Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

I have a BatteryMINDer 2012. It will charge/desulphate multiple batteries, 
according to the instructions.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:14:06 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Craig,  
> I ordered two 1510s from Amazon.  I plan to use one for general
> purposes (like my tractor or seldom run 300SD) and build the other into
> the Generac.  I say "build in" because there is no 110v outlet on/in
> the actual generator case and I'll need to disconnect the stock
> charger.  I'd like to locate the BatteryMINDer where I can still see
> the LED lights but that may not be possible.  Because I'm mainly doing
> maintenance float charging of flooded batteries (and I have bigger
> chargers), I didn't see a need for a higher output model.

You will want to locate the BatteryMINDer away from the battery so it
isn't exposed to the acid vapors.

You can use extension cables on the 1510's output. BatteryMINDer offers:
 DCE12: DC Extension Cable - 12ft. 
 DCE25: DC Extension Cable - 25ft.

That way, the 1510 can be plugged into a wall receptacle and the output
extended to the battery.


> Thanks for the tip. Scott

You're welcome.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Craig,  
I ordered two 1510s from Amazon.  I plan to use one for general purposes (like 
my tractor or seldom run 300SD) and build the other into the Generac.  I say 
"build in" because there is no 110v outlet on/in the actual generator case and 
I'll need to disconnect the stock charger.  I'd like to locate the 
BatteryMINDer where I can still see the LED lights but that may not be 
possible.  Because I'm mainly doing maintenance float charging of flooded 
batteries (and I have bigger chargers), I didn't see a need for a higher output 
 model.  Thanks for the tip.
Scott

> -Original Message-
> From:  Craig via Mercedes
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 11:56 PM
> 
> On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 23:46:19 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, Craig.  I just ordered a couple.  Scott
> 
> What models?
> 
> I have a 12248 and a 1510.
> 
> 
> Craig


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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

To me, a standby generator should just sit there and provide power if the 
lights go out.  I'm OK with annual battery checks and oil/filter changes (even 
though the oil looks new) but monthly battery maintenance seems to go counter 
to my concept of a standby generator.  That would be more work than manually 
starting the thing.  On the other hand, I don't mind paying $50 for a new 
battery every four years or so and I don't mind paying a similar amount for a 
better charger if it will make batteries last longer.  In the meantime. I just 
listen every Monday afternoon to be sure it starts to run its weekly self-test.

Using a different type of battery was a consideration.  Most of what I've read 
says flooded batteries (if maintained) last as long as AGMs or gell.  The 
battery compartment is small (group 26R) so I can't use just any battery.  But 
my 2006 tractor (Diesel) still has the original NAPA (AGM I think) battery and 
it's still going strong even though it's been fully discharged a couple of 
times.  On the other hand, sealed lead-acid batteries in my several UPS systems 
don't seem to last particularly long.  So I was curious if better battery 
technology would be a good option.  For now, I'll find a way to put a 
BatteryMINDer in the generator and disconnect the stock charger. 

> -Original Message-
> From: G Mann 
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 2:20 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: G Mann <g2ma...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset
> 
> In the original post, I thought I read the battery simply ran low on water,
> which caused ultimate failure.
> 
> Simple, to me, solution is to put a check list item to check battery water
> level once a month and keep it / them topped off with distilled water.
> 
> I do it with the solar battery bank. If I don't, I get to buy new batteries.
> Trying to put charge in a battery low on fluid is the kiss of pending
> death... for batteries.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 23:46:19 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Thanks, Craig.  I just ordered a couple.  Scott

What models?

I have a 12248 and a 1510.


Craig


> > -Original Message-
> > From:  Craig via Mercedes
> > 
> > On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:42:26 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > > Maybe a dedicated float charger (like BatteryNINDer) would give
> > > better battery life?
> > 
> > Yes.
> > 
> > 
> > Craig
> > 
> > ___
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 




Craig

--
Present: '82 240D/3.0   Bluebell   285 kmi (Still need to fix leaking
oil pressure gauge and do
something about the failed
hood paint and attend to the
headlight switch -- and now I
need to do something about the
broken left rear trailing arm)
 '89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
 the Big Red Van)

Past:'95 E320   Sebastian  135 kmi   RIP
 '94 E420   Oskar  127 kmi   RIP
 '86 190E/2.3
 '72 220/8
 '64 190Dc  Emma
 '72 220D/8 Herman 186 kmi

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Thanks, Craig.  I just ordered a couple.  Scott

> -Original Message-
> From:  Craig via Mercedes
> 
> On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:42:26 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> > Maybe a dedicated float charger (like BatteryNINDer) would give better
> > battery life?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___


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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On April 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> In the original post, I thought I read the battery simply ran low on water,
> which caused ultimate failure.
> 
> Simple, to me, solution is to put a check list item to check battery water
> level once a month and keep it / them topped off with distilled water.

The disadvantage to that is that he also mentioned rust forming near the 
battery. 
Better to keep the voltage below the gas point than to be continually adding 
water. 
But how to achieve that? Is it easy to disable the charging circuit without 
disabling any other 12v function, like starting the darn thing?
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[G Mann via Mercedes]

In the original post, I thought I read the battery simply ran low on water,
which caused ultimate failure.

Simple, to me, solution is to put a check list item to check battery water
level once a month and keep it / them topped off with distilled water.

I do it with the solar battery bank. If I don't, I get to buy new
batteries. Trying to put charge in a battery low on fluid is the kiss of
pending death... for batteries.


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:42:26 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > Craig:  I have a "Battery Tender" that I use for various jobs.  Is the
> > BatteryMINDer different or better?
>
> The BatteryMINDer is different, and, at least from my research, better.
> That's why I have two of them and no Battery Tenders.
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:42:26 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Craig:  I have a "Battery Tender" that I use for various jobs.  Is the
> BatteryMINDer different or better?

The BatteryMINDer is different, and, at least from my research, better.
That's why I have two of them and no Battery Tenders.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:42:26 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Maybe a dedicated float charger (like BatteryNINDer) would give better
> battery life?

Yes.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Craig:  I have a "Battery Tender" that I use for various jobs.  Is the 
BatteryMINDer different or better?

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Craig via Mercedes
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 10:50 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Craig <diese...@pisquared.net>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset
> 
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 21:30:07 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > The generator gets commercial power (so it knows when to turn on) and
> > that runs an integral charger.  Maybe I should replace it with a tender?
> 
> Yes, that's is exactly what I said, specifying the specific brand 
> BatteryMINDer.
> 
> 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Craig via Mercedes
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 9:35 AM
> > > To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > > Cc: Craig <diese...@pisquared.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset
> > >
> > > On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:25:40 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
> > > <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Fuel type was a main consideration when I installed a standby
> > > > generator and I went with LP (propane) as natural gas isn't
> > > > available here.  I have a 500 gal underground tank.  As far as I
> > > > know, there are no long-term storage issues with LP (unlike
> > > > gasoline and Diesel, to a lesser extent).  My generator starts
> > > > itself and runs for about 12 minutes each week.  After 11 years,
> > > > the case has started to rust near the battery and exhaust exit but
> > > > maintenance has been minimal: oil/filter changes a new battery
> > > > (flooded lead acid) every few years. I have wondered if a gel/AGM
> > > > battery would be a good investment?
> > >
> > > Perhaps a better investment would be a BatteryMINDer
> > > charger/maintainer.
> > >
> > >
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> --
> Present: '82 240D/3.0   Bluebell   285 kmi (Still need to fix leaking
> oil pressure gauge and do
> something about the failed
> hood paint and attend to the
>   headlight switch -- and now I
> need to do something about the
> broken left rear trailing arm)
>  '89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
>  the Big Red Van)
> 
> Past:'95 E320   Sebastian  135 kmi   RIP
>  '94 E420   Oskar  127 kmi   RIP
>  '86 190E/2.3
>  '72 220/8
>  '64 190Dc  Emma
>  '72 220D/8 Herman 186 kmi
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

It is a Generac 15KW unit with integral control logic including a charger.  The 
charger runs all the time as far as I know.  I can't comment on the quality of 
that charger except the little group 26 flooded batteries boil off electrolyte 
and last 3-4 years; so maybe it overcharges.  Maybe a dedicated float charger 
(like BatteryNINDer) would give better battery life?

> -Original Message---batteries --
> From:  Randy Bennell via Mercedes
> 
> Does the generator setup only charge when the generator fires up to test
> itself?
> Or is there a built-in tender?
> If the latter, I doubt you need to change anything.
> 
> RB
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Curt - I agree, we each need our safe.
Power companies are in the biz of $$ like any biz.  They also have
oversold their abilities and make us pay for that.  Maybe we should
lower our expectations of all things?  So... some days we have power,
some days not.  i.e. use the spool-up time necessary that -D mentions
- we say "eh" and do without.  Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or
do without.  We can do without bunches.
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[OK Don via Mercedes]

That's hard to believe, given the death grip big oil has on the OK
government. Not saying it's not true, just hard to believe.

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The deal here is the state is paying them big incentives to build them
> here. There is a movement going on to stop it and use the money for school
> etc.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 27, 2017, at 3:05 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Out here, the power companies are putting up wind turbine generators at a
> > furiuos rate. They don't seem to be able to get enough of them. We still
> > see lines of trucks hauling blades up I-35 weekly, probably from Houston.
> > There is some economic reason for them to be making this investment. They
> > are still preaching at us to reduce our usage, giving away LED bulbs
> with a
> > home energy audit, encouraging time of use billing to reduce the summer
> > afternoon load, etc. Between the wind generation and the austerity on
> > summer afternoons, they are avoiding building another coal/steam plant.
> >
> > Yes, you will always need an on demand generating source to buffer the
> > lolls in "green" production - you need both. It's not an all or nothing
> > situation.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:19 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Along those same lines as Craig says….
> >>
> >> Most people don’t grasp what goes on behind the scenes at a major
> utility
> >> when it comes to power production.  The utility has to have generating
> >> capacity ready and on line for the demand.  If they don’t, they have to
> >> purchase power from one of their fellow utilities through inter-local
> >> agreements, which is very expensive.
> >>
> >> Add to this the need to have large steam or gas turbines up and running
> >> for peak times.  From a cold start it can take a steam turbine as much
> as
> >> 15-18 hours to be up and on line to produce maximum power.  That means
> in
> >> the summer when everyone is going to turn on their AC at home in the
> >> afternoon the plant needs to be spooled up and ready to respond to that
> >> demand - they will need to have fired up that generator more than half a
> >> day in advance to be ready.
> >>
> >> And what happens if there’s a sudden cold snap?  That excess capacity
> can
> >> be sold off to other utilities who might need it, otherwise it’s
> >> effectively lost.
> >>
> >> This is why utilities pay very close attention to the weather, for
> >> example, as well as keeping very precise records to baseline their
> >> production requirements.  They have to be able to estimate the needs of
> >> their customers as closely as possible to run as efficiently as they
> can.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:58 PM, Craig via Mercedes  >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:02:00 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
>  Max wrote:
> > A solar powered version would be even better.
> 
>  OT - Call centers selling YouNameIt Power are using words like green,
>  wind, solar.
>  That seems nice, but isn't all the green power just wheeled over the
>  grid?  i.e. the electrons congregate along with coal and hydrocarbons
>  and all power is green mixed with green?
> >>>
> >>> Yup, that's how it works, if you mean green mixed with conventional.
> >>>
> >>> There currently is no storage on the grid: When demand increases, power
> >>> stations have to crank out more power; when demand increases, power
> >>> stations have to decrease the amount of power they are putting out.
> >>>
> >>> "Green" power is highly variable hour to hour. That appears to
> >>> conventional plants as a variable demand in addition to the variation
> >>> from actual demand.
> >>>
> >>> Until "green" power sources are required to have enough storage that
> they
> >>> can put out a constant amount continuously, they will have to be backed
> >>> up with conventional sources, some of which are just idling until the
> >>> "green" source drops out. Running a conventional power plant that way
> is
> >>> very inefficient and wasteful, and generates more carbon dioxide than
> >> just
> >>> having the conventional plant by itself, tarnishing the "green" of
> >>> "green" power sources.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Craig
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> 

Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

OK legislature just rescinded the tax break for wind energy.

http://www.upi.com/Oklahoma-to-end-tax-credits-for-wind-energy/3881492518764/

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The deal here is the state is paying them big incentives to build them
> here. There is a movement going on to stop it and use the money for school
> etc.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 27, 2017, at 3:05 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Out here, the power companies are putting up wind turbine generators at a
> > furiuos rate. They don't seem to be able to get enough of them. We still
> > see lines of trucks hauling blades up I-35 weekly, probably from Houston.
> > There is some economic reason for them to be making this investment. They
> > are still preaching at us to reduce our usage, giving away LED bulbs
> with a
> > home energy audit, encouraging time of use billing to reduce the summer
> > afternoon load, etc. Between the wind generation and the austerity on
> > summer afternoons, they are avoiding building another coal/steam plant.
> >
> > Yes, you will always need an on demand generating source to buffer the
> > lolls in "green" production - you need both. It's not an all or nothing
> > situation.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:19 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Along those same lines as Craig says….
> >>
> >> Most people don’t grasp what goes on behind the scenes at a major
> utility
> >> when it comes to power production.  The utility has to have generating
> >> capacity ready and on line for the demand.  If they don’t, they have to
> >> purchase power from one of their fellow utilities through inter-local
> >> agreements, which is very expensive.
> >>
> >> Add to this the need to have large steam or gas turbines up and running
> >> for peak times.  From a cold start it can take a steam turbine as much
> as
> >> 15-18 hours to be up and on line to produce maximum power.  That means
> in
> >> the summer when everyone is going to turn on their AC at home in the
> >> afternoon the plant needs to be spooled up and ready to respond to that
> >> demand - they will need to have fired up that generator more than half a
> >> day in advance to be ready.
> >>
> >> And what happens if there’s a sudden cold snap?  That excess capacity
> can
> >> be sold off to other utilities who might need it, otherwise it’s
> >> effectively lost.
> >>
> >> This is why utilities pay very close attention to the weather, for
> >> example, as well as keeping very precise records to baseline their
> >> production requirements.  They have to be able to estimate the needs of
> >> their customers as closely as possible to run as efficiently as they
> can.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:58 PM, Craig via Mercedes  >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:02:00 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
>  Max wrote:
> > A solar powered version would be even better.
> 
>  OT - Call centers selling YouNameIt Power are using words like green,
>  wind, solar.
>  That seems nice, but isn't all the green power just wheeled over the
>  grid?  i.e. the electrons congregate along with coal and hydrocarbons
>  and all power is green mixed with green?
> >>>
> >>> Yup, that's how it works, if you mean green mixed with conventional.
> >>>
> >>> There currently is no storage on the grid: When demand increases, power
> >>> stations have to crank out more power; when demand increases, power
> >>> stations have to decrease the amount of power they are putting out.
> >>>
> >>> "Green" power is highly variable hour to hour. That appears to
> >>> conventional plants as a variable demand in addition to the variation
> >>> from actual demand.
> >>>
> >>> Until "green" power sources are required to have enough storage that
> they
> >>> can put out a constant amount continuously, they will have to be backed
> >>> up with conventional sources, some of which are just idling until the
> >>> "green" source drops out. Running a conventional power plant that way
> is
> >>> very inefficient and wasteful, and generates more carbon dioxide than
> >> just
> >>> having the conventional plant by itself, tarnishing the "green" of
> >>> "green" power sources.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Craig
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> 

Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

The deal here is the state is paying them big incentives to build them here. 
There is a movement going on to stop it and use the money for school etc.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 27, 2017, at 3:05 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Out here, the power companies are putting up wind turbine generators at a
> furiuos rate. They don't seem to be able to get enough of them. We still
> see lines of trucks hauling blades up I-35 weekly, probably from Houston.
> There is some economic reason for them to be making this investment. They
> are still preaching at us to reduce our usage, giving away LED bulbs with a
> home energy audit, encouraging time of use billing to reduce the summer
> afternoon load, etc. Between the wind generation and the austerity on
> summer afternoons, they are avoiding building another coal/steam plant.
> 
> Yes, you will always need an on demand generating source to buffer the
> lolls in "green" production - you need both. It's not an all or nothing
> situation.
> 
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:19 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Along those same lines as Craig says….
>> 
>> Most people don’t grasp what goes on behind the scenes at a major utility
>> when it comes to power production.  The utility has to have generating
>> capacity ready and on line for the demand.  If they don’t, they have to
>> purchase power from one of their fellow utilities through inter-local
>> agreements, which is very expensive.
>> 
>> Add to this the need to have large steam or gas turbines up and running
>> for peak times.  From a cold start it can take a steam turbine as much as
>> 15-18 hours to be up and on line to produce maximum power.  That means in
>> the summer when everyone is going to turn on their AC at home in the
>> afternoon the plant needs to be spooled up and ready to respond to that
>> demand - they will need to have fired up that generator more than half a
>> day in advance to be ready.
>> 
>> And what happens if there’s a sudden cold snap?  That excess capacity can
>> be sold off to other utilities who might need it, otherwise it’s
>> effectively lost.
>> 
>> This is why utilities pay very close attention to the weather, for
>> example, as well as keeping very precise records to baseline their
>> production requirements.  They have to be able to estimate the needs of
>> their customers as closely as possible to run as efficiently as they can.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:58 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:02:00 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 Max wrote:
> A solar powered version would be even better.
 
 OT - Call centers selling YouNameIt Power are using words like green,
 wind, solar.
 That seems nice, but isn't all the green power just wheeled over the
 grid?  i.e. the electrons congregate along with coal and hydrocarbons
 and all power is green mixed with green?
>>> 
>>> Yup, that's how it works, if you mean green mixed with conventional.
>>> 
>>> There currently is no storage on the grid: When demand increases, power
>>> stations have to crank out more power; when demand increases, power
>>> stations have to decrease the amount of power they are putting out.
>>> 
>>> "Green" power is highly variable hour to hour. That appears to
>>> conventional plants as a variable demand in addition to the variation
>>> from actual demand.
>>> 
>>> Until "green" power sources are required to have enough storage that they
>>> can put out a constant amount continuously, they will have to be backed
>>> up with conventional sources, some of which are just idling until the
>>> "green" source drops out. Running a conventional power plant that way is
>>> very inefficient and wasteful, and generates more carbon dioxide than
>> just
>>> having the conventional plant by itself, tarnishing the "green" of
>>> "green" power sources.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat 

Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Out here, the power companies are putting up wind turbine generators at a
furiuos rate. They don't seem to be able to get enough of them. We still
see lines of trucks hauling blades up I-35 weekly, probably from Houston.
There is some economic reason for them to be making this investment. They
are still preaching at us to reduce our usage, giving away LED bulbs with a
home energy audit, encouraging time of use billing to reduce the summer
afternoon load, etc. Between the wind generation and the austerity on
summer afternoons, they are avoiding building another coal/steam plant.

Yes, you will always need an on demand generating source to buffer the
lolls in "green" production - you need both. It's not an all or nothing
situation.

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:19 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Along those same lines as Craig says….
>
> Most people don’t grasp what goes on behind the scenes at a major utility
> when it comes to power production.  The utility has to have generating
> capacity ready and on line for the demand.  If they don’t, they have to
> purchase power from one of their fellow utilities through inter-local
> agreements, which is very expensive.
>
> Add to this the need to have large steam or gas turbines up and running
> for peak times.  From a cold start it can take a steam turbine as much as
> 15-18 hours to be up and on line to produce maximum power.  That means in
> the summer when everyone is going to turn on their AC at home in the
> afternoon the plant needs to be spooled up and ready to respond to that
> demand - they will need to have fired up that generator more than half a
> day in advance to be ready.
>
> And what happens if there’s a sudden cold snap?  That excess capacity can
> be sold off to other utilities who might need it, otherwise it’s
> effectively lost.
>
> This is why utilities pay very close attention to the weather, for
> example, as well as keeping very precise records to baseline their
> production requirements.  They have to be able to estimate the needs of
> their customers as closely as possible to run as efficiently as they can.
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:58 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:02:00 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> Max wrote:
> >>> A solar powered version would be even better.
> >>
> >> OT - Call centers selling YouNameIt Power are using words like green,
> >> wind, solar.
> >> That seems nice, but isn't all the green power just wheeled over the
> >> grid?  i.e. the electrons congregate along with coal and hydrocarbons
> >> and all power is green mixed with green?
> >
> > Yup, that's how it works, if you mean green mixed with conventional.
> >
> > There currently is no storage on the grid: When demand increases, power
> > stations have to crank out more power; when demand increases, power
> > stations have to decrease the amount of power they are putting out.
> >
> > "Green" power is highly variable hour to hour. That appears to
> > conventional plants as a variable demand in addition to the variation
> > from actual demand.
> >
> > Until "green" power sources are required to have enough storage that they
> > can put out a constant amount continuously, they will have to be backed
> > up with conventional sources, some of which are just idling until the
> > "green" source drops out. Running a conventional power plant that way is
> > very inefficient and wasteful, and generates more carbon dioxide than
> just
> > having the conventional plant by itself, tarnishing the "green" of
> > "green" power sources.
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 07:51:46 -0700 Jim Cathey via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Exactly.  The 27-mile-long Banks Lake reservoir is 280' _uphill_ of the
> dam, and Lake Roosevelt.

I stand corrected.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 26/04/2017 9:49 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 21:30:07 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
 wrote:


The generator gets commercial power (so it knows when to turn on) and
that runs an integral charger.  Maybe I should replace it with a tender?

Yes, that's is exactly what I said, specifying the specific brand
BatteryMINDer.

  


Does the generator setup only charge when the generator fires up to test 
itself?

Or is there a built-in tender?
If the latter, I doubt you need to change anything.

RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Exactly.  The 27-mile-long Banks Lake reservoir is 280' _uphill_ of the
dam, and Lake Roosevelt.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

You can at Northfield mountain. Pump water from the Connecticut River into the 
lake when electricity is cheap, send it down through the generators when demand 
is high.

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:   On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 19:31:38 -0700 Jim Cathey 
wrote:

> >
> > There currently is no storage on the grid:
> 
> 
> Almost true.  Grand Coulee Dam has Banks lake.  1.2x10^6 acre-feet of
> reserve water, and thus power.

Well, yes, but you can't take electricity you have generated and bank it
in Banks Lake.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> Well, yes, but you can't take electricity you have generated and bank it

in Banks Lake.
>

_You_ can't.  But they can.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 21:30:07 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The generator gets commercial power (so it knows when to turn on) and
> that runs an integral charger.  Maybe I should replace it with a tender?

Yes, that's is exactly what I said, specifying the specific brand
BatteryMINDer.

 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> > Craig via Mercedes
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 9:35 AM
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > Cc: Craig <diese...@pisquared.net>
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset
> > 
> > On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:25:40 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
> > <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Fuel type was a main consideration when I installed a standby
> > > generator and I went with LP (propane) as natural gas isn't
> > > available here.  I have a 500 gal underground tank.  As far as I
> > > know, there are no long-term storage issues with LP (unlike
> > > gasoline and Diesel, to a lesser extent).  My generator starts
> > > itself and runs for about 12 minutes each week.  After 11 years,
> > > the case has started to rust near the battery and exhaust exit but
> > > maintenance has been minimal: oil/filter changes a new battery
> > > (flooded lead acid) every few years. I have wondered if a gel/AGM
> > > battery would be a good investment?
> > 
> > Perhaps a better investment would be a BatteryMINDer
> > charger/maintainer.
> > 
> > 
> > Craig
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 




Craig

--
Present: '82 240D/3.0   Bluebell   285 kmi (Still need to fix leaking
oil pressure gauge and do
something about the failed
hood paint and attend to the
headlight switch -- and now I
need to do something about the
broken left rear trailing arm)
 '89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
 the Big Red Van)

Past:'95 E320   Sebastian  135 kmi   RIP
 '94 E420   Oskar  127 kmi   RIP
 '86 190E/2.3
 '72 220/8
 '64 190Dc  Emma
 '72 220D/8 Herman 186 kmi

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:15:46 -0500 tyee165 via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I thought he was suggesting solar charger for the generator  battery

He was. I'm saying if you are going to generate electricity to replace
the grid when it drops, what's the point?


Craig

> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>  Original message From: Craig via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-04-26  8:48 AM  (GMT-06:00) To:
> Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Craig
> <diese...@pisquared.net> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset On Wed, 26
> Apr 2017 09:41:19 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > A solar powered version would be even better.
> 
> If you were running off-grid, yes, but if the generator is a
> utility-power backup and is waiting until the grid fails, no.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 




Craig

--
Present: '82 240D/3.0   Bluebell   285 kmi (Still need to fix leaking
oil pressure gauge and do
something about the failed
hood paint and attend to the
headlight switch -- and now I
need to do something about the
broken left rear trailing arm)
 '89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
 the Big Red Van)

Past:'95 E320   Sebastian  135 kmi   RIP
 '94 E420   Oskar  127 kmi   RIP
 '86 190E/2.3
 '72 220/8
 '64 190Dc  Emma
 '72 220D/8 Herman 186 kmi

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 19:31:38 -0700 Jim Cathey 
wrote:

> >
> > There currently is no storage on the grid:
> 
> 
> Almost true.  Grand Coulee Dam has Banks lake.  1.2x10^6 acre-feet of
> reserve water, and thus power.

Well, yes, but you can't take electricity you have generated and bank it
in Banks Lake.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

EK!  I need a safe room!  Craig speaks the truth!  We can't have that!

must eliminate those who don't agree wiht albore




Craig via Mercedes 
April 26, 2017 at 7:58 PM
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:02:00 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes



Until "green" power sources are required to have enough storage that they
can put out a constant amount continuously, they will have to be backed
up with conventional sources, some of which are just idling until the
"green" source drops out. Running a conventional power plant that way is
very inefficient and wasteful, and generates more carbon dioxide than just
having the conventional plant by itself, tarnishing the "green" of
"green" power sources.


Craig


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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> There currently is no storage on the grid:


Almost true.  Grand Coulee Dam has Banks lake.  1.2x10^6 acre-feet of
reserve water, and thus power.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The generator gets commercial power (so it knows when to turn on) and that runs 
an integral charger.  Maybe I should replace it with a tender?

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Craig via Mercedes
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 9:35 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Craig <diese...@pisquared.net>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset
> 
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:25:40 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > Fuel type was a main consideration when I installed a standby
> > generator and I went with LP (propane) as natural gas isn't available
> > here.  I have a 500 gal underground tank.  As far as I know, there are
> > no long-term storage issues with LP (unlike gasoline and Diesel, to a
> > lesser extent).  My generator starts itself and runs for about 12
> > minutes each week.  After 11 years, the case has started to rust near
> > the battery and exhaust exit but maintenance has been minimal:
> > oil/filter changes a new battery (flooded lead acid) every few years.
> > I have wondered if a gel/AGM battery would be a good investment?
> 
> Perhaps a better investment would be a BatteryMINDer charger/maintainer.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Along those same lines as Craig says….

Most people don’t grasp what goes on behind the scenes at a major utility when 
it comes to power production.  The utility has to have generating capacity 
ready and on line for the demand.  If they don’t, they have to purchase power 
from one of their fellow utilities through inter-local agreements, which is 
very expensive.

Add to this the need to have large steam or gas turbines up and running for 
peak times.  From a cold start it can take a steam turbine as much as 15-18 
hours to be up and on line to produce maximum power.  That means in the summer 
when everyone is going to turn on their AC at home in the afternoon the plant 
needs to be spooled up and ready to respond to that demand - they will need to 
have fired up that generator more than half a day in advance to be ready.

And what happens if there’s a sudden cold snap?  That excess capacity can be 
sold off to other utilities who might need it, otherwise it’s effectively lost.

This is why utilities pay very close attention to the weather, for example, as 
well as keeping very precise records to baseline their production requirements. 
 They have to be able to estimate the needs of their customers as closely as 
possible to run as efficiently as they can.

-D

 
> On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:58 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:02:00 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> Max wrote:
>>> A solar powered version would be even better.
>> 
>> OT - Call centers selling YouNameIt Power are using words like green,
>> wind, solar.
>> That seems nice, but isn't all the green power just wheeled over the
>> grid?  i.e. the electrons congregate along with coal and hydrocarbons
>> and all power is green mixed with green?
> 
> Yup, that's how it works, if you mean green mixed with conventional.
> 
> There currently is no storage on the grid: When demand increases, power
> stations have to crank out more power; when demand increases, power
> stations have to decrease the amount of power they are putting out.
> 
> "Green" power is highly variable hour to hour. That appears to
> conventional plants as a variable demand in addition to the variation
> from actual demand.
> 
> Until "green" power sources are required to have enough storage that they
> can put out a constant amount continuously, they will have to be backed
> up with conventional sources, some of which are just idling until the
> "green" source drops out. Running a conventional power plant that way is
> very inefficient and wasteful, and generates more carbon dioxide than just
> having the conventional plant by itself, tarnishing the "green" of
> "green" power sources.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

I thought he was suggesting solar charger for the generator  battery



Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Craig via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-04-26  8:48 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Craig <diese...@pisquared.net> 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset 
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 09:41:19 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> A solar powered version would be even better.

If you were running off-grid, yes, but if the generator is a
utility-power backup and is waiting until the grid fails, no.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:02:00 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Max wrote:
> > A solar powered version would be even better.
> 
> OT - Call centers selling YouNameIt Power are using words like green,
> wind, solar.
> That seems nice, but isn't all the green power just wheeled over the
> grid?  i.e. the electrons congregate along with coal and hydrocarbons
> and all power is green mixed with green?

Yup, that's how it works, if you mean green mixed with conventional.

There currently is no storage on the grid: When demand increases, power
stations have to crank out more power; when demand increases, power
stations have to decrease the amount of power they are putting out.

"Green" power is highly variable hour to hour. That appears to
conventional plants as a variable demand in addition to the variation
from actual demand.

Until "green" power sources are required to have enough storage that they
can put out a constant amount continuously, they will have to be backed
up with conventional sources, some of which are just idling until the
"green" source drops out. Running a conventional power plant that way is
very inefficient and wasteful, and generates more carbon dioxide than just
having the conventional plant by itself, tarnishing the "green" of
"green" power sources.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Max wrote:
> A solar powered version would be even better.

OT - Call centers selling YouNameIt Power are using words like green,
wind, solar.
That seems nice, but isn't all the green power just wheeled over the
grid?  i.e. the electrons congregate along with coal and hydrocarbons
and all power is green mixed with green?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 09:41:19 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> A solar powered version would be even better.

If you were running off-grid, yes, but if the generator is a
utility-power backup and is waiting until the grid fails, no.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

A solar powered version would be even better.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

>
> Perhaps a better investment would be a BatteryMINDer charger/maintainer.
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:25:40 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Fuel type was a main consideration when I installed a standby generator
> and I went with LP (propane) as natural gas isn't available here.  I
> have a 500 gal underground tank.  As far as I know, there are no
> long-term storage issues with LP (unlike gasoline and Diesel, to a
> lesser extent).  My generator starts itself and runs for about 12
> minutes each week.  After 11 years, the case has started to rust near
> the battery and exhaust exit but maintenance has been minimal:
> oil/filter changes a new battery (flooded lead acid) every few years.
> I have wondered if a gel/AGM battery would be a good investment?

Perhaps a better investment would be a BatteryMINDer charger/maintainer.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I've got one of the cheap Chinese 2 stroke gens, I think mine is rated 1000w 
steady, 1200w surge. When I first got it ran great, started easy every time. 
Then I didn't run it for four or five years.When I went to run it again the 
fuel shutoff fell right out to the tank. It uses a standard thread so a 
replacement was easy to get.It'll only start now with a shot of fluid though 
even carb cleaner works well. I need to clean the carb but I'm worried about 
getting parts. It runs fine once it's running so I had planned to run it awhile 
with lots of Seafoam to see if it'd clear up, that's on the round tuit list...
It also needs exhaust work, louder than it ought to be.
Curt
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Mitch Haley via 
Mercedes wrote:   
> On April 25, 2017 at 8:49 AM tyee165 via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> But if the thing won't run when you need it, you have lost 100%.

I just did my annual "dump a a little gas into the generator and run it for 20 
minutes because you never used it last winter". Took an inordinate number of 
pulls to get it to fire (probably didn't have enough gas in it to reliably fill 
the carb) but ran just fine after I dumped more gas in and got it started.

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Fuel type was a main consideration when I installed a standby generator and I 
went with LP (propane) as natural gas isn't available here.  I have a 500 gal 
underground tank.  As far as I know, there are no long-term storage issues with 
LP (unlike gasoline and Diesel, to a lesser extent).  My generator starts 
itself and runs for about 12 minutes each week.  After 11 years, the case has 
started to rust near the battery and exhaust exit but maintenance has been 
minimal:  oil/filter changes a new battery (flooded lead acid) every few years. 
 I have wondered if a gel/AGM battery would be a good investment?

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G
> Mann via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 12:39 PM
> 
> Premium gas here has alcohol added also, so it's a no win to use it. I have
> airport access and use 100 Low Lead aviation gas, which is very stable and has
> no alcohol, although it now runs near $5 per gallon.
> Of all the possible selections, seems Av Gas is the best choice for storage 
> for
> me, even then, I add stabilizer, and go through the "run the carb dry drill".
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

Yeah.  All the New Yorkers and jersey folks were all agog when they opened up 
here. Not sure why. Must be a local thing.

First time I had a Philly cheesesteak was at a WaWa in Trenton, NJ. Not 
particularly memorable.

-D

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:09:58 -0400 Dan--- via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> WaWa is a gas station/convenience store that originated in PA or NJ,
>> I'm not sure. They just recently opened a bunch of stores in the Tampa
>> area, one of which is close to me. I buy diesel there, not because
>> they're any better than others, but because 1.) Costco doesn't sell
>> diesel here and 2.) they're a brand new station as opposed to the Hess
>> across the street that's been there for 15 years. I figure WaWa's tanks
>> are probably cleaner.
> 
> Oh, so WaWa is a brand name.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:09:58 -0400 Dan--- via Mercedes
 wrote:

> WaWa is a gas station/convenience store that originated in PA or NJ,
> I'm not sure. They just recently opened a bunch of stores in the Tampa
> area, one of which is close to me. I buy diesel there, not because
> they're any better than others, but because 1.) Costco doesn't sell
> diesel here and 2.) they're a brand new station as opposed to the Hess
> across the street that's been there for 15 years. I figure WaWa's tanks
> are probably cleaner.

Oh, so WaWa is a brand name.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

WaWa is a gas station/convenience store that originated in PA or NJ, I'm not 
sure. They just recently opened a bunch of stores in the Tampa area, one of 
which is close to me. I buy diesel there, not because they're any better than 
others, but because 1.) Costco doesn't sell diesel here and 2.) they're a brand 
new station as opposed to the Hess across the street that's been there for 15 
years. I figure WaWa's tanks are probably cleaner.

-D

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2017, at 2:03 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:04:20 -0400 Dan--- via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> We have "ethanol free" gas at some stations here, mostly the new WaWa
>> places.
> 
> The new "WaWa places"?
> 
> What are those?
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:04:20 -0400 Dan--- via Mercedes
 wrote:

> We have "ethanol free" gas at some stations here, mostly the new WaWa
> places.

The new "WaWa places"?

What are those?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On April 25, 2017 at 11:41 AM G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> If your generator will be setting for any time, drain the tank.

After it ran for 20 minutes and got nice and warm, I shut off the petcock, 
waited for it to die, pulled the fuel hose off the carb and stuck it back in 
the gas can, reopened the petcock and drained the tank.
That's why I have to dump some gas in it every time I want to start it. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

We have "ethanol free" gas at some stations here, mostly the new WaWa places. 
As I fill up my tanks for yard equipment and generator I'll be buying this for 
all future consumption.

Looks like it's about the same price as premium fuel with ethanol.

I always run my small engine powered equipment out of fuel when I'm done using 
it. A habit I got into years ago.

-D

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2017, at 12:39 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Premium gas here has alcohol added also, so it's a no win to use it. I have
> airport access and use 100 Low Lead aviation gas, which is very stable and
> has no alcohol, although it now runs near $5 per gallon.
> Of all the possible selections, seems Av Gas is the best choice for storage
> for me, even then, I add stabilizer, and go through the "run the carb dry
> drill".
> 
> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>>> On 25/04/2017 10:41 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>> It has become my practice to shut down gas generators by shutting off the
>>> fuel valve at the tank and letting them run out of fuel at the carburetor,
>>> THEN opening the drain screw in the bottom of the carb to drip out the
>>> little bit of gas that remains, close that screw and the carb is dry for
>>> storage.
>>> 
>>> So far, it's saved having to remove carburetors and clean the dried
>>> varnish
>>> from long dead gas.
>>> Start up requires opening the tank valve and wait a bit for the carb to
>>> fill. a bit of choke, couple pulls on the rope.. and if the gas isn't more
>>> than 6 months old.. a start.
>>> I have found the new gas with the EPA ethanol blend is horrible to store..
>>> It absorbs water, the ethanol evaporates, and it turns to sludge much more
>>> quickly.
>>> If your generator will be setting for any time, drain the tank.
>>> 
>>> 
>> Does premium gas have alcohol added where you are?
>> Our premium does not and I have started using it in things like the
>> snowblower and lawnmower etc.
>> 
>> 
>> RB
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Premium gas here has alcohol added also, so it's a no win to use it. I have
airport access and use 100 Low Lead aviation gas, which is very stable and
has no alcohol, although it now runs near $5 per gallon.
Of all the possible selections, seems Av Gas is the best choice for storage
for me, even then, I add stabilizer, and go through the "run the carb dry
drill".

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 25/04/2017 10:41 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> It has become my practice to shut down gas generators by shutting off the
>> fuel valve at the tank and letting them run out of fuel at the carburetor,
>> THEN opening the drain screw in the bottom of the carb to drip out the
>> little bit of gas that remains, close that screw and the carb is dry for
>> storage.
>>
>> So far, it's saved having to remove carburetors and clean the dried
>> varnish
>> from long dead gas.
>> Start up requires opening the tank valve and wait a bit for the carb to
>> fill. a bit of choke, couple pulls on the rope.. and if the gas isn't more
>> than 6 months old.. a start.
>> I have found the new gas with the EPA ethanol blend is horrible to store..
>> It absorbs water, the ethanol evaporates, and it turns to sludge much more
>> quickly.
>> If your generator will be setting for any time, drain the tank.
>>
>>
> Does premium gas have alcohol added where you are?
> Our premium does not and I have started using it in things like the
> snowblower and lawnmower etc.
>
>
> RB
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 25/04/2017 10:41 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

It has become my practice to shut down gas generators by shutting off the
fuel valve at the tank and letting them run out of fuel at the carburetor,
THEN opening the drain screw in the bottom of the carb to drip out the
little bit of gas that remains, close that screw and the carb is dry for
storage.

So far, it's saved having to remove carburetors and clean the dried varnish
from long dead gas.
Start up requires opening the tank valve and wait a bit for the carb to
fill. a bit of choke, couple pulls on the rope.. and if the gas isn't more
than 6 months old.. a start.
I have found the new gas with the EPA ethanol blend is horrible to store..
It absorbs water, the ethanol evaporates, and it turns to sludge much more
quickly.
If your generator will be setting for any time, drain the tank.



Does premium gas have alcohol added where you are?
Our premium does not and I have started using it in things like the 
snowblower and lawnmower etc.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 25/04/2017 9:58 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

On April 25, 2017 at 8:49 AM tyee165 via Mercedes  wrote:


But if the thing won't run when you need it, you have lost 100%.

I just did my annual "dump a a little gas into the generator and run it for 20 
minutes because you never used it last winter". Took an inordinate number of pulls 
to get it to fire (probably didn't have enough gas in it to reliably fill the carb) but 
ran just fine after I dumped more gas in and got it started.

___


I have one in the shed that has been fine for at least 10 years but 
would not start last fall when I tried to test it.
I was doing the same thing. I would fire it up once or twice every year, 
usually spring and fall, just to make sure it was ok.
I would let it run for a bit and I would plug something in and make it 
work a bit etc. Always went when I asked it to do so.
I don't keep a lot of fuel in the tank and I put fuel stabilizer in it 
so I thought that was saving me.
Last fall it would not start. I put it away like that as I was busy with 
other things.
Now I need to drag it out and try again. May need to clean the carb. 
Might just like a new spark plug? Time will tell.
It is a Generac with a Briggs motor. Cannot recall exact output - 7500 
maybe?


I also bought a propane powered one just to avoid that problem but I 
have yet to put it all together and fire it up.
It is older and stationary unless I mount wheels under it. 10Kw on 
propane but I may set it up to run on natural gas which I am told may 
drop it to about 8Kw.

It is powered by a twin cylinder Wisconsin engine.
Will need to pick Dan's brain if it causes me issues when I try to get 
it up and running.


RB

RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[G Mann via Mercedes]

It has become my practice to shut down gas generators by shutting off the
fuel valve at the tank and letting them run out of fuel at the carburetor,
THEN opening the drain screw in the bottom of the carb to drip out the
little bit of gas that remains, close that screw and the carb is dry for
storage.

So far, it's saved having to remove carburetors and clean the dried varnish
from long dead gas.
Start up requires opening the tank valve and wait a bit for the carb to
fill. a bit of choke, couple pulls on the rope.. and if the gas isn't more
than 6 months old.. a start.
I have found the new gas with the EPA ethanol blend is horrible to store..
It absorbs water, the ethanol evaporates, and it turns to sludge much more
quickly.
If your generator will be setting for any time, drain the tank.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On April 25, 2017 at 8:49 AM tyee165 via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > But if the thing won't run when you need it, you have lost 100%.
>
> I just did my annual "dump a a little gas into the generator and run it
> for 20 minutes because you never used it last winter". Took an inordinate
> number of pulls to get it to fire (probably didn't have enough gas in it to
> reliably fill the carb) but ran just fine after I dumped more gas in and
> got it started.
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On April 25, 2017 at 8:49 AM tyee165 via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> But if the thing won't run when you need it, you have lost 100%.

I just did my annual "dump a a little gas into the generator and run it for 20 
minutes because you never used it last winter". Took an inordinate number of 
pulls to get it to fire (probably didn't have enough gas in it to reliably fill 
the carb) but ran just fine after I dumped more gas in and got it started.

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

Very true.

-D

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 25, 2017, at 8:49 AM, tyee165 via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> But if the thing won't run when you need it, you have lost 100%.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>  Original message From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-04-25  5:34 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
> Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com> 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset 
> Understand that if you do convert from gasoline to a dry fuel such as propane 
> or natural gas you'll lose about 10-20% of your output due to the lower BTU 
> content.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:37 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> you can convert any vergasser to propane.  For one like this, you might not 
>> be able to get everything under the covers.  I plan to convert the old 
>> Kohler I have, but have not yet done it.
>> 
>>> tyee165 via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> April 24, 2017 at 10:34 PM
>>> Look for one  that runs on propaneThen it will still work when you need it 
>>> and not have a plugged up carburetor
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

But if the thing won't run when you need it, you have lost 100%.


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-04-25  5:34 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com> 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset 
Understand that if you do convert from gasoline to a dry fuel such as propane 
or natural gas you'll lose about 10-20% of your output due to the lower BTU 
content.

-D

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:37 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> you can convert any vergasser to propane.  For one like this, you might not 
> be able to get everything under the covers.  I plan to convert the old Kohler 
> I have, but have not yet done it.
> 
>> tyee165 via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> April 24, 2017 at 10:34 PM
>> Look for one  that runs on propaneThen it will still work when you need it 
>> and not have a plugged up carburetor
>> 
> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Understand that if you do convert from gasoline to a dry fuel such as propane 
or natural gas you'll lose about 10-20% of your output due to the lower BTU 
content.

-D

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:37 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> you can convert any vergasser to propane.  For one like this, you might not 
> be able to get everything under the covers.  I plan to convert the old Kohler 
> I have, but have not yet done it.
> 
>> tyee165 via Mercedes 
>> April 24, 2017 at 10:34 PM
>> Look for one  that runs on propaneThen it will still work when you need it 
>> and not have a plugged up carburetor
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

you can convert any vergasser to propane.  For one like this, you might 
not be able to get everything under the covers.  I plan to convert the 
old Kohler I have, but have not yet done it.



tyee165 via Mercedes 
April 24, 2017 at 10:34 PM
Look for one  that runs on propaneThen it will still work when you 
need it and not have a plugged up carburetor




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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

Look for one  that runs on propaneThen it will still work when you need it and 
not have a plugged up carburetor 


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-04-24  7:28 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Mitch Haley 
<mi...@mitchellhaley.com> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset 
Compared to spending $90-100 on one of the 800W 2-strokers, it seems like a 
bargain, if you have no need for 240V.
Mitch. 

> On April 24, 2017 at 6:37 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> That's why it's $135.  Almost cheap enough to take a winger on it and 
> just have it around.
> 
> --FT
> 
> 
> On 4/24/17 6:35 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
> > Wen went outa bidness about 30 yrs ago.  Someone recently got the name 
> > to slap on Chinee stuff.   Wen (now) = HF quality.
> >
> >> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> April 24, 2017 at 5:22 PM
> >> https://deals.kinja.com/prepare-for-the-worst-with-a-great-deal-on-amazons-most-1794593419
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >> $141 might be worth having around to run the fridge or take to a job 
> >> site to run power tools
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> 
> -- 
> --FT
> Winston Churchill:
> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large 
> or petty,
> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
> enemy.”
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
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>

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Hmm, $135.37 is my price, with free shipping.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Compared to spending $90-100 on one of the 800W 2-strokers, it seems like
> a bargain, if you have no need for 240V.
> Mitch.
>
> > On April 24, 2017 at 6:37 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > That's why it's $135.  Almost cheap enough to take a winger on it and
> > just have it around.
> >
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > On 4/24/17 6:35 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
> > > Wen went outa bidness about 30 yrs ago.  Someone recently got the name
> > > to slap on Chinee stuff.   Wen (now) = HF quality.
> > >
> > >> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > >> April 24, 2017 at 5:22 PM
> > >> https://deals.kinja.com/prepare-for-the-worst-with-a-
> great-deal-on-amazons-most-1794593419
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> $141 might be worth having around to run the fridge or take to a job
> > >> site to run power tools
> > >>
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> > --
> > --FT
> > Winston Churchill:
> > “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
> large or petty,
> > never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> > Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might
> of the enemy.”
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Compared to spending $90-100 on one of the 800W 2-strokers, it seems like a 
bargain, if you have no need for 240V.
Mitch. 

> On April 24, 2017 at 6:37 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> That's why it's $135.  Almost cheap enough to take a winger on it and 
> just have it around.
> 
> --FT
> 
> 
> On 4/24/17 6:35 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
> > Wen went outa bidness about 30 yrs ago.  Someone recently got the name 
> > to slap on Chinee stuff.   Wen (now) = HF quality.
> >
> >> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> >> April 24, 2017 at 5:22 PM
> >> https://deals.kinja.com/prepare-for-the-worst-with-a-great-deal-on-amazons-most-1794593419
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >> $141 might be worth having around to run the fridge or take to a job 
> >> site to run power tools
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> 
> -- 
> --FT
> Winston Churchill:
> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large 
> or petty,
> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
> enemy.”
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

That's why it's $135.  Almost cheap enough to take a winger on it and 
just have it around.


--FT


On 4/24/17 6:35 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Wen went outa bidness about 30 yrs ago.  Someone recently got the name 
to slap on Chinee stuff.   Wen (now) = HF quality.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
April 24, 2017 at 5:22 PM
https://deals.kinja.com/prepare-for-the-worst-with-a-great-deal-on-amazons-most-1794593419 



$141 might be worth having around to run the fridge or take to a job 
site to run power tools




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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Either way, it is a whole bunch cheaper than a Hondog generator.  They 
think their name is worth an extra $2000 to $5000.




Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
April 24, 2017 at 5:24 PM
Actually

Price: $135.37
*FREE Shipping* (3 days) for Prime members Details 




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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Wen went outa bidness about 30 yrs ago.  Someone recently got the name 
to slap on Chinee stuff.   Wen (now) = HF quality.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
April 24, 2017 at 5:22 PM
https://deals.kinja.com/prepare-for-the-worst-with-a-great-deal-on-amazons-most-1794593419 



$141 might be worth having around to run the fridge or take to a job 
site to run power tools




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Re: [MBZ] OT cheap genset

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Actually

Price:  $135.37
*FREE Shipping* (3 days) for Prime members Details 


On 4/24/17 6:22 PM, Floyd Thursby wrote:
https://deals.kinja.com/prepare-for-the-worst-with-a-great-deal-on-amazons-most-1794593419 



$141 might be worth having around to run the fridge or take to a job 
site to run power tools




--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”

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