Re: [Mpls] Samuels on New Orleans, Johnson Lee
Unfortunately Michelle, what you've illustrated is the lack of attention to detail or perhaps even laziness on the part of some of the FORMER staff of the Empowerment Zone. What you'll notice at the bottom of that document is the year 2003, which is when the Small Grants program was started. When this document was written, I believe the individual either didn't realize the that the City Council was not a part of the process or once clarified that this was not a step in the process, did not remove that. It is an inaccurate statement and shoddy administrative work not to have removed it or updated it in 2 years. Which is why when I took over in December 2004 I made sure that the guidelines were updated. You can find them on our website (www.ci.minneapolis. mn.us\ez) and will notice they do not have this step. It should not have been listed on the guidelines, but having it written in there or removed does not change the outcome of the process and does not prove your point. What would prove your point is a copy of a City Council agenda or action showing that the Small Grants were brought forward for approval. All of the Council agendas and actions are available on the City website at http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/council/. You can review them at your leisure but you will notice that the Small Grants program does not appear, because it does not go to them for approval as I have previously stated. The document you have, therefore, and not the information I have presented, is inaccurate. The fault, however, also lies with the EZ Your friends situation illustrates why there was a need to clarify and revise the guidelines. As was stated before, the Small Grants program began in 2003 with the original intent of complementing the EZ Small Business loans and technical assistance programs already existing. The original intent was for the Small Grants to be for non-profits as there was no consistent funding mechanism for smaller organizations besides businesses through the EZ except in response to RFPs. The Board saw the need to assist non-profits and smaller projects and the idea for the Small Grant program was born. Unfortunately, as has already been pointed out, the guidelines didn't clarify the fact that the program was for nonprofits. As such it left a loophole for the Empowerment Zone to be approached by two businesses in June of 2004. This raised the question for the Board and they directed the staff to review the feasibility of extending the Small Grants program to include businesses and return with a recommendation. After much discussion and consideration of the capacity of the EZ to review and analyze business proposals and track them, as well as the impact this would have on undermining the current Small Business initiatives the Executive Committee, based on the recommendation of staff, decided not to set aside grants funds for business or include them in the Small Grant program. This was approved at the August 12, 2004. Which would account for your friend's September letter. While it was not stated that being a for-profit was a reason for declination, neither were any of the other reasons. This, again, has been added to the guidelines to try to make things as clear as possible, and why we also provide free technical assistance through the Office of Grants and Special projects to keep people from investing their time only to find out their ineligible. As you can see, we make revisions and quality improvements at every step that we can to ensure the best quality of service. As you have not named your friends business I cannot verify any other information that you claim. Originally, you stated that Don had given her a letter of support, now you state that she has a letter of support from her Council Member and that Don was there offering letters of support, which indicates that the letter is not from him. Whether he was actually offering letters of support is for Don to clarify, but without an actual letter of support it's secondhand rumor at best. More importantly, I hope this whole thing will lay to rest the misinformation that Don wrote letters of support and then vetoed the proposals, as one is unsubstantiated and the other is impossible. Finally, I answered your question about El-Amin's Fish House in my last email, let me know if you don't see it and I'll repost it. The Empowerment Zone is funding the Minneapolis Urban League for its Uhuru program, the Director of which is Spike Moss. And I don't know all of the businesses that Basim is connected to so without a name, I cannot accurately answer your question. I do know that in 2001 a proposal for an intiative that he was driving was considered but that ultimately it didn't meet the minimum requirements and was not funded. As for who was benefited from EZ funds, I would once again
Re: [Mpls] Samuels on New Orleans, Johnson Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When the community asked for Empowerment Zone money to create jobs and opportunities CP Samuels vetoed them, after giving them letters of support. Michelle, While I will not be entering the debate on who is a better candidate, Don or Natalie, as I like and respect both of them and wish we could have both on the Council, I would like to point out that you have raised the point above on the list before back in May and that I provided you with the correct information back then. This statement above is inaccurate. Don did not and CANNOT veto any proposals to the Empowerment Zone. You're original post can be found here: http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2005-May/041432.html. It's a May 21, 2005 posting entitled Response to socialiost2001, and your specific statement was: Council Person Don Samuel met with several people with Business proposal at the UL. Even after giving letters of recommendation, Mr. Samuels voted not to approve. My response can be found here:http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2005-May/041436.html. It is the same date with the same title as yours, and my response was: The proposals you mentioned were small business startup proposals submitted to the Small Grants program, they were ineligible based on not being non-profits, and further, many did not have business plans or other sources of funding. The recommendation and information was presented by the Staff to the full 30-member board, which approved the declination.Don could not single handedly turn them down even if they were eligible. I explained this to Booker when I met with him in December. I believe Booker has another editorial in the Spokesman which states this again, and I am really concerned that despite my clarifying this, people still make the same false accusation. Whatever reasons anyone has for disliking Don, this should not be one of them, because it is completely and utterly false. Don not only did not veto them, he CANNOT veto them, even if they were eligible proposals, which they were not. The proposals for the samll grants are reviewed and recommended by staff and brought to the full board, no one person can veto them. If you have any questions regarding the Empowerment Zone or it's workings, please feel free to contact me directly by email or phone or through this forum. I am happy to explain any situation and provide the correct information. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Samuels on New Orleans, Johnson Lee
Michelle, I think that either someone is providing you with incorrect information or you may have the Empowerment Zone confused with some other program. The Small Grants program does not go to the City Council for approval. By City requirement, allocations over $50K have to be done through a Request For Proposal (RFP) and have to go to the City Council for approval. The Small Grants allocation maximum is $25K, the Small Grants, therefore, do not go through the City Council, and neither Samuels nor any other City Council Member would have voted on them at the Council. The Council does get other funding allocation requests and that may be what you're thinking of. RFP recommendation do come to the City Council, but before that there is an independent Review Committee that reads the proposals and makes its recommendation (as a group of fundees), the staff then reviews and brings forward the recommendation to the Executive Committee which reviews and decides whether or not to approve the recommendation. If upheld, it is forwarded to the full Board for approval. If upheld there, it is forwarded to the Ways and Means Committee. If upheld there it is forwarded to the full Council. This recommendation is always a group (i.e. out of the 60 proposals we received we recommend these 10) and only entails those being recommended. The only level that really considers individual proposals is the Review Committee. Individual RFP proposals are not brought forward to the Board one by one. Therefore, neither Don nor any Board Member could vote against any individual proposal. Further, we generally do not get the Board members writing recommendations for Empowerment Zone proposals, and I have never seen one from Don or any other Board member that I can recall. I am concerned now that someone may be putting out false letters of support. If you want to provide me with your friend's name or business, I would be happy to investigate it and report back as to whether we have ever received the proposal or the letter of recommendation or if it is, in fact, false. As to why people were not told that they needed to be nonprofits, first of all, it is only the Small Grants program that is reserved for non-profits (this was explained in my May post), for profits are eligible for the small business resources, tax credits and the RFPs. Second, the meetings hosted at the Urban League were not hosted or coordinated by the Empowerment Zone, but rather a group of individuals who represented themselves as experts on the Empowerment Zone, but in truth were not. As such, we cannot control nor should we be held responsible for what a group of individuals decides to do on their own. It does a disservice to individuals such as your friend who get the wrong information presented to them and then end up getting hurt because someone gave them this incorrect information and they followed it. I attended a couple of these meetings and did not see any Council Members there, however, none of the sitting Council Members were involved in the original designation of the Empowerment Zone, and only Ostrow and Samuels of the current group have sat on the Board or are involved. Therefore I would not expect any of the others to be experts or know the ins and outs of the Empowerment Zone. Lastly, I have never told anyone that I would help people get low interest loans, that then turn out not to be. If you've heard me on the radio, then it has been recently, and what I've said has been that the Empowerment Zone loans have regular interest rates (10%), but they take a chance on individuals who are a riskier investment (i.e. those with the low credit scores or resources). In fact, through this program 79 EZ businesses have gotten loans of up to $50K which have created or retained 253 jobs and 4,667 technical assistance hours have been provided over 846 entrepreneurial visits, for various services such as business planning, bookkeeping, and lease negotiations. Cafe Tatta Bunna is an excellent example of a business we have worked hard to get started. What I have changed in my tenure has been to negotiate with our lenders to lower their interest rates to 7% and give 6 months deferments (this will rollout this month) as well as to refer people to our Business Finance department which has resources such as a 2% matching loan that goes up to $75K, this would not take the same risk that the Empowerment Zone lenders do, however. There are not areas that are already thriving that receive Empowerment Zone funds, ours are targeted at the key impacted areas and work to improve them. And we have a mix of loans, grants, tax credits and bonding authority the form of which depends on the program and the entity applying. El-Amin's Fish House, for example, is a business and was awarded a loan through the 2003 Commercial
Re: [Mpls] More overpersonalization of posts
Jim and List, I had meant this as good-natured ribbing to someone who I've agreed with at times and disagreed with at other times, but always with at least my understanding that it was intellectual sparring and never an attempt to malign him. My intent was never to overpersonalize or in any way be a serious insult to Jim. Jim, I sincerely apologize to you personally for my indiscretion and hope you will take it in the spirit it was meant. If you want to discuss it further, please feel free to email me offlist or give me a call. I will refrain in the future from overpersonalization. My apologies as well to anyone on the list that was offended or caused undue stress by my posting. Jonathan Palmer Victory -Original Message- From: List Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mpls@mnforum.org Sent: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:09:57 -0500 Subject: [Mpls] More overpersonalization of posts Another, clearer example of same overpersonalization. Please stop, everyone! David Brauer List manager -Original Message- Ahh, Jim. I have missed the opportunity to discuss and debate with someone of your caliber. You are probably the only person on the forum who writes longer and denser posts than me (or at least run equal to) and it's always a joy to exchange thoughts, especially when you're wrong. I did, however, expect you to be able to write your own posts rather than rewrite mine, but it's probably more difficult to come up with original material. Let me know if you need help coming up with your own phrases and colloquilisms, I've got a couple in my spare pocket. ;-) And while we're on the subject of utilizing power and influence, you must have missed ... REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Rybak retort to Minneapolis Police Federation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Criticizing someone for failing to condemn someone's else's behavior is a form of guilt by association frequently used by right-wing blogs to imply, for example, that all liberals secretly support Saddam Hussein (while else would they have failed to condemn Saddam's human rights violation). It is a very poor form of argument designed to change the subject. JP: Greg, where you talking about your post or mine here? Because my point was the hypocrisy of McLaughlin supporters criticizing him for sending police to New Orleans, but not criticizing the County, which I think you'll remember Peter is on of the Commissioner's of, about sending Sheriff Department personnel down. It is hypocritical to only criticize one action if your concern is truly about public safety resources. I'm not sure why you don't see this, but your point is in accurate and illogical. And it seems designed to change the subject. GA: And what, if any, responsibility for law enforcement within the boundaries of Minneapolis does the County Sheriff have? JP: The Sheriff is, by state statute, the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the County and is the only elected law enforcement official in the criminal justice system. Hennepin County has had an elected sheriff since 1852. This is from the County's website. And last I checked, Minneapolis was in Hennepin County, and seeing as how they have done investigations for the MPD, assisted in law enforcement efforts and the County also has the jail and the Probation Officers who work hand in hand with Police Officers to do law enforcement, I'd say the County has a heck of lot to do with law enforcement in Minneapolis. I would think any attorney such as yourself would be aware of this. Any Country Commissioner too. And so I'm still not sure why Peter hasn't been garnering more resources law enforcement within the County system, since it's one of his top priorities. Do you? Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Rybak retort to Minneapolis Police Federation
Ahh, Jim. I have missed the opportunity to discuss and debate with someone of your caliber. You are probably the only person on the forum who writes longer and denser posts than me (or at least run equal to) and it's always a joy to exchange thoughts, especially when you're wrong. I did, however, expect you to be able to write your own posts rather than rewrite mine, but it's probably more difficult to come up with original material. Let me know if you need help coming up with your own phrases and colloquilisms, I've got a couple in my spare pocket. ;-) On to the matters at hand. Just like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth didn't endorse Bush and explicitly said they were not for any candidate (or maybe it was anybody but Kerry), it was apparent that their message was designed specifically to support Bush, if for no other reason than he was Kerry's main political rival. Just as Delmonico's Anybody but Rybak is designed to benefit his main political rival, Peter. The only people who seem to be questioning this are those who support Peter. No, Delmonico never openly endorses Peter, but I also never said he did. He does utilize a tragedy to further Peter's campaign agenda, which, in case you were not paying attention to the stumping you've been doing for him, is to defeat Rybak. Use rhetoric all you want Jim, but it's clear to everyone paying attention that this is parallel to the Swift Boat ads, and if you really, truly believe that this is about supporting ANYBODY but RT, then you are not the brilliant political mind that I have come to know and respect and I'll have to rethink my assessment. But on to campaign tactics, you said that mostly supporters visit Peter's campaign website and that he's posting the food drive where it will have the most impact on people he will have the most influence over...if it's mostly supporters, couldn't you just send out an email like Barb did for you all? I would think you'd have a network together for supporters that you could contact directly, but if it's not about campaigning and really about influence, wouldn't his page on the County website: 1. be seen by more people supporter or not, and 2. serve as an additional way of getting the word out if you did both sites? My point with all of this, is that I don't see the COMMISSIONER using his influence or doing anything, I see the CANDIDATE. The more ways to get the word out the better. Tattoo it on supporters foreheads if it will help victims, but shouldn't Peter as the Commissioner be doing something, especially if his supporters are going to criticize Rybak's efforts? I'm just saying, he's in a pretty powerful position, it would be real helpful to have him working on things... And while we're on the subject of utilizing power and influence, you must have missed the meeting because it was Rybak who lobbied for the restoration of some LGA which has led to the 71 more cops. It was legislators and few other individuals who made this happen, but RT has never claimed sole credit for it. He does deserve credit for getting it done and making the case, just as the others involved deserve credit for their part. The bottom line is MORE COPs, which is one of the issues that you've been railing about Jim. Yet, now you don't like that we have more cops because RT had something to do with it now? I don't care if the Easter Bunny negotiated the deal, I'm happy that we have more public safety resources and I'm surprised you or anyone else would criticize that. I'm not going caricature Peter like you have with RT, because I would rather credit him for his work him rather than paying false compliments as you've done with RT. Peter has done a good job as a County Commissioner, I haven't supported everything he's done, but no politician is perfect. But credit where credit is due. He did make things like the light rail happen and was instrumental in the Phillips Partnership, but Jim you do the Mayor and yourself a disservice when you deny his accomplishments and those of his administration. Significant efforts have reached fruition due to his leadership and under his watch, and you have to give him credit, because if he and his administration have been as ineffective as you state, all of the projects underway in the last 4 years would have stalled or completely broken down. Midtown Exchange will open this December with it's Global Market, Minneapolis has a Police Chief who understands and relates to impacted communities, especially those of color, a Civil Rights Director who's streamlining processes to make them more effective and helpful. The City is doing huge things in employment, not the least of which is the Northside Job Connection. Thy City's opened a Safety Center in the heart of one of the most troubled neighborhoods in the City with 5 Probation Officers and have
Re: [Mpls] Rybak retort to Minneapolis Police Federation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't think John Delmonico owes anyone an apology. He is speaking the truth as he sees it. No, what he is doing is utilizing a tragedy that is fresh in the minds of Minneapolitans to further Peter's campaign agenda. It is the type of cheap theatric and emotional slight of hand that has become the hallmark of Peter's campaign and it is disrespectful to those of us with friends and loved ones in New Orleans and along the Gulf Coast. It is preying upon people's fears for political gain is beneath anyone who is in position of public authority or representation. I am amazed that anyone would stoop so low as to exploit this, more amazed that anyone would attempt to defend it instead of merely being quiet and hoping that such a tawdry ploy would blow over. And while we're on the subject of cheap campaign ploys and inconsistencies, why is it that McLaughlin supporters will criticize RT for sending police officers down, but aren't complaining about the County Sheriff staff that are going down? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? More importantly, what is COMMISSIONER McLaughlin doing to help the efforts? Oh I saw, CANDIDATE McLaughlin's food drive announcement, and I've seen what the County as a unit is doing, but I haven't seen anything about the COMMISSIONER, public official for the County, doing for relief, but maybe I just missed it while I was busy working on helping survivors. RT, meanwhile, has partnered with the faith community to make the Minneapolis Relief Fund. You know why? Because he's doing his job. And you know where the annoucement is? On the City's website, not smack dab on the front page of his campaign website like Peter's is. Because this isn't and should never be a campaign issue. Something the McLaughlin camp doesn't seem to get. It's time to stop the foolishness. Foolishness like the repeated ploy from the McLaughlin camp that RT cut 150 officers, when each one of you who posts that knows that it was State and Federal funds that were cut. So I'll put it to you Barb and Wizard and every other McLaughlin supporter who keeps putting this out, why do you persist in putting this into each one of your posts when you know it's not true? I dare any of you to answer. Better yet, since this was such anapparent crisis, where has Peter been for the last four years on getting resources for law enforcement. All that time he was down in DC lobbying for Light Rail funds, it didn't occur to him to stop in and ask someone not to cut the Federal dollars that paid for the officers we lost? What about a few extra dollars for even the Sheriff's department? I mean, Pawlenty loaned out 12 State Troopers in 2003, couldn't Peter have gotten a few more dollars for a couple of Deputies that could have helped with the crime? I hate that this is what the election has come down to, it shouldn't be rhetoric, but just about the skills and resources each candidate brings to the table. I liked Peter when he was my County Commissioner, he was and still is good at it. And in my mind that's where he should stay, because neither he nor his supporters seem to be able to do much more than snipe and create mythical solutions of cops and other resources paid for with magic dollars while asking you not to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. This is a serious time with serious issues. Regardless of who you're supporting, this kind of exploitation of tragedy, should not be tolerated...by anyone. Talk about the good things Peter's done, let his record stand for itself instead of using these cheap tactics. The people of Minneapolis need and deserve no less. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Rybak retort to Minneapolis Police Federation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jonathan you obviously didn't read the press release very carefully. The federation DID NOT endorse Peter McLaughlin. If they had the press release would have most certainly read Minneapolis Police Federation endorses Peter McLaughlin. It said Anyone but Rybak. That is quite different than the angry picture you painted about Peter. It tells me the federation thinks Farheen Hakeem, perenniel candidate Dick Fransen, Marcus Harcus, the gunshop guy or any of the other candidates are more preferable to them than R.T. JP: Really Barb That's what it says to you? Honestly? So what you're saying is that in a race where the perceived leaders, expected to come out of the Primary, are RT and Peter, and where a vote for Peter ad would be out of place without the endorsement and a campaign contribution, that you REALLY believe that the purpose is ANYONE but RT. You, who have been promoting Peter hard all this time look at Delmonico, who's message is so similar to Peter's it's hard to tell who's talking, and really think he'd give someone as original and open-minded as Farheen or radical and energetic as Marcus his support??? As long as you've been involved in politics, you're really going to stand by that? Let's get real Barb, you know as well as I do that this is the same kind of swift boat tactic used during the 2004 election against Kerry. Support your candidate, tell everyone why you think he's the best, but let's be honest here. And I actually think it was you who didn't read because not only did I not say anything about endorsing Peter, you also didn't answer my question. So for your benefit and not to get lost in the back and forth, I'll post it again in here for you or any other McLaughlin supporter. Why do all of you keep accusing RT of cutting 150 cops when you know that it was the Federal and State cuts which caused the loss? I and a bunch of other people have asked it, so how about not avoiding the issue and responding? There are a lot of people who have had to work really hard to adapt to the cuts levied on us by the State and Federal government and not the least of which has been the Mayor and Council. They've worked hard to do more with less and while I believe strongly that we should all hold our public officials accountable, we must demand integrity in ourselves and not attack them for the things beyond their control. More importantly, we should be working together to solve the problems rather than trying to create fantasy causes that lead to wild goose chases. Let's focus on the real issues and hear from the serious candidates. Jonathan Palmer Victory P.S. I seem to remember a certain Chief of Police that Delmonico issued a vote of no confidence onperhaps this is an prediction of a second term. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] REGARDING MY EARLIER POST:COMMENTS
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At times it seems as though more police would be needed. However, more police would not be needed if the infrastructure of the area were more economically sound. Or if the city’s empowerment zone would allow dollars to those wishing to start their own businesses, other than nails; liquor; knock off clothing stores, and corner “hood” stores selling outdated WIC (Women Infant‘s and Children), in addition to selling cigarettes cheaper than any other place in the city. JP: I agree wholeheartedly with Vanessa. A clear connection can be seen between the economic investment in a community and the amount of crime and poverty that exists there. The higher the investment, the lower the other two become. Sound economic investment is key to diminishing and ultimately eradicating crime from areas. To that end, while the Empowerment Zone has put funding into a number of businesses and initiatives, it has never put money into nails; liquor; knock off clothing stores, and corner “hood” stores selling outdated WIC (Women Infant‘s and Children) to my knowledge. In my mind, that approach would be counterproductive to helping the community. What we have funded are places like Café Tata Bunna, El Amin's Fish House, Lucille's Kitchen, the Franklin Bakery, Siyeza and a host of others. We also provide funds through the West Broadway Area Coalition for West Broadway businesses to do façade improvements and we provide free technical assistance and small business loans to EZ business through four providers: NRRC, WomenVenture, MCCD and Whittier CDC. In fact in the course of our 5 1/2 years, $10.4 Million (of our $25.8 Million) has been committed to 34 economic development projects and initiatives, which have served 1,174 persons, trained 170 residents and created or retained 485 resident jobs. 65 EZ business loans have been processed and 441 EZ businesses have received technical assistance. Many people are not fully aware of what we do and don't do, I encourage people to check out our website (www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/ez) or email me directly at work at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with any questions. On our end, we're trying to get the word out more of the resources we have to offer. In addition, the City has a great Business Finance division which works with businesses to find resources and funding, they even put out a free guide on how to start a business. Bob Lind heads that up, and is another great person to talk with. Bottom line is that both the EZ and the Business Finance division are here to help and have been assisting people as they start up or expand their business, primarily small businesses. Many people are not aware of the resources available to them, and I would encourage anyone to contact my office or other divisions for assistance. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Response to socialiost2001
Michelle, It is an interesting tactic for someone who claims not to intend to start a debate to pull in extraneous information (actually misinformation) in an attempt to counter a point you disagree with. If your whole intent was negating outside influence, encouraging healing and avoiding debate you could restricted your comments to the situation, said you disagreed, and addressed ways of encouraging respectful dialogue from a neutral point of view for the purpose of resolution. Instead you choose to launch more criticism at Don utilizing misinformation. Since you may not be aware of how much of this is information, allow me to clarify a few points. Let me be clear though, that I am not speaking for Don or anyone else. I'm not on his campaign and don't work for him, I am not speaking for my office or any affiliation, I am speaking as little ol' me, Jonathan Palmer who just happens to know a lot of information. In regard to the $300K, I didn't list it as an accomplishment, but rather pointed out the attack on Don by Booker and his colleagues to illustrate that this latest incidents was just one in a series of unprovoked, unprofessional assaults that does not become anyone, much less a Black leader or activist. But more to the point Don didn't negotiate the $300K, it was a group effort, Natalie's name was right next to Don's on the proposal and she along with others like Clarence Hightower and Ezell Jones were part of the effort. The group that was convened prior to this proposal and still meets includes Natalie, and Sherrie Pugh from NRRC, Tene Wells from Women Venture and a whole host of others that represent and work on behalf of the little people. Organizations like the Urban League, NRRC and the African American Chamber of Commerce exist for the benefit of the community that the little people work and reside in and do their best to bring resources and change for the purpose of empowerment. This was a group effort, but Booker and his colleagues have been among the leading people framing this as if it was Don alone and for Don's benefit. It's wrong and no one's been held accountable for this. Now on the matter of the Empowerment Zone, again there has been much misinformation presented and perhaps I can clear some of that up. The Empowerment Zone is a federal designation of geographic areas based on census tracts with federal funds for improvement (originally detailed as economic opportunity) for area residents and businesses. The guidelines and eligibility requirements for designation do not mention race or racial disparity. They did mention the requirement of poverty, unemployment and general distress. General distress being defined as those adverse conditions within the area, beyond pervasive poverty and unemployment, and include such factors as teen pregnancy rate, abandoned housing, high incidence of AIDs, even per capita property tax base, but not race or racial disparity. In fact the policies and procedures governing the selection and evaluation of applications for designation do not mention racial disparity, African American poverty or even race in general as criteria at all. But don't take my word for it, check out the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 24, Chapter V, Part 598 which governs Round II Empowerment Zones. Further, while the a section of the narrative of application for the designation does mention racial disparity (arising from racial discrimination) in conjunction with isolated areas of poverty in MINNEAPOLIS as being the greatest threats to the REGION as a whole, only poverty is part of the application in the Census Tract information of the Population Data Form (i.e. census tracts (areas to be designated) were evaluated based on percent below poverty not race). Other negative descriptors presented in the narrative to encourage the designation besides concentration of poverty and economic disparity by race were: children in poverty, challenges to welfare reform, lack of affordable housing, and transportation. Racial disparity (and specifically African American disparity), despite what you may have been told, was not the major or main factor for the EZ designation. Further, the Strategic Plan, the means by which the City would address all of the social and economic problems, does not mention any strategy for addressing racial disparity specifically, but rather addressing the root causes that lead to racial disparity, poverty and impacted communities in general such as unemployment, crime reduction, and housing options. Were racial disparity or African American disparity to be the deciding factor for the designation, there would have needed to have been a goal, strategy, or even a section on addressing it. Despite what was said at the meeting (which I also attended), the designation was not based on race or the African
Re: [Mpls] Response to socialiost2001
In a message dated 5/20/2005 8:51:34 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A young man apologizes for his comments and your response is to try to add fuel to the fire. What does the NAACP have to do with whether what Mr. Hodges or Mr. Samuels said was wrong? I applaud that young man for having the courage to admit his mistake. I only hope that Mr. Samuels has the same courage. It's time for healing. JP: You know Michelle, I have to disagree with you on several regards. Not about your comments to Doug, but about a young man admitting his mistake, apologizing and having courage. It does take courage to apologize. An apology is an admission of error followed by an expression of regret. That's all. The moment you add a qualification for your actions, it ceases to be an apology, and it becomes an explanation to justify behavior. Booker didn't apologized for his actions, he apologized for any undue stress it caused and any problems his comments caused, while qualifying that he thought Don had taken them out of context. He never admitted any error, merely lamented over the impact. This was not an apology, it was a justification for his actions and and opportunity to defend himself as he did in the second paragraph. I didn't agree or find Don's big house comments appropriate because I knew how they translated. I believe he meant them with the best of intentions, but it was the wrong approachand I told him so. But what I did was pull him to the side, sit down with him and tell him why I thought it was wrong and that I thought he shouldn't make the speech again. I didn't go on a TV show and make overt or veiled threats, I didn't assault him at a convention or community meeting, I didn't go on a radio show or write articles. I simply talked to him. And in a civil society among rational people, that's how we settle differencesif settling differences is your intent. Further you lose all credibilty to criticize people for talking about the big house when in the same breath you call anyone niggas, niggers or any variation thereof. You cannot cast that first stone while sinning at the same time. I too am willing to believe that both were taken out of context, however, the difference is that Don was attempting to utilize a poor choice of words and example to illustrate his and his wife's commitment to the community as well as what he felt the youth needed. Booker's comments had the sole intent of attacking Donas he and other's have done consistently since he took office. Time after time, I have watched he and his colleagues assault Don for differences of opinion or lack of information, such as when Target gave a group of African American leaders focused on community development $300K for business development in the African American business community. Because Don had convened the group, they accused him of getting the money to line his own pockets and feed his war chest, even naming him poverty pimp of the month. To date, that money still sits at the Minneapolis Foundation, where it always has, while the group deliberates over the use. There is a difference between intellectual discourse/criticism of public officials and slander/defamation of character/harassment. While you may consider both Booker and Don's comments wrong, Don did not have the intent nor the focus on an individual that Booker had, and that makes a huge difference. There has to be a level of accountability within our community such that when one does wrong, we let them know and address it appropriately, but the first step has to be in a civil manner, else we lose the ability to relate to one another, interact, and engage polite and respectful dialogue. It's okay to disagree vehemently, it's okay to criticize and critique, but if you cannot do it civilly, if you cannot first discuss and engage in respectful dialogue, then you lose the moral highground you believe yourself to be on. I've watched Don try and sit down with Booker and work out there differences and discuss appropriate behavior. Perhaps if Booker is really sincere in his regret, he will initiate the same thing and then the real healing can begin. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Were the delegates actually committed to endorsement?
In a message dated 5/16/2005 2:05:24 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have stated where I stand politically on previous posts. If the party chooses to endorse a candidate I personally do not believe upholds my personal values, I will not vote for them, in the primary or otherwise. I do the same on the convention floor as I do in the voting booth. Vote my conscience. JP: I have to disagree with Pamela (whom I normally agree with though) on a few things in regards to this and other points she's raised. I'm having a hard time reconciling the thought that delegates must endorse a candidate, and the position that those RT supporters that left disrespected the process with the fact that you wouldn't vote for a candidate that you felt didn't uphold your values even if he got the endorsement but rather that you vote your conscience. It seems to me that those who left were voting their conscience, they didn't want to endorse Peter and RT wasn't going to get support from Peter's folks and so they voted with their feet. If you believe the idea people should vote their conscience and you're in a convention that's deadlocked, then realistically you have to either allow for no endorsement or for people to agree to go home or whatever. Otherwise you're forcing people not to vote their conscience, but rather to but persuaded in order to go home Ultimately, though, I think our endorsing process is flawed in a few regards. I don't think we've done enough to include underrepresented groups, what should be people voting their conscience is actually family, friends and supporters of a particular candidate trying to ensure his/her success, and in a primarily one-party town (no disrespect intended to Greens, Repulicans and Independents) the endorsement is not only the litmus test but clearing the field of candidates that might reach or resonate with voters. We have a primary, and therefore don't need the endorsement to eliminate candidates in Minneapolis. In my opinion, the endorsement should be about nominating who is best for the party, but if you're going to do that, 60% is way to low. It should be 90% so that you can say that a candidate truly represents the will of the delegates. And while people may snap at RT and make comments about being imaginary, how many delegates went out and polled their neighbors so they could best represent them? How many came to the convention undecided prepared to give any candidate fair consideration, certainly not anyone volunteering for or wearing a campaign's t-shirt, myself included. The majority of people had a candidate in mind walking in. I'm not downing that, it's just the nature of the beast. But because the percentage is so low (60%), you can't really call the endorsement a mandate. There is a wide difference between the way things are supposed to be or ideally are and they way they actually are. Our country is founded on the principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and that all men are created equal...by a group of slaveowners who treated women like cattle and the inheritors or which can't support two people who love each other being married because they're the same gender. Our party and processes are not always what they claim to or should be. It's part of being human and we do the best we can. Ultimately, what I would do is change it to be similar to what some of the caucases do, endorse who you like and put your resources behind that/those candidate(s), rate acceptable or unacceptable the rest, and let voter's decide in the Primary. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] The convention was fun
An element of conflict in any discussion is a very good thing, it shows that everybody's taking part and nobody's being left out. I like that. -Jimmy Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd in Harvey This has been one of the most interesting discussions on this list in awhile. And while I don't agree with everyone, most of the discussion is civil and honest, and that's a good thing in my opinion. The most entertaining of which have been Jim Graham's campaigning for Peter disguised as anecdotal parables and Charlie Murphy True Hollywood Stories type yarns. I especially like the tales of a foolish Somali Leader. Me, I was surrounded mostly by Europe descended White folks so I don't think my stories are as entertaining. But the real point, (and ribbing of Jim aside), I think we have a tendency to get lost in partisanship, candidate bias and campaign rhetoric rather than viewing this as an opportunity for democracry to be in action. Here we have two qualified candidates with great support and rather than spending countless hours making unsubstantiated claims of how bad one or another candidate is, it would be refreshing to have all of the campaigns talk about why they're person is the best one for the job rather than why they think they're just better than one of the others. If you're candidate is really just over the top, incredible whip cream with a cherry on top, you should not even need to mention the other candidate to talk about how good yours is. There is, however, a dark underside, and that's opinion presented as fact. To be clear, I think Peter's folks deserve a lot of credit and respect for the organization and support they brought to the convention on Saturday. It definitely dealt a blow, and they should take pride in that. But at the same time you can't call it victory if your goal was endorsement, and you didn't get it. You can't call it winning by being ahead on every ballot, because you weren't able to close the loop and reach your goal of endorsement. And you can't call RT's supporters disrespectful for leaving (especially considering Dyna's points that Peter's people would not let those getting refreshment back in; and I've heard this from more than one person), they did what they had to to support their candidate, just as I'm sure Peter's would have done what they had to. And were the positions reversed, I'd be saying the same thing about Peter's campaign. With apologies to Public Enemy, don't believe the hype! RT hasn't lost neighborhood leaders, there are many across the city that not only support, but worked the convention floor for him on Saturday. RT hasn't tried to crush the neighborhoods and dismantle NRP, he doesn't hate Police and Fire Departments, and look for every chance to cut their funding, and he definitely hasn't squandered the City's funding. Truth be told, he's done an incredible job with a horrible budget and drastic cuts and it's very easy to take potshots when you're outside the job, not easy to be sitting in the chair and have to decide between essential services which one you're going to have to cut because of low funding resources. Bottom line, if you support Peter, good for you, go with the person you believe in, but support him because you think he's the best person for the job, not because you're mad at or dislike RT. Me, I like RT, I think he's done a good job. No public official is perfect, but I also haven't seen one try as hard as him. I believe in him and what he does and will support him all the way through November. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Suburban drug buyers
Mark, This is not a myth. Last year when I was working in Jordan, WCCO came out and did an interview with one of our residents who had been collecting license plates numbers for several months. They then ran those plate numbers through the Dept of Public Safety, 70% came up with addresses outside of Minneapolis. WCCO then video taped 10 drug buys happening that day and ran the plates. Ironically 7 of the 10 were also from outside Minneapolis. This is not a myth. It is very real. No one is saying that no drug dealers or buyers live in the City or even in the neighborhoods, but the primary demand for drugs in impacted neighborhoods comes from suburban buyers who are purchasing their products in open air drug markets. Jordan, Phillips, Whittier, McKinley, Hawthorne, all of these neighborhoods and others have to contend with this and many have lists of license plates that concerned neighbors are tracking. I'm not certain what article you're referencing, but the recent drug sweep was primarily for dealers and they were targeting specific individuals with warrants. In addition, many of the dealers who live in North Minneapolis or other parts of the city, actually live in suburbs like Brooklyn Park or Center, but have a friend or relative that they flop with and then will list as their address. If you have some information to the contrary, please share it, however, in at least Jordan we have seen it first hand, have the license plate numbers to back it up and you can find the report if you search WCCO. Jonathan Palmer Victory -Original Message- From: Mark Wilde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mpls@mnforum.org Sent: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mpls] Suburban drug buyers Are the drug buyers neighborhood folks or as the case with many in North Minneapolis surburbanites? Bill Dooley Kenny This is a myth that keeps getting stated as a fact. A recent Star Tribune article about a drug sweep over north said most of the people detained in the sweep (both buyers and sellers) lived in North Minneapolis. Do people honestly think that there is no one in the suburbs selling drugs? Most people in the suburbs just don't buy their drugs on the street corner. And most of the drug users who live over North don't need to drive to get them. Sure the percentage of cars that get pulled over are from out of the city, that is because the city buyers are on foot. Mark Wilde Windom Park __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] CPED Staffers to get $30,000 pay raises~Not Quite
I think in order to be fair, it should be pointed out that it is not accurate to say that anyone is getting a $30K raise based on the information given. The information presented is not a raise, but rather appears to be a change in Grade which gives a change in salary range. Government employees are given Grade levels (e.g. Grade 10) which indicates their level of authority and responsibility, salary range, FLSA/exempt status, etc. Grade X would have a salary range from $65-85K, while Grade Y would have a salary range from $100K-109K. Where you start in that range is dependent upon your experience, job responsibilities, etc. There are established Steps within that range, such that once you have a starting point, you go to the next Step and so on until you exhaust the Steps in that Grade. You either remain at that salary level for the remainder of your service or the Grade level is changed. It would therefore only be a $30K+ raise if the person were at the bottom of the Grade and the position was upgraded. However, given that these are Director level positions, they are not at the bottom rung of the Grade. Further, as positions get higher in salary, the Step increase percentage gets lower. For the proposed new range, depending on the number of steps, you're looking at a 2-4% raise at each step, which is consistent with standard cost-of-living increases. Without knowing the exact salary and/or the content of the letter Booker has referenced, it cannot be determined what the actual raise is, or even if it's a raise. However, the Ways and Means Agenda next week will have a staff report which explains the rationale for the Grade change or whatever the new pay rate coincides with. I'd suggest looking at that before determining what the salary increase is, but it's not accurate to call it a $30K+ raise for anyone. Jonathan Palmer Victory In a message dated 3/23/2005 8:46:48 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For once I am going to leave my opinion out of a post and just present the facts and ask some questions. I have obtained copies of letters sent by Pam French Director of Human Resources for our lovely city to Mayor Rybak dated March 3, 2005. In these letters Mrs. French under the direction of Lee Sheehy Director of CPED indicated that several appointed positions within CPED should receive significant pay raises. I have listed the positions below with the proposed raises. I would ask you to keep in mind that the government cap is currently $114,288. The city is still under a hiring freeze so why are these people getting $30,000+ pay raises in some cases? Position: Director Economic Policy Development (CPED) Position held by: Michael Christenson Current pay rate: $65,066- $96,141 Proposed new pay rate: $103,500-$114,395 Rate Increase: $38,434-$18,254 Position: Deputy Director (CPED) Position held by: Charles Lutz Current pay rate: $98,857- $100,296 Proposed new pay rate: $109,094-$120,577 Rate increase: $10,237-$20,281 Position: Director Housing Policy Development (CPED) Position held by: Elizabeth Ryan Current pay rate: $65,066- $96,141 Proposed new pay rate: $98,885-$109,294 Rate increase: $33,819-$13,153 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Unsung Heroes - MPLS Year In Review
Okay, waitaminute, first the Smoking Ban is tantamount to Slavery and ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, and now Peter McLaughlin is an unsung hero? C'mon Jim, let's be real here. Heck, if that's the case, the Empowerment Zone also put significant funding into Many Rivers (both phases) and other projects down in the Phillips Community, does that make every Boardmember an unsung hero or just RT Rybak because he's co-chair and running for Mayor like Peter. I like Peter, when I lived in Stevens Square he was my commissioner, and he was always a great commissioner and came to our events, but he's hardly unsung. If he is, then I guess RT is unsung for picking and garnering the support for confirmation of probably the greatest Police Chief this City has ever seen, Bill McManus, and for such other greats leaders in the city as Jayne Khalifa, head of the Civil Rights Department and Bonnie Bleskachek, the new Fire Chief. If he's unsung then I guess RT and our Northside Council Members (Barb Johnson, Natalie Johnson-Lee and Don Samuels) are unsung for the resources and development they're bringing to North Minneapolis through the Northside Partnership like the $40M Northside Home Fund and the Probation House in Jordan. These people aren't unsung, they're doing their job. And when they go over and above the call of duty, then they're doing their job exceptionally well, but it's their job to find resources, build partnerships, to change the course of mighty rivers. How well they do their job should be the deciding factor for whether they keep their job or get promoted, but pushing hard for projects and finding resources is what they're supposed to do. The question is how well they do it. If you want to put a plug in for your candidate, then do that, but don't couch it in this unsung hero category when it's their job. You want to know who's unsung Jim? It's people like you, whom a lot of people don't know how much you did to get Ventura Village to come to fruition. It's people like Booker Hodges, whom I often don't agree with, but who has the courage to speak his mind and bring awareness to issues. It's the staff of the neighborhood organizations like Julie Filapek, Suzi Kim Scott and Roberta Englund who put in countless hours for the needs of the neighborhoods. Did you know that Roberta, with a little help from Jordan, got a congressional appropriation, thanks to Martin Sabo, in the amount of $975K which is being leveraged to greater amounts and will do programming for youth across the Northside next year? That's unsung. All the people who do incredible work and never get any real thanks or acknowledgement for it, that's unsung. Let's honor that and give them the much needed credit, we can leave the campaigning for the Who's the best candidate posts. Let's talk about the often unnoticed people who make sure that our neighborhoods work, that the City works, and help their community but don't get the praise for it. Jonathan Palmer Victory In a message dated 12/31/2004 9:07:57 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Let us get off tobacco and get back to the unsung heroes for the MPLS year. A year ago American Indian Community Development Corporation (AICDC) received exclusive development rights to several lots in the Ventura Village Neighborhood of Minneapolis. The purpose of this assignment of rights was to develop affordable homeownership opportunities for poor American Indian families. Unfortunately, one area that AICDC thought it had rights to did not belong to Minneapolis, but had been tax forfeited to Hennepin County and never transferred to Minneapolis. This property was to be auctioned unbeknown to either AICDC or apparently Minneapolis CPED. With only two days notice Peter McLaughlin was able to get the support of Commissioners Gail Dorfman and others to pull the land from the auction and transfer the property (at auction price) through Minneapolis to AICDC for construction of those affordable homes. That project is part of bringing approximately 3 million dollars of funding from the Mille Lacs Band to create affordable home ownership in Minneapolis and the Ventura Village Neighborhood. The homeownership project also led to Mille Lacs bringing several additional millions of dollars of investment for Franklin Avenue. It is amazing the media coverage and singing that takes place around much smaller efforts of non-private dollars, isn't it? But Peter McLaughlin deserves to be a little less unsung about his efforts on behalf of Minneapolis, so here is little singing of his praise. This is not too different from the unsung part that Peter McLaughlin played in the first major development built as part of the Franklin Avenue resurrection. Peter coaxed MCDA to give the bonding that allowed Many Rivers East to be built, and to stop
[Mpls] Jordan Area Community Council Seeks Executive Director
The Jordan Area Community Council is seeking a dynamic individual to lead the organization as its Executive Director. POSITION CLOSES: December 17, 2004 POSITION:Executive Director STARTING SALARY RANGE:$35,000-$40,000 TYPE OF POSITION: Fulltime ORGANIZATION: Jordan Area Community Council (JACC) JOB DESCRIPTION/RESPONSIBILITIES: The Executive Director reports directly to the board of directors and serves as the chief executive of the organization. S/He is responsible for managing the day-to-day operations of the Jordan Area Community Council and implementing the policy decisions of the board of directors. Including but not limited to: -Researching and submitting grant proposals. -Overseeing the management and review of Jordans NRP plan and programs. -Working with treasurer and executive committee to manage the financial records of the organization, including monthly financial reports. -Developing and maintaining a timely and effective communication system to board members, committees, staff, volunteers and the community. -Overseeing the production and maintenance of a website for JACC. -Managing the recruitment, supervision, evaluation and termination of employees and volunteers. -Maintaining the filing requirements of 501c3, I-9 file and the State of Minnesotas non-profit registration. -Helping committees set goals, do research, carry out tasks and evaluate progress. -Monitoring use of NRP funds and housing contracts; prepare correspondence and other materials as required -Working with other neighborhood and community agencies for strategic partnership development. Other duties as required. QUALIFICATIONS: -Masters Degree or equivalent experience in non-profit community organizing and management. (3-5 years preferred) -Good interpersonal and speaking skills. -Knowledge of key Minneapolis City issues. -Knowledge of key Jordan neighborhood issues. -Able to navigate the Internet and use e-mail. -Familiarity with issues facing impacted neighborhoods especially those in North Minneapolis. -Strong leadership and communication skills -Two to five years of previous experience in a supervisory position. If interested send resume, cover letter, and references by December 17, 2004 to: Jonathan Palmer, Executive Director Search Committee, Jordan Area Community Council, 2507 Fremont Avenue N. Minneapolis, MN 55412. Email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) . Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] JACC FORUM Tonight-Having a Healthy Home-Environmental Issues
HAVING A HEALTHY HOME Come learn about the things to be aware of and what you can do to ensure your home is as healthy as possible. Topics include: -Indoor Air (Tobacco, radon, carbon monoxide, mold) -Asbestos and Lead -Building materials/techniques Childcare and a light supper provided by General Mills Community Action JACC Forum 2507 Fremont Avenue N 6:30pm-8:30pm 612-529-9267 Jonathan Palmer Working in Jordan REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] PPL Hosts Jordan Neighborhood Open House
Jordan Neighborhood Open House and Community BBQ Hosted by PPL Sunday, November 7th @ 1:00 pm! What: A chance to tour newly built homes that are for sale in Jordan and a community BBQ open to all! When: November 7th, 1:00 pm-4:00pm, rain or shine! Where: 2305 James Avenue North kick off point Featuring: -Self guided tour of the newly built homes with raffle -A free lunch provided by The Bean Scene -US Bank and Wells Fargo will be on hand to provide mortgage services and information -Marketing Information from Sandy Green Realty -A chance to meet and talk to Council Member Don Samuels -Representatives from Jordan Area Community Council (JACC) Description: Phase I of the Lowell School Project, the new construction of ten houses, is nearly completed. Phase II, the development of the old Lowell School site, is starting soon! Residents and friends can get together and celebrate the positive and exciting changes happening in Jordan and enjoy some great food. Jonathan Palmer working in Jordan REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Turnout 4-4
At 10:15, I was the 607th voter in 4-4, and there were still people coming in. 110 people in 45 minutes, not bad. Jonathan Palmer Victory In a message dated 11/2/2004 10:22:59 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Total vote for the 2002 general election in 4-4 was 1431, as of 9:30 am today, 497, with a steady stream of voters coming. The trend, at least in 4-4 should be a record turnout REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Huge Supplier Bust in North Minneapolis
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5033699.html First off, let me say, Way to go MPD and any other agencies involved! A couple of thoughts on this: -I'd be surprised with the proximity if this wasn't connected to the traffic in the neighborhoods bordering Lowry. -It is interesting to note the demographic of the subject of this. Business owner, well off, not a friendly relation of the average street corner dealer. It will be real interesting to see how far in both directions this track leads. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Jesse Jackson coming to North Minneapolis
Reverend Jesse Jackson Appearing on behalf of the Kerry~Edwards Presidential Campaign North Community High School 1500 James Avenue North, Minneapolis Saturday, October 16, 2004 6:00 PM Please RSVP to 651-204-0430. Sponsored by the MN Victory 2004 Coordinated Campaign Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] RE: Rep. Kahn Obstructing Democracy???
Just as a point of clarification, CM Samuels is a DFLer. I believe his wife is even a precinct chair. Jonathan Palmer Victory In a message dated 10/4/2004 12:03:11 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The push for a new election by Rep. Kahn's bill in the State Legislature that redirects the timing of our city's election IS an assault on the Green Party or non-DFLers (eg. CM Samuels), albeit debatable whether or not it is a direct or indirect assault. You don't have to go to Yale or Harvard to see that clearly. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Sex Offenders
Well, actually no Robert it's not about a choice between drug offenders (which incidentally is not exclusively the same as drug users but rather includes drug dealers as well) and Level III sex offenders. Level IIIs are not being release or compressed into impacted neighborhoods because of the number of drug offenders in prison, they are released because they've done their time. Lighter penalties for drug offenders is a separate issue and trying to hinge one on the other, in my mind, dilutes and draws attention away from the real issue: compacting problems into impacted communities. And while I agree with the sentiments of Booker's proposed ordinance, it is not feasible. (incidentally, the people who check up on and track Level IIIs and other offenders here in the City are Hennepin County Probations Officers, and while I speak to how well they do in other communities, the ones we have in Jordan and Folwell are top notch). The reasons why the ordinance is not feasible are: 1.The City doesn't have jurisdiction, and 2. even if it did no one is going to support an ordinance to get more Level IIIs in their area. Joe Mullery and Linda Hiiggins have tried this several times at the Legislature and it has never passed. However, the question of jurisdiction has led to a possible means of dealing with this problem through a thought Keith Ellison had and that we've discussed at a couple of meetings on the Northside (in addition to discussions I've had with some southside people like Barb and Jim). While the City doesn't have jursidiction, the Department of Correction does and we've been working on getting a policy that would effect the same thing. Those that are on supervision, the Department should be able to tell where to go and where not to. Therefore, the way to accomplish this is to get the Department to agree to a policy of non-concentration in impacted neighborhoods. Part of the problem is awareness. While it doesn't mean that they would care, many people are not aware of the concentration and the reasons for it. Don Samuels, Dennis Wagner and I met with Steve Sviggum earlier in the year about this issue and he was shocked to learned of the concentration (Jordan has the highest concentration in North Minneapolis, combined with Phillips, the two communities have 50% of the Level IIIs in the city) and the reason (the two from his hometown were there because of relatives). 1 in 9 people in Jordan is on some form of supervision. There are only two halfway houses in Minneapolis, one on the Northside and one on the Southside, and I don't believe that probation or parole officers are directing people to these neighborhoods, a number of them are not stopping them. But the largest problem is the group of landlords who will recruit them under the auspices of doing God's work which is strange because I didn't know God liked you to concentrate large numbers offenders in a small house and charge them huge rates. There are a number of other ways of dealing with this too. Dorie's idea is not bad, and we looked into it (but something else is happening with Fort Snelling) as well as an idea of having a certification process similar to what is done for Section 8 acceptable domiciles for those housing Level IIIs. If you were to do this, you could incorporate regulations such as the provisions mentioned in the ordinance and cap the rental amount. I believe once the amount of money is capped or reduced, you'd see a lot less eager landlords regarding this issue. The bottom line is that impacted communities should not be subjected to carrying the weight of the City regarding problems. Out of 81 neighborhoods in Minneapolis, only 1/4 have Level IIIs. Something to think about. Jonathan Palmer Victory In a message dated 10/2/2004 12:43:26 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Proposals to make all released sex offenders live at Fort Snelling or some other similar place is just another proposal to build another prison. If you put the released sex offenders at Fort Snelling, you would need to hire gua rds to ensure that the released offenders stay there, money to build a wall around the facility, and money to pay for their food, clothing, medical care, etc since you don't want them leaving to work at jobs where they would be going into neighborhoods where they would have the opportunity to reoffend. We could avoid the problem of sex offenders and other criminals being released to prey on new victims if we habe a three strikes and you're out law for FELONIES. I limit three strikes to felonies because reasonable people would not want the absurdity of someone being sentenced to life in prison for shop lifting or cruising to pick up a prositute when these offenses are their third strike. But when someone has committed three successive felonies such as armed robbery or rape,
[Mpls] Jordan Area Community Council (JACC) 40th Anniversary Celebration This Saturday
The Jordan Area Community Council (JACC) will host its 40th Anniversary Celebration on Saturday, September 18th in Jordan Park from 12pm-5pm. Formed 40 years ago, JACC is the nonprofit, citizen participation organization for North Minneapolis Jordan neighborhood. Its mission is to organize people, knowledge and capital for the collective empowerment of Jordan residents. One of the citys first community organizations, JACC began in 1964, as local PTA members joined to prevent closure of the public librarys North Branch. That struggle which resulted in a new North Library opening in 1970 -- established JACC firmly as a grassroots effort, based on the belief that residents could solve problems through collective action, thereby empowering themselves. The event will celebrate 40 years of community service to the Jordan Neighborhood, and will feature kids activities, the Minneapolis Public Librarys bookmobile, live music, food, games, clowns, McGruff, face painting, and a host of community businesses and organizations. The event promises to be one to remember. The celebration will go from 12-5pm. Jordan Park is located between 29th and 30th Avenues N From James to Irving Avenues N. For more information contact Jennifer Anderson at 612-529-9267 Jonathan Palmer working in Jordan REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Night life ideas
Well RT, might I suggest capping the night off with a late night/early morning snack at Pizza Luce which with a 3:30am close is the latest restaurant open. Voted Best Pizza and Best Late Night Dining (among other awards which can be found at www.pizzaluce.com) the last four years in a row in the City Pages Reader's Choice Awards. An eclectic atmosphere and incredible food are a great way to put the coup de grace on Mr. Barkley's eveningif he can hang. Jonathan Palmer Victory In a message dated 5/24/2004 5:52:19 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In case Charles Barkely takes me up on my challenge (see press release below), I could use some help on other places I should be taking him late at night: Press release: Barkley Wimps Out, Skips Town Rybak issues new challenge REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Citizen's League Race and Public Policy Mind-Blower with Don Samuels
Another Mind-Blower! Race and Public Policy: Finding Common Ground in an Uncommon Conversation with Don Samuels Minneapolis City Councilmember, Ward 3 The inability to have honest public conversations about race and public policy priorities means that we often can't impact these very priorities. We avoid the issue of race, and then inadvertently avoid the issues impacted by race. This conversation will be an opportunity to talk about race in such a way that citizens become the solution-makers and beneficiaries as race intersects with public policy. The conversation will mix presentation from Councilmember Samuels, with audience interaction and discussion. Wednesday, May 26 at 5:30 p.m. Phyllis Wheatley Community Center 915 Emerson Avenue North Minneapolis (just north of Olson Memorial Highway ) Cost per meeting (including appetizers) League members -- $10 Non-members -- $15 Students -- free Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] A Black Minister takes the money/ Black Bourgeoisie
You know Zack, for someone who says that there are clearly a number of different ways that persons may serve their community, you spend a lot of time attacking anyone who doesn't follow your path or do what you want them to. And since you believe in the exposure of activities that are detrimental to our community then you'll appreciate the fact that I demand that you back up the statements that you make with evidence and support. Since you believe in exposing this detriment, I'm sure you'll hold yourself to the same standard that you expect other to be held to and won't mind backing up what you say or being questioned, because if what you say his merit it'll be able to withstand those questions. But while I support your right to free speech, I also support a community's right to hold people in positions of power and influence accountable for their actions and deeds. For that reason, I don't change the channel, because our community needs to be given more than just a perspective, it needs to be given truth and honesty, not vague alliterations and misinterpreted accusations. On that note, let me show you why this is important. If you go back and actually read the email I sent to Booker you will find that I never threatened to take him out back but rather asked if he had said that about me. I heard from several sources that he said that on your show and unlike your method of insinuations and making accusations via airwaves, I go straight to the source. The exact quote from that email I sent to Booker was: Okay, so does that mean it wasn't you saying that I needed to be taken out back and whipped and you would do it.. Booker said he never said it, and I said I'd take him at his word, and the matter dropped for me. But not for you and your friends who misread the email and then lied. This is why reading is fundamental Zack, and this is why you, Booker, me, RT, Ron, Al, Don, and anyone else must be held accountable for their actions. You were wrong for this not just on a personal level, but on professional level it is irresponsible and lacks integrity. As for your video tapes, I've seen them on your show, and if I can suggest if you're going to continue to try and do doctoring and cut out parts you find someone who's a professional so that it isn't as obvious. I find your stories incredulous but I'll be looking forward to watching the jumble clip on your show to see how much merit there is in your words. By the way, I'm not a preacher, so it wouldn't be a concern of mine of who Booker's alluding to, except for the fact that I don't know how you would expect the community to clear things up if they don't have all of the information. You're not exposing the situation if you're not exposing the facts, that's journalism 101. And I'm not sure which event this was I attended, unless it was the peace vigil at Rev. Bethel's church a while backwhich you saw me at and directly contradicts your statement of never having seen me at any event. More to the point, when the young child was shot a year ago in Jordan, I don't recall seeing you or any of your colleagues out with Don Samuels and I as we talked to the family, neighbors and the community. Anytime there's a shooting in Jordan, I doorknock the block. I meet weekly with the 4th Precinct leadership, Hennepin Cty Probations, City Attorney's office and others through the 4th Ward CARE task force to deal with hot spots and develop strategy to addressing the issues. Every week I patrol Jordan with these same groups of people along with community members from Jordan and other neighborhoods to take a stand against the dealers. I've testified at the legislature and worked with elected officials on sustainable solutions. I've yet to see you, Booker or any of your colleagues show up and help with any of these issues. In fact the only time I've seen you show up is when there's a TV camera around, to, as Al put it, make certain people know that Jonathan's not the leader of the Black community. What's said about that is that I never claimed to be, nor are we homogenous enough to have only one leader. What's more sad is that if you're doing what your supposed to you don't need to show up for that reason. Your actions will speak for themselves, and people will seek you out for leadership. Think about that. And if you're truly interested in being respectful of everyone's attempts then stop attacking people before you even talk to them. Week after week Black Economics lobs accusation after accusation about things that you have half the story on and have never approached people to even ask a question. How hypocritical is it to praise Booker for not revealing the name of the preacher who stole money in an effort to let the community deal with it, yet to accuse (wrongly I might add) me of picking a fight or having ethical violations because I work for a neighborhood organzation and sit on the
Re: [Mpls] smoke 'em if ya got 'em
In a message dated 5/11/2004 6:51:25 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. Your place is a public accommodation, and as such, has an obligation not to disciminate - against nonsmokers as much as a person of color, which I'm sure you do not. I've been staying on the sidelines with this because many capable people are writing in, but when people start comparing smoking as a form of discrimination against nonsmokers comparable to that of discrimination experienced by people of color, I know it's time wedge in a bit, because that's like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing it. On to the main issue of who has a right to be where, and I've got to agree with Mike Hohman on this in that it's about choice. When the argument rises up there will be no affect on business and yet no one offers any form of proof, I'm a little confused, however, my wife's restaurant in Duluth did lose business when they enacted their smoking ban to Wisconsin (as has already been stated earlier). In addition, according to the President of Californians for Smokers Rights (I think it's pretty obvious where they come down on this argument), there was an increase in sales which is where many people get the idea that it doesn't affect businesses, but when you look a little closer, you find that the increase in business is largely the fast food industry. Fast food outdistanced the overall economy increase, but restaurants and bars lagged behind, and even decreased in licensing, meaning that businesses closed during this overall economic increase. When the argument arises about the health of non-smokers, I noticed no one seems to be talking about the health of smokers as far as addiction. I'm a non-smoker and I think it's sad (sad-funny that is) watching my smoking friends huddle in the entranceway dealing with the addiction. I support non-smoking offices and public venues like libraries and courthouses, but there's a difference between being open to the public and being a public venue. And no one seems to be that concerned about the compounded effect of smoking rooms, outdoor designated areas and addiction. We're not doing anything to help them kick the habit, but we will compact them into areas or force them out of venues for non-smoker's rights. More importantly as this is an addiction, no one seems to be talking about the additional impact of when we shove them outside in the snow, rain or other inclement weather and the effect that will have on their health. And before you start talking about everyone's right to breathe, read Doug Grow's article. How do you ethically push for a restaurant and bar ban, but allow industry and vehicles to keep pumping their toxins into the air. I'm not a Libertarian, I just believe in having a consistent ethic and not half-steppin'. And finally, when we get down to freedom to go everywhere, how many people were really holding off on going to the Hard Times or other restaurants because of the smoking? Not you would visit downtown more, but who really has a restaurant they've been dying to go to, but are boycotting because of smoking? As we start talking about the effects that places have, or we going to start banning anything that has a negative effect? Will the Saloon and the 90s now have to ban interaction between GLBT couples because diehard religious nuts say that it is morally wrong and they can't be around it, and therefore can't go? Are we going to tell the Christian nightclubs that they must now be secular because Muslims and Buddhist are prevented from entering because of their doctrine? Do we have restaurants stop serving alcohol because alcoholics cannot patronize them because of the danger? Or do Thai restaurants have to stop cooking their dishes because a person is allergic to curry and therefore can't be in the restaurant? Where does it end? To be clear and fair, none of those things has the same identifiable impact as second-hand smoke, but it's not a valid argument to say that non-smokers are being discriminated against because they don't choose to patronize places with smoking because of the smoke, but those with addictions should just get over it. I can support tax incentives for non-smoking businessed or permits for smoking businesses and non smoking public venues, but where you patronize is a choice. If someplace is smoking and you don't like it, then don't go. Take your business elsewhere, but deciding for other people where it is they can be is just wrong. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused
[Mpls] REMINDER-TONIGHT-Give Input on the Hennpin County Human Services Budget
The Jordan Area Community Council, and Folwell Webber-Camden Neighborhood Associations along with Hennepin County invite you to attend an important community meeting and make your voice heard. Invite follows: Before the Hennepin County Human Services 2005 Budget starts being shaped, we need to hear from YOU!! Human services demands on local government keep rising. Revenues dont. How would YOU prioritize services? Are there activities that can be dropped? How can the county, providers and other community organizations get better outcomes with current resources? Ideas from last falls community meetings made a difference. Come find out how and help shape the 2005 Human Services Budget. Staff leaders will be there listening. Please attend this first in a series of important community meetings around Hennepin County Wednesday, May 5, 6:30 8:30 p.m. Unity House 2507 Fremont Ave N. All Hennepin County Citizens Are Invited! Jonathan Palmer Working in Jordan Living in Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] An Opportunity to Give Input on the Hennpin County Human Services Budget
The Jordan Area Community Council, and Folwell Webber-Camden Neighborhood Associations along with Hennepin County invite you to attend an important community meeting and make your voice heard. Invite follows: Before the Hennepin County Human Services 2005 Budget starts being shaped, we need to hear from YOU!! Human services demands on local government keep rising. Revenues dont. How would YOU prioritize services? Are there activities that can be dropped? How can the county, providers and other community organizations get better outcomes with current resources? Ideas from last falls community meetings made a difference. Come find out how and help shape the 2005 Human Services Budget. Staff leaders will be there listening. Please attend this first in a series of important community meetings around Hennepin County Wednesday, May 5, 6:30 8:30 p.m. Unity House 2507 Fremont Ave N. All Hennepin County Citizens Are Invited! Jonathan Palmer Working in Jordan Living in Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Why I DO support RT's pick for civil rights
Okay, so let me get this straight. You, a candidate for school board and champion of education, bring one book and one article that you wrote to the table as reference? I don't think I've every written any report, or position paper from only one source, but let's just go with yours because it was all you came up with. Our Kind of People does reference the Links, the Boule, Jack and Jill, etc. but it also cites the Black sororities and fraternities as I mentioned before such as the Kappas of which Booker (who started this thread) was president and charter member of his school's chapter. Further the NAACP, of whom you've proudly stated you're a member of, has as it's founders, WEB Dubois, who was the first Black person to get a Ph.D. from Harvard (got a Masters there as well), was awarded a grant to study abroad by Rutherford B. Hayes and created and advanced the idea of the Talented Tenth, the upper crust of educated Black people who would guide the race in it's proper direction; and Ida B. Wells Barnett who was well known for her anti-lynching campaign was also a soror of Delta Sigma Theta, mentioned in Our Kind of People and also founded and developed a local and national networks of black women's club including the Alpha Suffrage Club of Chicago, the Negro Fellowship League and the Women's Era Club which later changed it's name to the Ida B. Wells club, and is described as the first civic organization for African American women. I'd go go through the others, but I think you've got the idea. Secondly, the author's research was done in Martha's Vineyard. The drug store and the McDonald become elite social clubs on the Vineyard. The point is that the book is about the upper class and mentions the organizations they're a part of not the other way around. And just as your Target on West Broadway is not the same as your Target in Edina, so it goes for civic organizations in the Vineyard vs the Midwest. More importantly, if you're going to consider this a legitimate issue, then what does that say about the founders of the NAACP or Booker and the good work he does. You can't have it both ways, either these are all elitist organizations and anyone who's a member can't be counted on to do good work, or they are merely organizations people are a part of and do not define who they are or what they will do. As for your article (and the price tag you mentioned) I can find no reference other than your writing, which I think you must agree, can't be considered fact without some form of support, but we'll run with the supposition, mentions the group being encouraged to join to support a candidate, which is not the same thing as joining forces, but you're hardly an unbias party with an objective view. By the way this elite social club did a black tie fundraiser in 2002 and raised $20,000 for African American Family Services, in 2000-1 they funded the exhibition of Clementine Hunter, Louisiana's best known, self taught artist, and I believe it was just a few months back that the they selected the Jeremiah Program, which helps low income single mothers build their future through education and personal development as their partner and beneficiary of their 2004 annual benefit. You know, for an elite social club they sure seem to be doing a lot in the community. The event chair, btw, was Dr. Reatha Clark King, and if you don't know how much impact she's had on the community and how connect to the community she's been, you'd better ask somebody. So maybe you or Booker or someone else can tell me again what the problem is with her being a part of this organization which is doing lots of things in the community? Jonathan Palmer Victory In a message dated 5/1/2004 1:51:25 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 4/30/2004 5:28:47 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I will ask you as I have Booker, what evidence you have for any of this? What makes it [the Links] an elite social club? How do you know this? What do they do that you're defining as elite? What proof do you have for your assertions that it joined forces to do anything? The Links, Boule, and Jack Jill are among the better know organizations for upper class African Americans. Books written about those clubs for the African-American upper class include: Our Kind of People: Inside America's Black Upper Class, by Lawrence Otis Graham. In 1998 one of the qualifications for membership in the Minneapolis-St. Paul Links chapter was a 4 year college degree, the initiation fee was $1,000. In a news report about the election of Minneapolis NAACP branch officers that first appeared in the March 10-16, 1999 issue of the Pulse of the Twin Cities, I observed that, The slate headed by Jefferson, and later by Campbell received the support of an influential organization of upper-class African American women (and men) called the Links. The
Re: [Mpls] Why I can't support RT Civil Rights Director
Booker, Here''s the thing, you've made a lot of statements, but have not been able to back them up, and don't seem to have a clear understanding of even the accusations you've made. You say she's too connected to the establishment, but you offer no proof or even examples. You say she's an elitist and part of SEVERAL elitist organization, yet the only one you take umbrage with is the Links, Inc, a volunteer service and development organization for women of color, yet excuse your fraternity which is so similar as to be cited in the very source (sole source) that Doug mentioned. The only difference is that I'm aware of the Links working to help the community here. You're saying that the $600.00 you paid is a lot less, but again offered no proof. What is the price tag on elitism? At what dollar figure does it go from being reasonable to being elite? The bottom line is that you are being prejudice under the pretense of protecting the Civil Rights department. The irony is staggering. You don't know this woman, you don't have any proof or support for your claims yet you will wantonly cast aspersions at her character without provocation. And in my opinion, you're better than that. This position isn't a watchdog, it's a visible leader and a proactive problem solver. We don't need someone who's going to hunker down and watch in case things happen, that's reactive. We need someone who will take the lead on managing the programs, identifying the problems and developing long term collaborative and sustainable solutions. I believe Ms. Khalifa will take this charge head on, but it's not something that any one person could or should do alone. She should not have to shut you up, instead she should be able to count on you being there to lend your expertise, your knowledge and your activism to make certain that not only she succeeds, but the department does as well. What better way to ensure that the needs of the community are met and the priorities that you think are important are focussed on? We have too many people who claim to be for the people but when it comes down to it, all they do is complain, make accusations, pick fights and call themselves a leader. They don't work on solution and they don't approach things collaboratively. Why? Why is the only tactic attack? No person in the City is pure, unadulterated evil, so why not help people succeed? Why not work with people rather than being on them like white on rice? This doesn't mean that you don't hold them accountable or don't demand what is fair and right, just that you don't have to hit someone upside the head in order to work on issues. Give her a chance, a fair and honest one, because everyone deserves that. That's what civil rights is all about. Jonathan Palmer Victory My grandfather told me there are two kinds of people in this world: those who do the work, and those who take the credit. He said to be in the first group because there was less competition. -Indira Gandhi In a message dated 5/1/2004 9:40:31 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mr. JP I just want to say one thing. I do not agree that my frat or any other Black Greek organization is elitist. I can assure that the $600 I paid to join Kappa is a lot less than what you would pay to be a part of the Links, Inc. Bottom line you, me, Doug and others will probably never agree on this woman being civil rights director. My t underlying argument is that is that she is to connected to the establishment that she is supposed to watchdog. Maybe the position should be an elected. I am done fighting this. I just hope that when she gets in that she does some good and shuts ME and other nay sayers up. But if she doesn't I will be on her like white on rice. This woman won't even be able to leave her office without thinking about me. I will praise her if she does well also. Booker T Hodges North side REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Why I don't support RT pick for civil rights
I can appreciate the fact that you can't support Jayne Khalifa without knowing her qualifications better, but I think that's a good reason to remain impartial and request or even insist on knowing the candidate better, it is not a reason to organize against her, make unfounded accusations against her or the Mayor for appointing her, or resort to name calling. I'm glad that you apologized and postponed the meeting to organize against her, I think it was the honorable thing to do. I have to disagree with your assertions however, regarding Ms. Khalifa's affiliations and experience. To begin with, you said that she was a member of several elitist organizations yet reference only the Links, Inc. If there are more organizations that your referencing, I think you should state that, otherwise I think it's a bit misrepresentative to call it several when it's just one. As for the Links itself, while your opinion may be that it's elitist, I would challenge you to provide some evidence that it actually is if you're going to proclaim it as such. For those unaware of it, The Links is a volunteer service and social organization that is directed towards women of color, but primarily has as its membership and focus African American professional women. It is very similar to African American fraternities and sororities, one of which, if I'm not mistaken, not only were you president, but also a charter member of your alma mater's chapter, Kappa Alpha Psi. While I respect and have plenty of friends who are Kappas, if the Links are elitist because of their membership then I think Kappa and other fraternities and sororities fall under that same umbrella and in fact have more exclusionary practices and admittance criteria. I would also question which of those two is more geared towards community service and empowerment and which is more social, but that's a subjective opinion. It would be great if you would share what is elitist about the Links, Inc. On to her experience, to which you said she has a poor track record of fighting civil rights, which I'm assuming you meant to add a for in there, otherwise I'd agree with you, because she hasn't been fighting civil rights, but rather fighting for civil rights. You referenced the boards that she sits on and questioned them as examples of fighting for civil rights when they were not presented as such, but were reference by me in response to your statement that she was a member of several elitist organizations. You also questioned what she had done in her positions to work on civil rights, simultaneously stating that you didn't know what she did in those positions, and that your research said that she didn't do any number of things you mentioned as examples for working on civil rights. While I think that these statements contradict each other, I would be real interested in what your research indicated, because what your argument is positing is that she has essentially done nothing in these positions, and without you offering anything concrete, it's merely rumor an innuendo. But on to specifics that I can see, as Director of Operations, she was responsible for statewide elections among other things, and given that one of the main issues of the Civil Rights movement was voter education, registration and support, and given that I'm not aware of any disenfranchisement of voters under her watch, I think that speaks volumes to what she was doing, ensuring people's right to vote and be counted. As Commissioner of the Department of Human rights I know that she successfully settled 15 union filed greivances and 3 lawsuits that she inherited and maintained the Cabinet Level status of the Agency. There's much more that she did, but I have yet to see you or anyone else offer any evidence of things that she didn't do and should have or that she did improperly. I think you raise important questions, but they're questions that should be asked not supposed upon. If you've got evidence you should put that out, otherwise it's disingenous to merely state that your research says she didn't do things and provide no evidence, and to limit the criteria for accomplishment to only those questions that you asked. As for your point about Ms. Khalifa's personality, again, I'd ask you what your reference where this is coming from. What is your experience with her that has caused you to form this opinion, and those of others in other communities of color and what evidence do you have that she's far removed. So far, all I've heard is that you don't like one of the organizations she's a part of and that you don't know her experience. Hardly justification to call her removed from the people or to insinuate that she's cool with the administration. Whether she's cool or not is immaterial, the issue with the last director wasn't her coolness with the Mayor or friendship with specific elected officials, but that she couldn't get the
Re: [Mpls] Why I DO support RT's pick for civil rights
I will ask you as I have Booker, what evidence you have for any of this? What makes it an elite social club? How do you know this? What do they do that you're defining as elite? What proof do you have for your assertions that it joined forces to do anything? It would be real nice if those of you making accusations could provide some support for what your saying rather than merely making unsubstantiated claims. Perhaps while you're doing this you can comment on the elite nature of their HBCU bus trips, high school student scholarship awards, adopt-a-family programs and Juneteenth activities just to name a few. I would expect if they were an elite social club that they would be sitting on the veranda, drinking mint julips and eating tea biscuits over the latest gossip rather than doing volunteer and service work, but maybe you have a different definition of elite... And I'm unclear how RT made his pick before the screening / selection process was done, and without opportunities for public comment. when this is the same process that the Police Chief search followed. The opportunity for public comment comes at the public hearing once the nomination goes through Exec. Committee. More to the point, the finalists were announced mid-April. The advisory panel well before that, at any point anyone could have called, written or emailed to RT, Natalie Johnson-Lee or any advisory panel member and commented. And isn't want you're doing now making public comment? I'm unclear how you can legitimately make this statement and would appreciate you expanded on how this process hasn't been fair. Because again, I've yet to hear a valid concern. On to Booker's point about the degree, I too, was concerned about it...until the situation was explained to me, and whoever sent you [Booker] the information either didn't know the whole story or intentionally left it out, but my understanding is that she thought she completed her degree, she walked in commencement, and went on with her life. She just recently found out that there was some snafu with a few credits (I think a professor who forgot to turn in a grade or something) and the professor has since passed away. She is currently rectifying the situation, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. It is not a flag for me because junk like this happens and it's not the same as dropping out of school or never going. And for those of you who think jobs are the key to empowerment vs. education, I would think that seeing how much she's accomplished since that time would be impressive to you. Again, let's raise the level of debate. Let's take a serious look at the nominee and the issues, and ask the serious questions. Making unfounded or incomplete accusations doesn't get us to the truth faster, it merely obfuscates the situation and creates more confusion. More to the point its disingenous and beneath anyone who is legitimately concerned about this position. Let's leave the phantom fears and menaces for the next bad Star Wars installment. Jonathan Palmer Victory In a message dated 4/30/2004 2:33:56 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree with Mr. Hodges that as much care should be taken to engage the community in the process of selecting the head of the Minneapolis Civil Rights Department as was taken in selecting the police chief. We need to talk about how civil rights enforcement is going to be done before deciding who is the best qualified to do it. However, RT made his pick before the screening / selection process was done, and without opportunities for public comment. We have a civil rights problem in Minneapolis that is no less serious than the police conduct problem. Just consider the issue of race-based discrimination in the job and housing markets. The city can take some steps to enforce fair housing and employment laws that it (and the state and federal governments) have not taken. Why isn't that happening? I do not question Jayne Khalifa's qualifications for any number of top administrative jobs. However, I am concerned that she may be too well-connected. A organization to which Ms. Khalifa is afilliated, the Links, for example, is the elite social club that joined forces with DFL politicians to install the current leadership of the Minneapolis NAACP back in 1999. Hello. Doug Mann, King Field Minneapolis school board candidate - - REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Endorsements for school board candidacy
In a message dated 4/26/2004 6:17:14 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Individuals endorsing my candidacy this year include Ron Edwards, former chair and vice chair of the Minneapolis Civil Rights Commission for 16 years and longest-serving president of the Minneapolis Urban League (served for 11 years) JP: Actually the longest serving President was my uncle Gleason Glover who served for 25 years until his untimely passing. That position is now held by Clarence Hightower. Ron Edwards served as Chairman of the Board from 1978-1987 which is 9 years but still the longest serving Chairman. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] RE: Response to Rei[ne]man Post
In a message dated 4/12/2004 10:12:12 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The mission of the MPRB is to provide a set of public services, and I agree that such services should include clean waters and recreational programming. But I contend that wi-fi supports that mission. As with libraries, it is a public good relevant to users of parks -- even though it is a new one like skateboarding facilities and off-leash recreational areas for dogs. The financial cost may make it an unreasonable service to provide (although I tend not to think so), but this is a question separate from whether wi-fi constitutes a branching out of the MPRB mission. In a message dated 4/12/2004 10:37:10 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Access to and enhancement of communication and information is the basis of civil society. Other cities on the planet, although not without their turf battles, are more aggressive about developing an infrastructure with a much longer look to the future than keeping the playgrounds neat and the lakes clean. Jonathan Palmer Responds: How about before we develop cutting edge technology, we make sure that all the parks have the basics first. While this discussion is going about how necessary it is to have Wi-Fi for a civil society, Jordan Park is one of the last, if not the last park to still have the old chemically treated wood playground equipment. Don't you think before we start arguing over the digital divide between us and other cities we ought to deal with the resource divide between neighborhoods and parks in Minneapolis? The replacement of said equipment was moved up from 2007 to 2005 thanks to the efforts of Jon Olson, but how do you explain to one of the kids in Jordan that they've got to wait until next year for the basics in playground equipment, because some kid in one of the nice neighborhoods needs to have internet access while sitting by the lake? And we've got to help fund the replacement! It's all well and good to speak of how important this is for basic services but while some parks are getting skate parks, Jordan doesn't have a park building. How about before we start talking about necessary amenities we make sure that all the parks have the basic necessities. Jonathan Palmer live in Victory Work in Jordan REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Transit Police
I don't know if this is the reason why or not, but I sent an email to my Met Council Rep (and I know at least one other who did this) and suggested that since the strike was going on, the Transit Police could be helpful in patroling bus line corridors with major safety issues, to support MPD efforts and act as an additional deterrent. Don't know if this is why they're out there, but it could be a reason. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] RE: HIGH ALERT - H.F. 1829
In a message dated 3/10/2004 1:14:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And that is where the true genius of H.F. 1829 comes in. Nobody on this list has yet mentioned its most important provision, which is the creation of a legal classification for non-violent drug offenders. This provision would require that all people who are brought up solely on drug charges be referred for a drug treatment screening. If they are recommended for treatment, then they may be diverted into an 18 month program instead of being sent to prison. A prison sentence may still be imposed if they violate the conditions of their treatment program, and this designation does not apply if the drug charges occur in connection with a weapons violation, use of force, or if the person has a prior conviction for a violent offense. And that would be my cue then. There's a few pieces of the puzzle that you and Jordan K. are missing in regards to this. Having talked with Keith a number of times regarding this, I know about more about his logic, which is trying to get at the person who inadvertently gets caught up in using drugs and then ends up with a maximum sentence. It's designed to get at the user and not the dealer and that's where part of the problem is. The other part is the classification of non-violent offender. The push for the classification is to have Meth (which is the major concern in the rural communities) be classified as violent and Marijuana (which is the major concern in the urban communities) classified as non-violent. In doing this, you effectively give the rural communities the tools to deal with their drug problems and reduce the ability of the urban communities. Jordan was right about the war on drugs having a racial component, but not in the way that he meantwe're effectively taking away the tools that deal with the impacted communities. And yes, there's savings to be had with this bill, but it will not suddenly be dumped into treatment programs as proponents seem to think, but rather would work to fix other deficits. More importantly, it's focused on the drug user. I am all for better treatment options for them, but that's where the problem is for the prisons, not for the neighborhoods. The majority of people in jail on drug offenses for the amounts that this bill will affect are users who get busted, not dealers. And that's where the real issue is. On the streets of Jordan (and I'm sure in other impact neighborhoods), the dealers are not from the neighborhood, they come in from other parts to the city and state. They stand on the corner and flag down the buyers who are also from outside the city. They direct the buyer around the corner to another member who takes the money and either has the drugs or directs them to another person who has them. Their supply is refilled by young kids on bikes. Those dispense drugs carry just enough so that if caught it's a 5th degree offense, the kids are minors and face juvenile offenses if caught. The system is organized and in place. How does sending them to drug treatment solve this problem? They are not concerned about penalties, because they know what to carry. Raise the amount and they carry more. Classify them as non-violent and then explain about the 20-month old that gets shot in the fallout of the New Deal that failed to take these dealers out. The concerns of at least the Jordan neighborhood and probably others is that these changes aren't designed to get at the dealers, much less the ones that come in from the suburbs, along with their buyers. Decriminalization and regulation or zoning would be two ways to more effectively deal with this, but this bill doesn't help any of the impacted communities. Put something in about dealers coming in from other neighborhoods or cities, focus the treatment aspects on the users and not leave loopholes for the dealers, and then you'll begin to get at the real problems for the neighborhoods. Jonathan Palmer working in Jordan REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Rybak,McManus and Delmonico:Oh My!
I find it a bit disconcerting when people allege misleading intentions either intentionally or unintentionally do the same thing, convoluting the story and adding emphasis and allusions that don't quite fit the facts. That's really where you can find out what the truth is in most matters. To be clear, Maj. Temple filed a suit alleging discrimination which was dismissed last year. According to Delmonico, it was because she was an at-will employee. However, I have yet to see anything to support this, and it could just as easily be for lack of merit or evidence. Wrongful termination suits are usually dropped if there isn't evidence to show discrimination or other reasons for wrongful termination. This is gap#1 in the McManus is an evil discriminator story. Gap #2 is why she was fired. The Strib says that McManus was told he could bring in his own team, asked for her resignation because she was undermining him and didn't share his philosophy. When she balked, she was placed on leave and then fired. She filed what I'm assuming is a wrongful termination suit which was dismissed. Then she filed an EEOC which upheld that she was not given equal pay and then fired because of complaint about this. Here's what doesn't make sense, if she has been on the force for 29 years, why is the complaint just coming up now (or in the last year) and how is it that the Chief asks for her resignation (as he did with others) because she doesn't share his vision, but she alleges she was fired for complaining about the pay inequities that developed before McManus came to Dayton and which she didn't address for 28 years It's important to note a few things here about EEOC procedure. The EEOC and most State's Depts of Human or Civil Rights make you choose either a discrimination charge or a lawsuit, but not both except in special cases like the Equal Pay Act. Procedurally under the EEOC's guidelines, a charging party receives a right to sue notice after the determination of a violation (or a request for said notice and enough evidence discovered), and can then file suit. However, after a violation is determined, the EEOC will then attempt conciliation which was in the document Sgt. Delmonico posted, but it will consider bringing suit only if they are unable to bring about conciliation. If they decide not to sue, they will issue a notice closing the case and informing the charging party of the right to sue. Title VII cases are forwarded to the Dept. of Justice. The letter mentioned in the Strib stating the DOJ was not suing was this closing of the case. This is Gap #3 So what we have is an officer who was undermining McManus, whom he asked for her resignation and she refused. She was terminated as an at will employee, filed a discrimination or wrongful termination suit which was dismissed. Filed a EEOC charge on pay issues that were in place before McManus arrived but she hadn't addressed in her 29 year tenure. This case was subsequently closed ( I would hazard a guess that the discrimination determined was not willful discrimination as that would have prompted a lawsuit, and that the City of Dayton could have merely denied the charges and not provided evidence or details. If this were the case, the determination would be made solely on the evidence presented by the charging party. So it could easily be that the determination was based on Maj. Temple's claims. This would account for the case being closed which shows that it is not sustained). And now the lawyer has filed an appeal and is talking to reporters. I'm not seeing the evidence which says that McManus discriminated against anyone, and barring that I think it is rash and irresponsible to start lobbing accusations around. Once you understand the process, it really is a negligible consideration, and I am a little concerned that rather than doing the research like I or anyone else interested did to find information, that people are very quick to make a determination and try to paint a nasty picture. It behooves us all to actually examine situations before we rush to judgement and to be watchful, but also give our elected and appointed officials the benefit of the doubt before we decide to hold mock courts and witch hunts. It creates panic and breeds distrust. How about we try working towards the good of the community and allow due process instead? Jonathan Palmer Victory If you think twice, before you speak one; you will speak twice, the better for it. -Wendell P. Whalum, Wit and Wisdom In a message dated 3/5/2004 7:47:14 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is a reply to John Delmonico's post regarding William McManus that was circulated on March 4, in response to a post from Rybak's office: for the full effect read from the bottom up. I would also be helpful to read http://www.startribune.com/stories/1557/4643665.html from the Star Tribune. Roberta writes: It is
Re: [Mpls] It is Rybak's job to address homelessness
You know Margaret, I don't think I've seen anybody go through such lengths not to simply come up with a suggestion or a plan as I've seen you do with this. And since you felt it necessary to direct this at me, I'll respond. First and foremost, if you really think that it's the job of City elected officials to come up with solutions then you're really missing the point of representative government. We elect representatives to manage the City and provide basic services, not to fix society's problems. It is our job as a citizens to voice concerns, it is our job as experts in areas or even as someone with a good idea to suggest it, it is not any of our jobs as citizens to say here, fix it. Further, you cannot advocate for homelessness or any other societal issue to take precedence over other issues because it is so important and then abdicate responsibility to someone else to work on developing the solutions. Even if you feel it is someone else's responsibility, you lower the issue's significance by you not being willing to work on a solution yourself. If it is so important an issue, then everyone has the responsibility of dealing with it regardless of their elected capacity. Further, you can't complain that others don't come up with solutions if you can't do that yourself. It is one thing to have a plan and to question why things aren't being done that way, it is another to not be able to come up with ideas and simply stand on the side complaining. In addition, in the space of a day a number of people have come up with ideas. Barb Lickness has a great idea that everyone can do, check with your local churches. Easy, no elected official capacity required. You also said two days ago that you sent the Mayor a list of things he could do that would not cost the city a cent, but would serve to advocate for change. Why not: 1. Share that with the List so we can see what can be done? There could be more people who would do these things and more people that would hold the Mayor and other elected officials accountable, provided they are smart and sensible steps; 2. Give him a chance to do what you suggested, it's only been two days. How about working towards change instead of demanding people do what you insist is important? How about checking with the churches around you? How about bringing the ideas you sent to the Mayor out so other people can work towards them too? How about letting people camp on your lawn and checking with your neighbors about doing the same? How about we try and fix the problem instead of just complaining about it? Homelessness is not a city issue, it's a societal one. And in order to fix it, we have to change the mindset and get people to care, which I think most people (including the Mayor) do, and then we have to convince them that the trade off is important enough. It's never as simple, unfortunately, as we just take the money from one area and put it in another. I don't agree with public funding for the stadium, and if the decision were totally up to me, I would put any money for a stadium first and foremost into addressing societal problems, but then again I also think that elected officials shouldn't be making hundreds of thousands of dollars either. Public service should be its own reward beyond the salary needed to handle your regular expenses. However, it's not up to me or any other individual solely, that's what democracy is about. And whether I agree with it or not, there are people who are not corporate raiders who support a stadium. Plenty of sports fans who are happy to have public money go for that, and they have just as much right to their say as I do. Further, you have to recognize that a stadium or other development brings money and resources. Whether you support it or not, you can't make a legitimate decision with out considering all the factors. This is why you need a plan Margaret, this is why it does no good to keep yelling at the Mayor to fix it. What makes your issue or your demands more important than anyone else's? Give you an example, I've talked a bit on this list about Level III sex offenders and the compacting of them in Jordan and Phillips. Now I could just say it's the Legislature's responsibility and they should fix it, but that won't solve the problem. There's too many people who don't want them and will not move on the issue. So myself and other people in those neighborhood are taking action and developing plans. Residents from Jordan and myself went and testified before the Senate Public Safety committee about the issue, and when we did that, we had already worked with other neighbors and our elected officials to develop solutions and plans. We presented those solutions as well as our arguments to the committee, now we can hold them accountable, because we've given them the ideas. We could not if we had just said fix it. Solving the problems of society belongs
Re: [Mpls] Is it your job to help end homelessness or just the governments?
Can anyone share ideas or experiences on how to overcome this far more treacherous obstacle? I know folks in some neighborhoods like Whittier or Ventura Village would say that neighborhoods like mine need to suck it up and take on some of the load, but I don't think that kind of argument is going to fly very well with NIMBYs or folks leaning that way. What kinds of strategies might there be for either opening NIMBY minds or at least, getting other members of the neighborhood to look past the NIMBY ranting? What about appealing to human nature and responsibility? If we're approaching it as a we've got to help each other out and pull together rather than a y'all better suck it up idea, it's much more doable generally. Another approach is exposure, get people to see that homeless people are human and the reality of the issues. One of the things that Mitch Snyder's organization did in DC was to bring a group of elected officials together for a dinner which was served to them. Midway through they explained that all of the food was harvested from what restaurants and stores throw away. The point was twofold: to show the quality of food that was being wasted, and to get officials to ease up on the laws surrounding the discarding of food and the recovery of it by homeless people. After that, the City eased up on the regulations, and restaurants and stores began to separate out usable food and make it accessible. One of the other groups I worked with challenged people to simply spend time, you would be surprised at the stories, history and experience the homeless have. Once I got into working with the homeless, I spent a lot of time talking on the street. We had one guy (he was called Skyking) who was always intoxicated and incoherent, but he could play Bach and Jerry Lee Lewis. Rachmaninoff and Billy Joel. Get people to know the homeless and see them as people, and they'll be less resistant to shelters and other solutions in their neighborhoods. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] JACC Forum
In celebration of Black History month come listen and learn from longtime political activist and former Black Panther, and the only American to have ever successfully self authored a civil/human rights case to the United Nations Human Rights Committee (UNHRC), Larry Pinkney. What:JACC Forum When: Thursday, February 19, 2004, 6:30pm Dinner, 7:00pm Program Where: Unity House, 2507 Fremont Avenue N Who:Larry Pinkney, Longtime political activist and former Black Panther Featuring Soul Food this month by the incomparable, Eat With Abandon catering. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council (JACC) 612-529-9267 REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Demagogic language used/ Smallstakeholdersbruised/Neighborhoods lose
First off, let me say thank you Barb, because I think she did an excellent job delineating the difference between a landlord and a slumlord. Her posts encapsulates at least what I think of as the difference in many ways. Bill: How many people must you know before you acknowledge your demagogic language? It stuns me that two landlords have said slumlord is offensive and you choose to dismiss us. Jonathan: Bill, I'm truly sorry that you got attacked, but it sounds more like the guy had other issues and then used the term as an excuse, that still doesn't make it the same as the atrocities committed in the name of racism. Nor does it make it demagogic or even actually offensive. It is your take that is offensive regardless of the usage, and I can understand and respect that, and just as Barb described, it makes it harder for good landlords such as you to do your job. But there are other property owners who do think the use is acceptable, at least one of which weighed in here. Because I disagree with you, though, does not mean your dismissed by me or even wrong, just that I disagree with you. And that should be allowed, just as it is okay that you disagree with others that find slumlord acceptable as a word. I can respect your position and your frustration, but if you can't respect my right to mine, then we've reached an impasse and cannot have a fruitful discourse. I'd rather there not be a reason or need for the word, but in my opinion, 'bad property owner does not encompass the magnitude that you are dealing with when talking about someone like Gregge Johnson. Maybe we'll find another word to use, but until then, I'll respect your feelings and position on it, and I hope you'll respect mine. Bill: I am glad to hear this. Is it new? I owned rental property in Jordan and never heard of JACC's efforts to work with landlords. A year ago, I gave up on the North side and sold everything. There were multiple reasons I left, but Poor Property Managers like Gregge Johnson was one of them. Jonathan: I don't know if it's completely new, but I've been in the position 5 mos, so the efforts that I bring and the approaches I use are new. Case in point, I had a number of residents approach me from a particular landlord's property with complaints and issues, some pretty serious. I spoke with Inspections to verify them, then set up a couple of meetings with him to talk about the problems and solutions. He ended up selling his properties, but it was because he came to the conclusion that he was trying to do to much and had spread himself to thin, and did not want to ruin his family's reputation or the neighborhood. Had he decided to stay, there were some options that I would have plugged him into to help develop and upkeep his property. A neighborhood functions best when all of its components, residents, business, elected officials, etc., are working together not at odds. I'm sorry, also, that you left the Northside. It's an exciting time, and we have a lot of things going on over here. We've got 3 great Council Members that are working together with the Mayor and the neighborhoods to develop and improve the quality of life up here. There's redevelopment already planned on West Broadway and Lowry and we're looking at Penn too. In the next couple of years, there's going to be some great changes, and some wonderful opportunities. So feel free to come back and work up here and I guarantee you'll find a Jordan and JACC that is more active in working not only with property owners, but with neighbors to make our neighborhood and the Northside a great place to be. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Demagogic language used/ Small stakeholders bruised/Neighborhoods ...
Wow Keith, we had the protest outside of Gregge Johnson's home 2 1/2 months ago, maybe it's time to let go of the anger and live in the now. I had no idea you were holding on to this for such a long time. But just so that everyone's clear since you decided to make a tangential point not related to the discussion but rather your own personal grudge you've apparently been holding onto since mid-November. At that time I announced that Jordan Residents including Don Samuels and myself were going out protest at Gregge Johnson's house, we referred to him as a slumlord. He has numerous properties through dummy companies, has hundreds of housing violations on his properties, leaves them in disrepair and packs Level III Sex Offenders into them. He is a slumlord. I stand by the reference, and I apologize for nothing. But we already discussed this months ago when you wrote me to criticize my use of the term and you compared the use of the word slumlord to the word nigger. And I will tell you again, as I did then, while I have no idea why your sensibilities may have been offended, since your name was not invoked in any way, but the difference between slumlord and nigger is like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing it. If you can't tell that then maybe you shouldn't be hanging the Black community as much as you do because many would probably not be as lenient as I am. Of course this isn't the first time that you've tried to compare those two words either, and maybe that's telling. This is, by the way, the second time you've tried to tell me what my job is and how to do it...you have neither the purview nor experience to begin to understand what goes into my job much less evaluate it. And it's just embarassing to watch you try. Keith, I don't do the same to you though, and I'm surprised that you do not extend the same courtesy. I don't pose questions or statements to you by way of third person posts to the list, asking you how many properties you have along West Broadway and how many are vacant, and what is your intended use Waitaminute, that is my job. And since you've been so anxious to examine what I am and am not supposed to do, and since you keep asking me to comment on list about your posts about West Broadway, how about answering the questions. Because right now I'm all in a redevelopment mode, Penn Avenue, West Broadway, Lowry. Each of them affects Jordan, and I along with residents, council members, organizations, etc. are looking at what does and doesn't need to be there. So since you're keen on higher standards and on professionalism, let's have a talk about what your properties have been doing and what kind of plans to you have to participate as a legitimate stakeholder. Since you are so keen on what people should refrain from doing, let's have a discussion about the detriment of leaving lots and properties vacant along major commercial corridors. Or the dangers of continually comparing the use of the word slumlord to the use of the word nigger, one has to wonder why it keeps coming to mind for you. Despite your perceived slight at words used 2 1/2 months ago, I have never treated you and your business with anything but civility and respect, yet you want to start questioning the intentions and integrity and myself and others like Dennis Plante who work hard to try and improve the community of which you are supposed to be a part. So let's really go, let's put it all on the table, and I hope you've got something more than a dictionary to bring. Jonathan Palmer Victory So welcome to the Terrordome REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Demagogic language used/ Small stakeholdersbruised/Neighborhoods l...
Dennis already covered just about everything that needed to be covered, but there's a couple of corrections that should be made to your assertions. First, in regards to your definition of slumlord, while Merriams is one of my favorites and defines slumlord as you did, both the American Heritage Dictionary and Dictionary.com defines it as: An owner of slum property, especially one that overcharges tenants and allows the property to deteriorate. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=slumlord) (http://www.bartleby.com/61/64/S0486400.html) In a majority rule situation, we'd have to go with that, and I think it is a bit more specific than Merriams in this case. However, to correct your logic, I would not need to know Johnson's income if we accept your definition, but r ather the appraised value of the property, the average or acceptable rental amount for that property and what he charges (if I'm focussed on profit solely as a cash asset and not as equity or other value), all of which I do. I stand by my statement. I think those of us dealing with Johnson and others are in a better position to judge what is and isn't appropriate for referential use. Finally I don't justify the use of the word slumlord because it isn't as bad as nigger, in fact I don't need to justify the use of the word at all because it is a legitimate description of a particular type of property owner that follows a particular set of practices. I dare you or anyone else to delineate the same justification for the word nigger. Keith, however, is the only one so far trying to equate the two. And there is no way to logically or reasonably do that. Nigger along with racism are both invented concepts to justify Slavery and other atrocities committed against African Americans. Mentioning them in them same sentence or trying to use one to justify dislike at the word slumlord is not only offensive but disingenous in it's effort. I've yet to see one person lynched, raped, whipped, castrated, murdered etc., because someone thought they were a slumlord or wanted to justify their treatment of said slumlord. All we did was picket his house. And yes he does recruit Sex Offenders, he sees it as giving them a second chance and has said so. He doesn't, however, recruit them to Elk River. The name calling, as you put it, is not the effort we have put out. We are not standing in the street talking to people trying to convince them to call him a slumlord. It is referential and descriptive, and it is accurate. To be clear, it is not a term bantered around lightly or used on anyone who displeases us. We have a lot of good property owners and we praise and support them. We have a number of struggling property owners who we work with both out front and behind the scenes to try and get them the help they need or to find a more viable option for them and the community. And then we have the Gregge Johnson's of the world. So while it may raise flags for you or Keith, it is truly a reference to someone who will not work with anyone and continues to allow property to deteriorate and the quality of life in the neighborhood to be destroyed, caring only about the profit they are making. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Language choices while under siege/ Flip advise from a safe zone
Dyna is unhappy, and very upset, in Hawthorne. Yet I do not here her using demagogic language against others when describing the dynamic of her problem neighborhood, and block. Remember THAT when you peruse her comments. She is actually coping, and cool. Note Dennis's willingness to use demagogic language; I am in a position to believe he will act demagogically, too Keith, perhaps you and I are looking at a different definition of demagogically and demagogue. Here's some excerpts from her posts in this thread: On a summer day this 'hood has the look and feel of a prison yard, and violence is frequent. To survive here you have to stay inside a lot, lock up anything of value, and keep your vehicles off the street and inside a tall fence if not a garage. Dennis, there's no point in sugar coating it- our neighborhoods are de facto crime containment zones. Jonathan is a great guy and I wish him luck, but the problems here in the criminal containment zones are pretty much intractable. About as safe as going for a stroll in the prison yard without a guard in sight. I have a few neighbors I can trust, but most have left. Sadly, this is probably the future trend for the impacted neighborhoods- a relief valve for overcrowded prisons and jails with little legal business activity remaining. Just so we're clear, Websters defines Demagogue as: 1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power, 2 : a leader championing the cause of the common people in ancient times. Now I doubt you're referring to the second when you're talking about Dennis, and while I think that Dyna has the right to both her opinion and coping mechanism, I'm not seeing the problem solving table that she is allegedly sitting atwith you. In fact most of her posts talk about how hopeless the situation is. And while she does point out some key aspects of the problem, I haven't seen solutions offered. Dennis and others on the other hand have offered not only what they do but suggestions on what others, including Dyna, can do. More to the point, they offered their perspective in response to Dyna's statements. I think if you want to allege anyone making demagogic statements, you may want to examine what you wrotel. This is right now an exchange of opinions and approaches. Let's keep it that way. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Fwd: Hints for living in America
Forwarded on behalf of Don Samuels. ---BeginMessage--- I tried to send the pasted below to the issues list and not sure it went thru. Can you post it for me just in case? When the constitution of the United States was written, it became the ultimate political document of all time. But it existed side by side, for two centuries, with slavery, genocide and oppression, even at the hands of the ones who wrote it. A perfect document from imperfect times. America was never perfect and still is not. Our neighborhoods were never perfect either. At the times when these neighborhoods were most peaceful, African Americans were barred from moving into them. That was violence in a most damning form. For many, in all of those old imperfect times, it was just the way things are. The status quo seemed so intractable, so overwhelming and historical that the prospect of change, personal or communal, was unimaginable. Even the visionary Thomas Jefferson said slavery was like having a tiger by the tail. It was incredibly difficult to manage and it would be fatal to release. So Dyna, your pessimism puts you in good company. But there were always brave and creative people who stood against the tide of moral decay to help move the community forward to what we enjoy today. Many risked unemployment, physical harm, imprisonment and even death to make America better. We have not simply inherited the fruit of their labor; we have inherited the challenge of their sacrifice. Getting rid of drugs in Jordan is infinitely easier than getting rid of colonialism, the institution of slavery, Jim Crow, the disintegration of the Union or Hitler¹s threat to civilization. It¹s even much easier than getting rid of drug dealing in the south side of Chicago, parts of Gary, Detroit, Baltimore and New York. We are the inheritors of the great American struggle against decay and the creativity that inspired the struggle. And to top it off, we have the good fortune of being challenged by a lite version of the great American urban crisis. This is, in the scheme of things, a little problem. Determined neighbors of good will, coming together, can inspire other neighbors, get the attention of the government and send an effectual message to criminals. In the process they establish new models of engagement for the very kids who would otherwise fall prey to the lure of crime. It¹s a beautiful thing. And all of us ordinary citizens get the privilege of investing some effort into the ongoing American story of transformation. Don¹t give up Dyna, we¹re counting on you. Too much blood has been shed for us, an indulged generation, to crumble in a pathetic heap of disillusionment. Don Samuels ---End Message--- REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Hints for living in the Hood
Great dialogue and a great discussion. And though I do appreciate the Kudos from Dennis, I have to put the reason for the success I've had in Jordan right back on the residents as well as the people who work with us. All of it comes down to team efforts. And while the Hood may be utilized as containment zones they are not hostage zones, the way to change them is by taking a stand and working to make a difference. We had an incident recently where one of the residents in Jordan noticed drug activity at a specific house and passed that along to me along with license plates. I've spoken with Inspections, the 4th Precinct, Probations and even the Hennepin County Attorney's office who's dealt with the problem owner before, and each part of the team is watching and doing their part to make certain if this person even sneezes wrong that they are shut down. Every situation doesn't work like this, but the point is that this started from one resident taking a stand and saying this will not happen here. Jordan, Hawthorne, Phillips and others are not Eagan or Edina, they have a lot of challenges, but they have even more people who make these neighborhoods their home and who make the effort to get involved everyday and make a change. Dennis Plante who fearlessly watches out for activity and calls the cops or walks up to the people himself and tells them that it's unacceptable activity is joined by Dennis Wagner who takes down license plates on his walk and at least once a month writes to the Governor to dramatize the situation in Jordan, who is joined by Dottie Titus, who brings in neighborhood kids and teaches them how to bake cookies, allowing them to take the fruits of their labor home as she logs licenses and descriptions, who is joined by James Kpoto who has one of the most active Block clubs in the city and knows all his neighbors. And in conjunction, we've got great people working in Inspections, Probations, the City Attorney's Office, and the 4th Precinct who are brought together by Council Member Barb Johnson at the Fourth Ward Care Task Force to address problems on all fronts. We've got Don Samuels who lives in the heart of this and confronts the problems on a policy levl in office and on a personal level at home. We've got Reps Mullery and Ellison and Senator Higgins working to address laws that make the legal changes to the process. Every one of these people is part of the team and everyone refuses to stand idly by when they can make a difference. With apologies to Billy Joel, we didn't start the fire, but we're the ones to put it out. Should we have the problems? I think no on many levels. Should we have to put it out? Yes. That's what responsible civic engagement is about. Being involved, taking a stand and doing whatever you can and whatever needs to be done to get the job done. Yes it may seem like an uphill battle, but I and many other people from Jordan and other neighborhoods refuse to be held hostage in our communities, and that's what makes the difference and the change. Change is never easy, but if you really want it, it's possible, you just have to be willing to do what you need to do to make it happen. Jonathan Palmer working in Jordan, living in Victory Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they are yours. ~Richard Bach, Illusions REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Where is the policitcal will?
In the interest of proactive efforts, what do people know about resources and opportunities where people can donate clothing, blankets, supplies, etc. Just about any shelter or program will accept money, however, I have a case where the building that houses my office couldn't get rid of the clothes from their clothing drive and were going to just throw them away and I grabbed them knowing I could find someone who would want to bags full of clothing. Tamir and I have been trying to track down the Free Store which was my favorite source for donations, but to no avail. Checking the websites of Catholic Charities, they seem to only accept money and things of value. Simpson Housing takes a wider variety (http://www.simpsonhousing.org/donationneeds.htm) of things, razors, new clothes, etc., but I'm having a hard time finding someone I can give these two and other used products that are in good condition who is not going to turn around and sell it. So, anyone have some ideas? A favorite place to donate in Mpls? Money is fine, but not everyone has enough to spare, so other resources are good. The most valuable of which is time. We spend a lot of time discussing policy, remember that it's also people's lives and sometimes all it takes is volunteering at a soup kitchen or even dropping a blanket and something warm to drink off with someone you see on the street or sitting down and talking with them. No contribution is too little. We forget that sometimes in our busy lives. So thoughts on resources anyone? Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Higher Ground
MH: Any time the reality of what has happened to those who have few resources but still make the effort to struggle for democracy and fairness is pointed outthose who protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful cry out--- Not Nice, Not Fair. Our last Mayor did resort to the police on more than one occasion and the police and National Guard regarding Hi-Way 55. Our current Mayor also is aligning himself with these same power brokers... so it is a reasonable question to wonder if he will resort to the same tactics when the interests of the rich and powerful are even slightly threatened. And many of our City Council and County Commissioners are doing the same. The indecipherable difference between Democrats and Republicans continues to make me shake my head. (no I am not a Green). I had to keep reminding myself that Mike Opat is a Democrat given his stances. Ostrow stays behind the scenes, but I am convinced he does a huge amount of wheeling and dealing. This city is being sold down the river and the apologists for those who are doing it can only cry out be nice. JP: And anytime those without a plan of action, or goals, or a clearly defined mission find an opportunity to create a soapbox and a name for themselves, they will. And when they cannot handle being questioned and have no specific point other than those people are bad they will try and group anyone who disagrees with them in as apologists and defenders of the status quo. It is a sad sad thing to be so immersed in attack politics and bereft of any sort of actual plan or goal to have to resort to playground namecalling as a means of creating a use for oneself. No Margaret it isn't reasonable to speculate about the Mayor's action in such a leading way, merely because he holds the same title or aligns himself with the same power brokers anymore than it is right for me to speculate about when you will be burning crosses on my lawn. After all, you are White and you have expressed displeasure at my being uppitty and questioning you, and since the Klan is White and approaches most Blacks the same way, only time will tell... No Margaret, speculation of that nature is irresponsible and misleading and keeps people from addressing the real problem. Stand up for the rights of people, but come to this debate with a point and some support. How about the fact that sports teams are multimillion dollar (sometimes billion dollar) enterprises and don't need the money that could be better spent in improving the lives of those most in need? How about the lack of living wage jobs that will be provided, or the fact that most will be filled by people from Edina and Eden Prairie? How about the fact that more important things can be done with the money such as creating more and better housing, targeting low-income and impoverished communities with economic and resource development? How about just some facts? Who's the Mayor aligning himself with, how's he doing this, what evidence do you have besides reading the Lisa saw Lee Sheehy at a basketball game? Do you have anything besides speculation? The City's being sold down the river? How? Got a suggestion on how we can address it? What is it? How about bringing some real ideas to the table instead of fantasy? Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] dangerous precedents for the ruling class
MH: Oh yeah, Don't want to start stereotyping rich folk. And certainly do not want to point out their inherent class privilege. Let's just let them continue to rub elbows both professionally, politically as they socialize to screw over all of us working folks, people in poverty, children living in the streets. The time is now to say, no more to this blatant arrogance. And all these testimonials about how nice they are. Wow, I get all teared up. JP: Here's a wild and crazy idea, how about we try not stereotyping anyone? How about we try taking the high road and debate issues with support and have evidence and data instead of speculation, rumor and innuendo? How about we try questioning those who are our representatives legitimately and demand accountability instead of just making thinks up? You know what now is the time for? Now is the time to set a higher standard. Now is the time to say No More to stretching the political canvas from one mayor to the next or one highway to the next. Now is the time to say No More to just making things up and shouting them loudly in order to make people think you know what you're talking about. Now is the time to say No More to intellectual dishonesty and scare tactics. In a time of heightened fear, spurred by color coded warnings and fictitious alerts, why would you even ask the question of whether the Mayor is going to call out the National Guard for 35W? What is there to gain from such postings? So someone saw someone at a game, why is it immediately they're socialixing to screw over all of us working folks? Got evidence? Or just innuendo? I, like many others, don't agree with public subsidies for a stadium, I really think that owners can pay for that stuff themselves especially considering the lack of living wage jobs, but you know what I'm comfortable and confident with? The fact that I have an opinion based on actual fact. How do you claim moral superiority when you engage in the same tactics as your alleged aggressors? How do you question anyone's position when yours is based on rumor, hearsay and sarcasm? This is a time for serious people, because we have serious issues. It's a time to raise the level and the standard; to debate the actual issue, not who was talking about it. It's time to be about solving the problems in the City rather than just complaining. Talk is cheap, it's time to ante up and kick in, and keep your eyes on the Prize. Take any position you want, but have an idea, a suggestion or a solution. We've got a lot that needs to be done, and it can be accomplished a lot better if people are working to get those things done and not just to get sound bytes in. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Containment of Sexual Predators in Minneapolis Neighborhoods
I don't think it's inappropriate for me, when people are wondering, 'What are you going to do about this?' to sketch out ideas, he told the Associated Press. This is not some rash or Johnny-come-lately position. Sharing what we can do about these events is a legitimate thing for me to do. -Governor Tim Pawlenty on his announcement regarding the Death Penalty If Governor Pawlenty is concerned about repeat offenders in general and specifically sexual offenders, then rather than calling for the death penalty it would be prudent to make changes that will actually impact the community. They could start with updating the resources and procedures at the Department of Corrections, stop using impacted neighborhoods as containment zones and make sure that the public has real awareness of the sexual offenders in their community. Alfonso Rodriguez, Jr., the man suspected in the Dru Sjodin kidnapping, is still listed under the section of Out of State Offenders with the registered address of the Grand Forks County Corrections Center on the State of Minnesota's Department of Corrections Website (http://www.doc.state.mn.us/level3/OffenderDetail.asp?OID=108212). Rodriguez was arrested at his home in Crookston, MN. Definitely not out of the state, and definitely not the Grand Forks Correction Center. How many other offending predators are living on our blocks that neither we, nor the Department of Corrections are aware of? Why are sexual predators being contained in impacted neighborhoods? Based on the 56 Level III Sex Offenders located in Minneapolis (according to the Star Tribune, there are 115 in MN) listed on the DOC's website, only 21 of the 81 neighborhoods in Minneapolis, have offenders as residents. Of those, 30% (or 17) are in the 55411 zip code; 10 of those 17 are in the Jordan neighborhood with seven of them living on one street (6 in a two block stretch). Jordan has a population of around 9100, Minneapolis, approximately 336,000. So, a neighborhood that has about 3% of the population is host to 18% of the Level III offenders. When combined with the Phillips neighborhood on the Southside (approx. 19800 people with 12 sex offenders) you have 8% of the Minneapolis population hosting 40% of the Level III sex offenders. By the way, 50% of the households in the Jordan neighborhood have children. More disturbing is that these statistics underestimate the issue. The DOC's website is not up to date. There are 10 additional offenders living in the Jordan neighborhood, they can be found on the Fourth Ward CARE Task Force's website (http://4thwardcaretaskforce.org/index.cfm). The information on that web site is posted from MPD sex offender meetings held in community. These are only the REGISTERED Level IIIs (most likely to re-offend) and do not take into account the Level I II's or the unranked offenders for which no community notification is required. Of the 14,317 registered offenders in the state of Minnesota, 10% or 1302 are in Minneapolis; 208 or 15% of the Minneapolis designees reside in 55411. Capital punishment is being presented as the solution. The real solution is to address these issues at the core policy level. Offender levels are assessed as inmates are released from prison, therefore after a person has rehabilitated (such as the case with Mr. Rodriguez) they are potentially assessed as a lower threat than they are. If an offender received probation or the work house, they don't go to prison, and therefore are never assigned a level. If an offender resides in a supported living facility, no community notification has to be given because it is assumed the community is aware based on the presence of the facility. If you have a property owner with little regard other than money, you may find two or three offenders living in a house together, watching the children play in the street. The solutions: Limits on the number of offenders concentrated in a neighborhood or other geographic area, especially impacted ones; more resources for the DOC to better track and present information to the community; level assessment at sentencing rather than release; and regulations regarding the proper procedures for absentee and mismanaging landlords who rent to multiple offenders and have little to no screening or follow-up. Address the issue of landlord renting to sex offenders vs. group home, for which a permit is required. Another problem is the possible existence of un-registered group homes. Governor Pawlenty said that he raised the idea of the death penalty because people are fed up and want an aggressive response. I would suggest that he aggressively champion legislation that will bring about sustainable policy change such as what I've mentioned, instead of stop-gap measures that ultimately will not protect our children and community from the next predator we don't even know is among us! Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community
[Mpls] Hmong Cultural Forum in Jordan
This Thursday, January 15th from 6:30pm - 8:30pm there will be a Hmong Cultural Forum sponsored by the North Minneapolis Southeast Asian Initiative and the Jordan Area Community Council. Enjoy traditional Hmong: Food, dancing, martial arts, costumes, music (Hmong flute), storytelling (tapestry) and History of the Hmong. For more information about the forum contact Sue Thao at 612-342-1530 or myself. Location: Unity House, 2507 Fremont Avenue N. Minneapolis. Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] The McManus discussion continued part 2
Mark Anderson: Well it's generally political skills, not management skills that results in promotions. In any case, I'm talking about a higher level of management skills than a even a good mid-level manager has. It's far from an easy task to change the culture of a big city police force, or else any candidate could do it. *snip* Thanks Eva. Most of Jonathan's comments have been very reasonable, but he was overreaching here. Both of our comments are very subjective, because the evidence is so slim. The lack of evidence is my main point. I am concerned about McManus much more because we don't know what could do than that a few cops in Dayton don't like him. Actually, Mark , no. My opinion that he is the best choice for the job, may be subjective but the lack of evidence to support your claim that he has alienated the street cops is pretty empirical. If you wish to make an assertion and for it to have merit, you need to provide some evidence or support and neither of you have yet to be able to do that. Thus, if you re really concerned about this alleged lack of evidence, Id suggest doing a bit of research to convince yourself definitively either way. But making subjective statements as if they were fact with no support is disingenuous in my opinion. And Im not sure what exactly youre looking for in terms of evidence, but I listed a plethora of stats and accomplishments, but you still claim lack of evidence. Yet it seems evidence enough for me, the selection committee and a host of community groups, citizens and elected officials that are supporting McManus. So what exactly and specifically are you looking for in terms of evidence? For a lot of people the evidence is apparent. Some people, however, will never think its enough no matter what and that ends the possibility of discussion or honest examination. So if you have some idea of what youre looking for, put it out in case someone already knows, or research Dayton and DC, if only for your own piece of mind on it. As you talk about management vs. political, it becomes a double-edged sword. As you make statements to the effect of promotions being political, you also eliminate the validity of Gerold and Lubinskis promotions and rank, thus negating arguments from people claiming they are just as qualified and they should be chosen over McManus. And then we're left with only experience, which McManus has more of. As you ask the question of management ability, again, please clarify what youre looking for. You cited your experience in medium and large size companies, and as such you should know that no matter how much a promotion is political, you dont keep it or get to stay with a company if youre not effective or your division is not producing. Its fine to ask for evidence of being an effective manager, but claiming that one isnt because you haven t research evidence or you dont like what is presented to you is speculative and inaccurate. The simple fact of holding a Deputy/Assistant Chief position and then getting recruited for two Chief positions (three if you want to count Seattle) outside of his city (DC and now Dayton) is a pretty good indicator of him being an effective manager. Why would a department want someone who was ineffective? All the stuff I listed says effective to me. That may be subjective and my opinion, but then in that vein most of life is in those regards. But everytime I hear a new story it further reiterates this. Natalie Johnson-Lee saw his effectiveness in DC during the WTO protests. McManus described part of the situation being that a squad showed up minus badges and name tags and he made them go back in a put them on. Management, effective appropriate decision making and follow through by those under his command. And theres plenty more examples like this. So what are you looking for to say that he is or isnt effective? What is your criteria? Minus that you can simply say subjectively its not enough all day and there is no conclusion, but thats not objectively trying to discern if he is or isnt the right person for the job, and thats whats most important right now. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Rybak's and McManus's Management Style: All Flash and No Substance?
I think Lubinski was equal - or better in qualifications to McManus. This is one of the argument's I don't understand, and please post some links or info about this so that I and others can understand. Lubinksi is very qualified and has done a lot, but I don't understand how you and others have gotten to the point of "equal" or "better" in regards to her and I would honestly like to know where it is that she equals or outdistances McManus. She's been in law enforcement since 1978 but that was in Wisconsin and it was the Sheriff's Dept. She joined MPD in 1988. Where as McManus has been an police officer since 1975, working his way up to Assistant Chief in 1998 in DC and becameChief in Dayton in 2001. So McManus has beeninLawEnforcement longer, he's been a police officer longer and he's been an Assistant Chief longer. And he'sthe only one of the twowho's been Chief. I would really like to know how one gets to equal or greater. I also appreciate that she had the courage to be out as a police officer. This is something that you and I agree. In fact, this is one of the areas that Lubinski arguably outdistances other candidates and officers. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to do this, it breaks down barriers and helps to improve relations between MPD and the GLBT community as well as fosters greater acceptance of the GLBT community and diversity as a whole concept both in the MPD and in Minneapolis. It makes her a huge leader and community figure, even hero in my mind. No question at all. What it doesn't do is make her a better police officer, chief candidate, or more qualified to lead the department, and again that's the question on the table. We'll just have to agree to disagree, Jonathan, I still think Laux is a red herring. Sharon Lubinski and John Laux are very different people. They are, but this was my point before about reducing the argument to being internal vs. external. If someone is going to advance the internal vs. external argument, especially if they're saying that an internal candidate is better because they're internal, then you have to consider Laux. I have always said that that argument is in itself a red herring, and the real question is judging the persons on their own merits and skills. And from what I see, McManus is the better candidate.I think Mark's statements are subjective - and yours are too. I don't think he's lying because he interprets articles differently than you do. I don't think he's lying either and didn't say that, but rather that his statements are inaccurate, and I think it's more than just interpreting differently. That's my opinion, but I can't find anything that I think could substantially be interpreted that way. On reevaluation, even Mark said it was slim. It does exist in the realm of possibility, but so does the premise that Saddam Hussein presented a clear and present danger to the US, there's just not a lot of support for either.True. But as I understand it, 7 votes (or maybe 8 according to Channel 5) are needed for confirmation. Which is again why I thinkyou keep missing the points I'm making, which was that McManus had impressed so many people including the Mayor and 6 Council Members, many of which were against a straight White male or an outsider at the start, that they agree thatMcManusis the best. Some of the 7 had made up their minds before even meeting McManus. The bottom line is to be open to exploring all possibilities as well as keeping focussed on the actual question and issue: Can McManus do the job? I say yes. Jonathan Palmer Victory
Re: [Mpls] Rybak's and McManus's Management Style: All Flash and No Substance?
So, Eva, asking questions and ascertaining veracity is now the same as discrediting? You may want to read both my post and Mark's response a bit more closely, especially since Mark responded that the links I posted was pretty much what he had read and that it was admittedly pretty slim. Having read essentially the same pieces, we diverge on two points: Mark thinks the links are enough to make the claim and I disagree also on whether the FOP in Dayton definitively represents the street cops. Given the relationship and reputation of the Federation here, I would argue that they don't but rather the feelings of a small group both on the street and in positions of power. You call it attempted discrediting, I call it validating. It's awfully dangerous just to believe things one hears without asking questions. And I think both you and Mark are forgetting his 26+ year history in DC where he did a lot of work and made a lot of changes when you mention only Dayton in talking about his experience. All flash and no substance? Allow me to illustrate the lack of substance: - Rose in rank in DC from offiver to Deputy Chief - 12 percent drop in violent crime and an 8 percent drop in property crime during the first 18 months he was chief in Dayton. - completely restructured how policing was done in a department that has about 600 officers and civilian employees. - instituted a proactive community policing philosophy. - changed his command staff, hired two high-ranking black officers. - created policies banning racial profiling and police pursuits. - Direct oversight of 1,200 sworn members in DC. - Managed regional operating budget of more than $77 million (DC). - Member of negotiating team for 2001 FOP labor union contract in Washington, D.C. - Played key leadership role in planning and directing successful operations during three days of unrest and mass demonstration during World Bank and Monetary Fund Conference in 2000. - Reduced homicides by 10 percent in Central Region in 1999 using focused law enforcement and problem-solving strategies. - Directed continuing, significant crime reduction in three police districts he commanded. - Conceptualized and directed the Department's Anti-Prostitution Task Force and nearly eliminated the District's entrenched prostitution markets. - Increased morale by elimination double-standard discipline in Dayton. - Serves as Dayton department's liaison to gay and lesbian community. - Implemented staffing changes designed to put more officers on the street during high crime hours in Dayton. - reduced police shootings by 70 percent in 1999 and 2000 through training and policy changes. - credited with raising residents' level of confidence in police and reducing complaints against officers by installing video cameras in squad cars in Dayton. - The No Confidence vote was for putting restrictions on the use of deadly force and police chases, how can you realistically argue against that? So when you say all flash and no substance and that he hadn't stayed in Dayton long enough to follow through on his ambitious reforms, which definition of the words substance and follow through are you using, because it looks to me (and to the selection committee, Mayor, 6 council members and a host of community groups that he is about substance and follow through. Or perhaps this is kind of like Vinzinni's inconceivable from the Princess Bride Jonathan Palmer Victory You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inego Montoya REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Identity Politics
Wizard, you wrote a couple of things I wanted to respond to, so I've clipped them below: I think it's possible that each of those opposed may have a different reason why they are opposed. One possibility is that they want to square off against Rybak. This is kind of the problem, the question before them is: Is William McManus capable and right for the job of Police Chief, will you confirm the nomination made by the Mayor? Nothing else is on the table or should be on the table. Wanting to square off with Rybak is a dereliction of duty and a disservice to the people they are supposed to representing. It's fine that they wanted other people or even other characteristics, but that's not what the question was. The time for debate about whether it should be an internal or external candidate, or whether it should be a straight White male or Lesbian or person of color was well before the nomination. At the beginning of the process or when the national search was going on, that would have been the time to draw lines in the sand and insist it be an internal candidate. But to wait until the top six have been vetted and one person has been nominated and then make arguments about how wrong this is and that it should be another person, is akin to waiting until the bottom of the ninth inning, being down by 12 runs and arguing that that the game shouldn't count because you wanted to play on a different field. Each of the Council Members, regardless of whether they vote yes or no, should be focus only on Can McManus do the job effectively, not if they would prefer if someone else was nominated. Mpls. responded to a threat that was not entirely there. That does not happen on the lieutenant or inspector level. WM: Lubinski has only been a deputy chief a very short time. She has not been in a position to address racial profiling on more than a fairly limited basis, Here's another problem where the recent positions of some Council Members breaks down. The argument cannot be put forth that Lubinski and Gerold are just as qualified and experienced as McManus and then backpedalled on. People have extolled how much both Gerold and Lubinski can be attributed success for their work on community mediation, racial profiling, lowering crime rate, etc. It contradicts that to say then that things don't happen at their level, or they've only been on the job a short while. I've said before, and I still maintain, that both are very qualified and capable officers who if they had been nominated and confirmed would have worked hard and I believe done a good job, but they wouldn't have done the best job. When it all boils down, no matter how much you like one or the other, by my reading, McManus has almost twice the years of experience that Gerold has and both he and Lubinski worked their way up through the ranks. And while Lubinski comes closer in years of experienced, he far outweighs her in years of command experience and responsibility. This isn't about who you like, it's about the bottom line fact of experience. Most of the people pulled over are people of color, which is to be expected here. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Rybak's and McManus's Management Style: All Flash and No Substance?
Discrediting wasn't the right word. Your post was expanding on Mark Anderson's point about Street Cops - while avoiding his point about whether McManus was an effective manager. Well, Eva, what you've done is give me a ticket for littering because you don't like how I drive. More and still, I think you're widely missing the point. Mark was questioning his leadership style and it's effectiveness by making statements that I think were at least inaccurate, but may have had merit, therefore I asked for clarification. If he is questioning the Chief's ability with inaccurate statements, than addressing those statements addresses the core statement. Much has already been said, including by me, about how effective a leader and manager McManus. Regardless, you don't get to pick what I decide to address or discuss. I objected to the way you used G Anderson's column in this case - in my opinion, the the mention of street cops in that column was in a different context than what Mark Anderson referred to in his post. Fine to ibject, but still not your choice what I decide to discuss. It wasn't the same context, but that was the point, because that was the only case that the word alienate even was used in referring to McManus. Mark statements, in my opinion, were inaccurate, he already admitted to reading basically the same things I posted, yet he came to a different conclusion to which I can find nothing to substantiate it. That makes those statements false in my mind, and that was what I was addressing. 6 council members? Well he needs to convince a 7th to get confirmed. Again, not even tangentially related to the actual point. EY: I think it's a bit much to attribute all Lubinski's support on the city council to identity politics. Maybe, maybe not. I don't think it's outside the realm, nor do I even think it's wrong to favor identity politics. Going into this process, I wanted a person of color and was open to another disadvantaged group such as a woman or GLBT community member, and if they could be from the department, so much the better. I don't think there's anything wrong with starting out with those ideas or preferences, but when decision time comes, the bottom line has to be, who is right for the job. Regardless of politics and preferences who makes the best fit. And in this case it's McManus. I also think the whole thing saying that because Lubinski and Gerold are internal candidates, they will be like John Laux is another red herring. No guarantees, but as people are advancing the idea that an internal candidate is better for the job and for bringing about change because their internal and change will best come from the inside (Niziolek advanced this last night, quoting an MIT professor even), than one does have to consider what internal candidates have done. It's not a red herring to hold this up as an example and ask the question. No guarantees, I'll agree, but the question should be examined. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] New Police Chief
I am assuming that this is a letter to the Council Members as it refers to telephone conversations, but, as with much of the conversation centering around the McManus nomination, I think it misses a key point, supporting or not supporting McManus really has nothing to do with Lubinski or Gerold as candidates. This is not a election, it's a nomination; and there is only one nominee, McManus. And support or non-support of his nomination should be based on whether he's the right person for the job, not if you liked someone else. Like many people in this discussion, I too wanted an internal candidate. I have worked with both candidates in the past and even sit on a board with Gerold. I liked them both so much that like many other people supporting them, I didn't bother to look at any of the other candidates. That was until it was put out that McManus was going to be the nominee. It was then that I did what anyone considering and especially voicing support on any of these candidates should do, took a look at McManus. And I've got to say that out of all the candidates, he is the best person for the job. Now what many people don't understand is that saying he's the best does not translate into Lubinski or Gerold not being good candidates or not being qualified. To say that it does is to be disingenous. They are good candidates or else they would not have made it to the final five. And were either of them to get the job, I do believe that they would do a good job and work hard, that does not mean, however, that they would do the best job. There is no way to say this definitively, because neither one has been in that role yet; McManus has. And that's what the job and the appointment is really about, ability and experience. Can you do the job? While I believe Gerold and Lubinski can, I know that McManus will, and that's a subtle distinction that in my mind makes all the difference. It is well and good to hope for things, but pause has to be given for real examination. If you're going to say a reason to support the internal candidates is the work they did on Mediation, then you also have to give equal time to that same 15 years that they were a part of this system that degraded to the point of needing it. If you're going to give credit for severe budget cuts, you have to give more of it to the Mayor, whose budget it is, and who is also making the nomination. If you're going to advance the argument that the appointment of a woman or member of the GLBT community is essential to indicating the City's commitment to diversity and affirmative action, you have to recognize that the previous Mayor was a woman of color and that affirmative action's purpose is to level the playing; compensating historical disenfranchisement and presenting preference when all other things are equal, not to substitute for ability and experience. And in those areas, McManus has more. Most important to remember is that not supporting McManus does not give the job to either internal candidate, the field had been narrowed to two before this, and the other choice was Moose. Gerold and Lubinski could have been the fourth and fifth choice, and if we went through all the candidates to get to one of them, how much confidence would the community have in either knowing they were the last two, or how much confidence would they have in their own job. More to the point, if you're just advancing the I just want one of the internal candidates what does that say about the good experience and the fine unique qualities that each one brings to the job that they are lumped together with their sole defining characteristic being that they're internal or a woman or a lesbian? The bottom line is that we have the nomination of a good person with the capabilities to do the job for Chief of Police. He is the most experienced and qualified and he should be judged on these merits, not on who one liked personally or politically. I've heard a lot of people talk about why they wanted Gerold or Lubinski and how good they would be, but no one giving a legitimate reason why McManus is not qualified or the best person for the job. He deserves that level of fair and unbiased consideration, and so does the City of Minneapolis and its citizenry. . Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Jordan Neighborhood at the epicenter of Northside advancement/ Now...
In a message dated 1/1/2004 11:36:03 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Jonathan Palmer: Executive Director, Jordan Area Community Council Now that the New Year is upon us, can you and I put aside bridge rod issues, for just a little while? I would like to ask you to give me your opinions, and advice, on some issues, developments and quandaries that swirl around, and through our Jordan Neighborhood. JHP: Keith, I'm not certain what you're asking for in your post. You've asked me before to comment on the list about your posts regarding West Broadway which I'm happy to do, but I need clarification as to what you are looking for. You asked me to give my opinions and advice and the presented about a page's worth of items, but no direction that I can discern for the discussion. What kind of advice are you looking for? For example, you listed the redesign of both West Broadway and Lowry. Are you looking for advice on how to do them? Or whether to invest in property along these corridors? Or something else entirely. As for my opinion, I think these are both important projects that will help the Northside continue to develop. In addition, you mentioned 26th Avenue and Keeping up with the Jones. Both are important, but again, I'm uncertain as to what you're looking for. If you can clarify a little more, let me know what you're trying to get at, and I'll see what I can do. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Thank You Mayor Rybak
MH: I have informed the Mayor I will providing this update. The Mayor and I have had dialogue and I have to respect that. So, I will be outside the fundraiser (quietly and without banner) from at least 6p.m. to 10p.m. to let people know the Mayor has responded and I have to give that the acknowledgement and respect it deserves. JP: Margaret, I'm a little unclear about the reason for this. If I remember correctly, you were holding the forum/protest outside of the Kaplans to bring attention to your frustration that, from what you said, he would not comment to you on camera about how he feels about bridge rods. Now you're saying that you've had a dialogue, and you respect that, so now you're going to stand outside of Kaplans to let people know know that the Mayor did respond to you? Keeping with my age old questions, I gotta ask to what purpose and what do you hope to gain? Seeing as it's not a protest anymore, and I would hazard a guess that anybody who was coming to the fundraiser was not really worried about where things stood between you and the Mayor, where is the need to be out there? It's your choice and all, I'm just wondering what it is you're aiming to point out (coming from your plan which was largely about pointing things out), and isn't it a waste of your time if it's not to bring attention to an issue and seemingly to reassure people who probably don't need reassurance? Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] A Forum at the Kaplan's
MH: And, since I am not a person charged with making policy or creating solutions for the City of Mpls, it probably would be more appropriate for people to contact our elected officials to give them a piece of your mind and demands solutions from them. JP: Very interesting point Margaret, I wrote you that I disagreed with it the first time it was made when Jim Graham said it off list to both of us, is this part of your simple 'plan' for pointing things out, regurgitating other people's assertions? And since you put it, I'll reaffirm what I said before, that in a very general sense I believe that dealing with social justice and social issues are everyone's responsibility, we all simply have different priorities and thus focus our efforts on different problems. The passion that you bring to homelessness, someone else may bring to AIDs or domestic violence, each very important, and each worthwhile. But the moment that you call yourself a political activist you become charged with making policy and creating solutions. You have taken on the mantle and thus it is your responsibility. It is not enough to complain that things are not good enough, if you want to elevate yourself beyond complainer to advocate and activist, then you must be willing to create solutions and work towards them. Since you have stated that you refuse to get together and work on solutions (outside of inviting me and now the List to your forum), I am still unclear as to what you are trying to accomplish with these methods. The post that you forwarded from Lydia Howell stated that: The work that Margaret Hastings continues to do is not only morally RIGHT, it's the BEST of what REAL democracy looks like. The most basic decency (in even middle class folks) OUGHT to mean supporting the solutions that exist to end homelessness. And I guess I'm just unclear how you reconcile that with refusing to work with people who offer you resources and support and work that amounts to pointing things out. You don't seem to be supporting solutions, but rather chasing the Mayor to find out his feelings on bridge rods. Isn't the best of democracy listening to all opinions and then working to find common grounds and solutions? Isn't the best of democracy giving as many people as possible a voice and then following the will of the people as best you can? Since you've already stated that you expect a low turn out because of the weather, I'll again offer to get together with you and anyone else serious on homelessness, and I can provide an indoor meeting space that will be warm. I'll even provide coffee. We can discuss the solutions that Jim and I suggested and many more. We could even plan a Summit on Homelessness. Think of it, a couple of days with experts and advocates, bringing together public officials, citizens and leaders to work and develop solutions. Much harder to ignore than one person standing outside a fundraiser asking about someone's feelings on bridge rods, and the potential to create real sustainable solutions. So how about it Margaret? Another solution offered, another opportunity with resources, that you may turn down like the other offers, but it's out there, ready for the taking if you're serious about this. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] A Forum at the Kaplan's
Peter, Thanks for your thoughtful response, although I disagree with you on a few points. That's alright though, as you said, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and it's good to have many opinions represented. Mark already said what I would have to Chris, so I'll respond to your points. First and foremost, I don't see Margaret as holding RT or anyone's feet to the fire, what I do see her doing is making a lot of noise that does not seem to have a purpose. Holding RT or any other official's feet to the fire is not a bad thing, but it's usually something a reasonable person uses as a last resort. You hold someone's feet to the fire when you've tried reasonable courses of action and they refuse to be reasonable, I haven't seen that happen. What I've seen is Margaret jump out and yell at people about how bad or wrong they are like she's done with RT or like she did about Paul Wellstone a few days after he was killed (check the archives for a post about her saying Paul was never a true fighter for justice), and with no real objective to speak of. What less invasive methods has Margaret tried? What efforts has she put forth and what is her goal? You say that she's tried things before, if you could point them out to me it might make this more understandable, but all I've heard is Margaret's anecdotal recounts of what she's done, I haven't seen or heard anything anywhere else. I've heard Margaret's statements of facts but haven't seen any evidence to support it. Take for example you're recounting of anti-camping ordinances. To begin with, we have just Margaret's word that she did all of the things that she says, but even if she did do things in that manner, there is no less invasive part to it. I first heard of Margaret when she decided to make a video and have a camp out to protest the anti-camping ordinance. She was doing this because across the nation they were being used against poor and homeless people according to her. Now, she didn't cite that it was happening in Minneapolis, she didn't cite how it was being used against people, but she did demand that it be repealed and stated that she was holding the protest and filming the documentary, which did, incidently, get her quite noticed. So since you believe as I do that activism begins with the least invasive approach and then is ramped up as necessary, help me understand when Margaret has taken a least invasive approach? I don't see anything prior to her bursting on the scenes and demanding that this ordinance be repealed. And I have yet to see some evidence that it is being used in Minneapolis in the manner in which she says it is. More to the point, I have yet to see what goals or plans Margaret has or what she wants to or has accomplished besides making a name for herself. You say that RT has been silent on the homeless, I say remember the State of the City address in 2002 being held in the newly constructed People Serving People shelter? The fundraiser may be an ideal place to confront the Mayor, but it would be on his promise on campaign fundraising not on homeless because there is no connection. Sure the Mayor and the City and all of us could do better on homeless and other issues, but don't you need to have an idea of what you want to accomplish first and why before you demand that it be done? I agree wholeheartedly with holding someone's feet to the fire (although I disagree that this is the only way to get RT to accomplish things) when they are not following through, but I've yet to see that crucial first step of speaking reasonably to a person and presenting the issue as well as a proposed solution. What I do see is Margaret yelling at the Mayor's office for things like counting shelter beds. Interesting thing about that is that they changed that, once they became aware, according to them. So support the tactics if you think it's the right thing to do, but I think it's missing the reasonable, rational part of less invasive initial steps, which is why I offered to help Margaret with them. She refuses to work with me on them or to even present goals and objectives and for that reason I can't support her tactics or methods. More to the point, I can't find a use for them, and without that, all she is doing is drawing attention, efforts and resources away from actually addressing the real problem. But I like to consider myself a reasonable person (my wife says different at least as far as watching The Daily Show is concerned), so please educate me if I'm missing something. Show me where Margaret's taken these other steps or followed the path that you and I both think is right, and I'll be the first person standing outside that fundraiser decrying the Mayor, otherwise I've got to continue really working on the issues and that includes exposing the truth all through this situation. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules?
Re: [Mpls] A Simple Plan
MH: The Plan (or at least my plan) 1) point out that it continues to be a consistent pattern for Mpls Mayors, and other politicos, to largely ignore the needs of our residents experiencing homelessness. 2) Consistently refute the claims of there not being enough money, r esources, to address the above. Plan of action: Point out the continued drain of money into stadiums (welfare for the rich), ill-conceived development projects (more welfare for the rich). 3) Point out (over and over it seems) that the lack of action on homelessness is not due to lack of a plan. It is due to lack of interest in working with the countless experts who do have plans to address these issues, but are rarely listened to, met with or provided the resources to put their plans into action. 4) Point out our screwed up priorities if the priority is to serve all of our people (thus the term public servants)--- the lack of doing so is not due to lack of resources. Unfortunately, stadiums, et al are the priority. 5) Point out, it ain't about the budget--- back in the boom times a few years ago--- we were still hearing from SSB that there just was not the money to address homlessness. She kept telling us the city needed to invest in ventures that gave back good value for our investments. We all know where that got us. She was saying this to a room full of persons experiencing homelessness and advocates--- I heard it from her first hand. So, even in the boom times, homelessness was ignored. 6) Point out that, as public servants, it is the job of our Mayor and other elected officials to take leadership on issues, even on unpopular issues, in order to try to make change for the better for all of our residents. 7) Point out that the civil rights of our residents are being violated daily due to economic and housing status. and that all across the nation Civil Rights Advocates are working to have this stopped. 8) Refuse to get side tracked into false issues i.e. -- these people yell and scream but they have no plan. That is a false issue used often by politicians and there supporters. Pretty much along the lines of the false issue that We have no money. RT Rybak asked me for concrete examples and information on what other cities have done to address the criminalization of homelessness. I have sent him via registered mail the Law Center on Poverty and Homelessness publication addressing this issue. I know he got it, but never a response. Never acknowledgement that he and/or a staff person read it. Just as those who want a stadium would expect the Mayor to go to the experts on stadium building--- I would say to the Mayor--- go to experts on addressing the end of homelessness. So, I have a very simple plan--- to point out the above over and over and over. And to point out that I find it sad and a repetition of our previoius mayors that RT Rybak will not answer a simple question: How does he feel about the Bridge Rods? JP: Thanks for finally putting that out here. I especially like #8 which would I'm sure you'd like to justify your not having answered the question, which you still have not really done. I see what part of the problem is, and that's that the majority of your plan is pointing things out to other people and then telling them to fix it. And then when they don't do things your way, screaming that they don't care about the issue and refuse to look at it. More to the point, your plan lacks support and substance, which I'll illustrate below, but I've also got some ideas and specifics that we can advance if you are really interested in solving the problem, and as I stated before, Im am willing to help you develop the plan and work to implement it. As for your plan though: 1) What's the pattern? You've talked about RT and SSB, 2 doesn't a pattern make. In addition, I know that RT his office has made efforts to address the needs, perhaps not enough but eliminating the counting of shelter beds and coming to your rallies such as the camping one last year certainly refute the assertion of ignore. 2)There isn't enough money for anything actually, and so there is a juggling for resources and it really depends on the priorities that are set. I don't think we should be spending money on a new stadium, but I do have to acknowledge that it will generate revenue. It is not that there are no priorities, just that there are different ones. But expecting that any city is going to take all the money in sports areas and put it into social issues is unrealistic. However, you can make people uncomfortable by showing them how little it would cost to help people vs. sports. For example, we could see how much it would cost to build supportive or supported living facilities in, I don't know, Eagan and help stabilize the homeless population and provide support. But we need specifics (the costs involved) instead of just pointing it out. I'm willing to help you
Re: [Mpls] wanting the plan
MH: I would encourage those who have stated they really want to work on ending homelessness to join me at the Kaplan's and also at the Mayor's next open house. If you do not care for my style of addressing the social injustice of homelessness, I would encourage you to contact the Minesota Coalition for the Homeless or the National Coalition for the Homeless as they also have a course of action that you may wish to join with. The Coalitions should have information on the Bringing America Home Act which needs support from all of us to get it accomplished. They also have information on many other ways to address this issue. There is also the Poverty Law Center web site that talks of their work to address the violation of people's civil rights based on their economic and housing status. If you are more into social service action-- please contact St. Stephen's, Our Saviors, Simpson Shelters who will tell you how you can help or volunteer, or they will give you names of the other shelters in the area. Or you can go to Housing Day on the Hill at the Capital (I believe it is in February), and lobby the legislature. Or you can educate yourself on the multiple ways in which resources and social acitivism to eliminate homelessness are already out there, but need the funding and political support of our leaders to accomplish. In the case of those who say they want to help, but need a plan--- I have given you resources to educate yourselves and resources that offer multiple plans for you to engage in and contribute to. For myself, I am a political activist who believes that this issue remains way to ignored and invisible and politicians (such as our Mayor) need to have it put in front of them. JP: Okay so it sounds as if you don't actually have a plan or goals beyond hounding the Mayor to comment on his personal feelings on matters like bridge rods which aren't under his jurisdiction. I'm not certain how this does anything to address the homelessness issue, but I notice it does give you a lot of attention. It's not that I don't care for your style of addressing the social injustice of homelessness, it's that it doesn't appear as if your style has anything to do with addressing any social injustice, and more to do with using homelessness as a soapbox. I could be wrong, but then again, we'll never know because if you actually have an agenda or specific goals you refuse to put them out. If you have them. It is hypocritical to decry any person for being inaccessible or avoiding the issue when you do the same thing. More so, it is misleading as well as hypocritical to call yourself a a political activist who believes that this issue remains way to ignored and invisible and politicians (such as our Mayor) need to have it put in front of them. when you only seem to target one politician and again don't have a plan of action or ideas about how to get the job done. Ultimately, it takes not only focus away from the core issue (homelessness), and turns people off and away from helping out. And that's the reason I'm asking these questions and have offered help and suggestions, because this is a serious issue that is more important than you getting an interview, and it can't be addressed by spouting a laundry list of organizations that work on issues and saying go talk to them. You're encouraging those who have stated they really want to work on ending homelessness to join you at the Kaplans but you refuse to say why and to what end. Going with the best case scenario again, everyone going to the Kaplans (the Mayor included) stops and says Margaret, we agree that this is an important issue, we're not going to go to the fundraiser, what can we do? The problem is that leaves you standing there with nothing to do or say because you don't have an agenda or action steps. Everyone then walks away less inclined to help because the political activist who works on this issue doesn't have a plan, so how are they to envision it as something to work on? Again, I'll ask what you hope to accomplish. What purpose is served by standing out there. Even if RT does speak to you, what does that get you? What does it get the homeless? I think that they're more concerned with eating and a place to sleep over your getting the shot. If you can't answer questions like this, if you don't have clear goals and plans, then every time you stand on a soapbox or shout about the problem not being address, it decreases the effectiveness of the other organizations and lowers the public interest in addressing the issue. People become desensitized, and it makes it that much harder to develop and implement solutions. So I'm unclear why, since you claim and I'll even say seem to care about this issue passionately, you would not only be willing to present an agenda, action steps or even insight beyond do what I'm telling you to because this is the way
Re: [Mpls] Rybak's Choice/The Right Person for the Job
In a message dated 12/21/2003 11:20:59 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: WM: But in the end, we still got another straight, white male. Ho and then hum. I'm not impressed. This guy does not necessarily ever think outside his privilege. There appears to be no reason for him to do so, since his privilege has stood him in good stead, advanced his career, etc. No matter how you slice it, we're getting a pig in a poke (no disrespect to officers intended). We have no idea whether he will prove out, whether he will move in a year or two. We know virtually nothing about him JP: I have to disagree with you Wizard, he thinks outside of his privilege already, if for no other reason than his family. First, though, your second line is really unfair in that none of the candidates necessarily think outside their privilege, but there are certain matters in which each one has demonstrated their thinking outside their privilege, and McManus is no exception. If you want to learn about him as I did, a quick search on Google will find you some of the following: http://www.ci.dayton.oh.us/police/policechiefbio.asp http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/districts/1st/mcmanus.shtm http://www.ci.dayton.oh.us/news/news_data/policereorganization.asp Allow me to highlight a few key lines showing how he thinks outside his privilege: *Dayton Police Chief William McManus today announced organizational changes that will streamline the Police Department structure and create the opportunity for more minorities to be added to the command staff * Serves as department's liaison to gay and lesbian community. (This is from the Dayton bio) * Increased morale by elimination double-standard discipline. And that's just five minutes worth of work, anybody really interested in finding out about McManus will not have a problem. More to the point, he has an interracial marriage and family. As a member of both of these myself, I can tell you that you cannot seriously be a part of either and not think outside your privilege. McManus has gone over and above the call of duty and regardless of who you wanted or liked, that kind of committment deserves and demands ones respect. A lot of people wanted other people. I wanted an internal candidate and specifically liked both Sharon and Lucy, but they're not the option presented and honestly evaluating McManus calls for one to look at what is necessary to fill the role, and whether or not he has what it takes, not whether or not he's your favorite. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of people are doing and coming up with ghost fears like we don't know anything about him and he might leave soon. Well I've already shown that you can find something in five minutes on the internet and as for mights, MN might get hit by a tornado tomorrow, highly unlikely but it might happen. Doesn't mean you should stay indoors. After listening to the man, talking with him and his wife, doing a little research and talking with the committee, I think he is the right person for the job, and I would encourage anyone serious about this to take a good hard look at him...through eyes unclouded by preference. I think what you see will make a world of difference. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] At the Kaplan's (or as close as I can get) and the Mayor's open ho...
MH: Although I still plan to be at the Kaplan's for RT's fundraiser (attempting to balance on the few inches of public land I can to keep me legal), I have decided to give it a go again at the Mayor's open house that Erik his aide referred to. So, for those who would like to find out how my effort to get an answer from the Mayor about bridge rods at his next open house, here is the time, date and place: The next open house will be on January 28, 2004 from 12 - 1 here in City Hall, 350 S. Fifth Street, Room 333; (per Erik). I will not have a camera or microphone. Just am a concerned citizen who would like a response. JP: At any of these times will you have an agenda and goals written or in some other presentable form, because I also am a concerned citizen who would like a response. I've tried several times to find out exactly what is your goal Margaret or what it is that you would like to accomplish specifically and how you propose to have it done, yet no response has been forthcoming. I think it's rather hypocritical to criticize the Mayor and his staff for not responding and yet to do the same yourself. I've asked you numerous times for what it is you want and how it should be accomplished (even offering to help develop these goals and implement them) and you have yet to provide an answers. How are we going to seriously address the issue of homelessness if one of the most outspoken advocate does not seem to have an agenda and refuses any attempts to help develop one? You've stated that you wanted the Mayor or Erik Takeshita to do an interview about the bridge rods and wanted a response, and when Erik responded apparently turning you down by saying that they were MNDoT's purview, you titled your post No response yet from Erik or the Mayor on the Bridge Rods and then said you wanted them to talk about their feelings about the rodsWhy? Best case scenario is that RT tells you that he feels it's the most terrible thing to do, still doesn't change what MNDoT does, and you've then advanced the cause no further. I'm more concerned about Hennepin and Ramsey County busing homeless people one-way out of state, and the fact that the $370K spent over the last four years on this could have been put to better use in funding shelters and helping homeless people find stable homes and employment. (http://www.startribune.com/stories/468/4282983.html) Why aren't you working on this instead of chasing the Mayor about his feelings on bridge rods or on any of the other suggestions I offered in the last posting. I'm still here Margaret, still wanting to help and still hoping to develop serious goals and a clear agenda for accomplishment. When are you going to practice what you preach (or rather criticize others for) and respond? Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] The Mayor and Bridge Rods
I have made it clear that I would be just as happy with a post to the forum just as much as a filmed interview with the Mayor. I do think this question deserves an answer. What also deserves an answer is what exactly do you want Margaret and what is your agenda? I posed the the question on list a couple of weeks ago, and only Peter Schmitz took even a stab at it on list. Although, it was a bit general in my opinion (not that that's a bad start), but no one's really addressed Mark Snyder's response to it. While you did respond offlist, it amounted to I've said it all before and won't repeat it and anyone who cares will know. This is a real serious issue, and it needs a serious response, but all you seem to write about is how inaccessible the Mayor is or how much he doesn't care because he won't do what you want. So since you won't put out some clear goals and objectives and only respond offlist to questions does that mean you're inaccessible? Jim Graham shared a great idea about getting Fort Snelling converted into a shelter, what have you been doing about this? How many neighborhoods have you contacted regarding devoting some of their NRP funds toward establishing or supporting local shelters? Which community land trust are you working with? How many grants have you written to get funding for these or other ideas? Wouldn't any of these be more germane to addressing the issues of homelessness than scouting out the Kaplans? For someone who is so passionate about homelessness, why are you spending more time attacking the Mayor than working on the issues? It's already been made clear that he can't solve the problem, and that the small scope of things he can do, he does (such as the ending of the practice of counting shelter beds as affordable housing, yet I seem to recall nothing but beratement from you. How about putting out a serious, concise agenda with clearly defined goals and action steps so that we can get people on board and really move ahead on this? I'd be happy to help if you need it. But let's do more than shout and shame, that's great for sensationalism and the press, but doesn't really do anything for the homeless population. So what do you say? Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Addressing the Homelessness Issue
Margaret, I read your posts on the subject of homelessness over the last year with great interest and I think it is an important issue. While this may sound coy, it is meant as a serious question, and that is what do you want to be done? Granted that if it was possible, we'd want everyone not to be homeless, but barring that, do you have an agenda of things you'd like to see accomplished? And how it can be financed?(e.g. a list of the top 5 things that you'd like or some short term goals and long term goals) I'm asking because it's very clear that you're passionate about this issue, and it's very clear that it's an important issue, and while I understand that you're holding protests to bring attention to things that need to be done, I'm not sure what those things are. Nor how, in the budget crisis that we have, we should find funding for it (i.e. are there creative ways of doing this, are there things that should be dropped from the City's budget?) And maybe I'm the only one, but if not, putting out a concise and specific agenda or list would probably get you a lot more support from people such as myself who think that homelessness is an important issue, but don't know what activists with experience in the area such as yourself want to see done. So is it something you can put out or refer people to see online so we have a better understanding? Jonathan Palmer Victory This post sent to you in brand spankin' new AOL 9.0 Compose-As-Plain-Text-o-Vision REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Packing Sex offenders in Mpls/ The wrong question?
While this is an interesting read, it is unfortunately not a policy position or comprehensive. Interestingly enough, it says that Sex Offenders are free to live wherever they want, but that moving outside of the jurisdiction of conviction can be turned down, which seems a bit contradictory. But we're starting to get to the problem...almost. We say, this is America, land of the free, people should and can live where they want, do what they want, etc. However, you are limited by your circumstances. If you come out of prison without any money, you're sent to a Halfway House. There's only two the DOC uses, Damascus Way Reentry Center Inc. at 5730 Olson Memorial Highway and 180 Degrees at 236 Clifton Place. While at either of these, they are encouraged to get a job and find a place to live. They will not stray far at this point and finding a job in a neighborhood is a good reason to stay. Another good reason is a landlord that will rent to 5 or 6 of your buddies who did the same thing. Slumlords like this usually are absentee and have little regard for the neighborhood or people around, they care about the dollar. While it's not illegal, I believe it is something that should be, primarily because it presents the possibility of a clear and present danger and secondarily because they are usually shunted off into the more challenged neighborhoods that are already dealing with enough. These houses are essentially unlicensed halfway houses, the landlords get the money and the neighborhood gets the problems. To be more clear, if we're going to be fair or focus on the problem properly, we should be distributing offenders like this around the city and not concentrating them, thereby increasing the likelihood of an assault. The problem is the numbers don't do the picture justice. I've listed the numbers below, but these are just the level 3s that are known and not in supportive housing, those don't have to do notification because it is taken as a given. Who has the most supportive housing facilities? The same neighborhoods that are given the other offenders. Even if it's not against the law, it is a moral imperative to be more responsible in property ownership and rental as well as policy. By the way, MN is home to the only residential treatment facility for sex offenders in the US, and for that reason we get them from other states as well. Alpha Human Services is located at 2712 Fremont Avenue S in the Lowry Hill East. I attempted to find out how many beds they had, but the neither of the two people I spoke with (one a doctor apparently) would give me that information, and instead referred me to a third person who was not available, because these are crazy times. You got that right. Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council Working next to 20 Level 3s and surrounded by an additional 188 register sex offenders. Numbers: Audubon Park-1 Camden-3 Cedar Riverside-1 Central-3 Cleveland-1 Corcoran-1 Elliott Park-4 Folwell-1 Hawthorne-1 Jordan-10 Kingfield-1 Logan Park-2 Longfellow-2 Lyndale-2 Near North-1 Phillips-12 Powderhorn Park-1 Victory-1 Waite Park-1 Whittier-2 Willard-Hay-3 Email me off list for the addresses, and remember these are just Level 3s that are registered and being tracked by the DOC REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Containment of Sexual Predators in Impacted Neighborhoods
I don't think it's inappropriate for me, when people are wondering, 'What are you going to do about this?' to sketch out ideas, he told the Associated Press. This is not some rash or Johnny-come-lately position. Sharing what we can do about these events is a legitimate thing for me to do. -Governor Tim Pawlenty on his announcement regarding the Death Penalty If Governor Pawlenty is concerned about repeat offenders in general and specifically sexual offenders, then rather than calling for the death penalty it would be prudent to make changes that will actually impact the community. They could start with updating the resources and procedures at the Department of Corrections, stop using impacted neighborhoods as containment zones and make sure that the public has real awareness of the sexual offenders in their community. Why are sexual predators being contained in impacted neighborhoods? Based on the 56 Level III Sex Offenders located in Minneapolis (according to the Star Tribune, there are 115 in MN) listed on the DOC's website, only 21 of the 81 neighborhoods in Minneapolis, have offenders as residents. Of those, 30% (or 17) are in the 55411 zip code; 10 of those 17 are in the Jordan neighborhood with seven of them living on one street (6 in a two block stretch). Jordan has a population of around 9100, Minneapolis, approximately 336,000. So, a neighborhood that has about 3% of the population is host to 18% of the Level III offenders. When combined with the Phillips neighborhood on the Southside (approx. 19800 people with 12 sex offenders) you have 8% of the Minneapolis population hosting 40% of the Level III sex offenders. By the way, 50% of the households in the Jordan neighborhood have children and there are 4 elementary schools here. More disturbing is that these statistics underestimate the issue. The DOC's website is not up to date. Alfonso Rodriguez, Jr., the man suspected in the Dru Sjodin kidnapping, is listed under the section of Out of State Offenders with the registered address of the Grand Forks County Corrections Center on the State of Minnesota's Department of Corrections Website (http://www.doc.state.mn.us/level3/OffenderDetail.asp?OID=108212). Rodriguez was arrested a week ago at his home in Crookston, MN. Already his information is updated. However, there are at least 10 additional offenders living in the Jordan neighborhood not listed on the DOC's site. They can be found on the Fourth Ward CARE Task Force's website (http://4thwardcaretaskforce.org/index.cfm). The information on that web site is posted from MPD sex offender meetings held in community. These are only the REGISTERED Level IIIs (most likely to re-offend) and do not take into account the Level I II's or the unranked offenders for which no community notification is required. Of the 14,317 registered offenders in the state of Minnesota, 10% or 1302 are in Minneapolis; 208 or 15% of the Minneapolis designees reside in 55411. How many other offending predators are living on our blocks that neither we, nor the Department of Corrections are aware of? Capital punishment is being presented as the solution. The real solution is to address these issues at the core policy level. Offender levels are assessed as inmates are released from prison, therefore after a person has rehabilitated (such as the case with Mr. Rodriguez) they are potentially assessed as a lower threat than they are. If an offender received probation or the work house, they don't go to prison, and therefore are never assigned a level. If an offender resides in a supported living facility, no community notification has to be given because it is assumed the community is aware based on the presence of the facility. If you have a property owner with little regard other than money, you may find two or three offenders living in a house together, watching the children play in the street. The solutions: Limits on the number of offenders concentrated in a neighborhood or other geographic area, especially impacted ones; more resources for the DOC to better track and present information to the community; level assessment at sentencing rather than release; and regulations regarding the proper procedures for absentee and mismanaging landlords who rent to multiple offenders and have little to no screening or follow-up. Address the issue of landlord renting to sex offenders vs. group home, for which a permit is required. Another problem is the possible existence of un-registered group homes. Governor Pawlenty said that he raised the idea of the death penalty because people are fed up and want an aggressive response. I would suggest that he aggressively champion legislation that will bring about sustainable policy change such as what I've mentioned, instead of stop-gap measures that ultimately will not protect our children and community from the next predator we don't even know is among us! Jonathan Palmer
Re: [Mpls] Kahn suit - a plaintiff comments
In the interest of openness, I will mention that I am a plaintiff in the Kahn suit. I joined this suit because I believethat a 3+year gap between adoption of the new ward boundaries and elections congruent with those boundaries undermined the intention of timely adoption and implementation of the Y2000 census redistricting. In addition I am a resident of the new 8th ward which lives under the cloud of representative ambiguity given that 8thW Councilperson Lilligren had been redistricted out of the 8th (through no fault of his own) and it is unclear at best how residents of the noveau 8th W could hold him accountable for his council work and its impact on the noveau 8th. Ann, thank you for at least being willing to chime in and voice your reasons for joining the suit and why you think it is the right thing. While I disagree with you, I respect that you at least showed up and said your position. In the subject of that disagreement, though, I would first refer you back to Subdivision 1 of Minnesota Statute 205.84, of which your legal team is using Subdivision 2 to now plead your case. Subd. 1 states that a change in ward boundaries does not disqualify a Council Member from serving the remainder of the term. As this is the current law, attempting to force early elections is attempting to break the law. This is what was envisioned when the law was proposed, and you may have stood against it then, but that was the best time to say it was wrong. The really ethical thing to do would be to somehow lobby to change the law through an elected official. If only there was someone in the House who could propose such a thing Kidding aside though, your second point is what has me a little confused. You state that you're unsure how the residents of the noveau 8th Ward can hold Robert accountable. Since Robert is in the new 6th, the premise of holding him accountable by way of election has no merit because whether elections are tomorrow or in 2005, he still would not be running in the 8th (unless he moves back). However, I disagree with this point of voting being the only way to hold him accountable, residents have many more tools available to them including, as we saw in CA, recall elections and even lawsuits like the one you're doing now. There are plenty of ways of holding elected officials accountable, to plead that you can't because of elections seems disingenuous to me. Further, there's plenty you can do to influence his election elsewhere too. Again, I have to refer back to the illogic of saying that someone can't serve a ward or district because they don't live there. If an official is limited in this capacity, they shouldn't be in office. If you insist on this, then one has to question the ability of elected officials to be able to represent the wards that are part of their districts that they don't live in or to represent new parts of their district added after Redistricting. One day they wake up and they have a new section of geography added. If an official cannot represent an area they don't live in, why would another care about a chunk of land they have no relation to being added. That just doesn't hold water. A good elected official will focus on the needs of their ward or district and will talk and work with the residents of such to best represent their needs. Finally, to all those calling this a DFL conspiracy I would hope that you remember that I am a DFL member and there are many others that voice opposition from within our ranks, as well as the fact that the heat kicked up against Don Samuels, another DFLer, as he ran his race. This isn't about trying to crush the Greens as much as I think this is about people being mad that the status quo change. It has more to do for some of the plaintiffs about seats lost by comrades not by parties in my opinion. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elections
When the holidays come around, I tend to get a little sentimental; look back over the year and think about forgiveness and changes for the new year. In a moment of this this past weekend, I was honestly thinking, Maybe I've been too hard on Phyllis this last year. Maybe I can invite her to lunch, sit down and we can talk about this and try and see each other's points, and maybe even figure out something that both of us would think was fair And then I read something like this: http://www.swjournal.com/display/inn_news/news04.txt and it sets me back on the right path. In a seemingly unprecendented display of dizzying logic that would have forced MC Escher, to get up and excuse himself from the room until things settled down a bit, Kahn Co have launched their latest offensive against the City of Minneapolis voters and officials, this time threatening the Elected's salaries if don't submit. This latest attempt at coercing the Council and Mayor to force early elections has as its basis Minnesota Statutes 205.84, subdivision 2, which in summation says that if the City fails to confirm the existing ward or the new ones in the proper time, they shall not be paid. Leaving aside for a minute that there's a lawsuit on the table that prevents a full confirmation until it is settled, that the City voted on the adoption of the map, and that Kahn's intrepretation of what the statute means is skewed; I find it fascinating that the legal team either or omitted or neglected to notice the subdivision right above, Subdivision 1: Subdivision 1.General provisions. In a city electing council members by wards, wards shall be as equal in population as practicable and each ward shall be composed of compact, contiguous territory. Each council member shall be a resident of the ward for which elected, but a change in ward boundaries does not disqualify a council member from serving for the remainder of a term. And there it is, in black and white. In the very statutes that our House members are the custodians of, it refutes Phyllis' claim on the need for or the unlawfulness of not holding early actions. In fact, it would seem that an attempt to force them is, in actuality, an attempt to circumvent the very laws that Phyllis is one of the guardians of...talk about things that make you go hn. We've had the conversation about whether intentions matter or not, but if you're not going to question Kahn Co.'s reasons for doing this, one needs to question the logic in doing it at all. Jonathan Palmer Victory Article follows: Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elections By Scott Russell Minneapolis DFL State Rep. Phyllis Kahn has found the ultimate in political payback: she says if Mayor R.T. Rybak and City Councilmembers don't hold city elections ahead of schedule in November 2005, they must repay a year and a half of their salaries. It's the latest -- and most personal -- twist in an elections lawsuit against the city of Minneapolis. Kahn and a group including Southwest residents Mark Kaplan and Ann Berget say current wards, based on the 1990 Census, have grown so unequal in population that they subvert the Constitution's one-person, one-vote principle. City leaders counter that the legislative prohibitions kept them from reapportioning for the 2001 elections, and four-year terms granted that year shouldn't be shortened. During a recent court hearing, Kahn said her legal team pulled out Minnesota Statutes 205.84, subdivision 2. The law says if the city's governing body fails to confirm old ward boundaries or adopt new ones in the time required, no further compensation shall be paid to the mayor or Councilmember If the argument prevails in court, it will take a mighty bite out of Councilmembers' wallets. Based on 18 months since the May 2002 reapportionment deadline, Rybak would have to pony up about $130,000; each Councilmember about $100,000. All told, city leaders would fork over $1.4 million -- far more than the $400,000 city election officials have said an extra, early election would cost. It is a wonderful statute; it is just incredible, Kahn said. It says if the city doesn't adopt the redistricting plan, that they have to serve without pay. Kent Kaiser, communications director for the Minnesota Secretary of State's office, said the issue hinges on whether the court says the city's vote to adopt the new map -- which the Minneapolis City Council took within 60 days after legislative redistricting -- meets the legal requirement, or whether it actually has to hold an election and implement the new wards. Said Kahn: We are saying 'adopt' means 'adopt and implement.' James Moore, the assistant city attorney handling the case, said he could not comment on pending litigation. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed
[Mpls] Jordan Residents and Council Member Don Samuels to Picket Slumlord's Home
For Immediate Release Friday, November 21, 2003, Minneapolis, MNThe Jordan Area Community Council (JACC) along with Minneapolis Third Ward City Council Member Don Samuels announced today that they will be picketing the private home of a Jordan neighborhood landlord, Mr. Gregge Johnson of Elk River, Minnesota. Mr. Johnson owns and rents more than 30 properties in Minneapolis and has been repeatedly negligent in proper management of at least those in the Jordan neighborhood. Jordan residents have had enough. JACC members stated that Mr. Johnsons continued neglect of his properties, and complete disregard for the behavior of his tenants has had a significant negative impact on quality of life for residents in Jordan. Todays announcement came as a result of growing frustration among residents over absentee landlords who hope to take advantage of the increasing property values in North Minneapolis, but slow community improvement efforts by failing to screen tenants, provide even the most basic of property supervision or upkeep their properties. JACC plans to make a strong statement on Saturday that this kind of property ownership will not be tolerated in Jordan. What: Minneapolis City Council Member Don Samuels, and the Jordan Area Community Council will picket the home of Mr. Gregge Johnson, of Elk River, Minnesota. When: Saturday, November 22nd 10:30am to 11:30 am Where: 11800 Highland Rd Elk River, Minnesota 55330 The Jordan Area Community Council, also known as JACC, is the non-profit citizen participation organization for the Jordan neighborhood. It uses a grassroots community organizing and civic engagement model to fulfill its mission: To organize people, knowledge and capital for the collective empowerment of Jordan Residents. Contact: Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council 612-529-9267 ### REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] CP: Sayles Belton on Rybak, Schimke on KARE-11
Dress up and make believe are fun during playtime, unfortunately, I expect a little
more from journalists in quality publications like City Pages, but maybe Britt Robson
has spoiled me.
Much like President Bush's aircraft landing, G.R. Anderson's latest articles seem to
lack the substance and at very least factual basis that I've come to expect from City
Pages.
In his next in series of attacks on RT Rybak, Anderson supports his unfounded
accusation that RT did not campaign in the Black community by having former Mayor
Sharon Sayles-Belton respond to me via the article to refute my claim that RT did
reach out because I saw him doorknocking in and around neighborhoods.
So what if you did? Sayles Belton counters. That doesn't mean he reached out to the
black community.
She's right, that doesn't mean he reached out. The problem is, that's not what I
said.
In response to Anderson's assertion the RT never went after the black vote. I stated
that I knew that Rybak door-knocked the neighborhoods in north Minneapolis as well as
some south side ones, and that he was also in the Juneteenth parade and on KMOJ radio
[several times]. And he talked repeatedly about the need for more diversity on the
MPD. As a candidate for office myself, I saw Rybak in many of the same campaign areas
and meeting places such as Lucille's and the Urban League and at the candidate forums
across the City, not just the one's in the White areas. What Anderson and
Sayles-Belton are not honest about is that there were a lot of people in the Black
Community (not all obviously), even some leadership and forum hosts, who were openly
hostile to RT. Not because of his policies or his campaigning but because he was a
White man running against a Black woman incumbent. It was an uphill and in some cases
hopeless endeavor, but he did not quit.
In addition, because I had the audacity to disagree with his recount of the
Hawthorne meeting, Anderson accuses me of not seeing the news and information value
of addressing the race problem, In actuality, what I don't see is any value at all in
writing sensationalistic articles in order to appear cutting edge. When Anderson is
actually looking to work on the race problem, he can join me at the African American
Men Project Commission, the NAACP, the DFL Affirmative Action Commission, Morehouse
College's National Alumni Association, UNCF or any of the multitude of organizations
and programs that I work with daily or am a part of that do more with actual substance
than merely write fiction.
Perhaps my standards are a little too high, but I expect a public persona, especially
a journalist--the person we count on for facts and information, to at least be
truthful and honest in their reporting. I don't care that Anderson disagrees with me,
or that he critique's RT. We need people to question our leaders and public officials
and hold them accountable. I have some big issues with some of the lack of follow
through and shortcomings RT's had myself or even where his efforts have failed to go,
but I believe in being honest in my approach and asking the hard questions truthfully
instead of resorting to misleading and misinformation. Make believe is fun, but this
is a time for serious people and serious journalists who are going to be voices of
integrity that the public can trust and rely upon.
Jonathan Palmer
4100 Sheridan Avenue N
Minneapolis MN 55412
612-529-2502
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Re: [Mpls] CP: Sayles Belton on Rybak, Schimke on KARE-11
Oops. It's been a long day. The signature should have said Victory instead of my address (I also sent this into the CP, but doubt it'll see publication). Sorry for the error people. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: MPD: Minnesota Minority Test Scores
Andy Driscoll wrote: Jason is absolutely right. Black is the absence of color - white is presence of all combined colors. WM: This conundrum always makes me laugh at the ultimate stupidities we humans use to get ourselves tangled. Caucasian denial is based in denial that white is the presence of all combined colors. JP: Okay, I'm a little scared that in a discussion on education and test scores, so many people are so resolute in something so wrong. In the color spectrum, white is the absence of color, black is the absence of light. Black is therein considered the presence of all colors as it absorbs light (while white reflects it) and in order for their to be a distinction between colors their has to be a reflection of light. In biological terms, the variations in skin tones have come from the variations in melanin levels with darker skinned or Black persons having the highest concentration. Ergo, all colors or races are derived from Black or the darker skin tones. Look it up at www.merriamwebster.com if you want proof of the meanings. And email me offlist for more exciting anthropological fun facts and sources. I, like many people, recognize race as a sociological construct invented for division and oppression. And while we are moving to a place that people can look beyond skin color and not draw the distinction of race or place such emphasis on it, we are not there yet; and to do so now runs the risk of ignoring the sociological, psychological, and economical effects of the creation of this division. It is not as simple as saying, well we're all equal now, let's not quibble over race anymore. There's still too much work to be done to place us on equal footing as well as to establish accountability for the repercussions of the past. We're no longer at a place that everything is because of race (and people should not get hung up on that), but we're also not at a place that we can afford to be colorblind either. Jonathan Palmer as Mr. Wizard Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] City Council districts
Mark Anderson input: Great post David. The rebuttals to your posting basically say Her motivation does so matter! They seem to think the motivation is important in itself -- they don't really care about the underlying issue of whether it's more fair to have an earlier election or leave it be. To them, that Phyllis Kahn may be doing this for partisan reasons is more important than whether it's good for the city. If all you care about is if your side wins, and not how you get there, then they are correct, whether her method is better for the public is irrelevant. The Greens try to portray themselves as more ethical in than everybody else; in this case at least we see them as crass as the rest. Actually, if that's all you got from these posts over the past week, I'd suggest reading them again Mark. I believe that the end result is important, but I do not believe that the ends always justify the means, which is essentially what one is saying when they say motivations don't matter. If you stick to the letter of the law, it allows no room for compassion, for extenuating circumstances, for mercy. Motivations make a difference. And if you stick with the letter of the law, this cycle is what is established and should not try to be forced to change without a mandate for the citizenry. And for the record I'm DFL not Green. It's already been established that most people don't think it's good for the city. The Council doesn't want it, when it's come up twice in the legislature, none of the Minneapolis Representatives supported it and I believe that no one from her own party supported it, and I've yet to hear a groundswell of support for it. For many of us, the issue of it being bad for the City is already clear. And again, it's not that the cycle should not be changed, but just this attempt to force early elections is not right. The question then arises that if Phyllis keeps pushing it after it's failed twice, the majority of Minneapolitans (especially those elected) don't support it, the voters voted to have it established in this manner knowing the considerations, and the additional costs in a budget crisis like we have, why does she do it? It's not a simple case of questioning her motives, it's that the majority of people seem to be against it and it contradicts the established will of the people. One wonders why in order to determine some logical reason for doing this. I don't care if its partisan or not, I've yet to hear a clear, honest reason to push forward with this. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] re. City Council districts
The obvious answer to both of these questioners is that this has not happened before! In past decades, there was a City Council election scheduled soon after the redistricting process was done. That changed in the 90's when city voters changed the City Charter to 4-year terms for Council members. And then the State Legislature required that city redistricting wait until they were done with their own redistricting, so the 2001 election had to be done using the old wards. Despite the fact that I disagree with Rep. Kahn's bill, it still seems really disingenuous to impugn her motives for not having done this before, when in fact the situation has never occurred before. FINALLY! Thanks Tim (and Wizard) for offering a reason at least. We could have mitigated this if this had been said in any of the previous discussions. Assuming this is accurate (off to do a little research), then it shortens the time from 15 to 5 or 6 terms, but it's still something I would expect someone with then 20 years in the legislature to have proposed or even talked about. Unless you're saying that people just don't think ahead. The other thing that disturbs me is that if it's being said that holding the elections in 2005 (on the every 4 year schedule) is disenfranchising voters, yet the voters were the ones who decided we should hold elections then, isn't this bill seeking to disenfranchise as well as negate the will of the people twice? It seems to me that the voters decided that we should have elections in this cycle, knowing what it would do, and they voted for the representatives knowing that the ward boundaries would change, and that they might be represented by someone who doesn't live in their ward. Now like some weird legislative kobayashi maru maneuver Phyllis is trying to retroactively rewrite the parameters of the situation.(KAAHHN!) Shouldn't the will of the people prevail? This is what the people (Which Phyllis and her compatriots are claiming to represent by now suing the same people to get early elections, for the good of the people) wanted, shouldn't that be allow to stand? Or are we supposed to simply surrender the Genesis Device? Jonathan Palmer Who is loving the opportunity to mix pop culture references with serious debate. Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Last time I'm trying this
Post I sent yesterday that half of the people have emailed and said it came through in
gibberish:
Well, I appreciate Don's point of view, but have to respectively disagree. I don't
think that anyone is just fine with census ward lines, and to state so is a bit
misleading. There are two general objections that those opposed to the redrawn maps
have: 1. That the lines were unfairly drawn and done so with the purpose of benefiting
certain Council Members and disadvantaging others, and, 2. That trying to
retroactively force elections smacks more of Florida tactics than it does of trying
to ensure adequate and fair representation.
However, I'm uncertain how you can say that you agree with Phyllis Kahn in her efforts
and say that you respect the opinions of other folks who believe otherwise and yet
still query why some people (I'm pretty sure you meant me since I'm the only one who
wrote about her specifically) question her motives. The motives that people have make
all of the difference in the world. There's a big difference between a man stealing
money or food to feed his family, and a man stealing money or food because he likes
the thrill.
But, case in point, Phyllis accused those elected officials against her bill (HF 67)
of aligning themselves with with Southern Segregationists and their philosphy in this
very forum on February 25, 2003. On Jan 26, 2003, she stated clearly that she felt
disenfranchised as a 3rd Ward resident because the special election was being held in
the old 3rd Ward and endorsed Don's opponent partially because of this, and that she
found it outrageous that ward 6 has two resident council members and 8 had none, and
finally that one of the principles of representative government is residency. Yet
this was never an issue important enough for her to raise in the previous 15 terms.
Again, if you're going to have ethics around an issue, they have to be consistent.
Motive becomes an issue when you keep your mouth shut for 30 years and shout when
things don't go your way and when your actions seem to have no purpose other than
political assault. Motive becomes an issue when you have supporters write fluff
pieces masquerading as news and when you are a public figure stating public reasons
for doing things that people find illogical.
See, I would support Phyllis' resolution if we were talking about from here forward.
Planning for the future doesn't usually disenfranchise voters, it gives people a time
to understand what's happening, and it's called progess. But when you decide to go
into the past and retroactively change systems and it is directed at emerging
groups, it doesn't smack of fairness it rings of marginalization. Finally, I have yet
to hear any groundswell of support from the very people she claims to represent. If
you're going to claim to be doing this for the people it helps when the majority of
them are not against your actions.
Lastly, unfortunately, we don't live in a world of sweetness and light where everyone
does things for the best of reasons. You have to examine and question the intentions
and motives of those in power if only to reassure yourself of them accurately
representing you. If their intentions are good and their motives are pure, they
should stand up to any questioning. But what would have happened if we hadn't
questioned Hitler's motives, he said he was doing things just for the good of the
Aryan race; or what about George Wallace, it was only for the sanctity of good,
God-fearin' Christians that he did what he did, or even tobacco companies and their
policies. To be clear, I don't think Phyllis is anything like these examples, but it
is the purpose and responsibility of every American to question their leaders and
people in positions of power to make certain they are doing the right things for the
right reasons. The ends do not always justify the means.
Jonathan Palmer
Victory
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Re: [Mpls] re: City Council districts
Normally on Sunday morning I get my humor from the comics section, it's pretty funny (Except for the Family Circus. I know it's a classic but there's only so many times you can see a Not Me bit before you start wondering if the publisher lost a bet). Yet this past Sunday I was treated to the comedy stylings of Lori Sturdevant and her one woman tribute to--I'm sorry, article on the newly remastered and digitally enhanced release of the Wrath of Kahn entitled New wards mean there's a need for new city elections. Not since Tori Spelling took a leading role for acting on her Dad's show have I seen such an ingratiating work of ironic comedic fiction. I thought it was supposed to be a serious, unbias report, but then I also remembered that Sturdevant referred to Phyllis as the Godmother of Woman's Sports. But whether your's a Phyllis Phan (who can forget those classic legislative works like the 16-year old voting and let cousins marry initiatives) or not, the fact remains that this is not about Championing the People but rather about one person's dogmatic obsession under the guise of destroying a monster. I believe I already quoted Melville the last time I wrote about this, so I'll leave you to draw your own inference. Don't get me wrong, I understand the logic of realigning the district and accurate representation for the future, it's the retroactive election and cries of injustice that really make no sense. If Phyllis really believes in the need to make things equal right here and right now, I've got a copy of a Slavery Reparations Bill that she can champion over at the Legislature. You want to talk about untimely reconciliation... If you're going to claim ethics, they've got to be consistent. As Tamir pointed out, if this was such an important issue, why wasn't she beating down the doors and pitching her flag in the previous 15 terms she's served. It becomes suspicious when our party loses two seats (and a third is later won by an unendorsed candidate. David's right that the maps had nothing to do with Don's election, but Phyllis did restart her efforts during his election.)and suddenly it's an epidemic. Kind of like how the concerns about drugs and gun violence became really important once they hit the first ring of suburbs in this country. To say definitively that a person elected to a district can or will no longer represent that district because they no longer live in it reveals a different issue that is more disturbing. If someone is elected to represent an area and won't do it fairly and effectively because of geography, then that person shouldn't be in public service, because they don't have the skill set or integrity for the job. To say that they can't do it because they can't represent someplace they don't live leaves you stuck with question how does anyone represent you if they don't live on your block, much less your neighborhood? Districts and Wards are made up of a variety of neighborhoods, some of them as different as the people on the Council or in the House. Where is it that you get to honestly draw that line? Perhaps though, this is Phyllis' issue. Sturdevant said that ...it runs counter to the nature of the political beast. At the Capitol, legislators confess that they mentally adopt new constituencies instantly upon learning that redistricting has awarded them new territory. So maybe this isn't about fairness or what City Council Members would do, but rather a shortcoming that Phyllis or other legislators have. In psychology we call that Projection. Whether you support Redistricting and the maps or not, the bottom line is that trying to retroactively change leadership for the good of the people doesn't hold water as a legitimate attempt to ensure representative government. To keep doing it after it's failed twice, your own party as well as the public at large has denounced it and your support comes from an opposing party and a handful of friends smacks of a deeper, more malicious motive and it's not the way, in my opinion to be part of a government, by the people, of the people and for the people. But it does make for good comedic fiction Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] City Council districts
Well, I appreciate Don's point of view, but have to respectively disagree. I don't
think that anyone is just fine with census ward lines, and to state so is a bit
misleading. There are two general objections that those opposed to the redrawn maps
have: 1. That the lines were unfairly drawn and done so with the purpose of benefiting
certain Council Members and disadvantaging others, and, 2. That trying to
retroactively force elections smacks more of Florida tactics than it does of trying
to ensure adequate and fair representation.
However, I'm uncertain how you can say that you agree with Phyllis Kahn in her efforts
and say that you respect the opinions of other folks who believe otherwise and yet
still query why some people (I'm pretty sure you meant me since I'm the only one who
wrote about her specifically) question her motives. The motives that people have make
all of the difference in the world. There's a big difference between a man stealing
money or food to feed his family, and a man stealing money or food because he likes
the thrill.
But, case in point, Phyllis accused those elected officials against her bill (HF 67)
of aligning themselves with with Southern Segregationists and their philosphy in this
very forum on February 25, 2003. On Jan 26, 2003, she stated clearly that she felt
disenfranchised as a 3rd Ward resident because the special election was being held in
the old 3rd Ward and endorsed Don's opponent partially because of this, and that she
found it outrageous that ward 6 has two resident council members and 8 had none, and
finally that one of the principles of representative government is residency. Yet
this was never an issue important enough for her to raise in the previous 15 terms.
Again, if you're going to have ethics around an issue, they have to be consistent.
Motive becomes an issue when you keep your mouth shut for 30 years and shout when
things don't go your way and when your actions seem to have no purpose other than
political assault. Motive becomes an issue when you have supporters write fluff
pieces masquerading as news and when you are a public figure stating public reasons
for doing things that people find illogical.
See, I would support Phyllis' resolution if we were talking about from here forward.
Planning for the future doesn't usually disenfranchise voters, it gives people a time
to understand what's happening, and it's called progess. But when you decide to go
into the past and retroactively change systems and it is directed at emerging
groups, it doesn't smack of fairness it rings of marginalization. Finally, I have yet
to hear any groundswell of support from the very people she claims to represent. If
you're going to claim to be doing this for the people it helps when the majority of
them are not against your actions.
Lastly, unfortunately, we don't live in a world of sweetness and light where everyone
does things for the best of reasons. You have to examine and question the intentions
and motives of those in power if only to reassure yourself of them accurately
representing you. If their intentions are good and their motives are pure, they
should stand up to any questioning. But what would have happened if we hadn't
questioned Hitler's motives, he said he was doing things just for the good of the
Aryan race; or what about George Wallace, it was only for the sanctity of good,
God-fearin' Christians that he did what he did, or even tobacco companies and their
policies. To be clear, I don't think Phyllis is anything like these examples, but it
is the purpose and responsibility of every American to question their leaders and
people in positions of power to make certain they are doing the right things for the
right reasons. The ends do not always justify the means.
Jonathan Palmer
Victory
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[Mpls] Post resent because it came through as gibberish
Well, I appreciate Don's point of view, but have to respectively disagree. I don't
think that anyone is just fine with census ward lines, and to state so is a bit
misleading. There are two general objections that those opposed to the redrawn maps
have: 1. That the lines were unfairly drawn and done so with the purpose of benefiting
certain Council Members and disadvantaging others, and, 2. That trying to
retroactively force elections smacks more of Florida tactics than it does of trying
to ensure adequate and fair representation.
However, I'm uncertain how you can say that you agree with Phyllis Kahn in her efforts
and say that you respect the opinions of other folks who believe otherwise and yet
still query why some people (I'm pretty sure you meant me since I'm the only one who
wrote about her specifically) question her motives. The motives that people have make
all of the difference in the world. There's a big difference between a man stealing
money or food to feed his family, and a man stealing money or food because he likes
the thrill.
But, case in point, Phyllis accused those elected officials against her bill (HF 67)
of aligning themselves with with Southern Segregationists and their philosphy in this
very forum on February 25, 2003. On Jan 26, 2003, she stated clearly that she felt
disenfranchised as a 3rd Ward resident because the special election was being held in
the old 3rd Ward and endorsed Don's opponent partially because of this, and that she
found it outrageous that ward 6 has two resident council members and 8 had none, and
finally that one of the principles of representative government is residency. Yet
this was never an issue important enough for her to raise in the previous 15 terms.
Again, if you're going to have ethics around an issue, they have to be consistent.
Motive becomes an issue when you keep your mouth shut for 30 years and shout when
things don't go your way and when your actions seem to have no purpose other than
political assault. Motive becomes an issue when you have supporters write fluff
pieces masquerading as news and when you are a public figure stating public reasons
for doing things that people find illogical.
See, I would support Phyllis' resolution if we were talking about from here forward.
Planning for the future doesn't usually disenfranchise voters, it gives people a time
to understand what's happening, and it's called progess. But when you decide to go
into the past and retroactively change systems and it is directed at emerging
groups, it doesn't smack of fairness it rings of marginalization. Finally, I have yet
to hear any groundswell of support from the very people she claims to represent. If
you're going to claim to be doing this for the people it helps when the majority of
them are not against your actions.
Lastly, unfortunately, we don't live in a world of sweetness and light where everyone
does things for the best of reasons. You have to examine and question the intentions
and motives of those in power if only to reassure yourself of them accurately
representing you. If their intentions are good and their motives are pure, they
should stand up to any questioning. But what would have happened if we hadn't
questioned Hitler's motives, he said he was doing things just for the good of the
Aryan race; or what about George Wallace, it was only for the sanctity of good,
God-fearin' Christians that he did what he did, or even tobacco companies and their
policies. To be clear, I don't think Phyllis is anything like these examples, but it
is the purpose and responsibility of every American to question their leaders and
people in positions of power to make certain they are doing the right things for the
right reasons. The ends do not always justify the means.
Jonathan Palmer
Victory
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Re: [Mpls] Who Speaks for White People?
Okay. I admit it. It's me. I speak for White people. We had a Caucasian caucus on Confederate Memorial Day and I was elected emissary because of my genetics. In the future I will try and make broad ranging statements and try to be available when a comment needs to be made or questions answered. Now I'm off to listen to another rendition of How Much Is That Doggy In The Window. Kidding aside, there are several underlying points in this discussion that are quite poignant and several good things that have already been said. One of the best pieces of this discussion I think, is the raising of awareness with the hopeful shifting of the paradigm away from the segmentation that continues to reinforce segregation amongst our various culures. To really understand the discussion, I think you have to look back at history. For several hundred years, White has been considered the status quo or the default. There was no definition or citation of White leadership because of this consideration. Black leadership, Latino leadership, GLBT leadership became defined as such because they were contrary to the norm. I'll focus on Black leadership because it was the main topic raised and for brevity. But historically, Blacks have not had a voice or representation on a daily basis. They were not allowed to. Institutionalized racism and systems of oppression did not allow it. And to cross that rubicon meant death or something worse. Thus when a Frederick Douglas spoke up, he wasn't labelled simply a leader, he was a Black leader. When Martin Luther King or Malcolm X or Fannie Lou Hamer spoke, they were Black leaders. In some regards it is an intentional/unintentional marginalization, in some regards it is the larger population trying to find where things fit in contrast to what has been taught and permeates our society regarding race and achievement. In addition, when these people spoke, they were dealing with different approaches to the same core issues. The majority of the Black community was unified in it's need to address oppression and racism. Thus a leader of the Black Community existed because there was a common enemy or goal. As we fast forward to today, issues and faces have changed. There is not one or two single issues or one or two single perspectives, and that is progress in many regards. But what it also calls for is this shift from segmenting or labelling people in these areas, while not forgetting or diminishing the importance of the issues, especially ones that affect primarily Black people or other marginalized groups. Ron Edwards may have a different approach than Randy Staten, who may be different from Don Samuels' who may be different from Natalie Johnson-Lee's. Each approach may be valid, especially if there are a committed group of constituents behind them and it resonates with the concerns of the larger community, but I prefer to think of them as leaders IN the Black community versus leaders OF the Black community. I look forward to the day when it will be okay to drop the Black off the label and make it just leaders of the community, but many people aren't any more ready for that than they are to integrate Black history with regular history. In essence, the issues that we face: Who's the next superintendent, are convenience stores okay, where and how do you voice concerns about police officer interactions and where are money and resources flowing to and from are not Black/White issues, but rather human and civil rights issues. They are often framed in terms of race because of historical perceptions or current propensities, but the core is about human dignity and civility. About doing the right thing and being aware of historical and racial factors while not getting derailed into them. Who speaks for White people? No one does, anymore that one person speaks for all Black people. The need now is to focus on the core issues and develop solutions that work across racial and cultural lines. The need is for people to be treated equally and fairly across these segmenting factors. And if you find that a Randy Staten or a Don Samuels or a Booker T. Hodges says something that resonates with you or is leading the charge, then support them. Follow them as you will, but remember that they're not leaders of a segmentation of society, they're leaders period. Leaders who may represent certain issues or constituents, but in the end just leaders not reserved or restricted to certain areas. Move beyond the rhetoric and deal with what's right and necessary. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis
[Mpls] And now for something completely different: HBCU Sports
Went to an HBCU or just wish you did? Tired of waiting for the scores to come weeks later? On a totally diversionary note, I discovered that MBC broadcasts top HBCU games on the weekends. Tonight I watched Morehouse crush Clark Atlanta 48-33 at our Homecoming game and then got to see FAMU's Marching 100 perform. So for all you HBCU alumni or interested parties check out MBC (channel 250 here in North Minneapolis) on the weekends. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Two Halloween Events in Jordan
Sorry, forgot to sign... Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council 612-529-9267 REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Jordan Already Has a Teen Center (Was John Martin continues to push for Jordan Teen Center)
While I believe that we can never have enough resources for youth in our communities, in the interest of perspective it should be noted that we actually have a teen center here in Jordan, it's called the Boys and Girls Club, Jerry Gamble Branch. The Club is located at 2410 Irving Avenue N. Boys and Girls Clubs have had a presence in Minneapolis since 1959 and is one of the nation's oldest and largest organization focusing on serving disadvantaged youth. The one in Jordan has many activities that focus on social development, health and fitness and cultural enrichment including Teen Night, High Adventure for Teens and Club Dance. In addition our neighborhood juvenile probation officer along with Alternatives: A Program for Youth will be launching the CITA(Community Is The Answer) Resource Center that will be located at Jordan New Life Church on 26th and Newton Avenues N in November. The Center will focus on three areas: providing positive activities for youth in the community, connecting community agencies directly with service populations and a focal point for community gatherings and positive energy. They will also be actively going out to engage and recruit youth from the community, especially in the high crime areas. We certainly welcome any new initiatives that can provide more resources and activities for youth in our community, but we also want people to know what is also currently available to them and encourage people to try as many of them as possible to find the one that best fits their needs. Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Coddling the Criminals: CUAPB Statement on Latest Police Brutality(?) Incident
Michelle, Here's what I don't quite understand. How do you reconcile this statement: No matter what you believe a person has done, they are still entitled to a fair trial. We cannot allow a person to be made indefensible by accusations... -[Mpls] Coddling the Criminals: CUAPB Statement on Latest Police Brutality(?) Incident with this one: We denounce in the strongest possible terms this heinous attack on a member of our community, stated Michelle Gross, spokesperson for CUAPB. She added, It is shocking to the conscience that two similar incidents involving sexual assault should occur nine days apart by two different law enforcement agencies in Minneapolis. Communities United Against Police Brutality will continue to advocate for and assist these survivors of police brutality and their families. We are calling for independent medical examinations and for appropriate medical and psychological care for these men in the aftermath of their assaults. -[Mpls] CUAPB Statement on Latest Police Brutality Incident While there is still investigations going on? Any rational person recognizes that there are disproportionate numbers of people of color and poor people in the criminal justice system, as well as there are police officers who abuse the power that they have, and who should never have a badge in the first place. What I'm not sure of is why a criminal, especially a repeat offender, is more worthy of being innocent until proven guilty than a police officer? When police officers violate the very law they are sworn to uphold, I would be the first to argue that the penalties and punishment should be more severe than the average person on the street, and if any of these officers are guilty of these crimes, there is no amount of punishment that would be severe enough in my mind, and I would harken back to some medieval techniques that would be closer to appropriate treatment for this. However, isn't it just as appropriate to give these officers, if not the benefit of the doubt, than at least the same fair trials you call upon for criminals? Is it not right that they as well should be afforded an unbias investigation into this matter? And if they are found to be innocent, I will echo Anne's question of will you as strongly exonerate them as you have pre-emptively condemned them? No one has said that these individuals deserved the alleged assaults, but they have raised the concern that people could make up these allegations in order to draw attention from their crimes. How is it more plausible that an officer assaulted an individual with a plunger than that a individual created a story for leniency? Is this not what investigations are for discerning? And should we not wait for all the facts to emerge and investigations to be completed before coming to the conclusions of what happened? Having been a victim of police harassment and assault, I strongly believe that those who we have trusted with power have a higher responsibility not to abuse it. But as someone who believes strongly in principles of law and order, in fair and equal treatment, in appropriate measures for dealing with one another in a civil society, I submit that we have to adhere to the self same principles and ideals that we call for from our officers. Most noted among these is giving the same right of due process to our enemies or those we despise as much as we do to those we love or support. The validity of being able to call for an end to abuse and unfair treatment, requires that the ethic be consistent across the board and that all people, including police officers, be afforded equal treatment under the law and in public. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Jordan's Latest Gem: The Bean Scene Opens
Be Seen At The Bean Scene! Don't forget, this weekend marks the Grand Opening of the Bean Scene, the only Coffee House with a drive-thru that I'm aware of on the Northside and the only one of its kind in the Jordan Neighborhood. They feature soups, sandwiches, smoothies, baked goods, an internet cafe and of course great coffee! All day long today there's free samples of all of the above as well as: *Storytelling from 10am-12pm *Pumpkin Decorating from 12pm-2pm (sponsored by JACC) *Open Mike Spoken Word for all ages from 2pm-4pm and *Open Mike Acoustical and Spoken Word, 18+ from 7pm-10pm So cruise through today and check out the latest marvel on the Northside and find out why you should be seen at the Bean Scene! Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Bean Scene Address
I'm so excited I neglected to include the location which is the corner of Penn Avenue and West Broadway Avenue. So whether you need a quick charge before you get on the highway to go to work (they've got drive-thru) or a relaxing place to hang out and check your email. Be seen at the Bean Scene. Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
Tom, This is a rather unfair and misleading transition from a general policy question (which is actually incorrect) to an individual criticism (which borders on a personal attack), and really comes off as framing it as the first in order to do the second. If that's not your intention, you may want to state it differently. I think the question of appointing versus electing is a good one, not one that I agree with, but certainly worth discussing. Generally, in my opinion, for appointed boards and commissions they are done that way because the individuals we elect are given the trust that they will find people who can do the work and can be effective in getting the job done. But I'd like to hear your position on why all boards and commissions should be elected. Now specifically regarding this situation, a position has opened up on the Library Board because one of it's members (I believe George Garnett) has stepped down. As with most boards and commissions, when there is a vacancy, the appointing authority can fill the vacancy to finish the term. It is not circumventing democracy, but rather the SOP so that the work can continue. If you have elections everytime a vacancy comes up, you can say that the people get to choose, but how valid is that choice. You have a truncated timeline for campaigning and for voters to really hear the candidates, and during that time, the seat remains vacant and less work is accomplished, and less perspective is at the table. By all means present a counter position, but let's be honest about the situation. This isn't circumventing anything and certainly not one individual doing that. As for your personal feelings about Wizard, which really have no place in the policy or process debate, I would suggest either contacting the other Board members and the Mayor to make your feelings know or else putting yourself in the running in situations like this. But the appointing is by no means improper or circumventing anything. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Best Minneapolis Restaurants
The rankings for Citysearch's Best of the Twin Cities Restaurants are in (http://twincities.citysearch.com/best/categories/2003/?cslink=cs_boc_nh_twincities) and I'd like to highlight a few of my favorite restaurants which took top marks and invite y'all to do the same. -Big E's Soul Food won the #9 spot for Audience Pick and the #5 spot for Editorial Pick in the category of Best Cheap Eats -Rainbow Chinese Restaurant won #1 for Audience pick, #2 for Editorial Pick in the Category of Best Chinese Food -And Pizza Luce won #1 for both Audience and Editorial picks for Best Late Night Dining and the #1 slot for Editorial pick and the #2 slot for Audience pick (although the #1 is in St. Paul so it's #1 for Minneapolis) in the category of Best Pizza. If you haven't been to these restaurants, let this be a clue and get to them, they're great! Jonathan Palmer Victory
[Mpls] Best Restaurants in Minneapolis
The rankings for Citysearch's Best of the Twin Cities Restaurants are in (http://twincities.citysearch.com/best/categories/2003/?cslink=cs_boc_nh_twincities) and I'd like to highlight a few of my favorite restaurants which took top marks and invite y'all to do the same. -Big E's Soul Food won the #9 spot for Audience Pick and the #5 spot for Editorial Pick in the category of Best Cheap Eats -Rainbow Chinese Restaurant won #1 for Audience pick, #2 for Editorial Pick in the Category of Best Chinese Food -And Pizza Luce won #1 for both Audience and Editorial picks for Best Late Night Dining and the #1 slot for Editorial pick and the #2 slot for Audience pick (although the #1 is in St. Paul so it's #1 for Minneapolis) in the category of Best Pizza. If you haven't been to these restaurants, let this be a clue and get to them, they're great! Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] comment to (no subject)
I would like to point out that some conclusions are being drawn that are neither the facts nor were they contained in the article. First off, if you don't believe in community service for minor violations than it won't matter debating, and you should probably not even continue reading this post, but rather head over the comics section of the Strib where you can have a few laughs and not let your blood pressure rise from the thought of people getting off easy. To begin with, this was not a program exclusively for Black people nor was it simply two hours of community service. Only Jason Young, the first person mentioned, says two hours, none of the others mentioned time, and as I understand it, the range was from 2-8 hours depending upon the severity of the violation, and this was determined by a judge after they waited in line for an hour to two. Second, I don't see how anyone can call this light without knowing the actual details of the offenses and punishment. Unless Jason was the one that hit Jill's car and did the damage, it's misleading to say that all this person had to do was 2 hours and that was it. And if that was the case, Jill should be on her insurance company and their attorney for not making sure this guy was prosecuted. Did they give you a reason why? Third, the purpose of this initiative was to give people a second chance. Have them come in, perform some restorative justice service to the community, and start fresh. These were not murderers and rapists, these were people who screwed up, drove without a license, let their insurance lapse, etc. In fact, the common violation for each of the people mentioned was driving without a valid license. A minor offense. I'm not saying that no one there did worse or that this was it, but we're hardly talking about the leader of the GDs for arson. Who amongst us has not screwed up somewhere along the lines, and who amongst us has not needed a second chance to get something right or an opportunity to face something that you've been afraid to deal with. It's well and good to say that they should just go to court like everyone, but that can be pretty intimidating when you have little to no understanding of the legal system or how justice is dispensed. How many people really knew what Nolo Contendere meant before going to court? The bottom line is this was an opportunity to help some people who made a mistake and wanted to get back on track. Two of the three people talked directly about taking responsibility for themselves and how great it was to have the opportunity to move past this and never do it again. Doesn't that present a case of how giving second chances can lead to better citizens? Doesn't that present the case that it was worth it? What is the going rate for a cleaner community, a clear conscience, empowerment and better citizenry? Our criminal justice system is disproportionally filled with people of color, the poor and the uneducated. Certainly there are a lot of people who are criminals, deserve punishment and severe penalties within it. But there are also a large group who have made a mistake, and just don't know how to deal with it. And if that's the case, as a benevolent community aren't we obligated to try and create that opportunity, and even if some hardened criminals escaped their traffic ticket with community service, isn't that worth it to save the one young kid who might have had a warrant out for no insurance that would have become a hardened criminal by doing jail time? Can we not, as a community or society, show mercy and be more concerned with punishing the murderer than the litterbug? Jonathan Palmer Victory TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Join Us in Jordan with the Mayor and MAD DADs
JACC Forum 6:30PM Unity House, 2507 Fremont Avenue N Third Thursday of Every Month (that's tonight folks) Join us to talk about issues facing the neighborhood every month and meet your neighbors. This month's topic: **The 2004 Minneapolis Budget presented by Mayor RT Rybak** 6:30pm - Announcements and JACC Business 7:00pm - Mayor RT Rybak Jordan Street Patrol Every Friday 6pm - 8pm With VJ Smith and MAD DADs Come join us to patrol the neighborhood and help keep our community safe. VJ Smith and MAD DADs give a general safety orientation and lead the patrols through the neighborhood. More shifts coming soon. Please Contact Me with any questions Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council (JACC) 612-529-9267 TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Gallmon's Racist Comments in the Strib
It is rare that one gets an opportunity to correct misconceptions of history and culture of this magnitude, and I believe just such misperceptions explain a piece of the puzzle of why children of color, especially African Americans do as poorly as they do within the system. To begin with Africans weren't impressed into Slavery. It was not as if Julie the Cruise Director was standing by the first Slave ship with a brochure on the midnight buffet, and they were all impressed enough to get on. No they were captured, abducted, assaulted and any other form of violent kidnapping you can think of. In your own words, some history for you: the African Slave trade and the institution of American Slavery were like no atrocity committed before or since then. You cannot compare it to the Irish or Jews of medieval Europe, it is not the same. It's like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing it. And yes, you can say they had choice, the same way a rape victim has a choice to be raped or not, or the way that a Gay person has a choice to be Gay or not, because either of them could kill themselves and then they wouldn't be raped or Gay, they'd be dead. People who jump out of windows also have the choice to fall or not. No, my friend, there wasn't a choice like the Irish chose to leave Europe. It's very hard to kill yourself when your shackled to 200 hundred other people, stacked on top of each other like dead fish at the Farmer's Market, starving in darkness. Some people did get free and kill themselves, some others were chained to boulders and tossed overboard because the traders misestimated supplies. An estimated 20 Million died on the Middle Passage (the ocean journey to America) alone. And the reason why the traditions did not remain intact had nothing to do with animist beliefs as you called it, but rather with the fact that when Slaves were sold, they were separated intentionally from their tribe and family members to prevent communication and make them easier to dominate, as if the raping, mutiliation, whippings, starvation, assaulting and murdering were not enough. And despite what you may believe, Africa was not an ignorant continent steeped only in animist beliefs and comical witch doctors. In addition to being the cradle of mankind, the cradle of civilization, the center or learning in antiquity, it is also the birthplace of Christianity. Up until the time of Constantine, Alexandria was the capital of Christiandom and Egypt was securely Christian before Greece or Rome. Slaves embraced Christianity sometimes because it was a return to some of their cultures, sometimes because they were tortured into. No, this is not some simple choice to be made or a simple experience to overcome. We are talking about hundreds of years of bondage and oppression, hundreds of years of brainwashing Whites and Blacks into the inferiority of Blacks, and well over 100 Million killed within the institution of Slavery in addition to the Middle Passage. There is truly nothing like it, and without such a precedent, you cannot logically say how easy it is to get over. Michael has it right (can't believe I'm agreeing too) and as an extension, the problem is two-fold. The foundation does lie in the racism inherent in the system. And as much as Doug Mann does a good job of delineating this part (this is like Twilight Zone scary that I'm actually saying this about Doug too), there is another part of the solution and the trend and that's what Al Gallmon did point out. Now I happen to think that Al only pointed out part of the problem, but you can't dismiss it as false because it's only partly true. Krasnov's statements show the other part of the problem and give validity to Doug's statements about racism in the system, the miseducation of people into the belief of the intellectual inferiority of Blacks permeates our society, to the point that even Blacks believe it. Now you come to today where thug culture is more glorified than college culture. That is you're not a playa, you're selling out. And in my opinion , all of the foundation of that has come from racism and the practices of racist people who have instilled that dynamic. Yet and still today, that is the root cause, but the reality extension is the dissolution of the family bond and the support system promoting education. As a boardmember for Morehouse College's National Alumni Association, whihc is the premier institution for African Americans, I see the trends, I've talked to parents and students alike. The problem is how Al describes it, just no solely that. And for those of you still laboring under the illusion that Blacks chose Slavery, were better off in it, or were lost without it, I would suggest you venture a little outside of the World Book Encyclopedia or Birth of a Nation for your examination of history, and would be happy to suggest some books if you email me offline. Jonathan
[Mpls] Gangs, Drugs and Patrols
If I can, I would like to clear up a couple of what seems like misconceptions regarding the drug dealing, gangs, and solutions and ongoing efforts. First an observation was made at a meeting this morning by someone else (who I will leave nameless unless she wants to take credit) that I agree with and that is that primarily what we're dealing with is gangs and territory, and for that reason it will not just pick up and move to another neighborhood. The reason being is because of territory. Gangmembers deal inside their territory and as such are not going to move into someone else's because of police pressure or street patrols. They may move within their territory, but to do the other brings gangwar along with arrests. Dealing may increase, but it's in a place that has already had these problems, the gangs are not moving out to Eagan all of the sudden. If, however, you really believe that the increased patrols and such are going to move all the activity to your neighborhood and are going to make the claim of being the neighborhood of the displaced crime, I would ask you to consider that this crime came and still comes to Jordan from other parts of the city, state and country. Jordan is the original home of the displaced crime. I say this not to shut anyone up, but to really make the point that this is a group effort and that we do have to attack it from a unified approach. Yes, the patrol is starting in Jordan, and yes many of the resources are coming to Jordan, but the longterm approach is to have a mechanism in place that will leave no neighborhood behind. Sorry, couldn't resist. In all seriousness, we've started this in Jordan, but don't plan on ending it in Jordan. We want to develop in the long term a network of people who can go where they're needed. To join together with Hawthorne and McKinley and patrol our streets together. To be ready when Phillips and Powderhorn call to send a group of patrol members down south. To learn and work in connection with established experts like Stevens Square. Give us time to get going though. And so the ideas and meetings are starting. We're looking at multi-neighborhood strategies at the same time we're organizing this group. We're taking suggestions and pulling together meetings of different neighborhood and civic leaders to develop multipronged approaches. So call or email me if you've got an idea, want to be at the table, or most importantly want to help out. We've gotten a lot of attention and assistance over the last week, and instead of getting in a contest over who has it the worse, let's work together on how we can make this work to everyone's advantage. Jonathan Palmer working in Jordan and living in Victory TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Jordan Street Patrol Starting
Upcoming Events: Friday, August 8, 2003 Abridged orientation and initial patrol with VJ Smith and MAD DADs 6:00pm at the Jordan Community Garden, 26th Knox Aves. N Tuesday, August 12, 2003 CCP/Safe Information Session with Luther Krueger and full orientation with Jonathan Palmer, 6:00pm at Unity House, 2507 Fremont Ave. N. Organized by the Jordan Area Community Council (JACC) and MAD DADs. For more information, contact Jonathan Palmer at 612-529-9267. More information to come. Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Gangs and state help
One of the messages that I and others have put out repeatedly is how much this is not just a Jordan problem or a Northside problem, but a City, County and State problem. Don started the ball rolling with his vigil, but he had a vision of a larger effort and RT, Mark Stenglein and Tim Pawlenty all recognized this and joined on to help carry the ball because this must be a team effort. This is an issue that effects the quality of life everywhere whether the effects are as noticeable in Eagan as they are in Jordan or not; Don and the others recognized this. The overall message has to be that we are all coming together to address this issue. The solution starts in Jordan, but the long lerm initiative is to develop a movement that will not only support the whole City, County and State, but improve the overall quality of life. This is why Don asked for asked for volunteers from all over, not just to deal with Jordan but everyone's issues. And so as we move forward, we're going to crack down on Jordan, but we want to establish a network that will be ready to move to any hotspot and not simply react, but proactively bring the pressure to the criminals and support to the neighbors so that no one is afraid to play in the front yard or walk to the store. We need to connect together the Block and Street Patrols from across the city so that when Stevens Square needs help on 3rd Avenue we can all be there. So that when Phillips needs help on Portland Avenue, we can all be there. So that when Hawthorne needs help on Dupont, we can all be there. So what we need now is for people to contact me to sign up and be a part of this and for neighborhood, City, County and State leaders to come together and help put the structure in place so that we're not simply moving the crime, but we're working together to squash it. JACC will be spearheading this, but it's a team effort. Contact me to sign up, and then start pulling together your ideas and be ready to meet in the next two weeks to help devise the strategy that will allow this not simply to be solution for Jordan but for the whole Minnesota Community. Jonathan Palmer Director Jordan Area Community Council
