Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
Or, you could just buy a W115 300D with a huge manual sliding sunroof. Huge. Just remember to ... eat your Wheaties. ;) Tom Schuch 1975 W115 300D and all those BMWs Message: 9 Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 14:42:12 -0400 From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs Message-ID: 01cbecae$b01a4f50$104eedf0$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii That's interesting that VW had such a sunroof. I'll bet it was a Webasto product, and so theoretically could also be provided to MB. I wonder if one could retrofit that sunroof to an MB? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:05 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs According to Mombusa, Max, you don't exist. Isn't that comforting! VW had manual sunroofs. push the button and crank one way for the tip up vent. Crank the other way to open the sunroof. I used to own an '85 300TD which was a grey-market import. NA engine, manual heat control, no AC, five speed transmission. It had a manual sunroof, which was a real pleasure once I'd properly cleaned and lubed it. I would really like to have manual sunroofs in my 124 cars if they could also incorporate the rear pop-up feature. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:33 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
A working MB power sunroof is quite pleasant but a manual MB is just as good in every respect plus I've never heard of or seen an inoperable one... -Curt Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:32:42 -0700 From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs Message-ID: AANLkTim6=qmhiH2=KYE9=ve0on1yeeoju9gzx2fsa...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
That's interesting that VW had such a sunroof. I'll bet it was a Webasto product, and so theoretically could also be provided to MB. I wonder if one could retrofit that sunroof to an MB? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:05 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs According to Mombusa, Max, you don't exist. Isn't that comforting! VW had manual sunroofs. push the button and crank one way for the tip up vent. Crank the other way to open the sunroof. I used to own an '85 300TD which was a grey-market import. NA engine, manual heat control, no AC, five speed transmission. It had a manual sunroof, which was a real pleasure once I'd properly cleaned and lubed it. I would really like to have manual sunroofs in my 124 cars if they could also incorporate the rear pop-up feature. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:33 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
One can retrofit most anything given enough time and capital. Walt On Mar 27, 2011 2:42 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: That's interesting that VW had such a sunroof. I'll bet it was a Webasto product, and so theoretically could also be provided to MB. I wonder if one could retrofit that sunroof to an MB? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:05 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs According to Mombusa, Max, you don't exist. Isn't that comforting! VW had manual sunroofs. push the button and crank one way for the tip up vent. Crank the other way to open the sunroof. I used to own an '85 300TD which was a grey-market import. NA engine, manual heat control, no AC, five speed transmission. It had a manual sunroof, which was a real pleasure once I'd properly cleaned and lubed it. I would really like to have manual sunroofs in my 124 cars if they could also incorporate the rear pop-up feature. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:33 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
IIRC, Webasto was the supplier of VW sunroofs. I had a large collection of VWs in my younger days, and I do recall seeing their name on parts. I am thinking they may also have been the supplier of gas heaters for them as well. Anyone recall that? Dan Sent from my iPod On Mar 27, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: That's interesting that VW had such a sunroof. I'll bet it was a Webasto product, and so theoretically could also be provided to MB. I wonder if one could retrofit that sunroof to an MB? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:05 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs According to Mombusa, Max, you don't exist. Isn't that comforting! VW had manual sunroofs. push the button and crank one way for the tip up vent. Crank the other way to open the sunroof. I used to own an '85 300TD which was a grey-market import. NA engine, manual heat control, no AC, five speed transmission. It had a manual sunroof, which was a real pleasure once I'd properly cleaned and lubed it. I would really like to have manual sunroofs in my 124 cars if they could also incorporate the rear pop-up feature. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:33 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
Correct, Webasto is/was the gas/diesel heater maker for VW, I know that much for a fact. Walt On Mar 27, 2011 3:34 PM, Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: IIRC, Webasto was the supplier of VW sunroofs. I had a large collection of VWs in my younger days, and I do recall seeing their name on parts. I am thinking they may also have been the supplier of gas heaters for them as well. Anyone recall that? Dan Sent from my iPod On Mar 27, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: That's interesting that VW had such a sunroof. I'll bet it was a Webasto product, and so theoretically could also be provided to MB. I wonder if one could retrofit that sunroof to an MB? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com ] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:05 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs According to Mombusa, Max, you don't exist. Isn't that comforting! VW had manual sunroofs. push the button and crank one way for the tip up vent. Crank the other way to open the sunroof. I used to own an '85 300TD which was a grey-market import. NA engine, manual heat control, no AC, five speed transmission. It had a manual sunroof, which was a real pleasure once I'd properly cleaned and lubed it. I would really like to have manual sunroofs in my 124 cars if they could also incorporate the rear pop-up feature. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:33 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
No, but Webasto can provide them to MB in the proper size. That's interesting that VW had such a sunroof. I'll bet it was a Webasto product, and so theoretically could also be provided to MB. I wonder if one could retrofit that sunroof to an MB? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:05 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs According to Mombusa, Max, you don't exist. Isn't that comforting! VW had manual sunroofs. push the button and crank one way for the tip up vent. Crank the other way to open the sunroof. I used to own an '85 300TD which was a grey-market import. NA engine, manual heat control, no AC, five speed transmission. It had a manual sunroof, which was a real pleasure once I'd properly cleaned and lubed it. I would really like to have manual sunroofs in my 124 cars if they could also incorporate the rear pop-up feature. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:33 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
That is my recollection I only had VWs, both Ghias 1956 and 1960 IIRC, Webasto was the supplier of VW sunroofs. I had a large collection of VWs in my younger days, and I do recall seeing their name on parts. I am thinking they may also have been the supplier of gas heaters for them as well. Anyone recall that? Dan Sent from my iPod On Mar 27, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: That's interesting that VW had such a sunroof. I'll bet it was a Webasto product, and so theoretically could also be provided to MB. I wonder if one could retrofit that sunroof to an MB? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:05 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs According to Mombusa, Max, you don't exist. Isn't that comforting! VW had manual sunroofs. push the button and crank one way for the tip up vent. Crank the other way to open the sunroof. I used to own an '85 300TD which was a grey-market import. NA engine, manual heat control, no AC, five speed transmission. It had a manual sunroof, which was a real pleasure once I'd properly cleaned and lubed it. I would really like to have manual sunroofs in my 124 cars if they could also incorporate the rear pop-up feature. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:33 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
The heaters is what I've heard of them for, didn't know about sunroofs... -Curt Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:34:40 -0400 From: Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs Message-ID: 5a69e7b0-32a7-4509-aff3-602bb6586...@yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii IIRC, Webasto was the supplier of VW sunroofs. I had a large collection of VWs in my younger days, and I do recall seeing their name on parts. I am thinking they may also have been the supplier of gas heaters for them as well. Anyone recall that? Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
I'm not exactly sure what your point is, but like it or not, Mercedes is a luxury brand in the USA. Even in the early 1980s, most models were available standard with automatic climate control (240D is the only exception), power windows, etc. Most of the world envys us for getting all the good cars with lots of features for reasonable prices. There has been discussion about bringing the B class to the US for years. They are now sold in Canada. Really, its all about what the market wants. Does Mercedes really want to compete with VW Jettas, etc, and will people really pay a premium for it? I dunno, I'm an engineer, not a marketing guy. With luxury features comes loads of safety and quality in engineering. Plain models are really a relative thing. Looking back at a W211 2003 E320, I see a pretty simple plain and reliable car I'd consider owning. In 2003, we'd all look at this and say Whoa, stay away!. I look at the new SLK I'm driving this weekend and I'm taken back by the numbers of advanced features in a mid-range Mercedes. Really, its just an example of where all other cars will be in a few years when they catch up, and where the S class was a few years ago. I'm sure when looking at a brand new W116 in 1973, with its crazy electronic fuel injection, people felt exactly the same way. Now people think nothing of owning a W124 or W210 and fixing it themselves, which are much more complex and closer to a modern mercedes than most realize. Our kids (and kid's kids) will grow up know nothing other than checking DTCs and using CAN tools to diagnose their teenage beaters. And they'll talk about how it won't be possible with new cars of the era. And a 240D will be a museum piece not fit for public roads. Jaime On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: On the radio here they have been endlessly advertising the new LUXURY car lineup compass, patriot, liberty, ...Blah blah. Now go ask your grandfather who was in WWII if a cheep is a luxury car Message to MomBUSA: If a cheap is a luxury car WHY ON EARTH would Mombusa insist on positioning Mercedes Benz as a luxury car in place of the best engineered vehicles in the world? We don't all want all the ACC and so called luxury crap. There is a market for the A class and other rest of the world models here. The plain models sold in the rest of the world will also sell here. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
Jaime Kopchinski wrote: I'm sure when looking at a brand new W116 in 1973, with its crazy electronic fuel injection, people felt exactly the same way. I still feel that way about D-Jetronic. And now I feel that way about K-Jetronic if it's been parked for a year without running diesel calibrating oil through the fuel distributor and injectors before storage. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
I agree that MB has always had advanced features, and that new things appear first on the S, then on the smaller cars. (then on US cars) I always like to point out that the 62 190Dc and the 59 220b and Sb has steering locking, and the key was in the dash not on the steering column, and that it was way more study than the gm steering column lock. (didn't appear in the US until 1968, when it was a gummit mandate) They also had very effective crumple zones designed without computers. The first point is easy. If cheap compass is a Luxury car why SHOULD MB compete with it? Why would MB WANT to compete with the whole cheep lineup that are now considered luxury cars? The second point is what you brought up Engineered like no other is what MB used to be, and I think is trying to be again. However, to be engineered like no other, doesn't mean we should have to pay for stuff we don't want. Like ACC, power windows, power sunroofs (although i will pay for the sunroof), auto trans, leather seats. As you can tell from the comments on this list over the years, many people like the cloth seat covers. If the car is engineered like no other we should have a choice. We should at LEAST be able to special order a car without the stuff we don't want. MASS PRODUCTION is out. MASS CUSTOMIZATION is the future. computers make mass customization easy. in the 60s, my friend who used to own a MB dealership when it was a studebaker dealership says that the typical customer was an engineer or someone who appreciated the advanced engineeringand or safety of a Mercedes. Yet, may princes, potentates, and hollywood and nashville personalities bought MB also. When the typical customer became a yuppie or yuppie larvae that could barely afford the lease, he sold the dealership. I have noticed over the 30 some years of being an MBCA member that there are two types of MBCA member. A: the one who bought the car because of the image and how it boosts their fragile ego. This is the typical luxury car buyer and B: the one who appreciates the safety, and engineering of the MB. These are often serial owners of several or many MBs. For the past 20 or so years MB has been targeting type A and been disrespectful of type B. In the marketing game, customer retention is the game. For all the marketing brainpower that has been running MB for the past 2 decades, it seems stupid to ignore or disdain the repeat customer, type B. In the 60s and 70s the print VW ads were legendary, and the MB ads were similar. They focused on the practicality and reliability of the VW and the engineering and safety of the MB. For the past 20 years, the MB ads in essence say if you lease a MB, you can be a bigger snob than your snob friends. Why wouldn't MB want to compete with engineered like no other and set itself apart from the luxury cars like cheep, caddylack, linkum, letsus, infinitoe, bimmers, folvos, hyndi, mahindry and the unending line of chebbies, frods dogdes and other vehicles that think power everything and leather makes a luxury car. The catch is to separate stuff that is useful and practical from the fluff that the software people want to slip in just to show they can do it, that is neither useful or practical. (the 12 mb starwar credits on excel 97) I'm not exactly sure what your point is, but like it or not, Mercedes is a luxury brand in the USA. Even in the early 1980s, most models were available standard with automatic climate control (240D is the only exception), power windows, etc. Most of the world envys us for getting all the good cars with lots of features for reasonable prices. There has been discussion about bringing the B class to the US for years. They are now sold in Canada. Really, its all about what the market wants. Does Mercedes really want to compete with VW Jettas, etc, and will people really pay a premium for it? I dunno, I'm an engineer, not a marketing guy. With luxury features comes loads of safety and quality in engineering. Plain models are really a relative thing. Looking back at a W211 2003 E320, I see a pretty simple plain and reliable car I'd consider owning. In 2003, we'd all look at this and say Whoa, stay away!. I look at the new SLK I'm driving this weekend and I'm taken back by the numbers of advanced features in a mid-range Mercedes. Really, its just an example of where all other cars will be in a few years when they catch up, and where the S class was a few years ago. I'm sure when looking at a brand new W116 in 1973, with its crazy electronic fuel injection, people felt exactly the same way. Now people think nothing of owning a W124 or W210 and fixing it themselves, which are much more complex and closer to a modern mercedes than most realize. Our kids (and kid's kids) will grow up know nothing other than checking DTCs and using CAN tools to diagnose their teenage beaters. And they'll talk about how it won't be
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
At this point it seem like engineering is moving way out on the curve of diminishing returns, at least regards handling, structure, safety, etc. Maybe engine/powertrain technology will continue to improve a bit with fuel efficiency, hybrids, etc. but a lot of the other engineering stuff is electronic gizmos that have little to do with the intrinsic car aspects. Even a cheap Hyundai (which BTW have some very nice styling these days) or Kia or whatever will have vastly improved safety and handling over most cars even 10 yr old, though they might not have radar-controlled cruise controls and auto parking or single-control display screens and such. I kinda think the 84 SDs have some pretty good handling, and probably decent structural/survivability aspects, even without airbags, but at that time they were engineered way beyond your average dtroit or jap iron. My wife asks occasionally, Is that a good car? when seeing something, and I have to say that most cars these days are very good compared to 10 yr ago, some might be a bit better than others, but that is at the margins I think. A few months ago a young kid had a fairly high-speed interaction with a 250 yr old Live Oak tree up the road (about 5ft diameter), the tree did not move, and he died. I saw some pics of the car (a fairly new Toyota Camry or some such) at the scene, airbag deployed, passenger area fairly intact, whole front crumped, looked survivable to me though the driver might have been messed up a bit. Turned out it was suicide for some unclear reasons, he did not have his seat belt on so even with the airbag he hit the roof or windshield or something. So, that kinda said that good engineering is now quite prevalent and affordable, but is only as good as the user allows it to be. He probably would have bought the tree even in a Benz... --R On 3/26/11 9:53 AM, Dieselhead wrote: The second point is what you brought up Engineered like no other is what MB used to be, and I think is trying to be again. However, to be engineered like no other, doesn't mean we should have to pay for stuff we don't want. Like ACC, power windows, power sunroofs (although i will pay for the sunroof), auto trans, leather seats. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
I'm important not to confuse engineering and marketing. We design and test all sorts of low end features that never make it to market in the US... the engineers have nothing to do with this decision. The marketing people decide what will sell and what won't, and how to package it. Its important to note that MBUSA is a marketing and sales company before anything else, and they have nearly no development engineering. As development engineers, we just sit back and wonder how and why they make the decisions they do. This is how it works in most industries. But one thing I've noticed on these lists over the years: While the 240D crowd loves to go on and on about how MB doesn't offer what they want, the reality is that there are very few people out there that feel the same way. And the number of people in that group willing to pay $40,000+ for a new car of any kind is probably barley a handful. Like it or not, the majority of buyers want what MBUSA is selling, and thats why they are successful at doing what they do. Do I like the idea of buying a brand new W212 E220 diesel with a 6 speed and cloth seats? You bet! Can I afford it? Nope! If I could, would I really buy one? Don't know. Jaime On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that MB has always had advanced features, and that new things appear first on the S, then on the smaller cars. (then on US cars) I always like to point out that the 62 190Dc and the 59 220b and Sb has steering locking, and the key was in the dash not on the steering column, and that it was way more study than the gm steering column lock. (didn't appear in the US until 1968, when it was a gummit mandate) They also had very effective crumple zones designed without computers. The first point is easy. If cheap compass is a Luxury car why SHOULD MB compete with it? Why would MB WANT to compete with the whole cheep lineup that are now considered luxury cars? The second point is what you brought up Engineered like no other is what MB used to be, and I think is trying to be again. However, to be engineered like no other, doesn't mean we should have to pay for stuff we don't want. Like ACC, power windows, power sunroofs (although i will pay for the sunroof), auto trans, leather seats. As you can tell from the comments on this list over the years, many people like the cloth seat covers. If the car is engineered like no other we should have a choice. We should at LEAST be able to special order a car without the stuff we don't want. MASS PRODUCTION is out. MASS CUSTOMIZATION is the future. computers make mass customization easy. in the 60s, my friend who used to own a MB dealership when it was a studebaker dealership says that the typical customer was an engineer or someone who appreciated the advanced engineeringand or safety of a Mercedes. Yet, may princes, potentates, and hollywood and nashville personalities bought MB also. When the typical customer became a yuppie or yuppie larvae that could barely afford the lease, he sold the dealership. I have noticed over the 30 some years of being an MBCA member that there are two types of MBCA member. A: the one who bought the car because of the image and how it boosts their fragile ego. This is the typical luxury car buyer and B: the one who appreciates the safety, and engineering of the MB. These are often serial owners of several or many MBs. For the past 20 or so years MB has been targeting type A and been disrespectful of type B. In the marketing game, customer retention is the game. For all the marketing brainpower that has been running MB for the past 2 decades, it seems stupid to ignore or disdain the repeat customer, type B. In the 60s and 70s the print VW ads were legendary, and the MB ads were similar. They focused on the practicality and reliability of the VW and the engineering and safety of the MB. For the past 20 years, the MB ads in essence say if you lease a MB, you can be a bigger snob than your snob friends. Why wouldn't MB want to compete with engineered like no other and set itself apart from the luxury cars like cheep, caddylack, linkum, letsus, infinitoe, bimmers, folvos, hyndi, mahindry and the unending line of chebbies, frods dogdes and other vehicles that think power everything and leather makes a luxury car. The catch is to separate stuff that is useful and practical from the fluff that the software people want to slip in just to show they can do it, that is neither useful or practical. (the 12 mb starwar credits on excel 97) I'm not exactly sure what your point is, but like it or not, Mercedes is a luxury brand in the USA. Even in the early 1980s, most models were available standard with automatic climate control (240D is the only exception), power windows, etc. Most of the world envys us for getting all the good cars with lots of features for reasonable prices. There
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
I think there is definitely a niche that would pay a premium price for engineering as opposed to luxury. Whether it's big enough to be worth it for MBUSA I doubt, and obviously they do as well since they are not bringing over any cars that target that niche. I doubt I will ever buy another factory new car in my life, as I'd rather let someone else take the depreciation hit for the first few years. So I will never be in either group as far as MB is concerned. I suspect you are right, that most if not nearly all of the folks on this list are not new car buyers either, since we tend to be driving 10--30 year old models. So would I buy a brand new W212 E220 diesel with a 6 speed and cloth seats? Never. Would I buy a used one at some point? Yes, but that doesn't mean much to MB. Allan Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com writes: I'm important not to confuse engineering and marketing. We design and test all sorts of low end features that never make it to market in the US... the engineers have nothing to do with this decision. The marketing people decide what will sell and what won't, and how to package it. Its important to note that MBUSA is a marketing and sales company before anything else, and they have nearly no development engineering. As development engineers, we just sit back and wonder how and why they make the decisions they do. This is how it works in most industries. But one thing I've noticed on these lists over the years: While the 240D crowd loves to go on and on about how MB doesn't offer what they want, the reality is that there are very few people out there that feel the same way. And the number of people in that group willing to pay $40,000+ for a new car of any kind is probably barley a handful. Like it or not, the majority of buyers want what MBUSA is selling, and thats why they are successful at doing what they do. Do I like the idea of buying a brand new W212 E220 diesel with a 6 speed and cloth seats? You bet! Can I afford it? Nope! If I could, would I really buy one? Don't know. Jaime -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
Exactly! Until the Mombusa marketing geniuses offer something l like, I won't be buying any. The original SLK mit compressor is interesting, but I don't have time/money for a toy. I came close to buying one until the stealership head lizard ticked my off. It is not just MB that offers uninteresting cars. It is all the carmakers. I spent an hour and a half sitting in all kinds of vehicles at a big detriot iron stealership, and the only thing I found that was even tolerable was an impala. Everything else obstructs your vision with an oversize RV mirror in the center of the windshield. I found this so annoying in a rental HHR that I swore I'd never drive an HHR again. Now I find it is common to most cars, vans and pickups produced in the past 5-10 years, domestic and asian. To be fair, I have not done the same at an MB stealership, but I almost did a week or two ago. I just didn't feel like dressing up for the event to try to make enough impression that a sales lizard would even let me sit in a luxury car. I will be buying something in the next few months. Until I sat in them, I thought i wanted a new van. pickup or suburban. I don't know what I will buy yet, but based on the BS crap on new vehicles, right now the most attractive thing (price aside) is a 97-2000 grand caravan with low miles or a late 124 or 210 diesel or a brand new hy-undies sonata. I still think an SDL is way better than anything newer, so I probably should just put money into the SDL rather than spending $ on a new car I don't even like. It is the van that I really will need to replace sometime. MB used to be driven by engineering. MB driven by the marketing geniuses offers me nothing interesting, except the sprinter. I know well the predicament you face. It is always the same when a company is run by sales/marketing/bean counter geniuses. Anything that makes sense isn't done. Anything that is insane is done. In my first job in the engineering world, I watched them introduce new models based on artwork, when the competitors were attacking the value perception. Not surprisingly , that company is no longer around. Many of us who drive and enjoy old MBs buy new vehicles. Most of us don't buy new MBs. Many of us would buy new MBs if they offered vehicles that were interesting/valuable. Most 'mericuns buy based on at least perception of value. in the 'mericun vehicle business the game is trying to build perception of value based on emotions. Unfortunately that works on most 'merikuns. My point to MB is that by stressing engineering, not luxury, they can appeal to those of us who buy based on facts and real value as well as those who buy based on emotions and their fragile ego. They can also stay ahead of the rest of the crowd who are trying to tell cheeps as luxury cars Back to the original question: If a cheep is a luxury car Why on earth would MB want to position themselves as a luxury car? I'm important not to confuse engineering and marketing. We design and test all sorts of low end features that never make it to market in the US... the engineers have nothing to do with this decision. The marketing people decide what will sell and what won't, and how to package it. Its important to note that MBUSA is a marketing and sales company before anything else, and they have nearly no development engineering. As development engineers, we just sit back and wonder how and why they make the decisions they do. This is how it works in most industries. But one thing I've noticed on these lists over the years: While the 240D crowd loves to go on and on about how MB doesn't offer what they want, the reality is that there are very few people out there that feel the same way. And the number of people in that group willing to pay $40,000+ for a new car of any kind is probably barley a handful. Like it or not, the majority of buyers want what MBUSA is selling, and thats why they are successful at doing what they do. Do I like the idea of buying a brand new W212 E220 diesel with a 6 speed and cloth seats? You bet! Can I afford it? Nope! If I could, would I really buy one? Don't know. Jaime On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that MB has always had advanced features, and that new things appear first on the S, then on the smaller cars. (then on US cars) I always like to point out that the 62 190Dc and the 59 220b and Sb has steering locking, and the key was in the dash not on the steering column, and that it was way more study than the gm steering column lock. (didn't appear in the US until 1968, when it was a gummit mandate) They also had very effective crumple zones designed without computers. The first point is easy. If cheap compass is a Luxury car why SHOULD MB compete with it? Why would MB WANT to compete with the whole cheep lineup that are now considered luxury cars? The second point
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
Dieselhead wrote: I still think an SDL is way better than anything newer, so I probably should just put money into the SDL rather than spending $ on a new car I don't even like. It is the van that I really will need to replace sometime. 126 = Great car. If only somebody with a showroom condition SEC would ditch it instead of repairing it when the engine or tranny went out, and if only it were within 100 miles of me, and if only I knew about it while it was available. I think a SDC on the 126 chassis would be a unique and wonderful car. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
When I hear we make what the market wants I often wonder How do they know?. I mean how does MBUSA know they can't sell a B class here if they never sell one? I'm sure the answer is focus groups but if your focus group is People who have bought an S class in the past and might buy one in the future then the answer is of course not... My company is pretty much the same way, they killed my favorite because Nobody wants that after doing no continuing engineering (read as selling the exact same product with no updates) for 3 years. Strange that nobody wanted a product that wouldn't work on a current OS... -Curt Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 11:57:22 -0400 From: Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs Message-ID: AANLkTinA3h39qo1uQ7m=fgevrsew0xmhf2kr0-sjq...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm important not to confuse engineering and marketing. We design and test all sorts of low end features that never make it to market in the US... the engineers have nothing to do with this decision. The marketing people decide what will sell and what won't, and how to package it. Its important to note that MBUSA is a marketing and sales company before anything else, and they have nearly no development engineering. As development engineers, we just sit back and wonder how and why they make the decisions they do. This is how it works in most industries. But one thing I've noticed on these lists over the years: While the 240D crowd loves to go on and on about how MB doesn't offer what they want, the reality is that there are very few people out there that feel the same way. And the number of people in that group willing to pay $40,000+ for a new car of any kind is probably barley a handful. Like it or not, the majority of buyers want what MBUSA is selling, and thats why they are successful at doing what they do. Do I like the idea of buying a brand new W212 E220 diesel with a 6 speed and cloth seats? You bet! Can I afford it? Nope! If I could, would I really buy one? Don't know. Jaime ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
Jaime wrote: The marketing people decide what will sell and what won't, and how to package it. Jaime also wrote: Really, its all about what the market wants. Which is it? Is it - What the market wants? Or, is it - What the marketing people want? My impression is that the greedy dollar grab in today's rabid multi-national manufacturing dynasties is what wins in the end. There is no such thing as a logical market survey and satisfaction of market desires. It all gets down to bottom line investor satisfaction, not user-in-the-marketplace satisfaction. We don't need no stinking electro gizmos in the end. We need safety and delivery to our desired trip endpoints. Electrogizmos for whatever purpose can be bought in the aftermarket if we desire to remove our attention away from the primary task of getting from point A to point B and back again. I have manual windows, a clutch, manual hole in the roof (which I don't need), and non-working r12 system and the 240D gets me from here to there very well thank you. I have not ever needed airbags, anti-X gizmo, ever in my non hurried driving life. I don't intend to survive if I want to tangle against a 60-inch diameter oak tree, and I don't intend to survive if I don't notice the kenworth. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
My 126 of choice would be a 300SEL. Sure, it would be a little underpowered, but a good vergasser engine in a chassis that simply kicks ass. 'nuf said. Dan Sent from my iPod On Mar 26, 2011, at 1:42 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Dieselhead wrote: I still think an SDL is way better than anything newer, so I probably should just put money into the SDL rather than spending $ on a new car I don't even like. It is the van that I really will need to replace sometime. 126 = Great car. If only somebody with a showroom condition SEC would ditch it instead of repairing it when the engine or tranny went out, and if only it were within 100 miles of me, and if only I knew about it while it was available. I think a SDC on the 126 chassis would be a unique and wonderful car. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
Alex Chamberlain wrote: On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. On my 99, I could open or close the sunroof almost as quickly as I could shift the manual transmission. Any power sunroof is a step backwards from that. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
That is strange. The 300 gasser never seemed popular to me. On 3/26/2011 2:01 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: My 126 of choice would be a 300SEL. Sure, it would be a little underpowered, but a good vergasser engine in a chassis that simply kicks ass. 'nuf said. Dan Sent from my iPod -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 99 E430, 99 E320, 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3530 - Release Date: 03/26/11 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs and engineer like nothing else
For your perusal http://weboldtimer.com/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=45Itemid=27lang=en I will draw your attention to the ashtray (yeah I know most of you wouldn't need that) and the suspension thingy. Hendrik whose ashtrays are not that fancy Dieselhead wrote: I agree that MB has always had advanced features, and that new things appear first on the S, then on the smaller cars. (then on US cars) I always like to point out that the 62 190Dc and the 59 220b and Sb has steering locking, and the key was in the dash not on the steering column, and that it was way more study than the gm steering column lock. (didn't appear in the US until 1968, when it was a gummit mandate) They also had very effective crumple zones designed without computers. The first point is easy. If cheap compass is a Luxury car why SHOULD MB compete with it? Why would MB WANT to compete with the whole cheep lineup that are now considered luxury cars? The second point is what you brought up Engineered like no other is what MB used to be, and I think is trying to be again. However, to be engineered like no ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
I used to own an '85 300TD which was a grey-market import. NA engine, manual heat control, no AC, five speed transmission. It had a manual sunroof, which was a real pleasure once I'd properly cleaned and lubed it. I would really like to have manual sunroofs in my 124 cars if they could also incorporate the rear pop-up feature. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:33 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
According to Mombusa, Max, you don't exist. Isn't that comforting! VW had manual sunroofs. push the button and crank one way for the tip up vent. Crank the other way to open the sunroof. I used to own an '85 300TD which was a grey-market import. NA engine, manual heat control, no AC, five speed transmission. It had a manual sunroof, which was a real pleasure once I'd properly cleaned and lubed it. I would really like to have manual sunroofs in my 124 cars if they could also incorporate the rear pop-up feature. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:33 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Zoltan Finks msuchpo...@gmail.com wrote: I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Ditto here. Out of half a dozen cars I've owned with sunroofs, the only ones that never gave any trouble---no leaks or jams---were manual. And unlike windows or locks, where I think you can make a case for power operation as a safety issue (being able to lock all the doors, or roll a window other than the driver's up or down, without stretching halfway out of the driver's seat), a manual sunroof, if designed right, can be operated just as easily as a power one. On my '89 BMW 325iX, the control was a simple drop-down crank--half a turn one way popped up the rear of the roof, and a few turns the other way slid it back. On my '80 Saab 900, you grabbed a handle at the front of the roof, squeezed it together to unlatch it, and then pulled it to the rear, over your shoulder, much like the motion used to drop the top on a Miata---a wonderfully straightforward and quick operation. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] One for Jaime to carry upstairs
Yep, I love my manual windows, no ACC and manual shift. I only wish I had a manual moonroof. Brian 83 240D On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: On the radio here they have been endlessly advertising the new LUXURY car lineup compass, patriot, liberty, ...Blah blah. Now go ask your grandfather who was in WWII if a cheep is a luxury car Message to MomBUSA: If a cheap is a luxury car WHY ON EARTH would Mombusa insist on positioning Mercedes Benz as a luxury car in place of the best engineered vehicles in the world? We don't all want all the ACC and so called luxury crap. There is a market for the A class and other rest of the world models here. The plain models sold in the rest of the world will also sell here. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
