Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082698/Boy-14-kills-intruder-Michael-Henderson-gang-FOUR-men-try-break-house.html Fortunately he's smart enough not to take orders from a dispatcher when HIS life is in danger. If she told me 'do not, while I'm on the phone, do not fire that firearm I'd consider that ample reason to hang up on her so she's not on the phone with me. Mitch. Investigators released a 911 call with the teen calmly describing how he shot the intruder. ... 'Do not, while I’m on the phone, do not fire that firearm, OK?' the dispatcher says 'What if another one comes in the house, ma'am?' he asked. 'Let me know, OK, if you see anybody. I will let you know (when a deputy gets to the house),' the dispatcher responded. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:26:26 -0500 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082698/Boy-14-kills-intruder-Michael-Henderson-gang-FOUR-men-try-break-house.html Fortunately he's smart enough not to take orders from a dispatcher when HIS life is in danger. If she told me 'do not, while I'm on the phone, do not fire that firearm I'd consider that ample reason to hang up on her so she's not on the phone with me. This is the incident in Henderson, NC that we have been following for awhile now. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
I can't really speak for the cousins, thats their place but what I really need is a retired person who needs to make a little extra cash. I'm talking like $50/wk during the summer to ride out there and take a look around is all... -Curt Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 16:54:57 -0500 From: Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Message-ID: cad5mqpell6ef2x_e3-gz_a22vt8hh1-33xbwjq-qchxaqwa...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Two to 3 months back, I remember it as well. Walt On Jan 7, 2012 4:11 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Curt wrote: Of course it requires relocation to what is for most purposes the middle of nowhere. You think you know cold weather but Chicagoland is at least somewhat moderated by the lake. The week I was born Caribou never got above -20F... Cold can be dealt with, I'm sure - look at you. It sounds like your objective is unified on 3 properties? Is that caretaker work capable of supporting an individual or does the caretaker need investments to pay for incidentals? Thanks, Curt - when did you post this, I see Craig remembers it. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Curt Raymond wrote: The week I was born Caribou never got above -20F... Hah! But that was _before_ global warming!! -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
we had a news story Fri morning about a 20 something mom who was home with her baby (her husband died 12/25 of cancer) when 2 guys tried to break in - she had a double barrel 12 ga. and what looked like a 45 SAA. After talking with 911 - who said don't shoot until he's inside - she killed one and the other was soon caught by the cops and charged with 1st Degr Murder. They picked the wrong trailer to break into! LarryT 91 300D -Original Message- From: Curt Raymond Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 8:26 PM To: Diesel List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update I offered him $50 a week to look after my farm. Figure my aunt and uncle would do the same or maybe more for their place. My cousin's place is even bigger and their caretaker is a bandit... -Curt Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 17:55:07 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Message-ID: 4f06385b.5080...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed It is beginning to sound like you should head for the mountain, Mountain Man. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Mr Mann, all you have said is correct - and just as importantly - the police had no requirement to protect any one of us - they are supposed to protect the public but no one individual. A group of women in DC learned that the hard way when a couple of bad guys broke in and began to rob and rape the woman living on the ground floor - the women upstairs heard what was going on and called 911 - a police car came and circled the building - the women called 911 again - this time they didn't even bother to send a car. The guys downstairs figured out there were others in the building, found them and continued robbing and raping all the women. Eventually the nightmare ended and the women sued the DC police - it went to the Supreme Court who ruled the the police have no duty to protect individual citizens - only the duty to protect the general population. A sad state of affairs IMO. That explains why DC citizens went to the trouble to get the local DC gun laws changed. Until recently only disassembled firearms could be in the home. LarryT 91 300D. -Original Message- From: G Mann Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 9:37 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update What city has the most restrictive gun ownership laws in America? Washington DC. What city has the highest violent crime rate in America? Washington DC. And the reason is? [This ratio repeats for NYC, LA, Chicago, Detroit] Ample evidence that police don't stop crime, they only report it. Think for just a moment how successful 911 would have been if even 1% of the passengers on each hijacked airplane had properly exercised their Constitutional 2nd amendment Right to keep and bear arms. Could have two wars, trillions of dollars, thousands of lives, have been saved from being lost? Seconds do count, don't they. Survival is not a popularity contest [which may be the true meaning of PC]. On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 6:25 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: G Mann wrote: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away Like the widowed Okie teenager (I believe her husband died of old age) who called 9-1-1 when some guy started trying to break in to her home. The operator said she should put the sofa in front of the door and retreat with her baby, but she couldn't shoot him until he came inside. 21 minutes later, he forced his way in and she killed him. If the county is 50 miles wide and has 3 deputies on duty at any given time, that's probably the expected response time to a hot home invasion with firearms involved. My county is 24 miles wide and we're probably running our deputies in 50 man shifts. 21 minutes would cause public outcry here. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
All true, except the widowed mother was 18. One of many reports: http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/oklahoma-mother-shoots-kills -intruder-to-protect-baby -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Larry Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:40 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update we had a news story Fri morning about a 20 something mom who was home with her baby (her husband died 12/25 of cancer) when 2 guys tried to break in - she had a double barrel 12 ga. and what looked like a 45 SAA. After talking with 911 - who said don't shoot until he's inside - she killed one and the other was soon caught by the cops and charged with 1st Degr Murder. They picked the wrong trailer to break into! LarryT 91 300D -Original Message- From: Curt Raymond Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 8:26 PM To: Diesel List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update I offered him $50 a week to look after my farm. Figure my aunt and uncle would do the same or maybe more for their place. My cousin's place is even bigger and their caretaker is a bandit... -Curt Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 17:55:07 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Message-ID: 4f06385b.5080...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed It is beginning to sound like you should head for the mountain, Mountain Man. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Curt wrote: Of course it requires relocation to what is for most purposes the middle of nowhere. You think you know cold weather but Chicagoland is at least somewhat moderated by the lake. The week I was born Caribou never got above -20F... Cold can be dealt with, I'm sure - look at you. It sounds like your objective is unified on 3 properties? Is that caretaker work capable of supporting an individual or does the caretaker need investments to pay for incidentals? Thanks, Curt - when did you post this, I see Craig remembers it. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
On Jan 7, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Curt - when did you post this, I see Craig remembers it. After your hours got cut, but before you got laid off. Rick Sent from my ATT rotary phone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Two to 3 months back, I remember it as well. Walt On Jan 7, 2012 4:11 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Curt wrote: Of course it requires relocation to what is for most purposes the middle of nowhere. You think you know cold weather but Chicagoland is at least somewhat moderated by the lake. The week I was born Caribou never got above -20F... Cold can be dealt with, I'm sure - look at you. It sounds like your objective is unified on 3 properties? Is that caretaker work capable of supporting an individual or does the caretaker need investments to pay for incidentals? Thanks, Curt - when did you post this, I see Craig remembers it. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
I've got about 85 acres in northern Maine with a little camp (cabin for you folks from away) and it'd be nice to have somebody go out maybe once a week and just ride around the place. Cut down a tree that falls across the road once in awhile and basically just keep an eye out for miscreants. People tend to leave a place alone if it looks like somebody is around occasionally. My aunt and uncle own a house (my grandmother's house actually) in town that they are slowly rehabbing. They pretty much need the same service. My cousin's (second cousins actually) have about 200 acres with a house. Their caretaker cuts the grass, makes sure the house is all okay, plows the snow etc but he's a lowdown rat. I'd love to help run him off. Of course it requires relocation to what is for most purposes the middle of nowhere. You think you know cold weather but Chicagoland is at least somewhat moderated by the lake. The week I was born Caribou never got above -20F... -Curt Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 20:10:21 -0600 From: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Message-ID: CALk3cy7XhW3E4x5cHa2yYHjAwGqn14Z1JEuSTOjtSn=nems...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Curt wrote: I offered him $50 a week to look after my farm. Figure my aunt and uncle would do the same or maybe more for their place. My cousin's place is even bigger and their caretaker is a bandit... I don't recall this offer. Tell me more - sounds like just what I am looking for. Or, take it OFFLIST? Thanks. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
I was 'bout to volunteer 'til you said, northern Maine, snow and -20F. ;))) Wilton - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update I've got about 85 acres in northern Maine with a little camp (cabin for you folks from away) and it'd be nice to have somebody go out maybe once a week and just ride around the place. Cut down a tree that falls across the road once in awhile and basically just keep an eye out for miscreants. People tend to leave a place alone if it looks like somebody is around occasionally. My aunt and uncle own a house (my grandmother's house actually) in town that they are slowly rehabbing. They pretty much need the same service. My cousin's (second cousins actually) have about 200 acres with a house. Their caretaker cuts the grass, makes sure the house is all okay, plows the snow etc but he's a lowdown rat. I'd love to help run him off. Of course it requires relocation to what is for most purposes the middle of nowhere. You think you know cold weather but Chicagoland is at least somewhat moderated by the lake. The week I was born Caribou never got above -20F... -Curt Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 20:10:21 -0600 From: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Message-ID: CALk3cy7XhW3E4x5cHa2yYHjAwGqn14Z1JEuSTOjtSn=nems...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Curt wrote: I offered him $50 a week to look after my farm. Figure my aunt and uncle would do the same or maybe more for their place. My cousin's place is even bigger and their caretaker is a bandit... I don't recall this offer. Tell me more - sounds like just what I am looking for. Or, take it OFFLIST? Thanks. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
I find that -20º F tends to keep the miscreants away. It is the odd warm day when they come out. I was 'bout to volunteer 'til you said, northern Maine, snow and -20F. ;))) Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Miscreants are many fewer in the winter, maybe you'd be interested in just a summer job? ;) Remember the week I was born (first week of February 1976) -20F was the daytime HIGH. It gets a lot colder. 100 inches of snow isn't uncommon, though 200 inches is. Caribou is actually quite a nice place to spend the summer, 1 maybe 2 days that air conditioning would be nice but its pretty much never required. Lots of country roads, nearest highway is an hour south. The Amish are moving in which is giving us nice little country stores. Canada is only 15 miles or so away and makes for nice day trips. Theres a little casino just over the border in Canada but its small enough it doesn't cause any real issues. Plenty of wildlife to look at and thats increasing due to crazies like me reforesting old farmland. -Curt Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 18:31:53 -0500 From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Message-ID: F071FAF4CEEF4798B1031D4312E97B03@wiltonPC Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I was 'bout to volunteer 'til you said, northern Maine, snow and -20F. ;))) Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
We have hearty miscreants ;) They don't really bother the farm much once snow is on the ground, they'll leave it alone until the ground hardens up again in May. -Curt Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 17:40:14 -0600 From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Message-ID: a0624085acb2d36762c9f@[192.168.1.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ; format=flowed I find that -20? F tends to keep the miscreants away. It is the odd warm day when they come out. I was 'bout to volunteer 'til you said, northern Maine, snow and -20F. ;))) Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Yep, I agree; mighty fine, beautiful summers up nawth, but alas, I've served my winter time there, too. BTW, in Greenland, any time temp was -25F or below, my truck, a 77 Ford crewcab pickup was to be left running. For two two-week periods (one in about March, 78, the other in about Jan, 79,) temp was -45F, and the truck ran continuously for each of the two-week periods. Chill factors each time were 'bout -85F. Wilton - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Miscreants are many fewer in the winter, maybe you'd be interested in just a summer job? ;) Remember the week I was born (first week of February 1976) -20F was the daytime HIGH. It gets a lot colder. 100 inches of snow isn't uncommon, though 200 inches is. Caribou is actually quite a nice place to spend the summer, 1 maybe 2 days that air conditioning would be nice but its pretty much never required. Lots of country roads, nearest highway is an hour south. The Amish are moving in which is giving us nice little country stores. Canada is only 15 miles or so away and makes for nice day trips. Theres a little casino just over the border in Canada but its small enough it doesn't cause any real issues. Plenty of wildlife to look at and thats increasing due to crazies like me reforesting old farmland. -Curt Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 18:31:53 -0500 From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Message-ID: F071FAF4CEEF4798B1031D4312E97B03@wiltonPC Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I was 'bout to volunteer 'til you said, northern Maine, snow and -20F. ;))) Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Final update for now: http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Last_suspect_arrested No actual news beyond the headline (last suspect arrested). Good work on the Sheriff's part (probably). Now the long wait to see what the criminal justice system can or cannot to. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 5:32 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender Thanks and please keep us updated on the outcome of this case. Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Now for the defense attorney to turn this individual into a clean cut super student, outstanding member of his community who was just walking by when all this happened...RIght? Then we the public get to feed and house him and his friends for the next few years while he works on his advanced degree in stupid. Grant... On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Final update for now: http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Last_suspect_arrested No actual news beyond the headline (last suspect arrested). Good work on the Sheriff's part (probably). Now the long wait to see what the criminal justice system can or cannot to. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 5:32 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender Thanks and please keep us updated on the outcome of this case. Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
On 05/01/2012 12:04 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Final update for now: http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Last_suspect_arrested No actual news beyond the headline (last suspect arrested). Good work on the Sheriff's part (probably). Now the long wait to see what the criminal justice system can or cannot to. Scott OK, I have been more prim and proper and politically correct than usual. What more do we know about the bad guys? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Well, one thing to remember. When you really mess up, a good lawyer is not a bad thing to have on your side. Bear in mind that there are places in this world where you don't get a chance to put up a proper defence. The theory of the system is that justice will prevail. The defence lawyer is not the judge. It is the job of the defence lawyer to try to ensure that the accused is treated fairly according to the law. You may find that sometimes that seems to fail but the bottom line is that it is considered better to let the guilty walk free than to condemn the innocent. Randy On 05/01/2012 12:45 PM, G Mann wrote: Now for the defense attorney to turn this individual into a clean cut super student, outstanding member of his community who was just walking by when all this happened...RIght? Then we the public get to feed and house him and his friends for the next few years while he works on his advanced degree in stupid. Grant... On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Scott Ritcheyritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Final update for now: http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Last_suspect_arrested No actual news beyond the headline (last suspect arrested). Good work on the Sheriff's part (probably). Now the long wait to see what the criminal justice system can or cannot to. Scott ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Grant wrote: Then we the public get to feed and house him and his friends for the next few years while he works on his advanced degree in stupid. We need to eliminate this type of cultural 'safety net' out of our culture. This type of 'safety net' is better handled by family, friends, community, if/when needed. This is why I still maintain that this culture is doomed - we are told too much dumb stuff about what the culture does, and we all expect more from everyone else. Eliminate the protections for ignorant and let ignorant experience failure. This guy is *not* going to be the next Steve Jobs, ever. I am willing to be on the death panel when these stupid protections are revoked. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Randy wrote: You may find that sometimes that seems to fail but the bottom line is that it is considered better to let the guilty walk free than to condemn the innocent. I can live without that protection - let a large number of innocent be condemned. That whole concept of innocence until proven guilty has disappeared - another nail in the death of culture. Tell me TSA and NDAA do not remove the concept of innocence until proven guilty. Again, I am willing to be the first interment camp inmate for speaking wrong. Rather, I will take the noose, just because... Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
. It is the job of the defence lawyer to try to ensure that the accused is treated fairly according to the law. No, it is the job of the defense to get the defendant acquitted! Sometimes fair treatment involves finding the defendant guilty (if that is what he fairly deserves), but that is NEVER the job of the defense attorney. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy Bennell Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:53 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Well, one thing to remember. When you really mess up, a good lawyer is not a bad thing to have on your side. Bear in mind that there are places in this world where you don't get a chance to put up a proper defence. The theory of the system is that justice will prevail. The defence lawyer is not the judge. It is the job of the defence lawyer to try to ensure that the accused is treated fairly according to the law. You may find that sometimes that seems to fail but the bottom line is that it is considered better to let the guilty walk free than to condemn the innocent. Randy On 05/01/2012 12:45 PM, G Mann wrote: Now for the defense attorney to turn this individual into a clean cut super student, outstanding member of his community who was just walking by when all this happened...RIght? Then we the public get to feed and house him and his friends for the next few years while he works on his advanced degree in stupid. Grant... On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Scott Ritcheyritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Final update for now: http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Last_suspect_arrested No actual news beyond the headline (last suspect arrested). Good work on the Sheriff's part (probably). Now the long wait to see what the criminal justice system can or cannot to. Scott ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
You did not read what I said. The defence is entitled to use the rules too. For example, the accused will generally not testify if guilty because his lawyer cannot prevent him from being questioned by the Crown (State in your case) and cannot counsel him to lie or participate in a scenario where he does if he knows. If you have ever read the Rumpole of the Bailey books, Rumpole never wants the client to tell him the truth. Wilful blindness is more acceptable than out and out deceit, I guess. So, as the defence, in most cases you pick at the Crown witnesses and then argue that the Crown has failed to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty. Sometimes it works if the Judge is honorable and has listened carefully. At least that was the way I used to do it. I know they say that the real high for a defence lawyer is to get someone off when you know full well he is guilty. I probably would have been better as a Crown as I cannot say I wanted to get the guilty off. Randy On 05/01/2012 5:02 PM, Greg Fiorentino wrote: . It is the job of the defence lawyer to try to ensure that the accused is treated fairly according to the law. No, it is the job of the defense to get the defendant acquitted! Sometimes fair treatment involves finding the defendant guilty (if that is what he fairly deserves), but that is NEVER the job of the defense attorney. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy Bennell Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:53 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Well, one thing to remember. When you really mess up, a good lawyer is not a bad thing to have on your side. Bear in mind that there are places in this world where you don't get a chance to put up a proper defence. The theory of the system is that justice will prevail. The defence lawyer is not the judge. It is the job of the defence lawyer to try to ensure that the accused is treated fairly according to the law. You may find that sometimes that seems to fail but the bottom line is that it is considered better to let the guilty walk free than to condemn the innocent. Randy On 05/01/2012 12:45 PM, G Mann wrote: Now for the defense attorney to turn this individual into a clean cut super student, outstanding member of his community who was just walking by when all this happened...RIght? Then we the public get to feed and house him and his friends for the next few years while he works on his advanced degree in stupid. Grant... On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Scott Ritcheyritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Final update for now: http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Last_suspect_arrested No actual news beyond the headline (last suspect arrested). Good work on the Sheriff's part (probably). Now the long wait to see what the criminal justice system can or cannot to. Scott ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
It is beginning to sound like you should head for the mountain, Mountain Man. Randy On 05/01/2012 3:19 PM, Mountain Man wrote: Randy wrote: You may find that sometimes that seems to fail but the bottom line is that it is considered better to let the guilty walk free than to condemn the innocent. I can live without that protection - let a large number of innocent be condemned. That whole concept of innocence until proven guilty has disappeared - another nail in the death of culture. Tell me TSA and NDAA do not remove the concept of innocence until proven guilty. Again, I am willing to be the first interment camp inmate for speaking wrong. Rather, I will take the noose, just because... Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. mao ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Randy Bennell wrote: At least that was the way I used to do it. I know they say that the real high for a defence lawyer is to get someone off when you know full well he is guilty. I probably would have been better as a Crown as I cannot say I wanted to get the guilty off. It's also said, in USA anyway, that any persecuting attorney can convict a guilty man, but the good ones can convict an innocent man. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
A good lawyer [barrister] knows the law... a GREAT lawyer knows the judge. In this instance, this miscreant is afforded the rule of law which states he is innocent until proven guilty, and since it is a felony criminal charge [I presume] the burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt. Further, based on what we have been told to this point, he and others participated in a crime which resulted in death which also involved home invasion with a weapon. Present laws in most states require said individuals to be charged with murder since one of their party was killed and they were party to the cause of said criminals death. Likely a second degree murder charge and a host of other charges stacked on [what ever the police and prosecution can find to add to the guilty load thus the mandatory sentence required by law upon guilty finding]. The wheels of justice from this point grind slowly, but exceedingly fine [we hope] from this point forward. Very unsatisfying, for the general public, who now must foot the cost of proving these alleged criminals guilt and after that, feed, clothe and house them for the next years. In the case of the one criminal found at the scene deceased, all costs for housing and prosecution for this and future crimes is abated. Elegant IMHO. Grant... On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Randy Bennell wrote: At least that was the way I used to do it. I know they say that the real high for a defence lawyer is to get someone off when you know full well he is guilty. I probably would have been better as a Crown as I cannot say I wanted to get the guilty off. It's also said, in USA anyway, that any persecuting attorney can convict a guilty man, but the good ones can convict an innocent man. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
I offered him $50 a week to look after my farm. Figure my aunt and uncle would do the same or maybe more for their place. My cousin's place is even bigger and their caretaker is a bandit... -Curt Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 17:55:07 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update Message-ID: 4f06385b.5080...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed It is beginning to sound like you should head for the mountain, Mountain Man. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Curt wrote: I offered him $50 a week to look after my farm. Figure my aunt and uncle would do the same or maybe more for their place. My cousin's place is even bigger and their caretaker is a bandit... I don't recall this offer. Tell me more - sounds like just what I am looking for. Or, take it OFFLIST? Thanks. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 20:10:21 -0600 Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Curt wrote: I offered him $50 a week to look after my farm. Figure my aunt and uncle would do the same or maybe more for their place. My cousin's place is even bigger and their caretaker is a bandit... I don't recall this offer. Tell me more - sounds like just what I am looking for. Or, take it OFFLIST? I do recall this offer and wondered why Mao didn't respond. Please keep it onlist. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
G Mann wrote: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away Like the widowed Okie teenager (I believe her husband died of old age) who called 9-1-1 when some guy started trying to break in to her home. The operator said she should put the sofa in front of the door and retreat with her baby, but she couldn't shoot him until he came inside. 21 minutes later, he forced his way in and she killed him. If the county is 50 miles wide and has 3 deputies on duty at any given time, that's probably the expected response time to a hot home invasion with firearms involved. My county is 24 miles wide and we're probably running our deputies in 50 man shifts. 21 minutes would cause public outcry here. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
What city has the most restrictive gun ownership laws in America? Washington DC. What city has the highest violent crime rate in America? Washington DC. And the reason is? [This ratio repeats for NYC, LA, Chicago, Detroit] Ample evidence that police don't stop crime, they only report it. Think for just a moment how successful 911 would have been if even 1% of the passengers on each hijacked airplane had properly exercised their Constitutional 2nd amendment Right to keep and bear arms. Could have two wars, trillions of dollars, thousands of lives, have been saved from being lost? Seconds do count, don't they. Survival is not a popularity contest [which may be the true meaning of PC]. On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 6:25 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: G Mann wrote: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away Like the widowed Okie teenager (I believe her husband died of old age) who called 9-1-1 when some guy started trying to break in to her home. The operator said she should put the sofa in front of the door and retreat with her baby, but she couldn't shoot him until he came inside. 21 minutes later, he forced his way in and she killed him. If the county is 50 miles wide and has 3 deputies on duty at any given time, that's probably the expected response time to a hot home invasion with firearms involved. My county is 24 miles wide and we're probably running our deputies in 50 man shifts. 21 minutes would cause public outcry here. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
G Mann wrote: Ample evidence that police don't stop crime, they only report it. Even in the best of situations, when seconds count in a fight to the death, the police are only minutes away. True life or death fights just don't last that long. Somebody wins, and somebody dies. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
If you live in an isolated area, it's only common sense that help is going to take a while to get there. That goes for police, fire, ambulance, whatever. On Wed, Jan 4, 2012, at 08:25 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: G Mann wrote: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away Like the widowed Okie teenager (I believe her husband died of old age) who called 9-1-1 when some guy started trying to break in to her home. The operator said she should put the sofa in front of the door and retreat with her baby, but she couldn't shoot him until he came inside. 21 minutes later, he forced his way in and she killed him. If the county is 50 miles wide and has 3 deputies on duty at any given time, that's probably the expected response time to a hot home invasion with firearms involved. My county is 24 miles wide and we're probably running our deputies in 50 man shifts. 21 minutes would cause public outcry here. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Every kid is different and what works for some will not work for others. If you keep firearms in the house you need to determine what will work in your particular situation. Having said that, a gun for home defense must be accessible and loaded (or at least have a loaded magazine close at hand). But, depending on your situation, a loaded firearm can be a bigger risk than crime. Life is a tradeoff. We live out in the country and we don't have any kids in the house. The master bedroom shotgun (20 ga pump) and revolver (.357) are always loaded and easily accessible. But the floor plan is such that I may not be able to get to that bedroom. So handguns (and magazines) in other parts of the house are loaded but stored in pistol vaults with digital combinations, which I can open in about 3 seconds, in the dark. This works for my specific situation. Having said that, we never had firearms in the house previously when we had children or lived in an urban area; but I didn't feel like we needed them then. I believe in education about guns, not gun locks. The other 2 kids were taught about guns when they were about 4-6 years old, not how to use them, but what they will do and not to touch them. They never did try to mess with them or show any interest in trying to play with them. I think its when you keep them a mystery kids try to mess with them. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Scott Ritchey wrote: We live out in the country and we don't have any kids in the house. The master bedroom shotgun (20 ga pump) and revolver (.357) are always loaded and easily accessible. But the floor plan is such that I may not be able to get to that bedroom. That's why my mom's cousin wears a small .380 around the house. Seems odd to see a 70 year old doing the dishes with a holster on, but it's small and doesn't get in her way, yet she always has it handy. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
That reminds me of an experience many years ago. I was living in Virginia, in this apt complex, for the summer (working as an intern there). This girl I knew, who also was an intern and lived in the same complex, had a cat that died in some fashion. So she wants to bury the cat, which I said I would help her do (what a guy!). It was getting on dark, and there was a vacant lot back behind the complex, so I figured I could go to a house nearby and borrow a shovel. I go to a little house, knock on the side door by the garage, see someone inside but door does not open. So I knock again, and call out, asking if I could borrow a shovel from the garage. About that time this older guy comes walking up and asks what I want. I tell him a shovel to bury a dead cat, he sorta looks at me like I am a dumbass, but says he will check with the lady inside. So he hollers at her to let him in, the door opens, and he yells at her, Now Maudy (or whatever her name was) put down that gun and be nice to this young man! I see her standing there with a chrome-plated .38 and I just about crap my pants, thinking I coulda got shot by this old lady for wanting to be a nice guy and bury a damn dead cat. So anyway, I get the shovel, we go bury the cat after appropriate ceremony, I take the shovel back after a few minutes, the guy is sitting in there drinking coffee or something, I thank them very quickly and get on my way. The situation had a happy ending for my young lady friend, such as it was, but for me, alas but at least I had not been ventilated by a deaf (and probably half-blind too) old lady waving around a .38. --R On 1/4/12 6:05 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: That's why my mom's cousin wears a small .380 around the house. Seems odd to see a 70 year old doing the dishes with a holster on, but it's small and doesn't get in her way, yet she always has it handy. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
If you feel the need to have the last word, be my guest as I am done with this after this message. You are absolutely right that you cannot see the perp or what he was doing when the accused shot him another half dozen times. So, for all you know, he was out cold and no threat whatsoever. I can understand the anger of the victim and the desire to finish him off but the law does not permit that sort of thing. Reasonable people are expected to behave in a reasonable manner. You are generally not permitted to let your anger get the best of you. It appears that this fellow did. That was why he was charged and why he was found guilty. Randy On 02/01/2012 1:27 PM, G Mann wrote: It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the incident on tape. What is not easy is to put yourself in the mans shoes. Have you ever been shot at from close range? Just how threatened would you be if two armed guys, intent on shooting you, simply started shooting directly at you? Would you, at that time, be cold enough to simply restrain the armed assailants? Only you can answer that, and only while under those stresses. Not after the fact. What the video does NOT show is exactly what the perp was doing. Was he continuing to try to shoot the store owner? Perhaps he was. If you were there, at that exact moment, what would you have done presuming the perp still held his gun on you? The duty to protect yourself exceeds any duty you may feel to protect the person who is trying to murder you and has clearly displayed his anger and intent by shooting at you at close range. I rest my case ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I most respectfully agree to disagree for all the reasons previously stated. Grant... On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: If you feel the need to have the last word, be my guest as I am done with this after this message. You are absolutely right that you cannot see the perp or what he was doing when the accused shot him another half dozen times. So, for all you know, he was out cold and no threat whatsoever. I can understand the anger of the victim and the desire to finish him off but the law does not permit that sort of thing. Reasonable people are expected to behave in a reasonable manner. You are generally not permitted to let your anger get the best of you. It appears that this fellow did. That was why he was charged and why he was found guilty. Randy On 02/01/2012 1:27 PM, G Mann wrote: It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the incident on tape. What is not easy is to put yourself in the mans shoes. Have you ever been shot at from close range? Just how threatened would you be if two armed guys, intent on shooting you, simply started shooting directly at you? Would you, at that time, be cold enough to simply restrain the armed assailants? Only you can answer that, and only while under those stresses. Not after the fact. What the video does NOT show is exactly what the perp was doing. Was he continuing to try to shoot the store owner? Perhaps he was. If you were there, at that exact moment, what would you have done presuming the perp still held his gun on you? The duty to protect yourself exceeds any duty you may feel to protect the person who is trying to murder you and has clearly displayed his anger and intent by shooting at you at close range. I rest my case __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Here's a link to the latest (today) update from the media. http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Teen_to_911 As it turns out, we also have some backchannel info through family connections. The perps (four of them according to cops) knocked on the back door but the kids did not answer the door. I assume their parents (who were at work) told them not to. After a time the perps started to break the back door, which I suspect was mostly glass (sliding or atrium style probable). At this point, the 14 year old boy told his 17 year old sister to get inside her bedroom closet and call 911 on her cell. Then he loaded the shotgun and stood guard inside her bedroom door. Today's article covers of the rest of the story via the 911 call. Some other points: This house is pretty isolated on a country road and not visible by any of the neighbors as far as I can tell. At least two of the perps, Henderson (dead guy) and Terry (arrested Thursday) have really long criminal records, particularly for someone so young; this break-in was business as usual for them. The perps probably thought no one was home, but still, they were armed (according to the 14 year-old although Sheriff has not said so yet) so it's reasonable to assume they would have taken care of witnesses. The most disturbing aspect (IMO) is the revolving door for criminals in these parts. In the rare instance the perps are caught, they are soon back on the street: on bail, after pleading out, or after serving just a few months (all of which were the case for at least the two we know about). In short, the system ain't working. If you want to see how isolated this place is and how safe the perps were behind the house, go to: http://vance.connectgis.com/Login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fMap.aspx , accept the disclaimer, and search on PIN 0460 01006 on the left. The last couple articles in the paper mention the new NC Castle Doctrine law, which went into effect 1 Dec. While not as strong as the FL law the NC has one important feature: immunity from civil suit if your actions were legal. Otherwise the new NC law says you no longer have to retreat or prove fear of death or great bodily harm to legally use lethal force if you are attacked in your home, vehicle, or business. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 5:32 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender Thanks and please keep us updated on the outcome of this case. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott Ritchey Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender This story continues to unfold (see attached article from today's paper). The second suspect (Terry) is now in custody and two others were named and are being sought. I suspect this Terry guy was the ring leader; he sounds like a major-league repeat offender, consider these excerpts: Terry was also wanted for a previous breaking-and-entering that occurred at a Parham Road residence on Nov. 14... Court records indicate Terry had been charged with more than a dozen previous break-in and theft felonies in recent years [Terry] was recently released from serving concurrent 9-11 month sentences for break-in and theft convictions ... when released on Feb. 9, 2010 Terry also served a 9-11 month sentence for a previous felony break-in case ... when he was released on Feb. 4, 2009 He had been given two previous suspended sentences on previous felony theft cases. Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when crime has become a way of life. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:31 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 Scott and Gwen Ritchey ritche...@aol.com wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture of the house and give the address and names of the owners? I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to it without getting shot by the intruders. Yes
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I believe in education about guns, not gun locks. The other 2 kids were taught about guns when they were about 4-6 years old, not how to use them, but what they will do and not to touch them. They never did try to mess with them or show any interest in trying to play with them. I think its when you keep them a mystery kids try to mess with them. If you have kids that don't seem to get the point, buy them a pet and then (later) shoot the pet. In front of them. That ought to get their attention! I'm only half kidding. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
Another update today: http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Second_suspect_arrested #3 (of 4) now in custody. This one is the brother of the perp who was shot dead. Maybe not the worst of the lot but certainly another data point showing that the system ain't working. I marvel at this 20-year-old's resume (marvel that he isn't in jail): He was already wanted on charges include assault on female and assault on female by pointing a gun At age 18, he was charged with disorderly conduct He was listed as victim in a 2009 shooting Assault charges came in February and October 2009, February 2010, and recently pending assault complaints on Nov. 12 and Dec. 5 The latest cases include a firearm allegation and a charge that he has been derelict on paying court ordered child support He received a 45-day jail sentence for drug possession in June 2009 and he had been on a 12-month probation order from that sentence when charged with assault, felony conspiracy, inflicting serious injury and simple assault of victim Ricky Hargrove on Feb. 23, 2010 He received a sentence of 10 days in jail from the assault/injury/conspiracy case ... and had been ordered on Jan. 24, 2011, to serve a 12-month probation in that case. Though serving probation during the course of nearly a dozen charged offenses, ... [he] does not appear to have ever been charged with a probation violation Scott This -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 5:32 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender Thanks and please keep us updated on the outcome of this case. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott Ritchey Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender This story continues to unfold (see attached article from today's paper). The second suspect (Terry) is now in custody and two others were named and are being sought. I suspect this Terry guy was the ring leader; he sounds like a major-league repeat offender, consider these excerpts: Terry was also wanted for a previous breaking-and-entering that occurred at a Parham Road residence on Nov. 14... Court records indicate Terry had been charged with more than a dozen previous break-in and theft felonies in recent years [Terry] was recently released from serving concurrent 9-11 month sentences for break-in and theft convictions ... when released on Feb. 9, 2010 Terry also served a 9-11 month sentence for a previous felony break-in case ... when he was released on Feb. 4, 2009 He had been given two previous suspended sentences on previous felony theft cases. Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when crime has become a way of life. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:31 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 Scott and Gwen Ritchey ritche...@aol.com wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture of the house and give the address and names of the owners? I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to it without getting shot by the intruders. Yes, it was a very satisfactory solution. The fellow's rap sheet shows that he was indeed a repeat offender. I pray the lad doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this as well. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m From the comments to the article, it seems that Vance County has had a problem with this type of thing for quite a while. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: The Daily Dispatch - Suspect arrested in home invasion that led to fatal shooting two more sought.txt URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 18:36:56 -0500 Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: If you want to see how isolated this place is and how safe the perps were behind the house, go to: http://vance.connectgis.com/Login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fMap.aspx , accept the disclaimer, and search on PIN 0460 01006 on the left. Google Maps has the wrong address, but by comparing the GIS map, I found the house. Google Maps shows better what the area looks like. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=36.245658,-78.465301ll=36.243962,-78.463283spn=0.026409,0.041199num=1t=hvpsrc=6z=15 or http://g.co/maps/69f42 Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender-update
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 18:36:56 -0500 Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: If you want to see how isolated this place is and how safe the perps were behind the house, go to: http://vance.connectgis.com/Login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fMap.aspx , accept the disclaimer, and search on PIN 0460 01006 on the left. Google Maps has the wrong address, but by comparing the GIS map, I found the house. Google Maps shows better what the area looks like. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=36.245658,-78.465301ll=36.243962,-78.463283spn=0.026409,0.041199num=1t=hvpsrc=6z=15 or http://g.co/maps/69f42 Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable force to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5 times. That showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he had left well enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for shooting the robber the first time. Randy On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in jail here at all. Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem. For some reason they decided to make an example out of this guy. People are really pissed about it around here for sure. Here is the story http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802 And video of the crime. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFg On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked. The right to defend laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves against harm. Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his neighborhood. He went out, waving a gun to threaten them. Another neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young daughter, confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the man right in front of his daughter. This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched, as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude claimed he felt threatened by the guy. I don't think the judge was happy about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a choice. Nothing is perfect, folks... Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away. He then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and emptied that one into the guy as well. I think the guy should have got a medal. On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida. I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space. After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.) Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I'm no lawyer but the video sure shows excessive force. Not sure what angle the defense uses but temporary insanity would sure have worked better around here then the he had it coming defense. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable force to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5 times. That showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he had left well enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for shooting the robber the first time. Randy On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in jail here at all. Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem. For some reason they decided to make an example out of this guy. People are really pissed about it around here for sure. Here is the story http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802 And video of the crime. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFg On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked. The right to defend laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves against harm. Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his neighborhood. He went out, waving a gun to threaten them. Another neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young daughter, confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the man right in front of his daughter. This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched, as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude claimed he felt threatened by the guy. I don't think the judge was happy about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a choice. Nothing is perfect, folks... Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away. He then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and emptied that one into the guy as well. I think the guy should have got a medal. On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida. I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space. After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.) Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Meanwhile, in Oklahoma, another upstanding citizen reaps the wages of his pursuits: http://www.koco.com/news/30114963/detail.html And his friend looks quite a real prize too. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I do not agree. obvious anger and intent comment fails to take into effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm. Respectfully, Grant... On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable force to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5 times. That showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he had left well enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for shooting the robber the first time. Randy On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in jail here at all. Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem. For some reason they decided to make an example out of this guy. People are really pissed about it around here for sure. Here is the story http://abcnews.go.com/US/**oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-** robbers-accomplices-life-**prison/story?id=14053802http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802 And video of the crime. http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=YHshsgpsxFghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFg On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked. The right to defend laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves against harm. Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his neighborhood. He went out, waving a gun to threaten them. Another neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young daughter, confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the man right in front of his daughter. This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched, as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude claimed he felt threatened by the guy. I don't think the judge was happy about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a choice. Nothing is perfect, folks... Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away. He then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and emptied that one into the guy as well. I think the guy should have got a medal. On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida. I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space. After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.) Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m __**_ __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
You can not agree all you want but the bottom line is that you are entitled to defend yourself in a reasonable manner with a reasonable amount of force. If you go beyond what is considered to be reasonable, then you may end up paying the price for your actions. Shoot the bad guy once and no one is likely to blame you if he is pointing a gun at you at the time. Shoot him a dozen times after he is flat out on the floor, and you look about as bad as he did. I watched the video and thought, if it was me, I might have been more concerned that the other guy might come back for his buddy. Had he shot him too, it might have been acceptable but to shoot the guy who was already down a number of times is just not acceptable in the eyes of most reasonable people. The same thing goes with beating someone up. If you get in a fist fight and knock the other fellow out, you had best not put the boots to him and lay a big beating on him. You were entitled to defend yourself but not entitled to carry on and kill or maim the other person. Grab a rope or some tape and tie him up or whatever until the police get there to deal with it. Randy On 02/01/2012 12:08 PM, G Mann wrote: I do not agree. obvious anger and intent comment fails to take into effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm. Respectfully, Grant... On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Randy Bennellrbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable force to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5 times. That showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he had left well enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for shooting the robber the first time. Randy On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in jail here at all. Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem. For some reason they decided to make an example out of this guy. People are really pissed about it around here for sure. Here is the story http://abcnews.go.com/US/**oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-** robbers-accomplices-life-**prison/story?id=14053802http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802 And video of the crime. http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=YHshsgpsxFghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFg On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked. The right to defend laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves against harm. Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his neighborhood. He went out, waving a gun to threaten them. Another neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young daughter, confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the man right in front of his daughter. This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched, as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude claimed he felt threatened by the guy. I don't think the judge was happy about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a choice. Nothing is perfect, folks... Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away. He then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and emptied that one into the guy as well. I think the guy should have got a medal. On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida. I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space. After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.) Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the incident on tape. What is not easy is to put yourself in the mans shoes. Have you ever been shot at from close range? Just how threatened would you be if two armed guys, intent on shooting you, simply started shooting directly at you? Would you, at that time, be cold enough to simply restrain the armed assailants? Only you can answer that, and only while under those stresses. Not after the fact. What the video does NOT show is exactly what the perp was doing. Was he continuing to try to shoot the store owner? Perhaps he was. If you were there, at that exact moment, what would you have done presuming the perp still held his gun on you? The duty to protect yourself exceeds any duty you may feel to protect the person who is trying to murder you and has clearly displayed his anger and intent by shooting at you at close range. I rest my case On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: You can not agree all you want but the bottom line is that you are entitled to defend yourself in a reasonable manner with a reasonable amount of force. If you go beyond what is considered to be reasonable, then you may end up paying the price for your actions. Shoot the bad guy once and no one is likely to blame you if he is pointing a gun at you at the time. Shoot him a dozen times after he is flat out on the floor, and you look about as bad as he did. I watched the video and thought, if it was me, I might have been more concerned that the other guy might come back for his buddy. Had he shot him too, it might have been acceptable but to shoot the guy who was already down a number of times is just not acceptable in the eyes of most reasonable people. The same thing goes with beating someone up. If you get in a fist fight and knock the other fellow out, you had best not put the boots to him and lay a big beating on him. You were entitled to defend yourself but not entitled to carry on and kill or maim the other person. Grab a rope or some tape and tie him up or whatever until the police get there to deal with it. Randy On 02/01/2012 12:08 PM, G Mann wrote: I do not agree. obvious anger and intent comment fails to take into effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm. Respectfully, Grant... On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Randy Bennellrbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable force to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5 times. That showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he had left well enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for shooting the robber the first time. Randy On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in jail here at all. Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem. For some reason they decided to make an example out of this guy. People are really pissed about it around here for sure. Here is the story http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-**http://abcnews.go.com/US/**oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-** robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802http:** //abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-**pharmacist-dead-robbers-** accomplices-life-prison/story?**id=14053802http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802 And video of the crime. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=YHshsgpsxFg http://www.**youtube.com/watch?v=**YHshsgpsxFghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFg On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked. The right to defend laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves against harm. Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his neighborhood. He went out, waving a gun to threaten them. Another neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young daughter, confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the man right in front of his daughter. This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched, as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude claimed he felt threatened by the guy. I don't think the judge was happy about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a choice. Nothing is perfect, folks... Dan On Dec 30, 2011,
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I'm with Grant on this one, the red curtain comes down and some people wake up later thinking What the hell happened? I've read many reports of people getting off. The he had it coming defense is just stupid. Its the second magazine that did it. I can vaugely remember a similar case (might even be this case) where getting the second magazine to keep shooting got somebody in trouble. I totally get what happened, the guy defends himself, the intruder is dead, adrenaline is PUMPING and the defender is now jacked with nothing to do but stand around. Anybody who's been in a fight where the police scared everybody off knows what I'm talking about. -Curt Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 12:23:51 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender Message-ID: 4f01f637.4040...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed You can not agree all you want but the bottom line is that you are entitled to defend yourself in a reasonable manner with a reasonable amount of force. If you go beyond what is considered to be reasonable, then you may end up paying the price for your actions. Shoot the bad guy once and no one is likely to blame you if he is pointing a gun at you at the time. Shoot him a dozen times after he is flat out on the floor, and you look about as bad as he did. I watched the video and thought, if it was me, I might have been more concerned that the other guy might come back for his buddy. Had he shot him too, it might have been acceptable but to shoot the guy who was already down a number of times is just not acceptable in the eyes of most reasonable people. The same thing goes with beating someone up. If you get in a fist fight and knock the other fellow out, you had best not put the boots to him and lay a big beating on him. You were entitled to defend yourself but not entitled to carry on and kill or maim the other person. Grab a rope or some tape and tie him up or whatever until the police get there to deal with it. Randy On 02/01/2012 12:08 PM, G Mann wrote: I do not agree. obvious anger and intent comment fails to take into effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm. Respectfully, Grant... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: I'm with Grant on this one, the red curtain comes down and some people wake up later thinking What the hell happened? I've read many reports of people getting off. The he had it coming defense is just stupid. If you watch the movie Armadillo (on Netflix, at least it was a couple of months ago) you can see this happen. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
G Mann wrote: It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the incident on tape. What is not easy is to put yourself in the mans shoes. Have you ever been shot at from close range? Just how threatened would you be if two armed guys, intent on shooting you, simply started shooting directly at you? In this country, only those with years of training and experience (and badges) get a free pass for doing things wrong in the heat of the moment and somebody else dies from it. Those who don't make a profession out of 'use of force' must be perfect in every way or go to jail. I'm not saying it's fair,nor am I saying I have any tolerance for it, but I'm in the minority or it never would have become like this. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Sorry, I didn't make my point apparently. Thanks for bringing it better in focus. The issue I see is the standard for criminal charges is quite high. It requires beyond all reasonable doubt. It is my considered opinion that standard is NOT met by the video. The fact that it appears the store owner felt the need to obtain further sufficient ammunition gives reasonable doubt that he was under continued threat for his life. We do NOT see the assailant who is wounded and on the floor, but we do see that he was armed and shooting when he went down. Is he dead? Reasonable doubt dictates that we do not know the exact time of his death. Nor do we know if he continued to attack from a prone position by displaying his weapon in threatening manner... again, reasonable doubt. Fact: The store owner continued to defend himself, which gives weight to the argument the assailant continued to be a viable threat to his life. Again, reasonable doubt, to the validity of the argument of anger and unnecessary violence. Rule #1: In a gunfight... always have a gun. Rule #2: In a gunfight, second place is not acceptable. Rule #3: Revert to rule #1 as long as it takes to gain First place finish. It's very evident from the onset of the tape the two individuals are not a couple of Jehovas` Witnesses passing out religious tracts. I rest my case. Judge: Tell me Mrs. Jones, why did you shoot the rapist 6 times. Mrs. Jones: Your Honor, when I pulled the trigger the 7th, 8th. 9th time,, it just went click ,click, click. Grant... AZ... Where we DO have the castle doctrine law and both open and discrete carry with no permit requirement. Under state law, my person is my castle regardless of my location. On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm with Grant on this one, the red curtain comes down and some people wake up later thinking What the hell happened? I've read many reports of people getting off. The he had it coming defense is just stupid. Its the second magazine that did it. I can vaugely remember a similar case (might even be this case) where getting the second magazine to keep shooting got somebody in trouble. I totally get what happened, the guy defends himself, the intruder is dead, adrenaline is PUMPING and the defender is now jacked with nothing to do but stand around. Anybody who's been in a fight where the police scared everybody off knows what I'm talking about. -Curt Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 12:23:51 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender Message-ID: 4f01f637.4040...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed You can not agree all you want but the bottom line is that you are entitled to defend yourself in a reasonable manner with a reasonable amount of force. If you go beyond what is considered to be reasonable, then you may end up paying the price for your actions. Shoot the bad guy once and no one is likely to blame you if he is pointing a gun at you at the time. Shoot him a dozen times after he is flat out on the floor, and you look about as bad as he did. I watched the video and thought, if it was me, I might have been more concerned that the other guy might come back for his buddy. Had he shot him too, it might have been acceptable but to shoot the guy who was already down a number of times is just not acceptable in the eyes of most reasonable people. The same thing goes with beating someone up. If you get in a fist fight and knock the other fellow out, you had best not put the boots to him and lay a big beating on him. You were entitled to defend yourself but not entitled to carry on and kill or maim the other person. Grab a rope or some tape and tie him up or whatever until the police get there to deal with it. Randy On 02/01/2012 12:08 PM, G Mann wrote: I do not agree. obvious anger and intent comment fails to take into effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm. Respectfully, Grant... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Thanks and please keep us updated on the outcome of this case. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott Ritchey Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender This story continues to unfold (see attached article from today's paper). The second suspect (Terry) is now in custody and two others were named and are being sought. I suspect this Terry guy was the ring leader; he sounds like a major-league repeat offender, consider these excerpts: Terry was also wanted for a previous breaking-and-entering that occurred at a Parham Road residence on Nov. 14... Court records indicate Terry had been charged with more than a dozen previous break-in and theft felonies in recent years [Terry] was recently released from serving concurrent 9-11 month sentences for break-in and theft convictions ... when released on Feb. 9, 2010 Terry also served a 9-11 month sentence for a previous felony break-in case ... when he was released on Feb. 4, 2009 He had been given two previous suspended sentences on previous felony theft cases. Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when crime has become a way of life. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:31 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 Scott and Gwen Ritchey ritche...@aol.com wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture of the house and give the address and names of the owners? I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to it without getting shot by the intruders. Yes, it was a very satisfactory solution. The fellow's rap sheet shows that he was indeed a repeat offender. I pray the lad doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this as well. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m From the comments to the article, it seems that Vance County has had a problem with this type of thing for quite a while. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: The Daily Dispatch - Suspect arrested in home invasion that led to fatal shooting two more sought.txt URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/201112 31/56eae771/attachment.txt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I lived across the street from the house where the infamous Railroad Killer killed a victim in Houston (we bought the house after the event), a woman doctor who was there alone while her husband was off visiting some family. About a year after we moved there, they caught the guy. So the TV people were all out there with cameras and doing interviews and such about the guy. One of them (a very cute young lady reporterette) knocks on the door, asks me if I want to be interviewed. Sure, why not. So she asks me a few questions, then asks, What do you think should be done to him? I point over to a big oak in front of the house, and say, I'm sure the neighbors would pitch in to buy a stout rope and we could take care of him right there. That part did not make it on the 6PM newsblast (or the 10) but my dog did get on TV. Texas dealt with him mighty quick as he did not dispute the charges and wanted to have it done with. --R On 12/31/11 7:11 PM, Dieselhead wrote: A rope and a tree still works well. It has just fallen out of favor. This story continues to unfold (see attached article from today's paper). The second suspect (Terry) is now in custody and two others were named and are being sought. I suspect this Terry guy was the ring leader; he sounds like a major-league repeat offender, consider these excerpts: Terry was also wanted for a previous breaking-and-entering that occurred at a Parham Road residence on Nov. 14... Court records indicate Terry had been charged with more than a dozen previous break-in and theft felonies in recent years [Terry] was recently released from serving concurrent 9-11 month sentences for break-in and theft convictions ... when released on Feb. 9, 2010 Terry also served a 9-11 month sentence for a previous felony break-in case ... when he was released on Feb. 4, 2009 He had been given two previous suspended sentences on previous felony theft cases. Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when crime has become a way of life. Scott ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
This story continues to unfold (see attached article from today's paper). The second suspect (Terry) is now in custody and two others were named and are being sought. I suspect this Terry guy was the ring leader; he sounds like a major-league repeat offender, consider these excerpts: Terry was also wanted for a previous breaking-and-entering that occurred at a Parham Road residence on Nov. 14... Court records indicate Terry had been charged with more than a dozen previous break-in and theft felonies in recent years [Terry] was recently released from serving concurrent 9-11 month sentences for break-in and theft convictions ... when released on Feb. 9, 2010 Terry also served a 9-11 month sentence for a previous felony break-in case ... when he was released on Feb. 4, 2009 He had been given two previous suspended sentences on previous felony theft cases. Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when crime has become a way of life. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:31 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 Scott and Gwen Ritchey ritche...@aol.com wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture of the house and give the address and names of the owners? I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to it without getting shot by the intruders. Yes, it was a very satisfactory solution. The fellow's rap sheet shows that he was indeed a repeat offender. I pray the lad doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this as well. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m From the comments to the article, it seems that Vance County has had a problem with this type of thing for quite a while. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: The Daily Dispatch - Suspect arrested in home invasion that led to fatal shooting two more sought.txt URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20111231/56eae771/attachment.txt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com writes: Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when crime has become a way of life. Sounds like the 14yo kid figured out a good alternative -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
So as the rest of the story comes to light, it would appear this gang had established a documented pattern of violent home invasions [ie. bad decisions] The court system has failed to protect the good decision citizens and did the revolving door treatment, which further enabled the criminals. Now I understand why our Founding Fathers drafted a Constitution that included both the 1st and 2nd amendment... If allowed to function, Citizens can both speak freely and never lose the Right of defense. God Bless America Grant... AZ... On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 10:34 AM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: This story continues to unfold (see attached article from today's paper). The second suspect (Terry) is now in custody and two others were named and are being sought. I suspect this Terry guy was the ring leader; he sounds like a major-league repeat offender, consider these excerpts: Terry was also wanted for a previous breaking-and-entering that occurred at a Parham Road residence on Nov. 14... Court records indicate Terry had been charged with more than a dozen previous break-in and theft felonies in recent years [Terry] was recently released from serving concurrent 9-11 month sentences for break-in and theft convictions ... when released on Feb. 9, 2010 Terry also served a 9-11 month sentence for a previous felony break-in case ... when he was released on Feb. 4, 2009 He had been given two previous suspended sentences on previous felony theft cases. Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when crime has become a way of life. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:31 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 Scott and Gwen Ritchey ritche...@aol.com wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture of the house and give the address and names of the owners? I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to it without getting shot by the intruders. Yes, it was a very satisfactory solution. The fellow's rap sheet shows that he was indeed a repeat offender. I pray the lad doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this as well. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m From the comments to the article, it seems that Vance County has had a problem with this type of thing for quite a while. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: The Daily Dispatch - Suspect arrested in home invasion that led to fatal shooting two more sought.txt URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20111231/56eae771/attachment.txt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
A rope and a tree still works well. It has just fallen out of favor. This story continues to unfold (see attached article from today's paper). The second suspect (Terry) is now in custody and two others were named and are being sought. I suspect this Terry guy was the ring leader; he sounds like a major-league repeat offender, consider these excerpts: Terry was also wanted for a previous breaking-and-entering that occurred at a Parham Road residence on Nov. 14... Court records indicate Terry had been charged with more than a dozen previous break-in and theft felonies in recent years [Terry] was recently released from serving concurrent 9-11 month sentences for break-in and theft convictions ... when released on Feb. 9, 2010 Terry also served a 9-11 month sentence for a previous felony break-in case ... when he was released on Feb. 4, 2009 He had been given two previous suspended sentences on previous felony theft cases. Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when crime has become a way of life. Scott ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Terry is obviously stupid. A criminal needs to be smarter, or else change careers. Randy On 31/12/2011 11:34 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote: This story continues to unfold (see attached article from today's paper). The second suspect (Terry) is now in custody and two others were named and are being sought. I suspect this Terry guy was the ring leader; he sounds like a major-league repeat offender, consider these excerpts: Terry was also wanted for a previous breaking-and-entering that occurred at a Parham Road residence on Nov. 14... Court records indicate Terry had been charged with more than a dozen previous break-in and theft felonies in recent years [Terry] was recently released from serving concurrent 9-11 month sentences for break-in and theft convictions ... when released on Feb. 9, 2010 Terry also served a 9-11 month sentence for a previous felony break-in case ... when he was released on Feb. 4, 2009 He had been given two previous suspended sentences on previous felony theft cases. Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when crime has become a way of life. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:31 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 Scott and Gwen Ritchey ritche...@aol.com wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture of the house and give the address and names of the owners? I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to it without getting shot by the intruders. Yes, it was a very satisfactory solution. The fellow's rap sheet shows that he was indeed a repeat offender. I pray the lad doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this as well. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 Scott and Gwen Ritchey ritche...@aol.com wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture of the house and give the address and names of the owners? I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to it without getting shot by the intruders. Yes, it was a very satisfactory solution. The fellow's rap sheet shows that he was indeed a repeat offender. I pray the lad doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this as well. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m From the comments to the article, it seems that Vance County has had a problem with this type of thing for quite a while. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida. I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space. After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.) Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Death by armed assailant has not been found to be permanent. Survival of the attack will out weigh what ever psychological effect comes from defending yourself and the lives of others. On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 Scott and Gwen Ritchey ritche...@aol.com wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture of the house and give the address and names of the owners? I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to it without getting shot by the intruders. Yes, it was a very satisfactory solution. The fellow's rap sheet shows that he was indeed a repeat offender. I pray the lad doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this as well. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m From the comments to the article, it seems that Vance County has had a problem with this type of thing for quite a while. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture of the house and give the address and names of the owners? The article named two. About the rest, I guess the paper (this is a struggling small-town paper) prints what they get from the Sheriff. As we all know, the cops don't tell everything they know and the papers don't always get it right. So this is more like an initial contact report than a final after action report in my view. I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to it without getting shot by the intruders. My barber suspected the boy was upstairs in a media room with the front door facing the foot of the stairs. So he probably had time and space to react. From the comments to the article, it seems that Vance County has had a problem with this type of thing for quite a while. Vance County has high unemployment (like 14% last I recall) and high crime. But I suspect it's more a matter of a few repeat offenders vs many criminals. I recall one arrest that closed 17 cases. The Sheriff, who often addresses our community watch group, says his main limiting factor is lack of jail space; he has a list of people he'll arrest as soon as he gets an open cell. One ADA (who also addressed our group) said her main problem is lack of court time; specifically, she pleads out many lesser cases because she knows she'll never get them scheduled into a courtroom. So community watch groups have really gained traction here, primarily to provide eyes and ears for the police. Although last week, when my neighbors alarm system went off at midnight (turns out they were out of town) three other neighbors arrived (all armed) in minutes. Scott ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
One more serial loser off the streets. Nobody will mess with that kid, thats for sure. Hope he gets some time with a counselor. -Curt Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 From: Scott and Gwen Ritchey ritche...@aol.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender Message-ID: 18F8883F01D24A48940863BF6931FA2F@ScottPC Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011, at 01:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.) Though maybe he'll think twice about breaking into someone's house again... Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
G Mann wrote: Survival of the attack will out weigh what ever psychological effect comes from defending yourself and the lives of others. I'm sure whatever trauma he might suffer from exercising good target selection and shot placement will be less than the trauma of being tied up and watching two creeps haul his 17 year old sister out of the shower and rape her. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I have to say this is a sad commentary in many ways. We have to feel sorry for the folks who were invaded by hoodlums and feel sorry for the poor kid who felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself but no one has yet commented on the kid who was killed or his family etc. One has to wonder why someone ends up in a scenario like this. Most of us are not born to a life of crime. Some may be trained by parents who are as bad or worse than the kids end up but sometimes the parents are law abiding citizens who must be wondering how and where they went wrong. Illegal Drugs are a likely issue in something like this. One wonders why some people fall victim to this sort of thing and others do not. I have to wonder and be thankful that my kids have not fallen into this trap. I have a niece (or at least my good wife has a niece, if we follow blood lines and the legal definition of niece ) who has fallen into the drug world. She periodically dusts herself off and tries to come back but it does not appear to be possible. She ha sno self esteem and seems to lack the mental capacity of a normal adult. I have to think that she has fried enough brain cells to make it impossible for her to ever be normal. A sad thing as she is a pretty girl and could have had the world by the tail if she had just stayed away from the crack. We assume one day we will hear that she is dead. I assume it will not be because she was shot during a home invasion but assume it will either be an overdose or that she was beaten to death by some of the scumbags she hangs out with whenever she falls off the wagon. I have watched her grow up since she was born and cannot fault her mother. Her father has not been in the picture since she was an toddler. He was a hopeless alcoholic the last time I saw him which is a long while back. When she ends up dead, her mother is going to be very upset. I suggest it is likely that the young man shot in this incident has a mother somewhere who may well feel the same. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I have a cousin who grew older to become a basic dumbass, thief and such, spent some time in the Big House, but his brother is an upstanding guy. Given the same parents and upbringing, I have been struggling to determine what causes such differences. I think a lot of it is the culture a kid grows up in (includes the family and community culture) but I think genetics (and maybe illnesses one gets growing up) plays a strong role too. Some get dealt some genes that disposes them to behaviors or addictions through mental and physical (which also includes the organic aspect of mental) differences from others who do not do such things. And some of it is just they decide to be the way they are in spite of knowing better. But mostly I think the kinds of guys we have been discussing are basically a product of a culture that does not see such behavior as being particularly bad, or good productive behavior as being, well, good and productive. Parents have a lot to do with that, but their peers and community shape it a lot too. In some ways I feel justice is done when a perp gets immediate punishment, but I am also saddened by the loss of someone who could have been better if family, friends, or community could have steered him better. But, Darwin lives... --R On 12/30/11 4:36 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: I have to say this is a sad commentary in many ways. We have to feel sorry for the folks who were invaded by hoodlums and feel sorry for the poor kid who felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself but no one has yet commented on the kid who was killed or his family etc. One has to wonder why someone ends up in a scenario like this. Most of us are not born to a life of crime. Some may be trained by parents who are as bad or worse than the kids end up but sometimes the parents are law abiding citizens who must be wondering how and where they went wrong. Illegal Drugs are a likely issue in something like this. One wonders why some people fall victim to this sort of thing and others do not. I have to wonder and be thankful that my kids have not fallen into this trap. I have a niece (or at least my good wife has a niece, if we follow blood lines and the legal definition of niece ) who has fallen into the drug world. She periodically dusts herself off and tries to come back but it does not appear to be possible. She ha sno self esteem and seems to lack the mental capacity of a normal adult. I have to think that she has fried enough brain cells to make it impossible for her to ever be normal. A sad thing as she is a pretty girl and could have had the world by the tail if she had just stayed away from the crack. We assume one day we will hear that she is dead. I assume it will not be because she was shot during a home invasion but assume it will either be an overdose or that she was beaten to death by some of the scumbags she hangs out with whenever she falls off the wagon. I have watched her grow up since she was born and cannot fault her mother. Her father has not been in the picture since she was an toddler. He was a hopeless alcoholic the last time I saw him which is a long while back. When she ends up dead, her mother is going to be very upset. I suggest it is likely that the young man shot in this incident has a mother somewhere who may well feel the same. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
As for the young man who defended himself and protected his sister. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Live is about making choices, he choose to live and have his sister live. All choices we make are not easy ones. He made a hard one. As for the young men who invaded the home, armed, with intent to do harm. They also had the ability to make both good and bad choices, all the way to the end. They made the choices they did and reaped the rewards of them. Unfortunately, when an individual makes bad choices it often impacts others. In this case, their own families. Those families now have to make choices about how to deal with the bad choices the young men made. In this case, it involves a funeral rather than how to visit them in jail, however, actions always have results. Contrary to present feel good self esteem teaching, in the real world you are held accountable for your actions. Grant... AZ On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I have to say this is a sad commentary in many ways. We have to feel sorry for the folks who were invaded by hoodlums and feel sorry for the poor kid who felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself but no one has yet commented on the kid who was killed or his family etc. One has to wonder why someone ends up in a scenario like this. Most of us are not born to a life of crime. Some may be trained by parents who are as bad or worse than the kids end up but sometimes the parents are law abiding citizens who must be wondering how and where they went wrong. Illegal Drugs are a likely issue in something like this. One wonders why some people fall victim to this sort of thing and others do not. I have to wonder and be thankful that my kids have not fallen into this trap. I have a niece (or at least my good wife has a niece, if we follow blood lines and the legal definition of niece ) who has fallen into the drug world. She periodically dusts herself off and tries to come back but it does not appear to be possible. She ha sno self esteem and seems to lack the mental capacity of a normal adult. I have to think that she has fried enough brain cells to make it impossible for her to ever be normal. A sad thing as she is a pretty girl and could have had the world by the tail if she had just stayed away from the crack. We assume one day we will hear that she is dead. I assume it will not be because she was shot during a home invasion but assume it will either be an overdose or that she was beaten to death by some of the scumbags she hangs out with whenever she falls off the wagon. I have watched her grow up since she was born and cannot fault her mother. Her father has not been in the picture since she was an toddler. He was a hopeless alcoholic the last time I saw him which is a long while back. When she ends up dead, her mother is going to be very upset. I suggest it is likely that the young man shot in this incident has a mother somewhere who may well feel the same. Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
It saddens me deeply, too. It all starts on Mammy and Daddy's laps and at their knees and, in too many cases, lack thereof. Wilton - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender I have a cousin who grew older to become a basic dumbass, thief and such, spent some time in the Big House, but his brother is an upstanding guy. Given the same parents and upbringing, I have been struggling to determine what causes such differences. I think a lot of it is the culture a kid grows up in (includes the family and community culture) but I think genetics (and maybe illnesses one gets growing up) plays a strong role too. Some get dealt some genes that disposes them to behaviors or addictions through mental and physical (which also includes the organic aspect of mental) differences from others who do not do such things. And some of it is just they decide to be the way they are in spite of knowing better. But mostly I think the kinds of guys we have been discussing are basically a product of a culture that does not see such behavior as being particularly bad, or good productive behavior as being, well, good and productive. Parents have a lot to do with that, but their peers and community shape it a lot too. In some ways I feel justice is done when a perp gets immediate punishment, but I am also saddened by the loss of someone who could have been better if family, friends, or community could have steered him better. But, Darwin lives... --R On 12/30/11 4:36 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: I have to say this is a sad commentary in many ways. We have to feel sorry for the folks who were invaded by hoodlums and feel sorry for the poor kid who felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself but no one has yet commented on the kid who was killed or his family etc. One has to wonder why someone ends up in a scenario like this. Most of us are not born to a life of crime. Some may be trained by parents who are as bad or worse than the kids end up but sometimes the parents are law abiding citizens who must be wondering how and where they went wrong. Illegal Drugs are a likely issue in something like this. One wonders why some people fall victim to this sort of thing and others do not. I have to wonder and be thankful that my kids have not fallen into this trap. I have a niece (or at least my good wife has a niece, if we follow blood lines and the legal definition of niece ) who has fallen into the drug world. She periodically dusts herself off and tries to come back but it does not appear to be possible. She ha sno self esteem and seems to lack the mental capacity of a normal adult. I have to think that she has fried enough brain cells to make it impossible for her to ever be normal. A sad thing as she is a pretty girl and could have had the world by the tail if she had just stayed away from the crack. We assume one day we will hear that she is dead. I assume it will not be because she was shot during a home invasion but assume it will either be an overdose or that she was beaten to death by some of the scumbags she hangs out with whenever she falls off the wagon. I have watched her grow up since she was born and cannot fault her mother. Her father has not been in the picture since she was an toddler. He was a hopeless alcoholic the last time I saw him which is a long while back. When she ends up dead, her mother is going to be very upset. I suggest it is likely that the young man shot in this incident has a mother somewhere who may well feel the same. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com writes: Too bad he didn't get a mortal shot off at a second one. But Hooray! It is nice when Justice is swift. And, the nephew can't be persecuted, because he is a minor. Most jurisdictions would haul in the nephew and treat him like a criminal. Earlier this week, in Indianapolis, a Kroger manager shot and killed a man who was in the process of robbing the store and holding another employee at gunpoint. According to news reports, there are no plans to charge the manager with any crime, though it's uncertain whether he will face any consequences from Kroger for violating their weapons policy. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Good parenting is unquestionably important, but I think Rich is right, some people are just bad apples, just as some are born with physical defects. Likewise sometimes the most caring, unselfish people come out of very difficult or unhappy childhoods. It must be very difficult for the parents if one of their kids turns out to be a criminal or an addict. I think if such a son or daughter is to have any chance of changing or at least reigning in his/her criminal or self-destructive tendencies it's important that the parents do not enable that behavior out of sympathy, and it's important for their own sanity to find a way to accept that adult children make their own choices and that as adults they have to live with the consequences. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com writes: It saddens me deeply, too. It all starts on Mammy and Daddy's laps and at their knees and, in too many cases, lack thereof. Wilton - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender I have a cousin who grew older to become a basic dumbass, thief and such, spent some time in the Big House, but his brother is an upstanding guy. Given the same parents and upbringing, I have been struggling to determine what causes such differences. I think a lot of it is the culture a kid grows up in (includes the family and community culture) but I think genetics (and maybe illnesses one gets growing up) plays a strong role too. Some get dealt some genes that disposes them to behaviors or addictions through mental and physical (which also includes the organic aspect of mental) differences from others who do not do such things. And some of it is just they decide to be the way they are in spite of knowing better. But mostly I think the kinds of guys we have been discussing are basically a product of a culture that does not see such behavior as being particularly bad, or good productive behavior as being, well, good and productive. Parents have a lot to do with that, but their peers and community shape it a lot too. In some ways I feel justice is done when a perp gets immediate punishment, but I am also saddened by the loss of someone who could have been better if family, friends, or community could have steered him better. But, Darwin lives... --R On 12/30/11 4:36 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: I have to say this is a sad commentary in many ways. We have to feel sorry for the folks who were invaded by hoodlums and feel sorry for the poor kid who felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself but no one has yet commented on the kid who was killed or his family etc. One has to wonder why someone ends up in a scenario like this. Most of us are not born to a life of crime. Some may be trained by parents who are as bad or worse than the kids end up but sometimes the parents are law abiding citizens who must be wondering how and where they went wrong. Illegal Drugs are a likely issue in something like this. One wonders why some people fall victim to this sort of thing and others do not. I have to wonder and be thankful that my kids have not fallen into this trap. I have a niece (or at least my good wife has a niece, if we follow blood lines and the legal definition of niece ) who has fallen into the drug world. She periodically dusts herself off and tries to come back but it does not appear to be possible. She ha sno self esteem and seems to lack the mental capacity of a normal adult. I have to think that she has fried enough brain cells to make it impossible for her to ever be normal. A sad thing as she is a pretty girl and could have had the world by the tail if she had just stayed away from the crack. We assume one day we will hear that she is dead. I assume it will not be because she was shot during a home invasion but assume it will either be an overdose or that she was beaten to death by some of the scumbags she hangs out with whenever she falls off the wagon. I have watched her grow up since she was born and cannot fault her mother. Her father has not been in the picture since she was an toddler. He was a hopeless alcoholic the last time I saw him which is a long while back. When she ends up dead, her mother is going to be very upset. I suggest it is likely that the young man shot in this incident has a mother somewhere who may well feel the same. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away. He then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and emptied that one into the guy as well. I think the guy should have got a medal. On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida. I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space. After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.) Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Sure we have all made our mistakes and might say There but for the grace of God... People should be ready to give a second and third chance when someone transgresses. However, when someone sets out to commit a violent crime or break in to someone's home it's time to put a stop to that real quick. Obviously our legal system the way things are today is not very effective at doing that. I am sure it is very hard on the families when they lose a loved one to a citizen defending himself or his home. That is very sad. But life is all about making the right or the wrong choice. Often people make the wrong choice and create a very poor outcome for those close to them. Ultimately the responsibility for that poor outcome rests on the shoulders of the one who made the wrong choice. Ultimately no matter what the genetics, environment, family life, illnesses, bad luck etc, it is all about arriving at a decision point and making a very wrong choice. That is the nature of being a human. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 2:47 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender I have a cousin who grew older to become a basic dumbass, thief and such, spent some time in the Big House, but his brother is an upstanding guy. Given the same parents and upbringing, I have been struggling to determine what causes such differences. I think a lot of it is the culture a kid grows up in (includes the family and community culture) but I think genetics (and maybe illnesses one gets growing up) plays a strong role too. Some get dealt some genes that disposes them to behaviors or addictions through mental and physical (which also includes the organic aspect of mental) differences from others who do not do such things. And some of it is just they decide to be the way they are in spite of knowing better. But mostly I think the kinds of guys we have been discussing are basically a product of a culture that does not see such behavior as being particularly bad, or good productive behavior as being, well, good and productive. Parents have a lot to do with that, but their peers and community shape it a lot too. In some ways I feel justice is done when a perp gets immediate punishment, but I am also saddened by the loss of someone who could have been better if family, friends, or community could have steered him better. But, Darwin lives... --R On 12/30/11 4:36 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: I have to say this is a sad commentary in many ways. We have to feel sorry for the folks who were invaded by hoodlums and feel sorry for the poor kid who felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself but no one has yet commented on the kid who was killed or his family etc. One has to wonder why someone ends up in a scenario like this. Most of us are not born to a life of crime. Some may be trained by parents who are as bad or worse than the kids end up but sometimes the parents are law abiding citizens who must be wondering how and where they went wrong. Illegal Drugs are a likely issue in something like this. One wonders why some people fall victim to this sort of thing and others do not. I have to wonder and be thankful that my kids have not fallen into this trap. I have a niece (or at least my good wife has a niece, if we follow blood lines and the legal definition of niece ) who has fallen into the drug world. She periodically dusts herself off and tries to come back but it does not appear to be possible. She ha sno self esteem and seems to lack the mental capacity of a normal adult. I have to think that she has fried enough brain cells to make it impossible for her to ever be normal. A sad thing as she is a pretty girl and could have had the world by the tail if she had just stayed away from the crack. We assume one day we will hear that she is dead. I assume it will not be because she was shot during a home invasion but assume it will either be an overdose or that she was beaten to death by some of the scumbags she hangs out with whenever she falls off the wagon. I have watched her grow up since she was born and cannot fault her mother. Her father has not been in the picture since she was an toddler. He was a hopeless alcoholic the last time I saw him which is a long while back. When she ends up dead, her mother is going to be very upset. I suggest it is likely that the young man shot in this incident has a mother somewhere who may well feel the same. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Well take me for example, I am a fine upstanding person, in management for my employer, take care of my kids, dont drink, smoke, etc. My brother on the other hand is a drunk, smokes pot, sucks all the money he can out of my parents, my father being a disabled vet. He has 3 kids from 2 different women who he does not pay child support for. Has not done any hard time but has had several DUI and that sort of thing. He moved down here from Alaska, last year, year before something like that. Lived with my dad for a year and a half, never paid a dime to him, was sucking unemployement even though he quit his job. Still cant figure out that one. Did pay for food, any of the bills, nothing. My mother paid to fly his kids down here for a visit from alaska, and while they were here he got my dad to pay for them a little mini vacation for several days in OKC. All that time living for free, getting money he did not earn etc. Only difference in our raising is he went to live with mom when he was 8 and I was 12 at the time and went to live with my dad. On 12/30/2011 4:47 PM, Rich Thomas wrote: I have a cousin who grew older to become a basic dumbass, thief and such, spent some time in the Big House, but his brother is an upstanding guy. Given the same parents and upbringing, I have been struggling to determine what causes such differences. I think a lot of it is the culture a kid grows up in (includes the family and community culture) but I think genetics (and maybe illnesses one gets growing up) plays a strong role too. Some get dealt some genes that disposes them to behaviors or addictions through mental and physical (which also includes the organic aspect of mental) differences from others who do not do such things. And some of it is just they decide to be the way they are in spite of knowing better. But mostly I think the kinds of guys we have been discussing are basically a product of a culture that does not see such behavior as being particularly bad, or good productive behavior as being, well, good and productive. Parents have a lot to do with that, but their peers and community shape it a lot too. In some ways I feel justice is done when a perp gets immediate punishment, but I am also saddened by the loss of someone who could have been better if family, friends, or community could have steered him better. But, Darwin lives... --R On 12/30/11 4:36 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: I have to say this is a sad commentary in many ways. We have to feel sorry for the folks who were invaded by hoodlums and feel sorry for the poor kid who felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself but no one has yet commented on the kid who was killed or his family etc. One has to wonder why someone ends up in a scenario like this. Most of us are not born to a life of crime. Some may be trained by parents who are as bad or worse than the kids end up but sometimes the parents are law abiding citizens who must be wondering how and where they went wrong. Illegal Drugs are a likely issue in something like this. One wonders why some people fall victim to this sort of thing and others do not. I have to wonder and be thankful that my kids have not fallen into this trap. I have a niece (or at least my good wife has a niece, if we follow blood lines and the legal definition of niece ) who has fallen into the drug world. She periodically dusts herself off and tries to come back but it does not appear to be possible. She ha sno self esteem and seems to lack the mental capacity of a normal adult. I have to think that she has fried enough brain cells to make it impossible for her to ever be normal. A sad thing as she is a pretty girl and could have had the world by the tail if she had just stayed away from the crack. We assume one day we will hear that she is dead. I assume it will not be because she was shot during a home invasion but assume it will either be an overdose or that she was beaten to death by some of the scumbags she hangs out with whenever she falls off the wagon. I have watched her grow up since she was born and cannot fault her mother. Her father has not been in the picture since she was an toddler. He was a hopeless alcoholic the last time I saw him which is a long while back. When she ends up dead, her mother is going to be very upset. I suggest it is likely that the young man shot in this incident has a mother somewhere who may well feel the same. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked. The right to defend laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves against harm. Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his neighborhood. He went out, waving a gun to threaten them. Another neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young daughter, confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the man right in front of his daughter. This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched, as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude claimed he felt threatened by the guy. I don't think the judge was happy about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a choice. Nothing is perfect, folks... Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away. He then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and emptied that one into the guy as well. I think the guy should have got a medal. On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida. I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space. After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.) Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
East side of town, I'll bet. Everybody on the Southside (and Westside) packs. I grew up on the Southside, and it was understood that a lot of people carried guns. Even when I was living there a couple of years ago it was not uncommon to see people wearing sidearms in public, like at Wallyworld and restaurants. Just think of the ones who have concealed carry permits I'll bet that Kroger gets rid of him. Too bad - more people like him and there would be a lot fewer crimes like this, I'll bet. Some urban dweller robbed a small convenience store in St. Petersburg a couple of nights ago and blew the counter person away, as I understand it. Downtown St. Pete is probably one of the rougher places around here. Dan no longer in Indy and glad On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:06 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Earlier this week, in Indianapolis, a Kroger manager shot and killed a man who was in the process of robbing the store and holding another employee at gunpoint. According to news reports, there are no plans to charge the manager with any crime, though it's uncertain whether he will face any consequences from Kroger for violating their weapons policy. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Also, when seconds count, locked up guns do not good. Some may think I am wrong, but I do not believe in gun locks and keeping guns locked up around the house. I used to have loaded guns in about every room, but I have scaled it back with 3 year old in the house and only keep a loaded .357 magnum hidden by my bed. I believe in education about guns, not gun locks. The other 2 kids were taught about guns when they were about 4-6 years old, not how to use them, but what they will do and not to touch them. They never did try to mess with them or show any interest in trying to play with them. I think its when you keep them a mystery kids try to mess with them. In another year will start showing the young one about guns. On 12/30/2011 4:47 PM, G Mann wrote: As for the young man who defended himself and protected his sister. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Live is about making choices, he choose to live and have his sister live. All choices we make are not easy ones. He made a hard one. As for the young men who invaded the home, armed, with intent to do harm. They also had the ability to make both good and bad choices, all the way to the end. They made the choices they did and reaped the rewards of them. Unfortunately, when an individual makes bad choices it often impacts others. In this case, their own families. Those families now have to make choices about how to deal with the bad choices the young men made. In this case, it involves a funeral rather than how to visit them in jail, however, actions always have results. Contrary to present feel good self esteem teaching, in the real world you are held accountable for your actions. Grant... AZ On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Randy Bennellrbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I have to say this is a sad commentary in many ways. We have to feel sorry for the folks who were invaded by hoodlums and feel sorry for the poor kid who felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself but no one has yet commented on the kid who was killed or his family etc. One has to wonder why someone ends up in a scenario like this. Most of us are not born to a life of crime. Some may be trained by parents who are as bad or worse than the kids end up but sometimes the parents are law abiding citizens who must be wondering how and where they went wrong. Illegal Drugs are a likely issue in something like this. One wonders why some people fall victim to this sort of thing and others do not. I have to wonder and be thankful that my kids have not fallen into this trap. I have a niece (or at least my good wife has a niece, if we follow blood lines and the legal definition of niece ) who has fallen into the drug world. She periodically dusts herself off and tries to come back but it does not appear to be possible. She ha sno self esteem and seems to lack the mental capacity of a normal adult. I have to think that she has fried enough brain cells to make it impossible for her to ever be normal. A sad thing as she is a pretty girl and could have had the world by the tail if she had just stayed away from the crack. We assume one day we will hear that she is dead. I assume it will not be because she was shot during a home invasion but assume it will either be an overdose or that she was beaten to death by some of the scumbags she hangs out with whenever she falls off the wagon. I have watched her grow up since she was born and cannot fault her mother. Her father has not been in the picture since she was an toddler. He was a hopeless alcoholic the last time I saw him which is a long while back. When she ends up dead, her mother is going to be very upset. I suggest it is likely that the young man shot in this incident has a mother somewhere who may well feel the same. Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
The cops around here will tell you if you shoot somebody on your property and they are on your front porch, just please drag them inside before calling the cops. On 12/30/2011 5:45 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Too bad he didn't get a mortal shot off at a second one. But Hooray! It is nice when Justice is swift. And, the nephew can't be persecuted, because he is a minor. Most jurisdictions would haul in the nephew and treat him like a criminal. Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Knowing Kroger, he will probably be fired. On 12/30/2011 6:06 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Dieselhead126die...@gmail.com writes: Too bad he didn't get a mortal shot off at a second one. But Hooray! It is nice when Justice is swift. And, the nephew can't be persecuted, because he is a minor. Most jurisdictions would haul in the nephew and treat him like a criminal. Earlier this week, in Indianapolis, a Kroger manager shot and killed a man who was in the process of robbing the store and holding another employee at gunpoint. According to news reports, there are no plans to charge the manager with any crime, though it's uncertain whether he will face any consequences from Kroger for violating their weapons policy. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I always tell myself if I had a kid who did so and so I would have no issue just cutting them off and not having anything to do with them. In reality, maybe is not so easy? On 12/30/2011 6:16 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Good parenting is unquestionably important, but I think Rich is right, some people are just bad apples, just as some are born with physical defects. Likewise sometimes the most caring, unselfish people come out of very difficult or unhappy childhoods. It must be very difficult for the parents if one of their kids turns out to be a criminal or an addict. I think if such a son or daughter is to have any chance of changing or at least reigning in his/her criminal or self-destructive tendencies it's important that the parents do not enable that behavior out of sympathy, and it's important for their own sanity to find a way to accept that adult children make their own choices and that as adults they have to live with the consequences. WILTONwilt...@nc.rr.com writes: It saddens me deeply, too. It all starts on Mammy and Daddy's laps and at their knees and, in too many cases, lack thereof. Wilton - Original Message - From: Rich Thomasrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender I have a cousin who grew older to become a basic dumbass, thief and such, spent some time in the Big House, but his brother is an upstanding guy. Given the same parents and upbringing, I have been struggling to determine what causes such differences. I think a lot of it is the culture a kid grows up in (includes the family and community culture) but I think genetics (and maybe illnesses one gets growing up) plays a strong role too. Some get dealt some genes that disposes them to behaviors or addictions through mental and physical (which also includes the organic aspect of mental) differences from others who do not do such things. And some of it is just they decide to be the way they are in spite of knowing better. But mostly I think the kinds of guys we have been discussing are basically a product of a culture that does not see such behavior as being particularly bad, or good productive behavior as being, well, good and productive. Parents have a lot to do with that, but their peers and community shape it a lot too. In some ways I feel justice is done when a perp gets immediate punishment, but I am also saddened by the loss of someone who could have been better if family, friends, or community could have steered him better. But, Darwin lives... --R On 12/30/11 4:36 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: I have to say this is a sad commentary in many ways. We have to feel sorry for the folks who were invaded by hoodlums and feel sorry for the poor kid who felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself but no one has yet commented on the kid who was killed or his family etc. One has to wonder why someone ends up in a scenario like this. Most of us are not born to a life of crime. Some may be trained by parents who are as bad or worse than the kids end up but sometimes the parents are law abiding citizens who must be wondering how and where they went wrong. Illegal Drugs are a likely issue in something like this. One wonders why some people fall victim to this sort of thing and others do not. I have to wonder and be thankful that my kids have not fallen into this trap. I have a niece (or at least my good wife has a niece, if we follow blood lines and the legal definition of niece ) who has fallen into the drug world. She periodically dusts herself off and tries to come back but it does not appear to be possible. She ha sno self esteem and seems to lack the mental capacity of a normal adult. I have to think that she has fried enough brain cells to make it impossible for her to ever be normal. A sad thing as she is a pretty girl and could have had the world by the tail if she had just stayed away from the crack. We assume one day we will hear that she is dead. I assume it will not be because she was shot during a home invasion but assume it will either be an overdose or that she was beaten to death by some of the scumbags she hangs out with whenever she falls off the wagon. I have watched her grow up since she was born and cannot fault her mother. Her father has not been in the picture since she was an toddler. He was a hopeless alcoholic the last time I saw him which is a long while back. When she ends up dead, her mother is going to be very upset. I suggest it is likely that the young man shot in this incident has a mother somewhere who may well feel the same. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
It must be very difficult for the parents if one of their kids turns out to be a criminal or an addict. A guy I know had a 40ish son who was both. He tried and tried to get his son to go to work, keep a job, and fly right. The last time the son was out, he worked a few days, peddled drugs, took a rap for stealing guns (not sure if he was really involved or was just used as the patsy. That time he got sent up to the fed pen and won't be out anytime soon. That just about broke his dad's heart. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in jail here at all. Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem. For some reason they decided to make an example out of this guy. People are really pissed about it around here for sure. Here is the story http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802 And video of the crime. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFg On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked. The right to defend laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves against harm. Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his neighborhood. He went out, waving a gun to threaten them. Another neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young daughter, confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the man right in front of his daughter. This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched, as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude claimed he felt threatened by the guy. I don't think the judge was happy about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a choice. Nothing is perfect, folks... Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away. He then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and emptied that one into the guy as well. I think the guy should have got a medal. On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida. I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space. After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.) Dan On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote: Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied. Turns out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several armed intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation. http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net writes: Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in jail here at all. Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem. For some reason they decided to make an example out of this guy. People are really pissed about it around here for sure. Probably had to do with emptying two clips into the guy. Abuse of a corpse or some such crime? Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Also, when seconds count, locked up guns do not good. Some may think I am wrong, but I do not believe in gun locks and keeping guns locked up around the house. I used to have loaded guns in about every room, but I have scaled it back with 3 year old in the house and only keep a loaded .357 magnum hidden by my bed. I believe in education about guns, not gun locks. The other 2 kids were taught about guns when they were about 4-6 years old, not how to use them, but what they will do and not to touch them. They never did try to mess with them or show any interest in trying to play with them. I think its when you keep them a mystery kids try to mess with them. In another year will start showing the young one about guns. Back in the days when housed didn't have closets, many a six shooter was loaded and ready on top of the wardrobe. My grandpa kept his silver dollars up there too, behind the fascia ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
I am sure it is very hard on the families when they lose a loved one to a citizen defending himself or his home. That is very sad. But life is all about making the right or the wrong choice. I am more concerned about the families who have someone shot or otherwise killed by a repeat offender. That especially stinks when the offender walks out of court and thumbs his nose (so to speak) at the family. Equally sick is having someone killed by an illegal alien, and the illegal walks, or is sent out of the country and is back inside before the escorts get home. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
My granddaddy kept a loaded 12g twice barrel behind the bedroom door, and if any of us grandkids as much as looked at it sideways he would tan our hides and if his kids (our parents) said something he would threaten to tan theirs too. We understood that shotgun was for taking care of bidness, and it was not our bidness. He was somewhat intolerant of anyone pilfering around the homestead, especially if it was after dark, and said person was likely to end up with a load of bird shot in their person. I do believe he let off a few rounds at various times for the benefit of those who did not have the benefit of understanding about such bidness. --R On 12/30/11 8:34 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Also, when seconds count, locked up guns do not good. Some may think I am wrong, but I do not believe in gun locks and keeping guns locked up around the house. I used to have loaded guns in about every room, but I have scaled it back with 3 year old in the house and only keep a loaded .357 magnum hidden by my bed. I believe in education about guns, not gun locks. The other 2 kids were taught about guns when they were about 4-6 years old, not how to use them, but what they will do and not to touch them. They never did try to mess with them or show any interest in trying to play with them. I think its when you keep them a mystery kids try to mess with them. In another year will start showing the young one about guns. Back in the days when housed didn't have closets, many a six shooter was loaded and ready on top of the wardrobe. My grandpa kept his silver dollars up there too, behind the fascia ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net writes: He was somewhat intolerant of anyone pilfering around the homestead, especially if it was after dark, and said person was likely to end up with a load of bird shot in their person. I do believe he let off a few rounds at various times for the benefit of those who did not have the benefit of understanding about such bidness. Reminds me of a parody I heard of the song Signs... and the sign said anybody caught trespassing would be shot on sight. So I jumped the fence and I yelled at the house 'Hey! What gives you the...' BANG!!! Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net writes: He was somewhat intolerant of anyone pilfering around the homestead, especially if it was after dark, and said person was likely to end up with a load of bird shot in their person. I do believe he let off a few rounds at various times for the benefit of those who did not have the benefit of understanding about such bidness. Reminds me of a parody I heard of the song Signs... and the sign said anybody caught trespassing would be shot on sight. So I jumped the fence and I yelled at the house 'Hey! What gives you the...' BANG!!! Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD LOL That is great. I might change it to: and the sign said anybody caught trespassing would be shot on sight. So I jumped the fence and I yelled at the house 'Hey! What gives you the...' BA-BOOM! (as in 2 barrels of a 12 Ga side by side going off in close sequence.) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
