Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Andrew Smith
http://www.openbsd.org/policy.html

Scroll down to the section 'Permissions - the flip side' and consider the
consequences of the statements in paragraph 4.

This section is probably the biggest one that supports my view that GPL
cannot be recinded and after initiation and that all GPL code should be
carefully considered with regard to future use in GPL environments even by
the original author.

I am open to having that view changed if you have a more definitive source
of reference, however, it may well be the case that some of the flexibility
that may be present in under one regional boundary isn't present in another
region. To this end many licenses state that the licensing terms are in
accordance with 'California state law..' or whatever, by accepting the terms
you are therefore reducing ambiguity on the use of the license.

-Andy

-Original Message-
From: Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 05 April 2006 01:14
To: Andrew Smith
Cc: misc@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 00:15:02 +0100 Andrew Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 GPL cannot be revoked by the author and, what is more, a new version
 being classed as a 'derived work' would still under the terms of GPL
 be classed as GPL and the original author couldn't do anything about
 it.

Revoking is not involved here.  The copyright holder can do whatever he
or she wants with their code.  If I made something GPL, I can turn
around and make it BSD licensed, or close the source and not license
it at all, its up to me.  If you can still get your hands on the code
from when it was licensed under the GPL, then your copy is still under
the GPL, and you can do whatever the GPL allows.  But it has no impact
at all on future versions and how I choose to license them.

 - Linus faces this issue with future versions of Linux, he
 doesn't like GPL 3 and won't accept it but he can't take GPL 2 off
 Linux kernel since it is an evolving project and is derived from
 previous versions.

No, he can't take the GPL 2 off because hundreds of different people
own the copyright to GPL code in the kernel.  All of them would need to
agree to re-license it.

Adam



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Adam
On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:01:22 +0100 Andrew Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://www.openbsd.org/policy.html
 
 Scroll down to the section 'Permissions - the flip side' and consider
 the consequences of the statements in paragraph 4.
 
 This section is probably the biggest one that supports my view that
 GPL cannot be recinded and after initiation and that all GPL code
 should be carefully considered with regard to future use in GPL
 environments even by the original author.

You simply aren't listening.  Nobody is talking about recinding
anything.  This is very simple, and if you do not understand, then go
ask a lawyer.  The copyright owner can license their work under
whatever terms they choose.  Period.  End of story.

I can make up a different stupid license to release my code under every
day for a year, and none of the previous license terms have any effect
on me, or how I license it in the future.  It only has an impact on the
people licensing that code from me.  Licenses allow other people to do
things, the copyright holder can always do whatever they want, they
don't have to agree to the terms of their own license.

Adam



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Darrin Chandler

Andrew Smith wrote:


http://www.openbsd.org/policy.html

Scroll down to the section 'Permissions - the flip side' and consider the
consequences of the statements in paragraph 4.

This section is probably the biggest one that supports my view that GPL
cannot be recinded and after initiation and that all GPL code should be
carefully considered with regard to future use in GPL environments even by
the original author.

I am open to having that view changed if you have a more definitive source
of reference, however, it may well be the case that some of the flexibility
that may be present in under one regional boundary isn't present in another
region. To this end many licenses state that the licensing terms are in
accordance with 'California state law..' or whatever, by accepting the terms
you are therefore reducing ambiguity on the use of the license.
 



Rescind and revoke are not the issue here. These are straw men.

The original author(s) can *also* offer their works under *other* 
licenses in *addition*. There's a long history of copyrighted work 
licensed under multiple, concurrent, non-exclusive licenses.


That's easiest if it's always been done that way for a given work, or if 
there's a single author to make the decision without consulting anyone 
else. This isn't practical (or even possible) for projects with hundreds 
or thousands of contributors, but it's very possible for projects with a 
small number of contributors. Asking won't hurt. Some will be adamant 
about being GPL only. Others really won't mind offering it under a BSD 
license as well.


--
Darrin Chandler|  Phoenix BSD Users Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
http://www.stilyagin.com/  |



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Arnaud Bergeron
On 4/5/06, Andrew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://www.openbsd.org/policy.html

 Scroll down to the section 'Permissions - the flip side' and consider the
 consequences of the statements in paragraph 4.

 This section is probably the biggest one that supports my view that GPL
 cannot be recinded and after initiation and that all GPL code should be
 carefully considered with regard to future use in GPL environments even by
 the original author.

This section specifies that someone elsemay alter the copyright
notices on files but that won't change who owns the copyright.  It is
the same with the license, someone else may change the written
licensing terms but the original license still applies.  However
according to international copyright law, the author (or more
specifically the copyright holder) of any work may change the
distribution terms at his whim.

In the case of the GPL, this means the author of GPL program X may
decide to remove the source from the internet and sell it binary-only
for 5K$.  The only thing the GPL will do in this case is that people
who obtained the source before it was pulled can continue to use and
distribute it under the GPL as the author cannot revoke this license
from them.

No license can restrict the freedom of the copyright holder to do as
he please with his work.  However, with most GNU/GPL projects, there
are hundreds or thousands of contributors and each one of them would
need to agree to a license change to change the license of the whole
project.  That is why most big projects can't change their liccense.

Back to the original topic,

If the project you are talking about is yours (meaning you wrote it),
ga ahead, change the license, you can.  If not, you must ask each
person who has the copyright to a part of the project if they agree to
change the license.

If what you are talking about is rather if you can replace some GPL
file by an equivalent one but BSD licensed file, the answer is yes (as
long as you don't copy-paste).  The only caveat is that as long as
there is even ONE GPL file in the project, the project has to be
redistributed under the GPL as a whole.

As for your second question, a file that is comprised of only an
'#include shit.h' satement should be easy enough to replace (see
Ted's suggestion) and you don't have to change the name of the file
(at least with the GPL).


 I am open to having that view changed if you have a more definitive source
 of reference, however, it may well be the case that some of the flexibility
 that may be present in under one regional boundary isn't present in another
 region. To this end many licenses state that the licensing terms are in
 accordance with 'California state law..' or whatever, by accepting the terms
 you are therefore reducing ambiguity on the use of the license.

 -Andy

[snip]

Arnaud
--
i think we should rewrite the kernel in java since it has good
support for threads. - Ted Unangst



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Daniel Ouellet

Please guys, like I put in my original questions.

Quote
I don't want this to turn into a flame war however.

If that's where it might be going, don't answer.
Quote /

Lets stick to the essence of the question. So far I got one good answer 
from Ted. Not sure yet that I fully understand it, or the process of it, 
but I am not interested at changing licenses from the author, etc.


Bottom line is this!

If I see a GNU software that I like and the structure of it makes sense, 
or I think it makes sense, but I don't want to correct the bugs in it 
because it will stay under GNU. At what point, or how can it be replace 
by a BSD one where it's need at the same time to be fully compatible 
with the GNU one, meaning the internal structure and the interface to 
the world of it needs to stay the exactly the same.


How can some draw the line between be able to write your own BSD version 
using the same internal structures and in many cases the same function 
calls needed internally with the same in/out interface to the world and 
be able to have it under BSD instead of GNU?


Does someone needs to have module in between their own applications to 
the outside world that may be going away in a few years to kill the GNU 
link between the internal structures, etc. Obviously this add overhead 
that makes it not so efficients and prone to bug as well.


That's the essence of the question. I really don't care about the author 
right to change the licenses, if he didn't already, he/she never will do it.


But the software itself might be still worth to be BSD.

That's where I want to get the answer and the knowhow if that's even 
possible.


How someone can and needs to respect the license and will of the 
original author, but use the idea and standard use in it to make a BSD 
version?


How?

For anything else place just drop it. That have been beat up to death so 
many times, lets not make it onces more please!


That's not why I asked the question and it is sure not what I need to 
know either.


Many thanks for your inside on the subject if any!

Regards,

Daniel



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Donald J. Ankney

On Apr 5, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Daniel Ouellet wrote:




If I see a GNU software that I like and the structure of it makes  
sense, or I think it makes sense, but I don't want to correct the  
bugs in it because it will stay under GNU. At what point, or how  
can it be replace by a BSD one where it's need at the same time to  
be fully compatible with the GNU one, meaning the internal  
structure and the interface to the world of it needs to stay the  
exactly the same.


How can some draw the line between be able to write your own BSD  
version using the same internal structures and in many cases the  
same function calls needed internally with the same in/out  
interface to the world and be able to have it under BSD instead of  
GNU?




The code you write is owned by you. You are free to license it  
however you see fit; you can release your code as BSD-licensed  
patches to the original code, but you cannot alter the license on  
other people's code. 



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Arnaud Bergeron
On 4/5/06, Daniel Ouellet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Back to the original topic,
 
  If what you are talking about is rather if you can replace some GPL
  file by an equivalent one but BSD licensed file, the answer is yes (as
  long as you don't copy-paste).

 But what does that really mean. It sure is NOT that I can sit there and
 retype a printed copy of the software and then release it BSD for sure!

That is copy-paste for practical purposes.

 That's really the part I am having problem with. I am not a layers, I
 don't want layers discussions, etc. In practical term, how can this be
 done and what's the line here that makes it either BSD or GNU for stuff
 you write that are inspired may be from GNU? Is code, meaning moving of
 data, processing of data is it, but that you can still use the same data
 structure because it make sense and reeds to be compatible? I don't know
 and I am trying to find out. If you retype the same structure does it
 then make it GNU?

The idea is to see what it does and then do the same with your own ideas.

For example, if you have a function that takes a string argument and
reverse the characters in it under GPL.  You take what it does
(reverse character in a string) and re-implement it with your own
code.  You can keep the same interface to the function (meaning name
and parameters) as long as you impelment the functionality yourself.

As for data structures, I am not certain but I tend to agree with Ted
meaning they are not copyrightable and you can copy them.  (I know I
did with some)

 I don't know, what's the rules, how can it be done if even possible.

 Like many times we see people say inspired from GNU code, but it's BSD
 code. What's the inspired is define at. How far does it goes?

Inspired means you see a good idea and you do the same general idea
without using the exact same lines of code.

 That's my question.

  The only caveat is that as long as
  there is even ONE GPL file in the project, the project has to be
  redistributed under the GPL as a whole.

 That I understand very well. But as stated below

  As for your second question, a file that is comprised of only an
  '#include shit.h' satement should be easy enough to replace (see
  Ted's suggestion) and you don't have to change the name of the file
  (at least with the GPL).

 So what this really mean?

It means that a file with only #include statements is hardly
copyrightable and can be copied at will.

Also file names are not copyrightable and you are not requiered to use
new names.  The copyright  (and consequently the license) applies to
the code and only the code.

 Sorry guys, I also have some difficulty at time to understand the nuance
 of the language, so I may look think at times, not my fault. I try
 however. I need to understand this if only for myself, but I guess it
 may be useful for someone else as well.

 Thanks and I am very sorry for the subject, I know this is a very
 sensitive subject but I really don't want this to be a battle of merit
 on the licenses, etc.

Don't worry this topic has not even been approched yet, and I intend
to keep it that way.

 I am only interested on how a GNU project can become a BSD project and
 the process and step in getting there, if that's even possible.

In your case it is not really changing a GNU project to a BSD one but
rather rewriting a GNU one under a BSD license.  Correct me if i'm
wrong.

 Thanks

 Daniel


Arnaud
--
i think we should rewrite the kernel in java since it has good
support for threads. - Ted Unangst



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Dave Anderson
** Reply to message from Daniel Ouellet [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed,
05 Apr 2006 15:25:52 -0400

 Back to the original topic,
 
 If what you are talking about is rather if you can replace some GPL
 file by an equivalent one but BSD licensed file, the answer is yes (as
 long as you don't copy-paste).

But what does that really mean. It sure is NOT that I can sit there and 
retype a printed copy of the software and then release it BSD for sure!

That's really the part I am having problem with. I am not a layers, I 
don't want layers discussions, etc. In practical term, how can this be 
done and what's the line here that makes it either BSD or GNU for stuff 
you write that are inspired may be from GNU? Is code, meaning moving of 
data, processing of data is it, but that you can still use the same data 
structure because it make sense and reeds to be compatible? I don't know 
and I am trying to find out. If you retype the same structure does it 
then make it GNU?

I don't know, what's the rules, how can it be done if even possible.

You may need a so-called clean room reimplementation -- where one
team of people analyzes a piece of code and writes documentation for it
and a separate team uses that documentation to write an equivalent
piece of software (and is very careful to never look at the original
code).  AFAIK if this is done properly the new code is free of the old
copyright, but I am definitely not an expert on the subject.

Dave

-- 
Dave Anderson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Daniel Ouellet

Arnaud Bergeron wrote:

For example, if you have a function that takes a string argument and
reverse the characters in it under GPL.  You take what it does
(reverse character in a string) and re-implement it with your own
code.  You can keep the same interface to the function (meaning name
and parameters) as long as you impelment the functionality yourself.


That's good to know. Exact same functions name and parameters can stay 
as is as long as content is different. So, that's one thing clear now.



As for data structures, I am not certain but I tend to agree with Ted
meaning they are not copyrightable and you can copy them.  (I know I
did with some)


But can it really? Someone could argue that the structure is part of the 
intellectual property of that design and as such is under GNU. Doesn't 
mean two different users in two part of the world can't come up with the 
exact same structure because it make sense, but again, is it proper to 
do so? Can it really be that the exact same structure use keep the same 
name, variable types, order, etc. And then use by different function or 
implementations and then be OK to use and NOT step over the right of the 
original author(s) then by doing so?



Inspired means you see a good idea and you do the same general idea
without using the exact same lines of code.


Thanks, that's two clear answer now.


It means that a file with only #include statements is hardly
copyrightable and can be copied at will.


Can it really? I guess if in the end you make it KNF compliant and the 
order of the various includes are changed, but are the exact same name, 
including names form the original project, it's OK?


If so, that would be the third rules then.


Also file names are not copyrightable and you are not requiered to use
new names.  The copyright  (and consequently the license) applies to
the code and only the code.


That would be the forth one at this time.


Don't worry this topic has not even been approched yet, and I intend
to keep it that way.


Thank you!!!


In your case it is not really changing a GNU project to a BSD one but
rather rewriting a GNU one under a BSD license.  Correct me if i'm
wrong.


Yes and making it a drop replacement as it is process along the way, AND 
keep fully compatibility with third party modules, so meaning obviously 
it can't be fully BSD until the last files is replace, but part of it 
are replace by BSD files and code as it is progressing however. But 
keeping the line between the right of the authors and the replacement 
BSD version.


That's what I am struggling with.

Obviously if no one would care about licenses, it wouldn't be a 
question, but that's wrong. How to proceed to the end goal and 
respecting the original Author wishes and license of choice AND make the 
transition to a BSD final version.


Thanks.



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Constantine A. Murenin
On 05/04/06, Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 00:15:02 +0100 Andrew Smith
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  - Linus faces this issue with future versions of Linux, he
  doesn't like GPL 3 and won't accept it but he can't take GPL 2 off
  Linux kernel since it is an evolving project and is derived from
  previous versions.

 No, he can't take the GPL 2 off because hundreds of different people
 own the copyright to GPL code in the kernel.  All of them would need to
 agree to re-license it.

Relicensing, as people have mentioned, is rather difficult with big
projects that have many contributors. But for the sake of the
argument, it must be added that it's not something that cannot be done
entirely.

Mozilla.org, for instance, recently have completed the relicensing
process such that now most or all mozilla.org code is now available
under your choice of three licences.

However, it must be added that it took mozilla a very, very long time
to do this process with one very dedicated volunteer, gerv. (The
process was stuck several times because it was not possible to locate
some contributors etc.)

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/gerv/archives/2006/03/relicensing_complete.html



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Constantine A. Murenin
On 05/04/06, Daniel Ouellet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It means that a file with only #include statements is hardly
  copyrightable and can be copied at will.

 Can it really? I guess if in the end you make it KNF compliant and the
 order of the various includes are changed, but are the exact same name,
 including names form the original project, it's OK?

Why do you need to change the order of #include's? This is plain
boring, only an idiot would waste someone's time arguing that the
'#include' statements from their work are stolen. :)

And at the end of the day, it's not a bad idea to order includes in
the abc order, and changing the order just to change it is not
something that one should do...



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-05 Thread Constantine A. Murenin
If you want a good insight on the issue of legal implications of
creating derivative/non-derivative works with functionality that is
present in existing implementations, I suggest that you follow the SCO
vs. Linux lawsuit, the arguments around the issue are very relevant to
your question.

For what it's worth, you could even try to revamp the old ATT claim
against BSD.

Here is where you might want to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL_v._BSDi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_v._IBM_Linux_lawsuit

P.S. If you don't know already: SCO is the company that now has more
lawyers than it has hackers.



GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-04 Thread Daniel Ouellet
I am not sure that this is a simple question, but what's the rules if 
any, or guide line someone can go under to replace files and code with 
BSD type in a project for example.


I need some help understanding what's right and what's wrong and where 
the line is if any and what's proper and what's not.


Let say that you have a GNU project and that you need to keep full 
compatibility with the system calls, in/out, same function names and in 
some cases structure, but the way the process is done is different.


At what point is it correct and possible to ripe a GNU file and replace 
it with a BSD file if possible.


Can that be done?

What about if a file only have include files left in it, but is still 
under a GNU license. I guess it can't be replace right?


Example would:

 /* 
 * license text
 * bla bla bla
 *
 */

#include shit.h

and shit.h is a file from that project but the content of shit.h have 
changed or will changed.


Is that burn in for ever in it's life and the only way to do this would 
be to have a new file called newshit.h and then call it from ever 
everywhere shit.h was called from.


I hope my question make sense, I am trying to understand that process if 
that's even possible to understand it somewhat.


This is very confusing to me. Reading on the subject doesn't provide 
clear guideline someone could go by if any.


I don't want this to turn into a flame war however.

If that's where it might be going, don't answer.

I am just trying to understand the process and how it's getting done 
properly. I see on Google that some project were GNU and then got switch 
to BSD after some part that were include in the original project were 
replace by other BSD version. So, no more GNU was there, so it didn't 
apply anymore.


Google give me huge results on the subject, but so far, nothing clean 
that I can understand properly. SO, I guess it's not an easy question.


I hope I am not offending anyone asking that question!

Thanks

Daniel



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-04 Thread Nick Guenther
On 4/4/06, Daniel Ouellet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am not sure that this is a simple question, but what's the rules if
 any, or guide line someone can go under to replace files and code with
 BSD type in a project for example.

 I need some help understanding what's right and what's wrong and where
 the line is if any and what's proper and what's not.

 Let say that you have a GNU project and that you need to keep full
 compatibility with the system calls, in/out, same function names and in
 some cases structure, but the way the process is done is different.

 At what point is it correct and possible to ripe a GNU file and replace
 it with a BSD file if possible.

 Can that be done?

 What about if a file only have include files left in it, but is still
 under a GNU license. I guess it can't be replace right?

 Example would:

   /* 
   * license text
   * bla bla bla
   *
   */

 #include shit.h

 and shit.h is a file from that project but the content of shit.h have
 changed or will changed.

 Is that burn in for ever in it's life and the only way to do this would
 be to have a new file called newshit.h and then call it from ever
 everywhere shit.h was called from.

 I hope my question make sense, I am trying to understand that process if
 that's even possible to understand it somewhat.

 I am just trying to understand the process and how it's getting done
 properly. I see on Google that some project were GNU and then got switch
 to BSD after some part that were include in the original project were
 replace by other BSD version. So, no more GNU was there, so it didn't
 apply anymore.

 Google give me huge results on the subject, but so far, nothing clean
 that I can understand properly. SO, I guess it's not an easy question.

 I hope I am not offending anyone asking that question!


My understanding is that the owner of the copyright can change the
license at any time, but that that change only applies to new
versions.

So:

if you are forking someone else's GNU code then you can't arbitrarily
make it BSD (because of the restrictions in the GPL). I think, though,
that it doesn't work the other way; the very open BSD license allows
for someone to take BSD code, make a change (or none?) and relabel it
all GPL.

if you are the original author of the code (and you haven't given the
rights away) then you can change the license at any time, but that
change only applies to new versions. You can take down old versions
but it's still perfectly legal for anyone with a copy of it to post it
and continue to work on it under the old license.

Correct me if I'm wrong!

-Nick



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-04 Thread Darrin Chandler

Nick Guenther wrote:


My understanding is that the owner of the copyright can change the
license at any time, but that that change only applies to new
versions.

So:

if you are forking someone else's GNU code then you can't arbitrarily
make it BSD (because of the restrictions in the GPL). I think, though,
that it doesn't work the other way; the very open BSD license allows
for someone to take BSD code, make a change (or none?) and relabel it
all GPL.

if you are the original author of the code (and you haven't given the
rights away) then you can change the license at any time, but that
change only applies to new versions. You can take down old versions
but it's still perfectly legal for anyone with a copy of it to post it
and continue to work on it under the old license.

Correct me if I'm wrong!

-Nick
 



IANAL, but I believe the copyright holder can offer the work under any 
license they wish, even without making a new version, as long as the 
licenses are non-exclusive (i.e., if I've licensed my work to you 
exclusively, then I can NOT also license it under GPL or BSD.) There are 
examples out there of multiple simultaneous licenses.


So, the trick here might be to ask the author(s) if they'd be willing to 
put it out under BSD as well as GPL. Many open source people use GPL by 
default and are not fanatics about it either way. Worth an email...


--
Darrin Chandler|  Phoenix BSD Users Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
http://www.stilyagin.com/  |



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-04 Thread Andrew Smith
No, I don't think this is quite correct.

GPL cannot be revoked by the author and, what is more, a new version being
classed as a 'derived work' would still under the terms of GPL be classed as
GPL and the original author couldn't do anything about it. - Linus faces
this issue with future versions of Linux, he doesn't like GPL 3 and won't
accept it but he can't take GPL 2 off Linux kernel since it is an evolving
project and is derived from previous versions.

If the author, however, stated that the code could be used within GPL
projects with a primary license being an alternative to GPL and that the use
of the software within GPL projects was under the proviso that the rights of
the author and the original license weren't broken then GPL couldn't be
enforced... strictly speaking this may mean that you wouldn't be strictly
legitimate in using the software in many GPL license scenarios since the
licensing terms conflict, however, some 'open source' communities don't seem
to care about that as much as we do.

-Andy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Nick Guenther
Sent: 04 April 2006 23:49
To: OpenBSD-Misc
Subject: Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

On 4/4/06, Daniel Ouellet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am not sure that this is a simple question, but what's the rules if
 any, or guide line someone can go under to replace files and code with
 BSD type in a project for example.

 I need some help understanding what's right and what's wrong and where
 the line is if any and what's proper and what's not.

 Let say that you have a GNU project and that you need to keep full
 compatibility with the system calls, in/out, same function names and in
 some cases structure, but the way the process is done is different.

 At what point is it correct and possible to ripe a GNU file and replace
 it with a BSD file if possible.

 Can that be done?

 What about if a file only have include files left in it, but is still
 under a GNU license. I guess it can't be replace right?

 Example would:

   /* 
   * license text
   * bla bla bla
   *
   */

 #include shit.h

 and shit.h is a file from that project but the content of shit.h have
 changed or will changed.

 Is that burn in for ever in it's life and the only way to do this would
 be to have a new file called newshit.h and then call it from ever
 everywhere shit.h was called from.

 I hope my question make sense, I am trying to understand that process if
 that's even possible to understand it somewhat.

 I am just trying to understand the process and how it's getting done
 properly. I see on Google that some project were GNU and then got switch
 to BSD after some part that were include in the original project were
 replace by other BSD version. So, no more GNU was there, so it didn't
 apply anymore.

 Google give me huge results on the subject, but so far, nothing clean
 that I can understand properly. SO, I guess it's not an easy question.

 I hope I am not offending anyone asking that question!


My understanding is that the owner of the copyright can change the
license at any time, but that that change only applies to new
versions.

So:

if you are forking someone else's GNU code then you can't arbitrarily
make it BSD (because of the restrictions in the GPL). I think, though,
that it doesn't work the other way; the very open BSD license allows
for someone to take BSD code, make a change (or none?) and relabel it
all GPL.

if you are the original author of the code (and you haven't given the
rights away) then you can change the license at any time, but that
change only applies to new versions. You can take down old versions
but it's still perfectly legal for anyone with a copy of it to post it
and continue to work on it under the old license.

Correct me if I'm wrong!

-Nick



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-04 Thread Adam
On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 00:15:02 +0100 Andrew Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 GPL cannot be revoked by the author and, what is more, a new version
 being classed as a 'derived work' would still under the terms of GPL
 be classed as GPL and the original author couldn't do anything about
 it.

Revoking is not involved here.  The copyright holder can do whatever he
or she wants with their code.  If I made something GPL, I can turn
around and make it BSD licensed, or close the source and not license
it at all, its up to me.  If you can still get your hands on the code
from when it was licensed under the GPL, then your copy is still under
the GPL, and you can do whatever the GPL allows.  But it has no impact
at all on future versions and how I choose to license them.

 - Linus faces this issue with future versions of Linux, he
 doesn't like GPL 3 and won't accept it but he can't take GPL 2 off
 Linux kernel since it is an evolving project and is derived from
 previous versions.

No, he can't take the GPL 2 off because hundreds of different people
own the copyright to GPL code in the kernel.  All of them would need to
agree to re-license it.

Adam



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-04 Thread Stuart Henderson
On 2006/04/05 00:15, Andrew Smith wrote:
 GPL cannot be revoked by the author

Cannot be revoked but can be re-licenced by the author under
another license. Where there's more than one author, all must agree
to the change.

This leads to dual-licensed code having things like
http://www.digium.com/disclaimer.txt for submitters. Yeuch.



Re: GNU license files rules replacement guidelines with BSD one

2006-04-04 Thread Ted Unangst
On 4/4/06, Daniel Ouellet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Let say that you have a GNU project and that you need to keep full
 compatibility with the system calls, in/out, same function names and in
 some cases structure, but the way the process is done is different.

 At what point is it correct and possible to ripe a GNU file and replace
 it with a BSD file if possible.

 Can that be done?

 What about if a file only have include files left in it, but is still
 under a GNU license. I guess it can't be replace right?

if there is code in the header file, it can be copyrighted.  however,
i don't believe interfaces for the most part can be.

if you want to play it safe:
find a partner.  write down there is a function called foo taking 2
int arguments.  there is a struct called bar with fields a, b and c. 
slide paper across desk to partner; tell him to start typing.