Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

It was sort of a running joke that Dad would outlive us all.  He came from a 
mix of very hearty and very prone to heart disease stock.  Had he taken after 
his mother’s side, he would have died before retirement.  As it was, his 
father’s genetics tended toward outliving your mental capabilities.  So, he 
muddled through massive coronary issues and other health trouble from Viet Nam 
toxics.

What did him in was not the cancer, but the imbecile chinese breast cancer gal 
who had no clue how to handle gerontologic patients.   Complete medical 
incompetence that garnered the attention of the hospital and oncology 
departments, which chastised her.  That was four months into neglecting to 
implement common standards of care in his treatment.

Mom is still going strong at 91.  Out in the rain pulling weeds in her garden 
this past week.



Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sadly, there are bad doctors as well as bad mechanics
> 
> Sorry to hear about your dad Clay.  My mom is hanging in there at 97, still 
> sharp but failing physically.  My father died six months after a bad heart 
> attack in 1976.
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> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Sadly, there are bad doctors as well as bad mechanics

Sorry to hear about your dad Clay.  My mom is hanging in there at 97, still 
sharp but failing physically.  My father died six months after a bad heart 
attack in 1976.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

*Fresh baked bread and bacon drippings*

My uncle would cook toast spread with bacon fat in the oven at 400 degrees.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 8:37 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I haven't eaten in a restaurant since June.
>
> Have gotten take-out a handful of times.
>
> Nobody delivers where I live.
>
> Allan
>
>
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:
>
> >  One good thing about COVID is that our dining out budget has shrunk
> dramatically. We've always cooked but from March until May we "ate out"
> about once a month and that was going to my friend Jon's food truck for the
> best BBQ around.
> > These days we eat out once or twice a week, usually Sunday breakfast. I
> get blueberry pancakes and bacon, eat a third and bring the rest home for
> breakfast Monday and Tuesday...
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 7:41:32 PM EST, Clay Monroe via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> >
> >  Since I know how to cook and remain poor (in my mind, at least), I do
> not regularly partake of commercial food purveyors.  I have noted that
> portion sizes have become Brobdingnagian recently.  I made three meals out
> of the trip to a sit down place in 2019.  As for fast food, I do get
> cravings every few years.  Drive through and grab a “meal”, consume it,
> then spend the next day or so recalling why I do not consort with fast
> food.  That sort of hotdog belch, nasty taste in the mouth, ball of tape
> worms wrestling, water closet tempest events.  So very off putting, that it
> keeps my custom from those shops, until memory fades again.
> >
> >
> > clay
> >
> > I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I haven't eaten in a restaurant since June.

Have gotten take-out a handful of times.

Nobody delivers where I live.

Allan


Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  One good thing about COVID is that our dining out budget has shrunk 
> dramatically. We've always cooked but from March until May we "ate out" about 
> once a month and that was going to my friend Jon's food truck for the best 
> BBQ around.
> These days we eat out once or twice a week, usually Sunday breakfast. I get 
> blueberry pancakes and bacon, eat a third and bring the rest home for 
> breakfast Monday and Tuesday...
> -Curt
>
> On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 7:41:32 PM EST, Clay Monroe via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
>  
>  Since I know how to cook and remain poor (in my mind, at least), I do not 
> regularly partake of commercial food purveyors.  I have noted that portion 
> sizes have become Brobdingnagian recently.  I made three meals out of the 
> trip to a sit down place in 2019.  As for fast food, I do get cravings every 
> few years.  Drive through and grab a “meal”, consume it, then spend the next 
> day or so recalling why I do not consort with fast food.  That sort of hotdog 
> belch, nasty taste in the mouth, ball of tape worms wrestling, water closet 
> tempest events.  So very off putting, that it keeps my custom from those 
> shops, until memory fades again.
>
>
> clay 
>
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

We probably eat out once or twice a week depending on schedule. When I 
am traveling I will eat out every day of the week.


On 12/17/2020 6:51 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

  One good thing about COVID is that our dining out budget has shrunk dramatically. We've 
always cooked but from March until May we "ate out" about once a month and that 
was going to my friend Jon's food truck for the best BBQ around.
These days we eat out once or twice a week, usually Sunday breakfast. I get 
blueberry pancakes and bacon, eat a third and bring the rest home for breakfast 
Monday and Tuesday...
-Curt

 On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 7:41:32 PM EST, Clay Monroe via Mercedes 
 wrote:
  
  Since I know how to cook and remain poor (in my mind, at least), I do not regularly partake of commercial food purveyors.  I have noted that portion sizes have become Brobdingnagian recently.  I made three meals out of the trip to a sit down place in 2019.  As for fast food, I do get cravings every few years.  Drive through and grab a “meal”, consume it, then spend the next day or so recalling why I do not consort with fast food.  That sort of hotdog belch, nasty taste in the mouth, ball of tape worms wrestling, water closet tempest events.  So very off putting, that it keeps my custom from those shops, until memory fades again.



clay

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.




On Dec 17, 2020, at 8:20 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
wrote:

Andrew inquires:


Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?


Starvation perhaps. It seems that in recent years the art of home cooking has 
become a lost art.


Rick

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 One good thing about COVID is that our dining out budget has shrunk 
dramatically. We've always cooked but from March until May we "ate out" about 
once a month and that was going to my friend Jon's food truck for the best BBQ 
around.
These days we eat out once or twice a week, usually Sunday breakfast. I get 
blueberry pancakes and bacon, eat a third and bring the rest home for breakfast 
Monday and Tuesday...
-Curt

On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 7:41:32 PM EST, Clay Monroe via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Since I know how to cook and remain poor (in my mind, at least), I do not 
regularly partake of commercial food purveyors.  I have noted that portion 
sizes have become Brobdingnagian recently.  I made three meals out of the trip 
to a sit down place in 2019.  As for fast food, I do get cravings every few 
years.  Drive through and grab a “meal”, consume it, then spend the next day or 
so recalling why I do not consort with fast food.  That sort of hotdog belch, 
nasty taste in the mouth, ball of tape worms wrestling, water closet tempest 
events.  So very off putting, that it keeps my custom from those shops, until 
memory fades again.


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Dec 17, 2020, at 8:20 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Andrew inquires:
> 
>> Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?
> 
> 
> Starvation perhaps. It seems that in recent years the art of home cooking has 
> become a lost art.
> 
> 
> Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

Even if attention is paid, sometimes the medico fails to explain just what is 
going on.  

Dad had multiple visits to the poop scope folks, history of cancers, and all he 
knew was that there was a benign adenoma in his duodena.  Procto-idiot just 
shared that, and let it fester.  For years.  Even gave him more colonoscopy.  
Then, Dad feels horrid and thinks it is the Warfarin he is taking for clots 
that has made his tummy unhappy.  Lots of vomit and weight loss, he gets an 
ambulance ride and finds out he had stage four gut rot.  Died six months later. 
 He would have been 93 this weekend.



Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 2:11 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Colonoscopy cures colon cancer, since it's almost aways very slow growing.  I 
> had two pre-cancerous polyps removed during my first one -- had I not had it, 
> in ten or fifteen years I would likely have gotten serious colon cancer.  
> Removal of the pre-cancerous polyps removes the origin of eventual cancer -- 
> cheap cure.
> 
> Until a tumor is large enough to affect the water balance in the colon (they 
> tend to leak) or obstructs the bowel, there are usually no symptoms, and by 
> the time symptoms appear, it's inoperable.  Killed a good friend on mine in 
> Canada in 1994.  No colonoscopy in those days, and certainly not for someone 
> 35 years old with no family history.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

Since I know how to cook and remain poor (in my mind, at least), I do not 
regularly partake of commercial food purveyors.  I have noted that portion 
sizes have become Brobdingnagian recently.  I made three meals out of the trip 
to a sit down place in 2019.  As for fast food, I do get cravings every few 
years.  Drive through and grab a “meal”, consume it, then spend the next day or 
so recalling why I do not consort with fast food.  That sort of hotdog belch, 
nasty taste in the mouth, ball of tape worms wrestling, water closet tempest 
events.  So very off putting, that it keeps my custom from those shops, until 
memory fades again.


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Dec 17, 2020, at 8:20 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Andrew inquires:
> 
>> Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?
> 
> 
> Starvation perhaps. It seems that in recent years the art of home cooking has 
> become a lost art.
> 
> 
> Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Colonoscopy cures colon cancer, since it's almost aways very slow growing.  I 
had two pre-cancerous polyps removed during my first one -- had I not had it, 
in ten or fifteen years I would likely have gotten serious colon cancer.  
Removal of the pre-cancerous polyps removes the origin of eventual cancer -- 
cheap cure.

Until a tumor is large enough to affect the water balance in the colon (they 
tend to leak) or obstructs the bowel, there are usually no symptoms, and by the 
time symptoms appear, it's inoperable.  Killed a good friend on mine in Canada 
in 1994.  No colonoscopy in those days, and certainly not for someone 35 years 
old with no family history.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

That is probably a good idea.

On 12/17/2020 11:21 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I would suggest not. Just do what I do and avoid the fries and get apple slices 
instead.

-D


On Dec 17, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:11 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:


The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in
outcomes that other sectors would regard as statistical noise. The
reduction in deaths due to colonoscopies for example - talk about a
solution looking for a problem (at what cost to the consumers?) ...

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:25 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
impunity?

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
McDonald's and their french fries.

In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become

"sticky"

around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.

The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
that the huge "super size" portions started.

Allan


Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:


My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
response from the veg oil.

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--
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

No, probably not.

On 12/17/2020 11:15 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:11 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:


The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in
outcomes that other sectors would regard as statistical noise. The
reduction in deaths due to colonoscopies for example - talk about a
solution looking for a problem (at what cost to the consumers?) ...

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:25 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
impunity?

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
McDonald's and their french fries.

In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become

"sticky"

around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.

The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
that the huge "super size" portions started.

Allan


Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:


My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
response from the veg oil.

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--
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Last time I was at the doctor he was saying something about they have 
started to change their opinions on these as well as prostate exams.   
Something about not worrying about doing it till a later age.   I could 
be remembering it wrong.


On 12/17/2020 11:10 AM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in
outcomes that other sectors would regard as statistical noise. The
reduction in deaths due to colonoscopies for example - talk about a
solution looking for a problem (at what cost to the consumers?) ...

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:25 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
impunity?

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
McDonald's and their french fries.

In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become "sticky"
around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.

The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
that the huge "super size" portions started.

Allan


Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:


My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
response from the veg oil.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

Fresh baked bread and bacon drippings

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Dec 17, 2020, at 12:19 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> 
> I remember hearing an interview with a foodie one time who mentioned being at 
> some fancy food to-do where they were serving lard on toast. He was disgusted 
> by the idea until his buddy said "Why? Its basically the same as butter." 
> Which it kind of is...
> -Curt


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Having been the beneficiary of some of those young ladies (meal-wise, 
not the other way...) I can say that the ride was good while it lasted, 
but the rules changed and that put an end to a lot of the freebies.


Once when the former missus was an oncology fellow at MDAnderson, about 
this time of year a drug rep took 6 or 8 fellows and spouses out for an 
evening at a very nice restaurant in Houston (one that I had been kicked 
out of a coupla years before, but that is a different story...) and I 
happened to sit next to her at the big table.  The waitron brought 
around the wine list, which was very large, and she says "I don't know 
anything about wine, here you take it" and gives it to me.  I figured 3 
bottles would be good to start, so I asked her what her rules were and 
she says "it is the end of the year and I have a lot of my budget left 
so have fun." I ask her, "How much fun?" and she says "As much as you 
want." um, OK...  so I order 3 bottles that were like $150 each, some 
wines I had heard about and one that I had at the same place at a 
business dinner (Enron, my boss bought it) a little while before. So 
those go down pretty fast among that crowd, it's time to order more, so 
I ask her if I should, she says "I didn't really like those why don't 
you order something better."  Uh, OK... so I did. I think we did another 
round too, maybe like dessert wines or something, bubbly, I don't 
remember.  We ate very well too.  I think the bill came to $2-3k that 
evening, she didn't even look twice at it and handed her card over.


Ah for the good old days

PS she was quite a looker too, and a LOT of fun...

--FT

On 12/17/20 4:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

One of those drug company salespeople used to be married to my neighbor across 
the street. I always enjoyed watching her come out to her car every weekday 
morning in her short dress and F-me pumps on her way out to make calls.

-D


On Dec 17, 2020, at 4:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
wrote:

One reason I dislike my cardiologist is that he says things like "Everybody should 
be on a statin" but can point to zero statistical evidence to back up his claim. I 
think a lot of doctors prescribe them because the drug companies tell them how important 
it is at their weekly lunch...
I'm not saying doctors are bought by drug companies but when Angie rented space 
from a doctor I got to eat an awful lot of drug company food.

-Curt



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

One of those drug company salespeople used to be married to my neighbor across 
the street. I always enjoyed watching her come out to her car every weekday 
morning in her short dress and F-me pumps on her way out to make calls.

-D

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 4:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> One reason I dislike my cardiologist is that he says things like "Everybody 
> should be on a statin" but can point to zero statistical evidence to back up 
> his claim. I think a lot of doctors prescribe them because the drug companies 
> tell them how important it is at their weekly lunch...
> I'm not saying doctors are bought by drug companies but when Angie rented 
> space from a doctor I got to eat an awful lot of drug company food.
> 
> -Curt
> 
>On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 4:11:30 PM EST, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> I don't recall anyone in the family having very high cholesterol, I 
> think my dad might have been high but that was because he was a meat 
> man, although in later days he went with oatmeal for brekkie in an 
> attempt to cut down on the bacon sausage and egg contribution.  In any 
> case mine was just a tad "high" so not a huge concern, but if it can be 
> pushed down I guess that is not unreasonable.  I do not have a great 
> affection for meds though, that is the only other one I take so not like 
> I have a pharmacy in the cabinet.  I guess one's body changes as age 
> progresses, I never had any issues until recently so I guess that is 
> what it is as I have not changed my lifestyle much other than to eat 
> less meat, which should be a positive thing.
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 12/17/20 1:39 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> There was a guy I worked with at Kohler some years back who was the textbook 
>> version of a healthy man, exercised regularly, was at or near his proper 
>> weight, BMI was excellent, ate healthy, but he had a history of heart 
>> disease in his family. As a result he was on statins back in the day when 
>> they were pretty new (1990s?) I just recall him telling me what his 
>> cholesterol numbers were, and they were stupid crazy (high). Apparently it 
>> was a genetic thing and there wasn’t a lot he could do about it short of 
>> pharmacological interventions.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Dec 17, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I went to the doc for a checkup a few months ago, had not been for a coupla 
>>> years I think but needed to re-up a prescription and he wouldn't do it 
>>> until got all the blood work, etc.  So he says my cholesterol is a bit 
>>> high, just sorta over the "normal" level. I don't eat much meat, lots of 
>>> veg and fish mostly, I do indulge in a bit of butter and occasional ice 
>>> cream but not a lot.  So not really an unhealthful diet compared to most 
>>> people I see eating all kinds of crap.  Fairly active physically too, not 
>>> really overweight at all (although that Covid-19 seems to be settling along 
>>> my waist...) He told me not to do what I don't do, so that was not 
>>> particularly helpful.
>>> 
>>> It was kinda curious but maybe it is genetic or something, or age-related 
>>> as I have progressed in that aspect...  Anyway he set me up with some 
>>> statin, kinda the lowest dose, to see if it made any difference.  I have 
>>> not noticed any physical reactions.  Dr. Boy was not particularly concerned 
>>> about it so that is another data point.  I guess next time I go see the doc 
>>> I will get another blood workup and see if it made any difference.
>>> 
>>> I have not changed much in diet or exercise so I guess it will be a 
>>> interesting test to see what effect it has.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> 
>>> On 12/16/20 12:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
 My internist wants me to take statins
>>> -- 
>>> --FT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> -- 
> --FT
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I do all my own cooking out of preference, although nothing beats eating
out at a nice restaurant.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 3:28 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> And make candles with the leftovers.
>
> -D
>
> > On Dec 17, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  writes:
> >
> >> Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
> >> impunity?
> >
> > Go back?
> >
> > Allan
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 One reason I dislike my cardiologist is that he says things like "Everybody 
should be on a statin" but can point to zero statistical evidence to back up 
his claim. I think a lot of doctors prescribe them because the drug companies 
tell them how important it is at their weekly lunch...
I'm not saying doctors are bought by drug companies but when Angie rented space 
from a doctor I got to eat an awful lot of drug company food.

-Curt

On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 4:11:30 PM EST, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I don't recall anyone in the family having very high cholesterol, I 
think my dad might have been high but that was because he was a meat 
man, although in later days he went with oatmeal for brekkie in an 
attempt to cut down on the bacon sausage and egg contribution.  In any 
case mine was just a tad "high" so not a huge concern, but if it can be 
pushed down I guess that is not unreasonable.  I do not have a great 
affection for meds though, that is the only other one I take so not like 
I have a pharmacy in the cabinet.  I guess one's body changes as age 
progresses, I never had any issues until recently so I guess that is 
what it is as I have not changed my lifestyle much other than to eat 
less meat, which should be a positive thing.

--FT

On 12/17/20 1:39 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> There was a guy I worked with at Kohler some years back who was the textbook 
> version of a healthy man, exercised regularly, was at or near his proper 
> weight, BMI was excellent, ate healthy, but he had a history of heart disease 
> in his family. As a result he was on statins back in the day when they were 
> pretty new (1990s?) I just recall him telling me what his cholesterol numbers 
> were, and they were stupid crazy (high). Apparently it was a genetic thing 
> and there wasn’t a lot he could do about it short of pharmacological 
> interventions.
>
> -D
>
>> On Dec 17, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> I went to the doc for a checkup a few months ago, had not been for a coupla 
>> years I think but needed to re-up a prescription and he wouldn't do it until 
>> got all the blood work, etc.  So he says my cholesterol is a bit high, just 
>> sorta over the "normal" level. I don't eat much meat, lots of veg and fish 
>> mostly, I do indulge in a bit of butter and occasional ice cream but not a 
>> lot.  So not really an unhealthful diet compared to most people I see eating 
>> all kinds of crap.  Fairly active physically too, not really overweight at 
>> all (although that Covid-19 seems to be settling along my waist...) He told 
>> me not to do what I don't do, so that was not particularly helpful.
>>
>> It was kinda curious but maybe it is genetic or something, or age-related as 
>> I have progressed in that aspect...  Anyway he set me up with some statin, 
>> kinda the lowest dose, to see if it made any difference.  I have not noticed 
>> any physical reactions.  Dr. Boy was not particularly concerned about it so 
>> that is another data point.  I guess next time I go see the doc I will get 
>> another blood workup and see if it made any difference.
>>
>> I have not changed much in diet or exercise so I guess it will be a 
>> interesting test to see what effect it has.
>>
>> --FT
>>
>> On 12/16/20 12:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>>> My internist wants me to take statins
>> -- 
>> --FT
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
-- 
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I remember hearing an interview with a foodie one time who mentioned being at 
some fancy food to-do where they were serving lard on toast. He was disgusted 
by the idea until his buddy said "Why? Its basically the same as butter." Which 
it kind of is...
-Curt

On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 3:41:43 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I've never heard of a beef tallow sandwich, but if you enjoy them, knock
yourself out.


Andrew Strasfogel  writes:

> Sure.  Before there were labeling laws...
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 3:26 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>    Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  writes:
>    
>    > Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
>    > impunity?
>    
>    Go back?
>    
>    Allan
>    

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 LOL.
Do you guys ever watch "Townsends" on YouTube. 18th century cooking in period 
costume, pretty neat...
-Curt

On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 3:26:30 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  writes:

> Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
> impunity?

Go back? 

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I don't recall anyone in the family having very high cholesterol, I 
think my dad might have been high but that was because he was a meat 
man, although in later days he went with oatmeal for brekkie in an 
attempt to cut down on the bacon sausage and egg contribution.  In any 
case mine was just a tad "high" so not a huge concern, but if it can be 
pushed down I guess that is not unreasonable.  I do not have a great 
affection for meds though, that is the only other one I take so not like 
I have a pharmacy in the cabinet.  I guess one's body changes as age 
progresses, I never had any issues until recently so I guess that is 
what it is as I have not changed my lifestyle much other than to eat 
less meat, which should be a positive thing.


--FT

On 12/17/20 1:39 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

There was a guy I worked with at Kohler some years back who was the textbook 
version of a healthy man, exercised regularly, was at or near his proper 
weight, BMI was excellent, ate healthy, but he had a history of heart disease 
in his family. As a result he was on statins back in the day when they were 
pretty new (1990s?) I just recall him telling me what his cholesterol numbers 
were, and they were stupid crazy (high). Apparently it was a genetic thing and 
there wasn’t a lot he could do about it short of pharmacological interventions.

-D


On Dec 17, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes  
wrote:

I went to the doc for a checkup a few months ago, had not been for a coupla years I think 
but needed to re-up a prescription and he wouldn't do it until got all the blood work, 
etc.  So he says my cholesterol is a bit high, just sorta over the "normal" 
level. I don't eat much meat, lots of veg and fish mostly, I do indulge in a bit of 
butter and occasional ice cream but not a lot.  So not really an unhealthful diet 
compared to most people I see eating all kinds of crap.  Fairly active physically too, 
not really overweight at all (although that Covid-19 seems to be settling along my 
waist...) He told me not to do what I don't do, so that was not particularly helpful.

It was kinda curious but maybe it is genetic or something, or age-related as I 
have progressed in that aspect...  Anyway he set me up with some statin, kinda 
the lowest dose, to see if it made any difference.  I have not noticed any 
physical reactions.  Dr. Boy was not particularly concerned about it so that is 
another data point.  I guess next time I go see the doc I will get another 
blood workup and see if it made any difference.

I have not changed much in diet or exercise so I guess it will be a interesting 
test to see what effect it has.

--FT

On 12/16/20 12:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

My internist wants me to take statins

--
--FT


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--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I've never heard of a beef tallow sandwich, but if you enjoy them, knock
yourself out.


Andrew Strasfogel  writes:

> Sure.  Before there were labeling laws...
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 3:26 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
> > impunity?
>
> Go back?
>
> Allan
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Sure.  Before there were labeling laws...

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 3:26 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
> > impunity?
>
> Go back?
>
> Allan
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

And make candles with the leftovers.

-D

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
>> impunity?
> 
> Go back? 
> 
> Allan
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  writes:

> Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
> impunity?

Go back? 

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

There was a guy I worked with at Kohler some years back who was the textbook 
version of a healthy man, exercised regularly, was at or near his proper 
weight, BMI was excellent, ate healthy, but he had a history of heart disease 
in his family. As a result he was on statins back in the day when they were 
pretty new (1990s?) I just recall him telling me what his cholesterol numbers 
were, and they were stupid crazy (high). Apparently it was a genetic thing and 
there wasn’t a lot he could do about it short of pharmacological interventions.

-D

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I went to the doc for a checkup a few months ago, had not been for a coupla 
> years I think but needed to re-up a prescription and he wouldn't do it until 
> got all the blood work, etc.  So he says my cholesterol is a bit high, just 
> sorta over the "normal" level. I don't eat much meat, lots of veg and fish 
> mostly, I do indulge in a bit of butter and occasional ice cream but not a 
> lot.  So not really an unhealthful diet compared to most people I see eating 
> all kinds of crap.  Fairly active physically too, not really overweight at 
> all (although that Covid-19 seems to be settling along my waist...) He told 
> me not to do what I don't do, so that was not particularly helpful.
> 
> It was kinda curious but maybe it is genetic or something, or age-related as 
> I have progressed in that aspect...  Anyway he set me up with some statin, 
> kinda the lowest dose, to see if it made any difference.  I have not noticed 
> any physical reactions.  Dr. Boy was not particularly concerned about it so 
> that is another data point.  I guess next time I go see the doc I will get 
> another blood workup and see if it made any difference.
> 
> I have not changed much in diet or exercise so I guess it will be a 
> interesting test to see what effect it has.
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 12/16/20 12:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>> My internist wants me to take statins
> 
> -- 
> --FT
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I went to the doc for a checkup a few months ago, had not been for a 
coupla years I think but needed to re-up a prescription and he wouldn't 
do it until got all the blood work, etc.  So he says my cholesterol is a 
bit high, just sorta over the "normal" level. I don't eat much meat, 
lots of veg and fish mostly, I do indulge in a bit of butter and 
occasional ice cream but not a lot.  So not really an unhealthful diet 
compared to most people I see eating all kinds of crap.  Fairly active 
physically too, not really overweight at all (although that Covid-19 
seems to be settling along my waist...) He told me not to do what I 
don't do, so that was not particularly helpful.


It was kinda curious but maybe it is genetic or something, or 
age-related as I have progressed in that aspect...  Anyway he set me up 
with some statin, kinda the lowest dose, to see if it made any 
difference.  I have not noticed any physical reactions.  Dr. Boy was not 
particularly concerned about it so that is another data point.  I guess 
next time I go see the doc I will get another blood workup and see if it 
made any difference.


I have not changed much in diet or exercise so I guess it will be a 
interesting test to see what effect it has.


--FT

On 12/16/20 12:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

My internist wants me to take statins


--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Better yet:

https://youtu.be/0RD49DYTlrk?t=247 

-D

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> https://i.redd.it/viya2ij22yz31.jpg 
> 
> I can make apple slices for myself...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 12:21:32 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I would suggest not. Just do what I do and avoid the fries and get apple 
> slices instead.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 17, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?
> > 
> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:11 PM OK Don via Mercedes  > >
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in
> >> outcomes that other sectors would regard as statistical noise. The
> >> reduction in deaths due to colonoscopies for example - talk about a
> >> solution looking for a problem (at what cost to the consumers?) ...
> >> 
> >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:25 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com > wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
> >>> impunity?
> >>> 
> >>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com > wrote:
> >>> 
>  The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
>  beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
>  Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
>  nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
>  cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
>  chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
>  McDonald's and their french fries.
>  
>  In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
>  of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
>  of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
>  the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become
> >> "sticky"
>  around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
>  become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
>  oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.
>  
>  The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
>  trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
>  fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
>  that the huge "super size" portions started.
>  
>  Allan
>  
>  
>  Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes   > writes:
>  
> > My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
> > when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
> > less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
> > you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
> > response from the veg oil.
>  
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com 
>  
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
>  
>  
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
>  
>  
>  
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >>> 
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> --
> >> OK Don
> >> 
> >> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> >> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >> 
> >> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> >> Wernher
> >> Von Braun
> >> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> >> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> >> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >> 
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 https://i.redd.it/viya2ij22yz31.jpg
I can make apple slices for myself...
-Curt

On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 12:21:32 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I would suggest not. Just do what I do and avoid the fries and get apple 
slices instead.

-D

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?
> 
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:11 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in
>> outcomes that other sectors would regard as statistical noise. The
>> reduction in deaths due to colonoscopies for example - talk about a
>> solution looking for a problem (at what cost to the consumers?) ...
>> 
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:25 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
>>> impunity?
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
 beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
 Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
 nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
 cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
 chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
 McDonald's and their french fries.
 
 In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
 of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
 of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
 the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become
>> "sticky"
 around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
 become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
 oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.
 
 The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
 trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
 fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
 that the huge "super size" portions started.
 
 Allan
 
 
 Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
 
> My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
> when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
> less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
> you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
> response from the veg oil.
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I would suggest not. Just do what I do and avoid the fries and get apple slices 
instead.

-D

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?
> 
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:11 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in
>> outcomes that other sectors would regard as statistical noise. The
>> reduction in deaths due to colonoscopies for example - talk about a
>> solution looking for a problem (at what cost to the consumers?) ...
>> 
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:25 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
>>> impunity?
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
 beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
 Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
 nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
 cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
 chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
 McDonald's and their french fries.
 
 In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
 of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
 of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
 the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become
>> "sticky"
 around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
 become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
 oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.
 
 The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
 trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
 fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
 that the huge "super size" portions started.
 
 Allan
 
 
 Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
 
> My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
> when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
> less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
> you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
> response from the veg oil.
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

In that particular situation I think it’s more a matter that colon cancer is 
very slow to progress and not something who’s symptoms are noticed until it’s 
at an advanced stage. Considering that there’s a 10 year span between 
recommended checks I don’t see it being a major expense for the population as a 
whole (no pun intended, of course!)

-D who has one coming up in a couple of years

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 12:10 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in
> outcomes that other sectors would regard as statistical noise. The
> reduction in deaths due to colonoscopies for example - talk about a
> solution looking for a problem (at what cost to the consumers?) ...
> 
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:25 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
>> impunity?
>> 
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
>>> beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
>>> Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
>>> nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
>>> cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
>>> chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
>>> McDonald's and their french fries.
>>> 
>>> In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
>>> of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
>>> of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
>>> the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become "sticky"
>>> around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
>>> become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
>>> oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.
>>> 
>>> The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
>>> trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
>>> fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
>>> that the huge "super size" portions started.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
 My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
 when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
 less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
 you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
 response from the veg oil.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Andrew inquires:

>Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?


Starvation perhaps. It seems that in recent years the art of home cooking has 
become a lost art.


Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Ok Don says:

>The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in outcomes 
>that other sectors would regard as statistical noise

Then the medical industry should be thrilled about this study. But I suspect 
they are not. No money to be made

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT04425850?view=results


Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Is there any health risk to NEVER eating at a fast food restaurant?

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:11 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in
> outcomes that other sectors would regard as statistical noise. The
> reduction in deaths due to colonoscopies for example - talk about a
> solution looking for a problem (at what cost to the consumers?) ...
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:25 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
> > impunity?
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
> > > beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
> > > Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
> > > nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
> > > cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
> > > chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
> > > McDonald's and their french fries.
> > >
> > > In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
> > > of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
> > > of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
> > > the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become
> "sticky"
> > > around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
> > > become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
> > > oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.
> > >
> > > The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
> > > trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
> > > fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
> > > that the huge "super size" portions started.
> > >
> > > Allan
> > >
> > >
> > > Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
> > >
> > > > My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
> > > > when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
> > > > less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
> > > > you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
> > > > response from the veg oil.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The whole medical industry gets really excited about small changes in
outcomes that other sectors would regard as statistical noise. The
reduction in deaths due to colonoscopies for example - talk about a
solution looking for a problem (at what cost to the consumers?) ...

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:25 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
> impunity?
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
> > beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
> > Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
> > nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
> > cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
> > chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
> > McDonald's and their french fries.
> >
> > In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
> > of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
> > of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
> > the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become "sticky"
> > around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
> > become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
> > oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.
> >
> > The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
> > trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
> > fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
> > that the huge "super size" portions started.
> >
> > Allan
> >
> >
> > Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
> >
> > > My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
> > > when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
> > > less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
> > > you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
> > > response from the veg oil.
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I've never made fries in beef tallow but I have fried them in pig lard, best 
dang fries I've ever had. I think its probably true that we ate fewer of them. 
Part of that is probably from the amount my mouth gets burned trying to eat 
burning hot fries since they're so good...

-Curt

On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 11:37:03 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes  wrote:  
 
 My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that when people 
where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way less than fries 
cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling you that you are full on 
the beef but it takes much longer to get the response from the veg oil. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 16, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> More likely the preservatives in the oils rather than the oils themselves, 
> plus residual pesticides and herbicides.
> 
> The sugar industry spent amazing amounts of money telling us fat was bad for 
> us, when in fact it's sugar that's bad for us and fat is good so long as you 
> don't go berzerker on the amounts.  
> 
> However, BHT, nitrites, BHA, benzoic acid, and who know what else that is 
> used to prevent oxidation and microbial growth are far from benign, and all 
> are GRASS -- generally regarded as safe -- since they were in use before food 
> safety laws were passed.
> 
> And trans fats are lethal, something I've known for almost 50 years now
> 
> Another interesting note I gleaned from the literature -- the decrease in 
> heart disease credited to lowering cholesterol in the serum matches perfectly 
> the reduction in trans fats in the food supply.  I would bet the reduction in 
> trans fats is the single greatest contributor to reduction in heart disease.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Allan, so this means I can go back to eating beef tallow sandwiches with
impunity?

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
> beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
> Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
> nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
> cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
> chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
> McDonald's and their french fries.
>
> In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
> of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
> of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
> the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become "sticky"
> around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
> become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
> oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.
>
> The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
> trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
> fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
> that the huge "super size" portions started.
>
> Allan
>
>
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
> > when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
> > less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
> > you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
> > response from the veg oil.
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Peter Frederick wrote *"The sugar industry spent amazing amounts of money
telling us fat was bad for us, when in fact it's sugar that's bad for us." *

No less a medical expert than George Hamilton famously said in an
interview: "Sugar kills."

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:37 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
> beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
> Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
> nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
> cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
> chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
> McDonald's and their french fries.
>
> In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
> of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
> of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
> the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become "sticky"
> around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
> become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
> oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.
>
> The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
> trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
> fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
> that the huge "super size" portions started.
>
> Allan
>
>
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
> > when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
> > less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
> > you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
> > response from the veg oil.
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

The whole debacle that was the crusade to get McDonald's to switch from
beef tallow to vegetable oil was led by a wealthy activist named Phil
Sokolof who had no qualifications or training in medicine or
nutrition. He had survived a heart attack and became convinced that
cholesterol was a great evil that needed to be removed from the food
chain. He started running full-page ads in major markets attacking
McDonald's and their french fries.

In what has to be one of the greatest ironies/tragedies in the history
of pop nutrition, McDonalds eventually caved, and started using a blend
of hydrogenated vegetable oils to cook the fries. You may remember that
the tables and door handles at McDonald's all started to become "sticky"
around that time, because the hydrogenated fry oil particles in the air
become a sort of a tacky plastic when they settle on surfaces and
oxidize. Imagine that circulating in your arteries.

The french fries became cholesterol-free but they were now loaded with
trans-fats. And the public was convinced that they were now *healthier*
fries, so they ate more of them and that's also right around the time
that the huge "super size" portions started.

Allan


Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:

> My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that
> when people where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way
> less than fries cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling
> you that you are full on the beef but it takes much longer to get the
> response from the veg oil.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

My doctor buddy the other day was telling me about some study that when people 
where fed French fries cooked in beef tallow they ate way less than fries 
cooked in veg oil. Something about the body telling you that you are full on 
the beef but it takes much longer to get the response from the veg oil. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 16, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> More likely the preservatives in the oils rather than the oils themselves, 
> plus residual pesticides and herbicides.
> 
> The sugar industry spent amazing amounts of money telling us fat was bad for 
> us, when in fact it's sugar that's bad for us and fat is good so long as you 
> don't go berzerker on the amounts.  
> 
> However, BHT, nitrites, BHA, benzoic acid, and who know what else that is 
> used to prevent oxidation and microbial growth are far from benign, and all 
> are GRASS -- generally regarded as safe -- since they were in use before food 
> safety laws were passed.
> 
> And trans fats are lethal, something I've known for almost 50 years now
> 
> Another interesting note I gleaned from the literature -- the decrease in 
> heart disease credited to lowering cholesterol in the serum matches perfectly 
> the reduction in trans fats in the food supply.  I would bet the reduction in 
> trans fats is the single greatest contributor to reduction in heart disease.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

More likely the preservatives in the oils rather than the oils themselves, plus 
residual pesticides and herbicides.

The sugar industry spent amazing amounts of money telling us fat was bad for 
us, when in fact it's sugar that's bad for us and fat is good so long as you 
don't go berzerker on the amounts.  

However, BHT, nitrites, BHA, benzoic acid, and who know what else that is used 
to prevent oxidation and microbial growth are far from benign, and all are 
GRASS -- generally regarded as safe -- since they were in use before food 
safety laws were passed.

And trans fats are lethal, something I've known for almost 50 years now

Another interesting note I gleaned from the literature -- the decrease in heart 
disease credited to lowering cholesterol in the serum matches perfectly the 
reduction in trans fats in the food supply.  I would bet the reduction in trans 
fats is the single greatest contributor to reduction in heart disease.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Peter says:

>My theory is that something else causes >inflamation of the arterial wall, and 
>the body >responds by making plaque

Yep. Probably the body's response to the high carbohydrate diet of the US, 
specifically HFCS, refined grains, and vegetable oils.

The FDA, and heart association guide lines are causing heart disease. Imagine 
that. It makes one wonder what else the government misleads the public about.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 IIRC I'm on atorvastatin now, I think it was simvastatin before. I don't 
appear to have any ill effects this round so nothing to balance.
-Curt

On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 2:05:49 PM EST, Andrew Strasfogel via 
Mercedes  wrote:  
 
 Great to hear - not what I expected.

Curt - which statin are you on now? Do you take CoQ to balance the effects?

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 1:31 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I was on them about 15 years ago. I stopped taking them (I don’t recall
> any side effects) and started exercising. Next time the doctor saw me they
> thought I was still on them because my cholesterol had gone down.
>
> -D
>
> > On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > My last doctor had me on them for years. My current doctor said I did
> not need them and took me off of them.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2020, at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> #1 most common side effect is muscle/joint pain. The first statin I
> took gave me terrible back pain. The one I take now doesn't seem to bother
> me.
> >> I'm due for new blood work, I'm interested to see if exercise has
> helped that any.
> >> Curt
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 12:21 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:  My internist wants me to take statins
> because of slightly elevated LDL
> >> levels.  Supposedly this will improve my 19% elevated risk of coronary
> >> disease without significant downside.  Anyone taking statins?  Any
> downside
> >> to doing this?  Is it worth attempting other approach(es) to correcting
> my
> >> cholesterol imbalance?
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I'm one of the original statin skeptics.  

First and foremost, I have a PhD in biology (Plant Physiology, but I got to 
take animal physiology along the way) and I have never seen any investigations 
concerning the pathway by which serum cholesterol  causes plaque formation (the 
fancy name for arterial schlerosis or coronary artery disease).  From the 
publications I've read, the range of heart disease vs cholesterol concentration 
indicates a slight (meaning small) difference between groups with and 
without higher cholesterol, and the distribution of severity of disease and 
serum cholesterol concentration is pretty much random.  There is NOT a high 
slope correlation, and every study I've looked at shows cases of significant 
heart disease at both low and high concentrations of serum cholesterol.

My interpretation is that there is a connection, but that connection between 
cholesterol and heart disease is the presence of cholesterol in arterial 
plaque, not that serum cholesterol causes plaque.  Bad science, and that's not 
a surprise be cause the research is almost always sponsored by pharmaceutical 
companies.  They sell drugs, eh?

Personally, I've had "elevated" cholesterol since at least 1983, and as of 
three or four years ago zero (undetectable -- my cardiologist said not a hint) 
of coronary artery disease after a cardiac catherization and three or four 
echocardiograms.  Zero.  

I refused to take a statin when the PA at my doctor's office wanted to give it 
to me.  Lots of bad side effects, no benefit to me.

Note that cholesterol is a substantial constituent of animal cell membranes -- 
without it, your cells would burst, so it's not a "bad" thing.  Deposits of 
plaque containing cholesterol in arteries are a serious problem, but until 
someone demonstrates how slightly elevated serum LDL levels CAUSES plaque 
formation, no statins here.

My theory is that something else causes inflamation of the arterial wall, and 
the body responds by making plaque (which contains calcium, anyone want to take 
drugs to reduce calcium?) and hence all the circulation issues.  I suspect we 
can prevent a lot of heart disease when we find out how that happens and do 
something to prevent it.

As for reducing serum cholesterol, avoid short chain saturated fatty acids 
(coconut oil) -- the long chain ones are OK, it's the short ones that induce 
the liver to make cholesterol, avoid fructose either as table sugar or as high 
fructose syrups and honey, eat lots of fiber, and avoid foods with 
preservatives.  Cook your own from fresh.  Dietary cholesterol has little or no 
effect on serum levels by the way, but I'd still not eat a dozen eggs a day or 
anything silly.  Maintain proper weight, drink only in moderation.  Get some 
exercise.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

They are pretty well tolerated, but can cause muscle inflammation. So you
should have a reason to be on them. They are pretty good for anyone with
atherosclerotic vascular disease, or any of the things that go with that
e.g. history of angina or heart attack, diabetes, TIA/stroke, aortic
aneurysm, high blood pressure, or renovascular disease. Many people with
vascular disease have elevated lipids, a smoking history or diabetes, but
not always. Sometimes a strong family history is sufficient to start
someone. An unfavorable lipid profile is the most common reason though.

To Dan's point, exercise is great for the hdl:ldl ratio, which is one of
the things we look at to determine who would benefit from a statin. Oat
bran is pretty good too, so consider oatmeal or cheerios daily, which has a
salutary effect upon digestion as a side benefit, and may help to prevent
colon cancer.

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 10:32 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I was on them about 15 years ago. I stopped taking them (I don’t recall
> any side effects) and started exercising. Next time the doctor saw me they
> thought I was still on them because my cholesterol had gone down.
>
> -D
>
> > On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > My last doctor had me on them for years. My current doctor said I did
> not need them and took me off of them.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2020, at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> #1 most common side effect is muscle/joint pain. The first statin I
> took gave me terrible back pain. The one I take now doesn't seem to bother
> me.
> >> I'm due for new blood work, I'm interested to see if exercise has
> helped that any.
> >> Curt
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 12:21 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   My internist wants me to take statins
> because of slightly elevated LDL
> >> levels.  Supposedly this will improve my 19% elevated risk of coronary
> >> disease without significant downside.  Anyone taking statins?  Any
> downside
> >> to doing this?  Is it worth attempting other approach(es) to correcting
> my
> >> cholesterol imbalance?
> >> ___
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> >>
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> >>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Diet and exercise - like for almost everything else ...

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 11:21 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My internist wants me to take statins because of slightly elevated LDL
> levels.  Supposedly this will improve my 19% elevated risk of coronary
> disease without significant downside.  Anyone taking statins?  Any downside
> to doing this?  Is it worth attempting other approach(es) to correcting my
> cholesterol imbalance?
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>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Great to hear - not what I expected.

Curt - which statin are you on now? Do you take CoQ to balance the effects?

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 1:31 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I was on them about 15 years ago. I stopped taking them (I don’t recall
> any side effects) and started exercising. Next time the doctor saw me they
> thought I was still on them because my cholesterol had gone down.
>
> -D
>
> > On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > My last doctor had me on them for years. My current doctor said I did
> not need them and took me off of them.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2020, at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> #1 most common side effect is muscle/joint pain. The first statin I
> took gave me terrible back pain. The one I take now doesn't seem to bother
> me.
> >> I'm due for new blood work, I'm interested to see if exercise has
> helped that any.
> >> Curt
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 12:21 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   My internist wants me to take statins
> because of slightly elevated LDL
> >> levels.  Supposedly this will improve my 19% elevated risk of coronary
> >> disease without significant downside.  Anyone taking statins?  Any
> downside
> >> to doing this?  Is it worth attempting other approach(es) to correcting
> my
> >> cholesterol imbalance?
> >> ___
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> >>
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> >>
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I was on them about 15 years ago. I stopped taking them (I don’t recall any 
side effects) and started exercising. Next time the doctor saw me they thought 
I was still on them because my cholesterol had gone down.

-D

> On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> My last doctor had me on them for years. My current doctor said I did not 
> need them and took me off of them. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2020, at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> #1 most common side effect is muscle/joint pain. The first statin I took 
>> gave me terrible back pain. The one I take now doesn't seem to bother me.
>> I'm due for new blood work, I'm interested to see if exercise has helped 
>> that any.
>> Curt
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 12:21 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via 
>> Mercedes wrote:   My internist wants me to take 
>> statins because of slightly elevated LDL
>> levels.  Supposedly this will improve my 19% elevated risk of coronary
>> disease without significant downside.  Anyone taking statins?  Any downside
>> to doing this?  Is it worth attempting other approach(es) to correcting my
>> cholesterol imbalance?
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

My last doctor had me on them for years. My current doctor said I did not need 
them and took me off of them. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 16, 2020, at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> #1 most common side effect is muscle/joint pain. The first statin I took 
> gave me terrible back pain. The one I take now doesn't seem to bother me.
> I'm due for new blood work, I'm interested to see if exercise has helped that 
> any.
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 12:21 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via 
> Mercedes wrote:   My internist wants me to take 
> statins because of slightly elevated LDL
> levels.  Supposedly this will improve my 19% elevated risk of coronary
> disease without significant downside.  Anyone taking statins?  Any downside
> to doing this?  Is it worth attempting other approach(es) to correcting my
> cholesterol imbalance?
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

"The indigo dyer wears white trousers."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/news-blog/cholesterol-drug-scientist-receives-2008-09-12/

http://healthread.net/statin-dangers-risks.htm

If the fellow that discovered them won't take them, why would you?


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: December 16, 2020 11:21 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: astrasfo...@gmail.com
Subject: [MBZ] OT: Statins

My internist wants me to take statins because of slightly elevated LDL
levels.  Supposedly this will improve my 19% elevated risk of coronary
disease without significant downside.  Anyone taking statins?  Any downside
to doing this?  Is it worth attempting other approach(es) to correcting my
cholesterol imbalance?
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Statins

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

#1 most common side effect is muscle/joint pain. The first statin I took gave 
me terrible back pain. The one I take now doesn't seem to bother me.
I'm due for new blood work, I'm interested to see if exercise has helped that 
any.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 12:21 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via 
Mercedes wrote:   My internist wants me to take statins 
because of slightly elevated LDL
levels.  Supposedly this will improve my 19% elevated risk of coronary
disease without significant downside.  Anyone taking statins?  Any downside
to doing this?  Is it worth attempting other approach(es) to correcting my
cholesterol imbalance?
___
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
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[MBZ] OT: Statins

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

My internist wants me to take statins because of slightly elevated LDL
levels.  Supposedly this will improve my 19% elevated risk of coronary
disease without significant downside.  Anyone taking statins?  Any downside
to doing this?  Is it worth attempting other approach(es) to correcting my
cholesterol imbalance?
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com