Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:27:50 +0200, Laurens Holst wrote: >> This is just a speed up. (-: It doesn't generate garbage, and once you >>switch back to 3.57, everythig is ok again. >Well I certainly think it sounds like garbage. Especially when it switches >back to 3.5MHz all the time. The thing I was talking about by the way is why >they didn't output a 3.5MHz clock to the devices, it wouldn't be hard and >cause insynchronization (???) since the clock speed is exactly the double. To sync you'll have to slow Z80 down, because PSG, pe, doesn't control the speed the data arrives. Even making PSG work at 3.57Mhz, it will sound faster if the sound routine is not interrupt-attached. So, the only solution is: if data is sent to PSG and another that is sent before a resonable time, a circuit should "halt" Z80 until PSG is ready to play the new data. BTW, this is what TR does with V9958. >The real solution is letting the engine control the timing, just like the >turboR does. If you output a byte to a port, and then output another byte >too fast after the first, the engine holds that byte and sends a wait signal >to the processor until the preset wait-time expired. Yes, this is the trick. I think this is the better type of control, but I also think it would be nice to be turned on and off... Something we would like to use "different speeds" to play data. (^= The bad thing on TR is there is no way to turn this control off. - AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) /| | | |\ \| ___ |/ OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ \/ - \/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html | | MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ -- -- Drawings:http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ ...Programar e' a arte de organizar zeros e uns de forma que eles produzam trabalho util! Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also http://www.faq.msxnet.org/
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
>>Not necessarily true. If I make the PSG generate a monotonic sound >>(e.g by doing a couple of 'SOUND x,y' instructions in BASIC) and then switch >>between 3.57 and 7.14MHz (so no information flowing between PSG and z80 at >>that time!) the sound gets distorted too. Same holds for other music extensions >>(SCC, MSX-Music, MSX-Audio)... > > This is just a speed up. (-: It doesn't generate garbage, and once you >switch back to 3.57, everythig is ok again. Well I certainly think it sounds like garbage. Especially when it switches back to 3.5MHz all the time. The thing I was talking about by the way is why they didn't output a 3.5MHz clock to the devices, it wouldn't be hard and cause insynchronization (???) since the clock speed is exactly the double. > When talking about FM this is not true. It generates real trash and sometimes >you need to turn off and on again so it can stop to generate that strange sounds. True. > I'm not concerned about speed up on sound. Just about real problems, like the > genereated by 7Mhz on FM. But I think Ademir has created a solution already. > I'm just waiting. The real solution is letting the engine control the timing, just like the turboR does. If you output a byte to a port, and then output another byte too fast after the first, the engine holds that byte and sends a wait signal to the processor until the preset wait-time expired. And indeed, it is annoying. I upgraded my MSX from 7MHz to "Advanced" 7MHz, and ever since the computer crashes when a song is played on the (Toshiba) Music Module at 7MHz. Before it only generated some 'misplaced' notes. But I think this is worse. But, I never liked the Music Module anywas. ~Grauw -- ><< email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit my homepage at http://grauw.blehq.org/ ><< Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also http://www.faq.msxnet.org/
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:22:09 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Not necessarily true. If I make the PSG generate a monotonic sound >(e.g by doing a couple of 'SOUND x,y' instructions in BASIC) and then switch >between 3.57 and 7.14MHz (so no information flowing between PSG and z80 at >that time!) the sound gets distorted too. Same holds for other music extensions >(SCC, MSX-Music, MSX-Audio)... This is just a speed up. (-: It doesn't generate garbage, and once you switch back to 3.57, everythig is ok again. When talking about FM this is not true. It generates real trash and sometimes you need to turn off and on again so it can stop to generate that strange sounds. I'm not concerned about speed up on sound. Just about real problems, like the genereated by 7Mhz on FM. But I think Ademir has created a solution already. I'm just waiting. - AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) /| | | |\ \| ___ |/ OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ \/ - \/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html | | MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ -- -- Drawings:http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ ...Programar e' a arte de organizar zeros e uns de forma que eles produzam trabalho util! Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also http://www.faq.msxnet.org/
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
Daniel Caetano wrote: [garbaged sound on 7MHz] > Only FM (YM2413) is affected by "garbage sound" on 7Mhz, because it cannot > cope with the "flood" of information sent to it by the program... if you > use the interruption to control the timing to send FM data, the problem > will disapear (just like happens on MicroCabin games, Valis 2, etc). Not necessarily true. If I make the PSG generate a monotonic sound (e.g by doing a couple of 'SOUND x,y' instructions in BASIC) and then switch between 3.57 and 7.14MHz (so no information flowing between PSG and z80 at that time!) the sound gets distorted too. Same holds for other music extensions (SCC, MSX-Music, MSX-Audio)... Eric Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also http://www.faq.msxnet.org/
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 21:57:14 +0200, Laurens Holst wrote: >It's really stupid, the music garbling up. >I mean, the clock speed is EXACTLY twice the speed of a 3.57MHz. The only >reason for this (and not using i.e. 8MHz) I can think of is to sync I/O at >3.5MHz. Only FM (YM2413) is affected by "garbage sound" on 7Mhz, because it cannot cope with the "flood" of information sent to it by the program... if you use the interruption to control the timing to send FM data, the problem will disapear (just like happens on MicroCabin games, Valis 2, etc). - AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) /| | | |\ \| ___ |/ OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ \/ - \/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html | | MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ -- -- Drawings:http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ ...Programar e' a arte de organizar zeros e uns de forma que eles produzam trabalho util! Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also http://www.faq.msxnet.org/
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
> > I was wondering how do games behave at 7.16 Mhz... > > Do they run at twice their normal speed? I doubt MSX > > games were programmed taking time loop variables in > > consideration. > > It depends. Lots of games are 'hooked' to the VDP timer interrupt so > you won't notice much of a speed up, there. Games that *don't* sync > on this (simulations, strategy games like chess) will speed up. > Music usually turns into garbage because the music chip can't > cope witht he higher clock speed. It's really stupid, the music garbling up. I mean, the clock speed is EXACTLY twice the speed of a 3.57MHz. The only reason for this (and not using i.e. 8MHz) I can think of is to sync I/O at 3.5MHz. But alas... It isn't the case. Anyways, I can surely say I can't live anymore without my 7MHz. Really. I can't stand the slowness of 3.5MHz. Terrible. Solid Snake also runs better (sometimes Snake is very slow... Solid Snail) (cool game, btw) (I mean both). By the way, do you know what's stupid??? Supplying an MSX-Audio cartridge with its own clock crystal, so the music doesn't get garbled up. It will garble up anyway, since the I/O is accessed too fast!!! Well, now I've got a spare crystal (yeehh). ~Grauw -- ><< email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit my homepage at http://grauw.blehq.org/ ><< Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also http://www.faq.msxnet.org/
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:08:12 -0700 (PDT), "ðiogo" Sperb Schneider wrote: >> Any special interest? > Yes, it was designed for the HotBit. ??? Do you really thinks Sharp developed its computer and its interface? (((^= > I was wondering how do games behave at 7.16 Mhz... Do >they run at twice their normal speed? I doubt MSX >games were programmed taking time loop variables in consideration. It will depends on the game, but I can change the computer speed even by software. My computer is dual (3.57/7.16) Mhz. But all I can say is: the better programmed games work at 7.16Mhz in normal speed, because they are timed by VDP interruption, which is always 60Hz (or 50Hz). P.e.: MicroCabin games runs great at 7.16Mhz. Even better than at 3.57Mhz (when several "slow downs" are presented to the user). Besides, harddisk access and general programs works simply great at 7Mhz. A dual machine is just the perfect solution to the speed problem. - AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) /| | | |\ \| ___ |/ OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ \/ - \/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html | | MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ -- -- Drawings:http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ ...Programar e' a arte de organizar zeros e uns de forma que eles produzam trabalho util! Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also http://www.faq.msxnet.org/
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
> I was wondering how do games behave at 7.16 Mhz... > Do they run at twice their normal speed? I doubt MSX > games were programmed taking time loop variables in > consideration. It depends. Lots of games are 'hooked' to the VDP timer interrupt so you won't notice much of a speed up, there. Games that *don't* sync on this (simulations, strategy games like chess) will speed up. Music usually turns into garbage because the music chip can't cope witht he higher clock speed. Eric -- .signature not found Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also http://www.faq.msxnet.org/
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
--- Daniel Jorge Caetano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 18:23:41 -0700 (PDT), "ðiogo" > Sperb Schneider wrote: > > Any special interest? Yes, it was designed for the HotBit. > Anyway, if you like to work at 3.57Mhz, and have a > computer > with a "MSX Engine" that have no replacement if case > of failure, > good luck! (-: I think it's nice run an original > MSX, but I > prefer my "Expert Case" running at 7Mhz, with my > drive and > SCSI HardDisk internal... (-: > > And it's really difficult live at 3.57Mhz after > running > at 7.16Mhz... (-: Even MSX Basic has great speed at > 7Mhz! (-: I was wondering how do games behave at 7.16 Mhz... Do they run at twice their normal speed? I doubt MSX games were programmed taking time loop variables in consideration. = __ Ðiogo Sperb Schneider - [EMAIL PROTECTED] See me @ http://www.geocities.com/enthusiast78 "When I say Van Halen I mean David Lee Roth!!" __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also http://www.faq.msxnet.org/
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 18:23:41 -0700 (PDT), "ðiogo" Sperb Schneider wrote: > Cool. But I'm really interested on a Sharp original >in this case. Any special interest? > Hmmm... Sounds like it could be put together in an >IBM cabinet... Right? Yes and no. Yes because you can place it on a "PC" cabinet, but no because it'll sux... (-: The board is designed to be attached to Expert case. Anyway, the ACE001 board (another board by Ademir) is designed to be installed on a PC cabinet. But hey... ACE002 will be a lot better... (-: And probably you'll be able to place it on a PC cabinet without effort. In fact, you will be able to place it inside you PC *keyboard*! (-: > I still think that a Sony MSX 2 is more "genuine". >Have you ever seen one even if by pictures? Looks great. The word "genuine" in MSX world is not something very "well-defined"... (-: There was no "real MSX" (maybe the original SpectraVideo?) but several computers based on the same specs. In fact, CIEL 2+ Turbo is entirely "inside" the standard... and has nice "enhancements" over it. Anyway, if you like to work at 3.57Mhz, and have a computer with a "MSX Engine" that have no replacement if case of failure, good luck! (-: I think it's nice run an original MSX, but I prefer my "Expert Case" running at 7Mhz, with my drive and SCSI HardDisk internal... (-: And it's really difficult live at 3.57Mhz after running at 7.16Mhz... (-: Even MSX Basic has great speed at 7Mhz! (-: - AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) /| | | |\ \| ___ |/ OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ \/ - \/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html | | MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ -- -- Drawings:http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ ...Programar e' a arte de organizar zeros e uns de forma que eles produzam trabalho util! MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
--- Daniel Jorge Caetano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ademir's one is a lot faster (is even faster than > PC > interfaces) Cool. But I'm really interested on a Sharp original in this case. > Yes, the box... -: I'm talking serious. Only > the Expert metal box is used. Everything else is > replaced, including the motherboard. Hmmm... Sounds like it could be put together in an IBM cabinet... Right? I still think that a Sony MSX 2 is more "genuine". Have you ever seen one even if by pictures? Looks great. = __ Ðiogo Sperb Schneider - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "When I say Van Halen I mean David Lee Roth!!" @ http://www.geocities.com/enthusiast78 __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
Ðiogo Sperb Schneider gravada: > Do you have the HotBit original interface? :) Yes, but not a spare one to sell :-( []s Werner MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:58:42 -0700 (PDT), "ðiogo" Sperb Schneider wrote: >> Do you wanna buy a Interface ? I have LOTS... > Do you have the HotBit original interface? :) Ademir's one is a lot faster (is even faster than PC interfaces) >> Do you know Expert 2+ with Turbo(7 MHz)/ FM / >> Mapper (4Mb) and Internal Slot Expander (4 slots) ? > Sounds cool, but it's still an Expert, right? :) Yes, the box... -: I'm talking serious. Only the Expert metal box is used. Everything else is replaced, including the motherboard. - AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) /| | | |\ \| ___ |/ OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ \/ - \/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html | | MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ -- -- Drawings:http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ ...Programar e' a arte de organizar zeros e uns de forma que eles produzam trabalho util! MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: Brazilian MSX Scene...
--- Werner Augusto Roder Kai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Do you wanna buy a Interface ? I have LOTS... Do you have the HotBit original interface? :) > Ademir Carchano has some RS-232 to sell. Hmmm... > Do you know Expert 2+ with Turbo(7 MHz)/ FM / > Mapper (4Mb) > and Internal Slot Expander (4 slots) ? Sounds cool, but it's still an Expert, right? :) > What ? So don't you know UZIX with TCP/IP stack > running > in any MSX2 with 256 Kb of mapper ? > Don't you know Fudebrowser ? Yes, I know about all of these! > Is it cold there in Mars ? > :-D I dunno, but here in RS it fuckin' is... :) Had to spill boiling water on my car's windows to get out today at morning... :) Later! = __ Ðiogo Sperb Schneider - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "When I say Van Halen I mean David Lee Roth!!" @ http://www.geocities.com/enthusiast78 __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Brazilian MSX Scene...
Ðiogo Sperb Schneider gravada: > cartridge (crowd chants). Not even a disk interface I > have. So you must agree that it has been very > complicated to stay up to date. Do you wanna buy a Interface ? I have LOTS... > I was planning on > upgrading that machine with some new stuff, like a > RS-232 interface to connect it to my Linux box, etc... Ademir Carchano has some RS-232 to sell. > But I've decided that any investment towards the MSX > would be done through a new system, prefferably a Sony > MSX 2 or something of such degree. Do you know Expert 2+ with Turbo(7 MHz)/ FM / Mapper (4Mb) and Internal Slot Expander (4 slots) ? > Hey, accessing the Internet through an MSX, specially > if running a UNIX-like OS is my dream, man!! :) > I'll try to stay tunned, I promise. What ? So don't you know UZIX with TCP/IP stack running in any MSX2 with 256 Kb of mapper ? Don't you know Fudebrowser ? Is it cold there in Mars ? :-D []s Werner MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
