Re: [meteorite-list] Enough is Enough, Now NWA 1877
At 11:10 PM 9/12/2004, Mauro Daniel wrote: therefore better that you of it quiet bushels Can anyone interpret this for me? I'm in the process of moving right now and my Captain Super decoder ring is packed away in a box. Best, JKG __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] September 11, 2001
Yesterday, on September 11, 2004, there was a memorial service here in Tempe, Arizona for the victims of the terrorist attacks and the Americansoldiers who have died in Afghanistan and Iraq. The memorial was held at Tempe Town Lakes and included 4,000 standard size flags set up in long rows with each flag representing a fallen American. Each flag had a yellow bow attached to the pole and for those who had died in military service in Afghanistan and Iraq there was a tag hanging on one of the tails of the bow that identified the fallen soldier and also listed the date and place where he had died. It was very sobering to watch hundreds of people quietly moving among the rows after rows of flags lifting the tails of the bows to read the name and brief story written on the tags. The second name tag I looked at was dated September 5, 2004. It made me heart sink to read about this young solder from a little town in the Midwest I never heard of - an American soldier that made the ultimate sacrifice just six days ago. Like Bernd has suggested, take time to remember those who have died and pay them tribute. Best, John Gwilliam At 07:03 AM 9/11/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rhett Bourland's post announcing the unbelievable, the incredible, the incomprehensive ... For those of you who haven't heard yet America has been attacked. This makes the Oklahoma bombing look like child's play. A plane has hit the Pentagon and one plane has hit each of the World Trade Center towers. One of the towers has collapsed. According to some news reports up to three of our commercial planes have been hijacked as well. Rhett Bourland So, folks, before you get back to your daily chores and petty quarrels here on this List or elsewhere, take a moment's time and remember! See also the September 2001 List Archives for a moment of remembrance when we ALL felt like ONE amid this abominable crime against humankind. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 1458.nwa 518 plus freebie
This one confuses me. How can a freebie be a freebie if you have to buy it? Do you mean that the two NWA specimens are $50.00 plus $4.00 shipping and if you buy them you get the other piece for free? That still doesn't make it a freebie. Tell us more about this nwa freebie. What number? What weight? Seems like there is still no free lunch. JKG At 04:35 AM 9/10/2004, Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote: Hello list.To anyone interested.I have 2 pieces plus a freebie if anyone is interested.Nwa 1458 58.2 grams,Nwa 518 17.6 grams,Aand a nwa freebie all for $50.00 plus $4.00 priority shipping.Let me know. steve arnold, chicago = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ ___ Do you Yahoo!? Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos
Are you saying that Mr. Mauro Daniels is really Matteo? Boy, he had me fooled. JKG At 09:12 AM 9/10/2004, Michael Farmer wrote: Mr. Mauro Daniel's (Mr. rocksfromspace) 1.544 piece is the same as Matteo's 1.544 piece from his web page. He is so stupid he brags as if no one could figure it out...I can't post because of AOL html, but would if I couldWhat a moron... web page:http://it.geocities.com/mcomemeteoritecollection/ text: NWA 1110 - Found 2001, Morocco, Africa. Achondrite Shergottite Picritic. Total mass 118 grams. Piece in collection: slice gr.0.25 (461) fragment gr.1.544 from the main 118 grams found (493) Recuperata nel 2001, Marocco, Africa. Achondrite Shergottite Picritic. Massa totale recuperata 118 grammi. Pezzo in collezione: fine pezzo gr.0.25 (461) frammento gr.1.544 (493) - Original Message - From: Mauro Daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos This is the real NWA 1110 why the piece its take from the 118 grams of the mass..the others its only other pieces of this meteorite arrive from moroccan dealers have found this in another timeis not a secret moroccan people sale NWA 1110 in this time e for low price. http://it.geocities.com/meteoriti20002/NWA1110fragmentgr.1.544.JPG From: Comcast Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite list [EMAIL PROTECTED],Bernhard Rems [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:58:08 -0500 Oh please, He would never admit it .. that would mean he would have some market competition. This guy is way to egotistical and hypocritical. Bob Evans - Original Message - From: Bernhard Rems [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:50 PM Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos Adam, but it would be fair to say that it is most probably the same material as NWA 1110, right? Bernhard -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Adam Hupe Gesendet: Donnerstag, 09. September 2004 23:36 An: Comcast Mail Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos Some people will never get it. You do not have NWA 1110! Have a scientist authenticate it and get your own number. - Original Message - From: Comcast Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos Well, Sorry , I didn't realize trying to sell a few Martian meteorites would stir up so much controversy. My apologies to everyone. For those interested you can see better pics of my NWA 1110 at the following link: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/spacerox2001/album?.dir=/adcf.src=ph As far as Adam goes , I know this is all about money to him. Im sure he wanted to be the sole possessor of NWA 1110 , Sorry Adam. my stuff is the same as yours. Care to share some pics? As for those interested, Im selling these on ebay You can search my Seller name maccers531 to find the auctions They end Sunday and Im sure some collectors will read between Hupes emails and get one of these rare specimens for their collection. Thanks, Bob Evans __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Personalizza MSN Messenger con sfondi e fotografie! http://www.ilovemessenger.msn.it/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 1110 issues
I agree with Adam on this one. Technically, anyone with material that is claimed to pair with any of the four different NWA numbers listed could pick anyone of the four numbers. Is it possible that it would be in the best interests of the seller to pick the NWA number that was either selling for the highest price or had the lowest TKW? That's something to think about. But, no matter what the reasoning or motive is, the TKW has now been altered without altering the official records. This reminds me of a situation I saw on Jerry Springer one time. A husband and wife had eight children and the husband suspected that one of them wasn't his. Spring and Co. paid for the DNA work to be done on the child in question and low and behold, the husband ended up being the biological father. When this was announced, the wife boldly stated, there's your proof you worthless $[EMAIL PROTECTED] you have proof that you're the father of all eight kids. In reality, the only kid that was proven to belong to the poor sucker was the one that was tested - all the rest of them could have been fathered by someone else. We have long debated the issues surrounding NWA meteorites and the special problems they bring to the seller's/buyer's market. Why add to the confusion by randomly picking which tested and proven NWA meteorite is the father of the pieces you have in your possession? I originally thought that giving a unique number to every meteorite coming out of NWA was redundant and unnecessary. Now, I see that it might be the only way that correct TKWs can be determined and preserved. Best, John Gwilliam At 10:56 PM 9/8/2004, Adam Hupe wrote: Hi Stan, Just one more time. If these other stones are not accounted for, how can a true TKW be known? NWA 1110 is a very good example. The weight was reported and it was claimed to be paired to NWA 1068. This is more representative of the true TKW rather than picking a number out of a hat and adding weight to it without reporting it. Why not use 1068, 1083 or 1175, all reported pairings of the same stone. To pick the official number that we used in order to certify our pieces is wrong. We did the right thing. We paid the lab expenses, we submitted 20 grams for study and promoted the specimens. Do you think it is proper for anybody else to use NWA 1110 when it is a pairing that we paid all of the expenses for and took the time to do it right? All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 1110 issues Adam, you make an acceptable argument for the stones to be authenticated, but the notion that a new nwa number must be generated and that any more material CANT be considered nwa 1110 just because there was a specific reported weight is laughable. Will it serve the consumer's confidence that they have to navigate through a quagmire of possible pairings to determine the true amount of material avalible on the market before making a purchasing decision. Let the consumer decide if they choose to accept the word of the seller as to the validity of their claimes - dont confuse them further by playing the weight game. i know what the nomcom calls for, but if the nomcom said that all meteorite collectors must wear purple leotards with pink polkadots all day friday i'm pretty sure we would all tell them to go to hell. there comes a point where you have to look out for the best intrest of your customers - not the rules as set by an arbitary organization. at least imho stan From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 1110 issues Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:32:18 -0700 Hi Stan, When it comes to something as important as planetary material I would say getting different numbers is the right thing to do just as long as pairings are mentioned like in the SAU and DAG series. The Dhofar lunar series is a different situation. TKWs are not known and pairings have not yet been established. I did not set the rules, the NomCom did. In my opinion every planetary piece should, especially without crust, be authenticated by and reported to a scientist. New numbers should be assigned and weights recorded. If they are found as fragments, the entire batch should be looked at and reported under one number as is the case of NWA 1110. Something as obvious as falls is a different matter. If a qualified person does not analyz something as important as planetary pieces do you think fragments without crust should be sold by just anybody who thinks they look similar? Will this provide the consumer with confidence that just anybody can call pebble anything they want? Kind Regards, Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday,
Re: [meteorite-list] Letter from Jeff Grossman concerning NWA 1110 and pairings
I'd say that this letter from Jeff clears up any misunderstandings that any of us might have concerning NWA naming/pairing issues. Best, JKG At 11:01 AM 9/9/2004, Adam Hupe wrote: Dear List, Jeff Grossman has been having a hard time posting to the list so I will forward his notes: Adam, My posts seem to be blocked from the meteorite-list, or at least they are disappearing into a black hole. This is what I tried to post twice today. Jeff The official policy of the Meteoritical Society, as determined by its Nomenclature Committee, is that the name NWA 1110 only refers to the material described under that name in Meteoritical Bulletin no. 86, which has a total weight of 118 g. No other material should be called by that name. It is acceptable and routine, however, for people to make statements indicating that various numbered stones may be paired (although I would be cautious about believing such statements unless they appear in the Bulletin or other scientific publications). All new NWA stones, even if apparently paired with something else, must get their own numbers. This is the rule that applies to meteorites collected in areas of dense meteorite concentration, including all of those known as NWA. Note that this is NOT the same rule that applies if you find another piece of Holbrook or Allende... those would inherit the same name unless they could be proven to be separate meteorites. The Committee is considering a new rule that would allow a new NWA stone to be paired with NWA 1110. Under this rule, the new stone would have to be given a provisional NWA number of its own, NWA . It would have to be characterized by an expert, who would have to submit the evidence for pairing to the NomCom. If accepted, and if the type specimen requirement based on the aggregate mass has been satisfied, we would announce that NWA was paired with NWA 1110, thereby increasing the TKW by a certain amount. NWA would become an official synonym for NWA 1110. This rule has not yet been adopted (it was open for public comment in the early summer). jeff __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Recent field Trip / Photos
I really like the story about the big rat and the little rat.
JKG
At 02:34 PM 9/8/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi List, Here`s some pictures of one of the meteorite hunting trips this
summer. While driving to the hunting area I noticed a Kangaroo Rat
hopping across the road so I decided to get a few photos while waiting
for my friends to show up. At that moment the Kangaroo rat ran under my
truck and decided it was a cool place out of the sun. Not wanting to run
this guy over I had to chase him from under my vehicle. Every time I
would try to chase him off the little rat would run around the opposite
side of the truck or tire.This lasted about ten minutes or so. Boy I'm
sure glad there were no other hunters in the area at this time,I must
have looked pretty funny chasing this rat around my truck.The kangaroo
Rat finally ran behind my rear tire and was looking around at me {almost
like he was saying OK what is your next move buddy}. At that moment I
jumped into my truck and pulled forward. I decided to make a circle and
see if I had squished him when I took off. When I turned around to see if
he was OK he was no where in site, but I could see him in my side mirror
still chasing my truck for shade,But the truck was much faster than the
little Rat . We did find a couple of small meteorites after a full day of
searching.Both meteorites were under 20 grams. Special thanks to Geoff
Notkin for the link. Sonny http://www.notkin.net/sonny/red-lake.htm
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Re: [meteorite-list] METEORITE GIVAWAY# 15/PLUS NWA 1553 EUCRITE OFFER
Is this sale going to be a 2 for 1, 3 for 1, 50% 0ff or 70% off sale? With all the different sales you offer, I get a bit confused. Also, what is a double cut? Best, JKG At 06:24 PM 9/1/2004, Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote: Hi and good evening list.I have 6 new meteorites to givaway.I also have a 19 gram double cut of NWA 1553 EUCRITE FORSALE.I have micro's of,SAU 119,NWA 237,NWA 1553 (2),NWA 869,and NWA 869 (0.9) GRAMS.I am asking $250.00 for the NWA 1553 double cut of eucrite.It has alot of fusion crust on the underside.Paypal will work for all these.Let me know what you want. steve arnold, chicago,usa!! = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Beer 'n' meteorites
I'd prefer something domestic. How about an amber ale made with Holbrook? Better yet, if someone is really serious about brewing a batch for the next Tucson Show, I might be willing to donate a small piece of Beer Bottle Pass as an ingredient. And make it cold...very cold. JKG At 09:50 AM 8/28/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can see it now, NWA869-lite commercials about the special ingredients that pass through many hands. Picture the rocks going from a the sands of the desert, to a nomad, to a Moroccan broker, to Dean, to 600 plus list members, to the world, and now to become the feature ingredient in your favorite beer. I'd like it ice cold...maybe from a large regmaglypt in a chilled, but new, 80 kilo Campo. Probably would need a straw. John -- Original message from tracy latimer : -- Does anyone out there brew their own beer? I suspect if someone were to create a 'meteoritenbier', by adding a few flakes of meteorite to the mash, it would quickly become the brew of choice at Tucson. I'd opt for a eucrite or howardite myself, or a few milligrams of Martian or Lunar if I were feeling flush; I suspect an iron or H might have a 'rusty' flavor :-) Rather than eating crumbs of Zagami, make them potable! Something else to do with those unclasified NWAs... Tracy Latimer _ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: UK Woman Hit By A Meteorite?
DOWN BOY...DOWN!!! Quit barking or we'll take you to the vet and get you tutored. ;-) JKG At 04:05 PM 8/17/2004, David Freeman wrote: RUFF, RUFF (wag, wag) Dave F. Notkin wrote: From the article: Neil Bone, director of the meteor division at the British Astronomical Association, said he could not rule out the possibility that the Lowestoft find was genuine . . . He added that the last record of a meteorite causing injury was when a dog was thought to have been killed in Egypt sometime in the last century. Oh no . . . here we go again. Please, don't anyone show this news story to Kevin Kichinka : ) Geoff N. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite givaway, #11
Steve, I like the idea of your meteorite give away program, but, my problem is that I already have a few pieces of Brahin. Would you mind substituting it with a 50 - 100gram slice of Glorieta Mountain or Esquel? Thanks in advance, John Gwilliam At 06:59 AM 7/24/2004, Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote: Hello world.I have another meteorite to givaway.It is virtually a OLIVINE BLOB OF A METEORITE.It is a 56 gram thick slice of BRAHIN.It has very little metal to it, and it will not see my collection at all.I am really disappointed by it.It hardly cost me anything.$4.00 PRIORITY SHIPPING USA,$5.00 WORLDWIDE,will get this piece.IT IS FREE! Who wants it??? steve arnold, chicago,usa!! = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Park Forest Winslow St., Diana Kasco (Homeowner) Letter
At 11:02 AM 7/19/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the longest time I couldn't walk through a parking lot or down a street or sidewalk without picking up rocks, thinking it might be a meteorite. I am better now and almost never pick up rocks anymore. Diana Kasco My name is Eric, I am an addict. I drive thousands of miles and fall up and down mountains just so I can find more rocks to pick up.I dream of THE rock that will make my habit all better. I am in denial. I am an addict with little hope of getting better.Friends and family pray for a cure, I pray for one more rock to pick up. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com Hello Eric and List, Thanks for coming clean with us Eric, it must have taken a lot of courage. I think there are enough people like Eric on the Meteorite List that we could start a 12-Step program for meteorite hunters/collectors. The Arizona Chapter alone would be huge!...;-) Best, JKG __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Park Forest Winslow St., Diana Kasco (Homeowner) Letter
Dear David, I recommend you try a different hobby to take your mind off of rocks. Square dancing might be a nice choice for a person like you. Best, JKG At 12:09 PM 7/19/2004, David Freeman wrote: Hello list; My name is David and I am an addict. I just got back in last night from a 4 day, 2,400 mile trip to Wisconsin and back (to Wyoming) to deliver a thousand pounds of rocks to another addict. So much for working my 12 step program. In the process of returning, I brought some of his rocks from there (400 pounds) and stopped and collected another 500 pounds of Wyoming rocks before I arrived home. Help me, I am sick.Oh, I will have some anorthosite (just like in the moon rocks) to sell or trade very soon (soon as the car gets unloaded. Best, Dave F. John K. Gwilliam wrote: At 11:02 AM 7/19/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the longest time I couldn't walk through a parking lot or down a street or sidewalk without picking up rocks, thinking it might be a meteorite. I am better now and almost never pick up rocks anymore. Diana Kasco My name is Eric, I am an addict. I drive thousands of miles and fall up and down mountains just so I can find more rocks to pick up.I dream of THE rock that will make my habit all better. I am in denial. I am an addict with little hope of getting better.Friends and family pray for a cure, I pray for one more rock to pick up. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com Hello Eric and List, Thanks for coming clean with us Eric, it must have taken a lot of courage. I think there are enough people like Eric on the Meteorite List that we could start a 12-Step program for meteorite hunters/collectors. The Arizona Chapter alone would be huge!...;-) Best, JKG __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] IMCA and New Nevada Meteorite on Ebay
Morning All, Although I have been a long-time member of the meteorite community, I am not a member of the IMCA for several reasons. The current Ebay auctions for a large piece of magnetite claimed to have been found with some sort of Buck Rogers electronic device from three miles away has already given a black eye to the IMCA. As soon as the misrepresentation of this material was discovered, the IMCA leadership should have contacted the seller and requested he put an end to sales until he had legitimate proof that what he was selling was actually meteoritic. The description in the auction is very unprofessional...something that the IMCA should not tolerate. I'll ask the same question I asked several months ago...what exactly does the IMCA do anyway? Here is another one of your members pulling a fast one on the public and we don't hear/see anything being done! Time to clean house folks, JKG At 12:11 PM 7/12/2004, Nicholas Gessler wrote: Hi IMCA members and non-members: Bob has hit the nail on the head! Just what does displaying the IMCA logo mean or guarantee? I have not seen this addressed on the IMCA list, so it looks like he discussion falls here. It seems to me that displaying the IMCA logo should obligate members to GUARANTEE the authenticity of their sales. Perhaps that is all that the IMCA can realistically do. All of us have misidentified meteorites from time to time, amateurs and professional meteoriticists alike. I don't think IMCA should be in the authentication business. Yes, providing information on identifying meteorites is fine, but there are several websites already doing that. At present, the labs are the final arbiters of authenticity. But I am sure there are many on this list who can distinguish most meteorites and meteorwrongs without the help of a lab. When eBay is asking for suggestions of proactive measures to be taken to prevent fraud, in my opinion the best and only way to proceed is to allow the public at large to express their opinions openly to the bidders and the sellers. I know that eBay tries to prevent people from doing this, but free comment is what makes a free market free. I spoke to an eBay representative yesterday, and will continue that discussion... Cheers, Nick __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Nevada Meteorite on Ebay
Looks like magnetite to me. Notice there is no rust on the examples shown in the pictures...not even down in the pits and crevices. Cutting a small window in the specimen and doing a streak test would be more conclusive. JKG At 02:53 PM 7/11/2004, Randy Mils wrote: Search on item # 2255992757 Opinions?? Randy -- http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2737??PS=47575FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Bash Bob Evans Day
Well said Mr. Freeman. Not from Wyoming OR Italy. JKG At 03:09 PM 7/7/2004, David Freeman wrote: Why all the world pick on Wyoming people? We are superior good people, why people who hate us do this to all? Do all us good? BAH to you! ;-) Mauro Daniel wrote: My name is Mauro, or probably some people here is not good to read? Or probably some members here is no good to change mentality on italian persons why for the problems created from a unique member, now all italian persons is under attack. From: Dave Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Bash Bob Evans Day Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 00:42:42 -0700 Matteo, Nice try with the Netsky virus you had sent to me via Yahoo.fr. I was born at nightbut not LAST night. Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Con MSN Hotmail Extra Storage hai fino a 100 MB di Posta! Provalo! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=it-itpage=hotmail/es __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Matteo War on the list
Looks like we have a new Met. List mother to set us all straight and shake a finger at us when we misbehave. Can I borrow the car tonight? JKG At 12:42 PM 7/7/2004, Peanut .. wrote: Hello, I am fairly new to this list and to meteorite collecting in general. I think a list such as this could be very beneficial to new people to the hobby of collecting and dealing in meteorites. Alot of very informative material has come through this list and I'm taking it in like a sponge. THIS IS WHY THE LIST WAS CREATED RIGHT? This endless banter regarding Matteo is ridiculous. I get emails in Italian (No Offense, Matteo, I have nothing against Italians), I waste my time deleting emails of people dogging each other repeatedly, it's such a waste of everyone time. I think Mike Farmer did a good thing by sending the initial warning. This is where it should lie! Judging from the emails I have read thusfar, it seems that [EMAIL PROTECTED] is instigating a fight here and it has to stop. For those who are unaware, Please review the following: General List Policies 1. Posts need to relate -in some way- to meteorites - Current Emails are not longer reflecting this 2. Be courteous and professional at all times - Right, SureNOT 3. Do not post -private messages- or -personal attacks- to the list - Not happening here 4. Please include the 'subject' of the post in the subject box 5. Send emails in text format, not -HTML- 6. Do not send emails with -file attachments- to the list - include a file link - Not happening here 7. Make sure you can back up statements with -facts and references- - Again Not happening here 8. Do not post -major advertisement- emails to the list - include a 'sale' link 9. If you are posting a URL for a sale, include 'SALE' in the subject box Ok, So could we all please just put the stick down (That means, Stop the fight, Matteo) and move on to why we are here in the first place. To talk about METEORITES! Thank You! CJ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fires Threaten Graham Mountain Observatory (Arizona)
In addition to the fire on Mt. Graham, there are five or six other fires currently burning in Arizona. The Willow fire near Payson, (Marv Kitty Killgore's home town) has charred nearly 70,000 acres and is less than 10% contained. Here in Arizona, we're in for a tough fire season this year due to the ongoing drought. To compound the problem, the forests are full of dead trees killed by infestations of bark beetles. How about some of you wet climate folks send us down some rain! Best, John Gwilliam At 08:51 PM 7/5/2004, Paul H wrote: Fire still threatens Arizona observatory Washington Times, DC - http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040705-021707-9766r.htm Phoenix, AZ, Jul. 5 (UPI) -- A stubborn wildfire in southern Arizona remained a threat Monday to the Mount Graham Observatory, considered one of the top astronomy sites in the nation. Two wildfires threatening observatory and houses http://www.10tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1999424 Yours, Paul __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I am broken
You know the drill Matteo...you have to unsubscribe yourself. In parting, I think I can speak for a majority of list members when I say that we have a great deal of affection and respect for European meteorite collectors and dealers - the honest ones, that is. JKG At 03:15 AM 6/23/2004, M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: Sincerely I am tired of this list, for guilt of an idiot like Farmer, many my friendships have been ruined for the fault of this idiot. This list moreover is full of racists against the European collectors and dealers, not to mention what they say of the Italians, above all in the private emails, true Randy Mills, where they do not have courage to send them in public. I go definitively from this list, my friends know where to contact me, while as far as this list I will know to make of a good publicity for who will try to enroll itself. Matteo Ah Farmer, is good for you not put your face here in Italy.the same for the friends of Farmer. And now Unsuscribe me from this racist list! M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ Do you Yahoo!? http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/10/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/efficiency.htmlNew and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rants
Make that three of us. I think everyone should be thanking Mike Farmer for bring this information to light. I haven't seen the proof personally, but I have to believe that Mike wouldn't have made the claims he did without having verifiable and undisputable evidence. Everyone in the meteorite community wants...no, make that demands that all dealers to be fair and honest - after all, wasn't that one of the reasons that the IMCA was formed? It will be interesting to see if the IMCA follows Ebays lead and removes the dishonest dealer/collector from among it's ranks. I'm certain that many list members will be watching the outcome of this issue. Best, John Gwilliam At 07:39 PM 6/22/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Thomas and List, I must say, I am appalled. I agree with Thomas. Personal attacks are one thing, but this amounts to outright fraud, which is something every meteorite collector and dealer shoud be concerned with. Unless we all own or have access to electron microprobes and such equipment (and know how to use them and interpret the results), we are all dependent upon the trustworthy character and reputation of the person from whom we buy or trade meteorites. Best wishes, -Walter http://www.branchmeteorites.comwww.branchmeteorites.com - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Thomas Webb To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rants Marc and list, Mike may get a little too passionate sometimes but I believe he was giving us some important information that we needed to know. When something like this happens the meteorite community should have the knowledge for their protection, whoever the involved individuals are. My best, Thomas Marc D. Fries mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you gents take your fight off-line? This has turned into a spam-stream. Cheers, MDF -- Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/new/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mailCheck it out! -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Taking Offence - A Repost
Bernd, I must say that your display of integrity and your humble apology show what you are really made of. Superlative form. John Gwilliam At 06:22 PM 6/13/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bernd and List, Bernd, you are too modest and unassuming to acknowledge this but you are a class act. As you say, it is sometimes hard to clean up a mess but at least you don't just walk away from one. Hoping to read many more posts from you... -Walter www.branchmeteorites.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 5:26 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Taking Offence - A Repost Hello Gregory and List, I've been sitting here at my computer for quite some time now, brooding, considering, reconsidering, and feeling very uneasy after re-reading this post many times: I once wrote: ... , I am taking offense to your harmful comments and the way you twist other list members' comments. Gregory then responded: And Bernd is about as nonpartisan and imperturbable a member as the list has. Isn't there a line of common decency SOMEWHERE, past which a member deliberately forfeits his own good standing? Sadly, it seems not to be the case. Thanks for the post, Bernd - I'm sure everyone else feels the same way too, but there seems to be a curious reluctance to publicly express it. Well, it is easy to go off but hard to clean up the mess. Were there reasons why I exploded? Yes, there were! Is it a justification to go off on someone like I did? No! I was neither nonpartisan nor imperturbable a few days ago and I blundered when - though by mistake - I sent Gregory's private comment and my response to it to the list. When I told my Pauline (my wife :-) that Gregory wanted an apology, she said without hesitating a second: Whatever he did, you've made a mistake. Yes, I think you should apologize! As you can all see it took some days to sink in but the message finally arrived at the bottom. So, Gregory, please accept my sincere apologies for my having gone over the line of common decency. The only one who dared at least hint at such an uncalled for reaction was Dave Andrews, who wrote at the end of his mail probably said too much already. No, Dave, you didn't! Thank you! I may be one of the major contributors to this List but this doesn't - and above all - shouldn't give me the right to attack and flame list members in such an unqualified manner. Feeling much better now, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] An announcement from Joel Schiff
At 07:27 PM 6/13/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has really been quite a year for Joel. A milestone Birthday. His daugther's wedding. And now a meteorite falls practically in his backyard! What will he do next year???:-) Maybe come to the next Tucson Show? JKG __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Los Angeles 001
List members, I agree 100% with Michael and Randy. Let's show a little class and not try to undercut someone making an offer. We all know the economy is tight and things get even tighter during the summer months. Still, we need to maintain so kind of mutual respect. Is it just me, or has this list been declining in quality over the past few months? Lately, it seems like most of the posts are offers for sale of material and reminders that Ebay auctions are closing soon. The only thing I can add to Randy's comment is that Ebay sellers need to tone it down a bit and not flood the list with repeated offers of the same material. Most folks don't violate this common courtesy, but there are a few who think that if they pound us with reminders of their sales that we will some how change our minds and break down and buy something. I simply start deleting all messages from those people so I don't have to wade through all of the repeat song and dance advertisements. This list has survived for a lot of years and I'm sure it will make a resounding comeback in the near future. Let's not turn it into a cyber garage sale. Best from sunny Arizona, John Gwilliam At 04:29 AM 6/10/2004, Randy Mils wrote: Michael and List Members.. I was appaled when I saw two members jump on Bob's LA001 bandwagon. My first thoughts were - If you had this material for sale, why did you wait until Bob offered his to the list before making yours available? If it had been a new fall or find, then the circumstances would certainly have been different and multiple offers would have been expected. But LA001 has been around for several years. To address the practice of ebay ad posting on this list vs the Yahoo Groups - I would rather see everything posted to one list, this one. I don't want to have to become a member of half a dozen lists concerning meteorites just because each may have their own restrictions. It also makes temporarily unsubscribing more cumbersome with multiple list memberships. The advantage of this list is that it has become all things to all people and I like that. The only exception would be the childish flame wars that sometimes infect the list. My two cents. Randy From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Los Angeles 001 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 23:32:58 -0700 Greetings All, Please hear that this is addressed to a behavior, not to the individuals currently engaged in said behavior. Personally, I am stunned whenever ANYONE jumps on someone else's ad. I grudgingly observe this among callous, competitive, immature inconsiderate dealers doing this to one another. However, even that seems usually to be done by someone specifically at odds at the time with the original advertiser. I know of no one at odds with Bob Verish, yet he has been unable to have a simple sale without two otherwise kind and considerate non-dealers jumping on the tail gate of his wagon, offering alternative examples of the material he has advertised. I don't mean this to be directed at the people doing it - I mean it to be directed to the behavior. Could everyone on the list have SOME consideration for a person offering material? I know it is hard. Many is the time I have wanted to jump right in and say, Hay, everyone, I have the same material at 60% (or less) of that cost! or, Hay, I have one a bit bigger (or smaller), too, but I don't. It is a rude thing to do to the original advertiser. Let's all have a little more consideration for the other guy. At least wait until his/her sale is concluded before offering up our own stuff. Best wishes, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2752??PS=47575Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win a trip to NY __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [Fwd: Re: [meteoritecollectorsassociation] North West Arizona Meteorite Unclassified ?]
Good morning everyone, Consider what might have happened to the little meteorite that eventually received the name Calcalong Creek. If a skilled and curious eye like Bob Haag's hadn't taken a second or third look at this unclassified stone, it would probably be sitting in someone's collection labeled as a Millbillillie. The person who collected it in the field didn't have the skilled eye or the level of curiosity it took to tell the stone was different enough to warrant further investigation. Many meteorite hunters are in the business purely for the money, and many of those possess just enough knowledge about meteorites to decide whether to put the rock they're holding in their hand into their pouch or toss it out. The Franconia area is similar in some ways. While there are some pretty savvy meteorite hunters working in the strewn field, there are many that lack the knowledge to determine if a meteorite in their hand is the same as the ones in their pouch or if it is something different. The correct numbers will be coming out in the near future, but it's very safe to say that there are three or more different meteorites being found in the Franconia area. I could be wrong, but I think when the next Met. Bull. comes out that's what we'll find out. A friend of mine found a meteorite there that was so obviously different that one meteorite expert from California told him it was not even a meteorite. It was almost totally void of any fusion crust and had no rust on it. Most meteorite folks would have walked right past it thinking it was one of the local basaltic rocks. Just my 2 cents worth, John Gwilliam At 08:29 AM 5/11/2004, David Freeman wrote: (forwarded from Yahoo groups meteoritecollectorsassociation list) Dear Mark, Ken, Christian, and List; We have seen this week already, some interesting occurrences in the meteorite community. First we see a known collector buy a suspected meteorite and find out that it probably wasn't a meteorite and now, we have some of the Franconia coming to market and not classified. Or, this is what it appears at the moment. Is there a solution to the situations involving unclassified meteorites? Let the buyer beware is a good way to go but, is there more that could be offered? Heck, one day we may all be offering up unclassified meteorites if we get into a strewnfield of our own and need a few bucks faster than science can produce classifications. How much science COULD be lost by selling these unclassified's before their time? Would it be in order for the IMCA to offer up an opinion for it's members to strive to follow concerning buying and selling unclassified's (excluding common NWA'S*?* ) or is that beyond the scope of meteorites and honesty that we have pledged to uphold? I feed there is a point when the collector/person in purchasing mode needs to do homework, and be very timid at throwing money and encouragement to unclassified's BUT where do we as a society go from here? If one unclassified rarity escapes to the collectors, and has the holy grail in it's innards..what to do then? I think that the issues following unclassified's will live on for a long time and may have no answers. Maybe the sellers and buyers in the unclassified markets could come up with a universally accepted short clause consisting of ...this is supposed to be a meteorite, return if not a meteorite. It is offered as unclassified and unnamed (because it isn't named), and field data will be provided with accords to Long. Lat, ground surface conditions, etc., for future classification, blah, blah, blah. I feel a short four sentence universal disclaimer and agreement to save some science may be a good tool to chew around. I hope I have offered a little food to chew on with out feeding any ducks. I have heard that schooling ducks is wise, but then, I thought ducks were herded and fishes were schooled. Are we open for debating this issue? Dave Freeman Wyoming Meteorite Recovery Team Leader MARK BOSTICK wrote: Hello Christian, If you notice he lives in Kingman, Arizona. I researched him and the meteorites a little last week. They appear to be meteorites from the Franconia strewn field. Maybe not all the regular red-black H Franconia? One of the Franconia hunters has advised him where to hunt, a little on how to sell them and was interested in purchasing a few of them. I think they are just mostly poor photographs. Mark Bostick - Original Message - From: Christian Anger Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteoritecollectorsassociation] North West Arizona Meteorite Unclassified ? Hi members, have a look at the second pic showing the cut face. Looks like NWA 869 (or pairing) to me: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItemcategory=3239item=2242808122rd=1 Does anyone know this guy, since he seems to be new at
Re: [meteorite-list] Franconia Wash Revisited.
Dave, Would you please go into more detail about the issues BLM is addressing? Some of us who have hunted in the Franconia area have heard a few rumors about some problems, but nothing can be traced back to the actual source. Best, John Gwilliam At 07:37 PM 4/27/2004, David Freeman wrote: Dear List, Franconians; I have spoke with local SW Wyoming BLM archaeologist, and recreation specialist and assistant district managerFranconia Wash problems in the past have the BLM up here on guard for any issues regarding new meteorite strewnfields up here. Big picture, guess it is a good thing, small picture, it bites. Yours, Dave Freeman mjwy __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Amgala vs. Zag
Good Morning All, Bernd's second paragraph brings up another issue we all have to deal with, the color temperature of the lighting we use when taking pictures of specimens. The most accurate light to use is natural sunlight with light cloud cover. The clouds are needed to reflect the white light onto your subject while at the same time blocking the blue from the sky. If you are taking pictures on a cloudless day, build yourself a light tent ( a diffuser)out of very thin, translucent white cloth or paper. This eliminates the blue color and give you a perfect white reflection on not only stone meteorites, but on polished iron specimens as well. Fluorescent lights will add a green tint to you pictures, and incandescent bulbs (like standard household bulbs) turn everything yellow/orange. If I must take pictures indoors, which is often the case, I use professional lighting in the 3,200 Kelvin temperature range. This way, the color of my specimens are as consistent as possible. Here is a simple chart of the color temperature of various light sources. Candle - 1,900 K 60-watt Household bulb - 2,800 K Professional lamp - 3,200 K Fluorescent light - 3,700* Sunrise and sunset - 2,000 to 3,500 K Cloudless midday sun - 5,600 K Hazy day - 8,000 K * Fluorescent light color temperature varies according to the age of the lamp, coating, filtering and other factors. If you're using a digital camera that has a white balance feature, learn how to use it and your pictures will come out more color correct. If you're using a 35mm camera with indoor lighting, use tungsten balanced film to get rid of the yellow/orange tint. With a good photo editing program, you can alter the colors of images in your computer to make them match the original specimen pretty closely. Remember though, all computer monitors don't show your images the same as your monitor. A good practice is to include a photo color card and a true white card in some test pictures. Then when it comes time to edit the picture(s) you simply correct the color in the image to match the color cards sitting on your desk. Use the same correction values to correct the color in you pictures without the test cards showing and you have a finished product that looks like the original object. Have a great weekend, John Gwilliam At 07:18 AM 4/16/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello John D., Jeff K., and All, I agree with Jeff's remarks that the crust on Amgalas looks more velvet-like. My cut Amgala slice (8.5 grams) which I got from the Hupes has brownish subangular clasts and dark, chondrule-rich material into which the light-brown clasts seem to be embedded. The dark matrix areas are more dominant and broader in my Amgala slice whereas they look more delicate and vein-like in my Zag pieces. The overall texture of the matrix is coarser in my Amgala than in my Zags and my Zags also have a bluish or grayish hue and, moreover, no light-brown clasts. I am attaching two JPEGs of the two pieces I am comparing with my private mail to John D. AMGZAG-01 was taken in daylight but not in the sun. AMGZAG-02 was taken in the afternoon sun. Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Franconia Area Meteorites
Tracy and List, All of the meteorites found at Gold Basin are not lumped together as just Gold Basin. Here is a short list of some of the meteorites that have come out of the Gold Basin strewn field. Golden Rule Golden Mile White Hills White Elephant Hualapai Wash It would be safe to assume that meteorites found in the Franconia area, other than the original John Wolfe find, are currently being studied and classified. Best, John Gwilliam At 02:17 AM 4/9/2004, tracy latimer wrote: Have other samples of meteorites collected from Franconia Wash been turned in for classification? Does this mean that Franconia will become Franconia(a), to be followed by Franconia(b), Franconia(c), etc.? That's one thing that has puzzled me; with the several different types that have come out of Gold Basin, why are they all still lumped together as just Gold Basin? Several people have said there seem to be at least 2, maybe 3 strewnfields there, or at least it seems to be a big collecting point. There should be enough data there to designate at least a couple of different falls/finds. Tracy Latimer Hi List, John is right, as there are many new chondrite finds in the Franconia area. I along with Mike Miller have been hunting the area for many months, long before it was common knowledge to the meteorite community. We have found many meteorites, but just as important we have found many different types of meteorites. Mike and I have personally submitted for classification over 10 different chondrite types ranging from an LL to an H. And yes we have even found some Iron meteorites! I feel confident in saying this because the Arizona State University has been involved with us in the classification process since the beginning and therefore this is not merely our opinion but also the opinion those at Arizona State University. As many of you know the classification process can take some time but please be patient as these classifications are forthcoming. During the entire time we have hunted this area we have only come across a few grams of Bob Verishs' Franconia meteorite ( fortunately for us we actually had a slice of his Franconia to compare to our finds ) Because of this we can only assume that there is much less Franconia meteorite than there at first seemed to be. That is not to say that there isn't a lot of Franconia, indeed there may be, but maybe not as much as some think. In fact, Bobs Franconia may not even be the most abundant meteorite out there, as we have many large pieces that are NOT like Bobs Franconia. I have heard it said once or twice that this may be another gold basin, let me be the first to say I highly doubt it. First of all it is obviously unique because of the many types of meteorites being found. Jim Kriegh ( one of the original gold basin strewn field finders) upon hunting with us even dubbed it the Meteorite Graveyard as he too found several different types of meteorites. Also in my humble opinion there is not all that much left. This is an area where some of the more skilled hunters can and have gone days without the slightest signal on their detector. Many hunters will tell you there are precious few meteorites still left. To this day we continue to hunt, and even though we don't find much anymore, it is still exiting. Think about it, these are NEW ARIZONA METEORITES! Whether or not they end up being classified as Franconia or any one of the many other provisional names we have chosen, they simply are a unique and rare treasure. Sincerely, Ruben Garcia and Mike Miller __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 months! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialuppgmarket=en-usST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Garmin GPS unit evaluation for meteorite hunting
Rob and List, Thanks for the in comprehensive comparison of the Garmin GPS units. A similar comparison chart is available from REI and is a quick reference to the features, capabilities and limits of each unit. While we're on this subject, would any one like to comment on the different software programs used in conjunction with GPS units? I have both the Garmin MapSource (1: 100,000 scale) and the TOPO! program (1: 24,000 scale) sold under the National Geographic label for individual states. Both programs are easy to use and both have lots of nice features. What I would prefer is a combination of the two so I could have access to all the features in one interface. Anybody have any comments, good or bad, about these programs? BTW, if you do a little shopping around, you can find pretty good deals on the Garmin units. We recently bought two Etrex Legends for $140.00 each and I've found the Vista for under $250.00 Best, John Gwilliam At 04:07 PM 4/7/2004, Matson, Robert wrote: Hi All, Wanted to thank Ron Baalke for posting the link to a Garmin GPS comparison website: http://www.gpsnow.com/gpscmpm.htm For those that haven't checked it out, perhaps my analysis will save you some time as far as the selection of a GPS unit best-suited for meteorite recovery work. First, my requirements: 1. Large # of track points -- at least 2000. For a 1-day trip, and 8 hours of active hunting, I would need 480 track points at 1-minute temporal resolution. So 2000 track points would support trips of up to 4 days without computer access. 2. WAAS accuracy a must. 3. Waypoints (for marking find locations) -- would like at least 500 active at a given time; for multi-day trips at multiple locations, it would be nice to have 1000. 4. PC interface: USB preferred; 9-pin serial acceptable. 5. Battery life: the longer the better 6. Display: the greater the # of pixels, the better Other features which are nice to have, but not critical: 1. Electronic compass 2. 2-way radio with position reporting 3. Detachable or external antenna hookup 13 units are compared at this site, three of which (the most expensive ones) are dash-mounted, so that leaves 10. Battery life is only 1.5-5 hours on the Garmin iQue 3600, which is the most expensive of the handheld models. This is because it has a lot of extra bells and whistles (PDA, voice recorder, MP3 player). It also uses a rechargeable lithium-ion battery, which adds to the expense if you need to carry an extra one along. Nice unit, but overkill on features and not optimum for meteorite hunting. That leaves 9 units, which can be separated into two groups -- those with electronic compass and barometric altimeter, and those without: No compass/altimeter: Track Way- Inter- Batt. Approx. Garmin Unit Pnts. Pnts. face Life Pixels Colors Price - - -- - -- -- -- 1. eTrex Legend 1 1000 9-pin 1846080 4-gray $200 2. Rino 120 2048 500 9-pin 1525600 4-gray $250 3. GPSMAP 761 1000 9-pin 1643200 4-gray $300 4. V Deluxe 3000 500 9-pin 2540960 4-gray $400 5. GPSMAP 60C 1 1000 USB3038400 256 $450 With compass altimeter: Track Way- Inter- Batt. Approx. Garmin Unit Pnts. Pnts. face Life Pixels Colors Price - - -- - -- -- -- 6. eTrex Vista 1 1000 9-pin 1246080 4-gray $300 7. Rino 130 2048 500 9-pin 1425600 4-gray $350 8. GPSMAP 76S 1 1000 9-pin 1043200 4-gray $400 9. GPSMAP 60CS 1 1000 USB3038400 256 $500 The compass feature is nice, but I don't think you'd need the altimeter for meteorite hunting. However, if you're planning to use the GPS for backpacking, the altimeter would be a nice feature. Basically you pay an extra $100 for the altimeter/compass option ($50 extra for the GPSMAP 60CS vs. 60C). The V Deluxe has a detachable GPS antenna and includes a MapSource CD-ROM (MapSource North America City Select). Fancy maps are fine for driving navigation or trail hiking, but you'll find they're of little use for wilderness meteorite hunting. The places you're most likely to find meteorites are the very places that tend to be devoid of interesting map features, so if you're only using the GPS for meteorite hunting, I wouldn't spend a lot of extra money on the mapping capabilities. One thing that looks odd in these lists is that the eTrex appears to be a better deal than the GPSMAP 76. It has the same # of track points and waypoints, 4-gray-scale display and 9-pin interface, but the eTrex has slightly MORE pixels and a little longer battery life and yet costs $100 less! The reason for the disparity is a feature I failed to include -- screen size. The GPSMAP 76 has a 52% larger display than the eTrex (it also has an external antenna hookup and more route
Re: [meteorite-list] Agreements with property owners
Maria and List, It's important to remember that private property owners should be treated with respect and that their rules, requests and instructions be followed to the letter. It doesn't take too much for a land owner to get annoyed and close access to his property permanently. Those who have been on the list for a while can remember this topic being discussed a few years back. At that time, an issue was brought to light where a meteorite hunter had left behind some trash on private land resulting in the owner denying any further access to his property. I've been on both sides of the fence with this issue, so I can speak from experience. My family owned two different ranches in Southern Arizona and it was common for folks to want access to our land. Theses weren't meteorite hunters, but rather hunters At 06:53 AM 4/6/2004, Maria Haas wrote: Dear List, In the near future I plan to approach a property owner with a lot of farmland near where I live for permission to hunt meteorites. I have walked other people's fields with permission but have never known what type of agreement to make with a property owner for a meteorite find. I would be more comfortable if I had something in writing before a situation presents itself. I wondered if you would please share your agreements and experiences (good and bad) with property owners as it relates to a find. Any guidance you can provide will help, Maria Haas _ Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 months! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialuppgmarket=en-usST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Agreements with property owners
Maria and List, The best thing to do is first develop a friendly relationship with the land owner. Let them know what your intentions are and also ask if there is anything you can do for them in return. Property owners will always appreciate news of a broken fence, a sick cow, or other things that need his attention. Having been on both sides of the private land issue, here are a few things I'd suggest you do to help build a working relationship with land owners. Leave gates the way you find them - closed gates are a no brainer, but sometimes a gate is left open for a reason. Impact the land as little as possible - pick up your trash and any other you see laying around. If you're using a metal detector, fill in your holes. Don't harass or annoy livestock. Respect any and all rules or requests you are given. Report broken fences, sick animals and anything else you might see that the owner might want to know about. Offer to help fix the broken fence. Ask the property owner if there's anything you can do for them. Just making this offer is a nice gesture. Most land owners won't ask any favors, but if they do, make sure you follow through. Ask if it's okay to bring along other people - some folks don't mind one person on their land but strongly object to groups. How many of you want to share a strewn field with a bunch of people anyway? Drive on established roads. This not only applies to private property, but to public lands as well. Blazing your own roads and driving across undisturbed land is one of the quickest ways to get permanently booted off someone's land. Stay out of restricted areas - if a land owner tells you don't go beyond that sign over yonder , make sure you don't go past the dang sign. Recently, we were hunting in an area that is adjacent to a Wilderness Area. There are some very obvious signs that clearly state no motorized vehicles beyond this point posted along the boundary of the area. In spite of the signs, we saw several places with tire tracks going beyond the signs and in one instance, several donuts spun around the sign. We've heard rumors that the Feds are now considering shutting off access to the area entirely because of this lack of following the rules. Good way to get your fellow meteorite hunters pissed at you Enough said. In my opinion, it is better to offer the land owner a fixed dollar amount to hunt on his property with the understanding that you get to keep what you find. If you find just one or two meteorites then there won't be a problem. But, if you find a new strewn field and a bunch of meteorites, be prepared to renegotiate your deal with the land owner. You probably should have already got your agreement in writing, but if you don't, now is the time to do it. Be fair, be generous and call me and report your GPS coords;-) Best, John Gwilliam At 06:53 AM 4/6/2004, Maria Haas wrote: Dear List, In the near future I plan to approach a property owner with a lot of farmland near where I live for permission to hunt meteorites. I have walked other people's fields with permission but have never known what type of agreement to make with a property owner for a meteorite find. I would be more comfortable if I had something in writing before a situation presents itself. I wondered if you would please share your agreements and experiences (good and bad) with property owners as it relates to a find. Any guidance you can provide will help, Maria Haas _ Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 months! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialuppgmarket=en-usST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The best part of this hobby!
Dear Sappy Jack, Like you, I too enjoy the people just as much as the meteorites themselves. Some of my best friends in the world have come from the meteorite community and I look forward to our time in the field together like a kid looks forward to Christmas. I met Mike Miller a few weeks ago when he and his hunting partner Ruben were in the Phoenix area on business. Not only are these two guys first-class people, but they're also dedicated and gifted meteorite hunters. Devin is lucky to have a dad and a friend like you. Actually, you're both very blessed that you can share a common hobby that allows you to spend time together. Best, John Gwilliam At 04:58 PM 4/4/2004, Jack Schrader wrote: Hello list members! I am a meteorite hobbyist, not a professional in any way, shape or form. Just someone who has grown to truly love this hobby. I first got interested in meteorites via my son's interest in astronomy and space in general. I, not knowing at the time that you could EVEN OWN a meteorite, found a Dalgety Downs on Mike Farmer's ebay listings. This was in the early days way before Gold Basin and Morocco ever happened on the scene. Well, I bid on the meteorite for my son, won it, and the rest you can guess. It has been a truly wonderful experience and a new lease on life for me ever since. I have been able to spend many wonderful weekends out in the desert with my son doing something together that we both found that we love so very much, hunting for these very special rocks and getting so excited TOGETHER when we would find one.The times that I got to spend with my son are truly priceless and I would not trade those times for anything. I have even been so very fortunate as to be able to go to Oman and hunt meteorites WITH my son! A truly incredible experience! My son's name is Devin by the way, a more wonderful and special son, I could not imagine. Many of you may know him personally or have seen his posts to the list. I am twice blessed to have two very special sons! Even though the meteorites themselves are a world of fun to find and collect and own, I just wanted to say that I have found over the years it has been the people that I have met that have been the real treasures in this crazy hobby. I treasure the friendships I have made, and would not trade a single one of them for all of the meteorites you could possibly own in a lifetime! I am absolutely sincere when I say this. I just met Mike Miller of Kingman. A true gentleman and a man of impeccable integrity was my very first impression when we met. I am certain that any of you who know Mike personally would agree. Mike drove seven hours from Kingman to trade some meteorites with me. And then he turned around and drove another seven hours just to get back home. The meteorites are very nice, but I found that I very much enjoyed getting to talk with this man for the short time we had together and realized once again, that this is what it is really about for me. The people, not the things. I look at meteorites as things, a common matrix that we all share which serves to bind us, the chondrules together. For me, it's the people I love, not the things. At the VERY REAL RISK of being labeled SAPPY, Jack Schrader __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What are the odds - OT
Good Morning List, Today is the birthday of one of our list members. This really isn't too unusual except that the date is 04/04/04. (1 to 365 odds). To add to the coincidence, he's also 44 years old. Happy Birthday Keith Vazquez (who also happens to be a four-flusher;-) BTW, anyone who wants some expert advice on using GPR for locating deep iron object, Keith is the go to guy. Best, John Gwilliam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Franconia field trip Part I
Thanks for the great post Sonny. The advice about taking lots of water should not be taken lightly. Although Franconia is right next to a major highway, it is a remote place with no local water available. In the desert heat this time of year you should plan on having at least one liter of water per hour to keep from getting dehydrated. The snake issue is very real as well. In the morning when shadows are still on the long side, it's easy to get too close to a rattler when you've focused your eyes to see meteorites. The Mohave rattlesnake is one of the most poisonous of the Southwest's venomous snakes plus they are small compared to a Western Diamondback which makes them even harder to see. One more thing. Be respectful of the private property. These folks moved out into the boondocks for some privacy and solitude - let's keep it that way. Best, John Gwilliam At 10:40 AM 4/2/2004 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi List, With all of the recent posts about Franconia I thought I would give you an update. I have gone out to the area 5 times and really enjoyed meeting all of the meteorite hunters and the recognized finder of the original Franconia strewnfield John Wolfe. John was one of the nicest people that I have ever met. He gave me the layout of his strewnfield and that helped out alot. I found my first Franconia meteorite within one day. John has an amazing ability to spot meteorites. I would search an area and then John would go thru and find several meteorites that I had walked right past with my footprints over them. I was lucky enough to find 10 meteorites during the 5 trips I was out there. Most of these meteorites are around 400-800 grams. There has been some concern about the locals getting irritated by all of the meteorite hunters. They are not used to having dozens of people walk around their places and surrounding BLM property. I was approached by a local resident while traveling down a residential road and was questioned what was going on. He wondered if I was looking for meteorites. After a few minutes of talking to him I could understand why he was upset. He said that there had been a few meteorite hunters going on private property without permission. I suggested to him to post signs to inform hunters to stay off private land. I assume most of us would abide by this anyways but there were a few people who did not respect the private land. These people moved out there to have privacy and get away from the crowds. Just imagine how you would feel in the same situation. I know that most of us would be offended by people hunting on our land day after day for meteorites. I established a friendly relationship with one local couple. I explained to them that I would post to the list a letter requesting that we are especially conscientious of the private property. We should all work together to maintain our good image as meteorite hunters and collectors. On my last 2 trips which was a total of 5 eight to ten hour days in the field I recovered one 615 gram meteorite. The temperatures were very hot and it made hunting more difficult. The daytime temps were 90's. I also want to advise hunters to keep their eyes open because the snakes are out. I saw 2 rattlesnakes and 1 bullsnake on the last trip. This a known area for the Mohave green rattler. They are active in the morning sunning themselves and hunting in the evenings. Their daytime patterns are to be shaded under the shrubs/brush. This made my hunting a little nerve racking!! If you plan to go hunt Franconia bring lots of water. There are no established campsights but you can camp on BLM land for 14 days max. Out of the 6 meteorite hunters that I met in the field over the last trip there were only a couple of meteorites found. The largest I heard of was a fragmented 240 gram piece. I will send a 2nd post with a link to pictures later today. Sonny __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Franconia Wash Meteorite (8.35 pounds) new pics - last day for offers!
One of the major geographical features in the Franconia area is a large wash appropriately named Franconia Wash. The person trying to sell the 8.35 lb. stone is referring to this place (there is a residential area nearby) and not the state of Washington. John At 10:18 AM 3/26/2004 -0700, Michael Farmer wrote: Bernhard, something is wrong here, Franconia is a place in Arizona, and it is north of Lake Havasu, I thinkl the guy either cant spell or doesnt know which state he is in. Mike - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Bernhard Rendelius Rems To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] l.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Franconia Wash Meteorite (8.35 pounds) new pics - last day for offers! Greetings, on behalf of the finder, I still accept bids for the 8.35 pounds oriented remaglypted meteorite that was found on his property near Franconia Wash (north of Lake Havalu). Once again, here is the pic of the meteorite: http://metcollector.rendelius.com/franc.jpghttp://metcollector.rendelius .com/franc.jpg A list member asked for pics showing the bottom of the meteorite, and the finder sent me these two pics: http://metcollector.rendelius.com/francnew1.jpghttp://metcollector.rende lius.com/francnew1.jpg http://metcollector.rendelius.com/francnew2.jpg I don't want to tell you what the highest offer is (I think it is not common habit when offering something the way I do). All I can say that let's try my luck won't win anymore :-). But serious and reasonable offers are still welcome and do have a chance. Rest assured that I, as middle man in this deal, do not take part in the offering (though my mouth is quite wet *g*). I close this offer on Saturday noon EST, and I will put the one with the highest offer in contact with the finder. Good luck! Bernhard __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How old is Mike Farmer anyways?
I'm confused. Does he play left, center or right? JKG At 07:34 PM 3/24/2004 -0700, David Freeman wrote: I meet this Mike Farmer guy more than once, he sell me a very nice meteorite, he is big in his field. He is good at fielding meteorites, He has good pitch too, is good catcher and plays good on the field. Maybe he is all star? ;-) DF Carl Saconn wrote: I meet Mike Farmer in Tucson. He is out standing in his field. - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] How old is Mike Farmer anyways? Hi list, does anyone know how old Mike Farmer is? I never met him, although I have seen pictures! I thought he was on the younger side? But, it would seem that he is older than the hills, even Nininger talks about Farmer finding meteorites way back when! Every where I read about meteorites, it talks about Farmer finding a meteorite in his field, how many fields does Mike own anyways? ; ) Thanks, Tom peregrineflier Proudest member of the YMCA # OU812 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT, Ebay sucks 2, sorry!
Roman, You're greatly misinformed. The IMCA has nothing to do with the Meteorite Central email list other than some IMCA members are also on the Meteorite List. They are two separate entities. Meteorite Central's Meteorite List has been around for about seven years while the IMCA has been in existence for about two. If you want to shake a finger at someone shake it at the IMCA members that use the Meteorite List to communicate with each other. This isn't one of those hard to figure out chicken and the egg situations...anyone who has been on this List for a while can tell you who came first. You might even consider that the IMCA is somewhat of a remora to the Met List. Best, John Gwilliam At 06:53 AM 3/12/2004 -0500, Roman Nakonechny wrote: Whoa There Mr. Untouchable, You are not an (IMCA) member?. Since when? Can someone please tell me what I'm obviously not understanding here? Why are non-members alowed to disrupt what would normally be an enjoyable electronic conversation amongst friends from the list . Mike , Tell me why you are allowed to post on this list at all . What the hell kind of rules are we into now and what event changed them. I've been wondering how Matteo was getting on and now on the other side of the atlantic , another little devil is sneaking around stirring up crap with Tom, an you're not even a member. As far as I'm concerned you aint got no right to threaten people accross International time zones and you will find yourself incarcerrated one day Mike. Take and heed my word. If he know's where you're at and you're on his turf, Italia- you are bad word - bad word.If any list board members get this e-mail , please make it a short explanation of how a non-member is allowed to post on OUR LIST . Is he going to pay dues too, but that's besides the point really. It isn't right. Has this been going on from the start or something new. T H A N KY O U Roman Nakonechny (IMCA # 0583 ~* MACH15 From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT, Ebay sucks 2, sorry! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:06:28 -0700 Tom, for god's sake, you can choose to hide your feedback. Even a retarded monkey can figure out that someone using a hidden feedback must have some problems, and if they then choose to risk buying from that person, well, buyer beware. Can we please drop this garbage ebay crap. It is not my problem to read all day about things that anyone with the common sense of a rat turd can figure out on their own. If you hate ebay so much, DONT use it. This is exactly why I am not an IMCA member. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT, Ebay sucks 2, sorry! Hello List, I recieved a phone call while typing that last message, I can not type and talk at the same time! : ( Ebay says the feedback is there to protect the people using ebay, right? If ebay allows you to hide the comments left about you, does that not defeat the feedback's purpose? I know you can see the numbers, but numbers do not tell you what the problem is, why do they let bad people protect themselves? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA #6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo knives?
I think most of the knife makers who forge blades out of meteorites prefer to use Gibeon iron due to its tight structure and high nickel content. There is an Arizona knife maker in the Tucson area by the name of Tai Goo who forges damascus blades using iron meteorites. You might want to check with him to find out Canyon Diablos can be used in this process. www.taigoo.com Best, John Gwilliam At 11:33 PM 3/12/2004 +0100, Peter Marmet wrote: Hello list, I know knives have been made of meteoritic irons. Is it possible to make one with a Canyon Diablo, can you forge it ? Thanks for your help. Peter M. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] GPS Recommendations
Hello All, I have used a Garmin 12XL for the past four years and it's a real workhorse. I'm sending it back to Garmin for some updates and I want to purchase a second unit to use while the work is being done. Any of you meteorite hunters have any suggestions...Matson, Verish, Farmer, Hupes? Best, John Gwilliam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Former Astronaut Glenn Criticizes Chimp Space Plan
Randy and List, It seems that this list suffers from a double standard from time to time. Personally, I think that issues pertaining to the USA space program deserve more bandwidth and attention on this list than threads like uhuhuhuhuh and the like. If you want to enforce the letter of Art's laws, most of Ron Baalke's posts shouldn't appear here, after all, what do Mars probes have to do with meteorites? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Baalke's posts and hope they continue to appear on this forum. As caustic as Randy can be at times I think he makes a good point on this issue. I'd much rather toss his subject around for a few days instead of watching Round 75 of the meteorite ego wars or read one more theory about the evolution of a nonsensical word. Have a great weekend, John Gwilliam At 05:30 AM 3/5/2004 -0800, Randy aka Randy Mils wrote: Am I the ony one that finds it sad that the opinion of former Astronaut John Glenn and the first American to orbit the earth is considered by some list members to be not proper for posting on this list but the discussion of uhuhuhuhuh and other non-words is? Randy From: Bernhard \Rendelius\ Rems To: Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Former Astronaut Glenn Criticizes Bush Space Plan Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:06:07 +0100 . where you should be spewing your lefty crap So please keep your righty crap to yourself as well. Thank you. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network -- http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2746??PS=Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks Scams. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites / Mining Claims
Dave, If you are aware of some policy or regulation changes concerning hunting meteorites on public lands, would you please inform us of these changes along with citations for reference? Best, John At 12:38 PM 3/1/2004 -0700, David Freeman wrote: Please understand that public land meteorite hunting in the western U.S. has undergone some changes from what it was back when the last edition of Rocks From Space was written. Sincerely, Dave Freeman Wyoming Meteorite Recovery Team Leader Ebay user ID mjwy auctions running Ron Baalke wrote: I wonder if the same ruling would have been applied if Barringer had been successful in locating a large meteorite below Meteor Crater, Arizona. Maybe it's a size thing. Barringer bought Meteor Crater in 1903. Meteor Crater is still privately owned and the Visitor Center there is run by Barringer's descendants. They formed a company called the Barringer Crater Company. A large portion of the land surrounding the crater is also privately owned. Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] It is ridiculous now.
Doug and List, I met Doug for the first time at the Tucson Show just a few weeks ago. He was one of the people on my to meet short list because I have been very impressed with his depth of vision and a superb ability to express it in type. This is the best post I've seen in the last several years dealing with the issue of Ebay and the selling of suspect meteorites. Over the years, there have been several attempts by well-meaning people to do something to curb the sales of non-meteoritic material as genuine meteorites. All of us know what the result has been: our in-boxes get filled with endless threads about so-and-so bad guy selling meteorwrongs on ebay. What have we accomplished in the past, say, four years? Not much. Don't get me wrong, I think it's an admirable goal to want to make the wrong things in this world right, but unless progress is being made and the end result matches the original goal, what is the point? Back in 1999, a former list member started the Meteorite Sheriff Posse. He personally selected the members he wanted to be in the group and then galloped off on his cyber stallion to rid Ebay of fraudulent meteorite sellers. While there were some interesting moments with this group, the overall result was failure and a lot of wasted time. If the IMCA leadership think policing Ebay should be part of their mission, I suggest they take a good look at what Mexico Doug has to say. Personally, I think that unless a deceptive dealer is a member of the IMCA, no direct action should be taken. A lot of resources that could be applied in a positive and rewarding direction are being used up trying to fight the bad guys one at a time. Thank you Doug for getting us to take a different look at an old problem. Best, John Gwilliam At 11:40 PM 2/23/2004 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: En un mensaje con fecha 02/23/2004 1:25:22 PM Mexico Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribe: Unless you become a victim, there is not a whole lot you can do legally. And that IS sad. I agree the situation is not very happy, though I have a different path to suggest in accomplishing the goal. I want to say you analysis was very convincing if the big hammer approach is to be tried ... enough to tempt anyone. I was very impressed with the resources available that you mentioned. But please also consider: First, what is the goal? Ebay is a giant flea market, is it not? Or does the flea market being on-line mean people have to be more ethical? I don't think the mission of eBay is to get tied up in that sticky issue any more than similar things like porn-proofing the on-line search engines at the source. Similar messes would result in a dynamic situation. I have never seen unofficial vigilante cops running around an asphalt and paint flea market, and the IMCA really has no such jurisdiction. Please don't interpret this as me cutting slack to nefarious thieves. Nothing is further from my thoughts. I think it is just an objective summary of the state of the world at the moment. So rather than changing the world, perhaps we need to drop the Policeman of the World ideas and review some other reasonable options that tend to get us where we want to, efficiently. Some ideas on the table I'd advance: 1. Who's responsibility is it to beware? Ans: the buyer 2. Does eBay permit a flea market policing authority with sanctioning power? Ans: No. 3. What is the IMCA to this? Ans: A special interest SELLER group. 4. What is it to you if you aren't the victim? a) Fulfill a desire to be a vigilante. or b) Increase your sales by giving people more confidence to pay you for your stuff and getting rid of competitors you can squeal on or c) both or d) Nothing. 5. What is it to you if you are the victim? Ans: a) Theft; b) Happy anyway ... no perceived problem. It would seem that this is only a crime when there is victim, with the possible exception of advertising fraud as already pointed out - though that is a rather overkill due to its complexity in preparing the case, a difficult route to take for a flea market, unless you are a victim, and a very mad one at that !! And it would also seem that if IMCA were to consider combating fraud within its goals, the resources should be paid for proportionally, just like the United Nations type of animal it is, based on sales. Perhaps a three tier contribution. But then again, perhaps not: Because not everyone in IMCA feels the same about paying to nail other criminals with their $. I didn't check if IMCA has in its goals to combat fraud. I would think, though, that IMCA is a positive bend, not a crime fighting bend, and as such feels strongly about fraud but does not make it a general focus for membership. Rather, IMCA I view as a positive influence saying, with us you buy with confidence. So based on the above reasoning, I would enter the idea that all IMCA members interested in policing the eBay world start
Re: [meteorite-list] glassface1
The IMCA can only be effective if it has some real teeth to back up it's bark. This would require a lot of work to investigate cases of alleged fraud and then taking steps to expose the errant person or remove them from the IMCA if they are a member. This takes time and most people don't like to work for free. Does anyone know if the IMCA staff is still working at being an active and potent organization? Best, John At 01:05 AM 2/21/2004 -0500, magellon wrote: If that someone else buys the fake, that means they won't be buying our real ones and that means we just sold our meteorite for less than we could have. Huh? It just means they are buying fakes. The thing that hurts everyone, are the burnt new buyers that quit the hobby. The more who join, the more demand. The more demand, the more valuable your meteorites become. Less demand, Less value. IMCA is the answer. The more new persons who join, the more who will be educated to the glassface1's. However, one may have to be burnt once to wise up. And that one quickly learns about IMCA. While they are being educated they can purrchase from IMCA members and not have to worry. Ebay deals with this kinda the same as law enforcement. You can't have a criminal without a victim to accuse him. If enough victims say fraud then ebay acts But only the victims can make the claim. The person can not only be thrown off ebay but can also do jail time. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/online/auctions.htm http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp http://www.consumer.gov/sentinel/ Best, ken IMCA # 9632 www.IMCA.cc http://home.earthlink.net/~magellon/wrongs1.html Tom aka James Knudson wrote: Hello Randy and list, Randy wrote let the buyer beware, that's fine, but, I am trying to protect the sellers as well, including myself. If someone is selling fake meteorites and us collectors won't buy them, someone else will. If that someone else buys the fake, that means they won't be buying our real ones and that means we just sold our meteorite for less than we could have. Then, sellers, to make a profit have to raise there prices and we all have to pay more. It seems that a lot of legitimate sellers are members of the IMCA and we are the ones getting hurt! I think the IMCA members should stick together and fight these fraudulent sellers to protect ourselves. I also think legitimate sellers that are not IMCA members feel the same way. It hurts us all. Am I wrong?Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA #6168 - Original Message - From: Randy Mils To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 8:09 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] glassface1 It has been stated on this list time and time and time again. LEAVE EBAY ALONE. It is not the IMCA's job to police ebay sellers. Let the buyer beware. Randy From: Tom aka James Knudson To: Subject: [meteorite-list] glassface1 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:13:40 -0700 Hey List, this glassface1 Can't even keep the lies strait! Can't something be done about this seller? May be the IMCA can put on an ebay add about fraudulent sellers and how to identify them? Meteorite *ALLENDE* CV3 It's my last one http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie Itemitem=2227157587category=3239 But then lists another one later Meteorite: CV3 Allende Special Huge Stone http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?View temitem=2227224342category=3239 Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA #6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage 4 plans to choose from! __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Proud Tom's Tucson Guide
Michael and List, Kudos to Proudtom once again! Remember, if you're Proudtom and you run into me in Tucson, simply say the following and I'll buy you dinner and a twelver of your favorite brew: I am Proudtom and I want my free dinner and my free beer. Jensen brothers take note. You have to really be Proudtom to collect on this offer. Be prepared to show some form of proof. Best, John Gwilliam At 11:51 PM 1/23/2004 -0800, Michael L Blood wrote: If you want an alternative Tucson guide, visit Proud Tom's site at: http://www.x-mail.net/proudtom4/tucson.html It starts slowly, but by the time I got to the lower half I was laughing my XXX off and by the time I finished I was holding my belly and nearly crying from convulsions. Best wishes, Michael -- When Jesus said Love your enemies I think he probably meant don't kill them. Anonymous -- AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm -- Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm -- http://www.costofwar.com/ -- SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg -- - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm -- Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
