Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
That's not true. If you have a signed piece of paper saying I wrote it in mm-dd- you are good to go. The same way patents work; prior art can be proven by writing your idea in an engineering notebook (you know, pen and paper!) and then signing it. Since those notebooks are usually in chronological order they are considered valid pieces of evidence. On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 04:18:33PM -0400, Ringo Kamens wrote: That wouldn't work because the original author would be able to prove he was the owner of the copyright. Comrade RIngo Kamens On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Paul de Weerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 04:09:37PM -0400, Ringo Kamens wrote: | My guess would be that the content is released into the public domain | since you can't sue because there is no proof that you are the | copyright holder. | Comrade RIngo Kamens Let me just steal some code somewhere, relicense it and release it as 'anonymous'. *poof* .. it's public domain because you can't sue ? That's a bit too easy... Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
Well if you prove that you wrote it then that would defeat the purpose of releasing it under the name of anonmyous would you? One would be violating the copyright law regardless what name the said code is released under right? I mean, a third party won't be able to claim that they are the anonymous person unless they provide evidence, otherwise they can't change the license or do anything not permitted by the license, right?
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
I didn't claim it was a good idea. Anyway, this is all theoretical. On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:36:11PM +1000, Sunnz wrote: Well if you prove that you wrote it then that would defeat the purpose of releasing it under the name of anonmyous would you? One would be violating the copyright law regardless what name the said code is released under right? I mean, a third party won't be able to claim that they are the anonymous person unless they provide evidence, otherwise they can't change the license or do anything not permitted by the license, right?
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
On 2008-06-23, Sunnz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well if you prove that you wrote it then that would defeat the purpose of releasing it under the name of anonmyous would you? Someone may want to intentionally release it anonymously, then go back and try and sue people for infringing their copyright. It's hard to _totally_ guard against this, but for a project to accept code where there's a distinct possibility this happened would be pretty insane. At least where the submitter has a name and can establish some credibility/trust with a project, the risk is reduced.
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 08:45:59AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote: On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:36:11PM +1000, Sunnz wrote: Well if you prove that you wrote it then that would defeat the purpose of releasing it under the name of anonmyous would you? One would be violating the copyright law regardless what name the said code is released under right? I mean, a third party won't be able to claim that they are the anonymous person unless they provide evidence, otherwise they can't change the license or do anything not permitted by the license, right? I didn't claim it was a good idea. Anyway, this is all theoretical. True. I've been arguing for public domain dedication before. But you'll get an infinet discussion about the legal value of public domain etc. I just stuck with ISC because public domain is not worth all the discussion.
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
On 6/22/08, Sunnz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, just wondering what's your opinion on this... Looking back, I realized the subject question is not the same as the body question and nobody has answered it. For OpenBSD, the answer is no, you cannot contribute anonymously. If one were to release some code under an ISC or BSD-like 2 clause license, but under the name of anonymous, would it effectively as if it was released as public domain?
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
Hi, just wondering what's your opinion on this... If one were to release some code under an ISC or BSD-like 2 clause license, but under the name of anonymous, would it effectively as if it was released as public domain? I guess the actually question you wanted to as was: Does OpenBSD accept anonymous code? No. OpenBSD does not. We don't do a dumb thing like that.
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
2008/6/24 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, just wondering what's your opinion on this... If one were to release some code under an ISC or BSD-like 2 clause license, but under the name of anonymous, would it effectively as if it was released as public domain? I guess the actually question you wanted to as was: Does OpenBSD accept anonymous code? No. OpenBSD does not. We don't do a dumb thing like that. Well, actually I was just curious, so that's no for OpenBSD... I am interested to know what is the general case as well. It is nothing major, it is not like I want to make a killer app under anonymous or something. :p -- This e-mail may be confidential. You may not copy, forward, distribute, or, use any part of it. Note, this text has no effective legal binding on your part, there is no obligation to abide any or all parts of this. Treat it with the same level of care as any other pretending-to-be-law-speaking-but-not-really texts attached to e-mail messages you normally find on any other e-mails. For more information about disclaimers, please see: http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
Sunnz wrote: 2008/6/24 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, just wondering what's your opinion on this... If one were to release some code under an ISC or BSD-like 2 clause license, but under the name of anonymous, would it effectively as if it was released as public domain? I guess the actually question you wanted to as was: Does OpenBSD accept anonymous code? No. OpenBSD does not. We don't do a dumb thing like that. Well, actually I was just curious, so that's no for OpenBSD... I am interested to know what is the general case as well. It is nothing major, it is not like I want to make a killer app under anonymous or something. :p You question is probably non of my business as I am mathematician but accidentally there is a mathematician turn computer scientist who released some code in the past under very strange license that might be of great interest for you. So case study is: D. J. Bernstein from University of Illinois at Chicago. Software in question djbdns, qmail, ucspi-tcp, damontools publicfile . Do not look for his software among OpenBSD ports. You will not find it. His code is removed. Why? Well I am leaving to you to investigate the whole matter. It might not be exactly what you had in mind but it is definitely educative. The demise of his qmail is a wonderful example of interesting project which died because of the bad licence. I know that lots of people here like his djbdns but just imagine what could have happened with his projects if they were released under BSD license. Kind Regards, Predrag
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 04:01:57PM -0700, Predrag Punosevac wrote: The demise of his qmail is a wonderful example of interesting project which died because of the bad licence. I know that lots of people here like his djbdns but just imagine what could have happened with his projects if they were released under BSD license. I started using OpenBSD in version 2.7 in order to run qmail and djbdns due to DJB's suggestion, and have not found any reason to regret either choice. His weird ideas about licensing as well as hier (7) made it impossible to keep his stuff in ports, but it is by no means dead. Unfortunately, BSD licensing would never work for a part-time amateur programmer who insisted on total control. (But you know how crazy those mathematicians are. :-)
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
IANAL... On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 03:43:09AM +1000, Sunnz wrote: | Hi, just wondering what's your opinion on this... | | If one were to release some code under an ISC or BSD-like 2 clause | license, but under the name of anonymous, would it effectively as if | it was released as public domain? Well .. as the author of a work, you are the copyright holder to it. If you then release it under some permissive license, you basically give up some of the rights that copyright gives you, granting others a license to copy, modify and/or redistribute etc. Using ISC or BSD-like licenses, you indicate that you want to keep some (very basic) but give up most rights. So you want the world to know that *you* want to retain some rights but not who you are ? That does not compute. Who wants to retain those rights exactly ? Seems to me like a legal can of worms you do not want to open. In answer to your question, my guess would be no. I would guess that effectively you've given up no rights whatsoever and that the license is void if it lists an alias or 'anonymous' as the creator of the work. Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
My guess would be that the content is released into the public domain since you can't sue because there is no proof that you are the copyright holder. Comrade RIngo Kamens On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Paul de Weerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IANAL... On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 03:43:09AM +1000, Sunnz wrote: | Hi, just wondering what's your opinion on this... | | If one were to release some code under an ISC or BSD-like 2 clause | license, but under the name of anonymous, would it effectively as if | it was released as public domain? Well .. as the author of a work, you are the copyright holder to it. If you then release it under some permissive license, you basically give up some of the rights that copyright gives you, granting others a license to copy, modify and/or redistribute etc. Using ISC or BSD-like licenses, you indicate that you want to keep some (very basic) but give up most rights. So you want the world to know that *you* want to retain some rights but not who you are ? That does not compute. Who wants to retain those rights exactly ? Seems to me like a legal can of worms you do not want to open. In answer to your question, my guess would be no. I would guess that effectively you've given up no rights whatsoever and that the license is void if it lists an alias or 'anonymous' as the creator of the work. Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 04:18:33PM -0400, Ringo Kamens wrote: | That wouldn't work because the original author would be able to prove | he was the owner of the copyright. And that isn't possible in the hypothetical situation posted by the OP ? Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 04:09:37PM -0400, Ringo Kamens wrote: | My guess would be that the content is released into the public domain | since you can't sue because there is no proof that you are the | copyright holder. | Comrade RIngo Kamens Let me just steal some code somewhere, relicense it and release it as 'anonymous'. *poof* .. it's public domain because you can't sue ? That's a bit too easy... Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
That wouldn't work because the original author would be able to prove he was the owner of the copyright. Comrade RIngo Kamens On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Paul de Weerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 04:09:37PM -0400, Ringo Kamens wrote: | My guess would be that the content is released into the public domain | since you can't sue because there is no proof that you are the | copyright holder. | Comrade RIngo Kamens Let me just steal some code somewhere, relicense it and release it as 'anonymous'. *poof* .. it's public domain because you can't sue ? That's a bit too easy... Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
On 6/22/08, Ringo Kamens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My guess would be that the content is released into the public domain since you can't sue because there is no proof that you are the copyright holder. He absolutely can sue. He says I don't know who this anonymous person is, but they copied my code. And now the people using that code are screwed.
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
Sorry, I should have been more clear in my statement. What I was saying is that if the original author of the work published it anonymously, he would not be able to sue because he would not be able to prove he was the original author and copyright holder of the work. Comrade Ringo Kamens On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Ted Unangst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/22/08, Ringo Kamens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My guess would be that the content is released into the public domain since you can't sue because there is no proof that you are the copyright holder. He absolutely can sue. He says I don't know who this anonymous person is, but they copied my code. And now the people using that code are screwed.
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 05:18:51PM -0400, Ringo Kamens wrote: | Sorry, I should have been more clear in my statement. What I was | saying is that if the original author of the work published it | anonymously, he would not be able to sue because he would not be able | to prove he was the original author and copyright holder of the work. Well .. why not ? He can later say : I was this anonymous guy, here is $PROOF, you are in violation of my license, now pay me $$$. Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Can you contribute code under anonymous under ISC License?
Said individual would have to be able to prove he originally made the content available. I guess this could theoretically be possible ie if server logs verify it or something along those lines. Things to consider: 1. If said individual posted code anonymously, wouldn't that indicate they would like to remain anonymous? I think the court would also question why he posted the code anonymously and his proof would certainly come under some scrutiny. Comrade Ringo Kamens On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Paul de Weerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 05:18:51PM -0400, Ringo Kamens wrote: | Sorry, I should have been more clear in my statement. What I was | saying is that if the original author of the work published it | anonymously, he would not be able to sue because he would not be able | to prove he was the original author and copyright holder of the work. Well .. why not ? He can later say : I was this anonymous guy, here is $PROOF, you are in violation of my license, now pay me $$$. Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
