Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

My son wanted a gaming PC built from scratch. I found a local guy on Craig's 
who had some surplus Lenovo ThinkStations for $300, including W7 for an OS. 
Xeon processor with 12G of DDR3 Ram. all he needed to add was a mid-end video 
card to run his games, but he also doubled the RAM. Saved a bunch vs. building 
from scratch. I think these sold for about $3K when new. He's very happy with 
this machine.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK Don via 
Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 11:47 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: OK Don
Subject: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
mid 2000's.

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I had a Mac Pro 1,1 that was hacked to run the most current OSX version along 
with dumping upgraded processors (5365 SLAEGs) and lots of memory.  It 
continued to be a powerful machine up until the time I sold it last year.  It 
really cranked on rendering.

Now I have a 3,1 with an Apple RAID using 15k drives along with 32GB of RAM.  
It screams as well, but not significantly better than the 1,1, I think.  Still 
a great machine, can’t beat it for $350.

Dan


> On May 6, 2016, at 12:22 PM, Ed Booher via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The XW8400 and Mac Pro 1,1 are nearly identical systems, as far as both are
> based on the Intel Xeon 53XX reference board. They use the same CPUs, the
> same RAM, the same bridge chips. The primary difference is the Apple ROM on
> the Mac Pro board vs PC BIOS on the XW8400. Oh, and the XW8400 / XW8600
> have integrated SAS / RAID controller. I had OS X running on the XW8400 at
> one point, and it was painful because of that RAID. The disk controller ran
> all kinds of hell on the .kext system in OS X. If I remember correctly, I
> may have even needed a third-party SATA controller to get the boot volume
> up so it could load the .kext to even address the RAID. Been a few years.
> 
> The funny thing is, my wife has a Mac Pro 5,1 mid 2010 (if memory is
> serving) and the XW8400 re-encodes video nearly 3x faster. Though hers
> doesn't have the dual quad ... believe hers is a single quad Nehalem? Not
> home so can't pull up System Information.
> 
> On the reverse side, I do have to say this: I got a 5TB drive from my
> parents as a Christmas gift, the XW8400 BIOS can't reference past about
> 2.5. So my drive is in the wife's Mac and I'm going to pull her 2TB to drop
> in on top of the 6TB (3x 2TB) to fill the four drive bays and reimage with
> FreeNAS and ZFS. I was very disappointed with that. I *suppose* I could put
> that third-party controller back in there. Eh, whatever.
> 
> EdB.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Same era. I ran demos on an XW8400 at NAB in 2007.
-Curt

  From: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Ed Booher <edboo...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 11:51 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
   
> This is like the system I call "The Beast", a XW8400. Dual quad-core 
> Xeon,
> 16 GB RAM, and the *case* my Lord that thing is massive.

Sounds like this 2007 Mac Pro.

-- Jim



   
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

This is the card that's giving me fits:
https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-mHDMI-Graphics-01G-P3-2631-KR/dp/B0085MPDJ8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8=1462549807=8-2=evga+geforce+gt+630
It was $63.74 when I bought it in Jan. 2014. They want $216.59 now!
So, yes, it's PCI-e 2.0. I'd love an old card from the junk pile - my only
requirement beyond fitting the MB is dual monitor output.

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> PCIe card? I can probably help you out with that if you want. We've got a
> bunch of formerly-high-end stuff in the junk pile at work.
> -Curt
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

This is like the system I call "The Beast", a XW8400. Dual quad-core 
Xeon,

16 GB RAM, and the *case* my Lord that thing is massive.


Sounds like this 2007 Mac Pro.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Ed Booher via Mercedes]

Mothballing? As in you can get me spare parts on the cheap cheap?

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We're mothballing any and all xw8400s and xw8600s from work, the 8600 is
> still vaugely on our list of supported systems but not for long.
> Consumer grade is garbage, workstation grade is great. HP's 3 year onsite
> support for their systems seals the deal, I can't imagine a professional
> boxing up his machine and making an appointment with the genius, but they
> do...
> -Curt
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

What Ed says.

As a certified HP Desktop and Laptop technician, I can attest to the beauty of 
their toolless cases.  You can pretty much tear the whole thing down with your 
bare hands, and it’s clearly identified how to do it (all those green tabs!)

There are all sorts of enterprise HP machines out there for cheap.  Great way 
to get a really nice case and a pretty decent machine.

Dan


>  From: Ed Booher <edboo...@gmail.com>
> To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
> 
> This is like the system I call "The Beast", a XW8400. Dual quad-core Xeon, 16 
> GB RAM, and the *case* my Lord that thing is massive. The only problem I've 
> got with this system is the PCI-E is a 1.0 standard, and isn't fully "forward 
> compatible" with the new standard. (That came out almost immediately in a 
> PCI-E 1.1 update, apparently) So new gaming video cards have quirks in the 
> system. But for straight line computing, the XW8400 is insane. The XW8400 and 
> XW8600 differ by NICs, mine has one, the XW8600 has two on board. And mine 
> uses the 5300 series Xeons while the 8600 uses the 5400 series
> I absolutely love HP Workstation toolless cases. I have four of the XW4600 
> systems. The ATX board is on a mainboard caddy. Two clips and the entire 
> thing pulls out. Drop a new mainboard on the caddy, place it back in the 
> case, brand new computer. The case is ATX compliant too, so replacing the 
> power supply is just as easy.
> As a "full disclosure" type of thing, I am an Apple shareholder, and love OS 
> X. Have a couple Macs in the house including a Mac Pro. The old school Pro 
> case was really nice, but fairly proprietary as far as ease of upgrades are 
> concerned. So the list has seen me talk about Macs too, but I can't get 
> enough HPs, collect them like Kaleb collects broken Benz.
> However, that said, the HP consumer gear is *not* the same. Not the same 
> quality, not the same grade of steel, not the same toolless features. I guess 
> what I'm trying to say, is if you are going to look toward a new computing 
> model, look to an HP Workstation. Whether older, XW Series or newer Z Series, 
> the things are just insane. Every single person that ever complains about the 
> prices of a new Mac Pro being astronomical and a new PC being Kia money has 
> never seen the new spec HP Workstations. There is a *reason* they cost more, 
> and it isn't always the name plate. 
> Since I'm this deep in the pool anyway, just played around with the 
> configuration tool for a brand new HP Z840 Workstation. Straight shoot, 
> without even ticking all the boxes, Xeon E5 22 Core, 32 GB RAM, 6TB Spinning 
> platters, AMD W2100, $11,117.00. Shoot, that's walkin' round money. Now I'm 
> just being silly, the point is, Workstation grade gear is good stuff, that 
> was very expensive, finding it from an auction or systems reseller for 
> pennies on the dollar can see you net a *nice* system with bang for the buck 
> for nearly nothing.
> Kind of like a solid, well maintained Mercedes, yeah?
> EdB.
> EdB


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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

We're mothballing any and all xw8400s and xw8600s from work, the 8600 is still 
vaugely on our list of supported systems but not for long.
Consumer grade is garbage, workstation grade is great. HP's 3 year onsite 
support for their systems seals the deal, I can't imagine a professional boxing 
up his machine and making an appointment with the genius, but they do...
-Curt

  From: Ed Booher <edboo...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 8:24 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
   
This is like the system I call "The Beast", a XW8400. Dual quad-core Xeon, 16 
GB RAM, and the *case* my Lord that thing is massive. The only problem I've got 
with this system is the PCI-E is a 1.0 standard, and isn't fully "forward 
compatible" with the new standard. (That came out almost immediately in a PCI-E 
1.1 update, apparently) So new gaming video cards have quirks in the system. 
But for straight line computing, the XW8400 is insane. The XW8400 and XW8600 
differ by NICs, mine has one, the XW8600 has two on board. And mine uses the 
5300 series Xeons while the 8600 uses the 5400 series
I absolutely love HP Workstation toolless cases. I have four of the XW4600 
systems. The ATX board is on a mainboard caddy. Two clips and the entire thing 
pulls out. Drop a new mainboard on the caddy, place it back in the case, brand 
new computer. The case is ATX compliant too, so replacing the power supply is 
just as easy.
As a "full disclosure" type of thing, I am an Apple shareholder, and love OS X. 
Have a couple Macs in the house including a Mac Pro. The old school Pro case 
was really nice, but fairly proprietary as far as ease of upgrades are 
concerned. So the list has seen me talk about Macs too, but I can't get enough 
HPs, collect them like Kaleb collects broken Benz.
However, that said, the HP consumer gear is *not* the same. Not the same 
quality, not the same grade of steel, not the same toolless features. I guess 
what I'm trying to say, is if you are going to look toward a new computing 
model, look to an HP Workstation. Whether older, XW Series or newer Z Series, 
the things are just insane. Every single person that ever complains about the 
prices of a new Mac Pro being astronomical and a new PC being Kia money has 
never seen the new spec HP Workstations. There is a *reason* they cost more, 
and it isn't always the name plate. 
Since I'm this deep in the pool anyway, just played around with the 
configuration tool for a brand new HP Z840 Workstation. Straight shoot, without 
even ticking all the boxes, Xeon E5 22 Core, 32 GB RAM, 6TB Spinning platters, 
AMD W2100, $11,117.00. Shoot, that's walkin' round money. Now I'm just being 
silly, the point is, Workstation grade gear is good stuff, that was very 
expensive, finding it from an auction or systems reseller for pennies on the 
dollar can see you net a *nice* system with bang for the buck for nearly 
nothing.
Kind of like a solid, well maintained Mercedes, yeah?
EdB.
EdB
On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Raspberry Pi 3?
Depends on what you want really. I just got an HP xw8600 for Angie's office. 
With 10GB of RAM its pretty sweet with Windows 7 or even 10. Its the same 
machine we've got at home. Ex-video production machine was top of the line in 
2009.The replacement for it was the Z800, the single processor version was the 
Z400, any would be an excellent choice for home use. The Z series are really 
quiet...
-Curt

      From: OK Don via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <Mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 2:47 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
mid 2000's.

--
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change deliv

Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

PCIe card? I can probably help you out with that if you want. We've got a bunch 
of formerly-high-end stuff in the junk pile at work.
-Curt

  From: OK Don via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 11:32 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
   
I re-loaded W10 and it ran fine until I loaded the proper (from the CD)
NVidia drivers for the dual monitor card, then it started dying again. It
run fine under Tails, but it doen't  have the full functioning video
driver. So, I'm guessing that the proper (though old) driver is killing the
video, as did the current driver which was there until I blew away the old
windows. At this point it seems to be either a new video card or another
PC. Same work either way as I had to blow away the old windows (it refused
to boot after the PC shut down during the repair process).

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I was having all kinds of similar problems at one point on my XP machine,
> it turned out to be the vid card capacitors had blown out and were working
> until under some significant load like a vid. Replaced the vid card and the
> machine worked fine thereafter for quite some time.  Kinda weird that
> capacitors would continue to sorta work even when puffed out like popcorn
> but there you go.
>
> --R
>
>
> On 5/5/16 10:21 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I had an XP box that did that.  I concluded the signal from the
>> motherboard to the power supply was telling the power supply to turn off
>> (don't recall more detail).  With the lid off and a fan blowing on the
>> motherboard it would run forever, so the cause was thermal.  That allowed
>> me to save all the data off the ward drive.
>>
>> I had no confidence in my ability to repair a multi-layer motherboard
>> (without documentation) so I found  another motherboard on the internet and
>> swapped it out.  Box ran fine from then until long after MS dropped XP.
>>
>> I expect the repair-replace tradeoff would depend on the
>> cost/availability of a motherboard and the inconvenience of learning a new
>> system.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK
>>> Don via Mercedes
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 2:47 PM
>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <Mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
>>>
>>> My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
>>> said
>>> that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
>>> installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the
>>> mother
>>> board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new
>>> one
>>> from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
>>> Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
>>> mid 2000's.
>>>
>>> --
>>> OK Don
>>>
>>> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
>>> of
>>> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>>>
>>> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
>>> who
>>> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
>>> for
>>> themselves."
>>>
>>> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> --
> --BB
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailm

Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Ed Booher via Mercedes]

This is like the system I call "The Beast", a XW8400. Dual quad-core Xeon,
16 GB RAM, and the *case* my Lord that thing is massive. The only problem
I've got with this system is the PCI-E is a 1.0 standard, and isn't fully
"forward compatible" with the new standard. (That came out almost
immediately in a PCI-E 1.1 update, apparently) So new gaming video cards
have quirks in the system. But for straight line computing, the XW8400 is
insane. The XW8400 and XW8600 differ by NICs, mine has one, the XW8600 has
two on board. And mine uses the 5300 series Xeons while the 8600 uses the
5400 series

I absolutely love HP Workstation toolless cases. I have four of the XW4600
systems. The ATX board is on a mainboard caddy. Two clips and the entire
thing pulls out. Drop a new mainboard on the caddy, place it back in the
case, brand new computer. The case is ATX compliant too, so replacing the
power supply is just as easy.

As a "full disclosure" type of thing, I am an Apple shareholder, and love
OS X. Have a couple Macs in the house including a Mac Pro. The old school
Pro case was really nice, but fairly proprietary as far as ease of upgrades
are concerned. So the list has seen me talk about Macs too, but I can't get
enough HPs, collect them like Kaleb collects broken Benz.

However, that said, the HP consumer gear is *not* the same. Not the same
quality, not the same grade of steel, not the same toolless features. I
guess what I'm trying to say, is if you are going to look toward a new
computing model, look to an HP Workstation. Whether older, XW Series or
newer Z Series, the things are just insane. Every single person that ever
complains about the prices of a new Mac Pro being astronomical and a new PC
being Kia money has never seen the new spec HP Workstations. There is a
*reason* they cost more, and it isn't always the name plate.

Since I'm this deep in the pool anyway, just played around with the
configuration tool for a brand new HP Z840 Workstation. Straight shoot,
without even ticking all the boxes, Xeon E5 22 Core, 32 GB RAM, 6TB
Spinning platters, AMD W2100, $11,117.00. Shoot, that's walkin' round
money. Now I'm just being silly, the point is, Workstation grade gear is
good stuff, that was very expensive, finding it from an auction or systems
reseller for pennies on the dollar can see you net a *nice* system with
bang for the buck for nearly nothing.

Kind of like a solid, well maintained Mercedes, yeah?

EdB.

EdB

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Raspberry Pi 3?
> Depends on what you want really. I just got an HP xw8600 for Angie's
> office. With 10GB of RAM its pretty sweet with Windows 7 or even 10. Its
> the same machine we've got at home. Ex-video production machine was top of
> the line in 2009.The replacement for it was the Z800, the single processor
> version was the Z400, any would be an excellent choice for home use. The Z
> series are really quiet...
> -Curt
>
>   From: OK Don via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <Mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 2:47 PM
>  Subject: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
>
> My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
> said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
> installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
> board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
> from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
> Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
> mid 2000's.
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
"Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler*
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Ed Booher via Mercedes]

Before you get fully to the new build point, take a air canister and a
horse hair / toothbrush to the DIMM sockets, make sure there is no dust on
the connectors? About once every six months to a year, I have to
disassemble my systems and fully clean them. (My dogs bring in *a lot* of
dirt, am always vacuuming)

EdB

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:47 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
> said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
> installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
> board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
> from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
> Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
> mid 2000's.
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
"Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler*
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I bought one from Xi computer. Put a water cooling rig in it when I added a
tesla gpu, rigged it in series. No neon, but  somehow the green antifreeze
in the tigon tunes lights up and looks pretty flashy through the clear side
panel.

I agree it will be cutting edge for maybe six months, but a good machine
for a long time afterward.
On May 6, 2016 12:24 AM, "clay via Mercedes"  wrote:

> Hire yourself a wet behind the ears kid to build up a fresh PC.  My #1 boy
> invested far too much in his rig but it was all cutting edge, for about 23
> seconds.  He used Corsair for the support bits and ASUS Logic board and
> GPU.  Core i7, 32 Gb ram, SSD boot and RAID ... bunch of numbers for the
> complex of spinning things.  Massive fans that make it sound like a B-29
> launching from aircraft carrier when it gets too hot.  No neon.
>
> clay
>
> On May 5, 2016, at 11:47 AM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>
> > My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
> > said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
> > installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the
> mother
> > board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new
> one
> > from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
> > Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
> > mid 2000's.
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
> of
> > our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> >
> > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
> who
> > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> > for themselves."
> >
> > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[clay via Mercedes]

Hire yourself a wet behind the ears kid to build up a fresh PC.  My #1 boy 
invested far too much in his rig but it was all cutting edge, for about 23 
seconds.  He used Corsair for the support bits and ASUS Logic board and GPU.  
Core i7, 32 Gb ram, SSD boot and RAID ... bunch of numbers for the complex of 
spinning things.  Massive fans that make it sound like a B-29 launching from 
aircraft carrier when it gets too hot.  No neon.

clay

On May 5, 2016, at 11:47 AM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

> My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
> said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
> installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
> board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
> from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
> Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
> mid 2000's.
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I re-loaded W10 and it ran fine until I loaded the proper (from the CD)
NVidia drivers for the dual monitor card, then it started dying again. It
run fine under Tails, but it doen't  have the full functioning video
driver. So, I'm guessing that the proper (though old) driver is killing the
video, as did the current driver which was there until I blew away the old
windows. At this point it seems to be either a new video card or another
PC. Same work either way as I had to blow away the old windows (it refused
to boot after the PC shut down during the repair process).

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I was having all kinds of similar problems at one point on my XP machine,
> it turned out to be the vid card capacitors had blown out and were working
> until under some significant load like a vid. Replaced the vid card and the
> machine worked fine thereafter for quite some time.  Kinda weird that
> capacitors would continue to sorta work even when puffed out like popcorn
> but there you go.
>
> --R
>
>
> On 5/5/16 10:21 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I had an XP box that did that.  I concluded the signal from the
>> motherboard to the power supply was telling the power supply to turn off
>> (don't recall more detail).  With the lid off and a fan blowing on the
>> motherboard it would run forever, so the cause was thermal.  That allowed
>> me to save all the data off the ward drive.
>>
>> I had no confidence in my ability to repair a multi-layer motherboard
>> (without documentation) so I found  another motherboard on the internet and
>> swapped it out.  Box ran fine from then until long after MS dropped XP.
>>
>> I expect the repair-replace tradeoff would depend on the
>> cost/availability of a motherboard and the inconvenience of learning a new
>> system.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK
>>> Don via Mercedes
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 2:47 PM
>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <Mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
>>>
>>> My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
>>> said
>>> that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
>>> installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the
>>> mother
>>> board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new
>>> one
>>> from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
>>> Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
>>> mid 2000's.
>>>
>>> --
>>> OK Don
>>>
>>> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
>>> of
>>> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>>>
>>> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
>>> who
>>> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
>>> for
>>> themselves."
>>>
>>> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> --
> --BB
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I was having all kinds of similar problems at one point on my XP 
machine, it turned out to be the vid card capacitors had blown out and 
were working until under some significant load like a vid. Replaced the 
vid card and the machine worked fine thereafter for quite some time.  
Kinda weird that capacitors would continue to sorta work even when 
puffed out like popcorn but there you go.


--R

On 5/5/16 10:21 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

I had an XP box that did that.  I concluded the signal from the motherboard to 
the power supply was telling the power supply to turn off (don't recall more 
detail).  With the lid off and a fan blowing on the motherboard it would run 
forever, so the cause was thermal.  That allowed me to save all the data off 
the ward drive.

I had no confidence in my ability to repair a multi-layer motherboard (without 
documentation) so I found  another motherboard on the internet and swapped it 
out.  Box ran fine from then until long after MS dropped XP.

I expect the repair-replace tradeoff would depend on the cost/availability of a 
motherboard and the inconvenience of learning a new system.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK
Don via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 2:47 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <Mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
Subject: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics said
that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
mid 2000's.

--
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for
themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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--
--BB


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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I had an XP box that did that.  I concluded the signal from the motherboard to 
the power supply was telling the power supply to turn off (don't recall more 
detail).  With the lid off and a fan blowing on the motherboard it would run 
forever, so the cause was thermal.  That allowed me to save all the data off 
the ward drive.

I had no confidence in my ability to repair a multi-layer motherboard (without 
documentation) so I found  another motherboard on the internet and swapped it 
out.  Box ran fine from then until long after MS dropped XP.  

I expect the repair-replace tradeoff would depend on the cost/availability of a 
motherboard and the inconvenience of learning a new system.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK
> Don via Mercedes
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 2:47 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <Mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
> 
> My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics said
> that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
> installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
> board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
> from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
> Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
> mid 2000's.
> 
> --
> OK Don
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for
> themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I'm tending to agree with this philosophy - - go back to enterprise boxes.

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Tim Crone via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> > Just go to newegg and sign up for daily specials, they offer components
> for
> > cheepcheep pretty often.  you can get a new mother board and chip to pop
> in
> > the box, you might be able to reuse your memory sticks and everything
> else
> > just pretty much plugs into it. You might need a new power supply too
> > depending on what your old one puts out or what kind of connectors it
> has.
>
> I was going to build one recently, but ended up getting an off-lease
> Dell server and adding hard drives and memory.  Ultimately it was
> cheaper and quieter than anything I could have put together myself.
> Also it came with a Windows license though I recently installed ESX
> over it.
>
> You can get a new stripped T110 for $200-ish, but I'm with Curt that
> the older enterprise machines are the best bang for the buck when 2-3
> years old.
>
> Best,
> Tim
> does not presently work for Dell
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Tim Crone via Mercedes]

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
 wrote:
> Just go to newegg and sign up for daily specials, they offer components for
> cheepcheep pretty often.  you can get a new mother board and chip to pop in
> the box, you might be able to reuse your memory sticks and everything else
> just pretty much plugs into it. You might need a new power supply too
> depending on what your old one puts out or what kind of connectors it has.

I was going to build one recently, but ended up getting an off-lease
Dell server and adding hard drives and memory.  Ultimately it was
cheaper and quieter than anything I could have put together myself.
Also it came with a Windows license though I recently installed ESX
over it.

You can get a new stripped T110 for $200-ish, but I'm with Curt that
the older enterprise machines are the best bang for the buck when 2-3
years old.

Best,
Tim
does not presently work for Dell

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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I forgot the use - this is my dual monitor, Adobe Lightroom image
processing, storage, etc. machine. No, the Pi 3 won't cut it.
I ran the diagnostics again with the new RAM - all was good. then booted it
to W10, and after 5 minutes or so it just went black - again. Booted, and
restored to the point before the last update. Still no joy.
Booted it on a Linux live USB stick and it ran for 30 minutes. So, I doubt
that it is hardware.

I'm doing the repair re-install of W10 now - we'll see how that goes before
condemning the hardware.


On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Raspberry Pi 3?
> Depends on what you want really. I just got an HP xw8600 for Angie's
> office. With 10GB of RAM its pretty sweet with Windows 7 or even 10. Its
> the same machine we've got at home. Ex-video production machine was top of
> the line in 2009.The replacement for it was the Z800, the single processor
> version was the Z400, any would be an excellent choice for home use. The Z
> series are really quiet...
> -Curt
>
>   From: OK Don via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <Mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 2:47 PM
>  Subject: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
>
> My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
> said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
> installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
> board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
> from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
> Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
> mid 2000's.
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Raspberry Pi 3?
Depends on what you want really. I just got an HP xw8600 for Angie's office. 
With 10GB of RAM its pretty sweet with Windows 7 or even 10. Its the same 
machine we've got at home. Ex-video production machine was top of the line in 
2009.The replacement for it was the Z800, the single processor version was the 
Z400, any would be an excellent choice for home use. The Z series are really 
quiet...
-Curt

  From: OK Don via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <Mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 2:47 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?
   
My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
mid 2000's.

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

+1

Sent from my iPad

> On May 5, 2016, at 3:01 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just go to newegg and sign up for daily specials, they offer components for 
> cheepcheep pretty often.  you can get a new mother board and chip to pop in 
> the box, you might be able to reuse your memory sticks and everything else 
> just pretty much plugs into it. You might need a new power supply too 
> depending on what your old one puts out or what kind of connectors it has.
> 
> The new boards will come with a CD with drivers, you really won't have to 
> reinstall your OS unless you want to, so it should be pretty much the same as 
> the one you have now but likely faster.
> 
> --R
> 
>> On 5/5/16 2:47 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>> My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
>> said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
>> installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
>> board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
>> from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
>> Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
>> mid 2000's.
> 
> -- 
> --BB
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Just go to newegg and sign up for daily specials, they offer components 
for cheepcheep pretty often.  you can get a new mother board and chip to 
pop in the box, you might be able to reuse your memory sticks and 
everything else just pretty much plugs into it. You might need a new 
power supply too depending on what your old one puts out or what kind of 
connectors it has.


The new boards will come with a CD with drivers, you really won't have 
to reinstall your OS unless you want to, so it should be pretty much the 
same as the one you have now but likely faster.


--R

On 5/5/16 2:47 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
mid 2000's.



--
--BB


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[MBZ] OT - built a PC from scratch recently?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

My 8 year old HP is now spontaeously turning it's  self off. Diagnostics
said that the memory failed the test, so I bought new Kingston DIMMs and
installed them. It's still doing the same thing, so I'm thinking the mother
board has a bad chip or something. I'm thinking I'd rather build a new one
from scratch to avoid all the bloatware that comes iwth a new PC.
Any recommendations for hardware these days? I haven't bought such since
mid 2000's.

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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