Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Ivanko B]

Sieghard is correct though, animated gifs are limited to 256 colors,
===
256c GIF damages gradients (1%) but preservs filled areas (99%) as
contrary to JPEG.

2013/1/13, Graeme Geldenhuys :
> On 01/11/13 22:19, Sieghard wrote:
>>
>> What does it do better than any other format?
>
> I found for a short video of a few seconds it is much smaller than AVI
> videos.
>
> Also there are 1000's of programs and any web browser (very old or new)
> that can view animated gifs.
>
>
>> Nice... _Did_ it have the intended effect?
>
> Yes, they guy figured out what he did wrong.
>
>
> Regards,
>   - Graeme -
>
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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 01/11/13 22:19, Sieghard wrote:
> 
> What does it do better than any other format?

I found for a short video of a few seconds it is much smaller than AVI
videos.

Also there are 1000's of programs and any web browser (very old or new)
that can view animated gifs.


> Nice... _Did_ it have the intended effect?

Yes, they guy figured out what he did wrong.


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 01/12/13 07:26, Ivanko B wrote:
> AGIF are worse in that they can't be paused unless open in a special
> graphics editor so irrelevant for tuitorals etc.
> But they're excelnet just for demonstrating

Exactly, Animated GIFs are only efficient if they are short. Plus I find
them easier to make and opitimise than AVI's. Short AVI's also tend to
be much larger than the same video as an Animated GIF - no idea why.

The GIMP (graphics editor) has excellent Animated GIF support, and can
optimise successive images only to contain the difference between the
previous frame - making the whole animated gif much smaller.

Sieghard is correct though, animated gifs are limited to 256 colors, so
if you do full screen videos, it is preferred that your desktop
background has a solid image (looks better in any video anyway).

Anyway, enough about videos. :)


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Sieghard]

Hallo Ivanko,

Du schriebst am Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:26:21 +0500:

> Also they're built from GIF "frames" idealy (almost lossless)

Well... if you dare to call to 256 color posters reduced pictures
"lossless", anyway...
This really shows in Graeme's gif-"video" - the shaded background has
become a fringy distorted succession of colorized stripes with no
resemblance to what it might have looked originally.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Ivanko B]

AGIF are worse in that they can't be paused unless open in a special
graphics editor so irrelevant for tuitorals etc.
But they're excelnet just for demonstrating ".. can do ..!", sure.
Also they're built from GIF "frames" idealy (almost lossless)
compressed from screenshots as contrary to damaged JPEG "frames" in
video files.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Sieghard]

Hallo Graeme,

Du schriebst am Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:49:03 +:

> Another option I use quite often for short videos (1 minute max) is to
> use an Animated GIF.

What does it do better than any other format?

> Here is an example of posted for somebody. They argued that the fpGUI UI
> Designer couldn't create the form they wanted. Instead of me writing a
> 20 page document on the subject, I did the quick animated gif to prove

Nice... _Did_ it have the intended effect? I.e. did it teach the person
what to do to get what he wanted, or did it just provide him with that one
sample you prepared for him?
To really learn what the critical steps be, I'd have to view it multiply
fully (ignoring your also recorded mishaps and mistypings), re-repeat
watching several sequences I think might be relevant, just to discover some
really aren't, and end up taking noted as to what happened, what it
effected and what might be important.
Yes, this boils down to taking _a lot more_ time that your writing "a 20
page document" (which it wouldn't have become) - albeit the time had to be
spent by the one to be taught, not the teacher. 
It seems that this might be the real intention behind the proliferation of
video "tutorials" - shift the time consuming part away from the teacher to
the learner.
This might be tolerable in your case, where there presumably was just one
"learner" who could afford to spend the time more easily than you, the
teacher - it sure isn't the case with "professional" tutorials meant to
educate hundreds or more about some topic.
Video "tutorials" IM(H)O are simply wasting the time of those wanting to
learn in favor for easing the task of those _meant to_ teach, and that's why
I'm opposing them.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 01/09/13 21:32, Sieghard wrote:
> 
> Well, I've no poblem with that - I'm not a video guy, in fact, I really
> dislike it when all some people present about a topic is a video "so you
> can see everything for yourself".


Another option I use quite often for short videos (1 minute max) is to
use an Animated GIF.

Here is an example of posted for somebody. They argued that the fpGUI UI
Designer couldn't create the form they wanted. Instead of me writing a
20 page document on the subject, I did the quick animated gif to prove
that the UI Designer was perfectly capable of creating the simple form
they wanted.

  http://opensoft.homeip.net/~graemeg/editform.gif


Many people forget about Animated GIF's - I think they are awesome for
short video clips.

Another good example of how useful animated gifs can be is this page.

  http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since


Maybe MSEide should have such a page on mseide.org too - to help
developers discover all the hidden gems of MSEide.


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  - Graeme -

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Sieghard]

Hallo Graeme,

Du schriebst am Wed, 09 Jan 2013 09:08:42 +:

> On 01/08/13 21:48, Sieghard wrote:
> > It's the same thing everytime this comes up - incompatibility prevails.
> 
> Like I said, use OGG Video. It has a free and open source container and
> codec. Most web browser can play those videos, so you don't even need a
> dedicated video player.

Well, I've no poblem with that - I'm not a video guy, in fact, I really
dislike it when all some people present about a topic is a video "so you
can see everything for yourself".
Videos are much more time consuming than any text description
(notwithstanding the saying about picture and word count), it's extremely
easy to overlook something, you have to repeatedly rewind and review
something difficult to see or recognize, and it's often quite unclear
what's important and what's just irrelevant decoration.
(And I can't afford sufficient time for watching vanity plays.)

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 01/08/13 21:48, Sieghard wrote:
> It's the same thing everytime this comes up - incompatibility prevails.

Like I said, use OGG Video. It has a free and open source container and
codec. Most web browser can play those videos, so you don't even need a
dedicated video player.


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Sieghard]

Hallo Julio,

Du schriebst am Tue, 8 Jan 2013 09:45:35 +0100:

> Yes, FLV like AVI are just containers. You still need the right codecs.

And that can be a problem - some codecs aren't free, even patented.

> BTW, I don't understand why too much noise for a simple video file.

It's a mess, digital video. There are nearly more different packaging
methods than useful content out, and every player program uses its own
strategy to recognize what it wants to handle nad has a different set of
codecs to do so (or a different set of codecs missing...).
It's the same thing everytime this comes up - incompatibility prevails.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Ivanko B]

isn't flv just a
container that can carry most anything around?
===
Anyway instantly detected so that FLV Adobe player will be 1-st thing
to dowbload.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Julio Jiménez]

2013/1/7 Sieghard 

>
>
> Apart from the fact that digital video formats are a mess, isn't flv just a
> container that can carry most anything around?
>
>
Yes, FLV like AVI are just containers. You still need the right codecs.

BTW, I don't understand why too much noise for a simple video file.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Sieghard]

Hallo Ivanko,

Du schriebst am Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:53:03 +0500:

> You don't have privacy anymore
> ===
> Not a trouble for people from communistic world :)

Yes, you might be accustomed to be watched all time, but even those people
used to have some privacy. The new social media provoke many to give up even
this - and even voluntarily so.

> The ideal solution for sharing videos might be be video hosting

Anyone can do that if they have some web space of their own.

> (casting FLV files for peple with unlimited Internet traffic) with
> download hyperlink provided.

Apart from the fact that digital video formats are a mess, isn't flv just a
container that can carry most anything around?

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Sieghard]

Hallo Graeme,

Du schriebst am Mon, 07 Jan 2013 12:22:31 +:

> Yeah, YouTube (and Google products) are pretty frustrating sometimes.
> eg: Using a browser without Flash installed (Firefox 17), I can't view
> many videos on  YouTube via HTML5 Video. But embed that same video in a
> Google+ post, then it plays fine without Flash! Go figure!!

As I wrote to Ivanko, apart from the fact that video formats are a mess
anyway, isn't the flash format just a container format? As are most other
well known "video" formats, BTW - even mpeg4, I lately read, doesn't
specify _exactly_ its contents, but allows for a - albeit rather strictly
controlled - range of content codings.
Your problem with Youtube videos might even be caused by that mess - the
file extensions tell close to nothing about the content, and sometimes
they're righteously misleading. Change the extension that your player
doesn't like to something it accepts, and it tries and opens the file and
there's a good chance that it will find it acceptable...
BTW, Linux' mplayer is very versatile in this respect and takes most
formats you throw at it. And it can even convert to other formats.
(But other players are versatile enough as well;)

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 01/06/13 23:32, Sieghard wrote:
> 
>> YouTube just hosts most widely player compatible videos.
> 
> As wide as Flash is found, at least...

Yeah, YouTube (and Google products) are pretty frustrating sometimes.
eg: Using a browser without Flash installed (Firefox 17), I can't view
many videos on  YouTube via HTML5 Video. But embed that same video in a
Google+ post, then it plays fine without Flash! Go figure!!


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 01/06/13 16:57, Ivanko B wrote:
> Just convert it into a FLV video [as for YouTube ].

I double checked via MD5 and the source file I have and the one uploaded
to my website are identical. The file is MPEG4 (or Divx), but it works
fine here on two different PC's using VLC.

If the file must be converted to a different format, please use a format
that is more open like OGG Video or WebM, which means it can play in any
web browser via "File-Open" menu. Please no Flash!


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Ivanko B]

You don't have privacy anymore
===
Not a trouble for people from communistic world :)

The ideal solution for sharing videos might be be video hosting
(casting FLV files for peple with unlimited Internet traffic) with
download hyperlink provided.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Sieghard]

Hallo Ivanko,

Du schriebst am Sun, 6 Jan 2013 22:57:11 +0500:

> YouTube just hosts most widely player compatible videos.

As wide as Flash is found, at least...

> If You have a Google account then You may upload to YouTube instantly.

If you have a Google account, then you live in the internet anyway.
You don't have privacy anymore, and you don't have a personality of your
own. You're owned by Google, all you do and all you don't is registered.
}:->

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Patrick Goupell]

On 01/06/2013 12:57 PM, Ivanko B wrote:
> YouTube just hosts most widely player compatible videos.
> If You have a Google account then You may upload to YouTube instantly.
>
>
Nope, don't have one of those either.

Patrick

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Ivanko B]

YouTube just hosts most widely player compatible videos.
If You have a Google account then You may upload to YouTube instantly.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Patrick Goupell]

On 01/06/2013 12:03 PM, Ivanko B wrote:
> Just convert it into a FLV video [as for YouTube ].
> ==
> May be done via uploading it to YouTube (it'll perform the needed
> conversion by itself) then downland the resulting video.
>

You are assuming that I actually use youtube.

Patrick

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Ivanko B]

Just convert it into a FLV video [as for YouTube ].
==
May be done via uploading it to YouTube (it'll perform the needed
conversion by itself) then downland the resulting video.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Ivanko B]

Just convert it into a FLV video [as for YouTube ].

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Julio Jiménez]

Video info:

Input #0, avi, from 'mse_demo.mpeg':
  Duration: 00:02:03.72, start: 0.00, bitrate: 1455 kb/s
Stream #0.0: Video: mpeg4 (Simple Profile), yuv420p, 1280x910 [PAR 1:1
DAR 128:91], 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc
   2.32 A-V:  0.000 s:0.0 aq=0KB vq=5KB sq=0B f=0/0   0/0

So you need mpeg4 codecs. Most of players have support for it.

2013/1/6 Patrick Goupell 

>
>
> On 01/06/2013 09:11 AM, Julio Jiménez wrote:
>
>
>
> 2013/1/6 Patrick Goupell 
>
>>
>>
>> Should I worry about that or just specify what player to use?
>>
>>
> I think is not the player, are the needed codecs.
>
>
>  And how would I know what windows media player might need to work?
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --
> Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS,
> MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current
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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Julio Jiménez]

Well, if you want to play a DIVX movie, you need the DivX codec.. probably
Windows Media Player is not the best player out there for other formats
different than M$ ones. Try any 'true' player ;)  (like VLC) and don't
worry about video formats. There are lots of players.

You also can convert the video to the desired format... google for video
converters...




2013/1/6 Patrick Goupell 

>
>
> On 01/06/2013 09:11 AM, Julio Jiménez wrote:
>
>
>
> 2013/1/6 Patrick Goupell 
>
>>
>>
>> Should I worry about that or just specify what player to use?
>>
>>
> I think is not the player, are the needed codecs.
>
>
>  And how would I know what windows media player might need to work?
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --
> Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS,
> MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current
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>
>


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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Patrick Goupell]

On 01/06/2013 09:11 AM, Julio Jiménez wrote:



2013/1/6 Patrick Goupell >




Should I worry about that or just specify what player to use?


I think is not the player, are the needed codecs.



And how would I know what windows media player might need to work?

Patrick
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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Julio Jiménez]

2013/1/6 Patrick Goupell 

>
>
> Should I worry about that or just specify what player to use?
>
>
I think is not the player, are the needed codecs.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Patrick Goupell]

On 01/06/2013 08:52 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

Hi,


Were you able to view this video?

Perhaps your upload got corrupted.


It plays fine here using VLC player.

Regards,
  - Graeme -




I was using windows media player as that is the default windows player.

Should I worry about that or just specify what player to use?

Patrick

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Patrick Goupell]

On 01/06/2013 08:34 AM, Julio Jiménez wrote:
> The video is ok. I have downloaded in two computers and all is fine.
>
> Are you sure isn't your player?
>
>
I used windows media player as that is the default windows player.

What did you use to watch the video?

Patrick

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

Hi,




Were you able to view this video?

Perhaps your upload got corrupted.


It plays fine here using VLC player.

Regards,
 - Graeme -

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Julio Jiménez]

The video is ok. I have downloaded in two computers and all is fine.

Are you sure isn't your player?



2013/1/6 Patrick Goupell 

>
>
> On 01/04/2013 10:04 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> > On 04/01/13 14:57, Patrick Goupell wrote:
> >> Post the download.  There is a spot for videos on the msegui.orgwebsite
> >> and I will put it there.
> >
> > OK, you can find it here...
> >
> > http://opensoft.homeip.net/~graemeg/videos/
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >- Graeme -
> >
> Graeme,
>
> The download does not play.
>
> Can you verify the upload did not get corrupted?  Maybe upload it again.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> --
> Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS,
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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Patrick Goupell]

On 01/04/2013 10:04 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> On 04/01/13 14:57, Patrick Goupell wrote:
>> Post the download.  There is a spot for videos on the msegui.org website
>> and I will put it there.
>
> OK, you can find it here...
>
> http://opensoft.homeip.net/~graemeg/videos/
>
>
>
> Regards,
>- Graeme -
>
Graeme,

The download does not play.

Can you verify the upload did not get corrupted?  Maybe upload it again.

Thank you.

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Ivanko B]

 There is a spot for videos on the msegui.org website
and I will put it there.
===
To the FLV format so that to be played by FlashPlayer ?

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Patrick Goupell]

On 01/04/2013 10:04 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> OK, you can find it here... 
> http://opensoft.homeip.net/~graemeg/videos/ Regards, - Graeme - 

After the download windows media player encounters an unknown error.

Were you able to view this video?

Perhaps your upload got corrupted.

Patrick

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 04/01/13 14:57, Patrick Goupell wrote:
> 
> Post the download.  There is a spot for videos on the msegui.org website 
> and I will put it there.


OK, you can find it here...

   http://opensoft.homeip.net/~graemeg/videos/



Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEgui video demo

[Patrick Goupell]

On 01/04/2013 09:41 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>
> Anyway, if somebody wants it, I can make it available on my web server
> for download, and it could maybe be added to the MSEgui website.
>
>

Post the download.  There is a spot for videos on the msegui.org website 
and I will put it there.

Patrick

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