Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

The following patch from Microsoft seems to restore functionality. Will see in 
the following hours. The denial of service remains as a problem on mountd. Will 
get a spare pc asap and check ktrace.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4088776/windows-10-update-kb4088776

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Roderick]

On Sun, 22 Apr 2018, Rupert Gallagher wrote:


Bloatware is a luxury I cannot afford on embedded systems with limited
resources where every KB and CPU cycle is accounted for. I would rather
submit my recipe for a proper samba source configuration and have the
maintainer do the compiling of a flavored version, but I already had
negative feedback. The maintainer is dogmatic on having an obese package
instead of a lean one that delivers the same functionality without the
extra fat.


It would be nice to have meager packages, it is nice not to have to
compile and have everything served as package.

But speacially if you are dealing with embedded systems,
it is better you compile things yourself. You can use the packages
not for installing, but for inspecting the patches.

Respecting NFS: I had long ago compatibility problems between
OpenBSD and FreeBSD: it worked at the beginning, but was not reliable,
it hang when transfering (copying) big files. I do not remember
details anymore, where the server and where the client, configuration.

Rodrigo.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Mihai Popescu]

For the OP with NFS problems: I think it is better to pay for
consultancy and stop talking to yourself on misc@.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[lists]

Sun, 22 Apr 2018 03:30:50 -0400 Rupert Gallagher 
> Read again, you will find everything you need to reproduce the problem.

Rupert, YOU have problems reproducing - PEBKAC your end.  NFS works here.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 08:32, Otto Moerbeek  wrote:

> We have gone through this before. Some packages need some libraries that are 
> distributed as part of the base X install. There is no harm in that. You do 
> not need to install the server part of X of that makes you feel better. -Otto

Bloatware is a luxury I cannot afford on embedded systems with limited 
resources where every KB and CPU cycle is accounted for. I would rather submit 
my recipe for a proper samba source configuration and have the maintainer do 
the compiling of a flavored version, but I already had negative feedback. The 
maintainer is dogmatic on having an obese package instead of a lean one that 
delivers the same functionality without the extra fat.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 08:17, Otto Moerbeek  wrote:

> In that case ktracing mountd might help (as well as (packet captures) to see 
> what is going on.

Will get back with the results.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 05:27,  wrote:

>  You seem to have some problems understanding feedback, here is some help. 
> Cut the crap already. How about dmesg first, then proper problem report?  
> @protonmail.com>

@protonmail.com>> Give clear instructions on how to reproduce the problem.

Read again, you will find everything you need to reproduce the problem. Since 
you are a bit slow, here is how to do it.

1. Open up you obsd console.
2. Kill mountd.
3. Run "doas mountd -d"
4. Open up your updated windows 10
5. Mount a NFS share
6. See that mountd -d crashes without warnings or errors

Got it? Now you can do your thing.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Otto Moerbeek]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 07:33:06PM -0400, Rupert Gallagher wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 17:38, IL Ka  wrote:
> 
> > I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients. 
> > People use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases. Samba should 
> > be pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses.
> 
> I use it on osx: it is a crippled version of the original that causes endless 
> problems with file permissions. Rock solid for the rest.
> 
> I would use samba on obsd, but its package requires x11, believe it or not. I 
> mentioned the problem in misc@ and received insults by someone occlusive and 
> dogmatic, so I will not raise the problem again. I am compiling a proper 
> version, but it will take days on the given hardware...

We have gone through this before. Some packages need some libraries
that are distributed as part of the base X install.  There is no harm
in that. You do not need to install the server part of X of that makes
you feel better.

-Otto

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Otto Moerbeek]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 07:20:18PM -0400, Rupert Gallagher wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 19:58, Otto Moerbeek  wrote:
> 
> > What do you mean by "the server crashes"? Does the complete OS freeze? Or 
> > is the OS still working apart from NFS? Did one of te NFS related daemons 
> > (nfsd, mountd, portmap) die?
> 
> I mean that the mountd server crashed.
> I had "doas mountd -d" up and was reading its output. When it crashed it just 
> returned the shell prompt. No warning, no errors. I have to debug a server in 
> debug mode that does not bother leaving debug information...

In that case ktracing mountd might help (as well as (packet
captures) to see what is going on.

-Otto

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[lists]

Sat, 21 Apr 2018 19:25:13 -0400 Rupert Gallagher 
> Nonsense.

Hi Rupert,

You seem to have some problems understanding feedback, here is some help.
Cut the crap already.  How about dmesg first, then proper problem report?

Kind regards,
Anton Lazarov

Comfortably Dumb (the misc song):
http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#60d

"Relax.
The list needs a dmesg first.
Just the basic facts
Stop whining between your blurts."

OpenBSD Problem Reports:
https://www.openbsd.org/report.html

"Always provide as much information as possible.

Try to pinpoint the exact problem.

Give clear instructions on how to reproduce the problem.

Try to describe it with as much accuracy and non-confusing terminology
as possible, especially if it is not easy to reproduce.

Describing problems by saying "it crashes" or "I get strange interrupt
issues on this one box that I built" are of no use.

Communicate with others (on the mailing lists or any other forum where
knowledgeable users congregate) to confirm that the problem is new and
preferably repeatable.

Please try to make sure it is not a local problem created by using
broken or unsupported hardware, or by using unsupported build options
or software."

OpenBSD Mailing Lists:
https://www.openbsd.org/mail.html

"Stay on topic:
Please keep the subject of the post relevant to users of OpenBSD.

Include important information:
Don't waste everyone's time with a hopelessly incomplete question.

No one other than you has the information needed to resolve your
problem, it is better to provide more information than needed than not
enough detail.

All questions should include at least the version of OpenBSD.

Any hardware-related questions should mention the platform (i386,
amd64, etc.) and provide a full dmesg(8).

Hardware model numbers, unfortunately, don't indicate much about the
actual content of a particular machine or accessory, and are useless to
anyone who doesn't have that exact machine sitting where they can
easily recognize it.

The dmesg(8) output tells us exactly what is IN your machine, not what
stickers are on the outside."

sendbug(1) - report a bug in OpenBSD:
https://man.openbsd.org/sendbug

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[IL Ka]

> I use it on osx: it is a crippled version of the original that causes
endless problems with file permissions. Rock solid for the rest.
File permissions are always hard to maintain between Windows and *nix,
because of Windows ACL's and posix permissions differences.

One person on this list mentioned that SMB is slower than NFS. I googled
for that and it seems to be true,
but article was about SMB2. It could be that SMB3 (supported by Win10) is
slightly faster, need to check.
See "SMB3 Multi-Channel"  experimental feature: https://www.samba.org/samba/
history/samba-4.4.0.html

>  but its package requires x11,

I do not see any X11 here, but some dependencies are strange:
xx4$ pkg_info -f samba | grep "@depend"
@depend converters/libiconv:libiconv-*:libiconv-1.14p3
@depend databases/openldap,-main:openldap-client-*:openldap-client-2.4.45p4
@depend databases/tdb:tdb->=1.3.14:tdb-1.3.15
@depend devel/gettext:gettext-*:gettext-0.19.8.1p1
@depend devel/jansson:jansson-*:jansson-2.10
@depend devel/libexecinfo:libexecinfo-*:libexecinfo-0.3p0v0
@depend devel/libtalloc:libtalloc->=2.1.9:libtalloc-2.1.11
@depend net/avahi,-main:avahi-*:avahi-0.7p1
@depend net/py-dnspython:py-dnspython-*:py-dnspython-1.15.0
@depend net/samba,-ldb:ldb->=1.2.3:ldb-1.2.3p0
@depend net/samba,-util:samba-util->=4.7.6:samba-util-4.7.6
@depend print/cups,-libs:cups-libs-*:cups-libs-2.2.6
@depend security/gnutls:gnutls-*:gnutls-3.5.18
@depend security/openpam:openpam-*:openpam-20141014
@depend sysutils/gamin,-main:gamin-*:gamin-0.1.10p23

Why do I need OpenLDAP if I do not have domain?
What for should I use CUPS if I do not use Samba printing server?
Same with avahi which is zeroconf

Samba does not have any FLAVORs, unfortunatelly.

Probably, you could contact port maintainers and ask them for permission
to create several flavors of samba if you have time to create patch.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 17:38, IL Ka  wrote:

> I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients. People 
> use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases. Samba should be 
> pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses.

I use it on osx: it is a crippled version of the original that causes endless 
problems with file permissions. Rock solid for the rest.

I would use samba on obsd, but its package requires x11, believe it or not. I 
mentioned the problem in misc@ and received insults by someone occlusive and 
dogmatic, so I will not raise the problem again. I am compiling a proper 
version, but it will take days on the given hardware...

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 19:58, Otto Moerbeek  wrote:

> What do you mean by "the server crashes"? Does the complete OS freeze? Or is 
> the OS still working apart from NFS? Did one of te NFS related daemons (nfsd, 
> mountd, portmap) die?

I mean that the mountd server crashed.
I had "doas mountd -d" up and was reading its output. When it crashed it just 
returned the shell prompt. No warning, no errors. I have to debug a server in 
debug mode that does not bother leaving debug information...

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 18:09,  wrote:

> Hi Ilya, If it was humble you'd keep it to yourself and not bother 
> contemplating, or otherwise using the mailing list to think out loud what 
> need not say. Kind regards, Anton Lazarov

Nonsense. Is a Turing award lecture worth publishing? It certainly is. So read 
this one: "The humble programmer" by Dijksta.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Otto Moerbeek]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 10:09:38AM +0100, Stuart Henderson wrote:

> > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher  wrote:
> > 
> > > This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10
> > > pro" 1709 clients.
> > >
> > > The obsd nfs server had a single share:
> > >
> > > /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0
> > >
> > > When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the
> > > network to find the resource. This is what happens:
> > >
> > > 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources;
> > > 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors;
> > > 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not
> > > responding;
> > > 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server
> > > crashes.
> > >
> > > The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the
> > > client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share 
> > > is
> > > to type in the path, without browsing.
> > >
> > > When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors.
> > >
> > > The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should not
> > > crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics.
> 
> Packet captures from broken and working clients would be a good start
> to figuring out what's going on.

What do you mean by "the server crashes"? Does the complete OS freeze?
Or is the OS still working apart from NFS?  Did one of te NFS related
daemons (nfsd, mountd, portmap) die?

-Otto

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[lists]

Sat, 21 Apr 2018 18:38:11 +0300 IL Ka 
> >  I mean sponsors who pay for projects and compatibility updates. I also  
> mean broader user base.
> 
> IMHO:
> To increase userbase and attract
> serious sponsors attention, OpenBSD needs to be converted
> to "friendly-for-non-IT-people" OS like Ubuntu.

Hi Ilya,

If it was humble you'd keep it to yourself and not bother contemplating,
or otherwise using the mailing list to think out loud what need not say.

Kind regards,
Anton Lazarov

> Do you want to have polkit and Systemd in base system?:)
> 
> It seems than in obsd you should either investigate issue
> by reading source code and using debugger or trace,
> or write to bugs@ and wait for developer answer.
> 
> I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients.
> People use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases.
> Samba should be pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Consus]

On 18:38 Sat 21 Apr, IL Ka wrote:
> >  I mean sponsors who pay for projects and compatibility updates. I also
> > mean broader user base.
> 
> I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients.
> People use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases.
> Samba should be pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses.

Samba is also very very slow if you consider 10G/100G networks. Support
for Multi-Channel is still marked as experimental and may kill your data.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[IL Ka]

>  I mean sponsors who pay for projects and compatibility updates. I also
mean broader user base.

IMHO:
To increase userbase and attract
serious sponsors attention, OpenBSD needs to be converted
to "friendly-for-non-IT-people" OS like Ubuntu.
Do you want to have polkit and Systemd in base system?:)

It seems than in obsd you should either investigate issue
by reading source code and using debugger or trace,
or write to bugs@ and wait for developer answer.

I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients.
People use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases.
Samba should be pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

I mean sponsors who pay for projects and compatibility updates. I also mean 
broader user base.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Daniel Bolgheroni]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 10:38:48AM +, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
> What I do not like of obsd is the negative energy of its community. We
> all have a sympatic gene and tend to mirror the social environment. We
> should be mindful of it, and try to stay positive. Another thing I do
> not like is the absence of industrial support. I mean, am I the only
> one on obsd nfs with windows 10 clients? It feels too much pioneering
> around here...

On how to report properly, please refer to:

https://www.openbsd.org/report.html

The project website has a list of vendors offering commercial,
"industrial" support.  Please refer to:

https://www.openbsd.org/support.html

-- 
db

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[lists]

Sat, 21 Apr 2018 06:31:33 + MB 
> Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall.  Even then its
> lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks
> at pretty much everything else.  Sorry I come from corporate real world
> experience not Soho stuff.  Use Linux.

Hi random web-mail person,

You May want to understand there could be different goals and objectives.
You Could show some grace and leave the fellow progress their own thread.
You Should not tell us all what to use.  Relay the comments to your boss.

Kind regards,
Anton Lazarov

> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher  wrote:
> 
> > This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10
> > pro" 1709 clients.
> >
> > The obsd nfs server had a single share:
> >
> > /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0
> >
> > When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the
> > network to find the resource. This is what happens:
> >
> > 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources;
> > 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors;
> > 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not
> > responding;
> > 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server
> > crashes.
> >
> > The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the
> > client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share is
> > to type in the path, without browsing.
> >
> > When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors.
> >
> > The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should not
> > crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics.
> >
> > R
> >  

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

Linux kernel truly is the kernel plus GCC plus GNU c libraries, a monilitic 
bloatware that requires serious computing power to compile. Clang is a much 
better compiler, and linux has serious problems with it. Parts of the kernel 
are written into gcc and c libs.

I am currently focused on embedded edge microservers with decent cpu, all built 
with clang, and I am experimenting with obsd.

What I do not like of obsd is the negative energy of its community. We all have 
a sympatic gene and tend to mirror the social environment. We should be mindful 
of it, and try to stay positive. Another thing I do not like is the absence of 
industrial support. I mean, am I the only one on obsd nfs with windows 10 
clients? It feels too much pioneering around here...

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Stuart Henderson]

> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher  wrote:
> 
> > This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10
> > pro" 1709 clients.
> >
> > The obsd nfs server had a single share:
> >
> > /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0
> >
> > When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the
> > network to find the resource. This is what happens:
> >
> > 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources;
> > 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors;
> > 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not
> > responding;
> > 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server
> > crashes.
> >
> > The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the
> > client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share is
> > to type in the path, without browsing.
> >
> > When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors.
> >
> > The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should not
> > crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics.

Packet captures from broken and working clients would be a good start
to figuring out what's going on.

On 2018/04/21 06:31, MB wrote:
> Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall.  Even then its
> lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks
> at pretty much everything else.  Sorry I come from corporate real world
> experience not Soho stuff.  Use Linux.

Or Windows, you might as well get some nice features to go with the
complex mess.

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[Andy Kosela]

MB  wrote:

> Invest in a NetApp filer and do it the right way.  Plenty of options
> spectrascale glfs/cnfs lustre with DNE/IME why struggle with this hobby OS,
> seriously?
>
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:31 AM MB  wrote:
>
> >
> > Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall.  Even then its
> > lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks
> > at pretty much everything else.  Sorry I come from corporate real world
> > experience not Soho stuff.  Use Linux.
> >

A couple of points:

  (1) Stop top-posting.
  (2) NetApp is using BSD nfs code.
  (3) I have run OpenBSD in a "corporate world" on a global scale and it
  usually outperforms everything else, including Linux, and
  definitely is much more stable and secure.
  (4) If OpenBSD "sucks" and you are on a mailing list that "sucks", your
  life must be truly miserable.

To the original author of this thread -- nfs is a UNIX technology,
originally made for Unix to Unix communication on a network.  Windows
client support came later and it is still not stellar.  Samba/CIFS is
what is a usual scenario here.  

But if you are serious about this and want to attract developers'
attention then please become familiar with sendbug(1).

  http://www.openbsd.org/report.html



--Andy

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[MB]

Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall.  Even then its
lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks
at pretty much everything else.  Sorry I come from corporate real world
experience not Soho stuff.  Use Linux.

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher  wrote:

> This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10
> pro" 1709 clients.
>
> The obsd nfs server had a single share:
>
> /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0
>
> When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the
> network to find the resource. This is what happens:
>
> 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources;
> 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors;
> 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not
> responding;
> 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server
> crashes.
>
> The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the
> client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share is
> to type in the path, without browsing.
>
> When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors.
>
> The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should not
> crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics.
>
> R
>

Re: NFS keeps crashing

[MB]

Invest in a NetApp filer and do it the right way.  Plenty of options
spectrascale glfs/cnfs lustre with DNE/IME why struggle with this hobby OS,
seriously?

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:31 AM MB  wrote:

>
> Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall.  Even then its
> lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks
> at pretty much everything else.  Sorry I come from corporate real world
> experience not Soho stuff.  Use Linux.
>
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher 
> wrote:
>
>> This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10
>> pro" 1709 clients.
>>
>> The obsd nfs server had a single share:
>>
>> /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0
>>
>> When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the
>> network to find the resource. This is what happens:
>>
>> 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources;
>> 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors;
>> 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not
>> responding;
>> 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server
>> crashes.
>>
>> The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the
>> client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share is
>> to type in the path, without browsing.
>>
>> When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors.
>>
>> The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should
>> not crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics.
>>
>> R
>>
>

NFS keeps crashing

[Rupert Gallagher]

This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10 pro" 
1709 clients.

The obsd nfs server had a single share:

/path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0

When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the network 
to find the resource. This is what happens:

1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources;
2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors;
3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not 
responding;
4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server 
crashes.

The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the client 
steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share is to type in 
the path, without browsing.

When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors.

The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should not 
crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics.

R