Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
My dim brain power says to watch Blade Runner to see what could come of this. --R Redghost wrote: J Off the wall, but I am sure there is enough brain power on the list to at least shine a very dim light on the topic
Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
Hmmm. So there are errors right off the bat? That can not be good. Well, I guess there are standard errors and deviations that do not really create damage in standard reproduction, so it should be fine for some errors in replication. Maybe it was the point at which the deviations from a norm specification were induced that I was trying to see. What would have the least probability of producing terminal errors and maintaining as close to original specifications? Not that it matters if I am just going to be outsourced to a turkey baster anyway. clay On May 23, 2007, at 5:49 AM, Tony Wirtel wrote: Just screwing around with an old ipod trying to make sure it would work for my 6 year old to listen to. Got one of those off the wall thoughts pop in to my empty head What would the replication errors be, or would there be, if a woman were to carry her own clone? How many generations hence before errors would be induced if you used the original donor in succeeding generation vs. donation from prior generation to source the next? Off the wall, but I am sure there is enough brain power on the list to at least shine a very dim light on the topic -- Clay Seattle Bioburner Clay: Not an expert, but there are ALWAYS replication errors; what changes are the quantity. After that I believe its simply a matter of statistics of error probability taking over. To VERY broadly generalize if you're error rate is 1%, over 10 generations the probability of success would be about 90%; if error rate is 99.9%, then over the same 10 generations you'd be at about 99%. This assumes much, perhaps the most important factor being that the error rate would not change. That said, with advances in science and medicine as well as cars that are more reliable while also increasingly DIY unfriendly men are pretty much SOL, anyway (grin). Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
Um, babes ain't bananas, but I catch the drift. I was thinking along the lines of not using the original source material but once or twice, and then allowing the use of progeny as source matter, so that any errors in duplication would evolve as the line continued. AT some point there would be a self termination error induced, but at what point? I am sure external forces would impact the viability of the line quickly, but would the line self- destruct before that happens? clay On May 23, 2007, at 8:08 AM, Ed Booher wrote: On 5/22/07, Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What would the replication errors be, or would there be, if a woman were to carry her own clone? How many generations hence before errors would be induced if you used the original donor in succeeding generation vs. donation from prior generation to source the next? Off the wall, but I am sure there is enough brain power on the list to at least shine a very dim light on the topic Well, the largest problem you run into first is that the process of cloning is not exact as of yet. Too many errors are still introduced merely by man trying to meddle in a natural process. So at this time, you'd have genetic errors in the first generation. Now, supposing that man ever gets to a point where genetic clones of humans are a 100% reliable possibility, then you get into an even different problem. The clone being a duplicate representation of the mother carrying the child, the mother's body would be unable to tell any difference between the child and the mother. Meaning any disease, cancer, etc that the mother may have/contract during the 9 month incubation would have a far larger risk of being transferred to the clone child as the genetics involved can not tell a difference and begin to rewrite the clone DNA with the same RNA rewriting the mothers. Further, look at the plight of the banana. Some 65 or so years ago (roughly, going by memory instead of taking research time to pull proper data) there was a banana that was known as the Big Mike. People that still remember the Mike say that it was a firmer, sweeter banana than we have today. Heck, some of the listers may remember the Big Mike. Every banana that we eat today, that we think of as the banana, the bright yellow color, the curvature, the God inspired easy open handle is a clone. They are all genetically identical. So was the Big Mike, it too was a genetic clone. Every Mike was the same on the cellular level. Today, you will not find a Mike. Period. They are extinct. A disease ran rampant through the Mike. It spread, eventually, to every banana field in the world that grew the Mike. Because they were cloned, there was no genetic alterations, no differences, that allowed any strain of MIke to become impervious to the disease, and as such, every last one was wiped out. Today, the same has started occuring to the Cavendish Banana (the bright yellow, etc) and there may be one day soon that we have to start eating a completely different banana again. As the last of the Cavendish becomes extinct. A perfect human clone would face the same fate after 20 or so generations. There wouldn't be enough genetic differences left in the gene pool to combat all diseases and the race would slowly die out. Probably. -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
I think Blade Runner was dealing with androids not clones. The company had made psuedo people that were closer to human and had to have self limiting systems engineered into them so as not to upset the locals. Then the gummint got involved and it just went down hill. Sean Young sure was a hotty in that flick. Too bad she lost her mind and . clay On May 23, 2007, at 4:50 PM, Rich Thomas wrote: My dim brain power says to watch Blade Runner to see what could come of this. --R Redghost wrote: J Off the wall, but I am sure there is enough brain power on the list to at least shine a very dim light on the topic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
I am far from knowledgeable on this, but IIRC it is pretty normal for errors to occur when a chromosome set replicates. There is also a 'checking' system that discards most of the errors. Some get through and most don't matter, but I suppose this accounts for much of the change we see in a population over the years. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 12:22 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors Hmmm. So there are errors right off the bat? That can not be good. Well, I guess there are standard errors and deviations that do not really create damage in standard reproduction, so it should be fine for some errors in replication. Maybe it was the point at which the deviations from a norm specification were induced that I was trying to see. What would have the least probability of producing terminal errors and maintaining as close to original specifications? Not that it matters if I am just going to be outsourced to a turkey baster anyway. clay On May 23, 2007, at 5:49 AM, Tony Wirtel wrote: Just screwing around with an old ipod trying to make sure it would work for my 6 year old to listen to. Got one of those off the wall thoughts pop in to my empty head What would the replication errors be, or would there be, if a woman were to carry her own clone? How many generations hence before errors would be induced if you used the original donor in succeeding generation vs. donation from prior generation to source the next? Off the wall, but I am sure there is enough brain power on the list to at least shine a very dim light on the topic -- Clay Seattle Bioburner Clay: Not an expert, but there are ALWAYS replication errors; what changes are the quantity. After that I believe its simply a matter of statistics of error probability taking over. To VERY broadly generalize if you're error rate is 1%, over 10 generations the probability of success would be about 90%; if error rate is 99.9%, then over the same 10 generations you'd be at about 99%. This assumes much, perhaps the most important factor being that the error rate would not change. That said, with advances in science and medicine as well as cars that are more reliable while also increasingly DIY unfriendly men are pretty much SOL, anyway (grin). Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
They were replicants whatever that meant. There were a few that did not have time limits engineered in. I recently heard that Harrison Ford's character (I forget his name in the flick) was one of these. H... You might be thinking of the book, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. --R Redghost wrote: I think Blade Runner was dealing with androids not clones.
Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
Clay wrote: Um, babes ain't bananas, but I catch the drift. I have no idea what are you all are talking about. But, I did catch enough of the discussion that your line made me laugh! Donald H. Snook 1990 300SEL 137K (For Sale)
Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
The movie was based on that Philip K. Dick book. I did not know that he may have been a replicant. I understood that Sean Young had been engineered without the limiter. I guess with each iteration of the DVD release we will be getting more data to build on the story of just what may have transpired. clay On May 24, 2007, at 6:17 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: They were replicants whatever that meant. There were a few that did not have time limits engineered in. I recently heard that Harrison Ford's character (I forget his name in the flick) was one of these. H... You might be thinking of the book, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. --R Redghost wrote: I think Blade Runner was dealing with androids not clones. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT - Replication errors
Just screwing around with an old ipod trying to make sure it would work for my 6 year old to listen to. Got one of those off the wall thoughts pop in to my empty head What would the replication errors be, or would there be, if a woman were to carry her own clone? How many generations hence before errors would be induced if you used the original donor in succeeding generation vs. donation from prior generation to source the next? Off the wall, but I am sure there is enough brain power on the list to at least shine a very dim light on the topic -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
If a man is standing in the middle of the woods, 6 miles from any women he says something, is he still wrong? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:13 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors Just screwing around with an old ipod trying to make sure it would work for my 6 year old to listen to. Got one of those off the wall thoughts pop in to my empty head What would the replication errors be, or would there be, if a woman were to carry her own clone? How many generations hence before errors would be induced if you used the original donor in succeeding generation vs. donation from prior generation to source the next? Off the wall, but I am sure there is enough brain power on the list to at least shine a very dim light on the topic -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT - Replication errors
Just screwing around with an old ipod trying to make sure it would work for my 6 year old to listen to. Got one of those off the wall thoughts pop in to my empty head What would the replication errors be, or would there be, if a woman were to carry her own clone? How many generations hence before errors would be induced if you used the original donor in succeeding generation vs. donation from prior generation to source the next? Off the wall, but I am sure there is enough brain power on the list to at least shine a very dim light on the topic -- Clay Seattle Bioburner Clay: Not an expert, but there are ALWAYS replication errors; what changes are the quantity. After that I believe its simply a matter of statistics of error probability taking over. To VERY broadly generalize if you're error rate is 1%, over 10 generations the probability of success would be about 90%; if error rate is 99.9%, then over the same 10 generations you'd be at about 99%. This assumes much, perhaps the most important factor being that the error rate would not change. That said, with advances in science and medicine as well as cars that are more reliable while also increasingly DIY unfriendly men are pretty much SOL, anyway (grin). Tony Wirtel
Re: [MBZ] OT - Replication errors
On 5/22/07, Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What would the replication errors be, or would there be, if a woman were to carry her own clone? How many generations hence before errors would be induced if you used the original donor in succeeding generation vs. donation from prior generation to source the next? Off the wall, but I am sure there is enough brain power on the list to at least shine a very dim light on the topic Well, the largest problem you run into first is that the process of cloning is not exact as of yet. Too many errors are still introduced merely by man trying to meddle in a natural process. So at this time, you'd have genetic errors in the first generation. Now, supposing that man ever gets to a point where genetic clones of humans are a 100% reliable possibility, then you get into an even different problem. The clone being a duplicate representation of the mother carrying the child, the mother's body would be unable to tell any difference between the child and the mother. Meaning any disease, cancer, etc that the mother may have/contract during the 9 month incubation would have a far larger risk of being transferred to the clone child as the genetics involved can not tell a difference and begin to rewrite the clone DNA with the same RNA rewriting the mothers. Further, look at the plight of the banana. Some 65 or so years ago (roughly, going by memory instead of taking research time to pull proper data) there was a banana that was known as the Big Mike. People that still remember the Mike say that it was a firmer, sweeter banana than we have today. Heck, some of the listers may remember the Big Mike. Every banana that we eat today, that we think of as the banana, the bright yellow color, the curvature, the God inspired easy open handle is a clone. They are all genetically identical. So was the Big Mike, it too was a genetic clone. Every Mike was the same on the cellular level. Today, you will not find a Mike. Period. They are extinct. A disease ran rampant through the Mike. It spread, eventually, to every banana field in the world that grew the Mike. Because they were cloned, there was no genetic alterations, no differences, that allowed any strain of MIke to become impervious to the disease, and as such, every last one was wiped out. Today, the same has started occuring to the Cavendish Banana (the bright yellow, etc) and there may be one day soon that we have to start eating a completely different banana again. As the last of the Cavendish becomes extinct. A perfect human clone would face the same fate after 20 or so generations. There wouldn't be enough genetic differences left in the gene pool to combat all diseases and the race would slowly die out. Probably. -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
