[meteorite-list] Regarding Pakepake 005 (Lunar Fragmental Breccia)

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

I classified this 44 gram meteorite and it is still in my possession; 9
grams of it is now in the IOM repository and the remaining mass of 35 grams
will be shipped back to the owner. If you look at the classification in the
MetBull you will see that I determined it to be a lunar fragmental breccia
based on electron microprobe analyses. The find history was communicated to
me by the owner which I reported verbatim in the write-up. This is normal
practice. I was quite surprised to read on the internet today that someone
is accusing Xinjiang meteorite hunters of transplanting NWAs to the
Taklamakan Desert and implying that Pakepake 005 was also transplanted from
NWA. The comment was on the MPOD website, but there was no tangible
evidence provided by the accuser other than “…the physical and chemical
weathering features were dissimilar from those of the meteorites recovered
in the Xinjiang deserts by my team…”. Obviously, such a public accusation
should be backed up with quantitative data, however none was provided. I
look forward to seeing such evidence if it exists or which tests were
carried out to prove NWA transplantation. In the meantime, it is probably a
good idea for everyone to take a deep breath and resist jumping to
unsupported conclusions. Now for a few points of clarification. This
meteorite was not sold to the owner by the finder as a lunar meteorite. It
was initially identified as a likely HED and sold as such. I was the one
who determined it to be lunar through my microprobe work. I have learned
from the owner that hunters in Xinjiang are becoming more aware that the
most valuable and rare meteorites are not necessarily magnetic like the
lion’s share of what is normally found, namely EOCs. Therefore, they are
now also on the lookout for achondrites. I believe a similar evolution took
place in NWA many years ago and now we see mostly very rare meteorites
coming from NWA because they have been high-graded by Saharan hunters and
dealers – the EOCs, unless massive, never see the meteorite market light of
day. The owner also told me that the discoverers are Uyghur people from
Xinjiang who might not easily obtain lunar meteorites from NWA to
transplant and they typically want to remain anonymous. Does this mean that
it is impossible for some of the Xinjiang meteorites to be transplanted? Of
course not, this is always a possibility with “found” meteorites – anywhere
in the world. On the other hand, am I surprised that a small lunar
meteorite was found in China’s largest sandy desert? Not at all, especially
given that there are now over 660 lunar meteorites in the MetBull, weighing
many kilograms, most of which were found in the Sahara Desert. No one bats
an eye when another ~10 kg lunar highlands breccia is found in the Sahara.
I think the more interesting question is why are there not more lunars
found elsewhere in the world like in the deserts of Antarctica, Atacama,
North America, etc. And of course, why are there no lunar falls?

*
Carl B. Agee
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

(505) 750-7172
(505) 573-5131
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Re: [meteorite-list] Strange Meteorites Found Across Earth Revealed as Fragments of The Same Baby Planet

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

The lead photo is of our Techado IIE which they measured in this
study. I don't know about Mont Dieu, Wasson classified it as a IIE,
but it was changed in 2006, no explanation for the reclassification
given in the MetBull.

*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.unm.edu/about-us/compres-president


On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 9:25 AM Anne Black via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>
>   [EXTERNAL]
>
> Something does not add up here.
> The article uses Mont Dieu as a example of IIE, the core argument in the 
> article, but Mont Dieu was re-classified as a Iron, Ungrouped in 2006.
>
>
> Anne Black
> IMPACTIKA.com
> impact...@aol.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tommy via Meteorite-list 
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2020 7:52 am
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Meteorites Found Across Earth Revealed as 
> Fragments of The Same Baby Planet
>
> https://www.sciencealert.com/a-family-of-meteorites-scattered-around-earth-are-the-fragments-of-a-baby-planet
>
> Regards!
>
> Tom
>
>
> __
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update : 51 new approvals, including many old early-NWA's, rare iron IIF, and more.

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

They are all paired with NWA 13250.

*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.unm.edu/about-us/compres-president



On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 9:25 AM Roberto Vargas via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>
>   [EXTERNAL]
>
> Interesting how all three Martian Shergottites have poikilitic texture. 
> Almost like they’re all the same material
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
> 
> From: Meteorite-list  on behalf 
> of Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list 
> 
> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 12:15:03 PM
> To: Meteorite List 
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update : 51 new approvals, including 
> many old early-NWA's, rare iron IIF, and more.
>
> Hi List,
>
> Lots of new and interesting approvals in the latest Met Bull update.
> These include some early NWAs going back to 2002.
>
> Link - 
> https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=%2A=names=contains=50=ge==All=name=All=All7=Normal%20table==1
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks : www.galactic-stone.com
> Meteorites, Ice Age Fossils, Minerals, and Artifacts
> ---
> __
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteoritical Bulletin Main Mass photos

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

I have started to add photos and sometimes graphs or figures for
exceptional samples to MetBull classifications. I agree that photos of
garden variety equilibrated OCs might not be that interesting, but
sometimes they are. For me it is no extra work to post photos since I
always have microprobe BSE images and smartphone photos of the deposit
sample. I certainly agree that added value to the MetBull is a plus.

Carl

*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.unm.edu/about-us/compres-president

*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.unm.edu/about-us/compres-president



On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:48 PM Jean Alix Barrat via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>
>   [EXTERNAL]
>
> Hello,
>
> it could be a good idea to include some pictures. However, it could be a
> false good idea. Most meteorites are not spectacular and will not be
> studied by anyone other than those who make the initial description. Who
> is interested in ordinary rusty chondrites? What outstanding science
> will be brought by these samples? Is it really important to complicate
> the work of the classifiers for these samples? Who will agree to do this
> work if the procedure becomes even more demanding?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jean-Alix
>
> Le 14/06/2020 à 20:55, Peter Marmet via Meteorite-list a écrit :
> >
> >> I have started in Meteorites group discusion that every new classification 
> >> should include few photos of specimen….
> > Excellent idea, Marcin!
> >
> > It exists for many mets from Antarctica already!  Why not for all the newly 
> > classified mets? Including thin section photos!!!
> >
> > https://tinyurl.com/ybygnu78
> >
> > BTW: I’m not too fond about facebook policy but facebook is where the 
> > meteorite world takes place!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> > __
> >
> > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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> __
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[meteorite-list] Institute of Meteoritics celebrates 75th anniversary

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

SAVE THE DATE!!

The Institute of Meteoritics, founded at UNM in 1944 as one of the
first institutions in the world devoted to the study of meteorites,
will be celebrating its 75th anniversary during UNM’s homecoming week
on Thursday and Friday, October 24th and 25th, 2019. One of the
highlights of the event will be an open house at the newly renovated
UNM Meteorite Museum which features many rare and stunning specimens
from outer space.

There will be a reception on Thursday evening, Oct 24th with lite
fare, an open house in the Meteorite Museum, interactive displays and
2 special guest speakers.

Dr. G. Jeffrey Taylor- Professor Emeritus, Hawai`i Institute of
Geophysics and Planetology

Talk Title: Determining the Bulk Chemical Composition of the Moon and
Why We Care



Dr. Harrison “Jack” Schmitt- Former Apollo 17 astronaut and U.S. Senator

Talk title: Apollo 17 and Beyond



Friday, Oct 25th will consist of a symposium with special guest
speakers…Lunch will be provided

Some of the confirmed guest speakers are:

Dr. Chris Herd - Professor in the Department of Earth and Atmospheric
Sciences at the University of Alberta

Talk title: Finding the Source Craters for the Martian Meteorites



Dr. Nina Lanza- Deputy Team Lead for Space and Planetary Exploration
at Los Alamos National Laboratory

Talk title: Zapping rocks on Mars: Past, present, and future
observations from the ChemCam and SuperCam instruments



Dr. Lars Borg - an isotope geochemist whose research has focused on
the primordial differentiation of the terrestrial planets and
asteroids

Talk Title: Isotopic Evidence for a Young Lunar Magma Ocean



Various IOM Faculty and staff scientists will also speak on Friday



To register now please follow this link: unmalumni.com/iom-75



If you are unable to attend, we invite you to support the Institute of
Meteoritics via one of the following methods:



Donate by credit card now:

https://www.unmfund.org/fund/iom-directors-fund/

For Payment by check:

Please make check payable to:

UNM Foundation and reference: IOM Director’s Fund Account - Allocation
No. 203207

Mail check directly to:

UNM Foundation

Two Woodward Center

700 Lomas Blvd NE

Albuquerque, NM 87102



NOTE:

Sponsors who would like to set up a table can register through our
registration site as a vendor. If you are a sponsor and would like a
company representative to attend the reception and/or symposium as a
vendor, please contact Beth Ha (beth...@unm.edu). Meals, lodging and
other travel expenses for the representative must be covered by the
sponsor. In lieu of having a representative present at the meeting,
you can ship us marketing materials and we will make them available at
the reception and symposium.

For additional information, or to be added to the IOM mailing list,
please email: i...@unm.edu.





Thank you!

Sincerely,

Dr. Carl Agee

*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
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Re: [meteorite-list] interstellar meteorite anyone?

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

It is regrettable that Earthlings are not technologically advanced
enough to intercept and sample interstellar objects like `Oumuamua
which entered our solar system on a hyperbolic orbit and is now gone
forever. What a missed opportunity!

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.us/about-us/compres-president



On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
> There are none we know of.
>
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newscientist.com/article/2100887-canadian-meteorite-may-be-first-visitor-from-the-kuiper-belt/amp/
>
> That article speculates that Tagish Lake might have originated from the 
> Kuiper Belt, but there is no way to confirm even that.
>
> Maybe someday Voyager will send us back a useful bit of data that somehow can 
> connect a specimen to an interstellar source.  ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> John A. Shea, MD
> IMCA 3295
>
>
>
> Sent using the mail.com mail app
>
> On 3/7/18 at 1:45 PM, matija bericic via Meteorite-list wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Does any of you maybe have in possession interstellar meteorite?
>> Thanks,
>> Matija
>> __
>>
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Re: [meteorite-list] RES: Quartz on meteorites

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Abdelfattah:
The quartz grains stuck in the sample I assume are terrestrial, of
course the H6 is meteorite!
Best regards,
Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.us/about-us/compres-president



On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Abdelfattah Gharrad via
Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> Hello all and thanks for answers and it's nice to have more idea and learning 
> from all.
>
>
> if we see grains of quartz stuck on a stone so this stone is not meteorite?
>
> a stone that I had the opportunity to see mottled with quartz grains (SiO2) 
> and it is a meteorite analyzed as H6 chondrite by Prof. Carl Agee
>
> Physical characteristics: TKW: 571 g. Dark brown exterior, saw cut reveals 
> fine grained oxidized brown interior with fine weathering veins.
>
> Petrography: (C. Agee, UNM) SEM, EDS, EMPA. Microprobe examination of a 
> polished mount shows olivine, low-Ca pyroxene, plagioclase, few small, <500 
> micron, extensively equilibrated chondrules, ubiquitous troilite, oxidized 
> kamacite, and weathering veins .
>
> Mineral compositions and Geochemistry: (C. Agee and N. Wilson, UNM) EMPA. 
> Olivine Fa19 Fe/Mn=42, low-Ca pyroxene Fs17 Wo1.4 Fe/Mn=24, plagioclase Ab81.
>
> Classification: Ordinary chondrite (H6), moderately weathered.
>
> Specimens: Oakes holds the main mass, 22.9 g including a probe mount on 
> deposit at UNM.
>
> Best regards,
> Abdelfattah.
>
>
>
> 
> En date de : Lun 25.9.17, André Moutinho via Meteorite-list 
> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> a écrit :
>
>  Objet: [meteorite-list] RES:  Quartz on meteorites
>  À: "ALAN RUBIN" <aeru...@ucla.edu>, "Abdelfattah Gharrad" 
> <agharra...@yahoo.com>, "meteorite list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>  Date: Lundi 25 septembre 2017, 17h48
>
>  Hello all,
>
>  Morro do Rocio is a Brazilian meteorite
>  that sílica was found:
>  http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1985Metic..20..467F
>
>  Best
>
>  Andre
>
>
>
>  De: Meteorite-list
>  [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]
>  Em nome de ALAN
>  RUBIN via Meteorite-list
>  Enviada em: sábado, 23 de setembro de
>  2017 21:28
>  Para: Abdelfattah Gharrad <agharra...@yahoo.com>
>  Cc: Meteoritecentral List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>  Assunto: Re: [meteorite-list] Quartz on
>  meteorites
>
>
>
>  A few meteorites do contain rare grains
>  of SiO2 including tridymite,
>  quartz and cristobalite, but generally
>  these grains are quite small
>  and intergrown with other silicate
>  phases. Some IVA irons contain a
>  few blades of trydimite, but if you see
>  a rock with several percent or
>  more of quartz grains that are
>  millimeter size or larger, it will not
>  be a meteorite.
>
>
>
>  On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 4:46 PM,
>  Abdelfattah Gharrad via
>  Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>  wrote:
>
>  Hello members,
>
>  I really want to post my question about
>  quartz longtimes ago,   what I
>  learned that if one sees quartz on a
>  stone then the stone is not
>  meteorite.
>  in my knowledge there are different
>  types of quartz and whose chemical
>  formula is SiO2.
>
>  habitually no quartz in the meteorites
>  but if there is in a meteorite
>  then it is a rare stone and whose
>  classification differs from other
>  meteorites and testimony of another
>  planet it's just opinion.
>
>  I think that the meteorites have
>  chemical compositions like the
>  terrestrial stones (magmatic, volcanic
>  ...). the probability that a
>  meteorite contains SiO2 is not zero.
>
>  if there is a clarification please.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Abdelfattah.
>  __
>
>  Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral
>  and
>  the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>  Meteorite-list mailing list
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>  https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>
>  Alan Rubin
>
>  Institute of Geophysics and Planetary
>  Physics
>
>  Department of Earth, Planetary, and
>  Space Sciences
>
>  University of California
>
>  3845 Slichter Hall
&

Re: [meteorite-list] Quartz on meteorites

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Hi Alan,

Perhaps you missed our talks at MetSoc:

https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2017/pdf/6129.pdf
https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2017/pdf/6268.pdf

NWA 9 has more than 20% silica polymorphs (mix of tridymite and
cristobalite).

Best regards,

Carl

*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.us/about-us/compres-president



On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 6:28 PM, ALAN RUBIN via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
> A few meteorites do contain rare grains of SiO2 including tridymite, quartz
> and cristobalite, but generally these grains are quite small and intergrown
> with other silicate phases. Some IVA irons contain a few blades of
> trydimite, but if you see a rock with several percent or more of quartz
> grains that are millimeter size or larger, it will not be a meteorite.
>
> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Abdelfattah Gharrad via Meteorite-list
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hello members,
>>
>> I really want to post my question about quartz longtimes ago,   what I
>> learned that if one sees quartz on a stone then the stone is not meteorite.
>> in my knowledge there are different types of quartz and whose chemical
>> formula is SiO2.
>>
>> habitually no quartz in the meteorites but if there is in a meteorite then
>> it is a rare stone and whose classification differs from other meteorites
>> and testimony of another planet it's just opinion.
>>
>> I think that the meteorites have chemical compositions like the
>> terrestrial stones (magmatic, volcanic ...). the probability that a
>> meteorite contains SiO2 is not zero.
>>
>> if there is a clarification please.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Abdelfattah.
>> __
>>
>> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the
>> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alan Rubin
> Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
> Department of Earth, Planetary, and Space Sciences
> University of California
> 3845 Slichter Hall
> 603 Charles Young Dr. E
> Los Angeles, CA  90095-1567
> USA
>
> office phone: 310-825-3202
> fax: 310-206-3051
> e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu
> website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html
>
>
> __
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Testing meteoric gemstones

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Distinguishing between terrestrial olivine and pallasite olivine
probably isn't quick and easy. Electron microprobe would show the
difference in the Fe/Mn which is diagnostic. I've never used one, but
a handheld XRF might be able to do this too. If you don't mind
vaporizing the stone with a laser -- the oxygen isotopes are
diagnostic :) :) :)

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.us/about-us/compres-president



On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 12:16 PM, tracy latimer via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
> Once again, I have found someone on ebay (surprise factor zero, Captain!) 
> selling what I am convinced are fake pallasite cut gems.  Unlike the last 
> fake seller I confronted, this seller seems willing to entertain the idea he 
> may have a fake or two, and wants to look into having them tested.  Are there 
> any quick and nasty tests an amateur or garden variety jeweler can do that 
> will confirm whether the cut gemstone is a. an olivine  and b. 
> extraterrestrial?  Alternately, can anyone suggest reputable testing places 
> where he could have his stones evaluated (he's in Canada)?  It would be 
> annoying to spend a couple hundred dollars on testing, only to find you had a 
> nice bit of faceted glass or garnet. 
>
> Best!
> Tracy Latimer
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] Article : 21st Century Meteorite Falls, Part Two

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Always an interesting topic!

A couple of things come to mind:

Morocco has 8 falls in the 21st century, which you suggest has to do
with the meteorite-savvy population and desert terrain. California has
a very similar area and population density -- also a west facing coast
line, a fair amount of desert, and a mountain range. How many 21st
century falls in CA?

We are over-due for a lunar falls! There are now 265 classified lunars
-- all of them finds. Compare that with 5 martian falls and 177
classified finds, or for example mesosiderites with 6 falls and 261
classified finds. Aubrites have 9 falls and 63 finds.

Brachinites have no falls (40 finds), any others?

Carl


*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.us/about-us/compres-president



On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via
Meteorite-list  wrote:
> "...In the first 10 years of the 21st Century, we have seen 58 new
> meteorite falls (as of this writing). As we close out the first decade
> of this new century, let us examine some of the facts and numbers
> surrounding these recent falls. For the purposes of this article, we
> will only examine those falls which have been officially recognized by
> the Meteoritical Society. There have been a few documented falls that
> have not been approved yet (Zunhua and Cartersville), so these falls
> will not be included in this analysis..."
>
> I wrote the above introductory paragraph nearly 6 years ago (early
> 2010) when I did my first analysis of recent meteorite fall
> statistics. More than 5 years later, we have had 40 more
> officially-recognized falls. In that same span of time, we have also
> had Breja, Addison, Oslo, Mahbse Aarraid, and the recent White
> Mountains fall that are well documented falls that have not been
> approved or published in the Met Bull.  A quick look at the overall
> numbers shows a very slight increase in the number of approved falls
> in the last 6 years compared to the previous 9.5 years. This is likely
> due, in part, to increased awareness of meteorites and increased
> recovery rates.
>
> Also, it seems that NonCom has been moving a bit faster to approve new
> falls and publish them in the Met Bull. Taking all of these recent
> falls into account, we have now had 98 official falls since the year
> 2000. If one chooses to include the recent unofficial falls which will
> likely be approved in the near future, then we have had over 100
> meteorite falls in the 21st century.
>
> So, in the first 16 years (2000-2016) of this century, we have
> averaged just over 6 approved falls per year.  This represents an
> uptick in the average number of approved falls compared to the
> previous period of 2000-2010 where the average was 5. This is not so
> clear cut though, because a couple of older falls were approved in the
> years since, including Zunhua (as it was known in 2010), which was
> approved in late 2015 as Xinglongquan. For tidy conversational
> purposes, it's safe to say that we expect about 5 to 6 new approved
> falls each year. A number of 5 per year being more conservative and
> closer to 6 if you take into account that some falls are not recovered
> or approved until a year or more after the date of their fall.
>
> Now let's take a look at the numbers and have some fun with them :
> Which petrologic type do you think was the most common type recovered
> during the first 16 years of this century?
>
> Well, it's safe to say that it is an ordinary chondrite. No surprises there.
>
> More specifically, we have a tie between L6 and H5 chondrites at 23 each.
>
> Anyone want to guess what the third most common type is?
> The third most common is the L5 chondrite with 10 approvals.
> Well, surely the fourth most common is probably an H chondrite, right? Wrong.
>
> The fourth most common type is the eucrites with 7.
>
> Wait, that seems like too many Vestans! How can eucrite be in the top
> 4 common types? The answer is simple, it's because we are playing
> semantics with petrologic grades here.
>
> There have been 23 L6 chondrites, 23 H5 chondrites, 10 L5 chondrites,
> and 7 eucrites. But, there are many subtypes of H and L chondrites
> that are approved by NonCom, compared to the much smaller clan of
> eucrites. In total, there were 42 L chondrites and 40 H chondrites of
> various petrologic grades (L3, L4, L5, L6, etc) compared to just 7
> eucrites. Throw in the 10 LL chondrites that were approved and the
> numbers become more lopsided in favor of ordinary chondrites over
> eucrites - 92 to 7.
>
> After the ordinary chondrites and eucrites, the most numerous of
> meteorites recovered from 2000 to 2016 were carbonaceous chondrites
> followed by a 

Re: [meteorite-list] Kalahari Lunars

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

According to the MetBull there are 20 gram samples and thin sections
of both 008  and 009 at Universität Münster, Münster, Germany. There
has been science done on Kalahari 008 and 009. Aside from microprobe,
they have radiometric ages, oxygen isotopes, as well as cosmic ray
exposure. As Randy Korotev notes, they are totally different rocks but
with similar lunar ejection ages - only 350 ± 120 yr for Kalahari 008
and 220 ± 40 yr for Kalahari 009, which are the shortest exposure ages
of any meteorite.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.us/about-us/compres-president



On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
> In other words, they are worthless from a monetary standpoint just like
> meteorites found on public lands here in the United States and many other
> countries.
>
> The best that could be hoped for, if they still or ever existed,  is that
> they are made available for scientific research from the government that
> owns them.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Chauncey Walden via Meteorite-list"
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 8:58 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Kalahari Lunars
>
>
>
>> There remains the fact that if any of this material actually appears in
>> the market it would immediately be claimed by the government of Botswana.
>> Their President has a keen interest in meteorites. That being said, the last
>> time I was in the Central Kalahari on photographic safari I definitely kept
>> an eye out for rocks. The White Kalahari has hundreds of feet of sand with
>> organics but rocks are rare.
>> Chauncey
>> __
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>
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Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 5000 Goes Ivy League - NEW Display at Yale!

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

There are some abstracts on Kalahari 008 and 009.

Randy Korotev and the Lunar Meteorite Compendium show some data.

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/kalahari008.htm

http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/antmet/lmc/M5%20Kalahari.pdf

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
http://compres.us/about-us/compres-president



On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via
Meteorite-list  wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I think the mystery surrounding the Kalahari lunars is what makes them
> interesting. I have asked about them in the past and nobody seems to
> know much about them. From what I have read, they have been
> classified, but have never been made available to collectors. I do not
> know of a single private collector who has a specimen of these
> meteorites. I also cannot find any academic papers or articles about
> these meteorites. Their only documentation appears to be the brief
> entries in the Meteoritical Bulletin.
>
> Are there any photos of these meteorites available? Does anyone own a
> specimen of these meteorites? Where are they now? Have any scientists
> in the western world examined or worked with any specimens?
>
> NWA 5000 is, without a doubt, the most aesthetically appealing lunar
> meteorite in the world. I do not think there is any debate over that
> fact. Other lunars are attractive, but NWA 5000 is in a class of it's
> own. NWA 5000 is also one of the most well-known lunars. It has been
> photographed, exhibited, studied, and published countless times. But,
> it's claim to be the "world's largest lunar" will always have
> questions surrounding it because of Kalahari 009.  I think it is safe
> to say, for now, that NWA 5000 is the most documented large lunar, but
> some curious parties would like to see the Kalahari 009 mass.
>
> Who is sitting on the Kalahari 009 mass, and why don't they make
> photos or specimens available? Is it just sitting in a museum
> somewhere in Botswana?  And if so, why doesn't somebody visit that
> museum and snap a photo of it?
>
> I'm not trying to throw shade at NWA 5000 - I am just curious about
> the about large lunars, and would love to see what the Kalahari 009
> mass looks like.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/7/16, Mendy Ouzillou via Meteorite-list
>  wrote:
>> Graham,
>>
>>
>>
>> EXACTLY my thoughts!
>>
>>
>>
>> Mendy
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
>> Behalf Of Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 3:42 AM
>> To: Greg Hupe 
>> Cc: meteorite list 
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 5000 Goes Ivy League - NEW Display at
>> Yale!
>>
>>
>>
>> Great to see this happen. Just love it when exciting new meteorite displays
>> emerge and collaborations between museums, the  scientific community and the
>> general meteorite community work out. NWA 5000 is still the most beautiful
>> lunar in my opinion even though in the last couple of years a large number
>> of others have been found...I think you have a few of them Darryl ;-)
>>
>> Which brings me to the Kalahari 009 mass which has always intrigued me. Does
>> anyone know more detail about the story behind this meteorite...I would love
>> to know more, or see photos details etc...and I'm sure many more in our
>> community would too.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Graham
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:01 AM, Greg Hupe via Meteorite-list
>> >  > wrote:
>>
>> Thank you, Darryl,
>>
>> For your opinion of and the,  ['legal classification'] of term, "The World's
>> Largest Lunar Meteorite."
>>
>> First, 'Kalahari "Anything Lunar-Related" has NEVER been physically and/or
>> photographically proven to be valid!
>>
>> Secondly as you, (as a Professional 'World-Wide' Meteorite Dealer &
>> Motivator) states, "[{Questionable lunar rock (Darryl's mention}]... recent
>> lunar fits together as a jigsaw which is more than twice as massive [as NWA
>> 5000]"
>>
>> MARKETING ~ On Your Part...
>>
>> We've only presented a "PUBLIC DISPLAY" of NORTHWEST AFRICA 5000 (NWA 5000)
>> of something I've been able to share without the Greed of ManKIND. My
>> pursuit of this project was to draw 'ManKIND' back together with my team
>> NOTHING IS FOR {SALE} Thank you for taking a 'couple seconds' to
>> 'Consider Your Thoughts' by my sharing a wonderful moment to 'Those Who
>> Deserve It' !!!
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> 
>> Greg Hupe
>> The 

Re: [meteorite-list] Confessions of a Meteorite Hunter

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

FYI - Nina Lanza is an alumna of IOM/UNM, receiving her Ph.D. in 2011.
*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 5:22 PM, drtanuki via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
> http://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/confessions-of-a-meteorite-hunter/
>
>
> Please use the actual URL- Thanks Tom!
>  Dirk Ross...Tokyo The Latest Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News 
> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Tommy via Meteorite-list 
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 8:41 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Confessions of a Meteorite Hunter
>
>
> http://bit.ly/1Sv71V2
>
>
> Regards!
>
> Tom
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Not to bore everyone, but I'll repost thisexcerpt from Lincoln LaPaz's
(founder of IOM)
"Space Nomads: Meteorites in Sky, Field, and Laboratory". It is as
true today as it was when the IOM was founded in 1944! Also relevant
to this discussion I believe...


"Meteorite hunting, unlike pure mathematics, cannot be conducted with
success solely by publicity-shy individuals comfortably seated in
armchairs. Unlike the chemist, who buys his research materials from
catalogs; the bacteriologist, who brews up his cultures at will in a
laboratory; and the botanist, who finds the objects of his
experimentation in conveniently located greenhouse and herbarium, the
meteoriticist is in large measure dependent on the general public for
the specimens with which he works. In meteoritics, as in perhaps no
other science, rapid progress depends on the intelligent cooperation
of the layman, that fortunate individual destined, because of his
ubiquitousness, not only to witness all meteorites yet to fall, but
also, sooner or later, to stumble upon many of those that have already
fallen..."


*
Carl B. Agee
President, Consortium for Materials Properties Research in Earth
Sciences (COMPRES)
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:04 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via
Meteorite-list  wrote:
> Hi Ian and List,
>
> Yes, we can all play keyboard king and tell the governments and the
> world how we think things should be done. There will never be an ideal
> world and compromises must be made to keep everyone relatively happy
> (or at least content or apathetic). I agree that nobody's system is
> perfect, regardless of national boundaries.
>
> Comparing meteorites to collecting baseball cards is disingenuous.
> Rock and mineral collecting is one of the oldest expressions of
> geology. Amateur participation in that field has a long established
> history that has benefited museums and science over the years. For
> some people, meteorites are another rock to collect. For some they are
> research material. For some they are national treasures. Ultimately,
> who "owns" a meteorite? Do we really want some bureaucrat deciding
> that? Isn't this a case where common sense (ha!) should apply?  Or,
> call the lawyers and give them a pile of money to figure it out.
>
> I do not see the kind of rampant fraud and chicanery that Ian is
> talking about. Sure, any marketplace has crooks (some vendors, some
> buyers) and one has to only look at other collectible markets like
> autographs or Tiffany glass to see that fraud is "rampant" there was
> well. It all comes down to trust. If you don't trust the vendor's
> honesty and expertise, then avoid their sales pitches.
>
> "> I constantly see deception, fraud, ridiculous pricing, items stolen out of
>> countries, governments and scientists disrespected, incorrectly described
>> items, dubious provenance, destroyed samples, tiny fragments, endless
>> provenance hand balling etc etc"
>
> Where are you looking exactly?  eBay?  Craigslist?  Boot sales?  You
> can also buy a million types of snake oil at those same venues. It
> doesn't mean it's a problem that is endemic in any given field that
> sells or buys at that venue. Most known members of this mailing list
> are trustworthy. We all know who is and who isn't.  And the people who
> are crooks get run out of town pretty quick. There are a few of us who
> might be eccentrics, anti-socials, egotists, blowhards, or some other
> species of the common jerk, but you know who to trust when it comes to
> authenticity. The field sorts itself out and the informed buyer
> chooses from well-established and reputable sources.
>
> Nobody likes thieves or scammers and the only issue I have with the
> list of negative attributes on your list is "tiny fragments".  As
> someone who has owned, traded, and sold his share of tiny fragments,
> that is not a negative thing that should be lumped in with thievery.
>
> As I am sure you are aware, most scientific analysis doesn't require
> large volumes of material, especially redundant materials for
> diminishing/no scientific gain. Even a 3mg Bessey Speck is big enough
> for the microprobe and then some.  It's scientific value might be
> extremely limited if that speck represents yet another unremarkable H5
> W4 from the NWA DCA.
>
> What about the samples from scientifically-interesting material like
> NWA 7038?  How much science could be done with a "tiny fragment" of
> that?  Speaking of remarkable meteorites with scientific value, the
> recent Martian NWA 7038 was found by someone who never saw the inside
> of a classroom, traded to another person with no degrees, and sold to
> another guy with no letters after his 

Re: [meteorite-list] UNM Meteorite Museum re-opening

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Thanks for the kind words Ruben!

I just came across this excerpt from Lincoln LaPaz's (founder of IOM)
"Space Nomads: Meteorites in Sky, Field, and Laboratory". It is as
true today as it was when the IOM was founded in 1944!

"Meteorite hunting, unlike pure mathematics, cannot be conducted with
success solely by publicity-shy individuals comfortably seated in
armchairs. Unlike the chemist, who buys his research materials from
catalogs; the bacteriologist, who brews up his cultures at will in a
laboratory; and the botanist, who finds the objects of his
experimentation in conveniently located greenhouse and herbarium, the
meteoriticist is in large measure dependent on the general public for
the specimens with which he works. In meteoritics, as in perhaps no
other science, rapid progress depends on the intelligent cooperation
of the layman, that fortunate individual destined, because of his
ubiquitousness, not only to witness all meteorites yet to fall, but
also, sooner or later, to stumble upon many of those that have already
fallen..."
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Ruben Garcia
<rubengarcia85...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, Congratulations Carl, I couldn't be happier for you!
>
> It looks fantastic from the video and I can't wait to see it for
> myself in person, it's just another step forward for UNM. Meteorite
> museum renovations seem to be popluar now days, first ASU, then TCU
> and now UNM.
>
> You have done an amazing job at UNM. You inspire so many of us with
> your knowledge and enthusiasm for meteoritics.
>
> Keep it up!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Carl Agee via Meteorite-list
> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>> http://news.unm.edu/news/unm-s-meteorite-museum-reopens-with-futuristic-design
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBiM4f9Eajs
>>
>> *
>> Carl B. Agee
>> Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
>> Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
>> MSC03 2050
>> University of New Mexico
>> Albuquerque NM 87131-1126
>>
>> Tel: (505) 750-7172
>> Fax: (505) 277-3577
>> Email: a...@unm.edu
>> http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
>> __
>>
>> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
>> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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>> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> --
> Rock On!
>
> Ruben Garcia
> http://www.MrMeteorite.com
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[meteorite-list] UNM Meteorite Museum re-opening

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

http://news.unm.edu/news/unm-s-meteorite-museum-reopens-with-futuristic-design

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBiM4f9Eajs

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Supply and Demand

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

One more thought and then I'll give it a rest. Regarding the current
supply of lunar meteorites (and to a lesser degree martian
meteorites), the only place where these are being found right now is
NWA. There are virtually no lunars coming out of Antarctica, and only
the sporadic martian. There still has never been a documented lunar
fall, never a North American lunar find. People, these objects are
super rare! Maybe the market is flooded right now, but I doubt if this
NWA flood is sustainable. Once these bargain lunars get bought up
and squirreled away in collections, say a few years from now, the
prices will go back up and they will continue to be seen as among the
very rarest meteorite types.

Carl Agee


*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Here is another measure of current meteorite supply.
 Angrites seem to be among the most scarce.
 -Carl Agee


 MetBull 103

 2174 Ordinary chondrites

 130 HED achondrites

 113 Carbonaceous chondrites

 41 Ureilites

 27 Lunar meteorites

 24 Enstatite chondrites

 21 Iron meteorites

 15 Primitive achondrites

 11 Mesosiderites

 10 Martian meteorites

 6 Rumuruti chondrites

 5 Ungrouped achondrites

 2 Enstatite achondrites

 1 Relict meteorite

 1 Pallasite

 1 Angrite



 MetBull 102

 2611 Ordinary chondrites

 264 HED achondrites

 124 Carbonaceous chondrites

 30 Ureilites

 20 Martian meteorites

 16 Primitive achondrites

 16 Rumuruti chondrites

 15 Mesosiderites

 12 Iron meteorites

 10 Lunar meteorites,

 9 Enstatite chondrites

 4 Enstatite achondrites

 4 Pallasites

 4 Ungrouped achondrites

 2 Angrites



 MetBull 101

 2308 Ordinary chondrites

 156 Carbonaceous chondrites

 63 HED achondrites

 17 Relict meteorites

 16 Rumuruti chondrites

 15 Enstatite chondrites

 15 Ureilites

 10 Iron meteorites

 9 Lunar meteorites

 9 Primitive achondrites

 8 Ungrouped achondrites

 7 Mesosiderites

 4 Martian meteorites

 2 Pallasites



 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
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[meteorite-list] Meteorite Supply and Demand

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Here is another measure of current meteorite supply.
Angrites seem to be among the most scarce.
-Carl Agee


MetBull 103

2174 Ordinary chondrites

130 HED achondrites

113 Carbonaceous chondrites

41 Ureilites

27 Lunar meteorites

24 Enstatite chondrites

21 Iron meteorites

15 Primitive achondrites

11 Mesosiderites

10 Martian meteorites

6 Rumuruti chondrites

5 Ungrouped achondrites

2 Enstatite achondrites

1 Relict meteorite

1 Pallasite

1 Angrite



MetBull 102

2611 Ordinary chondrites

264 HED achondrites

124 Carbonaceous chondrites

30 Ureilites

20 Martian meteorites

16 Primitive achondrites

16 Rumuruti chondrites

15 Mesosiderites

12 Iron meteorites

10 Lunar meteorites,

9 Enstatite chondrites

4 Enstatite achondrites

4 Pallasites

4 Ungrouped achondrites

2 Angrites



MetBull 101

2308 Ordinary chondrites

156 Carbonaceous chondrites

63 HED achondrites

17 Relict meteorites

16 Rumuruti chondrites

15 Enstatite chondrites

15 Ureilites

10 Iron meteorites

9 Lunar meteorites

9 Primitive achondrites

8 Ungrouped achondrites

7 Mesosiderites

4 Martian meteorites

2 Pallasites



*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
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Re: [meteorite-list] Lunar meteorites selling for peanuts

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Supply and demand could be part of the story for lunars, maybe not for
martians. Here are the numbers for just new NWA lunars since 2010:

2010: 11
2011: 6
2012: 4
2013: 13
2014: 25

Here is the same time frame for NWA Martians:

2010: 11
2011: 6
2012: 4
2013: 10
2014: 12

Of course hidden in these numbers are TKW, quality, pairing, and type.
Obviously rarities like mare basalts, nakhlites, and chassignites
shouldn't be seeing price drops or decrease in demand. Not to mention
unique martians like NWA 7034 (Black Beauty) and NWA 8159. Maybe the
drop in price/demand is most pronounced in types that are most common
such as the lunar feldspathic breccias.

Just my opinion, but I don't think lunars will ever become as cheap as
eucrites, I think they are still quite rare on Earth and will be a
good long term investment. Maybe we are just seeing an anomaly in the
lunar offerings because a few recent big TKW  finds of lunars. Who
knows!

Carl Agee

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Shawn Alan via Meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 Hello Listers

 I am starting to see a trend with Lunar and Martian meteorites, but
 especial with Lunar's. Some can be had for $300 per gram or less, or
 some times on ebay you can get a steal on some of the 1g plus sizes for
 less then $400 a gram. But again at the sub gram leave the price is
 still in the high $500 to $800 per gram which is expected at that size.

 My question is, is there new product on the market or has planataries
 shifted in value?

 Shawn Alan
 IMCA 1633
 ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html
 Website http://meteoritefalls.com

 __

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Re: [meteorite-list] Lunar meteorites selling for peanuts

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Sorry here is correct list, somehow the first three entries for lunars
got duplicated in the martians.

Here are the numbers for just new NWA lunars since 2010:

2010: 11
2011: 6
2012: 4
2013: 13
2014: 25

Here is the same time frame for NWA Martians:

2010: 2
2011: 8
2012: 8
2013: 10
2014: 12
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Supply and demand could be part of the story for lunars, maybe not for
 martians. Here are the numbers for just new NWA lunars since 2010:

 2010: 11
 2011: 6
 2012: 4
 2013: 13
 2014: 25

 Here is the same time frame for NWA Martians:

 2010: 11
 2011: 6
 2012: 4
 2013: 10
 2014: 12

 Of course hidden in these numbers are TKW, quality, pairing, and type.
 Obviously rarities like mare basalts, nakhlites, and chassignites
 shouldn't be seeing price drops or decrease in demand. Not to mention
 unique martians like NWA 7034 (Black Beauty) and NWA 8159. Maybe the
 drop in price/demand is most pronounced in types that are most common
 such as the lunar feldspathic breccias.

 Just my opinion, but I don't think lunars will ever become as cheap as
 eucrites, I think they are still quite rare on Earth and will be a
 good long term investment. Maybe we are just seeing an anomaly in the
 lunar offerings because a few recent big TKW  finds of lunars. Who
 knows!

 Carl Agee

 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Shawn Alan via Meteorite-list
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 Hello Listers

 I am starting to see a trend with Lunar and Martian meteorites, but
 especial with Lunar's. Some can be had for $300 per gram or less, or
 some times on ebay you can get a steal on some of the 1g plus sizes for
 less then $400 a gram. But again at the sub gram leave the price is
 still in the high $500 to $800 per gram which is expected at that size.

 My question is, is there new product on the market or has planataries
 shifted in value?

 Shawn Alan
 IMCA 1633
 ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html
 Website http://meteoritefalls.com

 __

 Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
 Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Happy birthday to the Giants

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

And Norton is still the world's largest achondrite. A miracle that it
stayed together in the 1 ton mass, most of the aubrite is very
friable, except the nice sized enstatite crystals thoughout. They just
don't make falls like the used to!

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Frank Cressy via Meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 February 17 and 18 are the birthdays of the two largest meteorites to fall in 
 the US.  On February 17, 1930 the Paragould meteorite fell in the 
 northeastern corner of Arkansas.  The 820 pound stone recovered from the fall 
 was the largest meteorite recovered from a witnessed fall in the US to that 
 time.

 Eighteen years later, on February 18, 1948, the Norton County aubrite fell 
 near the Kansas-Nebraska border.  The 2360 pound main mass was found on July 
 3 and later recovered from a 10 foot deep hole.  It remains the largest stone 
 meteorite seen to fall in the US and the second largest largest fall in the 
 world after the Jilin, China meteorite that fell on March 8, 1976.

 Cheers,

 Frank

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Re: [meteorite-list] Important Announcement form the Nomenclature Committee

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Mriera is being re-voted in light of the new data from Albert Jambon.
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Matt Morgan m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote:
 Also Mriera should be a fall. Jambon did the neuclides on it and clearly 
 falls in the timeframe i first suggested.

 I can give that info to whomever wants it.
 Matt

 On February 14, 2015 12:04:53 PM MST, Galactic Stone  Ironworks via 
 Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
Hi Carl and List,

Thank you for this update on the change.  However, what exactly does
this mean in practice?

For example, would a find with coordinates like Mreira now be
classified as a NWA 10xxx ?

Or will finds with firm reliable coordinates still be considered for a
place name and not a NWA 10xxx?

On this page, I can see the crossed out portion about NWAs that was
abolished.  But what else has changed in regards to policy about
classifying NWA material? - http://meteoriticalsociety.org/?page_id=59

Best regards,

MikeG

 --
 Matt Morgan
 Mile High Meteorites
 PO Box 151293
 Lakewood CO 80215 USA
 http://www.mhmeteorites.com
 Find Us on Facebook

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Re: [meteorite-list] Important Announcement form the Nomenclature Committee

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Hi Mike,

In a nutshell, the new rules allow geographic names for any Moroccan
meteorite with find coordinates. To simplify the naming in desert
areas, part of Morocco will have DCA grids. Under the new rules, any
meteorite without coordinates, originating in Morocco or surroundings
(meaning in practical terms purchased in Morocco) will be given a NWA
name. The new style NWAs will start with NWA 10001 to set them apart
from the old style NWA rules. There will be no retroactive names
assigned in this new scheme. Nothing will change in the naming of
falls, which will always have unique geographic names.

Hope this clarifies.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Carl and List,

 Thank you for this update on the change.  However, what exactly does
 this mean in practice?

 For example, would a find with coordinates like Mreira now be
 classified as a NWA 10xxx ?

 Or will finds with firm reliable coordinates still be considered for a
 place name and not a NWA 10xxx?

 On this page, I can see the crossed out portion about NWAs that was
 abolished.  But what else has changed in regards to policy about
 classifying NWA material? - http://meteoriticalsociety.org/?page_id=59

 Best regards,

 MikeG

 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 -


 On 2/13/15, Carl Agee via Meteorite-list
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/MetBullNews.php?id=3

 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
 __

 Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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[meteorite-list] Fwd: Important Announcement form the Nomenclature Committee

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
Date: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Important Announcement form the
Nomenclature Committee
To: Matt Morgan m...@mhmeteorites.com
Cc: Galactic Stone  Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com, Galactic
Stone  Ironworks via Meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com


Mriera is being re-voted in light of the new data from Albert Jambon.

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Matt Morgan m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote:
 Also Mriera should be a fall. Jambon did the neuclides on it and clearly 
 falls in the timeframe i first suggested.

 I can give that info to whomever wants it.
 Matt

 On February 14, 2015 12:04:53 PM MST, Galactic Stone  Ironworks via 
 Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
Hi Carl and List,

Thank you for this update on the change.  However, what exactly does
this mean in practice?

For example, would a find with coordinates like Mreira now be
classified as a NWA 10xxx ?

Or will finds with firm reliable coordinates still be considered for a
place name and not a NWA 10xxx?

On this page, I can see the crossed out portion about NWAs that was
abolished.  But what else has changed in regards to policy about
classifying NWA material? - http://meteoriticalsociety.org/?page_id=59

Best regards,

MikeG

 --
 Matt Morgan
 Mile High Meteorites
 PO Box 151293
 Lakewood CO 80215 USA
 http://www.mhmeteorites.com
 Find Us on Facebook

__

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Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 8159 in Tucson

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

That would be Anne -- lol
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Hi Ann,

 I am in midst of preparing a full paper on NWA 8159 for peer-review.
 In the meantime, here are some conference abstracts that have more
 info than the MetBull entry:

 http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2014/pdf/2036.pdf

 http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2014/pdf/5397.pdf

 It is a unique new martian meteorite type for a number of reasons, to
 mention a few: age, shock, mineralogy, isotopes.

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Anne Black via Meteorite-list
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 I am curious.
 I did look up this martian, NWA 8159 in the Met. Bulletin, odd rock with 
 characteristics of all 3 of the SNC, so what is it?
 An heterogeneous meteorite?
 The missing link between all 3 martians?
 A mixture of types, something like Almahata Sitta???

 I did read the description on the Met.Bulletin but is there more written 
 about it?  Any papers published yet?
 Did anyone take any pictures of that rock?
 Would any of that explain the surprising price of $15 000.00 a gram?

 Still curious.

 Anne M. Black
 www.IMPACTIKA.com
 impact...@aol.com

 __

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Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 8159 in Tucson

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Hi Ann,

I am in midst of preparing a full paper on NWA 8159 for peer-review.
In the meantime, here are some conference abstracts that have more
info than the MetBull entry:

http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2014/pdf/2036.pdf

http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2014/pdf/5397.pdf

It is a unique new martian meteorite type for a number of reasons, to
mention a few: age, shock, mineralogy, isotopes.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Anne Black via Meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 I am curious.
 I did look up this martian, NWA 8159 in the Met. Bulletin, odd rock with 
 characteristics of all 3 of the SNC, so what is it?
 An heterogeneous meteorite?
 The missing link between all 3 martians?
 A mixture of types, something like Almahata Sitta???

 I did read the description on the Met.Bulletin but is there more written 
 about it?  Any papers published yet?
 Did anyone take any pictures of that rock?
 Would any of that explain the surprising price of $15 000.00 a gram?

 Still curious.

 Anne M. Black
 www.IMPACTIKA.com
 impact...@aol.com

 __

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 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
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[meteorite-list] Important Announcement form the Nomenclature Committee

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/MetBullNews.php?id=3

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
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Re: [meteorite-list] Middle school students lobbying Kansas lawmakers to declare official state rock

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

True, there are more Lone Star meteorites total than any other state,
but we were ranking by density of meteorites, and Texas' meteorite
density is a paltry 0.00113 per square mile.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Shawn Alan
shawna...@meteoritefalls.com wrote:
 Hello Listers

 Have you heard of the saying Don't mess with Texas

 305 records found for valid meteorites from United States with places
 that are exactly Texas

 And these meteorite finds/Falls come from different localities

 Shawn Alan
 IMCA 1633
 ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html
 Website http://meteoritefalls.com

  Original Message 
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Middle school students lobbying Kansas
 lawmakers to declare official state rock
 From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
 Date: Wed, January 28, 2015 2:55 pm
 To: Shawn Alan shawna...@meteoritefalls.com
 Cc: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com, Mendy Ouzillou
 mendy.ouzil...@gmail.com,  Meteorite Central
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com


 I count 225 New Mexico meteorites in the MetBull. That is 0.00185
 meteorites per square mile.

 If Kansas has 143 meteorites, then that is 0.00174 meteorites per square 
 mile.

 I think that puts the Land of Enchantment as the #1 meteorite state :) :)


 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Shawn Alan via Meteorite-list
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
  Hello Listers
 
  I agree Brenham is be the best suited state meteorite Michael.
  If NY was doing this, it would have to be Peekskill to be the state
  rock.
 
  Mendy I think the teacher was going off the info from  Meteoritical
  Bulletin Database
 
  Here are the results I gathered from there.
 
  116 records found for valid meteorites from United States with places
  that are exactly Nevada
 
  130 records found for valid meteorites from United States with places
  that are exactly Arizona
 
  143 records found for valid meteorites from United States with places
  that are exactly Kansas
 
 
  Shawn Alan
  IMCA 1633
  ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html
  Website http://meteoritefalls.com
 
   Original Message 
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Middle school students lobbying Kansas
  lawmakers to declare official state rock
  From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com
  Date: Wed, January 28, 2015 11:37 am
  To: Mendy Ouzillou mendy.ouzil...@gmail.com
  Cc: Shawn Alan shawna...@meteoritefalls.com, Meteorite Central
  meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 
 
  Why would Cabin Creek be a better choice? It is from Arkansas.
  Brenham, definitely
 
  Michael Farmer
 
   On Jan 28, 2015, at 9:02 AM, Mendy Ouzillou via Meteorite-list 
   meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
  
   I'm just probably a meanie, but I think this effort is misguided
   though certainly better than making the state rock limestone. The
   children calculated that somehow, Kansas has more meteorites per
   square mile (not sure if finds, falls, or hits) than anywhere else in
   the US (if finds then sorry Arizona and Nevada). I am happy to see
   that calculations were done though disappointed that their teacher did
   not better guide their efforts. Finally, the picture in the article is
   clearly of a beautiful Sikhote Alin. I wonder how well that will go
   over with the state legislators. Maybe Cabin Creek would have been a
   better choice. :-)
  
   Mendy
  
  
  
   On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 1:38 AM, Shawn Alan via Meteorite-list
   meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
   Hello Listers
  
   I hope it passes be cool for Kansas have a meteorite for a state rock 
   :)
  
   Shawn Alan
   IMCA 1633
   ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html
   Website http://meteoritefalls.com
  
  
   SHAWNEE, Kan. – A group of local middle school students are lobbying
   to change state history. The students with Monticello Trails Middle
   School, which is part of the De Soto School District, are headed to
   Topeka to argue for an official state rock.
  
   Chris Sprenger, an 8th grade student at the school, is determined to
   make the meteorite the official Kansas state rock.
  
   “The meteorite really has a connection with Kansas that it really
   doesn’t have with any of the other states in the U.S.,” Sprenger
   said.
  
   Sprenger and more than 100 other students in the district pitched the
   bill

Re: [meteorite-list] Middle school students lobbying Kansas lawmakers to declare official state rock

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

I count 225 New Mexico meteorites in the MetBull. That is 0.00185
meteorites per square mile.

If Kansas has 143 meteorites, then that is 0.00174 meteorites per square mile.

I think that puts the Land of Enchantment as the #1 meteorite state :) :)


*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Shawn Alan via Meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 Hello Listers

 I agree Brenham is be the best suited state meteorite Michael.
 If NY was doing this, it would have to be Peekskill to be the state
 rock.

 Mendy I think the teacher was going off the info from  Meteoritical
 Bulletin Database

 Here are the results I gathered from there.

 116 records found for valid meteorites from United States with places
 that are exactly Nevada

 130 records found for valid meteorites from United States with places
 that are exactly Arizona

 143 records found for valid meteorites from United States with places
 that are exactly Kansas


 Shawn Alan
 IMCA 1633
 ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html
 Website http://meteoritefalls.com

  Original Message 
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Middle school students lobbying Kansas
 lawmakers to declare official state rock
 From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com
 Date: Wed, January 28, 2015 11:37 am
 To: Mendy Ouzillou mendy.ouzil...@gmail.com
 Cc: Shawn Alan shawna...@meteoritefalls.com, Meteorite Central
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com


 Why would Cabin Creek be a better choice? It is from Arkansas.
 Brenham, definitely

 Michael Farmer

  On Jan 28, 2015, at 9:02 AM, Mendy Ouzillou via Meteorite-list 
  meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 
  I'm just probably a meanie, but I think this effort is misguided
  though certainly better than making the state rock limestone. The
  children calculated that somehow, Kansas has more meteorites per
  square mile (not sure if finds, falls, or hits) than anywhere else in
  the US (if finds then sorry Arizona and Nevada). I am happy to see
  that calculations were done though disappointed that their teacher did
  not better guide their efforts. Finally, the picture in the article is
  clearly of a beautiful Sikhote Alin. I wonder how well that will go
  over with the state legislators. Maybe Cabin Creek would have been a
  better choice. :-)
 
  Mendy
 
 
 
  On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 1:38 AM, Shawn Alan via Meteorite-list
  meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
  Hello Listers
 
  I hope it passes be cool for Kansas have a meteorite for a state rock :)
 
  Shawn Alan
  IMCA 1633
  ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html
  Website http://meteoritefalls.com
 
 
  SHAWNEE, Kan. – A group of local middle school students are lobbying
  to change state history. The students with Monticello Trails Middle
  School, which is part of the De Soto School District, are headed to
  Topeka to argue for an official state rock.
 
  Chris Sprenger, an 8th grade student at the school, is determined to
  make the meteorite the official Kansas state rock.
 
  “The meteorite really has a connection with Kansas that it really
  doesn’t have with any of the other states in the U.S.,” Sprenger
  said.
 
  Sprenger and more than 100 other students in the district pitched the
  bill to Representative Brett Hildabrand.
 
  Lobbying for a state rock has challenged the students across the board.
  In social studies they’ve learned how bills are passed, in science
  they’ve learned about geology and rocks and in communication arts
  they’ve spent hours working on their proposal essays.
 
  source:http://fox4kc.com/2015/01/27/middle-school-students-lobbying-kansas-lawmakers-to-declare-official-state-rock/
  __
 
  Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
  Meteorite-list mailing list
  Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 
 
 
  --
  Mendy Ouzillou
  __
 
  Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
  Meteorite-list mailing list
  Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update: Sahara 00293

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Mike and All:

Even poor old L6's can have their 15 minutes of fame! This one has
high pressure minerals: dark blue ringwoodite and green wadsleyite.
How cool (or should I say hot and shocked?) is that?

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks via
Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 Hi Laurence and List,

 Ah, the nebulous picture becomes more clear. Science works in
 mysterious ways.

 It must be interesting (and fun) to have access to an institutional
 collection. One could sift through the numerous specimens looking for
 traits that stand out and/or features of interest. I wonder what first
 caught her eye about this old Saharan OC. I wish Ms. Crystyl the best
 of luck on her research and I hope we see her name more often in the
 Bulletin.  :)

 Thanks for the explanation Laurence. :)

 Best regards,

 MikeG

 --
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 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
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 -



 On 1/23/15, Laurence Garvie via Meteorite-list
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 Crystyl is a grad student in the School of Earth and Space Exploration at
 ASU. She is studying shock phases in meteorites, and by chance Sah 00293 has
 something very interesting in it (you can look up her LPSC abstract which
 will be online in a few weeks). In order for her LPSC abstract to be
 accepted, she had to first classify and then get the meteorite accepted by
 the NomCom.

 Laurence Garvie
 CMS
 ASU

 --

 Message: 6
 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:30:02 -0500
 From: Galactic Stone  Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com
 To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update : Sahara 00293
 Message-ID:
  cakbpjw8affefp7quexfguc5f49c50sihyf2wmw_wdgte6vy...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Hi Bulletin Watchers,

 There is one new approval. I find it curious. It is an old Sahara OC
 found by Mr. Labenne fifteen years ago (2000). Crystylynda Fudge was
 the classifier. I have never heard this name before. I am just curious
 why this meteorite suddenly appeared out of obscurity to be approved
 today.

 Best regards and Happy Huntings,

 MikeG

 Link : http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=61360

 Bulletin write-up :

 Sahara 00293
 (Sahara)
 Found: 2000
 Classification: Ordinary chondrite (L6)

 History: Reportedly collected in the same location as Sahara 98222.

 Physical characteristics: Chondrules largely integrated into matrix,
 difficult to discern in cut section. Abundant shock-induced melt veins
 and pockets.

 Petrography: Fine-grained recrystallized plagioclase throughout
 matrix, some grains up to 200 ?m. Abundant metal sulfides and troilite
 with trace native Cu. Evidence of minor planar deformation features in
 olivine. Ubiquitous opaque shock melt veins and associated dark blue
 ringwoodite and green wadsleyite.

 Geochemistry: (C. Fudge, ASU) EPMA: Fa24.8?0.1 FeO/MnO: 48.8?1.6 n=11;
 low-Ca pyroxene Fs20.9?0.3Wo1.6?0.2 FeO/MnO: 28.6?1.1 n=12; high-Ca
 pyroxene Fs8.4?0.2Wo44.4?0.1 FeO/MnO: 20.8?1.2 n=2

 Classification: Ordinary chondrite L6, S6, W2

 Specimens: 27.05 g and one thin section at ASU


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Re: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Met Bulletin Update: Sahara 00293

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

I think we have to save the name Shocking Blue for the first
meteorite from Venus--  if one is ever discovered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPEhQugz-Ew

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Bernd V. Pauli via Meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 How cool (or should I say hot and shocked?) is that?

 I'd say a shocking S6 ;-)
 Some Europeans (especially the Dutch) will remember
 a group called Shockin' Blue ... They must have been
 savvy re: ringwoodite :-)

 Cheers, Bernd

 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 meteoritem...@gmail.com
 Cc: lgar...@cox.net
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com


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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about Norites - Lunar and Diogenite

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Hi Mike:

Norite is a generic petrologic term for an igneous mafic rock that has
primarily orthopyroxene + plagioclase and little or no clinopyroxene.
Norites occur on Earth, the Moon, and the HED parent body (as you call
Vestan). HED norites are in fact a type of diogenite. Geochemically
there is no way you can confuse a HED norite with a lunar norite. For
one thing they have totally different Fe/Mn, and of course the oxygen
isotopes are totally different.

Hope this helps.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks via
Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 Hi List,

 I was looking at Norites recently, and I came across the only
 lunar-origin Norite, the lunaite NWA 773.  I had no knowledge of NWA
 773 prior to stumbling across it's Noritic connection.

 The visual similarities between lunar norite and Vestan norite are
 apparent. I am assuming the major differences are noted in chemistry.
 Do lunar and Vestan norites share any other characteristics that might
 blur the line between their respective parent bodies?  In other words,
 are these two types of norites so closely related that their may be
 some room for reconsideration when it comes to their parent body
 origins?  (i.e., possible they came from the same body, or a noritic
 body impact on the parent, etc)

 Best regards,

 MikeG

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Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - Lunars, Martian, HED's, Achondrites

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

New approvals are exactly that -- meteorites that have been newly
classified and approved by the NomCom and entered into the MetBull
database. They are not necessarily new finds, in fact we have approved
some recently that were found more than a decade ago but were never,
until now, submitted for classification.

Happy New Year, keep the good stuff coming!

Carl Agee
Editor, Meteoritical Bulletin

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 I was wondering why you announce the same Lunar and Martian meteorites time
 and time again?  I check the links to discover these were announced months
 ago and are not new discoveries. It makes it appear that new finds are being
 found on a weekly bases.

 Best Regards,

 Adam

 - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone  Ironworks via
 Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2014 7:02 PM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - Lunars, Martian,
 HED's,Achondrites



 Hi Bulletin Watchers,

 There are 10 new approvals, including 3 Lunars and a Martian.

 Link :
 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=%2Asfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=2pnt=Normal%20tabledr=page=0

 Best regards and Happy Huntings,

 MikeG

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Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Old Women Meteorite

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

I think the Old Woman could be in worse hands. Last time I checked the
Smithsonian was our county's repository for national treasures --
i.e., it belongs to all Americans. I certainly enjoyed seeing the full
slice on my last visit there -- also good to know that the main mass
is on display in California for tourists to appreciate.

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 Hi Sonny,

 I thought the miners..or one of them passed?

 Let's go get it!  Did they say how big the other pieces are?

 Jim



 On 5/21/2014 10:58 AM, wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list wrote:

 Hey Adam and list

 Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government.

 Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite.

 With the Old Women Meteorite a second piece has been found. A third piece
 has also been found wedged under a large boulder half exposed. I have tried
 to get permission to remove the meteorite. I was told that the meteorite
 would be confiscated if recovered and best to leave it alone. This would be
 a great case to challenge in court.

 Sonny






 -Original Message-
 From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 10:06 am
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???


 Sonny, That is great news.  I am not saying that every experience with the
 BLM has been a negative one for me.   I spent hours on the phone with three
 different agents from the Barstow and Needles offices and got variable
 answers.  I was even told it was illegal to bring devices into an area that
 also contains heritage items or artifacts.  This included a magnet on a
 stick.   I did manage to get a permit to enter Ivanpah after one of my
 friends was ticketed there.The bottom line is that I do not want to see
 anybody hassled for selling meteorites found on public land.  The only
 consistent answer I ever got was that meteorites found on public land are
 not to be used for commercial purposes.Sell at your own risk.  For me, the
 thrill is finding them,Adam- Original Message - From:
 wahlpe...@aol.comTo: raremeteori...@centurylink.net;
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:49
 AMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???Hey
 Adam, Jim and List,Meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs you just
 need to go outand do a little hunting. I was able to recover 2.5 pounds over
 the lastmonth in a new area. Last year while I was hunting the Indian
 Buttemeteorite I stopped and talked with two BLM Rangers. We talked
 aboutmeteorite hunting. The two rangers had no problem with me hunting
 formeteorites and wished me good luck. I have also talked with the LasVegas
 BLM regarding meteorite hunting and have had no problem. I didcontact the
 State of Arizona about hunting on State Land and theyinformed me that
 meteorite hunting on state land is not allowed. So farall of my experiences
 with the BLM and meteorite hunting has beenpositive. I can hopefully find
 some more Easter Eggs this weekend! :  )Sonny-Original Message-
 From: Raremeteorites via
 Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comTo: meteorite-list
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wed, May 21, 2014 9:08 amSubject:
 Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???The BLM adopted
 the UNESCO rules designed to protect culturalproperties and turned them into
 laws. These rules have been twistedinto law by government servants
 overstepping their authority with nodebate or intelligent input whatsoever.
 I talked at great length over10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which
 sounded the alarm bellsto anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened
 their position withthe 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will
 never be issuedbased on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites
 are lyingaround like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune.Not too many
 peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to
 theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite.   Our group, consisting ofseven
 people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles Californiaoffice that
 meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBayand other outlets.
 Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and ascientist were on this trip.
 I was personally threatened, as wereother team members, by them and will
 leave it at that.  Others on thislist have been warned as well.  I will
 leave it up to other hunters tostep forward with their unsavory experiences

Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Old Women Meteorite

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

Hi Jim,

Just between you and me -- and everyone else on the internet -- I wish
NASA would spend a tiny fraction of their ~$19B annual budget on the
recovery, classification, curation, and data analysis on
scientifically valuable meteorites originating outside of Antarctica.
They spend piles of money on JPL's remote sensing probes and archiving
the data from missions but somehow the non-Antarctic samples in our
labs and university museums are not as special to them -- and as far
as I know they are from the same solar system :) :)

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Jim Wooddell
jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Hi Carl! I agree it is good where it's at.  I really appreciated the
 opportunity to touch and see the
 Old Woman Meteorite.
 The girl in the office gave me the evil eye when I tried to roll it out of
 the BLM building!
 She thought I was joking around!  ;)

 If there truly are additional pieces of the old gal, some one ought to go
 get it and re-unite them.
 I think UCLA should be jumping all over this with a vengeance. Funds could
 be raised to retrieve these.
 Russia would do it, I bet!

 I volunteer to be part of the ground crew and donate money to help make it
 happen by a qualified organization

 Won't believe it until I see pictures.  Hiding something like this is nuts!
 I am mean really.

 Now back to watching epoxy cure!
 I need to call you next week.

 Jim



 On 5/21/2014 2:20 PM, Carl Agee wrote:

 I think the Old Woman could be in worse hands. Last time I checked the
 Smithsonian was our county's repository for national treasures --
 i.e., it belongs to all Americans. I certainly enjoyed seeing the full
 slice on my last visit there -- also good to know that the main mass
 is on display in California for tourists to appreciate.

 Carl Agee
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:

 Hi Sonny,

 I thought the miners..or one of them passed?

 Let's go get it!  Did they say how big the other pieces are?

 Jim



 On 5/21/2014 10:58 AM, wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list wrote:

 Hey Adam and list

 Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government.

 Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite.

 With the Old Women Meteorite a second piece has been found. A third
 piece
 has also been found wedged under a large boulder half exposed. I have
 tried
 to get permission to remove the meteorite. I was told that the meteorite
 would be confiscated if recovered and best to leave it alone. This would
 be
 a great case to challenge in court.

 Sonny






 -Original Message-
 From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 10:06 am
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???


 Sonny, That is great news.  I am not saying that every experience with
 the
 BLM has been a negative one for me.   I spent hours on the phone with
 three
 different agents from the Barstow and Needles offices and got variable
 answers.  I was even told it was illegal to bring devices into an area
 that
 also contains heritage items or artifacts.  This included a magnet on a
 stick.   I did manage to get a permit to enter Ivanpah after one of my
 friends was ticketed there.The bottom line is that I do not want to see
 anybody hassled for selling meteorites found on public land.  The only
 consistent answer I ever got was that meteorites found on public land
 are
 not to be used for commercial purposes.Sell at your own risk.  For me,
 the
 thrill is finding them,Adam- Original Message - From:
 wahlpe...@aol.comTo: raremeteori...@centurylink.net;
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:49
 AMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake
 Finds???Hey
 Adam, Jim and List,Meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs you just
 need to go outand do a little hunting. I was able to recover 2.5 pounds
 over
 the lastmonth in a new area. Last year while I was hunting the Indian
 Buttemeteorite I stopped and talked with two BLM Rangers. We talked
 aboutmeteorite hunting. The two rangers had no problem with me hunting
 formeteorites and wished me good luck. I have also talked with the
 LasVegas
 BLM regarding meteorite hunting

Re: [meteorite-list] NASA May Put Greenhouse on Mars in 2021

[Carl Agee via Meteorite-list]

NASA's Planetary Protection Officer will have to approve it!

-Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Mendy.Ouzillou via Meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:
 Just watched an old Dr. Who episode about that very project. Did not turn out 
 well ...

 Mendy Ouzillou

 On May 8, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Ron Baalke via Meteorite-list 
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote:



 http://www.space.com/25767-nasa-mars-greenhouse-rover-plant-experiment.html

 NASA May Put Greenhouse on Mars in 2021
 By Mike Wall
 space.com
 May 6, 2014

 Plant life may touch down on Mars in 2021.

 Researchers have proposed putting a plant-growth experiment on NASA's
 next Mars rover, which is scheduled to launch in mid-2020 and land on
 the Red Planet in early 2021. The investigation, known as the Mars Plant
 Experiment (MPX), could help lay the foundation for the colonization of
 Mars, its designers say.

 In order to do a long-term, sustainable base on Mars, you would want
 to be able to establish that plants can at least grow on Mars, MPX deputy
 principal investigator Heather Smith, of NASA's Ames Research Center in
 Mountain View, California, said April 24 at the Humans 2 Mars conference
 in Washington, D.C. This would be the first step in that - we just send
 the seeds there and watch them grow.

 The MPX team - led by fellow Ames scientist Chris McKay - isn't suggesting
 that the 2020 Mars rover should play gardener, digging a hole with its
 robotic arm and planting seeds in the Red Planet's dirt. Rather, the 
 experiment
 would be entirely self-contained, eliminating the chance that Earth life
 could escape and perhaps get a foothold on Mars.

 MPX would employ a clear CubeSat box - the case for a cheap and tiny
 satellite - which would be affixed to the exterior of the 2020 rover.
 This box would hold Earth air and about 200 seeds of Arabidopsis, a small
 flowering plant that's commonly used in scientific research.

 The seeds would receive water when the rover touched down on Mars, and
 would then be allowed to grow for two weeks or so.

 In 15 days, we'll have a little greenhouse on Mars, Smith said.

 MPX would provide an organism-level test of the Mars environment, showing
 how Earth life deals with the Red Planet's relatively high radiation levels
 and low gravity, which is about 40 percent as strong as that of Earth,
 she added.

 We would go from this simple experiment to the greenhouses on Mars for
 a sustainable base, Smith said. That would be the goal.

 In addition to its potential scientific returns, MPX would provide humanity
 with a landmark moment, she added.

 It also would be the first multicellular organism to grow, live and die
 on another planet, Smith said.

 The 2020 Mars rover is based heavily on NASA's Curiosity rover, which
 landed in August 2012 to determine if the Red Planet has ever been capable
 of supporting microbial life. Curiosity has already answered that question
 in the affirmative, finding that a site called Yellowknife Bay was, indeed,
 habitable billions of years ago.

 NASA wants the 2020 rover to search for signs of past Mars life, and collect
 rock and soil samples for eventual return to Earth. But the space agency
 is still working out the details of the robot's mission - for example,
 figuring out what instruments it will carry.

 NASA received 58 instrument proposals for the rover during its call for
 submissions, which lasted from September 2013 until January of this year.
 Final selections should be made by June or so, NASA officials have said.

 Curiosity totes 10 instruments around Mars, so the 2020 rover may end
 up with a similar amount of scientific gear.

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Re: [meteorite-list] HUGE Meteor Sighting in Cottonwood AZ

[Carl Agee]

If this dropped stones on New Mexico, you know where to bring them!

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Ruben Garcia
rubengarcia85...@gmail.com wrote:
 No video yet, but the 10:00 NEWS opened the show with about 7 minutes
 of talk and interviews of this fireball. Initial reports said it
 landed 75-80 miles north of Las Cruces, NM

 Stay tuned, I'll bet someone posts a video soon.

 On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Ruben Garcia
 rubengarcia85...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 Here's the first bits of NEWS that may turn into something big.
 Channel 12 NEWS in Phoenix is reporting this on their Facebook page.

 https://www.facebook.com/12news

 Lets watch and see what comes from it!


 --
 Rock On!

 Ruben Garcia
 http://www.MrMeteorite.com



 --
 Rock On!

 Ruben Garcia
 http://www.MrMeteorite.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] is it a meteorite

[Carl Agee]

How do you know that ureilites, aubrites, acapulcoites and the many
achondrite-ung are NOT exploded bits of parent planets destroyed by
alien warfare in our solar system a long time ago? In which case they
would not be meteorites.


Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote:
 If a fragment of Alderaan hit the Death Star, it would be a meteorite.  Oh
 wait, this was not transported by natural means!  Well, you get the idea.

 Yes, itself is the meteorite.

 Jeff


 On 4/8/2014 3:17 PM, Mendy Ouzillou wrote:

 OK, so some questions regarding the definition:
 1) What would be considered an artificial body?
 2) I am 99.9% sure that the word itself refers to the meteorite (as
 opposed to the body on which the meteorite lands). Correct?

 Mendy Ouzillou



 
 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 10:38 AM

 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] is it a meteorite


 Yes, Alan and I would call this object a real meteorite, but not
 tektites, which never escaped from Earth's gravity well.

 It's a bit of a stretch and model dependent, but in a way, lunar
 meteorites may be considered as this type of meteorite.

 Jeff

 On 4/8/2014 7:18 AM, Peter Scherff wrote:

 Hi,
  According to Alan E. Rubin  Jeffrey N. Grossman: A meteorite is a
 natural, solid object larger than 10 µm in size, derived from a
 celestial
 body, that was transported by natural means from the body on which it
 formed
 to a region outside the dominant gravitational influence of that body
 and
 that later collided with a natural or artificial body larger than itself
 (even if it was the same body from which it was launched). Using that
 definition I would say that your rock should be called a meteorite. I
 also
 think that a cool name for a new class of meteorites would need to be
 created. I just hope that we could have that class created before 5
 examples
 of it were recognized.

 Thanks,

 Peter

 -Original Message-
 From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
 [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark
 Ford
 Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 3:28 AM
 To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] is it a meteorite

 IMHO - This should most likely be called 'Earthite'. A whole new class
 of
 rocks distinct from meteorites, which so far we don't have any of
 (unless
 anyone knows different!?).

 Or they could just be known as Tektites, since that is essentially
 what the
 consensus is on Tektites. Though I would put Tektites in the group of
 Ancient impact glasses rather than actual fusion crusted rocks from
 earth.

 Mark



 -Original Message-
 From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
 [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Chris
 Sent: 08 April 2014 06:15
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] is it a meteorite

 Suppose a fusion crusted stone is found shortly after a fireball.  When
 examined it shows a celestial age of a few million years and a
 relatively
 short formation age.  More examination shows it to be a stone formed on
 earth, ejected into space and returned here.  Is it meteorite or a
 meteorwrong.  Or something in between?
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Visit the 

Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Caddo County, OK Killer IAB Silicated Iron

[Carl Agee]

Hi Steve,

I was looking into IAB's recently and they are actually closely linked
to winonaites as their oxygen isotopes are identical.

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Steve Arnold meteorh...@aol.com wrote:
 Hello List,

 I figure I should jump in here and get my one last free ad in while I can.

 I have some small part slices of Caddo County, Oklahoma available now.

 This is an amazing IAB silicated iron, unlike anything I have ever seen
 before.  In fact when it first hit the market years ago it was thought it
 might have been a Lodranite. (That was back when lodranites were still
 grouped by some as a stony-iron due to their high metal content.)

 These part slices, while small, dramatically exhibit a fine Widmanstatten
 pattern.  This is in stark comparison of other silicated irons we often see.
 Some of these have a larger iron portions while others have more silicates.
 I struggle to determine which I personally like best...they all, while
 different to some extent, look awesome.

 I have seen very little of this rare rock on the market, although in my
 early days in the meteorite business, this was one that would catch my
 attention in Bob Haag's Private Collection catalogs.

 While not as special maybe as a Lodranite (type wise) it definitely is
 prettier than any Lodranite I have seen.

 $18/g - $20/g

 Post card ID card comes with them at not cost, loaded in Riker Boxes $5.00
 extra.  $5.00 Shipping
 Check what I have here:

 http://s361.photobucket.com/user/stevearnoldpmh/library/Caddo%20County%202

 Look for SOLD to appear in the descriptions under the photos as they sell.

 Email me off list if you would like to buy one.  Major Credit Cards accepted
 as is Paypal.

 Thanks for looking.

 Steve Arnold
 Host of Science Channel's TV Series Meteorite Men
 www.ScienceChannel.com
 Co-Founder of America's Meteorite Store: Meteorites  More, 28 1/2 Spring
 St., Eureka Springs, AR 72632
 President Palladot Inc, Extra-terrestrial Gemstones   www.Palladot.com
 Facebook:  MeteoriteMan
 Facebook:  SteveArnoldMeteorites
 Facebook:  Meteorite Men
 Ebay: ArnoldMeteorites
 meteorh...@aol.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Photos of Dr. Laurence Garvie and Myself teaching meteorite basics.

[Carl Agee]

Ruben,
Those who cannot see it may not be FB friends with you. You can set
permissions for everyone.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 6:09 PM, Ruben Garcia
rubengarcia85...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 Not sure why some of you can't see this.   Maybe someone can let
 me know what I did wrong?

 On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:41 PM, Ruben Garcia
 rubengarcia85...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 Dr Garvie and myself just returned from teaching meteorite basics to a
 room full of Rock Hounds.

 Hopefully (since my settings are public) everyone will be able to see this.

 Here's a link to my photos on FB

 https://www.facebook.com/ruben.mrmeteoritegarcia/media_set?set=a.1376455985964318.1073741828.17997881187type=1

 BTW - Feel free to friend me as I'll be posting lots of different
 meteorite related photos and articles in the future.

 --
 Rock On!

 Ruben Garcia
 http://www.MrMeteorite.com



 --
 Rock On!

 Ruben Garcia
 http://www.MrMeteorite.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Ungrouped Achondrite Prices (NWA 7325 and others)

[Carl Agee]

Hi Mike and All:

Achondrite-ung one of my favorite things! Also the enigmatic
groupings like ACA, LOD, WIN, BRAC, URE, fascinating! From what I have
seen and heard about NWA 7325 -- simply amazing. The problem has
nothing to do with these wonderful achondrites, the problem is our
ignorance of their possible parent bodies. Martian and lunar
meteorites are of the highest scientific value, not because they are
better meteorites, but because we know enough about their parent
bodies to make the meteorite - parent body connection and thereby they
become the equivalent of geological sample returns. If NASA hadn't
sent missions to the Moon or Mars we would most likely not recognize
these meteorites as lunar and Martian. So, the problem with Mercurian
meteorites is not  whether they do or don't exist, the problem is our
fragmentary understanding of the planet Mercury and our inability, at
this time, to make the parent body - meteorite connection. Yes,
Mercury Messenger has given us new insight into the make up of the
Mercurian crust, but the data are simply still not good enough to be
useful for unequivocal meteorite matching. So even if we have a
meteorite from Mercury somewhere in the world's collections right now,
we won't know it until Mercury is better known. Part of the problem is
that Mercury possesses no true atmosphere. Remember, the strongest
evidence for martian meteorites being from Mars is trapped martian
atmospheric gases in the meteorites -- the ultimate fingerprint.
Interestingly, we may have a better shot at recognizing a meteorite
from Venus, since the Venusian atmosphere has been geochemically and
isotopically measured by NASA missions and spectroscopically from
Earth. For example, trapped Venusian atmosphere should have a
gigantically large ratio of deuterium to hydrogen. In the meantime,
there are other ways to think about parent bodies of achondrites --
identifying their meteoritic precursor material. For example, I
recently worked on achondrite-ung NWA 8186 that appears to be the
first example of an achondrite that is a very good match for having a
CK-chondrite precursor -- in other words, take a CK parent body,
igneously melt it, and the product is achondrite-ung NWA 8186. Hey,
who said the list was boring? Mike, great discussion topic!

Carl Agee

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Listees,

 Can someone elaborate on why NWA 7325 and it's possible pairings are
 selling for $10,000/g in some cases?  There is speculation that it
 originated from Mercury, but that is only speculation at this point.
 One can speculate anything.  Heck, it might be from Alpha Centauri.

 There are 60 other ungrouped achondrites and some of them have very
 unusual characteristics.  Why is NWA 7325 priced so high above the
 others?  The low-TKW does not explain the price (maybe in small part),
 given the fact that pairings appear to be surfacing.

 This is not a criticism of any dealer or dealers.  I am just curious
 how people have arrived at this price.

 Best regards,

 MikeG


 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 -
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Re: [meteorite-list] Ungrouped Achondrite Prices (NWA 7325 andothers)

[Carl Agee]

Alan,

Thanks, you just saved me from a savaging by reviewers of my paper
still in prep! I guess CK 'precursor' is a safer term than 'parent
body'? Or are we calling it the CV-CK parent body? (with the UCLA good
housekeeping seal of approval). I'm happy with just melting a CV, I
used to do that all the time in the lab, except at very high pressure.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:26 PM, Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu wrote:
 Carl mentioned a CK parent body.  I doubt that there is such a thing.  In
 a recent paper, the UCLA folks suggested that CKs were just metamorphosed
 CVs.  I wrote a column in Meteorite about that not too long ago as well.  If
 this is correct then a CK parent body would really likely be a CV-CK parent
 body.  Carl's idea then becomes a little more complicated.  Either you have
 to make the achondrite straight from a CV or you have to metamorphose the CV
 material (perhaps by collisions, perhaps by slow heating via 26Al) to make a
 CK and then melt that. It seems simpler to skip the CK step.
 Alan


 Alan Rubin
 Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
 University of California
 3845 Slichter Hall
 603 Charles Young Dr. E
 Los Angeles, CA  90095-1567
 phone: 310-825-3202
 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu
 website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html


 - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
 To: Galactic Stone  Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com
 Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ungrouped Achondrite Prices (NWA 7325
 andothers)



 Hi Mike and All:

 Achondrite-ung one of my favorite things! Also the enigmatic
 groupings like ACA, LOD, WIN, BRAC, URE, fascinating! From what I have
 seen and heard about NWA 7325 -- simply amazing. The problem has
 nothing to do with these wonderful achondrites, the problem is our
 ignorance of their possible parent bodies. Martian and lunar
 meteorites are of the highest scientific value, not because they are
 better meteorites, but because we know enough about their parent
 bodies to make the meteorite - parent body connection and thereby they
 become the equivalent of geological sample returns. If NASA hadn't
 sent missions to the Moon or Mars we would most likely not recognize
 these meteorites as lunar and Martian. So, the problem with Mercurian
 meteorites is not  whether they do or don't exist, the problem is our
 fragmentary understanding of the planet Mercury and our inability, at
 this time, to make the parent body - meteorite connection. Yes,
 Mercury Messenger has given us new insight into the make up of the
 Mercurian crust, but the data are simply still not good enough to be
 useful for unequivocal meteorite matching. So even if we have a
 meteorite from Mercury somewhere in the world's collections right now,
 we won't know it until Mercury is better known. Part of the problem is
 that Mercury possesses no true atmosphere. Remember, the strongest
 evidence for martian meteorites being from Mars is trapped martian
 atmospheric gases in the meteorites -- the ultimate fingerprint.
 Interestingly, we may have a better shot at recognizing a meteorite
 from Venus, since the Venusian atmosphere has been geochemically and
 isotopically measured by NASA missions and spectroscopically from
 Earth. For example, trapped Venusian atmosphere should have a
 gigantically large ratio of deuterium to hydrogen. In the meantime,
 there are other ways to think about parent bodies of achondrites --
 identifying their meteoritic precursor material. For example, I
 recently worked on achondrite-ung NWA 8186 that appears to be the
 first example of an achondrite that is a very good match for having a
 CK-chondrite precursor -- in other words, take a CK parent body,
 igneously melt it, and the product is achondrite-ung NWA 8186. Hey,
 who said the list was boring? Mike, great discussion topic!

 Carl Agee

 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
 meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Listees,

 Can someone elaborate on why NWA 7325 and it's possible pairings are
 selling for $10,000/g in some cases?  There is speculation that it
 originated from Mercury, but that is only speculation at this point.
 One can speculate anything.  Heck, it might be from Alpha Centauri.

 There are 60 other ungrouped achondrites and some

Re: [meteorite-list] Why isn't Mreira classified as a Fall?

[Carl Agee]

a fireball was seen in the afternoon sky on December 16, 2012,
several school children saw the fireball explode and detonations were
heard near the village of Mehaires, Western Sahara. Pieces were
recovered approximately 40 miles south of Mehaires, near Mreïra,
Mauritania, only a few days after the event.


This excerpt above is basically only the proof that it was a fall.
The lesson here is that NWA documentation needs to be meticulous with
identified individual eyewitnesses that corroborate with anything else
like cameras etc. (e.g. Chelyabinsk). What didn't measure up in this
case, was the anecdotal recovered fresh meteorites 40 miles from an
event that only anonymous school children witnessed. Also, no
documented strewn field was submitted (in situ photos etc.). I suppose
this can be a problem when people want to keep the actual strewn field
location a secret to keep out competing hunters?

No such thing as too much documentation.


Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Ruben Garcia
rubengarcia85...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 So what held them back from calling this a fall? What more information
 did they need to swing the pendulum towards a fall as opposed to a
 find?

 Maybe Dr Agee, Dr Garvie or someone else involved in this
 classification can shed some light.

 On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Matt Morgan m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote:

 Mreira was submitted by me as a fall but the NomCom couldn't reach a 
 consensus. So it was likely witnessed as stated in the description.  As you 
 noted Ruben it is as fresh as can be
 Matt Morgan

 On March 11, 2014 11:00:59 AM MDT, Ruben Garcia rubengarcia85...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
Hi,

When I purchased Mreira months ago I was told by the Moroccan dealers
that it was a witnessed fall. Ok, lets be real, anyone can say
anything in order to make a sale. However, it looks as fresh as any
fall I've ever seen/found.

Photos here:
http://www.mrmeteorite.com/mreirameteorite.htm

Read the write up - it seems to agree that it is indeed a fall.

History: According to Ait Hiba Abdelhad, a fireball was seen in the
afternoon sky on December 16, 2012, several school children saw the
fireball explode and detonations were heard near the village of
Mehaires, Western Sahara. Pieces were recovered approximately 40 miles
south of Mehaires, near Mreïra, Mauritania, only a few days after the
event. The strewn field is in the area called Stailt Omgrain, which
is a local nomadic name. This is south of Mehaires and north of the
mountain Galbe lahmar. Therefore this is a possible fall associated
with the fireball of December 16, 2012.

***Possible fall?  What else do you need? ***

Meteoritical Bulletin for Mreira

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Mre%C3%AFrasfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=57653

 --
 Matt Morgan
 Mile High Meteorites
 PO Box 151293
 Lakewood CO 80215 USA
 http://www.mhmeteorites.com
 Find Us on Facebook




 --
 Rock On!

 Ruben Garcia
 http://www.MrMeteorite.com
 __

 Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite-list] List is getting torpid

[Carl Agee]

What the list misses is Facebook's Like button. That was a brilliant
idea of FB that allows people to semi-lurk, especially if they don't
have time to write a long comment -- which also sometimes can be a
blessing! I'm sure there are many 'likes' of list posts, we just never
get to see them -- and it can feel silent.


Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Every now and then, one of the scientists will post something very
 interesting and educational.  Some of the best planetary-scientists in
 the world lurk on this List and they occasionally post some really
 fascinating stuff.  I think what we are experiencing here, in part, is
 a drain of posts going from the List to Facebook.  Many regular
 posters here on the List are now very active on Facebook.  And, people
 have a tendency to forget the good quickly and then hang on to the bad
 indefinitely.  It's selective memory.  In the last couple of months.
 we have had thought-provoking discussions about meteorites and
 planetary science.  Doctors Rubin, Agee, Bunch, Korotev, Grossman,
 (and several others who I cannot recall at the moment), often jump in
 to a discussion to provide interesting and useful insights.  Those
 posts just get forgotten quickly for some reason.

 In my 6+ years on the List, I have seen a roller coaster of activity -
 sometimes busy, sometimes not.  And, there are actually fewer ads now
 than there used to be years ago.  Many of the people that used to post
 ads are now gone and we haven't heard from them much at all in recent
 years.  New dealers have come on to the scene and they post ads, but
 it seems to me that the number of ads has not increased - it just
 seems that why because fewer people are posting in general - so the
 ads are more noticeable.

 Facebook is a great resource, but it will never replace the Met-List.  :)
 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 -




 On 3/10/14, Bob Loeffler bloeff...@peaktopeak.com wrote:
 In this day and age, people want their posts to be instant, how it was on
 meteorite central before the over haul.

 Hi Shawn,

 In this day and age, posts via EMAIL are pretty much instantaneous.  I have
 never gone to the website to read or post messages for this list.  Is there
 a reason why you do that instead of just getting the posts instantly via
 email?  IMO, reading messages in a list such as this on a website is
 archaic, but maybe you have your reasons.  I used to do that on Compuserve
 20 to 25 years ago, but why go to different websites for all of the
 community groups that you read instead of having the messages all sent
 automatically to email?  It's easy to set up rules in email apps so that
 you
 have all of the MetList emails in one folder, all of the
 Pizza-is-yummy-Society emails in another folder, etc.  But like I said,
 maybe you have your reasons.

 Regards,

 Bob L.


 -Original Message-
 From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
 [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn
 Alan
 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:35 PM
 To: Meteorite Central
 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite-list] List is getting torpid

 Hello Listers

 My two cents

 The List went quite ish when Art did the over haul and personal I don't go
 to the website any more because the posts arent instant. Right now, if you
 go to Meteorite Central the latest post is from March 5th. In this day and
 age, people want their posts to be instant, how it was on meteorite central
 before the over haul. Now it take weeks before a post shows up on the
 website, not sure why Art did this, but it sounds like its hurting the
 website then helping it. Art, I wish the website went back to the way it
 was, I would go to the website 10 to 15 times a day if not more, now I
 don't
 go, I have a link to some MC mail list that shows the postings, but for
 real
 time use on Meteorite Central its dated and not prevalent to current trends
 in social media and how websites work today with instant posting. Please
 fix
 Meteorite Central Art  to how it was :)

 Shawn Alan
 IMCA 1633
 ebay store
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html
 http://meteoritefalls.com/
 __

 Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman

Re: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO ordinary chondrite L3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting discussion?)

[Carl Agee]

Probably none of my business, but I would have some thin sections
made. We did that for NWA 7731 for research and they are spectacular.
The porphyritic chondrules -- dazzling and crystal clear!

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:


 John,

 That is a great question and one that deserves an educated response. I will 
 do my best, but hopefully Carl can chime in.

 We went back and forth on listing the shock for this stone and ultimately 
 felt it would be confusing. Shock equals heat and this stone being a 3.00 has 
 had no thermal metamorphism. It is possible that its shock value is as high 
 as S2 but as I understand it there is no way to reliably measure shock in 
 such a low petrologic state as 3.00.

 Best!

 Mendy Ouzillou




 From: kashuba mary.kash...@verizon.net
To: 'Mendy Ouzillou' ouzil...@yahoo.com; 'Met-List' 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; 'Adam Bates' sa...@bcmeteorites.com
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 5:09 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO ordinary 
chondriteL3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting discussion?)


Mendy, Adam, List,

Congratulations on discovering this special rock.  I saw it in Adam's room
in Tucson and we talked about it.  A 3.00 calls to every collector.  But
there was no shock rating so I was reluctant to buy.  There was another
valuable stone at another dealer that I passed on for the same reason.

Maybe I'm stuck in tradition, but when I'm considering a shocked stone, I
like to know how shocked it is.  When I'm considering a pristine chondrite,
I want to know how pristine.  That includes the effects of thermal
metamorphism, aqueous alteration, terrestrial weathering and shock.  None of
these is necessarily a deal breaker, but each plays into my seat of the
pants cost-benefit deliberation.

Semarkona is considered unshocked and unequilibrated.  It is spectacular in
thin section.  It's hard to know what NWA 8276 L3.00 W1 would look like.

Sincerely,

John Kashuba
Bend, Oregon

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mendy
Ouzillou
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:35 PM
To: Met-List; Adam Bates
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO ordinary chondrite
L3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting discussion?)



Hello everyone, The NWA desert continues to thrill us this with unique and
amazing specimens. NWA 8276 is just such a meteorite. It is the second L3.00
and is possibly paired to NWA 7731. NWA 8276 features a rich, black crust
and a yellowish matrix densely packed with chondrules. Extensive analysis by
Dr. Carl Agee and Karen Ziegler support the 3.00 classification - a
classification that indicates no heat or aqueous alteration of any kind (at
least as far as can be presently evaluated). In fact, this meteorite
represents material from the earliest history of our solar system. Older
than CAIs? Not sure, but maybe Dr. Agee can chime in.

The complete writeup may be found here:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=3.00sfor=typesants=falls=;
valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=All
mblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=59487


The
explanation how this meteorite was identified makes for a short but very
good read (from MetBull):
Adam Bates identified this meteorite from images he received as a possible
pairing to NWA 7731,even though they came from a different Moroccan
meteorite dealer. Both pieces were then purchased within a few weeks of each
other in October 2013.

Adam Bates and I partnered on half the stone and anxiously awaited for Dr.
Agee's results. It was not a given that this was in fact paired with NWA
7731, especially since the meteorite was bought from a completely different
dealer. There were visual differences in the stone that led Carl to
initially believe that 8276 may be different from 7731. In the end, the
classification came back as L3.00 but with enough differences to state that
NWA 8276 is possibly paired with NWA 7731. The terrestrial weathering is
also
quite low and only an W1.

Many people state meteorites as being rare, but some are certainly rarer
than others. The type 3.00 classification has only been given to 3
meteorites: Semarkona (LL3.00), NWA 7731 (L3.00) and now NWA 8276 (L3.00).
Here is an excerpt from Dr. Agee's FB discussion with David Weir on the 3.00
classification and the rarity of this material:
Grossman and Brearley (2005)define the subtypes less than 3.2 as 3.15,
3.10, 3.05, and 3.00. [This scale is] primarily based on the mean value and
standard

Re: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO ordinary chondrite L3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting discussion?)

[Carl Agee]

Yes, I think you are hung-up on shock! Please take a look at the
MetBull entry if you want see an example of highest quality write-up
(JMHO). We literally included the kitchen sink on this one,
publication quality data set -- mainly because a 3.00 doesn't come
along every day.

Best regards,

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:09 PM, kashuba mary.kash...@verizon.net wrote:
 Mendy, Adam, List,

 Congratulations on discovering this special rock.  I saw it in Adam's room
 in Tucson and we talked about it.  A 3.00 calls to every collector.  But
 there was no shock rating so I was reluctant to buy.  There was another
 valuable stone at another dealer that I passed on for the same reason.

 Maybe I'm stuck in tradition, but when I'm considering a shocked stone, I
 like to know how shocked it is.  When I'm considering a pristine chondrite,
 I want to know how pristine.  That includes the effects of thermal
 metamorphism, aqueous alteration, terrestrial weathering and shock.  None of
 these is necessarily a deal breaker, but each plays into my seat of the
 pants cost-benefit deliberation.

 Semarkona is considered unshocked and unequilibrated.  It is spectacular in
 thin section.  It's hard to know what NWA 8276 L3.00 W1 would look like.

 Sincerely,

 John Kashuba
 Bend, Oregon

 -Original Message-
 From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
 [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mendy
 Ouzillou
 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:35 PM
 To: Met-List; Adam Bates
 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO ordinary chondrite
 L3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting discussion?)



 Hello everyone, The NWA desert continues to thrill us this with unique and
 amazing specimens. NWA 8276 is just such a meteorite. It is the second L3.00
 and is possibly paired to NWA 7731. NWA 8276 features a rich, black crust
 and a yellowish matrix densely packed with chondrules. Extensive analysis by
 Dr. Carl Agee and Karen Ziegler support the 3.00 classification - a
 classification that indicates no heat or aqueous alteration of any kind (at
 least as far as can be presently evaluated). In fact, this meteorite
 represents material from the earliest history of our solar system. Older
 than CAIs? Not sure, but maybe Dr. Agee can chime in.

 The complete writeup may be found here:
 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=3.00sfor=typesants=falls=;
 valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=All
 mblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=59487

 The
 explanation how this meteorite was identified makes for a short but very
 good read (from MetBull):
 Adam Bates identified this meteorite from images he received as a possible
 pairing to NWA 7731,even though they came from a different Moroccan
 meteorite dealer. Both pieces were then purchased within a few weeks of each
 other in October 2013.

 Adam Bates and I partnered on half the stone and anxiously awaited for Dr.
 Agee's results. It was not a given that this was in fact paired with NWA
 7731, especially since the meteorite was bought from a completely different
 dealer. There were visual differences in the stone that led Carl to
 initially believe that 8276 may be different from 7731. In the end, the
 classification came back as L3.00 but with enough differences to state that
 NWA 8276 is possibly paired with NWA 7731. The terrestrial weathering is
 also
 quite low and only an W1.

 Many people state meteorites as being rare, but some are certainly rarer
 than others. The type 3.00 classification has only been given to 3
 meteorites: Semarkona (LL3.00), NWA 7731 (L3.00) and now NWA 8276 (L3.00).
 Here is an excerpt from Dr. Agee's FB discussion with David Weir on the 3.00
 classification and the rarity of this material:
 Grossman and Brearley (2005)define the subtypes less than 3.2 as 3.15,
 3.10, 3.05, and 3.00. [This scale is] primarily based on the mean value and
 standard deviation of Cr2O3 in coarse ferroan chondrule olivines. I'm not
 saying that the Grossman and Brearley scheme is the ultimate, but it is
 simply the standard currently. What will really improve the subtype 3
 nomenclature (and understanding of unequilibrated OCs) are more samples like
 NWA 7731 and NWA 8276. Up to now we have so few in the 3.15-3.00 range that
 the statistics of small numbers makes it hard to have meaningful
 subdivisions. I would gladly use an even finer scale (i.e. 3.01, 3.02, 3.03,
 3.04 etc.) if it were actually established. The Grossman and Brearley (2005)
 scale is the only one that exists with any sort of sampling to anchor it. We
 just have too few samples to establish a finer scale. And when

Re: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO ordinary chondrite L3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting discussion?)

[Carl Agee]

Hi John,

NWA 8276 was analyzed completely independently of NWA 7731, although
we also did that one. Each one has its own data set.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 7:36 PM, kashuba mary.kash...@verizon.net wrote:
 Carl,



 Is this based on the thin sections UNM made of possibly paired NWA 7731
 L3.00 W1?



 - John





 From: cb.a...@gmail.com [mailto:cb.a...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Carl Agee
 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 6:23 PM
 To: Mendy Ouzillou
 Cc: kashuba; Adam Bates; Met-List


 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO ordinary
 chondrite L3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting discussion?)



 Shock is low.

 On Mar 10, 2014 6:23 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Carl,

 Your comments and questions are always welcome and I am already looking into
 it ...

 Can you comment on the shock question below?



 Mendy Ouzillou


 - Original Message -
 From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
 To: Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com
 Cc: kashuba mary.kash...@verizon.net; Met-List
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Adam Bates sa...@bcmeteorites.com
 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 5:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO ordinary
 chondrite L3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting discussion?)

 Probably none of my business, but I would have some thin sections
 made. We did that for NWA 7731 for research and they are spectacular.
 The porphyritic chondrules -- dazzling and crystal clear!

 Carl Agee
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com
 wrote:


  John,

  That is a great question and one that deserves an educated response. I
 will
 do my best, but hopefully Carl can chime in.

  We went back and forth on listing the shock for this stone and
 ultimately
 felt it would be confusing. Shock equals heat and this stone being a 3.00
 has
 had no thermal metamorphism. It is possible that its shock value is as
 high as
 S2 but as I understand it there is no way to reliably measure shock in
 such a
 low petrologic state as 3.00.

  Best!

  Mendy Ouzillou



 
  From: kashuba mary.kash...@verizon.net
 To: 'Mendy Ouzillou' ouzil...@yahoo.com;
 'Met-List' meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; 'Adam
 Bates' sa...@bcmeteorites.com
 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 5:09 PM
 Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO
 ordinary chondriteL3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting
 discussion?)


 Mendy, Adam, List,

 Congratulations on discovering this special rock.  I saw it in
 Adam's room
 in Tucson and we talked about it.  A 3.00 calls to every collector.  But
 there was no shock rating so I was reluctant to buy.  There was another
 valuable stone at another dealer that I passed on for the same reason.

 Maybe I'm stuck in tradition, but when I'm considering a shocked
 stone, I
 like to know how shocked it is.  When I'm considering a pristine
 chondrite,
 I want to know how pristine.  That includes the effects of thermal
 metamorphism, aqueous alteration, terrestrial weathering and shock.
 None of
 these is necessarily a deal breaker, but each plays into my seat of the
 pants cost-benefit deliberation.

 Semarkona is considered unshocked and unequilibrated.  It is spectacular
 in
 thin section.  It's hard to know what NWA 8276 L3.00 W1 would look
 like.

 Sincerely,

 John Kashuba
 Bend, Oregon

 -Original Message-
 From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
 [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mendy
 Ouzillou
 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:35 PM
 To: Met-List; Adam Bates
 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD]: NWA 8276 - the NOT SO
 ordinary chondrite
 L3.00/W1 (and the start of an interesting discussion?)



 Hello everyone, The NWA desert continues to thrill us this with unique
 and
 amazing specimens. NWA 8276 is just such a meteorite. It is the second
 L3.00
 and is possibly paired to NWA 7731. NWA 8276 features a
 rich, black crust
 and a yellowish matrix densely packed with chondrules. Extensive
 analysis by
 Dr. Carl Agee and Karen Ziegler support the 3.00 classification - a
 classification that indicates no heat or aqueous alteration of any kind
 (at
 least as far as can be presently evaluated). In fact, this meteorite
 represents material from the earliest history of our solar system. Older
 than CAIs? Not sure, but maybe Dr. Agee

[meteorite-list] Fwd: Results of ANSMET Nomad Robotic Meteorite RecoveryEffort?

[Carl Agee]

From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Results of ANSMET Nomad Robotic
Meteorite RecoveryEffort?
To: Galactic Stone  Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com


Mike,

From what I recall of this project the robot was not very good at
spotting meteorites, especially compared to what the human eye/brain
can do. What I took away from this is that humans are incredibly good
at spotting anomalous objects at great distances on the ice and likely
in sandy desert too. We are probably hardwired for this as a species
having to balance our quickly changing roles in daily life as predator
and prey. I imagine our distant ancestors spent a good deal of time
upright on the bipeds, scanning the horizon for dinner and to avoiding
becoming dinner.

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Brandon and Ed,

 Thanks for the link and thoughts about the program.  That link is
 exactly what I was looking for - some news about the results.
 Apparently the robot did find some meteorites.  Of course, a robot
 will never replace the expertise of a human when it comes to finding
 meteorites, they may prove to be useful in hazardous areas or very
 remote areas.

 Best regards and thanks again,

 MikeG


 On 3/7/14, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com wrote:
 Hi Mike,

 This link may provide some info for you.  Nomad apparently worked as
 advertised.
 http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-02/CMU-CMaN-0102100.php

 There are two links at the end of the article that unfortunately no longer
 seem to be working.

 Regards,
 Ed Deckert

 - Original Message -
 From: Galactic Stone  Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com
 To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 9:44 PM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Results of ANSMET Nomad Robotic Meteorite
 RecoveryEffort?


 Hi Listees,

 I was recently reading some old reports about the Nomad effort to
 recover meteorites from Antarctica using an autonomous robot.  The
 robot would follow a pattern in an area while surveying the
 surroundings with cameras and sensors.  Suspect rocks would be
 visually analyzed at a distance and promising candidates would be
 approach and analyzed in-situ using instruments on the rover.  The
 rover would then confirm if a rock was a meteorite and collect it if
 the tests were positive.

 I was able to find some press releases and media articles announcing
 or promoting the project, but I could not find any follow-up with the
 results.  The old websites dedicated to the Nomad effort are down.
 Does anyone know if the robot successfully recovered any meteorites?

 Best regards,

 MikeG


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Re: [meteorite-list] Results of ANSMET Nomad Robotic Meteorite RecoveryEffort?

[Carl Agee]

Not to get too far off meteorite topic, but anecdotally when I am
hiking with my border collies, I can usually spot a well camouflaged
coyote or wild horse walking on the next hillside, well before my dogs
do. They on the other hand, only need to get a whiff of a few
down-wind molecules to know there is something over there. So my
advice is forget about robots and dogs for spotting meteorites --
unless, in the case of dogs, the meteorites have an anomalous odor --
which possibly fresh falls do!!

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
 Date: Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 1:38 PM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Results of ANSMET Nomad Robotic
 Meteorite RecoveryEffort?
 To: Galactic Stone  Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com


 Mike,

 From what I recall of this project the robot was not very good at
 spotting meteorites, especially compared to what the human eye/brain
 can do. What I took away from this is that humans are incredibly good
 at spotting anomalous objects at great distances on the ice and likely
 in sandy desert too. We are probably hardwired for this as a species
 having to balance our quickly changing roles in daily life as predator
 and prey. I imagine our distant ancestors spent a good deal of time
 upright on the bipeds, scanning the horizon for dinner and to avoiding
 becoming dinner.

 Carl Agee
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
 meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Brandon and Ed,

 Thanks for the link and thoughts about the program.  That link is
 exactly what I was looking for - some news about the results.
 Apparently the robot did find some meteorites.  Of course, a robot
 will never replace the expertise of a human when it comes to finding
 meteorites, they may prove to be useful in hazardous areas or very
 remote areas.

 Best regards and thanks again,

 MikeG


 On 3/7/14, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com wrote:
 Hi Mike,

 This link may provide some info for you.  Nomad apparently worked as
 advertised.
 http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-02/CMU-CMaN-0102100.php

 There are two links at the end of the article that unfortunately no longer
 seem to be working.

 Regards,
 Ed Deckert

 - Original Message -
 From: Galactic Stone  Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com
 To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 9:44 PM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Results of ANSMET Nomad Robotic Meteorite
 RecoveryEffort?


 Hi Listees,

 I was recently reading some old reports about the Nomad effort to
 recover meteorites from Antarctica using an autonomous robot.  The
 robot would follow a pattern in an area while surveying the
 surroundings with cameras and sensors.  Suspect rocks would be
 visually analyzed at a distance and promising candidates would be
 approach and analyzed in-situ using instruments on the rover.  The
 rover would then confirm if a rock was a meteorite and collect it if
 the tests were positive.

 I was able to find some press releases and media articles announcing
 or promoting the project, but I could not find any follow-up with the
 results.  The old websites dedicated to the Nomad effort are down.
 Does anyone know if the robot successfully recovered any meteorites?

 Best regards,

 MikeG


 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 -
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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about the chemistry of the Martian atmosphere and Martian meteorites

[Carl Agee]

MikeG,

Really good question! When you look at the data there are actually
few, if any, martian meteorites that are a perfect match for noble gas
isotopes of Viking. They tend to be a mixture of Viking and Earth
atmosphere, and there are spallation effects for Ar-isotopes. It has
been proposed that ALH 84001 contains ancient martian atmosphere that
is different from Viking, especially for Xe. However NWA 7034, which
is also ancient (albeit a breccia), has some of the most Viking-like
noble gas values. This is not my field so I am treading on thin ice
perhaps, but I would say that the picture is still not clear and Earth
contamination is always a factor. Also, it is possible that some of
the atmospheric gases were implanted at the time of impact that
launched the material off Mars (i.e. recent).

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 7:05 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi List,

 The CRE of the various Martian meteorites ranges from just under one
 million years to almost twenty million years.  In terms of overall
 geologic history, this is a recent window of impact events that has
 produced the Martian meteorites in our collections.

 Scientists have confirmed the Martian origin of these meteorites by
 analyzing trapped atmospheric gases inside the meteorites.  However,
 the composition of the trapped gases is being compared against very
 recent data (starting with Viking).

 Does this mean that the Martian atmosphere has not changed in millions
 of years?  Or, do the analyses take into account observed/theorized
 changes in the atmospheric chemistry?

 I am a little unclear on this.

 Best regards,

 MikeG
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Re: [meteorite-list] Near pure Olivine Meteorite

[Carl Agee]

Hi Jim,

Nature abhors pure anything. Chassignites are martian dunites.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Jim Wooddell
jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 So, we find pallasites, we find irons, we find chondrites.  And, with the
 pallasites some are loaded with a lot of olivine.  So anyone have any
 scientific ideas why we don't find near pure olivine meteorites?  Or do we??

 For the sake of conversation...

 Jim

 --
 Jim Wooddell
 jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net
 http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/

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Re: [meteorite-list] What is more important in classification?

[Carl Agee]

Hi Jim,

The electron microprobe is the workhorse for classifications, and most
of this can be done simply with a probe mount (epoxy mounted sample
that has been polished). In general you don't need a thin section or a
petrographic microscope, although I always use a reflected light
petrographic microscope for reconnaissance of the probe mount before
it goes on the electron probe. The electron microprobe produces
quantitative data that is usually necessary for detailed, high quality
classification of chondrites and achondrites. For example the chemical
compositions of fine grained olivines, pyroxenes, feldspars, etc.
(which are diagnostic for classification) can really only be done with
high precision by the electron microprobe.

On the other hand, a polished thin section is nice because it can be
both microprobed and be used for optical examination. There are some
useful things you can do with transmitted light microscopy, such as
describe shock effects and weathering and other optical subtleties
that will not be easy to see with backscatter electrons. A lot of this
type of detail though is not really needed for a classification. It
gets into the realm of a research project, where you might also want
TEM or age dating or cosmic ray exposure and so on -- the list of
instruments is very long...

Thin sections are more work to make than probe mounts. For iron
meteorites usually a probe mount is all you need, because all you will
be doing is looking at or analyzing the surface. And for irons, bulk
chemical analyses are usually done for classification, which is not
usually the case for chondrites and achondrites -- although for lunars
INAA is great for grouping the breccias.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Jim Wooddell
jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Hi all!

 Just a few general questions...

 The involves a mount and a thin section.

 What is more important now-a-days in classification?  This mainly revolves
 some questions I have that I am
 not sure how to ask...mainly to those that classify.

 If you have a million dollar Scanning Election Microscope and can probe
 around and
 can determine classification from the geochem and BSE images, how
 important is it to see the transmitted and reflected features in a
 petrographic microscope?

 I suppose my thoughts and questions are possibly in reference to new
 technology vs. old
 technologymaybe not...but close and really deeper than just yes and no
 answers.  Not that SEM's are new technology...just saying.

 I was told a while back you can not classify without both.  So Why???  Are
 the SEM's not capable of doing what
 a petrographic microscope can do?

 Thanks!

 Jim




 --
 Jim Wooddell
 jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net
 http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/

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Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Hi MikeG and All:

The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it
(olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal
from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly
associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate
inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the
lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to
sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid.

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Mike and List,

 Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story
 one day.  I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was
 a little scary.

 There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is
 obviously not an L6 chondrite.  So what do we call a mass like Mike's
 superb iron shield?  Do we refer to his specimen as  Katol (L6) or
 do we refer to it as something else?  Does Katol have some similarity
 with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different
 lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield?

 So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is
 granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group.  Has
 anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's
 that don't match the majority lithology?  I'd be curious if they also
 fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a
 ride in the Katol rubble-pile.

 Good stuff.  It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention.  :)

 Best regards,

 MikeG
 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 -





 On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:
 Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and
 bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich
 sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to
 acquire was a little scary.
 Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible
 photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got.
 The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson
 show.
 Michael Farmer

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:

 Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece?
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com
 wrote:
 No chondrules.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines
 and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin...

 Graham

 On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree
 with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images.

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and
 spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust?

 Thanks for sharing Mike!

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell
 jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Thanks Jeff!

 Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images
 now!
 Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share!

 If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to
 wait!


 Jim






 On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote

Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Mike,

Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am
saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and
confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about
multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply
describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well
supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are
unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules!

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:
 Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less 
 than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right 
 in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around 
 picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere 
 including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one 
 stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, 
 among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous 
 partial iron and partial stone pieces.
 Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become 
 complete individuals during the fall.
 I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was 
 found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his 
 house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite!
 Michael Farmer

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:

 Hi MikeG and All:

 The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it
 (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal
 from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly
 associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate
 inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the
 lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to
 sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid.

 Carl Agee
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
 meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Mike and List,

 Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story
 one day.  I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was
 a little scary.

 There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is
 obviously not an L6 chondrite.  So what do we call a mass like Mike's
 superb iron shield?  Do we refer to his specimen as  Katol (L6) or
 do we refer to it as something else?  Does Katol have some similarity
 with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different
 lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield?

 So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is
 granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group.  Has
 anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's
 that don't match the majority lithology?  I'd be curious if they also
 fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a
 ride in the Katol rubble-pile.

 Good stuff.  It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention.  :)

 Best regards,

 MikeG
 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 -





 On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:
 Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines 
 and
 bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich
 sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure 
 to
 acquire was a little scary.
 Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible
 photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got.
 The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson
 show.
 Michael Farmer

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:

 Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece?
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico

Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and
spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust?

Thanks for sharing Mike!

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell
jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Thanks Jeff!

 Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now!
 Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share!

 If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait!


 Jim






 On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:

 Mike's photo in posted in the database now.

 Jeff

 On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote:


 --
 Jim Wooddell
 jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net
 http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/

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Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree
with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and
 spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust?

 Thanks for sharing Mike!

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell
 jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Thanks Jeff!

 Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now!
 Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share!

 If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait!


 Jim






 On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:

 Mike's photo in posted in the database now.

 Jeff

 On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote:


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Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece?
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:
 No chondrules.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines
 and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin...

 Graham

 On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree
 with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images.

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and
 spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust?

 Thanks for sharing Mike!

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell
 jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Thanks Jeff!

 Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now!
 Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share!

 If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait!


 Jim






 On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:

 Mike's photo in posted in the database now.

 Jeff

 On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote:


 --
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 jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net
 http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/

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Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Check out the geochem plots now posted in the MetBull for Katol:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=24.9y=0.4plot=2label=Katol%20%28L6%29
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=21.9y=0.5plot=3label=Katol%20%28L6%29
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=24.9y=21.9plot=1label=Katol%20%28L6%29
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=4.961;4.867y=3.549;3.596z=0.930;1.026plot=10label=Katol%20%28L6%29
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:
 There are many variations in Katol, some pieces were almost achondrite-like 
 shiny glossy crust, some were more chondritic looking, others were all or 
 partial iron. I know of 5 complete iron pieces.
 It is not heterogenous.
 Michael Farmer

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@e.net wrote:

 Hi Mike and all!

 I have not seen Katol, except for your sample.  Am I assuming correctly that 
 your high iron specimen is what is mentioned in the write-up?  If it is,
 does this mean your specimen is not representative of the others? The way I 
 read it, it is not. What do the other samples look like?

 Jim


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Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much
mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a
nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung?
Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all.

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell
jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Nice GeoChem data.  Interesting to see the XFR data included.


 Happy New Year!

 Jim Wooddell




 On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote:

 Dear list members,
   Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now!


 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500
   Happy new year 2014 to all of you!
   Martin
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Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Hi Mike,

No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by
saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden
variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony
to lab data being the blind taste test.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:
 Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, 
 very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, 
 including many scientists.
 I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with 
 crystals.
 Not your garden variety L6 for sure.
 Michael Farmer

 Sent from my iPad

 On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:

 Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much
 mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a
 nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung?
 Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all.

 Carl Agee
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell
 jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Nice GeoChem data.  Interesting to see the XFR data included.


 Happy New Year!

 Jim Wooddell




 On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote:

 Dear list members,
  Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now!


 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500
  Happy new year 2014 to all of you!
  Martin
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Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Mike, Andy, Jim,

I don't have bias one way or another in the case of Katol, but looking
at the data in the write-up this is a clear-cut L6 chondrite -- no
ambiguity. There are chondrules albeit highly equilbrated, the
olivines are L6, the pyroxenes are L6, the oxygen isotopes are
L-chondrite. If there were no chondrules, high Wo and OC-type olivine
and pyroxene, then one could make the case for type 7. I'm just going
by the numbers given in the write-up, I haven't looked at this beyond
a quick glance in hand specimen, not an achondrite -- period.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:
 I was also under the impression that this was transitional likely between L
 chondrites and primitive achondrites.
 Michael Farmer

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Andy Tomkins rockdo...@gmail.com wrote:

 With great respect and just to be a little bit controversial...  With a high
 wollastonite content in the opx like that, sparse remnant chondrules and
 many of the other features, perhaps this might be a L7? An example of why
 there needs to be a clearer definition of what defines Type 6 from Type 7?

 Andy Tomkins

 On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Andy Tomkins wrote:



 On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Carl Agee wrote:

 Hi Mike,

 No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by
 saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden
 variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony
 to lab data being the blind taste test.

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com
 wrote:
  Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the
  matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an
  achondrite, including many scientists.
  I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green
  with crystals.
  Not your garden variety L6 for sure.
  Michael Farmer
 
  Sent from my iPad
 
  On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 
  Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much
  mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a
  nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung?
  Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all.
 
  Carl Agee
  *
  Carl B. Agee
  Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
  Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
  MSC03 2050
  University of New Mexico
  Albuquerque NM 87131-1126
 
  Tel: (505) 750-7172
  Fax: (505) 277-3577
  Email: a...@unm.edu
  http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
 
 
 
  On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell
  jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
  Nice GeoChem data.  Interesting to see the XFR data included.
 
 
  Happy New Year!
 
  Jim Wooddell
 
 
 
 
  On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote:
 
  Dear list members,
   Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now!
 
 
 
  http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500
   Happy new year 2014 to all of you!
   Martin
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  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date:
  12/31/13
 
 
 
  --
  Jim Wooddell
  jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net
  http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/
 
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Jason,

The lab data suggest more than just L. The low standard deviation on
the Fa and Fs indicate type 5 or 6, with the the faint chondrules and
high Wo we are definitely at type 6. Just because it's hard to see the
chondrules with a petrographic microscope doesn't mean they aren't
there. I hope you aren't suggesting that we go back to optically
determining 2Vs in olivine to get the Fa-content. Electron microprobes
are modern the workhorse for classification, add in oxygen isotopes
and you have it pretty much covered.

Carl

PS: the albitic plagioclase in Katol is OC plag.

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote:
 The lab data you (Carl) mention suggests only L, nothing more.  No
 one's arguing with that.  We had that data months ago.

 As I understand it, not one chondrule was observed optically in Katol;
 they were found only when examining BSE images.  This would have ruled
 out a chondritic classification prior to the widespread use of SEM's.
 And the fact that we're discussing this now is relevant; no other
 type 6 chondrite has been metamorphosed to this extent (literally
 invisible chondrules, unless you have a multi-million dollar piece of
 equipment at your disposal).

 Since this meteorite doesn't texturally resemble any known L's, having
 been melted and slowly cooled to a poikilitic texture, deeming it an
 L6 is pigeonholing it.  Larger-scale heterogeneities resulted in 140
 gram iron meteorites and 200+ gram literally metallic-iron-free
 meteorites with glossy Ca-rich fusion crusts.  Such things aren't
 usually glossed over when classifying a meteorite.

 It's just like calling Al Haggounia 001 an aubrite, EL6/7, or EL3.
 Just because you can justify a classification with a few parameters
 doesn't make it an accurate descriptor of a meteorite.  Which of those
 classifications is best?  EL3.  Is it right?  No.  That stone doesn't
 texturally resemble any other (enstatite) chondrites of any kind.
 It's anomalous.

 Rather like Katol.

 Jason

 www.fallsandfinds.com


 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Hi Mike,

 No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by
 saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden
 variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony
 to lab data being the blind taste test.

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com 
 wrote:
 Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the 
 matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an 
 achondrite, including many scientists.
 I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with 
 crystals.
 Not your garden variety L6 for sure.
 Michael Farmer

 Sent from my iPad

 On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:

 Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much
 mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a
 nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung?
 Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all.

 Carl Agee
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell
 jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Nice GeoChem data.  Interesting to see the XFR data included.


 Happy New Year!

 Jim Wooddell




 On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote:

 Dear list members,
  Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now!


 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500
  Happy new year 2014 to all of you!
  Martin
 __

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Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official

[Carl Agee]

Hi Jason et al.

Nice that the Met-list is lively again!

Poikilitic shergotitte is Tony Irving's invention and woe to those who
don't use that term, and instead use the antiquated lherzolitic. I'm
one of those old fashion people who actually like the term lherzolitic
shergottite, but have succumb to severe peer-pressure and now use
poikilitic in my write-ups. I did have a chance recently to invent
another new martian meteorite name Augite Basalt (NWA 8159), which I
am sure will be subject to all sorts of nomenclature pot-shots. Also I
have been told by several experts that NWA 7034 is regolith breccia
and not a basaltic breccia.

Happy New Year!

Carl


*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello Carl, All,
 The low standard deviation on Fa and Fs denotes a high degree of
 equilibration, not just 5 or 6.  Five or above would be more
 accurate.  The nearly absent chondrules and high Wo are at [or beyond]
 type 6.  If you're a researcher who believes in type 7 chondrites,
 since not all do.

 Based upon similar observations, one would simply call Al Haggounia
 001 an aubrite, or an EL3 if one were lucky enough to find an
 unequilibrated chondrule.  The textural observations would be
 irrelevant.  If we looked at other meteorites in a similar fashion,
 subgroups and textural designations would disappear.

 Since nomenclature blows back and forth, this is something of a
 semantic argument; as I understand it, the poikilitic shergottite
 you recently analyzed would have been a lherzolite only a few years
 ago, and no amount of discussion then or now would have changed that.
 And there is of course variation in analyses.  NWA 5205 is paired with
 NWA 5421 and our NWA 6501.  Which was supposedly paired with NWA 6283.
  Very distinctive material, with classifications ranging from LL3.2 to
 LL3.7 to H3.6.

 But you did note that the shergottite was poikilitic.  So is Katol.
 This stone has been metamorphosed in a unique way for a chondrite, and
 its classification required a much greater degree of attention because
 of that.  But the result does not reflect that.  Just like Al
 Haggounia 001, the aubrite.   It's odd, and I do think that
 'pigeonholing' is the right term to use here.

 Regards,
 Jason

 www.fallsandfinds.com


 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Mike, Andy, Jim,

 I don't have bias one way or another in the case of Katol, but looking
 at the data in the write-up this is a clear-cut L6 chondrite -- no
 ambiguity. There are chondrules albeit highly equilbrated, the
 olivines are L6, the pyroxenes are L6, the oxygen isotopes are
 L-chondrite. If there were no chondrules, high Wo and OC-type olivine
 and pyroxene, then one could make the case for type 7. I'm just going
 by the numbers given in the write-up, I haven't looked at this beyond
 a quick glance in hand specimen, not an achondrite -- period.

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com 
 wrote:
 I was also under the impression that this was transitional likely between L
 chondrites and primitive achondrites.
 Michael Farmer

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Andy Tomkins rockdo...@gmail.com wrote:

 With great respect and just to be a little bit controversial...  With a high
 wollastonite content in the opx like that, sparse remnant chondrules and
 many of the other features, perhaps this might be a L7? An example of why
 there needs to be a clearer definition of what defines Type 6 from Type 7?

 Andy Tomkins

 On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Andy Tomkins wrote:



 On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Carl Agee wrote:

 Hi Mike,

 No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by
 saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden
 variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony
 to lab data being the blind taste test.

 Carl
 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com
 wrote:
  Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green

Re: [meteorite-list] ADVERT: Subtype 3.00 — NO RESERVE

[Carl Agee]

Hi Mendy,

Yes, NWA 7731 crust is quite fresh. The standard weathering grades for
ordinary chondrites based on the oxidation of iron-nickel-metal is
somewhat problematic for the most unequilibrated of the 3-subtypes
because the matrix is actually a very fine opaque mixture of sulfur
and iron that is hard to characterize for degree of weathering. In the
meantime, since it was classified, we have done oxygen isotopes on the
bulk sample and they are very heterogeneous (some actually plot on the
TFL) as one would expect based on the earlier work on Semarkona. There
has been ion probe and Raman done at Hawaii and some of this will be
reported at the 2014 LPSC -- I'll post the abstract when they are
published later this January. There is some indication that
extraterrestrial aqueous alteration has affected the matrix -- but
even Semarkona has some of this type of aqueous alteration. Subtypes
3.00 ( like L2.9 etc.) are not used in OC even though some aqueous
alteration might be present. A while back Hutchison et al. (1987)
proposed that Semarkona is in fact LL2, but it doesn't seem like that
idea ever caught on.

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Wow Darryl, that slice of NWA7731 is amazing. I vaguely recall a discussion 
 on the list regarding this L3.00, but do not recall the weathering. Based on 
 the description in the MetBull it is hard to ascertain the actual weathering 
 grade. From the picture of the crust in the listing, it looks pretty fresh.

 Hoping Carl can jump in and provide some insights and hoping I have not asked 
 this vaguely familiar question before.


 Mendy Ouzillou




 From: Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com
To: meteorite-list List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 9:17 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] ADVERT:  Subtype 3.00 — NO RESERVE




Hi Folks!

Hoping you're well.

Select auctions ending late this afternoon — all with no reserve:

http://bit.ly/1gHpc8M

Featuring

NWA 7731 - subtype 3.00 - along with Semarkona (which is untouchable) this is 
THE most primitive, unequilibrated planetary material that exists—and it's a 
complete slice!

NWA 5717 - subtype 3.05 - two edges of fusion crust along with a rare dark 
inclusion;

TISSINT - two edges sides of fusion crust;

VALERA - the only meteorite known to have killed an animal;

KAINSAZ - rare CO3.2 witnessed fall;

NWA 7944 - a new, fresh Martian meteorite;

NWA 7214 - the freshest aubrite obtainable (W0/W1) that is not a witnessed 
fall;


Good luck and Happy Holidays!


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Re: [meteorite-list] Rare space rock goes unnoticed for 140 years - space - 13 December 2013 - New Scientist

[Carl Agee]

Marco,

Gefeliciteerd!

-Carl

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Marco Langbroek
marco.langbr...@online.nl wrote:
 Hi listoids,

 No Diepenveen, as the meteorite is now officially called, in the Met
 Bull, sorry.
 Best regards.
 Michel Franco
 IMCA 3869



 That's because the meteorite still has to be submitted. It's not an official
 name yet.

 It will probably be submitted in the next few weeks after some additional
 microprobe work to complement earlier preliminary work.

 I am one of the PI's on this meteorite.

 The meteorite is officially the 5th meteorite of the Netherlands in the
 sense that we have established it is a meteorite indeed, a CM Carbonaceous
 meteorite more exactly, and not paired to a known meteorite.

 Last Thursday, the former owner of the meteorite in a ceremony handed over
 the stone to the Dutch National Museum of Natural History in Leiden, with
 press present, hence why it is in the news now.

 For some pictures of the stone, see here:

 http://home.online.nl/marco.langbroek/diepnl.html

 (apologies that there is only a Dutch text for the moment)

 More news on this meteorite somewhere next year when we have completed
 several analysis. Besides our VU University Amsterdam, several international
 institutions are involved (Oxygen isotopes were done at UNM for example and
 CRE at UC Berkeley) and research is still ongoing.

 This is the 5th surviving meteorite of the Netherlands but the third
 chronologically if we look at the fall date, 27 October 1873.
 Chronologically it is the 2nd witnessed CM fall, after Cold Bokkeveld.

 For those of you who master Dutch, there is a TV news item in Dutch about
 the handover ceremony here, including some short snippets of interview with
 me, the former owner, and the amateur astronomer who basically
 'rediscovered' it in the former owner's rock collection 139 years after it
 fell:

 http://youtu.be/8IPR9vrQoR4

 There is only one stone (a half stone actually: 50-65% fusion crust),
 originally weighing 68 grams before sampling. It came in a wooden box with a
 beautiful hand-written label with details including location, date, time,
 phenomena, name of the person who picked it up etcetera. With some
 additional archive research, we can pinpoint the fall location to a few
 hundred yards.

 Cheers,

 - Marco


 -
 Dr Marco Langbroek

 Faculty of Earth and Life Sciences
 VU University Amsterdam
 -

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Re: [meteorite-list] Rare space rock goes unnoticed for 140 years - space - 13 December 2013 - New Scientist

[Carl Agee]

For those of you who don't understand Dutch, the lady in the YouTube
clip is the owner of Diepenveen and she donated it to museum Naturalis
(which is the merger of the Royal Museums at Leiden). Neat story, and
clearly great publicity for meteoritics! Now just waiting on Karen
Ziegler to tell everyone what the oxygen isotopes are :)

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Marco Langbroek
marco.langbr...@online.nl wrote:
 Hi listoids,

 No Diepenveen, as the meteorite is now officially called, in the Met
 Bull, sorry.
 Best regards.
 Michel Franco
 IMCA 3869



 That's because the meteorite still has to be submitted. It's not an official
 name yet.

 It will probably be submitted in the next few weeks after some additional
 microprobe work to complement earlier preliminary work.

 I am one of the PI's on this meteorite.

 The meteorite is officially the 5th meteorite of the Netherlands in the
 sense that we have established it is a meteorite indeed, a CM Carbonaceous
 meteorite more exactly, and not paired to a known meteorite.

 Last Thursday, the former owner of the meteorite in a ceremony handed over
 the stone to the Dutch National Museum of Natural History in Leiden, with
 press present, hence why it is in the news now.

 For some pictures of the stone, see here:

 http://home.online.nl/marco.langbroek/diepnl.html

 (apologies that there is only a Dutch text for the moment)

 More news on this meteorite somewhere next year when we have completed
 several analysis. Besides our VU University Amsterdam, several international
 institutions are involved (Oxygen isotopes were done at UNM for example and
 CRE at UC Berkeley) and research is still ongoing.

 This is the 5th surviving meteorite of the Netherlands but the third
 chronologically if we look at the fall date, 27 October 1873.
 Chronologically it is the 2nd witnessed CM fall, after Cold Bokkeveld.

 For those of you who master Dutch, there is a TV news item in Dutch about
 the handover ceremony here, including some short snippets of interview with
 me, the former owner, and the amateur astronomer who basically
 'rediscovered' it in the former owner's rock collection 139 years after it
 fell:

 http://youtu.be/8IPR9vrQoR4

 There is only one stone (a half stone actually: 50-65% fusion crust),
 originally weighing 68 grams before sampling. It came in a wooden box with a
 beautiful hand-written label with details including location, date, time,
 phenomena, name of the person who picked it up etcetera. With some
 additional archive research, we can pinpoint the fall location to a few
 hundred yards.

 Cheers,

 - Marco


 -
 Dr Marco Langbroek

 Faculty of Earth and Life Sciences
 VU University Amsterdam
 -

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Re: [meteorite-list] SoCal Fireball - 19:50 PST 06 November 2013

[Carl Agee]

Yes, and can we please have a first lunar fall? Oh, and I want a piece
for the Museum :)

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:
 lets hope this one can be found!

 Michael Farmer

 Sent from my iPad

 On Nov 6, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Rob Matson mojave_meteori...@cox.net wrote:

 Resending... message didn't post when I sent it ~2 hours ago:

 Hi All,

 Observed a very bright (mag -12) fireball on my drive home this
 evening at 7:50 pm PST (3:50 UT 07 November 2013). Starting
 direction was to my east from latitude 33.6879 N, -117.9144 W,
 at an elevation of about 25 degrees, and terminus was perhaps
 10-15 degrees south of east (azimuth 100-105) at about 10-degree
 elevation. Duration was around 3 seconds, and there were multiple
 flashes and fragmentation.

 Posted my obs to the AMS website a few minutes ago and see that
 there are dozens of others who have already done so. My time
 should be very accurate as I checked my watch within a few
 seconds of the end of the fireball. Call it 7:50:00 pm +/- 30
 seconds. This should be easy to find on all-sky cameras, and
 if anything survived to the ground it is definitely over land.
 I'd guess somewhere east of I-15 and south of I-10.

 --Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite

[Carl Agee]

Martin,

Thanks for posting! I think I was able to decipher the article's
translation. I am left with the impression that all the Norwegian
scientists are asking is that the Grefsen be classified?

I did check the MetBull and this is the result: No records found for
meteorites with names that contain Grefsen; No synonyms containing
Grefsen were found.

Seems incredibly short-sighted of the holders of the main mass not to
want it classified given that all that all they will give up is 20g!
Plus the value will be enhanced. Furthermore, this is also the type of
bad behavior that does get attention of government officials, and so
at some point they may indeed change the current finder is owner
rule to finder must give all to the Kingdom of Norway.

Or perhaps this is a Norwegian turf war? Perhaps an outsider could
convince the owners to do the right thing and get it classified. Has
anyone contacted them?

Carl Agee


*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



2013/10/31 karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de:
 New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite

 http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245

 Martin

 
 Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und 
 endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben.
 http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos


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Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)

[Carl Agee]

I think where NWA and the hot desert finds have had the greatest
benefit to science with a capital S are in achondrites and in
particular martian meteorites. If you look at the abstracts at
2012-2013 LPSC and MetSoc (no, I didn't actually count them) the
martian meteorite literature is now dominated by NWA finds and
Tissint. Again, ANSMET just isn't nearly as productive, and you can
have multi-year dry spells when no ANSMET martians were recovered.
Recently it has been very sparse with 1 pairing in 2012, 1 pairing in
2009, 1 find in 2006. In fact, according to MetBull,  in the last ten
years there have been only 6 martians (12, not counting pairings)
recovered. Another ANSMET martian drought was 1994-2000. Lunars in NWA
are productive too, but interestingly dominated by feldspathic
breccias. For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future,
there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of
Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we
return to the Moon. In contrast, a Mars sample return seems to always
be 10 years away with a continually out-of-reach horizon. So martian
meteorites, mostly from NWA, will be our Mars sample return until we
get a President who tells NASA to go to Mars with MSR or humans (or
until Chinese beat us to it).

Carl

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Jeff Stated:  Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which 
 is the trend we all see.

 I agree with this statement.  They were not subequal just a few years ago 
 meaning the trend is favoring hot desert finds long term.

 The number of rare and unusual meteorites coming out of the hot deserts far 
 exceed those being recovered from Antarctica.

 Adam




 --- Original Message -

 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Cc:
 Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA 
 vs Antarctica)

 50% is not even close.  I counted the peer-reviewed papers in the 2012
 volume of MAPS.  In the 58 non-review papers that reported analyses of
 physical samples of meteorites, 52% used falls, 12% used non-desert
 finds,  24% used hot desert meteorites, and 28% used Antarctic
 meteorites.  (this sums to 100% because some papers reported data in
 multiple categories).

 So, if 2012 in MAPS is representative (I'm done counting, so I can't
 answer that), when it comes to the question of what are the most
 important meteorites for Science these days, it isn't hot OR cold desert
 meteorites... it's observed falls.   Papers on hot and cold desert
 meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see.

 Jeff


 On 10/10/2013 12:27 AM, Adam Hupe wrote:
 I will not debate the legacy of Antarctic meteorites.  They have had a 
 wonderful history and their contribution to  science has been invaluable.  
 Most researchers are sample oriented and are not biased by find location but 
 there are still a few that cling to legacy.  Antarctica had a a two decade 
 plus head start in the abstract/paper queue so naturally there are more 
 documents.  Ten years ago, maybe one in ten papers were on hot desert finds. 
 Now, I estimate about 50%.  At this rate, as very important samples from NWA 
 and other deserts enter the queue, it will not be long before these finds 
 handily overtake Antarctica by a wide margin in the business of science.

 In other words; There is not enough material coming out of Antarctica 
 anymore to reverse the current trend which favors the hot desert meteorites 
 for research material in the future.


 Adam

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Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)

[Carl Agee]

Adam,

I totally agree! And actually the lunar meteorites are telling us that
the Apollo collection is highly skewed towards the mare basalts and
other  possibly atypical rocks of the nearside. Now if we could just
prove that a particular lunar meteorite was a sample from the South
Pole Aitken Basin!

Carl


*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Carl Stated  For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future, there 
 will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of Moon rocks 
 from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we return to the Moon.

 I agree that the Apollo returned Moon rocks are a national treasure.  One of 
 the highlights of my life was seeing some of these specimens for myself up 
 close and personal in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory (Vault) at the NASA 
 facility at the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center where this precious material 
 is stored.

 Where lunar finds contribute to science is that many have come from unsampled 
 parts of the Moon.  There are a few unique Lunaite examples that provide 
 additional understanding of our nearest celestial neighbor.   I was pleased 
 to see a poster of NWA 5000 on the wall right across the hall from the NASA 
 Moon rock vault.  This tells me that the researches are sample oriented and 
 where a Moon rock comes from is secondary.


 This enhances data acquisition instead of competing against it.

 Adam





 - Original Message -
 From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
 To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:35 AM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA 
 vs Antarctica)

 I think where NWA and the hot desert finds have had the greatest
 benefit to science with a capital S are in achondrites and in
 particular martian meteorites. If you look at the abstracts at
 2012-2013 LPSC and MetSoc (no, I didn't actually count them) the
 martian meteorite literature is now dominated by NWA finds and
 Tissint. Again, ANSMET just isn't nearly as productive, and you can
 have multi-year dry spells when no ANSMET martians were recovered.
 Recently it has been very sparse with 1 pairing in 2012, 1 pairing in
 2009, 1 find in 2006. In fact, according to MetBull,  in the last ten
 years there have been only 6 martians (12, not counting pairings)
 recovered. Another ANSMET martian drought was 1994-2000. Lunars in NWA
 are productive too, but interestingly dominated by feldspathic
 breccias. For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future,
 there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of
 Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we
 return to the Moon. In contrast, a Mars sample return seems to always
 be 10 years away with a continually out-of-reach horizon. So martian
 meteorites, mostly from NWA, will be our Mars sample return until we
 get a President who tells NASA to go to Mars with MSR or humans (or
 until Chinese beat us to it).

 Carl

 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Jeff Stated:  Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which 
 is the trend we all see.

 I agree with this statement.  They were not subequal just a few years ago 
 meaning the trend is favoring hot desert finds long term.

 The number of rare and unusual meteorites coming out of the hot deserts far 
 exceed those being recovered from Antarctica.

 Adam




 --- Original Message -

 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Cc:
 Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA 
 vs Antarctica)

 50% is not even close.  I counted the peer-reviewed papers in the 2012
 volume of MAPS.  In the 58 non-review papers that reported analyses of
 physical samples of meteorites, 52% used falls, 12% used non-desert
 finds,  24% used hot desert meteorites, and 28% used Antarctic
 meteorites.  (this sums to 100% because some papers reported data in
 multiple categories).

 So, if 2012 in MAPS is representative (I'm done counting, so I can't
 answer that), when it comes to the question of what are the most
 important meteorites for Science these days, it isn't hot OR cold desert
 meteorites... it's

Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)

[Carl Agee]

Hi Mike,

Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be
King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince!

The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that
weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher
material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of
exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries
over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King!

Carl


*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Adam and List,

 Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and
 Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara
 that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest :

 Black Beauty (NWA 7034)

 Tissint

 Jbilet Winselwan

 NWA 5000

 NWA 998

 Almahata Sitta

 NWA 4301

 Zag

 Gebel Kamil

 Too many Vestans to list.

 I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion.
 The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject
 to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds.
 Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated,
 ordinary chondrites.  But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of
 paired finds.  So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus
 Antarctics is about even.

 Best regards and happy huntings,

 MikeG

 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
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 -






 On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:


 It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in
 Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara

 Adam




 - Original Message -
 From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Cc:
 Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica

 Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth
 The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica.
 By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine
 http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html

 Yours,

 Paul H.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)

[Carl Agee]

Northwest Africa 2737, the only other chassignite.
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Hi Mike,

 Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be
 King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince!

 The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that
 weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher
 material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of
 exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries
 over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King!

 Carl


 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
 meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Adam and List,

 Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and
 Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara
 that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest :

 Black Beauty (NWA 7034)

 Tissint

 Jbilet Winselwan

 NWA 5000

 NWA 998

 Almahata Sitta

 NWA 4301

 Zag

 Gebel Kamil

 Too many Vestans to list.

 I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion.
 The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject
 to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds.
 Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated,
 ordinary chondrites.  But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of
 paired finds.  So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus
 Antarctics is about even.

 Best regards and happy huntings,

 MikeG

 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
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 -






 On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:


 It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in
 Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara

 Adam




 - Original Message -
 From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Cc:
 Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica

 Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth
 The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica.
 By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine
 http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html

 Yours,

 Paul H.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)

[Carl Agee]

Mendy,

Absolutely! I remember the curation folks at NASA JSC describing the
mind-numbing ordeal of having to catalog hundreds of EOCs brought back
by ANSMET, many of which were of course the same meteorite.

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Carl,

 I'm guessing that the reason for the disparity you speak of below between NWA 
 and Antarctic meteorites is that EVERY antarctic meteorite get collected with 
 no filtering while the NWA meteorites are brought to light by economic 
 drivers. Old, weathered or uninteresting material does not get brought forth 
 because almost no one wants to buy it and fewer still would bother 
 classifying. It is an interesting aspect of the NWA dynamics that has not 
 been explored and a perfect example of the role collectors and dealers play 
 in acting as filters for the scientific community.

 Best,


 Mendy



 On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:

 Northwest Africa 2737, the only other chassignite.
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/




On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Hi Mike,

 Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be
 King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince!

 The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that
 weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher
 material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of
 exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries
 over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King!

 Carl


 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
 meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Adam and List,

 Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and
 Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara
 that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest :

 Black Beauty (NWA 7034)

 Tissint

 Jbilet Winselwan

 NWA 5000

 NWA 998

 Almahata Sitta

 NWA 4301

 Zag

 Gebel Kamil

 Too many Vestans to list.

 I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion.
 The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject
 to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds.
 Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated,
 ordinary chondrites.  But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of
 paired finds.  So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus
 Antarctics is about even.

 Best regards and happy huntings,

 MikeG

 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 -






 On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:


 It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in
 Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara

 Adam




 - Original Message -
 From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Cc:
 Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica

 Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth
 The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica.
 By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine
 http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html

 Yours,

 Paul H.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)

[Carl Agee]

Weathering rates for New Mexico, Sahara, and Antarctica:
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1993Metic..28Q.460W
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:
 It is myth that Antarctic meteorites are less weathered. They weather 
 differently is all.  I have been in the Antarctic Laboratory and can tell 
 that most of the inventory is not free of rusticles and evaporation deposits. 
  After all, Antarctica gets its weather right of the salt water ocean.   It 
 seems only the best looking material is ever put on public display.

 Adam






 - Original Message -
 From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
 To: Galactic Stone  Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com
 Cc: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam 
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA 
 vs Antarctica)

 Hi Mike,

 Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be
 King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince!

 The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that
 weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher
 material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of
 exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries
 over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King!

 Carl


 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
 meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Adam and List,

 Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and
 Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara
 that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest :

 Black Beauty (NWA 7034)

 Tissint

 Jbilet Winselwan

 NWA 5000

 NWA 998

 Almahata Sitta

 NWA 4301

 Zag

 Gebel Kamil

 Too many Vestans to list.

 I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion.
 The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject
 to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds.
 Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated,
 ordinary chondrites.  But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of
 paired finds.  So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus
 Antarctics is about even.

 Best regards and happy huntings,

 MikeG

 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 -






 On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:


 It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in
 Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara

 Adam




 - Original Message -
 From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Cc:
 Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica

 Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth
 The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica.
 By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine
 http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html

 Yours,

 Paul H.
 __

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Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - 196 Approvals, NWA, Sahara, Winner South Dakota

[Carl Agee]

Hi Mike,

Winner is definitely a winner. The write-up does not mention that UNM
and ASU both now have full slices of Winner in their collections.
Beautiful and unusual OC, South Dakota meteorite!

Best regards,

Carl
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Bulletin Watchers,

 196 new approvals.  Most are OC's from the Sahara dense collection
 area.  There are also some NWA's, Nevada, and one find from South
 Dakota (Winner).

 Link to all new approvals -
 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=sfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=1pnt=Normal%20tabledr=page=1

 Link to Winner - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=58292

 Best regards and happy huntings,

 MikeG

 --
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Re: [meteorite-list] First fragment of Chelyabinsk meteorite raised from bottom of Lake Chebarkul

[Carl Agee]

They use dry nitrogen to thaw Antarctic meteorites at NASA JSC. Maybe
that would be worth doing for the truly museum grade pieces -- if
there are any found in the lake.

Carl Agee
*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 The thick mud at the bottom of Lake Chebarkul is surely very oxygen-poor.

 But, the stone will have been completely saturated now, like a sponge.

 So the minute they remove it from the mud, the oxidation will begin
 rapidly, unless they undertake measures to stabilize it.

 Best regards,

 MikeG

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 -



 On 9/24/13, Mark Ford mark.f...@southernscientific.co.uk wrote:
 Yeah Looks like a tiny little fragment?? And way too fresh...



 -Original Message-
 From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
 [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic
 Stone  Ironworks
 Sent: 24 September 2013 15:43
 To: met-list
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] First fragment of Chelyabinsk meteorite raised
 from bottom of Lake Chebarkul

 Shouldn't that fragment be much more rusted if it came from the bottom of
 the lake?

 I've seen ugly fragments on eBay that looked much worse, and they weren't
 sitting at the bottom of a lake for 6 months.

 ???

 Best regards,

 MikeG
 --
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 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest -
 http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 -



 On 9/24/13, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote:
 The first specimen was raised from the bottom of Lake Chebarkul this
 morning:

 http://kp.ua/daily/240913/415052/

 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=desl=rutl=enu=http%3A%2F%2Fkp.ua%2Fdaily%2F240913%2F415052%2Fsandbox=1

 More to come...

 Martin



 
 Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern
 und
 endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben.
 http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos


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Re: [meteorite-list] The NWA 6435 name on MetSoc Database = Nightmare

[Carl Agee]

Mendy,
Not to meddle in other people's classifications, but to me the
geochemistry and mineralogy does look like a brachinite and not a
diogenite.
Carl

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:


 Can someone please clarify why this is listed as a Brachinite instead of 
 Diogenite?

 Based on the composition being 90% olivine, should this not be listed as a 
 dunitic diogenite?


 Mendy Ouzillou




 From: Fabien Kuntz wwmeteori...@yahoo.com
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 3:09 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] The NWA 6435 name on MetSoc Database = Nightmare


Hello,



because may of you asked about the statut of NWA 6435 on the Bulletin, here 
is the story (it have been discussed on the list with Norbert Kammel during 
the summer, the 9 jully, remember) :

Maybe Jeff Grossman will explain this a different way (because at this time I 
have not understand all what happened), but I have a brachinite (now is the 
official NWA 5435) was for a time missnamed as NWA 6435 (this was the name I 
recieved from the classifier) !


So during a time, this meteorite had two provisionnal names (NWA 5435 and NWA 
6435, close in look, easy mistake) !

At the same time the NWA 5435 number have been assigned too, to a stone of 
Norbert Kammel, a chondrite (this is what was discussed on the list on early 
july).


The official for my brachinite was choosed as NWA 5435 (it is now OFFICIAL on 
the Bulletin), and the Norbert chondrite was reassigned as NWA 3999...

last year, I submitted to Tony Irving a new stone (working name K091 for 
Kuntz091), after preliminary work on it of Jean-Alix Barrat, and the NWA 6435 
was finally reassigned to this new stone, the unbrecciated diogenite I 
introduced today.


OK for me this is a NIGHTMARE, I just did what I had to did, and now I have 
to writte here a real novel to explain what happen, and collectors possibly 
interesting in slices of this meteorite maybe will be suspicious !

I suppose I have to wait (month, years?) for this mistake was corrected on 
the Bulletin...

Fabien


Fabien Kuntz
Météorites (ventes, expertise, conférences)
Animation scientifique et technique
WWMETEORITES (Siret : 511 850 612 00017)
www.wwmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] The NWA 6435 name on MetSoc Database = Nightmare

[Carl Agee]

Of course I'm referring to NWA 5435 in the MetBull!
No, I agree this is very confusing! Another reason to do away with
Provisonals. There are so many that will never get classified -- a
waste of time in my opinion.

Carl Agee

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Mendy,
 Not to meddle in other people's classifications, but to me the
 geochemistry and mineralogy does look like a brachinite and not a
 diogenite.
 Carl

 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:


 Can someone please clarify why this is listed as a Brachinite instead of 
 Diogenite?

 Based on the composition being 90% olivine, should this not be listed as a 
 dunitic diogenite?


 Mendy Ouzillou




 From: Fabien Kuntz wwmeteori...@yahoo.com
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 3:09 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] The NWA 6435 name on MetSoc Database = Nightmare


Hello,



because may of you asked about the statut of NWA 6435 on the Bulletin, here 
is the story (it have been discussed on the list with Norbert Kammel during 
the summer, the 9 jully, remember) :

Maybe Jeff Grossman will explain this a different way (because at this time 
I have not understand all what happened), but I have a brachinite (now is 
the official NWA 5435) was for a time missnamed as NWA 6435 (this was the 
name I recieved from the classifier) !


So during a time, this meteorite had two provisionnal names (NWA 5435 and 
NWA 6435, close in look, easy mistake) !

At the same time the NWA 5435 number have been assigned too, to a stone of 
Norbert Kammel, a chondrite (this is what was discussed on the list on early 
july).


The official for my brachinite was choosed as NWA 5435 (it is now OFFICIAL 
on the Bulletin), and the Norbert chondrite was reassigned as NWA 3999...

last year, I submitted to Tony Irving a new stone (working name K091 for 
Kuntz091), after preliminary work on it of Jean-Alix Barrat, and the NWA 
6435 was finally reassigned to this new stone, the unbrecciated diogenite I 
introduced today.


OK for me this is a NIGHTMARE, I just did what I had to did, and now I have 
to writte here a real novel to explain what happen, and collectors possibly 
interesting in slices of this meteorite maybe will be suspicious !

I suppose I have to wait (month, years?) for this mistake was corrected on 
the Bulletin...

Fabien


Fabien Kuntz
Météorites (ventes, expertise, conférences)
Animation scientifique et technique
WWMETEORITES (Siret : 511 850 612 00017)
www.wwmeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dunite meteorites?

[Carl Agee]

The brachinite dunite is Northwest Africa 7904.

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:

 Hi Jack,
 But there are dunite meteorites! I just classified a brachinite that is a
 dunite. Also the martian C in SNC is for the dunite Chassigny. Most PACs
 are olivine rich and some are dunites with 90% or more olivine.

 Carl Agee

 On Jul 24, 2013 10:55 AM, jack satkoski jacko...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Wondering why no predominately olivine or dunite meteorites exist?  Does
 this have something to do with proto planet size and crustal evolution?

 Thanks,

 Jack Satkoski
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dunite meteorites?

[Carl Agee]

Hi Mendy,

If you look at the literature, there are only a handful of brachinite
oxygen data sets, so anomalous may be a poorly defined term. The
brachinite trend could actually intersect or cross-over the TFL --
perhaps that is what this one is doing. Or, it could be terrestrial
contamination, or as you suggest a exotic component, hard to tell at
this point.

Carl


*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Carl,

 I understand the words, heterogeneous oxygen isotopes but not the meaning.
 Does this imply two different parent bodies merged together? This of course
 doesn't make sense because then it would be considered an anomalous
 achondrite.  I did not think the the O-isotopes were supposed to vary to the
 degree that they can be considered heterogeneous.

 Thanks!

 Mendy Ouzillou

 
 From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
 To: jack satkoski jacko...@yahoo.com
 Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dunite meteorites?

 The brachinite dunite is Northwest Africa 7904.

 *
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:

 Hi Jack,
 But there are dunite meteorites! I just classified a brachinite that is a
 dunite. Also the martian C in SNC is for the dunite Chassigny. Most PACs
 are olivine rich and some are dunites with 90% or more olivine.

 Carl Agee

 On Jul 24, 2013 10:55 AM, jack satkoski jacko...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Wondering why no predominately olivine or dunite meteorites exist?  Does
 this have something to do with proto planet size and crustal evolution?

 Thanks,

 Jack Satkoski
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[meteorite-list] Fwd: Tuesday @ 7pm: Carl Agee on a New Unique Meteorite from Mars

[Carl Agee]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Adrian Brown abr...@seti.org
Date: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:17 PM
Subject: Tuesday @ 7pm: Carl Agee on a New Unique Meteorite from Mars
To: colloqu...@seti.org


Please join us next Tuesday at 7pm for a free public talk at the SETI
Institute Headquarters
at 189 Bernardo Ave, Mountain View.

If you can't be at the SETI Institute in person, the talk will be broadcast
online and live at the
following link:

https://plus.google.com/events/cmoj8vn4osu4g505hd7djho5dbg





Title:Discovery of a New Unique Water-rich Meteorite from Mars
Speaker:   Carl Agee (University of New Mexico)
When:  Tuesday, 12 July 7pm PDT, 2013
Where: Colloquium Room, SETI Headquarters, 189 Bernardo Ave, Mountain
View
Poster:  http://www.seti.org/sites/default/files/csc-July-13.pdf
Live link:  https://plus.google.com/events/cmoj8vn4osu4g505hd7djho5dbg




Abstract:

Northwest Africa (NWA) 7034 is a new type of martian meteorite discovered in
Morocco
in 2011. NWA 7034 aka Black Beauty, nicknamed for its dark shiny
appearance, contains
ten times more water than other martian meteorites. This combined with its
oxidation state
which is highest among martian meteorites, its anomalous oxygen isotope
values, and its
early Amazonian age, make it an extraordinarily valuable specimen for
understanding
surface processes, aqueous alteration, and atmosphere/lithosphere exchange
reactions that
existed on Mars ~2 billion years ago.

Dr. Agee will show that Black Beauty appears to be the first martian
meteorite to match the
surface geochemistry of Mars, as seen by landers and orbiters, and as such,
it has particular
relevance to the current Mars Science Laboratory mission at Gale Crater.




Latest YouTube videos:

Simone Silvestro - Dune migration at the Curiosity Landing Site
Lee Smolin - Emergence of the Laws of Physics
Robert Nesbet - Conformal Gravity and Dark Matter/Energy
Jon Jenkins - The Once and Future Kepler
Robert Henke and Taghi Amarani - Artist in Residence Evening Talks
Niki Parenteau's talk on Cyanobacteria and Photosynthesis is currently
embargoed, we will let you know when it is public!
Max Rudolph - Convection in Ice Satellites
Terrence Deacon - Life before genetics: autogensesis and the outer solar
system
Peter Jenniskens' talk on Chelyabinsk is currently embargoed but we will let
you know when we are able to make it public!
Steve Croft - Tracking Supermassive Black Holes
Claudio Maccone and Stephane Dumas - New Book on Mathematical SETI
Denise Herzing - How can SETI learn from Dolphin Communication?
Michael Russell - Orgins of Life Through Convection and Serpentinization
Jonathan Fortney - Atmosphere of a Typical Exoplanet in Our Galaxy
Margaret Race - Balancing Commercial and Science Space Policy in the Coming
Decade
Karel Schryver - The Sun and Space Weather
Bob Laughlin - A Different Universe
Sarah Burke-Spolaor - On the road to extragalactic transients (this talk
contains embargoed
material and we will let you know when it is publicly released)
Chat Hull - Observations of Star Formation Regions with CARMA
Guy Consolmagno - Adventures of a Vatican Astronomer
Mark Showalter - Discovery of the New Moons of Pluto
Marco Pavone - Robotic exploration of small planetary bodies
Danny Bazo - Robots and Mediated Virtuality
Mary Barsony - Free Floating Planetary Mass Objects
David Blake - CHEMIN and the Curiosity Rover
Steve Carlip - Black Holes Hawking Radiation and Quantum Gravity
Ed Lu - B612 Sentinel Telescope: Finding Asteroids Before They Find Us
Angela Zalucha - Atmospheres of Pluto and Triton




Upcoming talks:


Jul. 16 -- Tamara McDunn (JPL): Atmospheric Polar Warming at Mars
Jul. 23 -- Paul De Carli (SRI): Free Samples from Mars
Jul. 30 -– Oliver White (LPI): “Mapping Io's Surface Topography Using Stereo
Images and Photoclinometry
Aug. 06 -- Olivier Guyon (NAOJ): New tricks to find and study habitable
exoplanets
Aug. 13 -- Will Grundy (Lowell): Distribution, Evolution and Mineralogy of
Volatile Ices on Pluto
Aug. 16 (Friday) -- Tilman Spohn (DLR): Thermal History of Planetary
Objects: From Asteroids to super-Earths, from plate-tectonics to life”
Aug. 20 -- Stephen Warren (UW): Ocean Surfaces on Snowball Earth
Aug. 27 -- Franck Marchis (SETI): Breaking the Seeing Barrier in Planetary
Astronomy
Sep. 03 -- David Des Marais (Ames): Marine Microbial Mats and Our Early
Biosphere
Sep. 10 (EVENING) – John Lewis (UAz): “To The Asteroids – and beyond!”
Sep. 24 -- Mario Juric (LSST): Large Synoptic Survey Telescope: Entering
the Era of Petascale Optical Astronomy
Oct. 01 -- Marvin Weinstein (Stanford): Exploring Complex, High Dimensional
Data for Hidden Structure
Oct. 08 -- Joe Polchinsky (UCSB): Black Holes, Quantum

Re: [meteorite-list] World's Largest Meteorites by Type

[Carl Agee]

The MetBull can be revised or updated with a write-up submitted to the
NomCom, but it requires an individual to take the time to actually do
that work. For example, I revised NWA 7034 to Martian Basaltic Breccia
after my original Achondrite-ung, a year earlier. As far as revising
TKW in the MetBull, a recent example is NWA 6963, which went from 83 g
in the original write-up to now 8 kg.

Carl

*
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:
 And that is the fundamental issue with the list ...

 With some
 meteorites that were found/fell as one mass, the TKW is more or less
 accurate. With others that were not found/fell as one mass, the numbers
 can be WAY off as is the case for Seymchan. The total recovered weight
 can be much higher than what is reported in the  MetBull.

 Mendy Ouzillou



 From: Pict p...@pict.co.uk
To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] World's Largest Meteorites by Type


Where is the 3 tonne Seymchan? Met Bull has mass at 323kg by the way.

Regards,
John


On 13/06/2013 12:22, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:

Seymchan much larger
Pallasite one piece is 3 metric tons alone.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 13, 2013, at 10:20 AM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi List,

 I am putting together a list of the largest known meteorites by type.
 Here is what the list looks like so far.  Can anyone spot any errors
 or suggest any other large specimens of different types?

 Largest Meteorites :

 Largest carbonaceous CM1 - Moapa Valley - 691 g
 Largest iron - Hoba - 60 MT
 Largest chondrite - Jilin - 4 MT
 Largest aubrite - Norton County - 1.1 MT
 Largest Martian meteorite - Zagami - 18 kg
 Largest Lunar meteorite - NWA 5000 / Kalahari 009 - 11.53 kg / 13.5 kg
 Largest pallasite - Fukang - 1 MT (3.5 MT?)
 Largest angrite - D'Orbigny - 16.5 kg
 Largest brachinite - NWA 4882 - 2.89 kg
 Largest mesosiderite - Bondoc? - 888.6 kg
 Largest CH - Acfer 366 - 1456 g
 Largest CR6/Metachondrite - Tafassasset - 30+ kg

 Best regards,

 MikeG

 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 Blog - http://www.galactic-stone.com/blog
 -
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Re: [meteorite-list] Novato update

[Carl Agee]

I'm having a hard time understanding this problem with Novato. Since
when do deposit samples not get analyzed and worked on? Maybe I'm
missing something here but the way I do it, is the sample gets ID-ed
and classified and then if it merits further research that happens
next, in that order. For example, you cannot submit an abstract to
LPSC or MetSoc on an unclassified or provisional meteorite.
Classification is absolutely the first thing that should happen.

Carl Agee
--
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:

 Yes, hunting costs money, lots and lots of it. Ask me, I'm on the other side 
 of the planet right now and western unions as coming in daily. No credit 
 cards accepted where I am:)
 But we have responsibilities. Pay to play, including getting the type 
 specimen properly curated. I am in 100% agreement with the noncom on this one.
 Science must come first.

 Michael Farmer


 Sent from my iPhone

 On May 1, 2013, at 7:38 AM, robert crane rrobb...@msn.com wrote:

  The problem I have is every one should spend their hard earned money in the 
  field looking for these damn things to ease the people that don't leave 
  their driveway.  I'm sorry before u bitch and complain get off your ass and 
  not spend time in Stewart Valley or in Franconia getting DCA crap 
  classified. Work in the field and contribute. Make a contribution to 
  science before u bitch about other people. Hunting ain't free.
 
 
 
  On Apr 30, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net 
  wrote:
 
  One of the stones from this find was lent to the NASA team, with an open 
  mind and naivte perhaps; a situation that definitely shook her by total 
  surprise and dismay, when another finder of another stone offered a 
  perspective.  She wasn't pleased to learn that she may never see it again.
 
  - Original Message - From: Robert Verish bolidecha...@yahoo.com
  To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Novato update
 
 
  Thanks Rob,
  for clearing the air and getting this thread back on track.
  And now that the dust has settled, we're back to my original concern:
 
  Why do we have to wait for just the name to be approved?
 
  Here is the question I am posing to the List, stated another way:
 
  If everyone is in agreement with the Jenniskins arrangement, then why 
  can't the Committee credit UCLA for the type specimen and move forward 
  with approving at least the name Novato (if need be, at least 
  provisionally)? I mean, what is the difference whether the type specimen 
  goes first to UCLA, then goes to NASA, or vice-versa? I mean, for goodness 
  sake, it's NASA we're talking about here.
 
  Why do we have to wait for the results from the consortium before we know 
  the approved name of this meteorite?
  I mean, we didn't even have a consensus classification for Sutter's Mill, 
  but that name still got approved! We didn't have to wait for the results 
  of the consortium, then. Why now?
 
  But before I conclude, allow me to state several things
  FOR THE RECORD:
 
  Contrary to any unfounded assertions that may get printed on this List, 
  there is no problem getting type-specimens from finders to researchers:
 
  There were 8 Sutter's Mill finds donated from finders  property owners.
  The name Sutter's Mill was approved BEFORE a classification could be 
  agreed upon and long before the consortium published their results.
 
  There were 2 Battle Mountain specimens voluntarily donated by finders to 
  researchers. The name Battle Mountain was approved 30 days after the 
  fall. What delay?
 
  Other US falls with no problems getting type-specimens:
  Mifflin, Lorton, Whetstone Mtns, Ash Creek - no delays in name approval.
 
  Finders of the Novato meteorite were making arrangements to submit type 
  specimens to researchers, prior to Jenniskins announcement to the Press 
  that he was submitting the Webber stone as a type specimen. Days after his 
  announcement is when I finally made my Novato find, and at that time I 
  never dreamt we would be having this discussion in 2013. If it becomes 
  necessary, I am prepared (as are other finders) to submit a type specimen 
  to UCLA. But not until we all have been given a proper explanation.
 
  -- Bob V.
 
 
  --- On Mon, 4/29/13, Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com wrote:
 
  From: Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Novato update
  To: Pat Brown scientificlifest...@hotmail.com, Jim Wooddell 
  jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net, Met List 
  meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Date: Monday, April 29, 2013, 8

[meteorite-list] Fwd: Postponement of the 8th International Mars Conference to 2014

[Carl Agee]

As the Sequestration starts to propagate...

Carl Agee


--
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

-- Forwarded message --
From: Pulliam, Joyce N (6050) joyce.n.pull...@jpl.nasa.gov
Date: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 9:40 AM
Subject: Postponement of the 8th International Mars Conference to 2014
To:


Postponement of the 8th International Mars Conference to 2014



The impacts of sequestration on the Federal budget have led to new travel
policies that severely constrain the participation of NASA center employees,
including JPL, and other government employees (e.g., the U. S. Geological
Survey) in scientific conferences, including the planned 8th International
Mars Conference set for July 15-19 on the Caltech campus.  The current
fiscal environment is sufficiently restrictive that we, the organizers of
the conference, have decided to delay the meeting for one year, holding it
instead in June/July of 2014. We sought advice from the MEPAG Executive
Committee, which unanimously concurred with our decision.



We were preparing for a general mailing last Monday when NASA Headquarters
asked us to hold off and consider whether the conference could be hosted
electronically.  This was a reasonable request, given recent success for
several meetings held via electronic media.  However, after consideration,
we felt that this would not work for the 8th International Conference on
Mars.  This series of Mars conferences have at opportune times provided
comprehensive looks at our state of knowledge regarding Mars.  They are, by
design (e.g., broad participation, no parallel sessions, and yes a captive
audience in an academic setting) meant to foster cross-disciplinary
discussion, integration and innovation.



Although it was our strong preference to hold the conference this year, the
meeting in 2014 will include even more results from Mars, including
Curiosity’s further exploration of Gale Crater, as the rover will then be
well into the second year of its primary science mission.  We have no doubt
that Mars will remain in the news in the coming year, given the ongoing
orbital and surface exploration of the planet, and there could be several
focused workshops or conferences in that time; each needs to decide if an
electronic forum is appropriate.  In the meantime, we will work with NASA
over the coming year to obtain its approval for extensive participation by
its researchers, which is vital to the overall success of a conference that
is of the scale of its predecessors.We look forward to a full conference
in June/July 2014 and hope to see you there.



Dan McCleese / Dave Beaty / Rich Zurek

8th International Mars Conference conveners
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[meteorite-list] NWA5400

[Carl Agee]

Hi Pete,

Aubrites and enstatite chondrites also plot on the oxygen isotope
terrestrial fractionation line (TFL) and up to now they are not proven
to be from planets. So being on the TFL doesn't make the meteorite
planetary. But I guess it depends on your definition of planetaries,
I would only put lunars and martians in that category, but not HEDs.
Last time I checked, 4 Vesta the hypothesized HED parent body, was
still an asteroid, not a planet. I see no reason to consider NWA 5400
planetary. On the other hand, if someone did an age-date on it, and
it came up with a crystallization age much more recent than ~4.5 B.Y.,
then things would get interesting. This is because asteroidal
achondrites have ages ~4.5 B.Y., whereas planets tend to have younger
basalts. Likewise, the search for meteorites from Mercury or Venus
should include igneous crystallization ages as part of the proof.

Carl Agee

Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:20 AM,  pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com wrote:
 Since this tracks on the terestial O2 line, can this be concidered a
 planetary meteorite, along
 with the Lunars, Martians, as well as Asteroid 4 vesta?

 Would these be the only 4 planitaries so far or has maybe Mecrury
 checked in with a sample of it's own?

 Pete IMCA 1733
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--


-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
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Re: [meteorite-list] NWA5400

[Carl Agee]

Hi Jodie,

My bias is from a planetary differentiation perspective. The only
known meteorites to sample solar system bodies with long-lived (1 BY)
igneous activity are lunars and martians. The HEDs might be considered
borderline planetaries, since some cumulate eucrites have slightly
younger ages than 4.5 BY, but that may be from metamorphism rather
than primary igneous activity. So, given my bias, I see all the
ancient achondrites as coming from asteroids and the only
planetaries (yet known) are lunar and martian. You see, my bias is
such that I consider the Moon to be in the same category as
terrestrial planets, and that it just happens to orbit the Earth. This
is probably not how astronomers see the the solar system, but just
fine for an igneous petrologist!

Best,

Carl

-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Jodie Reynolds
spacero...@spaceballoon.org wrote:
 Dear Professor Agee,

 The IAU's decision to go all rogue on the definition of a planet,
 dwarf-planet, minor-planet, [iamnotaplanet, iamtooaplanet,
 someplanetnamedstan] doesn't leave me with a warm and fuzzy about
 calling Earth a planet.  Cleared our orbit - I'm not even certain
 that's necessarily the case...

 But then, having spent my formative years haunting Lowell
 Observatory, I've got a dog in that fight and I'm pretty compromised
 intellectually/emotionally on the whole topic.

 I agree that today the IAU defines 4Vesta as a minor planet the
 same as any other asteroid, though it's larger and with more of a
 cleared orbit than Makemake or probably Haumea, both dwarf planets
 per the IAU, and not far behind Ceres.

 I'm not at all confident the IAU won't change their mind tomorrow** and
 turn it into a dwarf planet with the same total lack of regard and
 status as Pluto received.

 --- Jodie

 ** 4Vesta appears to have far more hydrostatic equilibrium than
 dwarf-planet Haumea, and it appears to have cleared its neighborhood more 
 than any
 of the other Small Solar System Bodies excepting Ceres, per Resolution 5A.  
 Resolution 5B would have cleared
 a lot of that up, but 5A was passed and 5B shot down, go figger, and
 now we need to worry about trans-Neptunian dwarf planets that aren't
 planets at all but bear the name 'planet' ;-)





 Monday, March 11, 2013, 7:41:12 AM, you wrote:

 Hi Pete,

 Aubrites and enstatite chondrites also plot on the oxygen isotope
 terrestrial fractionation line (TFL) and up to now they are not proven
 to be from planets. So being on the TFL doesn't make the meteorite
 planetary. But I guess it depends on your definition of planetaries,
 I would only put lunars and martians in that category, but not HEDs.
 Last time I checked, 4 Vesta the hypothesized HED parent body, was
 still an asteroid, not a planet. I see no reason to consider NWA 5400
 planetary. On the other hand, if someone did an age-date on it, and
 it came up with a crystallization age much more recent than ~4.5 B.Y.,
 then things would get interesting. This is because asteroidal
 achondrites have ages ~4.5 B.Y., whereas planets tend to have younger
 basalts. Likewise, the search for meteorites from Mercury or Venus
 should include igneous crystallization ages as part of the proof.

 Carl Agee

 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

 On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:20 AM,
 pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com wrote:
 Since this tracks on the terestial O2 line, can this be concidered a
 planetary meteorite, along
 with the Lunars, Martians, as well as Asteroid 4 vesta?

 Would these be the only 4 planitaries so far or has maybe Mecrury
 checked in with a sample of it's own?

 Pete IMCA 1733
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 --





 --
 Best regards,
  Jodiemailto:spacero...@spaceballoon.org



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Re: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite

[Carl Agee]

Hi Jason,

I don't want to get dragged into a flame war, but I need to set the
record straight about lab analyses that will confirm pairing. The most
reliable analysis for confirming NWA 7034-pairing is electron
microprobe analysis of the major minerals. Although Ar-dating (which
you mention) is nice to have (see Julia Cartwright's noble gas work in
the LPSC 2013 abstracts) this is not the way to prove pairing. Also it
is destructive so you lose precious sample. I assume you have an
electron probe at Berkeley, so that this the way to go. The other
great thing about microprobe is that it is not destructive and plus
you have a thin section or probe mount that can be studied in the
future or you can even sell it to a collector. NWA 7034 is fairly easy
to ID macroscopically if you have a decent sized hand sample (much
more challenging to ID tiny pieces), and the unique clasts are the
concentric spheres that can be seen through the surface patina. These
may actually be gabbroic pebbles from martian soil caught up in the
volcanic/impact breccia. By the way, the black color of Black Beauty
is not from shock, it is from the ubiquitous fine-grained magnetite
which is the third most abundant mineral in NWA 7034, behind feldspar
and pyroxene.

Carl Agee


-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 4:59 AM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote:
 Martin, Adam,

 Unless you've analyzed every single fragment of NWA  (4880, or
 whatever else) that you've sold, you or someone else is guilty of
 self-pairing without analytical data.  Having one stone analyzed
 doesn't do any good.  I've seen slices from the official NWA 7034
 stone, and several complete pairings.  If I were the dealer who had
 had the stone analyzed, I would be able to self-pair the fragments and
 no one would care.  If I'd donated a few grams, you wouldn't be
 jumping on my back.  And the other ten or so fragments would be
 untested and fine by your standards, regardless of what they looked
 like.

 So...this isn't about authenticity.  It's about getting me to donate a
 few of the ten grams I had to science.  Which, normally, I would say
 is a worthy goal.  In this case, it still is.  Probably more-so due to
 the 'special-ness' of the material.  But, other dealers raised the
 price to the point that buying even ten grams from Morocco stretched
 my budget, so...I'd prefer to sell material for half of what other
 folks are offering it for, which in turn makes it easier for me to
 break even and keep some.

 Part of the issue I have with these threads is that you don't seem to
 give a darn about the science.  You're just attacking *me.*

 Some of the folks at Berkeley wanted to run a sample for their
 research.  A smaller fragment works for their purposes (argon dating
 or for atmospheric data, I'm not sure).  So, you can rest assured that
 this material will be analytically confirmed soon enough.  It doesn't
 take 20% to do that.

 --

 Adam.  I would point out that we purchased NWA 3200 from you as a
 pairing to Tafrawet [NWA 860].  The pattern looked different, so we
 bought all of the still-available slices on ebay and gave some to
 UCLA.  New iron.  We tried messaging the other buyers about it, but
 only one ever responded.  Don't know if the other buyers ever figured
 it out.

 And someone else reminded me off-list of some slices of NWA 869 sold
 back in the day as a new meteorite.  The disgruntled buyers only
 realized it later, having paid more for their new...apparent pairing.
 Not that folks aren't still analyzing pieces of NWA 869 -- not to
 mention selling other meteorites as paired stones.  But, no seasoned
 dealer would make such a rookie mistake, right?  It's easy to
 self-pair such easily recognizable stones, despite never having sent
 one in for analysis.

 Which reminds me: none of this is new.

 http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg24653.html

 http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg24503.html

 To which I'll say the following.  The NWA 7034-paired material I have
 came from the same area and from the same source as did much of the
 other pairings.  My source traveled directly to the find site to
 obtain it.  That, paired with its appearance, is good enough for me.
 You used the same argument for your NWA 1110/1068 pairings several
 years ago.

 --

 Jason



 On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Martin Altmann
 altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote:
 Hi Jason,

 Uff, slowly you seem to understand, what others smarter than we both got
 already from the 1st posting on.

 I say:

 - Your material has a different status than NWA 2975 and NWA 7034,
 especially a lower collector's (and therefore monetary)
   value.

 - You

Re: [meteorite-list] my response to an approach by a journalist

[Carl Agee]

Bob,

Good points! Ideally we should engage the press and tell our story.
One publication that I interviewed with recently really impressed me,
because they had a fact-checker who called me up about a week after
the interview. She literally went through the interview question by
question asking me is this what your answer was? And so I was given
the chance to make what I said as accurate as possible.  So, one
option is to request or ask if there will be a fact checker before the
article is published.

The other thing that is important is to have a good relationship with
local media, because their stories can get picked up by worldwide wire
services. Here in Albuquerque, I know two really good newspaper
reporters who write great stories and get front page coverage, and we
have one TV channel that is really good with in depth science/space
reporting.

On the other hand, when NWA 7034 (Black Beauty) was published in
Science in January, I probably did two dozen impromptu phone
interviews that week, and not one of the stories came out distorted or
false.

Interestingly, the only story that seemed to have an agenda was that
one in the NYT a few years ago on Gebel Kamil - which by the way, did
not use a fact-checker. But I was not misquoted in the story, so I
can't complain about that, I think a lot of the negative actually came
from one of the other individuals who was interviewed -- which of
course the reporter used in the article.

Carl Agee

--
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Bob King nightsk...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi everyone,
 As a journalist (I'm a newspaper photographer) and someone who works
 with journalists every day I have a few thoughts on this topic. In
 newsrooms and TV stations across the U.S. the number of reporters is
 dwindling. The few left are asked to do stories well outside their
 areas of expertise, and although many try to get it right, they
 unfortunately lack the background and often the time to provide the
 depth needed to satisfy a particular interest group. That should still
 not be an excuse. I do know this - reporters hate being wrong. The
 last thing they want to see is a fact in their story in the
 corrections column in the next day's paper. The better reporters
 will call the subject back during the writing of or after they've
 written the story but before publication to verify they've got it
 right.

 My suggestions:
 1. Carefully frame what you want to say so a reporter fully
 understands the essence of the story.
 2. Respectfully suggest to the reporter to call you back anytime with
 questions or for verification of details.
 3. If the story is factually wrong when published, call or e-mail the
 reporter and request a correction. If you get flack, ask to speak to
 his or her editor.
 4. If #3 doesn't work, write a letter to the editor.
 5. Remember that in the end you don't control the story. The reporter
 will be talking to other experts (we hope!) in your field of interest
 and blending in different points of view. Again, a good reporter
 should call you back when there's a big discrepancy between what you
 say and the other subject's point of view.

 Thanks,
 Bob




 On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 7:19 AM,  jim_brady...@o2.co.uk wrote:
 I run an ad in Ireland thats been up for a couple of years now and I
 was approached by a journo who wanted to talk to me and maybe do a
 piece.I googled him and saw his work and immediately knew I wanted
 nothing to do with him or his article.You can see my response to him
 about halfway down the comments on my ad.His name was Samuel Hamilton.

 http://http://www.adverts.ie/crazy-random-stuff/meteorites-for-
 sale/400040

 there are fair and reasonable journalists out there who are interested
 in the truth about meteorites no doubt.Just be careful and do a bit of
 research first would be my suggestion.

 all the best from Ireland
 Jim


 http://www.emeraldislemeteorites.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteoroid/Asteroid Electro-Magnetic Disruption and Charge Properties?

[Carl Agee]

Hi Chris,

Do you have any references you could point me to for how break-up
scales with size-mass-physical properties etc. of meteoroids. I am
interested in knowing the sweet-spot for yielding meteorites on the
ground. In other words, when is a meteoroid too small or too big to
produce significant large pieces of surviving material? It seems like
Chelyabinsk is outside the sweet spot as it apparently produced mostly
fragments even though it had large mass. On the other hand much bigger
masses may also survive. Is it bimodal?

Thanks,

Carl Agee


-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu wrote:
 A body larger than about a centimeter transfers its kinetic energy to other
 forms primarily by compressing the air in front of it as it descends into
 the atmosphere. The pressure involved is typically very large- tens or
 hundreds of megapascals for meter-class bodies. Once this ram pressure
 exceeds the material strength of the body, it breaks apart (presumably along
 existing fault lines, so the material properties of the body are important-
 and generally unknown).

 Before the breakup, the heat created by compressing air is melting the
 surface of the meteoroid, resulting in ablation. This ablation is
 responsible for some of the light we see (along with atmospheric ionization
 from the same heat source), but is not particularly disruptive to the
 meteoroid. Only the outer surface is affected. Ablation is a very efficient
 way of removing energy (which is why spacecraft heat shields prior to the
 shuttles were ablative). When the meteoroid fragments at hypersonic speeds,
 however, additional surface area is instantly exposed, resulting in a rapid
 heating of the surrounding air (which is just a fancy way of saying
 explosion). If a body breaks into just a few pieces, as is common, we may
 see a central or terminal brightening. If it completely shatters into
 thousands of pieces (as seems likely with Chelyabinsk) the energy from the
 suddenly heated air is immense- an efficient conversion of kinetic energy to
 thermal energy. The expanding hot air can produce an impressive sonic wave,
 and probably further disrupts the meteoroid itself.

 I don't that there are any electrical forces of a significant size to affect
 the structure or motion of the meteoroid, although atmospheric electrical
 effects probably occur (e.g. electrophonics).

 Chris

 ***
 Chris L Peterson
 Cloudbait Observatory
 http://www.cloudbait.com

 On 2/26/2013 11:59 PM, drtanuki wrote:

 Dear List,
 If there is anyone willing to discuss the how and why meteoroids/asteroids
 detonate please explain for the list and myself.  I am interested learning
 more about the electrical/mechanical/physical forces that these bodies
 undergo as they reach the earth such as in the latest Russian event. Thank
 you.
 Dirk Ross...Tokyo


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Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - 369 ANSMET 36(1) approvals and changes.

[Carl Agee]

The ANSMET yield is Interesting from a statistical perspective. If
anyone thinks NWA is not high-graded in Morocco, then think again!
Makes you spoiled, darn! just Howardite -- I had hoped it was a Lunar
Breccia or yet another pyroxene-phyric shergottite! LOL

Carl Agee
--
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Bulletin Watchers,

 Lots of new ANSMET approvals in the Bulletin today -


 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=sfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=1pnt=Normal%20tabledr=page=1

 Tons of OC's, but also many achondrites and interesting stones in the
 mix.  Some detailed write-ups and lots of good photos.   :)

 Best regards,

 MikeG

 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
 -
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Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Black Beauty

[Carl Agee]

Hi Mendy,

No, cutting in distilled water has no effect on the oxygen isotopes of
the bulk rock, nor does it affect the hydrogen isotopes of the martian
water in NWA 7034. Simply drying the slice after cutting is all you
need to do. Remember, this is a desert meteorite, exposing it to
distilled water for a few minutes at room temperature in a saw is
nothing compared to many years of exposure to the elements in the
Sahara. Nonetheless, NWA 7034 is relatively unweathered meteorite, it
is amazingly hard and solid, tough to chip or break. I attribute this
to its welding during volcanoclastic eruption and/or impact. The only
weathering products we have identified in NWA 7034 are some fine
calcite veins that can be traced back to the surface. These are found
primarily in the outer edges, and are less common the deeper you go
into the 320 g main mass. On the other hand, we are planning to break
some material from the deep interior, without water, to search for any
water soluble minerals that may be affected by water cutting. Lots of
work still to do! -- mainly because every slice Black Beauty shows
something new.  In my opinion, this rock is actually a volcanic
conglomerate, that has picked up pebbles and soil particles during its
flow over the martian surface or during impact. So, in a way each new
piece of Black Beauty may reveal something more about Mars. I'll stop
there, as you can see asking me about NWA 7034 is dangerous --
especially if you are not ready for a lengthy reply!

Carl Agee

-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Carl,

 I'm curious. Would cutting the stone in distilled water affect the oxygen 
 isotope ratios? If I remember correctly that was one indicator that was used 
 as proof of water on Mars.

 Thank you!

 Mendy

 On Feb 13, 2013, at 11:37 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello Carl,
 On the contrary, the only reason I included the statement regarding
 ethylene glycol was because I was informed by a customer that at least
 some of the material on the market had been cut with synthetic
 lubricant.  S/he made a point of purchasing specimens that had not
 been 'messed with' after making inquiries.

 And, yes, that statement applies.  Perhaps not to the material from
 the 320 gram stone, but the vast majority of the material I have seen
 for sale has come from other sources.

 I've only seen a few grams of slices from Mr. Piatek's stone, but it
 does not surprise me that you would have curated it well.

 Though I will say that it was a bit steep.

 Regards,
 Jason

 On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Hi Jason,

 I looked at your link. I think you need to revise it since it contains
 false information about the cutting of Black Beauty (NWA 7034) -- at
 least if you are referring to the 320 g main mass that is at the IOM?
 The cutting was done with distilled water -- NOT ethylene glycol
 (antifreeze). Also, stating in your link that our samples were messed
 with seems to be a rather unusual way to describe cutting with a fine
 diamond wire.

 If you want to know anything specific about Black Beauty, I would be
 happy to talk to you about it and how to identify it in hand sample
 and nature of the reduced carbon -- my team has been studying this
 meteorite with numerous lab techniques since August 2011.

 PS: the Science Article print version will be on newsstands Feb. 15.

 Carl Agee

 --
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

 On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 3:24 AM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello All,
 I just finished the page for some fragments of the unique water and
 soil-bearing Martian regolith breccia paired with NWA 7034 and a few
 other stones.
 Please see our website for available specimens.

 http://www.fallsandfinds.com/page88.php

 Thanks!
 Jason

 IMCA 7630
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Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Black Beauty

[Carl Agee]

Hi Jason,

I wasn't aware that there were slices of Black Beauty cut by anyone
other than Matt Morgan or myself. We both used distilled water.

As you can imagine, I am much more interested in Black Beauty science
than the business end -- I'll let others worry about the market value.
What's that slogan again in the VISA ads?

Best,

Carl Agee

-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/



On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:37 AM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello Carl,
 On the contrary, the only reason I included the statement regarding
 ethylene glycol was because I was informed by a customer that at least
 some of the material on the market had been cut with synthetic
 lubricant.  S/he made a point of purchasing specimens that had not
 been 'messed with' after making inquiries.

 And, yes, that statement applies.  Perhaps not to the material from
 the 320 gram stone, but the vast majority of the material I have seen
 for sale has come from other sources.

 I've only seen a few grams of slices from Mr. Piatek's stone, but it
 does not surprise me that you would have curated it well.

 Though I will say that it was a bit steep.

 Regards,
 Jason

 On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Hi Jason,

 I looked at your link. I think you need to revise it since it contains
 false information about the cutting of Black Beauty (NWA 7034) -- at
 least if you are referring to the 320 g main mass that is at the IOM?
 The cutting was done with distilled water -- NOT ethylene glycol
 (antifreeze). Also, stating in your link that our samples were messed
 with seems to be a rather unusual way to describe cutting with a fine
 diamond wire.

 If you want to know anything specific about Black Beauty, I would be
 happy to talk to you about it and how to identify it in hand sample
 and nature of the reduced carbon -- my team has been studying this
 meteorite with numerous lab techniques since August 2011.

 PS: the Science Article print version will be on newsstands Feb. 15.

 Carl Agee

 --
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

 On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 3:24 AM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello All,
 I just finished the page for some fragments of the unique water and
 soil-bearing Martian regolith breccia paired with NWA 7034 and a few
 other stones.
 Please see our website for available specimens.

 http://www.fallsandfinds.com/page88.php

 Thanks!
 Jason

 IMCA 7630
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Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Black Beauty

[Carl Agee]

I agree, in fact I have done numerous break/chip/cleave on BB,
especially for the destructive analyses for isotopes. But the flat
surfaces from saw cuts, ground and polished, are needed for microprobe
and SEM.

Carl Agee


-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Galactic Stone  Ironworks
meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote:
 A sterile set of manual tools works wonders - good old fashioned
 cleave/break/chip.  :)

 --
 -
 Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
 Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
 Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
 Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
 RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
 -


 On 2/14/13, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Hi Mendy,

 No, cutting in distilled water has no effect on the oxygen isotopes of
 the bulk rock, nor does it affect the hydrogen isotopes of the martian
 water in NWA 7034. Simply drying the slice after cutting is all you
 need to do. Remember, this is a desert meteorite, exposing it to
 distilled water for a few minutes at room temperature in a saw is
 nothing compared to many years of exposure to the elements in the
 Sahara. Nonetheless, NWA 7034 is relatively unweathered meteorite, it
 is amazingly hard and solid, tough to chip or break. I attribute this
 to its welding during volcanoclastic eruption and/or impact. The only
 weathering products we have identified in NWA 7034 are some fine
 calcite veins that can be traced back to the surface. These are found
 primarily in the outer edges, and are less common the deeper you go
 into the 320 g main mass. On the other hand, we are planning to break
 some material from the deep interior, without water, to search for any
 water soluble minerals that may be affected by water cutting. Lots of
 work still to do! -- mainly because every slice Black Beauty shows
 something new.  In my opinion, this rock is actually a volcanic
 conglomerate, that has picked up pebbles and soil particles during its
 flow over the martian surface or during impact. So, in a way each new
 piece of Black Beauty may reveal something more about Mars. I'll stop
 there, as you can see asking me about NWA 7034 is dangerous --
 especially if you are not ready for a lengthy reply!

 Carl Agee

 --
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


 On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Carl,

 I'm curious. Would cutting the stone in distilled water affect the oxygen
 isotope ratios? If I remember correctly that was one indicator that was
 used as proof of water on Mars.

 Thank you!

 Mendy

 On Feb 13, 2013, at 11:37 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello Carl,
 On the contrary, the only reason I included the statement regarding
 ethylene glycol was because I was informed by a customer that at least
 some of the material on the market had been cut with synthetic
 lubricant.  S/he made a point of purchasing specimens that had not
 been 'messed with' after making inquiries.

 And, yes, that statement applies.  Perhaps not to the material from
 the 320 gram stone, but the vast majority of the material I have seen
 for sale has come from other sources.

 I've only seen a few grams of slices from Mr. Piatek's stone, but it
 does not surprise me that you would have curated it well.

 Though I will say that it was a bit steep.

 Regards,
 Jason

 On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote:
 Hi Jason,

 I looked at your link. I think you need to revise it since it contains
 false information about the cutting of Black Beauty (NWA 7034) -- at
 least if you are referring to the 320 g main mass that is at the IOM?
 The cutting was done with distilled water -- NOT ethylene glycol
 (antifreeze). Also, stating in your link that our samples were messed
 with seems to be a rather unusual way to describe cutting with a fine
 diamond wire.

 If you want to know anything specific about Black Beauty, I would be
 happy to talk to you about it and how to identify it in hand sample
 and nature of the reduced carbon -- my team has been studying this
 meteorite with numerous lab techniques since August 2011.

 PS: the Science Article print version will be on newsstands Feb. 15.

 Carl Agee

 --
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel

Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Black Beauty

[Carl Agee]

Hi Jason,

I looked at your link. I think you need to revise it since it contains
false information about the cutting of Black Beauty (NWA 7034) -- at
least if you are referring to the 320 g main mass that is at the IOM?
The cutting was done with distilled water -- NOT ethylene glycol
(antifreeze). Also, stating in your link that our samples were messed
with seems to be a rather unusual way to describe cutting with a fine
diamond wire.

If you want to know anything specific about Black Beauty, I would be
happy to talk to you about it and how to identify it in hand sample
and nature of the reduced carbon -- my team has been studying this
meteorite with numerous lab techniques since August 2011.

PS: the Science Article print version will be on newsstands Feb. 15.

Carl Agee

--
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 3:24 AM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello All,
 I just finished the page for some fragments of the unique water and
 soil-bearing Martian regolith breccia paired with NWA 7034 and a few
 other stones.
 Please see our website for available specimens.

 http://www.fallsandfinds.com/page88.php

 Thanks!
 Jason

 IMCA 7630
 __

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Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034

[Carl Agee]

Hi Jeff,

Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is
not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent
bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and
won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better.
So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge
of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different
parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that
were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't
hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's
most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same
is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are
already doing this based on rover data, the term Gusev basalt is one
example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of
diversity of Mars' unique geology.

Carl Agee

-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

-- Forwarded message --
From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Cc:
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite
group names.  First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C
chondrites came from.  We can't point to a single asteroid as the
source for any of them, let alone all of them.  So the group names are
still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos.  Second, the
only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by
their group names.  They can't be described with standard rock
nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison.

I didn't say Martian meteorite names were not useful.  I said they
were archaic, historical artifacts.

Jeff

On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote:

Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there:

I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they
are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous
petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from
another.  So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or
“blackbeauty-ite”,  or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick,
we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali
basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc.  For
example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing
comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001.  When you say orthopyroxenite
maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian
types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous
chondrite groups  like CI, CM, CV, etc. and just call them all
carbonaceous chondrites, that of course have a wide range of
compositions, textures, mineralogies etc.? Meteoritics isn’t the only
science that has colorful nomenclature. Mineralogists still like to
name new minerals after famous mineralogists, instead of just naming
them by their chemical composition or crystal structure.

Carl Agee
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Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034

[Carl Agee]

Alan,

Very good point, but now because of the appearance of NWA 7034 the
waning usefulness of distinct martian types is actually reversed and
becomes more relevant. In the past few years we have seen so many new
shergottite finds, but they are all more or less the same rocks as in
the collections, so nothing really new, and we all thought
SNC=martian meterorite.  NWA 7034 is quite different, it is not just
another SNC, it is showing us that the SNCs are probably a small
biased sampling of Mars -- but we already knew that from rover and
orbiter data. So now it is useful to say SNC+NWA7034=martian
meteorite, and make the statement that no, this is not just another
shergottite, only brecciated.

Carl

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu wrote:
 The bottom line in all of this is that meteorite group names will last only
 as long as they're useful.  The literature of the past is littered with
 group names such as grahamites and others I've forgotten because they fell
 out of use.  Similarly, the term SNC is not used much these days although
 the individual group names survive.  If scientisits no longer find it useful
 to use the term shergottite, then it will gradually fall out of use.  If
 folks invent new names and no one uses them, then it doesn't really matter.
 An interesting analogy is that there are some unpopular models for chondrule
 formation, for example, (say gamma-ray bursts) that no one uses and thus
 don't pollute the literature.
 Alan


 Alan Rubin
 Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
 University of California
 3845 Slichter Hall
 603 Charles Young Dr. E
 Los Angeles, CA  90095-1567
 phone: 310-825-3202
 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu
 website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html


 - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
 To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:20 AM

 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034


 Hi Jeff,

 Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is
 not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent
 bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and
 won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better.
 So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge
 of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different
 parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that
 were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't
 hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's
 most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same
 is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are
 already doing this based on rover data, the term Gusev basalt is one
 example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of
 diversity of Mars' unique geology.

 Carl Agee

 --
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Cc:
 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
 There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite
 group names.  First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C
 chondrites came from.  We can't point to a single asteroid as the
 source for any of them, let alone all of them.  So the group names are
 still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos.  Second, the
 only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by
 their group names.  They can't be described with standard rock
 nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison.

 I didn't say Martian meteorite names were not useful.  I said they
 were archaic, historical artifacts.

 Jeff

 On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote:

Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there:

I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they
are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous
petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from
another.  So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or
“blackbeauty-ite”,  or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick,
we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali
basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc.  For
example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing
comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001.  When you say orthopyroxenite
maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian
types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous
chondrite

Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034

[Carl Agee]

Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there:

I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they
are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous
petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from
another.  So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or
“blackbeauty-ite”,  or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick,
we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali
basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc.  For
example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing
comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001.  When you say orthopyroxenite
maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian
types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous
chondrite groups  like CI, CM, CV, etc. and just call them all
carbonaceous chondrites, that of course have a wide range of
compositions, textures, mineralogies etc.? Meteoritics isn’t the only
science that has colorful nomenclature. Mineralogists still like to
name new minerals after famous mineralogists, instead of just naming
them by their chemical composition or crystal structure.

Carl Agee


-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

--

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:27:06 -0500
From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: 51043c1a.9040...@gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Meteorite group names are not invented by NomCom, and certainly not by
NASA.  The come from usage in the scientific literature.

I think we have to remember why names like shergottite and nakhlite came
into being.  Scientists like to group similar things to help bring order
to chaos.  When you know next to nothing, you start by putting similar
things together that you can study as a group.  Once you learn more,
relationships may be found among them.  In this case, several groups
plus a few oddballs seem to share a common origin: Mars.  At this point,
it doesn't really help anything to continue to generate trivial names
for new groupings.  The big advance has been made, and we can call them
Martian meteorites.  That means it is time to start treating all of
these meteorites like we do geological specimens on Earth, using
standard kinds of lithologic names.  I know the old trivial names will
die hard, and a term like shergottite will be with us for a long time.
But there is no good reason to continue creating new trivial names.  ALH
84001 need only be called a Martian pyroxenite (assuming this is the
best rock name for it).  If 10 more of these are found, they only need
to be called Martian pyroxenites; there is no need to define a useless
new term like allanhillsites.  The same goes for NWA 7034, which we
can call a Martian alkali-rich basalt, or whatever Carl says it is.

Note that nomenclature for lunar meteorites was never burdened with
trivial names, as there were no famous historical falls or finds.  After
30 years, lunar anorthosite meteorites are still just called lunar
anorthosites.  Scientists don't need to put them in a trival category
like calcalongites to distinguish them from the basaltic
kalahariites... this would only obscure what we know about all of
these, and nobody will ever do it.

So let's forget about inventing terms like saharanite or morrocanite or
allanhillsite or whatever.  (And while we're at it, let's consider
forgetting about shergottite, chassignite and nakhlite.)  They're
unnecessary and useless to science.
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Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034

[Carl Agee]

Jeff,

Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people
do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new
Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic
measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new
name based on locality: I propose saharaite. So we now have the
meteorites from Mars or SCANS

S: shergottite
C: chassignite
A: ALH 84001
N: nakhlite
S: saharaite

Enjoy!

Carl Agee


--
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


---
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500
From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: 5102a808.5040...@gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite.

SNCPB?

If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS?

Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian
meteorites?

Jeff

On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote:
 Hi Paul,
 I like the SNCB. It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay
 tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB.
 Regards, Fred H.

 How shall we organize the new class of Martian?

 Until now it has been SNC

 How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ?

 SNCB

 What say you all?

 -Paul Gessler
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Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034

[Carl Agee]

Hi Greg,

The NWA 7034 main mass is the original ~320g single stone Black
Beauty that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while
I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few
months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two
additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g.
So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is
geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same
meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you
are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg.
When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in
MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to
have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly
pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in
hand sample and geochemically.

By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science
paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a
match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic
ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid
in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter
~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty
on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed.

 Thanks,

Carl Agee

-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net wrote:
 Hi Carl,

 It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching
 on some SNACS...

 Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how
 many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones
 making the current stone count at about a dozen or so IF they are indeed
 paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered
 from Moroccan dealers as pairings.

 If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first
 NWA 7034 one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases
 part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of
 the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers?
 Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g
 stone, has this been confirmed yet?

 The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing
 in at 84 grams.

 If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan
 dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool
 for such a unique meteorite!

 Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to
 light!

 Best Regards,
 Greg

 
 Greg Hupé
 The Hupé Collection
 gmh...@centurylink.net
 www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog  Reference Site)
 www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site)
 NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest  eBay)
 http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault
 http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault
 IMCA 3163
 
 Click here for my current eBay auctions:
 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



 -Original Message- From: Carl Agee
 Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM
 To: meteoritelist meteoritelist

 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034

 Jeff,

 Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people
 do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new
 Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic
 measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new
 name based on locality: I propose saharaite. So we now have the
 meteorites from Mars or SCANS

 S: shergottite
 C: chassignite
 A: ALH 84001
 N: nakhlite
 S: saharaite

 Enjoy!

 Carl Agee


 --
 Carl B. Agee
 Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
 Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
 MSC03 2050
 University of New Mexico
 Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

 Tel: (505) 750-7172
 Fax: (505) 277-3577
 Email: a...@unm.edu
 http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


 ---
 Message: 19
 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500
 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Message-ID: 5102a808.5040...@gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

 Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite.

 SNCPB?

 If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS?

 Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian
 meteorites?

 Jeff

 On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote:

 Hi Paul,
 I like the SNCB. It sounds

Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034

[Carl Agee]

Hi Martin,

Here is an excerpt from our noble gas abstract for NWA 7034, Cartwright et al.:

We obtain T3, T21 and T38 ages of 5.1 Ma, 11.4 Ma and 5.4 Ma
respectively. The older T21 age may result from heteorgeniety of
target elements like Ca and Mg within the breccia. T3 has little
dependency on chemical composition (and T38 also less than T21), and
with elevated 4He concenrations, perhaps 3He loss was minimal, and
thus this age real. A CRE age  5 Ma is older than observed previously
for shergottite CRE ages, though the 11.4Ma age is similar to Nakhlite
/ Chassigny CRE ages.

So it's not carved in stone quite yet...

Carl Agee

--
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: a...@unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, karmaka
karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote:
 Thanks a lot for the information, Carl.

 I can't wait to read more in six days.

 Does the CRE-age of ~5 My mean that NWA 7034 probably represents a new
 impact event or could it somehow be related to the shergottites Y793605 and
 Y27 with their ejection age of ~4.70 ± 0.50 My?

 Best regards,

 Martin

 Von: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu
  An: Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net
  Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
  Datum: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:19:34 +0100

 Hi Greg,

  The NWA 7034 main mass is the original ~320g single stone Black
  Beauty that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while
  I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few
  months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two
  additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g.
  So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is
  geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same
  meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you
  are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg.
  When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in
  MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to
  have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly
  pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in
  hand sample and geochemically.

  By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science
  paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a
  match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic
  ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid
  in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter
  ~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty
  on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed.

  Thanks,

  Carl Agee

  --
  Carl B. Agee
  Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
  Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
  MSC03 2050
  University of New Mexico
  Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

  Tel: (505) 750-7172
  Fax: (505) 277-3577
  Email: a...@unm.edu
  http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/


  On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net
 wrote:
   Hi Carl,
  
   It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and
 munching
   on some SNACS...
  
   Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings
 and how
   many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired'
 stones
   making the current stone count at about a dozen or so IF they are
 indeed
   paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones
 offered
   from Moroccan dealers as pairings.
  
   If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the
 first
   NWA 7034 one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press
 releases
   part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the
 weights of
   the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA
 numbers?
   Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first
 320g
   stone, has this been confirmed yet?
  
   The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533
 weighing
   in at 84 grams.
  
   If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by
 Moroccan
   dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty
 cool
   for such a unique meteorite!
  
   Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite
 to
   light!
  
   Best Regards,
   Greg
  
   
   Greg Hupé
   The Hupé Collection
   gmh...@centurylink.net
   www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog  Reference Site)
   www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site)
   NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest  eBay)
   http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault
   http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault
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