Re: Anti-Spam !!!
Em Ter, 25 Jun 2002, Maarten ter Huurne escreveu: Second: Users who aren't on the list can't mail to the list I was against this before, but the spamming is getting pretty bad now, so I'll reconsider. Would anyone who has a problem with no longer being able to post from non-subscribed addresses please mail me personally? Depending on the number of objections we might decide to try and implement this. Here in Brazil, at MSXBR-L, non-subscribers can't post to the list, which is a nice way of blocking some mail viruses and a little spam. Yep, as manager of the MSXBR-L I've some problems regarding authorization of non-members' emails, like normal subscribers who forget to send messages using the original mail and sends by an alternative one. But it's better than spamming all over the 220 subscribers' e-mails. Third: If somebody starts spaming kill the user Killing is a bit too much, but shutting them up would be nice. However, I have no idea how to find out who the spammer is. Remember that the From: field is very easy to forge, most addresses either don't exist or are from innocent people. Yep, suspend'em. MSX mailing list still runs over majordomo, isn't it? Does anyone have ever thought about changing the whole mailing list to another list-server, like mailman? I'm using GNU Mailman with MSXBR-L and it sounds nice, all Web-driven (I can solve almost all problems using Mozilla). ByE! -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria It isn't a bug, it's a feature. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
Em Ter, 25 Jun 2002, Maarten ter Huurne escreveu: I have been subscribed to this list since 1994 and it existed before that. Does anyone actually know when the list was started? Maybe we can celebrate a 10-year anniversary in the not-too-distant future. /me 2, since May, 1994. Maybe we can think about a yearly IRC-party... =) -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria Frentista: Voce^ ainda sera' um. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 09:28:18PM +0200, David Heremans wrote: On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 06:53:53PM +0200, Mari van den Broek wrote: Second: Users who aren't on the list can't mail to the list Why shouldn't people who are not subscribed to the list not be able to send messages? It is just a suggestion but maybe all those unwanted mails could be redirected to a 'special mailbox' for Maarten and Wynke so that they could still approve some mails from not subscribed people. This could technically be a possibility... but I think this would cause rather long delays (Neither of us are able to be reading and sending on mail 24 hours a day). Also, I don't know how many people actually do send their mail from different addresses than they are subscribed from. I have a feeling that this might be quite a lot. Combined with something like spamassasin that gives spam-points to mail, it should be feasable to have real spam score more points (and autmatically delete it) then the not-so-real spam of not subscribed persons. This, sadly, is a little bit difficult. I know one machine at stack that spamassassin runs on right now. It works rather well, certainly, but it does not filter out *all* the spam. Moreover, I am quite certain that the mail managers would not be too happy to run SpamAssassin for the mailinglist, as it has been known to crash occasionally, in which case mail can get lost. Stack is encouraging the use of mailman for mailinglists. I will talk to Maarten and the Stack mail people and see if we can and should switch. It would certainly make things a lot easier to configure. Wynke. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
At 00:45 25-6-02 +0200, you wrote: I was against this before, but the spamming is getting pretty bad now, so I'll reconsider. Would anyone who has a problem with no longer being able to post from non-subscribed addresses please mail me personally? Depending on the number of objections we might decide to try and implement this. I think this should 'activate' people who are reading it 'from the outside' to participate in the discusion. They have two options IMO: 1. They agree with the fact the spam is going out of control and support the idea of closing the list for non-subscribers. To be able to post again they'd need to join the list. 2. They object against it resulting in possibly even more spam which may result in active people to leave the list. If we'd REALLY want to stop spam, the mailinglist archive on msxnet.org should be stopped and everybody should subscribe with another email address, since blocking is done on email addresses. That wouldn't be nice to the MSX-community, shutting it down in such a way. I have sent mails to abuse@ addresses of several ISPs in the past, but usually there is only an automated reply, sometimes not even that. It seems they just don't care. Pretty useful... setting up an email account to report abuse to and just leave it that. No action whatsoever when somebody IS reporting abuse, just an automated e-mail at most. GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 12:45:48AM +0200, Maarten ter Huurne wrote: On Monday 24 June 2002 23:56, eMeSiX wrote: First: Kill *ALL* HTML mail Filtering out !DOCTYPE and HTML should kill most HTML, but maybe not 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Content-Type: text/html should do the trick, shouldn't it? Note however that not all HTML mail is spam, there are users trying to post HTML as well. Most of that is multipart, which is blocked already (same filter which blocks Outlook worms). I would prefer all html mail blocked. Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
Mine name is vincent not jorge :-) - Original Message - From: d-fader [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:49 AM Subject: Re: Anti-Spam !!! Jorge: Just some stupid idea's to stop the spaming If the spamming doesn't stop in a moth i will quit the list. Maarten: Thank you for your suggestions. I cannot promise in what timeframe we will have anti-spam measures in place though. The MSX mailinglist is using the Stack infrastructure for free, so we cannot make hard demands, only ask nicely. There are various other lists using the same infrastructure; some changes might have to be system-wide and will therefore affect other lists as well. But we will do our best. Well.. If it can't be settled, then we just have to settle it for ourselves, I think almost anyone with a 24h inet connection is willing to serve the community... I even can run a spam-filtered-server that'll forward the messages sent to me e.g. We'll eventually arrange something Jorge, don't worry... Maybe someone can come up with some other ideas (cause as I read my ideas I come to the solution they suck :D)? d-fader -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
ooow... oopsie forgive me :) /me feels ashamed :) d-fader - Original Message - From: eMeSiX [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 5:36 PM Subject: Re: Anti-Spam !!! Mine name is vincent not jorge :-) - Original Message - From: d-fader [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:49 AM Subject: Re: Anti-Spam !!! Jorge: Just some stupid idea's to stop the spaming If the spamming doesn't stop in a moth i will quit the list. Maarten: Thank you for your suggestions. I cannot promise in what timeframe we will have anti-spam measures in place though. The MSX mailinglist is using the Stack infrastructure for free, so we cannot make hard demands, only ask nicely. There are various other lists using the same infrastructure; some changes might have to be system-wide and will therefore affect other lists as well. But we will do our best. Well.. If it can't be settled, then we just have to settle it for ourselves, I think almost anyone with a 24h inet connection is willing to serve the community... I even can run a spam-filtered-server that'll forward the messages sent to me e.g. We'll eventually arrange something Jorge, don't worry... Maybe someone can come up with some other ideas (cause as I read my ideas I come to the solution they suck :D)? d-fader -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
Hello... This mail is for the people who mantain the MSX List First: Kill *ALL* HTML mail I don't like it either, but some people can't resist to use HTML or even another format to send their mails in... Second: Users who aren't on the list can't mail to the list Why shouldn't people who are not subscribed to the list not be able to send messages? Third: If somebody starts spaming kill the user Nice try! Should we now kill you because the first reply you send on the spam message was as bad as the spam message itself (it only contained the text I vote for)... Just some stupid idea's to stop the spaming You're smart enouogh to see it ios stupid? If the spamming doesn't stop in a moth i will quit the list. Start by deleting the spamm-messages you recieve, but before you do that, send the original message-header to SpamCop or another group of people who can take the appropriate actions to stop these people! For example, my ISP is using a blocklist to filter these kind of messages before they arrive at the costumer (me!)... --[ MARI ]-- -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
yeah, I proposed the white list stuff eMeSiX wrote: Mine name is vincent not jorge :-) - Original Message - From: d-fader [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:49 AM Subject: Re: Anti-Spam !!! Jorge: Just some stupid idea's to stop the spaming If the spamming doesn't stop in a moth i will quit the list. Maarten: Thank you for your suggestions. I cannot promise in what timeframe we will have anti-spam measures in place though. The MSX mailinglist is using the Stack infrastructure for free, so we cannot make hard demands, only ask nicely. There are various other lists using the same infrastructure; some changes might have to be system-wide and will therefore affect other lists as well. But we will do our best. Well.. If it can't be settled, then we just have to settle it for ourselves, I think almost anyone with a 24h inet connection is willing to serve the community... I even can run a spam-filtered-server that'll forward the messages sent to me e.g. We'll eventually arrange something Jorge, don't worry... Maybe someone can come up with some other ideas (cause as I read my ideas I come to the solution they suck :D)? d-fader -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
On 2002.06.25 00:45 Maarten ter Huurne wrote: Note however that not all HTML mail is spam, there are users trying to post HTML as well. And they shouldn't :-) HTML adds *nothing* to the content of someone's mail. Second: Users who aren't on the list can't mail to the list I was against this before, but the spamming is getting pretty bad now, so I'll reconsider. Would anyone who has a problem with no longer being able to post from non-subscribed addresses please mail me personally? Depending on the number of objections we might decide to try and implement this. I don't object, but I recall from discussions on this very same topic in the past, that the main reason *not* to implement this form of spam-block, was that one person should be able to use several accounts (e.g. a regular ISP and some webmail client). This could be solved in several ways: - make someone with multiple account subscribe for every account he/she has. Not ideal, but easy to implement :-) - allow 'mail aliases'. If a person subscribes, he/she can enter several e-mail addresses. The mailing list server should only send/forward mail to 1 address, but accept mail from all in the list. just my 2 cents, Eric -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
On 2002.06.25 13:10 Sean Young wrote: On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 12:45:48AM +0200, Maarten ter Huurne wrote: On Monday 24 June 2002 23:56, eMeSiX wrote: First: Kill *ALL* HTML mail Filtering out !DOCTYPE and HTML should kill most HTML, but maybe not 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Content-Type: text/html should do the trick, shouldn't it? Not really. Even if the Content-Type says important/stuff and the message starts with HTML, some mail clients (which shall remain nameless) will render all the HTML, including horrid javascript inside, I guess. Eric -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 06:53:53PM +0200, Mari van den Broek wrote: Second: Users who aren't on the list can't mail to the list Why shouldn't people who are not subscribed to the list not be able to send messages? It is just a suggestion but maybe all those unwanted mails could be redirected to a 'special mailbox' for Maarten and Wynke so that they could still approve some mails from not subscribed people. Combined with something like spamassasin that gives spam-points to mail, it should be feasable to have real spam score more points (and autmatically delete it) then the not-so-real spam of not subscribed persons. David -- openMSX - the open source MSX emulator that aims for perfection http://openmsx.sf.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
we should make some sort of white list.Set up an account to which the people that want to be included in that whote list should mail, to get in... (we did that here, in a newsgroup about sex, to avoid the obvious tons of spam that would come) best regards, Me. eMeSiX wrote: This mail is for the people who mantain the MSX List First: Kill *ALL* HTML mail Second: Users who aren't on the list can't mail to the list Third: If somebody starts spaming kill the user Just some stupid idea's to stop the spaming If the spamming doesn't stop in a moth i will quit the list. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
On Monday 24 June 2002 23:56, eMeSiX wrote: This mail is for the people who mantain the MSX List That is me and Wynke. I'm speaking only for myself in this mail. First: Kill *ALL* HTML mail Filtering out !DOCTYPE and HTML should kill most HTML, but maybe not 100%. Note however that not all HTML mail is spam, there are users trying to post HTML as well. Most of that is multipart, which is blocked already (same filter which blocks Outlook worms). Second: Users who aren't on the list can't mail to the list I was against this before, but the spamming is getting pretty bad now, so I'll reconsider. Would anyone who has a problem with no longer being able to post from non-subscribed addresses please mail me personally? Depending on the number of objections we might decide to try and implement this. Third: If somebody starts spaming kill the user Killing is a bit too much, but shutting them up would be nice. However, I have no idea how to find out who the spammer is. Remember that the From: field is very easy to forge, most addresses either don't exist or are from innocent people. I have sent mails to abuse addresses of several ISPs in the past, but usually there is only an automated reply, sometimes not even that. It seems they just don't care. Just some stupid idea's to stop the spaming If the spamming doesn't stop in a moth i will quit the list. Thank you for your suggestions. I cannot promise in what timeframe we will have anti-spam measures in place though. The MSX mailinglist is using the Stack infrastructure for free, so we cannot make hard demands, only ask nicely. There are various other lists using the same infrastructure; some changes might have to be system-wide and will therefore affect other lists as well. But we will do our best. Bye, Maarten -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
Jorge: Just some stupid idea's to stop the spaming If the spamming doesn't stop in a moth i will quit the list. Maarten: Thank you for your suggestions. I cannot promise in what timeframe we will have anti-spam measures in place though. The MSX mailinglist is using the Stack infrastructure for free, so we cannot make hard demands, only ask nicely. There are various other lists using the same infrastructure; some changes might have to be system-wide and will therefore affect other lists as well. But we will do our best. Well.. If it can't be settled, then we just have to settle it for ourselves, I think almost anyone with a 24h inet connection is willing to serve the community... I even can run a spam-filtered-server that'll forward the messages sent to me e.g. We'll eventually arrange something Jorge, don't worry... Maybe someone can come up with some other ideas (cause as I read my ideas I come to the solution they suck :D)? d-fader -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Anti-Spam !!!
On Tuesday 25 June 2002 00:49, d-fader wrote: Well.. If it can't be settled, then we just have to settle it for ourselves, I think almost anyone with a 24h inet connection is willing to serve the community... I even can run a spam-filtered-server that'll forward the messages sent to me e.g. We'll eventually arrange something Jorge, don't worry... I don't expect problems getting anti-spam measures installed at Stack, I just wanted to state that the matter is not completely in my hands. Therefore negotiation is required and that can take some time. So I cannot promise that we can block 100% of the spam or that we can do so within a month. I only promise to do my best to filter out more spam than right now. I think the MSX mailinglist runs pretty good at Stack, so I would prefer to keep it there. They have reasonably reliable infrastructure (more reliable than many ISPs, in any case) and they can use the network under a very broad definition of fair use. I don't think it's possible to run a mailinglist this reliable from a standard cable/ADSL internet account, where you may have an ISP that gives you a dynamic IP address, limits your traffic, forbids you to run servers, goes bankrupt or doesn't provide service if you move to a different area. I have been subscribed to this list since 1994 and it existed before that. Does anyone actually know when the list was started? Maybe we can celebrate a 10-year anniversary in the not-too-distant future. Bye, Maarten -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
