Re: [MBZ] Manual 617 conversion questions
You should be able to use a flywheel from a manual OM621 (200D) or something like a M180 (220 Sb) those have the counter weight and could be balanced to the 617 flywheel. At 04:54 PM 12/22/2007, you wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:03:36 -0600 Fmiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The flywheel is the tough part. Since the OM617 is _not_ internally balanced and the OM616 _is_, the right way to do the job is to have non-balanced flywheel that compensates for the engine imbalance. Mathieu J. Cama and Craig McCluskey have both done it. I think there were others too. Maybe they can chime in with the real answer. The driveshaft isn't exactly easy, but the flywheel is difficult, if you want to do it right. If you want to do it the right way, like the factory manual says, you'll need to remove the old flywheel from the engine (AFTER marking its position) and balance the new flywheel to it (facing the same direction, but rotated 180 degrees, IIRC). I didn't do that. I had the flywheel static balanced and slapped it on the engine (after putting the proper input shaft support bearing in) and got away with it. I've driven 65 kmi since then without problems. YMMV! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Manual 617 conversion questions
You have to have a drive shaft basically custom made for it. OK Don wrote: If you drove it like you do a 240D (floored, and shift at red line), it wouldn't drop off the boost curve, and would be even MORE fun :-). There is more space between the rear of the 616 block and the firewall than there is with a 617, so I think they balanced the block on the mounts, or at least kept the weight distribution similar. I'm guessing that the manual tranny is shorter than an auto, so I don't know how it would work out. Hasn't someone on the list done this already? On Dec 21, 2007 9:35 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, if you did use a turbo 617, wouldn't it start from a stop the same as a non-turbo engine, then benefit from the increased torque/HP? Yes, but it would fall off boost at each shift. Also, emissions are very poor at those times, reputedly another reason they didn't ever make turbo stickshift models. If one was to undertake this conversion, and given a suitable donor car, wouldn't the drive shaft be the only custom modified part? Probably. And maybe not even that. The engine 'grows' towards the front, usually. -- Jim -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Manual 617 conversion questions
One from a 240D should work. Mitch Haley wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: You have to have a drive shaft basically custom made for it. What about the tranny mount crossmember? Do you need to get one from a 300D euro manny? (BTW, I'm pretty sure the euro/manny driveshaft would work a treat) And where's Craig when we need him? Did he go on a holiday trip? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Manual 617 conversion questions
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:05:48 -0500 Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: You have to have a drive shaft basically custom made for it. What about the tranny mount crossmember? Do you need to get one from a 300D euro manny? (BTW, I'm pretty sure the euro/manny driveshaft would work a treat) I _think_ the one in our car is from a manny-tranny 240D, but I'm not sure. When I did our conversion, I started with a 617 with 240D stick shift from a fellow back east. I also had access to a Euro 123.130 (naturally aspirated 617 with stick), so I may have used the cross member from that. I do recall that I used the 123.130's transmission. And where's Craig when we need him? Did he go on a holiday trip? I went to Eugene, OR, last week and am still catching up on (wading through) the several hundred list emails that were waiting for me upon my return... Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Manual 617 conversion questions
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:35:54 -0800 Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If one was to undertake this conversion, and given a suitable donor car, wouldn't the drive shaft be the only custom modified part? Probably. And maybe not even that. The engine 'grows' towards the front, usually. No, the 5th cylinder is added at the back of the engine. You do need a special driveshaft. Don't forget, if you're going from an automatic to a stick that you also need the clutch pedal and hanger, master and slave cylinders, and the piping between the cylinders. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Manual 617 conversion questions
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:03:36 -0600 Fmiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The flywheel is the tough part. Since the OM617 is _not_ internally balanced and the OM616 _is_, the right way to do the job is to have non-balanced flywheel that compensates for the engine imbalance. Mathieu J. Cama and Craig McCluskey have both done it. I think there were others too. Maybe they can chime in with the real answer. The driveshaft isn't exactly easy, but the flywheel is difficult, if you want to do it right. If you want to do it the right way, like the factory manual says, you'll need to remove the old flywheel from the engine (AFTER marking its position) and balance the new flywheel to it (facing the same direction, but rotated 180 degrees, IIRC). I didn't do that. I had the flywheel static balanced and slapped it on the engine (after putting the proper input shaft support bearing in) and got away with it. I've driven 65 kmi since then without problems. YMMV! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Manual 617 conversion questions
However, if you did use a turbo 617, wouldn't it start from a stop the same as a non-turbo engine, then benefit from the increased torque/HP? Yes, but it would fall off boost at each shift. Also, emissions are very poor at those times, reputedly another reason they didn't ever make turbo stickshift models. If one was to undertake this conversion, and given a suitable donor car, wouldn't the drive shaft be the only custom modified part? Probably. And maybe not even that. The engine 'grows' towards the front, usually. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Manual 617 conversion questions
If you drove it like you do a 240D (floored, and shift at red line), it wouldn't drop off the boost curve, and would be even MORE fun :-). There is more space between the rear of the 616 block and the firewall than there is with a 617, so I think they balanced the block on the mounts, or at least kept the weight distribution similar. I'm guessing that the manual tranny is shorter than an auto, so I don't know how it would work out. Hasn't someone on the list done this already? On Dec 21, 2007 9:35 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, if you did use a turbo 617, wouldn't it start from a stop the same as a non-turbo engine, then benefit from the increased torque/HP? Yes, but it would fall off boost at each shift. Also, emissions are very poor at those times, reputedly another reason they didn't ever make turbo stickshift models. If one was to undertake this conversion, and given a suitable donor car, wouldn't the drive shaft be the only custom modified part? Probably. And maybe not even that. The engine 'grows' towards the front, usually. -- Jim -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Manual 617 conversion questions
It seems than at Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:27:15 -0600, OK wrote: I've been thinking more about my off-hand remark when we were talking about home generators, that I should pull the 616 from the 240D (manual tranny) and use it to spin a gen head, and put a 617 in the 240D. It's been said that MB doesn't put a manual tranny behind a turbo Diesel due to the need to get the RPMs high enough to generate turbo boost, that's hard to do with solid gear ratios. However, if you did use a turbo 617, wouldn't it start from a stop the same as a non-turbo engine, then benefit from the increased torque/HP? Yup. The turbo boost would drop off at each shift, so if your point is to make the car faster, it probably won't work. But if you - like me - just would rather have a clutch and a shift lever, then go for it! If one was to undertake this conversion, and given a suitable donor car, wouldn't the drive shaft be the only custom modified part? The flywheel is the tough part. Since the OM617 is _not_ internally balanced and the OM616 _is_, the right way to do the job is to have non-balanced flywheel that compensates for the engine imbalance. Mathieu J. Cama and Craig McCluskey have both done it. I think there were others too. Maybe they can chime in with the real answer. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
