[NSP] Margaret and Andy Watchorn November 1st
For those of you who missed Margaret and Andy's excellent Northumbrian music workshops in the summer, we have a reprise at the Chantry in Morpeth on the evening of Monday 1st November. You will get to see and hear two of Northumberland's finest, and we get to play some tunes we know, and learn some we don't. If we're lucky, the learning will be enhanced by Margaret demonstrating the dance steps that go with the tunes, which helps so much to get the shape of the music. In addition you get to hear first hand some tales of characters from the past, as Margaret seems to have been around the local music scene from an incredibly early age. Be early to avoid disappointment! cheers Tim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Help please
Just to muddy the waters, Safari gives just the titles of the clips,but no sliders to play them, Firefox has nice Quicktime sliders which all work perfectly and individually, will stop and start as requested. Running Snow Leopard on an iMac. Great sound though. Hope this helps Tim On 16 Nov 2010, at 22:49, Julia Say wrote: On 16 Nov 2010, John Clifford wrote: I can add that I've had the same result as Rick and Sheila It happens here as well (Firefox on windows in one case, Linux in the other) Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] BBC4 programmes
A couple of items that might be of interest to those of you who can get BBC4. I know that it's not always available outside the UK. Friday 10th 9-10pm Still Folk Dancing after all these years. Sat 11th 7-8pm Come clog dancing. Treasures of English Folk Dance. 8-9pm Folk at the BBC Could be interesting, could be the BBC doing what it does! Tim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: key question
Just when you thought it was all over, it seems it depends upon your point of view, and this may depend on your position in the history. Below an extract from Mr. Thomas Doubleday's letter to the Duke of Northumberland. date a bit difficult due to Google's OCR not coping with Roman dates, but mid-late C19. (1857 apparently) The Northumberland small-pipe is fitted up upon the plan of construction common to all bagpipes that is to say, it consists of a pipe with stops, by means of which the melody is played, and of three longer pipes sounding different musical intervals in such a way as to produce a rude and imperfect accompaniment to the melody. The bag is inflated by means of a small bellows, as the bag of the Irish or union-pipe is inflated. The great peculiarity of the Northumbrian instrument is its comparatively small size and the peculiar mode of fingering or stopping. In the case of other instruments of this kind, that mode of fingering which, in common parlance, is styled open fingering is the mode used. When this mode of stopping is used, more than one finger is lifted at a time, and by a sudden pressure upon the bag, the chanter, as this pipe is called, is made to sound an octave higher, and thus the range of the instrument is extended. Of this extension of range the Northumb! rian pipe does not admit. It is played upon by means of the method called close fingering for which it is calculated. This method of stopping allows only of one finger being lifted at a time ; and does not admit of the upper octave being forced by pinching or pressure upon the bag. Thus, this instrument is limited to a single octave; and this (little as it is) admits of all the airs, to which it is really suited, being executed by it's means ; with the additional improvement that it may be played perfectly in tune, whilst the tones it produces being all staccato and of a clear, ringing, pearly, and brilliant character, give the instrument a power which it's appearance by no means promises, and which is really suipr^ when L diminutive size of its chanter or melody-pipe is considered. In truth, whilst every other description of bag-pipe is defective, wanting in distinctness, and more or less out of tune in the upper octave, the Northumbrian pipe, when played by a master, executes the airs for which it has been intended to perfection, and with a precision even in the most rapid movements very pleasing as well as surprising. Its defect is the narrow limit within which its merits are confined. It is true that, within the last half century, by means of keys, the range of the instrument has been extended; but to me it is exceedingly doubtful whether this added compass has operated felicitously either upon the instrument or the performer. The peculiar genius of the instrument, which is brilliant and rapid staccato playing, is unfitted for airs of which tenderness and delicacy of expression are the principal attributes. In spite of this, however, that love of novelty which besets the majority of musicians and listeners to music, lures the former to attempt upon this instrument movements utterly unsuited to it. Waltzes in slow time, adagios, and sentimental airs, are thus frequently attempted to be played upon an instrument with the peculiarities of which they are at discord ; and the want of taste of the musician is thus too often made the vilification of that which he has merely misused. To essay to! convey by means of a bagpipe of any description, much more by that of the Northumbrian small pipe, the delicacy of expression which a fine player can produce from the violin, the German flute, the hautboy, or even the clarionet, is a monstrosity in music merely; but to this the additional keys of the instrument have too often led. Discuss! Full text available at http://www.archive.org/details/alettertodukeno00doubgoog Choose your favoured format in the View the Book box on the left. Tim On 16 Dec 2010, at 13:53, Richard York wrote: The only fitting response to this seems to me to picture the Charlie Brown cartoons - the image of Charlie with a sort of horizontal but wiggly line for his mouth - know the one I mean? Richard. On 15/12/2010 12:09, Francis Wood wrote: On 15 Dec 2010, at 12:05, Gibbons, John wrote: But Rob illustrates a simple feather duster - the 17 keyed ones are musically far more versatile... Is that a Peacock feather duster? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: key question
Hi John, Interesting that the extract gives you that impression. Having read the whole document I didn't infer that. I tried to isolate the particular part that led me to feel that way, but failed. I think you may need to set aside quarter of an hour and read the whole thing which is in essence a plea to the Duke to use his influence to preserve the Northumbrian culture which he felt to be precious and distinct and endangered, as he (Doubleday) didn't have the clout to do it himself. http://www.archive.org/details/alettertodukeno00doubgoog Tim On 17 Dec 2010, at 19:55, John Dally wrote: Mr. Doubleday takes great pains to prove his sophistication. Even allowing for how the sense of some of the words used have changed since he wrote them, it appears that Doubleday was not enthusiastic about the NSP or NSPipers in general. So, are we to trust his judgement overall? On the one hand we have a tradition with sentimental waltzes and airs, most of which post-date Doubleday, Jack Armstrong's sort of thing. On the other hand, it's difficult to agree with him about delicacy of expression, keys, or sentimental airs after listening to Chris Ormston's recording of The Blackbird on SPIRIT OF THE BORDER CD, to name but one example. I would like to know more about the cultural context of the document. What prompted Doubleday to write this? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: key question
This seems to be a feature of a great many Victorian literary works in my experience. Unfortunately it's a feature which seems to be infectious. Tim On 17 Dec 2010, at 20:33, Francis Wood wrote: On 17 Dec 2010, at 16:44, Tim Rolls wrote: Discuss! One of the most remarkable qualities of this paper is Doubleday's extraordinary talent for using a colossal number of words to say absolutely nothing of any importance. A very narrow bore, in my view. Perhaps I'm being too unkind to him. The paper's an interesting curiosity. I got it a while ago as a print-on-demand thing from Amazon. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads
There may in fact be a market for pipers' discarded threads in India. Weve all seen the thick bands of rotting pink threads that North Indian men wear around their wrists and the fat, lipsticked men with pencil moustaches so beloved of the South Indian screen. (http://www.hindu.com/lr/2008/03/02/stories/2008030250020100.htm) So far no-one has complained on this list of a surplus of fat, lipsticked men, with or without moustaches, pencil or otherwise, but give it time. Tim On 16 Jan 2011, at 23:08, Francis Wood wrote: An arduous piece of research Richard, for which we are all indebted! Clearly this represents a tradition in its debased and probably final stage. The bonds holding the whole thing together are finally disintegrating. It seems quite probable that the decline and fall of the Roman Empire may have had as its root cause the use of the wrong sort of oil. Probably bunged up their lamps something rotten. The title here refers to a linen process perhaps, also known as retting? I suppose most people know of the abc resource 'ABC Convert-A-Matic' where you can see the dots and hear the notes of this or any other tune?: http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html Francis On 16 Jan 2011, at 22:45, Richard York wrote: Arduous research in dusty attics and archives has revealed, Francis, that I regret it's not a strathspey, more a sort of rhythmic unravelling. I couldn't find anything called The Rotting of the Cotton Threads as such, but this obviously fairly corrupt version called The Rotting of the Threads, which is pretty close, I'm sure you'll agree, turned up among the yellowing manuscripts. It will be seen that the rhythms perhaps reflect the progressive degeneration of the instrument... though I feel that the copyist has perhaps put them in reverse order, so that rather than losing a beat each time, the idee fixe actually gains one. Strange, and rather sad, really. It was hard to read the writing, but I think I transcribed it correctly. If anyone has a better written out version I'll be delighted to see it. I copy it below in abc's X:1 T: The Rotting of the Threads C:Trad? M:3/4 Q:120 L:1/8 K:G |:.gA.g.c e/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gB d/2B/2A/2G/2|.EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2|.DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:| M:7/8 |: .gA.gB.c e/2d/2c/2B/2|.gA.gA.B d/2B/2A/2G/2|\ M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 | .DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:4/4 .gA.gA B.ce/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gA B.cd/2B/2A/G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 |. DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:9/8 .gAg .ABc .ee/2c/2B/2A/2|.gAg .ABc .dd/2B/2A/2G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2| .DABc .d/2B/2A/2G/2:| Best wishes, Richard. On 15/01/2011 00:07, Francis Wood wrote: A Strathspey, surely? Francis On 14 Jan 2011, at 23:57, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: Is 'The rotting of the cotton threads' the title of a tune I haven't learned yet? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: whatever
Adrian wrote What sort of instrument is this. First it was holes, fingered, then a Top A key? Then more key's,7. Then more key's,17. Seems it's an evolving instrument. Seems the music is evolving too, we play, with varying degrees of skill, tunes from at least four centuries. If the instrument has 17 keys, what is the limitation on the number of keys that can be played in a piece? Why have the keys? I have always assumed to allow the playing pieces in a wider range of keys. Doesn't strike me as strange, just using the capability of the instrument. puzzled Tim On 22 May 2011, at 02:25, inky-adrian wrote: Hello all, to play so many notes with the thumb? What sort of instrument is this. First it was holes, fingered, then a Top A key? Then more key's,7. Then more key's,17. Whatever! We now have some-one playing 60-odd key's in 78 note's? Correct me if I'm wrong. This is very strange. The correct playing method will die and people, like you Anthony , will make money. I'm not influenced by money. I do promote the correct way of playing the Northumberland Small-pipes, as does Mr Ormston; for free! I hope the Northumberland small-pipes would die, as Tom Breckon's agreed with me, it should. your's Fingerless Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Proper piping group
Hi All, When you register on the northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/, please use a recognisable version of your own name. Problems in the past with aliases have led us to request this transparency. Thanks Tim nps forum admin On 27 May 2011, at 19:35, Julia Say wrote: On 27 May 2011, Francis Wood wrote: this kind of discussion is best held in a dedicated area. Perhaps the best destination for this interesting discussion is a dedicated area of an already existing forum. Peacock's Parlour perhaps? http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/ is working and available. Since it allows separate threads, those with no interest in the subject can avoid it. In order to start a Peacock's Parlour...or any other topic, registration is required. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Proper piping group
No reason why there shouldn't be John. You should be authorised by now, so feel free. cheers Tim On 28 May 2011, at 00:14, John Dally wrote: Would it be possible to have a forum on the pipersfourm dedicated to TOTM? There might only be two of us interested in it, in which case it might as well stay here--no need to make more work for Julia. I hoped that pipers like Inky would participate so that they can show us what they're talking about. One minute of music says more than a thousand words. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Tim Rolls [1]tim.ro...@btconnect.com wrote: Hi All, When you register on the [2]northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/, please use a recognisable version of your own name. Problems in the past with aliases have led us to request this transparency. Thanks Tim nps forum admin On 27 May 2011, at 19:35, Julia Say wrote: On 27 May 2011, Francis Wood wrote: this kind of discussion is best held in a dedicated area. Perhaps the best destination for this interesting discussion is a dedicated area of an already existing forum. Peacock's Parlour perhaps? [3]http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/ is working and available. Since it allows separate threads, those with no interest in the subject can avoid it. In order to start a Peacock's Parlour...or any other topic, registration is required. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:tim.ro...@btconnect.com 2. http://northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/ 3. http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Pipers' discussion forum
As Julia mentioned there is a discussion forum on the NPS website at http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/ Although it's to be found currently on the members' area page, it is open to non members. All we ask is that you sign in using a recognisable version of your name as your user name so we all know who we're talking to. If you want to have a look at the rest of the website it's at http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/ Any problems, please contact me off list. Tim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipers' discussion forum
The members' area password should appear in the next newsletter. The members area doesn't yet contain a lot of items. but we hope it will grow. If anyone has any ideas for items for the site, in or out of the restricted members area, please let us know via webs...@northumbrianpipers.org.uk. cheers Tim On 29 May 2011, at 10:07, Richard York wrote: I haven't seen the www site for a while, so was impressed to note it's looking a lot better: congratulations - it's a lot of hard work! Please could the NPS newsletters, which are in the main presumably seen by members, perhaps have the password printed somewhere in the contacts list, so that forgetful members like me can be reminded of what it is, and access the members' area? If the occasional non-member sees it, it's presumably not a life-and-death security issue? Best wishes, Richard. On 29/05/2011 08:50, Tim Rolls wrote: As Julia mentioned there is a discussion forum on the NPS website at http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/ Although it's to be found currently on the members' area page, it is open to non members. All we ask is that you sign in using a recognisable version of your name as your user name so we all know who we're talking to. If you want to have a look at the rest of the website it's at http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/ Any problems, please contact me off list. Tim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: forums, mailing lists etc
Hi All, When you go to sign up to the NPS forum Mike mentions, can you please do so using your own name, or a recognisable form of it. We've had problems in the past with strange pseudonyms, (including some this week from 1...@bestmoneysavingtips.com based in Latvia, and the like). thanks Tim On 16 Jun 2011, at 16:09, smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk wrote: I must admit that I am at a loss to understand the fuss about styles of playing. I have always been aware that there are almost as many styles as there are influential players. When I listen to good players like Joe Hutton, Anthony, Andy, Kathryn, Alice, Alistair, Adrian etc (why do so many good players have names starting with an A) I am aware of the stylistic differences but not troubled by them. With regard to mailing lists and forums I do have a preference for the forum style of interaction. I have been a member of a number of mailing lists, some musical, some technical, over the years and most of them have now given way to forums as the extra facilities have so many benefits. I would like to think that the NPS forum will become a meeting place for all the diverse NSP interests to the greater good of piping but this will only happen if people with something to offer participate and the NPS continues to welcome all people with an interest in the NSP to join the forum. I for one will be a regular forum visitor and will be happy to discuss any of the technical topics that I have a view on. http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/index.php Regards Mike Nelson To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Billy Pigg
On 17 Jun 2011, at 01:13, cwhill wrote: I've often heard it said that Beethoven wouldn't recognise his own works if he were to hear them played now. Well that's because he was deaf... Tim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Popapoms would be the Australian version then? Tim On 21 Jun 2011, at 14:44, Dave S wrote: Colin, that would be popapoms then, er, hope there are no cheerleaders affronted Dave On 6/21/2011 3:31 PM, cwhill wrote: So popadoms then :) Colin Hill On 21/06/2011 12:18, Gibbons, John wrote: When I was in a choir, a composer of a piece we'd commissioned explained legato, poco staccato and staccato respectively as pah, pom, and pop. For NSP, pah is a no-no, as notes need definite ends. So the spectrum we work between is somewhere between pom and pop. Occasional ventures into staccatissimo, as in Meggy's Foot, need a pip instead. But generally the notes should come out like peas, not lentils. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Sent: 21 June 2011 09:45 To: barr...@nspipes.co.uk Cc: rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead Oops, outlook tells me I've already sent a reply. I wonder what it said... Barry, et al. May I point you to the Dolmetsch dictionary http://www.dolmetsch.com/defss4.htm Thanks, this is very interesting but unfortunately reminds me that dictionaries are not infallible. (I have been working as a professional translator since 1974). And indeed that musicians and lexicographers cannot always agree on the precise meaning of the terminology they use. For example, here: http://www.winterkonzerte.de/fachbegriffe.html I found: spiccato: Deutlich, abgesetzt, mit gestoßenen Noten (Bogentechnik bei Streichinstrumenten). staccato: Gestoßen, kurz, abgehackt. Gegensatz:- legato The terminology here is very vague, and doesn't explain the fundamental difference between staccato and spiccato, i.e. that staccato stays on the string and spiccato bounces. This is further confused by the fact that French-speakers tend to call any bouncing stroke sautillé even though this term more strictly applies to the rapid bouncing of the wood of the bow unassisted, as it were, and is related to tremolo. sautillé works well on fast semiquavers, spiccato can be used on relatively slow notes. It is performed with the upper arm and the bow reaches and leaves the string like an aircraft landing and immediatly taking off again or like a stone skimmed across water. Back to Dolmetsch: it does give staccare (Italian) to detach, to separate each note as the basic meaning. Then things get complicated. For example, I can assure you that détaché means what I described in my previous posting, as also found here: http://www.violinonline.com/bowstrokes.htm Détaché indicates smooth, separate bow strokes should be used for each note (it does not mean detached or disconnected). Notes are of equal value, and are produced with an even, seamless stroke with no variation in pressure. Not because I necessarily trust this source (for example, it makes martelé and staccato sound like the same thing) but having been trained in Luxembourg (where the system and terminology are very much based on the French model) and Liège - and sometimes by French-speaking teachers - this is what I have learnt that the expressions mean. Back to Dolmetsch again: it implies that staccato is the same thing as gestoßen (German), détaché (French), piqué (French). Gestoßen certainly means détaché but piqué doesn't; it means something more like staccatissimo. So I wouldn't rely too much on dictionaries (for example, what is the relevance of the reference to Monteverdi's use of pizzicato in this context?) Personally, staccato is a word I use for musical effects and never for a piping style. I think it merely confuses matters. Quite rightly. But it does have a technical meaning for string players. Sorry if I sound like a know-all, but the above is merely a distillation of what I have gathered over several decades to be the consensus among practising string players as opposed to lexicographers and musicologists and is offered FWIW. Best, Chris (wer übt, hat's nötig) Birch To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Served up by Sir Adrian Boulti ? T On 21 Jun 2011, at 16:58, si...@leveau8.fsnet.co.uk wrote: I assume all this food based music will be played on a crumpet or a cornetto --Original Message-- From: Gibbons, John Sender: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu To: 'Francis Wood' To: Richard York Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead Sent: Jun 21, 2011 4:36 PM Or poppaDOMpompompom POPpadom? -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Francis Wood Sent: 21 June 2011 16:29 To: Richard York Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead P On 21 Jun 2011, at 15:51, Richard York wrote: Then there's the Beethoven version- poppopaDOM Or this, anyone? Poppadom, Poppadom, Poppadom-pom ? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Ahh yes the Northumbrian Minstrelsy
On 29 Jun 2011, at 22:02, Gibbons, John wrote: For the tunes at least, a lot more interesting than NM - though it was important when it came out - is the source material for it, a lot of which is on FARNE. The link for which, and a few other things is on the links page of the NPS website, looks like I have a few more to add. all suggestions welcomed http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/index.php?page=Links Tim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the man with the tin ear
.and would probably sound better if he didn't insist on using a corner of the Gents for recording his videos Tim On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:33, Francis Wood wrote: On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:22, smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk wrote: I agree with francis. Another mangalisation this time using the Uillean pipes as the weapon of choice. http://www.youtube.com/user/disinpass#p/a/u/0/dkK4_tcPaG8 And, guessing from the size of those arms, he's using the UP bag as a workout device! francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rants again
rant. Old Eng. 17th-cent. dance of the jig variety. It originated in Scotland and N. England. Four examples occur in Playford's The Dancing Master (1657 and 1665 revisions). The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music | 1996 Any advance on Playford? Smith's New Rant (What happened to the old one?) A Scots Rant A rendition of The Italian Rant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPL2FXqVc9M Tim On 11 Jul 2011, at 14:06, Gibbons, John wrote: 'Rant', as in 'Morpeth Rant', appeared in Vickers' MS in 1770, predating the Primitive Methodists. But 'Ranters' were another religious sect during the Civil War, so an old name was reapplied to the Primitive Methodists. The use of 'rant' for various dance tunes, in various rhythms, occurs through much of the 18th century, eg The Cameronian's Rant is a reel, The Collier's Rant a song in 6/8. The restricted use of the term to 4/4 tunes like The Morpeth Rant is much more specific, and local to Northumberland. It is perhaps significant that Scots Measures went out of fashion about the time rants came in. Both have 8 bars of 4/4. The main difference between the forms is that in the former, the cadences have a crotchet then two tied (syncopated) crotchets, while rants have a strong 3rd beat, and there is no tie. It would be interesting to know (though we never will) what Morpeth Rant looked like in Vickers before the page got lost. He retained syncopation in similar positions in some hornpipes. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tim Rolls Sent: 11 July 2011 13:46 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Rants again Unencumbered as I am by knowledge, experience or understanding of dance steps, I too have asked this question. I am led to believe that the emphasis should be on the third beat of the bar as this mirrors a larger/more emphatic step in the dance. I had a look at Moody to see if there's any guidance linguistically. No definite help, we have: Rantan, Rantaan. Used in the phrase on the rantan, indulging one's self in disorderly and wild conduct as a form of high spirited enjoyment: a milder form of on the rampaadge(sic), on the spree, e.g. He's gyen on the rantan, i.e. his frolic can be sympathetically excused. Ranter 1. A term applied in contemptuous disparagement to the more zealous members of the Methodist Church - particularly of the Primitive Methodist body - who were given to ardent impromptu prayers, lusty singing of hymns and loud ejaculations of Pious praise during their religious services. Thus: Aa've left the Chorch (Anglican) an' aa've joined the Ranters.Note, the Primitive Methodist Church originated in 1807-1810 and the term Ranter was first used in 1814. 2. By transference, applied to hymns sung in the Primitive Methodist and United Methodist Churches, or in the Salvation Army. These hymns, nowadays sadly out of favour, were characterised by rollicking tunes, half line refrains (sung by alternate parts) and rather crude sentiment; but they were enjoyable to sing and were rendered both lustily and fervently: e.g. Ay, that's a gud aad Rantor that hymn So can anyone fill in the gap between the hymns and the dance? Or any of the rollicking tunes? I'll put this on the NSP forum as a question too. cheers Tim On 11 Jul 2011, at 13:05, Gibbons, John wrote: Why has this rant thread gone so quiet all last week? What makes a tune sound like a rant, rather than a reel or hornpipe? If I take a (4 in a bar) hornpipe without triplets, speed it up a bit, but not as much as a reel, smooth out the dotting a bit, and emphasise the odd beats at the expense of the even ones, will I get a rant? How essential are those 3-crotchet cadences? Are there any essential stylistic features that this attempt at a description misses? John To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: Brazilian Piper
Hi Kevin, The idea is sound, the execution is still a little lacking. Below is the link to the pipemakers we have so far on the NPS website. http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/index.php?page=pipemakers This would be a good opportunity to ask any makers, fettlers, teachers or professional performers if they would like their details listed on the NPS website This service is free to all members of the NPS, otherwise its £15 per annum. Coincidentally, membership is also £15 per annum! We would like to offer on the site a world service, so this includes all those who are overseas from this small island. cheers Tim On 13 Jul 2011, at 00:04, Kevin wrote: Hi to All, A Brazilian piper is asking to buy a set of northumbrian small pipes in D. i said i would find some makers for him. i am no longer in the NS Society so i do not have access to any of the makers addresses, professional / non-professional. so is there any advice i could send him about obtaining a set in D? perhaps someone has a set to sell? or perhaps there is a maker in south america, or USA or somehwere near to brazil than the UK? could a list of UK makers be set via the NSP web site? any advice, many thanks kevin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: August tune of the month: suggestions
Hi Barry, your link needs a uk, try http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/ cheers Tim On 22 Jul 2011, at 17:00, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: I have tried to set up a poll on the NPS forum. Why not try it out? www.northumbrianpipers.org/pipersforum/ e-mail me if you have any problems. Barry Quoting Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com: On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Gibbons, John [1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: My vote would be for the Peacock, and if we use STV, then Herd on the Hill as 2nd preference. Seconded -- References 1. mailto:j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Piping under threat!
Perhaps syncopated jiggery is a virus like the squirrel pox that grays carry but kills reds? Tim This made me wonder what 'Pan-Celtic syncopated jiggery' is, and what the nature of the threat. Sounds more like fun than a threat in the admittedly unlikely event of you asking me g To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1702 - Release Date: 10/1/2008 9:05 AM
[NSP] Re: Piping under threat!
Seems to me that as the pipes have been around for about 500 years in their present form, but much of the repetoire is from the last 200-250 years and is probably a sample of popular tunes of the day that you could argue that the traditional tunes at least of the pipes have already been lost. As to the way of playing, who knows, each player is likely to have learnt at the knee of another, and added his own foibles. The traditional way now, and probably then, is what is in the living memory, although there is a degree of calcification due to recordings of early 20th century players, much as spelling became more fixed with the advent of the printing press. This site has recently shown that there is no certainty as to the meaning of notation, so how can we know how things were played. I'm sure that Chris Ormston, widely regarded as one of the finest players around today, will have a great influence on how the pipes are learnt and played for many years, and because there are recordings of his style, that will now go on into perpetuity, I don't think you need fear Chris, that your style will die out in the near future. Now for my pebble in the pond, As some wise chap said a while back, In my father's house there are many rooms, or words to that effect. I think there should be not just tolerance, but acceptance of a wide range of not only playing styles, but music types as well. If it was OK in the 1850's to play hit songs of the day, then why not now accept tunes from the last 40-50-60 years, which I'm sure most of us will agree has been an incredibly rich and diverse period of music writing. So, preparing to be shot down, how about In the Mood, Moon River ,Popcorn(by Hot butter if my memory serves)I am sailing (Rod Stewart) Money, money,money by ABBA. You can see wher I'm coming from. But before you do shoot, think how much poorer we would be musically if the Sax had only ever been used to play orchestral music, it's original purpose as a crossover between brass and woodwind. Tim RollsOriginal Message - From: Robert Greef [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:22 AM Subject: [NSP] Piping under threat! I saw the post from Chris Ormston: I'm seriously concerned that the traditional way of playing our instrument will be swept away in a wave of Pan-Celtic syncopated jiggery This made me wonder what 'Pan-Celtic syncopated jiggery' is, and what the nature of the threat. Cheers, Robert Greef To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1702 - Release Date: 10/1/2008 9:05 AM
[NSP] Re: Threat replies are in
That's two alludes in consecutive post's. Who moderates this site, we can't have allude posts willy-nilly Tim PS I think Kathryn Tickell is a mighty fine musician and I'd like to be nearly as good on the pipes as she is. Who says she shan't be named and why? Anyone brave enough? - Original Message - From: Matt Seattle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Threat replies are in I suspect there has been some misunderstanding of Chris Ormston's post - The new threat is from another species imported from Ireland and Scotland. This beast has a stout black body with a creamy white head, and has taken root in newcastlegateshead. A pint of Guinness (or similar stout) is the image, symbolising or alluding to . To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1709 - Release Date: 10/5/2008 9:20 AM
[NSP] Tharsei
or as the translation from the greek goes, Be of good cheer John 16:33 et al (wonderful combination, the internet and the bible.) I think Chris is far too pessimistic and lacking in self confidence. I may be well off the mark here, but I'd guess in the first half of the 1900s there were only a few dozen people carrying on the traditions and tunes of NSP. Now there are hundreds. possibly thousands of people playing the pipes all around the world, and a good many of them are aiming for the Gold Standard, so there are quite possibly more people playing, or trying to play, the pipes the traditional way than ever before. Regarding the traditional Northumbrian tunes, it's known that many of these were lifted, or have migrated from Scotland and Ireland, and Keep your feet still Geordie Hinny and the Rowan Tree at least, were known under different names by my father-in-law playing the melodeon in Norfolk over 50 years ago. We should accept this cross fertilization as an invigoration, I've no doubt many Northumbrian tunes are played on Uillean pipes, and the playing of other forms of music on the pipes widens their audience and brings more devotees into the fold,( if that's not a mixed metaphor.) I thoroughly enjoy Chris's playing, but I enjoy trying to play the fiddle too, and back beat and syncopation does it for me. I am not ashamed to say that KT first brought my attention to the pipes, although she was a young lass playing the fiddle when I first saw her. Without her more broadly accessible/commercial/populist (call it what you will) style and repertoire, many people would never have come to the pipes. That may have been a good thing or not, who's to say. Whatever, I don't think traditional playing is threatened, but is becoming available to a wider and wider audience with the advent of the internet. Discuss. Tim - Original Message - From: Matt Seattle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Robert Greef [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: More code? I'll spell it out A pint of Guinness (or similar stout) is the image, symbolising or alluding to . Ireland, and by extension, in the context, Irish music. Chris's post was an amusing (to me and presumably others) comment on the perceived dilution of the Northumbrian piping tradition. It contained references which would be picked up by many on this list, whether or not they agreed with the underlying opinions, but you can't please, or amuse, everybody. Cheers Matt On 10/7/08, Robert Greef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This posting makes my point more emphatically, because even with this extra commentary the passage is still meaningless dribble. Say what you mean! Or is this whole farrago totally content -free? Cheers, Robert - Original Message - From: Matt Seattle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Threat replies are in I suspect there has been some misunderstanding of Chris Ormston's post - The new threat is from another species imported from Ireland and Scotland. This beast has a stout black body with a creamy white head, and has taken root in newcastlegateshead. A pint of Guinness (or similar stout) is the image, symbolising or alluding to . To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1711 - Release Date: 10/6/2008 5:37 PM
[NSP] Re: Heads and Tails
As the tail seems to be wagging, and quite happy about it, maybe we can deduce the beast is canine? That makes you the dog's left b Paul. Maybe somebody at the head can check for a cold damp nose (Off the head of your beer perhaps, bitter not stout of course!) bright eyes (Stimulant of your choice) and pricked ears (listening for choyting?) Tim - Original Message - From: Paul Rhodes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dartmouth NSP nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: [NSP] Heads and Tails Is anybody else out there trying to work out where they are on this amazing beast? I've decided that I'm the left testicle. Paul __ Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone [1]Try it Now! -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354028/direct/01/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1711 - Release Date: 10/6/2008 5:37 PM
[NSP] Re: Over the hill?
I shouldn't worry too much Richard, a brief extract from the summary says males tap faster than females, the dominant hand is faster than the non-dominant hand the slow down is apparantly only about 10-15% for the over 50s compared to the 16-24s, and if you want all the stats. and have trouble sleeping go to http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3848/is_200407/ai_n9439965/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1. Just make sure you play with a group of older females and you should be able to keep your end up! A fellow over 50 Tim - Original Message - From: Richard York [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: [NSP] Over the hill? The BBC radio news Quiz has just referred to a test of men's declining powers, correlated with age. It seems we start to seriously go downhill after 39. (Not much hope for me then.) The test was to see how rapidly they could keep tapping their index fingers over a period of 10 seconds, a vital skill for any man of the world. One wonders how the test would vary if they took a sample of NSpipers? And does it mean that starting to play in my mid-50's I don't stand a chance with repeated notes? Yours in senility, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1743 - Release Date: 10/24/2008 8:33 AM
[NSP] Re: Maa Bonny Lad
well here's one version Sir Richard Runciman Terry, member of a Northumbrian shipping family and a good collector of sailing-ship shanties dredged up this song from childhood memory and gave it to W.G. Whittaker who published it in North Countrie Ballads, Songs and Pipe-Tunes in 1922. In the song, keel means a sea-going boat, not the flat-bottomed coal-barges usually associated with the Tyne. Lyrics Have you seen ought of my bonny lad? Are you sure he's well-o? He's gone o'er long with a stick in his hand, He's gone to row the keel-o. Yes I have seen your bonny lad, 'Twas on the sea I spied him. His grave is green but not wi' grass And you'll never lie beside him. Have you seen ought of my bonny lad? And are you sure he's well-o? He's gone o'er long with a stick in his hand, He's gone to row the keel-o. and this link goes to a version too but you may need sibelius http://www.rossleighmusic.co.uk/MaaBonnyLadSCH.htm good luck Tim - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:55 AM Subject: [NSP] Maa Bonny Lad I urgently need the words of Maa Bonny Lad Can anyone come to my rescue? Please e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanking whomsoever in advance. Sheila __ Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. [2]Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav0001 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008 7:45 AM
[NSP] Re: Music for funeral
And don't play effin' Highland Cathedral either Should that be Highland Cathedral ineff and a ' , Tim - Original Message - From: Paul Gretton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: [NSP] Music for funeral My gut reaction is: play anything appropriate - there are lots of options - but please, please, please don't play Amazing Grace! I don't think one should do anything that might contribute to that awful piece of slop becoming a part of the Northumberland repertoire too. It would be dreadful if it ever became a standard feature of funerals on this side of the Atlantic the way it has in the States. And in the States the problem is not just with funerals: over there, there are only two tunes associated with bagpipes (of any type), namely Amazing Grace and that other one. There was no Amazing Grace at the Cenotaph this morning and I think you may agree that the somber ceremony of commemoration was still pretty effective. And don't play effin' Highland Cathedral either Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.1/1781 - Release Date: 11/11/2008 8:59 AM
[NSP] exmouth.edu (society magazine)
respect! Tim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] olympic games bagpipes
In case anyone's interested, on ebay now, the Highland pipes that were played at the olymic games opening ceremony, allegedly! As some of you may remember, these pipes can only play about 4 different tunes, including, we seem to remember Scotland the Brave, The Rowan Tree, and possibly Highland Cathedral. [1]http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40_trksid=m38_nkw=bagpipes+olympic; _sacat=See-All-Categories -- References 1. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40_trksid=m38_nkw=bagpipes+olympic_sacat=See-All-Categories To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: exmouth.edu (society magazine)
Hi Peter, Page 41 et seq. NPS magazine, Vol 29, 2008. Struck several chords with me. Tim - Original Message - From: Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: tim rolls BT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] exmouth.edu (society magazine) Hi Tim, Have to say, you've stumped me with this comment. I must have missed something somewhere! Peter tim rolls BT wrote: respect! Tim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1833 - Release Date: 12/5/2008 7:08 PM
[NSP] Re: Piper print
Hi Richard, I haven't got my physics head on this morning, but would this be anything to do with the fact that many painters used a sort of camera obscura device to project the model onto a canvas, then did a quick sketch round the projected image, I can never get my head round whether the image just inverts vertically or swaps L-R as well. Tim - Original Message - From: richard.hea...@tiscali.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:37 AM Subject: [NSP] Piper print Hi Honor, I'm no expert, but I think quite a lot of bagpipe iconography depicts the bag under the right arm. I have no idea whether or not that is due to the artist (obviously it is in the case of original paintings) or the printmaker reversing things. You'll see another example in David Allan's painting A Highland Dance at http://www.nationalgalleries.org/collection/online_az/4: 322/result/0/21917?initial=AartistId=4483artistName=David% 20Allansubmit=1 Here is shown two Scottish bagpipers playing for dancing, both having the bag under their right arm. It was painted c.1780. There are also examples in Hugh Cheape's recent book about bagpipes. Richard 50% off Norton Security 2009 - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/security To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.6/1889 - Release Date: 1/12/2009 8:18 PM
[NSP] Re: further JA research
or perhaps Rory Bremner, doing an impression... Tim - Original Message - From: david...@pt.lu To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: [NSP] further JA research Tullochgorum shows up as 'the corn bunting' and 'the blue green hill' as well as 'the dark blue hill ' we are now back to robert Bremner -- Scot Skinner also has it with variations -- still digging Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1895 - Release Date: 1/15/2009 7:46 AM
[NSP] the foremost Northumbrian Pipes player
some of you may have missed this on the BBC website A globally acclaimed folk artist from Northumberland is to be given a prestigious music award. Kathryn Tickell, who plays the Northumbrian pipes and violin, is to be awarded the Queen's Medal for Music. The annual award, approved by the Queen, is presented to musicians judged to have had a major influence on the musical life of the nation. The 41-year-old will be presented with the Medal in a private audience with the Queen later this year. Sir Peter Maxwell Davies, appointed as the Master of The Queen's Music in 2004, said: I am delighted to have the opportunity to present the Queen's Medal to Kathryn Tickell as she is not only the foremost Northumbrian Pipes player, a great composer and a wonderful all-round musician, but for her work in music education. She has put the pipes and the music of her own part of England back among the public where it belongs, and is also spreading a love of this music throughout the whole world. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Monkey hunting
Hi John and all, I like the monkey hunting analogy. If you're hunting monkeys (ies?) by yourself, then hunt them in whatever way catches most monkeys for you. Naturally if you are hunting monkeys with a group of other monkey hunters, you need some agreement as to how you are all going to hunt, otherwise the result will be unsatisfactory (you just scatter the monkeys and they all laugh at you from the treetops) In which case a written set of instructions on how to hunt monkeys would be useful. Having all got copies of the How to hunt Monkeys, the New Guinea way you will of course find that many of the hunters then say, but we dont hunt them thay way and you end up agreeing to amend the instructions, leaving the person who spent time copying ten sets of instructions out muttering darkly in the corner. Tim - Original Message - From: john_da...@hmco.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:26 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes Perhaps, you could make the recordings yourself, Colin. That way the bench would be quite clearly marked. It would seem likely that there could be all sorts of interpretations of a tune, or bad playing technique, if the sound source were another instrument. Last night I played tunes with a friend, an ear player who grew up in Morpeth, was active in the folk scene in Northumberland for many years before moving here. He plays stringed instruments, so the popping pipe sound goes nicely with the slurry string sound. He doesn't play any of the tunes note for note the way they appear in the books, because he picked them up by ear, having heard many from the time he was a lad. If I said, look, you're not playing that tune correctly, it would be like the anthropologist telling the tribesman in New Guinea he's hunting monkey incorrectly. One tune in particular, The Hesleyside Reel, is very difficult for me to play at his tempo without cutting out some of the notes. Was it written for the pipes? It's a lovely tune, but my right hand's ligature doesn't like it very much unless I play it at a rambling pace. Now, I realize, if I had Chris Ormston's technique I could do it properly, but I never will (I'm not alone, am I?). If the choice is mucking up the tune or adapting it to fit my technical abilities, what's a guy to do? John rosspi...@aol.com 03/10/2009 10:40 AM To j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk cc nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes Dear John, When I was saying that I thought the tunes in the 'First 30 Tunes' might be better played on some other instrument than the small pipes to give an idea of how the tune went it was to avoid the copying of pehaps bad playing technique from pipers who had contributed tracks for the CD. I had no experience of using ABC copies of the tunes to generate audio copies but it seems to be a relatively straightforward way of getting the printed tunes out there to be heard. At the moment the NPS is only interested in producing a CD to accompany the '30 tunes' book but as we have most of the other tunes that are in our publications in ABC form it could be applied to all those tunes that beginners have difficulty in lifting off the page. As you say the main problem is in finding someone to do the job. Colin R -Original Message- From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: 'colin' cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:41 Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes An abc pipers' tunebook should ideally - * Not be a copy of a printed source. It might affect its sales. Let alone copyright questions. * So should be mostly traditional unpublished material. * It could contain new tunes too, if submitted by the composer - copyright again. * It should be communally authored - wait for a single author and it will take a long time, and will mirror his taste; be it excellent or otherwise, someone will disagree! It is a view of the tradition that we are after, not just Joe Bloggs' bit of it. * Abc's could be submitted to the nsp mailing list, and someone web-literate could put it online. * So we need a willing able volunteer. * Here the plan falls to the ground. John -Original Message- From: nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[1]mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of colin Sent: 10 March 2009 16:23 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes I'm glad you wrote this. I suggested something similar but my post never appeared
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
Hi Richard, Don't leave us hanging what did he choose to do? Tim - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:10 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes Some years ago I met a man who was responsible for some work on the musicians carvings in Beverley Minster, most famous of course being the pipers. His quandary was whether to simply clean them up as they were, or to restore them to what the Victorians had imposed on them, mistakes and all, or to try to restore them to what he thought the medieval carvers had intended, though that last was now very impossible to do with any certainty, given changes in their condition over time, so he'd be imposing on them. And whatever he did would be right for some people, wrong for others, and whatever he did they'd never be as they once used to be. Or he could simply leave them to fall to bits by themselves. Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: ... There is much room for personal interpretation on top of this basic style difference. Letting people hear these differences is important. As for so-called bad habits these must surely be/have been pleasing to the players themselves at some point and are therefore valid in their own right even if others may find them displeasing. Copying these personal idiosyncracies is one thing, and each player can decide this for themselves, ignoring the regional accent completely is another thing altogether! I would say go for it Colin, a person with your background can not help but make a valuable contribution to the body of piping knowledge. As aye Anthony To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1995 - Release Date: 03/11/09 08:28:00
[NSP] Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Hi Anthony, Obviously I don't have your knowledge and background of Northumbrian music, so I don't have the same depth of feeling for these matters that you do. My purpose in following the threads on this group is to get an understanding of piping as it is, and was, from experienced people like you, and this is an incredibly rich source of knowledge. Because there is such a diverse range of opinions, often based on historical or geographical connections, often deeply held, the picture is rich and colourful. Long may that continue. You are perhaps correct that the direct relevance of masonry to the first 30 tunes is had to see, and maybe a new title was appropriate, but as a thread of thought I felt it was pertinent, and indeed the mason's decision was perhaps food for thought. I don't think there is any wish to gloss over the heritage, just a lack of knowledge, which is why your contribution is so valued. Re many of these pieces were still being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs extremely well. Do you feel, as you have used the past tense, that this is no longer so? Is the (North?) Northumbrian style of playing lost apart from recordings? Has it been subsumed by Tyneside influences? Which current players do you feel best demonstrate that style? Is that style better/truer then other styles currently in evidence? Should any style be preserved in aspic or should we accept evolution, whilst treasuring, and being influenced by styles of the past be they on vinyl or in mp3? Discuss. Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:20 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes Sorry to butt in folks, especially since I'm not sure what the exact context is! As the subject matter is the First 30 tunes the relevance of Victorian / Medieval masonry escapes me. I do get the impression, Richard, that you might be regarding these tunes as treasures from an earlier age. Let me reassure you that many of these pieces were still being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs extremely well. It is the lack of appreciation of this and the fact that they played their reels with a phrasing that was neither march, polka or reel. This pulse fitted the dance step of choice, the Rant, so perfectly that they referred to the tunes themselves as rants. This was far more than a social pastime for the likes of Will Atkinson whose payment from The Tanner Hops made his, Bella's and their 10 bairns lives, much more bearable. It is the glossing over of this unique heritage that drives me to bring it to a wider audience. If you haven't already done so buy Will Atkinson's wonderful CD and you'll see what I mean. Regards Anthony --- On Wed, 11/3/09, Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk wrote: From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009, 8:48 PM In a way, that's the least important part of the story :) It struck me at the time what a parallel it was with our treatment of music which comes to us from before our time, or at least before deadly accurate sound recording, whether it's medieval or anything else. But to answer your question, Tim, if I remember aright, he treated them each variously according to how much was evident from the original form, how much damage the dear Victorians had done, and in what condition and how stable each was. Perhaps that's relevant too. Best wishes, Richard. tim rolls BT wrote: Hi Richard, Don't leave us hanging what did he choose to do? Tim - Original Message - From: Richard York [1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group [2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:10 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes Some years ago I met a man who was responsible for some work on the musicians carvings in Beverley Minster, most famous of course being the pipers. His quandary was whether to simply clean them up as they were, or to restore them to what the Victorians had imposed on them, mistakes and all, or to try to restore them to what he thought the medieval carvers had intended, though that last was now very impossible to do with any certainty, given changes in their condition over time, so he'd be imposing on them. And whatever he did would be right for some people, wrong for others, and whatever he did they'd never be as they once used to be. Or he could simply leave them to fall to bits by themselves. Richard. Anthony Robb
[NSP] Re: Keep on Ranting!
Thanks Chris, Looks fascinating, but as I'm not familiar with abc, I tried pasting it on the site, on the abc converter, but got an error message, tried ticking a few boxes, but no improvement. Anyone more computer savvy who can tell me what I'm doing wrong? Tim - Original Message - From: Chris Ormston ch...@chrisormston.com To: 'NSP List' nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:24 PM Subject: [NSP] Keep on Ranting! Here's a new one - enjoy! X:1 T:Keelman Brown of Newburn C:Chris Ormston M:4/4 K:D de|fdfa d2dc|BGBd A2de|fdfa gfed|f2e2e2 de|fdfad2dc|BGBd A2 AG|FAGB Aage|f2d2d2:|| ef|gBgf eAde|fAfe d2de|fdfa gfed|f2e2e2 ef|gBgf eAde|fAfe d2AG|FAGB Aage|f2d2d2:|| For those who prefer dots, copy and paste the above here: [1]http://www.folkinfo.org/songs/abcconvert.php Chris Ormston chrisormston.com borderdirectors.com -- References 1. http://www.folkinfo.org/songs/abcconvert.php To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00
[NSP] Re: piping style
Rick, No insult intended, must be the way I phrase things. Some of my best friends are extremely good musicians. I didn't mean to imply that those who seek technical perfection don't also enjoy the music. Tim - Original Message - From: Rick Damon rick.da...@dartmouth.edu To: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com Cc: David Baker davidthba...@googlemail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] piping style Tim, I think the suggestion that someone who wants to master the instrument and play well is doing it as a technical exercise instead of enjoying playing music is insulting. I believe that if you're going to play music you first need to get a level of competency on the instrument you play. I certainly agree that there are many styles of playing, and a wide range of musical tastes. --Rick On Apr 14, 2009, at 4:31 AM, tim rolls BT wrote: I too have little experience of piping, but I agree that the area of the correct way to play is a subject of some debate. I am keen to ensure that the NSP community is receptive to the efforts of young pipers, (and older ones, no prejudice here) so as I reckon you have a good thirty years yet of being a young piper you will have plenty of opportunity to develop your style, jazz on the pipes eh? Rick, if you are in the group treating pipes playing as a technical exercise, and trying to achieve a certain traditional technique is your aim, then certainly there is a right answer, and luckily there are pipers who will gladly help you work towards that aim, but if your aim is more philosophical, like trying to enjoy playing the music you can make for your own pleasure, then it would seem there are as many right answers as there are players. In general, the latter group don't try to tell the former not to try and achieve the perfection they are looking for! Each to his own. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.11.57/2059 - Release Date: 04/14/09 14:52:00 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] How the brain reads
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[NSP] How the brain reads
..don't know if there's any relevance to the way we read music, currently I find I have to read each dot when I see a new tune, but this gives me hope that maybe when I've had more practice I'll be able to read whole bars at a time. Don't delete this just because it looks weird. Believe it or not, you can read it. I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? Tim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
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[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
I'll try again Hi Philip, re Can we also drop the (failed?) experiment of the NPS discussion list. Some of us ordinary members really don't care any more about the Society's internal battles. When we set up the NPS discussion list it was explicitly to allow people to wash their dirty linen in private, and to give dartmouth a break. We said so at the time. I would say on the whole it has been a success, although of late there has been a fair amount of soapy water sloshing over here too. If you find, as many do, that the NPS list is not to your taste, then it is easy to unsubscribe, or you can simply block the e-mails from those people whose postings you find offensive. I fear if we closed down the NPS list, dartmouth would again become the only outlet for people to air their views and I'm sure none of us would want that. Meanwhile, can I put in a plea to people to keep the NPS stuff over there, and leave over here for NSP matters, try not to post to both lists simultaneously as it gets confusing for recipients of both lists. Thanks Tim. - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Well said colin (Hill, of course) I have been reading this list (both lists) over the past month with a growing sense of detatchment and loss of interest. I wonder if I can really be bothered to open any new message, and very likely read yet more griping and point-scoring, or whether just to hit the delete button, and send NPS and NSP alike to join all the other spam. We have had the endless what is proper piping? debate yet again (have the Taliban got an internet discussion list about true Islam, I wonder? If so it must be very similar), continuing point-scoring about the presidency, about the society rules or lack of them, pipe-makers and pipe-making books and what the society has/hasn't/should/shouldn't have done about them, and now this latest extraordinary outburst. The suggested distinction between NPS discussion and NSP (Dartmouth) list isn't really being observed, often because the subject matter applies to both. Personally, I don't bother to look closely at the acronym to see what list a posting is meant for, I still read them all - and I'm sure most of us who have subscribed to both do the same. I used to follow the discussions with interest, and often contribute to them, but the level of debate recently (with a few honourable exceptions) has sunk so low I'm tempted to unsubscribe from both lists. Letting my Society subsciption lapse sometimes seems like a good idea too. Please can we have a Summer recess, or a moratorium or something, and all come back refreshed and nicer people, ready to discuss piping and its music tolerantly and positively? Can we also drop the (failed?) experiment of the NPS discussion list. Some of us ordinary members really don't care any more about the Society's internal battles. Just fight it out among yourselves and let us know the result by old-fashioned snail-mail newsletter when all the blood has been cleaned up. Philip - Original Message - From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:38 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available I'm, glad someone else aid it first. I wasn't aware that this particular list was only for NPS events and news. I thought it was a general list for anyone interested in any aspect of the pipes. So, if a course is being run and ISN'T held by the NPS we can't read it/post it etc? This puerile twaddle has got to stop before we all leave the list and, the way it's going, the Society too. Please put personal feeling aside and talk pipes and piping. If non-society events can't be discussed, what's the point of us non-Northeasteners bothering to belong to the list. I certainly can't get to Newcastle for an event (too far, too expensive, too ill to travel that distance). OK, if them's the rules How about starting a NEW list where we can discuss ANYTHING to do with piping then? I would agree, however, that this topic would not be permitted in the discussion list (which is for members only). I fail to see how a general, public list (not linked to the NPS as such) can disallow private courses, tutoring, pipe sales etc. I know that certain society members consider themselves a bit of a clique. Most of us don't. We love the pipes (whether we play or not) and enjoy talking about them. I would be most interested to read about, say, KT doing a concert here. Apoplectic fits from many members I suppose. Very sad. This list used to be very open (and I've been here for a long time as well) and honest. Now it's a point-scoring forum. I no longer look forward to reading the mails as I know what's coming. Sorry but I'm really getting
[NSP] Re: Tune title spelling
Of course, even if we get the name spelt/spelled correctly, we're still left with the discussion about how the actual tune goes. Tim - Original Message - From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk To: Nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:35 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Tune title spelling Good point but I do understand what Barry is saying. I well remember sending a friend an email in Elvish for a bit of fun (Lord of the Rings style) which resulted in total gibberish as they didn't have the font installed to display it! In fact, the pound sign (which was fine in the Barry's original message) showed up as a capital L in your reply. :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: Nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Barry Say barr...@nspipes.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:05 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Tune title spelling Surely worth a go if it means more chance of the name being right in the publication? A --- On Wed, 19/8/09, Barry Say barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: From: Barry Say barr...@nspipes.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Tune title spelling To: Nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 19 August, 2009, 10:25 AM Hi All Personally I wouldn't bother trying to put exotic characters in e-mail. They only work if the recipient is using the same system to read the messages as the sender is using to compose them. Look at the trouble we with get with -L- signs. Barry On 19 Aug 2009 at 10:02, The Red Goblin wrote: I have not found a way to access them for e-mail.? Tip: In WinXP (MacOS/Linux may have a similar applet) I simply copy paste exotic characters from the Character Map* accessory. Steve Collins * Buried in Start Programs Accessories System Tools (points to %SystemRoot%\System32\charmap.exe if missing) but I keep a shortcut handy on my Office Toolbar To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.61/2312 - Release Date: 08/18/09 18:05:00
[NSP] Re: curious pipes on ebay
Is there no end to Colin's talents :-) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ross-Electronic-Bagpipes_ These are in Ontario, Canada Tim - Original Message - From: Dally, John john.da...@hmhpub.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: [NSP] curious Burleigh pipes on ebay There is a curious set of Burleigh pipes on ebay. It's not so curious to see Burleigh pipes on ebay, but it's very curious to see a set of Burleigh pipes anywhere that have been fettled by Colin Ross. Or, at least, that's the impression I've gotten watching the scene from afar. I'd gotten the impression that Colin wouldn't go near a set of Burleigh pipes. Of course, if Colin did fettle these pipes they would be more valuable than if he hadn't. Anyone know anything about them? They're in Fife. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00
[NSP] Scottish Music project
No not piping, but for those of you interested in what music can do, this link was sent to me. [1]http://bbc.co.uk/i/n9mlt/ It's available until 9:54pm Monday 19th October 2009 BST to watch or download. Its a 40 minute TV programme, Tim -- References 1. http://bbc.co.uk/i/n9mlt/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Barrington Hornpipe
Hi Francis, I expect you know this already, but for what it's worth BARRINGTON HORNPIPE. English, Hornpipe. England, Northumberland. G Major. Standard tuning. AABB. From A Tutor for the Northumbrian Small-pipes by J.W. Fenwick, published in the late 1800's; composed by Thomas Todd. Raven (English Country Dance Tunes), 1984; pg. 98 from http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/BARN_BB.htm Also, no info, but a second generation recording of George Atkinson playing it, amongst others http://sounds.bl.uk/View.aspx?item=025M-C1009X0004XX-2600V0.xml# Tim - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:27 PM Subject: [NSP] Barrington Hornpipe A query about the Barrington Hornpipe, appearing in Northumbrian Pipers's Tune Book (1). Can anyone provide any information about the background to this tune? I've heard it was composed as a competition piece, requiring all on a 7 key chanter. Are there sources for this information? Does Todd's manuscript copy survive? And are there significant variants on this as it is played today? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.39/2470 - Release Date: 10/30/09 15:18:00
[NSP] Re: Radio Mics and channel 69
Perhaps this link will help answer a few of the questions implied below. The consultation period may be over, but it was unlikely to have made any difference anyway, may be more joy if 100,000 people contacted their MPs. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/pmse_funding/summary/ Tim - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:17 PM Subject: [NSP] Radio Mics and channel 69 Not instantly an obvious smallpipes issue, I realise, but enough pipers here are in bands or other organisations using radio mics to make this worth passing on, I hope. Monday's Radio 4 PM programme reported that the Gov't, in their Ofcom hat, are selling off the radio frequencies used in the UK by all radio mics, including loop systems, known as channel 69. They're going to re-assign different frequencies for this use, but existing equipment won't work on them, so will need replacing. To be really helpful they aren't telling which frequencies they'll be making available instead, or when they'll be doing it. They are apparently generously offering to pay for the equipment thus rendered useless, but only the value of the stuff at the time, not its replacement value. .. anyone want to guess the market value of a dead radio mic? I know the mics aren't re-tunable, I don't know about the receivers - we haven't got one yet. There's an article I found earlier today online at [1]web.http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/17/ofcom-channel-69-rad io-frequencies So bands, churches, concert halls, theatres, amateur dramatic groups, schools, and anyone else using this equipment is going to be out of pocket, and inconvenienced too. Please complain! Best wishes, Richard. -- References 1. web.http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/17/ofcom-channel-69-radio-frequencies To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 07:50:00
[NSP] Re: NSP
Hi All, Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Before that back to a point where Newcastle was a county in it's own right (someone fill in the dates here )it's Northumberland all the way. Perhaps to avoid contention we should adopt a new designation, as Scottish is to Scotland, and English is to England (Angleland) what about Northumberlish? Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: j...@millgreens.f2s.com; gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Thin ice here,I think, John. Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was created and whether the addition of keys improved this sound, there are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is now Tyne Wear, and Durham. The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used appellations Scottish or Irish to denote otherwise. When geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, Northumberland was used. This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than Northumbrian as it means that the very place where the piping developments you mention is excluded from the named location. Perhaps some would like us now to refer to Northumberland pipes for the older version and Tyne Wear pipes for the modern version? As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 5/1/10, gibbonssoi...@aol.com gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: gibbonssoi...@aol.com gibbonssoi...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: j...@millgreens.f2s.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 23:03 The pipes and the kingdom belong to different eras - the Northumbrian pipes reached something like their modern form in a similar time and place to the steam locomotive. But they were called 'Northumberland pipes' then, as were their simpler 'unimproved' pre-Peacock version. 'Northumbrian' is now used, confusingly, to refer to any of -the Anglo-Saxon kingdom -the modern county -the modern NE region, from the Tees to the border, never ever specifying which is meant. It is apparently a gross error to do so, though I never understood why John -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
I guess we may have to consider allowing Durham, CHAPELRY OF WHITWORTH. The Chapelry of Whitworth is bounded by the Wear, dividing it from Brancepath on the North; by Tudhoe, in the Parish of Brancepath, on the East; by Merrington on the South-east and South; and by St. Andrew's Auckland on the South-west and West. John Robinson, of Coundon, found drowned the 23d day of August 1637. He was a piper. From: 'Chapelry of Whitworth', The History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham: volume 3: Stockton and Darlington wards (1823), pp. 291-302. URL: [1]http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=76361amp;strque ry=northumberland piper Date accessed: 06 January 2010. Tim - Original Message - From: [2]Anthony Robb To: [3]...@millgreens.f2s.com ; [4]gibbonssoi...@aol.com ; [5]tim rolls BT Cc: [6]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NSP Hello Tim Guess you're thinking about developments such as concert G chanters and high C keys. It would be accurate but silly as we both know. Clearly the pipes have growing international interest but newcomers Googling Northumberland (pipes) would get a very half-baked picture of the instrument and its history. Even if Northumberland had gained widespread acceptance during the appropriate period a good case could now be made for Northumbrian. Surely we should stick with the accepted and now geographically accurate Northumbrian. It is, after all, what most of us call them. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 6/1/10, tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com wrote: From: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: j...@millgreens.f2s.com, gibbonssoi...@aol.com, Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 12:09 Hi All, Surely the Tyne and Weary pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Before that back to a point where Newcastle was a county in it's own right (someone fill in the dates here )it's Northumberland all the way. Perhaps to avoid contention we should adopt a new designation, as Scottish is to Scotland, and English is to England (Angleland) what about Northumberlish? Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb [7]anth...@robbpipes.com To: [8]...@millgreens.f2s.com; [9]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: [10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Thin ice here,I think, John. Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was created and whether the addition of keys improved this sound, there are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is now Tyne Wear, and Durham. The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used appellations Scottish or Irish to denote otherwise. When geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, Northumberland was used. This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than Northumbrian as it means that the very place where the piping developments you mention is excluded from the named location. Perhaps some would like us now to refer to Northumberland pipes for the older version and Tyne Wear pipes for the modern version? As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 5/1/10, [11]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [12]gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: [13]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [14]gibbonssoi...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [15]...@millgreens.f2s.com Cc: [16]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 23:03 The pipes and the kingdom belong to different eras - the Northumbrian pipes reached something like their modern form in a similar time and place to the steam locomotive. But they were called 'Northumberland pipes' then, as were their simpler 'unimproved' pre-Peacock version. 'Northumbrian' is now used, confusingly, to refer to any of -the Anglo-Saxon kingdom -the modern county -the modern NE region, from the Tees to the border, never ever specifying which is meant. It is apparently a gross error to do so, though I never understood why John -- To get on or off this list see list
[NSP] Re: NSP
Sorry Matt and all, Hadn't thought to look off the bottom of the page, just hit the reply all button. Will try to do better. Tim Etiquette Only couple of gross offenders, but please don't include EVERY message in a thread when you reply to it, just the relevant bits Happy New Year To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
I'd guess it's been around since Tudor times, there is the urban myth that Henry VIII wrote Greensleeves.. Tim - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Cc: julia@nspipes.co.uk; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads On 13 Jan 2010, at 11:01, Richard York wrote: Julia, I love this word snotomer but confess I haven't met it before, You haven't played the nose-flute, then? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
.and isn't the language fascinating in its own right. To blether on in my experience is to talk at length/nonsense, such as you might expect from a wind-bag I'd presumed it came from the same root as bladder, but Chambers just goes back to Old Norse blathra - talk foolishly, which is where I come in Oxter is also given as a verb, to take under the arm. I had only heard the noun usage before. Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: cal...@aol.com; Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com Cc: Nsplist NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:46 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: bag shape What a fascinating thread! The problem I see with an inverted bag is getting the chanter stock airtight in what amounts to a ridgy hole. It's bad enough with a nice soft bag with the seam on the outside and the usual leather wedges. I hate to admit it but the slightly deeper, shorter Northumbrian style bag is far less comfortable the GHB style. The narrower profile and sloped front of the latter makes hardly any left arm contact with seam (which is what used to cause me discomfort). Barry's comment that the majority of his forearm is not in bag contact at all makes me puzzled. I suppose if the bag neck was long enough the forearm could be well below the bag and not in contact but adopting such a position would surely make the wrists bend in two planes at once. Is this not tiring after a while? Barry's other comment about getting the bag well up towards the armpit is good advice but not a new idea. There is even a dialect saying for this process, oxter yor blether (oxter being armpit and blether being bag)! All perhaps another example of Bill Hedworth's gem , Each has to find their own salvation with this instrument! --- On Wed, 27/1/10, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com Hello Alex and all, You seem to suggest that turning the bag inside out is unlikely. I have two reasons for disagreeing, firstly because I have done so myself and secondly because I have seen many early bags constructed in this way. You will find that this was the usual method if you look at the available iconography or examine old examples. There has to be a good reason why this was adopted for many different kinds of pipes in different centuries and different countries. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] blowpipe
I think bellows blowpipe length is an are well worth looking at. In three years playing I haven't actually owned a set of pipes (although I am now close to a purchase) but have relied on the kindness of others who have lent me sets. Because they were borrowed I felt unable to adjust the pipes to suit my shape. As a result I have played regularly on five different sets, and on three of these I have had problems with the blow pipe separating, sometimes at the designed point, sometimes at another joint. I put this down to having learned a particular comfortable position with my first set, and then failing to adjust to each new set. When I did make such changes to the position of the bag as were necessary for me to play without loss of bellows, I found the new position quite awkward, and as has been said, more effort to play as I could no longer just use the weight of my arm. Unfortunately I didn't take measurements of any of the sets. Although I have observed the necessary shape for a gentleman piper, and I am working towards it, I would still not yet say that I require a massively long blowpipe. What work has been done on blowpipe length, is it purely maker's preference? How many makers measure up a customer before making the pipes? Tim - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:19 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: bag shape Thanks greatly to one and all for these - great food for thought here. I'm interested that everyone's addressed the matter of how to make the existing bag shape comfortable, but no-one has offered experience of the tear-drop shape - are they very rare, or just deeply heretical? Meanwhile I shall try every position from armpit downwards for my existing bag, and seriously examine the matter of neck length. Its neck, not mine. (Thanks too, Mike S, for the off-list advice on position photo's - I'll try that.) I imagine, Barry, that bellows blowpipe length also came into your shifts of bag position? Interesting too the matter of which way the seam goes. I was convinced at first that it was the seam which was getting to me, but now think it's the bulge of the square bag shape - as suggested earlier in this string. Thanks Francis too for pointing up the pics on my own website... in fairness in have to say that while the Jon Swayne huge Flemish set and renaissance-type smaller set (both all brown) are comfortable, Jon does make the seam the modern way round. In the case of the massive Flemish set I've had to mend the protective strip on the outside of the seam more than once, as it's stuck rather than stitched in place. The Jim Parr medieval gaita-type ones (black bag, light boxwood) and the little hummelschen both have the seams on the inside and are very comfortable indeed. I've never had problems with the seasoning in them. Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Key Matters. Not pipes, but of musical interest
I'm not sure how many people outside the UK will be able to access this, as it''s a BBC thing and I know there can be problems, but there's an interesting series of 1/4 hr programmes on the radio this week called Key Matters. As links are a problem too I'll type it, go to bbc.co.uk/programmes/b009yzy3. Or just look for Key Matters on the Radio 4 section. Tim -- References Visible links Hidden links: 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b009yzy3 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: kipper box
I'm confused, how did we get to knickers from kippers? No, on second thoughts don't answer that. What I'd like to know is, what is the correspondence about, the lowering of the tension in the elastic of the knickers, or the tension in the elastic of the lowered knickers? Tim - Original Message - From: Julia Say julia@nspipes.co.uk To: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com; Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com Cc: marga...@watchorn7.plus.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: kipper box On 9 Feb 2010, Francis Wood wrote: I'm following this correspondance about baroque violinists and their lowered knicker elastic tension with some puzzlement. Maybe further resarch is needed. Would someone care to admit to a close enough acquaintance with a female baroque violinist to safely enquire about her knicker elastic? Over to you, gentlemen. Facetiously, Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
This is interesting to me as I have an unreconstructed baroque violin from about 1820 which is currently strung with Larsen strings and playing in G, wheras we also have a c.1900 czech violin strung with I know not what which is tuned down to F'n'abit for playing with nsp. Seems it might be better to have them the other way round. Am I right in thinking that before 1920ish and the current standardised concert pitch at G that many instruments' G was lower anyway, which would have led to lower tension anyway. Also is pitch purely dependent on tension, does the same tension in gut and metal and composite automatically produce the same pitch? and if not, were non gut strings made to emulate the pitch/tension combination of gut strings so as not to upset the structural tensions of a strung fiddle? Trouble is, if I tune down the baroque, which i prefer to play, I'll play the pipes less. Please don't let that affect the response of anyone who has heard me play, fiddle or pipes! Tim - Original Message - From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu To: phi...@gruar.clara.net; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments Stringing of baroque violins is another can of worms since tension varied widely according to local conventions and personal preferences. There is also the question of equal tension versus progressive tension and whether wound strings should be used for the G and/or D. It is, or at least used to be, widely believed that baroque string tension was lower than modern. As Philip points out, this is not true - even though playing was generally less high-tension than modern violin playing. A good starting point for anyone interested is here: http://www.nrinstruments.demon.co.uk/hstvnst.html (I have no vested interests). It is interesting that modern baroque is an approximation of common 19th century practise. I have personally found that very slightly progressive tension using rows CDEF (all gut) for the ascending strings of a violin at A = 415 gives good results (strictly equal tension gives a very thick G string and a very thin E, which may be historically correct (cf. Leopold Mozart's treatise), but feels uncomfortable to my modern fingers). Some argue that equal tension really means equal feel anyway. DEFG would give similar results a semitone lower. I have also tried tuning a modern violin fitted with Dominant Heavy strings down to concert F and the results were good. I think the heavy versions of a lot of strings on the market today could give satisfactory tensions at lower pitch (especially the steel one, if you like that sort of thing). c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Gruar Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 1:37 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments Margaret's comment: When I'm playing duets with Andy's nsp, I always tune down. For me, I've spent a long time trying to find the right fiddle and strings so it doesn't sound like a kipper-box (or I hope it doesn't) when tuned lower. made me think, what about baroque violinists? Specialist baroque orchestras and soloists play at A=415 or a semitone lower than modern standard pitch and very occasionally even lower. This is getting on for low enough to play with standard-pitch Northumbrian pipes. Proper baroque violins have the neck set at a flatter angle than ordinary modern violins/fiddles (neck angle was increased in the 19th cent. among other things to enable higher string tension - louder tone). 18th century classical technique had a lot more in common with the playing styles of traditional music than modern classical technique does e.g. bow-hold, sometimes playing with fiddle held lower, using first position and open strings more etc. - and generally it was less high-tension than modern violin playing. This doesn't mean it lacks life, and good baroque violinists certainly don't sound as if they're playing on a kipper-box strung with knicker elastic. Would using specialist baroque-violin gut strings on a standard fiddle make for better results at the lower pitch? Just some thoughts from a non-string player, so excuse any ignorance shown! Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: kipper box
struggling to find a kipper box, but plenty of cigar boxes here http://www.cigarboxnation.com/page/free-plans Tim - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dru Brooke-Taylor d...@brooke-taylor.freeserve.co.uk Cc: nsp nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 2:16 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: kipper box On 10 Feb 2010, at 13:26, Dru Brooke-Taylor wrote: I've a clear mental image of seeing somewhere, a photograph of an old street musician playing what looked very like a strung kipper box. He was holding it like a fiddle. Hello Dru and others, This does sound extremely likely. People have always improvised string instruments using boxes that were immediately available. Even Fritz Kreisler is said to have begun on a cigar box fiddle. Though I wonder why a well-to-do cigar smoking Viennese family didn't just give him a real fiddle. I recently did some workshops in French primary schools, making instant instruments. One of these was a harp-like thing for which I requested substantial numbers of expanded-polystyrene boxes. I was sure these would be difficult to procure, and certainly didn't realise that the nearest town, La Rochelle, is a major fishing port. Perfect boxes were obtained in generous quantities, none of them smelling fishy, because they were all new. Whether or not there is a recollection or photo of a kipper box fiddle, it's a good bet that a few people will have tried this in the past, and may even have been pretty fair performers. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Fame
Money saving tip. Rather than spending hundreds, or even thousands, on a personalised number plate for your car, simply change your name by deed poll to the registration you already have. N713PNL - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:12 PM Subject: [NSP] Fame Fame . . . . An article by Tina Clough. Wonder if she's a relation . . . . http://www.thelegaldeedpollservice.org.uk/page53.htm Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Smallpipes Simulator
It seems then that this Simulator is very much of the moment, since all the planes can do at the moment is taxi, (due to the antics of what the Mirror has called the VILE-CANO, hyphenated in case their readers didn't get it!) Maybe we could go for the more snappy title of Smallpipes Chanteranddronessimulator Tim - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:56 AM Subject: [NSP] Smallpipes Simulator Hellos apiece This is an intriguing idea but I can't help wondering whether simulator might be too strong a claim? In 35 years of piping tuition, not only in the UK but also Germany, NZ and USA, I've clocked up over 5000 tutee-hrs of experience and the first (also main and universal) stumbling block with our instrument is keeping the bag well-filled and maintaining a steady pressure. A smallpipes simulator that does not have this as part of its make up is a bit like having a flight simulator that only does the taxiing bit. There may be plans to provide under-arm pressure sensitive pads to simulate this main difficulty but until they are available perhaps a more accurate description would be in order? Cheers Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Influence of the Cloughs on Northumbrian Piping
For those of you with an interest in the history and development of nsp playing, next Monday, the 10th of May, Chris Ormston, the leading exponent of the Clough style, will be appearing at the Chantry in Morpeth, Northumberland, for one night only, don't miss it. Chris will be telling us about the legacy of the Clough family of Newsham, playing some music to demonstrate their style, and you will all get a chance to play some tunes too. cheers Tim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
