Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
you wrote - her renter (other side of duplex) was raped that night by someone who broke in. So now she's got a gun. Same thing happened to my D-I-L - she had a 180 degree change in her idea of gun control.I wish she'd go with my son to the range so she'd know exactly how to use it - but she hasn't come far enough yet. She assumes my son will be around if something bad happens. SOmetimes people just don't seem to think straight - and refuse to listen. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT I know you probably don't think bad things happen often enough to justify carrying a gun, but there are situations where one is needed. It's not good to count on the mercy of someone who may not know the meaning of the word. Most people seem to be OK with cops being armed, but who's to say that cops are actually better _people_ than anybody else? I'd say they'd be the same (on average), except that some drawn to that position are power-mad and _not_ the sort of people who should be there at all. I have a friend who was very uncomfortable around guns. Then she heard a guy trying to break into her front door one night, and the next day she found out that her renter (other side of duplex) was raped that night by someone who broke in. So now she's got a gun... (In fact, I bought it for her, but she and her now-husband still have it several moves later, after ample time and opportunity to get rid of it. I suspect she learned something that night about the true role of police protection.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Same thing happened to my D-I-L - she had a 180 degree change in her idea of gun control... Sometimes people just don't seem to think straight - and refuse to listen. Give her a break, it takes awhile to adjust when you've been thinking you've been living in a nanny state all this time, only to find out that the nanny is really too busy making out on the couch with her fella to actually take care of you, and in fact always has been. Take a number, squirt. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
LarryT wrote: Same thing happened to my D-I-L - she had a 180 degree change in her idea of gun control.I wish she'd go with my son to the range so she'd know exactly how to use it - but she hasn't come far enough yet. She assumes my son will be around if something bad happens. Typical sheeple behavior. They want to feel protected, but they want somebody else (cops, military, husband) to do all the work for them. Problem is, too much of the voting public wants to disarm their neighbor, and then institute a police state so they can 'feel secure', with their illogical feelings taking precedence over any real form of safety. With the present Administration willing and able to take advantage of the public need to 'feel safe', we're on the highway to Hell, or at least to the Fourth Reich. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
...we're on the highway to Hell, or at least to the Fourth Reich. Let's hope it goes no better for the Fourth than it did for the Third. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Jim Cathey wrote: Let's hope it goes no better for the Fourth than it did for the Third. The Third Reich grew to control most of two continents in under 15 years. I expect the Fourth to be content with ruling 300,000,000 people on one continent. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
To put yet a different spin on things: This sounds like what the AntiChrist will do. Brian On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: Let's hope it goes no better for the Fourth than it did for the Third. The Third Reich grew to control most of two continents in under 15 years. I expect the Fourth to be content with ruling 300,000,000 people on one continent. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Well put At 08:32 PM 4/11/2008, you wrote: We also have sociopath insurance, in a variety of calibers. So far none of it has had to be used, and that's just the way I like it! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
A very very good alternative, but many of the same limitations and cautions apply (well except the possibility of an attacker to turn your own dog on you - maybe). What an ambiguous, contradictory area this is though - the protective dog. Most people want their dog to protect home, family and possessions, but almost none of them - at least among polite society - have a dog that will do so. Oh, they think they do, but they do not. Three scenarios exist as I see it: 1. You have an extraordinary and rare dog that will defend appropriately and be peaceful all other times 2. You have a good candidate for protection (owing mostly to the mental makeup of the dog) and you have paid the money and invested the time and trouble to have the dog properly protection trained (or you have the knowledge and resources to do it yourself) 3. You go through life fooling yourself thinking your dog will somehow know who is the good guy and who's the bad. You think your dog will welcome all invited guests and disallow entry by uninvited ones and will not really maul anyone - just do the job like the great dog that he/she is. A ready source of proof for this is the entertaining show It Takes a Thief on the Discovery Channel. They have been breaking into homes that have dogs lately. Every single one of the pooches has been useless. You got me going on a dog thing, Chuck. Brian On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Chuck Landenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An Alternative.. Makes having a gun moot, maybe! Don't know if the pic will get thru.. Chuck Dog For Sale Free to good home. Excellent guard dog. Owner cannot afford to feed him anymore, as there are no more thieves, murderers, or molesters left in the neighborhood for him to eat. Most of them knew him as 'Holy ShXX.'  On Apr 9, 2008, at 8:39 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
All excellent comments Tom. I'd like to add a couple of things - Those of us who choose to own a gun/s take it very seriously (the vast majority at least) and understand the implications of using a gun i.e., we don't flash it just to let others know we are armed - we don't introduce a gun into a situation unless we are wiling to use it to destroy something and know the implications that go with that. The implications are very serious - we must live with the fact that we killed another human - even if that human was a monster bent on doing harm to myself or a loved one it would still weigh on my conscience although knowing I or my wife are still alive because of those actions would ameloriate the feeling a bit. As far as a gun being taken away and used on me or one of the other pro-gun people here? I think the likely-hood is small - if I am threatened with serious injury from someone - a burglar or mugger for instance who may get you money and stab you anyway - if my gun is out it's going to be fired before someone can take it away from me. But that takes a mind set that means I am ready willing and able to fire before the bad guy gets too close. And training helps keep the gun in my hands and not someone elses. I suspect you've seen too many TV and movies portraying a person meekly pointing a gun at some serial killer who has carved up a hundred bodies and is approaching our gun toter - and keeps getting closer and closer until they can grab the gun. I will have to look up the stats (they're around here) but I think the instances of a gun beong used on the owner are rare. As Tom said, if a child gets my gun it is my fault. Criminals are not affected by gun laws. There have been numerous studies where criminals were surveyed to learn their feelings about guns. They learned the criminals do not buy guns at gun shows or gun shops - they steal them or buy them on the black market. BTW, I read recently that UK is having a problem keeping the flow of illegal guns coming in from eastern European countries - all the guns smuggled go to criminals. The criminals surveys also told that the only thing they fear is a gun in the hands of a potential victim. BTW, the people who choose to get CCWs and buy guns help those who do not have guns because when CCWs are available the criminals does not know who is armed. I wonder how many anti-gunners are willing to put a sign in their front yard saying No guns Here! We Are unarmed! Later ya'll - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT I've been watching this thread for a while and I'm not so surprised at how polarized the group is about handguns. Those who are opposed are opposed because of moral issues or fear. They believe that we (Americans) should not own guns because guns kill people or they can be stolen from the gun owner and used to kill people. Some also don't understand why someone would want to own a weapon when there is no apparent need for one in this country. They forget to come face to face with a few facts: 1) To date, a modern handgun has never killed a person in this country. People have used handguns to kill people. The handgun was just the weapon of choice and there are many other choices available. Kitchen knives, baseball bats, hammers, etc, etc. Maybe we should ban all of these weapons? 2) To date no-one has been accidentally killed by a modern handgun. Every handgun accident is the direct responsibility of the handgun owner, no exception. If you have kids or grandkids in the house and you have handguns available and a 4 year old finds one, pulls the trigger, it goes bang and kills his sister, it's 100% your fault as the gun owner. 3) Banning handguns will not take them out of the hands of the bad guys. 4) Handgun ownership can be a very rewarding hobby. Those of us who like to go out and shoot have as much fun with our handguns as someone who plays football, rides a bicycle or goes fishing. It's not all a redneck macho thing as some on this list would suggest. And thinking of fishing - we should ban fishing! How dare we present a fish with a tasty morsel of food, only to use a sharp hook to forcibly drag him out of the water by his mouth. Then we slide him on a piece of rope along with the other poor unfortunate fish where he slowly suffocates to death. By the way, I fish too. The above argument is right in line with some of the anti-handgun arguments I've read in these posts. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Hendrik - You wrote One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. After a while people forget how to resolve differences without resorting to violence. I suspect your ideas about gun violence comes from TV and the movies. Gun owners (not criminals, but law abiding citizens who happen to own guns) do not operate this way. If they did they'd all be behind bars. As I've said before, using a gun - even showing it to let others know you are armed - can stop/prevent a violent confrontation - but there's a price that comes with that act. It's entirely possible the gun owner will spend some time in jail for that simple act. And if he were to use the gun it is 99% likely he will spend at least a few days in jail - maybe longer while the cops and attorneys decide if the use of the firearm was reasonable. If they decide no, he gets a lawyer and goes to court and possibly prison. If the situation were the way you perceive it a large population of the law abiding gun owners would be in jail - using a gun when it is not called for has serious repercussions - for anyone except hardened criminals - who go from one crime scene to another - totally unaffected by gun laws. Hell, they might *kill* someone - does anyone believe they respect a gun law when they don't respect the law against murder? You wrote have a look at the sort of society you have created for yourselves? In a You mean taking the responsiblity for my family's safety? Yeah, that's an awful way to live. ;-\ As opposed to being assaulted and or murdered while waiting for the police? BTW, did you know the police do not have a duty to protect someone? according to the Supreme Ct at least. There's nothing wrong with having the ability to save the life of someone in my family - I'd feel better about shooting someone who was harming my child than wringing my hands after my child was killed and wishing the police had gotten there faster! And you want to talk them out of it? It is a fact that the police will arrive at a crime *after* it has occurred 95+% of the time. They arrive to do paperwork and ask questions, then say, we'll let you know if we find someone. You seem to have the idea that we pull our gun and shoot people who spit on our shoes? Wy to much TV Hendrik. That's typical though -- that's how most people living outside the US get their perception of what life is like here. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Hendrik Fay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. After a while people forget how to resolve differences without resorting to violence. Then violence becomes the norm and pretty soon people barricade themselves in their houses, armed to the teeth. Don't you people ever stop, take a step back and have a look at the sort of society you have created for yourselves? In a way I do feel sorry for people who have to live with a tool of death ready to go but until there is a strong mindset to change things, there will the Mexican stand off. Hendrik Tom Hargrave wrote: I've been watching this thread for a while and I'm not so surprised at how polarized the group is about handguns. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
About 30 years ago (Yes, a long time), there was a government issued paper (Sen. Dod from CT. I believe) that stated that AT THAT TIME, the majority of gun deaths in this country were a result of misuse of a gun on someone who it was bought to protect. Seemed resonable to me AT THE TIME: Suicide, act of passion, shot a child by mistake, outbursts by someone who becomes unstable, etc. I'd gladly fight for the right for competant folks to own guns, I wouldn't have one in my home. Pete -- Original message -- From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I will have to look up the stats (they're around here) but I think the instances of a gun beong used on the owner are rare. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: About 30 years ago (Yes, a long time), there was a government issued paper (Sen. Dod from CT. I believe) that stated that AT THAT TIME, the majority of gun deaths in this country were a result of misuse of a gun on someone who it was bought to protect. Was that the same Senator Dodd who asked the Library of Congress for a translation of Hitler's gun registration laws of the 1930s before authoring the Dodd Bill, which became the Gun Control Act of 1968? Let's just say his motives (and integrity) are a bit suspect. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Same Senator Dodd. I do not think his motives were suspect, he was quite verbaly publicly anti-gun. I found it very interesting on how often guns seem to harm those they were bought to protect. Pete, who actually still owns Grt G'Pa's 44 cal. CapBall. -- Original message -- From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Was that the same Senator Dodd who asked the Library of Congress for a translation of Hitler's gun registration laws of the 1930s before authoring the Dodd Bill, which became the Gun Control Act of 1968? Let's just say his motives (and integrity) are a bit suspect. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
You never pull out your gun unless you are prepared to use it. While I dont have any specifics right now, I do know that states where there is a larger percentage of people with guns, concealed etc, crime is much lower in those area. Im sure it can be looked up online by anybody interested. LarryT wrote: Hendrik - You wrote One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. After a while people forget how to resolve differences without resorting to violence. I suspect your ideas about gun violence comes from TV and the movies. Gun owners (not criminals, but law abiding citizens who happen to own guns) do not operate this way. If they did they'd all be behind bars. As I've said before, using a gun - even showing it to let others know you are armed - can stop/prevent a violent confrontation - but there's a price that comes with that act. It's entirely possible the gun owner will spend some time in jail for that simple act. And if he were to use the gun it is 99% likely he will spend at least a few days in jail - maybe longer while the cops and attorneys decide if the use of the firearm was reasonable. If they decide no, he gets a lawyer and goes to court and possibly prison. If the situation were the way you perceive it a large population of the law abiding gun owners would be in jail - using a gun when it is not called for has serious repercussions - for anyone except hardened criminals - who go from one crime scene to another - totally unaffected by gun laws. Hell, they might *kill* someone - does anyone believe they respect a gun law when they don't respect the law against murder? You wrote have a look at the sort of society you have created for yourselves? In a You mean taking the responsiblity for my family's safety? Yeah, that's an awful way to live. ;-\ As opposed to being assaulted and or murdered while waiting for the police? BTW, did you know the police do not have a duty to protect someone? according to the Supreme Ct at least. There's nothing wrong with having the ability to save the life of someone in my family - I'd feel better about shooting someone who was harming my child than wringing my hands after my child was killed and wishing the police had gotten there faster! And you want to talk them out of it? It is a fact that the police will arrive at a crime *after* it has occurred 95+% of the time. They arrive to do paperwork and ask questions, then say, we'll let you know if we find someone. You seem to have the idea that we pull our gun and shoot people who spit on our shoes? Wy to much TV Hendrik. That's typical though -- that's how most people living outside the US get their perception of what life is like here. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Hendrik Fay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. After a while people forget how to resolve differences without resorting to violence. Then violence becomes the norm and pretty soon people barricade themselves in their houses, armed to the teeth. Don't you people ever stop, take a step back and have a look at the sort of society you have created for yourselves? In a way I do feel sorry for people who have to live with a tool of death ready to go but until there is a strong mindset to change things, there will the Mexican stand off. Hendrik Tom Hargrave wrote: I've been watching this thread for a while and I'm not so surprised at how polarized the group is about handguns. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
I am not saying all of the US is like that but people on this list have indicated that they have a loaded weapon ready to go...just in case. Is that the way we should be living. I saw on TV a while back a thing about the gun culture in the US and here was trailer park granny showing her 6-8 year old grandson how to 'handle' a revolver, he was too young to even pull the trigger, so grandma had to show him how to pull the hammer back. Of course this was all staged so people outside the US would think that you lot are all gun crazy. Look you gotta face it, there is an obsession with guns in the states, which is fueled by the constitution, gangsta movies and other things. Hendrik LarryT wrote: Hendrik - You wrote One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. After a while people forget how to resolve differences without resorting to violence. I suspect your ideas about gun violence comes from TV and the movies. Gun owners (not criminals, but law abiding citizens who happen to own guns) do not operate this way. If they did they'd all be behind bars. As I've said before, using a gun - even showing it to let others know you are armed - can stop/prevent a violent confrontation - but there's a price that comes with that act. It's entirely possible the gun owner will spend some time in jail for that simple act. And if he were to use the gun it is 99% likely he will spend at least a few days in jail - maybe longer while the cops and attorneys decide if the use of the firearm was reasonable. If they decide no, he gets a lawyer and goes to court and possibly prison. If the situation were the way you perceive it a large population of the law abiding gun owners would be in jail - using a gun when it is not called for has serious repercussions - for anyone except hardened criminals - who go from one crime scene to another - totally unaffected by gun laws. Hell, they might *kill* someone - does anyone believe they respect a gun law when they don't respect the law against murder? You wrote have a look at the sort of society you have created for yourselves? In a You mean taking the responsiblity for my family's safety? Yeah, that's an awful way to live. ;-\ As opposed to being assaulted and or murdered while waiting for the police? BTW, did you know the police do not have a duty to protect someone? according to the Supreme Ct at least. There's nothing wrong with having the ability to save the life of someone in my family - I'd feel better about shooting someone who was harming my child than wringing my hands after my child was killed and wishing the police had gotten there faster! And you want to talk them out of it? It is a fact that the police will arrive at a crime *after* it has occurred 95+% of the time. They arrive to do paperwork and ask questions, then say, we'll let you know if we find someone. You seem to have the idea that we pull our gun and shoot people who spit on our shoes? Wy to much TV Hendrik. That's typical though -- that's how most people living outside the US get their perception of what life is like here. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Hey Hendrick - You know? Pretty soon I'm going to give up and go target practice. ;-) The obsession you see is with personal responsibility. True, I have a gun I keep loaded and ready to fire - if it's not in that condition it's basically a paperwieght. Yep, that Granny was undoubtedly staged - she was probably *almost* as anti-gun as the people filming that piece of drivil. ;-) I realize you can't see the need for personal protection against muggers, home invaders, and just plain mean people - you are very lucky. But that's what you get when you're the Melting Pot of the world with unregulated immigrants arriving daily - people who may have been criminals in their homeland who decided to find a better place to operate. And they end up here. We don't have a caste or class system like those that exist in some older countries so people tend to mix more completely putting have's and have-not's in close proximty - the credit problem you've probably heard about has exacerbated the problem by selling people houses they had no hope of paying for - when they default, the govt bails them out at least for a while . But it looks like home ownership is way up - but we have uneducated people barely scrapping out a living living close to people who are professionals. It creates a tension -then greed envy take over. Seeing your neighbor driving a new Mercedes Blutect ;-) when all you have is a dieing Pacer and the tension escalates. Throw in some teenagers who have little hope of staying off drugs and out of jail (or alive) and soon there are people thinking the way to the good life is to break into Mr. Jones' house and steal a bag of money. The fact that my name isn't Jones and I don't have a bag of money doen't mean some car with 3 or 4 guys thinking I'm wealthy they decide to kick my front door in and see what they can end up with. Unfortunately it happens every day but not to me. So I don't plan to be sitting here with a pillow for protection preying they won't hurt me. Like those kids and profs at Va Tech last year - if the college administration had allows those with CCWs (and had gone thru the extensive background checks) to carry their gun that guy would not have killed 32 - he may have gotten 2 or 3 - but at least they could have stopped him. I know you probably don't think bad things happen often enough to justify carrying a gun, but there are situations where one is needed. It's not good to count on the mercy of someone who may not know the meaning of the word. Have a nice weekend - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Hendrik Fay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT I am not saying all of the US is like that but people on this list have indicated that they have a loaded weapon ready to go...just in case. Is that the way we should be living. I saw on TV a while back a thing about the gun culture in the US and here was trailer park granny showing her 6-8 year old grandson how to 'handle' a revolver, he was too young to even pull the trigger, so grandma had to show him how to pull the hammer back. Of course this was all staged so people outside the US would think that you lot are all gun crazy. Look you gotta face it, there is an obsession with guns in the states, which is fueled by the constitution, gangsta movies and other things. Hendrik LarryT wrote: Hendrik - You wrote One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. After a while people forget how to resolve differences without resorting to violence. I suspect your ideas about gun violence comes from TV and the movies. Gun owners (not criminals, but law abiding citizens who happen to own guns) do not operate this way. If they did they'd all be behind bars. As I've said before, using a gun - even showing it to let others know you are armed - can stop/prevent a violent confrontation - but there's a price that comes with that act. It's entirely possible the gun owner will spend some time in jail for that simple act. And if he were to use the gun it is 99% likely he will spend at least a few days in jail - maybe longer while the cops and attorneys decide if the use of the firearm was reasonable. If they decide no, he gets a lawyer and goes to court and possibly prison. If the situation were the way you perceive it a large population of the law abiding gun owners would be in jail - using a gun when
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Hendrik Fay wrote: I am not saying all of the US is like that but people on this list have indicated that they have a loaded weapon ready to go...just in case. Is that the way we should be living. Just about every homeowner has a fire extinguisher loaded up and ready to go. Is that the way we should be living? Or how about fire insurance? Less likely to be useful than the gun, and more expensive. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
I know you probably don't think bad things happen often enough to justify carrying a gun, but there are situations where one is needed. It's not good to count on the mercy of someone who may not know the meaning of the word. Most people seem to be OK with cops being armed, but who's to say that cops are actually better _people_ than anybody else? I'd say they'd be the same (on average), except that some drawn to that position are power-mad and _not_ the sort of people who should be there at all. I have a friend who was very uncomfortable around guns. Then she heard a guy trying to break into her front door one night, and the next day she found out that her renter (other side of duplex) was raped that night by someone who broke in. So now she's got a gun... (In fact, I bought it for her, but she and her now-husband still have it several moves later, after ample time and opportunity to get rid of it. I suspect she learned something that night about the true role of police protection.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Just about every homeowner has a fire extinguisher loaded up and ready to go. Is that the way we should be living? Or how about fire insurance? Less likely to be useful than the gun, and more expensive. I don't approve of fire. Obviously it will go away and leave me alone, so I needn't be prepared! (Actually, I have _two_ extinguishers hanging on the walls, more in the garage and in the trunks of the active cars, and fire insurance. We also have sociopath insurance, in a variety of calibers. So far none of it has had to be used, and that's just the way I like it!) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sociopath insurance Well put. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
You inadvertently hit the nail on the head -- around here the likelihood of being able to settle an argument with diplomacy is impossible if the Mexican you're standing off with does not Habla Englais. They do understand the sound of a racking Mossberg or the language spoken by Messrs. Smith and Wesson. And unfortunately this society has come to be created but many do not want it to change -- too much of their base of support is like that. --R Hendrik Fay wrote: One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. After a while people forget how to resolve differences without resorting to violence. Then violence becomes the norm and pretty soon people barricade themselves in their houses, armed to the teeth. Don't you people ever stop, take a step back and have a look at the sort of society you have created for yourselves? In a way I do feel sorry for people who have to live with a tool of death ready to go but until there is a strong mindset to change things, there will the Mexican stand off. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
An Alternative.. Makes having a gun moot, maybe! Don't know if the pic will get thru.. Chuck Dog For Sale Free to good home. Excellent guard dog. Owner cannot afford to feed him anymore, as there are no more thieves, murderers, or molesters left in the neighborhood for him to eat. Most of them knew him as 'Holy ShXX.'  On Apr 9, 2008, at 8:39 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
I have owned and handled weapons (guns) since I was 12 or 13. Not one of these impersonal devices has ever even tried to kill me. Re: A gun is just as likely to kill you as protect you. It is impersonal. If there was a real threat, I'd much rather have a gun to defend myself, than not. I sold off most a long time ago, but I still have a couple I will never part with as long as I am breathing. At 09:30 PM 4/8/2008, you wrote: I'm talking about ordinary (lay) people owning guns, not law enforcement. Duh. On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: A gun is just as likely to kill you as protect you. It is impersonal. Interesting strawman, but not born out by the statistics. If what you say were true, police unions would be demanding the disarming of their members. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Well, I can agree with some of what you say here, Andrew. You touch upon one of the biggest downfalls of having a gun. Most certainly, if someone introduces a gun into a hostile situation there is the possibility of it being turned on the gun wielder. I suppose the answer here is for each gun owner to be trained or otherwise experienced in the use of that weapon, and to take it deadly seriously and be aware of the risk of the reversal. I think perhaps also it may be true what they say: If you point a gun at someone, you had better be ready and willing to shoot them. And further, you should always shoot to kill, not to wound. So the foregoing would eliminate the option of simply showing a gun *solely* as a deterrent. Being armed with a gun is not a perfect solution, but it makes sense to me. You may be surprised to learn that I have never owned a gun. I came close to buying one, but I - then and now - struggle with the gravity of it all. This is partly because I know that I need work in the area of anger management. I don't know for 100% sure that I could trust myself in all situations. And the other part of the hesitation deals with the point you raise: The possibility of the gun being taken over by an intruder - be it from my hands or from a closet. Brian On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, here goes, although I'm not sure how this ties into your yellow line analogy. A gun is just as likely to kill you as protect you. It is impersonal. Having one means that you potentially allow someone else - a family member, friend, or criminal - the means to injure or kill you, even if by accident. For example, someone breaks into your house but isn't armed. You point a gun at him and he wrestles it away and shoots you. Were you really safer because of the gun? Or even if he were armed, if he knows/sees you are armed is he more or less likely to use his weapon? This is not to say there aren't murderers and evildoers out there intent on harming you, but I just don't see a net benefit in gun ownership. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
I've been watching this thread for a while and I'm not so surprised at how polarized the group is about handguns. Those who are opposed are opposed because of moral issues or fear. They believe that we (Americans) should not own guns because guns kill people or they can be stolen from the gun owner and used to kill people. Some also don't understand why someone would want to own a weapon when there is no apparent need for one in this country. They forget to come face to face with a few facts: 1) To date, a modern handgun has never killed a person in this country. People have used handguns to kill people. The handgun was just the weapon of choice and there are many other choices available. Kitchen knives, baseball bats, hammers, etc, etc. Maybe we should ban all of these weapons? 2) To date no-one has been accidentally killed by a modern handgun. Every handgun accident is the direct responsibility of the handgun owner, no exception. If you have kids or grandkids in the house and you have handguns available and a 4 year old finds one, pulls the trigger, it goes bang and kills his sister, it's 100% your fault as the gun owner. 3) Banning handguns will not take them out of the hands of the bad guys. 4) Handgun ownership can be a very rewarding hobby. Those of us who like to go out and shoot have as much fun with our handguns as someone who plays football, rides a bicycle or goes fishing. It's not all a redneck macho thing as some on this list would suggest. And thinking of fishing - we should ban fishing! How dare we present a fish with a tasty morsel of food, only to use a sharp hook to forcibly drag him out of the water by his mouth. Then we slide him on a piece of rope along with the other poor unfortunate fish where he slowly suffocates to death. By the way, I fish too. The above argument is right in line with some of the anti-handgun arguments I've read in these posts. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zoltan Finks Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:53 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT Well, I can agree with some of what you say here, Andrew. You touch upon one of the biggest downfalls of having a gun. Most certainly, if someone introduces a gun into a hostile situation there is the possibility of it being turned on the gun wielder. I suppose the answer here is for each gun owner to be trained or otherwise experienced in the use of that weapon, and to take it deadly seriously and be aware of the risk of the reversal. I think perhaps also it may be true what they say: If you point a gun at someone, you had better be ready and willing to shoot them. And further, you should always shoot to kill, not to wound. So the foregoing would eliminate the option of simply showing a gun *solely* as a deterrent. Being armed with a gun is not a perfect solution, but it makes sense to me. You may be surprised to learn that I have never owned a gun. I came close to buying one, but I - then and now - struggle with the gravity of it all. This is partly because I know that I need work in the area of anger management. I don't know for 100% sure that I could trust myself in all situations. And the other part of the hesitation deals with the point you raise: The possibility of the gun being taken over by an intruder - be it from my hands or from a closet. Brian On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, here goes, although I'm not sure how this ties into your yellow line analogy. A gun is just as likely to kill you as protect you. It is impersonal. Having one means that you potentially allow someone else - a family member, friend, or criminal - the means to injure or kill you, even if by accident. For example, someone breaks into your house but isn't armed. You point a gun at him and he wrestles it away and shoots you. Were you really safer because of the gun? Or even if he were armed, if he knows/sees you are armed is he more or less likely to use his weapon? This is not to say there aren't murderers and evildoers out there intent on harming you, but I just don't see a net benefit in gun ownership. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 7:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 7:10 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Tom Hargrave wrote: I've been watching this thread for a while and I'm not so surprised at how polarized the group is about handguns. Those who are opposed are opposed because of moral issues or *^^IRRATIONAL^^* fear. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Thanks for the correction. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT Tom Hargrave wrote: I've been watching this thread for a while and I'm not so surprised at how polarized the group is about handguns. Those who are opposed are opposed because of moral issues or *^^IRRATIONAL^^* fear. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 7:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 7:10 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. After a while people forget how to resolve differences without resorting to violence. Then violence becomes the norm and pretty soon people barricade themselves in their houses, armed to the teeth. Don't you people ever stop, take a step back and have a look at the sort of society you have created for yourselves? In a way I do feel sorry for people who have to live with a tool of death ready to go but until there is a strong mindset to change things, there will the Mexican stand off. Hendrik Tom Hargrave wrote: I've been watching this thread for a while and I'm not so surprised at how polarized the group is about handguns. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Hendrik Fay wrote: One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. Either things are a lot different down under, or you watch too much telly. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Actually, I would argue otherwise. Armed negotiators tend to be very diplomatic. This has been the case with the US and Russia and the US and North Korea. On the other hand, out of control masses with firearms tend to be dangerous as was the case in Kosovo. But out of control masses with clubs hatchets are just as dangerous, as proved by Mogadishu. I see no difference in the two. One was genocide with AK-47's and one was genocide with hatchets clubs. Well, I see one difference - those killed with hatchets and clubs probably died a more painful death. Then there were the Kurds that were gassed in North Iraq - no guns needed there either. Genocide is genocide. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hendrik Fay Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT One of the problems I see with firearms is that it makes people lazy, they don't try and settle arguments with diplomacy but rather just go and get the gnn out and stick it in someones face. After a while people forget how to resolve differences without resorting to violence. Then violence becomes the norm and pretty soon people barricade themselves in their houses, armed to the teeth. Don't you people ever stop, take a step back and have a look at the sort of society you have created for yourselves? In a way I do feel sorry for people who have to live with a tool of death ready to go but until there is a strong mindset to change things, there will the Mexican stand off. Hendrik Tom Hargrave wrote: I've been watching this thread for a while and I'm not so surprised at how polarized the group is about handguns. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 7:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 7:10 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
In a way I do feel sorry for people who have to live with a tool of death ready to go... You mean like Oz until about 10 years ago? How did you all survive to this point? :-) I think it _is_ a shame that I feel I should have one around. (As opposed to having a purely sport item.) But I feel about the same about every other insurance policy I have to have, too. With any luck, I'll never actually need to use any of them. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
...you had better be ready and willing to shoot them. And further, you should always shoot to kill, not to wound. Speaking about the legal situation, you should always shoot to STOP, not to kill. Too bad for the scumbag that there is such a strong correlation between the two. The main difference is the coup de grace shot after he stops being a threat. Don't do that, you'll be sorry! If anybody scared me enough that I felt that I had to shoot him to stop him I don't think I'd worry too much about his likely death. And like others have stated, _if_ he dies (without your further help, _and_ if the shooting was justifiable), it's likely to be better for you in the end. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Not really, and BTW, just because you disagree there was no need to make a gratuitous personal insult. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I assume you're talking about those who don't really care if they get hurt, or those too desperate or on too many drugs? Or perhaps you just care to sound superior, Andrew? Oh, I meant to end that win an ... Brian On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 12:41 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet another dangerously defective analogy... On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:30 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, Larry. Years ago I came up with what I call The Yellow Line Theory. It's simple: What keeps drivers from crossing into oncoming traffic? They know they will be hurt as badly as those they hurt. Now apply this to guns. Brian On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your comparision of illegal drugs and illegal guns is *perfect*. People somehow expect a law that will remove all guns yet they haven't been able to do the same with drugs. Criminals ignore laws - if one of those people at VaTech had been allowed to keep their legal gun on campus the death toll might be much lower. After the extensive background check and training, those who carry a concealed weapon in Va are qualified to carry and to use a gun. Just 2 weeks before the murders the President of the college and others in Va had convinced the state legislature to *not* allow CCW holders to bring their guns on campus - and it cost 30 or more students their lives. IMO, the legislature and college administration are responsible for those deaths. Creating a defenseless victim zone only makes it easy for nut-jobs to kill people at will. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Okay, maybe my comment was a bit more personal than yours, but it's more than my disagreeing with you. It's reacting to your calling my position dangerously defective, and not offering any explanation - just getting in your quick jab and ... ing away as so often happens via this semi-anonymous communication tool that is the internet. I actually am interested in hearing why my position is bad and wrong. Brian On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 12:28 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not really, and BTW, just because you disagree there was no need to make a gratuitous personal insult. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I assume you're talking about those who don't really care if they get hurt, or those too desperate or on too many drugs? Or perhaps you just care to sound superior, Andrew? Oh, I meant to end that win an ... Brian On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 12:41 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet another dangerously defective analogy... On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:30 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, Larry. Years ago I came up with what I call The Yellow Line Theory. It's simple: What keeps drivers from crossing into oncoming traffic? They know they will be hurt as badly as those they hurt. Now apply this to guns. Brian On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your comparision of illegal drugs and illegal guns is *perfect*. People somehow expect a law that will remove all guns yet they haven't been able to do the same with drugs. Criminals ignore laws - if one of those people at VaTech had been allowed to keep their legal gun on campus the death toll might be much lower. After the extensive background check and training, those who carry a concealed weapon in Va are qualified to carry and to use a gun. Just 2 weeks before the murders the President of the college and others in Va had convinced the state legislature to *not* allow CCW holders to bring their guns on campus - and it cost 30 or more students their lives. IMO, the legislature and college administration are responsible for those deaths. Creating a defenseless victim zone only makes it easy for nut-jobs to kill people at will. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
OK, here goes, although I'm not sure how this ties into your yellow line analogy. A gun is just as likely to kill you as protect you. It is impersonal. Having one means that you potentially allow someone else - a family member, friend, or criminal - the means to injure or kill you, even if by accident. For example, someone breaks into your house but isn't armed. You point a gun at him and he wrestles it away and shoots you. Were you really safer because of the gun? Or even if he were armed, if he knows/sees you are armed is he more or less likely to use his weapon? This is not to say there aren't murderers and evildoers out there intent on harming you, but I just don't see a net benefit in gun ownership. On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, maybe my comment was a bit more personal than yours, but it's more than my disagreeing with you. It's reacting to your calling my position dangerously defective, and not offering any explanation - just getting in your quick jab and ... ing away as so often happens via this semi-anonymous communication tool that is the internet. I actually am interested in hearing why my position is bad and wrong. Brian On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 12:28 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not really, and BTW, just because you disagree there was no need to make a gratuitous personal insult. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I assume you're talking about those who don't really care if they get hurt, or those too desperate or on too many drugs? Or perhaps you just care to sound superior, Andrew? Oh, I meant to end that win an ... Brian On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 12:41 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet another dangerously defective analogy... On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:30 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, Larry. Years ago I came up with what I call The Yellow Line Theory. It's simple: What keeps drivers from crossing into oncoming traffic? They know they will be hurt as badly as those they hurt. Now apply this to guns. Brian On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your comparision of illegal drugs and illegal guns is *perfect*. People somehow expect a law that will remove all guns yet they haven't been able to do the same with drugs. Criminals ignore laws - if one of those people at VaTech had been allowed to keep their legal gun on campus the death toll might be much lower. After the extensive background check and training, those who carry a concealed weapon in Va are qualified to carry and to use a gun. Just 2 weeks before the murders the President of the college and others in Va had convinced the state legislature to *not* allow CCW holders to bring their guns on campus - and it cost 30 or more students their lives. IMO, the legislature and college administration are responsible for those deaths. Creating a defenseless victim zone only makes it easy for nut-jobs to kill people at will. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
andrew strasfogel wrote: A gun is just as likely to kill you as protect you. It is impersonal. Interesting strawman, but not born out by the statistics. If what you say were true, police unions would be demanding the disarming of their members. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
I'm talking about ordinary (lay) people owning guns, not law enforcement. Duh. On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: A gun is just as likely to kill you as protect you. It is impersonal. Interesting strawman, but not born out by the statistics. If what you say were true, police unions would be demanding the disarming of their members. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
andrew strasfogel wrote: I'm talking about ordinary (lay) people owning guns, not law enforcement. Duh. So ordinary people are just accidents waiting to happen, but law enforcement is somehow special in that regard? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
I assume you're talking about those who don't really care if they get hurt, or those too desperate or on too many drugs? Or perhaps you just care to sound superior, Andrew? Oh, I meant to end that win an ... Brian On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 12:41 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet another dangerously defective analogy... On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:30 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, Larry. Years ago I came up with what I call The Yellow Line Theory. It's simple: What keeps drivers from crossing into oncoming traffic? They know they will be hurt as badly as those they hurt. Now apply this to guns. Brian On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your comparision of illegal drugs and illegal guns is *perfect*. People somehow expect a law that will remove all guns yet they haven't been able to do the same with drugs. Criminals ignore laws - if one of those people at VaTech had been allowed to keep their legal gun on campus the death toll might be much lower. After the extensive background check and training, those who carry a concealed weapon in Va are qualified to carry and to use a gun. Just 2 weeks before the murders the President of the college and others in Va had convinced the state legislature to *not* allow CCW holders to bring their guns on campus - and it cost 30 or more students their lives. IMO, the legislature and college administration are responsible for those deaths. Creating a defenseless victim zone only makes it easy for nut-jobs to kill people at will. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Yet another dangerously defective analogy... On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:30 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, Larry. Years ago I came up with what I call The Yellow Line Theory. It's simple: What keeps drivers from crossing into oncoming traffic? They know they will be hurt as badly as those they hurt. Now apply this to guns. Brian On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your comparision of illegal drugs and illegal guns is *perfect*. People somehow expect a law that will remove all guns yet they haven't been able to do the same with drugs. Criminals ignore laws - if one of those people at VaTech had been allowed to keep their legal gun on campus the death toll might be much lower. After the extensive background check and training, those who carry a concealed weapon in Va are qualified to carry and to use a gun. Just 2 weeks before the murders the President of the college and others in Va had convinced the state legislature to *not* allow CCW holders to bring their guns on campus - and it cost 30 or more students their lives. IMO, the legislature and college administration are responsible for those deaths. Creating a defenseless victim zone only makes it easy for nut-jobs to kill people at will. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
It was writtten They know they will be hurt as badly as those they hurt. It's like MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) - what the US and USSR used for years to prevent a nuclear war - . for whatever reason it worked for 40+ years. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to apply to terrorists with nukes - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT Yet another dangerously defective analogy... On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:30 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, Larry. Years ago I came up with what I call The Yellow Line Theory. It's simple: What keeps drivers from crossing into oncoming traffic? They know they will be hurt as badly as those they hurt. Now apply this to guns. Brian On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your comparision of illegal drugs and illegal guns is *perfect*. People somehow expect a law that will remove all guns yet they haven't been able to do the same with drugs. Criminals ignore laws - if one of those people at VaTech had been allowed to keep their legal gun on campus the death toll might be much lower. After the extensive background check and training, those who carry a concealed weapon in Va are qualified to carry and to use a gun. Just 2 weeks before the murders the President of the college and others in Va had convinced the state legislature to *not* allow CCW holders to bring their guns on campus - and it cost 30 or more students their lives. IMO, the legislature and college administration are responsible for those deaths. Creating a defenseless victim zone only makes it easy for nut-jobs to kill people at will. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Agreed, Larry. Years ago I came up with what I call The Yellow Line Theory. It's simple: What keeps drivers from crossing into oncoming traffic? They know they will be hurt as badly as those they hurt. Now apply this to guns. Brian On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your comparision of illegal drugs and illegal guns is *perfect*. People somehow expect a law that will remove all guns yet they haven't been able to do the same with drugs. Criminals ignore laws - if one of those people at VaTech had been allowed to keep their legal gun on campus the death toll might be much lower. After the extensive background check and training, those who carry a concealed weapon in Va are qualified to carry and to use a gun. Just 2 weeks before the murders the President of the college and others in Va had convinced the state legislature to *not* allow CCW holders to bring their guns on campus - and it cost 30 or more students their lives. IMO, the legislature and college administration are responsible for those deaths. Creating a defenseless victim zone only makes it easy for nut-jobs to kill people at will. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns Now - Back to Guns OT OT
Your comparision of illegal drugs and illegal guns is *perfect*. People somehow expect a law that will remove all guns yet they haven't been able to do the same with drugs. Criminals ignore laws - if one of those people at VaTech had been allowed to keep their legal gun on campus the death toll might be much lower. After the extensive background check and training, those who carry a concealed weapon in Va are qualified to carry and to use a gun. Just 2 weeks before the murders the President of the college and others in Va had convinced the state legislature to *not* allow CCW holders to bring their guns on campus - and it cost 30 or more students their lives. IMO, the legislature and college administration are responsible for those deaths. Creating a defenseless victim zone only makes it easy for nut-jobs to kill people at will. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns I delivered pizzas for 17 years and wished sometimes that I could have carried a handgun. Many delivery friends have been robbed over the years, all at gunpoint I'm sure that in every case, the weasel did not show his gun registration before pointing the weapon at the delivery driver. I was robbed at a fried chicken place years ago the robber was so scared that I could hear the cylinder rattle in the gun. I was concerned that he would accidentally shoot me. My point is that the bad guys have no problem getting illegal weapons. And if the anti-handgun folks do succeed in banning handguns then the bad guys will be carrying illegal weapons that are imported via the same methods illegal drugs are imported today. The only difference will be that they will know that I don't have one to point back at them. It's kind of like the horrible College massacre that happened a while ago. Many of my friends made statements like this should not have happened, guns aren't allowed on campus and his background should have prevented any handgun sales to him. And if you think for one second that putting legal purchase of a handgun out of this person's reach would have prevented anything then you are indeed a very gullible individual. Bad guys have no problem getting illegal weapons. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Loren Faeth Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:15 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Man bites dog, was guns andrew, The pizza guy, when confronted with a gun in his face, gave the weasel (perp) the pizza and the cash. As he was walking away, the weasel, apparently decided not to leave a witness and went down the hallway to accost the delivery guy again. At this point, the driver disarmed the weasel and shot him. The only problem here was that the perp was still breathing when the cops arrived. GET your facts straight!!! This was NOT a delivery guy attempting to extort a tip! Quite the opposite. This was a kill or be killed situation, and the delivery guy did everything right, except the perp was still breathing when the cops came. At 07:14 AM 4/1/2008, you wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: Hey Gary, how would you feel if your pizza delivery guy showed off his gun when he felt, for example, that you didn't tip him enough? Same as I'd feel when a cop shows off his gun because I didn't worship him enough. Maybe we should disarm them both??? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 0.0.0/0 - Release Date: unknown 12:00 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 0.0.0/0 - Release Date: unknown 12:00 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
