Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Citgo is the Venezuela state oil company.

Dan


> On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:43 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On October 15, 2016 at 4:05 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> U Exxon. isn't that the chain that's owned by Chavez group?
>> 
>> From the now failed socialist state of Venezuela?
> 
> I thought that was Citgo.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 15, 2016 at 4:05 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> U Exxon. isn't that the chain that's owned by Chavez group?
> 
> From the now failed socialist state of Venezuela?

I thought that was Citgo.

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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Exxon is my shorthand fore ANY and ALL service stations

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 4:05 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> U Exxon. isn't that the chain that's owned by Chavez group?
>
> From the now failed socialist state of Venezuela?
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Only when charging stations that offer 10 minute "fill ups" can be found
> at
> > every Exxon will electric cars go mainstream.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Mao sez:
> > >
> > > "So... someday, something other than outlawed fossil-fuel
> > > internal-combustion or EV will be used for transportation, perhaps."
> > >
> > > Yup!  It is called a horse!
> > >
> > > Mountain Man via Mercedes 
> > >> October 15, 2016 at 2:25 PM
> > >> Kaleb wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Someday, an EV that has similar historic character of our W123 today -
> > >> that might be nice, perhaps.  EV works in a city, but will not have
> > >> the flexibility that fossil-fuel internal-combustion transportation
> > >> provides.  So... someday, something other than outlawed fossil-fuel
> > >> internal-combustion or EV will be used for transportation, perhaps.
> > >> Or not.  We can deal with all things, correct?  Is this better?
> > >> mao
> > >>
> > >> mao
> > >>
> > >
> > > ___
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[G Mann via Mercedes]

U Exxon. isn't that the chain that's owned by Chavez group?

>From the now failed socialist state of Venezuela?

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Only when charging stations that offer 10 minute "fill ups" can be found at
> every Exxon will electric cars go mainstream.
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Mao sez:
> >
> > "So... someday, something other than outlawed fossil-fuel
> > internal-combustion or EV will be used for transportation, perhaps."
> >
> > Yup!  It is called a horse!
> >
> > Mountain Man via Mercedes 
> >> October 15, 2016 at 2:25 PM
> >> Kaleb wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean
> >>>
> >>
> >> Someday, an EV that has similar historic character of our W123 today -
> >> that might be nice, perhaps.  EV works in a city, but will not have
> >> the flexibility that fossil-fuel internal-combustion transportation
> >> provides.  So... someday, something other than outlawed fossil-fuel
> >> internal-combustion or EV will be used for transportation, perhaps.
> >> Or not.  We can deal with all things, correct?  Is this better?
> >> mao
> >>
> >> mao
> >>
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Only when charging stations that offer 10 minute "fill ups" can be found at
every Exxon will electric cars go mainstream.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Mao sez:
>
> "So... someday, something other than outlawed fossil-fuel
> internal-combustion or EV will be used for transportation, perhaps."
>
> Yup!  It is called a horse!
>
> Mountain Man via Mercedes 
>> October 15, 2016 at 2:25 PM
>> Kaleb wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean
>>>
>>
>> Someday, an EV that has similar historic character of our W123 today -
>> that might be nice, perhaps.  EV works in a city, but will not have
>> the flexibility that fossil-fuel internal-combustion transportation
>> provides.  So... someday, something other than outlawed fossil-fuel
>> internal-combustion or EV will be used for transportation, perhaps.
>> Or not.  We can deal with all things, correct?  Is this better?
>> mao
>>
>> mao
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Mao sez:

"So... someday, something other than outlawed fossil-fuel
internal-combustion or EV will be used for transportation, perhaps."

Yup!  It is called a horse!


Mountain Man via Mercedes 
October 15, 2016 at 2:25 PM
Kaleb wrote:

I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean


Someday, an EV that has similar historic character of our W123 today -
that might be nice, perhaps.  EV works in a city, but will not have
the flexibility that fossil-fuel internal-combustion transportation
provides.  So... someday, something other than outlawed fossil-fuel
internal-combustion or EV will be used for transportation, perhaps.
Or not.  We can deal with all things, correct?  Is this better?
mao

mao


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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Kaleb wrote:
> I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean

Someday, an EV that has similar historic character of our W123 today -
that might be nice, perhaps.  EV works in a city, but will not have
the flexibility that fossil-fuel internal-combustion transportation
provides.  So... someday, something other than outlawed fossil-fuel
internal-combustion or EV will be used for transportation, perhaps.
Or not.  We can deal with all things, correct?  Is this better?
mao

mao wrote something Kaleb did not understand:
>> EV makes sense for a while.  Gimme a W123 of EV - we can have
>> transport for a few years.  After that? - we can work on that.  We
>> cannot deal with constriction of innovation or invention.  Innovation
>> and invention are totally controlled today.  EV is okay.  Today's
>> activities is not a path to future innovation and invention.  There
>> are other ideas out there.

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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Karl wrote:
>> I think the article is not far from the mark, esp if prices come down. For
>> city dwellers they make a lot of sense.
> 
> EV makes sense for a while.  Gimme a W123 of EV - we can have
> transport for a few years.  After that? - we can work on that.  We
> cannot deal with constriction of innovation or invention.  Innovation
> and invention are totally controlled today.  EV is okay.  Today's
> activities is not a path to future innovation and invention.  There
> are other ideas out there.
> mao
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Karl wrote:
> I think the article is not far from the mark, esp if prices come down. For
> city dwellers they make a lot of sense.

EV makes sense for a while.  Gimme a W123 of EV - we can have
transport for a few years.  After that? - we can work on that.  We
cannot deal with constriction of innovation or invention.  Innovation
and invention are totally controlled today.  EV is okay.  Today's
activities is not a path to future innovation and invention.  There
are other ideas out there.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 14, 2016 at 9:12 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I think the article is not far from the mark, esp if prices come down. For
> city dwellers they make a lot of sense. They run much cheaper. But I expect
> them to be taxed more in the future, by either wheel taxes or mileage
> taxes, so that will offset the current operating expense difference.

The west coast solution seems to be a road tax on miles driven. Problem is some
people like me don't want their car usage tracked by government. 

The Michigan approach is to add $100 to the annual plate fee for EVs because
they don't have gas taxes, and $30 to hybrids because they're presumed to pay
less gas tax.

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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 13, 2016 at 10:33 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Ayyyuuup!
> 
> Any good blizzard, hurricane, or tornado leaves yer leaf without 
> electrons Unless you pull a gasoline or Diesel powered generator on 
> a trailer behind your car the "uses no petroleum"

When the grid's down, the gas pumps are down too, so with EV, gasser, or diesel,
you're out of luck once your stockpiles are gone. Diesel can be stored for years
in bulk 'fuel oil' tanks, so you can have a pretty big stockpile if you're
willing to pay for it. 

You can stretch your gasoline stockpiles a long way if you make your own ethanol
and just use gas for starting, or you can be self-sufficient with Bio-D or
electric. 

After seeing this EV push trailer, I had an idea:
http://insideevs.com/explained-mitsubishi-miev-range-extender-story/

My idea after seeing that is to get a Ninja 250 and one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/TMS-%25MotorcycleStand-SC1307A-Motorcycle-Trailer-Carrier/dp/B005XDM0XO

You can push the EV around with the motorcycle, or you can park the EV and ride
the motorcycle. Just have to make sure the bike's radiator gets enough airflow
when riding behind the EV. 



Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I think the article is not far from the mark, esp if prices come down. For
city dwellers they make a lot of sense. They run much cheaper. But I expect
them to be taxed more in the future, by either wheel taxes or mileage
taxes, so that will offset the current operating expense difference.

As for power draw, it is like turning your dryer on. The Tesla fast charger
can draw 100A but the rest draw 40.

On Oct 13, 2016 7:23 PM, "G Mann via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Again... Nice Fantasy  Now for some logic, based on reality and current
> events.
>
> Step outside and look up at the power poles in your neighborhood. Take
> notice of their condition, and the condition of the power lines strung
> between them. These are the basis for all the wonderful electricity this
> "new world" is going to run on... Go look up when your local power grid was
> built, and when was the last time it was upgraded with all new equipment...
> again.. the "source of delivery" for all these wonderful electronic "wave
> of the future" items that will run your life and make it effortless...
>
> Fact.. most components of power grids in America are approaching 100 years
> old.. Every time there is wind, or rain, or snow, or ice.. what leaves you
> hungry and cold first?  Electricity off? How do you charge your electric
> car.. run your computer to do "at home work"? Online shopping?
>
> Yeah.. Ouch
>
> Loads of big dreamers building new "stuff" without doing anything to really
> ensure solid supply to support it...
>
> Primitive happens fast... ie... recent hot showers and dry basements with
> storm on East coast...
>
> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > You can have my diesel car when you pull the steering wheel  from my cold
> > dead hands. Apologies to  2nd amendment folks.
> >
> > Dwight Giles Jr.
> > 1982 300CD
> > 1990 300D
> > Wickford RI
> >
> > On Oct 13, 2016 1:24 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Two-thirds of cars could be electric by 2030Published: Thursday,
> October
> > > 13, 2016
> > >
> > > Falling costs and rising environmental regulation could mean that a
> > > majority of cars will be electric in 2030.
> > >
> > > A report from McKinsey & Co. and Bloomberg New Energy Finance concludes
> > > that in the next 14 years, more than half of all cars could be powered
> by
> > > electricity. This can be largely attributed to lower costs.
> > >
> > > Governments trying to meet environmental targets are introducing
> > subsidies
> > > and tax breaks that help boost margins. Moreover, technology costs are
> > also
> > > plunging — the price of lithium-ion battery packs, for instance, fell
> by
> > > nearly two-thirds in 2015.
> > >
> > > "In densely populated, high-income cities like London and Singapore ...
> > > electric vehicles could represent as much as 60 percent of all vehicles
> > on
> > > the road by 2030, the result of low-emission zones, consumer interest
> and
> > > favorable economics," the report states.
> > >
> > > The growth of electric vehicles could create broader challenges for the
> > > automotive sector, according to the report. It emphasizes the
> automotive
> > > sector's need to adapt to new market conditions, stating that the
> > industry
> > > might need to "consider moving from using a pure product-ownership
> model
> > > toward providing a range of transportation services" (Nina Chestney,
> > > Reuters
> > > ,
> > Oct.
> > > 11). *— KB*
> > > ___
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Ayyyuuup!

Any good blizzard, hurricane, or tornado leaves yer leaf without 
electrons Unless you pull a gasoline or Diesel powered generator on 
a trailer behind your car the "uses no petroleum"



G Mann via Mercedes 
October 13, 2016 at 9:23 PM
Again... Nice Fantasy  Now for some logic, based on reality and 
current

events.

Step outside and look up at the power poles in your neighborhood. Take
notice of their condition, and the condition of the power lines strung
between them. These are the basis for all the wonderful electricity this
"new world" is going to run on... Go look up when your local power 
grid was
built, and when was the last time it was upgraded with all new 
equipment...

again.. the "source of delivery" for all these wonderful electronic "wave
of the future" items that will run your life and make it effortless...

Fact.. most components of power grids in America are approaching 100 years
old.. Every time there is wind, or rain, or snow, or ice.. what leaves you
hungry and cold first? Electricity off? How do you charge your electric
car.. run your computer to do "at home work"? Online shopping?

Yeah.. Ouch

Loads of big dreamers building new "stuff" without doing anything to 
really

ensure solid supply to support it...

Primitive happens fast... ie... recent hot showers and dry basements with
storm on East coast...

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
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Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
October 13, 2016 at 8:46 PM
You can have my diesel car when you pull the steering wheel from my cold
dead hands. Apologies to 2nd amendment folks.

Dwight Giles Jr.
1982 300CD
1990 300D
Wickford RI

On Oct 13, 2016 1:24 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
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Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
October 13, 2016 at 12:24 PM
Two-thirds of cars could be electric by 2030Published: Thursday, October
13, 2016

Falling costs and rising environmental regulation could mean that a
majority of cars will be electric in 2030.

A report from McKinsey & Co. and Bloomberg New Energy Finance concludes
that in the next 14 years, more than half of all cars could be powered by
electricity. This can be largely attributed to lower costs.

Governments trying to meet environmental targets are introducing subsidies
and tax breaks that help boost margins. Moreover, technology costs are 
also

plunging — the price of lithium-ion battery packs, for instance, fell by
nearly two-thirds in 2015.

"In densely populated, high-income cities like London and Singapore ...
electric vehicles could represent as much as 60 percent of all vehicles on
the road by 2030, the result of low-emission zones, consumer interest and
favorable economics," the report states.

The growth of electric vehicles could create broader challenges for the
automotive sector, according to the report. It emphasizes the automotive
sector's need to adapt to new market conditions, stating that the industry
might need to "consider moving from using a pure product-ownership model
toward providing a range of transportation services" (Nina Chestney, 
Reuters

, Oct.
11). *— KB*
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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Again... Nice Fantasy  Now for some logic, based on reality and current
events.

Step outside and look up at the power poles in your neighborhood. Take
notice of their condition, and the condition of the power lines strung
between them. These are the basis for all the wonderful electricity this
"new world" is going to run on... Go look up when your local power grid was
built, and when was the last time it was upgraded with all new equipment...
again.. the "source of delivery" for all these wonderful electronic "wave
of the future" items that will run your life and make it effortless...

Fact.. most components of power grids in America are approaching 100 years
old.. Every time there is wind, or rain, or snow, or ice.. what leaves you
hungry and cold first?  Electricity off? How do you charge your electric
car.. run your computer to do "at home work"? Online shopping?

Yeah.. Ouch

Loads of big dreamers building new "stuff" without doing anything to really
ensure solid supply to support it...

Primitive happens fast... ie... recent hot showers and dry basements with
storm on East coast...

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You can have my diesel car when you pull the steering wheel  from my cold
> dead hands. Apologies to  2nd amendment folks.
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> 1982 300CD
> 1990 300D
> Wickford RI
>
> On Oct 13, 2016 1:24 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Two-thirds of cars could be electric by 2030Published: Thursday, October
> > 13, 2016
> >
> > Falling costs and rising environmental regulation could mean that a
> > majority of cars will be electric in 2030.
> >
> > A report from McKinsey & Co. and Bloomberg New Energy Finance concludes
> > that in the next 14 years, more than half of all cars could be powered by
> > electricity. This can be largely attributed to lower costs.
> >
> > Governments trying to meet environmental targets are introducing
> subsidies
> > and tax breaks that help boost margins. Moreover, technology costs are
> also
> > plunging — the price of lithium-ion battery packs, for instance, fell by
> > nearly two-thirds in 2015.
> >
> > "In densely populated, high-income cities like London and Singapore ...
> > electric vehicles could represent as much as 60 percent of all vehicles
> on
> > the road by 2030, the result of low-emission zones, consumer interest and
> > favorable economics," the report states.
> >
> > The growth of electric vehicles could create broader challenges for the
> > automotive sector, according to the report. It emphasizes the automotive
> > sector's need to adapt to new market conditions, stating that the
> industry
> > might need to "consider moving from using a pure product-ownership model
> > toward providing a range of transportation services" (Nina Chestney,
> > Reuters
> > ,
> Oct.
> > 11). *— KB*
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

You can have my diesel car when you pull the steering wheel  from my cold
dead hands. Apologies to  2nd amendment folks.

Dwight Giles Jr.
1982 300CD
1990 300D
Wickford RI

On Oct 13, 2016 1:24 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Two-thirds of cars could be electric by 2030Published: Thursday, October
> 13, 2016
>
> Falling costs and rising environmental regulation could mean that a
> majority of cars will be electric in 2030.
>
> A report from McKinsey & Co. and Bloomberg New Energy Finance concludes
> that in the next 14 years, more than half of all cars could be powered by
> electricity. This can be largely attributed to lower costs.
>
> Governments trying to meet environmental targets are introducing subsidies
> and tax breaks that help boost margins. Moreover, technology costs are also
> plunging — the price of lithium-ion battery packs, for instance, fell by
> nearly two-thirds in 2015.
>
> "In densely populated, high-income cities like London and Singapore ...
> electric vehicles could represent as much as 60 percent of all vehicles on
> the road by 2030, the result of low-emission zones, consumer interest and
> favorable economics," the report states.
>
> The growth of electric vehicles could create broader challenges for the
> automotive sector, according to the report. It emphasizes the automotive
> sector's need to adapt to new market conditions, stating that the industry
> might need to "consider moving from using a pure product-ownership model
> toward providing a range of transportation services" (Nina Chestney,
> Reuters
> , Oct.
> 11). *— KB*
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Re: [MBZ] Bad news for diesel lovers

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Trump will kill the regulation required to support that fantasy.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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