Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Bill Notfaded]

I kinda like all lower case... But I'm a xnix guy so...

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Bill Notfaded]

I'm still looking for one of you power PCB's Robin.  This is notfaded1 from 
your project.

Bill

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Mac Doktor]

> On Apr 26, 2019, at 1:11 PM, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.  
> wrote:
> 
> Happy to hear all this response and interest! I wasn't expecting that. Now 
> i'm feeling like i really want to do this project and start to make a concept 
> on how to store the data :) And yes, Nixiebase is a very nice name!

"NixieBase" (capital B). It looks fancier. 

We could casually refer to it as "TheNB". Alliteration makes it roll off the 
tongue nicely and those not bitten by the bug won't know what we're talking 
about. 8D


> On Apr 26, 2019, at 1:44 PM, robin bussell  wrote:
> 
> I don't really want to put the URL anywhere publicly searchable and risk what 
> used to be called a slashdotting as the server is just a little old raspberry 
> pi :)

Now there's an expression I haven't heard in a long time.


"By the end of Chuck Statler's 'Rock Videos' of Devo we agreed that even if 
Devo did not take the stage it was still the best concert any of us had ever 
attended." --Kim Thayil (Soundgarden), 1995

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[robin bussell]

On 26/04/2019 09:16, Nathan Diniz wrote:

We should have an animated B-7971 display showing the motto and some unique 
font that shows the logo. It might be a bit much, but it is an idea.

I can offer up the services of @NixieBot if anyone wants to make some 
animated GIF B7971 banners, it now has a secret HTTP interface, so you 
don't need to faff about with twitter, and you get higher quality 
results too :) I can also arrange for suitable lighting conditions when 
time comes for the final rendering.


Email me off list for the low down on using it, I don't really want to 
put the URL anywhere publicly searchable and risk what used to be called 
a slashdotting as the server is just a little old raspberry pi :)


Cheers,
 Robin.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Nathan Diniz]

We should have an animated B-7971 display showing the motto and some unique 
font that shows the logo. It might be a bit much, but it is an idea. 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Bill Notfaded]

nixiebase works...

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Bill Notfaded]

Makes me think "All your base are belong to us"...  And that's some serious 
retro stuff when you go there...


"All your base are belong to us" was a popular Internet meme based on a broken 
English phrase found in the opening cutscene of the 1992 Mega Drive port of the 
1989 arcade video game Zero Wing. The quote comes from the European release of 
the game, featuring poor English translations of the original Japanese version.

All your "Nixiebase are belong to us"... Whoa that's some heavy geek stuff 
right there!

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Mac Doktor]

> On Apr 25, 2019, at 9:29 PM, martin martin  wrote:
> 
> I vote for NixieBase . It needs a logo.  I suggest the original Burroughs 
> front view.  Maybe even animated?

I can vectorize a bitmapped image if anyone has something suitable.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[martin martin]

I vote for NixieBase . It needs a logo.  I suggest the original Burroughs
front view.  Maybe even animated?



On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 6:26 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:

> Before going any further, what shall we call this project? "NixieBase" is
> the first thing that pops into my mind. Any better suggestions? Does
> GoogleGroups have a poll feature?
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2019, at 7:16 AM, Bill Notfaded  wrote:
>
> Also the database won't be complex or large enough to really require any
> serious normalization.  I'd make the primary key something like the model
> number of the tube and just be done with it.
>
>
> Exactly. Jonathan and I had a private conversation before he started this
> thread. In his words:
>
> ...we would need to implement a phonetic search or look up table. Take
> example "ZM 1020" tube. If you ask 10 people, you would probably get
> "ZM1020, ZM-1020, ZM 1020, ZM10-20, ZM 10 20" as an input which would hide
> some searches.
>
>
> Not to mention allowing lowercase letters for the convenience of those who
> can't touch-type.
>
> There's a free eBay search app called "AuctionSieve" (works on all
> platforms—check it out). You perform an ordinary eBay search and then
> refine the results by double-clicking words in auction headings and adding
> them to a "Catch Word" list or a "Trash Word" list. It's just like refining
> a search on eBay itself but without all the typing and reloading. Lightning
> fast by comparison, almost painless.
>
> This might be the solution. Start with a basic query based on the model
> number and then let the user narrow the results down.
>
> Perhaps there are other, better ways I'm unfamiliar with (I know just
> enough to be dangerous). I'm hoping to learn a great deal more by the time
> "NixieBase" goes live.
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2019, at 6:57 AM, Joe Croft  wrote:
>
> Not to start a flamewar, but mssql server, like oracle, is way over
> powered and has the other side feature of being 90% complient on it's sql
> syntax. The other 10% you get to learn out the Microsoft way.
>
>
> I had to work with that house of cards VisualFoxPro once. MicroSoft
> shafted me. The less said the better...
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> Nately: "...it's better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
> Old Man: "You have it backwards: it is better to live on your feet, than
> to die on your knees."—*Catch-22*
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Mac Doktor]

Before going any further, what shall we call this project? "NixieBase" is the 
first thing that pops into my mind. Any better suggestions? Does GoogleGroups 
have a poll feature?


> On Apr 25, 2019, at 7:16 AM, Bill Notfaded  wrote:
> 
> Also the database won't be complex or large enough to really require any 
> serious normalization.  I'd make the primary key something like the model 
> number of the tube and just be done with it.

Exactly. Jonathan and I had a private conversation before he started this 
thread. In his words:

...we would need to implement a phonetic search or look up table. Take example 
"ZM 1020" tube. If you ask 10 people, you would probably get "ZM1020, ZM-1020, 
ZM 1020, ZM10-20, ZM 10 20" as an input which would hide some searches.

Not to mention allowing lowercase letters for the convenience of those who 
can't touch-type.

There's a free eBay search app called "AuctionSieve" (works on all 
platforms—check it out). You perform an ordinary eBay search and then refine 
the results by double-clicking words in auction headings and adding them to a 
"Catch Word" list or a "Trash Word" list. It's just like refining a search on 
eBay itself but without all the typing and reloading. Lightning fast by 
comparison, almost painless.

This might be the solution. Start with a basic query based on the model number 
and then let the user narrow the results down.

Perhaps there are other, better ways I'm unfamiliar with (I know just enough to 
be dangerous). I'm hoping to learn a great deal more by the time "NixieBase" 
goes live.


> On Apr 25, 2019, at 6:57 AM, Joe Croft  wrote:
> 
> Not to start a flamewar, but mssql server, like oracle, is way over powered 
> and has the other side feature of being 90% complient on it's sql syntax. The 
> other 10% you get to learn out the Microsoft way.

I had to work with that house of cards VisualFoxPro once. MicroSoft shafted me. 
The less said the better...


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

Nately: "...it's better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Old Man: "You have it backwards: it is better to live on your feet, than to die 
on your knees."—Catch-22

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Bill Notfaded]

I pretty much concur with Joe.  Postgres is more open source for
Enterprise.  For a little website MySQL would be fine... You won't need
things postgres has like clustering etc.

Also the database won't be complex or large enough to really require any
serious normalization.  I'd make the primary key something like the model
number of the tube and just be done with it.  The hosting part is more
about choice and price.

Also if you make it a VM, or even a container, it'll be really easy to
change hosting provider later if you want to change... or end up not liking
them.

Bill

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Joe Croft]

Dreamhost is a great place, I have used them for years. They have a lot of 
options for building web sites. As for databases I'll take them in the order od 
Postgresql, Mysql or if I don't need the power of a server (90% case) sqlite 
(www.sqlite3.org). The latter is very easy to use from within perl or python.

In all caes of a database, the issue ifs rarely the data (though if its complex 
you do have to figure out lay it out), but in the entry of the data. Nobody 
thinks about that until it's too late.

Not to start a flamewar, but mssql server, like oracle, is way over powered and 
has the other side feature of being 90% complient on it's sql syntax. The other 
10% you get to learn out the Microsoft way.

-joe


On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 10:51:26 PM CDT Bill Notfaded wrote:
> Don't get me wrong I really wasn't suggesting GoDaddy but it's local here
> and someone people have heard of before.  Lol it always makes me think of
> Danika Patrick.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 8:24 PM Nick  wrote:
> 
> > I have sites hosted on GoDaddy and find them very slow.
> >
> > I also have sites on Digital Ocean (DO) who I find both cheap and
> > extremely fast. I'm moving all my sites across. DO is more "raw" in that
> > you generally don't get cpanel, i.e. just raw Linux plus whatever you want
> > to run on it, but it's very quick even for the lowest virtual server
> > ("droplet") options. GoDaddy is painful by comparison. DO is for techies...
> >
> > If you want cpanel etc. at a good price and very very fast, try
> > SiteGround, who are again far faster than GoDaddy (IMHO).
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > --
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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Bill Notfaded]

Don't get me wrong I really wasn't suggesting GoDaddy but it's local here
and someone people have heard of before.  Lol it always makes me think of
Danika Patrick.

Bill


On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 8:24 PM Nick  wrote:

> I have sites hosted on GoDaddy and find them very slow.
>
> I also have sites on Digital Ocean (DO) who I find both cheap and
> extremely fast. I'm moving all my sites across. DO is more "raw" in that
> you generally don't get cpanel, i.e. just raw Linux plus whatever you want
> to run on it, but it's very quick even for the lowest virtual server
> ("droplet") options. GoDaddy is painful by comparison. DO is for techies...
>
> If you want cpanel etc. at a good price and very very fast, try
> SiteGround, who are again far faster than GoDaddy (IMHO).
>
> Nick
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Nick]

I have sites hosted on GoDaddy and find them very slow.

I also have sites on Digital Ocean (DO) who I find both cheap and extremely 
fast. I'm moving all my sites across. DO is more "raw" in that you generally 
don't get cpanel, i.e. just raw Linux plus whatever you want to run on it, but 
it's very quick even for the lowest virtual server ("droplet") options. GoDaddy 
is painful by comparison. DO is for techies...

If you want cpanel etc. at a good price and very very fast, try SiteGround, who 
are again far faster than GoDaddy (IMHO).

Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Mac Doktor]

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 6:20 PM, Bill Notfaded  wrote:
> 
> SQL is SQL.  The query language is what it is... 

Well, you guys have me buried! I'm looking forward to this project.

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Bill Notfaded]

SQL is SQL.  The query language is what it is... The differences are some
of the interfaces and management tools.  There are advantages to using MS
SQL server if you're used to that.  I use SQL server for lots of stuff too
because many applications use it.  The same is true for Oracle but for the
most part we've tried to move away from Oracle because it's very expensive
but if you're running an Enterprise database a large company depends on...
Sometimes it's worth the expense.  Macs are really Unix now under the
covers...  Ever since Steve jobs came back to Apple many years ago MacOS
has been based on the mach kernel which came from NeXT if anyone remembers
that?  It's basically Unix.  This is around the same time Apple switched
from Motorola to Intel processors.  I would virtualize the whole thing with
either open source stuff or even windows on some hypervisor.  When you get
something from a hosting provider these days it's usually always a virtual
machine or you run your own VM on their hypervisor in the cloud.  They'll
do as much or little for you.  They even have webservers you can setup
without knowing anything about what's going on underneath.  Many people
just use WordPress and start their site like a blog almost then it grows
into more later with options for selling stuff and payment processing with
a cart.  A big company HQ for that kind of thing here in Phoenix area is
GoDaddy.

Bill

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 3:21 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:

>
> > On Apr 24, 2019, at 4:51 PM, Bill Notfaded  wrote:
> >
> > I'm a CIS guy so if I wanted to do on the cheap I would just get it
> hosted somewhere cheap and use the lamp stack.  All open source.
> > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAMP_(software_bundle)
> >
> > The only expense would be the hosting fee to run a small VM.
>
> Interesting. Would it still be possible to access the database with SQL on
> another platform?
>
> I've worked with some non-SQL RDBMSs but I'm a Mac-only guy. Well, I do
> play games in Windows 10...
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Mac Doktor]

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 4:51 PM, Bill Notfaded  wrote:
> 
> I'm a CIS guy so if I wanted to do on the cheap I would just get it hosted 
> somewhere cheap and use the lamp stack.  All open source.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAMP_(software_bundle)
> 
> The only expense would be the hosting fee to run a small VM.

Interesting. Would it still be possible to access the database with SQL on 
another platform?

I've worked with some non-SQL RDBMSs but I'm a Mac-only guy. Well, I do play 
games in Windows 10...


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Mac Doktor]

> On Apr 22, 2019, at 1:27 PM, Nick  wrote:
> 
> Nice idea - it'd be good if it could be done vis Google Groups, like the use 
> of the shared Google Drive for the library section.

One of the main goals of this project should be to create a reference tool for 
the community that won't unexpectedly disappear or become inaccessible one day. 
I've seen that happen too many times. Given the checkered history of group 
hosting, I'm extremely leery of creating archives using the host's built-in 
features and storage unless there is an offline backup of everything. Just in 
case.

I get what you're saying. I don't have a problem with using "free" solutions 
from Google et al, such as hosting it online, as long as the whole thing is 
safely backed up offline in multiple locations.

I may sound paranoid but I've seen too much information (photos, pdfs, videos 
etc.) along with all the effort that went into creating and uploading it vanish 
overnight more than once. In the case of my own document and software archives, 
I store everything on external RAID1 drives. Each of them is in turn backed up 
to two additional external drives, one of which is stored off-site. I also keep 
bootable clones of my Mac and Windows system volumes. In the event of an 
internal drive failure I can run off of an external SSD.

I've been saved by this system more than once.


> Is there a free Google product that'll do what you want?

Given the potential complexity of this type of database some free variant of 
SQL would be a logical choice for authoring it. We have members with the skills 
and motivation to develop it. The finished database would then be accessible to 
all on the Web in some form. If Google or someone else has a free solution then 
we should definitely take a close look at it.


Just my $0.02. Feel free to pile on.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe: attack ships on fire off the 
shoulder of Orion... beams...in the dark in the Tannhauser Gate. All those 
moments will be lost in time...like tears in the rain." — Roy Batty, Blade 
Runner

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[martin martin]

I will help too.   Did you try the site in Canada

https://www.sphere.bc.ca/


They have doc for most tubes also

On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 14:34 Nicholas Stock  wrote:

> Jonathan, if i can help with data entry let me know.
>
> Nick
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 21, 2019, at 14:16, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jens,
> >
> > Nice to hear! I already made a concept on the project, i will upload it
> tommorow. Im also very familiar with large and even complex sql databases
> since this is part of my work.
> >
> > But such a project will only become great if there are people who are
> willing to help, mostly to either provide data or enter data.
> >
> > As terry wrote, the archived list also could be used and converted.
> >
> > --
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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Nicholas Stock]

Jonathan, if i can help with data entry let me know.

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 21, 2019, at 14:16, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jens,
> 
> Nice to hear! I already made a concept on the project, i will upload it 
> tommorow. Im also very familiar with large and even complex sql databases 
> since this is part of my work.
> 
> But such a project will only become great if there are people who are willing 
> to help, mostly to either provide data or enter data. 
> 
> As terry wrote, the archived list also could be used and converted.
> 
> -- 
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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[alex nolan]

Jonathan, 

That's rather exciting. I'd request that the website would be easily backed 
up by any user who wanted to, but downloading an archive or something.

On Sunday, April 21, 2019 at 5:16:28 PM UTC-4, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. 
wrote:
>
> Hi Jens,
>
> Nice to hear! I already made a concept on the project, i will upload it 
> tommorow. Im also very familiar with large and even complex sql databases 
> since this is part of my work.
>
> But such a project will only become great if there are people who are 
> willing to help, mostly to either provide data or enter data. 
>
> As terry wrote, the archived list also could be used and converted.
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

Hi Jens,

Nice to hear! I already made a concept on the project, i will upload it 
tommorow. Im also very familiar with large and even complex sql databases since 
this is part of my work.

But such a project will only become great if there are people who are willing 
to help, mostly to either provide data or enter data. 

As terry wrote, the archived list also could be used and converted.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[jb-electronics]

Dear Terry,

jb-electronics.de will be around for the forseeable future, I can 
promise that :) But I see your point.


Dieter and myself set up a nixie tube database back in 2011 on 
http://nixie-museum.org/ which I still own but it is no longer 
functional. I have extensive knowledge in database programming and 
webdesign, but I presently do not have the time to develop the database.


Maybe enybody can list some features in this thread they would like to 
see? I will make a note of them and hopefully I will have some time for 
this project this summer.


Best wishes
Jens

On 2019-04-21 2:56 p.m., Mac Doktor wrote:


On Apr 21, 2019, at 2:48 PM, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. 
mailto:jfrech...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Nowadays nixie tube names are easily found by google, but there are 
alot of collectors that have many tubes, and other places where only 
a few tubes are listed etc. Sadly there is no "master" list of tubes, 
where you can find all (yet) known types.


This is exactly my problem. I only collect symbolic tubes, not 
numeric. In addition, I'm not interested in simple plus, minus, and/or 
numeral 1 tubes so I'd like to be able to filter them out as well. I 
already have all the former Soviet symbol tubes and I don't know what 
to search for next on eBay.



The database would only provide text data about the tubes - no images 
or datasheets - if a collector owns a particular tube, a link could 
be added to see this tube on the collectors page. This would ensure 
that visitors still would visit the collectors pages instead of 
looking up tube images on the master database. So every collector 
could freely design his own website.


Exactly. Links to existing sites would have to be a main feature.

On a related note, one of my nightmares is that sites like 
http://www.tube-tester.com or www.jb-electronics.de 
 might disappear someday due to 
unforeseen circumstances. It would be terrible to lose all of that 
information and the enormous effort put into compiling it. Alan 
Franzman's site only exists on Archive.org  now:


https://web.archive.org/web/20111222052741/http://mysite.verizon.net/res0fab4/files/nixdat.htm


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"I've seen things you /people/ wouldn't believe: attack ships on fire 
off the shoulder of Orion... beams...in the dark in the Tannhauser 
Gate. All those moments will be lost in time...like tears in 
the rain." — Roy Batty, /Blade Runner/


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Re: [neonixie-l] Tube database?

[Mac Doktor]

> On Apr 21, 2019, at 2:48 PM, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.  
> wrote:
> 
> Nowadays nixie tube names are easily found by google, but there are alot of 
> collectors that have many tubes, and other places where only a few tubes are 
> listed etc. Sadly there is no "master" list of tubes, where you can find all 
> (yet) known types.

This is exactly my problem. I only collect symbolic tubes, not numeric. In 
addition, I'm not interested in simple plus, minus, and/or numeral 1 tubes so 
I'd like to be able to filter them out as well. I already have all the former 
Soviet symbol tubes and I don't know what to search for next on eBay.


> The database would only provide text data about the tubes - no images or 
> datasheets - if a collector owns a particular tube, a link could be added to 
> see this tube on the collectors page. This would ensure that visitors still 
> would visit the collectors pages instead of looking up tube images on the 
> master database. So every collector could freely design his own website.

Exactly. Links to existing sites would have to be a main feature.

On a related note, one of my nightmares is that sites like 
http://www.tube-tester.com or www.jb-electronics.de might disappear someday due 
to unforeseen circumstances. It would be terrible to lose all of that 
information and the enormous effort put into compiling it. Alan Franzman's site 
only exists on Archive.org now:

https://web.archive.org/web/20111222052741/http://mysite.verizon.net/res0fab4/files/nixdat.htm


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe: attack ships on fire off the 
shoulder of Orion... beams...in the dark in the Tannhauser Gate. All those 
moments will be lost in time...like tears in the rain." — Roy Batty, Blade 
Runner

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