Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Amit Ramon]

On 2017-04-26, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> On 2017-04-26, Will Yardley  wrote:
[...]



> If there was a simple way to get mutt to auto-magically do that to
> create a multipart/alternative text and HTML message body, that
> wouldn't be that bad an option.  Though I'd probably use  rather
> than , since  is less fragile.


[...]


> > I also wouldn't be too averse to setting up some sort of scheme for
> running a message body thought asciidoc or rst to produce HTML and
> plaintext multipart alternative.

The solution I settled (and have been using for a couple weeks now) is
to use mutt's 'sendmail' configuration setting to pipe outgoing mail
to the 'muttdown' utility


I didn't know about muttdown, but I actually developed a similar
system:

https://github.com/amitramon/plainMail2HTML

I developed it specifically for Mutt, the README explains my
motivation. What it does, in short, is replacing Mutt's sendmail
command with a tool that reads the message generated by Mutt, parse
the text/plain part with a rst parser (that can easily be replaced by
a different parser), create and add to the message a text/html part,
then send it as usual.

I hope you find it useful.

Cheers,

Amit

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-04-26, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> On 2017-04-26, Will Yardley  wrote:
[...]
>>> > > Is there anything one can do when sending a plain text e-mail message
>>> > > to tell GUI-based MUAs that they should display it in a fixed font?
[...]
>> Send in HTML with the  tag? /ducks

Well, that's actually what I do now.  ;)

> If there was a simple way to get mutt to auto-magically do that to
> create a multipart/alternative text and HTML message body, that
> wouldn't be that bad an option.  Though I'd probably use  rather
> than , since  is less fragile.
>
> I also wouldn't be too averse to setting up some sort of scheme for
> running a message body thought asciidoc or rst to produce HTML and
> plaintext multipart alternative.

The solution I settled (and have been using for a couple weeks now) is
to use mutt's 'sendmail' configuration setting to pipe outgoing mail
to the 'muttdown' utility which will look for text-plain parts and add
an alterntive html version by formatting them with markdown (if the
body part begins with !m) or escape them and enclose them in a
 tag (if the body part begins with !p).  I tried using
, but Gmail doesn't support it.

If a text-plain body part doesn't begin with either !m or !p, then it
is sent untouched.

The sources for my enhanced version of muttdown are here:

  https://github.com/GrantEdwards/muttdown/tree/work

My enhancements over the original muttdown are:

 * Fix bug in handling or exit code from external sendmail.

 * Load user-configurable muttdown extensions.

 * Add !p sigil which encloses everything in 

 * Only remove the first !p or !m sigil before converting to HTML.

 * Add option to remove sigil from plaintext alternate.

 * Make "-c" optional.

 * Restructure code so you can run main.py directly without doing an a
   "python setup.py install".

 * Add  tags around the whole message to enable 'global'
   CSS settings that you want to apply to everything.

One thing I'd still like to do is to add NTLM auth support to the SMTP
client code that's built in to muttdown.  Currently, I have to
configure muttdown to pipe the outgoing mail to msmtp (which knows how
to do NTLM auth).

It would be a lot cleaner if mutt provided some sort of
sendmail-filter-hook that would allow you to specify an external
command that could be use as a filter on the outgoing message (headers
and all) just before it is sent...

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Are you mentally here
  at   at Pizza Hut??
  gmail.com

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-04-28, Greg Hurrell  wrote:

> I decided to set 'textwidth' to 0 in Vim, which means my emails have
> long lines in them (gasp!) and mutt will automatically use quoted
> printable to format them,

OK, how do you get mutt to do that?

It doesn't work for me, and I can't find it mentioned anywhere in the
docs.  All of the messages I compose with 1-long-line-per paragraph is
still sent by mutt as text/plain.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! I always have fun
  at   because I'm out of my
  gmail.commind!!!

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Derek Martin]

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 09:23:57AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> >mutt is a *text* application, not markup/markdown/html/css/  the way
> >you define text on *your* system is what you get, not what is sent or what
> >you send.
> 
> Actually, mutt DOES have some support for more than text/plain.

FWIW, Patrick didn't say text/plain, he said text.

> If a message is in text/enriched type, mutt knows how to render that
> to the terminal. 

Rendering in Mutt is not the point...  It's generation of text with a
particular rendering on the receiving end.

But since you brought it up, I believe RTF is a dead standard, and
IIRC only a handful of mail clients support it.  If so it's not a
generalized solution...  And even Mutt's support for it does not
include *generating* it... that requires you to create the document in
your editor and tell Mutt (explicitly or by file extension) that the
file is rich text, when you attach it to your message.

> I can see that a sufficiently motivated developer could add, say, a
> markdown parser there just as easily (or if markdown is too vague,
> something as safely-defined as text/enriched).

Aside from being beside the point, don't put that in Mutt--that's what
MIME is for.

> To me, the larger hurdle is writing messages in a markup language.

It's not a hurdle--it just isn't Mutt's job.  Lots of things can
format markup, including your editor, which is where your e-mail
messages generally are composed...

> Is there any method in mutt to cope with the fact that $EDITOR has
> just passed it something other than text/plain (that is, some method
> OTHER than ^T on the compose screen)?

Yes, it's called MIME.  Save your document with an appropriate file
name and extension, and attach it to your message.  That's how this is
SUPPOSED to work... and it does.

For what it's worth, I sympathize with the ask here.  I've long wanted
to be able to do very basic formatting in e-mail messages--mostly just 
bold and italics, with perhaps the occasional alignment.  But long ago
the industry decided to use HTML for this, and it's now ubiquitous, so
you should probably just do that.  But if you want to do that with
Mutt, you still need to compose the HTML yourself, save it, and attach
it to your message.  Or, you could put the HTML right in your message
body, and then change the type from the attachment view.  I did
actually just test that, and it does work...  Although it made me
realize that I've all but forgotten HTML. =8^)

-- 
Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/   GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02
-=-=-=-=-
This message is posted from an invalid address.  Replying to it will result in
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Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Ed Blackman]

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 02:16:08PM +, Grant Edwards wrote:
> So how, in the editor, do you tell Mutt that you've created a
> multipart alternative body?

Arrange for the editor to return a MIME message?  Right now if you set 
edit_headers and manual compose a MIME message, mutt wipes out the MIME 
headers and leaves the MIME parts as garbage in the single text/plain 
part.

But if mutt would examine the message returned from $editor to see 
whether it's a MIME message, and leave the structure intact if so, that 
would be a cheap way of allowing people to hook their own MIME 
composition systems in.  People could set $editor to "markdown_mime 
/path/to/real/editor %s" which would call the editor with what mutt 
passes, but create a MIME structure with the result before handing it 
back to mutt.

There's some complexity around what to do if $edit_headers is no (look 
for a minimal MIME structure with only the MIME headers and parts?), how 
to handle reedits (pass just the text/plain part back to $editor?  pass 
the whole thing including MIME parts?), etc, but better than overloading 
$sendmail.

-- 
Ed Blackman

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Ed Blackman]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 06:36:42PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> Impressive. Works well in mutt, too. But when it comes time to reply to
> such niftiness, we might be better off hard wrapping it, to restore the
> plaintext quoting - at least when multiple authors are quoted, or we
> won't know what was written by Arthur, Martha, or Mo.
> (Maybe the GUI world doesn't fuss much with attribution?)

The GUI world largely doesn't do trimmed inline replies.  They top-post 
without trimming.

-- 
Ed Blackman

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 28.04.17 13:22, Greg Hurrell wrote:
> Fun fact, pretty much every message in this thread looks terrible in Google 
> Inbox on iOS (and presumably Gmail on iOS) because the lines are all 
> hard-wrapped but too long to fit on the screen, leading to alternating long 
> (soft-wrapped) and short (hard-wrapped) lines. Looks nice in mutt, of course, 
> but less than 1% of the people I exchange email with are using that, so I 
> decided to set 'textwidth' to 0 in Vim, which means my emails have long lines 
> in them (gasp!) and mutt will automatically use quoted printable to format 
> them, which looks decent pretty much everywhere:

Impressive. Works well in mutt, too. But when it comes time to reply to
such niftiness, we might be better off hard wrapping it, to restore the
plaintext quoting - at least when multiple authors are quoted, or we
won't know what was written by Arthur, Martha, or Mo.
(Maybe the GUI world doesn't fuss much with attribution?)

Erik

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Greg Hurrell]

Grant Edwards wrote:

> So how, in the editor, do you tell Mutt that you've created a
> multipart alternative body?

I use a sendmail hook for this:

https://github.com/wincent/wincent/blob/1e690483e5dd8/roles/dotfiles/files/.mutt/config/hooks.mutt#L19

This pipes the mail through this wrapper script, which creates a multipart 
message if the body starts or ends with "!m" (the "m" here stands for Markdown):

https://github.com/wincent/wincent/blob/1e690483e5dd8/roles/dotfiles/files/.mutt/scripts/msmtp.rb

Fun fact, pretty much every message in this thread looks terrible in Google 
Inbox on iOS (and presumably Gmail on iOS) because the lines are all 
hard-wrapped but too long to fit on the screen, leading to alternating long 
(soft-wrapped) and short (hard-wrapped) lines. Looks nice in mutt, of course, 
but less than 1% of the people I exchange email with are using that, so I 
decided to set 'textwidth' to 0 in Vim, which means my emails have long lines 
in them (gasp!) and mutt will automatically use quoted printable to format 
them, which looks decent pretty much everywhere:

https://github.com/wincent/wincent/blob/1e690483e5dd8/roles/dotfiles/files/.vim/after/ftplugin/mail.vim

Cheers,
Greg

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-04-28, Erik Christiansen  wrote:
> On 27.04.17 09:21, Darac Marjal wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 08:54:45PM +, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> > OK, so how does one do that within mutt?
>> 
>> I would suggest that the most prudent approach is to use a lightweight
>> markup language (LML). LMLs tend to be designed such that, while they
>> CAN be rendered into a presentation form, the source code is also
>> (relatively) legible.
>> 
>> So, let's say I wanted to write something in bold.
>
> Ahem, message composition is performed in the editor, either vim or
> emacs for the majority of mutt users, I expect. And vim is
> latex-friendly (Try :help latex). Then there's the vim-markdown plugin
> if that's preferred.
>
> Either way, format faffing is exclusively editor work. It has nothing
> to do with the lid on the SMTP pipe - the MUA. That deals with composed
> messages - it should not recompose them in transit.

So how, in the editor, do you tell Mutt that you've created a
multipart alternative body?

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! CHUBBY CHECKER just
  at   had a CHICKEN SANDWICH in
  gmail.comdowntown DULUTH!

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-04-28, Darac Marjal  wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 03:46:14PM -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>
>>*attaching* it *is* the way "_winthin_ _mutt_".
>>
>>mutt is a *text* application, not markup/markdown/html/css/  the way
>>you define text on *your* system is what you get, not what is sent or what
>>you send.
>
> Actually, mutt DOES have some support for more than text/plain. If a
> message is in text/enriched type, mutt knows how to render that to the
> terminal. I can see that a sufficiently motivated developer could add,
> say, a markdown parser there just as easily (or if markdown is too
> vague, something as safely-defined as text/enriched).

I don't have an need for rendering messages that isn't already taken
care of by the mailcap support.

> To me, the larger hurdle is writing messages in a markup language.

Exactly.

> Is there any method in mutt to cope with the fact that $EDITOR has
> just passed it something other than text/plain (that is, some method
> OTHER than ^T on the compose screen)?

One option that would be nice would simply be the ability the convert
a plaintext body into multipart-alternative containing the plaintext
version and an HTML version comprising nothing but the plaintext
message between   tags.

Another nice option would be support for running the text/plain body
through markdown/RST/asciidoc in order to produce the html
alternative.

Unfortunately, other MUA's support for simple text/plain is getting
worse and worse.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Hello, GORRY-O!!
  at   I'm a GENIUS from HARVARD!!
  gmail.com

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 27.04.17 09:21, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 08:54:45PM +, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > OK, so how does one do that within mutt?
> 
> I would suggest that the most prudent approach is to use a lightweight
> markup language (LML). LMLs tend to be designed such that, while they
> CAN be rendered into a presentation form, the source code is also
> (relatively) legible.
> 
> So, let's say I wanted to write something in bold.

Ahem, message composition is performed in the editor, either vim or
emacs for the majority of mutt users, I expect. And vim is
latex-friendly (Try :help latex). Then there's the vim-markdown plugin
if that's preferred.

Either way, format faffing is exclusively editor work. It has nothing
to do with the lid on the SMTP pipe - the MUA. That deals with composed
messages - it should not recompose them in transit.

> In HTML that could be bold LaTeX, it would be \textbf{bold}. But in markdown, it's simply
> **bold**.
> 
> A good LML would have a MIME type associated with it (I see that
> markdown does, but reStructuredText doesn't, for example), so it can
> either be viewed (as source) in the pager or rendered (as presentation
> form) by a mailcap entry.

Is it necessary to send the body as an attachment in order to awaken
that mime stuff? 

When I had to pretty-font a report for management over a decade ago, I
composed it in vim, then performed a fontification in openoffice, and
gave them a M$-compatible attachment. Problem fixed.

Erik

-- 
HTML is not email, and email doesn't contain HTML, so please turn HTML
formatting OFF in your email client. We have filters in place that will
reject your message if your posting contains HTML.
   - http://gpl-violations.org/mailinglists.html

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Darac Marjal]

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 03:46:14PM -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Grant Edwards  [04-27-17 11:21]:

On 2017-04-27, Darac Marjal  wrote:
>
>>OK, so how does one do that within mutt?
>
> I would suggest that the most prudent approach is to use a lightweight
> markup language (LML). LMLs tend to be designed such that, while they
> CAN be rendered into a presentation form, the source code is also
> (relatively) legible.
>
> So, let's say I wanted to write something in bold. In HTML that could be
>bold \textbf{bold}. But in markdown, it's simply **bold**.

Yes, I've been using Tex/LaTeX for 25+ years, various roff flavors for
30+ years, as well as asciidoc, markdown, and re-strucutred text for
not-quite-as-many years.

> A good LML would have a MIME type associated with it (I see that
> markdown does, but reStructuredText doesn't, for example), so it can
> either be viewed (as source) in the pager or rendered (as presentation
> form) by a mailcap entry.

The question was how to do it _within_ _mutt_ instead of preparing an
HTML or PDF file externally and attaching it.


*attaching* it *is* the way "_winthin_ _mutt_".

mutt is a *text* application, not markup/markdown/html/css/  the way
you define text on *your* system is what you get, not what is sent or what
you send.


Actually, mutt DOES have some support for more than text/plain. If a
message is in text/enriched type, mutt knows how to render that to the
terminal. I can see that a sufficiently motivated developer could add,
say, a markdown parser there just as easily (or if markdown is too
vague, something as safely-defined as text/enriched).

To me, the larger hurdle is writing messages in a markup language. Is
there any method in mutt to cope with the fact that $EDITOR has just
passed it something other than text/plain (that is, some method OTHER
than ^T on the compose screen)?



--
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo@ http://linuxcounter.net


--
For more information, please reread.


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Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Jörg Sommer]

Grant Edwards hat am Do 27. Apr, 20:04 (+) geschrieben:
> On 2017-04-27, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
> > * Grant Edwards  [04-27-17 11:21]:
> >> On 2017-04-27, Darac Marjal  wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>OK, so how does one do that within mutt?
> >> >
> >> > I would suggest that the most prudent approach is to use a lightweight
> >> > markup language (LML). LMLs tend to be designed such that, while they
> >> > CAN be rendered into a presentation form, the source code is also
> >> > (relatively) legible.
> 
> [...]
> 
> >> The question was how to do it _within_ _mutt_ instead of preparing an
> >> HTML or PDF file externally and attaching it.
> >
> > *attaching* it *is* the way "_winthin_ _mutt_".

> But it would be cleaner if there was a way within mutt to run the
> message body through such a filter to convert it into
> multipart-alternative.

That's my question, too. I thought of using the Attach pseudo header to
append the "pretty" output. The editor could run markdown or latex on
leaving and add the Attach: header with the file name. This has some flaws
like the temporary file don't get removed or running it multiple times
adds multiple attachments.

Any better ideas?

Jörg


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Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-04-27, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
> * Grant Edwards  [04-27-17 11:21]:
>> On 2017-04-27, Darac Marjal  wrote:
>> >
>> >>OK, so how does one do that within mutt?
>> >
>> > I would suggest that the most prudent approach is to use a lightweight
>> > markup language (LML). LMLs tend to be designed such that, while they
>> > CAN be rendered into a presentation form, the source code is also
>> > (relatively) legible.

[...]

>> The question was how to do it _within_ _mutt_ instead of preparing an
>> HTML or PDF file externally and attaching it.
>
> *attaching* it *is* the way "_winthin_ _mutt_".

I was thinking more along the lines of this:

  https://github.com/Roguelazer/muttdown

But it would be cleaner if there was a way within mutt to run the
message body through such a filter to convert it into
multipart-alternative.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! When you get your
  at   PH.D. will you get able to
  gmail.comwork at BURGER KING?

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Grant Edwards  [04-27-17 11:21]:
> On 2017-04-27, Darac Marjal  wrote:
> >
> >>OK, so how does one do that within mutt?
> >
> > I would suggest that the most prudent approach is to use a lightweight
> > markup language (LML). LMLs tend to be designed such that, while they
> > CAN be rendered into a presentation form, the source code is also
> > (relatively) legible.
> >
> > So, let's say I wanted to write something in bold. In HTML that could be
> >bold > \textbf{bold}. But in markdown, it's simply **bold**. 
> 
> Yes, I've been using Tex/LaTeX for 25+ years, various roff flavors for
> 30+ years, as well as asciidoc, markdown, and re-strucutred text for
> not-quite-as-many years.
> 
> > A good LML would have a MIME type associated with it (I see that
> > markdown does, but reStructuredText doesn't, for example), so it can
> > either be viewed (as source) in the pager or rendered (as presentation
> > form) by a mailcap entry.
> 
> The question was how to do it _within_ _mutt_ instead of preparing an
> HTML or PDF file externally and attaching it.

*attaching* it *is* the way "_winthin_ _mutt_".

mutt is a *text* application, not markup/markdown/html/css/  the way
you define text on *your* system is what you get, not what is sent or what
you send.

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535  
  
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo@ http://linuxcounter.net

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-04-27, Darac Marjal  wrote:
>
>>OK, so how does one do that within mutt?
>
> I would suggest that the most prudent approach is to use a lightweight
> markup language (LML). LMLs tend to be designed such that, while they
> CAN be rendered into a presentation form, the source code is also
> (relatively) legible.
>
> So, let's say I wanted to write something in bold. In HTML that could be
>bold \textbf{bold}. But in markdown, it's simply **bold**. 

Yes, I've been using Tex/LaTeX for 25+ years, various roff flavors for
30+ years, as well as asciidoc, markdown, and re-strucutred text for
not-quite-as-many years.

> A good LML would have a MIME type associated with it (I see that
> markdown does, but reStructuredText doesn't, for example), so it can
> either be viewed (as source) in the pager or rendered (as presentation
> form) by a mailcap entry.

The question was how to do it _within_ _mutt_ instead of preparing an
HTML or PDF file externally and attaching it.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! When this load is
  at   DONE I think I'll wash it
  gmail.comAGAIN ...

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 08:54:45PM +, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2017-04-26, Matthias Apitz  wrote:

El día miércoles, abril 26, 2017 a las 07:18:30p. m. +, Grant Edwards 
escribió:


> Why should a sender of txt mail be worried about how Gmail or any other
> MUA is rendering a txt mail? Isn't this the responsibility of the user
> of the other MUA to configure it (the font) correctly?

When I send an e-mail it is because I have a desire to convey some
sort of information to the recipient.  Sending an email that the user
will find illegible does not accomplish that goal.


Any normal text mail will be readable, even with non-fixed fonts;
perhaps what you want is


What I want is mainly to be able to include small tables of data.


(when I see, for example, your signature) give your text some
structure in the layout, like tables etc. which is not what text is
for. You should use any formatting language, like HTML or Latex or
groff.


OK, so how does one do that within mutt?


I would suggest that the most prudent approach is to use a lightweight
markup language (LML). LMLs tend to be designed such that, while they
CAN be rendered into a presentation form, the source code is also
(relatively) legible.

So, let's say I wanted to write something in bold. In HTML that could be
bold\textbf{bold}. But in markdown, it's simply **bold**. 


A good LML would have a MIME type associated with it (I see that
markdown does, but reStructuredText doesn't, for example), so it can
either be viewed (as source) in the pager or rendered (as presentation
form) by a mailcap entry.



--
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Should I get locked
 at   in the PRINCICAL'S
 gmail.comOFFICE today -- or have
  a VASECTOMY??



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Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Matthias Apitz]

El día miércoles, abril 26, 2017 a las 08:54:45p. m. +, Grant Edwards 
escribió:

> What I want is mainly to be able to include small tables of data.
> 
> > (when I see, for example, your signature) give your text some
> > structure in the layout, like tables etc. which is not what text is
> > for. You should use any formatting language, like HTML or Latex or
> > groff.
> 
> OK, so how does one do that within mutt?

You can't do this within mutt. You can do it with whatever tool which
fits your needs and knowledge and send the result as an attachment with
mutt.

matthias
-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎ 
+49-176-38902045
Aus "Nie wieder Krieg!" wurde "Nie wieder Krieg ohne Deutschlands Truppen"
The "No wars anymore!" changed now to "No wars anymore without German battle 
groups!"
El "¡Nunca jamás guerra!" ha cambiado a "¡Nunca jamás guerra sin tropas 
alemanas!" 

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Grant Edwards  [04-26-17 16:59]:
> On 2017-04-26, Matthias Apitz  wrote:
> > El día miércoles, abril 26, 2017 a las 07:18:30p. m. +, Grant Edwards 
> > escribió:
> >
> >> > Why should a sender of txt mail be worried about how Gmail or any other
> >> > MUA is rendering a txt mail? Isn't this the responsibility of the user
> >> > of the other MUA to configure it (the font) correctly?
> >> 
> >> When I send an e-mail it is because I have a desire to convey some
> >> sort of information to the recipient.  Sending an email that the user
> >> will find illegible does not accomplish that goal.
> >
> > Any normal text mail will be readable, even with non-fixed fonts;
> > perhaps what you want is
> 
> What I want is mainly to be able to include small tables of data.
 
*you* can include tables of data within your post formatted as *you*
desire, but those viewing will see as they have configured their systems
w/o regard to your desires provided you mail text (after all, that is
email, text).

other than that, you must send markup, or attach files such as
pdf/html/jpg...


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Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-04-26, Matthias Apitz  wrote:
> El día miércoles, abril 26, 2017 a las 07:18:30p. m. +, Grant Edwards 
> escribió:
>
>> > Why should a sender of txt mail be worried about how Gmail or any other
>> > MUA is rendering a txt mail? Isn't this the responsibility of the user
>> > of the other MUA to configure it (the font) correctly?
>> 
>> When I send an e-mail it is because I have a desire to convey some
>> sort of information to the recipient.  Sending an email that the user
>> will find illegible does not accomplish that goal.
>
> Any normal text mail will be readable, even with non-fixed fonts;
> perhaps what you want is

What I want is mainly to be able to include small tables of data.

> (when I see, for example, your signature) give your text some
> structure in the layout, like tables etc. which is not what text is
> for. You should use any formatting language, like HTML or Latex or
> groff.

OK, so how does one do that within mutt?

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Should I get locked
  at   in the PRINCICAL'S
  gmail.comOFFICE today -- or have
   a VASECTOMY??

Re: How to tell GUI MUAs to show message in a fixed font?

[Matthias Apitz]

El día miércoles, abril 26, 2017 a las 07:18:30p. m. +, Grant Edwards 
escribió:

> > Why should a sender of txt mail be worried about how Gmail or any other
> > MUA is rendering a txt mail? Isn't this the responsibility of the user
> > of the other MUA to configure it (the font) correctly?
> 
> When I send an e-mail it is because I have a desire to convey some
> sort of information to the recipient.  Sending an email that the user
> will find illegible does not accomplish that goal.

Any normal text mail will be readable, even with non-fixed fonts;
perhaps what you want is (when I see, for example, your signature) give
your text some structure in the layout, like tables etc. which is not
what text is for. You should use any formatting language, like HTML or
Latex or groff.

> > And something you as the sender should worry about: your signature
> > contains unnecessary blanks in the text :-)
> 
> ...
> 
> 2) I don't really care whether my signature is readible or not.  :)

The issue is not about readable, it's about wasting bandwidth with such
blanks in the lines to make some picture out of text, which at the end
of the day will not work in other MUA, as you know.

matthias
-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎ 
+49-176-38902045
Aus "Nie wieder Krieg!" wurde "Nie wieder Krieg ohne Deutschlands Truppen"
The "No wars anymore!" changed now to "No wars anymore without German battle 
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El "¡Nunca jamás guerra!" ha cambiado a "¡Nunca jamás guerra sin tropas 
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