Re: glbtiq issues Was Re: [Mpls] Natalie Johnson Lee
At 12:10 AM 9/15/2005, David Strand wrote: Mark, would you provide support or evidence of her making such comments? She voted in favor of the city lobbying the state for equal marriage rights, in favor of repealing the restroom ordinance which was leading to harrassment of transgender people and has supported every other iniative at the city level over the last four years apart from the equal benefits ordinance for which she has explained her reasoning and was and has been held accountable by the party. She has explained her reasoning concerning that vote and even if I disagree with her choice on that one issue, I trust that she supports equality under the law based on her actions and the Lavender Greens have made in effort to be in contact with Natalie about our concerns about issues before the council prior to votes taking place which we failed to do initially. David, you know very well that Natalie Johnson Lee was quoted in Bob Battle's St Paul Pioneer Press column supporting Bachmann. Don Jorovsky raised this issue last November: http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2004-November/036611.html So you can imagine my surprise to read the following op-ed piece in yesterday's Pioneer Press: http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/opinion/10207397.htmhttp://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/opinion/10207397.htm You can read it for yourself, but the thrust of it is to oppose equal rights for gays and lesbians on the basis of biblical teachings. That in itself is not surprising -- a wide variety of viewpoints are found on editorial pages. What did surprise me was this statement by the author (Rev. Bob Battle): .leaders such as Minneapolis 5th Ward Council Member Natalie Johnson Lee.have added their voices of support for biblical marriage. You responded to this: http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2004-November/036621.html See this from the Green Party's Bob Halfhill to NJL: http://mapnp.geeks.org/pipermail/mpls/2005-February/038811.html Also my post about talking to NJL here: http://mapnp.geeks.org/pipermail/mpls/2004-December/037401.html Battle's column is no longer available on the Pioneer Press website. I'll pull the column from Lexis nexis this weekend and post it on my blog. Bob Battle is a truly horrendous anti-gay black minister - and it speaks volumes that Natalie Johnson Lee can't publically distance herself from him. He mentioned no other black elected officials in his column. My question - is part of the reason Natalie is reluctant to publically distance herself because Battle is correctly quoting her? I would ask, is the DFL holding Barb Johnson to a standard of glbtiq support? She has voted against nearly every iniative including the equal benefits ordinance and the repeal of the restroom ordinance(don't recall her votes on the other issues before the council such as establishing reciprocity and open registration and nondiscrimination in fees vis a vis spouses for domestic partner registrants). That's up to the DFL. Mark Hanson is PAC Chair for Log Cabin Republicans of Minnesota. For that matter, I find it shocking that the Stonewall DFL chose to endorse Peter MacLaughlin over R.T. Rybak when R.T. has supported more numerous specific changes to city policy to address needs of the glbt community than had passed in the ten years previous. It makes no sense to me that Stonewall would not support the mayor who signed changes to the housing code to allow domestic partners to rent out as many rooms in their home as a married couple, nondiscrimination in fees for domestic partners vis a vis spouses for club memberships, rental background checks, etc., the repeal of the restroom ordinance, the reciprocity and open dp registriy provisions, and supports lobbying the state government to allow the city to provide domestic partnership benefits and legalizing same sex marriage. That's up to Stonewall to explain. I thought it rather wierd when they initially found Rybak unacceptable - but they reversed that one. I understand from talking to Stonewall Chair Paul Skrbec that part of what made Peter McLaughlin appealing to him as a candidate was Peter's thoughtful answer to a question about party and play drugs. Mayor Rybak apparently gave a very cursory answer to that question. Just what specific policy pieces can you point to that Peter has supported that specifically address glbtiq concerns? Talk is nice. Action is better. I'll let Mark Hanson speak for himself. I have never been an apologist for Peter McLaughlin. Eva Young Near North Minneapolis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lloydletta's Nooz http://lloydletta.blogspot.com Dump Michele Bachmann http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, printer (1706 - 1790)
RE: [Mpls] Natalie Johnson Lee and the Crackpot Fundie
At 09:32 AM 9/15/2005, Brandon Lacy wrote: Natalie has been a strong ally to the LGBT community since taking office. The one vote in City Hall that she took that did not serve the LGBT community (her vote against requiring corporations with city contracts to provide domestic partner benefits to their employees) was immediately addressed by the party. At the time I was the chair of the National Lavender Green Caucus, and I was in direct contact with Natalie over the issue. The local party and the state Lavender Green Caucus also called CM Johnson Lee to task over that issue. The party is deadly serious about its committment to LGBT liberation, and any elected official that acts in a way contrary to the Key Values, Pillars, or Platform of the party has been and will not continue to move blithely through the party. Natalie's vote caused outrage amongst Greens from coast to coast. And she has re-established trust with queer Greens since that vote. You may also be referring to the rumors that Natalie was in cahoots with some crack pot fundie. None of that was ever proven. I have met Natalie. I have spoken with her on several occassions. She supports freedom and equality for LGBT folks. That's not a rumor. Natalie was quoted in an article by Bob Battle (who speaks regularly about the dangers gays pose to civilization) defending Michele Bachmann and her amendment. I just posted the quote. Natalie never requested a correction from the Pioneer Press regarding that article. She also never posted a press release clarifying her position on that issue to either her campaign or official website. Eva Young Near North Minneapolis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lloydletta's Nooz http://lloydletta.blogspot.com Dump Michele Bachmann http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, printer (1706 - 1790) http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1381.html REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Natalie Johnson Lee and the Crackpot Fundie
Neither did she confirm it nor has she acted in any manner that would suggest that she doesn't support full marriage rights for LGBT individuals. Sometimes the best way to let an issue die is to give it no credence whatsoever. -Brandon Lacy Campos -Loring Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] campaign donations
In the three OFF years, no one can donate more than $100 to any candidate. In CAMPAIGN years, the limit is $300 per person. If I remember correctly, it is $500 for the mayor. I might be wrong on this, but I think there was an accommodation made because of running city wide. Corporate donations are illegal. The comment Gary Schiff received $650 from Master Development, according to his pre-primary campaign finance report. from Mr. McGrath is inaccurate. He received that amount from PEOPLE WHO WORK AT Master Development, and there is nothing illegal about that. linda higgins old highland REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Soccer Start Minnesota Making Soccer Available to Every Child in Every Community
Soccer Start Minnesota Making Soccer Available to Every Child in Every Community It is the desire of Minnesota Youth Soccer Association to make soccer available to every child in the state. In order to work towards this goal, MYSA has adopted the Soccer Start program as developed by US Youth Soccer. Focused on making soccer available to lower-income children in under-served communities, Soccer Start provides soccer training and administrative guidance to players and organizations who might otherwise not be exposed to the sport. Soccer Start also helps new programs find the funding and equipment to begin and then to expand their activities. The Goals of Soccer Start are: To reach out to children in under-served and socio-economically disadvantaged places in order to offer them an on-going program of positive sports activities through soccer; To increase participants self-esteem through participation in an organized and supportive program of team activities; To build positive social and life skills; To provide important exercise and increased awareness of one's own health through sports; To provide the players with positive, cooperative and enjoyable after school and spare time activities. Minnesota Youth Soccer Association recognizes that many areas of the state are under-served by existing clubs and leagues in the sport of soccer. In order to support the development of soccer in these areas, MYSA has developed a three-year plan to reach these areas. MYSA has budgeted monies and equipment to assist these Soccer Start programs. If you believe that your community may qualify for identification as a Soccer Start program, please contact Shelly Orr, MYSA Director of Operations at 952-933-2384 (800-366-6972) or by email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Todd Heintz, Jordan - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] campaign donations
Having worked on city wide campaigns,it is correct that the mayor, library board, city wide park board seats, school board and board of estimate and taxation candidates all have a top contribution limit of $500 in election years. City council and district park board candidates are both held to a cap of $300. David Strand --- Linda Higgins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the three OFF years, no one can donate more than $100 to any candidate. In CAMPAIGN years, the limit is $300 per person. If I remember correctly, it is $500 for the mayor. I might be wrong on this, but I think there was an accommodation made because of running city wide. Corporate donations are illegal. The comment Gary Schiff received $650 from Master Development, according to his pre-primary campaign finance report. from Mr. McGrath is inaccurate. He received that amount from PEOPLE WHO WORK AT Master Development, and there is nothing illegal about that. linda higgins old highland REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] campaign donations
Linda Higgins wrote: In the three OFF years, no one can donate more than $100 to any candidate. In CAMPAIGN years, the limit is $300 per person. If I remember correctly, it is $500 for the mayor. I might be wrong on this, but I think there was an accommodation made because of running city wide. City-wide it is $500. Carol Becker Longfellow Candidate for the Board of Estimate and Taxation REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] When to not give credence.....
Re: the fight I resurrected re: Natalie Johnson Lee and her failure to publicly refute Reverend Bob Battle's use of her name in a major newspaper... 1. More people read the Pioneer Press than attend Green Party meetings. 2. More people read the Pioneer Press than read this issues list. 3. If some crackpot capitalist announced an intent to start drilling for oil in Powderhorn Park and cited support from a Green Party politician, what would my friends in the Green Party expect from that politician in terms of publicly correcting the record? I respect the loyalty and diligence displayed by the people who objected to my original message, but private assurances do not equal a public correction. Mark Hanson Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Nothing Private about City Council Votes was nlj and glbtiq
Mark Hanson alleges that all he has are private assurances in regards to Natalie's support for glbtiq people. Mark, I must disagree. There is nothing private about Natalie's record on the city council. She has voted to support the lobbying efforts of the city in favor of same sex marriage, domestic partnership benefits for public employees, repealing the restroom ordinance. Your going to take a quote of someone concerning someone else's opinions over concrete action in the form of city council votes? Don't buy it. David Strand Loring Park __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Primary Turnout
On Thursday, September 15, 2005, at 07:21 PM, Erik Riese wrote: Perhaps we should institute an election quorum. Say 60% in a primary and 85% in a general. Unless we get that level of participation the election is void and we have to have a do over. At some point we could force a rotation of the candidates. The candidates would be forced to put their efforts into real get out the vote instead of just getting out their voters. I don't believe the cause of low voter turnout is lack of candidate effort, therefore, forcing candidates to meet voter quotas will not have the result desired. Unless a society wide responsibility is undertaken, voter turnout will continue to dwindle. Long before I was a candidate I worked on get out the vote campaigns. These efforts are needed many times over for the same voters and for new voters. I'm a supporter of engaging younger people and lowering the voting age to 16. When we see low voter turnouts in these local elections it is a call to all of us to work for the civic good together. Representative government works best when it is highly representative of voter choice. Nevertheless, when 15% of the voters choose, that is still representative government, but the 85% have given away their power of choice. That's the message that needs to be broadly communicated: don't let others choose your government for you. Best wishes, Laura Southeast (Como Neighborhood) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mayoral strategy - Question
Commissioner McLaughlin's only child is still gestating in its mother's womb and will be joining the world sometime in January. Loki Anderson Downtown Dean Lindberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where did/do Commissioner McLaughlin's kids go to school? Terrell Brown wrote: A few things jumped out at me. McLaughlin, for the first time, criticizes Rybak for sending his kids to private schools. Dean Lindberg Minnehaha REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Primary Turnout
I'll agree that overall the low voter turnout is pathetic, but I do want to defend the honor of my old neighborhood. Precinct 3-1 is Dinkytown, where a great portion of the registered voters in the voter file have moved and a great number (probably a majority) of the eligible voters have only moved into the neighborhood within the last month. A lot of student voters are simply not motivated by local city issues and are seldom targeted by campaigns to engage their interest. In the neighboring precincts in the Second Ward students are getting a lot more attention from the campaigns, but I haven't heard of any similar effort being made by the Hofstede or Neumann campaigns. I don't think that's necessarily neglect, since the Third Ward stretches into three distinct communities (North, Northeast and Southeast) and I'm sure there are plenty of neighborhood events that are demanding their attention. Loki Anderson Downtown (formerly Dinkytown) Erik Riese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings List! Many folks have mentioned turnout in the Citywide Primary. Unofficial totals show 14.67% city wide. Singling out Ward 3 Precinct 1 2.14% of the registered voters showed up to vote! This is pathetic! We need to do something about how little the citizens care about their government. Perhaps we should institute an election quorum. Say 60% in a primary and 85% in a general. Unless we get that level of participation the election is void and we have to have a do over. At some point we could force a rotation of the candidates. The candidates would be forced to put their efforts into real get out the vote instead of just getting out their voters. Minneapolis should lead the way in voter turn-out the MPLS-Issues list is a tool that should inspire participation. We need to change what is going on. In cooperation, Erik Riese Seward US@: A great place to live, work, learn, create and play. ~~~ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Drilling in Powderhorn Park...
Frankly, if some loon nut decided to announce drilling for oil in Powderhorn Park, I doubt the party would do anything but hold their sides and giggle. As a long term resident of Powderhorn Park, I'd like to see Centerpoint bring a drill into that neighborhood. There would be some spectacular fireworks that day, I tell you that. A combined army of Greens, lesbians, and people of color just plain tired of environmental racism would take care of the dirty work ;-). Really. If Natalie had made any sort of comment with regards to that article the long term reprecussions that she would have had to deal with would have been ridiculous. That would have been a perfect organizing tool for anti-queer marriage organizers that have a long and successful history of playing LGBT individuals off people of color communities. I guarantee had Natalie allowed this issue to balloon, she would have had Fred Phelps and every other fundie minister in the Upper and Lower Midwest organizing in her neighborhood against her. Instead she has let her votes make very clear her position on supporting LGBT liberation. It isn't an ideal situation. But that's the horrific reality of electoral politics. Period. When we allow identity politics to become politics of hate, we end up with oppressed communities battling needlessly against one another while the corporate minority finds new and innovative ways to gentrify our neighborhoods, run out our locally owned businesses, line their pockets, while relegating more people to the unemployment line or the ranks of the working poor. She has not hidden in any way her support for queer people or queer people of color for that matter. I do not expect Natalie to become a front page banner carrier for LGBT rights. I do expect her to do everything possible in her capacity as an elected Green to support LGBT liberation when she has the opportunity in her purvue as a City Council member. With one exception the Coucil Member has shown her support for our community. In the one instance where she didn't, she heard about it loudly and clearly from Greens from coast to coast. I'd LIKE to know the last time a Democrat pulled some middle of the road anti-queer liberation we'll give 'em separate but equal treatment shennanigans and faced an outcry from their party members all across the country. Oops. It's never happened. That's New Democrats for ya. No wonder they're at the lowest point in their history...well...since before Reconstruction. Well folks that two for today. Now it's off to load the car and begin my treck to the desert. Talk to ya'll next week...from sunny Albuquerque. -Brandon Lacy Campos -Loring Park Writer, Poet, Playwright, and Rabble Rouser Lavender Greens: www.lavendergreens.org YouthAction: www.youthaction.net From: Mark Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mpls@mnforum.org Subject: [Mpls] When to not give credence. Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:41:33 -0500 Re: the fight I resurrected re: Natalie Johnson Lee and her failure to publicly refute Reverend Bob Battle's use of her name in a major newspaper... 1. More people read the Pioneer Press than attend Green Party meetings. 2. More people read the Pioneer Press than read this issues list. 3. If some crackpot capitalist announced an intent to start drilling for oil in Powderhorn Park and cited support from a Green Party politician, what would my friends in the Green Party expect from that politician in terms of publicly correcting the record? I respect the loyalty and diligence displayed by the people who objected to my original message, but private assurances do not equal a public correction. Mark Hanson Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Turnout: Best and Worst by Precinct
Questions of overall turnout are interesting, but I'm fascinated by the unevenness of turnout. So I went and did a quick look see of the highest and lowest turnout precincts: Lowest (by percentage): 1) W2 P4 .78% 2) W3 P1 2.14% 3) W2 P11 2.26% 4) W5 P7 5.12% 5) W4 P9 5.14% Highest (by percentage) 1) W2 P2 32.13% 2) W7 P2 29.55% 3) W8 P7 28.81% 4) W13 P6 27.39% 5) W13 P7 26.76% We talk about high and low turnout wards, but the numbers tell a complicated story of wide precinct level swings in turnout. In my home Ward 2 - the highest turnout and two of the lowest are in the Ward. A shout out to my neighbors in my home precinct (W2 P2) for leading the city in turnout. Any theories about the outliers as to why they are so high or low? Part of the problem I have in interpreting the results is that I'm not as aware of the different precinct boundaries, but those of you who live in these precincts might offer theories as to why. aaron klemz cooper W2 P2 Voter +++ Aaron Klemz, Minneapolis, Minnesota [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Primary Turnout
It is a mistake to draw conclusions from this low turnout primary
election.
There was nothing at stake in this election. Both Rybak and
McLaughlin were going to advance to the general, and supporters on
both sides knew that. Given the low stakes, plenty of folks in both
camps sat this one out, particularly given the rainy start to the
day. This is also true of the most council races. Most wards did
not have a primary or a hotly contested race. The only real drama
was in 8, 10, and 13.
The results tell me that chronic voters (people who vote in every
election, rain or shine) have a slight preference for Rybak. But
given that turnout in the general election will more than double,
perhaps even triple, from the primary, drawing any conclusions from
Tuesday's results is a fool's errand.
As an example, take the 13th Ward. Betsy Hodges got over 50 percent
in this primary, which is amazing for a DFL-endorsed candidate in
13. Yet her total vote was only about 2700. When I ran and lost in
13 four years ago, I got 4724 votes in the general election. The
vote totals for the winning candidate in the last three general
elections ('93, '97, and '01) were approximately 6800, 7400, and
5700, respectively. Hodges needs to find another 3000-3500 votes to
win, and in Ward 13 that's going to be a challenge for a DFL-endorsed
candidate.
So it's a mulligan for everyone. Tee it up, and take another swing
in November.
Greg Abbott
Linden Hills
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RE: [Mpls] Turnout: Best and Worst by Precinct
Aaron Klemz wrote: Questions of overall turnout are interesting, but I'm fascinated by the unevenness of turnout. So I went and did a quick look see of the highest and lowest turnout precincts: Highest (by percentage) 1) W2 P2 32.13% W2 P2 is Prospect Park Central. I guess it's interesting to know that we're so political active (in a bizarre kind of way). Of course, there's a debt owed for saving Pratt Elementary from closure (the city's smallest school). I'm glad to see that Pratt parents reciprocated for the Mayor's personal promise to help. Power to those who vote! Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Turnout: Best and Worst by Precinct
OPPS! Right! Sorry, my mistake. Misread the map. Thanks Loki. Well, that's also interesting given that it's Cam Gordon's neighborhood. Right? Goes to show what can go wrong when you rush things. Ack. Michael Atherton Prospect Park _ From: Loki Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:32 AM To: Michael Atherton Subject: RE: [Mpls] Turnout: Best and Worst by Precinct Michael, Prospect Park is 2-5 (and 2-6). 2-2 is in Seward. Loki Anderson Michael Atherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aaron Klemz wrote: Questions of overall turnout are interesting, but I'm fascinated by the unevenness of turnout. So I went and did a quick look see of the highest and lowest turnout precincts: Highest (by percentage) 1) W2 P2 32.13% W2 P2 is Prospect Park Central. I guess it's interesting to know that we're so political active (in a bizarre kind of way). Of course, there's a debt owed for saving Pratt Elementary from closure (the city's smallest school). I'm glad to see that Pratt parents reciprocated for the Mayor's personal promise to help. Power to those who vote! Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls _ Yahoo! for Good Click http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Primary Turnout
Here's the scenario:
Incumbent Mayor running for re-election for the first time in a primary
against a well known, elected official who is charging that the
incumbent hasn't done enough about crime or neighborhood development,
and questioning the budget decisions over the past 4 years. Although
there are other candidates running, it is clear that the incumbent and
the challenger will come through the primary.
The primary has low turnout, in the 14 percents, with the challenger
coming in 2nd with 35 percent of the vote.
2005? No, sorry, 1997: Barbara Carlson vs. SSB. The general election
has SSB winning 55-45.
Now of course I'm sure many will point out differences between 1997 and
2005. I agree, it's not a perfect apples to apples comparison. The
point is that there isn't a whole lot clamering for change among
the joe schmoe voter out there. Contrary to what was stated below,
there was something at stake out on Tuesday and that was to send a
message that we aren't happy with the direction of the City and the
Mayor running the ship. Given the fact that there was a legitimate
challenger with a solid base of support from the typical interests who
have a stake in the outcome of the mayoral race who could only muster
35 percent of the vote speaks volumes about his chances 7 weeks from
now.
Dean E. Carlson
East harriet, Ward 10
- Original Message -
From: Greg Abbott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:53 am
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Primary Turnout
It is a mistake to draw conclusions from this low turnout primary
election.
There was nothing at stake in this election. Both Rybak and
McLaughlin were going to advance to the general, and supporters on
both sides knew that. Given the low stakes, plenty of folks in
both
camps sat this one out, particularly given the rainy start to the
day. This is also true of the most council races. Most wards did
not have a primary or a hotly contested race. The only real drama
was in 8, 10, and 13.
The results tell me that chronic voters (people who vote in every
election, rain or shine) have a slight preference for Rybak. But
given that turnout in the general election will more than double,
perhaps even triple, from the primary, drawing any conclusions
from
Tuesday's results is a fool's errand.
As an example, take the 13th Ward. Betsy Hodges got over 50
percent
in this primary, which is amazing for a DFL-endorsed candidate in
13. Yet her total vote was only about 2700. When I ran and lost
in
13 four years ago, I got 4724 votes in the general election. The
vote totals for the winning candidate in the last three general
elections ('93, '97, and '01) were approximately 6800, 7400, and
5700, respectively. Hodges needs to find another 3000-3500 votes
to
win, and in Ward 13 that's going to be a challenge for a DFL-
endorsed
candidate.
So it's a mulligan for everyone. Tee it up, and take another
swing
in November.
Greg Abbott
Linden Hills
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Re: [Mpls] Primary Turnout
On Sep 15, 2005, at 7:21 PM, Erik Riese wrote: This is pathetic! We need to do something about how little the citizens care about their government. Perhaps we should institute an election quorum. Say 60% in a primary and 85% in a general. Unless we get that level of participation the election is void and we have to have a do over. At some point we could force a rotation of the candidates. The candidates would be forced to put their efforts into real get out the vote instead of just getting out their voters. this is somewhat facetious, but I think we ought to run elections like MPR runs their fund-raising pledge drives. Start the election on, say, Friday and run it through the following Friday. Every day -- on every broadcast station -- announce what the voter turnout percentages are (but not the counts for individual candidates). Exhort folks to do your share. Guilt folks to do your share. Offer premiums for voting (uh, guess not -- strike that). Once the participation goal is met, turn off the exhortation(s) but let the polls stay open until the end. Of course, we political junkies will need to sit on pins and needles for a week to know what the outcome is ... just imagine the tone of the posts on lists like this (grin) Rick Mons Shoreview - Tanglewood Area REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Why I didn't seek Green Party endorsement in 2005
This year I stood for election to a seat on the Minneapolis City Council as a Green Party candidate and bypassed the local Green Party endorsement process. I decided to stand for election in early May, after being informed that the Green Party steering committee had recruited a candidate who I could not support. At two GP membership meetings in 2002, before and after the primary election, 50% supported my candidacy for a seat on the Minneapolis School Board. I won the primary election. At a meeting in 2004 I sought endorsement for the same office and received support from only about 10% of the members in attendance. I didn't seek the GP endorsement this year because, in 2004, my criticism of statements by another school board candidate seeking the GP endorsement was considered beyond the pale, a cardinal sin, according to many GP members. The discussion which followed my presentation including the airing of many criticisms of a personal nature directed at me, and no discussion of the issues raised in my presentation or of the issue that I raised in opposing the endorsement of the other candidate (who fell one vote short of the two-thirds supermajority needed for endorsement). I criticized the other candidate for saying that the school board could not be faulted for a significant part of the black-white learning gap, and that most African American students are hard to educate. In my opinion, the so-called racial learning gap in the public schools is mostly the byproduct of an education access gap. Simply put: Students enrolled in the strongest educational programs achieve the most, and students enrolled in the weakest educational programs achieve the least. African American students are heavily concentrated in the weakest programs. The school board is perpetuating the education access gap by its actions, and inaction. For example: There were fewer than 1,700 full time teaching positions budgeted for the 2003-2004 school year. In 2004 the school board planned to cut about 150 full time teaching positions, but laid off 608 teachers. That drives up teacher turnover rates, especially at schools with a high concentration of low seniority teachers. In my opinion, the school board can quickly and dramatically reduce the education access gap by not laying off teachers they plan to rehire or replace, by desegregating the district's least experienced teachers, and by phasing out all but college bound curriculum tracks for the general student population. -Doug Mann, King Field http://educationright.com/blog REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Hello list, It has been brought to my attention by a friend who recently bought a corner hood store, that one of the best-selling items is a product known as roses which is a glass tube used for smoking crack. This product retails for $2.50. (Though stores purchase them wholesale for 13 cents each.) In addition, for the wealthier addict, many stores also carry glass pipes for $9.99. I fail to see what legal use these products could have, since I'm pretty sure you can't comfortably smoke tobacco from them, and who would want to anyway...? So this is yet another bothersome trait of the so-called hood stores which dot the landscape of Phillips, North Minneapolis and other locales, and I wonder what people think about it? I have emailed my house representative on this subject plan to follow up on the issue because I find it absolutely offensive that these stores can participate in the culture of crack which is so integral to the perpetuation of violence and hopelessness in my community. In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? Connie Nompelis West Phillips Powderhorn (Live in WP) __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Some of the hood stores also sell small scales (for weighing) and jewelry bags for distributing $5 bags of pot behind the counter. dennis plante From: Constance Nompelis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mpls@mnforum.org Subject: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Hello list, It has been brought to my attention by a friend who recently bought a corner hood store, that one of the best-selling items is a product known as roses which is a glass tube used for smoking crack. This product retails for $2.50. (Though stores purchase them wholesale for 13 cents each.) In addition, for the wealthier addict, many stores also carry glass pipes for $9.99. I fail to see what legal use these products could have, since I'm pretty sure you can't comfortably smoke tobacco from them, and who would want to anyway...? So this is yet another bothersome trait of the so-called hood stores which dot the landscape of Phillips, North Minneapolis and other locales, and I wonder what people think about it? I have emailed my house representative on this subject plan to follow up on the issue because I find it absolutely offensive that these stores can participate in the culture of crack which is so integral to the perpetuation of violence and hopelessness in my community. In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? Connie Nompelis West Phillips Powderhorn (Live in WP) __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
It has been brought to my attention by a friend who recently bought a corner hood store, that one of the best-selling items is a product known as roses which is a glass tube used for smoking crack. This product retails for $2.50. (Though stores purchase them wholesale for 13 cents each.) and while that is legal to sell, they are restricting and or banning the sale of sudafed, which actually has a very common legal use. John Harris webber-camden REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Turnout: Best and Worst by Precinct
Looking at the numbers in more detail: The 14% voter turnout is calculated using the registered voters from last year. Last year's election saw a surge in voters because of the contentious presidential race. So the number of registered voters for this election is artificially high. Voter turn out is always higher in Presidential years because of the media coverage (and in the Governor elections). In a city race, you will not see candidates buying advertising on TV (too expensive); you don't see media providing much coverage of Minneapolis City elections (Minneapolis City population is less than 10% of the market for the major papers or TV). All this means that the race is much less visible to the general public(and this is even more true for a primary election). Low precincts: W2 P4 .78% -- U of M dorms and the Frat row account for more than 95%. Students are not back yet. Also, voting was unusually high in the Presidential election. W2 P 11 2.26% --almost the same, but does have some non-dorm housing in the Neighborhood between the 94 exit and Oak Street. W3 P1 2.14% --Dinkytown east of I 35--mostly student housing. Not sure about why 5-7 and 4-9 were low (5-7 includes the major re-development of the North side public housing area) High precincts: W2 P2 32.13%--the part of Seward south of Franklin, next to the river--just east of my house. (Just south of Cam Gordon's home. Cara Letofsky lives right in the center of the precinct.) 2) W7 P2 29.55% 3) W8 P7 28.81% 4) W13 P6 27.39% 5) W13 P7 26.76% On average, all of the high precincts are higher income areas (all bordering the river or a lake except 8-7) sheldon ... Sheldon Mains DFL and Labor Endorsed Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees http://www.MainsForLibrary.org [EMAIL PROTECTED], 612/618-7149 Mains for Library Committee, 2718 24th St. E., Mpls 55406 It is incredibly important to this country that we have people who run libraries that actually believe in reading books instead of burning them. Howard Dean -Original Message- From: Aaron Klemz Questions of overall turnout are interesting, but I'm fascinated by the unevenness of turnout. So I went and did a quick look see of the highest and lowest turnout precincts: Lowest (by percentage): 1) W2 P4 .78% 2) W3 P1 2.14% 3) W2 P11 2.26% 4) W5 P7 5.12% 5) W4 P9 5.14% Highest (by percentage) 1) W2 P2 32.13% 2) W7 P2 29.55% 3) W8 P7 28.81% 4) W13 P6 27.39% 5) W13 P7 26.76% We talk about high and low turnout wards, but the numbers tell a complicated story of wide precinct level swings in turnout. In my home Ward 2 - the highest turnout and two of the lowest are in the Ward. A shout out to my neighbors in my home precinct (W2 P2) for leading the city in turnout. Any theories about the outliers as to why they are so high or low? Part of the problem I have in interpreting the results is that I'm not as aware of the different precinct boundaries, but those of you who live in these precincts might offer theories as to why. aaron klemz cooper W2 P2 Voter +++ Aaron Klemz, Minneapolis, Minnesota [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Primary Turnout
Greg Abbott notes: The results tell me that chronic voters (people who vote in every election, rain or shine) have a slight preference for Rybak. But given that turnout in the general election will more than double, perhaps even triple, from the primary, drawing any conclusions from Tuesday's results is a fool's errand. I would be shocked if the vote tripled. In 2001, 59,000 folks voted in the primary, 89,000 in the general - a 50 percent jump. Granted, this year's turnout (33,500) was a lot lower, so the bump may be higher. But tripling this year's number would mean 100,000 general election votes - 11,000 more than four years ago. One interesting note: despite the sad, sad turnout in the 2005 city primary, the 33,500 souls who trooped to the polls were more than in than the 2002 primary (32,869) or the 2004 primary (22,766). Those were state elections; there were no city races save the school board. Final thing: while no one would ever - EVER - pay me to crunch numbers for a campaign, I looked the last three campaigns to see how much a ward's percentage gained or shrunk from the primary to the general. Using that history and my own guesswork, I projected how much a precinct's slice of the electorate would change. For example, I expect Ward 4, which provided 4 percent of the primary votes, to provide 5 percent in the general election. In order, Wards 5, 4, 6 and 3 will gain the most share, while Wards 13, 1, 12 and 7 will lose the most. Despite having a smaller piece of the general election pie than in the primary, Ward 13 will still be the biggest piece: it will have the highest turnout, as it has in every election of the 2000s. By my guess, Peter should gain as his wards historically gain share in a general election. Assuming Hakeem votes split 50/50, and so do non-primary voters who show up Nov. 8, Peter would get 45.3 percent of the vote and RT would get 54.7 percent. That compares to 44.7/55.4 in the primary, if you exclude votes for everyone else. Of course, no one knows what any voting group will do, so keep this for laffs later on. David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Nope, as my insulin taking Mother found out when visiting here last year. She could get her insulin refilled, but her prescription for the syringes had run out so she could not get the very tool needed to take the insulin the pharmacy sold her. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Constance wrote: In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] re: best and worst turnout
There's a good reason for the low turnout in W2 P4 and W2 P11: the vast majority of both precincts' residents are U students living in dorms. They moved into their residences between the 3rd and 5th of September, less than thirty days before the primary, and were therefore legally prohibited from voting. The high turnout in W2 P2 is also relatively straightforward: both primary frontrunners are well known there. The north end (eastern Seward) knows Cam from his years of neighborhood activism and was his 2001 base. The south end (Cooper) is the neighborhood surrounding Cara's home. Both candidates got more votes in 2-2 than in any other precinct. Robin Garwood Campaign Manager, Neighbors for Cam Gordon Seward REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
I don't understand what the problem is selling a pipe or such. It's not causing people to go out buy drugs and smoke them. If someone wants to use crack they're going to find a way to do it whether it is with tin foil and a straw or with a light bulb. Now if you could buy crack at your local neighborhood store that might be something to take issue with. I don't think hiding paraphernalia is going to lessen the use of crack. It's not addressing the actual issue of drug use. Also, it's not the same as restricting the sale of sudafed (or at least tracking its sale) because that is used to make the actual illegal substance. And you can still easily buy it, it's you can't buy massive quantities of it all at once. Matthew Philip The Wedge -Original Message- From: Leurquin, Ronald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Constance Nompelis [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mpls@mnforum.org Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:16:41 -0400 Subject: RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store Nope, as my insulin taking Mother found out when visiting here last year. She could get her insulin refilled, but her prescription for the syringes had run out so she could not get the very tool needed to take the insulin the pharmacy sold her. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Constance wrote: In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Restricting the sale of Sudafed is an effort to curb drug use by making production harder. Why not apply the curb to the paraphernalia used to take the drugs too? Sudafed access affects everyone, good or evil. Crack pipe access only affects the crack users. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Matthew wrote: I don't understand what the problem is selling a pipe or such. It's not causing people to go out buy drugs and smoke them. If someone wants to use crack they're going to find a way to do it whether it is with tin foil and a straw or with a light bulb. Now if you could buy crack at your local neighborhood store that might be something to take issue with. I don't think hiding paraphernalia is going to lessen the use of crack. It's not addressing the actual issue of drug use. Also, it's not the same as restricting the sale of sudafed (or at least tracking its sale) because that is used to make the actual illegal substance. And you can still easily buy it, it's you can't buy massive quantities of it all at once. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Having crack pipes in these corner stores is one of the ways in which the owners essentially support the drug dealers and crackheads. Another way is by allowing them to congregate out in front of the stores. There have been several shootings around Lake and Park recently... my realtor actually witnessed a driveby on that very intersection when he was coming to my house. Why was the person shooting there? Most likely because one of the idiots milling around outside of the store was some competition to his business... This lawlessness has to stop. I am fed up with the violence and everyone knows that a big part of the problem is drugs and the huge sums of money involved. In a perfect world I would be libertarian and say let people do what they want to their own bodies... but this world ain't perfect and the drug dealers are shooting each other over turf and $$$ and the crack pipes, hood stores, and blase attitudes of stores owners are contributing to the madness. Connie Nompelis West Phillips and Powderhorn --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand what the problem is selling a pipe or such. It's not causing people to go out buy drugs and smoke them. If someone wants to use crack they're going to find a way to do it whether it is with tin foil and a straw or with a light bulb. Now if you could buy crack at your local neighborhood store that might be something to take issue with. I don't think hiding paraphernalia is going to lessen the use of crack. It's not addressing the actual issue of drug use. Also, it's not the same as restricting the sale of sudafed (or at least tracking its sale) because that is used to make the actual illegal substance. And you can still easily buy it, it's you can't buy massive quantities of it all at once. Matthew Philip The Wedge -Original Message- From: Leurquin, Ronald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Constance Nompelis [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mpls@mnforum.org Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:16:41 -0400 Subject: RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store Nope, as my insulin taking Mother found out when visiting here last year. She could get her insulin refilled, but her prescription for the syringes had run out so she could not get the very tool needed to take the insulin the pharmacy sold her. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Constance wrote: In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Leurquin, Ronald wrote: Restricting the sale of Sudafed is an effort to curb drug use by making production harder. Why not apply the curb to the paraphernalia used to take the drugs too? Sudafed access affects everyone, good or evil. Crack pipe access only affects the crack users. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East This is something I do not understand. Sudafed is made of tiny beads of drugs, only some of which are the ones used in making meth. Who sits around and separates all those little beads into the ones that work and the ones that don't? Or do they even separate them? Or is every dose of meth a dose of sudafed too? WizardMarks, Central REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Primary Turnout
I need to correct myself, thanks to the insight of a more politically experienced list member. To recap: Greg Abbott notes: given that turnout in the general election will more than double, perhaps even triple, from the primary, drawing any conclusions from Tuesday's results is a fool's errand. Then I wrote: I would be shocked if the vote tripled. In 2001, 59,000 folks voted in the primary, 89,000 in the general - a 50 percent jump. Granted, this year's turnout (33,500) was a lot lower, so the bump may be higher. But tripling this year's number would mean 100,000 general election votes - 11,000 more than four years ago. The experienced operative remembered that '01 was a low-turnout general election, Even though we all remember the fascinating scrum of a primary, the general was apparently quite lackluster, historically. To wit: in the '97 general, 96,700 people voted. Only 30,000 people voted in the primary - so the vote total more than tripled in the general. In '93, 104,626 voted. 51,000 voted in the primary - a doubling between primary and general So ... '01 was an unusual year (out of the last three city elections anyway). Primary participation was far higher, and general election turnout was 10-15 percent lower. I have to conclude that a tripling could happen this year, and Greg was right to mention it as a possibility. David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Low and High Turnout: More Complete
Hi List - Well, I posted this morning, and got some great responses, but I thought maybe I should do more homework on the questions that I posed myself instead of being lazy. Several folks pointed out that the top 3 in low turnout were U dominated wards with students that may not have been eligible to vote. Wards 4 and 5 were overrepresented on the low turnout list, and since neither had an active primary for council, that shouldn't be too surprising. Wards 8, 10, 12 and 13 were generally high turnout. There is definitely a strong correlation between income and turnout, with some notable exceptions. Anyway, here are the top twenty high and low turnout precincts with neighborhoods this time for some better location context. I actually learned a lot compiling this list about neighborhood boundaries. Twenty Highest Turnout Precincts ( 21%) 1) W2 P2 32.13% N. Cooper / E. Seward 2) W7 P2 29.55% Kenwood 3) W8 P7 28.81% S. King Field 4) W13P6 27.39% Lynnhurst 5) W13P7 26.76% East Harriet 6) W13P2 26.69% N. Linden Hills 7) W2 P1 26.14% W. Seward 8) W13P4 25.84% N. Fulton 9) W8 P4 24.90% S. Powderhorn Park 10)W10P8 24.77% East Harriet 11)W8 P2 23.35% N. Powderhorn Park 12)W10P10 22.90% East Isles 13)W8 P8 22.44% Bancroft 14)W8P10 22.39% Field - Regina 15)W10P3 22.25% ECCO 16)W9 P9 22.03% E. Howe 17)W13P5 22.00% S. Fulton 18)W12P3 21.57% N. Hiawatha 19)W6 P7 21.55% N. Phillips West 20)W9 P2 21.01% Longfellow Twenty Lowest Turnout Precincts ( 7.3%) 1) W2 P4 0.78% University 2) W3 P1 2.14% E. Marcy Holmes 3) W2P11 2.26% University 4) W5 P7 5.12% S. Willard-Hay 5) W4 P9 5.14% N. Folwell 6) W5 P6 5.69% Harrison / Sumner 7) W4P10 5.90% S. Folwell 8) W3 P7 6.27% McKinley 9) W4 P8 6.28% Cleveland 10) W5P8 6.60% S. Jordan 11) W7P10 6.70% Elliot Park 12) W5 P2 6.73% N. Jordan 13) W1 P7 6.76% Como 14) W5 P9 6.84% North Loop / Near North 15) W3 P2 7.08% W. Marcy Holmes 16) W5 P3 7.11% Near North / Old Highland 16) W6 P1 7.11% S. Whittier 18) W4 P5 7.18% W. Webber-Camden 18) W7 P9 7.18% Downtown West / Loring Park 20) W4 P6 7.30% E. Webber-Camden I hope I got all the neighborhoods right. best, aaron klemz budding election returns geek - cooper +++ Aaron Klemz, Minneapolis, Minnesota [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
On 9/16/05, Constance Nompelis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a perfect world I would be libertarian and say let people do what they want to their own bodies... but this world ain't perfect and the drug dealers are shooting each other over turf and $$$ and the crack pipes, hood stores, and blase attitudes of stores owners are contributing to the madness. If the problem is drug dealers shooting each other and other people over turf and $$$, then banning crack pipes or other paraphernalia from corner stores isn't going to accomplish anything. Users and dealers aren't prevented or encouraged to use or sell drugs based on whether you can go into a store and buy a pipe, syringe, etc. There isn't anybody out there that is thinking, I would start doing drugs if only I could buy a pipe, but since I can't I won't! On the other hand, if that corner store sold the drugs themselves, then all the dealers would disappear, driven out of business by a higher quality and cheaper product. If the elimination of drug turf wars is the goal, then we should talk with our city and state leaders about ending this irrational War on Drugs. I haven't heard of too many shootings over tobacco and alcohol turf wars. -- Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Nathan Writes: If the problem is drug dealers shooting each other and other people over turf and $$$, then banning crack pipes or other paraphernalia from corner stores isn't going to accomplish anything. Users and dealers aren't prevented or encouraged to use or sell drugs based on whether you can go into a store and buy a pipe, syringe, etc. There isn't anybody out there that is thinking, I would start doing drugs if only I could buy a pipe, but since I can't I won't! On the other hand, if that corner store sold the drugs themselves, then all the dealers would disappear, driven out of business by a higher quality and cheaper product. If the elimination of drug turf wars is the goal, then we should talk with our city and state leaders about ending this irrational War on Drugs. I haven't heard of too many shootings over tobacco and alcohol turf wars. Dennis Plante Responds: And how exactly would this solve the problem of disadvantage citizens earning a living illegally? Take away their income and my guess is they'fdmove-on to something equally illegal and just as damaging to society. dennis plante lind-bohanon REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Low and High Turnout: More Complete
Aaron, I recommend that if you are serious about trying to figure out turnout, you add into your thought proceses home ownership versus apartments. That variable may be leading you to think you are seeing affluence versus lack thereof. Actually both factors are probably relevant. Transients are less likely to be grounded in local elections, while they are almost as likely to perceive their stake in national and even state elections. My two cents... Earl Netwal Nokomis east. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Klemz Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 5:10 PM To: mpls@mnforum.org Subject: [Mpls] Low and High Turnout: More Complete Hi List - Well, I posted this morning, and got some great responses, but I thought maybe I should do more homework on the questions that I posed myself instead of being lazy. Several folks pointed out that the top 3 in low turnout were U dominated wards with students that may not have been eligible to vote. Wards 4 and 5 were overrepresented on the low turnout list, and since neither had an active primary for council, that shouldn't be too surprising. Wards 8, 10, 12 and 13 were generally high turnout. There is definitely a strong correlation between income and turnout, with some notable exceptions. Anyway, here are the top twenty high and low turnout precincts with neighborhoods this time for some better location context. I actually learned a lot compiling this list about neighborhood boundaries. Twenty Highest Turnout Precincts ( 21%) 1) W2 P2 32.13% N. Cooper / E. Seward 2) W7 P2 29.55% Kenwood 3) W8 P7 28.81% S. King Field 4) W13P6 27.39% Lynnhurst 5) W13P7 26.76% East Harriet 6) W13P2 26.69% N. Linden Hills 7) W2 P1 26.14% W. Seward 8) W13P4 25.84% N. Fulton 9) W8 P4 24.90% S. Powderhorn Park 10)W10P8 24.77% East Harriet 11)W8 P2 23.35% N. Powderhorn Park 12)W10P10 22.90% East Isles 13)W8 P8 22.44% Bancroft 14)W8P10 22.39% Field - Regina 15)W10P3 22.25% ECCO 16)W9 P9 22.03% E. Howe 17)W13P5 22.00% S. Fulton 18)W12P3 21.57% N. Hiawatha 19)W6 P7 21.55% N. Phillips West 20)W9 P2 21.01% Longfellow Twenty Lowest Turnout Precincts ( 7.3%) 1) W2 P4 0.78% University 2) W3 P1 2.14% E. Marcy Holmes 3) W2P11 2.26% University 4) W5 P7 5.12% S. Willard-Hay 5) W4 P9 5.14% N. Folwell 6) W5 P6 5.69% Harrison / Sumner 7) W4P10 5.90% S. Folwell 8) W3 P7 6.27% McKinley 9) W4 P8 6.28% Cleveland 10) W5P8 6.60% S. Jordan 11) W7P10 6.70% Elliot Park 12) W5 P2 6.73% N. Jordan 13) W1 P7 6.76% Como 14) W5 P9 6.84% North Loop / Near North 15) W3 P2 7.08% W. Marcy Holmes 16) W5 P3 7.11% Near North / Old Highland 16) W6 P1 7.11% S. Whittier 18) W4 P5 7.18% W. Webber-Camden 18) W7 P9 7.18% Downtown West / Loring Park 20) W4 P6 7.30% E. Webber-Camden I hope I got all the neighborhoods right. best, aaron klemz budding election returns geek - cooper +++ Aaron Klemz, Minneapolis, Minnesota [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Nathan Writes: If the problem is drug dealers shooting each other and other people over turf and $$$, then banning crack pipes or other paraphernalia from corner stores isn't going to accomplish anything. Users and dealers aren't prevented or encouraged to use or sell drugs based on whether you can go into a store and buy a pipe, syringe, etc. There isn't anybody out there that is thinking, I would start doing drugs if only I could buy a pipe, but since I can't I won't! Michelle Hill responds: It may not stop the behavior, but we should not allow any stores in the community to contibute to the behavior. The problem not only lies with drug dealers shooting each other and other people over turf and $$$, It involves any activity or action that contributes to the decline of neighborhoods and overall livability. Remember, our children often go to those corner store too. Booker Hodges has written many articles, in the Spokesman-Recorder, about corner stores, to no avail. They not only sell crack pipes, baggies and weighing scales, they sell cigars in which the young people replace with Marijuana, called a blunt. They also sell expired baby formula and bad meat, and allow people to sell stolen items outside and inside the stores. I often wonder how they stay in business, with all of the complaints they receive. I know for sure that my council person knows all about those stores and the problems they cause in the community. Yet, they continue to remain open and continue to add to the decline of the community. I choose to go the extra distance to CUB FOODS to do my shopping, even though some of their prices are not much better than the corner store. Michelle Hill Cleveland REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
On 9/16/05, Dennis Plante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis Plante Responds: And how exactly would this solve the problem of disadvantage citizens earning a living illegally? Take away their income and my guess is they'fdmove-on to something equally illegal and just as damaging to society. Of course legalizing drugs wouldn't eliminate crime. Nothing can do that; as far as I know, there isn't a crime-free utopia somewhere on this planet. However, if you take away the selling of drugs, you take away a lot of gang activity. That doesn't mean that people who want to break the laws won't keep doing so. But they would probably be doing something else, like resorting to theft. Frankly, if there was a choice between stealing cars and getting into gun battles that kill innocent bystanders, I'll take the car stealing any day. What can reverse the decline of neighborhoods? Clearly, the current plan to simply throw users into jail doesn't cut it. What we are doing now is not working. This is also why I don't see how public safety can be a big issue in the upcoming elections, at least for mayor. Neither Rybak nor McLaughlin are proposing anything that will actually change the drug problem other than to perhaps nibble away at the edges. No new ideas at all. It seems pretty simple to me: if there aren't people demanding drugs from gang members, then there won't be any violent gang members to sell those drugs. Until somebody comes up with a good idea that eliminates the demand from the drug dealers, not much is going to change. -- Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
You know what? I've had this conversation - (to legalize or not to legalize?) at many a cocktail party and upscale restaurant gathering... it's nice and philosophical but frankly I don't have the ear of the President or the Senate so it ain't changing in Minneapolis this week. I have learned that this academic discussion about the root of the problem (nat'l policy, poverty, race issues, etc.) is of very little assistance to the people living with gunfire and death and addiction and hoplessness around the corner... I really don't want to see this conversation degrade into the typical us-against-them-in-the-nice-hoods kind of debate, but I have to say that we can't afford to screw around with philosophy when it's not going to change anything about what's really going on at this moment. I say: let's get rid of the dang pipes for now, and I'll write a thousand letters to DC about drug policy tomorrow. Connie Nompelis Pretty agitated with kids running up and down my dangerous street in WEST PHILLIPS P.S. Booker has indeed brought this topic up before, and I followed his commentary with interest. He's got a lot of good points. I don't want to squelch business at all (I'm exceedingly pro-business in general) but I can't handle this violence anymore. Something's gotta give. --- Nathan Hunstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/16/05, Dennis Plante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis Plante Responds: And how exactly would this solve the problem of disadvantage citizens earning a living illegally? Take away their income and my guess is they'fdmove-on to something equally illegal and just as damaging to society. Of course legalizing drugs wouldn't eliminate crime. Nothing can do that; as far as I know, there isn't a crime-free utopia somewhere on this planet. However, if you take away the selling of drugs, you take away a lot of gang activity. That doesn't mean that people who want to break the laws won't keep doing so. But they would probably be doing something else, like resorting to theft. Frankly, if there was a choice between stealing cars and getting into gun battles that kill innocent bystanders, I'll take the car stealing any day. What can reverse the decline of neighborhoods? Clearly, the current plan to simply throw users into jail doesn't cut it. What we are doing now is not working. This is also why I don't see how public safety can be a big issue in the upcoming elections, at least for mayor. Neither Rybak nor McLaughlin are proposing anything that will actually change the drug problem other than to perhaps nibble away at the edges. No new ideas at all. It seems pretty simple to me: if there aren't people demanding drugs from gang members, then there won't be any violent gang members to sell those drugs. Until somebody comes up with a good idea that eliminates the demand from the drug dealers, not much is going to change. -- Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Felien on Zimmerman
What did Dean do wrong? By Ed Felien http://www.pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=2052 Shawne FitzGerald Powderhorn REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Politics in Minnesota on the Mpls mayor's race
Note: this is published by Republican Sarah Janecek, who lives in Minneapolis, and DFLer Blois Olson. See www.politicsinminnesota.com: Across the River...Where the Mayor System is Weak. Two middle-aged white guys running against each other. Both from south Minneapolis (the political stronghold of the city). Both have liberal roots, both with pet issues, and neither with anything too distinguishing. Welcome to what people might expect out of St. Paul - instead it's Minneapolis. While Mayor RT Rybak was the clear choice of Minneapolitans for change four years ago, today he faces a tighter reelection. Rybak hasn't raised the funds he needs, and he has lost his ability to excite the city, something he campaigned well on in 2001. Meanwhile, Peter McLaughlin can take credit for the wildly successful light rail line which he championed for the county. For Republicans in the city, McLaughlin is the lesser of two evils, and many moderate Republicans openly support him, in part, as recognition for his solid work in public policy for twenty plus years. Tuesday's primary was something that people expected, the two guys would split the vast majority of the vote and move onto the general. But last week's ads launched by the police union leave Rybak without distinguishing issues or a clear message. He is responding and reacting, not driving his own message. While Minneapolis is also going to be close, and there is a good chance of another incumbent losing, it is clear that the contrast isn't quite the same as good 'ole St. Paul. The Muck That is Minneapolis City Government Seemingly lost in the Minneapolis mayor's race is the elephant in the room. That elephant is the sorry, sleazy state of city politics. Anonymous Source author Dan Cohen writes eloquently about it. Is Cohen the only person to be seriously struck by three Minneapolis City Council members taking bribes? He could not be more right: the Byzantine system of Minneapolis government plus the one-sided political nature of the affair is a fertile breeding ground for corruption. Months ago, the Star Tribune editorial board did a fabulous job dissecting all that's structurally wrong in city government. Unfortunately, nothing came of the reform series. Predictably, those invested in the current system wrote counter opinion pieces defending their turf. One of your publishers had a follow-up conversation with Cohen about why the hometown newspaper had no impact on revamping city government. Cohen argues two points. First, the series by the paper's editorial board provided a far too detailed proposal, giving opponents the opportunity to pick it apart. Second, and at some risk of offending our friends on the Star Tribune editorial board, in Cohen's words, they researched and wrote it with journalistic hubris...They did it all by their little selves, with no input or fingerprints from any other interest group in the community. Meaning, no one else in town had a stake in promoting reform. Again, Cohen is right. Forwarded by David Brauer, list manager REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store.....better answers
I'll concede that we're not going to take the profits (and the killing) out of the illicit drug trade without getting the Feds on board, but until that happens, we have to do something. I'd like the list to consider a Force 5 Hurricane analogy; since the udder night, Dubya seems more than willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to save face after the failure of FEMA to act before and after Katrina hit, so Why not deal with a drug storm of much greater proportions? For a little perspective, the Office of National Drug Control Policy budget for this year is $12.2 billion. No state or local government entity deals specifically or entirely with drug crimes, but I would suspect a hypothetical line item to be an infinitesimally small fraction of what NDCP spends. Compare it to what we spend on Homeland Security, $40.2 billion for '05, let alone the unfunded mandates for state and local governments, and what is actually spent on a problem that is directly connected with terrorism seems an obscenely small amount. So what do we do as a municipality short of legalizing or decriminalizing drugs? Regulating or outlawing drug paraphernalia is a pitifully small thing to do as some list contributors have pointed out. I've half jokingly suggested vice asylums not so long ago and I believe Wizard Marks suggested some sort of Devil's Island at Fort Ripley a few weeks back, and I think one way of focusing the Feds on the problem might be free drug zones (as opposed to drug free zones). Convicted drug offenders in the Metro should be given a choice of entering the conventional corrections system or move to Drug Town, and all the seized drugs from evidence rooms or the partipating cities and counties in the Metro should go with them. No segregation either: whether you're a poor minority offender from the inner city or a rich or middle class offender from the 'burbs, you have the same choice. We should focus on treatment and let the Feds go to Drug Town to do the lion's share of drug enforcement on their own. My preference would be to have it somewheres in Anoka or Dakota Counties, but I'm open to other possible sites. If Dubya can rebuild New Orleans for several billion dollars, I think we can build a Drug Town or two for a few million, fence them, perhaps even mine their perimeters, and wait for a US Federal Government that can give up the present ineffective approach to what is essentially an economic and public health problem. Bill Kahn not certain if I'm joking in Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Many times I have heard people on this list say the drug problems we are currently experiencing on the streets of a select group of neighborhoods in Mpls. would all just go away if drugs were legalized. You are absolutely correct. However, they aren't legal and as a result streets like mine have been the supermarkets for them. With all due respect it feels almost condescending to hear people from neighborhoods that do not experience this travesty to say if they were legal the problem would go away. While we are waiting for the wisdom of the many people who do not live with this problem in their daily lives to see the light and push for national legislative changes to our archaic drug laws, I choose not to tolerate the violence and livability issues caused by out of control crack, heroine or meth addicts that terrorize our streets. I also view it as a big slap in the face and counterproductive disconnect when the corner store by my house sells crack pipes or other drug paraphenalia. I know it's not going to encourage or discourage drug use. But, why make it so dang convenient for them? I am irritated that the store owner would be that blatant about their lack of concern for the neighborhood they are doing business in. None of the dozen or more owners of the corner store by my house live anywhere near this neighborhood. They leave here at night and go to the comfort of their home in the suburbs somewhere or in a neighborhood that doesn't contend with drug problems. My history with the corner store owners that sell drug paraphanelia is that in all likelihood they are also selling drugs under the counter, fencing stolen goods, running prostitutes, commiting EBT fraud and other livability crimes. I am not making a general statement about every corner store in Mpls. I am just stating that my personal experience with the store by my house has been that where there is smoke, there is fire. Barb Lickness Whittier Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
It is actually illegal to sell drug paraphenalia in Mpls. If you go into Electric Fetus where they sell tobacco smoking products and mention that you might use that product to consume an illicit drug the employees in the store have been instructed not to sell them to you. My neice used to work at the Fetus, that is how I know about it. The drug paraphenalia sold in the corner stores are not marketed as crack pipes. They are marketed for use with tobacco or for other uses. They could not sell them if they marketed them directly as drug paraphenalia. Barb Lickness Whittier Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
