing with a strange political/technical issue. RKOB tried to post a message to the list that has neither shown up or is being held in the moderator's queue. It is about the USA meeting with Assad. Since the RKOB website is not having a problem, I advise those interested in reading the article to go to https://www.thecommunists.net/ and read the article at the top of the list titled "High-Ranking U.S. Delegation Meets Assad’s Security Chief". _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Comrades have to pay attention to the reminder to clip extraneous text. This got caught in the moderator's queue because it exceeded 35k, a result of the previous emails that got reposted in their entirety. I am only including the whole thread just for illustration's sake. So REMEMBER TO CLIP EXTRANEOUS TEXT. On 7/23/18 8:25 AM, John Reimann via Marxism wrote: I've seen the same statistics on Republican voters' approval of Putin. I think it has a lot to do with similar social and political attitudes (anti-gay, religious, etc.) But in any case, I think that those statistics actually support my contention. The reason is that the old, mainline conservatives in the Republican Party have lost out. This is exactly the wing that represents the capitalist class. Take what happened in the presidential primaries. The mainstream conservatives and the wing of the US capitalist class they represented had it all set up for Jeb Bush to win the nomination. It was a sure thing. Guaranteed. We know how well that worked out. Now, we hear it over and over again - how different Republican politicians are afraid to stand up to Trump because he will get them "primaried". In other words, the next time they run for reelection, he'll mobilize their base to get them knocked out in the primaries. In fact, this is a common theme heard over and over in US politics - how Trump has completely captured the Republican Party. How the traditional conservatives have capitulated to him. This is why a series of Republicans are not running again - they don't want to get "primaried" but they fear that continuing to capitulate to Trump will tarnish their future careers and reputation. Probably the foremost Republican strategist, Max Boot, has actually left the Republican Party because of this. In other words, the capitalist class has not only lost control over the presidency; they have lost control over their preferred political party. (Not that the Democrats won't do when needed.) This is a huge development. On the US-Russian rivalry: Even the closest capitalist allies are always rivals also to some degree or another. I agree that the basis for the US/Russian rivalry is not the same as it is with the US/Chinese rivalry. There, economic competition is clear. But look at the whole issue of the US alliance with Germany and other Western European countries. Is there not a conflict there with a Russian alliance? Yes, maybe the whole world order can get shaken up and a whole new alignment could develop. But it seems to me that this could not happen without a reordering of the pecking order - who is on top. And that cannot happen without a real settling of accounts, meaning without a new world war. I think the capitalist class in the main dreads something like that too. Meanwhile, the daily attacks on Trump continue. NBC just did a short segment on Trump's role as a money launderer for the oligarchs. As I said, if this starts to come out, then all hell could break loose, but maybe they'll have to bring it out. If Trump is not a "traitor" to their class, then we have to explain why they are attacking him in such strong language. It certainly is unprecedented. John Reimann On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 2:26 AM, mkaradjis wrote: Lots of good discussion. John and others are emphasising how "treasonous" Trump appears to be from the point of view of much of the ruling class; his highly idiosyncratic nature; his financial ties to the Russian oligarchy etc. My post wasn't aimed at suggesting he was a "perfect" representative of a wing of the ruling class, whatever that may look like; and probably some of his wing would prefer he didn't come with the personality defects and sheer brazenness etc. But on the ties to the Russian oligarchy for example. Is that unique to Trump? Would be interesting to know how much of the US ruling class has ties to the Russian oligarchy. After all, that' what 1991 and the "fall of Communism" was supposed to be all about wasn't it? If members of the US ruling class developed ties to Russian oligarchs in the Yeltsin era, would anyone have batted an eyelid? Wouldn't it have been considered normal business activity now that Russia had done the right thing and got rid of "communism"? It might seem less normal than the powerful ties the US ruling class has with the Israeli ruling class, but it seems to me that's mainly about tradition, especially when we consider that the US-Russia connection goes so strongly through Israel. Consider these stats: "in just four years, Gallup shows Republican approval of Russia and Putin has increased from 18% to a whopping 40%. CBS polling shows a 27-point swing toward a
[Marxism] MODERATOR'S NOTE NUMBER 4
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * DON'T PEOPLE FUCKING GET IT BY NOW? I JUST THREW JEFF MEISNER OFF MARXMAIL AND I AM NOT FINISHED. IT IS ONE THING FOR PHIL, DAVID AND GARY TO WEIGH IN (AS LONG AS THEY DON'T OVERDO IT) BUT I DON'T WANT TO HEAR FROM SHELDON RANZ AGAIN. ENOUGH. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Lou Wrote: This thread on Corbyn et al is getting repetitious. I suggest that comrades compose a final statement on it and then we move on. I hear what you are saying Lou but it was good to see the list expand beyond Trump and the ME. I had started something last night on the evil of antisemitism but did not feel that I had much to offer beyond what was canvassed in the thread. I was interested in your comments (negative) about Corbyn's advisor Seamus Milne. He seems though to have a high reputation among the Novara Media mob whom I follow. What did interest me was that in the middle of all the fracas Corbyn pulled off what was by all accounts his best parliamentary performance at PMQT. Significantly he chose to attack the Tory Government around their treatment of the mentally ill. For me that indicates the central weakness of the Right in the Tory and in the Labour Party at this juncture. They have no good news to give. Ditto for Australia BTW. Accordingly, they can only offer the politics of distraction. But the politics of distraction does not "put food on the family" as George Bush might have said. I suspect in terms of the UK that outside the MSM and the Westminster Political caste no one gives much of a damn about a mural -vile and all as it absolutely was. If I am correct the local election on May 3rd will prove a watershed when the Tories suffer a well deserved political thrashing. What then will the Right of Labour do? Apparently they call themselves the "kamikazes". Not the most hegemonic of nicknames I would have thought. Will they split from the Party? If they do so their careers will end in inglorious ignominy. The SDP split in 1981 took place and was part of the combative phase of neoliberalism. While he was at the Treasury in 1970 the Friedmanites in the Bank of England were already beginning to influence Jenkins, the SDP leader. The primary intent of the SDP split was to defeat Bennism and it succeeded in that. But we are in a different phase now. Neoliberalism is no longer normative and has instead entered a phase of irrational punitive doubling down. If the Blairites split now their fate would even be worse than that of Roy Jenkins and co. So the UK remains for me the fulcrum of my hopes for a better world. And Corbyn seems to be still in the game comradely Garyn On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 3:58 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > This thread on Corbyn et al is getting repetitious. I suggest that > comrades compose a final statement on it and then we move on. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/opt > ions/marxism/gary.maclennan1%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] MODERATOR'S NOTE #3
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I have just removed Jeff Meisner from Marxmail for ignoring my instructions. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] MODERATOR'S NOTE NUMBER 2
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I DON'T NEED ANY FUCKING FLAME WARS ON MARXMAIL. I AM GOING TO BEGIN TO UNSUB PEOPLE IF THEY DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I WROTE EARLIER. I SAID TO WRITE ONE LAST STATEMENT AND THEN WE MOVE ON. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT USED TO MAKE ME QUESTION THE USEFULNESS OF LISTSERV'S 20 YEARS AGO WAS HOW THESE THINGS BREAK OUT. A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE START GOING AFTER EACH OTHER WITHOUT REGARD TO WHETHER ANYBODY ELSE IS PARTICIPATING. ENOUGH. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This thread on Corbyn et al is getting repetitious. I suggest that comrades compose a final statement on it and then we move on. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Strange things going on. I was trying to post a link to a Vietnamese anarchist's blog but the Utah email system keeps generating weird messages rejecting it. I give up! _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Comrades need to remember that when you reply to a message, the Mailman software sometimes--for reasons I never was able to figure out--will only go to the person you are responding to and not the list. So just make sure to include marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu when you post. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 2/5/17 2:29 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote: What an insulting, offensive, patronizing entry into this latest refugee horror. Prashad has helped exacerbate the refugee crisis with his pandering to Assad's lies and crimes, and therefore, like the stalinoid "anti-imperialist" organizations, has no business shedding crocodile tears for those he helped shipwreck. This kind of abuse is totally uncalled for. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 10/17/16 8:34 AM, Paddy Hackett wrote: Hi Louis Please inform me as to how I broke the list rules. Not aware of having broken any. To save bandwidth I advise that such postings, as this one of yours, be sent privately. Take Care Paddy Hackett The Marxism list was created in 1998 not as a platform for people to call for the need for socialism (or communism). To even waste bandwidth issuing such a call indicates to me that you don't understand why it was created. It was created for experienced Marxists to discuss the finer points of Marxist theory and strategy/tactics. By analogy, a mailing list on psychotherapy geared to professionals would not need a subscriber posting messages to the effect that neurosis is a bad thing. I am making this public to the list because I am afraid that a private message to you would be a waste of time since you seem to be persistent in posting these "we need communism" type emails. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Hi Louis Hi Louis Please inform me as to how I broke the list rules. Not aware of having broken any. To save bandwidth I advise that such postings, as this one of yours, be sent privately. Take Care Paddy Hackett On 17 Oct 2016 13:03, "Louis Proyect via Marxism" < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > On 10/17/16 7:21 AM, Paddy Hackett via Marxism wrote: > >> I don't share the view that the armed opposition in Syria is serving the >> interests of the Syrian masses. >> > > Paddy, this is ridiculous. You have to remember that Marxmail has over > 1500 subscribers worldwide anxious to get correspondence from the list that > has useful and concrete analysis about the class struggle. Sending a > message to the list to the effect that Syria (or Ireland) needs a socialist > revolution is a waste of bandwidth since it is essentially preaching to the > choir. Don't do it again. > > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/opt > ions/marxism/paraichackett%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 10/17/16 7:21 AM, Paddy Hackett via Marxism wrote: I don't share the view that the armed opposition in Syria is serving the interests of the Syrian masses. Paddy, this is ridiculous. You have to remember that Marxmail has over 1500 subscribers worldwide anxious to get correspondence from the list that has useful and concrete analysis about the class struggle. Sending a message to the list to the effect that Syria (or Ireland) needs a socialist revolution is a waste of bandwidth since it is essentially preaching to the choir. Don't do it again. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A simpler explanation than Stalinism is that it's simply a variation of the stupidities the Clinton camp peddles about how anyone not supporter her is anti-female, racist and secretly working for Trump. Every election it seems to me that the civic consumers of one or the other brand of corporate rationalizers present escalating demonstrations of their voluntary willingness to make outrageous and plainly idiotic statements. One hates to see people who are otherwise radicals sucked into it, because there's no way to have a rational discourse when the contest is about proving the strength of your feelings with a willines to be irrational. ML _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note #2
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I believe the exact quote was "Its no accident that US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism worldwide. In my next blog post I will show how fascist Trump supporters are warming up to Jill." That doesn't sound like saying tolerance or cluelessness about fascism. It sounds like Clay was straight up saying Greens are pro-fascist. I remember when I (mistakenly) suggested that another member of this forum was reblogging stuff from a fascist Ukrainian group, I was nearly banned and I had to apologize to that member and so on. Clay suggested that those of us who are Green Party people -- including Louis (and Andrew, and me, and I suspect a significant chunk of this list) are "big supporters of fascism worldwide". Maybe that's not what he meant, but I don't know what kind of lefty list-serv would tolerate those sorts of accusations in general. I think it is obvious that Clay misspoke regardless of how anyone feels about Louis' moderating policies. - Amith On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Jeff via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > I really don't have any time to be writing this, but I have to strongly > object to Louis' emotionally-driven action against Clay, and indeed the > entire capricious manner in which decisions are made. Possibly this doesn't > have to do so much with Louis himself, as having essentially a dictator in > place to make such decisions on a whim, which is one reason that dictators > (like Gaddifi, come to think of it) are a bad idea, even when they start > out good. I'd be embarrassed for other people to know that I'm on an email > list in which I find such GOOD politics but gets run in a way that could > only remind one of the very systems that we are trying to bring down and > bury in the dustbin of history. > > I'm sure Louis genuinely felt that Clay's words amounted to an "amalgam" > between him and fascism, but that's only because he worked himself up into > a frenzy rather than trying to understand what Clay was saying. And then 9 > minutes after making an ultimatum, he just said "fuck it" and pushed the > nuclear button on him. I think Louis needs to attend an anger management > workshop. Or otherwise to join the black-block and direct his anger against > deserving targets. I just can't believe someone can stand for the pinnacle > of democracy that communism is, and abuse their power in such a way. > > When Clay made the poorly qualified statement that "Its no accident that > US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism worldwide." he was only > saying EXACTLY what people on this list -- very much including Louis > himself! -- have been saying: that the bulk of the left (Jill Stein's fans > in this case) is frequently comfortable supporting fascists (or far-right) > such as Assad and Putin. Not because they ARE fascists, but because they > can't perceive the difference between left and right "anti-imperialism." Of > course I and Clay are allied to those leftists regardless, but their > leftism becomes useless when it is so extremely misdirected, sometimes > literally causing more harm than good. That's the same thing most of us > (not Andrew Stewart, I'm afraid) have been crying out about, and if Louis > had taken a minute to get Clay's clarification it would have been clear he > certainly was not calling any leftist a fascist. Just clueless. > > Louis should apologize to Clay for loosing his temper and resub him. > Period. > > - Jeff > > > P.S. Clay: your message is NOT falling on deaf ears! But it's being > drowned out by those who can't listen. > > > > >> On 10/5/16 2:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: >> >>> >>> Clay, the next time you make this kind of outrageous amalgam between >>> Marxmail subscribers like me who back Jill Stein and fascism, I will >>> unsub you. Once upon a time you were a constructive member of the list. >>> No matter how hard you try, people are not buying your Democratic Party >>> sermons. You have turned into a first-class troll and just about >>> outstayed your welcome. In fact I invite you to unsub yourself because I >>> doubt that anything can dissuade you from the course you are on. In the >>> 18 years I have been moderating this list, I have learned to detect when >>> people have written it off. You are right up there with the worst. >>> >> >> >> Just after posting this, I
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note #2
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I really don't have any time to be writing this, but I have to strongly object to Louis' emotionally-driven action against Clay, and indeed the entire capricious manner in which decisions are made. Possibly this doesn't have to do so much with Louis himself, as having essentially a dictator in place to make such decisions on a whim, which is one reason that dictators (like Gaddifi, come to think of it) are a bad idea, even when they start out good. I'd be embarrassed for other people to know that I'm on an email list in which I find such GOOD politics but gets run in a way that could only remind one of the very systems that we are trying to bring down and bury in the dustbin of history. I'm sure Louis genuinely felt that Clay's words amounted to an "amalgam" between him and fascism, but that's only because he worked himself up into a frenzy rather than trying to understand what Clay was saying. And then 9 minutes after making an ultimatum, he just said "fuck it" and pushed the nuclear button on him. I think Louis needs to attend an anger management workshop. Or otherwise to join the black-block and direct his anger against deserving targets. I just can't believe someone can stand for the pinnacle of democracy that communism is, and abuse their power in such a way. When Clay made the poorly qualified statement that "Its no accident that US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism worldwide." he was only saying EXACTLY what people on this list -- very much including Louis himself! -- have been saying: that the bulk of the left (Jill Stein's fans in this case) is frequently comfortable supporting fascists (or far-right) such as Assad and Putin. Not because they ARE fascists, but because they can't perceive the difference between left and right "anti-imperialism." Of course I and Clay are allied to those leftists regardless, but their leftism becomes useless when it is so extremely misdirected, sometimes literally causing more harm than good. That's the same thing most of us (not Andrew Stewart, I'm afraid) have been crying out about, and if Louis had taken a minute to get Clay's clarification it would have been clear he certainly was not calling any leftist a fascist. Just clueless. Louis should apologize to Clay for loosing his temper and resub him. Period. - Jeff P.S. Clay: your message is NOT falling on deaf ears! But it's being drowned out by those who can't listen. On 10/5/16 2:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Clay, the next time you make this kind of outrageous amalgam between Marxmail subscribers like me who back Jill Stein and fascism, I will unsub you. Once upon a time you were a constructive member of the list. No matter how hard you try, people are not buying your Democratic Party sermons. You have turned into a first-class troll and just about outstayed your welcome. In fact I invite you to unsub yourself because I doubt that anything can dissuade you from the course you are on. In the 18 years I have been moderating this list, I have learned to detect when people have written it off. You are right up there with the worst. Just after posting this, I realized that there is no point retaining Clay Claiborne on Marxmail and unsubbed him. 3 months of his provocations were tolerated by me because he hadn't caused problems in the past. I guess when some people can't accept the fact that their message is falling on deaf ears, they only raise their voice. But they'd better figure out whether we are deaf before going on and on. My ears are pretty good even though I have serious eye problems. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note #2
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * In behalf of the lurker community, Thank You! - Bill - Louis Proyect wrote... Just after posting this, I realized that there is no point retaining Clay Claiborne on Marxmail and unsubbed him. 3 months of his provocations were tolerated by me because he hadn't caused problems in the past. I guess when some people can't accept the fact that their message is falling on deaf ears, they only raise their voice. But they'd better figure out whether we are deaf before going on and on. My ears are pretty good even though I have serious eye problems. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note #2
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 10/5/16 2:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Clay, the next time you make this kind of outrageous amalgam between Marxmail subscribers like me who back Jill Stein and fascism, I will unsub you. Once upon a time you were a constructive member of the list. No matter how hard you try, people are not buying your Democratic Party sermons. You have turned into a first-class troll and just about outstayed your welcome. In fact I invite you to unsub yourself because I doubt that anything can dissuade you from the course you are on. In the 18 years I have been moderating this list, I have learned to detect when people have written it off. You are right up there with the worst. Just after posting this, I realized that there is no point retaining Clay Claiborne on Marxmail and unsubbed him. 3 months of his provocations were tolerated by me because he hadn't caused problems in the past. I guess when some people can't accept the fact that their message is falling on deaf ears, they only raise their voice. But they'd better figure out whether we are deaf before going on and on. My ears are pretty good even though I have serious eye problems. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 10/5/16 2:42 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote: Its no accident that US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism worldwide. In my next blog post I will show how fascist Trump supporters are warming up to Jill. Clay, the next time you make this kind of outrageous amalgam between Marxmail subscribers like me who back Jill Stein and fascism, I will unsub you. Once upon a time you were a constructive member of the list. No matter how hard you try, people are not buying your Democratic Party sermons. You have turned into a first-class troll and just about outstayed your welcome. In fact I invite you to unsub yourself because I doubt that anything can dissuade you from the course you are on. In the 18 years I have been moderating this list, I have learned to detect when people have written it off. You are right up there with the worst. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 9/2/16 11:15 AM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote: I feel like the treachery of the "anti-imperialist" Left,which is no stranger to white chauvinism, has come home/ Stop name-calling, Clay. Calling people traitors is strictly prohibited here. The Marxism list that preceded this one was destroyed by that kind of invective. In fact the 60s left imploded because every major political difference was escalated into exposing traitors to the left. I saw the SWP collapse because dissidents were regarded as a "petty bourgeois" opposition while the Maoists were always splitting over who was the "revisionist". I don't mind heated debates but try to stick to the issues. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/13/16 9:17 AM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: I just forwarded Tony Greenstein's reply to Amith's accusations. Tony tried to join the list but has some technical problems. I trust the moderator will help him straighten that out so he can participate normally in the list. - Jeff I am not interested in Greenstein showing up here to duel with Amith. I put him on moderation as soon as I saw that he had subscribed. This is a Marxism mailing list, not a list about anti-Semitism in the Palestinian solidarity movement. Frankly, I am getting fed up with these flame wars that erupt every few months over the same god-damned issues over and over again. Years ago I set up a Yahoo mailing list to discuss the SWP. I might be forced to do the same thing with the by now tired old bullshit about Allison Weir et al. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The next time I see someone ignoring my instructions to clip extraneous text, they will lose their posting privileges for a month. I am sick and tired of reminding people about this especially when every message you get from the list indicates that right at the top. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note -- final
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * It is 4:42pm in NYC. At midnight EST time, the Allison Weir thread is terminated. Frankly, it is nothing except a repeat of the same arguments I heard on the first go-round and I can kick my ass for even saying a single word about it this time. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Jeff can have "the last word," I am not engaging in this nonsense any further. I'm more than happy to discuss the actua substance of Nada Elia's article. On Friday, April 29, 2016, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > On 4/29/16 12:58 PM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: > >> What's more, the day's almost over here and I have plans >> for the evening, so I guess you're saying that Amith gets the last word on >> the subject. >> > > Where are you? In Holland? Just give yourself another 24 hours starting > now and then that's that. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com > -- - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Jeff wrote: > You can't just start a discussion > and then shut it down when it's starting > to get to the point. Jeff, I agree with everything you've said about Alison Weir and If Americans Knew (and I agreed with DW's post and Louis' comment that "Allison Weir is a person whose views are shaped by the general milieu, one that is not favorable to a class analysis"), but your comment above is wrong: It's Louis' list, and he can do whatever he wants. > Now if I'm wrong, I have the right to view > replies to my mistakes so that I can correct > my mistakes. I, like all, am > here to learn The discussion can be continued off of the list, but I doubt there's much that can be added. I think Louis was wrong to call you a "tiresome troll" (your posts have been thoughtful and substantive), but the discussion has become repetitive. Can't we agree on that and drop the subject for now? (I suspect Alison Weir and If Americans Knew will come up again in a different context, and perhaps then there will be something new to say.) --Kevin _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * At 12:47 29-04-16 -0400, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: > >On 4/29/16 11:52 AM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: >> You can't just start a discussion >> and then shut it down when it's starting to get to the point > >Of course I can. Feel free to write whatever you want but tomorrow we >move on. That's not ok, for all the reasons I listed before which you clipped (but I restored below). What's more, the day's almost over here and I have plans for the evening, so I guess you're saying that Amith gets the last word on the subject. You yourself made some brief but sharp remarks on the subject (essentially denying what I thought I proved in my post) so you should either be willing to defend that, retract your erroneous position, or admit that you're unsure. If you are unsure, then you should be soliciting additional information and discussion, not preventing it. Pretending the issue doesn't exist on this list does nothing to resolve the issue among the other 99% of the left who face the same issues. - Jeff At 17:52 29-04-16 +0200, Jeff via Marxism wrote: > >At 11:29 29-04-16 -0400, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: >> >>I made a mistake by getting into the Allison Weir question. We spent far >>too much time on that originally > >Wait a minute! I spent considerable time compiling the information that, >yes, I should have posted earlier when YOU permitted a "guest post" on your >blog unjustly attacking the very organizations that brought the problem >with her and her organizations to light. You can't just start a discussion >and then shut it down when it's starting to get to the point. According to >a leading and prolific poster on this list, all that I have written about >her is wrong or misleading. Now if I'm wrong, I have the right to view >replies to my mistakes so that I can correct my mistakes. I, like all, am >here to learn (FYI I am not involved in any party that has a stake in the >questions). > >So let us now "learn" why all the facts I compiled shouldn't justify the >positions reached by Jewish Voice for Peace, the US Campaign to End the >Israeli Occupation, and Stanford Students for Justice in Palestine. >Obviously this isn't an unimportant discussion nor is it going away. If we >have a fundamental disagreement about whether the far-right should be >involved in Palestine solidarity, then we need to know that. But the post I >was directly addressing asked for evidence of any such thing, I provided >that evidence, and I expect a reply from any and all concerned quarters. >Including the moderator whose (tentative?) position on right-wing >involvement in support of Palestine is so contrary to his admirable >positions regarding the right in Russia, the Ukraine, Syria, etc. that I >can barely believe I'm talking to the same person. > >- Jeff _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 4/29/16 11:52 AM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: You can't just start a discussion and then shut it down when it's starting to get to the point Of course I can. Feel free to write whatever you want but tomorrow we move on. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * At 11:29 29-04-16 -0400, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: > >I made a mistake by getting into the Allison Weir question. We spent far >too much time on that originally Wait a minute! I spent considerable time compiling the information that, yes, I should have posted earlier when YOU permitted a "guest post" on your blog unjustly attacking the very organizations that brought the problem with her and her organizations to light. You can't just start a discussion and then shut it down when it's starting to get to the point. According to a leading and prolific poster on this list, all that I have written about her is wrong or misleading. Now if I'm wrong, I have the right to view replies to my mistakes so that I can correct my mistakes. I, like all, am here to learn (FYI I am not involved in any party that has a stake in the questions). So let us now "learn" why all the facts I compiled shouldn't justify the positions reached by Jewish Voice for Peace, the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation, and Stanford Students for Justice in Palestine. Obviously this isn't an unimportant discussion nor is it going away. If we have a fundamental disagreement about whether the far-right should be involved in Palestine solidarity, then we need to know that. But the post I was directly addressing asked for evidence of any such thing, I provided that evidence, and I expect a reply from any and all concerned quarters. Including the moderator whose (tentative?) position on right-wing involvement in support of Palestine is so contrary to his admirable positions regarding the right in Russia, the Ukraine, Syria, etc. that I can barely believe I'm talking to the same person. - Jeff _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I made a mistake by getting into the Allison Weir question. We spent far too much time on that originally and I have no interest in a repeat. So the discussion is closed after today. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * He should have been removed for his rape apologia! On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > Lueko has been removed from the list for ignoring my instructions to cease > posting about Cologne. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/dmozart1756%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Let's let this Council for the National Interest thread drop. More heat than light is being generated at this point. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Having been subjected face to face to the raving, incoherent spittle-laced yelling of JIm Robertson, on one occasion, in those long lost 1960's, and having been physically attacked on another occasion decades later by a Spartacist League member, Creegan [sp?] seems to me a pussycat in comparison. That said, perhaps a red line is whether or not anyone uses a personal insult, grounds for removal from any discussion group. If someone wishes to write that some political view of mine is stupid, or will lead inevitably to a reformist disaster, or is an accommodation to the swamp of petite bourgeois veganism, fair enough. That’s a discussion. From time to time I have expressed political views that were stupid. Who has not? Those who bluntly pointed that out did me a service, painful as it was at the time. If someone calls me stupid, or says I am a reformist disaster, or calls me a petite bourgeois veganist, that's over the line. Name calling is over the line in any discussion group. One warning would be sufficient. Of course it is the option of the creator of a discussion group to set what limits seem reasonable and proper. T -Original Message- From: Mark Lause via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jul 19, 2015 11:49 AM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The list isn't a party or a movement body. Yes, there are inconsistencies and injustices result. The fact of the matter has always been that this is Louis' operation. That has been the most functional solution to having an ongoing 24/7 flame war over who should or shouldn't be here. There simply exists no mechanism for a democratic email list, Much less a democratic-centralist email list. Or does someone have an alternative that they've not implemented or are keeping secret? In this case, a second chance would not be amiss, particularly if there's a general acknowledgement of the remote possibility that the working class can be betrayed by people trying to figure out the situation in Greece in an email discussion. Solidarity! Mark L. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The list isn't a party or a movement body. Yes, there are inconsistencies and injustices result. The fact of the matter has always been that this is Louis' operation. That has been the most functional solution to having an ongoing 24/7 flame war over who should or shouldn't be here. There simply exists no mechanism for a democratic email list, Much less a democratic-centralist email list. Or does someone have an alternative that they've not implemented or are keeping secret? In this case, a second chance would not be amiss, particularly if there's a general acknowledgement of the remote possibility that the working class can be betrayed by people trying to figure out the situation in Greece in an email discussion. Solidarity! Mark L. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/18/15 11:55 AM, James Creegan via Marxism wrote: I make this prediction because I think that the left-reformism you speak of, more than just a set of mistaken ideas, is closer to a class ideology based upon the position of middling layers (small business people, professionals of various kinds, union bureaucrats and party politicians) in capitalist society. And it is, unfortunately, these layers that are most prominent in the Western left today. Let Jim Creegan play scratch to gangrene somewhere else. I really don't listen to someone play-act Leon Trotsky versus James Burnham here. He is getting the boot. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * When push comes to shove, it's always Louis's list. Unsub me. On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: On 7/18/15 4:00 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote: You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. No, it's not. This is not a party. I don't collect dues or ask people to sell a stupid newspaper at plant gates 6am in the morning. It is a mailing list that I have the right to edit, to create boundaries around just like any other publication, print or electronic. I don't tend to remove people from the list unless I decide that their purpose here is only to do class analysis as you put it. I had 11 years of this kind of class analysis in the Trotskyist movement and that was enough for me. If anybody wants to set up a mailing list where you can blather on about the petty-bourgeoisie, contact me privately and I'll help you get started. This list has been around for 17 years and has over 1500 subscribers. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is that is not the place to do Leon Trotsky imitations. Here's a reminder from the Marxmail website subscription page for anybody tempted to repeat the Cannon-Shachtman debate: MODERATION PRINCIPLES: The Marxism mailing list is extremely permissive. There are a couple of things that are frowned upon strongly. If you come to the list with the attitude that you are a true Bolshevik, who needs to convert 'Mensheviks' to your beliefs, you will be unsubbed. Members of self-declared vanguard parties who can adjust to the tolerant atmosphere of the list are more than welcome, since they usually bring with them years of Marxist study and political experience. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jul 18, 2015, at 4:18 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: When push comes to shove, it's always Louis's list. Unsub me. It always has to be Louis’ list, because he’s incapable of functioning in a broader mileu over a sustained period of time. He would be quickly chewed up in a trade union, workers’ party or other mass organization where his belligerent egotism would not be tolerated for very long. And he claims to be building an inclusive, non-sectarian left in the USA! How preposterously self-deluding can you get? I thought the exchange between Creegan and Karadjis was thoughtful and respectful on both sides. I’ve had my differences with both of them and others on the list over the past decade, but would happily call them comrades and function collectively with them in the same party. Not so Proyect, whose first instinct is to denounce. Most recently, he’s had the colossal gall to denounce those who have not followed him across the aisle to the austerian side as ideological purists and wild-eyed proponents of a new revolutionary international. I hope I’m wrong, but this is the kind of language I associate with those embarking, without fully realizing it, on that well-trodden path of many former leftists. I can’t abide petty martinets. For all its merits and the presence of good, serious people who subscribe to it, leaving this iist is not, after all, like leaving the old mass parties of the left. Unsub me also. On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: On 7/18/15 4:00 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote: You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. No, it's not. This is not a party. I don't collect dues or ask people to sell a stupid newspaper at plant gates 6am in the morning. It is a mailing list that I have the right to edit, to create boundaries around just like any other publication, print or electronic. I don't tend to remove people from the list unless I decide that their purpose here is only to do class analysis as you put it. I had 11 years of this kind of class analysis in the Trotskyist movement and that was enough for me. If anybody wants to set up a mailing list where you can blather on about the petty-bourgeoisie, contact me privately and I'll help you get started. This list has been around for 17 years and has over 1500 subscribers. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is that is not the place to do Leon Trotsky imitations. Here's a reminder from the Marxmail website subscription page for anybody tempted to repeat the Cannon-Shachtman debate: MODERATION PRINCIPLES: The Marxism mailing list is extremely permissive. There are a couple of things that are frowned upon strongly. If you come to the list with the attitude that you are a true Bolshevik, who needs to convert 'Mensheviks' to your beliefs, you will be unsubbed. Members of self-declared vanguard parties who can adjust to the tolerant atmosphere of the list are more than welcome, since they usually bring with them years of Marxist study and political experience. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/marvgand2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/18/15 4:00 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote: You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. No, it's not. This is not a party. I don't collect dues or ask people to sell a stupid newspaper at plant gates 6am in the morning. It is a mailing list that I have the right to edit, to create boundaries around just like any other publication, print or electronic. I don't tend to remove people from the list unless I decide that their purpose here is only to do class analysis as you put it. I had 11 years of this kind of class analysis in the Trotskyist movement and that was enough for me. If anybody wants to set up a mailing list where you can blather on about the petty-bourgeoisie, contact me privately and I'll help you get started. This list has been around for 17 years and has over 1500 subscribers. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is that is not the place to do Leon Trotsky imitations. Here's a reminder from the Marxmail website subscription page for anybody tempted to repeat the Cannon-Shachtman debate: MODERATION PRINCIPLES: The Marxism mailing list is extremely permissive. There are a couple of things that are frowned upon strongly. If you come to the list with the attitude that you are a true Bolshevik, who needs to convert 'Mensheviks' to your beliefs, you will be unsubbed. Members of self-declared vanguard parties who can adjust to the tolerant atmosphere of the list are more than welcome, since they usually bring with them years of Marxist study and political experience. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I thought that Michael K replied to Jim C with well-argued points and without rancor. Jim C answered in the same way. These are complex issues, and passions run deep. So perhaps Louis should reconsider giving Jim C the boot. Jim's position would surely not be one alien to Greek radicals, and some would surely agree with him. I might argue that his definition of class position is too pat and somewhat formulaic. But on the other hand, as Michael Lebowitz argues in his new book, The Socialist Imperative: From Gotha to Now, and he has consistently argued for years, as we participate in production, we produce not only goods and services but ourselves as well. So, and especially because the class position we are in has a great deal to do with that of our parents, it seems self-evident that whatever their intentions and character, those who come from highly educated professional families with high incomes are likely to follow in their parents' footsteps. They may be sympathetic to working p eople and radical in their writing and thinking, but this doesn't always translate into knowing what it is like to be a working person without such advantages, to really feel it. They also may well have an entire set of unexamined notions and emotions that buttress modes of being that take for granted what they have materially and make it seem crazy that they should ever have to give these things up. All of this can condition politics, even behind the back, so to speak, of such persons. Anyway, I often go off the deep end berating people, at least in my head, for not seeing that their life circumstances, including parental income, education, and employment, as well as their own income, education, and employment, shape what they believe and the political actions they are willing to take. But there is I think always some truth in what I say or think about this. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * the tolerant atmosphere of the listlmao On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * When push comes to shove, it's always Louis's list. Unsub me. On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: On 7/18/15 4:00 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote: You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. No, it's not. This is not a party. I don't collect dues or ask people to sell a stupid newspaper at plant gates 6am in the morning. It is a mailing list that I have the right to edit, to create boundaries around just like any other publication, print or electronic. I don't tend to remove people from the list unless I decide that their purpose here is only to do class analysis as you put it. I had 11 years of this kind of class analysis in the Trotskyist movement and that was enough for me. If anybody wants to set up a mailing list where you can blather on about the petty-bourgeoisie, contact me privately and I'll help you get started. This list has been around for 17 years and has over 1500 subscribers. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is that is not the place to do Leon Trotsky imitations. Here's a reminder from the Marxmail website subscription page for anybody tempted to repeat the Cannon-Shachtman debate: MODERATION PRINCIPLES: The Marxism mailing list is extremely permissive. There are a couple of things that are frowned upon strongly. If you come to the list with the attitude that you are a true Bolshevik, who needs to convert 'Mensheviks' to your beliefs, you will be unsubbed. Members of self-declared vanguard parties who can adjust to the tolerant atmosphere of the list are more than welcome, since they usually bring with them years of Marxist study and political experience. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amaral1871%40gmail.com -- Seek for food and clothing first, then the Kingdom of God shall be added unto you. Hegel, 1807 The class struggle, which is always present to a historian influenced by Marx, is a fight for the crude and material things without which no refined and spiritual things could exist. Nevertheless, it is not in the form of the spoils which fall to the victor that the latter make their presence felt in the class struggle. They manifest themselves in this struggle as courage, humor, cunning, and fortitude. They have retroactive force and will constantly call in question every victory, past and present, of the rulers. As flowers turn toward the sun, by dint of a secret heliotropism the past strives to turn toward that sun which is rising in the sky of history. A historical materialist must be aware of this most inconspicuous of all transformations. -Walter Benjamin, Spring, 1940 NYCSOCIALIST.ORG _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/18/15 4:27 PM, aaron s. amaral via Marxism wrote: the tolerant atmosphere of the listlmao From an ISO member, no less. Aaron, you will find a lot more POV's represented here than in the pages of your newspaper or at one of your conferences Furthermore, there were more ISO'ers who got the boot in the last two years from your group than were unsubbed from this mailing list over the past ten. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/18/15 11:55 AM, James Creegan via Marxism wrote: I make this prediction because I think that the left-reformism you speak of, more than just a set of mistaken ideas, is closer to a class ideology based upon the position of middling layers (small business people, professionals of various kinds, union bureaucrats and party politicians) in capitalist society. And it is, unfortunately, these layers that are most prominent in the Western left today. Let Jim Creegan play scratch to gangrene somewhere else. I really don't listen to someone play-act Leon Trotsky versus James Burnham here. He is getting the boot. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The Nemtsov thread has run its course. Let's move on to other matters since Marxmail is not the proper forum for solving crimes, or speculating on the guilt or innocence of Vladimir Putin in Nemtsov's murder. Our emphasis is on class questions such as the role of Russia in world politics, something that can be determined by examining the evidence of its role in Ukraine, the treatment of Pussy Riot and gays, etc. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 01/03/2015 10:27 μμ, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: The Nemtsov thread has run its course. Let's move on to other matters since Marxmail is not the proper forum for solving crimes, or speculating on the guilt or innocence of Vladimir Putin in Nemtsov's murder. Our emphasis is on class questions such as the role of Russia in world politics, something that can be determined by examining the evidence of its role in Ukraine, the treatment of Pussy Riot and gays, etc. Amen JA _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * So I obviously don't agree with Dan's opinion about CH, but I think that particular question is a legitimate one. How should Marxists, Muslim or not, view Mohamed as a historical figure? On Tuesday, January 13, 2015, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/13/15 9:14 PM, Dan via Marxism wrote: ising 100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter. And what was Mohammed if not a fairly standard oriental primitive ? He was oriental. He was primitive. And he was fairly standard in his lust for power and domination, using religion and military might to murder, plunder, rape and conquer. A fairly standard dictator who would order mass executions and torture prisoners, but also forgive certain tribes who swore allegiance to him. This kind of crude and ignorant Islamophobic trash does not belong on the Marxism list. I am instructing Dan and anybody else tempted to send out a message like this in the future that it will lead to removal from the list. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com -- - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Dan is clearly a hopeless racist. But as for Amith's important question, best I know of is Maxime Rodinson's biography. On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 10:12 PM, A.R. G via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * So I obviously don't agree with Dan's opinion about CH, but I think that particular question is a legitimate one. How should Marxists, Muslim or not, view Mohamed as a historical figure? On Tuesday, January 13, 2015, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/13/15 9:14 PM, Dan via Marxism wrote: ising 100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter. And what was Mohammed if not a fairly standard oriental primitive ? He was oriental. He was primitive. And he was fairly standard in his lust for power and domination, using religion and military might to murder, plunder, rape and conquer. A fairly standard dictator who would order mass executions and torture prisoners, but also forgive certain tribes who swore allegiance to him. This kind of crude and ignorant Islamophobic trash does not belong on the Marxism list. I am instructing Dan and anybody else tempted to send out a message like this in the future that it will lead to removal from the list. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com -- - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/13/15 9:14 PM, Dan via Marxism wrote: ising 100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter. And what was Mohammed if not a fairly standard oriental primitive ? He was oriental. He was primitive. And he was fairly standard in his lust for power and domination, using religion and military might to murder, plunder, rape and conquer. A fairly standard dictator who would order mass executions and torture prisoners, but also forgive certain tribes who swore allegiance to him. This kind of crude and ignorant Islamophobic trash does not belong on the Marxism list. I am instructing Dan and anybody else tempted to send out a message like this in the future that it will lead to removal from the list. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/7/15 3:46 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: Ah, but opium, used right, is a very valuable drug! I have removed Shane Mage from the Marxism list. When I tell you that six times is enough. And then repeat the word enough in upper-case, that means you should take me seriously. Shane has been hanging out here for a decade or so on and off and I have never seen anything out of him except 2 or 3 sentence provocations. And this was a guy who wrote a seminal PhD dissertation on Marx's value theory. They say that LSD fried his brain. Who knows. Whatever the explanation, I am sick and tired of his fooling around here. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * After thinking about it for a minute more, I decided to remove Charles Andrews. He has no interest in having serious discussions here. It's the first time someone has been booted from Marxmail in well over a year. I think most people have figured out that it is a valuable resource. If you are here to expose me as a class traitor, you will get unsubbed. In fact, if you are here to expose anybody, you will be unsubbed. That kind of crap helped to destroy the mailing list that preceded Marxmail 16 years ago and I am determined to keep this one on an even keel. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 11/30/14 12:52 PM, Charlie via Marxism wrote: LP wrote: Our job as Marxists is simply to form the left wing of new formations like Syriza or Podemos to keep them honest. We must translate LP's posts into Greek and Spanish. The communists of Greece and Spain await his guidance. Because LP knows: A wise armchair revolutionary comments on foreign countries more than on his own. --attributed to E. Debs Charlie, you are smart enough to have written a book on Marxist economics that was pretty well-regarded. But you also seem to be stupid enough to waste bandwidth here with sterile sniping at me. The next time you do this, I will have to remove you. There are 1500 subscribers to Marxmail who are entitled to read serious, thoughtful and substantive posts. Do not waste our time again. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There were a lot more recruits to socialist views during Debs's time, so it was wise to concentrate leftwing advice and organizing at home. While there is still much work to be done here in the US, giving a moribund leftwing movement life and work at home today means using examples from abroad, while simultaneously attempting to help foreign leftwing movements to grow and to stay on a socialist path. Wythe From: Marxism marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu on behalf of Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 12:10 PM To: Wythe Holt jr. Subject: [Marxism] Moderator's note POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 11/30/14 12:52 PM, Charlie via Marxism wrote: LP wrote: Our job as Marxists is simply to form the left wing of new formations like Syriza or Podemos to keep them honest. We must translate LP's posts into Greek and Spanish. The communists of Greece and Spain await his guidance. Because LP knows: A wise armchair revolutionary comments on foreign countries more than on his own. --attributed to E. Debs Charlie, you are smart enough to have written a book on Marxist economics that was pretty well-regarded. But you also seem to be stupid enough to waste bandwidth here with sterile sniping at me. The next time you do this, I will have to remove you. There are 1500 subscribers to Marxmail who are entitled to read serious, thoughtful and substantive posts. Do not waste our time again. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/wholt%40law.ua.edu _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The reason we don't have more to discuss in the U.S. in terms of ongoing movements isn't due to some act of God. American radicals have had a myriad of opportunities to accomplish things in the U.S. It is astonishing that they actually haven't even been able to come close to figuring out what needs to be done to hold together something like Occupy--or to build a movement out of the mass discontent over the militarization of the police and the quite war waged on black youth. ML _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note: removing your post from public homepage
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * this email is addressed to the ex-subscriber living in Europe who continues to email Lou and myself (ten times) asking that we erase my name out of the public homepage: we have answered you many many times and never received a response. on the off chance that you are reading the list on the web, i send this as last resort. check your spam filters to see if you are blocking responses from Lou and myself. but, the bottom line is: we are actually UNABLE to handle your request. what you ask for cannot be done, we do not have any control over a number of the servers where your name appears in a posting. sorry. Les _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yesterday someone asked that a post be removed from the Marxmail archives because it could cause problems for someone who was mentioned in the post. Unfortunately, Hans Ehrbar no longer has access to the server that Marxmail resides on at the U. of Utah. This means you should exercise some caution before posting to the list, especially those of you who are using your real name and expect to be on the job market some day and don't want a potential employer finding out that you are for preemptive nuclear war or some other wild idea. I should add, however, that with the Snowden revelations, there is no point in using an alias except for that reason. Big Brother is watching you and you'd better get used to it. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com