Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
On 14/04/14 03:48, Zeljko Jovanovic wrote: On 09.04.2014. 18:24, Fil Di Noto wrote: Is there any hope of OpenBSD running on IBM Power hardware (System P, LPAR) in the future? ... OS on that hardware without cooperation from IBM? I don't see any Linux distros that do not have a relationship with IBM that run on Power. Slackware Linux has an IBM port, although it has not been updated for several years now: http://www.slack390.org openSUSE is also an option apart from RedHat. OpenBSD would also be nice but I don't see it coming in the near future. Even Linux is not a demand, although I'm seeing efforts lately for KVM Virtualization on Power CPUs. G
Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
On 14.04.2014. 04:53, Nick Holland wrote: um. Linux kernel 2.4? Are you kidding me? dead dead dead. I said the port was old and had not been maintained for a long time. :) In any case, if one wants the current Slackware on System Z, I am sure this old version could be used as a starting point for compiling it. I would very much like to play with IBM mainframes, but as I know, the last one here at Belgrade University was dismantled some 16 or 17 years ago. It was a System 370, given by IBM for free back in the times of old Yugoslavia. The room it occupied has been since turned into classroom, and only its air condition system remained. They also kept a fancy black cube-shaped IBM vacuum cleaner. :)
Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
Linux on an architecture we don't run on? You are posting to the wrong list. um. Linux kernel 2.4? Are you kidding me? dead dead dead. I said the port was old and had not been maintained for a long time. :) In any case, if one wants the current Slackware on System Z, I am sure this old version could be used as a starting point for compiling it. I would very much like to play with IBM mainframes, but as I know, the last one here at Belgrade University was dismantled some 16 or 17 years ago. It was a System 370, given by IBM for free back in the times of old Yugoslavia. The room it occupied has been since turned into classroom, and only its air condition system remained. They also kept a fancy black cube-shaped IBM vacuum cleaner. :)
Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
On 09.04.2014. 18:24, Fil Di Noto wrote: Is there any hope of OpenBSD running on IBM Power hardware (System P, LPAR) in the future? ... OS on that hardware without cooperation from IBM? I don't see any Linux distros that do not have a relationship with IBM that run on Power. Slackware Linux has an IBM port, although it has not been updated for several years now: http://www.slack390.org I am not sure what are the differences between largest IBM machines (System Z, formerly known as System/390), and smaller systems such as System P. But I am sure that Slackware project certainly does not have a relationship with any company. By the way, as you probably know, Slackware is the oldest surviving Linux distribution, and adversises as the most UNIX-like among Linuxes. Also, its /etc layout is of BSD type, not System V like in other Linux distribution. The overall look and feel after instalation is similar to OpenBSD. Even the BSD games packages, with fortune program enabled by default is there. :)
Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
On 04/13/14 20:47, Zeljko Jovanovic wrote: On 09.04.2014. 18:24, Fil Di Noto wrote: Is there any hope of OpenBSD running on IBM Power hardware (System P, LPAR) in the future? ... OS on that hardware without cooperation from IBM? I don't see any Linux distros that do not have a relationship with IBM that run on Power. Slackware Linux has an IBM port, although it has not been updated for several years now: http://www.slack390.org um. Linux kernel 2.4? Are you kidding me? dead dead dead. I am not sure what are the differences between largest IBM machines (System Z, formerly known as System/390), and smaller systems such as System P. But I am sure that Slackware project certainly does not have a relationship with any company. By the way, as you probably know, Slackware is the oldest surviving Linux distribution, and adversises as the most UNIX-like among Linuxes. Also, its /etc layout is of BSD type, not System V like in other Linux distribution. The overall look and feel after instalation is similar to OpenBSD. Even the BSD games packages, with fortune program enabled by default is there. :) There are a bunch of things that are needed for an OpenBSD port, including at least: 1) Interest by a developer. 2) Hardware in the developer's hand. 3) Availability of hardware for other developers at a reasonable price. 4) A user base to stimulate #1 There's not a lot of hardware out there to be had, not a lot of it in developer's hands, and what's there isn't overly cheap. And it probably won't do anything better than other hardware out there to stimulate developer interest, either. I've got a couple IBM Power machines -- one with the performance of maybe a iMac G3, the other with the performance of a single processor G5. I could put a second processor in it, IF I could find an IBM processor module for a price I was willing to pay ($5 might do it. $20, definitely not. free would be the only definitely for me). As I recall, some years ago, someone managed to use a NetBSD boot loader to boot an OpenBSD kernel on something akin to my G3-ish machine, and the bloody thing actually kinda came up (missing a lot of hw, but still). The problem is... so what? If I do something serious with either of these machines, my ability to get a spare /cheaply/ is low, and for a fraction of the price and power consumption, I can get a BETTER in every way i386 or amd64 system...or a scrap MacPPC system. There's a lot of reasons developers can be interested in particular hardware when pure logic might dictate that mainstream Intel-ish is better but I'm not seeing much about those IBM systems to make them overly lovable from either a purely rational or emotional standpoint. If you disagree, go ahead, do the work to make it run, submit the code, keep it running, and your reward will be seeing a new platform supported by OpenBSD...as long as you do the work to keep it running. Wow, that sounds really depressing when I put it that way. Nick.
Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
Nick Holland wrote: There's a lot of reasons developers can be interested in particular hardware The P series are perfectly good systems for AIX, Linux, and i Series OS (OS400). They would also be fine for OpenBSD if there were any call for that, but in the IBM community, the open-source *nix niche was filled in the 1999 by IBM mutineers creating a Linux port. The technology spread from the 390 to the AS400 and the P series (which latter subsumed the AS400). All attempts to revisit the issue of *nix-on-IBM-big-iron have been spectacularly unsuccessful at gaining adherents, e.g., the excellent SOL390 (Open Solaris for mainframes) port was born only to die a lonely death. -- Jack Woehr # We commonly say we have no time when, Box 51, Golden CO 80402 # of course, we have all that there is. http://www.softwoehr.com # - James Mason, _The Art of Chess_, 1905
Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
There are a bunch of things that are needed for an OpenBSD port, including at least: 1) Interest by a developer. Right. 2) Hardware in the developer's hand. Totall irrelevant. If there is interest, they will ask to get for it. 3) Availability of hardware for other developers at a reasonable price. 4) A user base to stimulate #1 I've seen this cycle a bunch of times. From what I've seen, above two points are completely irrelevant. You've missed a point. 3) Something unknown makes sure the developer has time. If you disagree, go ahead, do the work to make it run, submit the code, keep it running, and your reward will be seeing a new platform supported by OpenBSD...as long as you do the work to keep it running. Wow, that sounds really depressing when I put it that way. This doesn't help. It's like talking to me neighbour about changing oil.
Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:48 AM, Zeljko Jovanovic zelj...@tesla.rcub.bg.ac.rs wrote: On 09.04.2014. 18:24, Fil Di Noto wrote: Is there any hope of OpenBSD running on IBM Power hardware (System P, LPAR) in the future? ... OS on that hardware without cooperation from IBM? I don't see any Linux distros that do not have a relationship with IBM that run on Power. Slackware Linux has an IBM port, although it has not been updated for several years now: http://www.slack390.org I am not sure what are the differences between largest IBM machines (System Z, formerly known as System/390), and smaller systems such as System P. But I am sure that Slackware project certainly does not have a relationship with any company. By the way, as you probably know, Slackware is the oldest surviving Linux distribution, and adversises as the most UNIX-like among Linuxes. Also, its /etc layout is of BSD type, not System V like in other Linux distribution. The overall look and feel after instalation is similar to OpenBSD. Even the BSD games packages, with fortune program enabled by default is there. :)
Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:48 AM, Zeljko Jovanovic zelj...@tesla.rcub.bg.ac.rs wrote: On 09.04.2014. 18:24, Fil Di Noto wrote: Is there any hope of OpenBSD running on IBM Power hardware (System P, LPAR) in the future? ... OS on that hardware without cooperation from IBM? I don't see any Linux distros that do not have a relationship with IBM that run on Power. Slackware Linux has an IBM port, although it has not been updated for several years now: http://www.slack390.org I am not sure what are the differences between largest IBM machines (System Z, formerly known as System/390), and smaller systems such as System P. But I am sure that Slackware project certainly does not have a relationship with any company. By the way, as you probably know, Slackware is the oldest surviving Linux distribution, and adversises as the most UNIX-like among Linuxes. Also, its /etc layout is of BSD type, not System V like in other Linux distribution. The overall look and feel after instalation is similar to OpenBSD. Even the BSD games packages, with fortune program enabled by default is there. :) The question is for how long. Especially RedHat is pushing a lot of stuff in a way which even MS need to yet discover (:-)). And crap like systemd and similar is just a start. Man that stupid stuff is not even able to boot automatically system which is supposed to mount automatically with filesystem residing on LVM (OpenSuse 12.x). You add aditional disk, create LVM on it, some ext filesystem, put it in /etc/fstab, mount.oo works.. till reboot which always end in emergency mode where you need to comment that new entry in /etc/fstab, reboot, manually start LVM service (!), manually mount new entry in /etc/fstab again. WHAT AN IMPROVEMENT ! ' And I'm describing just stuff which admins are and were doing for years on Linux. Simple new disk/partition with LVM. Stuff which was not needed to hack somewhat around after reboot just to get system back working. Too much bored to look at that shit in details, but seems like it's not able to start services in proper order and completely breaking functional thing like simple /etc/fstab which was working for such long time in Unix world.
Re: OpenBSD on IBM Power
On 9 April 2014 12:24, Fil Di Noto fdin...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any hope of OpenBSD running on IBM Power hardware (System P, LPAR) in the future? I've recently been working with this hardware and it's pretty amazing. I can't speak to its future market share but there seems to be a lot of propaganda from IBM regarding Linux on Power which suggests to me that IBM is trying to be more supportive of other operating systems besides AIX on their hardware. I've heard IBM contributes code to RHEL to make it work well on Power hardware. Would a project like OpenBSD have any hope of being a solid OS on that hardware without cooperation from IBM? I don't see any Linux distros that do not have a relationship with IBM that run on Power. No developers interested that I know of. So it's not likely. Ken
