Re: Broadcom BCM5716 support in 4.6/snapshots
i have some 960s floating around here, i'll see if i can give one of them a go with openbsd in the next few days. On 14/09/2009, at 12:06 PM, Predrag Punosevac wrote: Hi, I bought a couple new dells with Broadcom BCM5716 chips on the motherboard for network support but everytime I boot and it gets to the starting network it reboots on me. Anyone have any ideas on this? thanks, JB Hi, I got two weeks ago brand new OptiPlex 960. I think it is manufactured in mid August of this year. It does come with Broadcom Gigabit LAN card. I will check the chip-set for you as well post the dmesg for the developers when I get tomorrow into my office. There was absolutely no way to get that thing working on OpenBSD but the installer was not rebooting on me. It just didn't see the LAN card. I tested with Linux and it was dead as well. I just used PCI LAN card and I am now happy camper. On the final note I want to document one more thing for other users. Those new DeLLs come with some kind stupid software RAID. One has to get into the BIOS and adjust SATA controller into IDE legacy mode. OpenBSD will not otherwise recognize the HDD and I just learned from the fellow NetBSD user that NetBSD has the same problem. Other than that new DeLL OptiPlex 960 is 100% functional with the 4.6 snapshot including my fancy ATi video card. Best, Predrag P.S. I got this DeLL with 4Gb of RAM and OpenBSD (amd64) sees about 3.3Gb. I assume that that is normal behavior as bigmem is still not enabled.
Re: X crashes with snapshot
On Tuesday 08 September 2009 15.27.01 you wrote: On Monday 07 September 2009 18.44.42 Owain Ainsworth wrote: On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:27:31AM +0200, LEVAI Daniel wrote: Fatal server error: Caught signal 11. Server aborting Please checkout the xenocara tree and follow the instructions in README in order to provide a gdb backtrace with debug symbols. I have no idea why people think that X is different in this respect to other applications... Thanks for the pointer, I got it. Here is the output of bt full: [...] Can I be of more assistance with this? Is there a suspicion about what could this be? Daniel -- LIVAI Daniel PGP key ID = 0x4AC0A4B1 Key fingerprint = D037 03B9 C12D D338 4412 2D83 1373 917A 4AC0 A4B1
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Re: X crashes with snapshot
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:32 PM, LEVAI Daniel l...@ecentrum.hu wrote: On Tuesday 08 September 2009 15.27.01 you wrote: On Monday 07 September 2009 18.44.42 Owain Ainsworth wrote: On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:27:31AM +0200, LEVAI Daniel wrote: Fatal server error: Caught signal 11. Server aborting Please checkout the xenocara tree and follow the instructions in README in order to provide a gdb backtrace with debug symbols. I have no idea why people think that X is different in this respect to other applications... Thanks for the pointer, I got it. Here is the output of bt full: [...] Can I be of more assistance with this? Is there a suspicion about what could this be? From your gdb backtrace: #0 0x1c0b7db0 in xf86_reload_cursors (screen=0x7ec3b000) at /usr/xenocara/xserver/hw/xfree86/modes/xf86Cursors.c:615 615 if (!cursor_screen_priv-isUp) #0 0x1c0b7db0 in xf86_reload_cursors (screen=0x7ec3b000) at /usr/xenocara/xserver/hw/xfree86/modes/xf86Cursors.c:615 scrn = 0x88c64800 xf86_config = 0x891b25b0 cursor_info = 0x875c7300 cursor = 0x8a28c000 x = -1994706896 y = 2126768128 cursor_screen_priv = 0x0 this is a null-pointer dereference crash: /usr/xenocara/xserver/hw/xfree86/modes/xf86Cursors.c 612 cursor_screen_priv = dixLookupPrivate(screen-devPrivates, 613 xf86CursorScreenKey); 614 /* return if HW cursor is inactive, to avoid displaying two cursors 615 if (!cursor_screen_priv-isUp) 616 return; I'm stating the obvious here, of course. Whether it's OK for dixLookupPrivate() to return NULL or if that points to further problems is /way/ beyond my grasp of knowledge. If it is acceptable for a NULL to be returned, a simple check for a NULL pointer before the dereference could fix the crash. But, wait for someone more qualified to chime in :-) --patrick
Re: X crashes with snapshot
On Monday 14 September 2009 11.00.49 you wrote: On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:32 PM, LEVAI Daniel l...@ecentrum.hu wrote: On Tuesday 08 September 2009 15.27.01 you wrote: On Monday 07 September 2009 18.44.42 Owain Ainsworth wrote: On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:27:31AM +0200, LEVAI Daniel wrote: Fatal server error: Caught signal 11. Server aborting Please checkout the xenocara tree and follow the instructions in README in order to provide a gdb backtrace with debug symbols. I have no idea why people think that X is different in this respect to other applications... Thanks for the pointer, I got it. Here is the output of bt full: [...] Can I be of more assistance with this? Is there a suspicion about what could this be? From your gdb backtrace: #0 0x1c0b7db0 in xf86_reload_cursors (screen=0x7ec3b000) at /usr/xenocara/xserver/hw/xfree86/modes/xf86Cursors.c:615 615 if (!cursor_screen_priv-isUp) #0 0x1c0b7db0 in xf86_reload_cursors (screen=0x7ec3b000) at /usr/xenocara/xserver/hw/xfree86/modes/xf86Cursors.c:615 scrn = 0x88c64800 xf86_config = 0x891b25b0 cursor_info = 0x875c7300 cursor = 0x8a28c000 x = -1994706896 y = 2126768128 cursor_screen_priv = 0x0 this is a null-pointer dereference crash: /usr/xenocara/xserver/hw/xfree86/modes/xf86Cursors.c 612 cursor_screen_priv = dixLookupPrivate(screen-devPrivates, 613 xf86CursorScreenKey); 614 /* return if HW cursor is inactive, to avoid displaying two cursors 615 if (!cursor_screen_priv-isUp) 616 return; I'm stating the obvious here, of course. Whether it's OK for dixLookupPrivate() to return NULL or if that points to further problems is /way/ beyond my grasp of knowledge. If it is acceptable for a NULL to be returned, a simple check for a NULL pointer before the dereference could fix the crash. But, wait for someone more qualified to chime in :-) Thank you for the information! This gave me the idea, if this has anything to do with my Option SWCursor on setting, after all, the file in question is xf86Cursors.c. Disabling SWCursor solves the crash ( yay! ), but unfortunatelly with hardware cursor and Virtual Display setting, the mouse cursor tranforms into weird artifacts during its motion. Well, it is better than the crash :) Daniel -- LIVAI Daniel PGP key ID = 0x4AC0A4B1 Key fingerprint = D037 03B9 C12D D338 4412 2D83 1373 917A 4AC0 A4B1
OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
Hi, As some of you may know, my beloved x31 thinkpad went pop last week and needs a new system board :( Not worth the effort in replacing. I have located someone willing to sell me an X41 tablet at a very affordable price, however this is the model with the sucky hitachi disk. I have seen that you can get SSD adaptors for X41's and slap an SSD in there, but I am not really sure if it is wise, as SSD disks seems to be rather expensive. My questions: a) Is there anywhere you can get SSD's for cheaper than 100GBP. I only really need 60GB or so. b) Any other comments? Thanks -- Best Regards Edd Barrett (Freelance software developer / technical writer / open-source developer) http://students.dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/ebarrett
really strange console message?
Hi, today, one of my servers (4.5-stable/i386) beeped to me, over an SSH connection, and said this, via syslogd: hostname /bsd: 1540? The fact that the message went to a terminal suggests that this should describe a pretty serious error condition. Google turned up nothing, though... Kind regards, --Toni++
Re: Java plugin
On 9/13/2009 10:48 PM, eagir...@cox.net wrote: But the predicted (by the FAQ) message on using the plugin that comes along with JDK installation did not appear. IIRC, the Java 1.7 port doesn't include the plugin.
Re: Erlangen Mirror Downtime
On 2009-09-13, Toni Mueller openbsd-m...@oeko.net wrote: Hi, On Wed, 19.08.2009 at 09:37:26 +0200, Alexander von Gernler gr...@pestilenz.org wrote: This means that the mirror won't be available for a longer period of time before I can bring it back online. I will reflect this situation on the respective www pages very soon, just giving you a heads-up via mail now. any progess on this? I liked the Erlangen mirror for its comparably liberal access policy. Eg. when I try to install some package and it doesn't work on the first attempt, I often find myself locked out from a given mirror on subsequent attempts, presumably because the sense a denial of service attack. It can take quite some time to gain access to the host in question again. :-( If you're using ftp (particularly via ftp-proxy, which mangles the telnet abort sequence) try http instead.
Re: Java plugin
Bryan wrote: On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 19:48, eagir...@cox.net wrote: Well, I built and installed the JDK (1.7) from ports. The FAQ is correct about it's taking a long time, and it took so much space that I ended up mounting an additional partition for /usr/ports, because /usr ran out of space the first time. But the predicted (by the FAQ) message on using the plugin that comes along with JDK installation did not appear. What have I missed? Relevant messages below. -- As far as I know, the browser plugin is only available in 1.5. You wasted a ton of time building 1.7, as there are packages for it. 1.5 still needs to be built so you can use the browser plugin... Well, poking around directories, make, make build, and make install return instantly and silently in the 1.5 directory. Does 1.7 need to be uninstalled first? [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/DEFANGED which had a name of eagirard.3735DEFANGED-vcf]
Re: Java plugin
Starting from 1.7 OpenBSD has a fully GPLv2 licensed port, that can be installed as a package. Users looking for the browser plugin will still need to build 1.5 or 1.6 from ports until Sun releases the plugin code. -- openbsd faq eagir...@cox.net wrote: Well, I built and installed the JDK (1.7) from ports. The FAQ is correct about it's taking a long time, and it took so much space that I ended up mounting an additional partition for /usr/ports, because /usr ran out of space the first time. But the predicted (by the FAQ) message on using the plugin that comes along with JDK installation did not appear. What have I missed? Relevant messages below. -- Ed Ahlsen-Girard Ft. Walton Beach FL
Re: how see refresh rate computer sends to LCD screen
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 05:46:30AM +0200, Jesus Sanchez wrote: Nick Holland escribis: Jesus Sanchez wrote: Hi, using 4.5 stable. I'm doing some tests with the VESA driver on a HP nx9030 (a laptop) and I noticed a little flicker on the screen when I'm using the VESA driver so I wanted to see the refresh rate the computer is sending to the LCD screen and xrandr reported: 1024 x 768 0.0 not overly suprising, the VESA driver is about getting dots on the screen, not tweaking every register in the graphics chip. I also don't know that it is supporting xrandr. while with the intel driver for the card xrandr reported 1024 x 768 60.0 Is there anyway to see the refresh rate the LCD screen is recieving? It's a laptop so it don't have any control panel or buttons to interact directly with the LCD screen. it doesn't need them, either. normally, the video chip will interface directly to the LCD, it won't be doing multiple conversions that all the control panel buttons are there to help with. LCD screens don't refresh in a way that is directly comparable to CRTs. Any numbers you see reflect the the data rate between the CRTC and the LCD hardware, not how data is displayed on the LCD...and on a laptop, even that is probably mostly fiction. If you are seeing flicker on the LCD screen, it is something OTHER than the CRTC's refresh rate... unfortunately, some of them could be hardware no, it's not a hardware problem, as I said before, this flicker only happens when I'm using vesa as driver. so if the intel driver works, don't use vesa... -0- -- Never settle with words what you can accomplish with a flame thrower.
Nuevo Curso de Creacion Musical Reggaeton
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Re: :Microsoft VPN
Jacob Yocom-Piatt wrote: stan wrote: OUr company was bought out a while back, and the new oweres are changing pretty much everryhting. This includes changing external access from a Cisco VPN to a Microsoft VPN. Can anyone here give me a pinter to where I can get information on this? What I want to be able to do is use my OpenBSD firwall at home to VPN on to work. if they end up using that crappy L2TP vpn that windows machines can do 'out of the box', you're up shit creek afaik. search the archives for l2tp to see some of the unpleasantness. correction: last time i checked (2006) you're up shit creek if you want to serve such a solution using openbsd appears the client isn't an issue based on brynet's post
Re: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
From: Edd Barrett vex...@gmail.com I have located someone willing to sell me an X41 tablet at a very affordable price, however this is the model with the sucky hitachi disk [..snip..] a) Is there anywhere you can get SSD's for cheaper than 100GBP. I only really need 60GB or so. b) Any other comments? Unless the price is very, very good I wouldn't bother with the X41. If it's not out of warranty it will be so within a month or two. Go for an X60 or X61 instead. With an X61 you'll get a Core2Duo, VT support, 8GB memory support and an SATA disk. Plus it's easily possible to find one still in warranty until 2010 onwards. Only an idiot buys a laptop without a warranty, except when it's staggeringly cheap. If you must persist with the X41, buy a big compact flash and IDE-CF adaptor. It will be faster than the horrid 1.8 PATA hard drive. There are articles on this online. I went down this route last December. The choice was an X31/X32 at 100GBP or less (no warranty), an X41 at 200GBPish or an X60 or X61 from 400 upwards. My rationale was to go for broke. At 200GBPish, you can afford a new netbook which will be as fast (but not as well built) as the X41 and have a warranty. OK, so 400GBP is quite a jump, but for that you can find an X61 on ebay with a warranty and modern support. The only thing that sucks about it is the X3100 graphics, but you're buying a sub notebook, not a gaming laptop. PK
Re: OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 02:37:39PM +, Christian Weisgerber wrote: b) Any other comments? I don't think there is any SSD available that (1) can be fitted into an X40/X41, (2) is available in 64 GB or more, and (3) has reasonable performance for small random writes. It's frustrating as hell. RunCore also makes a drive that fits without an adaptor. AFAIK, it's available in capacities ranging from from 16 to 128 GB. Seems quite expensive, though. http://www.runcorestore.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80A5-1249409435 At least here, one could get a used X60 for the cost of the 128GB drive.
Re: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Peter Kay - Syllopsium wrote: Unless the price is very, very good I wouldn't bother with the X41. If it's not out of warranty it will be so within a month or two. Go for an X60 or X61 instead. With an X61 you'll get a Core2Duo, VT support, 8GB memory support and an SATA disk. Plus it's easily possible to find one still in warranty until 2010 onwards. Only an idiot buys a laptop without a warranty, except when it's staggeringly cheap. It could make sense. However, you won't have working suspend/resume with OpenBSD yet and will have to fight with ACPI and its possible problems. Not speaking about hibernation, which X4x laptops have. Also, a keyboard without Microsoft keys is much more comfortable for some. Each has its own advantages. Regards, David
Re: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
- Original Message - From: David Vasek va...@fido.cz It could make sense. However, you won't have working suspend/resume with OpenBSD yet and will have to fight with ACPI and its possible problems. Not speaking about hibernation, which X4x laptops have. Also, a keyboard without Microsoft keys is much more comfortable for some. Each has its own advantages. I'll grant you that suspend is not supposed to be working yet (I haven't actually tried). It will work, eventually, though. Everything else is, as far as I'm aware, absolutely fine. Installation of OpenBSD on an X61 is a breeze, at least for amd64 (That's another advantage, of course : X31/X41 is 32 bit only). The only issue I've found so far is that VLC 0.8.6 is considerably less usable than under Vista x64; the sound lags the video to an unusable degree. I've not yet compiled VLC 1.0 to find out whether the issue is VLC (not unlikely), the sound driver (possible) or X (very unlikely IMO). Accelerated X is fine, and OpenGL on the X3100 appears to be fully functional too. PK
:Microsoft VPN
OUr company was bought out a while back, and the new oweres are changing pretty much everryhting. This includes changing external access from a Cisco VPN to a Microsoft VPN. Can anyone here give me a pinter to where I can get information on this? What I want to be able to do is use my OpenBSD firwall at home to VPN on to work. -- One of the main causes of the fall of the roman empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.
Re: :Microsoft VPN
Hi stan, Are you talking about a PPTP client? http://openports.se/net/pptp -Brynet
Re: :Microsoft VPN
stan wrote: OUr company was bought out a while back, and the new oweres are changing pretty much everryhting. This includes changing external access from a Cisco VPN to a Microsoft VPN. Can anyone here give me a pinter to where I can get information on this? What I want to be able to do is use my OpenBSD firwall at home to VPN on to work. if they end up using that crappy L2TP vpn that windows machines can do 'out of the box', you're up shit creek afaik. search the archives for l2tp to see some of the unpleasantness.
supported travel printer and scanner
i am looking for a travel printer and scanner (two separate devices) that are supported by openbsd, specifically amd64. i am aware that this info is listed on the site but a suggestion from an actual user is what i'm after prior to purchasing. main things i'm after are - durability - reliability - compact and low weight any extra information about which software you use to get the devices working would be great. cheers, jake
Re: OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
As just for information at ldlc.com you find out a 32 GO for some 90 EUR and a 64 GO for a 130 EUR inc transp. I use one of them on my PC and installed OpenBSD quite well, however not a laptop. Just be sure it will meet your need. Le lundi 14 septembre 2009 C 11:13 +0100, Edd Barrett a C)crit : Hi, As some of you may know, my beloved x31 thinkpad went pop last week and needs a new system board :( Not worth the effort in replacing. I have located someone willing to sell me an X41 tablet at a very affordable price, however this is the model with the sucky hitachi disk. I have seen that you can get SSD adaptors for X41's and slap an SSD in there, but I am not really sure if it is wise, as SSD disks seems to be rather expensive. My questions: a) Is there anywhere you can get SSD's for cheaper than 100GBP. I only really need 60GB or so. b) Any other comments? Thanks
Re: OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
Oliver Peter li...@peter.de.com wrote: I don't think there is any SSD available that (1) can be fitted into an X40/X41, (2) is available in 64 GB or more, and (3) has reasonable performance for small random writes. KingSpec-1-8-IDE-SSD-MLC-64GB Indeed. Lenovo also has an SSD for the X40/X41 as replacement part FRU41W0736. This is a Samsung drive installed into a caddy with a ZIF to IDE adapter. They pop up from time to time on eBay for USD 200+. No idea about the performance regarding small files and That is the big question. Well, I just ordered one of the Lenovo drives. I'll see how that works out. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
Edd Barrett vex...@gmail.com wrote: I have located someone willing to sell me an X41 tablet at a very affordable price, however this is the model with the sucky hitachi disk. I have seen that you can get SSD adaptors for X41's and slap an SSD in there, Careful, even with an adapter you can only fit a drive with a PATA (IDE) interface, _not_ a SATA one. a) Is there anywhere you can get SSD's for cheaper than 100GBP. I only really need 60GB or so. The Mtron MSD-PATA3018 that is very popular for fitting into the X40/X41 only ships with 32 GB and is already at ~1.5 times that price. b) Any other comments? I don't think there is any SSD available that (1) can be fitted into an X40/X41, (2) is available in 64 GB or more, and (3) has reasonable performance for small random writes. It's frustrating as hell. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: :Microsoft VPN
If its just a pptp connection your going to be using, this is pretty simple, install the pptp package, and then look at man pptp, they have an example of this exact setup in that man page. J On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:55 AM, stan st...@panix.com wrote: OUr company was bought out a while back, and the new oweres are changing pretty much everryhting. This includes changing external access from a Cisco VPN to a Microsoft VPN. Can anyone here give me a pinter to where I can get information on this? What I want to be able to do is use my OpenBSD firwall at home to VPN on to work. -- One of the main causes of the fall of the roman empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.
Re: OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
Hi, On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Dan Harnett dan...@harnett.name wrote: At least here, one could get a used X60 for the cost of the 128GB drive. Yes, I think this is my new plan. Would have been nice to have the tablet, but it's not essential. Thanks to all that replied. -- Best Regards Edd Barrett (Freelance software developer / technical writer / open-source developer) http://students.dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/ebarrett
Re: toad VPN
stan wrote: OUr company was bought out a while back, and the new oweres are changing pretty much everryhting. This includes changing external access from a Cisco VPN to a Microsoft VPN. Can anyone here give me a pinter to where I can get information on this? There's no legitimate constructive use for a Microsoft VPN. That's it in a nutshell. PPTP and L2TP are messes. If they push, get names. You'll have to address the vandalism sooner or later. What I want to be able to do is use my OpenBSD firwall at home to VPN on to work. OpenVPN, either IPSec or SSL, if the new owners are sold on having a VPN at all. Should work even with clients on legacy operating systems. http://www.openbsd.org/4.5_packages/i386/openvpn-2.1rc15.tgz-long.html If your network services are set up properly there are few if any cases where you need a VPN for regular business work or support. -Lars
Re: OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 02:37:39PM +, Christian Weisgerber wrote: Edd Barrett vex...@gmail.com wrote: ... b) Any other comments? I don't think there is any SSD available that (1) can be fitted into an X40/X41, (2) is available in 64 GB or more, and (3) has reasonable performance for small random writes. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KingSpec-1-8-IDE-SSD-MLC-64GB-work-in-IBM-X40-X41-X41T_W0QQitemZ370224035188QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDE_Elektronik_Computer_Computer_Festplatten?hash=item5633127574_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1229|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 No idea about the performance regarding small files and and the sender looks dodgy[1] to me but the price seems to be alright. [1] NO TAXES OR IMPORT DUTIES IF YOU BUY FROM US AS THEY ARE MARKED AS GIFTS -- Oliver PETER email: oli...@peter.de.com ICQ# 113969174 I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe. -- Jango Fett
Help recovering backup OpenBSD firewall configs
A few weeks back I had a hardware failure on my backup OpenBSD 4.0 firewall amchine. It's one of pair with carp and pfsync. It also proveds ospf to our corporate ospf cloud. I shut this machine down, and ran on only ther primary for a while. Unfortunately that while turned out to be long enough to have my nightly Amanda backup machine cycle through all of it's tapes. I have restored a copy of the other machine of this pair, and I need to recreate the 2nd machines config files. I am thinking that I need to look at the /etc/hostnmae* files.. In our case the /etc/motd file tells you which one you actually got conected to, and I have already fixed that. What other config files might I be overlooking? -- One of the main causes of the fall of the roman empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.
Defending OpenBSD Performance
Hi Misc, Even though this article: http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability was many years ago and performance in OpenBSD had improved greatly since that time, I still hear people (mostly younger people) complain about OpenBSD performance. They cite poor threading, unused cores, no bigmem support, etc. Yet, when asked outright to demonstrate their issue, no one can show numbers or reproduce a performance issue. How do others defend OpenBSD in these conversations? I normally cite the things I admire most about OpenBSD: 1. Simplicty - (IMO, this is by far its greatest attribute... simple is secure) 2. OpenSSH 3. pf, carp, OpenBGPD 4. built-in security 5. ports collection But, I'd like to have hard technicaly data to demonstrate that while Linux and FreeBSD may scale to a gazillion CPUs and PetaBytes of Memory that OpenBSD makes a fine firewall or desktop or mail server, etc and point out that the old article so many people cite is indeed *old*. Thanks for any suggestions. I hate seeing such a fine OS so easily dismissed by folks (many of whom) have never even tried it!
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
On Monday 14 September 2009 13:39:46 Tom Smith wrote: Hi Misc, Even though this article: http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability was many years ago and performance in OpenBSD had improved greatly since that time, I still hear people (mostly younger people) complain about OpenBSD performance. They cite poor threading, unused cores, no bigmem support, etc. Yet, when asked outright to demonstrate their issue, no one can show numbers or reproduce a performance issue. How do others defend OpenBSD in these conversations? I normally cite the things I admire most about OpenBSD: 1. Simplicty - (IMO, this is by far its greatest attribute... simple is secure) 2. OpenSSH 3. pf, carp, OpenBGPD 4. built-in security 5. ports collection But, I'd like to have hard technicaly data to demonstrate that while Linux and FreeBSD may scale to a gazillion CPUs and PetaBytes of Memory that OpenBSD makes a fine firewall or desktop or mail server, etc and point out that the old article so many people cite is indeed *old*. Thanks for any suggestions. I hate seeing such a fine OS so easily dismissed by folks (many of whom) have never even tried it! Attempting to prove the worth of OpenBSD to folks who are not able to figure things out for themsevles is much like trying to teach butterflies Calculus. It doesn't work and wastes your time. --STeve Andre'
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
Tom Smith wrote: 3. pf, carp, OpenBGPD pfsync Regards, -Lars
Re: OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
On Monday 14 September 2009 06:13:26 Edd Barrett wrote: Hi, As some of you may know, my beloved x31 thinkpad went pop last week and needs a new system board :( Not worth the effort in replacing. I have located someone willing to sell me an X41 tablet at a very affordable price, however this is the model with the sucky hitachi disk. I have seen that you can get SSD adaptors for X41's and slap an SSD in there, but I am not really sure if it is wise, as SSD disks seems to be rather expensive. My questions: a) Is there anywhere you can get SSD's for cheaper than 100GBP. I only really need 60GB or so. b) Any other comments? Thanks I read that you decided to get an x60 but I'm commenting on this anyway. SSDs are clearly the future. That is, in the future--not now. I've seen too many weird things with them, and there is one species of SSD that is sensitive to strong RF fields in the 30MHz - 70MHz range; they crash or do just plain strange things. Certainly there are SSDs that work just fine, but from the experiences of friends, I'd say they're at least 3 times more flaky than disks are. Intel had a recall on some earlier this summer, too. Disks are cheap, really cheap right now... --STeve Andre'
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
I've heard a different version of that one: ...is like teaching a pig to sing, it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. Saludos, Jose. On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:44:55 -0400, STeve Andre' and...@msu.edu wrote: Attempting to prove the worth of OpenBSD to folks who are not able to figure things out for themsevles is much like trying to teach butterflies Calculus. It doesn't work and wastes your time. --STeve Andre'
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
STeve Andre' wrote: On Monday 14 September 2009 13:39:46 Tom Smith wrote: Hi Misc, Even though this article: http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability was many years ago and performance in OpenBSD had improved greatly since that time, I still hear people (mostly younger people) complain about OpenBSD performance. They cite poor threading, unused cores, no bigmem support, etc. Yet, when asked outright to demonstrate their issue, no one can show numbers or reproduce a performance issue. How do others defend OpenBSD in these conversations? I normally cite the things I admire most about OpenBSD: 1. Simplicty - (IMO, this is by far its greatest attribute... simple is secure) 2. OpenSSH 3. pf, carp, OpenBGPD 4. built-in security 5. ports collection But, I'd like to have hard technicaly data to demonstrate that while Linux and FreeBSD may scale to a gazillion CPUs and PetaBytes of Memory that OpenBSD makes a fine firewall or desktop or mail server, etc and point out that the old article so many people cite is indeed *old*. Thanks for any suggestions. I hate seeing such a fine OS so easily dismissed by folks (many of whom) have never even tried it! Attempting to prove the worth of OpenBSD to folks who are not able to figure things out for themsevles is much like trying to teach butterflies Calculus. It doesn't work and wastes your time. --STeve Andre' Ditto. Furthermore, OpenBSD is not a religion (not for me, at least). The only things OpenBSD *itself* needs is code and donations, not more devotees unless I'm severely mistaken. If someone wants to use inferior tools to for a given project's requirements I'm more than happy to let them do so (unless they're paying me for consulting). Cheers, Tico
Re: OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:40:36PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote: Certainly there are SSDs that work just fine, but from the experiences of friends, I'd say they're at least 3 times more flaky than disks are. Intel had a recall on some earlier this summer, too. Disks are cheap, really cheap right now... Disks for the X40/X41 are not at all cheap. These are a very rare breed, hence the discussion and frustration of many X40/X41 owners. -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net/
Re: OT: Laptop advice. SSD costs.
On Monday 14 September 2009 14:17:35 you wrote: On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:40:36PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote: Certainly there are SSDs that work just fine, but from the experiences of friends, I'd say they're at least 3 times more flaky than disks are. Intel had a recall on some earlier this summer, too. Disks are cheap, really cheap right now... Disks for the X40/X41 are not at all cheap. These are a very rare breed, hence the discussion and frustration of many X40/X41 owners. Well, I stand corrected. The source I used to buy one doesn't have any more, and it seems that the price for a new 40G disk is on the order of $280, a significant increase from when I bought one. So that makes the SSDs more attractive. I'm still leery of them, though. --STeve Andre'
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
If you think micro benchmarks are worth anything you have a micro understanding of the problem. On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 01:39:46PM -0400, Tom Smith wrote: Hi Misc, Even though this article: http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability was many years ago and performance in OpenBSD had improved greatly since that time, I still hear people (mostly younger people) complain about OpenBSD performance. They cite poor threading, unused cores, no bigmem support, etc. Yet, when asked outright to demonstrate their issue, no one can show numbers or reproduce a performance issue. How do others defend OpenBSD in these conversations? I normally cite the things I admire most about OpenBSD: 1. Simplicty - (IMO, this is by far its greatest attribute... simple is secure) 2. OpenSSH 3. pf, carp, OpenBGPD 4. built-in security 5. ports collection But, I'd like to have hard technicaly data to demonstrate that while Linux and FreeBSD may scale to a gazillion CPUs and PetaBytes of Memory that OpenBSD makes a fine firewall or desktop or mail server, etc and point out that the old article so many people cite is indeed *old*. Thanks for any suggestions. I hate seeing such a fine OS so easily dismissed by folks (many of whom) have never even tried it!
Re: Broadcom BCM5716 support in 4.6/snapshots
Hi, I bought a couple new dells with Broadcom BCM5716 chips on the motherboard for network support but everytime I boot and it gets to the starting network it reboots on me. Anyone have any ideas on this? thanks, JB Hi, I got two weeks ago brand new OptiPlex 960. I think it is manufactured in mid August of this year. It does come with Broadcom Gigabit LAN card. I will check the chip-set for you as well post the dmesg for the developers when I get tomorrow into my office. There was absolutely no way to get that thing working on OpenBSD but the installer was not rebooting on me. It just didn't see the LAN card. I tested with Linux and it was dead as well. I just used PCI LAN card and I am now happy camper. On the final note I want to document one more thing for other users. Those new DeLLs come with some kind stupid software RAID. One has to get into the BIOS and adjust SATA controller into IDE legacy mode. OpenBSD will not otherwise recognize the HDD and I just learned from the fellow NetBSD user that NetBSD has the same problem. Other than that new DeLL OptiPlex 960 is 100% functional with the 4.6 snapshot including my fancy ATi video card. Best, Predrag P.S. I got this DeLL with 4Gb of RAM and OpenBSD (amd64) sees about 3.3Gb. I assume that that is normal behavior as bigmem is still not enabled. Here is the dmesg I promised. OpenBSD 4.6-current (GENERIC.MP) #168: Mon Aug 31 17:09:01 MDT 2009 dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP real mem = 3486511104 (3324MB) avail mem = 3391860736 (3234MB) RTC BIOS diagnostic error 11memory_size mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.5 @ 0xf0450 (82 entries) bios0: vendor Dell Inc. version A04 date 04/29/2009 bios0: Dell Inc. OptiPlex 960 acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SSDT APIC BOOT ASF! MCFG HPET TCPA SLIC acpi0: wakeup devices VBTN(S4) PCI0(S5) PCI4(S5) PCI2(S5) PCI3(S5) PCI1(S5) PCI5(S5) PCI6(S5) MOU_(S3) USB0(S3) USB1(S3) USB2(S3) USB3(S3) USB4(S3) USB5(S3) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz, 2992.91 MHz cpu0: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,CX16,xTPR,NXE,LONG cpu0: 6MB 64b/line 16-way L2 cache cpu0: apic clock running at 332MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz, 2992.50 MHz cpu1: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,CX16,xTPR,NXE,LONG cpu1: 6MB 64b/line 16-way L2 cache ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 8 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 0, remapped to apid 8 acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 4 (PCI4) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 2 (PCI2) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 3 (PCI3) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 1 (PCI1) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus -1 (PCI5) acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus -1 (PCI6) acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1 acpicpu1 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1 acpibtn0 at acpi0: VBTN cpu0: unknown Enhanced SpeedStep CPU, msr 0x0616092606000926 cpu0: using only highest and lowest power states cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 2992 MHz: speeds: 3000, 2000 MHz pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0 pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel Q45 Host rev 0x03 ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 Intel Q45 PCIE rev 0x03: apic 8 int 16 (irq 11) pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 vga1 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 ATI Radeon HD 3450 rev 0x00 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation) vendor Intel, unknown product 0x2e14 (class communications subclass miscellaneous, rev 0x03) at pci0 dev 3 function 0 not configured pciide0 at pci0 dev 3 function 2 Intel Q45 PT IDER rev 0x03: DMA (unsupported), channel 0 wired to native-PCI, channel 1 wired to native-PCI pciide0: using apic 8 int 18 (irq 9) for native-PCI interrupt pciide0: channel 0 ignored (not responding; disabled or no drives?) pciide0: channel 1 ignored (not responding; disabled or no drives?) Intel Q45 KT rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 3 function 3 not configured Intel ICH10 D BM LM rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 25 function 0 not configured uhci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 0 Intel 82801JD USB rev 0x02: apic 8 int 16 (irq 11) uhci1 at pci0 dev 26 function 1 Intel 82801JD USB rev 0x02: apic 8 int 17 (irq 5) uhci2 at pci0 dev 26 function 2 Intel 82801JD USB rev 0x02: apic 8 int 22 (irq 5) ehci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 7 Intel 82801JD USB rev 0x02: apic 8 int 22 (irq 5) usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 82801JD HD Audio rev 0x02: apic 8 int 16 (irq 11) azalia0: codecs: Analog Devices AD1984A audio0 at azalia0 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 0
Re: :Microsoft VPN
Hi Stan, OUr company was bought out a while back, and the new oweres are changing pretty much everryhting. This includes changing external access from a Cisco VPN to a Microsoft VPN. Can anyone here give me a pinter to where I can get information on this? What I want to be able to do is use my OpenBSD firwall at home to VPN on to work. If you want use IPSec, you can use Windows 2003 or 2008. The implementation on W2K8 needs some patches to work out. You can do it even if the Windows machine is going to be the central hub for the VPN. If you are interested, I have the following setups: 1) XP - Internet - OpenBSD - LAN 2) LAN - OpenBSD - Internet - OpenBSD - LAN 3) XP - Internet - W2K3 / W2K8 4) Other variants are also possible All of them use IPSec. A few months ago I sent a message regarding this subject. You can read the conversation at http://www.mail-archive.com/misc@openbsd.org/msg74592.html. Rgds, Marcello
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
On 9/14/2009 2:53 PM, Marco Peereboom wrote: If you think micro benchmarks are worth anything you have a micro understanding of the problem. You shouldn't make generalizations like that. What if his primary workload is micro benchmarks?
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
Then it is of micro importance. On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 03:46:13PM -0400, Steve Shockley wrote: On 9/14/2009 2:53 PM, Marco Peereboom wrote: If you think micro benchmarks are worth anything you have a micro understanding of the problem. You shouldn't make generalizations like that. What if his primary workload is micro benchmarks?
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 01:39:46PM -0400, Tom Smith wrote: Hi Misc, Even though this article: http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability was many years ago and performance in OpenBSD had improved greatly since that time, I still hear people (mostly younger people) complain about OpenBSD performance. They cite poor threading, unused cores, no bigmem support, etc. Yet, when asked outright to demonstrate their issue, no one can show numbers or reproduce a performance issue. How do others defend OpenBSD in these conversations? I normally cite the things I admire most about OpenBSD: Yeah, it is always the same crap that is cited everywhere. The performance problems his benchmarks have shown on connect, bind and accept were solved in 2003 (quickly after he published his rant). Since then OpenBSD has an approximate O(1) behaviour like all the other OSs. The biggest flaw with all those great benchmark articles is that their often flawed and the people behind them are biased to show whatever they like to prove. In the end many of fefe's test programs did not actually measure what he assumed they would. -- :wq Claudio
supported travel printer and scanner
i am looking for a travel printer and scanner (two separate devices) that are supported by openbsd, specifically amd64. i am aware that this info is listed on the site but a suggestion from an actual user is what i'm after prior to purchasing. main things i'm after are - durability - reliability - compact and low weight any extra information about which software you use to get the devices working would be great. cheers, jake
misc@openbsd.org / Asistentes Administrativas y Secretarias Ejecutivas
Congreso de Habilidades y Actualizacisn Total para Asistentes Administrativas y Secretarias Ejecutivas MEXICO D.F. 28-29 de septiembre de 2009 Sede:CENTRO BANAMEX / PALACIO DE LA CANAL 10 Reciba un folleto con toda la informacisn Opcisn 1)llamando al 01 800 250 20 30 Opcisn 2)respondiendo los siguientes datos: -Empresa: -Nombre: -Puesto: -Tel: ( ) You are currently signed up to this newsletter as misc@openbsd.org . To unsubscribe and discontinue mailings, please send a blank email __ Informacisn de ESET Smart Security, versisn de la base de firmas de virus 4390 (20090902) __ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com
dhcpd and net.inet.ip.mforwarding / multipath
Hello, I want to be sure that the following two sysctl variables are not needed for a basic internet router/gateway with NAT: net.inet.ip.mforwarding net.inet.ip.multipath I've already enabled: net.inet.ip.forwarding Perhaps the first two are needed for 'exotic' services like Bonjour, etc.? Thanks, Doug
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
hmm, on Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:23:58PM +0200, Claudio Jeker said that like to prove. In the end many of fefe's test programs did not actually measure what he assumed they would. and he was open to get patches to remedy those problems. general dislike of any benchmark in the world is also part of the openbsd culture just like some qualities of misc@ (although it's been quite quiet lately). if the numbers were better, the general sentiment would be rather different i believe. linux is faster in many respects (just look at zaurus) so what? i dont use openbsd for its speed, but on the other hand i dont downplay the importance of measuring things up and comparing it with the others once in a while. i am sure speed in the end is of councern, otherwise the os woudln't be in C but, whatchamacallit, python. some things can be measured actually quite easily: how much content a web server serves (not that much without sendfile()), how do the databases perform, etc, this is all benchmark in the end, and the programs doing the benchmarking are actually the daemons themselves. so there, everyone is benchmarking 24/7 :] -f -- dragon riders make good first impressions.
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:15:27 +0200 frantisek holop min...@obiit.org wrote: hmm, on Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:23:58PM +0200, Claudio Jeker said that like to prove. In the end many of fefe's test programs did not actually measure what he assumed they would. and he was open to get patches to remedy those problems. general dislike of any benchmark in the world is also part of the openbsd culture just like some qualities of misc@ (although it's been quite quiet lately). if the numbers were better, the general sentiment would be rather different i believe. linux is faster in many respects (just look at zaurus) so what? i dont use openbsd for its speed, but on the other hand i dont downplay the importance of measuring things up and comparing it with the others once in a while. i am sure speed in the end is of councern, otherwise the os woudln't be in C but, whatchamacallit, python. some things can be measured actually quite easily: how much content a web server serves (not that much without sendfile()), how do the databases perform, etc, this is all benchmark in the end, and the programs doing the benchmarking are actually the daemons themselves. so there, everyone is benchmarking 24/7 :] -f In the end it boils down to measuring the different OS on the hardware you will use for the task they should fullfill, nothing else matters in the end. - Robert
Child Foundation News-Back to School
Dear Friend, As children go back to school this month, a new year of classes has begun. For many children this means advancing to a higher level grade, getting new clothes and new school supplies. Children living in poverty often do not have this luxury and need your help to stay in school. Money is an important factor which provides the means to an education for these children. When a child's family does not have enough money to meet their basic needs, the little money they have is often spent on food and shelter, rather than school. Sometimes, these children must work jobs or consider early matrimony instead of going to school. Older children may drop out of school to work rather than pursuing college. Did you know that only 38% of Afghan children complete primary education?(Atlas of Millenium Development Goals, 2008) In Indonesia, there are nearly three million children in the labor force, many of them in dangerous occupations. (UNICEF, 2008) This year, while you are shopping for your own kids for school or college, please consider sponsoring a less fortunate child to help them with the cost of school supplies. Your generosity will enable a child to continue his or her education. Every child deserves an opportunity for a bright future. Sponsor a Child Donate to the Back to School Fund A Field Trip to Summer Camp Recently, twenty-five college students in Child Foundation's sponsorship program had the opportunity to take a four day recreational field trip to a summer camp in the Chaloos region of Iran near the Caspian Sea. This trip was made possible by the generosity of Child Foundation sponsors and donors, along with Kamraani Institute, who offered the use of their summer camp for the trip. For some of the participating students, this was the first time they had visited the Caspian Sea. After the students arrived at the camp, they enjoyed making potluck dinners at poolside, building a fire and listening to music. At the end of the night, the group surprised one of the students with a decorated graduation cake they had made for her. All the students enjoyed this special trip and took a lot of memorable pictures. Children of Prison Photos Last month, we received several requests for more information regarding the children of prison story featured in the August newsletter. Here are some delightful photos from the children's field trip to Mo'allem Educational Camp. For more details on this story, visit our website page, Latest News. Increase a Gift with Matching Funds You can easily double or triple your gift through Child Foundation's Matching Gift Program, which is a great opportunity to make your dollars go further. Your $100 donation to Child Foundation could become $200 or more without any additional cost to you. Many companies match the generosity of their employees with their own donation. Companies such as Microsoft, ATT, and Google have chosen to donate to Child Foundation. Ask your company today if they offer a matching gift program. Learn more about matching gift funds Upcoming Events Join us for these upcoming events: October 1: 11:00 AM- 1:00 PM, Hearts and Hands Together, IBM Beaverton, 15400 SW Koll Parkway, Beaverton, OR October 3-4, 1:00 PM: Mehregan Celebration at Irvine Great Park, Hanger 244, Perimeter Rd. and Marine Way- Irvine, CA This two-day event brings the sights, sounds and tastes of Ancient Persia to Orange County. The festival will feature Persian arts/crafts, dance, traditional music and food. No charge for admission. Did You Know? Did you know that the illiteracy rate in Afghanistan is 57% for males and 86% for females? (Wikipedia, 2008) Sponsor an Afghan child today Volunteers Needed Are you interested in becoming a volunteer? Volunteering is a great way to serve children in need. We are currently in need of the following volunteers: -Translators (translate Persian to English) -Grant writers -Social Networking specialists -Event fundraisers Child Foundation volunteers are eligible to earn a Presidential Service Award. Learn more about volunteering ***Food Gift Baskets For Families*** During the fall season, consider donating a food gift basket for a family in need. Food baskets cost $45 and will feed a family for a week or more. Each basket contains food staples such as rice, pasta, tea, oil, nuts and sugar. Donate a food basket today! . Who We Are . Donate to a Program .Other Ways to Donate .Volunteer Child Foundation is recognized by the following organizations: Purchase a gift card and support a child in need! The pictures on the cover of each card were created by children under Child Foundation's care. [Buy Card Here] Child Foundation is proud to announce a new partnership with Artistic Hub. Artistic Hub has donated their design and services by creating a custom storefront on Zazzle.com. This will provide a new revenue stream for Child
OT: Juniper SSL-VPN?
I didn't want to hijack the other VPN thread for this purpose, so here is a new thread. Anyone know much about how Juniper SSL-VPN networks work? Curious, --patrick
Re: OT: Juniper SSL-VPN?
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:39 PM, patrick keshishian pkesh...@gmail.com wrote: I didn't want to hijack the other VPN thread for this purpose, so here is a new thread. Anyone know much about how Juniper SSL-VPN networks work? It's a java based client that's run on the client-side and forwards specified packets through a tunnel interface. It's not that different from OpenVPN.
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
frantisek holop wrote: hmm, on Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:23:58PM +0200, Claudio Jeker said that like to prove. In the end many of fefe's test programs did not actually measure what he assumed they would. and he was open to get patches to remedy those problems. sarcasmand always showed total non-bias./sarcasm however, if you look at the tree, OpenBSD developers DID look at his test programs and for the ones that pointed out real issues, made considerable improve the performance in those areas. Oh, also in a lot of areas he didn't test. However, the goal was to do it better (in the broad sense of the term), not to top out on anyone's benchmark. I'm sure he updated his page to show the new results, right? general dislike of any benchmark in the world is also part of the openbsd culture just like some qualities of misc@ (although it's been quite quiet lately). I think dislike of benchmarks is a general attribute of most experienced people on the technical side of things. Love of and trust in benchmarks is a general attribute of managers who want to pretend they made a good decision rather than a wild-ass guess based on who has the cuter sales rep and/or buys the better lunch (or sells products missing on their resume). if the numbers were better, the general sentiment would be rather different i believe. naw. Once you learn to loath benchmarks and how people use them, you can't start to cite them without your tongue ripping itself out of your mouth and beating you senseless. Even when you find one that sorta looks good, you start thinking about all the edge (or straight down the middle) cases it misses. One of my favorite benchmarks: I was approached by a network consultant who told me he was going to need an emergency DHCP server for an office and asked if I could have it done by the next day. I told him I could have it done in 30 minutes. He couldn't believe me when I told him that, so I invited him to watch me. So, I walked him through an OpenBSD install, and twenty minutes after the target machine (a very modest 400MHz Celeron) was first powered on, it was ready to be plugged in and serve DHCP. Still doesn't mean much. :) See the flaws in my benchmark? Of course you do. So do I. (got cocky a couple weeks later, told someone I could do a basic OpenBSD install on one of these things in about five minutes. The machine I picked turned out to have a bad hard disk and did a massive number of disk retries before it finished loading. Ended up taking about seven minutes..and DID boot successfully. While I didn't hit my target, the spectator was still quite impressed :) linux is faster in many respects (just look at zaurus) so what? i dont use openbsd for its speed, but on the other hand i dont downplay the importance of measuring things up and comparing it with the others once in a while. i am sure speed in the end is of councern, otherwise the os woudln't be in C but, whatchamacallit, python. of course speed is a concern...to use one of my infamous car analogies, though...you need enough power and performance to get by safely. You don't want to drive a kiddie go-cart on the interstate freeway. However, once you can go twice the speed you ever need to go, what's the point in building a louder, more expensive and uncomfortable vehicle? Sure, some people go for that kinda thing, but that's why there are more than one kind of car on the market. (speaking of hypocracy, I do my darnedest to avoid being seen in a dull vehicle, though speed is only one definition of not dull :) Speed matters. Almost as much as some things, and nowhere near as much as others. some things can be measured actually quite easily: how much content a web server serves (not that much without sendfile()), how do the databases perform, etc, this is all benchmark in the end, and the programs doing the benchmarking are actually the daemons themselves. so there, everyone is benchmarking 24/7 :] What is also worth measuring is what the ultimate bottleneck is. It is entertaining to hear people discuss benchmarks and performance, and make decisions based on those criteria, then realize they are sitting behind a pipe so skinny that a ten year old version of OpenBSD on a 17 year old 486 could saturate the link many times over, with no prospects of upgrading past what a Pentium II could handle in the reasonable future. SOME people DO need to filter or host or otherwise use multi-gigabit links. However making bad decisions based on unlikely scaling concerns is silly. As I've told people many times, If you outgrow this, replacing it will be among the LEAST of your problems, look forward to it. Practically speaking, the people who need the performance at the edge of what OpenBSD can deliver usually are too busy to argue benchmarks. Nick.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 02:41:54PM +0200, Andri wrote: On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 12:04:54PM +0200, Iqigo Ortiz de Urbina wrote: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Jordi Espasa Clofent +2 from Euskadi and Catalunya, Spain, so to speak :) +3 from East Frisia! +1 from the Southern Pampas, Rio Grande Do Sul, Brazil. -- Christiano Farina HAESBAERT Do NOT send me html mail.
Participe na Roda do Ouro e ganhe até 114.000EUR
Caso tenha dificuldade em visualizar, por favor clique no link abaixo www.informacaobyweb.com/ReadersDigest.html Ao abrigo do Dec.Lei 67/98 de 26 de Outubro, o destinatario podera proceder ` rectificagco ou cancelamento dos seus dados, conforme o disposto nos artigos 10: e 11:. Se pretender remover o seu enderego de email, por favor no link abaixo http://www.informacaobyweb.com/unsubcribe/index.php?a=
Clarification for use of sticky-address in pf.conf
Hi misc,
I'm looking at how to apply the use of the stick-address option. Can
someone confirm for me that I only need to use the option for the
first pool based rule, and that any subsequent rule utilising that
same pool spec will also have the option applied ?
IE.
I have 2 rules as follows:
pass in log on $int_if \
route-to { ($ext_if1 $ext_gw1), ($ext_if2 $ext_gw2) } round-robin
sticky-address \
from any to any \
tag INT_INET_BAL
pass in log on $int_if \
route-to { ($ext_if1 $ext_gw1), ($ext_if2 $ext_gw2) } round-robin \
inet proto icmp from net_int to any icmp-type $icmp_types \
tag INT_INET_BAL
It's a syntax error to declare 'sticky-address' on that second rule.
Is that because the first rule's pool specification 'creates' the pool
with the sticky option enabled, and the second rule just 'matches'
that pool spec and uses it as the first rule created it ? Or will
that second rule not have the sticky-address option and I'm doing
something wrong ?
Cheers
Dave
Re: OT: Juniper SSL-VPN?
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Johan Beisser j...@caustic.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:39 PM, patrick keshishian pkesh...@gmail.com wrote: I didn't want to hijack the other VPN thread for this purpose, so here is a new thread. Anyone know much about how Juniper SSL-VPN networks work? It's a java based client that's run on the client-side and forwards specified packets through a tunnel interface. It's not that different from OpenVPN. ahhh... Do you know if there are any open-source clients that are able to connect through their service? I'm unable to google any specifics on what protocol they use, or rather what their java app does after it is launched. Is it safe to assume it is a closed and proprietary solution? I am hoping some clever person has figured out how to roll her own equivalent of their java app using openssl/s_client or similar. Thanks, --patrick
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni m...@dbolgheroni.eng.br wrote: On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Nick Holland wrote: Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to contribute. This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). I don't have a Paypal account (yet). If it's worth to trust him, I don't know, but I much prefer to donate $50 (although they will deduct 3.9% in my case, but at least OpenBSD doesn't have the CD cost) than to pay almost the triple to government, shipment, etc. Don't care if I don't get the CDs. Is it possible to OpenBSD to make profit for the project selling books or manuals? I don't know the costs or if it's worth (like CDs are better for the project than T-shirts, mugs, etc.). It's tax free here, and I think: if it's free here, maybe it's somewhere else. Teers, -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \ Perhaps you could make a donation and download the files? You get what you desire and you support the project. It wouldn't be as complete as the CDs, but you still get to contribute without paying huge taxes. I'm assuming your download rates/limits are reasonable, of course. -- Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict - Oh, why does everything I whip leave me?
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni m...@dbolgheroni.eng.brwrote: On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Nick Holland wrote: Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to contribute. This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). I don't have a Paypal account (yet). If it's worth to trust him, I don't know, but I much prefer to donate $50 (although they will deduct 3.9% in my case, but at least OpenBSD doesn't have the CD cost) than to pay almost the triple to government, shipment, etc. Don't care if I don't get the CDs. Is it possible to OpenBSD to make profit for the project selling books or manuals? I don't know the costs or if it's worth (like CDs are better for the project than T-shirts, mugs, etc.). It's tax free here, and I think: if it's free here, maybe it's somewhere else. I have the same concerns as well (i mean the shipping. F, i'll support the project - but not the shipping?). I did get the disc set, though, but.. it would be nice to be able to check out knowing how much i'm supposed to be paying for shipping. -jf -- In the meantime, here is your PSA: It's so hard to write a graphics driver that open-sourcing it would not help. -- Andrew Fear, Software Product Manager, NVIDIA Corporation http://kerneltrap.org/node/7228
Re: OT: Juniper SSL-VPN?
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 6:53 PM, patrick keshishian pkesh...@gmail.com wrote: ahhh... Do you know if there are any open-source clients that are able to connect through their service? I'm unable to google any specifics on what protocol they use, or rather what their java app does after it is launched. Is it safe to assume it is a closed and proprietary solution? Not as far as I know. To be honest, I've not researched it, but I know the java app OS specific (customised for Linux, MacOS, and Windows). I am hoping some clever person has figured out how to roll her own equivalent of their java app using openssl/s_client or similar. I doubt it.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni m...@dbolgheroni.eng.br wrote: Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to contribute. This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). Far be it from me to tell other people how to spend their money (usually), but someone who wanted the giving effectiveness of a CD purchase without paying hideous taxes or shipping could locate a non-profit where low taxes and shipping would apply, and buy it for them. This assumes that the purchaser could spare the actual physical product. -- Ed Ahlsen-Girard Ft. Walton Beach FL
Re: OT: Juniper SSL-VPN?
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:06:22 -0700, Johan Beisser wrote: Not as far as I know. To be honest, I've not researched it, but I know the java app OS specific (customised for Linux, MacOS, and Windows). Write Once - Run Anywhere, eh? Grinning, running and ducking! *** NOTE *** Please DO NOT CC me. I am subscribed to the list. Mail to the sender address that does not originate at the list server is tarpitted. The reply-to: address is provided for those who feel compelled to reply off list. Thankyou. Rod/ --- This life is not the real thing. It is not even in Beta. If it was, then OpenBSD would already have a man page for it.
Re: Defending OpenBSD Performance
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 01:43:27AM +0200, Robert wrote: | On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:15:27 +0200 | frantisek holop min...@obiit.org wrote: | | hmm, on Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:23:58PM +0200, Claudio Jeker said that | like to prove. In the end many of fefe's test programs did not | actually measure what he assumed they would. | | and he was open to get patches to remedy those problems. | | general dislike of any benchmark in the world is also part of the | openbsd culture just like some qualities of misc@ (although it's been | quite quiet lately). | | if the numbers were better, the general sentiment would | be rather different i believe. | | linux is faster in many respects (just look at zaurus) so what? | i dont use openbsd for its speed, but on the other hand i dont | downplay the importance of measuring things up and comparing it | with the others once in a while. i am sure speed in the end is | of councern, otherwise the os woudln't be in C but, whatchamacallit, | python. | | some things can be measured actually quite easily: how much content | a web server serves (not that much without sendfile()), how do the | databases perform, etc, this is all benchmark in the end, and the | programs doing the benchmarking are actually the daemons themselves. | so there, everyone is benchmarking 24/7 :] | | -f | | In the end it boils down to measuring the different OS on the hardware | you will use for the task they should fullfill, nothing else matters in | the end. I would say the most important thing is whether or not your solution is up to the task you hand it. Be it with MS-DOS 3.1 or with OpenBSD, I tend to want things to work and have enough scalability for (a bit more than) estimated future growth. Benchmarks are great to measure the effects of patches designed to improve performance, not to pick the tool for the job at hand. Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: OT: Juniper SSL-VPN?
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Rod Whitworth glis...@witworx.com wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:06:22 -0700, Johan Beisser wrote:
Not as far as I know. To be honest, I've not researched it, but I know
the java app OS specific (customised for Linux, MacOS, and Windows).
Write Once - Run Anywhere, eh?
Grinning, running and ducking!
Although I agree with that sentiment, I suspect the differences are to
account for how each OS handles things such as
/etc/{resolv.conf,hosts}, setting up interfaces, and other such
peculiarities that, as you can imagine, would, and do, vary from OS to
OS.
--patrick
