Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:16:17 -0500 Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Should read: I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. The real question should be where did the good jobs go, why, and and how do we get some of them back? The most interesting part of this question is why. I recently talked with a friend with whom I worked for Hewlett-Packard in Colorado Springs in the early 80s. He said the complex of buildings that held 3200 people (2700 when I worked for HP) now holds about 200. He said they transferred the manufacturing operation to Malasia so they did not need manufacturing engineers in Colorado. He said HP brought the Malasians over to Colorado, he and his compatriots trained them, and then they got laid off. Reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon about Asok asking for a promotion, as well as my situation working for AeroAstro (when my parts of the ALEXIS satellite and its ground station were complete, I got laid off). Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
the US government outsourced all the jobs to low bidders. The corporations then ship the jobs out, and our workers are unemployed. We need to demand that all items purchased by and with our tax dollars be 100% made in USA with parts made here. This way, the apparel industry will at least be clothing our soldiers and others who depend on taxes for a living. Same rising tide will keep electronics and all the rest safely in American hands, if only to supply government contracts. No jobs headed south of the border of off to the orient, they stay here, the cash flows to the locals and state coffers, instead of making some rice eater rich enough to drive a benz and send his kids to take the slots our children should have at university clay On Dec 24, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. The real question should be where did the good jobs, why, and go and how do we get some of them back? The most interesting part of this question is why. And Merry Christmas to all. Scott -Original Message- From: Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:24 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy Don't forget that US wages adjusted for inflation have been falling since the 70s. Locally skilled worker wages have been unchanged since the 80's -- people are making exactly what they were 30 years ago, which of course means they HAVE to have everyone in the family working to have a place to live, let alone save something for retirement. ... You can live pretty well on a single industrial income in America if you are lucky and get one of the few good jobs left, but the majority of people simply cannot. ... Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
This is the main reason why I have sacrificed better compensation for job security. After getting RIF'ed from nice, well-paying jobs where companies changed their minds about their management structures on a whim, I found myself in a low paying but very secure position. Two months ago I had a headhunter call me and wanted to present me for a position that would have paid me 50% more than I was making at the time, and with much better benefits. While there was no guarantee that I would have gotten the job, it was a no-brainer. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take my lower pay and not worry about being put out on the street. Being laid off is the most demeaning, deprecating thing I have ever experienced in my life. I never want to experience it again. Dan On Dec 26, 2013, at 4:53 PM, Craig wrote: I recently talked with a friend with whom I worked for Hewlett-Packard in Colorado Springs in the early 80s. He said the complex of buildings that held 3200 people (2700 when I worked for HP) now holds about 200. He said they transferred the manufacturing operation to Malasia so they did not need manufacturing engineers in Colorado. He said HP brought the Malasians over to Colorado, he and his compatriots trained them, and then they got laid off. Reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon about Asok asking for a promotion, as well as my situation working for AeroAstro (when my parts of the ALEXIS satellite and its ground station were complete, I got laid off). Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Dan wrote: Being laid off is the most demeaning, deprecating thing I have ever experienced in my life. I have never experienced being laid off until 30 months ago in an industry that has not gotten out and at an age that shows. Yeah, demeaning, depreciating, depressing, all and many more. If I can make it to 62 maybe social security will put a few coins in my pocket. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Not that I love the government anymore than anyone else, but how do you attribute this to it? I thought it was the investors focus on quarterly profits, not the long term. The $ is king. On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 6:56 PM, clay redgh...@comcast.net wrote: the US government outsourced all the jobs to low bidders. The corporations then ship the jobs out, and our workers are unemployed. -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Interesting fact: in both china and India the top 10% of high school students outnumber ALL high school students in the US. Make of that what you might. My take is that if those countries tweak their political, social, legal, and economic structures a bit to encourage entrepreneurial opportunity, the US will be s screwed. --R (sent from my miniPad) On Dec 25, 2013, at 8:08 AM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Dec 24, 2013, at 6:16 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Should read: I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. The real question should be where did the good jobs go? Overseas. China foremost. India, Vietnam, Korea, Mexico... why? Unfavorable work rules in the US as opposed to other nations, China being given Most Favored Nation trade status years ago, elimination of tariffs, NAFTA, stringent EPA regulations here while other countries have virtually no environmental standards, taxes, etc. ad infinum. and and how do we get some of them back? We don't. Sorry. The most interesting part of thisquestion is why. I have no clue. Really. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
--R wrote: ...the US will be s screwed. Will? I would guess the momentum *against* the USA is much greater than can be overcome. Why? - still an interesting conversation. We are not only obese in body-mass-index, we are obese in expectation and consumption. Can we lose some expectations and stuff? - probably not enough to make a difference. i.e. you and your domicile reconstruction... necessary? I bet you could live fine without, even though it really looks nice - you do wonderful ATTABOY work. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
You will know the tide has turned when you see US doctors starting to move to Asia to practice medicine. But then again, there may be no Americans willing to go through medical school by then (or learn an Asian language). -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:46 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy Interesting fact: in both china and India the top 10% of high school students outnumber ALL high school students in the US. Make of that what you might. My take is that if those countries tweak their political, social, legal, and economic structures a bit to encourage entrepreneurial opportunity, the US will be s screwed. --R (sent from my miniPad) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
There are plenty already, I am sure. On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: You will know the tide has turned when you see US doctors starting to move to Asia to practice medicine. But then again, there may be no Americans willing to go through medical school by then (or learn an Asian language). -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:46 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy Interesting fact: in both china and India the top 10% of high school students outnumber ALL high school students in the US. Make of that what you might. My take is that if those countries tweak their political, social, legal, and economic structures a bit to encourage entrepreneurial opportunity, the US will be s screwed. --R (sent from my miniPad) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Richard Hattaway rhatta...@rocketmail.comwrote: Those days are gone except in small Asian rim countries wait a minute, who is it that's kicking our ass in education these days.. Us, who were once at the top are now in the teens.. North Carolina education is the 48th worst in the country last time I checked.. and we do have tenure here. Hmm... all this seems to add up. We, also, are losing tenure after the Republican invasion. This was a big deal in certain circles, but it got overwhelmed by some of the other stuff they did. Kind of what you'd expect when you hire a bunch of reformers after having the same bunch of Democrats in power since Reconstruction, but I guess it took some people by surprise. And that's my political post for the day. :) Merry Christmas Eve to all! Best, -Tim might actually get in some wrench time today! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: From what I hear the better part of the faculty has decided to give up tenure. Dan I htink that has an untended double meaning. I doubt it was unintended... Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Don't forget that US wages adjusted for inflation have been falling since the 70s. Locally skilled worker wages have been unchanged since the 80's -- people are making exactly what they were 30 years ago, which of course means they HAVE to have everyone in the family working to have a place to live, let alone save something for retirement. Add to that the fact that most people want to live in a palace and drive an expensive car (new every two years so the neighbors are jealous) and one income won't do that. You can live pretty well on a single industrial income in America if you are lucky and get one of the few good jobs left, but the majority of people simply cannot. Most people cannot survive, let alone retire, on the prevailing wage as single people, sobering prospect. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:24 AM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: You can live pretty well on a single industrial income in America if you are lucky and get one of the few good jobs left, but the majority of people simply cannot. Most people cannot survive, let alone retire, on the prevailing wage as single people, sobering prospect. +1 I've been a single dad (no child support) for almost 11 years now... I do pretty well, but I am a cheap bast..., uh, frugal. I don't need the newest cars, tv, etc. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
i can one up you on this. i am a single dad receiving no child support but ordered to pay my ex wife 4 figures a month in child support for a child who lives with me and my ex wife has five times my income. and no one in the entire state of georgia thinks this even sounds unusual your move On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.comwrote: On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:24 AM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: You can live pretty well on a single industrial income in America if you are lucky and get one of the few good jobs left, but the majority of people simply cannot. Most people cannot survive, let alone retire, on the prevailing wage as single people, sobering prospect. +1 I've been a single dad (no child support) for almost 11 years now... I do pretty well, but I am a cheap bast..., uh, frugal. I don't need the newest cars, tv, etc. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Gary wrote: your move I'm done. I didn't save money - what me worry? I did 7 times as many kids as you. But mom taught at home and cooked at home and we rent home. Early social might provide some $$ but I don't really know, nor do I know if the Potters in DC want to leave that system alone. I may fall outside of ALL safety nets - which is fine. Life has been fine. Never a new car. Never a mortgage. Always a satisfying wife. It's been good. What, me worry? mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Don't forget that those services used by that two earner family are providing more employment for others. They'd be without a job if mom stayed home and did all that herself. On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Don't forget that all this additional economic activity, like day care so a wife (or husband, for that matter) can work generates more income for the Government to tax. When mom cooks: no taxes. But when the family goes out to Cracker Barrel, government at several levels gets a piece of the action (e.g. taxes, inspectors, regulators, etc). -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. The real question should be where did the good jobs, why, and go and how do we get some of them back? The most interesting part of this question is why. And Merry Christmas to all. Scott -Original Message- From: Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:24 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy Don't forget that US wages adjusted for inflation have been falling since the 70s. Locally skilled worker wages have been unchanged since the 80's -- people are making exactly what they were 30 years ago, which of course means they HAVE to have everyone in the family working to have a place to live, let alone save something for retirement. ... You can live pretty well on a single industrial income in America if you are lucky and get one of the few good jobs left, but the majority of people simply cannot. ... Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Should read: I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. The real question should be where did the good jobs go, why, and and how do we get some of them back? The most interesting part of this question is why. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott Ritchey Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:58 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. The real question should be where did the good jobs, why, and go and how do we get some of them back? The most interesting part of this question is why. And Merry Christmas to all. Scott -Original Message- From: Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:24 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy Don't forget that US wages adjusted for inflation have been falling since the 70s. Locally skilled worker wages have been unchanged since the 80's -- people are making exactly what they were 30 years ago, which of course means they HAVE to have everyone in the family working to have a place to live, let alone save something for retirement. ... You can live pretty well on a single industrial income in America if you are lucky and get one of the few good jobs left, but the majority of people simply cannot. ... Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
On Dec 24, 2013, at 6:16 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Should read: I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. The real question should be where did the good jobs go? Overseas. China foremost. India, Vietnam, Korea, Mexico... why? Unfavorable work rules in the US as opposed to other nations, China being given Most Favored Nation trade status years ago, elimination of tariffs, NAFTA, stringent EPA regulations here while other countries have virtually no environmental standards, taxes, etc. ad infinum. and and how do we get some of them back? We don't. Sorry. The most interesting part of thisquestion is why. I have no clue. Really. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
I blame it on women's lib. Back in my day (50s and early 60s) I benefitted from many superb women teachers in public schools. I suspect most of them were there (vs running fortune 500 corporations) because education was the best avenue open to them as dedicated, educated women. But that's only half of the story. Parents then (mine, at least) insisted their children work in school and behave. I had nothing to fear from my teachers compared to the discipline I'd get at home if I misbehaved. Lately, I've heard stories of parents attacking the school/teacher if the school tried to discipline a child or give a (deserved) low grade. Kids today (especially certain minorities) may think it's not cool to do well in school. That was actually true in my day too, maybe not to the same degree. But parents then made a difference and most mothers then were home makers. Now, it seems mothers need to work but mainly so they can afford to buy crap that isn't really needed. Folks have been brainwashed to believe they and their kids NEED all kinds of stuff that didn't even exist 50 years ago. In effect, they have sold themselves to become indentured servants to the economy. Scott On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: ... Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turned touchy feely instead of discreet quantitative. Everything. It can all be summarized as religion. We live under totalitarian religious-industrial-complex. Don't say God. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Evaluation sounds like the right answer but I wonder about the administration's ability (and criteria) to evaluate teachers. When I got to Stanford (USAF-sponsored PhD program in 1984) one thing I discovered (which surprised me) was that the professors didn't really know which other professors were good teachers. But the students figured it out pretty quick and they had great word-of-mouth intelligence data on this subject. In most cases (within limits) I shopped for the best teacher vs the best-sounding course description. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan Penoff Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 10:04 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy There is nothing cliche about the theories behind teaching methodologies. I would agree with what you say, but the problem starts at the top - the administration. ... Effective this coming January our teachers go on an evaluation system that determines whether or not they get raises. Dan Sent from my iPad On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: my kid's english teacher can barely read. abby has to explain what words mean to her as she has a very limited vocabulary. this teacher is bad tempered and loses student's tests, then gives them a zero as a grade when she can't find a test. the school administration bends over backwards to protect her against any criticism. i think the problems are A LOT bigger that whether she is a contructivist or a behaviorist. in fact, i think talk of which a teacher is really distracts from much of what the problem really is. cliches just cover for a lack of core competence in many public school teachers On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I would also add that Contructivism is the flavor of the month for now. This is the experiential style of learning promoted by Montessori, Piaget and Dewey. Just like the stock market, the pendulum will swing in the other direction in the future and Behaviorism (B.F. Skinner, Itard, etc.) will come back into vogue, no doubt. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: It's by no means touchy-feely any more. It's all data driven. I see kindergarten teachers with 3 binders full of data they have collected on individual students. It's all about the data now. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: But the prior post about the 'merkuns didn't want to know.. or something to that effect is not true. FDR installed Deming to make the 'merkun war production hum. Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turned touchy feely instead of discreet quantitative. Everything. It can all be summarized as religion. We live under totalitarian religious-industrial-complex. Don't say God. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Scott wrote: I blame it on women's lib. ... ...most mothers then were home makers. Now, it seems mothers need to work but mainly so they can afford to buy crap that isn't really needed. Folks have been brainwashed to believe they and their kids NEED all kinds of stuff that didn't even exist 50 years ago. In effect, they have sold themselves to become indentured servants to the economy. The increase in women in the workforce rather than in the motherhood force was due to the change 40 years ago of allowing 2 incomes to qualify for home mortgage. True? I don't know, but that is what I remember learning. +1 - to all your comments - thanks. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Dan wrote: I would also add that Contructivism is the flavor of the month for now. This is the experiential style of learning promoted by Montessori, Piaget and Dewey. Yes. That is what I mean by touchy feely. Data be damned. Data does not drive the education process, rather it is used to bear down on the touchy feely. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Two folks in the home going to work = higher discretionary income Higher discretionary income = eventual higher prices ( cars, homes ) as a function of capitalism Higher prices = requirement for two incomes Two income requirement = kids raised in mass storage facilities Kids raised in mass storage facilities = problem kids It's a spiral, and I don't see it ending any time soon. In my elementary school ( 360 kids or so ) we had one principal, one nurse, one secretary, one custodian, three cafeteria workers and a teacher for every 20 kids or so. Kids took turns in the cafeteria picking trash off trays and the floor, and running stuff thru the dishwasher ( it would have scalded me I'm sure ) .. There was a superintendent and a secretarial staff downtown. Those days are gone except in small Asian rim countries wait a minute, who is it that's kicking our ass in education these days.. Us, who were once at the top are now in the teens.. North Carolina education is the 48th worst in the country last time I checked.. and we do have tenure here. Hmm... all this seems to add up. On Monday, December 23, 2013 7:21 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Scott wrote: I blame it on women's lib. ... ...most mothers then were home makers. Now, it seems mothers need to work but mainly so they can afford to buy crap that isn't really needed. Folks have been brainwashed to believe they and their kids NEED all kinds of stuff that didn't even exist 50 years ago. In effect, they have sold themselves to become indentured servants to the economy. The increase in women in the workforce rather than in the motherhood force was due to the change 40 years ago of allowing 2 incomes to qualify for home mortgage. True? I don't know, but that is what I remember learning. +1 - to all your comments - thanks. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
absolutely, scott. once women were admitted into higher university positions, law, highest levels of medicine, etc, it was all over for public school teaching. i had a teacher in HS who was the top student in her masters class in history at columbia university but could not get accepted into a PhD program, so she gave it up and became an HS history teacher On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: I blame it on women's lib. Back in my day (50s and early 60s) I benefitted from many superb women teachers in public schools. I suspect most of them were there (vs running fortune 500 corporations) because education was the best avenue open to them as dedicated, educated women. But that's only half of the story. Parents then (mine, at least) insisted their children work in school and behave. I had nothing to fear from my teachers compared to the discipline I'd get at home if I misbehaved. Lately, I've heard stories of parents attacking the school/teacher if the school tried to discipline a child or give a (deserved) low grade. Kids today (especially certain minorities) may think it's not cool to do well in school. That was actually true in my day too, maybe not to the same degree. But parents then made a difference and most mothers then were home makers. Now, it seems mothers need to work but mainly so they can afford to buy crap that isn't really needed. Folks have been brainwashed to believe they and their kids NEED all kinds of stuff that didn't even exist 50 years ago. In effect, they have sold themselves to become indentured servants to the economy. Scott On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: ... Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turned touchy feely instead of discreet quantitative. Everything. It can all be summarized as religion. We live under totalitarian religious-industrial-complex. Don't say God. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
SWMBA was not impressed with her middle school teacher, so she organized the children and parents. There was pressure put on the school to remedy the situation, and the teacher was removed. No idea where that teacher went, but it was not to either highschool or other location in town. Then again, that was over 35 years ago, when consumers still had a voice in local schools clay On Dec 22, 2013, at 6:48 PM, Richard Hattaway wrote: cliches just cover for a lack of core competence in many public school teachers Cliches and tenure, actually... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Don't forget that all this additional economic activity, like day care so a wife (or husband, for that matter) can work generates more income for the Government to tax. When mom cooks: no taxes. But when the family goes out to Cracker Barrel, government at several levels gets a piece of the action (e.g. taxes, inspectors, regulators, etc). -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hattaway Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 8:51 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy Two folks in the home going to work = higher discretionary income Higher discretionary income = eventual higher prices ( cars, homes ) as a function of capitalism Higher prices = requirement for two incomes Two income requirement = kids raised in mass storage facilities Kids raised in mass storage facilities = problem kids ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Deming was all about process control -- the theory that if you calibrate manufacturing equipment and get a really good handle on what changes in the equipment produce what results, you can adjust on the fly to keep making high quality, proper sized, etc parts rather than making a billion parts and sorting out the good ones (on in the case of GM, pretending you found the good ones and using the bad ones anyway). The system, in various guises, is called statistical process control, and in many places is a wonderful thing. However, one variant at least, Six Sigma, has been applied in many, many wrong ways -- I've heard form some engineers that all statistical process control does is find bad parts. If the process does not have a calibrated knob the operator can turn to change the final part a known amount, statistical process control does nothing for you except generate non-sense data. I've seen people attempt to use Six Sigma for personnel issues, for instance, which is simply insane and demonstrates conclusively that the whole idea simply went over the heads of the people involved. American business schools don't teach much beyond how to steal money and cut costs on a VERY short-term basis, using a vast array of 'business case histories that are fake. Hence the idea that you shouldn't know anything about what you are managing because you are managing people and people are all the same. All compressed flatulence being mascaraded as knowledge, but someone is making a pile of money, so it must be true, eh? Peter 6 sigma is part of the CQE body of knowledge dressed up and repackaged to make some schmuck rich. I forgot his name. Deming was spot on, but did not invent SPC. He did teach it to the Japanese, and changed made in Japan from meaning cheap junk to As good as German but cheaper to better than German as the Japanese further developed the system. Walter Shewhart developed SPC at Bell Labs, and that is where and from whom Deming learned it. One of the best quotes of Deming is some things are unknown and unknowable. For managing people, Deming's System of Profound Knowledge is where to look. However, it is not easy to understand or to apply. You have to be a serious student of Deming to even begin to understand what he is getting at. Demings 14 points are easier to understand and implement. But the prior post about the 'merkuns didn't want to know.. or something to that effect is not true. FDR installed Deming to make the 'merkun war production hum. Deming made it do, to borrow a phrase from Captain Pickard. When the war ended, Truman canned Deming, 'mercun industry tossed out all the women trained in SPC, and forgot all they knew.Deming was asked to speak in Japan, and the Japanese too the message to heart, and then transformed the whole country. The short explanation of the difference between mercun system of manufacturing tolerance and the Shewhart/Deming/SPC system is this. In Manufacturing tolerance, a part is acceptable if a dimension is above Y (lower limit) and below Z (upper limit) where SPC focuses on building a system where the peak of (a bell curve) distribution is at the exact measurement desired, and the tails of the curve are within tolerance, then work on the system so the tails get closer and closer to the peak (or ideal measurement). This is highly simplified for illustration, and assumes a one (critical) dimensional part. In fact parts or products have many dimensions, and in most cases, many parts. The great difference in performance of the same exact transmission made by ford (tolerance) or made by mazda (SPC) is a great illustration. Ford transmissions crapped out early (most from in warranty to maybe 80k miles) while the mazda mostly went over 150k miles. SPC can be applied to any system that can be measured and controlled. There is even a form of SPC for one off products, such as custom built houses. SPC is only only one of the tools of quality. the Quality Engineering profession has many tools. For more info go to asq.org, visit your local section of ASQ and look at http://asq.org/quality-press/ (former CQE) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Dieselhead wrote: But the prior post about the 'merkuns didn't want to know.. or something to that effect is not true. FDR installed Deming to make the 'merkun war production hum. Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turned touchy feely instead of discreet quantitative. Everything. It can all be summarized as religion. We live under totalitarian religious-industrial-complex. Don't say God. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
It's by no means touchy-feely any more. It's all data driven. I see kindergarten teachers with 3 binders full of data they have collected on individual students. It's all about the data now. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: But the prior post about the 'merkuns didn't want to know.. or something to that effect is not true. FDR installed Deming to make the 'merkun war production hum. Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turned touchy feely instead of discreet quantitative. Everything. It can all be summarized as religion. We live under totalitarian religious-industrial-complex. Don't say God. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
I would also add that Contructivism is the flavor of the month for now. This is the experiential style of learning promoted by Montessori, Piaget and Dewey. Just like the stock market, the pendulum will swing in the other direction in the future and Behaviorism (B.F. Skinner, Itard, etc.) will come back into vogue, no doubt. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: It's by no means touchy-feely any more. It's all data driven. I see kindergarten teachers with 3 binders full of data they have collected on individual students. It's all about the data now. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: But the prior post about the 'merkuns didn't want to know.. or something to that effect is not true. FDR installed Deming to make the 'merkun war production hum. Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turned touchy feely instead of discreet quantitative. Everything. It can all be summarized as religion. We live under totalitarian religious-industrial-complex. Don't say God. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
my kid's english teacher can barely read. abby has to explain what words mean to her as she has a very limited vocabulary. this teacher is bad tempered and loses student's tests, then gives them a zero as a grade when she can't find a test. the school administration bends over backwards to protect her against any criticism. i think the problems are A LOT bigger that whether she is a contructivist or a behaviorist. in fact, i think talk of which a teacher is really distracts from much of what the problem really is. cliches just cover for a lack of core competence in many public school teachers On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I would also add that Contructivism is the flavor of the month for now. This is the experiential style of learning promoted by Montessori, Piaget and Dewey. Just like the stock market, the pendulum will swing in the other direction in the future and Behaviorism (B.F. Skinner, Itard, etc.) will come back into vogue, no doubt. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: It's by no means touchy-feely any more. It's all data driven. I see kindergarten teachers with 3 binders full of data they have collected on individual students. It's all about the data now. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: But the prior post about the 'merkuns didn't want to know.. or something to that effect is not true. FDR installed Deming to make the 'merkun war production hum. Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turned touchy feely instead of discreet quantitative. Everything. It can all be summarized as religion. We live under totalitarian religious-industrial-complex. Don't say God. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
cliches just cover for a lack of core competence in many public school teachers Cliches and tenure, actually... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
There is nothing cliche about the theories behind teaching methodologies. I would agree with what you say, but the problem starts at the top - the administration. As for Richard's comment about tenure, it no longer exists in our district. Effective this coming January our teachers go on an evaluation system that determines whether or not they get raises. Existing teachers who have tenure can keep if it they choose to, but if they do their salaries are effectively capped. From what I hear the better part of the faculty has decided to give up tenure. Dan Sent from my iPad On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: my kid's english teacher can barely read. abby has to explain what words mean to her as she has a very limited vocabulary. this teacher is bad tempered and loses student's tests, then gives them a zero as a grade when she can't find a test. the school administration bends over backwards to protect her against any criticism. i think the problems are A LOT bigger that whether she is a contructivist or a behaviorist. in fact, i think talk of which a teacher is really distracts from much of what the problem really is. cliches just cover for a lack of core competence in many public school teachers On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I would also add that Contructivism is the flavor of the month for now. This is the experiential style of learning promoted by Montessori, Piaget and Dewey. Just like the stock market, the pendulum will swing in the other direction in the future and Behaviorism (B.F. Skinner, Itard, etc.) will come back into vogue, no doubt. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: It's by no means touchy-feely any more. It's all data driven. I see kindergarten teachers with 3 binders full of data they have collected on individual students. It's all about the data now. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: But the prior post about the 'merkuns didn't want to know.. or something to that effect is not true. FDR installed Deming to make the 'merkun war production hum. Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turned touchy feely instead of discreet quantitative. Everything. It can all be summarized as religion. We live under totalitarian religious-industrial-complex. Don't say God. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
what is the methodology of losing student's tests and then giving them zeros for those tests and then being supported by the administration? the words are just bullshit that are spouted to confuse people and maintain this status quo i've never seen any methodology at the public school, just rhetoric meant to cover for incompetence and indifference. just another big government welfare program that needs to go away, like the warfare state On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: There is nothing cliche about the theories behind teaching methodologies. I would agree with what you say, but the problem starts at the top - the administration. As for Richard's comment about tenure, it no longer exists in our district. Effective this coming January our teachers go on an evaluation system that determines whether or not they get raises. Existing teachers who have tenure can keep if it they choose to, but if they do their salaries are effectively capped. From what I hear the better part of the faculty has decided to give up tenure. Dan Sent from my iPad On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: my kid's english teacher can barely read. abby has to explain what words mean to her as she has a very limited vocabulary. this teacher is bad tempered and loses student's tests, then gives them a zero as a grade when she can't find a test. the school administration bends over backwards to protect her against any criticism. i think the problems are A LOT bigger that whether she is a contructivist or a behaviorist. in fact, i think talk of which a teacher is really distracts from much of what the problem really is. cliches just cover for a lack of core competence in many public school teachers On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I would also add that Contructivism is the flavor of the month for now. This is the experiential style of learning promoted by Montessori, Piaget and Dewey. Just like the stock market, the pendulum will swing in the other direction in the future and Behaviorism (B.F. Skinner, Itard, etc.) will come back into vogue, no doubt. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: It's by no means touchy-feely any more. It's all data driven. I see kindergarten teachers with 3 binders full of data they have collected on individual students. It's all about the data now. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: But the prior post about the 'merkuns didn't want to know.. or something to that effect is not true. FDR installed Deming to make the 'merkun war production hum. Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turned touchy feely instead of discreet quantitative. Everything. It can all be summarized as religion. We live under totalitarian religious-industrial-complex. Don't say God. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
From what I hear the better part of the faculty has decided to give up tenure. Dan I htink that has an untended double meaning. I think Dan meant that most of the the faculty decided to give up tenure for raises. The other meaning is exactly as written. The better part of the faculty, as opposed to the bottom or lesser part (laggards), has decided to give up tenure ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Larry T wrote: I believe the huge salaries spent on administrative staff at schools would be better spent on the teachers. A friend of mine who taught from 1962-1994 said get a 1960 budget, and calculate the percentage spent on teachers. Now get a modern budget and see what percentage is spent on teachers. The problem isn't growth in teaching pay, but growth in administratium. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Gross over-administration is a problem across America. Taught in business schools, accepted as Gospel everywhere. Totally pointless, and can cripple an organization, but it's the norm. The Japanese used to have about 1/15th the number of managers a similar american business had, for instance. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Peter wrote: Totally pointless, and can cripple an organization, but it's the norm. The Japanese used to have about 1/15th the number of managers a similar american business had, for instance. Demming was not liked in US so he went to Japan. I guess this means US still does not like Demming principles since Japan still does things quite well probably much like Demming brought to them. US thrives by top heavy organization. I don't know Demming but perhaps Demming is not as top down as where we are stagnated, and we are failing. We deify war heros and war games and tech. I like okiebenz because there are real people here doing real things, ourselves. This is the reality of this country, not top down managers, and top down politics. We can do everything, from build our own roads to educate our own kids to protect our own shores but much of the top down indoctrination wants us to be brainwashed from kindergarten that top down ownership and allegiance is necessary. It is time for DIY revolt against this mindless hand wringing about asking what our country can do for ME. Let's ask what we can do for our country. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy
Deming was all about process control -- the theory that if you calibrate manufacturing equipment and get a really good handle on what changes in the equipment produce what results, you can adjust on the fly to keep making high quality, proper sized, etc parts rather than making a billion parts and sorting out the good ones (on in the case of GM, pretending you found the good ones and using the bad ones anyway). The system, in various guises, is called statistical process control, and in many places is a wonderful thing. However, one variant at least, Six Sigma, has been applied in many, many wrong ways -- I've heard form some engineers that all statistical process control does is find bad parts. If the process does not have a calibrated knob the operator can turn to change the final part a known amount, statistical process control does nothing for you except generate non-sense data. I've seen people attempt to use Six Sigma for personnel issues, for instance, which is simply insane and demonstrates conclusively that the whole idea simply went over the heads of the people involved. American business schools don't teach much beyond how to steal money and cut costs on a VERY short-term basis, using a vast array of 'business case histories that are fake. Hence the idea that you shouldn't know anything about what you are managing because you are managing people and people are all the same. All compressed flatulence being mascaraded as knowledge, but someone is making a pile of money, so it must be true, eh? Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
